0:00Welcome to the NFL Pro Week 5 Reaction Podcast.
0:03Thank you for listening on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0:08Be sure to follow and subscribe to the show.
0:11Cobb breaks a tackle! Close! Diving! Where do they mark it?
0:14Where do they put it? Football is a Game of Inches, and also a Game of Seconds.
0:19Oh my goodness! They gotta get up and spike it!
0:22They're not gonna be able to get this out of time!
0:26And also, somehow now, a Game of Frames. Boy, that is...
0:29I just don't know. How do you mark that, Dean?
0:32Oh! And the kick is gone! And the Jaguars win it!
0:36Is this the greatest reality show in the world?
0:39It really is. NFL, unbelievable. What a week for football.
0:42Trevor, we're gonna begin, obviously, with Niners, Seahawks, up in Seattle.
0:45The play that everybody's talking about, one of the last plays of the game, effectively the last play of the game.
0:52Was Cooper Cup far enough in bounds for that to be considered a first down?
0:56Or rather, was the ball still in bounds as he crossed the marker?
1:00That is the question that everybody's been trying to figure out.
1:04Because if you're just watching it on the broadcast, it is almost impossible to tell.
1:08Being the sicko that I am, and being that the NFL gave us access to literally 14 angles from within the stadium,
1:15all of the cameras, whether they were shown in the broadcast or not, I went on a little bit of a quest after that game was over.
1:24I found the exact frame, laterally, where the ball hit the first down marker.
1:28And then I looked at every angle on that frame to determine, was the ball still in bounds or not?
1:34We are talking, literally, the difference of a frame deciding if this game was over or not.
1:39And after looking at every single angle that I had available to me, again, 14 angles from within the stadium, I still can't tell.
1:47And ultimately, that means that the call had to stand.
1:50If you can't definitively tell that he got the first down, and I can't, if you can't definitively tell, that call has to stand.
1:57I'm with you. I think when I saw all those angles myself, I did not think that there was enough definitive evidence to overturn it.
2:05And I think they got it right. I think they got this call right.
2:10And full transparency, if we found evidence they were wrong, we would have shown that to you.
2:15Like, we have no loyalties, no allegiance here. Like, yes, this is a show produced by the league.
2:20We are not afraid of saying when things were wrong.
2:24We just don't know that they were. But ultimately, this game was not determined by just that one play.
2:30There was a lot that led up to that moment that gave it the weight that it had behind it.
2:36So let's talk about everything that kind of led to that, and truly how great of a football game this really was.
2:43Where do they put it? They say he's short!
2:4549ers take over! Oh! So close! Yeah, Henry, when you look at Brock Purdy in this game, he was 19 for 29, 189 passing yards.
2:53Had a quarterback rating of 92.5 thanks to two touchdowns and one interception.
2:57It wasn't catastrophic from him like we've seen with him against Mike McDonald in the past.
3:02But he was still stressed. Like, he was still stressed the entire game.
3:06This was absolutely two heavyweights going at it. But I want to start out shouting out my boy Mike Evans because they said he was over the hill.
3:15They said, oh, he's moving on from Tampa. He's just trying to get a couple of easy wins.
3:20No, no, no, no, no. Mike Evans is still one of the better receivers that we have in the game, especially when
3:27you put him in that category of, I'll call it X receivers, but Mike Evans has a lot of work inside the
3:34numbers now as well, close to the hash marks.
3:37I mean, this is just where the game is going.
3:40You get your big guys to be able to play in the slot.
3:44Evans is so good at that. And, I mean, you could just go to the first touchdown that he had where, okay,
3:51they're lined up close to the goal line. Mike Evans, he could have very well done one of his signature, you know,
3:58fades to the back pylon and then, you know, it's a contested catch above the rim.
4:03And he kind of fakes that he's going to do that a little bit.
4:07But then he gets so clean across the face of the defender.
4:11Boom, he creates that throwing window. Mike Evans is so good because not only does he still win physically, it's the fact
4:18that, okay, maybe he's not as fast as what he used to be.
4:22That football IQ is as sharp as it's ever been.
4:25He is aging so gracefully. And, I mean, he had a takeover drive in the second half where it was basically only
4:32Mike Evans, I think it was to start that fourth quarter.
4:35It was just unbelievable to watch. It was cool to have Brady in the booth for this game, obviously because of the
4:42connection that him and Brady had when they were in Tampa Bay.
4:46All these contested catches, second half of games, he's gutting it up.
4:49He's just a consummate pro, first ballot Hall of Famer.
4:52Big reason why Shanahan brought him here was to bring some of this greatness out in the other receiving core that he's got.
5:00And Evans has done that today. You could tell Brady's just like, that's my boy.
5:04That's my boy, Mike Evans, right there. Every single time that he came up with a big catch.
5:10But what a signing for the 49ers because can you imagine where this team would be right now without Mike Evans, given all the injuries that they have?
5:19He has been just a godsend for them this season and is a major reason why they got the win today.
5:25He may be an old man, but you just give him a corner he can start beef with.
5:31It's like Popeye getting his spinach. Did you see him?
5:34Did you see him? When he turned Diggs around him.
5:37Dude, he was like, wait a second, hold on.
5:40Who are you? Let me look at the nameplate.
5:43And Diggs was like, wait a second. And he almost goes to slap him away.
5:47Just an unbelievable, just chef kiss troll job. Forged, forged in Tampa Bay and New Orleans from the days of Marshawn Lattimore and Mike Evans going at it.
5:56And we need more of that. We need more corner wide receiver notable rivalries in this league.
6:01I think, by the way, he's reuniting with his best friend, Marshawn Lattimore, next week.
6:06So mark your calendars, folks. Evans v. Lattimore, part, I don't know, 12.
6:10Yeah, baby. I will say, beyond Evans taking this game over, something that really stuck out to me was just how much
6:17respect the next-gen stats win probability model gave to both of these teams.
6:21It was like they kind of acknowledged that both teams were really, really good because the sheer number of swings in the
6:28second half off of turnovers, the model was just going all over the place because of how good these two teams are.
6:34There are some teams where the better team turns it over and it moves like 5% because it's like, let's be real now.
6:42They're fine. This one, early in the third quarter, that Renardo Green interception, the Niners went up to an 83% win probability
6:48just from that because they had to lead in the second half.
