The Biggest Game: This Trade Built the Team of the 90's
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Jun 30, 2026
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Episode Transcript
0:00Hey guys, the countdown to ESPN's first Super Bowl, Super Bowl 61 in Los Angeles is underway.
0:06And with that in mind, I want to tell you all about one of my new favorite podcasts, The Biggest Game hosted by Adam Schefter.
0:15Jeremy explores the best moments on and off the field, fascinating stories related to the game you haven't heard of, and all
0:23of the drama in the lead up to and the coverage of America's Biggest Game.
0:28Take a listen to one of my favorite episodes so far, the Jimmy Johnson draft that saved the Dallas Cowboys.
0:36You can find more episodes of The Biggest Game on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.
0:42Study and play! Come together on a Windows 11 PC!
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0:50Get the Unreal College Deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs.
0:56Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller.
1:05Learn more at windows.com slash student offer. While supplies last, ends June 30th.
1:09Terms at aka.ms slash college PC. Herschel went ahead and had an outstanding career and we were able to win some Super Bowls.
1:18That was former Dallas Cowboys head coach and pro football Hall of Famer Jimmy Johnson telling us that one of the most
1:26critical figures in the story of how the Cowboys won three Super Bowls in the 1990s wasn't named Troy, wasn't named Emmett, wasn't named Michael.
1:35He was in fact named Herschel Walker. Because trading Walker gave the Cowboys the draft capital they needed to become the team of the decade.
1:44I'm Jeremy Schaap and this is The Biggest Game.
1:47So we're joined by Jimmy Johnson and the first thing we really want to talk about, Jimmy, is that trade.
1:54Maybe the most famous trade in football history. Four years ago, the Cowboys paid Herschel $5 million to come to Dallas.
2:02On Thursday, they paid him over a million dollars to leave.
2:06Walker was traded to the Vikings for five players and as many as seven draft choices.
2:11How did how did the idea first pop into your head?
2:15Well, Jeremy, first of all, you know, everybody talks about the trade.
2:20You know, that was one trade of 51 trades that we made when I was in Dallas.
2:26And without question, it helped give us a jump start on our football team.
2:31But, you know, how it came about was, you know, when I got to Dallas, I just left University of Miami and a great football team.
2:40And I realized that there just really wasn't a lot of talent there.
2:45You know, Tom Landry is a great, great football coach.
2:49But he had had three straight losing seasons. And they were three, three and 13 his last year.
2:55And so, you know, I actually talked to our coaches.
2:59I said, you know, if we just take the best player available like most teams do back in back in those days,
3:07I said, you know, we're not going to be around here after about three years because there's no way we can turn this thing around.
3:16Just taking the best player available. So we need to jump started.
3:20You know, we need to do something to get draft picks.
3:24We knew the college players. And so we needed draft picks.
3:28And I said, what do we have that's of any value that people want?
3:33And in fact, I was talking to Al Davis a bunch during that time because he was trying to pick my brain about college players.
3:42And he said, he said, Jimmy, he said, you know, there's not a lot of teams that want anybody on your team.
3:50Jimmy was one tough, hard character. But you know what?
3:53That's exactly what this franchise needed. They needed somebody to come in and totally clean this house because after decades of being
4:01a wonderful franchise, they were headed downhill at warp speed.
4:05Well, how did they get so bad? How did how did it get so bad from what had been America's team?
4:12You know, in the Staubach era, in the early Danny White era, how how did the wheels come off?
4:19When you don't draft well, you start sinking. When you keep veterans too long.
4:24Jeremy, if there was one problem with Tom Landry, it was his loyalty to his players.
4:30He loved his players and and he would keep them sometimes a year, sometimes two years after they should have been gone from the team.
4:39I remember talking to his secretary once and she told me a story of it was cut down day.
4:46And Tom liked to talk to all the players who were being cut.
4:51And they were going to cut one veteran. And the guy went in and apparently started crying and begging Tom Landry for one more year in the league.
