0:00Let's get into the fun part of this.
0:01This is Jeff's five biggest disagreements with me based on our rankings, which by the way, as as we said, are in flux, okay? There's some
0:09movement for both of us.
0:11I know coming after this show, but again, guys, that we're generally not in the same We're not We might not be in
0:16the same neighborhood on these guys, right? Maybe we'll eventually get into the same zip code, but we're probably not going to be living on the same
0:22street with these particular players.
0:24>> Look at the release.
0:25>> There's your separation.
0:27>> Great route.
0:27>> Stutter and go gets by clean.
0:29>> That is unbelievable.
0:30>> the greatest catch I've ever seen.
0:35>> And let's start with the most difficult conversation because this is a player I'm very, very high on. You're significantly lower on Rome Odunze than
0:42I am. Now, to be clear, I'm higher than market on Rome Odunze and I'm pretty content remaining that way just cuz I
0:49have a big belief in this player and Jeff, I have a big belief in just where the Bears are going this year
0:55offensively. So, people that listen to this show, watch this channel, they know how I feel about Rome Odunze, so they probably don't need a refresher.
1:03How do you feel about Odunze coming to this season, especially relative to where the Bears offense is right now and the kind of constant cultural war of you
1:10can't be a Burden bro and an Odunze backer, which I think you can be, but maybe you can make the case that that
1:15I'm wrong about that.
1:18>> I think that the the Cole Kmet and Luke Musgrave is a complicating factor in all of this and that's been my answer on who
1:25you know, is it is it Luther Burden? Is it Rome Odunze? It's Cole Kmet and Luke Musgrave. For me, I think it's the the
1:31solution there and and everything that we're seeing with the way that they attacked that tight end room in the draft and and opening it up Musgrave to
1:38really play as that big slot. I I tend to believe that that's the player that if you talk about who's going to eat
1:45first, I think Cole Kmet and Luke Musgrave is going to eat first within this offensive scheme. And Odunze, it's it's not so much that I'm just way out
1:52on Odunze, it's just that where probably again, where the math kind of ends up because if you've got I do tend to lean
1:59towards Burden. I see Burden stepping in. I don't know that the Amon-Ra St.
2:03Brown comparison is quite accurate on and the way that you might see Lose Burden working out there, but to some degree, I mean, Rome Odunze he was
2:11inherited by Ben Johnson. Ben Johnson went out and got two targets. His first two picks were two targets in the receiver game and and so I think that
2:19fundamentally when you're breaking down where Ben Johnson wants to attack defenses, it it tends to lean into Cole Kmet and Loveland into D.J. Moore and so
2:27if you're going to allocate even if you're projecting a really high upside for the Bears offense, which I am. I do think it's going to be a very
2:36good offense, one that we want to be invested with.
2:39How many third targets are we really feeling great about when it comes down to it at the end of the day? And I think
2:44a lot of it it might be shaded because we've never really seen tight ends eat at a high high volume. It's always been
2:51like thinking about the Denver when they had three wide receivers with Payton Manning and Julius Thomas being relevant, too. It was a lot of touchdown
2:58upside on Julius Thomas Julius Thomas hitting on that regard there. We're seeing a lot more I think volume flowing through Loveland throwing flowing
3:07through Burden and to some regard it leaves Odunze really just kind of for me on the back end of a tier when you
3:14breaks down to it. Now, obviously the Burden injury might shade things a little bit as we get closer to the season have a better timeline when he's
3:22going to be expected and we recognize how much time he's missed out of this, but that that's I think my biggest
3:27hang-up on Rome Odunze of less being worried about the foot or worried about anything like that more just recognizing that a third target within a passing
3:36attack tends to end up not being the very best for fantasy.
3:40>> Yeah, that's what makes this so difficult to rank for me between these guys. Now, I've definitely when I had my
3:46rankings open up before the Burden injury, I pretty much had Odunze and Burden kind of tied. Like I do a little
3:52bit honestly, if we're being super transparent, I don't know you probably don't do this cuz you're a serious ranker and I'm just a goofball.
3:58Um >> Not that.
