0:00Welcome to the NFL Pro Week 5 Reaction Podcast.
0:03Thank you for listening on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
0:08Be sure to follow and subscribe to the show.
0:10Cobb breaks a tackle! Close! Diving! Where do they mark it?
0:14Where do they put it? Football is a Game of Inches and also a Game of Seconds.
0:19Oh my goodness! They're not going to be able to get this out of time!
0:24And also, somehow now, a Game of Frames. Boy, that is...
0:27I just don't know. How do you mark that, Dean?
0:30Oh! And the kick is gone! And the Jaguars win it!
0:34Is this the greatest reality show in the world?
0:36It really is. NFL, unbelievable. What a week for football.
0:39Trevor, we're going to begin, obviously, with Niners, Seahawks up in Seattle.
0:43The play that everybody's talking about, one of the last plays of the game, effectively the last play of the game.
0:49Was Cooper Cup far enough in bounds for that to be considered a first down?
0:54Or rather, was the ball still in bounds as he crossed the marker?
0:58That is the question that everybody's been trying to figure out.
1:01Because if you're just watching it on the broadcast, it is almost impossible to tell.
1:06Being the sicko that I am, and being that the NFL gave us access to literally 14 angles from within the stadium,
1:13all of the cameras, whether they were shown in the broadcast or not, I went on a little bit of a quest after that game was over.
1:21I found the exact frame, laterally, where the ball hit the first down marker.
1:25And then I looked at every angle on that frame to determine, was the ball still in bounds or not?
1:32We are talking, literally, the difference of a frame deciding if this game was over or not.
1:37And after looking at every single angle that I had available to me, again, 14 angles from within the stadium, I still can't tell.
1:44And ultimately, that means that the call had to stand.
1:47If you can't definitively tell that he got the first down, and I can't, if you can't definitively tell, that call has to stand.
1:55I'm with you. I think when I saw all those angles myself, I did not think that there was enough definitive evidence to overturn it.
2:02And I think they got it right. I think they got this call right.
2:07And full transparency, if we found evidence they were wrong, we would have shown that to you.
2:12Like, we have no loyalties, no allegiance here. Like, yes, this is a show produced by the league.
2:17We are not afraid of saying when things were wrong.
2:21We just don't know that they were. But ultimately, this game was not determined by just that one play.
2:26There was a lot that led up to that moment that gave it the weight that it had behind it.
2:32So let's talk about everything that kind of led to that and truly how great of a football game this really was.
2:39Where do they put it? They say he's short!
2:4249ers take over! Oh! So close! Yeah, and I mean, when you look at Brock Purdy in this game, he was 19 for 29, 189.
2:50Passing yards. Had a quarterback rating of 92.5 thanks to two touchdowns and one interception.
2:54It wasn't catastrophic from him like we've seen with him against Mike McDonald in the past.
2:59But he was still stressed. Like, he was still stressed the entire game.
3:03This was absolutely two heavyweights going at it. But I want to start out shouting out my boy Mike Evans because they said he was over the hill.
3:12They said, oh, he's moving on from Tampa. He's just trying to get a couple of easy wins.
3:17No, no, no, no, no. Mike Evans is still one of the better receivers that we have in the game, especially when
3:24you put him in that category of, I'll call it X receivers.
3:28But Mike Evans has a lot of work inside the numbers now as well, close to the hash marks.
3:34I mean, this is just where the game is going.
3:37You get your big guys to be able to play in the slot.
3:41Evans is so good at that. And, I mean, you could just go to the first touchdown that he had where, okay,
3:48they're lined up close to the goal line. Mike Evans, he could have very well done one of his signature, you know, fades to the back pylon.
3:56And then, you know, it's a contested catch above the rim.
3:59And he kind of fakes that he's going to do that a little bit.
4:04But then he gets so clean across the face of the defender.
4:07Boom, he creates that throwing window. Mike Evans is so good because not only does he still win physically, it's the fact
4:14that, okay, maybe he's not as fast as what he used to be.
4:18That football IQ is as sharp as it's ever been.
4:21He is aging so gracefully. And, I mean, he had a takeover drive in the second half where it was basically only Mike Evans.
4:28I think it was to start that fourth quarter.
4:31It was just unbelievable to watch. It was cool to have Brady in the booth for this game, obviously, because of the
4:38connection that him and Brady had when they were in Tampa Bay.
4:42All these contested catches, second half of games, he's gutting it up.
4:45He's just a consummate pro, first ballot Hall of Famer.
4:48Big reason why Shanahan brought him here was to bring some of this greatness out in the other receiving core that he's got.
4:55And Evans has done that today. You could tell Brady's just like, that's my boy.
5:00That's my boy, Mike Evans, right there every single time that he came up with a big catch.
5:06But what a signing for the 49ers because can you imagine where this team would be right now without Mike Evans, given all the injuries that they have?
5:14He has been just a godsend for them this season and is a major reason why they got the win today.
5:21He may be an old man, but you just give him a corner he can start beef with.
5:26It's like Popeye getting his spinach. Did you see him?
5:29Did you see him? When he turned Diggs around him.
5:32Dude, he was like, wait a second, hold on.
5:35Who are you? Let me look at the nameplate.
5:38And Diggs was like, wait a second. And he almost goes to slap him away.
5:43Just an unbelievable, just chef kiss troll job. Forged, forged in Tampa Bay and New Orleans from the days of Marshawn Lattimore and Mike Evans going at it.
5:51And we need more of that. We need more corner wide receiver notable rivalries in this league.
5:56I think, by the way, he's reuniting with his best friend Marshawn Lattimore next week.
6:01So mark your calendars, folks. Evans v. Lattimore part, I don't know, 12.
6:05Yeah, baby. I will say, beyond Evans taking this game over, something that really stuck out to me was just how much
6:12respect the next-gen stats win probability model gave to both of these teams.
6:16It was like they kind of acknowledged that both teams were really, really good.
6:20Because the sheer number of swings in the second half off of turnovers, the model was just going all over the place
6:27because of how good these two teams are. Like, there are some teams where, you know, the better team turns it over
6:34and it moves like 5% because it's like, let's be real now.
6:37They're fine. This one, early in the third quarter, that Renardo Green interception, the Niners went up to an 83% win probability
6:44just from that because they had to lead in the second half.
6:48Then you get a turnover. All over, man. What, a 60% swing in nine minutes of game clock?