5:01And it was so difficult for Tom that after that conversation was over, he said to his secretary, I don't want to talk to anybody else today.
5:10He was just so moved because he loved players who'd accomplished things for him.
5:15That was Texas Radio Hall of Famer Norm Hitzkis.
5:19He pioneered morning sports talk radio in the Lone Star State and spent 48 years covering sports on air in Dallas before retiring in 2023.
5:28So Jimmy Johnson came to Dallas ready to wheel and deal.
5:32You know, right off the bat, I traded our starting quarterback Steve Pellore to Kansas City for a third round pick because
5:40I knew I was going to draft Troy Aikman.
5:43And then, you know, so we made a couple of trades and then I took Steve Walsh and I was calling around
5:51the league trying to trade Steve Walsh, which I eventually traded him to New Orleans for a one, two and a three.
5:59Those moves drew the attention of other teams in the league, hoping to pry away the Cowboys most valuable asset.
6:06And so I got a call from Ernie Acorsi.
6:09He was a general manager at Cleveland. He said, Jimmy, what would it take, you know, for you to trade Herschel Walker?
6:17And I said, well, you know, it's kind of like the band leader, a one, two and a three and a one, two and a three.
6:26And he said, well, I really had that line, that line.
6:30That's what you said to Ernie. That's pretty good.
6:34I was trying to be funny, but I wanted to make sure he knew that we weren't just going to give him away.
6:42Right. And, and so anyway, he said, well, we don't have a first round pick next year.
6:48But, you know, let me take a look at it.
6:52We can give you this linebacker that we had just drafted and a two and a three.
6:58And then maybe the year after that, a one, two and a three.
7:02And I said, well, I think that's, you know, that's pretty good here, Ernie.
7:07I said, let me give it some thought. He said, well, I've got to talk to Art Modell and we will call you tonight.
7:16And so I went into Jerry Jones. I said, Jerry, I got a pretty good trade here.
7:22I said, but you know what? You know, we may be able to better it if we'll call around.
7:29And I had been talking to Mike Lynn, the general manager at Minnesota about trading for Steve Walsh.
7:35But Steve is from Minnesota. And Mike said, well, you've been your quarterback in Miami.
7:41Yes. And so Mike says, well, I don't know that I can, you know, match that offer that you have from Cleveland.
7:49Let me give it some thought. And so I went to practice and then I got back from practice and my secretary,
7:57Barbara Goodman said, Coach, you've got a fax proposal on your desk.
8:01Back then we used the fax. And that was, that was high tech.
8:06I mean, that was cutting edge. So, so I looked at the fax and what they were offering was five players that
8:14they could do without, you know, all five of them had a flaw.
8:18And one draft pick, number one, two years down the road.
8:22And I looked at it and even though all five players were better than anything we had, I didn't want players.
8:30I wanted picks. And so I got to looking at it and the more I thought about it, you know, I thought
8:38that, well, hey, I might be able to parlay this thing.
8:42And, and then I told Jerry about what my thoughts were.
8:46And, and so we ended up making the trade.
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11:48players, plus Minnesota's first, second, and sixth round draft picks in the upcoming 1990 draft.
11:53Additionally, Jimmy Johnson was able to get Vikings GM Mike Lynn to agree to attach conditional picks to each player he sent to Dallas.
12:02The Mike Lynn assumption, the general manager who made the deal from the Vikings standpoint, he assumed that the Cowboys wanted to
12:10keep the players or most of those players. Jimmy Johnson, I'm sure you've already learned, he didn't, he could care less about any of those players.
12:19He wanted the picks. So that's the mistake was what we didn't understand was in the end, you're going to be trading,
12:27you know, your top three picks for the next three years, taking away any really chance to get better through the draft.
12:35That, that was what the deal actually ended up being.
12:39And I, it wasn't set up or wasn't reported.
12:42It wasn't presented to us that way. I can still remember being in Mike Lynn's office the day, either the day the
12:50deal was announced or the next day. And he looked at me at one point and he said, Hey, we made this deal because we agree with you.