6:52Then you get a turnover. By five minutes left, so nine minutes of game clock, five minutes left in the third quarter
6:59on the Debo fumble, they were down to 26% win probability.
7:02So that's like a 60% swing in nine minutes of game clock.
7:06Then you get to halfway through the fourth quarter.
7:09It's like 53-47, dead even. And then finally the Niners, you know, by that ending play with Cup, they win the game.
7:16But the win probability model was like, I don't know, man.
7:19It's two good teams. We'll see what happens. Couldn't figure it out.
7:23I mentioned that it wasn't Purdy's best game because nobody ever has their best game against Mike McDonald, let's be honest.
7:29But Purdy was pressured on 50% of his drop back.
7:33So that's a tough day at the office, no matter who you're going up against, obviously.
7:38It's her third highest rate in his career. He completed seven of 13 attempts under pressure for 72 yards.
7:43He got sacked three times, which he didn't get sacked at all through the first four weeks of the season.
7:50So they brought him down more than anybody else did because, well, nobody else did.
7:54However, after Purdy's interception, he was 10 for 11, 109 passing yards, a passing touchdown, and a 138.3 passer rating.
8:01So he definitely bounced back. But overall, seven turnovers in this game, resulting in 38 total points between the Niners and the Seahawks.
8:08And you mentioned Renardo Green there a second ago.
8:10I want to get to him because he had two of those turnovers with two interceptions in this game.
8:16And he is playing with so much confidence and high football IQ in Raheem Morris' defense.
8:21Overall in this game, as a neutral fan, it was everything I wanted it to be, right?
8:27It's two of the three best teams in the conference just throwing haymakers at each other, turnovers all over the place, points everywhere, drama, controversy.
8:34It was awesome. I understand Hawks and Niners fans were stressed watching this game, but as a neutral fan, it was everything
8:41I hoped it would and could be. And I can't wait for part two.
8:46That being said, next game I want to talk about was nothing like what I expected it to be.
8:52And that's Eagles versus Jacksonville, cross the pond over in London.
8:55This was sloppy. I would say the Jags were more sloppy than the Eagles for most of the game, than the Eagles were sloppy.
9:02A lot of penalties still from the Jags. Tons of penalties, yes.
9:06And ultimately, the Eagles capitalized on that sloppiness from the Jags for 99% of the game until the last, literally, the last two plays.
9:14They were down with eight seconds to go, but a great return by Abdullah puts Cam Little in position to kick the game winner.
9:21I just want you to know how many memes I had ready to fire at you on Twitter because my 10 confidence
9:28game lost on Thursday night and your 10 confidence, it looked like I was dead in the water, and then your 10
9:35confidence game was you picked the Jags over the Eagles.
9:38And when the Eagles kicked that field goal, oh, man, the holster was ready.
9:42I was about to just unload so many memes at you because we were going to be in the same exact spot.
9:49At that point, we would have both lost our 9 and 10 spot games at the same time.
9:55So I'm pretty sure the comments would have completely annihilated us this week as far as how many points they got.
10:01It'll just be me. It'll just be me. Probably.
10:04I'm just trying to get 40 points in one week one of these times.
10:08That'd be great. The Friday show is going to be must-watch YouTube television for you guys, just so you know.
10:15It's going to be bad. It's going to be real bad.
10:18But yeah, man, I mean, like, how does that happen with Philly?
10:22Like, just kick the touchback. Like, you got it.
10:24We talked about special teams, I feel like, so many times already on this show and how this feels like we kind
10:31of say it tongue-in-cheek, but it's not. It's like the year of special teams, the top of the show where I said
10:38the margin for error is so small. It always is in the NFL, but this year it feels smaller than ever.
10:45And if you're not winning in the little margins, including how you're handling special teams, this is the stuff that can happen.
10:52And the thing that gets me is the return that they popped, it was the same return formation that the opening kickoff
10:58of the game, which ultimately didn't count because of penalties and you had, like, ejections and everything like that.
11:04That opening kickoff return for touchdown was the same return formation.
11:08It was flipped, right? It was a strong return to the right rather than to the left.
11:13And it's a very simple return, right? You're just double-teaming the number four.
11:17You allow the number three to kind of shoot up field.
11:20The opposite return man that isn't catching the ball, he then becomes a lead on the one.
11:26And you just almost kind of create this fold blocks, very similar to a running play.
11:31And then you pop it and you got one man to beat and that's the kicker.
11:36Like, they already gave up a touchdown doing that early this game.
11:39And the only returns that they really stopped, it was like middle returns where they got, I don't know, 15, 18 yards.
11:46But as soon as they saw that same formation, which the Jags went back to because they already popped it in the
11:53game, they're like, we need a big return. Let's do the same thing.
11:57At that point, somebody should have raised their hand.
12:00It was like, hey, we already gave up one with this exact same formation.
12:04Kick the touchback. And they just didn't. I have no idea why they didn't do it.
12:09And you know what? I think everybody's going to talk about the touchback and how they should have kicked the touchback there.
12:16This probably doesn't happen if you do it. And, you know, Sirianni talked afterwards about, you know, it being on him and everything.
12:23Brett, I'd be more upset if I was an Eagles fan about how we got there and how there was even time left on the clock.
12:31Because if you go to the last series and the last four downs that the Eagles had when it came to kicking the field goal, all right?
12:40It's first and 10. Jacksonville has one timeout. Philadelphia has one timeout.
12:43And on first and 10, they throw to the sideline.
12:47It's almost intercepted. Then, okay, it's second and 10.
12:49Four seconds ran off the clock. So there's 21 seconds left in the game.
12:54Again, Jacksonville still has a timeout. It's at Jacksonville's 34-yard line.
12:57You're already well within field goal range. They call an outbreaking route for Makai Lemon.
13:02Okay, so he catches the football. Sure, great. Completion.
13:05He runs out of bounds. Jacksonville doesn't have to call the timeout now.
13:09Then on third and three, it's a run play that you kind of watch the offensive line.
13:14They're not really trying to get the first down.
13:17They're just trying to set up the field goal for the position that they want it.
13:22Then after the run play, Jacksonville takes their timeout.
13:24There's 12 seconds left in the game. They kick the field goal.
13:28Now there's eight seconds left in the game. But Brett, what bothers me here is that there were still eight seconds left in the game.
