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8 League-Winning ADP Values I Fantasy Football (Pat Kerrane)

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this video and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 4 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 11, 2026
Published
Sat, July 11, 2026
65
Player insights
31
Players mentioned
Topics
Bucky IrvingDavid NjokuHarold FanninJaylen WaddleCourtland SuttonTetairoa McMillanKenneth GainwellDeVonta SmithJayden DanielsA.J. BrownBryce YoungChris RodriguezCole KmetColston Loveland
Player analysis

Player insights

65

A.J. Brown

PositiveRole0:16

Positioned as the primary wide receiver in Eagles offense with potential for Lemon to become a 1B option.

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Bryce Young

NegativeRole0:03

Bryce Young is being underutilized by the Panthers offense, with the team not showing willingness to give him more volume or allow him to freelance and make plays, which is limiting the offense's potential.

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Bucky Irving

PositiveValue0:31

Bucky Irving has dropped to running back 25 and mid-sixth round ADP (6.06), converging with Kenneth Gainwell's price after falling from earlier season expectations, creating a potential value opportunity.

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PositiveProjection0:31

Irving was really good out of the gate last year with outstanding usage, and despite dealing with injuries and off-field issues, he's now sitting at a price point that may represent good value for his second season.

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PositiveValue0:32

Irving is falling to the middle of the sixth round (6.6 ADP in FFPC) and represents a value opportunity despite second-year rushing efficiency concerns, as he remains the favorite to be the starting running back and has elite receiving metrics.

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NegativeProjection0:33

Irving's rushing efficiency in his second year was quite bad according to advanced metrics on NextGen, a significant disappointment compared to his strong rookie rushing performance.

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PositiveRole0:33

Irving's poor rushing efficiency last year was partly attributable to the Buccaneers' offensive line being an absolute mess early in the season with multiple starters out of position, which eventually improved but after Irving was injured.

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PositiveUsage0:35

Irving was RB5 in ESPN's receiver metric over the last two seasons and RB5 last year as well, demonstrating consistent elite receiving production.

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PositiveUsage0:35

Irving had 98 yards after catch over expected, which was eighth best among running backs in only 10 games played, suggesting he would have been among league leaders in a full season.

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PositiveBreakout0:35

Irving flashed as a strong receiver in his rookie season and followed that up with actually a strong receiving performance in his second year, demonstrating consistent elite receiving ability.

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PositiveProjection0:35

Irving has rushing upside if he can regain the rushing efficiency he had as a rookie, and the Buccaneers' offensive line should be better this year than it was to start last year.

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PositiveValue0:36

Despite receiving and rushing risks, Irving is worth buying at his current ADP as he's falling behind running backs like DeAndre Swift, whom the analyst believes Irving is probably still better than.

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PositiveValue0:37

Irving represents a league-winning ADP value in the late fifth/sixth round despite concerns about Kenny Gainwell and Tucker capping his receiving upside; the discount is enough to embrace the risk given his young age, proven receiving ability through two years, and solid offensive context.

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PositiveProjection0:42

Irving has a high ceiling as a player with good receiving ability and good enough running ability on a good offense, though the situation makes it harder to see the ceiling breaking his way.

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PositiveProjection0:42

Irving has a high ceiling as a player with good receiving and running ability, but situation concerns limit his ultimate ceiling; he's a round four pick with thinner margins for reaching his ceiling.

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Chris Rodriguez

NegativeRole0:40

Rodriguez is likely to have a role in the backfield, adding to the depth chart concerns for Tutin.

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Cole Kmet

PositiveDepth Chart0:25

Kmet is mentioned as part of the upper-middle-class tight end tier alongside Pitts, Craft, and Leaporta where there is perceived value in tight end premium formats.

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Colston Loveland

PositiveProjection0:21

Loveland is being drafted at the end of the second round and shows second-year upside as a rookie tight end, though there are questions about why his playing time hasn't increased more given his 10th overall draft pedigree.

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Courtland Sutton

NegativeProjection0:09

Sutton had a number of red flags last year efficiency-wise, with concerns about his role as the offense appeared to be tilting toward Troy Franklin as the potential number one receiver.

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NegativeBust0:09

Sutton had his least efficient season in a long time at 1.53 yards per route run and showed red flags in efficiency metrics. The Broncos' acquisition of Jaylen Waddle signals they are moving away from Sutton as their primary receiver.

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NegativeValue0:10

Sutton is a fade at his current ADP cost; he should be going lower than where he is currently being drafted.

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PositiveRole0:11

Sutton's target share dropped significantly by 4% and his first-read rate was way down in 2024 versus 2025, indicating a diminished role in the offense.

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D'Andre Swift

PositiveRole0:36

Swift is not a workhorse but rather a good receiver who will probably be a 1A back on his team, a profile similar to Bucky Irving's.

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Dak Prescott

PositiveValue0:47

Prescott is very cheap this year with plenty of upside available late at the quarterback position.

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David Njoku

NegativeDepth Chart0:21

Njoku was completely displaced by rookie Harold Fannon Jr. last season and has since moved to the Los Angeles Chargers, ending his tenure with his previous team.

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PositiveValue0:23

Njoku is being undervalued despite demonstrating elite target-earning ability as a prospect and in his rookie season. He's available in the fifth or sixth round but has upside to be the clear number one target on the Browns, which is atypical for a tight end at that ADP.

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PositiveRole0:24

Njoku has established himself as the number one target on the Browns and should maintain that role even with the addition of rookie receivers Conpsion and Boston.

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PositiveProjection0:24

Njoku projects for a really strong role with over 100 targets and has upside to be the clear number one target on his team with tight end premium scoring (1.5 PPR).

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PositiveSleeper0:25

Njoku is a strong bet on target earning ability at an ADP where you'd typically be fading tight ends, similar to where Carson Loveland and Tyler Warren were being drafted.

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DeVonta Smith

PositiveRole0:13

Smith's role in the Eagles offense over the previous two seasons is being used as a comparable for what Malik Lemon's role could look like in Philadelphia.

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PositiveRole0:16

Currently positioned as a 1B to AJ Brown, with potential for Lemon to become a 1B to Smith by season's end.

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Harold Fannin

PositiveProjection0:20

As a 21-year-old rookie, Fannon Jr. was the youngest tight end in football and completely displaced David Njoku, and he looks like the odds-on favorite to lead his team in targets again this season.

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PositiveValue0:20

Fannon Jr. presents exceptional value in round six of tight end premium formats like FFPC, offering second-year upside comparable to higher-drafted tight ends like Colston Loveland and Tyler Warren.

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PositiveRole0:22

Fannon Jr. earned his role as a number one target in the offense as a rookie tight end, beating out the established pass-catching David Njoku, demonstrating he can operate as a primary receiving option.

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PositiveProjection0:23

Despite being undersized and not a dominant run blocker, Fannon Jr. operates more like a Mark Andrews type tight end who splits into the slot, and his strong rookie production signals he can sustain high target volume.

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PositiveProjection0:23

Fannon Jr. had the best yards per route run (3.77) ever recorded by a college tight end, making him the most productive and efficient college tight end ever, and he has already proven this translates to the NFL.

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Isaiah Likely

PositiveDepth Chart0:26

Likely is mentioned as having moved up towards the upper-middle-class tight end tier in ADP alongside KD.

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J.K. Dobbins

PositiveRole0:09

Dobbins is the Broncos' lead runner, but the offense is expected to be pass-heavy with spread concepts and pace rather than built on a ground-and-pound philosophy.

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Jadarian Price

PositiveProjection0:39

Price is mentioned as the next running back off the board in the late fifth/sixth round range with a two-down profile.

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Jalen Hurts

PositiveRole14:09

Mentioned in context of Eagles offense and wide receiver depth chart positioning.

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Jayden Daniels

PositiveValue0:43

Daniels has fallen from being drafted in the 3-4 turn last year to the 8th round this year, creating significant value; he has rushing upside and could benefit from potential receiver additions like Debo or Diggs.

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PositiveProjection0:45

Daniels earned strong draft capital as a rookie and the analyst regrets not being higher on him initially; he's now getting a second opportunity to be aggressive about him despite injury concerns.

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Jaylen Waddle

PositiveValue0:06

Waddle is a huge value at WR23 ADP on Underdog, going behind older receivers lacking his upside. He's a proven first-round talent entering year six with 2.07 career yards per route run, elite efficiency, and versatility (played 60% slot as rookie with 1,000+ yards, now outside), similar to Stefon Diggs' trajectory.

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PositiveRole0:08

Waddle has the ability to win downfield and get targets underneath as a yak producer, with versatility to play both slot and outside receiver positions, entering an offense that should be pass-heavy with spread concepts and pace.

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PositiveValue0:11

Waddle is a smash at his current ADP and could go 10 picks earlier without concern; he represents strong value despite being drafted around WR20.