6:53Then you get to halfway through the fourth quarter.
6:56It's like 53-47, dead even. And then finally the Niners, you know, by that ending play with Cup, they win the game.
7:03But the win probability model was like, I don't know, man.
7:06It's two good teams. We'll see what happens. Couldn't figure it out.
7:10I mentioned that it wasn't Purdy's, you know, best game because, you know, nobody ever has their best game against Mike McDonald, let's be honest.
7:18But Purdy was pressured on 50% of his drop back.
7:21So that's a tough day at the office no matter who you're going up against, obviously.
7:25It's her third highest rate in his career. He completed seven of 13 attempts under pressure for 72 yards.
7:31Got sacked three times, which he didn't get sacked at all through the first four weeks of the season.
7:37So they brought him down more than anybody else did because, well, nobody else did.
7:42However, after Purdy's interception, he was 10 for 11, 109 passing yards, a passing touchdown, and a 138.3 passer rating.
7:48So he definitely bounced back. But overall, seven turnovers in this game resulting in 38 total points between the Niners and the Seahawks.
7:55And you mentioned Renardo Green there a second ago.
7:58I want to get to him because he had two of those turnovers with two interceptions in this game.
8:04And he is playing with so much confidence and high football IQ in Raheem Morris' defense.
8:09Overall in this game, as a neutral fan, it was everything I wanted it to be, right?
8:14It's two of the three best teams in the conference just throwing haymakers at each other.
8:19Turnovers all over the place. Points everywhere. Drama. Controversy.
8:21It was awesome. I understand Hawks and Niners fans were stressed watching this game.
8:26But as a neutral fan, it was everything I hoped it would and could be.
8:30And I can't wait for part two. That being said, next game I want to talk about was nothing like what I expected it to be.
8:38And that's Eagles versus Jacksonville. Crossed the pond over in London.
8:42This was sloppy. I would say the Jags were more sloppy than the Eagles for most of the game.
8:48A lot of penalties still from the Jags. Tons of penalties.
8:51Yes. And ultimately, the Eagles capitalized on that sloppiness from the Jags for 99% of the game.
8:56Until the last, literally, the last two plays. They were down with eight seconds to go.
9:01But a great return by Abdullah puts Cam Little in position to kick the game winner.
9:06I just want you to know how many memes I had ready to fire at you on Twitter.
9:12Because my 10 confidence game lost on Thursday night.
9:14And your 10 confidence, it looked like I was dead in the water.
9:18And then your 10 confidence game was you picked the Jags over the Eagles.
9:23And when the Eagles kicked that field goal, oh man.
9:26Man, the holster was ready. I was about to just unload so many memes at you because we were going to be in the same exact spot.
9:34At that point, we would have both lost our 9 and 10 spot games at the same time.
9:40So I'm pretty sure the comments would have completely annihilated us this week.
9:44As far as how many points they got. It'll just be me.
9:47It'll just be me. Probably. I'm just trying to get 40 points in one week one of these times.
9:53That'd be great. The Friday show is going to be must watch YouTube television for you guys, just so you know.
10:00It's going to be bad. It's going to be real bad.
10:03But yeah, man. I mean, like, how does that happen with Philly?
10:07Like, just kick the touchback. Like, you got it.
10:09We talked about special teams, I feel like, so many times already on this show.
10:14And how this feels like we kind of say it tongue-in-cheek, but it's not.
10:18It's like the year of special teams. The top of the show where I said the margin for error is so small.
10:25It always is in the NFL, but this year it feels smaller than ever.
10:29And if you're not winning in the little margins, including how you're handling special teams, this is the stuff that can happen.
10:36And the thing that gets me is the return that they popped, it was the same return formation that the opening kickoff
10:43of the game, which ultimately didn't count because of penalties and you had like ejections and everything like that.
10:49That opening kickoff return for touchdown was the same return formation.
10:52It was flipped, right? It was a strong return to the right rather than to the left.
10:57And it's a very simple return, right? You're just double-teaming the number four.
11:01You allow the number three to kind of shoot up field.
11:05The opposite return man that isn't catching the ball, he then becomes a lead on the one.
11:10And you just almost kind of create this fold blocks, very similar to a running play.
11:15And then you pop it and you got one man to beat and that's the kicker.
11:20Like they already gave up a touchdown doing that early this game.
11:23And the only returns that they really stopped, it was like middle returns where they got, I don't know, 15, 18 yards.
11:30But as soon as they saw that same formation, which the Jags went back to because they already popped it in the game.
11:37They're like, we need a big return. Let's do the same thing.
11:41At that point, somebody should have raised their hand and was like, hey, we already gave up one with this exact same formation.
11:48Kick the touchback. And they just didn't. I have no idea why they didn't do it.
11:53And you know what? I think everybody's going to talk about the touchback and how they should have kicked the touchback there.
12:00This probably doesn't happen if you do it. And, you know, Sirianni talked afterwards about, you know, it being on him and everything.
12:07Brett, I'd be more upset if I was an Eagles fan about how we got there and how there was even time left on the clock.
12:15Because if you go to the last series and the last four downs that the Eagles had when it came to kicking the field goal, all right?
12:23It's first and 10. Jacksonville has one timeout. Philadelphia has one timeout.
12:27And on first and 10, they throw to the sideline.
12:30It's almost intercepted. Then, okay, it's second and 10.
12:33Four seconds ran off the clock. There's 21 seconds left in the game.
12:37Again, Jacksonville still has a timeout. It's at Jacksonville's 34-yard line.
12:40You're already well within field goal range. They call an outbreaking route for Makai Lemon.
12:45Okay, so he catches the football. Sure, great. Completion.
12:47He runs out of bounds. Jacksonville doesn't have to call the timeout now.
12:51Then on third and three, it's a run play that you kind of watch the offensive line.
12:57They're not really trying to get the first down.
12:59They're just trying to set up the field goal for the position that they want it.
13:04Then after the run play, Jacksonville takes their timeout.
13:07There's 12 seconds left in the game. They kick the field goal.
13:11Now there's eight seconds left in the game. But Brett, what bothers me here is that there were still eight seconds left in the game.
13:18I know that they don't have Saquon. I know the offensive line isn't great.
13:23But what this really comes down to, to me, is Jalen Hurts and the unwillingness or lack of preference that he has
13:30for throwing over the middle of the field. So Brett, if he throws that ball to Dallas Goddard, that's all you needed.
