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VideoFrom Underdog Fantasy Football - Josh & Hayden

Target These Second Year WRs ✅ 2026 Fantasy Football

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this video and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 11 min

Duration

Estimated from transcript

Jun 11, 2026

Published

Thu, June 11, 2026

6

Player insights

5

Players mentioned

Topics

Luther BurdenAmon-Ra St. BrownBaker MayfieldChris GodwinJalen Coker

Player analysis

Player insights

6

Amon-Ra St. Brown

PositiveUsage4:00

Analyst cites St. Brown as example of receiver with outside-to-inside versatility that creates mismatches and leverage advantages through motions and stacks.

Baker Mayfield

NegativeProjection14:45

Baker Mayfield goes on stretches of looking like one of best QBs in league but then falls off cliff with miscommunications, mistiming, and inaccurate passes.

Chris Godwin

PositiveRole17:15

Debate exists whether Chris Godwin or Amechi Ibuka will be the Cooper Cup-style Z receiver in new Buccaneers offense under Zack Robinson.

Jalen Coker

PositiveRole6:00

Coker is Panthers' second-best wide receiver and unlocks utilization of both him and McMillan as inside-to-outside versatility types.

Luther Burden

PositiveRole18:15

Burden is one of best yards-after-catch threats in game; Ben Johnson understood assignment with 25% of targets being screens, getting him in motion to maximize strengths.

PositiveProjection19:15

Burden will be schemed-up guy in Cardinals offense; rest of game maybe more up and down but better than expected coming out of Missouri.

Full transcript

Episode Transcript

696

0:00For years, the fantasy football cheat code was to draft second-year wide receivers. Then 2025 hit. Vlad Makoni, Brian Thomas Jr., Malik Neighbors, all

0:09punches straight to the face. So that means on this show, we have to get it right. And this is a fascinating group,

0:16Hayden, because there are three secondyear wide receivers drafted in the top 21 overall at the position. And then there's a massive drop down to the wide

0:24receiver 49 in drafts where the rest of the eight or so names we're going to discuss here today land. I did feel like

0:30there was a a pretty big tier uh break between the top guys and everybody else.

0:34I think that there's two guys at the very top that I can see being like top 24 picks as we go into the next off

0:41seasonason. I think they have excellent tape, great situations to dominate targets, and then the next group of guys are all fun in different ways.

0:48>> Well, this closes our second year breakouts week. We already have episodes on the running backs, the quarterbacks, and especially the tight ends. Hopefully

0:54you've tuned in to every single one.

0:56Appreciate all of you who have, and especially those of you who have hit that subscribe button and left a thumbs up. I mean, just leaving a like on the

1:03video helps it spread to more and more people out there. So, we appreciate it on our road to 175,000 subscribers. So,

1:10how we're going to do this once again, ADP order of how these guys are being drafted on the dog app underdog at this

1:16very moment. So that leads us off to Tedo McMillan, the beginning of the fourth round, the second pick of the fourth round, which is quite a bit

1:23different than, you know, a lot of the year two wide receivers typically we see the end of round one, the start of round

1:28two, but he right now is being selected as the wide receiver 18. So he caught 70 of 122 targets last year for over 1,000

1:35yards, seven touchdowns, offensive rookie of the year. When you went back and rewatched his tape, what did you see?

1:42>> I think he's underrated. Even with those expectations, I think that he has a chance to be one of the best picks in

1:48fantasy. He's my wide receiver 12 on rankings. I moved him up after doing the deep dive here. I knew he was good. I

1:53did not uh remember him being so good as a route runner. He really had like a veteran feel. His work against off

2:00coverage is outstanding. He understands the leverage. If the corner is playing outside leverage, he'll run directly at him then come back to the ball. He can

2:09really dance in off coverage as well. He can sink his hips. He's got this huge catch radius. He doesn't have hands

2:15issues. And then I do think that he has just enough speed on these kind of crossing routes where he can catch the

2:21ball and run. He's got a lot of heart on top of that. I think that he looks very similar to some of the best receivers in

2:27the game. Like Drake London is the one pre-draft that we both talked about. I once again will double down on that.

2:33There's a little bit of Mike Evans to his game. He's not quite as fast speed as Mike Evans. We're talking about a

2:38Hall of Famer. And then even like Jackson Smith and Jig, like some of the the off coverage stuff and the manipulation, there's a little bit of

2:44that here as well. And I just think that the Carolina Panthers offense, if you read between the lines in the offseason,

2:49they might be doing a little bit more spread passy stuff rather than being so uh balanced on offense. And I think

2:55probably the reason why they're doing that is it fits Bryce Young's game. And I think it really is going to fit Tedo

3:01McMillan's game. I think he's one of the best receivers in the league.

3:03>> Yeah. for a guy that is 6'4, like you said, the route manipulation and the defensive back manipulation, it shines out there. I mean, he can twist and turn

3:11some of these defensive backs on comebacks, on out routes, and especially on these dig patterns >> and inside breakers. He's just such an

3:19easy mover at his size. And I understand that this wide receiver one label has gotten a bit gray. I kind of still love

3:26to use it because, you know, it really is a separator of, hey, guys that you build your passing game around and then

3:34some others that kind of shine because of who their play color is or who their quarterback is. Ted McMillan as a rookie

3:40owned 43.3% of the Panthers air yards last year. That was second across the NFL of all veterans and all rookies. I

3:48mean, that's just simply insane stuff.

3:50Now, what can the year 2 leap be here for T-Mac? And for me, it goes not just into his individual skills, but how

4:00actually the usage could impact what he does in year two. I would love for him to be utilized more across the

4:06formation. Like last year, it was almost over 80% of his snaps were outside and on the line of scrimmage. That's kind of

4:13the most difficult stuff to ask of any wide receiver across the league. And so what you see with the CD Lambs or the

4:20Aman Ross St. Browns, you can go further and further down the list with Justin Jefferson, this outside to inside versatility to create mismatches to

4:29create leverage advantages and stacks and motions and all that type of stuff then allows this unlock ceiling in terms of production and like real impact in a

4:38game-to-ame basis. And I think the Panthers are more set up to do that this year than they were last year. see the

4:43same way. They experimented by putting him in the slot a little bit and they did some really fun things with him.

4:47They would throw some like back shoulder kind of slot fades on occasion. They would do like these rub routes where then he would almost run a big wheel

4:53route on the back side of it and he had some big uh plays on that. Like you said, so much of it was just like on the

4:59line of scrimmage x receiver stuff. uh on a lot of their fourth downs and third and short situations like third and two,

5:06fourth and fours, it was explosives to Tedo McMillan down the field because the defense would get really close to the box and then they would send him down

5:14the football field and he would come down with that. He had made some great catches on the sideline as well. So

5:19there's always just going to be a tier difference between, you know, Tedoa and the Jamar Chases and Justin Jefferson, CD Lambs, just because he's not quite as

5:27gifted as an athlete as those guys, but he can rack up a ton of targets, tons of receptions in this one. I think 927

5:34yards in the picking lobby is really selling him short. He cleared that last year and I do think as we see the

5:40Panthers uh maybe get some more shootouts this year and against a a more difficult schedule as we see the offense kind of change no more Rico Dowels type

5:49of stuff. I can see him really exploding. So I think the tape is top 15. I I do think he will have a top 15

5:56fantasy wide receiver season after being the wide receiver 24 last year.

5:59>> Part of why I think it's possible for them to move him around is because of the players that are around him now.

6:04Jaylen Coker after, you know, being named the starter and them trading away Adam Thielen immediately gets injured and misses time. And Jaylen Coker is

6:13easily this team's second best wide receiver and kind of unlocks them to utilize both of those players as inside to outside versatility types.

6:21>> Uh, and then you go and draft Chris Brazzle. Um, >> Tedron McMillan and Jaylen Cooker to some degree were like the vertical

6:27threats on this team. Like Jimmy Horn's not doing that. When Hunter Renfro was starting games at the beginning of the season, he's not doing that at all. And

6:34so now you add Brazil, who at the very least we know we can be a role player and spread some things out and you can

6:41see like these dagger concepts with Brazil going deep and Ted McMillan cutting off of that and Jaylen Cooker's awesome at those inbreaker routes as

6:47well. Um, yeah. I mean, the Panthers haven't had 17 straight games of like being on the same page of the play

6:54callers and the passer and the pass catchers. And I feel like that's what everything is geared towards right now is getting on the same page from week

7:01one and just understanding, hey, this is our group. This is what they do best and these are the concepts. They're going to

7:06be successful. And I think they're going to air it out just downfield 15 plus a lot more than they have been in previous

7:12seasons. One thing I want to bring up to you, actually two things. Okay.

7:15Apparently, Tedrone McMillan, he said this himself, only played last season at 205 lbs, has said that he has gained anywhere from 15 to 17 pounds. He says

7:24of muscle. Uh, I'll leave that to if that's possible in just a few months.