13:36I know that they don't have Saquon. I know the offensive line isn't great.
13:40But what this really comes down to, to me, is Jalen Hurts and the unwillingness or lack of preference that he has
13:47for throwing over the middle of the field. So Brett, if he throws that ball to Dallas Goddard, that's all you needed.
13:54Like you didn't need to get to the first down mark.
13:57You should have seen the cushion, been able to take the cushion.
14:01It's over the middle of the field. You're forcing Jacksonville to then burn that timeout on second down.
14:07You're in the same situation. And then because you still have a timeout, you get to run the ball, bring it down
14:14to two seconds left, call the timeout, kick the field goal, boom, we're going home.
14:18Fish and chips for everybody. That's the in the margin stuff.
14:22And when you go back to Jalen Hurts, you remember that Tennessee Titans game where they had that comeback win in week two?
14:29Guess what most of the concepts were? Outside the numbers.
14:32Because when the back is against the wall, I feel like they go, Jalen, let's just do what you are most comfortable with.
14:39And it worked for the Titans game because they marched down the field, they scored the touchdown they needed, and they won.
14:46But even though it quote unquote worked, here in this game, it didn't work as well as it could have or should
14:53have for them to win the game. And I think that that is just an observation that I've had with Hurts where
15:00even when it looks good, it's not as good as it could be because you've got to be able to take advantage over the middle of the field.
15:08And in this situation, if they would have been able to do that, Philadelphia wins this game and not Jacksonville.
15:14It's results over process compounded over years. Yes. Right.
15:17And we actually have data on this. It's not just us saying, trust me, bro, he doesn't throw over the middle of the field.
15:25NextGenStats was able to create a stat for us because of all the tracking data.
15:29They have the concept data. They have the target data.
15:33Like they have all that data. So let's just create a new stat table that we can reference.
15:38And it's the percentage of a quarterback's dropbacks that feature an intermediate in-breaking route over the middle of the field.
15:44And then we compare that to the percentage of those routes that they're actually targeting.
15:49If you look at Jalen last year, different OC, different personnel, 41% of his dropbacks featured an intermediate in-breaker, which was the fourth lowest rate in the NFL.
15:58So part of it, okay, was on the structure of the offense.
16:01And yet when they did have an intermediate in-breaker, he only threw it 17% of the time, which was the 10th lowest rate.
16:09So it was kind of both in that regard.
16:11Now 49% of his dropbacks feature an intermediate in-breaking route.
16:14That's 15th lowest. Let's just call it dead average in the league, right?
16:19He's still throwing it at a 16% rate. That's eighth lowest.
16:22He's actually throwing it less this year, even with an offense that's calling it more.
16:27So like this isn't just us talking out of our, he's not throwing it.
16:31We don't know why he's never done it. If you go back to 2020, right?
16:36When he came into the league, he has the lowest rate of targeting the middle of the field at all, whether it's deep, intermediate, short.
16:43He does it 18% of the time since 2020.
16:46He doesn't throw over the middle and defenses know that.
16:49Yeah. They call coverages specifically to play the sidelines because they know he doesn't like to do it.
16:55Whether it's been Kevin Petulo at OC or Sean Mannion or Kellen Moore, whoever, whoever, every single year, it feels like the
17:02Eagles offense kind of devolves into this. And I feel like at some point, the only thing linking all of these years
17:09together is the quarterback, not the OC. Yeah. And I mean, this is two weeks in a row now for the Eagles
17:15because they've blown having a 94% or higher win probability in the fourth quarter and haven't been able to come away with the win.
17:23And look, I know that people are probably tired of, Oh, Jalen Hurts doesn't throw her the middle.
17:28It's all anybody talks about, but hopefully this was a tangible way that we could point out to you guys that where what Jalen Hurts does works.
17:37How do you turn 16 games, injury reports, team notes, betting lines, and matchup trends into one clear weekend preview chat GPT
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18:47Monday night is made for the call that changes the game.
18:50The play that looks different on replay and the decision you'll still debate tomorrow.
18:55With that much to stay locked in for, dinner should be the easy part.
18:59Get a DiGiorno pizza ready before kickoff. Then enjoy restaurant quality taste, fresh from your own oven through the final snap.
19:05On the best night of the week, don't just make do, make DiGiorno.
19:09It's not delivery. It's DiGiorno. When you don't unlock the middle of the field, these are the things that can happen.
19:16Any thoughts on this game from any other big player performances?
19:19I mean, another great Parker Washington day. Jalen Carter was unbelievable in this game, but we got a lot of other player performances.
19:27So any thoughts on those guys before we move on to some other games?
19:31So Parker Washington apparently was offered $25 million a year this offseason, turned it down, bet on himself, and that bet is paying off.
19:38Six catches, buck 24, two touchdowns, his late touchdown, the completion probability on that was 21.7%, and he pulled it in.
19:45He is the number one in Jacksonville, and I think he's going to get paid like a number one receiver this offseason, whether it's in Jacksonville or elsewhere.
19:54But if I'm the Jags, how could I let him go with what he does for Trevor?
19:59Other Trevor. Long hair Trevor. You can't. And me.
20:02I mean, he's on a couple of my fantasy teams.
20:05What do you mean? And for me. And for me.
20:08Let's talk about the Patriots and the Raiders next.
20:11Patriots win this game 45-17. I'm not really too worried about this from a Raiders perspective.
20:16You and I have talked about how we are excited for this team, but they're not quite there yet.
20:22And we've talked about and mentioned how, okay, yeah, big time struggles for Drake May early on in the season.
20:28Big time bounce back performance here for Drake May.
20:3126-34, 374 yards, four touchdowns, no interceptions, and also had a rushing touchdown as well.
20:35Brett, what really stands out to me in this game was two things.
20:39And it's two sides of, I think, the same coin that we're having this conversation.
20:44How Drake May continues to look when you present him with press coverage opportunities where he could take advantage of close coverage
20:51and just bet on his guys one-on-one, mainly to the outside, the numbers and sideline parts of the field.
20:57Because in this game, most of May's passing production came against press coverage.
21:01118 of his 374 yards came when targeting pressed receivers.
21:04And the Raiders played it a lot. And so that was my big takeaway is, I kind of looked at the Raiders'
21:11defense game plan and I went, why? Like, you look at how May struggled early on in the year.
21:17It was that cover six look. It was softer coverage.