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PositiveRole0:11

Waddle is positioned to dominate targets in the Broncos' pass-heavy offense and should see a significant gap widen between him and Sutton as the offseason progresses.

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PositiveValue0:12

Multiple expert analysts including Derrick Brown (WR10), Jacob Gibbs, and Nelson Souza are bullish on Waddle, yet actual drafters are not pushing his ADP up, creating continued value.

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Jaylen Warren

NegativeRole0:39

Warren is now dealing with being in a split and has Rico Dow to contend with on an offense the analyst is not especially excited about.

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Justin Herbert

PositiveValue0:46

Herbert is described as a really awesome upside swing at quarterback and is quite cheap in current drafts.

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Kenneth Gainwell

PositiveValue0:31

Kenneth Gainwell has risen to running back 33 with occasional seventh round appearances, converging with Bucky Irving's ADP after a period where he was considered more appealing.

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NegativeValue0:32

Gainwell has risen to running back 33 with occasional seventh round appearances, and his addition to the Buccaneers is concerning as it could cap Irving's receiving upside.

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NegativeRole0:37

Gainwell is viewed as a problem that could cap Irving's receiving upside, though he was the 1B back last year with 87 targets while Warren had 43, creating a split in receiving work.

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Kyle Pitts

PositiveValue0:26

Pitts is part of the upper-middle-class tight end tier where there is perceived value in tight end premium formats, alongside Craft, Leaporta, and Njoku.

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Malik Nabers

PositiveValue0:13

Mentioned as a first-round wide receiver with higher ADP than Lemon in FFPC drafts.

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Mecole Hardman

PositiveUsage0:05

Mecole Hardman is mentioned as one of the hyped receivers alongside Luther Burks, but McMillan outproduced both in his rookie season with 122 targets and 1,400 receiving yards.

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Pat Bryant

PositiveRole0:10

Bryant started to get worked in more for the Broncos down the stretch, indicating increased involvement in the offense.

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Patrick Mahomes

PositiveValue0:46

Mahomes is going around the 11th round and has been absolutely dominant in FFPC scoring, making his current ADP a great value.

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Tetairoa McMillan

PositiveValue0:00

Pat Kerrane is bullish on McMillan at his current ADP in the fourth round, viewing him as an elite prospect with strong rookie production (1.85 yards per route run, 600 routes) being undervalued due to Bryce Young concerns. He sees McMillan as having ceiling upside to potentially transform the Panthers offense at a discount relative to his talent level.

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PositiveProjection0:02

McMillan had 1.85 yards per route run as a rookie, ran almost 600 routes including playoffs, and is a traditional outside wide receiver who earns targets downfield and excels after the catch, comparable to Michael Pitman with more upside.

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PositiveRole0:05

McMillan is the clear number one receiver on the Panthers with no significant competition from other receivers or tight ends, giving him a strong target moat over Jaylen Coker and Chris Brazzle.

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PositiveUsage0:05

McMillan led his receiver group with 122 targets, 70 catches, 1,400 receiving yards, and a 25% target share in his rookie season, outproducing other hyped receivers like Mecole Hardman and Luther Burks.

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Tony Pollard

NegativeBust0:39

Pollard has split concerns and the analyst is much more concerned about how much he has left in the tank.

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Travis Hunter

PositiveProjection0:02

Pat Kerrane had Travis Hunter ranked as the number one wide receiver in his pre-draft rankings because he was getting nervous about where Tedaroa McMillan was going to be selected.

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Troy Franklin

PositiveRole0:10

Franklin showed flashes as a potential number one receiver for the Broncos at times during the season but was unable to take away the role from Sutton permanently.

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Tyler Warren

PositiveProjection0:21

Tyler Warren is going in the early third round and showed a lot as a rookie tight end with second-year upside, though his production hasn't yet matched the immediate impact of Fannon Jr.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

