0:05>> Can we find league winning values inside of the third round of drafts in 2026?
0:11Theo Greminger, RotoWire lead fantasy football analyst, joined today by Jacob Sanderson. Jacob, we have seen some unbelievable values come out of these this round in back-to-back
0:22years. Last year, Jaxon Smith-Njigba sort of lit the fantasy football world on fire. He was an early third-round pick.
0:29>> The really the highest we ever saw him go was the two-three turn, but for most of the summer, he was living sort of in
0:35the middle of round three. And then we saw James Cook, who was going very close to JSN. Of course, James Cook had a
0:42career year last year, 1,600-plus rushing yards, and averaged nearly 18 points per game. Both of those guys were fantastic. Go back to 2024. Derrick
0:53Henry was nearly the league winner at running back in his first year in Baltimore. If it wasn't for Saquon Barkley, he probably would've been a
1:00bigger storyline that year. And we had Malik Nabers, a guy that we were both in on as a rookie target. He finished as
1:07like a top-five wide receiver coming out of round three. So, we find league winners. We also find some absolutely awful picks in this range. That's what
1:16makes it a little harder. I had your guy Mike Shope on. We broke down the second round. The second round feels a lot
1:21better than round three right now. Who are Who are players you're gravitating towards in these in the round in round three right now that you think provide
1:30potentially league-winning value?
1:33>> Yeah, first off I'll say I tend to agree with you about round three. I think it's a tricky spot.
1:38Round three, I just released my FFPC rankings this week. You can go check those out on Thinking About Thinking.
1:45And I probably had more guys that I pulled up into round three than in any of the other initial rounds. Where I was I was
1:53pretty willing to at a certain point pull guys that have round four, mid to late ADP's even, and just pull them up
2:00into round three. And if there's two guys in round four that I like better than some of these guys in round three,
2:05I'll just draft two of them. But there definitely are exceptions. There's a few guys I am making uh a major priority to grab in this
2:13round. First one's Devonta Smith. Um he is an interesting spot in my rankings where I feel like there is a pretty
2:21significant drop-off after 25. So right after the 301, and then it becomes kind of a dealer's choice. And Smith is my
2:29next player up. So I have him ranked all the way up at the 302 currently.
2:34Um I've always been a huge fan of Devonta Smith.
2:37I thought as a rookie he already showed that he could potentially elevate to that wide receiver one level in fantasy football. Unfortunately, or well
2:46fortunately for the Eagles, but unfortunately for Devonta Smith, A.J.
2:49Brown kind of gets brought in right on top of him as he's in the middle of this ascent. And for the most part he's
2:55settled in as kind of a wide receiver two, wide receiver three since that time.
2:59I don't think that it's a talent issue.
3:02Everything that I see from Devonta Smith in terms of what he can do at every single depth of the field, playing from
3:07the slot, playing from X, playing from Z, he can win as a receiver in every way that you want. I think you could design
3:12an offense around him with a 28% target share and it would be a completely fine passing game.
3:17We saw a snippet of him without A.J.
3:20Brown in 2024 for a couple of games with a competent offensive coordinator. He crushed. He was able to see 20 targets
3:28in under two games cuz he left the second one injured, had 155 yards and a touchdown in that spot, averaged 18 PPR
3:35points per game. Um so I see Smith without A.J. as having an opportunity to really stake his claim as one of the
3:42better wide receivers in the NFL. Um I think he's probably my favorite like floor and ceiling combo of kind of everyone in that next group of receivers
3:51if you want to talk about him and Pickens and Flowers and Wilson and kind of whoever else from that group.
3:58>> Yeah, so it's interesting. Like DeVonta Smith, I agree with you. He's a really, really fun click. I dropped like a dark
4:03horse league winners video, one of the first things I did here at RotoWire.
4:07Um and Smith was one of them because just simply inheriting the A.J. Brown role would be sort of enough for him to
4:15be a smash value here. And it's not a player that's like a theoretical, this guy could explode. Like we've seen him
4:21average 15 points per game twice. He's 27 years old and we hear all this like Philadelphia uh beat reporters sort of
4:28saying, "DeVonta Smith could be used like JSN if we wanted to do it." Like they all believe in the talent there.
4:34How similar do you think some of like the the the the analytical numbers will look when you look at A.J. Brown? Like A.J.
4:41Brown, you know, we've seen multiple years where regardless of the offensive coordinator, A.J. Brown is like top 10 in first read rate, if not top five.
4:50He's top 10 in target share, air yard share. Like do you think this is like a one-for-one or it's going to look kind
4:57of different when we get to the end of it?
4:59>> I think it's going to look a little different, more in deployment and style than in statistics. Um so like they're
5:06very different wide receivers.
5:08Uh I'm A.J. Brown, of course, far more physical, bigger wide receiver, typically is going to run most of his routes at the X wide receiver position.
5:16I think the biggest thing that you can say for Brown over Smith is he's just a much better yards after the catch player. Smith just
5:22at his size is not really going to be the one trucking guys in the open field and breaking off 20 yards after a slant
5:29route. But I do think at least at this point in their respective careers, Smith is probably a more precise player, um
5:36probably able to get open on a wider variety of routes. And so I'm going to put my faith in Sean Mannion that he is
5:43going to be the the quality of coach that will change up kind of how this offense has run from previous years and
5:50I think using Smith more on post routes, dig routes, in addition to some of the downfield stuff that Hurts always throws
5:57well, um get him moving laterally. I think he's going to have a lot of success. So, in terms of where the stats end up, I I
6:03think he could be a low-end wide receiver one, which is kind of what we've seen of Brown the last couple of
6:07years. Um you know, if we want to get into like a yards per route run stuff, Brown has been unbelievable throughout
6:13his career. Like he until this most recent year, I think he'd never been below 2.5. Um that's a lofty ask, you
6:21know, I don't I don't know if I would forecast Smith to be all the way at that level because I think Brown's per target
6:26efficiency with the combination of downfield ability and YAC skills at his peak was pretty unrivaled. But like I would probably project Smith somewhere
6:35in like the 2.3 uh 2.2 yards per route run range and I mean for fantasy, I I think he'll be a fringe wide receiver
6:41one if not I'm just inside the top 12.
6:45>> Yeah, and my rankings over at RotoWire, the PPR rankings are fully up. I have Smith at 27 overall. So, I think a
6:51little bit slightly higher than ADP in some formats. Do you think that that's about right, Jacob? Are you steaming him up even more?
6:58>> I mean, I'm steaming him up literally one spot more. I'm at 26. So, we're pretty darn aligned on that.
7:02>> We didn't even talk about this before the show. So, we're we're pretty locked in on Smith. Let's talk about Zay
7:07Flowers though and I had this conversation with Mike Shope um and again, Jacob and Mike Shope, you can find them over ADP chasing, ship chasing
7:15all the good stuff you guys are doing over there. I think you're drafting a main event um in about an hour and a
7:19half here. Uh Jacob, that should be pretty good. But uh Mike and I sort of talked about Zay where we in early
7:26drafting, we were drafting him all the time. Like Zay was a guy we were taking in the fourth round like clockwork. Now,
7:32he's steamed up. He's living in the third round. The vibes have been great.