13:36Like, you didn't need to get to the first down mark.
13:40You should have seen the cushion, been able to take the cushion.
13:43It's over the middle of the field. You're forcing Jacksonville to then burn that timeout on second down.
13:49You're in the same situation. And then because you still have a timeout, you get to run the ball, bring it down
13:56to two seconds left, call the timeout, kick the field goal.
13:59Boom. We're going home. Fish and chips for everybody.
14:02That's the in the margin stuff. And when you go back to Jalen Hurts, you remember that Tennessee Titans game where they
14:09had that comeback win in week two? Guess what most of the concepts were?
14:13Outside the numbers. Because when the back is against the wall, I feel like they go, Jalen, let's just do what you are most comfortable with.
14:21And it worked for the Titans game because they marched down the field, they scored the touchdown they needed and they won.
14:28But even though it quote unquote worked here in this game, it didn't work as well as it could have or should
14:34have for them to win the game. And I think that that is just an observation that I've had with Hurts where
14:41even when it looks good, it's not as good as it could be because you've got to be able to take advantage over the middle of the field.
14:50And in this situation, if they would have been able to do that, Philadelphia wins this game and not Jacksonville.
14:56It's results over process compounded over years. Yes. Right.
14:59And we actually have data on this. It's not just us saying, trust me, bro, he doesn't throw over the middle of the field.
15:06Next Gen Stats was able to create a stat for us because of all the tracking data.
15:11They have the concept data. They have the target data, like they have all that data.
15:16So let's just create a new stat table that we can reference.
15:20And it's the percentage of a quarterback's dropbacks that feature an intermediate in breaking route over the middle of the field.
15:26And then we compare that to the percentage of those routes that they're actually targeting.
15:31If you look at Jalen last year, different OC, different personnel, 41% of his dropbacks featured an intermediate in breaker, which was
15:38the fourth lowest rate in the NFL. So part of it, okay, was on the structure of the offense.
15:44And yet when they did have an intermediate in breaker, he only threw it 17% of the time, which was the 10th lowest rate.
15:51So it was kind of both in that regard.
15:54Now 49% of his dropbacks feature an intermediate in breaking route.
15:57That's 15th lowest. Let's just call it dead average in the league, right?
16:01He's still throwing it at a 16% rate. That's eighth lowest.
16:04He's actually throwing it less this year, even with an offense that's calling it more.
16:09So like, this isn't just us talking out of our, he's not throwing it.
16:13We don't know why he's never done it. If you go back to 2020, right?
16:18When he came into the league, he has the lowest rate of targeting the middle of the field at all.
16:24Whether it's deep, intermediate, short. He does it 18% of the time since 2020.
16:28He doesn't throw over the middle and defenses know that.
16:32Yeah. They call coverages specifically to play the sidelines because they know he doesn't like to do it.
16:37But whether it's been Kevin Petulo at OC or Sean Manning or Kellen Moore, whoever, every single year, it feels like the
16:44Eagles offense kind of devolves into this. And I feel like at some point, the only thing linking all of these years
16:51together is the quarterback, not the OC. Yeah. I mean, this is two weeks in a row now for the Eagles because
16:57they've blown having a 94% or higher win probability in the fourth quarter and haven't been able to come away with the win.
17:04And look, I know that people are probably tired of, oh, Jalen Hurst doesn't throw her in the middle.
17:10That's all anybody talks about. But hopefully this was a tangible way that we could point out to you guys that where
17:17what Jalen Hurst does works, when you don't unlock the middle of the field, these are the things that can happen.
17:23Any thoughts on this game from any other big player performances?
17:27I mean, another great Parker Washington day. Jalen Carter was unbelievable in this game, but we got a lot of other player performances.
17:34So any thoughts on those guys before we move on to some other games?
17:38So Parker Washington apparently was offered $25 million a year this offseason, turned it down better on himself.
17:44And that bet is paying off. Six catches, buck 24, two touchdowns.
17:47His late touchdown, the completion probability on that was 21.7%.
17:51And he pulled it in. He is the number one in Jacksonville.
17:54And I think he's going to get paid like a number one receiver this offseason, whether it's in Jacksonville or elsewhere.
18:01But if I'm the Jags, how could I let him go?
18:04With what he does for Trevor, other Trevor. Long hair Trevor.
18:07You can't. And me. I mean, he's on a couple of my fantasy teams.
18:12What do you mean? And for me. And for me.
18:15Let's talk about the Patriots and the Raiders next.
18:18Patriots win this game 45-17. I'm not really too worried about this from a Raiders perspective.
18:23You and I have talked about how we are excited for this team, but they're not quite there yet.
18:28And we've talked about and mentioned how, okay, yeah, big time struggles for Drake May early on in the season.
18:35Big time bounce back performance here for Drake May.
18:3726-34. 374 yards. Four touchdowns. No interceptions. It also had a rushing touchdown as well.
18:42Brett, what really stands out to me in this game was two things.
18:46And it's two sides of, I think, the same coin that we're having this conversation with.
18:51How Drake May continues to look when you present him with press coverage opportunities where he could take advantage of close coverage
18:58and just bet on his guys one-on-one, mainly to the outside the numbers and sideline parts of the field.
19:03Because in this game, most of May's passing production came against press coverage.
19:07118 of his 374 yards came when targeting pressed receivers.
19:10And the Raiders played it a lot. And so that was my big takeaway is I kind of looked at the Raiders
19:17defense game plan and I went, why? Like, you look at how May struggled early on in the year.
19:23It was that cover six look. It was softer coverage.
19:26It was deeper zone coverage where he'd have to really think about who.
19:30I mean, if you're one-on-one in press coverage, Drake May does that in sleep.
19:34We talked about this last week. He didn't get a ton of man coverage looks.
19:39He didn't get a ton of press coverage looks.
19:42But when he did, guess what? He took advantage of it.
19:45It's a big reason why they won that game last week.
19:49And I'm just very confused as why the Raiders decided to go with that type of game plan, given how good Drake
19:55May is when you are in press coverage. So that was a big surprise to me.
20:00But kudos to Drake May. When you give him the chance to bet on his receivers, he's going to do it.
20:07And history tells us he's going to do it pretty well.
