0:00Hey, welcome everybody. You know, this is a special edition here. Usually I get a chance to be on with Chris Harris on
0:05his show, which is just an awesome show and he's always been so generous with, you know, with his time and having me on
0:12and and it's been fun to be able to every once in a while we get a chance to catch up with Chris here and Chris has a
0:19has a book that we're going to be talking about that has come out that's been published and it's I've been reading it for about the past four or
0:26five weeks. Things slowed down a little bit for me cuz >> Nice.
0:30>> Chris understands. We know we know what goes on in August. Um, but I've been really enjoying we're going to talk about that and then we're going to
0:37talk about the season coming up for 2026, but uh welcome Chris. It's always a pleasure, man.
0:43>> Uh it's my pleasure. Thank you for having me and uh it's, you know, we're we are simpatico. That's all I know
0:51about you and me is that we've been friends for a long time and we get along and I mean, frankly, you're the best in
0:57the business at what you do and uh the fact that I get to leech off of your knowledge both in my own drafting life,
1:04my own personal fantasy life and then also on my show is my honor, believe me.
1:09>> Well, I'll tell you I mean, it's a mutual admiration society because I I the the most um fervent fans that that say, "Yeah, I
1:19heard about you from it's from your show." I mean, the Yacht Awesome's are just like they love you.
1:26>> [laughter] >> They absolutely love you and they and so like they're when they write me, they're so excited and they're like and usually
1:34what I hear is, you know, you know, you have your own podcast and we have our own podcast and stuff like that, but I
1:39laugh but what it shows me is how much they love your show because they're always like, "When you coming back on
1:44Chris's show?"
1:45>> [laughter] >> I am making my own show.
1:49>> They're like, you [laughter] know, they're like, you know, like, "Yeah, whatever, but when you coming back on Chris's show?" It's like I laugh how
1:55that goes. But, you know, it's been fun to It's been fun to learn about that you're, you know, that you're also a
2:01novelist and that you've published What is it? Four or five books now at this point?
2:07>> This is five.
2:08>> five, yeah.
2:09>> Yeah. So, so what we're looking at here is Pound Foolish.
2:13>> Yeah.
2:13>> And so, you know, this is Yeah, exactly.
2:16So, um you know, it's it's kind of a a noir, it's a it's a mystery. You have It's done set with football, so it's it's fun
2:28in the sense that you you start reading about football with this, but it's done like in the beginning with a series of vignettes
2:35where you're kind of seeing the landscape of where the the plot unfolds.
2:42And it's and it's a lot of fun to At first, you read it that way and it gives you this sense from like the top down or
2:49from really every different places, but you see, you know, there's the commissioner, there's the you know, there's there's kind of like your your
2:58retired player who everybody only asks them about what you would expect, you know, and you kind of see that point of
3:05view, but then you see points of view of people who are on the kind of the periphery of football. And it just gives
3:11you a landscape of what this environment is about. And the writing is is so good.
3:17It's one of those things where Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you One of my favorite parts of it and I'm going to
3:23let you talk cuz I'm running my mouth with it, but it's One of my favorite parts was you're trying to basically they're
3:31trying to solve a series of murders of women and it's a they think is a serial killer possibly lurking on a team in
3:39Detroit. And they call in the the the brass for the team and and the security for the team calls in a former player who is a popular kind
3:49of underdog kind of kind of player, The type of fan favorite that you you know, like a Julian Edelman type, you know,
3:57but maybe not quite as good as Julian Edelman. I don't know, you know. But that was kind of the impression I got,
4:04you know, maybe not, but like that and he's and he's called to basically kind of observe what's going on and investigate
4:14some, but it's really kind of observing.
4:16He knows he's he's smart enough to know that there's more going on here about why they called him and all of that. So
4:23it's fun, but there's a scene where there's some scenes where like um somebody talks about being a murderer.
4:30And you think it's actually one thing and it turns out to be completely different and kind of and heartbreaking and touching you know, in just a
4:41vignette. And it kind of reminds me of like um Oh, what's his name?
4:48Mosley, the the the >> Oh, Walter Mosley.
4:51>> Walter Mosley. That you know, I've I've read a series of like shorts with his and I think of like Socrates Fortlow,
4:58the the one of the characters that he had. And it and it kind of reminded me a little bit of some of that in terms of like you
5:07you get these series of vignettes that give you a kind of an overall picture of of a theme that he's writing about. But
5:14that's that's what I loved about it. But what I want to know is I mean you know, when you are looking you know, you look
5:23at football like this and it's like it's easy for me to read some of this and go and part of me wanted to go and I'm
5:29going to sound like I'm like hating on you and I'm not. But like I I part of me listen to it and I go
5:36God, he's tired of watching football. He does >> [laughter] >> He does not like he does not like football right now. But then I read more
5:44of it and I go, no, actually it's just a nice it's just a nice well-rounded point of view cuz like I read it and part of me
5:51was like I'm sick of football right now and we haven't started and then I I look at it and I go, yeah, but there's a lot
5:58to It's a complex world and there's a lot about football like the business when people ask me, you must love football and I go, I love the game but I
6:05hate the business and you see a lot of that with this.
