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PodcastFrom Bootleg Football

You can't out-Panther the Panthers

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 5 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Aug 29, 2026
Published
Sat, August 29, 2026
9
Player insights
8
Players mentioned
Topics
Bryce YoungAJ DillonDarren WallerFeleipe FranksHaynes KingJalen CokerJonathon BrooksRico Dowdle
Player analysis

Player insights

9

AJ Dillon

PositiveUsage34:56

AJ Dillon was brought in to serve as a short-yardage specialist, a role the Panthers struggled with last season despite having other talented backs.

Insight page

Bryce Young

NegativeProjection20:36

Bryce Young struggled significantly in 2025, ranking 33rd in average intended air yards at just 6.9, which placed him behind a one-legged Mac Jones. The offense overall was 25th in passing EPA per play and 27th in scoring, reflecting a lack of explosive playmaking ability.

Insight page
NegativeProjection57:08

The source suggests Bryce Young needs to take a 'baby step' forward by throwing the ball vertically, as he was the 33rd-ranked quarterback in vertical passing last season; his development is critical to the team's 10-win ceiling.

Insight page

Darren Waller

NegativeDepth Chart35:03

Darren Waller has joined the Panthers and is expected to be the third or fourth tight end on the depth chart.

Insight page

Feleipe Franks

NegativeDepth Chart35:52

Felipe Franks has successfully transitioned to tight end and has made plays in camp, though he remains on the roster bubble.

Insight page

Haynes King

NegativeSleeper53:43

Haynes King is described as a gutsy, tough, Swiss-army-knife player who is likely to make the team as a UDFA, though his physical durability is a concern due to the significant mileage on his body.

Insight page

Jalen Coker

PositiveValue31:40

Jalen Coker is viewed as a complete, ascending young receiver who fits the Panthers' system well; the $11 million contract is considered money well spent.

Insight page

Jonathon Brooks

PositiveRole30:15

Jonathan Brooks is back and scored his first career touchdown, though the source notes the team cannot solely rely on him due to his injury history.

Insight page

Rico Dowdle

NegativeDepth Chart30:05

Rico Dowdle is no longer with the Panthers, with the source noting that the team's depth at running back made him expendable.

