0:05Talking fantasy football 2026 with Matt Harmon of Yahoo and Reception Perception. Matt, last year you were very high on JSN. You really were like
0:16one of the more bullish people about a potential JSN breakout with like a increased usage role as the clear end wide receiver one in that offense. What
0:26are your thoughts on JSN this year? It's been a little bit of a mixed bag. When I talk to smart people like yourself, some
0:31people still very much in on JSN as a potential wide receiver one overall. And then there's people a little bit apprehensive about Brian Flores taking
0:39over for Clint Kubiak, the loss of the offensive coordinator. Where do you stand with JSN as you start to develop your rankings at this time of the year?
0:48>> Yeah, well, first of all, if he has any level of regression coming for him, it wouldn't be like a massive surprise just
0:56because what he did last year from a volume hog perspective is pretty unprecedented. You go back to 2015, he has the highest individual team target
1:04share of any wide receiver since 2015.
1:06He's at like 35, I believe over 35% off the top of my head. The other guys that are close up there with him was like
1:14one a DeAndre Hopkins season, a Michael Thomas season, the the record-breaking reception season for Michael Thomas there.
1:21So and and there's actually a pretty healthy gap between JSN and the two and three spot there. Now, Hopkins was one
1:26of those guys that did hold down a 30 plus percent target share. He's like in the top five a couple of years there as
1:33DeAndre Hopkins. So it's not unprecedented that you would see a guy do like a 30 plus percent target share in back-to-back years. And I do think
1:41JSN from a talent perspective is able is is able to do that. I think really the the bigger question Theo is
1:47less about Brian Flores and cuz I think look Kubiak is a really really good play caller and you know, he he pushed almost
1:56all of the right buttons last year from like a scheme perspective, the way they designed things, how they could get to
2:01multiple looks out of the same personnel grouping. I mean, there will be several times where they're in these heavy personnel looks and then they fully
2:09spread the field with those guys. It was it was a really tough offense to defend and I really give Kubiak a lot of credit
2:16for that, but I do think Brian Flores, you know, is an unknown, but comes off the same coaching tree, has a really
2:21diverse background and I think will keep a lot of those same principles involved in the offense. I think there's a reason that he was hired off the same
2:29tree, all of those things. The bigger question to me is less about the coaching and more about just the surrounding players here.
2:36Um, does Tory Horton take a step forward in year two? Does Rashid Shaheed with the full off-season and off of a
2:40contract extension get more in the more involved in the mix here? A.J. Barnes is a really good player, but does like
2:46Elijah Arroyo take a step forward? Like, there is kind of quietly a lot of young players around and JSN's a young player
2:53in his own right, but a lot of young players around JSN and Cooper Kupp in the back end here that could take a step
2:58forward and maybe disrupt the distribution. To me, that's the biggest factor, I think.
3:03>> It's super interesting and I think people are overthinking it a little bit.
3:06Like, you don't do what JSN did last year without being a truly elite talent and sometimes we overthink these 119 catches, nearly 1,800 receiving yards,
3:1610 touchdowns. I'm I'm going to take a bullish bullish approach with JSN. I think anytime you get him in the second
3:23half of the first round, that's a great way to start your draft. If you want to split hairs, like I just had Rich Reebar
3:29on, he has Amon-Ra St. Brown ahead of JSN this year. Like, I think that's okay. We're not like, you know, like ripping our hair out trying to like
3:37explain away that take. Everybody understands what the Sun God is, but I think JSN, it's not a player to fade.
3:43Brian Flores also, there's been some pretty decent vibes with him. Just cuz it's an unknown doesn't mean it's going to be a a I think that's one thing that
3:51we need to also understand. There's been some of these guys who taking over a team that just won the Super Bowl, in my
3:57opinion, he's going to try to keep things pretty steady from the way they were. And I think one variable that we
4:03are not really playing into is Seattle had [clears throat] Zach Charbonnet and Kenneth Walker on day one last year. This year it's going
4:11to be J'Mar Jefferson Price with probably a little bit of George Holani and Emmanuel Wilson mixed in. It's going to be a little bit more even potential
4:19for that's even more wide receiver-centric with JSN leading the way. I think that could be a variable if the running game is a little bit slower
4:26out the gate than we were used to in Seattle. So, I'm completely with you on on JSN. I think he's got
4:32a ton of talent and I think he's a player that we can still rank very, very highly. Let's keep it going. There's one
4:37wide receiver that you seem to be pretty high on versus consensus and it's a player that it sort of just stays there
4:44and I think people are viewing him a little bit more as a structural pick, but does Nico Collins have league-winning potential? He's going as
4:52though around wide receiver nine, wide receiver 10 in most formats right now, which equates to about the end of the second round if you're playing on like
5:01Underdog or FFPC. What do you think a bull case season looks like for Nico Collins this year?
5:07>> I I actually think it's pretty simple.
5:09Like just stay healthy, play all 17 games for Nico Collins. That would be the bull case for him because he's really already done it from a production
5:16standpoint. Since 2023 when CJ Stroud arrived, he's second in the NFL in yards per route run, 10th in the NFL in
5:22targets per route run, and he's sixth in first downs per route run. Like he has been one of the best receivers in
5:27football from a production standpoint since CJ Stroud got drafted. And obviously, that's a big part of this, too. I think I do think Stroud, there
5:35are things he needs to get better at.
5:36There's no question about that, but I also think our memory of Stroud is overly tainted by the last thing that we
5:42saw because the last thing that we saw was one of the worst playoff performances for a starting quarterback since 2007. He's a He's got a bottom 10
5:50success rate for any quarterback that started multiple games in the playoffs since 2007. That was what we saw from CJ Stroud last year. So, I get it. It was
5:57about as bad as it possibly could get.
6:00And I would say that the other moments we saw in primetime like the Seahawks game for CJ Stroud was really disappointing. All that said, he was
6:07still a top 10 quarterback in EPA per play last year sandwiched between Patrick Mahomes and Sam Darnold.
6:12Obviously, that's one of the best quarterbacks of his era and a guy that won the Super Bowl last year. So, and by
6:17the way, like Collins is doing all of this with Stroud as the starting quarterback for the vast majority of these games. So, I don't
6:24think that Stroud is this inhibiting variable even if you aren't as I'm not going to say I'm high on CJ Stroud, but
6:31I am not as worried about him as most people are. Even if you kind of fall lesser than where I'm at,
6:38Collins has already shown he's been able to produce really high-end if not elite wide receiver production in that in that kind
6:45of role with CJ Stroud in this Texans offense. And you know, I I think he's an elite receiver. I think he's a top five
6:51talent at this position. You could sit down and maybe rank him and he comes in at six or seven or whatever, but he's
6:57definitely at the caliber of a top five receiver. I think he's an elite man press coverage beater. He does all this
7:03by the way, not you know, no disrespect to these guys, but not getting moved around like a Puka Nacua or an Amon-Ra
7:09St. Brown or even a CD Lamb. Like he's playing real deal true X receiver putting up these best of league efficiency numbers. What if this year,
7:18second season under Nick Caley, Jayden Higgins' second season, you know, Collins gets moved around a little bit more. The scheme is a little bit more
7:26diverse. Or, you know, while you you you brought up JSN to start this whole conversation, Theo. And everybody's kind of chasing the next JSN, right? Like who
7:34who is it Ladd McConkey? Is it Luther Burden? Are one of these teams that's going to be playing a bunch of heavy
7:38personnel packages?