3:58>> I I always like I love to do the hedge ranking with a wide receiver room where I'm like, well, we'll see. Like, I think
4:03it's pretty much a toss-up between these two guys. I kind of will just have them basically park next to each other. And I
4:08do do view it as a toss-up between A Dunze and Burden as to who's going to be, you know, the quote wide receiver
4:13one. Now, I do have Loveland in my overall rankings ranked ahead of both of these guys if not like a full round
4:19ahead of these guys cuz I do agree with you that especially relative to position, he just stands out much more than these two Bears receivers do. At
4:27the same time though, I mean, when it comes to Burden and A Dunze, like the the injury for Burden, I've I've docked
4:32him down a little bit as a result of that. Still though, I to me, I think the thing that I would
4:38take the most issue with is the idea that, you know, which is reality. Like, right? Ben Johnson did inherit Roman Dunze. That is factually
4:46what happened.
4:47But, he inherited Roman Dunze and then proceeded to like run his entire passing offense through him in the first eight weeks of the season. Which part of that
4:54is of course, you know, Loveland wasn't available yet. Burden wasn't truly available yet. Like, these guys were slow ramp-ups. I recognize obviously
5:00that it probably wasn't going to be the whole offense run through him in the first, you know, in the first eight
5:05weeks and then in the next eight weeks, right? Like, that probably wasn't going to happen. But, ultimately, I just think really good
5:11player, really good offense, just got unlucky with the timing of the injury last year. So, I want to just kind of keep it essentially a toss-up
5:19between Burden, who I'm a also a a really, really big fan of as well. And I think their roles will be pretty
5:25interchangeable between these two guys this year. But, you could tell me if you think any of that is wrong.
5:29>> Well, I mean, for more color on on what how I arrived here. So, I've got Loveland at a 23% target share. I've got
5:36Burden at a 21% target share. And I've got A Dunze at a 20% target share.
5:39>> Yeah, pretty close.
5:40>> I'm I'm expecting Yeah, but I'm expecting efficiency based upon the efficiency that we've seen from A Dunze of lower lower catch rate and and so
5:49that plays into the targets could roughly be similar and so they could you know, be fundamentally involved at the same levels, but if if
5:59we're going to get hyper-efficient Luther Burden on one end and and especially if he's going to be utilized in short intermediate passing game,
6:06whereas Odunze is going to be asked to be a little bit more downfield, I mean, I'm I'm a big Caleb Williams believer,
6:13but statistically it doesn't really Some of the downfield stuff isn't quite where we want it to be yet. Maybe that's DJ
6:19Moore. Um I don't know, but I think that the the catch rate and those those things factor into my numbers and so
6:28I've got Rome Odunze definitely eating within this offense. I've got this offense definitely producing volume, but unless the efficiency pops in some
6:37regard there, then it's going to lead towards the numbers being slightly behind the other two players.
6:42>> Yeah, I think that's the key difference between where we arrive at our final rankings is that I think that the way I
6:49framed this, Jeff, is that if Caleb Williams doesn't get it doesn't make significantly, if not just even marginally, improve off the
6:57player that he was in year in year two in year one in Ben Johnson's offense, which is a really complex offense and
7:02everything of that nature, then yeah, it's going to lean into a lot of the layup targets to Luther Burden.
7:07But if he does take the step forward, that is where a guy like Rome Odunze can really become a big hit because he hits
7:12on the downfield targets. He hits on uh the the touchdowns and everything of the big plays that this offense clearly wants to strike, in addition to the fact
7:19that I think Burden's efficiency will change as he naturally becomes a full-time player, but that's why I don't want to like even though I am betting
7:26big on Odunze and I'm betting big on that efficiency cuz I think he's a great player and I think Caleb Williams can be
7:31better, I'm betting on that changing. I also don't want to bet against Luther Burden in that way, but it is tough and
7:37I don't totally recognize that I am ranking against the math here. Like it is tough to make the math work with the
7:43way that I have ranked these three Bears pass catchers, but you know, you made that Broncos comparison. I'm not saying that this is going to be the 2013
7:49Broncos, but they might need to throw the football that much because of how bad that defense is going to be. That's
7:54all another variable [laughter] here for the Chicago Bears. Speaking of bad defenses but good pass catchers, the next guy that we are a little bit far
8:01apart on is T Higgins. You're like uh 13 spots, I think, in your ranking is behind me on T Higgins cuz I've been
8:08pretty aggressive ranking T Higgins. And Jeff, psychologically, I think some of that is well, I don't just want to forget about this guy because there's a
8:16ton of really interesting and good young players in his tier. Uh but have I overcorrected on T Higgins, who I still
8:21have as kind of like a fringe top 10 receiver here?