20:10To me, I think the press-heavy nature of this defense, no matter what the coverage call was, was in response to all
20:17of the chips that the Patriots were doing. Even before Will got injured, there was a really high chip rate against these
20:24Raiders' edges by the Patriots because they were trying to buy time for Drake to stretch the field.
20:29And so the Raiders were like, all right, if you're disrupting us and buying time, we're going to disrupt you and buy time back.
20:37Like literally on the edges of the field, right, against the receivers.
20:40The thing is, though, you have to actually be able to disrupt these receivers and keep them from winning vertically down the field.
20:47Because if you don't, and Drake is kept clean because these Raiders' edges are getting chipped, and so he has a clean
20:54pocket, he's just going to put the ball wherever he wants to deep and outside the numbers.
20:59We saw that in the Kyle Williams touchdown, which while it did look like it was against man coverage, it was a quarters look.
21:07He had three touchdowns against quarters today. He was like seven for eight for 117 and three touchdowns just against quarters because
21:13of the nature of that man-to-man on the outside.
21:16He eats this coverage alive because it's just one-on-one, right?
21:19So the fact that the Raiders even gave him that opportunity to me was a mistake, and I think the fact that
21:26they responded to those chips with trying to disrupt these receivers in their own right, that's a mistake against this particular quarterback and these particular receivers.
21:34They did not play them correctly, and they got lit up as a result.
21:38100%. And sort of like I said at the beginning, I think that this is more of a compliment to what the Patriots were able to do in.
21:47I don't really see the Raiders in too different of a light, although an interesting note here for the Raiders is Fernando
21:54Mendoza did get in the game in this one because the score was so different.
21:58He was six for eight, 48 passing yards. Garbage time, obviously, but we're actually going to do a little video short later.
22:05We'll break down. It's limited action for Fernando Mendoza, so we didn't want to do like a full breakdown here on the
22:12show, but we'll have something later coming up on the channel so you guys can watch out for that because it is
22:19exciting that Fernando Mendoza got into the game for the first time.
22:22Another note before we button up this game here, May had six players who caught at least three passes, and that's the sign of a confident quarterback.
22:31That's the sign of somebody who is confident about wherever he's going to throw the football, and I think you feel that
22:37confident because you feel that confident against what the defense is presenting you against your receivers.
22:42So let's move on to the next game. The Green Bay Packers, man, speaking of games that had a difference on the
22:49scoreboard, 31-7 here with the Chicago Bears. I think the main storyline is Jordan Love and how good he looked in this game.
22:56You want to talk about, we just talked about when May is feeling confident in what he is seeing.
23:02Jordan Love is always as confident as he possibly can be when he is that fadeaway deep ball passer, and in this
23:09game, he could not have been more than that in the best way.
23:13Completed six of eight passes of 20 or more air yards for a career-high 258 yards on those deep passes, two touchdowns.
23:20That's also the most deep completions of 20 or more air yards of any quarterback this season in a single game, and
23:26it's a career high in a single game for Jordan Love as well.
23:30Only Russell Wilson, who had 264 yards in Week 2 of 2025, had more deep passing yards in a single game in the NGS era.
23:38So all that to say, Brad, as I said on Twitter, there's always ammo in the rocket launcher when you're Jordan Love.
23:45It doesn't matter what the game script is. It doesn't matter whether you're up, down, by 30, by 40, by 1, by 2, rain, sleet, shine.
23:53He'd be playing on Antarctica. It doesn't matter. If there's a deep pass to be had, Jordan Love is going to throw it.
24:00And again, I think that you get the results that you have today when he is playing that confidently, because that's how
24:07Jordan Love wants to play the game. Yeah, just a casual 32 yards per attempt on deep passes in this game.
24:13Which is nuts, dude. Just nuts. I mean, it helps when you have Christian Watson and Matthew Golden.
24:19And Matthew Golden, I think, has actually been kind of underappreciated this season.
24:23It feels like every time I watch a Packers game, he's doing something cool.
24:27Also, side note before we move on, the entire NFC North after this game is above 500.
24:32You have three teams that are 3-2, and you have one team that's 5-0.
24:36So we thought this division was going to be really good before the season.
24:41They're definitely really good as a whole. They're not good in the ways that we thought they would be, but the record is the record, I guess.
24:49It's definitely wacky. Technically, the Bears are last in the NFC North right now.
24:53Which, by the way, I'm not worried about the Bears at all, really.
24:57Like, I know they got killed in this game.
25:00It wasn't pretty. To me, it was a really bad day for their safeties.
25:04We already kind of knew the defense was going to be not one of the better defenses in the NFL, if I do say so, so politely.
25:13But they've been better than I thought that they would as a unit for the majority of the first quarter of this season.
25:20This is just a really bad day, I think, for all deep coverage.
25:24Again, specifically, I don't think the safeties had a really good day for them.
25:28And Jordan Love picked them apart. So, to me, it was kind of a perfect storm of what went wrong in Chicago.
25:35I'm not worried about this team long-term. By the way, most passing yards by a Packers quarterback versus the Bears specifically at Lambeau Field.
25:42Jordan Love, 367 yards on Sunday. Number one on the list.
25:46Had a Brett Favre. Had a Aaron Rodgers. Had a Lynn Dickey.
25:49Who had 345 in 1983. Let's go. May we never forget?
25:53Actually, unfortunately, we might forget it now because Jordan Love's now at the top of that list.
25:58I'm shocked that Aaron never did that in all those years at Lambeau.
26:02Aaron had 341, so he had a lot in 2021.
26:05Before we move on from this game, I want to give one more note about a Packers receiver destroying the Bears.
26:11This is the first time a Packers receiver has got multiple 40-plus yard touchdowns in a single game since Jordy Nelson, was it 12 years ago?
26:19Also conveniently against the Bears. So, this was a pretty significant performance by Christian Watson.
26:24He's also the only player in the NFL to have multiple 140-plus yard games with multiple touchdowns.
26:29So, he is on an absolute tear right now.
26:32One of the most productive players at any position in the NFL in this young season.
26:37Speaking of receivers, by the way. Yes? We should talk about Marvin Harrison Jr.
26:41getting traded. It broke right after the Texans-Titans game was over.
26:45Yes. All right. We traded for Marvin Harrison. See ya.
26:48So, the whole all-in or all-out in the season hinged on beating the Titans, right?
26:52Like, that's how we follow the team. If they would have lost to the Titans, and it would have been 0-5, this trade doesn't happen.