7:36Declan Doyle saying nice things about Zay Flowers. Zay Flowers basically talking about Declan Doyle like he's the smartest guy in the universe. It feels
7:44like this could be a big Zay Flowers year. He ended the year on a high note.
7:48Then you get sort of people when when I'm positive about Zay Flowers, they'll come out and say, you know, I'm tired of
7:53drafting him. He never scores touchdowns. A lot of the the a lot of the scoring was back loaded last year.
8:00He feels like a capped upside guy. I don't know why you're pushing him, Theo.
8:03What do you say to that? Do you think it's sort of a our preconceived notions of Zay Flowers could be really wrong
8:10this year in a new scheme and maybe with a new coordinator that's a little more open-minded to the passing game.
8:16>> Yeah, I I've been in on Zay Flowers. I I also preferred when he went in the fourth round, but I have him ranked
8:22currently I have him ranked right at 30.
8:24So I would still take him happily in the middle of the third.
8:27Um Zay Flowers from a pure talent perspective I I was higher on by a lot as a rookie prospect than than I think the market
8:36was generally. Um and then he came out as that in the first year and immediately asserted himself as the number one pass catcher on the team, ran
8:43a ton of routes. Although his efficiency has really increased each of the last two years. He went from 1.72 yards per
8:50route run to 2.25 as a sophomore and last year a ridiculously elite 2.53.
8:56Right? That's what we're talking about the type of numbers that AJ Brown was always putting up and why he's been held
9:00in in such justifiable reverence.
9:03The reason why I think people don't view it as as much of a linear progression is that the routes, unfortunately, have
9:10declined despite him in in him getting much better. So he went from 588 as a rookie, then down to 470 and 479. And
9:18it's not like he's, you know, not running a full route share um because the team is limiting him.
9:23He's out there whenever the Ravens are passing. They just haven't had as high of a pass rate in the last couple
9:29seasons. And if you look throughout the Ravens history under Lamar Jackson, it's more volatile than you might think. Like their base expectation is to be a run
9:38heavier team, but we saw in 2023 like I mentioned the first Zay Flowers season, there was a big spike. I I forget
9:46exactly what year it was, but there was the one season where their defense was atrocious and I think it was like 2020
9:53or 2021, but there was another year where their pass rate spiked massively.
9:58Um, I think it was 20 21 cuz I think it was Bateman's rookie season. So any anyways, my point is we've seen multiple years where they've
10:05had over 600 drawbacks. It's not completely out of the question. Um, you bring in a new offensive coordinator, I think that they might be a little bit
10:12more balanced. And then probably the biggest question mark with Zay is like the reason why he keeps underperforming his peripherals is in
10:19part routes um, and in a large part it's just touchdowns. He is just not gotten the end zone targets and I I get that he
10:25is small, you know, you're probably never going to see him turn into Julio Jones or Calvin Johnson or anything anytime soon, but it's really an outlier
10:35amongst even similarly sized, you know, good wide receivers that this guy is just not featured in the game plan at the goal line. I I have to think that
10:43with a new offensive coordinator, we might see some different looks because he is just very clearly their best weapon and like Todd Monken ran a much
10:51more heavy personnel offense. Um, they were typically utilizing the tight ends a ton in tight and I'm sure they will still use Andrews to some extent, but
10:59like with Likely gone, with Andrews, I think pretty close to washed. Um, I think that there's a pretty massive opportunity for Flowers to even just
11:08improve to get like seven or eight touchdowns. Like if he just scores an average number of touchdowns for the amount of targets he occurs, that's
11:14going to be a huge impact plus potentially more routes. So I I think it's a it's a player that's being priced
11:20to be a a fine enough pick if he's who he's been in the last while, but if the routes and the touchdowns come up,
11:26that's where you start to get into like oh, this guy's performing like a round one two type of player.
11:30>> Yeah, and you still get the occasional fourth round exposure. He's sort of going at the end of the third round. So,
11:36I think it's a nice consolation prize.
11:37You're getting this this higher upside type click. Um and I think that like you brought up the touchdowns, I think he's
11:44got a lot of outs there. You brought up the drop backs and just in the terms of like the sheer pass attempts,
11:50Baltimore's been like 32nd or 31st in all these seasons. If Declan Doyle can just get them to like be 20th, 22nd, I
11:58think Zay Flowers is the big beneficiary. And then we sort of have the Mark Andrews corollary where I think people are settling in on Mark Andrews
12:06is this strong uh you know, value at tight end. He's got this clear role. If we see any sort of age-based uh regression from Mark
12:15Andrews this year, I think Zay Flowers should benefit. And the fact that we're hearing about like Rashod Bateman might be more productive than guys like Elijah
12:23Serrat, I think kind of speaks volumes to just how limited his teammate competition is at the wide receiver position. So, Flowers really being like
12:33the focal point of this passing game is almost a given. It's just how good can this passing game be? We've seen Lamar
12:39Jackson have very high touchdown pass total seasons in the past. If he returns to that sort of form, I think Flowers
12:45getting that eight touchdown grab season like you're talking about could be there with career highs in catches, career highs in targets. So, I think
12:52structurally he makes a ton of sense.
12:54Let's talk about a wide receiver going ahead of them and really one of the more polarizing polarizing guys this off season, Rashee Rice, where he's living
13:03in the third round now. We see Kenneth Walker enthusiasm. The offense could look different. Uh you hear people still open-minded to drafting Rashee Rice. Not
13:13hearing a whole lot of the league winner type arguments. Do you view him as a structural pick? A pick you're looking
13:20to avoid? Or a player that you're sort of struggling with?
13:24>> So, I I if he falls, I'll take him. I have him ranked at 28, which is right behind Devonta Smith and George Pickens.
13:31I think it's slightly behind ADP.
13:34Um I have a really hard time with Rice. If I'm going to draft him somewhere, it would be on FFPC because I think that
13:40the full PPR obviously makes a huge difference for him, probably more for him than almost any wide receiver compared to the half PPR scoring
13:47settings.
13:48Um I've I was more optimistic on Rice last year. And the reason is prior to last year, he'd always been really efficient. The role had been
13:58super weird, but within that role, he'd always been very efficient in it. And they didn't really have any other op- options that I believed in in terms of
14:08engines to run their passing game through. And so I thought that they would probably just try whenever Rice was on the field to run their offense
14:15through him in the short areas. And that is what they did last year. He was he was super productive once again.
14:20The big difference is is just that the the efficiency despite the volume in the fantasy production really took a nose dive last year. Not super surprising
14:28with a limited player. And the overall effect of this of their offense when it was being run through Rice, I thought it
14:33was just not it. Like towards the end of the year especially, felt like teams really locked in to what they wanted to
14:39do. They weren't just giving him those free 8-yard drag routes off the line whenever he wanted. They didn't feel threatened deep by anyone in the offense
14:46at all. So they could just sit on Rice's production.
14:49And I just think that if the Chiefs want to have a successful explosive offense this year, they need to seriously reduce
14:57their reliance on him.