13:00We need a running back. We need a big time running back.
13:04That's why we did this deal. And so in his own zeal, I think to deal with that issue, he may even
13:12lie to himself about what ultimately the steps that Jimmy Johnson, the Cowboys were going to take about what they were willing to keep.
13:21I don't think he expected that they were bored with the players and they were more interested in the draft picks.
13:28And that ultimately his, his drafts were going to be gutted for the next three years.
13:34Dan Barrero started covering Minnesota sports at KFAN in 1992.
13:38He also spent 17 years as a columnist at the star Tribune in Minneapolis.
13:43What did Jerry think about this? When you brought him the idea, we're going to get rid of the face of the franchise right now.
13:52The guy who's become the face of this franchise, one of the most famous football players on the planet.
13:59You know, he's kind of like Superman in pads.
14:02What did he think? Well, you know, you know, Jerry looked at, you know, and just like most people on the surface
14:10of the trade, most people, you know, looked at it.
14:13Well, we're getting five players and a first round pick, you know, a couple of years down the road.
14:20And I got ripped in the media because I wouldn't, I wouldn't tell anybody what I was going to do.
14:27I think this trade is crazy. Crazy. Okay. You can put me down for negative for sure.
14:33All right. Because? And it's because Dallas, it's just indicative of what's happened to Dallas ever since February.
14:40The fundamentals behind the trade were draft picks for the future to build for the Dallas Cowboys.
14:46But at the same time, at the very same time, have players involved that could contribute immediately in 1989 for the Dallas Cowboys.
14:54What do you guys remember about the Herschel Walker trade hearing the news that Herschel Walker had been traded?
15:01Yeah. Yeah. I just couldn't believe the Cowboys are giving away their best player.
15:06And, and, and Jeremy, I want to make clear, make clear here.
15:11I was not a Cowboy fan back then. I was a Steelers fan.
15:15So when they, and anyone else who played the Cowboys, that's how much I hated the Cowboys back then.
15:22But when they gave away their best player, I, I rejoice.
15:26I was happy because I felt like, okay, well, there's, they're dumb enough to give away their best player.
15:33Now they're going to go into misery and not have a guy that can fill that role.
15:39But, you know, for them, I thought it was a, I thought the Minnesota Vikings at that time had won that trade hands down.
15:48Because the Cowboys had given up their best player.
15:51Darren Woodson was a second round draft pick by the Cowboys in 1992.
15:56A three-time all pro, a Super Bowl champion. He spent all 12 years of his career with Dallas.
16:02Having witnessed for just a little while, what Jimmy Johnson was like, I'd have put nothing past him.
16:09Honestly, nothing. That, now that trade did surprise me.
16:12But, he knew he was coaching a pig. Honestly.
16:15And he had to do something about it. And there was this legendary story about Jimmy and some of his assistants who
16:23go for early morning jogs through Valley Ranch. And at Valley Ranch, by the way, which is now no longer the Cowboys home.
16:31The streets were named after famous Cowboy players. There's Dorsett and White and Staubach.
16:36And, well, as they went along, Jimmy was saying how bad the club was.
16:41And then said to his assistants that there had been some talk of Al Davis wanting to make a trade for Michael Irvin.
16:50And that didn't make any sense because you were swapping a good young player for another good young player.
16:56And that was a good thing. And that was a good thing.
17:01And that was a good thing. And I think it was Jerry Rome, his assistant coach at the time, who said, if
17:09we trade Herschel Walker, we may not win a game.
17:12And Jimmy said, we may not win a game anyway.
17:16Not only were the Cowboys 0-5 when they traded Walker, but they had lost 16 of 17 dating to the previous season.
17:24They would end up going 1-15 in 1989. And he made this stunning trade that I know Ron didn't understand it.
17:31I didn't understand it. Nobody understood it. None of the columnists understood it.
17:36None of the TV guys understood it. None of the national guys understood it.
17:41One person understood the trade. Again, Norm Hitzkis, the Texas Radio Hall of Famer.