7:40What if it's Nico Collins? Like and I think that he's a guy that is again talent-wise able to put up that
7:46production and my colleague at Yahoo, Joel Smith, pointed this out in one of his really good videos. When there were two or more tight ends on the field last
7:55year for Nico Collins, which wasn't very often because this team actually barely played any multi-tight-end sets. They actually played a lot more jumbo with
8:03six offensive line, but they drafted a blocking tight end in round two. Collins had a 36% targets per route run when
8:10there was two plus tight ends on the field. I think there will be a lot more two plus tight end sets this year. I
8:15think [clears throat] Higgins is a nice player, but not a massive volume commander. So, yeah, like everything to me other than the health question, which
8:22is a persistent thing for Nico, I think he checks all the box to be a boxes to be a guy that could finish as the wide
8:29receiver one overall if everything breaks right and if not, just finish within the top three.
8:33>> You make a really strong bull argument and I think it's interesting when you mention just stay healthy, people just sort of brush that one aside, but he has
8:40that spike week ability that you never know. Did he miss out on a potential pair of 30 point weeks that would have
8:46made his season even more legendary.
8:49He's had multiple good seasons in a row where we you know, we we keep expecting him to sort of take that next step and
8:55now it almost feels like a post-hype sleeper, but he had back-to-back seasons where it was 17 points per game for back-to-back years. Last year he was at
9:0215 points per game. Last two years at 24 plus to in terms of his his target share. I think he was near 25% last year
9:11and he's been at 15 yards per reception and we all remember it with I think it was the 2023 season when he had that
9:18insane like yards per like yard yards per route run season where it was like Tyreek Hill and him. So, analytically Nico Collins has always been a really
9:27strong one there. Do you have a a bet you're making for a secondary receiver in Houston where it seems like Jayden
9:34Higgins there's enthusiasts and then there's also some people, you know, sort of talking up maybe uh Jaylen Noel, maybe a Dalton Schultz. Is there a
9:42secondary receiver that you think could also be a player that sees our starting lineups at some point this season?
9:48>> I'd like to place bets on both of those guys or like place some chips on either with not being too over indexed on one
9:54or the other. I think just based archetype wise, Jaden Higgins is the favorite to play more snaps than Jaylen Noel. And I was a
10:02little lower than consensus on Jaylen Jaden Higgins as a prospect, and I was higher than consensus on Jaylen Noel.
10:08So, I'm trying not to let my like prospecting bias here come into play, which also that kind of also tells you
10:14like which type of receiver I like more than the other, but I still thought Jaden Higgins was a perfectly fine day
10:19two draft pick and was a guy that I think actually played pretty well the more they used him at Z receiver.
10:25Because I don't think that Higgins, even though he, and this was kind of how the draft pick was build, is like, "Oh, he's
10:30a guy who can play a ton of He basically is Nico Collins, right? Like size speed wise, they look pretty similar, but Nico is
10:38just so flexible and is able to get out of those breaks against man coverage that Jaden Higgins is really not quite
10:44as good at, but if you look at like some of the comparable players for him, we have this new tool on Reception
10:50Perception where you can use historic data bit the historic database and go through everything and see kind of how guys, you know, sort of like who are
10:58their most comparable cases of players I've charted previously. Like he does have some pretty useful comparisons like a Kenny Golladay. If he ends up being
11:05more of a vertical X receiver, he could be like a Kenny Golladay type. I actually think one of the couple more
11:11interesting ones are like Tim Patrick and Adam Thielen, and I don't think those would be like the guys who people think of for for Jaden Higgins, but I
11:19actually kind of like that usage for him as more of a Z receiver who moves around, and I thought he did his best
11:24work in the intermediate area when playing in that role. But I also think Jaylen Noel's really talented and will be probably one of those guys that's
11:31frustrating cuz he doesn't see the field in two receiver sets, but when he's out there can make big plays and kind of
11:37operates in the area in terms of those big post routes and corner routes that CJ Stroud had a really good connection
11:43with Tank Dell when he was healthy. And Dell is a variable in here as well because, you know, despite what people
11:49think because of his size, like he was a pure outside receiver when he was healthy for this team. So, like there's
11:54definitely a chance that it's Nico and then if Dell is healthy, which is a huge if, and I don't even know if I want to
12:00bet on that. All three of those guys kind of rotate that number two receiver spot.
12:04>> Yeah, it's an interesting it's an interesting passing game to take shots on because I do think there could be a
12:08point where there's a secondary pass catcher that we're like using as our wide receiver three, maybe in our flex.
12:14I'll say Jaylen Nowell is really really interesting cuz you can get him in the 18th round on Underdog. It's such a
12:19small bet to make and the idea that he's going to be a complete zero coming out of that that range. It feels like he's
12:25going to have a number of usable weeks.
12:27How usable it remains to be seen, but I think among like 18th rounders, he's a really really fun click. Let's keep the
12:33conversation going, but before we do that what do you have going on this time of year? I mean everybody knows Reception Perception. Yahoo, you guys
12:40made some some big news last week adding adding Hayden and Josh. What is like your schedule looking like these days podcast wise and in terms of the work
12:49getting rolled out?
12:50>> Uh brother, I'm so excited about this season. On at both outlets. Reception Perception right now continuing to roll out player profiles keeping the dynasty
13:00rankings updated. Right now I've got everybody from year one to year four on the site, but there's several more drops to come including at the end of this
13:09month where I'll have a bunch of like big name veterans including Nico Collins who we talked about, Christian Watson will be
13:15among this group of players dropped.
13:17Garrett Wilson, Amon-Ra St. Brown, a ton of big names coming at the end of this month. And then over at Yahoo, yeah man,
13:22adding Hayden and Josh could not be more fired up about it. Like this Yahoo fully doubled down on fantasy football this
13:29off-season, which, you know, I love to see. I'm really excited about it. I'm excited to integrate both of those guys into our show and also, you know,
13:36integrate into their show a little bit as well, too. So, very excited about it, man. I respect the hell out of both
13:41those guys and, you know, it's going to be so fun to work with both of them. So, yeah, I mean, listen, there's a lot of a
13:46lot of really good fantasy content out there. I'm pretty excited about ours and I think people will love it.
13:52>> Yeah, no, you you do a fantastic job and so do those guys and I'm looking forward to the collabs as well.
13:57Let's keep the conversation going here with the wide receiver spot where we constantly talk about wide receivers on new teams. We had a chance to chop it up
14:05earlier this off-season and we talked about the enthusiasm level for Jaylen Waddle. Where are you at now on him? Is it sort of growing?
14:14He's Every single guest I have on seems to like Jaylen Waddle, yet the ADP is staying super affordable. He's currently the wide receiver 23. I feel like I'm
14:25talking about him every single show, so I'm just going to going to step back and let Matt cook a little bit. You can find
14:30my opinion on Jaylen Waddle on like any of my last five episodes. So, go for it, Matt.
14:36>> I think Jaylen Waddle is the most mispriced wide receiver in fantasy football right now. And for the record, I've thought this basically since he got
14:44traded to the Denver Broncos. Like, as soon as he got traded there, I launched him up my dynasty rankings way, way
14:50ahead of consensus there and then I just thought there would be more enthusiasm for Waddle, but, you know, you like you said, you start to see the
14:58early ADPs coming out and he's like wide receiver 21 to at one point 25 and it's just I I don't get I don't get that at all. I
15:07think there's a couple of things that people misunderstand here. The first is, and I think this kind of comes back to
15:12our Nico Collins point, you know, he's one of these guys that's a little bit of like a post-hype sleeper, maybe, in that
15:17Waddle has he he's burned people, I think, from a fantasy football perspective. There's there's no doubt about that. And some of that has been
15:24because of injuries. Like he's kind of constantly on and off the field, you know, with nagging things here or there.