Insight page
Full transcript

Episode Transcript

746
0:00We will always be fascinated by sports. We love the unexpected.
0:04No matter how much we study, analyze, debate, teams still have to lace them up and play the games.
0:10And sometimes, against every logical argument, the underdogs win.
0:13Carolina might be one of the most honest teams in the NFL.
0:16They know who they are and they play accordingly.
0:19That also means they're good at acknowledging their weaknesses.
0:22And they've attacked those this offseason with well-targeted moves.
0:25Will that be enough to put this lovable but flawed team on a path to even greater victories?
0:31Or is it all just a mirage that will melt away under increased pressure this year?
0:36Young, under pressure, steps away, fires, scores, touchdown! Another one for Ted Aroa McMillan!
0:41It's day 24 of the Bootleg Summer Series and we're spending it focused on whether or not the Panthers can claw their
0:48way back to real relevance in the NFC. Welcome to Bootleg.
0:51A ball's almost back. Welcome to the Bootleg Football Podcast.
0:55I'm Brett Coleman, that's EJ Snyder, and this is Woodinville Bourbon, which I will need a lot of today.
1:01Because, oh my God, EJ. That's the first thing I want to say.
1:05Oh my God. When you really dive into what this team was last year, it is a miracle that they won the NFC South.
1:13Not to spoil the power score, but I'm going to spoil the power score.
1:17This was like a bottom six team in the NFL.
1:20The lowest rated team in their own division, in the lowest rated division in the NFL.
1:26And they fucking won it. Yeah. Like, what the hell?
1:29With a losing record. The winning team in the division had a losing record, had a power score that was 27th.
1:36I'll just continue the spoilage. Like, this is a janky division and the Panthers were somehow the crazy beneficiaries.
1:42Benefit of summer series. We're going to dig in, peel back all those layers of the onion and tell you how they
1:49managed to do that, even though it was wildly unlikely.
1:52They did manage to do it. It still will.
1:55I mean, go ahead, hang the banner, put it up in the Raptors.
1:59And I see South champions 2025, but a really strange team.
2:03I feel like the perception of this team is a team on the rise, a young team, some good young talent.
2:09When you again benefit of looking at the entire league during the summer, take it up and compare them to their peers.
2:17You go, Ooh, they still got a lot of work to do.
2:20Like we knew they had work to do, but I felt like they maybe had a little bit less than this.
2:27I don't know about you. I mean, they did do a lot of that work this off season, which we will talk about.
2:35Like they had linebacker issues galore last year, brought in a linebacker, had pass rush issues galore last year, brought in a pass rusher.
2:42You know, we thought they might've had some tackle issues because the Iki Aquano issue kind of lucked out and there was
2:49a really good tackle available for them in the first round, which most people didn't think was going to happen.
2:56And you know, they've had some bad luck since then with losing pass rushers to injury and all that.
3:02But I mean, man, when you go through and watch this team, like they felt better in the moment while watching the game.
3:09Yeah. And then when you pour through all the data, you're like, how did they survive?
3:15I mean, we have an answer for that, but like it, it's crazy.
3:19Like how much of a knife's edge this team was on.
3:22So, uh, Panthers fans, I promise it's not gonna be a negative episode.
3:27It's actually very complimentary, but more so just wild.
3:29Like this team is just, just wild with how they pulled it off.
3:34So I encourage you guys sit down, grab a drink.
3:37Again, we have Woodinville Whiskey with us on this show and every other show.
3:41If you want to check out Woodinville, you can go either the link in the description below or the QR code on the screen.
3:49This is the port cask finish. But if you're not a port cask finish kind of person, they have rise, they have regular straight up bourbon.
3:58They have like applewood finishes, pretty much anything you can think of.
4:01It is all excellent, all sourced and made from the state of Washington by where EJ is.
4:07It's like an hour away from him. Just excellent, excellent stuff.
4:10So, uh, Panthers fans pour something strong because, uh, we have a lot of really, really bad numbers to go through here.
4:18We'll go through 2025 as quickly as we can, because at least in terms of the results section, the house section, we'll
4:25spend a little bit more time on, but the what of the 2025 season for the Carolina Panthers.
4:30Again, overall record eight and nine losing record, but won the division.
4:34They were first home record of five and three road record of three and six last five games, two and three up and down.
4:42And honestly, I would have been surprised if it was anything else for this team, because that's the way the whole season went.
4:49We talk about certain teams that have quarters or thirds of seasons that go one way and then tilt strongly the other way.
4:57This was kind of a roller coaster from start to finish.
5:00This was not a team that was powering through the first half and something terrible happened in the bottom dropped out.
5:07They just scrapped every single week in this division, which is a crazy division to start with.
5:13And that's what they ended up with. So let's talk about that power score.
5:17The way that we build a power score is six numbers that we think is our representative of a team playing football.
5:24Well, passing EPA per play, rushing EPA per play defense against the pass and the rush again by EPA per play points scored and points allowed.
5:33So we'll just run through the Panthers numbers. These are their league ranks passing EPA per play.
5:38They were 25th rushing EPA per play. They were tied for 21st.
5:42I felt like this was a better rushing team.
5:45Like you said in the moment watching tapes like yeah, they can get first down so they want to in balance overall.
5:52Not really against the pass 24th against the rush almost identical 23.
5:56You talked about linebacker issues. We're going to talk about linebacker issues in general today.
6:01All of that led to a point scored in terms of their scoring offense being 27th.
6:06If you can only put up the 27th best or I guess that's what is it?
6:11Fifth worst amount of points in the NFL. You're not going to win a ton of games.
6:17I don't care how good or how balanced a team you are.
6:20You have to outscore your opponent when you only score that many points 311 in the case of the Panthers.
6:27It's not going to be good enough to win most games.
6:30Their scoring defense was much better middle of the pack 15th.
6:34They allowed 380 points. That's negative 69 points overall for the differential folks out there.
6:39But when you look at those ranks 25th tied for 21st 24 23 27 and 15.
6:44It's not going to be a great power score when you add it up.
6:49If you add it up, the raw score is 22.5.
6:52That puts them 27th overall the 27th most powerful team or the fifth least powerful team.
6:57However, you want to look at that. Well, you're short changing them a bit.
7:01They're the sixth worst team on the NFL. Bouncing off the bottom.
7:05Come on now. You can still bottom 10. So again, now we're going to talk about.
7:10So how did that all happen? Those are the overall numbers soup to nuts beginning to end for the entire season.
7:17Not great, right? As a team, there isn't there literally isn't one stat there that you would hang your hat on and
7:24say, well, you know, we didn't do this well, but at least we stopped the run, you know, 10th best in the NFL.
7:32No, all almost all those numbers are in the 20s.
7:35The only thing they did at an average rate is be a scoring defense.
7:40And they were 15th. They're right down the middle as a scoring defense, which is not a bad place to be.
7:46But if that's all you've got out of all those numbers.
7:50Yeah. Like at the top of the show, we said you've got work to do.
7:55Well, I will say to give context to the scoring defense.
7:58Yeah, it's great to be 15 in a game.
8:01I mean, for them, for them, for them, it's great.
8:04Yes. Remember, this sport is capped on the number of points you can score per possession or be scored on per possession.
8:11And so for the Panthers, who felt like they weren't super talent laden last year relative to some of their, you know, opponents.
8:19And who like very clearly on like a play by play basis were getting outmatched.
8:24Like that's what all these numbers say is on a play by play basis.
8:28You're getting outmatched. The reason why they were 15th in points allowed is because they just didn't give teams possessions.
8:35The one thing they were really, really good at was limiting the number of possessions per game.
8:40Like they were dead last or I guess in their case first in the NFL in terms of limiting possessions per game.
8:47They had 9.7 on offense. They had 9.5 against them on defense, which basically says every other game we're going to get
8:54like one extra possession compared to you. And typically for them, that was the game they were going to win, right?
9:01Was was ending up with one extra possession. But everybody's margin for error was so low against Carolina because the more possessions