14:59He'll obviously have a role. He's he's legitimately good in a role, but is it a good strategy for an NFL offense to run
15:0728-30% of their targets through Rashee Rice running 6-yard routes? Like I I just don't think so. And I have a really
15:13hard time making a big fantasy bet on a team kind of acting in my opinion against their interests because I just feel like that's not a
15:23sustainable way to to play winning football. The other side of the coin is I don't know what is. I just don't
15:28really have a lot of belief in this Chiefs passing game. I think Xavier Worthy is interesting coming off of the shoulder injury that maybe we see a
15:36better version of him than what we saw last year by a long shot.
15:41But I do think he's always been a pretty limited player due to his size and some of the ball tracking issues
15:48and I think Kelsey at this point highly limited player and and I think Rice is a limited player. So maybe they just decide well, Rice is the
15:56best thing we got and he's able to keep kind of PPR spamming his way to borderline wide receiver one production. It's totally
16:03possible, but he just makes me very nervous because I feel like compared to every other wide receiver that he's going around. I just don't think he's
16:10good of a player as most of these guys and so trying to balance between okay, what is the talent case in a
16:17vacuum versus what is the fantasy utility of this player? It's it's challenging.
16:21>> Yeah, I'm with you and I feel like I'm not going to get burned this year by Rashee Rice and and I think there's been
16:26seasons where Rice was priced correctly to really like crush it in ADP. We saw last year sort of the suspension discount where you got him and he was
16:36giving you that wide receiver one production like right out of the gate.
16:39This year you're sort of paying about where I think he's going to finish and a lot of that PPR scam stuff I think is
16:46going to not disappear, but it's going to it's going to be reduced with a lot more Kenneth Walker. Rice was almost
16:54like an extension of the run game failures where now I think they're going to have a successful run game and I
17:00think they're really going to try to build their offense around Walker. So if I'm looking for an early Chief there's a lot of guys I like in round
17:07two, but I think Walker would be the one I'd if I had to give a bunch of exposure to like one Chief or another, I'd rather
17:14have Walker than take Rice in the third round when there's other wide receivers.
17:18So, I think we're sort of in lockstep there.
17:20>> Yeah, I agree on Walker. Like if it I I expressed a lot of bearishness with the Chiefs offense. The one thing I'm
17:25bullish on is Walker. I To me, if I were in charge of the Chiefs, and I mean, thank god I'm not cuz Andy Reid's a lot
17:32more qualified than than I am. But like, I would be try to lean into the run game because this is the first time they have
17:38a real threat at running back. I I think that they have to find some sort of way to get them advantageous looks in the
17:44passing game because I just don't think that their pass game weapons are enough to to hold up against difficult looks. So, I would
17:51run a lot more and and do it with Walker and try to make create explosives in the run game. And then maybe you you get a
17:59better personnel groupings onto the field that you can throw against more easily, either Worthy down the field or, you know, maybe they're not able to just
18:06sit on those short zones for Rice. But I I agree. I think Walker's the way that I'm playing this Chiefs team.
18:11>> So, one of the other reasons that I I don't feel like I need to take any Rashee Rices. You talked about some wide
18:16receivers that I like. I also really like Chris Olave. Olave's living in round three, coming off of a career year. It was Kellen Moore's first season
18:27as head coach in New Orleans. We had Tyler Shuck take over. The Tyler Shuck-Chris Olave splits were very promising. And the overall counting
18:35numbers for Olave, 16.8 points per game, 156 targets, 100 catches, 1,163 receiving yards. Really a career year.
18:44And what But what's interesting about Olave is we saw him in this ADP back in 2024. He 2024 he was going at the 2-3
18:52turn, even more expensive than he is now. And he was a disaster pick. Ended up playing eight games. The concussion fears, all that stuff. Then last year
19:00he's a seventh-round pick, like a huge overcorrection. Kellen Moore's like, "We're going to feature Chris Olave.
19:06We're going to feature Chris Olave."
19:07Told us all off season long. He still goes in round seven and is like a huge win rate guy for that range of the
19:13draft. Now we're back to paying a premium price tag for Chris Olave, but I still like drafting him there, Jacob. I
19:20feel like that offense is one of the ones that we're betting on to break out.
19:24Even if Jordan Addison is really good, even if Travis Etienne has a predictable volume-based role, this offense is going to be catered
19:32towards Olave, and we have a history of wide receiver success with Kellen Moore.
19:37Am I too optimistic about this player?
19:40Is he a a purgatory pick in this range, or do you have sort of apprehension about him paying a premium price tag
19:46after it burned us 2 years ago?
19:49>> Yeah, I I'm probably a little below on Olave. I mean, he's a very good player.
19:54There's no question about that. Um I don't really know how to factor in the concussion stuff. It's not been a a
19:58major part of my ranking on him, just cuz it's kind of unpredictable to me. I I guess you can kind of bake in some
20:05abstract level of risk. I was massively in on Olave last year. Like I I just felt like he was a guy that was clearly
20:12way more talented than he was being priced in.
20:15I I feel like we have a tendency with this group of receivers that goes late round two to early to mid round five to just kind of
20:24price up whoever hit their 90th percentile outcome the year before. Um and I think Olave is the guy that is kind of getting the benefit of that now.
20:32And like you look at just pure talent, like yeah, I think he's fantastic. I I don't know that he is meaningfully better of a
20:39talent than Devonta Smith, Zay Flowers, Jaylen Waddle, uh Tutu Atwell, you know, um you you know, and maybe that's a blasphemous thing to say last year cuz
20:50of the results, but like you can go and find tweets from me last year being like Chris Olave is the most talented wide
20:57receiver going anywhere within two rounds of him when he was going in the sixth, and people thought that was ridiculous because he had just been
21:04hurt. People have a lot of recency bias into this thing and I think keeping in mind a long view and and looking at
21:11these profiles overall, it's like no, these are pretty similar guys. And Olave is the one who just got, in my opinion,
21:18the best wide receiver in the NFL draft to come in right alongside of him. And Jordan Addison his best attribute is just his ability
21:28to draw volume. Everywhere he goes, he earns a ton of targets. He has a career targets per route run in college over
21:3330%. So, you know, if if I'm looking at like Olave versus Flowers, I'm like, well, I think they're similar talents and and maybe Olave was getting run of
21:42you a few more routes. But like Flowers is probably way more of the clear number one in his offense than Olave is in his.
21:50I would say the same thing about Jaylen Waddle. I think Jaylen Waddle probably runs even more routes than Olave with how much Denver passes. And
21:57I have, you know, a lot more optimism for Jordan Addison as a talent-based upside bet than I do for Courtland Sutton. So, like I look at that team,
22:04I'm like, I would rather bet on Waddle as a number one who I think is equivalently talented. And you know, you
22:09go so on and so on throughout a lot of these names. And I just feel like Olave is getting a little bit boosted because
22:15of the result last year. So, a guy I've been in on for much of his career, probably not so much this season.
22:21>> Yeah, you make a good point. I think this that for me, I'll I'll be more bullish on him than you are. But the
22:26scariest thing that you said to me is Jordan Addison where you go from like Chris Olave having guys like Devonta Smith next to him last year after Rashid
22:35Shaheed was traded to now you have Jordan Addison. And you've seen the Jordan Addison sort of CeeDee Lamb comps out there. How fast track can he be in
22:45this offense? Could it be a second half of the year Jordan Addison's production is similar to Chris Olave? I think if
22:53anything, it sort of caps the upside.