7:28Uh, and that might worry some people, but T-Mac says that this is the weight he played at at Arizona and he just

7:35could not keep it on during his rookie year. I mean, obviously the length of the rookie season and how much more work

7:40you do and all that type of stuff, he just couldn't keep it on. This year, that's his goal. This is what he checked

7:44in around the combine at 220 pounds. So, do you think that 15 pounds can impact him on the field at all?

7:50>> I mean, there's so few reps where he was losing physically that I wouldn't think that's going to matter too much here.

7:55Um, he wasn't like teetering on being too slow. So, I do think him adding some weight I I don't find it that

8:01concerning. I I do remember at Arizona he was just dunking on everybody and we saw that in Glimpses uh as a pro, but it

8:08was not like he's just dunking on everybody like a T. Higgins type of player. He was doing I think a little

8:13bit more than that overall. I think yeah 210 220 I think that's a proper range for him.

8:18>> The other part is he's missed most of OTAAS so far. Uh he says it's a foot injury that he kind of picked up at the

8:25start of this offseason activities. He claims he's not going to have surgery but just you know this time in foot injuries is on people's radars. But if

8:32he's out there on the first day of training camp that uh solves it for me.

8:36Yeah. I mean, if you rank him at wide receiver 12 and he's going as wide receiver 18, that's a sizable difference

8:41than you are with the market.

8:42>> Yep. Yeah. I really I trust him right now.

8:44>> Wow. Maybe some belief in Bryce Young, too. Who knew? Next, just a couple picks later, is Emecha Ibuka, the fifth pick

8:50of the fourth round. He's being selected as wide receiver 20. We know the incredible hot start and we can dive into that in a little bit, but just

8:57overall he led the team with 127 targets, 63 catches on those targets for 938 yards and six touchdowns. Uh that's

9:07pretty incredible looking at that stat line because if you carried over like the first eight games, he was easily going to clear 1,000 yards, was easily

9:15going to clear 10 touchdowns and then it kind of all fell off a cliff. So was it on him? Was it on the offense? Was it

9:21the quarterback? kind of what happened during his rookie season and what do you expect to happen here in year two?

9:26>> I mean, this could be an hour podcast just here. I'll go over some of the splits. So, through week 11, he was the

9:31wide receiver nine on a per game basis.

9:32From week 12 to 18, he was the wide receiver 64. So, that was really, really tough. Uh, what the hell happened? I

9:39think there's a couple explanations.

9:40First, Baker Mayfield picked up some injuries. In week 12, he suffered an AC joint sprain. Uh, that point forward, uh, Amechabuka's catchable ball rate

9:49dropped to 50%. That was the lowest in the NFL from week 12 on. Uh that was above 60% in weeks 1 through 11. So I

9:56think just in general there were some missed targets later in the season. Also in Mecca Ibuka picked up his own hamstring injury in week six. Benjamin

10:05Sock from ESPN, he had a really awesome tweet citing NextGen stats that Ibuka had 11 routes of at least 18 miles per

10:13hour through the first five weeks of the season. then hamstring injury. Only 11 routes the remaining 12 weeks from that hamstring injury. So Baker playing

10:22injured, Amecha playing injured. And then another split want to throw out there uh once again is without Mike Evans he had a 29% target share. With

10:33Mike Evans that was at 19%. That's the difference between being the wide receiver 12 in expected points and the wide receiver 41. Obviously Mike Evans

10:41is no longer there. So, I think if AMCA is going to be healthier this year, if Baker Mayfield's going to be healthier

10:46this year, and we know for sure Mike Evans is out of the way, I want to believe in what I saw earlier in the

10:51season rather than what I saw later in the season. Not to mention the Bucks offensive line was in and out of the

10:57lineup the the entire season. We also have a new coaching staff. Lots to go on here before we even get to the tape,

11:02which I think is a big part of this as well. And the new coaching staff has already said how they plan to utilize

11:08Emecha Ibuka and it's kind of music to our ears where Zack Robinson who was coming from the Atlanta Falcons and spent time with the LA Rams has said

11:16that Ibuka is going to be a Z and by that it's in two wide receiver sets obviously we'll play on the outside uh

11:23will be more of the movement piece and I would expect him to play some slot off of that movement on top of it. That's

11:30awesome. That is music to our ears. I mean, when you think about the Rams offense, some heavy production has come from that spot. And then when you think

11:37about the Atlanta Falcons, when they asked Drake London to kind of be that movement piece, and especially when they got that slot work, that was great. Uh,

11:44I say all that because to me that was a lot of his best stuff was, you know, when he's an on the ground player and

11:52can kind of work in that trash and maximize the free space that is afforded to him because he does, you know,

11:59manipulate some defenders out there with his route running. But I wouldn't say that there's a lot of flashness to his game in terms of high-end athleticism or

12:07like these crazy storytelling routes that are maybe overanimated at times.

12:12He's very sturdy. He's very secure. And if you just get him in a situation that, hey, it's timing and I need to be here

12:21at this point and like look back at the quarterback and the ball's going to be in the correct spot, then I Buuca is one

12:26of the more like trustworthy young wide receivers across the league.

12:30Unfortunately, some other elements around him aren't as trustworthy in this spot.

12:34>> Right. I think the first thing is the Zack Robinson point. We have to just double down on that. He said he's very

12:39similar to Cooper Cup just in terms of the way his brain works with the game of football and Natural Instincts. Remember

12:45in 2022, that's when we're looking at like Cooper Cup as like the triple crown winner. Uh it's the Z role that you

12:52mentioned. That's where AMCA is going to be playing. Uh only 1% of uh AMCA's receptions were screens. In 2022, Cooper Cup had 19% of them. So, we're going to

13:04see an increase in screen usage. also motion. Uh when I went back to watch the tape, remember at Ohio State kind of

13:11inside outside versatility off the line of scrimmage and then like immediately he's just playing x- receiver for the Bucks. Like no motion at all. It was

13:19actually just like exceiver post routes for a lot of the season, which is not what I was expecting. And I thought he

13:25was pretty damn good at them. I thought he had a little bit more pop uh athletically on some of these go balls

13:29than I was necessarily expecting. Um, but based off of his college tape, I knew he was going to be good at the more

13:35Cooper Cup stuff here. And if you're going to get him on more motions and stuff, I think you're going to see more

13:39of this kind of like make you miss toughness that we didn't necessarily see all that much out of achuka. So, I think

13:45all this tied together, I think there's a ceiling here of being a top 10, top five fantasy wide receiver. And to me,

13:52like I got really really high on Amecha Igbuka >> after learning more about the Zack Robinson quotes, watching what AMCA Ibuka was uh doing in a much much more

14:02difficult situation last year than the one I think he'll be in this next season.

14:05>> We already saw, you know, top 10 spurts from him, like stretches of the season that he finished in that area. I don't

14:12know if I can get there for the entire season as a potential top five outcome player because he's tied to Baker

14:16Mayfield. And again, Baker goes on these stretches of looking like one of the best quarterbacks in the league and making some crazy plays. And you even

14:25saw it with some of those deep corners and post that you're talking about where, you know, two defenders would be totally outstretched and it looked like

14:32the pass would be knocked down but just goes right through their fingertips and lands and no one is around him and he

14:37just runs away. That happened on like two crazy long catches, you know.

14:41>> Uh but then in the second half of the season when obviously I was dealing with injuries as you said Baker was as well.

14:48uh you saw just miscommunications, mistiming, just totally inaccurate passes too and it led to a horrible catch rate at 49.6%.

14:57And to me, that's kind of just what Baker is now. Like he'll go on these stretches of being fantastic, as we say,

15:02sack avoidance, downfield targets, all that stuff, and then something just catches up to him where then it almost falls off a cliff. And we get again

15:09other stretches where he kind of throws games away and throws situations away.

15:13But that is not on mechuka. He is dependable. He is an efficient mover. he is consolidated with his movements and everything and so hopefully he can be

15:21kind of just a a safety blanket in all of this stuff.

15:23>> Yeah, I I think Baker Mayfield just gives his receivers chances to deballers and fantasy though just because of how aggressive he is. Like you're going to

15:31miss some throws, he's going to have some interceptions. Like I don't care if I'm an Acha uh owner. So yeah, I just

15:37think that we're going to see more underneath work and he's going to be more consistent throughout the season even if the Buccaneers are just kind of

15:44throwing the ball down the field and just being all willy-nilly like they typically are. I just think that there's going to be more screens, more

15:49underneath stuff. And then uh I thought there was some other routes where it would be a Mecha and Chris Godwin running the same route that there's one

15:56play where they're both running uh dig routes and it was just pretty obvious. A Mecha's route was looking a whole lot

16:03better than Chris Godwin who's going to be 30 years old. Um so I just think there's a huge ceiling that maybe we

16:10haven't really given Amecha enough credit for. Um and the Cooper you hear Cooper Cup like I mean that was a super

16:18smash and we're talking about a fourth round pick. So he's he's my wider receiver 14. Him and Tedrono McMillan I think have very similar cases just in

16:24general. I think T-Mac's game was maybe a little bit more well-rounded than Amecha Igbuka, but I do think Amecha Ibuka is like knocking on the door for

16:31being a really great pick, especially if you start with a couple running backs early.