8:25>> Yeah, I I think it's that's probably where I'm landing, where I'm coming down on it of him just ending up
8:31mathematically behind a couple of players that I think are going to command while the pie might not be as big, but I
8:39like I've got DJ Moore just above T Higgins because I think DJ Moore's going to come in and be a high-volume receiver
8:45for Josh Allen. I've got Jaylen Waddle just above T Higgins, and I think I mean, you might have concerns on the
8:51injuries of Waddle, or I've got Garrett Wilson just above T Higgins because we've seen when Garrett Wilson has been healthy, he's a 31% target share player.
9:01And so, I think that it's there is it's a really tight tier.
9:06I think as you're looking at those receivers, and and and so, I think mathematically, that's where if you're leaning into the
9:12math side on it, it you can it's I've seen really good content done where kind of you can make the numbers look like
9:19what you want to make the numbers look like. And if you're dealing with a 10-point difference overall between six different wide
9:25receivers, then um one player's going to end up at the back, one player's going to end up at the front. That doesn't
9:31necessarily mean like it's it's a wild difference of this, but I think that's probably where I just land on Higgins of
9:36him probably ending up on the back of a tier behind some receivers that I project for even hesitate to say project for more
9:46predictable volume just that some of the volume argument I think for like a Chris Olave for a Garrett Wilson could be
9:52overwhelmingly pervasive relative to where it could end up on Tee Higgins.
9:57>> Yeah, this is one where I do really wonder if emotionally I come in here and the first thing I'm probably
10:04me three four years ago obviously not this particular player but like a guy like Tee Higgins who we know who Tee
10:11Higgins is we know what the situation is when it's Joe Burrow on the field of the last two years this is a top 10 receiver
10:16in yards per route run this is a you know a super efficient fantasy really good fantasy receiver you know exactly what you're getting when with Tee
10:22Higgins Joe Burrow on the field okay fine. But then there's so many of these good interesting young ascending receivers I know Matt Harmon of four
10:30years ago is just like putting the young ascending guys ahead of the Tee Higgins.
10:34And I maybe I'm over honestly maybe I'm over correcting be like I'm trying to learn my lessons here and just like
10:40don't forget about a guy like Tee Higgins who I also think is really good.
10:44Uh and is is is you know still pretty much in the prime of his career there are also a lot of pitfalls I think for
10:50Tee Higgins potentially this year even without considering injuries to himself and his quarterback Jeff.
10:56I mean if the Bengals defense is you know even the 25th best defense in the NFL that's a market improvement I think
11:01it you know that could happen you never know they're talking a lot about like being more of an under center run team
11:06which you know mixed results in training camp so far even the first preseason drive that we saw the other night mixed
11:12results on that so far so I think there are some pitfalls for Tee Higgins maybe more than just what I'm assuming here
11:18but I do just kind of want to not over complicate the case here that if Burrow's on the field and he's on the
11:22field this is a guy who's going to you know moonwalk to a thousand yards and eight to ten touchdowns essentially.
11:28>> Yeah and and I I know I coaches teams need to understand what they are and I understand that the Bengals defense hasn't been able to stop
11:36somebody anybody and maybe they think the solution to that would be slowing the game down a little bit but it's like
11:42if if you've built fundamentally around Jamar Chase Joe Burrow and Tee Higgins then lean into having [clears throat] those guys and and play some arcade
11:52football essentially and and roll with it. So yeah, I think that's part a big part of it. I I do think that seems like
11:58Chase Brown should be positioned for >> more passing volume than what they've traditionally given to the running back or what he's traditionally seen out of
12:04that offense. I mean they >> I've I've given up on Auden Tate being a thing cuz we've seen Higgins and Chase out of the lineup and and he's
12:13kind of Auden Tate is that sacrificial axe. He is that player that >> the sacrificial slash axe at times. He's just whatever
12:21it is it's the sacrificial something.