17:46I got it wrong. And here's what's interesting. I was trying to refresh my memory on a few things.
17:53And what I'd forgotten was that when the trade went down among Dallas media giants, like a former colleague of mine at
18:01the Dallas Morning News, Randy Galloway, it was savaged.
18:04It was ripped. It was mocked and ridiculed on that end.
18:08And similarly, my reaction was, hell of a deal.
18:11Because at the time, the Vikings were identified. The Vikings had all pro talent all over the roster.
18:18They really did. And the feeling was, the one thing they lacked was a big time running back.
18:24I'm telling people, this is, this guy's still got it.
18:28He can still do it. So I'm also celebrating the deal on the front end.
18:33Again, Dan Barrero, who's been covering sports in Minnesota since the early 90s.
18:38The Vikings didn't understand it either. No! That was the key.
18:42Mike. That they didn't get it. Mike Lynn was stripped naked on Main Street at noon.
18:48The initial impression was the shock of it. It was so, especially in that era, there weren't trays like that being made.
18:56And certainly not for superstar players. That's why it was such a long shot in terms of how it's going to work out.
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20:32Jimmy Johnson was on the verge of getting exactly what he wanted, those conditional picks attached to each player.
20:39But there was still one more hurdle to clear with Herschel.
20:43Herschel Walker didn't like the idea of going to Minnesota.
20:47And so his agent and Herschel said, hey, we're going to retire.
20:51Now, I don't think he would have retired. But he had that leverage.
20:56He could threaten to do so. Jerry actually paid him some money to facilitate the trade.
21:02More than a million bucks. Yeah. So that we could go ahead and make the trade before agreeing to the deal.
21:09Walker had to be coerced a bit to the tune of at least a million dollars to leave town.
21:16The Cowboys are going nowhere this season while the Vikings feel the future is now.
21:21It had better be because they gave away the future today.
21:25Did you pack his suitcase for him, Jimmy? Is that true?
21:29And take him to the airport? Actually, I've done a function or two with Herschel.
21:35You know, since then. And we had laughs about it in one thing or another.
21:40But, hey, it worked out for everybody. Herschel went ahead and had an outstanding career.
21:46And we were able to win some Super Bowls.
21:49This is a successful program here. And I'm going to come in and I hope my talent could add to it.
21:56With the trade in the books, Jimmy's poison pill was ready.
22:00You know, we brought in those players and I had no intention of keeping them because I wanted the draft picks.
22:08Because every all five players were tied to a pick.
22:11If I kept the player. Day one. That was what you were after were the picks.
22:17The players were incidental. In fact, Jeremy, it was it was funny because, see, if I kept all five players, I'd only get one pick.
22:26I wouldn't get any of the picks other than that one that they offered.
22:31And so, you know, two or three of the players were good enough to start for us right away.
22:38And I wouldn't let day one step my defensive coordinator starting.
22:42Because because I said, Dave, I don't want the coaches to fall in love with them.
22:48I don't want the fans to fall in love with them because there's a good chance that I'm going to cut them at the end of the year.
22:58And you don't want to get hurt and then you can't trade them.
23:03And, you know, you know, you know, Jesse, we had David Howard, who was a pretty good little linebacker and Jesse Solomon, a decent linebacker.
23:12Isaac Holt was an older defensive back. Right off the bat, I cut the defensive tackle, the young defensive tackle.
23:19I didn't like his attitude. So I ended up getting that pick.
23:23And then we moved Darren Nelson to San Diego.
23:26And so I got that pick. But anyway, it got down toward the end of the year.
23:32And I called Mike Lynn. I said, Mike, I said, listen, I'm going to cut all these players.
23:39And so I'm going to get all your picks.
23:42And I said, why don't we work out a deal?
23:46I'll throw you a, you know, a late pick if you'll let me keep these guys.
23:52Well, he's, you know, he got all upset. He said, hey, we're taking a bath around here.
23:58Everybody's upset that I made the trade, you know, on and on and on.