561
0:05Who are the best values in 2026 fantasy football drafts when we look at ADP and the values that these players present?
0:12I'm Theo Griminger, lead fantasy analyst right here at Rotoire, joined today by Pat Karine of Legendary Upside. Pat's a super super sharp drafter with a ton of
0:23receipts to prove it. You might have won a best ball contest here or there, Pat.
0:27uh maybe big baseball contests here or there. And you're also doing content for specifically recently the FFPC main event. Pat released his FFPC main event
0:37rankings over at Legendary Upside. We're going to talk about Legendary Upside a little later, but let's get it going right from the top. We've heard a lot of
0:45people fading Tedaroa McMillan this year sort of at cost talking about how he's just steamed up so much and I have
0:53worries about Bryce Young, but you're sort of taking an opposite approach. You were on Ted McMillan at his current ADP cost.
1:02>> Yeah. And so I'm drafting a ton of baseball teams right now and I I like him in best. Um, I I like him more in
1:09reddraft where I think you you know the the issues that I have with McMillan are really about his team and not him. And
1:21uh, you know, I think in in baseball, there's other guys kind of in the same range where you're like, you know,
1:28if everything kind of goes the way we expect, they they'll probably outscore McMillan. And so he's like a fine pick, but it's not like, oh man, I got to I
1:36got to jam McMillan. But when I I think through the reddraft element more and, you know, guys I want in the main event
1:44and, you know, in the big gorilla and stuff, it's really who's got that additional ceiling to like unlock another level to their game that could
1:55actually like change the gravity of the offense that he's in. And and McMillan has that level of upside. like he was an
2:03he was an excellent prospect. I think an underrated prospect in some ways because we got this like BS around the draft,
2:11you know, that people it's like, oh, Golden's actually the wide receiver one for teams and McMillan's like his commitment to football's not there and
2:19all this stuff. And then he goes eighth overall. It's clear that if the Panthers had passed on him, he would have gone,
2:27you know, ahead of Golden anyway. And so it's like all kind of like a smoke screen thing. And I think people we got
2:34like even me like I had Travis Hunter as the number one wide receiver in my rankings pre-draft because I was like
2:39starting to get nervous about where McMillan was going to go. Are we talking about like a late first round pick at
2:44this point? You know, falling into the 20s anyway. No, we're talking about the eighth overall pick. The NFL was very in
2:49on him and he had a really good rookie season. 1.85 yards per route run is strong stuff for a rookie, especially
2:56when he's running a ton of routes. ran almost 600 routes including the playoffs. So he's I mean and and the other thing about him is like he's a
3:04traditional outside wide receiver. He earns targets downfield. He's actually good after the catch. Um so like like Michael Pitman with a lot more juice was
3:13was kind of like one of my comps for him and I'm like yeah that's kind he earns targets outside. He's quarterback
3:18friendly but he actually can like add after the catch and be more of a playmaker.
3:23uh the the film evaluations that I've I've read on uh McMillan have been pretty strong from his rookie season. So everything about this secondyear profile
3:33is there and he's going in the fourth round. So I'm like, okay, I I get an elite prospect, maybe not like Jamar
3:40Chase level, but very strong and I get a really strong rookie season that reinforces a lot about what we liked in
3:49his profile coming in. And why am I getting him in the fourth? Cuz Bryce Young cuz no one wants to draft Bryce
3:56Young's guy. That's it. But like Bryce Young actually like the the offense could work pretty well if they let Bryce Young chuck it a little bit
4:06more. Like they he's being I think Young could be more productive if they actually allowed him to kind of freelance, make some plays, and put a
4:15little more volume on his plate. They have not shown a willingness to do that, but they might show more of a
4:20willingness if McMillan takes a big step forward. And that's kind of what I mean where he McMillan has the ability to
4:26potentially change the Panthers offense, which we know superstar wide receivers can do. So betting on him to emerge as a true star in the league at a discount
4:37relative to his chances of doing that. I think he can he can then still pay off at, you know, maybe he's not going at
4:46the 106 next year when he has the talent to to do that, but he can go at the 203.
4:52You know, I think he's got that kind of that kind of upside. So, uh yeah, I just I think we get we're getting a a pretty
4:59big discount on a ceiling. And then you want to talk about like the floor and the most likely stuff like he's the
5:06clear number one on his team. He's really good, you know, like he's got a pretty big like target moat to to Jaylen Coker.
5:13Chris Brazzle, I think if anything could like help him with just, you know, he's a deep threat. He could kind of he like
5:20keep the defense back, open things up underneath and stuff. There's not there's really no threat here. They don't they don't have a tight end that
5:26we care about at all. Uh, so it it's a very kind of classic small miss big win profile. To me, >> it's very interesting because he's he
5:36there's a lot of buzz guys. I know I've talked up a Mecha Eggbuka. I think everybody's on Luther Burton and McMillan's sort of just there. But in
5:43terms of production, last year he was the best one of the three. Uh 122 targets, 70 catches, 1,4 receiving yards, and a 25% target share. The area
5:55share was super high. the first read rate was super high. Like it's all alpha type profile for McMillan. I I love the
6:02I love the the case of just kind of letting Bryce Young cook a little bit. I think there's a lot of discourse on
6:07Jonathan Brooks right now, but McMillan sort of as the focal point is really interesting. And I'd even argue that just the lack of buzz could kind of push
6:15him down into like the post wide receiver 20 range. He's like wide receiver 19 right now, but we always see it where guys steam up and then a couple
6:23guys just naturally get pushed down for zero reason. So, McMillan, I I think it's an really interesting one. I like the bull case there. Uh, you're also
6:30talking about Jaylen Wadd, and you're like the sixth person in a row to talk about Jaylen Wadd. I went on ship
6:36chasing with you guys this week, um, and we talked about Waddle kind of at length. Wide receiver, 23 on underdog.
6:43It's an ADP that just doesn't make sense. He's going behind a number of guys that are a little bit older that
6:48seem like they lack the upside that he presents. Um, we talked about how he could potentially rise up, but for now,
6:55I agree with you. He's a huge value. How are you seeing Wadd and the type of impact he can make in year one in
7:00Denver?
7:02>> Yeah, you mentioned that a bunch of people have talked about him as as undervalued, and that's been my experience as well. Like, anytime I
7:11bring up Jaylen Waddle, it's a lot of like preaching to the choir. There's I haven't really gotten anyone uh in the
7:17industry to be like, "Nah." You know, we're all like, "Yep, Wadd, great great one. Oh, I love him. Let's talk about
7:24Wadd and what a great value he is." Why is he such a great value still? Like he it feels like this can't last because,
7:32you know, it it just like no one thinks it's bad that, you know, that we can get Wadd here or that or that he should be
7:38going lower that that I've really heard.
7:40I mean, he in a way you can think of him as like a first round pick, right? He's the Broncos new first round pick. They spent
7:48a first round pick on this receiver and we don't have to like wonder if he's good. We know he's good. He's Jaylen
7:54Wadd. He's been good for a while. He's he's entering year six. He's been very efficient basically his entire career.
8:01He's got 2.07 career yards per hour run.
8:04He hit the ground running as a as a target earner and it you know somewhat gadgety way at 78 that first year but
8:10then he moves to 12.78 is is uh the next year he's been around 10 at the low point. So he's never gotten back to like
8:19that kind of more gadgety role but last year was actually the highest of his career at 13.2. So he's like he has the
8:25ability to win downfield and also get targets underneath and be kind of a yak producer. that role is is pretty exciting. I mean, the other thing I
8:36would say, too, is he played 60% of his snaps in the slot as a rookie and was pretty productive. He had over a
8:42thousand yards that season. He's since been an outside wide receiver. So, that versatility, it it reminds me a little bit of Stfane
8:50Diggs where like he played in the slot and was great with the Vikings. He played outside um a couple other years
8:56with the Vikings and was and was great there, too. And then he goes to the Bills and he's like the clear-cut number
9:02one for them. He gets, you know, the big quarterback upgrade with Josh Allen that I would say Jaylen Wadd doesn't get, but
9:10it might be a minor one.
9:13Yeah, it's an upgrade, I think.
9:14>> Yeah, it's probably an upgrade. Yeah, it's not Josh Allen, but you know, it's it's still like a guy who's ascending,
9:20you know, going into year three. And then an offense that should be pretty pass heavy, talking about using more spread concepts, talking about uh
9:28playing with more pace, and I mean, they've got JK Dobbins as their lead runner, which is fine, but this is not
9:35an offense that's going to be built on like a ground and pound kind of philosophy, which are kind of more few
9:41and far between right now. like this this is going to be a p even with a good defense. I think this is going to
9:46they're going to try to score points primarily through the passing game. When you look at Courtland Sutton last year, there were there were a number of red
9:53flags in in what he was doing, you know, efficiency wise, but then also there were points throughout the season and I
10:00like write up all the games every week where you're going like is Troy Franklin the number one right now? You know, he's
10:06he's starting to look like actually the offense is is kind of tilting his way.
10:10They're they're projecting for about the same amount of points this week and then the next week and then it kind of went
10:16back to Sutton where Franklin wasn't able to kind of take that role away. But then Pat Bryant down the stretch was
10:23starting to get worked in more and it really felt like the Broncos are moving away from Sutton who had you know his
10:29least efficient season in a long time at 1.53 yards per hour run. So you bring in Wadd that I mean the whole thing is a
10:37very clear signal to me that like I mean and they'll tell you like this this is our number one guy now like it's not
10:42like you even have to parse it. So I don't really get it why he's going here.