12:24>> Yeah. Yeah and and so I think that that and then you know they like Eric Hall and then apparently he's had a strong
12:29camp. I mean it is when you start to if they're really going to slow the ball down and just to try to be able to help their
12:37defense out on that side and involve Chase Brown then the argument start to fall apart a little bit and and it's
12:44again I think it's another one that I'm not particularly low on Tee Higgins but as I look at the players around him I
12:50understand the case of why I've got those players above Tee Higgins.
12:53>> Yeah essentially this one is just kind of your you're just a little I'm probably closer to the market in terms of Yahoo ADP
13:02right now but I'm still a little higher than that.
13:05So this is might be one where I look within that tier on on the Tee Higgins part of it.
13:09>> Jameson is my Tee Higgins so >> Pretty much. But you know what? Like there is a what's the difference between Tee
13:15Higgins and Jameson Williams? I mean probably or George Pickens I mean or George Pickens yeah and George Pickens by the way is more expensive than both
13:23of these guys.
13:25It's interesting interesting to consider but I have I have Higgins and and Pickens in the team same tier, so I'm not going to like push too hard on that
13:32one there. Here's an interesting one and I know why we're far apart on this one and I'm curious to to kind of hear your
13:40case of it. You are 22 spots higher on Courtland Sutton than I am. And this is another one Jeff as as we talked about
13:49earlier like the differences in rank and just like I know I'm going to be probably wrong on where I have Courtland
13:55Sutton when he comes in from an end of year perspective. I I know I'm going to be to to be low on that. But I have a
14:01lot of reasons for why I think I wouldn't draft him this year, which is why I just keep docking him in my
14:05rankings. But why do you still have Courtland Sutton in a really You have him wide receiver 27. So you're saying like not only is he a
14:12You're not not only is Harmon just a dumbass for ranking him wide receiver 49, but also the market is too low on
14:19Courtland Sutton. So I know it for me it's just I'm sky-high on Jaylen Waddle what he's going to be in this offense.
14:25>> is a transformative player and in addition to kind of like some of the role players here. So that's my case
14:29against Sutton, but where am I missing the mark on Courtland Sutton?
14:35>> Yeah, I think the I tend to think the common view on this has been Sean Payton has one wide receiver and
14:42then everybody else kind of does their different things. And and so by bringing Jaylen Waddle in, he becomes that one wide receiver and then Courtland Sutton
14:50fades into the background of being somebody else that does the different things. But I I tend to view this as one
14:57we know that they're going to throw the ball a lot this offense. They're they're not going to go out trade for Jaylen
15:01Waddle to throw the ball less than where they were last year on throwing the ball quite a bit. And and two, I think that
15:08as you look at the Troy Franklin, the Marvin Mims and I think Pat Bryant probably is a separate has separated himself in that conversation, but if you
15:16were to if you're to just look at fundamentally building this out, you're not going to ask Courtland Sutton to do things that
15:24Courtland Sutton doesn't do at this point stage of his career. But if you just go out and ask Courtland Sutton to
15:29do all the things he's been doing through his career, we saw him be a top-12 wide receiver last year in that
15:33role. And then you bring Waddle in, and Waddle is that versatile player. Waddle can kind of be what you were asking Troy
15:39Franklin to do, and what you were asking Marvin Mims to do, and whatever little Jordan Humphrey role is in this offense.
15:44If you just snowball those together into one player, that could be Jaylen Waddle's role in this offense. I'm still high on Jaylen Waddle while still being
15:52high on Courtland Sutton, while still probably being above market on Pat Bryant now that it's come down to where it works out there. And uh so I think
15:59it's fundamentally expect a high of volume passing attack. I think that I expect Courtland Sutton the Pat Bryant conversation can shade it, but
16:09everything that I've seen on I think that the that's an example of where fantasy is doing like the dynasty thing and it's kind of ready to be off
16:17Courtland Sutton anyways because of Jaylen Waddle.
16:19>> [clears throat] >> And so they're just saying, you know, Pat Bryant's coming for the chain >> log on the fire basically essentially.