9:08that are in the game, the more opportunities better teams have to pull away from them.
9:13Right. And we talked about this in the Packers episode where the Packers would just kind of like fuck around and find
9:21out, you know, they would have these super long opening drives.
9:24They would, you know, forego field goal opportunities mainly because they didn't trust their kicker, but they would not take the points.
9:31They would go for it on fourth down. They would burn an entire, you know, seven, eight minutes off the clock to get nothing.
9:39They would limit the number of drives per game.
9:42And in Green Bay's ideal world, they were such an efficient offense and they were such a good defense, mainly because Jeff Haffley's a wizard.
9:50That they would win a mud wrestling match. Right.
9:53And there was a couple of times where it came back to bite him in Green Bay, like the Browns game, because
10:00a byproduct of that is you let teams hang around.
10:03If you don't have a lot of possessions, you can't pull away.
10:07Right. And so when Green Bay would would play with fire, sometimes they got burned.
10:12The Panthers entire philosophy. Is just hanging around and being the team that lets teams play with fire so they can burn them.
10:19They were eighth in place per drive. Again, they were not efficient per play.
10:24But they they had a lot of plays. They were 12th in terms of defensive turnover rate.
10:29So they were kind of bears in that regard where, again, their defense wasn't amazing at stopping you from scoring per possession.
10:36But there was a limited number of possessions and just enough of those possessions would end up in turnovers, which is why, again, 15th in scoring defense.
10:45And in particular. In particular, they had a remarkable talent for getting turnovers in the second half.
10:51They were seventh in terms of the percentage of defensive drives that ended in a turnover in the second half.
10:57I know it's a mouthful of a stat, but it's just shit ton of second half turnovers.
11:02How about that? In particular. There were only three teams that were better than them at forcing turnovers in the third quarter.
11:10You know, in that kind of crucial you're coming out of halftime.
11:13Everybody's reset. We've adjusted like their ability to make defensive adjustments and take the ball away in the third quarter.
11:20The only three teams ahead of them were Chicago, the Seahawks and the Rams.
11:24Those are heavy hitters in the NFC. Caroline was right up there with them.
11:29And so if you have on average four and a half, five possessions total to work with in the second half, sometimes it was even less.
11:37Sometimes they only gave teams four possessions to work with in the second half.
11:42One of them is a turnover. It's already a one possession game.
11:46You're in a three point dogfight with a team that's worse than you and they get a turnover.
11:52They're starting on the 40. That's how they get you right.
11:55They drag you down in the mud and drown you.
11:58So it's it's not a great team, but they knew that and they played into that and they made you play your
12:05worst football against them because they know how to play bad football.
12:09They're the Panthers. You don't know how to play bad football.
12:13You're like the Rams or the Eagles or whatever.
12:16It's like, no, no, no. Welcome to hell, buddy.
12:19This is our world. We're going to make you play like us and we're better at it.
12:24But like if you're looking at all the macro stats, like 31st and pressure rate, 27th and scoring drive rate, 20th and time time of possession.
12:33They were 25th on third down. That's bad, by the way.
12:36It's the 33rd and average intended air yards at just 6.9.
12:40Bryce Young was behind Mac Jones in that stat.
12:43Mac Jones had like one leg. They were 22nd in yards after catch per completion.
12:47They couldn't even get explosives after the catch. They were 25th in red zone attempts per game.
12:53Like their saving grace was when they got to the red zone, they scored at the 14th highest rate.
12:59It wasn't a good team, but they were better at being a bad team than you were, which is why they won eight games.
13:07And ultimately that was enough to win the NFC South.
13:10One of the most self-aware teams in the NFL last year in terms of we're not trying to be something we're not.
13:17We've talked about it all series long, all summer long, if you will.
13:21Like, hey, don't play man if you can't play man, right?
13:25If you're the Panthers and you come out and think we're going to throw up 35.
13:30The second lowest man rate in the league. They knew they couldn't play man, so they didn't do it.
13:36And again, I applaud that approach of saying, no, we're not, you know, hyping everybody up in the locker room saying we're
13:43going to come out and score 35 this week.
13:46We're probably not. And everybody knows it. We know it.
13:49Our defense knows it. They know it. Everybody knows it.
13:53So we know this is going to be an 18 or maybe 20 point game, maybe 21 if we're lucky.
13:59But again, we're going to we're going to stay consistent.
14:02We're going to play this very, very close to our best.
14:06We are not going to overextend and give you extra opportunities because we know we'll lose if that happens.
14:12We might lose even if we don't. But if we do, it's for certain.
14:16So we're not going to do that. And that is a remarkably self-aware way.
14:21That's a remarkably honest way to play football in the NFL to just say this is where we're at right now.
14:28And in order to try and win, we have to do this.
14:32It doesn't it wouldn't work for a lot of other teams.
14:35But this is what we've got. It's very much run what you brung.
14:39You know, we know what we've got. Ours is we're right there.
14:43We're not going to try and pretend we're a supercar.
14:46We're just a very reliable. Reliable and reliable being bad sounds so so backhanded, but they just knew who they were.
14:53They played to those. And again, I'm not going to call them strengths there.
14:58They just played to that type and made it work in a very strange way.
15:03But so few teams, I think, are able to actually make that assessment.
15:07Coaches are always like, I can fix it. We can be better.
15:11You know, they're aspirational. And I think the Panthers were aspirations were very low and very realistic of like, this is who we have.
15:18This is how we play. The best chance we have to do anything here is to keep this tight, turn it into a rock fight.
15:26And maybe we get the last rock. I mean, it's they're a horror movie villain, right?
15:32Like their superpower is just persistence. Right. They're just going to be like eventually you're going to get tired and there's they're still coming with the chainsaw.
15:40You're going to sit down eventually. You got to sleep eventually.
15:44That's when they get you or maybe just a stick.
15:47I don't think they had a chainsaw. Yeah, it's a fun team.
15:51So the good news, Panthers fans. Is that a lot of their issues that made them a maybe the best bad team
15:58or the worst good team in the NFL last year, a lot of their issues they did address this offseason.
16:05They had a great, great March and April, and we will get into that on the other end of the break.
16:11Hi, alternate timeline. Brett here before we get to all the 2026 stuff.
16:16If you've liked a lot of the data that we brought up so far, we have companion infographics for every single team,
16:23including the one we're talking about today with over 15000 total data points that we have collected throughout this summer.
16:29Each team gets its own companion infographic, which is roughly about 20 pages long.
16:34It has all the data on this team you can think of, whether it's alignment data, personnel data, cap allocation, coverage data
16:41broken out by down and distance, blitz data. I mean, basically anything you can think of.
16:46We've got it. So if you want access to that, you can find that down at the link in the description below
16:53or at the QR code on the screen. Reminder, we also have bonus episodes that go live every single Friday over on Patreon, recapping every single division.
17:02We're going to pick division winners, MVPs, Rookies of the Year, all that stuff.
17:06So if you want bonus episodes plus more data that you could probably handle, that is over on the Patreon.
17:13Thank you once again to all of our patrons that have made honestly this series possible to make in the first place.
17:20We have paid the people who help us make it without your guys financial support.
17:25So thank you to our patrons. Thank you to all of our executive producers on Patreon.
17:30Their names are on screen right now. They have been O.G.
17:33supporters of us and made so much in our lives possible while we try to chase this dream.
17:39So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And with that, let's get back to the show.
17:44All right. From here on out, it's all about 2026.
17:47We're going to start off with the power structure.
17:50Year three of the Canalus regime. EJ, leave us off.
17:54So Dan Morgan, the GM, a name well known to Panthers fans and I think has a solid plan.
18:00Again, we knew that this wasn't going to be a one year process.
18:04That's not where this roster was. That's not where this organization was.
18:08And I think Dan knew that as well as anybody taking it over, that this was going to take several bites of