10:47As I said like no one seems to be pushing back. Uh Sutton does go higher than I think he should go. So maybe
10:53there's a quiet Sutton contingent out there that's you know just just fading waddle as well. But yeah, I think I think Sutton is is a fade uh at cost and
11:04uh I think Wadd is kind of a smash. Like he could go 10 picks earlier. I wouldn't really bat an eye.
11:11>> Yeah. I mean, you make a lot of great points and I think like when you look at Sutton, the the the overall counting
11:17stats were pretty similar from his like huge season to last season. Uh eight eight touchdown catches, seven touchdown catches. But if you look like deeper in
11:26the target share like you said dropped down significantly like a 4% decrease in target share. Um and then the first read
11:34rate like he was way ahead on first read rate area everything with with uh 2024 versus 2025. So I think that's really
11:42the reason the Waddle discourse I think a lot of people just came out as soon as the trade was made and for whatever
11:48reason took like an opposite take that we had that it was going to be sort of split usage and Wadd was like a
11:56stylistic ad rather than a guy who could dominate targets in the passing game and that sort of just existed and existed
12:02and existed. So, I think kind of as the summer moves along, there's already a gap between the two of them, but I think
12:08the gap is going to widen a little more.
12:10Uh, but it's also like there's this group of wide receivers that I think are going to keep Wadd down towards wide
12:16receiver 20 range. Um, where he's not going to pass by a bunch of those year 2 guys. There's the entire Manki
12:22contingent. Um, so I I think he's going to remain a value, but I think he's a great structural pick and I think you
12:28really sold that one for sure. If you want my further takes on Jaylen Wadd, you can just listen to about like the
12:34last five shows cuz uh Jacob Gibbs, Nelson Souza, we we talked about all of them. Uh Derrick Brown has Dererick Brown has him wide receiver 10. Um like
12:43everybody's on Waddle right now except for actual drafters. So we'll see how that goes.
12:48>> Um one wide receiver that I'm really excited to hear that you have as a value is Mai Lemon. It was really interesting
12:56because I I've been a noted like Mai Lemon backer where when I was at Fantasy Points, I was kind of arguing with Brett
13:04Whitefield. Uh I was much higher on Mai Lemon than he was, higher than Scott Barrett on Mai Lemon. Um and I go on
13:12some other podcasts during the draft process and there were people like, you know, our friend John Dagel pushing him up to like wide receiver one in this
13:19class gets drafted by Philly and people are all like, I don't know, a little bit disappointed. I think people were kind
13:25of hoping that he would have ended up in LA with the pathway to being, you know, the Devonte Adams replacement eventually, but ends up in Philly. And
13:34the whole discourse has been positivity for Dvont Smith, but [clears throat] Lemon's role could look similar to what Smith has had in the previous two
13:44seasons. I'm pretty optimistic about clicking that button. And you get a huge gap between Lemon and where the other first round wide receivers, well the the
13:53you know the non Omar Cooper, the Jordan Tyson Carell Tate guy. So Lemon is wide receiver 41 um in FFPC drafts. Tyson is
14:03wide receiver 33 and Tate is wide receiver 30, >> but sounds like Lemon's going to be in a full-time role in two wide receiver
14:09sets. Where is your optimism? Is it rolebased, talent based, um or sort of the unknown with with Mann taking over as O?
14:19>> It's it's talent based. I I think um and and I do I think there I mean frankly it's everything like I don't I'm
14:27viewing this very differently than the FFPC market right now. Like uh I think he's a value on underdog and he goes at
14:35the 67 turn there. Uh he's like barely in the I think he just fell out of the top 100 picks or he's at like 98 in the
14:43main event. Like it's [snorts] I think the discount we're getting on Lemon is like absurd in in reddraft. And he he
14:50strikes me as you know a very high upside kind of guy where you know yes it's the Eagles. He's going to be kind
14:59of a uh probably a 1B even post breakout. Um, and you know, of course, maybe he doesn't break out, but but the
15:08upside of it, he breaks out, uh, is he is he going to be like a second round kind of value? Probably
15:14not. But like third, fourth, I I think that that, you know, he has that kind of upside. And when you get down into like
15:22around pick 100 and you're talking about a guy like if he is that level of receiver, like you're you're not like
15:28wondering if you should start him that week. You're talking about a guy who might be like a clear-cut wide receiver two for you, not not just a flex in in
15:37FFPC, which I I think is just a crazy amount of upside to have just sitting around pick a 100. Uh I think probably
15:45the biggest thing people don't really appreciate about Lemon is that he was really good as a deep uh receiver at
15:54USC. He had uh 41% of his career yards on deep targets. He had 31 31% on shallow 0 to10 yard targets, but the
16:04highest percent of his yards was on 20 plus yard targets. And he was able to get separation downfield. Uh he was uh a
16:14much more versatile player as far as being able to play outside and inside I think people are crediting him for. He's
16:20seen I think as like a low upside slot and he's not. He's he can play inside and out. He can win shallow and deep.
16:30And that's where I think like when we're talking about the end of the season, I do think he is a starting wide receiver
16:36in two wide receiver sets. I I do think he can kind of become that 1B to Devonte Smith. And you know, maybe by the end of
16:45the year, we're talking about, hey, Devonte Smith was a 1B to AJ Brown. He's been in he's looking like a 1B to the
16:50new guy. And you know, Lemon isn't like a really really strong prospect. First round pick. uh broke out in a big way in
17:00his junior season, was very efficient in his junior season. He doesn't get the draft capital of Tyson and Tate, but ultimately I think he's a similar bet to
17:09those guys. I like those guys more, but I want like a small discount and I'm getting a massive discount. So, it's
17:16it's kind of a no-brainer. And then you look at Dantavian Wick, who I do think starts the season as the the number two
17:23wide receiver probably. But I mean, you know, he's been fine. He's he's not like some some amazing receiver. He's he's a
17:30solid pro. You know, I think he'll he'll be around in the league for a while longer. But, you know, he was behind
17:36Romeo Dos. It's not like Lemon has to be a star to displace Wix. You know, he can be he can be good and displace Wix. And
17:46again, they spent a first round pick on him. like there's there's going to be some organizational commitment to to having a plan to get him out on the
17:54field and put more on his plate if he shows he's up to it. So, yeah, it's just kind of crazy that you get uh you know,
18:01this you had a first round wide receiver barely in the top 100 picks who has a lot of things that we like in his
18:09prospect profile. Uh you know, the the early declare, the the breakout season, the really strong efficiency. Um, you know, even his teammate was was a third
18:19round pick, uh, Jacobe Lane. Like, this is it's not like some small school guy where we're doing a bunch of projection.
18:25Like, can a USC receiver really make the leap to the NFL? Like, no, we're good.
18:30You know, like a nice nice track record.
18:33Pretty nice track record.
18:33>> Nice track record. Like, I really struggle to see. I mean, I I guess there's like a little bit the hammy
18:38concern with him and and and sure, you know, if he's not healthy, that's that's an issue, but you know, and one you
18:45would want to discount, but not this level. Like, it's just it's just too cheap. It's just way too cheap for the
18:50upside that you're getting.
18:51>> I also think there was some signal based on, you know, people talk about Howie Roseman who just kind of is like a
18:57valuebased drafter who kind of, you know, it's always the drafts sort of like with the rankings and he's had a ton of success by just not making
19:03mistakes. But when you go Lemon and Eli Stours like backto-back picks, I think it's sort of a signal that they want to
19:11change things, maybe like more targets around the line of scrimmage and guys who were very successful college receivers changing the guard. But Lemon,
19:20like a lot of the the quotes and you talk about like Nick Serriani and and sort of the way that the Eagles are
19:25approaching him, people are constantly talking about Mai Lemon's toughness that he brings to the position and like the physicality and he has all these traits
19:33that like real football people are going to love. And then you put that together with like he's a mega target earner
19:40where a lot of tape people would when they watched him and they broke down the positive traits, they would see Aman
19:46Ross St. Brown, they would see Jackson Smith and Jigba. Um, and you mentioned the USC 26% target share and he won the
19:53Bitnikov with multiple NFL players around him. Um, really really a fun player and it's just the cost is so cheap with Lemon. It's hard to find this
20:03sort of value in this sort of range with that upside. And I like that you bring up the Dvont Smith. I'm very high on
20:09Smith, but if Smith can't take over a full AJ Brown role, then that's a net positive for Lemon. And there's a lot of
20:16people sort of on Dallas Goddard, but Goddard's always been a sort of a a cap target ceiling guy. Thrived on touchdowns. Um, so I think Lemon's got a
20:24lot of outs to return value at his current range. Keep the conversation going. Let's pivot off of wide receiver.
20:31Let's talk about a tight end. Harold Fannon Jr. I've talked about it from a dynasty lens how Fannon Jr. goes from
20:38having like nobody on the team besides like Jerry Judy to Cleveland drafting a Casey Conpsion, a Denzel Boston, two wide receivers I like, but I maybe think
20:48I'm overthinking it a little bit. Fannon Jr., we sort of talked about um the value he's presenting in round six of a
20:55tight end premium format like the FFPC.
20:58He was unbelievable last year and Pat, he did it as a 21-year-old. He was like the the youngest tight end in football
21:04coming out of the MAC with no learning curve and he completely nuked David and Jooku, a guy who we've used in fantasy
21:11for multiple seasons before. Uh and Jooku is now LA Charger and Fannon Jr.
21:17looks probably like the odds on favorite to lead this team in targets again.
21:22>> Yeah. and he goes in a range where, you know, historically it hasn't been a great spot to take these tight ends
21:29where you're you're sort of like normally you're paying for a little bit of safety, I think, in the range where he goes because
21:36uh I think drafters are are normally quite good about pricing up that high-end upside that you do get with a Coloulston Lovelin who you have to take