6:09>> I mean that might be the perfect tagline. I should have asked you beforehand. I love the game but I hate
6:14the business. So that might That is like I'm going to put that in the second edition. I'm going to put like a pull
6:20quote from Matt Waldman saying that that's brilliant.
6:23Cuz that's where it was coming from honestly. The idea behind it um you know, it's hard Ideas like build on themselves and you can never quite
6:33remember why you connected X to Y or whatever but By the way, being compared to Walter Mosley that is a high
6:39compliment so thank you for that.
6:41He's awesome. So uh the first thing I did, I didn't know I was writing this a new novel that was football again cuz I have another
6:51football novel that's was my first novel and I was a lot younger and it was more simple, more first novel typical
6:57first novel. And so I didn't know I was going to go back and write it. It was the 2023 season and it was when that
7:04Commander stuff was coming out.
7:06Uh the Dan Snyder stuff with the cheerleaders getting their pictures taken when they were dressing and getting harassed and Gruden emails and
7:17the racism and like treating the fans bad and the commissioner knew about this stuff for so long and nobody said anything about it for years
7:27until it couldn't be contained anymore.
7:29The journalists are the one who broke it and it just made me so mad that I sat down and wrote that first chapter with
7:34the commissioner's perspective. And let me just tell you it's a it's a fictional commissioner. It is absolutely not the the I cannot Am I going to get sued
7:41Matt? Am I potentially going to get sued here?
7:44>> remotely. But >> Hopefully not.
7:46Hopefully not.
7:47>> No, not at all. But in fact, I would have to say I would have to say that your commissioner had to be a lot more
7:54charming than the one in the NFL to be in the situations that he was in even if it was pretty transactional.
8:02>> Well, [laughter] well, so so I wrote that first chapter like it's an angry chapter. It's very mean to that fake commissioner and
8:08funny, I think, hopefully. And he's not sympathetic at all. And then I didn't really I sort of put it aside which is
8:14like a way of getting out some feelings I was having about the league that feel like we feel too often these days. That
8:21we keep having to make allowances for this thing that we love. And um I do love it. Like And so that I'm glad you
8:28made the distinction like so then I was like, okay, what if this was part of a of a novel?
8:34And what should that novel be? And I was I was like, you know, the violence and violence against women is just endemic in the
8:39sport. And there's something about football that seems worse than other sports. Not not totally, but like it seems to happen more frequently. And I kind of wanted to
8:49interrogate that. And the method then was, okay, a season in the life of a team, the team in Detroit.
8:55And let's just crank up reality. This violence against women, let's take it to a quarter turn more and turn it into a
9:02serial killer. And okay, now now there's a serial killer on the team. And it felt like a good way to investigate
9:09um how we feel about football and the various aspects of it. And it became kind of like the having those perspectives that you
9:18mentioned at the beginning was like I wanted to have this kaleidoscope.
9:22Uh I wanted to have a season is football in particular so giant. It's this maximalist enterprise
9:31of football season where I mean, it's 53 players. That's a lot of players. And it's hundreds of staff, and it winds up being thousands of
9:40administrators across the league, and there's so many people, the idea of like how does it come together and succeed or fail is the the razor's edge, and I
9:50think when you're in the middle of it, you have no idea. I've talked to players who are like, "Yeah, I thought I was on
9:54a good team, and then we lost every game." Or I thought, you know, "I couldn't tell if we were good, and then
9:58we won a Super Bowl." And like or everybody thinks they're going to be good, and then they turn out not to be.
10:04So, I wanted it to have this multiple perspectives and multiple uh like first-person or, you know, like focalizations um where you're getting different
10:15perspectives on what it's like to try to summit the mountain of a football season, and then also have this ridiculous crazy story going on of, "Oh
10:24my god, could there really be a serial killer on the team?" And then have kind of the, you know, the American media
10:29landscape get a hold of it in its jaws and not let it go.
10:32>> It kind of feels like I never thought about it this way, but you know, with most stories you you get
10:38in this, you know, often times you'll see with a lot of stories that you that you will read of be a pretty
10:43straightforward linear narrative. Um you know, the plot's pretty linear, and this kind of maybe linear, but it bounces around from character to
10:53character, so you know, so much early on. But the characters are rich even when they're even if it's a short, you
11:00know, it's kind of they're briefly drawn out for each section, and you may not come back to some of the characters for
11:06a while or ever. I don't know yet cuz I'm not finished. I'm like think I'm about 200, where am I?
11:13Yeah, I'm about Let's see if I can read anymore. Yeah, about 210 pages in. This is a >> Oh, you're deep in, yeah.
11:18>> Yeah, so I'm pretty deep in. But um but you know, there's characters like there's a starting quarterback, I'll just share one. The start The the
11:26starting quarterback who has who goes to like this underground shop and gets all these like just weird collectors things
11:37that I wouldn't even call them correct collectors. He's getting scammed almost, you know, and it's and it's he's getting scammed and they're luck charms, but
11:44they're like macabre kind of luck charms.
11:47>> Famous person macabre luck charms, yeah.
11:49>> Yeah, and so it's just like that that's crazy, you know, that's kind of crazy.
11:54But then also you you kind of some there's there are characters you sympathize with even when ones who may have like there's a character who
12:05I don't know how to put it this way without people going off on me about it.