16:34>> The Seahawks game was awesome. I mean, head nods to create that leverage sitting in zones, confused defensive backs, eyes back to the quarterback in

16:42zone windows on top of it. And that's tough to do against the Seahawks defense. some other stats and one that caught my attention, he only caught

16:48eight of 28 contested targets this past year. Again, some of that might be the placement accuracy of it, but I also

16:54just wouldn't peg that as you game necessarily. Uh, but there's so much to really like here. Uh, and then it's other young wide receivers other than

17:04Chris Godwin, like his Jaylen McMillan, and then Ted Hurst is getting some love from Zack Robinson right now as like your downfield fast exce. Sure.

17:14>> I don't want to put like >> too many eggs in that basket because that's a stratospheric jump that Ted Hurst is having to make from, you know,

17:22Georgia State to the NFL.

17:23>> It'll be Jaylen, Chris Godwin, and then Amecha. Uh, and then the rest of the guys will mix in. I I just think that

17:28the debate right now is like, is it sneaky Chris Godwin's the slot and Chris Godwin's Cooper Cup? And I think after

17:35watching the AMCA tape, I think it's pretty obvious. Zack Robinson's like, "No, Amecha is the Cooper Cup." And then we'll figure out what the hell Chris

17:41Godwin is. And hopefully he's not Allen Robinson.

17:44>> I mean, this fourth round for wide receivers is >> so stacked.

17:47>> It's so amazing. You start with Lad, then you go to T-Mac, then Garrett Wilson, then Mechbuka. It ends with the

17:54likes of Terry McLaren and Jaylen Wadd.

17:56Uh I mean, this this round of wide receivers is is one of the favorites I've had in in recent years. And smack

18:02dab in the middle of it is our next name. Three in a row here basically for secondyear wide receivers. in Luther

18:08Burton at wide receiver 21, the sixth pick of the fourth round. Um, talk to me because you and I have been on opposite

18:16sides of the Luther Burton conversation uh for a year at this point. Uh, so what do you expect in his second year after

18:24watching his entire first year?

18:25>> I think Luther Burton's one of the best yards after the catch threats in the game. I mean, it's it's actually

18:30ridiculous what he can do. It's not just that he's bigger than your typical like yards after the catch guy. He uh plays

18:37pretty tough with the ball in his hands and he does that start stop stuff that is like what Cadarius Tony was doing but

18:43Cadarius had no uh nowhere near the same size that a Luther Burden does and Ben Johnson understood the assignment like there was a bunch of screens throw

18:52thrown to him uh 25% of his uh reception or his targets were screens and then he would also get Luther Burden in motion

19:00to get him screaming down the football field. Sometimes he would cut off of it for first down. sometimes he would just

19:04get a full head of steam and carry this thing over down the field. So Ben Johnson understood the strengths that Luther Burton has. They're very obvious.

19:13He's going to be their schemed up guy in this offense. I think in terms of the rest of the game, maybe a little bit

19:20more up and down, but better than I thought it was going to be coming out of uh Missouri where I thought he was very

19:26up and down down the football field. we at least had some moments settling into zone coverage, catching the ball, and then after he caught the ball 20 yards

19:34downfield remains a big pain in the ass to tackle. So, I think Rome and Luther Burton are almost on the exact opposite

19:41planes of receivers. And I'm guessing that Ben Johnson is just going to lean into each one of their strengths and not

19:48ask the other one to do the other. I can't wait for this second season because while it was a trio at wide

19:54receivers and really a quartet in ways because Olam Zakias actually had the most >> slot targets uh on this team last year,

20:01Luther Burton and Coulson Lovelin who we just talked about a couple days ago in this episode weren't really fully featured on this team until about week

20:09seven or week eight. And again, I understand it, but at the same time just he brings something special. And as we

20:17talked about, Coulson Loveland brings something special to this team. like there is this stardust sprinkled on Luther Burton after the catch where he's

20:24just different than almost everyone that you see with the ball in their hands. Uh how he can stop and start his

20:30acceleration and then what I love the most is that he refuses to go down on first contact. And there are multiple

20:37plays where it's further down the field, not just on screens, but like when he catches a pass seven yards or 10 yards

20:43down the field where he breaks multiple tackles and then is finally pulled out of bounds by someone and is still up on

20:49two feet somehow rather than going to the ground. He's just so dynamic to me that when you attach that dynamism with

20:58Ben Johnson, then you get someone that sure isn't a perfect or complete player right now, but is going to be set up for

21:07success on every single series and every single game to give you production because this is one of the masters at manufacturing space for his players. And

21:16Luther Burton is one of the most lethal and threatening players in space in the league. It is a perfect pairing out

21:24there. And I am so glad that now he has this runway to easily step into two wide receiver sets. There is no competition

21:31for it. And uh we're going to see some low points because that's just his game and he's not a perfect player out there.

21:36But the high points are like game-changing moments and potential like wide receiver one overall weeks because he already did that as a rookie last

21:44year, too.

21:45>> Yeah. he's gonna break so many tackles.

21:47Ben Johnson's gonna know what to do with him and then he's going to run way more routes because even like in the the

21:52playoff games and down the stretch he was not a full-time player. Uh in the playoffs 63 and 53% of snaps uh when he

21:59was out there and there was uh seven contests with Roma Dunay active and Coloulston Lovelin like actually in a full-time role he uh was only averaging

22:0932 yards per game in those like those onoffs splits that there's a million more of them. They're all just going to

22:14go up because he's just gonna be on the football field a lot more. I think the danger scheme is doing the per route

22:19stuff and just saying like this thing's just gonna carry on forever. And there's some some one a couple things on the per

22:24route stuff. It was 2.5 yards uh in the regular season, which put that next to like Odell Beckham and the best

22:30receivers uh in NFL history. Uh but then once you include the postseason, then it drops to 2.2. If you uh want to exclude

22:38the flee flicker busted coverage, that was a 65 yard play. Now we're down to two. if you want to remove the screens.

22:45Now we're done to 1.7. So like the more contes, >> right? But I'm saying that the context is he doesn't he's probably not going to

22:52be Odell Beckham just because he plays more snaps here. And then there's also uh onoff splits which all I posted onto

22:59Twitter with Colston Lovelin with Roma Dun yada yada yada. This going to be a difficult one to get right. I feel

23:05pretty good about his floor because of what he does after the catch. And then if he could round out his game out in

23:10the real routes against press man coverage, a little bit more craftiness, not leading to some interceptions in zone coverage. If he can do just be

23:17average in that, we're talking about somebody that's going to be a fantasy wide receiver, too. He's just priced like that right now, which makes me like

23:23a tad nervous. But like I have him as a wide receiver 28 and >> which is way different than ADP. So like

23:30it it if you're drafting by yourself right now, you probably won't wind up with a lot of Luther B. But I understand

23:35that you're giving the positives and the negatives of this. He is being drafted aggressively at this point because players of this type get drafted

23:43aggressively because they stand out amongst their peers.

23:46>> Yes, definitely. So yeah. So wide receiver 21, I wrote, "I'm going to bed early. I'm going to miss the party, but

23:50like I understand why there's a party brewing right now."

23:53>> Yeah. Um let me make a case of how this can get even better. Okay.

23:58>> Okay. Yeah, >> I don't think he's going to have his career at 2.55 yards per round or 2.3 or any of that stuff, right?

24:06>> Uh at the same time, yeah, he had some drops. There were also plenty of passes that kind of tipped off his totally

24:11outstretched hands. So, like if Caleb gets better in those intermediate patterns and is more accurate in that where we know you can line up his

24:18statistical just offtarget rate, it's very high across the league. Um, I thought Luther Burton answered a whole bunch of questions that were fair coming

24:27out of Missouri just in terms of his legit route running as an outside wide receiver and a lot of that came on

24:35intermediate routes and inside breakers and these dig patterns. Um, I thought he was very good at that stuff. So, if you

24:43have someone who is already good as an intermediate route runner and then is incredible after the catch, those are two buzzwords in Ben Johnson's offense.

24:53>> Oh, yeah.

24:53>> That makes like a potential special talent here. So, if he already has those two things, then that gives you almost a

24:59floor in what he can be here. And maybe that floor is Jame Williams, right?

25:03Which is a roller coaster every single week and you have some real splash weeks and then some other ones that he only

25:08has two or three catches per contest.