22:55But I do believe in the offense. I do believe in in Olave's role at least for the start. It's more of like, what does
23:00the second half of the year look like but Jordan Addison very very very good player for sure and you're mixing in some Addison I
23:07imagine in your builds Jacob.
23:09>> Definitely definitely. I mean it's it's a tough one because uh this is like people are going to turn off the episode
23:16when they hear this but one of my big stands this year is is Marvin Harrison and I've never been on Marvin Harrison
23:23before but like hey you know you know what I just talked about like with Chris Olave where it's like I think
23:27sometimes we overreact a little bit on talent and I and I think this is now a guy that is being pushed down I feel like I'm
23:33getting a discount on so I've been Marv over Addison um but when if I can get Addison uh in some spots I definitely want to
23:42cuz I I love the prospect profile on him.
23:45>> Yeah agreed the Marvin Harrison discussion I know uh you know I my former colleague Ryan Heath is also open-minded drafting
23:51Marvin Harrison. I'm sure he's a guy that I'm going to cover when I break down I mean Jacob you guys are doing
23:56your best to get him into round six we called him round seven Marv occasional round six Marv I'll break it down those
24:02rounds I've tried to hit all these rounds.
24:04>> have him ranked right at the right at 60 so I have technically have him ranked in the fifth.
24:08>> There you go and if you're an NFFC drafter you're sort of seeing Marvin Harrison in that range in a wide
24:13receiver heavy format FFPC drafter a little bit easier easier player name to click on so it's a fade of of Michael Wilson and an embrace
24:22of Marvin Harrison Jr.
24:24>> It's like it's it's a it's a fade on Michael Wilson I mean it is I'm not drafting Michael Wilson but I'm not like I'm not going out of my
24:34way to like hate on Michael Wilson it's it's it's more just about feeling like the price is right to get in on a player that I still think has a
24:44ton of talent upside that's that's no longer being super priced in like I was not in on Marv last year because I felt
24:50like his rookie year was pretty deeply underwhelming and everyone was drafting him as though it wasn't. And I don't view him that differently than I viewed
24:58him last year, but the market is now I think pretty severely punished him.
25:02Um and maybe they're right to. I I mean, he hasn't shown what we wanted him to show as a prospect at all. That's totally
25:08fair. But we have seen some of these brawling outside wide receivers, they just seem to take a little bit longer to
25:16reach their apex for me. Like we saw Pickens break out a bit in year three, fully in year four. We saw Nico Collins
25:21break out fully in year three. I think with a new scheme a couple of years older, Marvin Harrison, we probably see the best out
25:29of him. So I've been optimistic, but I know he's he's an uncomfortable player to make a case for because he's he's
25:35enraged a lot of people with his production over the last couple of years.
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27:34Yeah, maybe it's a every year there's an Ohio State wide receiver that crushes their ADP. 2024, Terry McLaurin.
27:412025, Chris Olave. And I mean, JSN had already caught 100 passes, so he's not exactly on the Marv trajectory, but did
27:49certainly go nuts. So, maybe that's a trend and we see Marvin Harrison Jr. and like Carnell Tate crush it and and Ohio
27:55State continues to print. Um, that's for another show though. Let's continue the wide receiver discussion and we have to talk about George Pickens cuz we haven't
28:02talked really about him in detail yet.
28:04We're seeing people sort of settle in on the the bull case for CeeDee Lamb. And I get it. CeeDee Lamb's phenomenal. But
28:12George Pickens is sitting there inside of round three. Uh, he was tremendous last year and it wasn't just the overall counting stats. A lot of the analytics,
28:20I mean, he was super, super efficient. I think he was third in in red zone targets overall. Uh, he was top 10 in
28:27first downs per route run and then just went nuts on the overall counting stats.
28:31Had 17+ points per game. He was a top five wide receiver. Uh, career highs in everything. 137 targets, 93 catches and
28:40over 1,400 receiving yards. Now he's in round three. Jacob, he's young. Like what what's stopping me from drafting George Pickens in every single third
28:49round? 25-year-old George Pickens.
28:52Um Or is it a healthy CeeDee Lamb, things are going to look a little different. This is a regression candidate.
28:59>> Um maybe I'm a little bit in between. I don't have super strong thoughts on George Pickens against ADP. I'm at 27. I
29:06don't know I don't know exactly where his ADP is. I think it's probably right around >> About in line. About in line, yeah.
29:10>> Yeah. So, I'm okay with George Pickens.
29:14I'll I'll say last year, again, this kind of the theme of the last 10 minutes of of me talking about kind of having a
29:19different stance on a lot of these guys this year than I did last year.
29:22>> [snorts] >> Last year, he was like the number one guy that I talked about on almost every show that I went on because it was I
29:29thought the easiest and most straightforward case of like, here's a guy that in the peripheral data has shown that he's already broken out. But
29:36people aren't woke to that because he hasn't been able to run enough routes because he's been stuck in this Arthur Smith hellhole in in Pittsburgh. In that
29:45third year where he really looked a lot better on on a per route basis than he did his first 2 years.
29:51And then, I was projecting to run like a hundred more routes on the Dallas Cowboys and he did and and he ends up
29:56paying off massively. Um probably even more than I could have predicted, especially because CeeDee Lamb missed time and I don't think was like 100% the
30:04same when he came back.
30:06Going into this year, um it's hard for me to get super pumped about Pickens. I feel like have Haven't we seen with these number two receivers
30:15in in these very good offenses where one season kind of everything will go their way and then they got pushed up
30:22to the two-three turn and then they they usually have tended to not perform very well at that price and then, you know,
30:28they they get pushed back down to the fourth and eventually everything aligns again and they they go off.
30:34You know, last year, if you wanted to make the case for Pickens, like an easy thing that people said and I said was like, what's really
30:41difference between George Pickens' profile and Tee Higgins' profile?" And Pickens at the time was going like two full rounds later. And now, I would once
30:50again ask people, "What's the big difference between George Pickens' profile and Tee Higgins' profile?" But now it's Tee Higgins that's going around after. So, um I I
30:58haven't made Pickens a major priority in drafts, but I'm certainly not completely fading him. I I think he's an absolutely outstanding receiver. I think that the
31:06talent gap between him and and Lamb is probably closer um than the talent gap between Higgins and Chase. And so, if
31:14you want to bet on a a fun offense, on a player that I think is amazing, uh totally reasonable in the early third. I
31:20I like Smith slightly more than him. I have Pickens right between him and Rashee Rice. Uh I I would bet that I
31:26probably wind up with like a share or two of Pickens in my main event portfolio.