12:09Um, but there are some characters that you look at them and you think of players who've done some really awful things and you go
12:17they they were enabled since high school to behave this way. And you can you can you know, you can argue that right is
12:26right and wrong is wrong and that you should know better. And I would say that in many cases that's true. I would also
12:33say that if part of the recruiting establishment is to have hostesses and I'm not saying the hostesses are hoes. I mean, that's basically what I, you know,
12:42but I would say that there is a lot of underground encouragement for players to be able to um just basically have sex with people that
12:52they want to have sex with and people are thrown at them. I mean, I I know a judge in New Orleans, a criminal judge
13:00who who I was good friends with and she was in law school and she was I mean, I was 36,
13:09she was 30 she was 35 when when we knew each other.
13:14And I will just say I mean, I don't mind saying it, but I laughed cuz it it wasn't D.J. Shockley himself, but D.J.
13:21Shockley came into a bar. She was playing pool with some law students of hers and they came in with like a velvet
13:28rope. Like one of those rope like and they [laughter] and they literally put it in they literally put it in the bar
13:35in Athens.
13:37And they had sorority sisters literally lining up you know, to talk to these guys.
13:45And one of the one of the part of the entourage and one of the guys who was on the team hit on my friend. I wasn't there. She
13:53came and told me like later that night, but she was like, "Yeah, he hit on me."
13:57And I'm like, "I'm too old for you and I'm not interested and you know, I you know." And she's from Brooklyn and she's like this
14:05just amazing like 6'3" tall powerhouse of a human being who is just charming and and pretty and funny and
14:17like she's not going to waste her time with that kind of thing going on. And he literally responded to her. His response
14:24was this crass like, "Well, there's there's you know, there's 10 women waiting in line basically to to blow the guys that are standing here at the
14:34booth." I mean like that was the entitled thought of this. So, when you you know, and she told him to go back to preschool
14:44or something crass like that and like and then goodbye. But like he you know, it's that mentality and when you think about players who people throw
14:53themselves at them, then they start thinking, "Well, how do I how do I get easy sex? How do I have this these
15:00opportunities to do these things?" And you can see how it can go just one step way too too far and then they go five
15:08steps way too far and there's some point where you go, "Dude, you should have known better." But there's also a point
15:14where you think if you you know, power corrupts absolutely, that's that's a form of power. And you see that in this book with various
15:23stages of it, but then there's a character that I look at and if I remember correctly, he's base- he's the linebacker. He's like the soul of the
15:29team.
15:30And I don't know yet for sure cuz I feel like I'm going to be wrong if I say to myself, you know,
15:38>> Who done it?
15:39>> [laughter] >> Who done it? Yeah. Who did it or who did it?
15:41>> or anything like yeah, but I feel like I look at him and I go, he seems like the type of guy that NFL players I do know
15:47who were like pretty good family men who were like you know, who were guys that were just you know, that when they are players
15:55that go, "Hey, it's not all like that.
15:57It's just the ones that get put in the news they're everywhere and it feels like it's everybody." But like I feel
16:03like you do that you balanced it out well. And but then I feel like I'm waiting for the rug to get pulled out
16:09from under me. So I'm not sure yet.
16:12>> Well, it is a it is a story and it's, you know, authorly license. Um yeah, I would I appreciate your kind words and it's so
16:20nice to be able to talk about it and um and like you know, you've obviously read it and that's makes a big difference too
16:27and it's I'm I'm really appreciative and humbled. Um The the the reason I would want someone to read it is if you as a person love the
16:38NFL. Like I love the NFL. I love it.
16:42Um but if you have if you feel like you're compromised morally for loving it like I do. I personally like we'll talk about Josh
16:51Jacobs. We'll talk about who you know, just ho- ho- horrible thing. I mean, it's it isn't just players. It's mostly not players. It's the Bears holding the
16:59city of Chicago hostage for whatever, 10 billion dollars or whatever they want, you know, or they'll move. It's it's just a league that makes it hard to
17:07love it. And if you feel that sometimes and you like a good mystery, I think you might like it. What were you going to
17:13say? Sorry.
17:13>> No, I think you're right. I mean, I think it's important it's a that was a good way to to broach an important topic with that
17:20because I think that if you don't have ambivalence about the realities of the of the sport, then you I don't I don't think you're looking
17:28very hard, you know, and you don't have to look very hard to in the first place.
17:33So, I mean, I I I absolutely do and I I love football. I would say that you know, as someone who
17:41grew up in circumstances that were not always easy, I would say that football was a really great outlet for me that
17:48probably would have resulted in me probably having behaviors that would not have been good and it was a nice release
17:57valve for me and to be able to have kind of something to balance through until I got old enough to look around and go
18:05"You know, maybe I should um maybe I should seek a little bit of help and get some and get some knots untied in my life. So,
18:13because I'm not going to be able to hit people and get hit forever legally and >> [laughter] >> and and then I'm probably going to feel
18:22a little depressed about it and I might act out on it. I don't think that that was I don't think I would have acted
18:27out, but I definitely think I definitely felt some depression early on in my life and I never thought about it until I was
18:34like reading this book, reading, you know, thinking about football and the good and the bad and realizing, "Wow, you know, on the
18:43there is a cathartic release with that."