21:20It was deeper zone coverage where he'd have to really think about who, I mean, if you're one-on-one in press coverage, Drake May does that in sleep.
21:28We talked about this last week. He didn't get a ton of man coverage looks.
21:33He didn't get a ton of press coverage looks.
21:36But when he did, guess what? He took advantage of it.
21:39It's a big reason why they won that game last week.
21:42And I'm just very confused as to why the Raiders decided to go with that type of game plan, given how good
21:49Drake May is when you are in press coverage.
21:52So, that was a big surprise to me. But kudos to Drake May.
21:56When you give him the chance to bet on his receivers, he's going to do it.
22:01And history tells us he's going to do it pretty well.
22:04And to me, I think the press-heavy nature of this defense, no matter what the coverage call was, was in response to
22:11all of the chips that the Patriots were doing.
22:14Even before Will got injured, there was a really high chip rate against these Raiders' edges by the Patriots because they were
22:21trying to buy time for Drake to stretch the field.
22:24And so the Raiders were like, if you're disrupting us and buying time, we're going to disrupt you and buy time back.
22:31Like, literally on the edges of the field, right?
22:34Against the receivers. The thing is, though, you have to actually be able to disrupt these receivers and keep them from winning vertically down the field.
22:42Because if you don't, and Drake is kept clean because these Raiders' edges are getting chipped, and so he has a clean
22:49pocket, he's just going to put the ball wherever he wants to, deep and outside the numbers.
22:54We saw that in the Kyle Williams touchdown, which while it did look like it was against man coverage, it was a quarters look.
23:01He had three touchdowns against quarters today. He was like seven for eight for 117 and three tuts.
23:07Just against quarters. Because of the nature of that man-to-man on the outside.
23:11He eats this coverage alive because it's just one-on-one, right?
23:14So, the fact that the Raiders even gave him that opportunity, to me, was a mistake.
23:19And I think the fact that they responded to those chips with trying to disrupt these receivers in their own right, that's
23:26a mistake against this particular quarterback and these particular receivers.
23:29They did not play them correctly, and they got lit up as a result.
23:33100%. And sort of like I said at the beginning, I think that this is more of a compliment to what the Patriots were able to do in.
23:42I don't really see the Raiders in too different of a light.
23:46Although, an interesting note here for the Raiders is Fernando Mendoza did get in the game in this one because the score was so different.
23:54He was 6 for 8. 48 passing yards. Garbage time, obviously.
23:57But we're actually going to do a little video short later.
24:00We'll break down. It's limited action for Fernando Mendoza, so we didn't want to do like a full breakdown here on the show.
24:08But we'll have something later coming up on the channel so you guys can watch out for that.
24:13Because it is exciting that Fernando Mendoza got into the game for the first time.
24:18Another note before we button up this game here.
24:21May had six players who caught at least three passes.
24:24And that's the sign of a confident quarterback. That's the sign of somebody who is confident about wherever he's going to throw the football.
24:31And I think you feel that confident because you feel that confident against what the defense is presenting you against your receiver.
24:38So, let's move on to the next game. The Green Bay Packers.
24:42Man, speaking of games that had a difference on the scoreboard.
24:4531-7 here with the Chicago Bears. I think the main storyline is Jordan Love and how good he looked in this game.
24:52You want to talk about... We just talked about when May is feeling confident in what he is seeing.
24:58Jordan Love is always as confident as he possibly can be when he is that fadeaway deep ball passer.
25:04And in this game, he could not have been more than that in the best way.
25:09completed six of eight passes of 20 or more air yards for a career-high 258 yards on those deep passes.
25:15Two touchdowns. That's also the most deep completions of 20 or more air yards of any quarterback this season in a single game.
25:22And it's a career-high in a single game for Jordan Love as well.
25:26Only Russell Wilson, who had 264 yards in Week 2 of 2025, had more deep passing yards in a single game in the NGS era.
25:34So all that to say, Brad, as I said on Twitter, there's always ammo in the rocket launcher when you're Jordan Love.
25:41It doesn't matter what the game script is. It doesn't matter whether you're up, down, by 30, by 40, by 1, by 2.
25:48Rain, sleet, shine. He'd be playing on Antarctica. It doesn't matter.
25:51If there's a deep pass to be had, Jordan Love is going to throw it.
25:56And again, I think that you get the results that you have today when he is playing that confidently because that's how
26:03Jordan Love wants to play the game. Yeah, just a casual 32 yards per attempt on deep passes in this game.
26:09Which is nuts, dude. Just nuts. I mean, it helps when you have Christian Watson and Matthew Golden.
26:15And Matthew Golden, I think, has actually been kind of underappreciated this season.
26:19It feels like every time I watch a Packers game, he's doing something cool.
26:23Also, side note before we move on, the entire NFC North after this game is above 500.
26:29You have three teams that are 3-2, and you have one team that's 5-0.
26:33So we thought this division was going to be really good before the season.
26:37They're definitely really good as a whole. They're not good in the ways that we thought they would be, but the record is the record, I guess.
26:46It's definitely wacky. Technically, the Bears are last in the NFC North right now.
26:50Which, by the way, I'm not worried about the Bears at all, really.
26:54Like, I know they got killed in this game.
26:57It wasn't pretty. To me, it was a really bad day for their safeties.
27:01We already kind of knew the defense was going to be not one of the better defenses in the NFL, if I do say so, so politely.
27:10But they've been better than I thought that they would as a unit for the majority of the first quarter of this season.
27:17This is just a really bad day, I think, for all deep coverage.
27:21Again, specifically, I don't think the safeties had a really good day for them.
27:25And Jordan Love picked them apart. So, to me, it was kind of a perfect storm of what went wrong in Chicago.
27:32I'm not worried about this team long-term. By the way, most passing yards by a Packers quarterback versus the Bears specifically at Lambeau Field.
27:40Jordan Love, 367 yards on Sunday. Number one on the list.
27:43Had a Brett Favre, had Aaron Rodgers, had a Lynn Dickey, who had 345 in 1983.
27:48Let's go. May we never forget? Actually, unfortunately, we might forget it now because Jordan Love's now at the top of that list.
27:55I'm shocked that Aaron never did that in all those years at Lambeau.
27:59Aaron had 341, so he had a lot in 2021.