27:00But because they beat the Titans, which I think is kind of funny because the Jags are now 4-1, the Texans are
27:071-4, the chances of winning the division are extremely slim for them.
27:10So, you're now all-in just to make the wild card.
27:13They feel, because they still have two games against the Jags, they can steal that margin back from them.
27:19They hold their own destiny. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
27:23That's how they look at it, right? And just last year, they were 0-3 to start and still made the playoffs with 12 wins.
27:30So, they know they can go on a run here.
27:33I think they won like nine straight at one point last year.
27:37I mean, for them, the key thing is, hey, our quarterback is playing really well.
27:42Right, right. Yeah. So, why don't we lean into that?
27:45I just thought it was funny that the Titans game specifically was the we're all in or we're all out after this game.
27:52Well, I think it's if you lose to Tennessee this year.
27:55No, it's true. We're just bad. Yeah, yeah. Which, by the way, man, I mean, Tennessee, I think we'll have a much
28:02longer conversation about the Titans when we start to talk about teams.
28:06They're maybe turning the page and we're looking at the offseason because I think that's sort of where we're at with the Titans.
28:13But for the Texans, they get, I'll call it an easy win.
28:17It's an easy win. And then after the game, they trade for Marvin Harrison Jr.
28:21Now, the compensation for this trade, a 2027 seventh round pick comes with Marvin Harrison Jr.
28:26So, Marvin Harrison in a 2027 seventh round pick going to the Houston Texans and going to the Arizona Cardinals is a second round pick this upcoming draft.
28:35And then a sixth round pick, so a late round pick swap, but mainly you are looking at a second round pick
28:41type of value for Marvin Harrison, who was obviously picked number four overall.
28:45So that's not a great return on investment for the Cardinals specifically, but he was getting outplayed and he has been getting outplayed basically since he got there.
28:54So overall, your thoughts on the trade and your thoughts on the fit here with the Houston Texans?
29:00I don't think this trade happens if Jaden Higgins doesn't get hurt before the season starts.
29:04I'm with you, which is why I'm a little, I'm a little skeptical of the overall value of a second round pick
29:11here because I look Higgins got hurt. I get it.
29:14He tore his ACL. It's nothing that's light, but man, I feel like we're, I feel like we're seeing players all across
29:21the league over the last two or three years, not just come back from ACL injuries, but like come back and play
29:28really, really well just because of how things are with surgeries and rehab and everything.
29:32So I was, I was a little shocked at them giving up a second round pick for Marvin Harrison Jr.
29:39knowing that a year from now, you kind of now just have two players who play the exact same position, but I
29:45suppose they really didn't want Nico Collins playing the X at all.
29:49So maybe more X receivers, the better in this offense, potentially.
29:52Not that Nico can't play the X. Obviously he can play the X when Nico was on the ball.
29:58He has a yards per route run of 2.2, which is very solid.
30:02The thing is when Nico's off the ball and you give him space to work, especially because he is a big, strong receiver.
30:09Like if he's not disrupted and he just gets rolling, he overwhelms corners.
30:13Nico's at a Z spot or in the slot.
30:16If he's off the ball, his yards per route run goes from 2.2 to 4.1, which is ridiculous.
30:22But you kind of have to put him on the ball.
30:25If you don't have anybody else that you feel comfortable with being an X receiver and Marvin Harrison Jr.
30:31While he hasn't reached the potential that we thought he could coming out of Ohio state, when he's on the ball, he's at 1.9 yards per route run.
30:39When he's off the ball, he's at 0.9 yards per route run, which is a not good number at all.
30:46So Marvin really does thrive being on the ball.
30:48And so you just kind of park him there at X and you have Nico be the queen on the chessboard that can move all over the place.
30:57Xavier Hutchinson can still contribute. Obviously, Jalen Knoll can still contribute.
31:00But I think they needed to get that X receiver.
31:03And as for the compensation, if they lost to Tennessee and they go at 0-5 and they don't make the playoffs, I
31:10think Casario and D'Amico were thinking, would we even be around to use those picks anyway?
31:15Right? Not to say that they're on the hot seat, but you can get on the hot seat pretty quick here.
31:22I hear what you're saying. Look, I'm more skeptical of this.
31:25And maybe I shouldn't have this much face of a guy coming off of an ACL tear.
31:30But I thought Jaden Higgins looked good. I thought he was progressing.
31:34Certainly before he got hurt, I was really excited about Jaden Higgins this season.
31:38And Brett, Jaden Higgins is a better athlete than Marvin Harris Jr.
31:42is. I know neither of them are super great separators, but you look at Jaden Higgins and just his overall combine profile here.
31:4960 and 65th percentile when it came to 40-yard dash and 10-yard split.
31:53But then vertical jump. I mean, 85th percentile vertical jump, 85th percentile broad jump.
31:57This is an explosive athlete. So if you're going to say, hey, we want somebody on the line of scrimmage to be
32:04our X, receiver who's going to be our vertical player to free up Nico Collins, I tell you, Jaden Higgins does that better than Marvin Harrison Jr.
32:12At least right now. You're not wrong. But I think the Texans know better than most other teams that you can go
32:19from a really deep receiving core to having absolutely nobody really quickly.
32:23I think of a year from now, it's Nico Collins, it's Jaden Higgins, it's Jalen Noel playing the slot.
32:29And then you get to draft another receiver as every team does every single year because wide receiver is so deep coming out of college.
32:36So I'm just, I'm a little bit more skeptical about it.
32:40But I will say this. If you're just going to be a contested catch receiver, which I kind of think that Marvin Harrison Jr.
32:47is just a contested catch receiver in the NFL.
32:50You might as well be a contested catch receiver with a quarterback that you have good chemistry with because that's the only way that works.
32:58And Harrison has chemistry with CJ Stroud going back to that 2022 season when they were playing together when Harrison Jr.
33:04was a sophomore and CJ was a junior, I believe.
33:07So I suppose that's the catalyst for it as well is that you're hoping that you're unlocking that chemistry that they had.
33:14In the last 15 to 17 years, there's only been three top five overall draft picks that have been traded in their first three seasons.
33:22And they were Aaron Curry, Trent Richardson, and Trey Lance.
33:25So hopefully it doesn't end up like that. And look, Arizona was very, very willing to give up on him because you
33:31have Trey McBride and you have Michael Wilson, right?