15:29And that's something to monitor. I'm not going to completely wave that away, right? Like they if if it doesn't work out for Waddle, maybe it is an
15:35injury-based thing. But I think the two other things that people misunderstand about him is one just how damn good he is. Like
15:41this is a really, really good wide receiver. Like from a reception perception standpoint, absolutely. Man press coverage, zone coverage, like he's
15:48a really, really high-end route runner that wins at all three levels of the field. And even from production standpoint last year, he ranked eighth
15:55in first downs per route run among receivers with 200 plus routes, 12th in yards per route, 11th in successful targets per route. And then he's about
16:04to get a massive volume boost this year as well. Like I the Broncos were fifth in plays per game last year. The Dolphins ranked dead
16:12last. Like that's why he didn't have this massive raw stat season after Tyreek Hill went down. But the efficiency was up there among the best
16:20receivers in the league. And that is all while, and this is the other part of the Jaylen Waddle equation I think people
16:26misunderstand Theo, is that Jaylen Waddle, ever since Tyreek Hill got to Miami, has had to play as the outside on ball
16:34receiver. Like the primary X in this offense. Even if the Dolphins offense is a little bit, you know, kind of fun
16:41house mirrors, like blends some of these player deployment and and traditional personnel spots at the wide receiver position. He still is primarily outside
16:49on ball is Jaylen Waddle. In Denver, he's about to move off ball for the first time, you know, in years because
16:56Courtland Sutton is going to hold down that role. And that's going to lead to more layup targets. It's going to lead
17:00to more yards after catch opportunities.
17:02I just think he is about to absolutely cook in this Broncos offense. I think he's so well set up to have a career
17:09year from a production standpoint. It really does kind of remind me of when the Bills traded for Stefon Diggs. Now, I thought Diggs was a better player than
17:16Waddle, you know, in isolation at the time cuz I was probably the biggest Diggs fan on planet Earth based on his reception
17:24perception charting at the time, but you know, he was a guy that was going to a third-year quarterback who, you know,
17:29was a little hit or miss in his first couple of years, I think to put it kindly. And you know, Bo Nix I think is
17:33is good. I thought Josh Allen was good coming out of his second year, but I think these are two guys who could
17:38actually kind of rise their career ceilings together here with Bo Nix and and Jaylen Waddle just like the Bills did with Stefon Diggs and Josh Allen.
17:46>> You're not the only one to sort of to make that comparison. Davis Webb also made that comparison. So, it's like
17:52>> I love it.
17:52>> Davis Davis Webb came out and said that one. Um that's that's awesome that you brought it up. And if you think about
17:57like the trajectory for Diggs, Diggs was coming off of like a high-end wide receiver three season. It was him and Thielen in Minnesota. And then he gets
18:07to Buffalo. He was like a sixth-round pick. So, there's a lot of like parallels here. And when we think of what Jaylen Waddle is, he has 142 target
18:16under his belt, but that was his rookie year when it was like a lower adot role, kind of ton of passes around the line of
18:21scrimmage. He hasn't had another season with more than 117 cents.
18:27I feel like Denver there's a chance that we see a career high. I think 150 targets is in the wheelhouse for him,
18:33which makes him one of the just the easiest players to sort of talk about in this range.
18:37Here's the devil's advocate. There's some smart people out there that I don't necessarily agree with that are sort of on the this makes Courtland Sutton the
18:45value. Uh therefore, like this is going to be stylistically going to create some matchups for Courtland Sutton and Courtland Sutton's production could be
18:54close to Jaylen Waddle's. I think that's a little crazy considering what they gave up for Waddle, the age difference, and sort of what Sutton was last year
19:02where guys like Troy Franklin were challenging him at times usage-wise.
19:06Where do you stand on that one? Does your enthusiasm for Waddle make you a little bit pessimistic when it comes to
19:12Sutton, or is he still a guy you'd consider, Matt?
19:16>> I think the problem with Sutton is just like it's less about him and more of the ADP range that he goes in. I just don't
19:22find I think he has a higher floor than the guys who go maybe 10 positional spots after him, but I don't think the
19:28ceiling is any higher than the guys who go right after him. So, I just kind of end up passing on that range of wide
19:33receivers in drafts and typically going for the next tier down. But, I think the you hit the nail on the head there when
19:39you brought up the Troy Franklin example. Like I think Courtland Sutton is was clearly the best wide receiver in Denver last year, but Troy Franklin at
19:48times was getting those targets just because of one, like kind of the areas that Bo Nix likes to operate in. One,
19:54and and then two, kind of the way that Sean Payton wants to use that speed Z slot receiver, which is the role that
20:00Waddle's going to play in. It's just really hard to dominate targets consistently when you're a non-elite X receiver, which is what Courtland Sutton
20:07is. He's an X receiver and he's definitely not on the elite tier. I just think Waddle is several tiers better than Sutton, more explosive, and his
20:14career is still I think trending upwards. Sutton is unfortunately going the other direction.
20:17>> Yeah, I'm with you on that one. Sutton I've mixed in some in best ball. I don't see him as a guy I'd target in redraft.
20:25Interested in Bo Nix though. I think Bo Nix is an interesting player right now.
20:29He's sort of in a in a this QB2 range, and I don't think enough is being factored in about the improvements that
20:35they've done offensively for him multiple seasons now, and this is a huge like push the chips in move with Jaylen Waddle for a team that was very close to
20:43a Super Bowl last year.
20:45Let's continue talking wide receivers, and we'll go with a pair of teammates here. We talked about Jaylen Waddle at wide receiver 23, Luther Burden right
20:53next to him at wide receiver 22. Like everybody seems to be in on Luther Burden right now. And then Rome Odunze
20:58at wide receiver 29, a little bit more polarizing, where there are some people sort of not really loving the the with
21:05the foot, and then gravitating towards the year two guys in Loveland and Burden and sort of a dude say being viewed as
21:13kind of a structural maybe even a purgatory pick in his range. Do you think that it's a dude say is a great
21:19value or you gravitating towards Burden or you open-minded to drafting both of them?
21:24>> I am open-minded to drafting both of them, but um I think that the answer here is just these guys should be a lot closer
21:30together than where they are right now.
21:32I don't really see why there should be this massive gap between between Luther Burden down to Roma Odunze. I mean I think that if you look at the first
21:39eight weeks of last season, here there's a honestly Theo, I'm I actually would love for you to push back on me on this one
21:46because I'm I'm a massive Roma Odunze fan and and I want to know if I'm compromised here.
21:50Um but I think that a lot of the arguments that are pushing Odunze down outside of like the questions about his
21:56health because while I don't see that it it's this massive negative just because like here's here's the reality like if he had never said the new normal thing,
22:04would we even be talking about the foot?
22:05I would guess not because he's a full participant not in offseason practices.