21:44at the end of the second or Tyler Warren who's, you know, going in the early third. I like I I get that those guys
21:52really do have that secondyear upside um and showed a lot as a rookie. Uh both of them, but so did Fannon. Fannon showed
22:01that he can earn a ton of targets and operate as a number one in an offense as a rookie tight end when he had to beat
22:10out like a pretty established passcatching inline tight end in David and Jooku. Like that was a pretty tough assignment. And then he, you know, he
22:20he's also a third round pick. So it it's not like he was their first rounder and you know like Lovelin where they're
22:27like, "Yeah, we're kind of bringing him along slowly and then once he's got it like he's he's there and then it's like
22:33if anything with Lovelin it's like why is this taking so long?" You know, he was he was the 10th overall pick. Why
22:38why aren't they playing him more?
22:39Fannon, like if we never really got anything from Fannon, if he ended up being like Brevin Jordan or something and was just like a dude who was on the
22:48back end of a depth chart for six or seven years, like that that really wouldn't be that surprising. He had to
22:54earn it and he was very very productive last year. And then you you look at like what let's review the the prospect
23:04profile here again now that this dude was was the number one target on his team. Oh yeah, he had 3.77 yards per
23:11route run uh as a tight end in college, which is the best we've ever seen. He's he's literally the most productive, most
23:18efficient college tight end ever. And there were questions about whether or not that would translate if he'd be able to play kind of real big boy NFL tight
23:28end. And he is able to do that. Now, I think, you know, he's probably going to split out into the slot more than your
23:35typical tight end. and you know he's he's not going to you know be a dominant run blocker in line or anything like
23:41that. He's probably more of a Mark Andrews type you know but that's fine like as long as he plays enough and and
23:49last year was a very strong signal that that he is able to do that then it doesn't matter if he's not the most
23:55traditional guy. He is undersized. He is duckfooted but like [laughter] I don't know. I don't it seems like we're still getting kind of that
24:03duckfooted discount a little bit on him when you when you think about how productive he was. He has over 100 targets. He projects for a really strong
24:10role once again. And in tight end premium, the upside is the tight end premium, one and a half per catch. Like
24:18he actually has that upside to be the clear number one target on his team.
24:22Even with the addition of Conpsion and Boston, these guys are rookies. like that he he has established himself as the number one already and that could
24:30continue this year and even if he is like a 1A 1B and he's the one B with Conpsion or something by the end of the
24:35season the Browns could end up passing a decent amount they're not going to be good so uh you know Fannon I think has
24:43upside for targets and potentially be the number one target on his team which is not the the typical profile of a
24:51tight end going in this range. Uh, you know, typically it's like, well, yeah, you know, Sam Leaport is not the number
24:57one. He's not really even the number two. Uh, but he's really good and the offense is good. I'll take him here. You
25:03know, that's not this. This is I'm betting on a guy who in retrospect maybe we should have been taking, you know,
25:11right where we were taking Carson Lovelin and Tyler Warren. [snorts] Um, and you're getting him in like the fifth or even the sixth. So, I I think he's
25:18just a a really strong bet on his target earning ability, which he demonstrated uh as both a prospect and last year in
25:26his rookie season.
25:27>> Yeah, it's a it's a really interesting conversation to have because you bring up like these tight ends. It's like the
25:33the kind of the upper middle class tight ends where it's like the mid tight end ones where it's usually a range where
25:40we're fading it. But especially in tight end premium formats, it sort of feels like this is an appealing range for drafters where if you don't get a
25:48Bowowers, McBride, who's been, we'll talk about McBride in one second, but McBride has sort of been falling a little bit in round two. Uh Loveland, of
25:57course, everybody loves, and then Tyler Warren's actually steamed up into like the back end of round three, sometimes early round four. But you get to that
26:05tier of Pitts, Craft, Leaporta, Fannon, it feels like it's it's a it's a value, especially when you consider you go like
26:13Isaiah likely and KD have both come up towards that tier. So I I think like Fannon has a good combination of role
26:21upside and people like your Tedo McMillan take people just sort of fading that entire offense because of the lack of clarity at quarterback. you've
26:29brought up that you think that the Browns defense could also struggle and it could end up being a team where the
26:34pace of play really helps us as fantasy managers.
26:38>> Yeah, I think the Browns defense could struggle. Uh they obviously traded Miles Garrett. Um you know, they they're going to have a good pass rush again, you
26:46would expect, but this wasn't writing writing up the uh the games week to week. I I I preview the games every
26:55every week and uh the thing with the Browns is that you realize like as the season went on if teams were willing to
27:04attack them through the air that was actually the path of least resistance because they had a good run defense, they had a really good pass rush. So you
27:12kind of had to go, am I willing to like brave the pass rush here and actually attack a secondary that you can beat?
27:19And teams that did that were successful.
27:21Some teams like the, you know, the Steelers were like, "Yeah, we're not doing that. [laughter] We're not I'm not getting sacked by
27:26Miles Garrett. No thanks." Uh, but, you know, the Patriots were were successful in doing that. A number of other teams were. And I think that that will become
27:35a more obvious path this year with with Miles Garrett no longer there and the pass rush not being dominant, you know,
27:42most likely. So, I do think that, you know, teams are going to be able to uh move the ball through the air on the
27:49Browns and if they are as good against the run this year, which and maybe they're not. Maybe they that falls off a
27:55bit as well, but you know, that would be awesome actually if they're if they're still really good against the run and
28:01bad in the secondary and uh you know, teams are able to just kind of beat on beat up on them through the air. Uh and
28:09then they're going to be down a good amount. So, um, you know, if they're if they're like if they're seeding big
28:18plays, uh, on the on the passing game in the passing game on the other side and they're getting down quickly, you know,
28:24where teams aren't just kind of grinding, uh, you know, three, six point margin wins out against them, but are actually able to like put
28:33them in a hole. Oh, we're down 10. It's still the first quarter kind of thing.
28:37They're going to they're going to have to pass. And I know I know Monkin wants to have Judkins as kind of the the
28:42bellcow and the the feature guy in the offense, which makes sense, but what happens if they fall behind? And they're going to fall behind a good amount. And
28:51I think that pass volume uh could be actually pretty good here, better than it was last year. And the thing with
28:58Fannon is he's he's a shallow ADOT Yak profile. This is a guy you get the ball in his hands and he gets moving. And
29:06that's great for uh a team that might have to pass a lot because of game script, right? It it's if I need like
29:14downfield passing efficiency, that that can actually be a problem sometimes if the team's not very good. But for Fannon, you have the ability for him to
29:22rack up targets, you know, with like five, six, seven yards from the line of scrimmage and then he's adding that yak
29:28that way. Uh, and maybe he doesn't score a ton of touchdowns cuz the the team's not great, but again, the tight end
29:35premium element here really helps me out.
29:38>> Yeah, it's interesting when when you talk about like Fannon and the game flow, it sounds a little bit like Trey
29:43McBride last year. Um, and I I think yeah, Fannon, it's just a very, very interesting profile. And I didn't think that he would fall this far. Like you're
29:52seeing these one-off drafts where he's late sixth round right now. So, you know, if you're listening to this and you play FFPC, you might see him go off
29:59the board at like the four or five turn.
30:01You might see him go 15 20 picks later.
30:04So, really an interesting player. We we've got a running back target and we've got a couple of quarterbacks to talk about. But before we do that, Pat,
30:10let everybody know what's going on uh with not only with Legendary Upside, but also Shipchasing.
30:16>> Yeah. Uh legendaryupside.com is where you can find all of my writing and rankings. got uh baseball rankings, underdog, draft kings, FFPC, and then
30:26main event rankings as well. Um, and my articles uh I've got some stuff on the rookies coming out uh for like kind of
30:34reddraft draft and um best baseball purposes. Looking at looking at that. Uh but yeah, that that's all over at Legendary Upside. If you're doing in the
30:43best streets, we also have a dynamic rankings tool called the Sidekick that that helps you out if you're doing a bunch of best baseball volume uh on
30:51underdogs and draft kings. And then ship chasing. We're starting our main event season here where we've already drafted our first team. We did a slow draft
31:00series where we did little mini episodes for each of our picks on the clock. You can check those out. Uh the YouTube is
31:07is just ship chasing. And then um on next Wednesday uh we're going to be drafting at 2 Eastern uh a main event
31:17live which is now full. So uh that that is confirmed that that'll be uh that'll be going on on the 15th 2 p.m. Eastern.
31:25Uh you can catch us drafting our our first live main event of the year and then we've got a bunch more main events
31:30uh that we'll be streaming as the as the summer goes on.
31:33>> Yeah, awesome stuff. Make sure you check out all of Pat's work. Let's talk about running back. And it's not necessarily
31:37the running back that I thought I'd be talking about. Certainly, there was like a several month period where I've talked about my concerns with Bucky Irving at
31:46cost, the sort of the appeal of taking Kenneth Gainwell. Now, the prices have sort of converged significantly where you're seeing Bucky Irving dropping into
31:57the occasional sixth round appearance and he's sort of living in that round five range. his most recent ADP. He's actually fallen out of running back two
32:07land. He's at running back 25. Um, and according to Fantasy Mojo, shout out to Darren Armani. Make sure you check out
32:13Fantasy Mojo if you're playing FFPC. Uh, Bucky Irving is the the low we've seen the last couple days, the middle of the