31:32>> I think that's fair. And I think like George Pickens, I think you could you could say he's going off the board as
31:37like wide receiver 12, sort of like a low-end wide receiver one. Does he finish in that range? He probably finishes pretty similar. We saw the
31:45contingent upside when CeeDee Lamb missed time. We saw the spike week ability. I I I'll take sort of a bull case, but I don't think he's a player
31:53you need to reach for. You're going to get access to him sometimes at the end of the third round. He's not a guy I
31:58think you need to pull uh up into the second round this year. Um but we know he's super talented. And like you said,
32:05I think one way to sort of avoid landmines in this range is do we think the offense is going to score a ton of
32:11points? I think Dallas could print this year. Uh if everybody stays healthy, this could be a really fun offense for us to just take shots on. And they're
32:20sort of all priced pretty correctly. Uh so, really interesting one. If you want to get started in and get ready for your
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33:01get ready for your redraft leagues and make a ton of money in bestball. Jacob, let's get back at it. Let's talk about
33:08some of these running backs as well. I think we you know, there's really one more wide receiver I want to get your
33:12opinion of which is a player that occasionally falls into round four, but we see him in round three. Garrett Wilson. The Jets offense, hey, I'm on
33:20Long Island. We're a little bit optimistic this year on the Jets. I mean, I'm into Breece Hall. We'll talk about him in a minute. But Garrett
33:27Wilson just sort of sitting there. We've seen him drafted more highly than this in years past. And he's sort of in a
33:33range where structurally he makes some sense. Does he provide edge to you in terms of upside in this range though?
33:41>> Yeah, I like Garrett Wilson. I I think that the the case for him largely is just the talent-based case. And I think it's fair
33:50to question how much of the efficiency issues that he's had have been on him.
33:55Basically since he's come into the NFL, he's been one of the best target earners in the league.
33:59But the yards per target has always been a little bit iffy. And I think it is kind of into the eye of the beholder to
34:05decide how much blame for that goes to the quarterback play that he's suffered through for most of his career versus potentially some of the issues being on
34:13him. It probably is a little bit more on him that maybe I gave it credit for early on in his career. But regardless,
34:21I think it's undisputable whether you prefer just looking at how many targets he earns or whether you prefer qualitative metrics like an open score or reception
34:31perception or if you just want to watch him yourself, that this is one of the guys who can get open easier than almost
34:37any wide receiver on Earth. Um and so I think pretty much no matter what, he's a guy that's going to walk
34:42into a massive target share. I think that's going to be the case even this year on the Jets where they've added a few more interesting weapons. Um
34:50they have Denzel Mims coming back for a second year. They they drafted two first-rounders in Kenny Stills and Omar Cooper.
34:56My hope is that this just makes the offense more functional.
34:59Um I I have been optimistic on this Jets offense compared to the market. Like it's kind of a frustrating um thing for
35:09me to say cuz I feel like I've also been more optimistic on than the market on previous Jets offenses that obviously
35:14turned out terrible.
35:16But I think that their skill group is really good. Um and I mean if if it turns out that's not the case, then
35:22that's probably even better for Wilson.
35:24I think that their offensive line has upside. They have two really young tackles, Mekhi Becton going into year two, George Fant going into year three.
35:30The interior is a little sketchy, but I think that they could be at least an average offensive line.
35:36And I guess I'm a little bit more of a Geno optimist than the market. I was definitely a big Geno fan when he was in
35:42Seattle. He obviously played very poorly last year. Um maybe he's completely cooked. I tend to give almost every individual member of the Raiders uh
35:53quarterback and skill group like at least a 50% pass for the disaster class that was last year with that offensive line being just such a complete sieve
36:02and Chip Kelly and whatever they were doing. Um You know, Chip Kelly there were stories of him calling plays that weren't even
36:08on the play sheet and they had to figure out what they were doing in the huddle.
36:11So, I think if you protect Geno, he can give you serviceable quarterback play.
36:15The The nice thing about him too is is that he's going to never have like the type of combined sack and scramble rate that
36:24Justin Fields had. So, you're not going to be burning as many empty routes. You also probably see a much more balanced
36:29offense between run and pass than what they were last year. So, I think that the macro level environments will have stronger for Wilson. And you're getting
36:36again a much cheaper price on him than we've basically ever gotten since his rookie year. Because I think people are just tired of things going wrong for
36:44him.
36:45You also look at his year last year, set career highs in in targets per route run, was more efficient than he'd been
36:52for most of his career as well.
36:55You know, he ends up getting hurt, but like maybe we were in the middle of him leveling up as a player last year. I
37:00don't think that that's off the table.
37:01So, I'm very optimistic about Garrett Wilson. I have him ranked right now at 33.
37:08And it's it's a difficult part for me to draft cuz there's kind of three guys in Jaylen Waddle, Garrett Wilson, and
37:17Tutu Atwell McMillan, each of whom I would like to be overweight on.
37:21And and often it's a choice that you have to make. You you might only be able to get one of those guys.
37:25You know, maybe one of them comes back to you if you're if you're drafting like on the 3-4 turn or something. But,
37:31Wilson right now I have him slotted right behind Waddle, but I have him ahead of McMillan.
37:37And and I think that's probably where I'm going to land. I definitely want to have shares of him in my portfolio. I've
37:41always been a massive fan of him as a player.
37:44>> Yeah, and if you look back at last year, he was tracking towards being an unbelievable pick. If we look at like
37:50the very beginning of the year, it was wide receiver one weekly finishes in four out of his first five weeks. And he
37:56scored 19 points in all of those wide receiver one finishes.
38:01And then Sauce Gardner Island where he gets banged up in that Denver game, and then he plays one more game the rest of
38:06the year. So, it's really like uh I think you nailed it where people are just kind of tired of taking Garrett
38:13Wilson, but now he's priced in that fourth round where we look at post rookie year, he was going at like the
38:181-2 turn in some of those high stakes drafts. So, really an interesting player. I think structurally makes a lot of sense, especially in round four. But,
38:25like you said, there's a lot of really interesting wide receiver values when we look at like wide receiver 15 through 24
38:32right now. So, you don't have to go Wilson, but I don't think he's going to hurt you this year. Let's talk running
38:37backs. And And a lot of times when we find these landmines in this range, this is sort of the traditional dead zone.
38:45There's going to be some running back failures in this range. It happens pretty much every year. Let's talk about at the very top, the big dog, Derrick
38:52Henry, who usually is going in round two. When he falls in round three, are you interested in mixing in some exposure to to Henry? Again, turning 33
39:02years old, but ended the season last year delivering absolute spike weeks, was a league winner in the fantasy playoffs.
39:09>> Yeah, so Derrick Henry, he goes in a very tight range where I mean, I've not done as many of these
39:16as you have. I think I've done four drafts so far. But, it feels like that end round to early round three corner,
39:25feels like it's almost the same guys every time where a lot of people seem to have kind of an exact ranking. So,
39:30Derrick Henry, I think that the big question for me with him has been, okay, you know, do I How do I value him versus
39:37Jeremiah Love?
39:39Because I have those guys right now straddling the two-three turn.
39:43A past me would probably just want to go with Love. I don't know. Maybe I've I've grown older or I don't know if I've grown
39:50wiser. I guess I've I've grown slightly more more of an FFPC boomer over time because I I wound up ranking Henry just ahead.
40:00He's a pretty scary profile to bet on going into his age range. But, at this point in time, like I kind of just
40:08almost believe that he's going to be a very, very good rusher until he, I don't know, his body breaks down or he calls it quits. I'm not
40:17really sure. So, you also have the massive massive sprint upside like you mentioned where if especially in the FFPC format where
40:26it's a cumulative sprint and you don't have to redo it every single week, if he goes off for 42 in week 15,
40:32even if he gets you 12 and 13 the next 2 weeks, like you really want Derrick Henry to be a part of your lineup
40:38because you're going to carry that score through and we know he has one of the highest ceilings of any running back in
40:43the entire sport. So, I've been a pretty neutral position on Derrick Henry. I haven't drafted him yet. I've only done a few teams, but
40:49like if if I have a team at the 101 or the 102 and he's there, I'll strongly consider Derrick Henry.