18:45I know some players who I you know, my my buddy Ryan Riddle who was a you know, the um leading the leading all the all-time
18:54single season sack leader at Cal. He played with Marshawn and and Aaron Rodgers and he is the he is a sweetheart
19:02of a human being who lives in LA and um he has two daughters who are growing up wonderfully and he's a he's just he is
19:11lit- He's a cinephile. He literally just Great guy. And, you know, at the same time, you know, I remember asking him
19:19what his favorite play was, and his eyes just light up, and it's kind of like watching those those shows where people change right
19:26before your eyes, and he's talking about running down a field as a kick return um coverage, and literally cross-body blocking two players, and hitting and
19:36pushing those guys at Stanford into the kicker, and he leg-whipped one of the guys that he hit cuz he hit the first
19:43guy, and he said He said, "I went right through them. I felt my energy go through them, and it was an amazing
19:48feeling, but this guy got carried off the field. This guy took like 10 minutes for them to get him off the field." You
19:54know, it was that kind of thing.
19:55And I said, "Do you miss it?" I mean, cuz he's in his mid-30s. He mid-to-late 30s now. I go, "Do you Do you miss the
20:02contact?" Cuz he never got hurt. He played in He played with a number of different teams. He was about to like
20:09start in Atlanta when Bobby Petrino was like, "Yeah, you're going to start for me at outside linebacker. Get a house here."
20:16And then the whole thing with Petrino happened.
20:19And then the And then the um the housing market went kaput, and he had his house for a number of years
20:25while still in not in LA.
20:27But like I ask him, you know, he's doing great, but I asked him about all that, and he goes He goes, "Honestly," he goes, "there's
20:33parts of me that like I I feel like I need to get an outlet.
20:37Like I have to have an outlet." Like he goes, "I He goes, "It's not impacting other people that I'm dealing with, and
20:44I would never let that happen." He said, "But it's But the If you're raised to have the violence of that game,
20:50something's not right." He always would say it. "Something's not right with you if you like being hit like that and hitting people like that with a high
20:59level of violent violence, especially on a kick return team." So, it I think your subject is you know, makes so much sense. I just
21:08wonder like how why did you decide to to go the route of the vignettes like that? What was appealing to you about about trying
21:18that?
21:19>> Trying different multi like all these multiple perspectives?
21:22>> Yeah.
21:23>> Yeah.
21:24I think it really was trying to I mean first of all, it's a good way to it's a good authorly trick to have a mystery
21:30story because then you get to introduce the perspectives a lot of a lot of suspects.
21:35>> Right.
21:35>> So in some regards it's just the mechanics of trying to write a mystery story. And then but I do think it's
21:40something about um the way to deliver an overall message. One way that you can deliver an overall message is
21:50not by having the whole story told by one person but instead be giving all these different perspectives of the same thing and not everybody's going to
21:59quite have the same perspective. It becomes like a mosaic.
22:01>> Yeah.
22:02>> And the more you kind of you know, you're trying not to hit the same note over and over with different
22:07perspectives. Obviously, you're trying to have them be different. And uh hopefully though that they all kind of come together, the mosaic comes
22:14together, all the little pieces that maybe don't look like they would fit and then you know, they all kind of fit and
22:21you get an overall look at what I'm hopefully saying about the place of a football in American culture, the sort of the unkillability,
22:30the the the golden goose that can't be killed, these billionaires who were born on third base and think they hit a
22:35triple and you know, they're they're geniuses because football's successful.
22:39In fact, nothing else they do is successful but they so you know, they it's an unkillable league at least so far
22:46despite all its problems. Um So I thought the reason was to try to give that picture but not have it be
22:53coming from one character but kind of have it be the sum total of all the character perspectives.
22:59>> It kind of the way you talked about you know, doing that, at first I have to admit at first as I'm I'm reading
23:06through all the perspectives, there's a part of me that was thinking about I'm going, I'm a little overwhelmed with how many people are going through that. But
23:13then >> How many stories?
23:14>> Yeah, how many different stories. But then I think about the way you described the building and described that there's 53 players and that there's all this
23:22coaching staff and there's all of these things going on and it's such a huge operation and it's like you want to be
23:30overwhelmed on. It's It's like the first time you actually if you did play football and you're the and it's the first time that you're running down the
23:36field on a kickoff and there's all these things happening and it's like >> kickoff.
23:41>> You know, >> [laughter] >> exactly. You know.
23:44>> It's It's chaos.
23:45>> Yeah. And that's what you That's what you did a good job of showing is that is it's chaos even during the season and
23:53also just like the utter ridiculousness of some of these coaches. Like >> [laughter] >> that That That I've always felt as well,
24:00too. So, there's There's comedy in it. It's funny and then you have these touching moments where you didn't realize it was going to
24:07be touching like that and then you also have all the different ways that a human being could [ __ ] over another
24:14human being.
24:16>> [laughter] >> There is kind of >> A lot of that.
24:18>> There's a lot of that, too. But it's like but it is fascinating because there's you know, there's you have ambivalence about some
24:26characters and I always think that that's a great That's always great because it's telling the truth. When you feel ambivalence about human beings,
24:34someone's writing from a place of truth most of the time from that. So, yeah.
24:39>> Thank you.