18:15the apple, several full seasons of the hardest effort they could put in in both free agency, the draft, UDFA, player development,
18:22everything to get them to rise up and be where they want to be, which is competing for NFC titles and eventually Super Bowls.
18:30So he didn't come into this with some rosy, rosy-eyed view of how this was all going to go.
18:36He was well aware of the scale and scope of the project.
18:40And I think he's got a really good partner in Canalus.
18:43Canalus is, I think, a very consistent coach, a very optimistic coach.
18:47But as we just mentioned, a realistic coach. And that is necessary here as well because you and I both know if
18:54you come in and have a lot of flowery statements about, oh, we're going to win it and, you know, we're here to compete for Super Bowls.
19:03And that falls flat real, real quick when you end up eight and nine for a couple of seasons.
19:09People, especially players, don't want to hear the fluff.
19:12They want to hear what your plan is to get from where you are to where you're going.
19:18And I think Canalus is one of the better communicators in the NFL for that.
19:23I'm not sure I would characterize it as fluff.
19:26I would characterize it as encouragement. Like he has, yeah, he has weaponized positivity in a way that I rarely see from
19:33NFL coaches where I'm not sure it would have been possible for them to win the division last year without his mindset
19:40of, of we're going to do this as a group.
19:43It doesn't look good. It's ugly as hell. We're going to make it work.
19:48And there's something about his personality that just gets guys to buy in when logically they shouldn't.
19:53Like you could just watch the Panthers last year, let alone be on the Panthers last year.
19:58I'm sure they felt it mid game like this isn't going well.
20:02Why are we only down by two? Yeah. Like it's that week after week after week and, and it rubs off on people.
20:10Yeah, he can hold it together though, because again, a team that doesn't buy into that or checks out worse isn't going
20:17to hold together and be able to scrape by and close games.
20:21They're not going to be there. They're going to have checked out in the third quarter and you're going to get blown out.
20:28And Canales has a, I don't want to call it unique, but a rare skill set to be able to get players
20:35to pull together in the same direction, even when it's not pretty.
20:39And maybe the odds aren't in their favor, which is most weeks if you're on the Panthers right now.
20:45So he's the right coach in a spot that needs him to be exactly what he is.
20:51And that too is rare. I think the handshake with Dan Morgan is pretty good.
20:56We're going to get a better idea of that as we go on.
21:00But so far it looks like that partnership is producing players that the Panthers can use to win.
21:06We'll know a lot more about that this year, like you said at the top in terms of they had a very good on paper season.
21:14We'll see how that translates to their on grass season.
21:17Their assistant head coach and run game coordinator is Harold Goodwin.
21:21They've had a very strong run game in terms of the runners they've had there overall.
21:26Obviously their results in 2025 were not very good, but they've had some very good performances along the way under Canales.
21:33It's certainly something they feel like they can do again.
21:36When I watched tape, I feel like the Panthers are a pretty good running team when their offensive line's healthy.
21:42Goodwin's responsible for that. Their associate head coach and offensive specialist, which is the sort of ubiquitous fixer on offense title goes to Darryl Bevel.
21:50The offensive coordinator, Brad Idzik. Defensive coordinator, Tiro Avero.
21:53He's been around the block, was originally a Fangio disciple, has been to multiple stops now.
21:59And I feel like if you stock the cupboard and that's Dan Morgan's job, Avero can get the most out of those players.
22:06He was playing without a lot in the cupboard last year.
22:10That's a polite way to put it. He has more pieces there this year.
22:14We'll see if those results improve. I would expect them to because, again, when he's had players to run his system, he's had good results in other places.
22:23I mean, he did have a few good tools to work with, like Derek Brown, obviously exceptional.
22:29Very good corner duo. When you talk about Mike Jackson, as well as JC Horn, maybe three or four teams in the
22:36NFL at most could say that they have that kind of duo.
22:40And especially with with how good they are at attacking the ball and getting it's a very turnover heavy defense or rather turnover reliant defense.
22:48So having corners like that, they can go and get me the ball is crucial.
22:52You know, Nick Scorton when he was on the field, I thought had a lot of promise to potentially be a very,
23:00very good pass rusher for this team. I was looking forward to seeing what he and Jalen Phillips could do together because
23:07they just needed one more guy to really be a, in my opinion, what could have been a very good pass rush with Scorton Phillips and Derek Brown.
23:16Okay. Hard for me to believe they're gonna be 31st in pressure rate with those three guys.
23:21Then of course, Scorton goes down, but you know, there was some stuff there last year.
23:26It's just it to me, it feels like the, the weak, the weak links in the chain were a lot weaker than the strongest ones were.
23:35And there's just only so much you could do with that.
23:38Yeah. The talent level in the NFL is so even that when you have those big gaps, when, when they have to
23:45be leveraged in a game, that's when you're going to break open the difference.
23:50And again, the Panthers entire philosophy as a team right now is to keep it close.
23:55So those were the games they lost and lost badly is when they sort of dipped in or had great pressure on
24:02an area where they didn't have a lot of talent and they weren't able to just out talent really anybody on defense.
24:09Again, some real highlights. And they've added to that.
24:12So I'm interested to see how their results look.
24:15It is a huge bummer about Scorton in terms of the injury.
24:19Interestingly enough, Prince Leun Manmielan, who didn't have as many flashes as a rookie, has looked pretty strong through camp and is
24:26starting to kind of put it together. I don't necessarily think, boy, they need a level.
24:31Right. But here's the opportunity, right? You said they needed a guy.
24:35He was not the guy last year. He had plays.
24:38But again, consistency was not his calling card coming out of college and it didn't wasn't in his rookie season in the pros either.
24:46That was really Scorton had more consistent flashes and therefore higher hopes from us.
24:51But a funny thing happened throughout OTAs in the spring and the preseason.
24:55And maybe I'm starting to put together more consistent performances and more consistent across the board, not just as a pass rusher,
25:02but also as a run fake guy, which was definitely not his strength coming out of college.
25:07So keep an eye on that one. It's a bummer we don't get to see them together because, boy, wouldn't it be
25:14a great problem to have to have both of them on the field?
25:19That's what Dan Morgan wanted when he drafted them.
25:22Very Falcons like approach of, hey, we need some pass rush.
25:25Let's go get to I think the Panthers got two of the better ones compared to the Falcons.
25:31And we only get to see one of them this year because of injury, which is kind of a bummer to round
25:38out the coaching staff, special teams coordinators, Tracy Smith, some of the position coaches, offensive line coach Joe Gilbert.
25:44Again, very solid when his guys are on the field and that cascades down into the run game.
25:50So he's doing what he needs to do. The pass game coordinator is Mike Bercovici, former quarterback himself.
25:56And again, if you're looking for former players on this staff, the wide receivers coach Rob Moore, name very familiar to Jets
26:03fans and the running backs coach Bernie Parmali. So if you're a Dolphins fan, you definitely remember Mr.
26:09Parmali as the running backs coach. Again, running backs on this team have had a lot of success.
26:14Always going to shout out their position coach. Carolina definitely fits in that strata in the NFL assistant defensive coordinator and linebackers
26:22coach Peter Hanson and the outside linebackers coach. Again, the guy that would have been coaching Scorton and is coaching and beyond and the run game specialist.
26:30Interestingly, that's a heck of a title. Oh, I'll be in a run game specialist is AC Carter.
26:36Yeah, not that's not a combo that I think I've not before.
26:40Not typically. That's why I called it out is it is interesting.
26:44And look, lots of teams have specific names for specific coaches or roles for them.
26:49But usually you don't see those two together outside linebacker, which is typically more of a pass rush specialist.
26:55I say you'll see pass rush spec or more and even then run game spec.
27:00I see run game coordinator, but I don't. But their run game coordinators, obviously Harold Goodwin, who's amazing is Harold Goodwin, but then run game specialist.
27:08So it's like, OK, yeah, or defensive run game specialist, offensive run game coordinator.
27:13But again, not something you typically see paired with what is typically a position that is more pass rush heavy.