40:56I think he's pretty reasonably priced this year.
40:59>> Yeah, I'm with you. It's and and you talk about structure where you can get a Puka Nacua Ja'Marr Chase team and
41:05potentially get that predictable volume with Derrick Henry.
41:09And we've seen it year in year out where he starts gaining speed and gaining production when it gets colder. Scott Barrett had a great you know, post on
41:19this where it was like October Derrick Henry looks better than September, November looks better and then last year we saw him go absolutely nuts. It's
41:28not AJ flex has to go out the window with Derrick Henry. He just continues to destroy drafters where the only reason
41:36he's even available in this range now is because he's 33. There's literally no one that's average more than 15 points per game at 33 years old at the running
41:43back position like in NFL history. If you're trying to find historical comps, it's like one guy and that's it. So, Derrick Henry I think could fall in the
41:52end zone a bunch of times. He could run for a bunch of bunch of yards and I don't think he'll burn you in this
41:57range. Is there other guys that I think have more upside because they're younger and and maybe a little bit have a little
42:03bit more potential to catch passes.
42:04Sure, but Henry structurally if you need to get a running back there, I think he makes some sense. Let's talk about
42:09Jeremaih Love though cuz I think >> Yeah.
42:12>> drafters are playing it super scared, and Jeremiah Love was the third overall pick. He is an elite talent. I had Matt
42:20Waldman on the other day, and Matt is comparing him to like potentially having peak Alvin Kamara type outcomes, like that kind of fantasy ceiling. And I'm
42:29seeing that as well. The The receiving upside that he possesses is great. He's got the explosive big play ability that we've associated with guys like Jahmyr
42:39Gibbs and James Cook.
42:41>> Um >> And now there's people pushing him down where he's almost out of the cutline here. You're getting him at the end of
42:48the third round, and the reason I I'm kind of pounding the table for him is I'm starting to see him go in round
42:53four, where it becomes like an auto pick for me if I see him in round four.
42:57>> We've seen round four Love in NFFC 350s, where the NFFC drafters are fading him even more.
43:04>> Yes, like you were saying NFFC's three wide receivers, non-tight end premium FFPC two and two.
43:09I This makes me want to go and draft on NFFC like right now, because this has been one of the things that's
43:15bothered me the most is I have Love right now ranked right at his FFPC ADP of 25. And he's gone, I think pretty
43:23much at literally 25 in each of the first three FFPC drafts that I've done.
43:27And I think that it it makes sense to me because that to me is right at the cutoff, like there's a I really want to be in on
43:34Jeremiah Love. I think we're getting a pretty crazy discount for the number three overall pick. I'm not really that worried about Tyler Allgeier or James
43:40Conner, because I think the pathway to upside for Love comes through the passing game, and those [snorts] guys aren't threats there. So, I think he can
43:47still rack up a ton of fantasy volume even if he's losing some carries between the 20s to Tyler Allgeier and such.
43:54And like I'll I'm just going to put myself on the side of not being that worried if Tyler Allgeier was taking
44:00like uh goal line carries. Because one, they're not going to have any goal line carries, so that's fine. Um two, I I
44:08just think that the Cardinals are going to clearly feel the need to justify spending a third overall pick on this guy. Everyone made fun of them on draft
44:14night. They bullied them relentlessly.
44:16Like, if you're the Cardinals, wouldn't you want to give the goal line carries to the guy that you need to justify that you just gave the largest
44:23ever guaranteed money to a running back to instead of giving them to Tyler Allgeier? I mean I mean maybe that doesn't factor into it. I think it
44:30factors into it a little bit. Um, and then the only issue I've had with Love is as much as I want to be in on him, the
44:38players going directly above him I do have a really hard time drafting him over. It's it's Chase Brown, it's Derrick Henry, it's AJ Brown, it's Nico
44:44Collins.
44:46I I I like all of those guys, too, and I do find it a little bit tricky to project Love ahead of that group. I find
44:52it very easy to project him ahead of everyone he goes behind. Like, if this were an auction format, I'd probably be
44:57in on him more. Hearing that he's going apparently late three, early four in NFFC makes you want to go make a deposit
45:03and get in there because I would love to just stack up as many Jeremiah Love teams as I could towards the middle or
45:09late third round. I would make that a massive stand because I think he is a a There is a cliff at running back to me
45:16right after him.
45:18>> Yeah, and a shout out to Darren Armani Fantasy Mojo for FFPC Main Events. And again, FFPC, you're talking about like
45:25the difference between NFFC, FFPC, it's not only the tight end premium, but it's the the structure of the lineups where NFFC you start three wide receivers with
45:35one flex. FFPC, it's two flexes, two wide receivers.
45:39Um, so you could start four running backs in FFPC. In NFFC, you can only start three running backs essentially, but even in the FFPC Main Event, Jacob,
45:49you've seen a wide range. Um, this is over the last two weeks.
45:53Uh, Jeremiah Love has gone as high as the 209, but he's gone as low as the 308. So, you're still seeing him fall to
46:00that range where structurally you can get get access to a player that I think his rookie year could look a little bit
46:07like Jahmyr Gibbs in a worse offense, but with potentially less running back competition than we saw with like David Montgomery that year. Um, you know,
46:16Tyler Allgeier, even if you love him, even if you think James Conner has a little juice, neither one of those guys
46:21is sniffing what David Montgomery looked like in like 2024, not even close. And then Jeremaine Love, I think the receiving upside is really, really
46:30underrated. I think he's elite there.
46:32So, I understand it like it feels like it's almost an overcorrection from drafters who were burned last year on Ashton Jeanty at the 1-2 turn, and it's
46:40like an overly pushing down. And these are big tournaments, too, where you're not just competing for your 12-man league. You're trying to win that big
46:48money. So, getting access to elite talent, elite-level players, um, you got to do it. You got to mix it in. Let's
46:55talk about a bunch of running backs here, Jacob. I want to throw these guys all in a bag. And I don't think you're
47:00going to necessarily be be in on all of them. You might be in on one of them.
47:03Um, Kyren Williams, Kyren's the highest-drafted, most frequently in round three, Javonte Williams, Travis Etienne, Cam Akers,
47:15and now you're occasionally seeing Josh Jacobs go at the beginning of round four after a lot of fear. Of those five guys,
47:21who's the best player to draft, if any, and who's the worst player to draft of the that group?
47:29>> It's a good question. Um, probably my favorite one at cost would be Jacobs, um, just because I think he's being
47:35priced down.
47:37I won't say artificially cuz, you know, the legal situation is unpredictable.
47:42But I I would say it's like probably 80 to 90% that that has zero effect on his season. And if that's the case, then I
47:49think he is the best of a lot of these bets, which are similar. Like if you were to line up kind of all of the
47:55boring, dead-zoney backs.