33:34And I think they wanted Marvin Harrison Jr. to be a lot more than a contested catch player because they have the contested catch player in Trey McBride.
33:43But man, when this trade happened, I went back and I watched some Ohio State stuff back from 2022.
33:49Some of the highlights just from CJ and Marvin Harrison Jr.
33:52It's kind of crazy how much more talented that Ohio State team is than basically everybody that they played against.
33:58I'm skeptical of them giving up the second round pick.
34:01But hey, you're one in four. CJ is playing better.
34:04You hope that your defense bounces back. And obviously they're just hoping that this isn't a wasted year.
34:10So you pay a little bit of a premium for this to not be more of a wasted year.
34:16But I don't know. Maybe I'm just too much of a Jaden Higgins fan to let this sit well with me.
34:22I will say a lot of people on the Internet have said this is why we don't give the generational label to
34:29prospects because we don't know until they get to the NFL.
34:32You're correct. But that being said, there is an actual generational receiver coming out of Ohio State this year.
34:38We talk about him a lot in the spring.
34:41Even watching Marvin's June Marvin Jr.'s tape at Ohio State compared to Jeremiah Smith.
34:45Let's go back to some top performances that we had this week highlighting some of these games.
34:50The Pittsburgh Steelers got a victory over the Indianapolis Colts.
34:5334-22 in this game. The star, look, I know when we talk about the Steelers, sometimes we're talking about the defensive line.
35:00We're talking about Aaron Rodgers. We're talking about all kinds of stuff.
35:04Dude, Jalen Warren is a story this season. How well he is playing and specifically in this game, how fantastic he was.
35:1115 carries, 101 rushing yards, one touchdown. 50 yards over expected.
35:14And he also ran 24 routes, 6 targets, 6 catches, 87 receiving yards, and a touchdown there as well.
35:20Dude, I love Jalen Warren's style of play because when you go watch some of the big plays from him in this game, Brett, there's inside zone.
35:28There's manning gap scheme blocking concepts. There's some outside zone.
35:31There's swing passes. There's routes he's running out of the backfield.
35:35He does it all. And the reason why is because he's a high IQ football player.
35:40He's got great vision. Fantastic contact balance. Light on his feet.
35:43His 59 rushing yards after missed tackles this week are second only to Bucky Irving.
35:48And everybody watched the Thursday Night Football game where Bucky had that insane run where it was a forced missed tackle and
35:54then a cutback and then he's just off to the races.
35:58So outside of that Bucky Irving run, Jalen Warren did it better than anybody that wasn't named Bucky Irving this week.
36:04And so had to give him his flowers with how the Steelers were able to get a win over the Colts and him being a big reason why.
36:13And he's been like that all year, right? Even coming into this week, he was among the league leaders in terms of
36:20missed tackles Forrest as well as yardage after missed tackles.
36:23Like he and Kenneth Walker were pretty close to each other in that metric.
36:27And Kenneth has been obviously incredible this year as well.
36:30Warren, fun fact, became the first player with an 80 yard receiving touchdown and a 50 yard rushing touchdown in the same
36:37game since Herschel Walker versus the Eagles in 1986.
36:40Well, because they still have two games against the Jags, they can steal that margin back from them.
36:45They hold their own destiny. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
36:49That's how they look at it, right? And just last year, so we are talking 40 years since a player's done that for any team against anyone.
36:57That's awesome. It's just a ridiculous, ridiculous performance. He's been awesome this year.
37:01He led the team in rushing and receiving. He led the team in rushing and receiving today.
37:06That's amazing. He's incredible. He's incredible. And that's what's really hard.
37:10Like I think one of the underrated races this year is all pro for running back.
37:15Who do you pick? Right? Bijon's going off this year.
37:18Kenneth Walker's been going off. Jalen Warren. I mean, the running backs across the league are just putting on a show.
37:24I can't pick one. Yeah, man. You didn't even mention Gibbs, did you?
37:28You didn't even mention Jameer Gibbs. Yeah. And Jameer Gibbs, he went nuclear in his game as well.
37:34I mean, when you go to this Lions game against the Cardinals, it wasn't very close.
37:39It was 45-21. But Gibbs, again, man, 25 carries, 151 rushing yards, two touchdowns, 6.0 yards per carry average, almost 50 rushing
37:45yards over expected from him as well. Gibbs, six targets, five receptions, 56 receiving yards.
37:50It just feels like every single time the ball is in his hand, you just, you have to stop what you're doing.
37:57Because you might be about to watch something extremely special in this game.
38:01And he has also been unbelievable, and it's the reason why Detroit's offense is what it is.
38:06Detroit's offense has to pick up their defense for any game that they want to win this season, but oh boy, they're
38:13thankful that they have Jameer Gibbs to be able to do that.
38:16Don't tell Kelvin Shepard that. Look, man, I just read the stats.
38:20Yeah, that's all I'm doing. I'm just, I'm here on this show.
38:24So anything that you put on that teleprompter, Sikama will read when it comes to the stats and how teams are doing this season.
38:31That's, that's all it is there. Minnesota, 5-0. How, Tyler, look at, finally looking good this season.
38:36Yeah, he's, he's so deadly with his legs. And he's always been that kind of guy when he's in space where he
38:43just, somebody put it today, I can't remember who, that he just exhausts defenses.
38:47Because he's so hard to kind of hem in when he's in space.
38:51And he just makes you cut over and over and over again to keep up with his quickness.
38:57And he wears people out. That's how he gets a lot of his rushing guard.
39:02It's not breaking tackles. It's not running over people.
39:04He just tires you out with his shiftiness. And especially in, you know, third and long situations or in high leverage situations,
39:11he has this knack for just getting the exact amount of yardage that he needs.
39:16I do wish as a passer, we could get him to throw over the middle more going into this week.
39:22The Vikings had the fourth highest rate of intermediate middle routes as far as the percentage of his dropbacks, fourth highest rate featuring an intermediate middle route.
39:30And yet he's thrown them at the lowest rate in the NFL.
39:34So that's still a thing, right? That was a problem in Arizona.
39:38We always talked about it. And it's still a problem in Minnesota.
39:41They're trying to get him to throw over the middle and he's just not doing it.
39:46But if all else fails, if you still have that mobility in your back pocket, it's a pretty good back pocket card to have.
39:54I think that what I was impressed with him today against the Saints was the way that he was going through progressions.