27:19Obviously, outside linebackers need to play the run as well.
27:22But an interesting pairing and that falls on AC Carter's play.
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28:54And with that, let's get back to it. Let's get to free agency now.
28:58Dan Morgan obviously earned his money with this one.
29:01Very active free agency period. One that might end up biting them in the ass a little bit in some regard.
29:08We'll have to see. But for starters, A'shawn Robinson going to Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
29:12I think that's a good pickup for Tampa. I think he's still a quality run defender.
29:17And, you know, Tampa's run defense overall, I think it's going to be insane.
29:22And A'shawn's part of that. You got him. You got Via.
29:25You got Bain. You got their four different nickel safety hybrids that can tackle well.
29:30Bring it in. Trotter like that run defense is going to be amazing.
29:35I would have liked to keep A'shawn as part of the rotation, but it is what it is.
29:40I understand. He cost $10 million. Got to save money somewhere.
29:44They lost not one, but two centers. Cade Mays is now with the Lions for $8.3 million.
29:49Thought that was a great deal for them considering what the top of the center market is.
29:55And then Austin Corbett is now in Buffalo at about $1.5 million.
29:59They did bring in Luke Fortner. We'll get to that.
30:02But two quality players at center out the door.
30:05Kristen Roseboom, DJ Wanham, Rico Dowdle all gone. Dowdle, another one that I think, you know, some people would be like, ooh,
30:12I would have liked to keep him in the room.
30:15But now that Brooks is back and scoring his first career touchdown and we still like Chuba a lot.
30:21Maybe there just wasn't room for him in Carolina.
30:24But yeah, it's a lot of players that got a lot of snaps or played key roles for them.
30:30No longer in Carolina. Yeah. DJ Wanham is one for me that is like a Sean for you.
30:36A Sean's on my list as well in terms of, hmm, I contributed in ways that weren't necessarily flashy, but were solid.
30:43And you have to replace those snaps. Obviously Carolina did the math and the balance of how much is that worth in
30:50terms of those guys age and their contribution. And who they wanted to give those snaps to.
30:56We shall see if their replacements are up to the task or not in terms of who Dan Morgan spent the money
31:03on to keep and resign with the Panthers. Brady Christensen has a left guard.
31:07Only 30 felt like he was a little bit older to me, but JJ Jansen, the long snapper, Nick Scott, the safety
31:15played 97.9% of the snaps for this team. So they re-sign him for only $2 million.
31:20Even if he's going to be a backup, not a starter, that is a hell of a deal in the current safety market.
31:27And then one James Mitchell who just will not leave tight end.
31:31Only played 4.4% of the snaps. Player I liked coming out.
31:35They get him for 1.2. I'll highlight him. But obviously the big dollar one, Jalen Coker.
31:40This was something all the coke heads were looking forward to because he has continued to develop in Carolina and made himself into a very complete young receiver.
31:4925 years old gets 11.3 million to stay in Carolina.
31:52I think it's a very good move for them.
31:55He's got the right place in their wide receiver room.
31:58They're not asking him to do things that he can't.
32:01They're asking him to do things that he's actually really good at.
32:05So love the fit. Love the value, certainly with where the wide receiver market is.
32:10He wasn't going to get top of receiver market money, but 11 million for a young ascending player that fits in your
32:17system, I thought was money well spent. And realistically speaking, again, you have to choose between Coker and the other guys.
32:24And they felt like Coker was the least replaceable of them, which I understand because, again, they pivoted and brought in Fortner, et cetera.
32:32But if you're looking at next year's projected cap, so they're one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
32:38They have the ninth lowest projected cap going into 2027.
32:41And even right now they are bottom seven in available cap space right now.
32:46So they were kind of up against it. Money wise had to make some hard decisions.
32:51Like when I say some of these losses might bite them in the ass, it's not like they had a choice, right?
32:58It's not that they have the money, didn't spend it.
33:01It's just they didn't want to dig themselves into that kind of hole.
33:05And I get it. I respect it. But I also understand why they chose Jalen Coker is because I think Jalen Coker is pretty good.
33:13And as far as like number two, number three, whatever role you want to designate for him, just quality contributing starting receiver.
33:20I think 11 million is perfectly fair for him.
33:23That's what, 25% of the top of the receiver market.
33:27Like, I'm not saying he's got to be JSN, but if you're 25% of JSN, it's absolutely worth the money.
33:33And I think he, I think he definitely is as far as where they spent on outside free agents.
33:39Again, they were limited in what they could spend.
33:42So they had to do it wisely. The only two big money free agents they could bring in were the ones that
33:49they probably needed most, which were Devin Lloyd linebacker.
33:52If you watch their linebacker tape last year, by God, they needed him.
33:56They were eighth, eighth highest missed tackle rate against the run as a team.
34:01And a lot of that was from the linebackers.
34:04Like they struggled a lot. So bringing in Devin Lloyd, great signing for them going to be an immediate impact starter.
34:10And then Jalen Phillips, again, 31st in pressure rate.
34:13Like we talk about liking DJ Wanham as a contributor.
34:17We talk about liking Nick Scorton, you know, princely, you got Derek Brown.
34:21They were 31st pressure rate. You got to bring in somebody who can actually affect the quarterback and Jalen Phillips, I think
34:28is very, very underrated in that regard. He was actually the Eagles most effective pass rusher last year across their entire defense,
34:35as far as just getting consistent pressure. Didn't always finish the play, but just consistently affecting the quarterback.
34:41He was better than anybody there in Philly last year.
34:44So $30 million again with what the top of the edge market is right now, which is 50 with Will Anderson.
34:51I'm good with that, quite frankly. Uh, A.J. Dillon also brought in to round out the backfield.
34:56Again, you're losing Rico Dattle. You bring in A.J.
34:59Dillon. Uh, Felipe Franks at tight end brought in Darren Waller.
35:03Just popping up again. Yep. Out of nowhere. He's going to be T.E.
35:07I guess three or four for them. Uh, John Mechie still floating around the league, brought him in as well.
35:13And then Rasheed Walker and Luke Fortner, which I also brought up earlier.
35:18Uh, Fortner's going to be their starting center. Rasheed Walker at 4 million.
35:22Still not sure why. Great deal. I don't know why either.
35:25I, as a fan of a team that, you know, really could use a left tackle and Rasheed Walker has good tape.
35:32I'm not going to say great tape. I'm not going to say top of the league tape.
35:38I'm going to say functional tackle tape in the NFL.
35:41That makes him incredibly valuable. Certainly more valuable than 4 million.
35:45So I'm not sure with that. The reason I highlighted Felipe Franks is for every time you see an athletic quarterback who
35:52has no chance in the league and you go, man, that guy should convert and play tight end.
35:58Felipe Franks has done it. He's made plays throughout camp.
36:01He's going to be right on the bubble. It's going to be very tough for him to make this roster, especially with
36:08the addition of Waller, but he has been pesky in, in a good way, in a positive way.
36:14He keeps popping up and, you know, joint practice film and, and regular practice film for the, for the Panthers.
36:20He is making catches throughout camp. And so every time you've looked at that tall, fast, you know, built out quarterback that
36:27you really went, not an NFL skill set. But Felipe Franks made the change.
36:32He deserves to be applauded for that. It's a small contract.
36:35He might not end up on the 53, but a really cool story.
36:39Um, guys like Mechie and Dylan, you need those guys.
36:43They need to come in and fill roles, not be expensive, especially for this team.
36:48And those guys can both do it. Mechie had a nice catch in the preseason the other day.
36:53Uh, you know, the Carolina watchers that I know who are at practice every day are like, I don't think they should cut AJ Dillon.
37:01He's not going to be like true RB three, but he has a skill set that nobody else on this roster really
37:09has, which is you need two and a half yards.
37:12Like, Oh my God, I forgot to bring this up.
37:15Okay. So this was a top five team last year in terms of yards before contact per attempt.
37:21Their line actually was pretty good at run blocking.
37:24Mm hmm. If you're looking in short yardage, they were 10th in average yards before contact per attempt.
37:30So it's not like it was, Oh, first and 10.
37:33We're seeing cover to like we're getting good. Like, no, no, no.
37:37Even in short yardage, they were going to generating yards for contact.