16:25>> Where whereas like it's one that like as you dig into what the actual comments are from from Payton, it's basically
16:31saying, we love Courtland Sutton, but we asked him to do too much last year. We run him into the ground. We don't
16:36necessarily want to do that, but we still want Courtland Sutton to do Courtland Sutton things. And so I think there is a lot of different factors that
16:43have mainly Jaylen Waddle, but also Pat Bryant potentially replacing the old guy in Courtland Sutton just being the we're way past the young exciting stage of
16:55Courtland Sutton, and now we're kind of just waiting for that cliff to fall off, and he was never a player that could
17:01consistently string it together quite in the way that a Mike Evans did or the Davante Adams. Like he was never reach
17:07that level. And so like we're just kind of pushing him off as the old guy that's got replaced and is going to be falling
17:14back into this committee role within these receivers. Like they've always had the non number one receiver in a Sean Payton offense, which is should be
17:22Jaylen Waddle. Again, he's my wide receiver 20. I'm high on Jaylen Waddle, but I just see see Sutton being asked to
17:28do all the things he has traditionally been asked.
17:30>> Yeah, I think I've probably as time gone as time has gone on, maybe discounted Sutton because of the Pat Bryant factor
17:39because I actually Jeff don't think you know, this as a big Jaylen Waddle guy and I'm way ahead of consensus on Jaylen
17:45Waddle. I've I've been that way since he got traded to Denver both from a dynasty standpoint. So then that has to affect
17:50how you rank for redraft just to make everything make some sense here.
17:54I I've been just so ahead on Waddle and some of the pushback that you get to that is, well, Sean Payton always
17:59rotates his receivers. He rotates like he rotated guys like Troy Franklin and Marvin Mims. I'm sorry you guys like those dudes as prospects, but they're
18:05like fine NFL players. The way that he used those guys is not going to impact the way he uses Jaylen Waddle and I will be
18:12shocked if it does. Maybe I end up being wrong on that. I could I'm wrong all the time. So that could totally possible.
18:17But I think that's part of sort of then brings in the Pat Bryant of this all. I actually think it could be a pretty just
18:23straight three receiver set of, you know, Sutton is the X, Bryant is the power slot, and Waddle is that off-ball movement Z receiver, which is why I've
18:32been so high on Waddle to the point that I think he is going to get a lot of the easy button targets that even last year
18:38when the offense just cuz this is kind of who Bo Nix is a little bit, he plays within chaos and then you kind of end up
18:44not being able to get the ball consistently to your outside on-ball X receiver who runs the difficult routes against press man coverage and that's
18:52always going to be Courtland Sutton. I see Waddle getting a lot of those easy button layup targets and just I mean
18:58balling with those cuz I think he's a really, really good player. Obviously, he can get hurt. That's a way that Courtland Sutton can still value up
19:05here. So it honestly based on talking with you, Jeff, it sort of sounds like your approach to the Broncos is kind of
19:12my approach to the Bears, which is which which Bronco do you want to draft?
19:17>> Yes, like take take all of them.
19:21Absolutely. And I think that that's a really great point. And yeah, as as we were talking through Marvin Mims and as
19:26we're talking through Courtland Sutton, I think there's definitely parallels between those players on I think the involvement that we can see
19:32here. The other part of it, too, it's Marvin Mims from what I've read, heard, it doesn't seem like it's It seems like
19:40he's a very upset and his agent is very upset. And he might be a name that should be bandied about on the trade
19:46market potentially. And I think that the the big thing last year, what we saw out of this Denver offense, they couldn't
19:52run the ball. And so, some of that you could you can change your scheme or get better offensive line, but at the same
19:59level, when you've got Troy Franklin out there that is not going to block anybody. And you bring Pat Bryant in, who's potentially erasing a dude from
20:06the wide receiver position in the run game, that that can be a potential solution to allow you to actually be able to run the football. And so, I
20:14think that I'm at the same place that you you kind of just mentioned there of you could see a lot cleaner three wide
20:20receiver set out of this than what we've traditionally seen out of the Sean Payton offenses. And having the physicality that Sutton and Bryant can
20:27offer, they having the additional run blocking that they can give you, and then and Franklin kind of disappears, and maybe Marvin Mims gets traded, maybe
20:36whatever happens with Marvin Mims, but kind of gets deleted out of this offense. And to me, that seems like if Pat Bryant is being that good,
20:45I'm not just taking Courtland Sutton off the field if I still think Courtland Sutton can play, I'm just going to play my three best wide
20:52receivers.