22:09His head coach says he looks great. I don't even think it would be a talking point, but I think because he said like
22:14one transparent thing, it's at least worth monitoring. I don't want to completely yada yada that, but I think other than that, the arguments against
22:22Odunze just don't really stand up to merit here. I mean in the first eight weeks of last season, he was a wide
22:27receiver 11 in points per game. He was 19th in yards per route run. He was 15th in yards per game and he trailed only
22:33Amon-Ra St. Brown, Michael Pittman, DeVonta Adams, and George Pickens in touchdown catches. Like the breakdown the breakout was very much happening and
22:41you know, kind of one of the pushbacks you hear about Odunze is well, he was inherited by Ben Johnson whereas he
22:46proactively picked Luther Burden and Cole Kmet. Well, yeah, the guy he inherited was the ninth overall pick in the draft, has really good film in my
22:54opinion. And then he ran his entire passing game through him in the first part of the season. Now, there's no question obviously Burden wasn't fully
23:01ramped up. Loveland wasn't fully healthy yet, and I don't know that Odunze would have been wide receiver 11 through the entire season, but he very much had the
23:09individual breakout before the foot injury, which then just kind of ruined his entire season. He tried to play through it. It That was really costly to
23:17him, mostly as he told me in February, more so with his like timing and chemistry with his quarterback, which you could certainly feel.
23:24So, then he gets back. He eventually misses time, gets back healthy. Just was never really right last year. And I I
23:30think the question for him is just like what the usage looks like individually.
23:33I do think Burden's role might be more fantasy-friendly, which is why I don't want to totally like push it. And I
23:38think Burden's awesome player in his own right. So, I don't want to like completely push him to the side here, but Burden's My enthusiasm for Burden
23:46doesn't, I think, mean we have to push down Odunze, who could very well end up leading this team in receiving yards and
23:51targets cuz he's a really good player who thrives in multiple roles. Like, that's the other thing is he's not just an X-only receiver in Ben Johnson's
23:59offense. Nobody really just fell into like one bucket last year. Like, the slot guy, the X, the Everybody kind of moved all over the
24:06place to create explosive plays.
24:08>> It's a really interesting argument to have. I'm I'm definitely team Burden right now. You talk about Luther Burden and sort of like the First of all, Ben
24:16Johnson is hyping him any chance he gets. Every single time he talks about Luther Burden, it makes you want to draft Luther Burden. I do agree with you
24:23that I think maybe I was a little bit punitive because Rome Odunze was like so so open with us about the foot. And he
24:30looks awesome running on the treadmill, for sure. And he was out on the field.
24:34There was like the clip of him, I don't know what miles per hour it was at the on the treadmill, but he was going
24:39pretty fast. And >> Yeah.
24:41>> I I think Odunze, like, you talk about the it's sort of like the Emeka Egbuka corollary, where we've seen him put up
24:48huge fantasy numbers. They just happened to be at the beginning of the season.
24:52And what would we have thought of Odunze if he started out last season slowly and then put up those weeks 1 through 7
24:59numbers at the end of the season. I think we'd probably be a lot higher on him. So, he's very interesting.
25:05>> Well, isn't that mostly the argument for Luther Burden, right? Is like he put up the big numbers at the end of the
25:09season. You know what I'm saying?
25:11Although nobody like remembers that he did absolutely nothing in the playoffs and actually was, you know, kind of a mess in the playoffs as well. Not that I do
25:18do they was doing much either. Really was like DJ Moore ironically enough who's not longer on the team. But that's the thing here. Like I don't think you
25:24have to participate in the culture war of like, oh, it's this guy or that guy cuz it's pretty much going to be these
25:29three guys. You know? Like it's going to and I don't think that one of them will just run even even close level I don't
25:36think we'll just like run away with the target leader here. I think it'll be pretty spread out between these these top three guys.
25:42>> It's that's a really interesting take.
25:44Like sort of when you look at the the other wide receivers they have on the roster. Guys like Kalif Raymond, guys
25:50like Zay Flowers Thomas. I think that I do do they and Burden both have like massive contingent upside where if one
25:57misses time, the other would would go into like this huge role. And then it on the on the same flip side, Loveland
26:03would also move up. I think it's just an offense that we want to take shots on.
26:08When you sort of look at Luther Burden and again, the sample size of him putting up strong fantasy numbers was a
26:14lot smaller than I do do they too. But when you look at Luther Burden, do you see potentially Amon-Ra St. Brown type usage light with
26:24maybe some like Jameson Williams stuff mixed in? Or is it like a new archetype?
26:28Cuz people always gravitate towards like Ben Johnson offense finding like guys that have thrived in it previously. And like through your research on reception
26:37perception, when you look at Burden, do you think that this is going to be something where it looks like something in the past or is it something brand new
26:45in this Ben Johnson offense?
26:46>> I think it's going to be something brand new. Like that's been my thing.
26:50I think really I always try to push back against the like this role in the offense cuz usually like the Amon-Ra St. Brown role
26:58was created cuz Amon-Ra St. Brown is really good, you know, and like they built the role around what he does. And
27:02by the way, like that's been a moving target for Amon-Ra St. Brown throughout the course of his career. Like his rookie season looks very and and even
27:10like the back half of that rookie year when St. Brown was cooking looks very different than 24 and 25 Amon-Ra St.
27:16Brown. So, I don't think that role really exists in this offense either because the quarterback is extremely different. Like this offense in Chicago,
27:24like if you watch it and then versus like what they did in in Detroit under Ben Johnson, like there's obviously it's the same play caller.
27:31There's a lot of shared DNA, but this is a very very downfield attacking explosive play offense, which I think is really interesting for Luther Burden.
27:42Couple of the comparables that come up for him for from a reception perception standpoint, it's like and this is like the least sexy comparison in the world,
27:50but like it's Robert Woods from the Rams offense, which people are like, "Oh, Robert Woods?" No, that's pretty that's pretty good. We had some great seasons
27:56out of Robert Woods. We had some awesome seasons out of Robert Woods. Like Chris Godwin with the Bucks offense, but not
28:02the like current like the current version of Chris Godwin, like the Tom Brady version of Chris Godwin. Yeah, he's getting a lot of screens as an and
28:09designer touches, but he also was a real impact downfield receiver as well. So, I think that's the thing with like Burden's usage last year and some of the
28:20like catchable target numbers and stuff.
28:21Like that's going to change and it should change because if he's going to fit into this explosive play offense, which I think he basically is going to
28:28replace what DJ Moore was last year. And DJ Moore is running like a very downfield offense downfield route tree, but also getting a lot of screens. Like
28:36the one area where I think that Burden is just miles better than Rome Odunze is with the ball in his hands. And like he
28:43he's like got rare ability to break tackles. So, I think if you are breaking ties in favor of one or the other, you
28:49know, I do think that Burks going to get a lot more of those like designed targets and screens and stuff like that,
28:54but I think his route tree will be much more vertically based than some of the stuff we've seen out of St. Brown in
29:00recent years.
29:01>> Let's talk about Emeka Egbuka, who's up to wide receiver 14. It's been another player like it's becoming kind of comical cuz I anytime I'm talking wide
29:09receivers and I've had a lot of like very smart wide receiver guests, a lot of the conversation uh pivots towards Egbuka, player that I'm very very high
29:17on this year. Wide receiver 14, um and I think there's a lot of people very bullish on him, looking a lot more like
29:25the player we saw at the beginning of the year than over the second half of the season. Where are you at with him?
29:31Uh how enthusiastic are you about a huge year two breakout?
29:35>> I've gotten more enthusiastic the more I've thought about it. Um this is where being like a total receiver dork uh
29:41comes in handy here is that I just think there's a couple obviously last year Emeka Egbuka starts off the season unbelievably hot and then went about as
29:51cold as anybody. I mean, his splits were almost as dramatic as Rome Odunze, except there wasn't like a multiple you know, absence with the foot injury like
29:59we saw with the Odunze.