32:21sixth round, the 6.6 uh, for Bucky Irving. And on the flip side, Kenneth Gainwell is up to running back 33 with
32:29the occasional seventh round appearance.
32:31So guys have converged and has that created sort of a value opportunity for Bucky Irving who was really good out the
32:39gate last year Pat and the usage was outstanding. Uh dealt with injuries, dealt with uh some off the- field stuff um in terms of like just I think it was
32:47a mental health thing in terms of not dealing with the injuries very well. Um and the vibes weren't great, but he's
32:53kind of sitting there in a range now where is it too good to be true?
32:59Yeah, I mean I think everything about Bucky Irving second season, we want a discount on that. Um, he was he was not
33:06very good as far as a runner. Uh, his rushing efficiency was was actually quite bad looking at, you know, some of
33:12the advanced metrics on NextGen and stuff. Um, and he was quite good the year before. So, that was very disappointing to see. He did. I would
33:20say though, you know, a lot of that came early in the year and the Bucks offensive line was an absolute mess
33:29early in the season. They had Worfs out and then they've got, you know, this kind of weird like replacement strategy cuz they were missing multiple guys
33:38where they've got their center at tackle. And so there was a week early on in the season where literally every single Bucks offensive lineman was in a
33:46position that is was not like their initial starting position to begin the season. Everyone was out of position. We know this is a a a you know a um a
33:57position group that benefits from continuity and knowing what the guy next to you is going to do. And so it's just
34:03like it's kind of a bit of a a mini disaster that they, you know, eventually pulled out of, but not with Bucky Irving
34:12because he was injured. So uh that, you know, kind of keeps me from going overboard with how bad his rookie season
34:21or his follow-up to the rookie season was. It is concerning to me and I and I want to discount on that. And then you
34:27get um them bringing in Kenny Gainwell who was pretty good last year and that is concerning to me as well. And then
34:34you have Shawn Tucker who can play. So all of that is is concerning. What's happening though is that Buckyy's like falling to where it's it's as if he like
34:45is he going to get flipped by Gainwell at some point like this? like he's still the favorite to be the starting running
34:52back there and he was a very good receiver as a rookie and he was a very good receiver last year. Uh you know,
35:00you can look at stuff like yards per route run, ESPN's receiver uh metric was was quite favorable for him last season.
35:08Uh over the last two seasons, he's he's RB5 uh in that overall metric and he was RB5 last year as well. So, he's been strong
35:17there. If you look at yards uh after catch over expected over at NextGen, he was actually really strong even last year in that metric. Uh he had 98 uh yak
35:28over expected which was eighth best among running backs. Uh it's behind Bjon, CMC, Jir Gibbs, Jaylen Warren, Raandre Stevenson, Ashen Genty, and Bree
35:38Hall. And that's a total number that he racked up in only 10 games played. So, you know, had he played a full season,
35:47he might have been among the league leaders. Like, he's he really flashes a rookie as a receiver and then he followed that up with actually a strong
35:54receiving performance in his second year.
35:56>> If he can get back some of that rushing efficiency that he had and like he had a lot of juice that rookie season that,
36:01you know, he's not the fastest guy, but the B is >> awesome that year.
36:05So, I mean, I I'm I'm looking at him and I'm going, "Okay, you're not going to be an absolute workhorse, but you you have
36:15rushing upside. We've seen that. The offensive line should be better this year than it was to start last year."
36:21And he's a really good receiver. So, at a certain point, it is worth buying in despite the risk around Bucky. And like
36:31yeah, I I there he is a risk, but he's now like, you know, falling to where you're getting him after that group of
36:38running backs that I think he is a part of, you know, that the Henderson and Irving and all those guys like he's kind
36:44of behind them now. He's going behind DeAndre Swift. Is DeAndre Swift a workhorse? No. He's a good receiver who, you know, will probably be like a 1A
36:54back on his team. That sounds a lot like Bucky Irving to me, except I think Bucky Irving is probably still better than
36:59DeAndre Swift. So, but now I'm getting him after. So, yeah, it's just the discount has gotten big enough that I'm in.
37:06>> It's an interesting take and I think the one thing that you you keep bringing up the receiving profile. My sort of push
37:12back to you would be having a back like Gainwell who we saw last year um became kind of the focal point of the
37:18Pittsburgh offense. And I know that was a lot of, you know, the the environment he was in where Aaron Rogers just
37:23continually checking down. But do you worry about Irving being more of like a structural pick here? Um or do you still
37:32view the upside even if or are you viewing Gainwell more of a contingent play that's maybe gotten steamed up too much? Um or do you view him as a guy who
37:41could really cap the receiving upside for Irving?
37:44>> I think Gainwell is a problem and could end up capping the receiving upside for Irving. But I also think that like we're
37:52kind of misremembering Kenny Gainwell a little bit. Like he there was a game that Warren missed that he he looked really good in um and you
38:01know delivered as as a contingent guy.
38:04Uh and he played well throughout the season, but he wasn't the Steelers clear starter last year. Like he was the 1B
38:14last year really. Um and he he had you know 87 targets last year which is pretty good. Warren still had 43. So
38:22there was uh and Warren missed some games. So there there was like a um still like a split in the receiving work
38:31going on there. And I think that Gainwell now joining the team and really we have like one season last season of
38:39Gainwell really doing anything. Buckyy's been on this team with this head coach, you know, both of both years that he's he's been in the league that he's the
38:49incumbent here. So, I do think that Gainwell creates some issues for Irving and and is ceiling a little bit. Um, and I think
38:58Tucker does too, frankly. I think Tucker could could steal some touchdowns. Uh, and so Bucky has potential to be like a
39:05frustrating pick for sure, but like, you know, once we get to a certain range, >> we're talking like the the late fifth
39:15round now, you know, or the sixth round.
39:18This is the the FFPC. Like, it is tough to get running backs with like a ton of up. The next running backs off the board
39:23are going to be like Jadarian Price, two down profile. Jaylen Warren, who just dealt with, you know, being uh in in a
39:31split and now has Rico Dow to contend with on an offense that I'm not especially excited about. Tony Pard, who has some split concerns, some I'm much
39:41more concerned about how much left he has in the tank. You know, like it's Roandre Stevenson, he's dealing with with Trayvon Henderson. Like, we're the
39:48clean upside bets are gone. I and I've got, you know, a potential need a running back with with a guy who's who's
39:56young, who's shown it as a runner, who's never not shown it as a receiver in through two years. Um, is on, you know,
40:03a pretty solid offense. I it just gets to a point where I think, uh, the discount is enough for me to embrace the
40:09risk.
40:11>> Yeah, you make a really strong point for it. And I think when you to consider the the tier break after Bucky Irving, it
40:18makes it a little bit even more interesting. Just curious, head-to-head, Bashial Toutin or Bucky Irving for you.
40:26>> Yeah. So, like I want to say Tutin because I like Toutin a lot, but like it's probably the correct play is
40:32probably Bucky cuz you're like Tootton is uh he's got a third down back there.
40:39You know, Laquent Allen is going to have a role. There's another guy Chris Rodriguez who is probably likely to have a role. Toutton
40:48didn't establish himself with really any kind of like big role as a rookie. Uh even though I think he could have. I
40:55don't I don't think ETN's amazing. And he was he was he had a good success rate. He he did he failed to hit really
41:02any big runs. Um and you know he wasn't amazing as a receiver. So like theoretically I do have this idea of like Tutin could
41:12be an absolute smash. He could take over this whole back field. He he ran a 432 like he could be an explosive he was
41:19consistent last year. He's reliable.
41:21What if he's what if he's like Devon Chan where they can use him as like everything, you know? He's undersized, but he's fast. He He can be a workhorse,
41:29which he he was an absolute workhorse all three seasons in college. He was versatile. He can catch the ball. Maybe he's not like a receiving superstar, but
41:36he he's certainly good enough. And like this offense could be awesome. He's the clear lead back. Like oh my god. like I
41:43just take Buck I take uh Tutin and win my league immediately. That's like where I want to go. But like you know if that doesn't happen I think
41:54I' like I may have burned the pick you know so there's kind of a boom bust element to Tutin that I am betting on. I
42:00I take actually a good amount of tootin but Bucky has this thing of like yes there's some concerns about his ultimate
42:07ceiling from a situation perspective but he actually has the profile of guy who has a really high ceiling you know he's
42:13a good receiver he's good enough as a runner the offense is good enough like as a player he's a high ceiling bet is a
42:20in a situation >> it's harder to see it breaking his way to the situation is is undeniable >> but the player I mean he's a round four
42:30pick like it's thinner. It is a little thinner for this player to be what I hope he is. And so I think it the answer
42:37probably is Bucky straight up. But this discount's going to allow me to take Tooten because guys, we're not going to get Toutin if we don't take him here.
42:45Tooten goes earlier. We'll get >> I'm going I'm going as you know after you know you failed to sway me. I'm I'm
42:51still I'm still Bal Tutin versus Bucky Irving. We'll talk about >> I don't want to fade Tutin.
42:56>> Yeah. So, I I want to be able to take both guys and getting Toutin is going to require taking him ahead of Bucky. But,
43:02it's one of those things where like if >> is the ADP correct to have them this way? Probably not. But, I do want to
43:09take both. So, I I'll I'll end up taking to over Bucky at a certain point.
43:13>> Yeah, it's definitely some unknown upside with all the Tutin drafters, but in the mystery box for sure. But, yeah, we like we like Liam Cohen offenses and
43:20we like very very fast guys as well.
43:22That's a lot of fun.
43:24Let's let's uh talk about quarterback because quarterback's interesting.