28:02Before we move on from this game, I want to give one more note about a Packers receiver destroying the Bears.
28:09This is the first time a Packers receiver has got multiple 40-plus yard touchdowns in a single game since Jordy Nelson, was
28:16it 12 years ago, also conveniently against the Bears.
28:18So it's... This was a pretty significant performance by Christian Watson.
28:22He's also the only player in the NFL to have multiple 140-plus yard games with multiple touchdowns, so he is on an absolute tear right now.
28:30one of the most productive players in any position in the NFL in this young season.
28:35Speaking of, receivers, by the way... Yes? We should talk about Marvin Harrison Jr.
28:39getting traded. It broke right after the Texans-Titans game was over.
28:43Yes. All right, we traded for Marvin Harrison. See ya.
28:46So the whole all-in or all-out in the season hinged on beating the Titans, right?
28:50Yeah, basically. That's how we followed it. If they would have lost to the Titans and it would have been 0-5, this trade doesn't happen.
28:58But because they beat the Titans, which I think is kind of funny because the Jags are now 4-1, the Texans are
29:051-4, the chances of winning the division are extremely slim for them, so you're now all-in just to make the wild card.
29:12They feel, because they still have two games against the Jags, they can steal that margin back from them.
29:18They hold their own destiny. Sure, sure, sure, sure.
29:21That's how they look at it, right? And just last year, they were 0-3 to start and still made the playoffs with 12 wins.
29:28So they know they can go on a run here.
29:31I think they won like nine straight at one point last year.
29:35I mean, for them, the key thing is, hey, our quarterback is playing really well.
29:40Right, right, yeah. So why don't we lean into that?
29:43I just thought it was funny that the Titans game specifically was the we're all in or we're all out after this game.
29:50Well, I think it's if you lose to Tennessee this year, you're like, oh, we're just bad.
29:55Yeah, yeah. Which, by the way, man, I mean, Tennessee, I think we'll have a much longer conversation about the Titans when
30:02we start to talk about teams that are maybe turning the page and we're looking at the offseason because I think that's
30:09sort of where we're at with the Titans. But for the Texans, they get, I'll call it an easy win.
30:15It's an easy win. And then after the game, they trade for Marvin Harrison Jr.
30:20Now, the compensation for this trade, a 2027 seventh round pick comes with Marvin Harrison Jr.
30:25So Marvin Harrison in a 2027 seventh round pick going to the Houston Texans and going to the Arizona Cardinals is a
30:31second round pick this upcoming draft and then a sixth round pick.
30:35So a late round pick swap, but mainly you are looking at a second round pick type of value for Marvin Harrison
30:42who was obviously picked number four overall. So that's not a great return on investment for the Cardinals specifically, but he was
30:49getting outplayed and he has been getting outplayed basically since he got there.
30:53So overall, your thoughts on the trade and your thoughts on the fit here with the Houston Texans?
30:58I don't think this trade happens if Jaden Higgins doesn't get hurt before the season starts.
31:03I'm with you, which is why I'm a little, I'm a little skeptical of the overall value of a second round pick
31:10here because I look, Higgins got hurt. I get it.
31:13He tore his ACL. It's nothing that's light, but man, I feel like we're I feel like we're seeing players all across
31:20the league over the last two or three years, not just come back from ACL injuries, but like come back and play
31:27really, really well just because of how things are with surgeries and rehab and everything.
31:32So I was, I was a little shocked at them giving up a second round pick for Marvin Harrison Jr.
31:38knowing that a year from now, you kind of now just have two players who play the exact same position, but I
31:45suppose they really didn't want Nico Collins playing the X at all.
31:49So maybe more X receivers, the better in this offense potentially.
31:52Not that Nico can't play the X. Obviously, he can play the X.
31:56When Nico is on the ball, he has a yards per route run of 2.2, which is very solid.
32:02The thing is, when Nico's off the ball and you give him space to work, especially because he is a big, strong
32:09receiver, like if he's not disrupted and he just gets rolling, he overwhelms corners.
32:13Nico's at a Z spot or in the slot.
32:16If he's off the ball, his yards per route run goes from 2.2 to 4.1, which is ridiculous.
32:21But you kind of have to put him on the ball if you don't have anybody else that you feel comfortable with being an X receiver.
32:30And Marvin Harrison Jr., while he hasn't reached the potential that we thought he could coming out of Ohio State, when he's
32:36on the ball, he's at 1.9 yards per route run.
32:39When he's off the ball, he's at 0.9 yards per route run, which is a not good number at all.
32:46So Marvin really does thrive being on the ball.
32:49And so you just kind of park him there at X and you have Nico be, you know, the queen on the
32:55chessboard that can move all over the place. Xavier Hutchinson can still contribute.
32:59Obviously, Jalen Noel can still contribute. But I think they needed to get that X receiver.
33:04And as for the compensation, if they lost to Tennessee and they go at 0-5 and they don't make the playoffs, I
33:11think Casario and D'Amico were thinking, would we even be around to use those picks anyway?
33:16Right? Not to say that they're on the hot seat, but you can get on the hot seat pretty quick here.
33:23I hear what you're saying. Look, I'm more skeptical of this and maybe I shouldn't have this much face of a guy
33:30coming off of an ACL tear, but I thought Jaden Higgins looked good.
33:34I thought he was progressing. Certainly before he got hurt, I was really excited about Jaden Higgins this season.
33:39And Brett, Jaden Higgins is a better athlete than Marvin Harris Jr.
33:43is. I know neither of them are super great separators, but you look at Jaden Higgins and just his overall like combine
33:50profile here, 60 and 65th percentile when it came to 40-yard dash and 10-yard split, but then vertical jump, I mean, 85th
33:57percentile vertical jump, 85th percentile broad jump. This is an explosive athlete.
34:01So if you're going to say, hey, we want somebody on the line of scrimmage to be our X receiver who's going
34:07to be our vertical player to free up Nico Collins, I tell you, Jaden Higgins does that better than Marvin Harrison Jr.
34:14At least right now. You're not wrong, but I think the Texans know better than most other teams that you can go
34:21from a really deep receiving core to having absolutely nobody really quickly.
34:25I think of a year from now, it's Nico Collins, it's Jaden Higgins, it's Jalen Noel playing the slot, and then you
34:32get to draft another receiver as every team does every single year because wide receiver is so deep coming out of college.