37:40They were 32nd in yards after contact per attempt, at least in short yardage.
37:45They got nothing that wasn't explicitly blocked for them, which is weird because I liked their backs last year.
37:51But like in short yardage specifically, that was part of the reason they were 25th on third down.
37:57They were average on third and long. They were atrocious on third and short.
38:01And so if you're bringing in AJ Dillon, it's solely to fix that.
38:06Hey, it's third and two. Get me two. Get me two.
38:09Because nobody else on this roster apparently can. Yeah.
38:12They're looking at the depth chart. You know, again, these are beat reporters in Carolina who are looking at Chuba Hubbard, Miles
38:19Davis, who's the rookie Jonathan Brooks, who again, tremendous talent and was certainly good in short yardage when he was healthy.
38:26But the last time we saw that was almost three years ago.
38:30So counting on that is a fool's errand. If he's back, it's a great story.
38:35Tremendous talent. But they couldn't count on that. And then you got Trevor HN and then it's AJ Dillon.
38:41And so he's like RB five ish right now, but they're looking at him going, he's the only one that can do it.
38:48Don't cut him because we really, really need him to plug that particular gap.
38:53So fascinating in terms of bottom end of the roster construction, the toughest choices that you have to make.
38:59Are we going to keep four tight ends, five tight ends?
39:02Are we going to keep four running backs instead of three, three quarterbacks like all those guys, those last five or six
39:10positions that you need to really think about special teams and real role players, whether that's returners or in this case short
39:17yardage back, which isn't something that comes up a lot.
39:20But if you're a Carolina fan, probably if you're talking about it, you're going to get PTSD.
39:25So AJ Dillon might be the solution to that.
39:28One last note before we move on from free agency.
39:31So again, they re-signed JJ Jansen, who's been on this team forever, like since 2009.
39:36Which is forever in the NFL. His bacon number, meaning the number of players that you have to go through his ex-team,
39:43his ex-teammates in order to get to Eric Biennemi and Doug Peterson is one.
39:48As players? Al Harris. Yes. Al Harris. He was teammates with Al Harris.
39:52Al Harris is 51. He's a coach. They were teammates in Green Bay in 2008.
39:57Oh man. That's how long he's been playing, man.
40:00It's crazy. It's, it's amazing to me when we have players on that side of the equation, because all summer long, we've
40:07been talking about coaches who were like, they were just playing last year.
40:11They played six years. Now they're a coach. They've been a coach for three years.
40:16Like they're only out of college less than a decade, right?
40:20This is the flip side of that coin. Been playing since 2009 and one player removed from, you know, Eric Biennemi, who
40:27has been coaching a very long time at this point.
40:30Let me put it this way. Aaron Rodgers first game as a starter in Green Bay.
40:35JJ Jansen was the one long snapping for the extra points.
40:39That's how long he's been out there. Just remarkable.
40:42Yeah. Um, hopefully some of these guys in the draft play for as long as well, I don't know if I was
40:49going to say, I don't know if we want to see a 40 year old, uh, Jackson Kouach out there.
40:55Hey, come on now. No, I, I will say really talented class.
40:59He's got some of my favorite picks. Unfortunately, we won't get to see all of them because Brazell already got hurt.
41:06But if you're looking at the first. Yeah. Five in a row.
41:10I was going to say, I want to have this number.
41:13I thought. Well, yeah. Once you got to Wheatley, you're like, eh, dude.
41:17Okay. I think Zaki Wheatley at one 51 is a great pick.
41:21Like, okay. On that premise. Sure. Come on. Fifth round one 51.
41:25I think he's a better player than that. So I think the value is really good, which is why I wanted to
41:32hear that number because I, you know, I'm a huge Jackson Kouach fan.
41:36So you get down here like, you know, we'll go through it.
41:40So round one, pick 19 Monroe freely. You referenced him earlier as the very talented tackle that was available to them.
41:47A lot of folks, again, when you get to 19, 20, 21, 22 in the draft outlooks, get pretty hazy, right?
41:54There's multiple players that you want multiple needs you have as your team.
41:58But look, you're in the twenties. Essentially, a bunch of players are going to be off the board.
42:04You don't know how that's going to shape up or fall with trades.
42:08And so when they got there, when the Panthers got to 19, the conversation was, well, they don't necessarily need freely.
42:15They can certainly use him as a pick of the future, but is there somebody that they need more right now?
42:22Dan Morgan eventually settles takes Monroe Freeling, who is a developmental prospect in terms of a, massive athlete in terms of size,
42:29strength, movement skills, but had very limited tape at Georgia.
42:32It wasn't bad tape. It was just very limited tape.
42:35The overall number of snaps that Monroe freely had compared to many other tackles in this class.
42:41Certainly if you're looking at the tackle Detroit drafted, um, very different number of snaps from a feeling, but it's all about potential and top end athleticism.
42:49And he has both of those. So I think in the long term, and this is really where you can sort of
42:56see what a GM's dealing in the cards, not saying is, did you make a long-term pick or did you make the right now flashy pick?
43:05And we've seen other teams in this division make the right now flashy picks and they're in trouble.
43:11Uh, you make the long-term pick. Generally it works out better.
43:14Not always no sure things in the NFL draft, but I felt like this was a wise choice at the top for Carolina.
43:22This tackle room as a whole fascinates me because when they first made the pick, it's like, okay, well, IK Kwano towards
43:29Taylor tendon, you might miss all of 2026, you know, really awful for him last year of his rookie deal.
43:35Like, you know, that's, it was horrible timing for a quantum to Tara Patella.
43:40And it's like, all right, we got to figure out what a future answer after Moten is as well.
43:46Like it was just a perfect fit for multiple reasons, even after the Rasheed Walker signing.
43:51Cause we were thinking, all right, maybe Rasheed went, well, when they first signed Rasheed, it's like, all right, well, that's our immediate answer.
43:59It left because Icky's hurt. Let's see what they do in the draft.
44:03And you pick up a talent to tackle. It's like, all right, now we've got three guys that we think we can survive the year with.
44:11Now, suddenly they're saying like, oh, won't rule out Icky for week one.
44:15Right. To which I'm like, what do you mean?
44:18He tore his patella tendon. So now we've got Ozzy Trapillo and Icky Kwano coming off patella in less than a year.
44:25It's utterly insane. Rashawn Slater as well. Like, I don't know what the new recovery method is, but having 310 plus pound
44:33humans, three of them all potentially playing, not even week one, just in the first month of the season.
44:39Coming off patella is like a remarkable advance for medical science.
44:42I'll just say that it's incredible. So now you're looking at this tackle room and you have some combination of Sheed, Icky, Moten, Monroe Freeling.
44:50If all of them are healthy, is that not one of the deepest tackle rooms in the NFL?
44:56No, I believe it is. And it would be trade bait as well, because again, if you got an offer for a
45:03team from a team that was desperate, that loses a starter and is only maybe one and a half tackles deep, which
45:10is not uncommon in the NFL, you know, and says, look, we're we're on the precipice of what we think is a good season.
45:18We're going to we're going to go all in.
45:21We need a tackle. Carolina would be one of the first teams that I call.
45:26Well, because they very much like what they've seen for freely so far.
45:30And if they think he's just that little bit farther along or even if they wanted to start sheen, I get it left, right.
45:38You can figure it out. But, you know, hey, you want to Taylor Moten in year 10 to be your solid tackle
45:45for a team who loses a starter, you know, in the next week or two.
45:50Yeah, absolutely. Carolina would be one of my first calls with that room because very few NFL teams have four functional tackles.
45:57That is a short list. So there and they're on it.
46:00Second round pick 49 Lee Hunter, the defensive tackle for Texas Tech, one of my favorite players in the entire draft.
46:07And boy, that adds to their interior in a way that is maybe even a little bit unfair, maybe because you're putting Derek Brown.
46:15They also have Cam Jackson back there. Lee Hunter.
46:18Like if that's going to be your line. Imagine just those three on like goal line like Derek Brown, Cam Jackson and Lee Hunter goal line.
46:26Oh, yeah. Go for it. Like again, I think Lee Hunter has some real potential as a pass rusher as well, which he flashed at Texas Tech.
46:35Flashed a little bit at the senior bowl as well.
46:38There's more there. He's a very complete player right now.
46:41And any any pass rush pressure you can get out of a defensive tackle is a bonus.
46:47He's got some in there. He's got the physical ability.