43:27There's been a lot of discourse about like quarterback where the value is. We talked about this when I came on Ship
43:33Chasing with you guys and we're both very high on Jaden Daniels and it's a complete narrative swing where last year we were sort of having this argument,
43:44can Jaden Daniels be the MVP this year?
43:47Can Jaden Daniels challenge Josh Allen for the QB1? and drafters were sort of in that in that boat where Jaden Daniels
43:54in like FFPC main events was going at the three four turn. Now you're seeing Jaden Daniels fall into like the eighth
44:01round. Again, it's draft to draft specific when it comes to quarterback, but Daniels is falling into a range of drafts where it's really hard not to
44:11take him. Talk about the upside scenarios for Daniels and sort of the round range where you like drafting him.
44:19Yeah, like this is one where, you know, I want to be I love Drake May and he goes, you know, in a range that I think
44:27makes him pretty appealing in a vacuum, but then you're like, Jaden Daniels isn't going to go off for like another round plus. Like what? You know, like
44:37there's Jaden Daniels has this, you know, rushing upside. He has um I I don't know if David Blau is going to be
44:47an upgrade on Kingsberry or not, but there's an element here where you he could be. And I do wonder too if they
44:55they end up signing another receiver. I don't I never really thought it was IUK, you know, [laughter] that the IU stuff
45:02was always uh a little optimistic to me, but the you know, they could they could bring Debo back, they could sign Digs,
45:09something like that. I don't know. Um, and then they but they do have Chika Konquo who kind of gives them a little
45:15bit of that Zack Z role but you know a younger guy a little more juice. Uh, and so yeah, I think they'll, you know, it's
45:23I wish the weapons were a little bit better, but McLaren and a conquo and maybe them signing someone, you know, it's it's sufficient for a guy in Jaden
45:31Daniels who's a really good deep ball and can run and like you said, like as a rookie earned himself the following
45:39year, like really strong draft capital in fantasy and then he was banged up in his second season. heading into the uh
45:48into his rookie season, I was like overly concerned about his injury risk because of how many hits he took in college and ended up regretting not
45:55being higher on him. And now I feel like I'm getting like a second opportunity where people are like, "Ah, he's, you
46:00know, he's going to get hurt or whatever, I guess." Or an injury kind of has now caused him to fall. I'm like,
46:05"Okay, cool. I can kind of write this wrong a little bit and and be aggressive about Jaden Daniels, who I think is a
46:12great pick." The only thing that keeps me from drafting him more, wanting to draft him more would be the guy, you
46:17know, you can get Jaylen Herz even later. You can get Patrick Mahomes uh even later than that. And these are also
46:25guys who we have drafted much higher than this. We know can score really really well for fantasy. I mean, Mahomes in in FFPC scoring could be he has been
46:36absolutely dominant and he's going like like the 11th now. Yeah, [laughter] it's it's kind of crazy. So, it's it's the only reason I wouldn't take Daniels, you
46:47know, all the time is that I'm like, well, I actually have other really high upside guys available later at prices that also don't really make sense to me.
46:57Justin Herbert, I would also throw out there, is like a really awesome upside swing, and he's quite cheap. Dak is is
47:04very cheap. Like, there's plenty of upside late uh at quarterback this year.
47:10The Jaylen Herz like Daniels, it's it's an easy easy case. The Jaylen Herz one, it's super interesting. His quarterback point per game finishes go quarterback
47:21six, quarterback one, quarterback two, quarterback six, quarterback eight. It feels like he's kind of being drafted at his floor. And you're seeing these
47:29drafts where you're getting him in like the 10. I think you guys got him in the 10th round.
47:32>> 10th.
47:33>> Yeah. I mean, >> nobody's on Herz this year. It's weird.
47:36You talked about sort of the Mai Lemon enthusiasm. It's very easy to correlate Herz, but he's also the kind of quarterback with this rushing upside
47:45where you don't really need to correlate him at all, but you can get Mai Lemon, you can get Dallas Goddard, you can have
47:51a little bit of correlation. It could be a really consolidated offense. And like people are treating Herz like he's going to go to zero. Uh it's it's a really odd
47:59market for him. I I think people understand that one. The Mahomes one though, like there's people treating him. I was in an NFC draft the other
48:07night where everybody was fading Mahomes. Uh he's down to quarterback 13 in FFPC, but I feel like that's one of those that's his average, but there's
48:17certain drafts where he'll be like quarterback 18 off the board. You talked about the 11th round. We're seeing Mahomes occasionally available in like
48:25the 13th round. He's being like completely left for dead.
48:29>> It makes no sense to me. I mean, he's been uh the all the reports on his recovery have been really bullish. He's
48:36like been putting a ton of time at the facility and then, you know, he's the reports are he's going to be cleared for
48:4111 on 111 in training camp. Uh I'm not concerned about him missing time at all.
48:48Like he he's going to play the whole season, it looks like. I mean, I know there's a chance that that doesn't end
48:52up happening. We're still in July, but that's the way it looks is that he's going to play the whole year. And yeah,
49:00you know, I wish they had upgraded their weapons. I wish they had taken Tyson or Carnell Tate or or Mai Lemon. You know,
49:07it's a shame they didn't add one of those guys. I think that would have been a real boost to the offense. But, you
49:12know, Rice doesn't seem like he's going to get suspended this year. He did get suspended for, you know, six games last
49:18year. worthy uh dealt with that shoulder injury which they talked about that like literally changing the routes that he was running and and getting him fewer
49:27over the middle of the field opportunities because he was playing through a serious shoulder injury. Uh I think that worthy being healthy should
49:36help a bit. I also think that the OC change which is another thing with Herz, right? Herz gets Shawn Manion, which I
49:43think could be a huge upgrade um from last year with Patulo where like that that was not working. You know, Pulo
49:51like it was a swing in a miss there. Uh you know, replacing Kell Moore with Kevin Pulo, but Shawn Manion people seem
49:58extremely excited about. Bene is not, you know, one of these like young uh rising going to be a head coach next
50:04year type of guys, but you know, he's he we have seen him have success with the Chiefs. He's also maybe like to his
50:12detriment very pass heavy like he he's probably too pass heavy which is saying something you know if I'm saying that you know you it's probably true because
50:21I I like I like a pass heavy OC but you know replacing Matt Naggie with the enemy you don't have Matt Naggie which
50:29is great and then you you're you know as confident um as ever that this is going to be a high pass rate over expected
50:36offense even with the weapons being you know a little bit worse than we'd like.
50:40And yeah, coming off the ACL, he's probably going to run a little bit less, especially at the beginning of the season, but like I'm not even really
50:48that convinced he runs less by the time we get to the the sprint. Like if we if we're in the money weeks here with
50:53Patrick Mahomes at a 13th round price, like you're you're potentially like he he can't like outscore Josh Allen by like a pretty good margin actually in in
51:04a given week. Uh, and you're you paid like a third round pick and I paid a 13th and this is not like some pie in
51:11the sky. Like could you imagine? It's Patrick Mahomes. It's Patrick Mahomes.
51:16>> Never never heard of that guy. Never heard of that guy.
51:18>> Yeah. It's nuts. It doesn't make any sense to me. Like he he could he could throw for five touchdowns in week 17 and
51:25and you know win someone the main event.
51:27Like it's that's extremely plausible. So you know as plausible as anyone else you know. absolutely going nuts and and uh being the quarterback that you need.
51:38Like he by the end of the season he's he's up there with everybody else. I I really don't understand why he's so
51:43cheap.
51:44>> Yeah, it's an interesting one and I think it's a little little hive mind where everybody sort of just piles on
51:48and fades a guy and then you see it in ADP. Uh you make a really strong case for Mahomes and also if you don't like
51:54Mahomes, you can do a two QB build quite easily. take somebody in round 11 and then take Mahomes as well and sort of
52:02let the chips fall where they all where they lie. Let's go lightning round.
52:05>> You can even take a the QB2 after. I mean there there's there are guys who like Kyler Murray is going really late
52:11and it's like well does he hold the job?
52:14Like maybe he doesn't need to. You know, you can you can cut him once Mahomes is back to full speed. you know, Jackson
52:19Dart uh is going in that same kind of range and I'm worried about his ability to protect himself, but he's probably
52:25going to score well uh while he's healthy. You know, there there's actually like a lot of options that you can Malik Willis you can get really late
52:34who could be a nice little kind of bridge quarterback if Mahomes starts slow. Uh so there's like it you don't even have to like pre-plan it. You could
52:42take Mahomes and then figure out your quarterback too after and score a ton of points at quarterback this year. You know, you're not really sacrificing
52:50anything.
52:51>> Yeah, it's a very interesting quarterback marketplace. I'll continue to cover that uh all throughout the summer. Let's go lightning round uh
52:58before we get you out of here. Um let's talk about round two running backs. I'm going to give you a cluster of guys.
53:03Pick one. Omarian Hampton, Kenneth Walker, Saquon Barkley, Chase Brown, Derek Henry, all of those guys going sort of close to one another. Am I missing any running
53:14backs that should be in that range, Pat?
53:17>> Achan, I guess.
53:18>> Oh, Han. Of course, Hchan. Let's go Han in that range, too. So, again, for the listeners, Hampton, Walker, Saquon Barkley, Chase Brown, Devon Achan, Derk
53:28Henry. Pick one. Everybody says there's all this running back value in round two, but what's the guy if you had to
53:35pick? If you had one single draft, you're going running back in round two.
53:38Which guy are you taking?
53:40I'd go Barkley. Uh I I think Barkley uh as part of this offensive coordinator upgrade, I think could could really bounce back in a in a pretty big way.
53:51And um you know, they're probably not going to throw to him much more. Uh but like he he could do that. You know, he
54:00he used to get a lot of targets. You know, it's kind of this offense doesn't really throw to the running back a