24:39>> Yeah, absolutely.
24:41>> I mean my thing my thing sorry, we'll wrap it up. I mean the folks who don't feel conflicted and are just like football's awesome. I
24:49don't know what you're talking about.
24:51You know, I get it.
24:52I have cognitive dissonance about a lot of things, too. I don't know how I feel.
24:57>> I do.
24:58>> [laughter] >> Yeah.
25:01>> Um but I don't want it to come across as though it's a hatred. It's It's like you said, you know, there are times I'm
25:07reading this and I'm like, does Chris hate football? But then other times you're like, oh no, he obviously loves it. And that's how I feel all day, every
25:13day. It's my job. I'm I I would say maybe this is like an effort to take it back. I Maybe this
25:19book is my attempt to take it take football back from from the people who think they own it. Like I've said this a
25:25bunch as I've been talking with people about the book. Like we own it. The owners think they own the game, they
25:31don't. They make money off the game. We own the game. And like I I I want to I want to make the people who charge $25
25:39for a pretzel give me the game back. You know, fine, take the money. But like I want to I don't want them to be able to ruin my
25:47experience, if that makes sense.
25:48>> Yeah. No, it absolutely does. And it's um >> Yeah.
25:52>> you know, and I think that that's the that's the thing. I mean, you look at this you look at this story and it's far
26:00more than just a mystery, you know, it's >> Well, thanks.
26:02>> And so I you know, definitely worthwhile. It is It is definitely well written.
26:08Um you know, and you get the you know, you kind of you really get a good sense of some of these characters and then
26:15like the narrator's point of view about some things that I think are that are that are fun and and add to add to it
26:22overall. So, yeah, so where can people get it?
26:26>> Anywhere you get books. Amazon or bookshop.org or Barnes & Noble or Yeah. I mean, I think mostly mostly you'll find it online and uh
26:37I hope people like it. Thank you for Thank you for asking me about it. And thanks for reading it.
26:42>> No, absolutely. I've enjoyed it. I just, you know, you know how August gets, so I'm looking forward I but it's a little
26:48week zero. We're at week zero, you know, right now. So I think this weekend I'm going to get a chance to do a little bit
26:54more reading, so that'll be awesome.
26:56But, um yeah, with week zero in mind, what are some thoughts about you know, anything that come to mind to you about
27:04this year? Like for me, an example would be I think the 49ers are the most volatile team in in the league right now. Like
27:13they either are going to be in the playoffs again or they're going to be like one of the top five teams picking next year, just due
27:20to the the aging of these players and what's going on with them.
27:25>> Interesting.
27:26Yeah, such a good coaching staff. I think we probably all admire the coaching staff and it comes with the 9ers, it just comes down to
27:34health. They're just can't Last year the defense was just destroyed and some of the offense, too, and now they lose their best receiver before the
27:41season even before training camp even gets going and you know, Mike Evans had like five soft tissue injuries in August and
27:50like McCaffrey, cool. I hope he can do that again cuz, you know, if I I I I hope he can, but yeah, the the
27:59electrical substation sure does have a lot of authority over the 49ers.
28:03>> Yes.
28:05>> Yeah, I I can see where you're coming from. It's it's it's too good a coaching staff to to be constantly, um
28:12fighting so many injuries and it does make you wonder not so much about the substation, but about like training methods or
28:19something. I guess it's just can just be bad luck, but it's a lot of bad luck, for sure.
28:24>> Yeah, without a doubt. So, what's a what's a take like that for you that you look at and say, "Okay, the this is kind
28:30of what's been forming in my mind as I've been keeping up with how things are developing over the off season and the summer?"
28:37>> Like a team that I have a a strong take on, um you know, I I'm very close to the Patriots. I am a
28:45Patriots fan and I do have like people who are close to the team that I like have a little bit of insight into, and I
28:53think they think um they're going to be good, and it's not going to be a typical Super Bowl loser tank of a season.
29:01Uh but, I think there's real questions about that defense. Real questions about that pass rush.
29:08Uh and if they're you know, we're all going That's going to be the first game we're all going to get to see on Wednesday
29:13against the Seahawks in Seattle. That's a tough ask, really tough crowd, really great home environment, and a you know, a banner raising kind of Lombardi
29:22celebrating type thing, and that's going to be a hard ask to win that game.
29:27Um I just don't know who rushes the passers for the Patriots. And maybe in some weird roundabout way that leads to better offensive numbers for
29:38the offense because they wind up giving a lot of a lot of points they didn't have give up last year. You know, they played from
29:45ahead against a very easy schedule the entire season last year. And may you know, a lot of times for the purposes of fantasy, people say, "Cool,
29:55I want the team that's I want the Jacoby Brissett Cardinals playing from behind and constantly needing to throw."
30:02If playing from behind were always a prerequisite for fantasy goodness and great stats for an offense, you know, the the Saints from
30:11you know, a few years ago or the Browns should have tons of great fantasy weapons. You know, they they do not. So,
30:19uh I would say like from a from a worry perspective, the reason that the Patriots might not live up to my
30:27expectations for them is that they just didn't really address pass rusher.