20:52>> Yeah. Yeah, especially cuz this is a team that doesn't have the most like the deepest tight end room and not like a true real true inline
20:59guy. I mean, Adam Trautman's like a Sean Payton crony. Also, by the way, Sean Payton's not calling the plays for this
21:03team anymore. I mean, I I think we all imagine he will have his hand very or thumb pressed pretty hard on the on the
21:10on the scale here. At the same time, it sounds like the reason that Davis Webb was promoted, not just because, you
21:15know, other teams wanted to hire him, but he has really good relationship with Bo Nix. So, that's another factor that we haven't really taken into account
21:20here with talking about these Broncos players. But, to wrap this up here, one of the reasons I mentioned that there was going to be five players that you
21:27and I disagreed on. We're kind of cheating here with the fourth section cuz it's really kind of all three Packers receivers, but mainly the first
21:36two that there's a big gap on in our rankings. But, I'm pretty much higher on all of the Packers receivers. I'm about
21:4317 spots higher on Christian Watson, 12 spots lower. You're about 12 spots lower on Jayden Reed, and you're about five spots lower on Matthew Golden. Golden is
21:53the tough one cuz I just don't really have a strong take on Matthew Golden.
21:56I'm curious if you do.
21:57But, Reed is a guy that I've really been in on this year. And reason I'm not really drafting in that like Courtland
22:03Sutton aisle where he goes in Yahoo drafts cuz Jayden Reed goes not too long after. You know, there are other players
22:10in that same sort of bucket where I mean, man, like Tell me like the why why is the floor and ceiling case all that difference
22:17between these two guys? But, maybe I've misread this Packers situation here. So, can you kind of explain I guess why you're a little bit lower on all three
22:27of these Packers receivers? Cuz Jeff, to me and listeners of this show and and people that subscribe to this channel know I've joked that we've talked way
22:34too much about the Packers receivers over the last few years. Mostly cuz that's been this like annoying rotation that's hard to figure out. Seems like
22:41it's going to be consolidated this year.
22:42So, why are you kind of not into this this trio here this year?
22:48>> Well, because of the guy that's not mentioned here within this list, Tucker Kraft at tight end. And >> Fair.
22:54>> [laughter] >> I mean, that's a big part of it. And and I do think that I don't know where I land on Jordan
23:01Love, I guess it maybe part of it, but to some regard, I think that Jordan Love it's a little bit of the let Russ cook
23:07argument on where we are always like >> Yeah.
23:10>> more pass volume. Come on. Like and like wish casting that within the Packers, whereas I can't help but think that the
23:17Packers know Jordan Love very, very well and are putting Jordan Love in exactly the position that they're comfortable putting Jordan Love into. And so, I do
23:24think we tend to, especially in the fantasy community, we look at hyper efficiency, we look at those things and we just say, "Well, if you just move the
23:31slider over here, then then look how this is going to be." without recognizing that, I mean, Tony Pollard could be the most efficient running back
23:38when he's playing and Ezekiel Elliott comes up >> point.
23:41>> give every carry to Tony Pollard, all of a sudden he's averaging 3.8 yards per carry and you're wondering what happened
23:47to my efficient running back. And so, I think that I I probably have some trust in the Packers offensive scheme to be
23:54pushing Jordan Love to the limit of where they're comfortable of Jordan Love sitting. And so, I do think that there's maybe some wish casting on "Let Russ
24:02cook." It's like like Jordan Love, like just more passing volume. Look how good this could be if there's Jordan if there
24:08were more passing volume.
24:10The the Josh Jacobs injury might shade that quite a bit because if Josh Jacobs is not Josh Jacobs or that level of
24:16involvement and you do get forced into leaning on the pass volume there a little bit more. That that could change it, but I think the other part of it of
24:24I wish I knew what the beat writer was, but Dave real- Dave Clowney has beat writers come through on the Sirius show
24:31and he talked about one of the beat writers for the Packers mentioned that Tucker Kraft is is basically the the number one option
24:37>> Yeah.