30:00Egbuka played through a hamstring injury though. I think that's a massive variable here. In addition to Baker Mayfield being banged up and people
30:06don't talk about this enough, the Bucks offensive line was just never what it should have been last year either.
30:12Tristan Wirfs banged up to start the year. Like Graham Barton was one of the best centers in the NFL and he was
30:15playing left tackle to start last season. In addition to just other injuries Cody Mauch, like other injuries across the offensive line. So, I think
30:23just health luck could go the way of the Bucks and therefore trickle down to Egbuka this year, but to me the biggest
30:28variable and this is where the receiver dork part of this comes in, I don't want to get carried away with like one coach quote, but Zach Robinson
30:35saying that he sees Emeka Egbuka as the Z receiver in his offense was so refreshing to hear because the other problem for Abuka last year is
30:44that he played so much X receiver outside on ball. Over 70% of his snaps outside in his game sample for reception
30:52perception, over 60% on the line of scrimmage because they had to replace Mike Evans last year. And and Mike Evans is like the X receiver of all X
30:59receivers. So, they basically just threw their talented rookie into that role cuz Chris Godwin was coming back and he can't he definitely at this point of his
31:07career can't play in that role. Jaylen McMillan was also hurt uh for the vast majority of last year. And then their
31:13third receiver was like a combination of Sterling Shepard and Tez Johnson. And like Tez Johnson weighs 150 lb. He ain't playing X receiver. Sterling Shepard,
31:23year 10 in the NFL, he ain't playing X receiver. So, I think Abuka got thrown in that role last year and it just sort
31:28of wasn't very fitting for his skill set cuz he was like a big slot receiver prospect coming out of Ohio State. So, I
31:35think him going back into this Z receiver role where he's off ball, he's moving around, so he's going to take some reps in the slot, some reps
31:42outside. That works really well with what Chris Godwin does as the power slot. Those guys will kind of alternate between flanker and slot, which is
31:48perfectly fine for both of them. But for Abuka, he's going to run a lot of these high percentage big inbreaking routes in
31:54Zac Robinson's offense.
31:56If you look at like Drake London's route tree and Abuka's route tree, like where he wins and think about those big plays
32:02he's making on, you know, digs and posts, that was pretty much what Drake London was doing when he was operating in this Z receiver {slash} big slot
32:10role. So, um I just think Abuka is a really great bet to kind of just explode in year two from a production angle. Uh
32:18I also have him as like wide receiver 14 and very willing to draft him where he goes.
32:22>> Yeah, I'm I think I'm going to have a little I'll just slightly higher than they are and I want to get as much
32:26access as possible. It's like when we're searching for players in this range, I think that we're also in a in a really
32:33good environment to invest in these year two guys because last year fantasy managers got burned on the year-two bet, which has been historically a great bet
32:41for us to make. Like Malik Neighbors last year gets injured, Brian Thomas a huge ADP loser, Ladd McConkey a huge ADP
32:47loser. But I think this year like specifically Burden and and Ihmir Smith-Marsette and then McMillan's interesting. We we didn't really put him
32:55on the sheet. Are are you kind of, you know, in or out on McMillan this year, kind of open-minded to him when looking
33:01at sort of the big three year-two guys?
33:04Uh we I've heard some bullish takes like Pat Kerrane on him, but then there's some others who are just scared to death
33:09about the offense as a whole, potentially Bryce Young. Uh where are you at?
33:14>> Open-minded, but wish he wish he went later, honestly, for Terrace Marshall McMillan. Um I really like Jaylen Coker.
33:21I also think they're one of these teams that are going to go away from the trend, which I think is actually going
33:25to be good for Bryce Young. And what I mean by that is I think this is the team that could really like spread the field
33:31with with a ton of wide receivers.
33:33They're very invested in their wide receiver position. Obviously, Terrace Marshall McMillan was the 10th overall or was a top 10 pick. They extended
33:39Jaylen Coker, who's a baller. Like I'm one of the biggest Coker heads that you would know. Um they take Chris Braswell
33:46in round three. They don't really want to give up on Xavier Legette. I actually think Chris Braswell um being in the mix is key for Terrace
33:53Marshall because he can kind of be that vertical stretch receiver that clears space for Terrace Marshall, which I think I remember I I talked to McMillan at the
34:02Super Bowl and he was like, "Look at what, you know, look at what these offenses do for JSN. Look at what these
34:07offenses do for Puka Nacua. You got to move your number one receiver all around." Which, you know, in my experience talking to players for the
34:12last 10 plus years is like that means I want to do that. Let me do that. So I actually think that will happen more for
34:18McMillan in year two, which I think is good. Um the question is just like Bryce Young, obviously. Now, I do think Bryce,
34:25his his efficiency out of empty last two years ago in 2024 was extremely good. He actually had more attempts out of empty. That's when there's just
34:33nobody else in the backfield with him.
34:34It's all like wide spread everything out.
34:37He actually had more attempts in 2024 out of empty than he did last year, which is crazy cuz he got benched in his
34:42second season and he mostly played the full season last year. So, I kind of go both ways on on this whole Terrace
34:48Marshall McMillan thing. Like I could talk myself into good outcomes. I could also talk myself into outcomes where he's just a really really frustrating
34:54pick because he's surrounded by other good players, because Bryce Young is Bryce Young, but I want to be open-minded to the Panthers
35:02offense as a whole and therefore obviously their number one receiver.
35:05>> Yeah, it's an interesting one. I think having a cardio guy like Brazil, if that could end up being the outcome in like
35:10two wide receiver sets, would certainly help him a lot more than than having to deal with like Coker.
35:16It's an interesting offense where Pat made some really strong bull cases on McMillan is just has this alpha profile.
35:24We saw enough last year.
35:26And I wonder where his ADP is going to sort of settle in. Right now it's sort of in that mid-range wide receiver two
35:32land, but there's just so much conviction with drafters on other guys right now. You wonder if McMillan could fall just slightly that he starts
35:39becoming a value. Wide receiver is really deep though this year. So many guys to talk about. Let's quickly talk about Zay Flowers who's up to wide
35:46receiver 15 in ADP. Um obviously the Declan Doyle offense could end up being a benefit to him if they become slightly more pass-happy. And
35:55then he's always one of these guys where we look at positive touchdown regression. He's never had more than five touchdown catches in a season. And
36:04potentially, if they become a little bit more pass-happy, could it be that the target total goes up a little bit? Never
36:11had more than 118 targets in a season.
36:14Where you at on Zay right now?
36:17>> I think Zay is kind of become like very underrated as a receiver.
36:22He's super productive. He checks like all the boxes that the want from the fancy stats, you know, per route and everything like that.
36:29Um, he's I think a really good player in isolation. He beats man coverage. He's actually one of the best zone beaters uh
36:35in Reception Perception for each of the last three seasons. I think he and I I also think he's kind of cut out some of
36:40the mistakes in his game. Like he had a a real and it's not completely perfect.
36:45Like he'll still have like fumbles and stuff like that, you know, poorly timed drops, but he really cut the drops down
36:51last year. He's good in contested situations. He's a guy to me that is more like Amon-Ra St. Brown than like Luther Burden is. His body type,
36:59they're very, very different uh but just like from a role standpoint cuz he gets some of those layups in the short area.