40:00I felt as though he was willing to hold onto the ball and where Kyler will scramble and, you know, he's not the tallest quarterback in the NFL.
40:09So sometimes he's got to, you know, motion to make sure that he can see everything that's going on in front of
40:16him, including the middle of the field. But he's able to go through those progressions.
40:20And I didn't feel like he was panicking while doing so.
40:24And that's why I felt like it was a really good performance for him.
40:28I think he is settling in to where his receivers are going to be, the timing of that.
40:33And it was always going to take a little bit of a time, but it's good to see he is getting better.
40:40And that week five was the best performance, I think, of his season there for the Vikings.
40:45I know we've done this every single week. We should talk about Justin Herbert again and just how sloppy this has looked.
40:52The fumbles were a problem once more. The inaccuracy, the decision making.
40:56Dude, the interception in the second half. I mean, again, it's...
40:59He's staring at the defender. He's staring at the defender.
41:02I don't know what to do, man. I don't either.
41:05It's bad. I don't know who this is. I know.
41:09But we're five weeks into the season and it still looks like this.
41:13I don't... Are they going to blow it up?
41:15I don't... Yeah. I don't even know at this point because, you know, if there was a...
41:21If there was a generational quarterback type of a prospect, right?
41:24If there was a Trevor Lawrence, if there was an Andrew Luck, right?
41:28If there was somebody like that who you were guaranteed at number one overall, the Chargers are going five and it still
41:35looks ugly for this team and they're extremely beat up by injuries.
41:38The offensive line that they tried it out there.
41:41I mean, I love that the young guys are getting experience, but my goodness, that's not a recipe to win football games.
41:48I mean, Herbert's been pressured on 43.8% of his dropbacks this season.
41:52Second highest rate among qualified quarterbacks and above his previous career high, which was 41.2 last season.
41:57So we already talked about all the different combinations of offensive lines that the Chargers have had and that part of it's
42:04not getting any easier for Justin Herbert, but he's also making it hard.
42:08It's almost like Herbert... I don't want to say he's giving up because that's not fair and that's not the words that
42:14I want to use, but it's almost like you could tell he's worn out.
42:19He's worn down. He's worn down of either playing in the offense that he was playing in last year, the pressure that he was getting.
42:26This year, it's no different. Now they're sitting here at 0-5.
42:30The vibes couldn't be worse. And again, going back to...
42:33If Arch Manning kind of had become the prospect that we thought that he was going to become, which he absolutely has
42:40not yet, maybe you'd think about blowing the whole thing up.
42:43I still... I don't think they're going to do it.
42:46I don't think they're going to do it. We have such a large sample size of Justin Herbert being great.
42:52I'm not ready to ditch it after five games and say...
42:56I'm not either because I want to be very clear because I saw people talking about this on social media.
43:02Justin Herbert right now, full contract, full context, everything.
43:04Justin Herbert's QB1 in this class. Not even close.
43:07Not in the... Justin Herbert's QB1 in this class.
43:10So... Yeah. I'm not saying that Mestermaker would make me move off Justin Herbert.
43:14I'm just saying in this class, like, that might be the best you're going to get is him.
43:20I think so. Maybe. Right? And so I'm still not moving off Justin Herbert.
43:24But I guess the question I want to ask is, is anyone else in the building safe?
43:29Literally anybody else? No. Not right now, certainly. You got a lot of season left to go, but right now, no.
43:36No, I don't think anybody's safe in that building.
43:39Also, just to kind of preempt the Broncos fans in the chat, who I know are vigorously typing right now.
43:45You can't just talk about one team here. Talk about the team that won.
43:49I agree. The defense was amazing in the second half.
43:52They were very good in this game. Yes. Ten pressures in the second half.
43:56Four sacks in the second half. We have talked over and over and over again about how this Broncos defense, when you
44:03get after halftime, they just turn into a completely new nightmare for opposing offense.
44:07They're great at adjustments. They're so good. Oh, my God.
44:11We talked earlier in the year about how some fans like to be like, where were the adjustments in the second half?
44:17And a lot of times, it's not really a thing.
44:20You maybe go about executing a game plan a little bit differently, but a lot of times, you know, you can go
44:27into a week and it's kind of like, hey, this is how we saw this team.
44:32This is how we're going to match up against this team.
44:35We got to execute it a little bit better.
44:38But the Broncos kind of feels like they have that good of a defense and that good of a defensive coordinator to be able to do it.
44:47Because that's what they did to Trevor Lawrence in week two.
44:50Mm-hmm. They switched up. They're like, all right, fine.
44:53We're going to play more aggressive. You're killing us against zone.
44:56Guess what we're going to do? We're going to play way more man in the second half.
45:01And it worked. All right. A few more games we want to touch on before we get out of here.
45:07Have to start with the Jets beating the Browns in dramatic fashion, right?
45:11This game had a little bit of everything. You had Garrett Wilson dominating early.
45:16He had like 70 yards on their first drive.
45:18You know, great broken tackle for a touchdown. But after that, really, this was the David Bailey game.
45:24I think it was the David Bailey game that everybody's been kind of waiting for.
45:29Nine pressures, including five quick pressures, three sacks in this game on 28 rushes, which was a 32.1% pressure rate.
45:35He even got a sack on a power move, which we weren't sure if he had that in his bag coming into
45:42the league because he was really more of a speed guy.
45:45First, I want to ask you, as our resident draft guru, where were you at on Bailey pre-draft?
45:50And did you think he had this in him?
45:53So I had Bailey as a top 20 player like everybody did.
45:57But I was a little bit lower on him because when I watched him at Texas Tech, his first step exposed to this is unbelievable.
46:05And I think that's one of the most important traits for an edge rusher.
46:09But I felt like he was kind of only that when he was in college.
46:14And it was so good that it just kind of feasted on a lot of the bad offensive tackles that he went up against in college.
46:22So this is a diverse game for him. And I think that this was his best game.
46:27From what I saw, this was David Bailey's best game because what he needs to do is, of course, convert that first
46:34step into power to round out his game a little bit more.
46:37And I felt like this was – there were some stats that people pointed to with him through the first four weeks
46:44of the season where I was like, kind of lying to you a little bit there.
46:49But this game, I think, was the most legit game from David Bailey so far in his career.
46:54Bengals, Dolphins. Dolphins have obviously started a ton of rookies so far this year.
46:59I would say with fairly positive results, all things considered.