54:04bunch. But maybe Manion, you know, incorporates that a little bit more. But my my bigger hope is that we get back to
54:13more creativity. Um, and just an understanding of like I need to help create explosives, but then once I give Saquon an opportunity to deliver on
54:25that, like we will get the explosive, you know, like we can't just I'm not just going to slam Saquon into the line
54:30and like hope that that's enough. like the the the power of having, you know, Saquon Barkley and then good receivers, right? Is that you kind of put the
54:40defense in a bind and you're able to do creative stuff to um to take advantage of that and generate big plays. And I
54:47think Kell Moore understood that. I don't think Kevin Pullo did. And I thought it was a very kind of vanilla just kind of waste of of good weapons
54:56last year. And I have a lot of optimism for Manion as does the, you know, everyone on the Eagles from from the
55:03sounds, but they seem super excited about him. Um, he was he was very well regarded and they were kind of able to
55:09to steal him away from the Packers. So, uh, it's it's Barkley for me. I don't I don't think we get 2024, but I think he
55:18could have a really nice bounceback campaign, and I like the second round price.
55:21>> Yeah. No, I not who I would have uh had you pegged for right there, but Barkley, you make a really nice case there. And
55:27sort of e multiple Eagles sort of beating their ADP really. The Barkley, you're getting at a huge discount. Herz, you're getting at a huge discount.
55:34Lemon, you're getting at a huge discount. The only player that is going in a range where you're not used to seeing him is Devont Smith. So, the
55:41Eagles are really priced to pay off, especially if Manny >> That's That's the one guy I'm not as in on. Yeah. And it's not that I don't like
55:48Smith, but he is actually expensive. the other guys. It just feels like you're getting that that discount because of last year. Um,
55:56>> yeah, Smith's going in, but I'm taking >> Smith is going in the second round of some formats. He's really steaming up a
56:01lot. The opportunity cost for sure. I like him a lot as well, but it it gets harder and harder every week. Seems like
56:07there's more and more people making him like a my guy as we enter the season.
56:11>> Brian Thomas Jr. or Parker Washington?
56:13Pick one.
56:15>> Brian Thomas Jr.
56:16>> That's where I'm at.
56:16>> Uh, yeah. I mean, there's been a lot.
56:19It's funny. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills a little bit on Travis Hunter because there keep being all these reports of like he's uh he's going to
56:28play two ways is the way I read it. But but the report will be like Travis Hunter is a cornerback this year. And
56:34yeah, he'll probably play 40 to 60% of the offensive snaps, but he's a cornerback. Like 40 to 60%. [laughter] That's a pretty good amount. Who Who's a
56:45whose snaps are that gonna come out of?
56:46Like what is where does he play again?
56:49Oh, the slot. He plays in the slot.
56:51That's where Parker Washington plays. Is that a problem for Parker Washington?
56:54Seems like it's actually a huge problem.
56:56Like we're not he's not like a speculative double-digit round pick.
57:02Maybe I know he's going to probably be splitting with Hunter for a lot of the year, but like you know, maybe maybe
57:07he's able to to do what he did at the end of the season if if Hunter gets hurt or No, he's like a sixth round pick.
57:12we're like in we're like this guy's going to going to actually like build on what he did at the end of last season
57:18and be the wide receiver one on this team. I I don't get it. There's like a pretty long history of of guys like this
57:25turning back into pumpkins, you know. Um we've we've seen it a number of times.
57:30we get excited, we we draft a guy, and it doesn't it doesn't end up, you know, becoming anything more than like the
57:37breakout was actually last year is is how we is how this this kind of plays out a good amount of the time. Um, but
57:47you know, for what for for Bryant Thomas, like we have seen him in a role that's pretty untouched by what Travis
57:54Hunter does where he's the outside deep threat number one guy. I know a lot of that was with M. Jones when he was
57:59really breaking out rather than Trevor Lawrence. But he's put together a camp that people are really excited about. So is Washington to be fair. But I think
58:07like when you look at the upside of it, Brian Thomas is a much more traditional number one wide receiver than Washington.
58:16The slot, if I'm betting on slots, I like it in a Liam Cohen offense. He he has traditionally utilized the slot
58:22pretty well. But again, [laughter] I think some of that stuff will probably be to Hunter, who they're going to, you know, make the snaps on offense count.
58:30Uh, and then Thomas, you have the ability to generate big plays, which might be pretty important because one of the other things with Hunter is if even
58:38if he's only playing like 30 to 40%, you know, 30 to 40% round participation, that's probably like no one's probably at 95 on the Jags if if they're doing
58:49that, you know, and so everyone's kind of getting hurt to a degree, but Washington probably getting hurt more so than the others. And so for the ability
58:58for for Thomas to just pay off, you know, on six targets, like he's fine, you know, because he's getting targeted a little bit more downfield. So I think
59:06he's he's safer than Washington. First round pick, really productive as a rookie, traditional outside deep threat type of guy, like you know, and then
59:15also I think there's actually higher upside because he has the ability to be kind of a more classic number one. Yeah,
59:21we talked about this way early on in the process and BTJ's ADP's improved a little bit, but it feels kind of it felt
59:27really punitive at first and now you're seeing people being a little bit more rational with BTJ. He started to come up
59:33into a decent range, but >> like Lad Maki also was a terrible pick last year and people are steaming him up
59:39and making him sort of like a flag plant. Obviously, his situation is really good with Herbert, but BTJ, when you talk about year one, was a top five
59:48scorer down the stretch, finished as a the wide receiver six on the season in PPR. Um, and the vibes are very positive
59:55right now coming out of Jacksonville.
59:57Let's finish off the show with this.
59:59Give us a big >> By the way, Russell Gage is my uh is my Parker Washington slander if the people want to get real riled up.
60:05>> That's Yeah, you want to get really really fired up about that one. Shout out shout out to uh Scott Barrett who'll
60:09be joining me on this show soon enough who's ultimate Parker Washington guy. Um I I'll say this [snorts] like Dan Williamson made a made a really good
60:17point similar to you. Dan I I draft a lot of high stakes uh leagues with. He's a host the dominator over on player
60:23profiler. Really really a great high stakes manager who's had a lot of receipts to prove it. He sort of always says beware of the small sample size guy
60:32who's been in the slot and sort of dominated usage at one point. It's just a it's a cautionary tale. He still likes
60:37Parker Washington, but he sort of like every time feels kind of like worried about it. So, the Russell Gage stuff is
60:42going to get the Parker Washington community up in arms. Pat, they're definitely going to downvote this show.
60:47Down vote.
60:48>> That's why I said it.
60:48>> Um, let's uh [laughter] let's end the show with this. Give us a big bold 2026 fantasy football prediction. Uh, >> off the top rope, which way you going?
60:59>> Yeah. So, some of these offenses that, you know, we we can't possibly have like one uh or more than one guy in um are
61:07actually going to be like just fine for fantasy actually. And I think the Browns are kind of the number one uh for this
61:14where it's like actually fine to have Fannon and Conpsion and and because they're they're bad and they they chuck it and there's there's there's volume
61:23which is getting kind of harder to find is some of the the good offenses are running, you know, like four tight end
61:30sets there. Do we ever get to where the tight ends split out and we get like spread tight end football? uh you know
61:37there's there's like this movement towards you know you run the ball you play heavy so that you can unlock these these downfield shots but it it's like
61:45harder to find good oldfashioned passing volume and I think teams like the Browns may have that. Um I think the Steelers
61:53might have more passing volume this year now that they've g they moved on from Arthur Smith. I think uh having uh you
62:01know bets on the Steelers potentially multiple bets there like with I like Jaylen Warren I like Jeremy Bernard where he goes I think he goes really
62:08cheap and then I think the Jets discount is getting kind of crazy where you get Omar Cooper going so late uh he he was a
62:16first round pick he's you know he's fallen out to that top 175 picks now and uh Sadique is also a pretty high upside
62:25tight end premium play he's now gotten super cheap. Uh and and so yeah, give me those give me these discounts on the
62:33teams that I are probably going to suck like like you know and it probably will be frustrating but but maybe one or two
62:40of them actually isn't so bad and the it's so like the market's like directionally accurate here obviously to like price down the Jets and the Browns
62:49and stuff but it's it seems like it's gotten out of control this year where you're getting first round picks in Conpion Sadi and Cooper for too cheap.
63:00Um, and and you're getting, you know, a a really high upside target earner in Fannon too cheap. And, you know, you
63:08have uh good good running backs on on both teams that, you know, on the Steelers and, uh, and the Jets and the
63:14Browns. So, uh, the Cardinals is probably the one team I actually am the most nervous about because I'm not sure they'll be as committed to passing as
63:21they were last year. And we have in our heads that they're they're actually going to be high volume. And I'm not
63:27actually I'm not sure that they will continue doing that with the new coaching staff, but um yeah, Browns, Jets, and Steelers, I think, might have
63:34more passing volume and not be quite as stinky as the market thinks.
63:37>> Well, go and get your Browns, Jets, and Steelers, according to Pat.
63:41>> I regret this take immediately.
63:42>> Yeah. Yeah. We're we're going to we're going to clip this one YouTube short.
63:44>> They're just too cheap. They're too cheap.
63:46>> Too cheap. Too cheap. I highly recommend all of Pat's work over at Legendary Upside. If you like shows like this,
63:51stick with us right here. If you're enjoying the podcast, give us a fivestar rating. Write a review. If you're enjoying watching us on YouTube, hit
63:58that subscribe button. Stick with us here at Roto Wire. We're going to help you crush your fantasy leagues this season.

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