24:03And so he hung up on me. So I called Jerry Burns, you know, the coach.
24:08I said, Jerry, I'm trying to work out a deal with Mike Lynn.
24:13But he won't talk to me about it. He said, hey, that's Mike.
24:18He was that perturbed. Oh, yeah, because I told him we were going to cut him.
24:24Right. And he thought for sure since all five were better than anything I had, that I'd keep all five.
24:31So he'd only have to keep. Did he think that you had hoodwinked him?
24:36Or that you had come to this conclusion gradually?
24:39Yeah, I mean, it, you know, it was a situation where none of them would return my calls.
24:46And I kept telling them, I'm going to cut these players if you don't return my calls.
24:52Mike Lynn wouldn't call you back. Jerry Burns wouldn't call you back.
24:56They wouldn't talk to me. So I sent a certified letter to the league office saying, I am going to be releasing all these players.
25:05And I also sent a copy to Mike Lynn.
25:08I'm releasing these players unless Minnesota voids, you know, voids the release.
25:13So Mike called. He said, you got me over a barrel.
25:17And I said, listen, you know, I'd like to keep Isaac Holt and Solomon and Howard.
25:22I'll kick you back. And, you know, and I gave him a couple of late picks.
25:28Uh, you know, none of those play, all those players were just kind of transition guys.
25:34They, you know, they were not factors in us winning Super Bowls.
25:38But by doing that, I was able to keep all the picks.
25:42And then I had a couple of players that helped us, you know, for a year or two before we started winning Super Bowls.
25:51But if you are Mike Lynn, and not to make this personal, but I mean, this has to constitute some kind of professional malpractice.
26:00Not to see what was really going on here, what the real incentive and motivation was for the Cowboys.
26:07He never recovered from it. You're exactly right. It's very true.
26:11Now you can make the argument that as one sided as the deal appeared, if Walker stars for the Vikings, leads them
26:18to one or two Super Bowls in the interim before Dallas puts all the pieces together for all the draft picks.
26:26But to this day, it would be viewed differently.
26:29It would still be viewed as a deal that was great for Dallas.
26:34But you say, well, you know what? But in the short run, with all that abundant talent at a number of positions
26:42that the Vikings had, they got the next step or they took the last step.
26:47And you could say that might well be worth three ones, three twos and three threes.
26:53All those picks would make it possible for Jimmy Johnson to build the team he wanted, because it's hard to track down
27:01what the Cowboys did with all those picks. Okay.
27:04Right. Because they combined this pick for that pick and moved up here and move this pick over there.
27:11But if they made dozens of trades, more than 50 trades where nobody else was making trades at all at that.
27:19Exactly right. In fact, Jimmy's line was correct that in five years in the NFL, he made 51 trades and he didn't
27:26think the rest of the league total had made 50 trades.
27:30Yeah. And it's crazy. But Jimmy had this theory.
27:34He didn't have to win every trade. Jimmy's theory was if he wins 60% of the trades, he's doing great.
27:41But if you take all those draft choices and combine here and there, that haul for Herschel Walker included Emmitt Smith.
27:48Dallas selects Emmitt Smith running back from Florida. Russell Maryland.
27:52The Dallas Cowboys have selected Russell Maryland. The defensive tackle.
27:56Darren Woodson. Dallas's selection on a choice from New England is Darren Woodson.
28:00But you talk about core people. But Jimmy was good at that.
28:05The way I looked at it, you know, I didn't know any better.
28:09But I was my own personnel director when I was in college, you know, when I was recruiting for University of Miami or, you know, for Oklahoma State.
28:19And I looked at it. It was kind of funny.
28:23The very first draft, I went in the room and I was running the draft.
28:28And so I was in the second round. And, you know, first round, you know, there wasn't any doubt we were going
28:36to take Troy Aikman, even though that was a great draft.
28:40There was a lot of good players there. In the second round, I wanted Darryl Johnston.
28:46And, you know, Darryl wasn't going to be a high pick in the second round.