46:50So we already know that he's a very good run stopper, that he's very solid in his assignments.
46:56He can two gap if you need him to.
46:59But again, adding him to that room just adds to a strength of the team for Carolina.
47:04He's just really agile for a big dude that like profiles the run stopper.
47:09But like you see him stop and turn. It's like you got some fluid hips there for a large human.
47:15So I again, I don't think he's Derek Brown, but if he can be diet Derek Brown in the second round, I absolutely adore that pick.
47:24Like just be an absolute wall against the run.
47:26Give me something as a pass rusher, something that, you know, Jalen can clean up or princely can clean up or for
47:34bringing a blitz that, you know, Lloyd can clean up.
47:37Just just give me anything as a pass rusher and 49th overall is absolutely worth it.
47:42And as you start off this draft again, first day, top of day to two first picks for the Panthers, Morgan goes trenches trenches as he should.
47:51Every good GM should just take trenches until you're forced to take something else or.
47:56Yeah. Until you feel like we need that finishing piece.
47:59Carolina is so far away from needing the finishing piece.
48:02These were both very prudent picks in terms of the players they got and also the areas that they focused on.
48:09Third round pick 83. One of your favorites, Chris Brazel wide receiver from Tennessee.
48:13Big, tall, fast. You went against type and like to Tennessee wide receiver.
48:17See what it got you? I know the second I believed in when he got hurt, but miserable would have been a
48:25nice addition in terms of adding a skill set to the team.
48:28To this wide receiver room. He's different from Jalen Coker, very much so as a player.
48:34He's different from Ted McMillan as a player. He would have added a deep threat.
48:38Could align him up in multiple places, but that was his skill set.
48:43Get down the field, catch the big ball. We're going to have to wait until next year to see that.
48:49Hopefully he heals well and quickly. But again, that's not on the Panthers, not necessarily an injury prone player in college.
48:56Just one of the things that happens that football players playing football.
49:00The fourth round at 129. Will Lee the third, the corner out of Texas A&M.
49:05This was the first pick and actually the only pick in this draft where I was like, okay, I see it, but I don't necessarily love it.
49:13And this is not anti will lead propaganda. This is at 129.
49:17Some good players available. If that's the one you want, again, your scouts see it differently than I do.
49:23I was like, all right, I was fine with it.
49:27Freeling understood. Love the potential Lee hunter. Talked about him.
49:30Love him. Brazel. I get it. You're aiming for a skill set you don't have in the wide receiver room.
49:36Not necessarily my favorite in this draft at that skill set, but I get it.
49:41I see the vision. You got to will Lee and you're like, okay.
49:45He's got good feet. And the Giro Vero loves corners of good feet.
49:49Right. Reminds him of JC. Reminds him of Mike Jackson.
49:53Like if you've got a quick transition, he's got a roster spot for you.
49:57And, and will Lee can move in short areas.
50:00He could really move is great in terms of playing, you know, off man coverage calf catch man coverage.
50:06You know, he's not a press guy, but that's fine.
50:09Like he's such a good corner when it comes to mirroring releases in space that I don't know.
50:15It's just catnip for a guy like a Giro.
50:18He's always loved corners that can play in space.
50:21And just to be clear, it's not that I don't like will leave.
50:25If I get to the hundred and 29th pick in a draft before I even go, you're doing really well.
50:32And again, Carolina just carries on in the fifth round with two picks doing really well.
50:37One 44. They get Sam heck the center out of Kansas state, really good mover.
50:42Didn't have the power. Uh, I thought he did before I dug into his tape.
50:47When I got there, the movement skills are good.
50:49His ability to get to the second level, his ability to sustain, need some work, which is why he's available in the fifth round.
50:57But a player I really like, I thought that value was great.
51:01And then again, the player we talked about earlier at one 51 also in the fifth, Zachy Wheatley, the safety from Penn
51:08state had some gaudy stats in this safety class.
51:11If you're looking at all the safeties available in this draft, I'm talking about balance safeties, box primary free safety primary, which
51:18is Zachy Wheatley is six, three, two Oh three, 325 coverage snaps.
51:22Again, a free safety primary alignment at Penn state.
51:25How many times he was targeted? 325 coverage snaps.
51:28Maybe 30, 10. Yeah. Okay. Well, it's targeted Penn state 10 times in three Penn state quarterbacks are dead before they can throw it at a safety anyway.
51:37So it's true only allowed seven receptions in those 10 targets, the average reception, 5.1 yards, like 325 coverage snaps.
51:43This is the one that absolutely kills me. And he was second in this class to Emmanuel McNeil Warren for my favorite
51:50stat for coverage players snaps in coverage per reception allowed.
51:54How many times did, was he in coverage before you got one catch on him?
51:59Just doing math. Uh, 25, 46, 44, man. You make me.
52:02Like I said, I'm not good at math, math, not mathing.
52:06But when you look at those stats, it again, Penn state, the coverage, the rush is the coverage a lot of times.
52:13So he didn't have a ton of work to do, but in 325 coverage snaps was targeted 10 times allowed 5.1 yards per reception.
52:20And it took 44 coverage snaps to get a catch on this guy.
52:25So very interesting player, really cool. Physical profile is fast in the straight line, but can turn and pivot again.
52:31If you, you're not just coming downhill as a safety.
52:34So fascinating profile. The fact that he was available in the fifth round for the Panthers, I think was a tremendous value.
52:41And then they finish off in the seventh round at two 27 with Jackson Kowatch, who I think has a chance to
52:49make a dent in this linebacker room. So a guy that originally committed to Ohio State started out there, ended up at
52:56Miami of Ohio has again, tremendous physical profile, very good size, very good height, very good size.
53:01Height, weight, speed is ridiculous. And he's a good linebacker as well.
53:05It's not just physical gifts. His instincts are there.
53:08I think that's why they, again, it's seventh round.
53:11You're just sort of saying, I want that guy.
53:14I don't want him on the free market. I don't want to have to compete with him in UDFA.
53:20We have some room here. Yes, we brought in Devin Lloyd, but when you look at the linebackers behind Devin Lloyd in
53:27the Carolina room, like that's why I say eventually, and maybe sooner rather than later, I could see Jackson Kowatch being linebacker three or four in this room.
53:36As far as UDFAs, I'm not saying it's the only one that matters, but the one that I find the most fun,
53:43obviously Haynes King, you know, Hall of Fame game hero.
53:46Haynes King. Yeah. Probably gonna make the team. Yeah.
53:49I think he should. Very gutsy sort of Swiss army knife player had more rushing touchdowns than passing touchdowns at Georgia Tech.
53:56Some people might say, oh, Georgia Tech, it's just a run primary team.
54:01Not necessarily anymore. They do pass and they do pass with more modern concepts.
54:05It's not, uh, yeah, they're only 14th in pass attempts per game compared to in their own dead last right in their own division.
54:13Um, so, but Haynes King legendarily tough player. Uh, there's a feature that was done on him last year.
54:19Go dig it up. I'm talking from like middle school to college.
54:23The stories of what he has persisted through physically as a quarterback is unreal.
54:27One of the toughest football players that I've heard of and his body's taken a price because of that.
54:33That's one of the reasons he was a UDFA.
54:36It's not because he's not a great kid. Not because he's not a great leader.
54:41He is the highest possible marks in those categories.
54:44Not because he can't throw the ball. He can.
54:47It's because, uh, man, it's not the years. It's the mileage on Haynes King.
54:51Like that body has taken an absolute beating, but a fascinating player.
54:55And we saw just a glimpse of it in the hall of fame game.
55:00Before we're getting a ceiling and floor, we always have a patron viewer note every show.
55:05Sometimes it's early in the show. Sometimes it's late in the show.
55:09Uh, this one comes from Daniel Thetford, which I think is a really good way to transition into ceiling and floor.
55:16Daniel over on the Patreon says Panthers fan here.
55:19Pump for the show. Summer series has always been great.
55:22Thank you, Daniel. Here's a question over under for the Panthers regular season.
55:26One total right now is seven and a half.
55:29Am I crazy to think this team is being under sold?
55:32The Panthers address most of their roster weaknesses by adding Jalen Phillips and Devin Lloyd in the offseason.
55:38Some of the best available talents at those positions added valuable depth through the draft at offensive line and wide receiver.
55:45Gee, it's almost like he was was in our notes as we were getting ready for the show.