47:59Jacobs, Kyren, Javonte, Etienne. Like, you know, before there was any legal situation, everyone was drafting Jacobs first of this group, and I think that's
48:07for pretty good reason.
48:09And I would be drafting him first of this group as well. So, the fact you're getting him later than a lot of these
48:13guys because of some off-field questions that I think are pretty unlikely to matter, I just think that's that's kind of the closest thing to what
48:21I would say made the dead-zone running back less of a pliable term the last few years, which was that we were just getting kind of
48:29every dead-zone profile a round or two cheaper than you traditionally had to.
48:34And so, if that's the case, it changes the cost equation, and like, that's how a Joe Mixon at the 5-6 turn becomes a
48:40really great pick is like, yeah, he is a dead-zone profile, he's a dead-zone profile we used to draft in round three,
48:45and now he's going in round five, and so he's a much better pick. And Jacobs to me is like the type of dead-zoney
48:51profile we would have typically taken right at the start of the third, and now he's going, you know, in the early to mid-fourth, and it's like,
48:58well, better pick there.
49:00The The guy that I think is the worst pick of this group is Javonte Williams, and and I think he is the most He is the
49:07poster boy for me of um people have stopped caring about the running back dead zone because there's been hits from running back dead zone
49:15type profiles, but people aren't realizing or or I think are not appropriately drafting with the realization that that's because a lot of these profiles are going way
49:25later than they used to. Javonte going um in round three is like pretty much exactly where all of the profiles that made the dead zone a
49:35dead zone used to go. And he is the most dead-zoney profile of them all because it's largely based completely on projectable volume. I I I don't think
49:45many people think he's actually that talented. And in particular, if you want to get hits from the dead zone, the two
49:51big things that you want to go for is you want to hit um on on talent-based bets uh where maybe the reason that
49:58they're going in that round three to seven area is because there's confusion about uh the touch count or there's ambiguity in
50:05the backfield. That's certainly not Javonte. And the other big thing you want is pass-catching upside. And his raw totals, like if you look at oh he
50:13had 51 targets, well, he had 3.9 yards per reception last year.
50:2035 for 137 on 51. That's ghastly. Um and even the volume went away pretty quickly. While CeeDee Lamb was hurt, he
50:29had a run where he had six receptions, five receptions, three receptions, then one, and then five.
50:35Once CeeDee Lamb came back, the party was completely over for Javonte Williams' receiving profile. He had one game with more than two
50:41receptions. He had two games the entire rest of the season with more than 10 receiving yards. I'll I'll literally read out the box score. He had one
50:51catch, two yards, one for eight, one for zero, one for zero, two for 14, three 21 and a touchdown, two for zero, zero for
50:59zero, two for nine, zero for zero. Like that that it ain't it. If if that's the profile, like that is like a a round
51:07eight profile from a receiving perspective, where you better get 1,200 rushing yards and 15 touchdowns because if if we're talking about like one, two
51:15receptions per game and no efficiency, that's a killer. So, I I think Javonte um it's a lot of primacy effect, where
51:22he was this workhorse, through true three-down profile early in the year. People got really excited about that. He was so cheap that even though he was not,
51:32you know, being that effective later in the year, it was still a big hit for people. But you better project that the
51:38receiving profile looks very different than how it actually looked with CeeDee Lamb and George Pickens both healthy. Um I think if you're betting on him at at
51:45three-four turn.
51:46>> Yeah, that's a that's a really interesting take. The Jacobs one is like if Ja- Jacobs if of all those guys, the
51:52ADP is going to trend up if he just survives the next few weeks. I mean, if we get to the end of August and it looks
51:59like Jacobs is going to have maybe no suspension or a 2027 suspension based on sort of the competition and the lack of
52:07movement that Green Bay has had at running back besides like Marshawn Lloyd enthusiasm, there's been nothing there.
52:13Um then I think Jacobs the ADP will move up. So, if you're drafting now and you want to get sort of a uh
52:18bad news discount, it's still sort of there with Jacobs. Interesting fade on on Javonte Jacob where you were so adamant about that. Let us know in the
52:27comments where you're at. Are you with Jacob on the Javonte fade cuz I will say Jacob, there are some Javonte enthusiasts out there um and it's an
52:36interesting one that the full fade there. Does it mean you're Are you sort of mixing in a little bit of Jayden Blue
52:41late in drafts just on the on the Javonte fade as >> part of like a double bet?
52:47>> Yeah, I have been a little bit. Um most of my Javonte fade is not like he's going to lose the job. Uh I'm I'm not
52:54you know, I'm not trying to be hyperbolic about it. But if I had to guess, the most likely scenario for Javonte is I think he he performs
53:00basically the way he performed last year in games that both CeeDee Lamb and George Pickens played, which is that you can expect between 15 to 20 carries per
53:10game um and like two targets per game and like probably a touchdown every other game um and that's
53:20fine, but it it's it's just it to me that's going to be like what um I think like my buddy Pat Kerrane calls a silent
53:26killer, which is just the idea of like you know, you you took this profile in round three and it's it's going to be in
53:32your lineup, but like it's not providing you the type of upside that you need from the pick and then obviously you
53:37always have the chance that he gets hurt and and then it's a disaster of a pick.
53:42Um so yeah, I mix in a little bit of Jayden Blue.
53:45Um, I I think probably I'm more intrigued on Jayden Blue and like a best ball set up because Javonte was so poor
53:51in the passing game last year. I think there's a pretty easy lane for Blue to come in and play as a as a passing game
53:56compliment and to have a real role.
53:59I I'm not like that confident that if Javonte went down that Jayden Blue would be some league winner. Like I think
54:05there's other running backs that have a more intriguing three down profile than Jayden Blue does. He's just never really done it. He doesn't have the the touch
54:13volume in college to support it. But as a as a fun complimentary piece, yeah, I'm pretty interested in him.
54:20>> Let's talk about Tyler Warren because Tyler Warren, this is kind of a and if if you're if you're drafting in any sort
54:27of just non-tight end premium format, uh, you can sort of ignore this conversation. Tyler Warren's like a fifth rounder or a sixth rounder on like
54:35Underdog or an NFFC and he'll probably settle in there for like if you're in a sleeper league or Yahoo or ESPN. But for
54:42tight end premium format drafters, Tyler Warren at tight end four overall, he's sort of in a little mini island of his
54:49own there at the tight end position where he goes behind Colston Loveland, but he always seems to go ahead of the
54:55Tucker Kraft, Sam LaPorta, Harold Fant, and Kyle Pitts tier.
54:59Do you think Tyler Warren provides it provides an edge to fantasy managers in a 1.5 point tight end premium format and
55:06he's worth taking as like a late third round pick or is this sort of a pick you're looking to avoid?
55:13>> Uh, I'm open-minded to Tyler Warren. I do have him a little behind ADP and it's mostly just we mentioned earlier I was
55:19talking about all these wide receivers that I love in this range and I I it's just he goes at a portion of the draft
55:26that has a lot of receivers that I'm higher than the market on and if you want to mix Tyler Warren into your
55:32portfolio, that that probably has to come at the expense of Zay Flowers, Tee Higgins, Jaylen Waddle, Garrett Wilson, Tut McMillan. Like, those are the guys
55:41you're going to have to deprioritize to get uh Warren shares. And I don't think that that's something that I'm looking to do. Um I'm a fan of Warren. I'm a
55:48Colts fan. I I for people that don't know. So, I I will I've watched every play of Warren's uh rookie season with vested interest.