28:51Yeah, fullback from Syracuse. Yeah. But, you know, like our first four picks, we had four academic All-Americans.
28:58And so, you know, I wanted smart people and I knew Darryl was a really intelligent guy.
29:04A lot of these players, we had played against them or I'd recruited them, you know, on and on.
29:11So, you know, I looked at it. I didn't want to take Darryl in the top of the second round.
29:18So I started calling around and then got a hold of Al Davis.
29:23And Al says, OK, we'll swap. You know, we'll swap number twos and we'll give you our three.
29:29And so I said, fine. You know, OK, let's do it.
29:33And Tex Schramm looked at me, says, you made a trade with Al Davis?
29:38He said, we don't even talk to Al Davis.
29:41I said, I don't know any better. And so they went into the third round.
29:47And I knew that there was an offensive guard there at Pitt that we had played against, Miami against Pittsburgh.
29:54And, you know, I looked at him. I said, you know, this this guy might be an offensive center.
30:01And I talked to my offensive line coach, Tony Wise.
30:05I said, can you make him into a center?
30:08Because he only about 245 pounds. He said, yeah.
30:11And so I ended up taking Mark Stevnoski in the third round.
30:15He was an academic All-American. And so, you know, that's why I needed picks because I knew these college players.
30:23But that's how we were able to build a team.
30:26So we wanted to build it through the draft, you know, not buying trades.
30:31Well, you know, the second year of the Cowboys draft.
30:35I mean, Jimmy had accomplished. He'd gotten this core of young guys together.
30:39And he had all these draft picks. And the second year he had pick 21, as I recall.
30:46And Jimmy desperately needed defensive help. So he and his staff put this plan together for the draft.
30:52They wanted to get James Francis, the linebacker from Baylor.
30:56And their fallback plan was to either get Lamar Latham, the linebacker from Houston, or Ray Agnew, the defensive tackle from NC State.
31:04And they also liked Cortez Kennedy. But then who didn't?
31:08He went number three in the draft. Okay. So, so the draft starts to unfold.
31:13And Kennedy goes off the board. And shockingly, Agnew goes off the board.
31:18Way, way earlier than the Cowboys thought. So the Cowboys start focusing on James Francis.
31:23And they try to trade with Chicago. And then they try to trade with Cincinnati and the Raiders.
31:30I don't know what other. And all those, those teams made their choices and off the board.
31:36They went Francis off the board. And so they, they talked to Houston.
31:41And because the one guy left on their board was Lamar Latham.
31:45And Houston decided, no, we're going to take Lamar Latham.
31:49And so the Cowboys suddenly, I think Jeremy, they had a list of seven defensive players.
31:54They would have liked in the first round. And they said, no, they're not going to take them off the board.
32:02But they get to their pick at 17 and none of them are left on the board.
32:08So they're shocked. They're, they don't quite know what to do.
32:12And then, I don't know who it was in the draft room says, wait a minute.
32:18The number four player on our board is still available.
32:21Emmett Smith. Not a defensive player. No, not a defensive player.
32:25But the Cowboys had just made a trade to get this guy Terrence Flagler, a running back from San Francisco, whom they
32:33liked by the way, and had some talent. But it also turns out he had some personal problems.
32:40So Joe Brodsky is the running backs coach. So Brodsky's campaigning for Emmett Smith.
32:45So Jimmy calls him aside and said, OK, Emmett Smith and Terrence Flagler.
32:49And Brodsky says, Emmett Smith will take your breath away.
32:53Terrence Flagler will take your breath away. But with Flagler, you'll get it back.
32:58What a great line. What a great line. And so they make this trade with Pittsburgh to move up four places.
33:06They were 21. They moved to 17. They take Emmett Smith.
33:10And Ron, as they say, the rest is history.
33:13For Emmett Smith to be there at this time was a real thrill for us.
33:18We wanted to improve our position at running back.
33:21And he's a great back. We felt like that he was as good a player as there was in the draft.
33:29And we just could not let him stay there.
33:32So we made our efforts to trade up a couple of times.