25:11But if he also can improve in the other areas, which he missed all of training camp last year, you know, he came from

25:20an offense at Missouri that didn't ask him to really do any of this stuff, unlike Ohio State or, you know, a bunch

25:26of these other wide receiver prospects that we talk about, and he takes this year two leap and is like really bought

25:30in, apparently Ben Johnson's almost favorite player. Then if he improves the other stuff just from like bad to average or from average to good then we

25:39are cooking with like what the potential here could be and like pairing that with Coulson Lovelin and I also don't want to

25:47give up on Rodun that is uh an incredible trio to keep moving forward with.

25:51>> Yeah, I feel very good about the Bears man. I mean just everything's coming together. They compliment each other really well. Um I will I will be ranking

25:58Coloulston Lovelin ahead of Luther Burden straight up after watching back both of them. But the fact that Luther Burden and Roma Dunay are also in the

26:06mix next to Coulson Lovelin is like a very good sign for for everything. So I always I always have this like he's a

26:12boom bust prospect and then sometimes I'm like and he's looking like a bust after year one. Like this is like he was

26:16a boom bust prospect and he's looking like a boom to me right now. So like he's every bit of an upside wide

26:22receiver three in fantasy to me. And then uh some people want to pay the the mid round or mid wide receiver 2 price

26:28tag. Like I understand it. Uh, and I I hope it works out because he's a hell of a hell of a guy to watch.

26:33>> We have a show next week where we basically say wide receivers and running backs that we kind of aren't drafting at

26:40this point.

26:42I'll just leave this little tease. I think it's an interesting conversation that Luther Burton gets picked six spots ahead of someone like Jaylen Wadd where

26:52in the offense they kind of do maybe somewhat similar things and Jaylen Wadd's >> unanimously at the top of that picking

27:00order with the Denver Broncos versus maybe where Luther Burton is and some less refined >> uh questions and parts of his game

27:08compared to Jaylen.

27:09>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm surprised that that you were saying that. I think it's very true. I I have Luther Burton is one

27:14round too expensive for me. So like I don't want to get over our skis here.

27:17And maybe when we get to reddraft get cheaper. He's he's not getting cheaper.

27:20>> No, he's not. He's not gonna get cheaper. No. And Ben Johnson's like rallying around him and just says like he's the most fun player around. So

27:27we're going to see it's just he's going to be a round three, four pick, >> right? This is like saying, "Oh, I love

27:32the Killer's first album or something."

27:34You know, like you were in very early on them and then you know now they're selling out Madison Square Garden and

27:39you're like, "Well, I can't afford it anymore."

27:41>> Yeah. you know.

27:42>> Yeah. Very true. Very true.

27:44>> All right. There is a massive and I mean massive drop off to the next second year wide receiver and on underdog that is

27:52Matthew Golden who also found himself in round one in his NFL draft. But he's wide receiver 49. So 28 spots different

28:00just at the position and then six rounds different with a third pick of the 10th round. Just caught 29 of 44 targets for

28:09361 yards. zero touchdowns in the regular season, did have one in the postseason.

28:14This is a big conversation to have because you and I relentlessly drafted Matthew Golden last offseason. Uh, was that wrong or was this just a weird

28:22season he had in year one?

28:24>> Uh, it was wrong, but I think it's a different conversation of is he for sure bad? I think the answer to that is he's

28:31definitely not bad. Like I know the the perame numbers were dreadful. Uh, he was in a rotation. He played about 50% of

28:38the snaps. Uh we hopefully won't see that snap rate continue. I actually think that he's very live to be a near

28:45full-time player just because Jaden Reed has been pretty pigeonholed into the slot.

28:50>> If it continues, we're never drafting a Packers wide receiver ever again. Like they have three guys and that's it.

28:55Those should be the three.

28:56>> So it comes down to is Matthew Golden good? Because if he's good, he's going to be in fantasy lineups. I think it's

29:05kind of uncertain, but I'm leaning more towards he's good than he's bad. He was operating as a downfield threat for the

29:11Packers. He was nearly uh on the receiving end of a couple really long touchdowns where Jordan Love either barely overthrew him, barely underthrew

29:20him. There was one where Matthew Golden caught the ball about four or five yards away from the sideline and then just

29:26like ran out of bounds. I think he still would have been running uh if he kind of knew where he was. Um, I thought that he

29:33was able to kind of stop on a dime and in cut on occasion, but for the most part was kind of like kept in this

29:39vertical uh role, which is not that fantasy friendly because we're looking for targets here. And just how balanced the offense is, you're not going to rack

29:47up a bunch of targets. I thought he was just moving with definitely a lot of pace on vertical routes. I thought he

29:52had some really quality after the catch moments. We just didn't see a whole lot of them. uh because I can see someone

29:59start and stop uh at a pretty high level. So, uh I think he has all the ingredients to be labeled as a fantasy

30:06football sleeper. Um I want to be drafting him and I think that he should be going really close to to Jaden Reed

30:11because I would guess that Matthew Golden's going to play more snaps than Jaden Reed does this year.

30:16>> Let me just say I'm drafting a lot of where Matthew Golden is being selected right now. Again, this is the front of

30:21the 10th round. The other wide receivers selected after him are Romeo Dobs, Casey Conpsion, and Juan Delale Robinson. Um, the, you know, running backs in this

30:31territory are Rashad White and Chris Rodriguez and Jonathan Brooks. So, this really isn't pricing in a second leap almost at all.

30:39>> Yeah, it is saying, "Hey, this might work and it might not." We were drafting him a lot again last year because we

30:46thought, "Hey, the Packers finally spent a first round pick on a wide receiver.

30:50that means that first round pick will break through the noise and finally play, you know, 80% of snaps. Like you said, we got a taste of that early on.

30:58Like in week three, he played 71% of snaps. In week seven, he played 73%. But then like the week nine injury like

31:07really derailed him. It was, I believe, a wrist injury and a shoulder injury.

31:12>> Yep. Yep.

31:13>> And he just wasn't the same player ever since. And that also coincided with Christian Watson returning to the team.

31:18and Christian Watson now developing into like an every blade of grass player.

31:23>> He was so good.

31:25>> Yeah.

31:25>> Now, as much as I am drafting Matthew Golden, I do think there's an outcome here where he's just a really good role player as a

31:35downfield player as a stretch field stretcher and tied to a quarterback that takes advantage of that more than others in terms of a really ambitious arm,

31:43wants to throw it 15, 20, 25 yards down the field. I really didn't like his stuff after the catch. Like there's that

31:49one catch against Cincinnati, there's that one play against the Bears. I would say the other 27 catches that he had, he

31:57almost every single time got tackled by the first man. Um, that concerns me because I also thought he was an on the

32:03ground player frequently, all the time.

32:06And they were underthrown balls, as you said, uh, and he did very little, I felt, to make his quarterback right in

32:13those situations. like he didn't stop or elevate or go up and get it and like try to turn it into a 3070 contest in those

32:20spots. So, I think that stuff is a bit concerning where I don't know now he can be the focal point of this passing game like I

32:30thought maybe a first round wide receiver could be because he's just not Christian Watson. Um, now it took Christian Watson multiple years to get

32:37there and maybe it's happens from Matthew Golden, but uh I just he gave me problems as a prospect too despite other

32:44people ranking him as like, you know, a the number one wide receiver in the class. And I think some of the same

32:48concerns I had about him then showed up during his rookie season, too. So, I'm drafting him a lot because I think it's

32:53cheap where he is, but I'm not expecting him uh to just pull away from the rest of this wide receiver, >> right? I think last year when he was

33:01getting drafted way earlier, we didn't know if Christian Watson was even going to play cuz he tore his freaking ACL in

33:05January. And then he Christian Watson not only played earlier than we thought, he was also way better than he ever was

33:11before. And now Christian Watson's healthy. So I think like the really high-end outcomes, I think we we've taken a big step back with Matthew

33:18Golden. And like you said, yeah, there was not very many yards after catch plays out there. Like there was just not

33:24how they were using him. And then I also agreed that there was some times where his lack of size did hurt him a little

33:29bit. He did say he's going to put on a little bit more weight. He thought that the wrist and shoulder injuries were

33:34partly just because of landing and not having enough uh like mass on him to to kind of protect him. So, we'll see how

33:41that goes. I I really did think that he had the athletic traits to be a player that should be utilized a little bit

33:46more in different ways than he currently was. Um I think he's going to be the Z wide receiver. I think Jaden Reed's

33:52going to be the slot wide receiver in three wide receiver sets. And like you said, Jordan Love wants to throw the

33:58ball down the football field in ways that Matthew Golden wins. So, I think he's going to be a better baseball pick.

34:03I like his price tag right now. I think the reraft stuff's always going to be frustrating, especially if they're as balanced as they typically are. Uh, I

34:10just think that this type of profile, if he had better spreadsheets in college, we're drafting him in like at 75th overall and right now he's 110th overall

34:18on >> But he didn't have better spreadsheets in college, you know? He had the college football playoff and that was like his

34:24entire college profile.