34:39So I'm just, I'm a little bit more skeptical about it, but I will say this, if you're just going to be
34:45a contested catch receiver, which I kind of think that Marvin Harrison Jr.
34:49is just a contested catch receiver in the NFL, you might as well be a contested catch receiver with a quarterback that
34:56you have good chemistry with because that's the only way that works.
35:00And Harrison has chemistry with CJ Stroud going back to that 2022 season when they were playing together when Harrison Jr.
35:07was a sophomore and CJ was a junior, I believe.
35:10So I suppose that's the catalyst for it as well is that you're hoping that you're unlocking that chemistry that they had.
35:16In the last 15 to 17 years, there's only been three top five overall draft picks that have been traded in their
35:23first three seasons and they were Aaron Curry, Trent Richardson, and Trey Lance.
35:27So hopefully this doesn't end up like that. And look, Arizona was very, very willing to give up on him because you
35:34have Trey McBride and you have Michael Wilson, right?
35:37And I think they wanted Marvin Harrison Jr. to be a lot more than a contested catch player because they have the contested catch player in Trey McBride.
35:46But man, when this trade happened, I went back and I watched some Ohio State stuff back from 2022, some of the
35:53highlights just from CJ and Marvin Harrison Jr. It's kind of crazy how much more talented that Ohio State team is than basically everybody that they played against.
36:01I'm skeptical of them giving up the second round pick, but hey, you're one in four.
36:06CJ is playing better. You hope that your defense bounces back and obviously they're just hoping that this isn't a wasted year.
36:13So you pay a little bit of a premium for this to not be more of a wasted year.
36:19But I don't know, maybe I'm just too much of a Jaden Higgins fan to let this sit well with me.
36:25I will say a lot of people on the internet have said this is why we don't give the generational label to
36:32prospects because we don't know until they get to the NFL.
36:36You're correct. But that being said, there is an actual generational receiver coming out of Ohio State this year.
36:42We talk about him a lot in the spring.
36:44Even watching Marvin Jr.'s tape at Ohio State compared to Jeremiah Smith.
36:48Let's go back to some top performances that we had this week highlighting some of these games.
36:53The Pittsburgh Steelers got a victory over the Indianapolis Colts.
36:5734-22 in this game. The star, look, I know when we talk about the Steelers, sometimes we're talking about the defensive line,
37:03we're talking about Aaron Rodgers, we're talking about a lot of kinds of stuff.
37:08Dude, Jalen Warren is a story this season. How well he is playing and specifically in this game how fantastic he was.
37:1515 carries, 101 rushing yards, one touchdown, 50 yards over expected.
37:18and he also ran 24 routes, 6 targets, 6 catches, 87 receiving yards and a touchdown there as well.
37:24Dude, I love Jalen Warren's style of play because when you go watch some of the big plays from him in this
37:31game, Brett, there's inside zone, there's manning gap scheme blocking concepts, there's some outside zone, there's swing passes, there's routes that he's running out of the backfield.
37:39He does it all and the reason why is because he's a high IQ football player, he's got great vision, fantastic contact
37:46balance, light on his feet, his 59 rushing yards after missed tackles this week are second only to Bucky Irving and everybody
37:53watched the Thursday night football game where Bucky had that insane run where it was a forced missed tackle and then a
38:00cutback and then he's just off to the races.
38:02So outside of that Bucky Irving run, Jalen Warren did it better than anybody that wasn't named Bucky Irving this week and
38:09so had to give him his flowers with how the Steelers were able to get a win over the Colts and him being a big reason why.
38:18And he's been like that all year, right? Even coming into this week, he was among the league leaders in terms of
38:25missed tackles Forrest as well as yardage after missed tackles like he and Kenneth Walker were, you know, pretty close to each
38:31other in that metric and Kenneth has been obviously incredible this year as well.
38:36Warren, fun fact, became the first player with an 80 yard receiving touchdown and a 50 yard rushing touchdown in the same
38:43game since Herschel Walker versus the Eagles in 1986.
38:45Because they still have two games against the Jags, they can steal that margin back from them.
38:51They hold their own destiny. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
38:54That's how they look at it, right? And just last year, so we are talking 40 years since a player's done that for any team against anyone.
39:02That's awesome. It's just a ridiculous, ridiculous performance. He's been awesome this year.
39:06He led the team in rushing and receiving. He led the team in rushing and receiving today.
39:11That's amazing. He's incredible. He's incredible. And that's what's really hard.
39:15I think one of the underrated races this year is all pro for running back.
39:20Who do you pick? Right? B. John's going off this year.
39:23Kenneth Walker's been going off. Jalen Warren. I mean, the running backs across the league are just putting on a show.
39:29I can't pick one. Yeah, man. You didn't even mention Gibbs, did you?
39:34No. You didn't even mention Jimmy Gibbs and Jimmy Gibbs, he went nuclear in his game as well.
39:39I mean, when you go to this Lions game against the Cardinals, it wasn't very close.
39:44It was 45 to 21. But Gibbs, again, man, 25 carries, 151 rushing yards, two touchdowns, 6.0 yards per carry average, almost
39:5150 rushing yards over expected from him as well.
39:54Gibbs, six targets, five receptions, 56 receiving yards. It just feels like every single time the ball is in his hand, you
40:01just, you have to stop what you're doing. because you might be about to watch something extremely special in this game.
40:07And he has also been unbelievable and it's a reason why Detroit's offense is what it is.
40:12Detroit's offense has to pick up their defense for any game that they want to win this season, but oh boy, they're
40:19thankful that they have Jameer Gibbs to be able to do that.
40:23Don't tell Kelvin Shepard that. Look, man, I just read the stats.
40:27Yeah, that's all I'm doing. I'm just, I'm here on this show.
40:30Anything that you put on that teleprompter, sick of a will read when it comes to the stats and how teams are doing this season.
40:38That's all it is there. Football is a game of ands.
40:42Offense and defense. Run and pass. Block and tackle.
40:44Home and away glory and heartbreak. It's like how Nationwide is both a great insurance company and financial services company.
40:51And they have a pretty sweet jingle too. For your insurance and financial needs, Nationwide is on your side.
40:57Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, member FINRA, Columbus, Ohio. In business, there's the easy way with staples or the hard way.
41:03Hard means your call is important to us and will be answered by the next available automated voice.