30:32>> Yeah, that makes sense. So, so who just for any reason, who are some players or teams on your mind for whatever reason
30:40that you'd like to share some thoughts about whether it's you think they're going to rebound, they're going to emerge, they're you're worried about
30:47them regressing, or that you think they're overrated or underrated. Just what whatever comes to mind.
30:55>> I mean, the first thing comes to mind is a dude who could have been ripped from the pages of a pound foolish, unfortunately, Josh
31:03Jacobs, and what that means for the Packers. There's all of this philosophical conversation going on beyond the you know, ridiculous nature of why are you doing
31:14this and getting yourself essentially like, you know, canceled for a season, maybe. Um and and having that trickle down to okay, so now we have to remember
31:24what we thought of Marshaun Lloyd as a prospect, and then we have to guess whether Marshaun Lloyd and his stream of
31:31injuries these last 2 years have changed him and he's not going to be the same prospect that we remember. And then we
31:37have this notion of what the Packers were like last year, and I don't know. That was a weird experience, Matt LaFleur, watching that
31:45team last year. I thought he was going to get fired.
31:48I mean, certainly the way they blew the playoff game, that could have been the the cherry on top, absolutely. But so
31:54often watching Packer games last year, I would have the feeling of like rope-a-dope, they were trying to do the thing where they just run run punt
32:06and let you screw up and mess up and like let they let teams hang around hang around hang around for way too long. And I think
32:14Jordan Love it appeared to me, not knowing anything, but like just watching the games, that he got really frustrated. And there were times where
32:21he would like bristle and just say, "Ah, screw it." And then he would you know, then he would take the shot
32:27down the field and sometimes ill-advised. And it wound up being this weird misshapen sort of mis- misbegotten good season. Like they were good and
32:36they lost a home game, so you know you you you can Actually, no, it wasn't a It was the lost a road playoff. It was in Chicago.
32:44But anyway, they lost a game they should have won, obviously. Um So, the philosophical question comes down to, okay, so now you don't have
32:52your very, very good running back to fall back on.
32:57You're talking about trying to run a more you know, pass-oriented offense anyway.
33:02Maybe this is the kick in the pants to let Jordan Love cook a little more and let some of those receivers flex
33:09their muscles, and maybe we get to see the offense that we've kind of hoped for out of Matt LaFleur from the McVay tree.
33:16Why are we not getting this swashbuckling that we typically get out of the McVay tree?
33:20I have my eyes on that uh to just kind of like you have to process, metastasize, whatever the Jacobs' absence is going to
33:29be. That's a huge part It's the most important offensive player they've had these last 2 years. And now that you don't have him
33:36how does the rest of the tree go or go grow around that wound, I guess.
33:40>> The um and for sure. And you know, when I think about this team, I do think about Jordan Love. And maybe it's
33:45because I had such concerns about a certain aspect of his game at Utah State.
33:52But he reminded me of not athletically, not anything one-to-one, but just a a certain trait of his that wasn't so good. It reminded
34:02me of Jimmy Garoppolo in the sense of like Yeah, as the game became tight and you had to process the field
34:12with a level of clarity and be um disciplined about what you saw and didn't see and what you should try to do
34:21and not try to do Jordan Love got super reckless, as you alluded to. Um you know, at times. He was one of those guys that you watch him
34:29at Utah and he'd make three or four mistakes in a row that were like should have in the NFL they would have been
34:37down by like 17 points within the span of 3 minutes with the types of plays that he made. In college football it was
34:44more like he made two straight mistakes and he lost the game, but they should have probably, you know, if it was a NFL
34:50team they would have been down a a fair amount. And it was always throwing off his back foot and kicking his feet high in the air and not really
34:59seeing where he was throwing and making making throws into coverage that were trying to go through the player, the defensive player, rather than, you know,
35:10just not targeting that coverage at all, just not seeing it well. And it's like he does well all game or for a lot of the game, and then when
35:18it the game gets tight it's either the coverage that he's misreading or he gets impatient under pressure and he ends up um just making
35:28desperation calls where it's like he tilts, you know, and so that's my concern with him is that they've have you're right, they
35:38have a nucleus nucleus that's that's promising in a lot of ways, but they needed, you know, to me I look at Jayden Reed and I go,
35:46"Okay, you have a top 20 player the first 2 years, he got hurt last year and tried to play through it, which I don't
35:52know, you know, they didn't need to do that, but they did. He got hurt again.
35:56But he's not even their starter technically and hasn't really been their starter technically, you know, and then you look at some of the talent that they
36:05have and that hasn't fully developed in in certain areas, but you can see like every once, you know, there's a player that will have a huge
36:14game, you know, Christian Watson will have some huge weeks, you know, you look at a player like like that or um
36:22you know, Dontayvion Wicks, you know, before he got sent off, you could see moments where you'd say, all right, they they've got the chance to really develop
36:31some talent. But, um but yeah, you're right I'm going with the run game. Is it Marshawn Lloyd? Is it Christopher Brooks, possibly, who can cuz like I see
36:41this team you mentioned New England and I think this could be a poor man's version of Rhamondre Stevenson and Christopher Brooks.