34:25>> I agree. Like there's definitely some merit to that. I just everyone on underdog thinks the same, you know, and like sometimes that that thinking leads

34:34uh leads us astray. Again, this is drafting him with, you know, leaning more towards bad outcomes. At least that's like his price right now. And

34:44>> I I am not ignorant in believing that, you know, he is going to be just a role player and that that is the only outcome

34:53that's possible here. Like there is potentially something more. Uh so yeah, I'm drafting him a lot a lot at this price.

35:00>> Sweet.

35:00>> Um anything else you want to say here? I mean, he did finish that playoff game with, you know, four catches for 84

35:06yards and a touchdown. So, you did have like that nice feather in the cap of the ending of the season.

35:10>> Yeah. Yeah, it was awesome touchdown screen. Kind of ran around a couple guys, leaped over some, shed a tackle, too. So, that was a good play. Um, still

35:18wasn't like playing like a ton of snaps out there. Um, I I will mention in OTAAS, Laflur has talked him up. We've

35:25had beat reporters talk him up. Uh, and then also, um, he's apparently been like the favorite target for Jordan Love.

35:32Like, this is really early in camp, but like >> you at least needed some signs of life and them choosing to not uh resign uh

35:41Romeo Dobs, them trading away Dantavian Wixs, LaFlor's comment saying like, hey, maybe having six wide receivers rotate not helping us out. like those type of

35:50context clues. Maybe they're saying, "Hey, Matthew Golden is probably a little bit better internally than how the external world views them." And then

35:58also mentioned like like you said, those injuries like happened in the middle of the season and he wasn't practicing and like that really hurts as well. So

36:05hopefully all these little context clues help us point into the direction that hey, they actually think that Matthew Golden has a chance here even if most

36:11people don't.

36:12>> It kind of sounds like we disagree about him, but I think we're coming to the same conclusion.

36:16>> Yeah, we're probably going to rank him to the exact same spot.

36:17>> Yeah.

36:19And look, the Packers have other yards after catch threats on the team. Like it they have Jaden Reed. They definitely have Tucker Craft when he comes back.

36:26So, it's not necessary for him to be be in in that area. Okay, let's keep it moving. Next round, we have Jaden

36:33Higgins of the Houston Texans, wide receiver, 53, the fourth pick of the 11th round. Uh dare I say, some of the

36:40quietest 68 targets for 525 yards and six touchdowns among this entire rookie class. Typically, you know, when these big, tall wide receivers claim a

36:52starting outside job attached to someone like CJ Strad, there's way more buzz heading into their second year than what Jaden Higgins is getting at this moment.

37:00But for some reason, we can still draft him in the 11th round. He's a sleeper. I agree on the quiet part. I thought his

37:06tape was pretty good. Now, he's not going to be super flashy. He's not going to win any track meets, but I thought he

37:12did like more like real wide receiver stuff than almost anybody in the class.

37:16Obviously like Teteroa and Amecha were awesome, but like just in terms of pacing, settling down, toe drags near the sideline, toughness on zone catches

37:25over the middle, and just getting absolutely annihilated, having a nice frame to work through as well. I thought all that stuff was pretty clean. I would

37:32be very surprised if there was like a real breakout here. But is there ways that he can be like a budget version of

37:40Michael Pitman, Michael Wilson, Romeo Dobs, Courtland Sutton? Like those are some names that I that I'm seeing with Jaden Higgins tape out there. Obviously,

37:49the Texans offense has been brutal to watch and just super slow paced and everything we just don't love about it.

37:55But I would be really surprised if Tankdale given his injury or Jaylen Null are real threats to his playing time.

38:02Like he's just going to be a the Texans long-term wide receiver, too. He's not Nico Collins. He doesn't need to be. Uh

38:09he looks like the 34th overall pick in the draft. And I think that if we were reddrafting today and a team drafted him

38:14late round one, that wouldn't be that surprising to me. His floor seems like really locked in.

38:19>> Yeah. I mean last year in the what opening seven weeks of the season he played behind Xavier Hutchinson just from a snap count standpoint but then we

38:28talk about it you know post by rookie bumps and as the season goes along you get more and more opportunities you earn

38:34more and more of it and that's exactly what happened I felt with him um for his size I think he does have you know

38:42methodical movements like there's not much fat to his game and I felt the intermediate and downfield portions were even better than the quick hitting short

38:51slants and all that type of stuff. Even if those improved a little bit as the season went along, like against San

38:57Francisco, you saw that improved. There was a plan off the line, no wasted movement de and has already developed, I think, into a, you know, solid wide

39:04receiver, too. And maybe even some quarterback inaccuracy from both quarterbacks, uh, led to a lack of production in some of these spots, too.

39:14Y >> but man I I love the press that he has to outside step uh on this defensive back and then cuts inside and elevates.

39:22Like there are plays where if the timing from CJ Strad and the route gets into a position in front of a defensive back

39:30and you throw it just kind of up and away, those plays are uncoverable. They are indefensible just because of his size and his trusted hands off of his

39:39frame and how he positions himself in front of defensive backs. And that is kind of tough to find across the league.

39:45And you know, it's not like CJ's throwing to two different body types.

39:48Like he and Nico Collins are very similar. So you can put them in the exact same pinpoint and similar placement. So, uh,

39:55>> while Jaden Higgins, you know, might never, you know, graduate into a true wide receiver one, he can definitely be a sturdy, dependable player here. And I

40:05just hope we get a Houston Texans passing offense that is like top half of the league in terms of scoring because

40:11then that goes, you know, the difference between him being the wide receiver 53 and like the wide receiver 39.

40:17>> Yeah. I think if Shroud goes back to the rookie season, I think that Jaden Higgins would be like a a flex starter

40:22in PPR leagues. Like I think we've already seen proof of concept from week eight on which when is when he's got on

40:27the field, he was the wide receiver 42 on wide receiver 36 usage. Nico Collins was in and out of the lineup a little

40:32bit there. Um, so like there's like a chance and like with at least some proof of concept here. We see the same exact

40:38film. Uh, his short area burst is lackluster. I think the long speed there's a couple plays like down the football field was where like he's

40:47faster than I remember him at Iowa State and then I think that he can contort his body so it's not like a super stiff

40:53player as well. It's just like not going to be slant and then absolutely burst immediately after the catch. That's why you have Nico Collins out there. And it

41:00was kind of fun to play pre- snap when you go to the next play. Where's Nico?

41:04Where's Jaden Higgins? You kind of get confused and then then you realize, oh, there goes Nico Collins. Uh, that's what a wide receiver one looks like. But I

41:12like Haken State. Like, >> yeah, >> I'm surprised more people aren't being like, hey, well done.

41:16>> I I agree. And look, maybe some of his lack of explosiveness off the line will allow some of the best corners in the

41:23league just to stick in his hip pocket throughout the entire route. But if he faces off coverage, I think he chews

41:28that up. You know, average corners, he will create separation down the field.

41:32And again, I I just want to go to when he has positioning and the ball is off his frame, he has the size to make

41:37>> catches that, you know, defensive backs just have no chance of doing. And so, we just need CJ to be up there. We need

41:43Nick Kay to be up there. And, you know, just score more touchdowns. Don't be one of the worst teams in terms of red zone

41:49touchdown success rate. And uh you know there's a massive difference even if his game is exactly the same of Jane Higgins

41:57catching you know six touchdowns in a season versus 10 touchdowns in a season or three touchdowns in a season versus nine touchdowns in a season. And that

42:04kind of isn't just dependent on him if that makes sense.

42:07>> Yeah, completely agree. Uh last note, Dimika Ryan's uh was giving him a lot of credit in the offseason podium sessions

42:14saying that he's uh more chiseled just looks like he's in better shape. Uh we love to we love to see it. I mean I

42:21can't say the same. Uh >> uh I wish >> no us with little ones that is impossible for us to do right now. So

42:28>> right and his starting point may be a little bit different than what you and I are working with too.

42:33>> Another big conversation. Let's talk about Travis Hunter who is still being drafted as a wide receiver. In fact, wide receiver 57 the middle of the 12th

42:44round right now. I don't even know where to start on this one. Uh, I could go short or I could go long- winded, but

42:52I'll keep it short and brief.

42:53>> Go short.

42:54>> And just say, uh, what did Travis Hunter flash in his short time out there on the field as a >> His best moments were down the football

43:04field. He got about five of them throughout the season, but he made two of the most ridiculous high-point catches out there, which is exactly what

43:12he was doing at the University of Colorado. I wanted to first point out that if he did turn into a full-time

43:18wide receiver, he is not a choice route slot guy. He should be more than that.

43:24At the same time, there were so many frustrations on the Travis Hunter tape just pre- snap, just like getting onto the field. They were calling timeouts.

43:33Brian Thomas had a huge long touchdown where he was lined up uh in the uh off sides. Uh there was just a bunch of

43:40stuff uh coming out of breaks. He didn't know the ball was coming to him. So, there was a lot of things like I think

43:44mentally going on with Travis Hunter.