24:37>> within that passing attack. And so, if you're going to have if you're going to kind of keep some control on where
24:43Jordan Love's passing volume and if overall numbers are going to end up and you're going to have Tucker Kraft as that top option there, then
24:50yes, we could get a lot more concentrated volume to Watson, to Reed, to Doubs than what we've ever gotten out of the receivers, and it could not
25:00really change where we end up on the receivers.
25:03>> Yeah, I think this is one where I'm maybe telling myself a story, and the projections are always going to kind
25:10of, you know, push against this because I do kind of buy Jeff that not only is this receiver room going to
25:16be consolidated between these three guys, and I think it will probably be a lot of what we saw in the first
25:21preseason game where in 12 personnel, it's Matthew Gonald at X and Christian Watson at Z, and then when they bring in
25:2711 personnel, you know, it's kind of going to blur a little bit. Like as as Matt LaFleur said when um he was asked
25:32about this when Jordan Love said, "Oh, Matthew Gonald's locked in at X." Matt LaFleur made the point like, "Well, our scheme is so multiple and guys move
25:39around that there these true position designations don't really exist." Which is true, by the way. Like that is the benefit of the scheme is that the lines
25:45get blurred here. But in 11 personnel, Reed's going to come on as the primary slot or off-ball Z receiver, and there's
25:50going to be some movement here. We know what that's going to look like. I But I think it will be consolidated between
25:55those three guys. I also think some of what we saw in the preseason does sort of back up what I've heard about this
26:00team, which is that they want to play more tempo, they want to live in 11 personnel more often because they have a
26:05great inline tight end in Tucker Kraft, who might be on a little bit of pitch count at first, but I think they're
26:10going to move away from some of those 12 personnel looks, heavier personnel packages cuz if they run out of 12 personnel and
26:17like, you know, Luke Musgrave who's banged up, it's like Josh Wiley the second tight end, they're fundamentally a worse team than if they have Jayden
26:23Reed on as the third receiver. So, I get the limitations for Reed as a guy who's not going to play in two receiver sets,
26:28yada yada, but I'm sort of telling myself a story here that we're going to see more tempo, we saw in the preseason,
26:34sounds like that's the report out of out of camps and just what I've heard about this team, which will really benefit all
26:39these receivers, but to your point of where maybe this is a good spot to like middle ground and split the difference
26:46between our two rankings, I'm sort of maybe baking in too much of that optimism where you're bringing some of the sort of just like, hey, let's
26:54remember how this has gone for multiple years now and sort of weigh that relative to where the market is. I guess
27:00it's if people are trying to split the difference here.
27:03>> Yeah, I think that that makes a ton of sense and and I think there's part of it too where I've I've seen the Packers long enough
27:11that would it shock you entirely if Savion Williams is like that's like would be the the most Packers thing if Savion Williams is like a dude or like
27:19we've unlocked Bo Melton. We figured out this random guy off the end of the roster because that's Bill Schroeder is coming out of here out of nowhere and
27:27and being involved in the passing attack and and as it set up for hyper efficiency and and having these three guys and oh by the way, we're the
27:35Packers and we just found out three guys that you've never even heard of. Some guy from Canada is coming in here and
27:40it's like I do it's it is kind of one of those of there are two teams where like it's just fundamentally in their DNA and
27:47it that always stick out in my mind and it's the Steelers and the Packers and it's like they just develop guys. They
27:53have guys that you off the radar that kind of come in and and I can't help but wonder a little bit
27:59there, but I mean I've got pretty high targets and and pretty consolidated attack here and and Watson's a player that it's bugged me for a little while
28:08of why is he so much lower in my numbers relative to where he's landing in the market.
28:13>> Yeah.
28:13>> It Do you think it's maybe it's the efficiency conversation of you for projecting efficiency for Christian Watson, just give him three
28:21more targets per game and look how good he's going to be, but how much does that stick? The other part of it when it when
28:27that kind of story came out about Golden being locked in on on Dobbs' role, like coming out of that of very much felt
28:34like they're just going to they're comfortable pushing Christian Christian Watson to the level that they're going to push Christian Watson to, but they
28:41don't want to push him beyond that because they know his history of availability, they know just everything in there. So, um I I do think that having Christian
28:49Watson as a top 20 plus wide receiver in fantasy feels like a layer of wishcasting that might be happening on onto that role of if he can ever just
28:58put it together. Um but yeah, I think that I again, I think there's there's absolutely reasons to be in the place that you're in with the Packers
29:07receivers.