36:48And and TreVeyon Henderson and Marshawn Lloyd, if Lloyd keeps fumbling the football like he did at USC or tries to do what Travis Etienne or um D'Andre
36:59Swift did early in their careers, which is just not be disciplined between the tackles. And and and he kind of had some of that in
37:07him where I'm going to out athlete everybody. Um so, if he can fix that, it's you know, really high potential there, but there's like three ifs with
37:15him. And when you look at like the the Edwards Institute stuff, you don't know whether or not that's a trial and error process. He may feel
37:23great right now, but the those specialists know not everybody's the same, not every injury's the same. And maybe we set a baseline with him, but
37:33let's see what happens when he starts, you know, doing certain things that favor parts of his body that that he shouldn't and now he's run down
37:41or having those types of issues. So, yeah.
37:45Um all right, so how about what's your thoughts on Matthew Stafford? Cuz this is one that just it boggles my mind that
37:54we're looking at a player who was what, the second best or third best quarterback in fantasy football, and he's got two elite receivers,
38:02but he's he's going outside the top 12? I mean, is I is that as inexplicable to you as it is as this me?
38:11>> It is absolutely It It seems like just a cheat code for this year. I'm just waiting forever and taking Stafford in the ninth
38:18or 10th round or whatever and I think it's going to work out great. I I've had the debate many times on other
38:25people's shows and I've had people on my show and had the debate about you don't understand that there's just a statistical there's
38:33proof in my numbers that say running quarterbacks don't go high enough in drafts and non-running quarterbacks go too high in drafts and I
38:41guess I understand that in the aggregate. I don't think those numbers can account for the small sample size of oh, I don't know Hall of Fame
38:48quarterbacks.
38:50There's like Matthew Stafford's going to regress this year. You don't say. You mean he's not going to throw almost 50 touchdowns again? Wow. The I've said
38:59this a bunch and I apologize for repeating myself, but like you know what happens if he regresses by 11 touchdowns?
39:06He still leads the NFL last year cuz he won by 12.
39:09>> Yeah.
39:09>> Um like yes, he's going to regress and he's still going to be good if he stays healthy because he plays for one of the true offensive
39:18geniuses in the league and one of the offenses and if you know me, you know, it's not that many. I generally don't
39:25try to pretend I know what these offenses are going to be because they reinvent themselves every single year, but it's one of the few offenses that
39:32are in the circle of trust like kind of no matter what I think it's going to be pretty good.
39:36You don't say Matthew Stafford had an unsustainable touchdown rate. Okay, but is it unsustainable if every time they get inside the 10 Davante Adams just
39:45gets open like he's wide open. I think he's going to throw it sometimes in those situations. And yes, he's not going to throw 48 touchdowns, but he
39:54throws 35 and he's still a top-five quarterback. He doesn't need to run at all.
39:59If you have worries about Stafford, of course, it's related to age and injury and I understand it could fall off, but
40:06it's not in most leagues a scarce position.
40:09And so I don't need to really worry about it. I'll find replacement if he gets hurt. It reminds me so much of
40:162020 and 2021 Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers.
40:20Nobody wanted to draft him. Everybody made the exact same arguments then.
40:24Rodgers won back-to-back MVPs. Brady won a Super Bowl and was awesome. Led the league in touchdown passes the next year. So, um I would be in on Stafford,
40:33yes.
40:33>> Yeah, I was recommending it and giving the same reasons. And you have to think about you know, Matthew Stafford Matthew Stafford has contacted Tom Brady
40:42to like pick his brain about the workouts and diet and nutrition that he he did. He's 37. He looks better than
40:50the doughboy at the University of Georgia. He used to eat too much fried chicken, probably, um while he was there. Okay? And I know probably where
40:58he went um cuz I was there when he was there um as, you know, working there.
41:03And he definitely looked like he had one too many um probably you know, six-piece Guthrie's chicken tenders with the with the
41:11>> Or just beer.
41:12>> Or just beer.
41:13>> Lots of it.
41:14>> You know, and he looks he looks he's in shape. The game slowed down for him. And when people when you bring up the
41:21numbers, I laugh about that because it's like well, can we say that also running for 500 or more yards is sustainable year
41:29after year? I mean, I you know, Jackson Dart is that going to be Yeah, is that going to be sustainable? Um was it
41:36sustainable for for Lamar Jackson year after year? He's had some good years.
41:41But the other reason is, oh, he can win from the pocket. He can actually throw the ball. And the guys who, you know,
41:48you did do have that added number, but Jared Goff's underrated every year, and he only rushed for 45 yards. But he has
41:57three players who give you top 15 production at their at their position.
42:02You're really going to bet against a quarterback who is seeing the field slower, that's slowed down for him, than pretty much
42:10any player in the league because of his age and his experience.
42:14Who's healthier than he's ever been cuz injuries that he had were like bones broken. They were in his back, which sucks, but like he was playing with it.
42:23He's not like it's you know, the injuries that he had he's able to recoup from. He's in one like you said one of
42:30the best offenses in the league and oh, I don't know has two of probably eight of the two of the eight best
42:37route runners on his team. I mean, can you I don't know if I would name a duo that I would want more of than Davante
42:45Adams and you're going to tell me you're not going to pick that guy. Like to me that's that's that's inexplicable and
42:52when you say context, you know, they don't have the context to look at those numbers and say say that because you
42:58look at you look at top players who were able to if they had two or two top players who could be like top 15, you
43:07have a lot of older players like Peyton Manning and Kurt Warner and you know, guys like that going all the way back to
43:14Dan Fouts if you want to say, but like who who were able to produce like this.