43:47Uh, also he was too small at times. Fred Warner had to punch out. That said, he's put on a lot of weight. Unfortunately,

43:54he's still not a full-time participant because of that uh knee injury, but he looks more uh filled out. I think that's

44:01going to help him out on both sides of the ball. Uh, unfortunately, just looking at the depth chart, that matters more than anything. They want him at

44:08wide receiver. They need him at corner.

44:11And there was a a moment where Liam Con was talking and talking about all the mental reps because they have this brand

44:16new facility where he can reenact a game. And in that he said whether it's man coverage, zone coverage, cloud, all all defensive terms, not very many

44:27offensive terms. Uh so I ultimately think he's a better receiver than getting credit for. And I think he's going to at best play 50% of the snaps

44:37unless there's a big injury. I think it's easy to forget the positive trajectory he was on at the start of last year as a receiver. Like early in

44:45the season, as you said, basically only a manufactured touch guy. It was a lot of slot and screen stuff. He was very

44:53confused on where to line up. Uh, but you know, when you look at the early season wins that then propelled the

44:59Jaguars to the playoffs, like the Jaguars don't beat the San Francisco 49ers without his huge contested catch on a throw over the middle of the field

45:07from their own end zone that he elevates over to 49ers to go up and get. the same with the Kansas City Chiefs with another

45:13big-time downfield catch and then obviously he had crazy production in a garbage time loss uh against the LA Rams and then they hit their by-week and

45:24during that bye-week you know we read Draco we read John Shipley every single beat writer said something to the effect of quote don't be surprised if he gets

45:33wide receiver one treatment the rest of the way and then that crossroads moment happened where he in in the second week

45:41of their buy to his LCL in practice and then the Jaguars traded for Jacobe Meyers and then Parker Washington also broke out after that by week and then

45:51now based on their offseason moves the Jaguars have a bigger need at cornerback than they do at wide receiver and you

45:59know a lot of media reports from Ian Raport and Cameron Wolf and these guys back in May staying saying saying that

46:05the focus of Travis Hunter is going to be at quarterback and I actually agree with that. I won't say it too loudly

46:10because he and you know other Jaguars fans are going to take offense of that.

46:14But overall, how I view it, at least for this season, is what you just said.

46:20Travis Hunter is likely to be a part-time player on offense versus if he stayed healthy last year, he might now be a full-time player on offense and

46:30like have the passing game built around him. But that's not what happened. We are not playing in whatifs. And at this

46:36point, you think at best, if everyone stays healthy, he is fourth in wide receiver snaps. And yeah, >> that is tough to draft.

46:45>> Yes. I will say this though, his upside is still so clear to me. If something happens, if the Brian Thomas goes down

46:50and then all of a sudden it's like, okay, we also need you at wide receiver.

46:54I think that he can be a total baller.

46:56So, I think >> if you're in a deeper league, he's going to be one of your last picks. I would hold on to him. Like, you just never

47:01know how quick this thing could turn around. Uh, and I would like to see him because he's put on more weight, not be

47:08pigeonhold into the role that he had on offense where 65% of his snaps on offense were in the slot and he only

47:14played in three or four wide receivers.

47:17>> I think we were getting there during the by-week and it just wasn't going to happen. Like you can almost take

47:23>> Jacobe Meyer's production and some of Parker Washington's and give it over to Travis Hunter, I felt. So, >> look, we told you all, at least I did,

47:30to draft Travis Hunter last year. And was it a bit of a slow start? It was.

47:34Guess what? That happens all the time with these rookies. And do we always talk about post by rookie bumps? We do.

47:40And what were we getting during the by-week was everything geared towards him being a focal point or the focal point of this passing game. And then the

47:50floor fell out from underneath us. And then now the offseason is kind of doing that exact same thing because they have

47:55guys that stepped up in his absence.

47:57>> Yeah. And I think the the knee injury is a serious one. It's like one of the more rare knee injuries to have. Some players

48:02have really struggled coming off of it.

48:04Um he's not at full-time practice yet, so hopefully we get some positive training camp buzz there. I think he's going to be a near full-time corner and

48:12then he's going to be a part-time receiver until the depth chart changes and then the second he's playing more snaps at wide receiver, I want to like

48:20go all in because I do think the ceiling is just like really spectacular. And hopefully going into year two, they've kind of, you know, streamlined how much

48:27of the playbook he needs to know and those type of things. And I do think some of his like blocking reps on

48:32offense stuff, he would get thrown around. I didn't see it nearly as much at corner. I thought his corner stuff was really damn good. Uh, but there was

48:38some times on offense where he was a little bit too small out there. So, I think him being really like he's like

48:43legit jacked now all of a sudden. Um, hopefully that that helps kind of on on the fringes and maybe that encourages

48:48the coaching staff to say, you know what, let's get this like 90% snaps on defense and 60% snaps on offense and

48:54maybe if he was at an old weight, we wouldn't even get that. Look, last year Travis Hunter said that he can play both

49:01ways and James Gladstone and all those guys said it. Hopefully that's the case and hopefully he does in the future. I

49:06just wonder if that's maybe a 2027 thing versus a 2026 thing >> on on top of it. So let me ask you this.

49:13Right now he's going in the middle of the 12th round. Other wide receivers in this round it's Stefon Diggs who's not

49:18in the team right now. Jaylen Coker, Rasheed Shahed, Omar Cooper. Uh, you know, their next round is like Jawan Jennings and Jaylen McMillan and yeah,

49:27>> Jaylen Naylor and Trey Tucker. Uh, lots of quarterbacks. The running backs are pretty gross unless you like Katon Mitchell here.

49:34>> Is this a fair price? Are you drafting Travis Hunter in this spot or is it like, hey, I really want him to not play

49:40in the preseason on offense basically and we maybe get even more of a discount.

49:43>> I will draft him at this price and if he drops even further, then I would keep drafting. I mean, he's getting priced

49:47next to Rasheed Jahed and Omar Cooper, uh, Jawan Jennings, Jaylen McMillan. All these guys are going to be in three wide

49:53receiver sets only. Khalil Shakir goes ahead of them. I just watched Khalil Shakir is the number one and like I'm not scared of that. Now they have DJ

50:00Moore. Like his upside like I mean in the top 20 percentile outcomes for all these wide receivers, his is like by far

50:06the only one that really matters. Like all these guys right next to him like they beat him on medium projections. Uh

50:12but I do think even in as a part-time player there will be some like garbage time receptions and he will have a

50:18couple big plays uh as they kind of mix him in there. So, I'm totally fine with this price tag. Um, it's sad that he

50:24goes in the 12th round. I think that's somewhat realistic. Um, but I want to be buying. I'm certainly I he's he's a

50:31fantasy football sleeper to me. He's got tons of risk, but I mean, he absolutely has a pathway to being a top 25 guy at

50:37some points.

50:38>> But, I mean, I'll throw out that should the risk word even be used for a player that's drafted in the 12th round.

50:43>> Yeah. They all have they all suck, >> right? I mean, Aronda Gatson goes in the 12th round and he's the titan three on

50:49his team.

50:50>> Exactly. Yeah, literally like we can play this game all the way down like Yeah, it's crazy.

50:56>> So, I every word that you just said I I I agree with. Um I just really hate we didn't get that moment of one game after

51:03the by-week just to see of what like the proof of outcome could be because it happened at the point when he was going

51:13to get more and more and more work. And to me, it's not surprising that he was also brought along slowly. If you go

51:19back and listen to everything out of that Colorado program where he wasn't in offensive meetings because he, you know, didn't have the time to basically from

51:26at the college level and they would tell him what routes to run from the sideline and then he would just go and run them

51:30and he was still freaking good. And so >> good, >> you know, now with a year under his belt and a lot of time in the books, then he

51:39probably does have a much better understanding of each of the three alignments on offense, too. So, I really want it to happen. I think it might be

51:472026, but I'm a little bit nervous that like if this is the season that we have the lowest percentage of his snaps in

51:53his career at wide receiver.

51:55>> Yeah, I can see it. I wish we can trade Jacobe Myers back to the Raiders. Um, that'd be a lot easier.

52:01>> But then who's going over the middle or than Parker Washington?

52:04>> Hey, Brian. Brian Thomas in camp.

52:07>> Not from last year. He didn't go over the middle >> in camp. He's the MVP. I I've seen more Brian Thomas tweets this week than I did

52:14all last year.

52:15>> No, but they're talking about clear outs. They're not talking about inbreakers.

52:18>> I'm watching Touchdown, man. I'm getting excited again.

52:21>> Yeah, there's no hitting, so there's no alligator arms there from from Brian Thompson.

52:25>> All right, many more to talk about here.

52:28Isaac Tesla is next. Early 15th round, wide receiver 69. I'll say it, Hayden.

52:36On just 16 catches uh during his rookie season, he's already laid the foundation for one hell of a career highlight reel.