55:56Um I think he's excellent in what he's able to provide off of the run game.
56:00My view of the Pittman disappearance has been that the most likely beneficiary is Downs because I think he provides um the
56:09most overlap in skill set as a man beater and in the intermediate area of the field. I think that could be Warren.
56:15The The way that this pays off massively for Warren is I think he just steps up as a player. He's a more refined
56:22uh route runner than what he was in year one. And so, he's able to take on more of that late down passing situation
56:29go-to guy element compared to in year one when I thought most of his production came like as a extension of the run game either on some of these
56:39RPOs, some of these leaks off of play action. Like, I thought it was more about scheming him into space and less
56:44about him just going out and winning. I I thought last year his role was more similar to like a Tucker Kraft's. Um and
56:50you can get Kraft obviously um about two rounds later on FFPC. So, I I've been a little bit soft on Warren. The The Colt
56:57that I've been drafting the most has been Downs.
57:00Um but I I can definitely see the case for him for sure. And I I'd like to not have zero in my portfolio. I think he's
57:06a a pretty interesting player.
57:08>> Yeah, I'm I I think Warren the the target ceiling that he possesses is really high. It you you kind of nailed
57:15it where opportunity cost for Warren versus some of those high-upside wide receivers, it makes it a little bit difficult to pull to to pull the trigger
57:23there. But I do think he has somewhere in like the multiverse, maybe Downs is not as good as you think he could be in
57:31two-wide receiver sets. Maybe Alec Pierce sort of never gets going and stays sort of banged up. And there's a scenario where Tyler Warren is like Trey
57:38McBride light and has 145 targets this year and just sort of delivers from the PPR edge, especially in tight end premium. I have drafted him in a recent
57:47NFFC league where I took him in like I think the sixth round and I like that one. I was stuck OTC. I end up getting a
57:55tight end that I think can provide some value. So, I'm sort of open-minded to Warren, but I think you nailed it, the
58:00opportunity cost is tough. Let's end the show with this. Josh Allen, the everybody's QB1. I'm sure he's your QB1 right now, Jacob.
58:08>> Of course.
58:09>> But are you pulling the trigger?
58:11Are you pulling the trigger on the occasional Josh Allen exposure? Like if I'm stuck OTC and I'm at the three-four turn, are you looking to mix in Josh
58:19Allen in some of these like FFPC? NFFC goes a little bit higher, but third round Allen or are you waiting for the
58:26multitude of very appealing quarterback picks that are available really pretty much from round six through 12.
58:35>> Uh yeah, the latter. Um obviously it's not no disrespect to Josh Allen. He's the very deserving QB1.
58:43It's just the cost is really tough, I think, in these one-QB formats. Almost every time that I've taken an early quarterback since I started drafting on
58:51NFFC and FFPC, I've lived to regret it.
58:54Um and I've lived to regret it not only at the end of the season, but usually like an hour later.
59:00>> And when >> when it's round 12 and there's like a guy that's falling three rounds past ADP and I'm staring down Khalil Shakir and
59:11you know, I I could go ahead and take Justin Herbert instead, but I I already drafted Josh Allen. It's just not a good
59:16spot to be in.
59:18Like I've actually been a proponent of taking earlier quarterbacks, though not really Josh Allen as much, in my Underdog content. And the reason for
59:25that is that there's this massive compression this year at quarterback in in the best ball market where the QB2s are getting priced way up the board
59:35because people want to build these three quarterback rooms. All those factors are are of course completely absent from the NFFC FFPC managed redraft landscape.
59:45And so you're still going to see naturally there's only 12 starting quarterbacks in a league and probably half your room might not even take a backup. So
59:56you get to a certain point and the demand at quarterback declines very precipitously and all of the reasons that these QB2s are getting pushed up on
60:05Underdog and on DraftKings where I think there's a pretty strong quarterback middle class right now are are just reasons for me to wait on quarterback.
60:14So the way I've played it is I I haven't even really like I in my rankings right now I have Allen considerably behind
60:21his ADP at least on FFPC. I have him towards the end of the fourth. I have Lamar behind ADP 2 towards the end of
60:28the sixth. And then I start ranking pretty much all these other quarterbacks in a row almost in the eighth and early
60:36ninth round between Daniels and Burrow and Maye and Hurts and Williams and Herbert.
60:42And I I know the ADP is the ADP but when you actually get into the rooms you're you're often seeing fallers from at
60:47least one of this group just because of the natural element of like there's only so many teams that are looking to take a
60:53quarterback in that range. Teams are making some decisions based on stacking partners rather than pure rankings. And so you can see someone fall pretty
61:01considerably and so probably the first time I start looking at quarterback is in in and around the ninth where maybe I
61:07take whoever is falling from that sort of QB3 through eight group. And then if that doesn't work out for any reason I'm
61:15also completely fine to just keep pushing and draft two of Brock Purdy, Jackson Dart, Patrick Mahomes, Bo Nix, Matt Stafford, Jared Goff, Kyler Murray,
61:26Jordan Love, Malik Willis. Like that that's fine, too, if that ultimately ends up being my team where it's two very late quarterbacks. So,
61:33um I I've done um a few drafts so far. I I think I forget who my quarterbacks were in the first one that I did. I think I ended up
61:42going double late quarterback. It was like Jordan Love and Brock Purdy or something. Uh the next two drafts I've done I took Jalen Hurts both times, and
61:50I took him in the ninth and one and then in the 10th in another where he starts to fall and I think like you start
61:55looking at the 2v2 and it's like would I rather have Matthew Golden and Josh Allen or Jalen Hurts and Jaylen Waddle? And it's
62:05like that's pretty much what the 2v2 is.
62:08I'm taking the Hurts-Waddle side of that every single time.
62:11>> Yeah, I think I think you nailed it.
62:12It's it's you're getting access to potential league winners at running back and wide receiver.
62:18And the safety of Josh Allen sort of it's appealing because you know he's not going to bust, but you're missing out on
62:25potentially a league-winning value and you're able to recover at quarterback super easy. I think another point is structurally, if you're listening to
62:32Jacob, you're listening to me, there's if you're going to take a one-off position this year early, I prefer the elite tight ends than the elite
62:40quarterback because I think there's some potential league winners there and it's very difficult for you in any of these formats to go early tight end and early
62:48quarterback in the same draft. That sort of really kills your build. So, this was this was an awesome one today with
62:54Jacob. Make sure you're checking out his Substack, Thinking About Thinking. Check him out over on Dynasty Points podcast.
63:01And also over with the Ship Chasing guys, ADP Chasing. Stick with us here at Rotowire. I'm going to drop in shows
63:07like this every day in the month of July.
63:10Check out my rankings. They're live over at rotowire.com. Use the code Theo for 15% off or Theo15 for 15% off. Uh and
63:19daily shows like this one, if you're listening on the pod, come check us out on YouTube. We're going to do some
63:23YouTube exclusive content, including some live drafts. We're going to help you crush your leagues this season, and I'll see you soon.