29:07>> Well, I think the you know, to kind of just put a bow on this. One, it's um you know, how you know how this works.
29:13Like what we last saw of Christian Watson was him playing the best football of his entire career in the same calendar year in which he tore his ACL,
29:19which is insane and a huge accomplishment by him, but that's going to weigh very heavily on people's minds as they're ranking this year. And yeah,
29:26I mean, Watson is the 26th wide receiver off the board on Yahoo drafts. Uh I'm within that range, maybe a couple spots
29:32behind, which is why I've just been higher on Jayden Reed cuz I think like he's a guy that's really good player,
29:37pretty close honestly I think in talent to Watson. And just the last thing we saw of him was not as good where the
29:44last thing we saw of Watson was really good. So, that's I think weighing too much in the ADP mind, but I do think
29:49again, this is why I really wanted to have this conversation with you here, Jeff, because I think the where we started in the disagreements and where
29:54we finished was on two situations where I'm with the Bears and the Packers where I'm willing to kind of go against
30:02projections in my rankings and being like, "Hey, I can really see how this ends up working out for all these pass
30:08catchers who I think are all really good." And if these situations these variables kind of come to pass, man, these guys are going to be big hits
30:15where I think this is why it's like, "Hey, go out there and look at my rankings, but also look at Jeff Bell's
30:21rankings because he's sitting here saying like, 'Hey, let's remember how this goes historically'" and maybe again try to find the middle ground between
30:27these two things here. So, hopefully, Jeff, within our conversation on these disagreements, I think the people can find, you know, some middle grounds in
30:34in how to rank and view these players here. But really enjoyed this conversation. I've kept you longer than I I I would have and I apologize for
30:41that, but real quick, rapid fire to close here, Jeff. Who is one guy You can give me one guy, two guys, whatever,
30:47that people just aren't talking enough about at the wide receiver position while we admitted earlier that that's a stupid thing to say because everybody's
30:53talking all the time.
30:55>> Well, if you would have asked me this 2 weeks ago, I looked would have looked really smart. I would have said Caleb
30:59Douglas in Miami, but he's getting all the steam in the world. We I've been saying the same thing on on this We were
31:04we were in lockstep on this one here.
31:06>> So, yeah, maybe >> I think Jalen Tolbert in Dallas kind of locking into that wide receiver three role and and I think that
31:13from the [clears throat] what I've heard with the Cowboys, they don't particularly love Jake Ferguson's involvement in the in the blocking game
31:19and so if if they start to ease up a little bit on Jake Ferguson and Flurnoy really locks into that wide receiver
31:24three role and we've seen the Dallas offense be hyper productive in a way that they can be. Flurnoy's a player that I really liked coming in and I
31:32think he's a very versatile skillset that can allow CD Lamb to move out throughout formation.
31:38Offers a lot more as a complete receiver than the other options of having a Kavontae Turpin or other options that they move through there.
31:44>> Yeah, I I love this call out by you for everything that you just said there. One because it felt like that was like a
31:50June thing that people were talking about Ryan Flurnoy and now people have kind of stopped talking about him because it is he's definitely a guy
31:55that's tough to make the math work in redraft fantasy for sure, especially with these two receivers that are going to eat, but his involvement I CD Lamb
32:03took a career low percentage of snaps in the slot last year and I think a lot of that was cuz Jeff like their third
32:08receiver to start last year was Kavontae Turpin. You know, these guys like Jalen Tolbert who isn't even he was just getting lost by your boy Caleb Douglas
32:15down there in Miami for a starting receiver job right now.
32:18Ryan Flurnoy being who he is is going to allow Lamb I think to move around the formation formation more. I have 19
32:24spots, you know, subscribe to the website to check out my dynasty rankings tool, but like I have him 19 spots ahead
32:29of the dynasty market right now. Ryan Flurnoy cuz he's like just by a talented player that's attached to a really good
32:33ecosystem. So, Jeff and I are in lockstep on that.