43:19So, yeah, to me that's dead on. It's a total cheat code.
43:24>> Yeah.
43:25All right.
43:26>> Yeah, so um How about any you know, are you are you Are there any players that you just feel
43:35are going to rebound this year that you were um you either out on last year or they they just had a they've had a tough stretch
43:44and you're looking at them saying I'm kind of hopeful.
43:47>> I'm hopeful for DJ Moore. That's the first name that popped in my head when you just said that. We're we're like
43:53just flying by the seat of our pants.
43:55We're just talking. So, uh we don't have prep, but the the name that flew into my head was DJ Moore.
44:01I I don't want to get too aggressive drafting more because I understand it it's been it's been a lot of people like me, tape
44:09watchers, who keep saying he should be better than this. He should be better than this. He's really only ever had one excellent season.
44:16Then again, so is CD Lamb. But um and it was you know, it was Justin Fields year. It was a Tyson Bagent year.
44:23That's not really what you want. You want the quarterback to be good at football.
44:27Uh last year was very disappointing.
44:30Disappointing to me, disappointing to Bears, disappointing to fantasy managers.
44:34Um I think I'm not breaking any new ground by saying it seems like a better fit with Josh Allen as opposed to Ben
44:43Johnson. That you know, the Ben Johnson really wanting you to be where you're supposed to be offense versus the Josh Allen fairly impro- Like I think the
44:51improvisation would be gets overstated, but it is fairly late in the down improvisational and that's why one of your guys, Khalil
44:58Shakir, has thrived there cuz he's just smart.
45:01And I think DJ Moore's really smart, too.
45:04He's just a little bit of a freelancer and that drives some offensive coordinators crazy.
45:10I don't think it'll drive the Bills as crazy. Um so I I can't tell you I'm positive because last year was rough and I have some
45:19emotional skin in the game. I don't want to get hurt again. But uh I'll I'll I'll say DJ Moore bounces back.
45:24>> Yeah. I think that that's a I I definitely think that makes sense and you in the way you described that makes is
45:32good. I mean, and that's why he had such a good season with with um Justin Fields cuz Justin Fields could would improvise
45:38a fair bit and they would lean on that.
45:40But yeah, when you want a highly structured offense getting to where he was supposed to be, that was frustrating for the Bears and
45:46let me go on from there. But I always joke that Josh Allen is kind of the NFL's Ricky Bobby. Um >> [laughter]
45:53>> you know, it's you may you know, depending on you where you're from. Like I had I had a Bills fan really complain
46:00to me cuz he thought I was really insulting Josh Allen in saying that, you know, but if you really think about the
46:05that movie, you know, or maybe from a Southerner's point of view about some of it, it's it's it's kind of like the fool play, you
46:12know, catching, you know, playing the fool to catch the wise a little bit with that with that character. And so, you
46:20you know, you look at it and say, "Yeah, I mean, sometimes Josh is that brash, like 'Merica, you know, kind of
46:27>> [laughter] >> kind of way of playing football. Like and but at the same time, you also see where he he's he's become very technically
46:35sound and very much a student of the game with a lot of aspects of his play.
46:40And that the Bears the Bills also said, "You know, we don't want you just leaning on one player. We need you to
46:46delegate. We need to And we're going to influence you to do that cuz the more the less you delegate, the more you
46:52start doing the the crazy stuff Ricky Bobby's doing and then you're running around in your underpants and calling for Allah, you know, Gandhi, [laughter]
47:00the Jewish guy, you know, things like that. So, um you know, it's So, I think with with Moore, there's just enough of
47:08that improvisational skills where they they mesh well. And, you know, they asked Josh Allen about it. He's like, "Yeah, I don't have a
47:15problem at all with him. I just think that Moore got a little bit more criticism because folks like me were like,
47:22'He's not running the right He's not running the right adjustment to this particular thing.' And he's like, 'What are these bloggers now?' And then the
47:29quarterback for the team turned he came out in force and basically said, 'No, you're not You know you're not doing this the way you're supposed to be doing
47:36it.' But again, it doesn't mean he's a bad player. He's a very talented player. It's just fit can be helpful. Not everyone can be
47:44everything at the position. There's only one Jerry Rice or, you know, you know, one Marshall Faulk or things like that. So,
47:52so yeah. But I mean, listen, this was this was fantastic. And I again, I want to recommend to people, you know, check
48:00this out. You know, you can check it out at a place near you.
48:03Pound Foolish, I'm you know, again, I'm about 210, 220 pages into it. Really enjoying it. And you know, Christopher has four other books that, you know, are
48:13worth checking out too. And we'll, you know, Looking Out the Mirror, Slotback Rhapsody, The Big Clear, War on Sound, and Tulsa. So.
48:24>> Yes, sir.
48:25>> Yes. So, definitely multi-talented and good friend of ours. And you know, we're glad to have you on. And you know,
48:33best of luck with with the book. And you know, I know we'll be catching up during the season.
48:39>> We will. Thank you for having me, Matt.
48:40It was really, really fun. I appreciate it. And thanks to everybody.
48:43>> Take care, y'all.