33:37And we finally got to the point that we pulled off a deal and we got the player that we wanted.
33:44You know, sometimes decisions are made and you have to play it out and wait it out because the initial response is going to be the initial responses.
33:54What are you doing? We said the same thing about the Micah Parsons trade this year early in the season.
34:01Jerry made the decision to get rid of his best player, probably his best player overall on the team.
34:08And he did it with such, with swiftness and confidence.
34:12And that's the way Jimmy ran the team back then.
34:15Jimmy made a lot of decisions that were very, that were, you know, thought out, was, you know, surprising.
34:22But he stuck to his guns and he was willing to make those decisions.
34:27And he was willing to take on all the negativity that came along with it.
34:33That was just Jimmy Johnson. You know, he was, he was a wilder.
34:37He was a gambler man half the time, but he usually gambled right when he had to do it.
34:44But he just, he, he was willing to go through the fire and all the criticism.
34:50And that's what you need to make these types of big decisions.
34:54You need to be a, you need to have, you know, stealing, you know, ice in your, ice in your veins and
35:02be willing to deal, deal with all that negative response.
35:06And I think that's the organization led by Jerry and Jimmy.
35:10Hey, they were willing to roll the dice man.
35:13And they hit right. That's Darren Woodson, three times Superbowl champion with the Cowboys.
35:18It's not like, I don't think they wanted to give Herschel up.
35:22They, they had just so many needs. And you hear this a lot now that, you know, we have a great running
35:30back, but we're not winning in games with him.
35:34And so we can't win with him. Um, not like we want to win.
35:39He's our only asset is the way Jimmy looked at it.
35:43And so he turned that asset into more assets.
35:46I don't know that they were on the level of Herschel.
35:50Uh, but there were certain, you know, let's say when you got four or five, you know, players, and then you get
35:58the momentum, you know, from that trade that kind of launches you, let's say, once you get that head of steam going, you're unstoppable.
36:06Again, Ron St. Angelo, the Dallas Cowboys official photographer for more than 30 years.
36:11It's one of those moments, right? That's remembered, not just because of the way it worked out, but because everybody got it wrong in the moment.
36:21Right. And, you know, people made fun of Jimmy Johnson for calling it, you know, the great train robbery.
36:28Right. Um, they, I think the question is in the press guy, right?
36:32He calls it like, this is going to be the great train robbery.
36:37And some, and some, you know, smart ass, like you or me pops up and says for who for which team?
36:45Yes. Right. If you're, if you're in our business long enough, uh, and if you're honest, you, you will actually probably doesn't
36:52take long to figure out God, we're stupid sometimes.
36:56And we, we come on with all this bravado that we know, and this is ridiculous.
37:01And how can you even consider this sort of a deal?
37:05Or we come at it the other way, which I did.
37:09Um, and said, hell, this is, this is going to be worth it.
37:14This is exactly the missing piece. This team needs either way, depending on what team we're talking about.
37:21What I say is the players and the coaches and the general managers always have the last word.
37:27They really do. We can pontificate all we want.
37:30We can project and think we know at any moment what we want on the basis of the climate then, or what
37:38we thought the conditions were at that point. But in the end they get to decide, right?
37:44How this thing works out. And Jimmy Johnson decided not just by making the deal, but by making such astute draft decisions.
37:52And that pretty much changed the NFL landscape through that period of time.
37:57The Dallas Cowboys went one in 15 in 1989, the season they traded Herschel Walker.
38:02Three years later, they were Super Bowl champions. And the rest is football history.
38:07And the only thing else I got to say is how about them Cowboys?
38:12Be sure to join us next week for a new episode as we continue to explore the history of the biggest game.
38:20Every week we dive deep into the story of the Super Bowl.
38:25It's history, the biggest plays, the greatest performances, the drama on the field and off, the commercials, the business of the Super
38:33Bowl, the halftime shows, all of it. As we barrel towards Super Bowl 61 on February 14, 2027, which will be the
38:40first ever on our home network ESPN.