37:04He was better about that, like winning quickly against press coverage. That was the thing that I thought Zay got better at from year one to year three,
37:11certainly. And that really actually to me is how Amon-Ra St. Brown became the full field wide receiver one that he is
37:18now is that he got really much more he got better and was more weaponized like around the goal line because he could
37:25quickly get open against man coverage, which he wasn't really good and that's why I'm saying like St. Brown role, like what are we talking about? Is it this
37:31current version or is it the early version of his career? Because now he's this real good short area man press coverage beater cuz his release package
37:39is so good. His quickness is there. And I think Flowers has gotten into that ballpark as well. So yeah, the key for
37:45him is just touchdowns, but Declan Doyle obviously comes off the same tree as Ben Johnson. He's with Ben Johnson last year. He comes from Sean
37:52Payton's tree, which is where Ben Johnson's offense kind of finds some of its original uh fingerprints and origins and everything like that. So I do wonder if we're
38:01underrating, you know, a potential what? Like seven, eight touchdown season for Zay Flowers? And if he hangs on everything else, like what what is that?
38:09Is that like a is that a top six receiver in fantasy? I mean, he kind of he was that guy last year. He was the
38:15what? He was like wide receiver seven, right?
38:17>> Yeah. No, he he and he he had a lot of backloaded production with which some people didn't didn't like. Yeah, week
38:2218. But >> Yeah.
38:23>> doesn't know that it's like not fantasy relevant. That doesn't matter.
38:26>> [laughter] >> Zay Flowers.
38:27>> Yeah, I know. I'm I'm with you. I've always loved clicking the button on Zay Flowers. I had a couple of early drafts
38:33where I was able to get him like end of the fourth round. Talked about this with Mike Shope. Mike Shope came on the show.
38:38We talked about how we were drafting him a ton. And now he's in like these FFPC drafts, he's like a late third. It
38:45really just comes to Zay Flowers is I like him a lot, but there's a couple players maybe around him that might be
38:50players I gravitate towards. Let's talk about Rashee Rice. Uh this is another kind of polarizing click for people. The Chiefs offense could look very different
38:58this year, Matt.
39:00>> Yeah, I think it it has to look really different cuz if it looks like it did last year, that's bad. Like this was not
39:05a good offense relative to expectations last year. And one of their biggest things to fix that was to get Kenneth Walker in the mix. And I think that
39:15Kenneth Walker sneakily I think actually I mean it it has to change the complexion of their offense and has to change the complexion of their passing
39:23game as well. Over the last two seasons combined, Kansas City had a 2.9% explosive rushing rate on running back runs. That was obviously dead last in
39:32the league. The The two teams ahead of them for 31st and 30th were at 5.3%.
39:39So they're like several standard deviations down at 32 is Kansas City. So their run game was obviously pathetic.
39:46They bring in Kenneth Walker who is one Say what you want about him. He brings explosive plays to the table. And I do
39:54wonder if that ends up kind of changing the complexion of their passing game, which was very like get Rashee Rice these manufactured touches underneath.
40:03Since 2023, I think I think I do think this is like a rather crazy stat. Uh so since 2023, which obviously by the way, that's when
40:11Rashee Rice came in the league. Rashee Rice has been one of the most productive receivers per route in that span. There
40:17are 112 receivers who have run 600 routes since the 2023 season. Rashee Rice's 4.69
40:26air yards per target is 112. So, dead last. The players around him, Greg Dorch 5.23, Malik Washington 5.3, Khalil
40:36Shakir 5.4. Like these are the only guys in that span under six. And you just don't really run a healthy passing game
40:44through this type of player for the long term. And that's not to take anything away from Rashee Rice who's way better
40:49than all of those guys I just listed obviously off there. He's a much bigger, he's faster. He's actually a really, really good zone beater. But he is kind
40:57of in the same archetype of a guy like Khalil Shakir. And the Bills, I mean they use Shakir a good bit, but not as
41:04much as Rice gets used because their run game is really good. So, I do wonder if adding Kenneth Walker kind of changes
41:10the complexion of the run game for a guy like Rashee Rice and hurts his like kind of I think over-inflated target total
41:17relative to his contributions to the offense last year.
41:20>> I think you nailed it. I think if I'm clicking the button on a Kansas City Chief, I want it to be Kenneth Walker
41:24this year. Especially we're talking about a player, you have to use top 36 draft capital on Rice even if he falls a
41:30little bit. And when you talk about that like the 4.69 like average What was he What was the the >> Air yards per target.
41:38>> Air Yeah, okay. That's I mean we're talking about that's basically an extension of the run game. That's like let's use this guy because we can't
41:45effectively run the ball like we want and we'll have this sort of PPR scam. Um I'm think I'm out on Rashee Rice this
41:51year. I have him a little bit lower. And when I look at guys who could get a commanding amount of targets, sort of be
41:58a PPR scam in like their their own light, I look at guys like Chris Olave I can get cheaper. There's There's other
42:04players I can go towards where it doesn't feel like having this huge like change agent like Kenneth Walker is going to be. I think Eric Bieniemy
42:12taking over as the play caller. He seems to really like Walker as well. And the Chiefs paid Walker a tremendous amount
42:18of money. So, Walker for as long as he can hold up is going to be I think a very productive player and a player that
42:24we should be clicking the button on in the second round. Talking about the wide receivers, one player who you were down
42:29on last year as a potential regression guy, A.J. Brown. Now the vibes are getting a little bit better in New England. Do you find yourself sort of
42:38being more open-minded to him now or are you still on there's other guys I want to draft inside of round two?
42:44>> God, I just wish he was like a round cheaper, A.J. Brown, to account for some of the risk that I think we saw last
42:49year.
42:50Now, some of I think of his season last year, especially the beginning, was really hampered by the hamstring injury that he was dealing with at the time. I
42:59wrote about this in his reception-perception profile. If you look at like his first-half success rates and then the back half, like it's
43:06really bad in the first half. It's definitely better in the sec- second half, but it's still kind of a tick down
43:11from prime and peak A.J. Brown. Now, prime and peak A.J. Brown is a top-five top-three receiver in the NFL. So, if
43:18he's in some level of decline, I mean that wouldn't be surprising because he's a 29-year-old receiver with multiple tons of lower body injuries. I mean, he
43:27came into the league with red flags due to his knees. He's getting his knee drained twice every week leading up to
43:33the Super Bowl last year or a couple of years ago.
43:36I wouldn't be surprised if he's in some level of decline. The problem with receiver decline theo is that it just doesn't really follow any particular
43:43rules. Like sometimes, you know, then I wrote about this in the profile, you see examples of a guy like Allen Robinson
43:49where the decline just like like he shows a little bit of signs his prior is is final year in Chicago and
43:54then he just right off the cliff that next year.
43:56And I think that's, you know, a problematic outcome. Dez Bryant's another one that like once it was gone, it was gone.
44:02You know, but then there are other guys like Stefon Diggs that age gracefully.
44:05There are other guys like Keenan Allen who age gracefully. And I do think like for A.J. Brown, I'd like to not see him play X receiver.
44:13I'd actually kind of like to see them continue to use Romeo Doubs there, you know, maybe even keep Keishawn Boutte as
44:18kind of a sacrificial X on the roster.
44:19Kyle Williams was a big-time sacrificial X last year, which is not good for his future outlook if he's going to continue
44:25to play in that role, but might be good for A.J. Brown who actually registered his highest rate of off-ball snaps his
44:33final year in Tennessee with Mike Vrabel. So, I do kind of wonder if that's the role for Brown. I think that
44:38could actually help his outlook this year.