47:02But they are still a work in progress. Very much so a work in progress.
47:06And sometimes you run into Joe Burrow having a Joe Burrow kind of day.
47:11Four touchdowns from him. This game, I think, is closer on paper than it was when I was actually watching it.
47:17But I still, every single week, I see glimpses.
47:20I see glimpses of what the Dolphins are building towards.
47:23I just acknowledge they're probably not going to win a lot of games, but they will be good TV, I guess, is
47:30the best way that I'll describe it. Like, they're not going to get blown out a lot because they do have a bunch of young, exciting talent.
47:38But they're probably a year away from being a year away.
47:41Yeah, the Bengals never dipped below 75% of a win probability from NGS in this game.
47:46Malik Willis just is not consistent enough. I think that there are moments, again, where you can see things from the Dolphins.
47:53But this is such a young team. They're playing so many rookies.
47:57And Malik just doesn't have that consistency yet. That it's hard to really see them beating teams of the Bengals caliber.
48:03But on the Bengals side of things, for as much as it is like, hey, let's play the Bengals.
48:09Big game. Big game on offense. I'm still kind of worried overall about this run game.
48:14Because where Samajee P. Ryan had 14 carries, 68 yards, 4.9 yards per carry average.
48:19Chase Brown, who they would like to be their bell cow back.
48:2213 carries, 39 rushing yards, 3.0 yards per carry average.
48:25And we're coming off of a week where they really struggled to get anything going on the ground at all.
48:32And even for a quarterback like Joe Burrow, with the receivers that he has at his disposal, you can't be so one-dimensional
48:38in this league and beat really good football teams.
48:41And so I'm still worried about that Bengals run game a little bit moving forward.
48:46Somehow we've gone this entire show without talking about it.
48:49So we might as well do it now. Commander's Giants.
48:52That ending sequence. There's no excuse. There's absolutely no excuse.
48:55I know Dan Quinn took responsibility. And, you know, Jaden took responsibility in his way.
49:00Even though in the presser he did say, yeah, it starts from the top down.
49:04But ultimately it's on me. I would have just said the second part of that sentence.
49:09Ultimately, it is on you. Like whether you get told over the headset, hey, let's spike this or, or, hey, let's throw a quick completion.
49:17Like whether they tell you to do it or not over the headset, you should just know to do it.
49:23Yeah. Like you're the one with the ball. So I, I, yeah, I don't like that answer in the presser.
49:29Either way, it was bad. It was just bad.
49:32I don't know how much speculating that I want to do over words that weren't actually said.
49:37But it does seem like a situation where I think Dan Quinn wanted Jaden to be a little bit more aware of the situation.
49:44And I think that Jaden was like, man, I'm trying to think of a million things.
49:49How do you not just like say that to me amongst the other things that you're saying here?
49:55And I think that it really, it, it, it did seem like there was a little bit of, okay.
50:01Yes. The majority of the time they were trying to take responsibility for, and they were like, no, no, no.
50:07It's on me. But they both let a little bit like Jaden said the thing about, yeah, it's a top down.
50:13And then Dan Quinn was answering a question and Dan Quinn was basically like, yeah, ball's got to come out.
50:19It's got to be a spike or it's got to be out.
50:23And he said it very confidently. And I don't know, again, I don't want to, I don't want to put words in
50:30anybody's mouth, but it was a situation where however we get there, it has to be better executed.
50:35And I, and I think that both of those guys are right when they do say it's on me.
50:41Cause I think that both of them obviously could have handled it better to not end that game the way that it is.
50:48Cause that's, that's pretty inexcusable that Washington didn't at least get a field goal off to try to win that game.
50:55Where does the buck stop though? In that situation, does it stop with the coach or does it stop with the quarterback?
51:02If you ask me, I think it stops the quarterback.
51:05I would say so too. Cause you're on the field.
51:08You got the ball. I think the quarterback's got to understand.
51:11I was a little surprised at how lackadaisical it felt with them.
51:15The way that they were taking all the time off the clock.
51:19I don't want to be hypocritical here because I talked about, you know, Philly needed to do a better job of that,
51:25but they had a little bit more control there.
51:28I wonder if Jaden in his head, just the way that they were operating things thought they still had a timeout.
51:34But even if he thought that you got, yeah, I think that he did as well.
51:39And I think that even with that context, you have to say, dude, you have to know that you don't have a timeout there.
51:47You are the quarterback. You have the ball in your hand.
51:50I think ultimately he has to know what to do with the football.
51:54I know he's young. I do. But these are the kind of situations that you look back on at the end of the season.
52:02And if you're a game away from missing the playoffs, or in this case, a half game away from missing the playoffs.
52:08And you think back to just the tiniest little thing, like either remembering that we don't have a timeout or just remembering to spike the ball.
52:16If we go an entire season, and that's the difference between making the playoffs and not, I would just be sick to my stomach.
52:24And obviously we're recording the show before Monday Night Football.
52:27And we got Rams-Bills on Monday Night Football. Huge game in primetime here.
52:31Brett, any overall thoughts on that game before it happens?
52:34I've said it before. I'll say it again. This is a game where we are going to see some astonishing throws.
52:40Truly astonishing throws. And also the dumbest turnover of the year.
52:44Book it. Guarantee it. We are going to see an abomination of an interception.
52:48Didn't we see enough already this week in Week 5?
52:51Haven't we seen enough turnovers? You know it's coming.
52:54I think that's a great way to preview this game because it's going to be must-watch television.
52:59Whether it's good or bad, it's going to be must-watch television either way between the Bills and the Rams.
53:05Appreciate everybody watching this reaction show. Man, a lot from this show.
53:09Game management stuff. Again, special teams. Teams forming their identities.
53:12Sometimes bucking some trends. Man, that's what it's all about.
53:15So we're five weeks into the season. We're learning a lot.
53:18We're having a lot of fun. We appreciate that you guys are here along for the ride.
53:23For the producers. Making it all happen behind the scenes because this is always a beast of a show.
53:29Every single time that we record it to get ready for the Monday release.
53:33Shout out to them. All of the great footage that they find for us.
53:38The stats. All that great stuff. Appreciate all of them doing that.
53:41For Brett Coleman as well. Trevor Sikama saying thanks so much for watching.
53:45We'll see you guys on Friday. Thanks for listening to our Week 5 Reaction Podcast.
53:50Listen to NFL Pro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.