Target These Second Year TEs ✅ 2026 Fantasy Football
STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.
1 hr 2 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jun 10, 2026
Published
Wed, June 10, 2026
28
Player insights
14
Players mentioned
Topics
Colston LovelandTyler WarrenGunnar HelmHarold FanninJackson HawesOronde GadsdenTerrance FergusonChigoziem OkonkwoColby ParkinsonElijah ArroyoGreg DulcichJa'Tavion SandersMason TaylorMitchell Evans
Player analysis
Player insights
Chigoziem Okonkwo
PositiveSleeper1:01
Chig Okonkwo is among the highest drafted late-round tight ends, indicating strong interest and potential upside.
Insight pageColby Parkinson
PositiveProjection0:56
Colby Parkinson had a strong season last year with 20 red zone targets and six red zone scores, making him a valuable asset in scoring situations.
Insight pageColston Loveland
PositiveBreakout0:23
Colson Loveland is on pace to be an all-pro player and is easily the best tight end in this draft class, reminding many of Travis Kelsey with his receiving ability.
Insight pagePositiveProjection0:29
Colson Loveland is projected for 6.5 touchdowns and almost 900 receiving yards, making him a bargain compared to other top tight ends.
Insight pagePositiveUsage0:49
From week seven to 17, Colson Loveland was the tight end six in points per game and averaged 64 yards per game after taking on a larger role.
Insight pagePositiveValue0:59
Colson Loveland is considered a great value pick in the fourth round, especially as a cornerstone piece for fantasy teams.
Insight pagePositiveValue0:59
Colson Loveland is being positioned as a vital piece of fantasy teams, particularly in the fourth round of drafts.
Insight pageElijah Arroyo
NegativeDepth Chart0:56
Elijah Arroyo's opportunities may be limited this season as he competes with AJ Barner for playing time, and his blocking skills remain a concern.
Insight pageGreg Dulcich
PositiveSleeper1:01
Greg Dulcich is also a popular late-round tight end pick, reflecting his potential value in fantasy leagues.
Insight pageGunnar Helm
PositiveRole0:23
Gunnar Helm is being drafted as a tight end 25, but he has shown inconsistency as a blocker and lacks significant yards after the catch.
Insight pagePositiveRole0:40
Gunnar Helm is expected to see an increase in playing time this season, potentially doubling his route participation from 38% last year, making him a near every-down tight end.
Insight pagePositiveValue0:43
Gunnar Helm is currently being drafted as the tight end 25, but there is potential for him to finish as high as tight end 16 based on opportunity and usage.
Insight pageHarold Fannin
PositiveBreakout0:21
Harold Fannin had the most receiving yards by a rookie tight end picked after 34th overall in NFL history, showcasing his potential to outperform his draft slot.
Insight pagePositiveRole0:28
With David Njoku out, Harold Fannin had a 25% target share in the five games without him, indicating he could be a critical piece of the Browns' offense.
Insight pageJa'Tavion Sanders
NegativeBust0:58
Jatavian Sanders is not living up to expectations as an athletic tight end, and there are doubts about his ability to perform.
Insight pageJackson Hawes
PositiveRole0:57
Jackson Hawes has shown some potential as a pass catcher, but his target share is expected to be very limited.
Insight pageNegativeRole0:58
Jackson Hawes is primarily viewed as a sixth offensive lineman with limited upside as a pass catcher, making him a low-priority fantasy option.
Insight pageMason Taylor
PositiveRole0:50
Mason Taylor is expected to be a solid inline blocker and has shown potential as a receiver, but his role may be limited due to the presence of Kenyon Sadiq.
Insight pageMitchell Evans
PositiveBreakout0:58
Mitchell Evans has the potential to emerge as a key player for the Carolina Panthers, especially if he can secure more snaps in 12 personnel.
Insight pageOronde Gadsden
NegativeBust0:30
Orande Gadsden struggles as a blocker, with a PFF rating of three positive blocks to 34 negative blocks, limiting his overall fantasy potential.
Insight pagePositiveProjection0:52
While Gadsden had a strong stretch in the middle of the season, his snap count is expected to drop below 60% with new additions to the Chargers' roster.
Insight pageTerrance Ferguson
PositiveProjection0:44
Terrence Ferguson had a unique statistical profile last season, averaging 18 yards per target, which is significantly higher than most tight ends, indicating his potential for big plays.
Insight pagePositiveDepth Chart0:49
Despite his potential, Terrence Ferguson faces competition from Tyler Higbee and Colby Parkinson, which may limit his opportunities this season.
Insight pageTyler Warren
PositiveValue0:19
Tyler Warren is appropriately priced with a ceiling to chase, making him a solid target in the sixth round despite a crowded tight end landscape.