52:44>> I mean, like three of the silliest catches by any player last year. Um yeah, he's a freak athlete uh playing in

52:52a position that he did not play in college, so you have to give him some credit. And at the same time, he's going

52:57to have like a 5% target share. So there's only so much we can even talk about here. Like there this offense is

53:02stacked. You don't have to you don't have to throw it to him. It's cool that like on those two targets per game, he's

53:07going to come out with an explosive, but um yeah, he's he's in development. Uh I think they traded up a lot for him for

53:16how many times he's going to get the ball, but he's not going to get the ball enough to matter. Uh if Jameson Williams

53:20goes down, then Sam Laorty goes to the mood and vice versa. So, I think we're a ways away from him mattering. Um, man,

53:28he against an unathletic corner in the red zone, like if they want to throw the first pass up to him and see what see

53:33what they got cooking, like by all means, I'm here for it.

53:37>> It was a very good comment that you made that he's playing a different receiver spot than he did in college. At

53:42Arkansas, he was basically a big slot, like kind of a finesse player, and he would still go up and make these

53:48spiraling catches, but you know, it was from a different alignment. And then you go and his first catch what against the

53:56Packers or someone is lined up out wide and just climbing the ladder and toetapping the sideline. Like there were so many vertical climb the ladder

54:03offrame catches or working through contact and then very few crossers over the middle of the field and then practically no short catches. So I do

54:11wonder kind of what we talked about with Jaden Higgins like against good corners can he separate one-on-one on his breaks? I even more have more questions

54:18with Isaac Tes Tesla about that for sure. But man, the big catches are pretty freaking sweet. But then you look at it and like the wide receiver room

54:26for this team is even worse than it was last year. Like Khalif Raymond is gone.

54:30But you know, the most snaps that he played last year when everyone was basically healthy. Uh didn't happen until week 14, but that was up to you

54:38know 77% and 63% and stuff.

54:41>> But that's also when you know Sam Leaporta missed every game from week 11 and on. So >> uh >> you know it's not just Jameson Williams

54:49he's competing with. It's also Sam Laora and they might run 11 personnel 60% of the time, 55% of the time, that type of

54:58stuff. So, I like Tesla. He has obvious areas where he wins. It wouldn't surprise me if he does, you know, make a

55:04leap or if Jameson Williams gets hurt or whoever else, then he makes good on it, but this is just not someone with how

55:10the depth chart is stacking right now that uh you can project a major leap for.

55:14>> Yeah, I was looking at it. He had six touchdowns last year. In his last two seasons at Arkansas, he had five. It's

55:20crazy. Yeah, it's a wild season.

55:22>> Let's talk Trey Harris, LA Chargers. Few picks later, seventh pick of the 15th round, and one wide receiver spot later

55:29at wide receiver 70. First catch of the season was a little inbreaker versus the Chiefs for a first down as like an ISO X

55:37player. Um, that's important because during his time at Miss, everything was along the sideline, very few inbreakers.

55:44But when he did, you and I got really excited. So, I know you went back and watched every single target of Trey

55:48Harris. What did you see?

55:49>> I think more toughness than like downfield speed. Uh that's how the Chargers utilized him. Um from week six on, which is when he kind of started

55:57getting out there. Uh he led the target, the Chargers and targets with zero to two wide receivers on the field. He had

56:03a 24% target share in that personnel grouping, but he was fifth in targets in three or four wide receiver sets. Uh

56:10he's a tough player. I didn't see like a lot of sizzle to his game. Um he had more like kind of inbreaking like break

56:17a tackle or like fight for that first down uh on the Chargers tape and then the old miss tape was like totally

56:24different like you said. So he's got a pathway to be the the third wide receiver on the team because Keenan Allen's not there. And then at the same

56:32time here comes more tight ends, more running backs. Uh, and then they drafted Brendan Tom Thompson, who's the exact opposite of Trey Harris as a clear out

56:41guy. So, I don't see a pathway to him really mattering in fantasy unless Johnson or Lad McConi get injured. And then at that point, um, was there enough

56:50on tape to get really excited about other than that he's attached to uh, the Chargers offense and he's like a serviceable player, but maybe you have a

56:59stronger tape.

56:59>> Yeah, I think I saw it slightly different than you, just more optimistic. like he was almost a sampler platter this year where there was a

57:06little bit of everything. Um which again was nice to see after his time at Miss which was the same thing every single

57:10game. Yep.

57:11>> Uh there was I thought tight third down wins like third and three slant passes he'd be a primary >> or hey catch get down those types of

57:22things like he would win in those tight situations. I thought some zone feel.

57:26You saw some routes like curls over the middle of the field, short movements to still maintain space from zone, but you

57:32know, on these elongated plays where Justin Herbert was running for his life, he'd still, you know, stay open in those spots. And then I saw some yak flashes

57:40as the season went along. Nothing like that's incredible, but just a broken tackle here and then yeah, you know, some long strides for some gains after

57:48that. Um, like you're saying though, I think there's only gonna be one and a half wide receivers that really matter with the Chargers right now. And I'm

57:59putting my eggs in the ladi basket. Um, QJ's gotten some love for Mike McDaniel and obviously outproduced lad.

58:06>> QJ's going to go off this year. I'm saving it for a different show. This is a teaser. Quinton Johnson's going to go

58:10crazy this year in fantas.

58:11>> Okay. Then we also have, you know, all the personnel groupings everywhere else on top of this, too. So Trey Harris was

58:18interesting last year with Greg Roman where as you just talked about single wide receiver sets he was the guy out there. I don't think that's going to

58:26continue. Is there going to be a downgrade to then like two wide receiver sets? He probably is not going to be out

58:31there either. So it's tough because I want to see even more development. I just don't know if he's going to have a

58:38whole lot of reps to get this development.

58:40>> Yeah, I think his floor is like intact.

58:42like he's going to be in the Chargers rotation like he's, you know, is he that dissimilar to like Josh Palmer who had

58:48some moments when like the other guys went down kind of could play different spots. I think that's the the style player that we're getting with with Trey

58:56Harris. Yeah, the like you said like there's some yards after catch moments like via toughness and like settling into zone coverage rather than like

59:03there goes Jamar Chase after the catch which we were expecting obviously but um but he's a fine player.

59:09>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, zone fuel versus the Titans, another versus the Cowboys on the extended play.

59:16Nice adlib touchdown I felt versus the Minnesota Vikings to work back to the opposite direction in the red zone to find space. So, if his name's called

59:22upon, I think he does enough good things that like it's not just going to be a drop off to the wide receiver two spot

59:28on the team. Okay, that's basically it for everyone that's being drafted right now, but there are still, I think, four or five names that we do want to quickly

59:35touch on. Um, Pat Bryant's next. Pat Bryant was a channel favorite coming out of Illinois just because no one was talking about him. I actually thought

59:44Pat Bryant did a serviceable job filling in for his role on the Broncos last year. But, you know, when the team goes

59:50out and trades a first round pick for Jaylen Wadd, then you kind of drop down here in the pecking order. And probably

59:56what Roelly fills in this offense now is the tight window contested catch because he ranked the highest of all these rookies in terms of uh converted

60:05contested catch opportunities this past season.

60:06>> We see it the same way. He's more of a glue guy to me. I think that his upside case is like he's Courtland Sutton's

60:12long-term replacement because I don't think Troy Franklin, obviously Marvin Mims, like those types aren't going to do anything. They still don't have tight

60:19end sorted out yet. So, I do think there's a chance that Pat Bryant will have some moments. His playing time is

60:25going to be pretty capped, though, because Corland Sutton and Jaylen Waddler are going to handle everything.

60:30So, I did think that he was good enough on tape where if one of those guys goes down that in a deeper league, he's

60:37immediately worth a waiverwire ad. And I do think I like him more than Troy Franklin. Uh, well-roundedness is like for sure if I was a GM, he's just not

60:46going to get the manufactured touches that those other guys are going to get.

60:49So big body, work over the middle, glue guy. Everyone seems to love him. Uh he's going to be a part of this Shawn Peyton

60:55offense for a very long time. How many fantasy points that means? Probably not too many.

61:01>> Yep. Same thing basically happened with Tory Horton who flashed in his moments in his role, then got injured. The team

61:08trades for Rashid Shahed and then gives Rashi Shahed another contract. So Tory Horton again flashed in the red zone some like downfield difficult catches.

61:17Uh and if you're talking about downfield now, he probably isn't going to have that opportunity with Rasheed Shahed uh just growing in his opportunity for the

61:24team.

61:25>> Yeah, he's Rasheed's backup. And then if JSN goes down, that would be like where it actually get more interesting because

61:31I do think that Tory Horton and Shahed, that would be interesting just to see who would come up with more targets. Uh

61:36Tory Horton was a more utilized underneath at Colorado State and I always thought he was a downfield threat and I think the Seahawks with Sam

61:43Darnold viewed it the same way. So uh better in baseball. I don't think you have to draft him, though.

61:47>> Jack Bes, do you need to draft Jack Bash? Should the Raiders have drafted Jack Bes?