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41:11Hard means Glenn, the marketing materials you ordered were delivered to Portland.
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41:21Don't choose hard, choose Staples. That was easy. Visit staples.com to learn more about our business solutions.
41:26Some people use ChatGPT to answer questions. Others use it to get real work done.
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42:15Dr. Thiel's. Yep, you needed that. Minnesota, 5-0. How, Kyler, looking, finally looking good this season.
42:20Yeah, he's, he's so deadly with his legs and he's always been that kind of guy when he's in space where he
42:27just, somebody put it today, I can't remember who, that he just exhausts defenses because he's so hard to kind of hem
42:34in when he's in space and he just makes you cut over and over and over again to keep up with his quickness and he wears people out.
42:42That's how he gets a lot of his rushing guard.
42:45It's not breaking tackles. It's not running over people.
42:48He just tires you out with his shiftiness and especially in, you know, third and long situations or in high leverage situations,
42:55he has this knack for just getting the exact amount of yardage that he needs.
43:00I do wish as a passer we could get him to throw over the middle more going into this week.
43:06The Vikings had the fourth highest rate of intermediate middle routes as far as the percentage of his dropbacks.
43:12Fourth highest rate featuring an intermediate middle route and yet he's thrown them at the lowest rate in the NFL so that's still a thing, right?
43:20That was a problem in Arizona. We always talked about it and it's still a problem in Minnesota.
43:25They're trying to get him to throw over the middle and he's just not doing it but if all else fails if
43:32you still have that mobility in your back pocket it's a pretty good back pocket card to have.
43:38I think that what I was impressed with him today against the Saints was the way that he was going through progressions.
43:45I felt as though he was willing to hold on to the ball and where Kyler will scramble and he's not the
43:52tallest quarterback in the NFL so sometimes he's got to get on motion to make sure that he can see everything that's
43:58going on in front of him including the middle of the field but he's able to go through those progressions and I
44:05didn't feel like he was panicking while doing so and that's why I felt like it was a really good performance for him.
44:12I think he is settling in to where his receivers are going to be the timing of that and it was always
44:19going to take a little bit of a time but it's good to see he is getting better and that week five
44:26was the best performance I think of his season there for the Vikings.
44:30I know we've done this every single week we should talk about Justin Herbert again and just how sloppy this has looked
44:37the fumbles were a problem once more the inaccuracy the decision making dude the interception in the second half I mean again
44:44it's he's staring at the defender he's staring at the defender I don't know what to do man I don't either it's
44:51bad I don't know who this is I know but we're five weeks into the season and it still looks like this
44:57I don't are they going to blow it up?
45:00I don't yeah I don't even know at this point because you know if there was a if there was a generational
45:07quarterback type of a prospect right if there was a Trevor Lawrence if there was an Andrew Luck right if there was
45:14somebody like that who you were guaranteed at number one overall the Chargers are 0-5 and it still looks ugly for this
45:21team and they're extremely beat up by injuries the offensive line that they tried it out there I mean I love that
45:28the young guys are getting experience but my goodness that's not a recipe to win football games I mean Herbert's been pressured
45:34on 43.8% of his dropbacks this season second highest rate among qualified quarterbacks and above his previous career high which was 41.2%
45:41last season so we already talked about all the different combinations of offensive lines that the Chargers have had and that part
45:48of it's not getting any easier for Justin Herbert but he's also making it hard it's almost like Herbert I don't want
45:55to say he's giving up because that's not fair and that's not the words that I want to use but it's almost
46:02like you could tell he's worn down he's worn down of either playing in the offense that he was playing in last
46:09year the pressure that he was getting this year it's no different now they're sitting here at 0-5 the vibes couldn't be
46:15worse and again going back to if Arch Manning kind of had become the prospect that we thought that he was going
46:22to become which he absolutely has not yet maybe you think about blowing the whole thing up but I still I don't
46:29think they're going to do it I don't think they're going to do it we have such a large sample size of
46:36Justin Herbert being great I'm not ready to ditch it after five games I'm not either because I want to be I
46:43want to be very clear because I saw people talking about this on social media Justin Herbert right now full contract full
46:50context everything Justin Herbert's QB1 in this class not even close not in a I guess we can talk about Mestamaker when
46:56we get there because he's put some good stuff on and Mestamaker is great I don't think it's close Justin Herbert I
47:03would still take him over any quarterback in this class I'm not saying that Mestamaker would make me move off Justin Herbert
47:10I'm just saying in this class that might be the best you're going to get I think so maybe right and so
47:17I'm still not moving off Justin Herbert but I guess the question I want to ask is is anyone else in the
47:24building safe literally anybody else no not right now certainly you got a lot of season left to go but right now
47:31no no I don't think anybody's safe in that building also just to kind of preempt the Broncos fans in the chat
47:37who I know are vigorously typing right now you can't just talk about one team here talk about the team that won
47:44I agree the defense was amazing they were very good in this game yes 10 pressures in the second half 4 sacks
47:51in the second half we have talked over and over and over again about how this Broncos defense when you get after
47:58halftime they just turn into a completely new nightmare for opposing offense they're great adjustments oh my god we talked earlier in
48:05the year about how some fans like to be like where were the adjustments in the second half and a lot of
48:12times it's not really a thing you maybe go about executing a game plan a little bit differently but a lot of
48:19times you know you can go into a week and it's kind of like hey this is how we saw this team
48:25this is how we're going to match up against this team we got to execute it a little bit better but the
48:32Broncos kind of feels like they have that good of a defense and that good of a defense coordinator to be able
48:39to do it because that's what they did to Trevor Lawrence in week two they switched up and they're like alright fine
48:46we're going to play more aggressive you're killing us against zone guess what we're going to do we're going to play way
48:53more man in the second half and it worked alright a few more games we want to touch on before we get
49:00out of here have to start with the Jets beating the Browns in dramatic fashion right this game had a little bit
49:06of everything I think it was the David Bailey game that everybody's been kind of waiting for nine pressures including five quick
49:13pressures three sacks in this game on 28 rushes which was a 32.1% pressure rate he even got a sack on a
49:20power move which we weren't sure if he had that in his bag coming into the league because he was really more
49:27of a speed guy first I want to ask you as our resident draft guru where were you at on Bailey pre-draft
49:34and did you think he had this in him so I had Bailey as a top 20 player like everybody did but