55:51What's the logic on them having fewer wins this season when every player group has improved or at least stayed the same?
55:58Is it just because the division is more competitive this year?
56:02I think part of it is because the first 10 minutes of the show when we said, hey, here's everything that they were bottom eight in the league.
56:11Yeah. So there is more room to go up than you might think for an eight win team.
56:16And yes, the division I do think will be more competitive.
56:20I think the Saints will be better this year as long as the receiver stop spontaneously combusting.
56:25I think Tampa is going to bounce back this year.
56:29Um, Atlanta, they are also there. Um, but you know, if you look at the schedule, they got to play a bunch of division winners this year.
56:37So like I understand the seven and a half.
56:40But if I'm looking at ceiling and floor here, my ceiling is 10, even with a more difficult division and a harder schedule.
56:48I still think they could win 10 games because of the reasons that Daniel listed off bringing in a legitimate pass rusher
56:55drafting Lee Hunter to add to that interior rotation.
56:58Um, tackle is deep. Devin Lloyd can actually get people on the ground.
57:02Like there's a lot of room for optimism here.
57:05If Bryce Young just takes up little baby step forward.
57:08And by that, I mean, just throw the ball down the field, please.
57:12Like don't be the 33rd quarterback in the NFL as far as throwing the ball vertically.
57:17Like you have receivers, you have tackles. Please throw the ball down the field.
57:22And if the defense is just a little bit better this year, as far as more effective pass rush, like keep the turnovers.
57:29We love the turnovers, but like you need to have something beyond just we're taking the ball away from you.
57:36Like we need to be able to actually force punts, get stops, flip field position, all that kind of stuff.
57:42Like they're not that far off. They're really not that far off.
57:46And so I, I absolutely could see them winning 10 games and the division again.
57:51But that being said, if Bryce Young doesn't take that next step, if the pass rush for whatever reason still is good
57:58on paper, but not actually good on grass. If the backfield just can't break a tackle and get some yards after contact this year.
58:06You know, if the, if the defense doesn't force as many turnovers they did last year, like there's a lot of reasons
58:13why I think the floor here is actually seven, which would be under that seven and a half.
58:19And they would miss the playoffs. So again, this team is on a nice edge.
58:24I understand every argument for them being on the positive edge of that knife, but there are just as many arguments for
58:31them being on the negative side of it. All I know is it's going to be very chaotic team.
58:37Every game is going to be close because it's Carolina.
58:40So it always is. And you're really hoping that they're going to end up with just that one extra possession that they need.
58:47Seven or eight times this year to get them to that 10 win ceiling.
58:52Yeah. Yeah. I love the question from Daniel. And I think the answer that I could give most directly is you're starting at the baseline, right?
59:00You're saying, oh, they win less games. When you go back, look at how they won those games.
59:06They threaded the needle to get to eight. Mm-hmm.
59:09If threading the needle is tough to do in the NFL for all the reasons you just mentioned, especially fickle things like turnovers.
59:16And yes, they have improved the roster, but they also would need to thread the needle again in a very chaotic and difficult division.
59:24You mentioned their schedule. They're playing a bunch of division winners.
59:28So my ceiling is also 10. My floor is six because if it falls out, it could fall out very badly and fairly quickly.
59:35So it's a wider variance, right? But again, the NFL has a very wide middle where most teams could fall between 10 and six.
59:43It's not a shot at Carolina or the work Dan Morgan's done or even Dave Canalis as head coach.
59:49We like all those pieces. It's hard to win in the NFL.
59:53I think this is just a sort of acknowledgement of that for Carolina that, yeah, you're doing work.
59:59You could be better. You could also be worse, even though you've done that work because it moves every year.
60:05You need to move with it. We like the moves they've made, but it still has to show up on grass.
60:12I'll say this. So, you know, they have division games early or they have three division games in their first 10.
60:19I'll say that. So it's not a team where it's like, oh, every division game is week 12 plus.
60:25No, they have division games early, which are always tough.
60:28Five of their 10 games, like not even counting the division ones, five of their 10 games non-division are Chicago, Detroit, Philly, Denver, Baltimore.
60:36So seven and a half is about right. Yeah, you're going to earn it if you get the you're going to earn it.
60:44If you get the over Dave Canalis and Dan Morgan deserve a lot of credit, as do the players on this team
60:51for again, trying to maximize the talent for their coaching staff for their GM, because that is not an easy slate.
60:57And yes, things go up and down. Preseason projections don't look the same by the end of October.
61:03But right now, just staring at that slate on paper, that is tough sledding.
61:08There are easy outs in that five that you just mentioned.
61:11There is a nonzero chance that they have eight wins going into week 17.
61:16So the second to last week of the sea of the regular season.
61:20Right. If you're sitting at eight wins, there when our last to get to 10, maybe win the division.
61:26Fuck, it's the Seahawks. It's like you got to get to nine before the end of the calendar year with all those teams.
61:34You still got to play Minnesota and Brian Flores.
61:36You got to you got to play the Bengals all your division games other than like the last one against Atlanta.
61:43You know, the voodoo Steelers in December. That's that's tough, man.
61:47It's tough. Like, yeah, they could. They absolutely could.
61:50Everything's got to go right. Everything we talked about today that we think is like positive, like good additions.
61:56All of them have to go right. If even one of them goes wrong, they're not making the playoffs.
62:02Yeah, it's again there. You would hope as a Panthers fan.
62:06This reminds me very much of Seahawks fans like five years ago.
62:09Why can't you just be normal? Why can't you play a normal game?
62:14Right. They don't. The Panthers don't play normal games.
62:16They're playing this tight style. And if you're a Panthers fan, you would like a game that's not tight.
62:23Can we just get a lead and carry it?
62:26Hold it? Maybe wouldn't that be cool? Yeah, but I think those wishes are going to go unfulfilled.
62:31They're going to continue to have to play this gritty, grimy, tight style.
62:36Good news is they have experience. They know how to do it.
62:39This isn't new for them. Yeah, but, you know, Chrysler 300 looks like a Bentley till Bentley pulls up.
62:46And as far as winning ugly games, you got to go to Pittsburgh.
62:50They could outdo you in ugly wins. They've been doing it for like 15 years.
62:55That's right. Never argue with an idiot. We built this model.
62:58We've been doing this for decades. You knew here?
63:01Oh, well, it's going to be like you said, a chaotic season, a fascinating season.
63:06This is a team that for as, you know, middling as their results were analytically.
63:11I never didn't like watching this team again. I don't have the burden of Carolina fandom, so I don't have to have emotional investment.
63:18I can just watch them play this style and be like, that's fascinating.
63:23That's your approach to that? Okay, cool. Still a fun team to watch.
63:27And there's something to be said for that because, you know, you can be good and boring or you can be bad
63:34and exciting, but you can't be bad and boring.
63:37I don't think the Panthers have ever been boring.
63:40Ever. Like even in their bad years, like by God, they lead the league in entertainment value.
63:45I'll tell you that much. And then occasionally they're great and exciting and they go to the Super Bowl.
63:51Like every single time a good Panthers team is exciting.
63:55It's in it like it ends in February now.
63:57Doesn't always end in a Lombardi, but they'll be there, but they'll be there.
64:02So again, that might have sounded like a very negative episode overall.
64:06I promise Panthers fans. We're not trying to be negative.
64:09We are trying to be realistic. So hopefully you saw the value in realism, but we do appreciate you watching and listening
64:16wherever you happen to be watching and listening. Reminder, we are picking our division winner for the NFC South tomorrow over on our Patreon show.
64:24So we pick division winner. We pick division MVPs, offensive and defensive rookies of the year, players of the year, coach of the year, bold predictions.
64:33Everything NFC South is happening over on the Patreon tomorrow.
64:36And then next week we've got the AFC West.
64:39We've got two divisions left in the summer series.
64:42So we are 75% of the way through as of today.
64:45Thank you once again for watching and listening, and we will see you tomorrow over on the Patreon.
64:51We'll see you tomorrow. Thank you.

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