61:52>> I actually like Jack Bes in baseball more than some of the other names we just talked about. Um, >> okay.

61:58>> Makes me nervous because he's going to probably play out of position like he did this last year. Uh, he only played

62:04in the slot, it was 28% of his snaps. I think both of us liked Jack Besh as a, you know, big slot type and the problem

62:12is that's what Brock Bowers is. Trey Tucker goes in the slot some. Jaylen Naylor's a slot guy, so it's like, okay,

62:17we can't have 14 slots on the football field. Um, Jack Best does not have the vertical speed to matter. I did think

62:25that he was tough. I did think he actually settled into zone coverage pretty well. And I do think that he can

62:30catch the ball and then, you know, rumble forward for for a first down. And I think that in those terms, he's

62:36actually trustworthy. Is there a big ceiling here? Not really, unless Fernando Mendoza breaks out. But I mean, Trey Tucker, Jaylen Naylor, like are

62:44those guys for sure better than Jack Bash? Like, I'm not sold. And I know that Bes is better than Thornton.

62:50>> Is Jack B one of your favorite 18th round picks right now?

62:52>> Uh, I got him ranked in the 180s, so he goes undrafted. Yeah, I think he I think he's somebody that you can mix in on

62:59occasion. Um, >> I just don't understand it from >> a spy techch, correct? GM, uh, perspective of drafting Jack Bash when

63:10you have Brock Bowers on your team.

63:11>> Like Jack Bash started his career at LSU as basically a move tight end, a receiving tight end and then goes to TCU

63:17and kind of fulfills the same role while playing a bit more outside as as his career >> went along. But I mean, in a perfect world, he would be

63:27a power slot, and that's exactly how what Brock Bowers is going to like be featured and heavily featured on this team. So,

63:34>> yeah, >> the overlap to me, the vin diagram is uh almost an eclipse here.

63:38>> Yeah, I wish he was on a different team because I think that he has enough skills to like be catch a couple passes

63:43per game and like keep the chains moving. Um, and I I just wouldn't rule that out even though his season was so

63:49bad. I mean, he had negative.1.7 EPA per target. Per target. That is like that's like a bad running back. And then

63:57his average depth of target was at 7.7, which is amongst the lowest wide receivers. And he was doing that not as

64:03a slot screen guy, as an outside wide receiver. So like everything that he was doing was like, and I'm cutting inside

64:11real quick and then I'm sitting hitch.

64:13So I think he was pretty good at that.

64:15Um, but I mean we have to you obviously our expectations are pretty low here.

64:21>> Let's talk Jaylen Null who also has like a defined role for his game. He was the other Iowa State wide receiver that the

64:27Texans took after Jaden Higgins. Uh, let's remember that, you know, they had Christian Kirk in this role for the first part of the season and then Jaylen

64:36Null kind of took over afterwards. Uh, he is also not being drafted in every single league right now on Underdog. Uh

64:43what did you see when you went back and watched him?

64:45>> I haven't watched him in like full detail. Uh but he was going to be a vertical slot wide receiver and that's

64:51what Christian Kirk was. So like his pathway to playing time is obviously way up right now. Um uh so aside from like

64:57your um from your like film analysis, I'd be curious if Tank Dell does come back and matters at some point during

65:05the season, like where is Tank Dell going to play? Is that slot stuff? Like how does how do we sort out that part of

65:11it once we get there? I'll even add that I think Jaylen Null should have been in the NFL 10 years ago and we would have

65:17been a lot more excited about that, you know, when when he had this profile of a slot wide receiver and they were, you

65:24know, heavy 11 personnel getting a lot more opportunities because the Texans also just spent a second round pick on Marlon Klene, a bigger tight end, and

65:34then also brought in Fossome Maro. So, I think they're going to try to be more multiple of these heavier personnel and

65:39bigger bodies, too. And that's just immediately going to take Jaylen Nol out of it. Like at Iowa State, he was fun.

65:44He was running in two wide receiver sets a lot. I just think his size catches up to him way more often in the NFL and he

65:50doesn't separate as well as he did before. But, you know, he's at his best getting vertical, these deep corners, these deep crossers. It kind of brings

65:57me back to that rookie season CJ Strad stuff, but he also got tackled extremely easily after the catch. So, he is almost

66:06like the one outlier profile that you look like in this whole wide receiver room where we talk about Nico Collins and Jane Higgins, Xavier Hudson, even uh

66:15you have Justin Watson who has some size to him as well. So, >> and then Tank Devil's rookie season, he played more on the outside as well as

66:21like these awesome outside breakers over and over. So, I think Jaylen Null is like the replaceable talent here when they want to change things from a

66:28personal group and see.

66:29>> Yeah, I I see it the same way. He's pigeonholding to slot work and they're just not going to have enough of it. And

66:34then even when he's out there, you have to go earn a target over Nico Collins.

66:38And then we both like Jaden Higgins. So it's just it's just hard to squeeze this out short term and long term.

66:44>> It it's odd. Like I think you and I both compared him to Christian Kirk coming into the league and >> I think that actually has a lot of

66:52correctness to it. It's just that mold and that model in a in the best offense is is kind of getting phased out

66:59>> in a way.

67:00>> It's the defensive structures. like it's hard to throw the ball deep and over the middle when there's two safeties back

67:05there or previously a lot easier.

67:07>> I quickly want to mention Jaylen Royals uh now not for his tape because he had three targets all season long but it's

67:14because he's drawing a lot of praise and otaas a lot of draft Twitter loved him.

67:18Not this channel, just a lot of other people. And because he's Rashi Rice's probably direct backup. Uh we know Rashi Rice is in jail and also dealing with,

67:27you know, knee surgery while in jail.

67:29Um, the thing with Jaylen Royals coming out of school, it was screens and crossers and then go balls and that's about it. Uh, I need to see more to

67:38really buy into this. I think Rashi Rice is just so good in those skills that the major weaknesses that he has in the

67:47other areas of of his game like don't matter because he's so good at those specific routes. Whereas I don't think Jayen Rose is nearly as good on those

67:55routes. So, uh, I think it's going to get hype as the offseason goes along.

68:00Um, I'll just be a bit more tentative probably than other people.

68:02>> Yeah, we saw the tape this same exact way and at a certain extent it's like, okay, you're on the football field with

68:06Patrick Mahomes, like you're immediately at least interesting. So, I think it just comes down to, you know, how how good was the rehab in jail for for

68:15Rasheed Rice? Um, but apparently he's almost out of jail, which is promising.

68:20His Rasheed Rice's ADP is gonna go up because of the reports that he's out of jail, which is just gonna be funny to

68:26see. But >> yeah, Rice right now has barely dropped.

68:29I mean, he's in the middle of the third round right now as wide receiver 13 >> overall.

68:33>> Yeah, I mean those fourth round wide receivers are so good at football that the risk of these third round wide

68:39receivers is like >> difficult uh to kind of >> the rice neighbors combo mainly you're talking about >> for sure. But I mean Crystal Lav is not

68:46playing because of blood blood clots as well. So Z Flowers is just like in that different offense. So there's a couple

68:53guys where like to me it's like I'm getting a ton of fantasy points out of Travis Achain and Kairen Williams and

68:59then Javante Williams. Like I'm kind of like all right, give me another one of these running backs in that round or

69:04Josh Allen and then I'll have my my wide receiver fun in the fourth round.

69:09>> Yeah. some combo of two running backs and then two wide receivers, but namely that being like round one or two wide

69:16receiver and then round four wide receiver uh is kind of where I'm going.

69:20But you can mix in, you know, Coulson Lovelin there in round four. You can mix in Brock Bowers in round two.

69:25>> Bowers, Josh Allen, >> some Josh Allen at that three, four turn.

69:29>> Yeah. And if you you can go three three running backs early if you want. It works sometimes.

69:33>> It works.

69:34>> I have been doing it quite a bit and then just not touching it until I get down to I'm super late.

69:41>> Okay.

69:41>> Beyond Blake Cororm even like super late. All right.

69:44>> I've been doing some three running backs, throw in Kyle Manungai, four running backs, I'm done.

69:48>> I love those.

69:50>> All right, that's it for us. Uh, this was breakouts week. Hopefully, and I mean hopefully, if you made it this far,

69:56you already subscribe to the channel.

69:58Hopefully, you're also drafting over an underdog. Again, click the link in the description down below. Play five bucks, you get 50 bucks on top of it. Uh, if

70:05you're in the app, it's under the games section as well. Uh, Hope and Numei are posting new contests all the freaking

70:12time, including on Fridays as well. So, be on the lookout for that. It's like this little window of time that's unique

70:17games every single Friday, it feels like. So, uh, yeah, spend your summer, grill out, draft an underdog. It's that simple. All right, everyone. Shout out

70:27to Weaves and Moshow. We'll be back next week with three more episodes at least.

70:32Talk to you'all then. See

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