44:40I just am probably never going to be the guy that drafts him in the second round.
44:43Like I think he would to account for the risk-reward factor, cuz there's obviously a reward factor here, I would say he's more of a third-round pick than
44:50a second-round pick, which is just why he's probably not going to end up on a lot of my teams.
44:53>> Yeah, and if for me, I I'm very bullish on A.J. Brown, but I like Drake London more, and A.J.'s flipped him in a bunch
44:59of these uh formats now. So, I I can get Drake London and get a little younger, but I will have some exposure to A.J.
45:05Brown. You make a fantastic point about wide receivers where it's not like this slow drip. It's not like maybe a quarterback or a tight end where you see
45:12like, you know, drip, drip, drip, and then all of a sudden he retires. Wide receiver or these guys go from being
45:19like locked-in stars for us in fantasy to unplayable very quickly. 2024 Cooper Kupp end of the summer was steaming up.
45:28He was like a one-two turn pick in some formats.
45:31Early second, the enthusiasm was crazy.
45:33It was like, "Puka Nacua year two, or do you want to just go back to Cooper Kupp?" And then last year, Tyreek Hill
45:40was like wide receiver 15 this time of the year, maybe maybe a little lower in some formats, but he was like right
45:45around wide receiver 15. Calvin Ridley had steamed up. Both those guys done.
45:49So, like we get so comfortable with guys. I've been singing the praises of A.J. Brown, and there's people who are all over Davante Adams, all over Mike
45:58Evans, but Father Time is undefeated when it comes to wide receivers for the most part, except for like Jerry Rice and a couple guys like that. So,
46:05everybody falls apart at some point.
46:07Talk about a sleeper wide receiver, Josh Downs. Wide receiver 42 right now in ADP 43. I just looked on Underdog, most
46:16recent ADP.
46:17Can he be on the field in two wide receiver sets for Indianapolis and finally have like a season where we saw it in 2024
46:26where there was like some very effective spike weeks where he played well with Anthony Richardson at times and then we saw him doing well and
46:34sort of it was it was like a half the season he put up really big numbers kind of deal.
46:39Ended up with 72 catches that year. Had 68 catches as a rookie. Then last year sort of not a whole lot. Could this be
46:47like a post type sleeper year? And I will say Josh Downs also a free agent.
46:51So, 2027 he could be somewhere else.
46:54You've been a Downs guy for years. Where are you at this year on him?
46:59>> I don't see why he can't play in two receiver sets from a skill set standpoint. Obviously, size is a limiting factor here, but I mean, Theo,
47:06I don't know if you you've seen these the quads on the videos that he's he's he's been in lately. He looks like he's
47:11put a little bit of weight on here. I don't know that he weighs 171 lb anymore. I bet he's a little bit closer
47:15to like 180, which is you know, good enough, okay?
47:19I think that he from a skill set standpoint, he is much more to me in like the Lad McConkey, Tyler Lockett
47:26bucket of receivers and not just like a little pop gun slot. And like Tyler Lockett was a guy who played every down,
47:33you know, two receiver sets, the whole deal.
47:36Um, obviously, if you're thinking about Lad McConkey and Tyler Lockett, that actually might give you pause at um, you know, Lad McConkey's very
47:42inflated ADP. Good player, but like is he ever going to have 140 targets? And I think Josh Downs probably not a 140
47:47target type of player as well cuz he's had injury concerns and everything like that. But, I do really like the way that
47:55even last year there were it's a very limited uh sample size but my colleague at Yahoo tweeted this out Nate Tice where he put a lot of
48:03he put the plays like Alec Pierce and Josh Downs on the field in two receiver sets together and Shane Steichen did a
48:08really good job of kind of designing like slot-ish looks for Josh Downs to get explosive plays on in-breaking routes for both of those guys. And I
48:17think that's you know very possible this year and and if it's not Josh Downs like who's it going to be? Nick
48:22Westbrook-Ikhine like Ashton Dulin I I don't think so. I think Downs is going to be on the field in these two receiver
48:29sets. I think he's a good player that the team really believes in that's why Michael Pittman's not there anymore because of their faith in Josh Downs.
48:36And look with Alec Pierce coming into the year banged up and Daniel Jones also coming in banged up like that deep ball
48:43efficiency might not be there and they might have to kind of look for more layups which will certainly mean more Josh Downs targets.
48:49>> Yeah, I think you you you nailed it with sort of the the environment he's in where the ankle surgery for Alec Pierce
48:55is he slow out the gate and then if Daniel Jones can't like plant and and find Alec Pierce deep downfield maybe
49:03creates a little bit more for Downs.
49:04He's just interesting to me. I don't know about like the ceiling aspect but if I'm searching for wide receiver depth I think he's a really fun click there.
49:11Um you know you get type casted into only talking about wide receivers on a lot of these shows because you do it so
49:17well and make sure you check out Matt's work. It's it's absolute fire. It's going to make you better playing fantasy football but give us a quarterback, a
49:26running back, and a tight end that you think are very good values right now heading into redraft season. We're actually really in redraft season but
49:34people are still trying to formulate their There's everybody's like loving their tiers. They're loving so many guys. Give us a couple of guys that you
49:41think are just easy clicks for you.
49:44>> All right, let's start quarterback here cuz I'm curious just kind of how you're attacking this Chargers offense because you know I came into the off season
49:51being like okay if there's any receiver who's going to be this year's JSN, it's going to be Ladd McConkey." Because like some of the
49:56variables are very similar for those guys. They're sort of slot-ish body types, but because, you know, this was part of my big thesis on JSN last year,
50:04he is like a dominant man coverage receiver. He's so good at beating man coverage. He can go from being a slot to
50:09being an outside receiver, which is, by the way, why I want to keep my imagination open for all of these like
50:14Josh Downs, Jayden Reed types. Like we just watched a great a great receiver go from being a slot-only player to more
50:21than that simply because he was just used more and we saw what JSN did. And I think Ladd McConkey could be that guy.
50:28At the same time, I will also kind of looked at the ADP on Quentin Johnston and seen his annual improvement. Like
50:33people still talk about Quentin Johnston like he's the guy that he was his rookie year when he was one of the worst
50:37receivers I've ever charted.
50:39He's still a very flawed player, but he's much improved. You know, I look at the tight end room. I look at this and
50:44then it just kind of clicks for me.
50:47Maybe we just take the quarterback, right? Like we're excited about, you know, maybe the explosive play potential for Quentin Johnston. We're excited about the
50:53breakout potential for Ladd McConkey.
50:56What if it's just like take Justin Herbert, the guy who distributes the football to all these different players?
51:01And by the way, there's some decent depth in that wide receiver room, too.
51:03Like Trey Harris is interesting. Brandon Thompson they take. Those guys could maybe cannibalize each other a little bit. Again, the guy that's throwing them
51:10the football is Justin Herbert. So I I just look at where he's going and I kind of have been passing on early
51:16quarterbacks in favor of some of these late round quarterbacks and I think Herbert's a really good target.
51:20>> getting that group.