49:41I was a little bit lower on him because when I watched him at Texas Tech his first step exposed to this
49:47is unbelievable and I think that's one of the most important traits for an edge rusher but I felt like he was
49:54kind of only that when he was in college and it was so good that it just kind of feasted on a
50:01lot of the bad offensive tackles that he went up against in college so this is a diverse game for him and
50:08I think that this was his best game from what I saw this was David Bailey's best game because what he needs
50:15to do is of course convert that first step into power to round out his game a little bit more and I
50:22felt like this was there were some stats that people pointed to with him through the first four weeks of the season
50:28where I was like kind of lying to you a little bit there but this game I think was the most legit
50:35game from David Bailey so far in his career Bengals Dolphins Dolphins have obviously started a ton of rookies so far this
50:42year I would say with fairly positive results all things considered but they are still a work in progress very much so
50:49a work in progress and sometimes you run into Joe Burrow having a Joe Burrow kind of day four touchdowns from him
50:56this game I think it was closer on paper than it was when I was actually watching it but I still every
51:03single week I see glimpses I see glimpses of what the Dolphins are building towards I just acknowledge they're probably not going
51:09to win a lot of games but they will be good TV I guess is the best way that I'll describe it
51:16they're not going to get blown out a lot because they do have a bunch of young exciting talent but they're probably
51:23a year away from being a year away yeah the Bengals never dipped below 75% of a win probability from NGS in
51:30this game Malik Willis just is not consistent enough I think that there are moments again where you can see things from
51:37the Dolphins but this is such a young team they're playing so many rookies and Malik just doesn't have that consistency yet
51:44it's hard to really see them beating teams of the Bengals caliber but on the Bengals side of things for as much
51:51as it is like hey let's play the Bengals big game big game on offense I'm still kind of worried overall about
51:57this run game because where Samadji P. Ryan had 14 carries 68 yards 4.9 yards per carry average Chase Brown who they
52:04would like to be their bell cow back 13 carries 39 rushing yards 3.0 yards per carry average and we're coming off
52:11of a week where they really struggled to get anything going on the ground at all and even for a quarterback like
52:18Joe Burrow with the receivers that he has at his disposal you can't be so one-dimensional in this league and beat really
52:25good football teams and so I'm still worried about that Bengals run game a little bit moving forward somehow we've gone this
52:32entire show without talking about it so we might as well do it now Commanders Giants that ending sequence there's no excuse
52:38there's absolutely no excuse I know Dan Quinn took responsibility and you know Jaden took responsibility in his way even though in
52:45the presser he did say yeah it starts from the top down but ultimately it's on me I would have just said
52:52the second part of that sentence ultimately it is on you like whether you get told over the headset hey let's spike
52:59this or hey let's throw a quick completion whether they tell you to do it or not over the headset you should
53:06just know to do it like you're the one with the ball so I yeah I don't like that answer in the
53:13presser either way it was bad it was just bad I don't know how much speculating that I want to do over
53:19words that weren't actually said but it does seem like a situation where I think Dan Quinn wanted Jaden to be a
53:26little bit more aware of the situation and I think that Jaden was like man I'm trying to think of a million
53:33things how do you not just like say that to me amongst the other things that you're saying here and I think
53:40that it really it did seem like there was a little bit of okay yes the majority of the time they were
53:47trying to take responsibility for it and they were like no no it's on me but they both let a little bit
53:54like Jaden said the thing about yeah it's a top down and then Dan Quinn was answering a question and Dan Quinn
54:00was basically like yeah the ball's got to come out it's got to be a spike or it's got to be out
54:07and he said it very confidently and I don't know again I don't want to I don't want to put words in
54:14anybody's mouth but it was a situation where however we get there it has to be better executed and I and I
54:21think that both of those guys are right when they do say it's on me because I think that both of them
54:28obviously could have handled it better to not end that game the way that it is because that's that's pretty inexcusable that
54:35Washington didn't at least get a field goal off to try to win that game where does the buck stop though in
54:41that situation does it stop with the coach or does it stop with the quarterback yes me I think it stops the
54:48quarterback I would say because you're on the field you got the ball I think the quarterbacks got to understand I was
54:55a little surprised at how lackadaisical it felt with them the way that they were taking all the time off the clock
55:02I don't want to be hypocritical here because I talked about y'all Philly needed to do a better job of that but
55:09they had a little bit more control there I wonder if Jaden in his head just the way that they were operating
55:16things thought they still had a time out but even if he thought that you got yeah I think that he did
55:23as well and I think that even with that context you have to say dude you have to know that you don't
55:29have a time out there you are the quarterback you have the ball in your hand I think ultimately he has to
55:36know what to do with the football I know he's young I do but these are the kind of situations that you
55:43look back on at the end of the season and if you're a game away from missing the playoffs or in this
55:50case a half game away from missing the playoffs and you think back to just the tiniest little thing like either remembering
55:57that we don't have a time out or just remembering to spike the ball if we go an entire season and that's
56:04the difference between making the playoffs and not I would just be sick to my stomach and obviously we're recording the show
56:10before Monday Night Football and we got Rams Bills on Monday Night Football huge game in prime time here Brett any overall
56:17thoughts on that game before it happens I've said it before I'll say it again this is a game where we are
56:24going to see some astonishing throws truly astonishing throws and also the dumbest turnover of the year book it guarantee it we
56:31are going to see an abomination of an interception and we see enough already this week in week five haven't we seen
56:38enough turnovers you know it's coming I think that's a great way to preview this game because it's going to be must
56:45watch television whether it's good or bad it's going to be must watch television either way between the Bills and the Rams
56:51appreciate everybody watching this reaction show a lot from this show game management stuff again special teams teams forming their identities sometimes
56:58bucking some trends man that's what it's all about so we're five weeks in the season we're learning a lot we're having
57:05a lot of fun we appreciate you that you guys are here along for the ride for the producers making it all
57:12happen behind the scenes because this is always a beast of a show every single time that we record it to get
57:19ready for the Monday release shout out to them all of the great footage that they find for us the stats all
57:26that great stuff appreciate that all of them doing that for Brett Coleman as well Trevor Sikkema saying thanks so much for
57:32watching we'll see you guys on Friday thanks for listening to our week five reaction podcast listen to NFL pro on the
57:39iHeartRadio app Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts ass you