51:20>> No, I'm with you. I've talked about Herbert as an easy easy click. We think this could end up being like a career
51:25year for him. He also had nearly 500 rushing yards last year. So he's displaying like a willingness to run and a little bit of mobility that a lot of
51:34people talked about like his athleticism coming out, but it's been like every year improvement as a runner. We have We could end up seeing like a legendary
51:42efficiency season for him. If this run game is is as effective as we think it could be with Mike McDaniel. Herbert's
51:49got the weapons, he's got the offensive scheme that he could end up with a really high number of passing touchdowns. I don't think we're going to
51:56get back to like 2022 where he had like 700 pass attempts, but the pass attempts I think will be good enough and the
52:02efficiency could be excellent. So, Herbert's a player that I have a ton of an an underdog and I've been drafting in
52:08like FFPC drafts because you can get him in like rounds 10, rounds 11. Then there's other formats like NFFC where I've seen him as like the QB5 because
52:19people are chasing the the stacks and the correlation. Then I sort of pause, but if you're in a format where you're
52:25getting Justin Herbert as like right now he's QB9 on Underdog, I think that's perfect. QB9, QB10, QB11, Herbert is not going to hurt you there and he could end
52:34up being a huge winner.
52:35Um, I think he's a player that you can build correlation with or you can just take him by himself. Um, such a high
52:41floor guy. If And the offensive line Slater, Alt, all the guys they've gotten in the interior, then you look at like
52:48Alec Ingold, they add Kolar, they add in Njoku. You talk about the wide receiver quality there. Add Keaton Mitchell. Like stylistically, they can do everything
52:57Mike McDaniel wants to do. So, totally in there with you. Talk about a tight end here cuz we were in lockstep on this
53:03one and this is a player that I talked about so often that I've had to like pump the brakes a little bit cuz people
53:08at Fantasy Points were making fun of me and then a couple RotoWire people sort of making fun of me for how much I love
53:13Isaiah Likely, but guess what guys? Matt Harmon Isaiah Likely, too, this year.
53:18>> Listen, don't let those guys talk you up.
53:20>> I think Brush the haters off your shoulders, Matt.
53:22>> That's right. Yeah, let your let your Isaiah Likely flag fly, Theo, okay?
53:26Because here's the thing, when you're looking for breakout tight ends or tight ends to outkick their ADP, whatever you want to say, you want to find a guy
53:34who's going to finish second or first, but you know, even second on his team in targets cuz that's just unusual.
53:41Especially like tight ends leading their teams in targets is extremely unusual just cuz of the way that NFL passing games and progressions are set up. You
53:48typically want to find explosive plays to the boundary receivers. I mean, I even asked Trey McBride this at the Super Bowl this past year. I was like,
53:55you know, it's go talk like we just laid out that whole theory for him. Right?
53:59Like typically, we don't see NFL offenses run through a tight end. Why did this offense last year run through you? And he's like, I don't really know
54:06how often I was the first read. I was just getting the football a lot, which I thought was an interesting quote from
54:10the guy who who bested all tight end production last year by a mile. So, it's just unusual to see that tight end be first or second in
54:18receiving targets. But, you look at the receiver core in in New York, and Likely's got a real good shot to do it
54:23here because I love Malik Nabers. He was kind of trending towards being that, you know, breakout tier one receiver, like a
54:31guy to truly be elite last year.
54:33Based on the injury, where where he's at right now, the the tenor and tone around that, I don't know that we're going to
54:38see him in the first part of the season, and I don't think we will see Malik Nabers' best, unfortunately, until 2027
54:43again. I I just That's just like the way I'm preparing to to see it. The other receivers in this room, decent role players, no real needle
54:51movers, could likely lead the Giants in targets this year. I think it's really possible um he could be one of these
54:57kind of classic second contract breakout players at this position, which is kind of like the old rule of tight ends, that
55:04they break out on their second contract after they figure out the game a little bit. So, yeah, I think Likely's going to
55:08be on the field a ton for a coach who obviously knows what like knows what he's good at. John Harbaugh brought him
55:13in here. So, I I do think Likely, outside of the top five tight ends, is a really attractive target.
55:18>> It's such an easy click to make, and you talk about like your classic move tight end. People bring up Theo Johnson as a
55:25negative, or like where Theo Johnson's going to split usage. I actually think it's a positive because if the wide receiver room is what we think it's
55:32going to be, they're going to be in two tight end sets a lot, and Likely can be used almost like a big slot at times. Um
55:39he's had and also it's not a theoretical asset. We've seen him take over a football game before. Um it's just been
55:47a incredibly small sample size, but I think there was a big market for him. He chose to go with his former head coach.
55:53I think there's expectations of usage and I think the production's going to be excellent. I think it's a career year for him.
55:59Could he be tight end six or something like that? I think that's in the wheelhouse and you're getting him right around like tight end 15. Uh so very
56:06strong stuff. Give us a running back.
56:08You've got like some unknown running back no one's ever heard of or used in their fantasy lineup, right Matt?
56:13>> That's right. Nobody's ever heard of this player before. Uh Derrick Henry.
56:17Listen, I'll just admit this.
56:20I'm going to be the last guy on the Derrick Henry bus. All right? When the when the ship is sinking into the bottom
56:25of the sea, I'll be going down with the ship like the captain of the Titanic.
56:29Okay? That's going to be me. I'll be the last guy to give up the ghost on Henry.
56:33But I certainly don't think this is the year to do it. Like this this is the year where you should still be drafting
56:38Derrick Henry who right now has an ADP outside of the top 20 picks and like what's the where are the I know
56:46it's it's obviously he's an older running back the whole deal, but on paper where are the signs of decline from Derrick Henry last year? He
56:53actually saw his yards before contact dip dramatically last year. Went down from 2.4 in 2024 to 1.6 on his runs last year. However, his
57:04yards after contract actually went up by a a slight degree 3.5 to 3.59. So I don't think that there is any real sign
57:13that Henry started to wear down or decline last season. He actually had some of his best games towards the end of the season.
57:19And they didn't bring in any competition for him other than like a rookie running back in Adam Randall who I know my buddy
57:25James Cook really likes, but he's a day three draft pick. Like is he going to come in here and take the crown from
57:29Derrick Henry? I'm going to go ahead and bet against that. So especially if you're building wide receiver heavy teams, if you're one of these in the one
57:35of these formats where you can get a ton of wide receivers in full PPR, you're starting three plus of these guys, I
57:40love having Derrick Henry as kind of that hero RB in those builds cuz I like the offense with Declan Doyle potentially, you know, kind of bringing
57:49a lot of Ben Johnson stuff over, some under center, some zone concepts that fit Derrick Henry very well.
57:55He's a he's he's an outlier. He's always been an outlier. I think he'll be an outlier once again and be a really good
57:59fantasy pick this year.
58:00>> Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, really the only reason to fade him is 33 years old.
58:05>> He's old, yeah. If you're split If you're splitting hairs, Todd Monken was really good for Derrick Henry, but I don't think an offensive coordinator is
58:12going to come in and be like, "We're not using the big dog." And he could also regress in the He could regress in the
58:17touchdown I mean, in the yards in the yardage department and then just score a ton of touchdowns and then you've got
58:22the factor with like if you're out on Lamar Jackson this year or you think Lamar Jackson could at least be a little
58:29bit less unhappy than we've seen for every other year for Lamar Jackson, then that's probably a net positive for Henry as well. So, structurally he makes sense
58:36and and like Matt said, you can draft a Jamarr Chase or Puka Nacua follow or Amon-Ra St. Brown or JSN follow up with
58:43Derrick Henry in round two and sort of build out a hero running back build there. So, really strong stuff. Make sure you check out everything Matt's
58:52doing, Reception Perception and on Yahoo. Make sure you check out a podcast, check him out on YouTube and stick with us here at RotoWire. We're
58:59dropping daily shows all July long.
59:01We're going to help you crush your leagues this year.