Insight pagePositiveValue0:24
Tyler Warren is viewed as a solid value in the sixth round, with the potential for increased opportunity following the departure of Michael Pittman.
Insight pagePositiveRole0:54
Tyler Warren is expected to maintain a high snap count and be a key part of the Colts' offense, especially with fewer wide receiver options available.
Insight pagePositiveValue0:59
Tyler Warren is also highlighted as a valuable pick in the sixth round, indicating potential upside.
Insight pagePositiveProjection1:02
Tyler Warren had a top 10 rookie season and is projected to increase his touchdowns to eight and receiving yards to at least 1,000 this year.
Insight pageFull transcript
Episode Transcript
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0:45See you this summer. It's not hyperbole to say that a few of the names that we'll talk about today could define
0:51could define the entire fantasy football season. A whole new wave of tight ends is among us.
0:56Hayden, they are taking over the league out the unks and Travis Kelsey and Mark Andrews in fresh blood, new blood.
1:02And as you said, prior to us hitting record, this is an awesome group of second year tight ends.
1:07Yeah, it kicks ass. There's some potential absolute superstars at the top.
1:11And then even that next cohort of players, I think are going to be really quality role players with a chance to kind of blossom.
1:18Maybe not necessarily this year. There's some guys that are getting in the way, but long term, there can be some real receiving weapons out there.
1:25And you mentioned Kelsey. I think one of the guys at the very top really reminds me of Travis Kelsey, which is
1:31insane to say, but I think he's here to come.
1:34This is breakouts week. We've already talked about the quarterbacks, which was an also fascinating group.
1:39We have running backs and wide receivers either already up on channel that you can watch right now or coming here in the next few days.
1:46So this is the time for all of you to get ahead in your fancy leagues and the best way of doing
1:53that totally free hit that subscribe button and tune into the show the rest of the summer.
1:58Now, many of you are also going to say that two of the 10 most productive rookie seasons at Titan means that these players have already broken out.
2:06And that doesn't even include the Titan one that's being drafted from this class in your drafts right now.
2:11But I also think there's like a tick that these players can even reach even more than they put out during their rookie year.
2:18So we're going to include all the names, all of them here in this second year Titan breakout show.
2:23And we'll kick things off with Colson Loveland, who already being selected as the Titan three in the NFL right now, the 10th pick of the fourth round.
2:31What did you see when reviewing his rookie tape?
2:34I think Colson Loveland's on pace to be an all pro player.
2:37I think that he is easily the best Titan in this draft class.
2:41He's the one that reminds me of Travis Kelsey as a receiver.
2:44And I will not discredit what he does as a run blocker, which is to me very underrated.
2:50He can play the inline stuff. They have Cole commit as the other tight end here.
2:54They're going to have a third walking tight end.
2:57Colson Loveland moves like a wide receiver. And that's what makes him so special.
3:01He's fast. There was moments against it was Quay Walker on an out route, just runs right by him in man coverage.
3:07Kyle Duggar in cut right by him. Kyle Duggar is one of the most athletic safeties out there.
3:12Same thing with Clay Walker at linebacker. He'll run down the scene, catch passes yards after the catch wise bouncing off Bengals defenders for long touchdowns.
3:20And then I also think that he can get in and out of his breaks with that wiggle that we see with Travis Kelsey.
3:26I thought he had a really good connection with Caleb Williams in the scramble drill.
3:31There's one play where it was offsides. He knew that.
3:34Okay, now I'm going to run my downfield route.
3:36Caleb Williams is running to the right. He breaks off his route, goes back to the route right side for a long touchdown.
3:43On top of that, I was trying to find negative notes on the Colson Loveland film, and I really couldn't find them.
3:49And once he started playing the back half of the year, he was the Bears best skill player.
3:54I'm expecting that to be the case. Colston Loveland is too cheap.
3:58Every single time he's in the fourth round, I want to draft him.
4:01As you said, he was really eased into the lineup until about week seven.
4:05And then from week seven to 17, he was the tight end six in points per game.
4:10And he was our tight end one heading into last NFL draft, despite so much conversation being around Tyler Warren.
4:16And it's because, I mean, he makes you so multiple and versatile on offense.
4:20I mean, he gives you a numbers advantage on any given snap.
4:23And that means you can go, you know, gun four wide with him and empty also.
4:28And then he can be the full speed man in motion into a stack.
4:32Like you see with wide receivers, he moves like a wide receiver.
4:35But then what really gets you going is when you get into these heavier personnel groupings.
4:40And sure, that's what all the conversation has been all this offseason, all the NFL draft and will be this summer.
4:46But the Bears have already showed you sneak peeks of what they can do.
4:50And in those moments, he is the featured player.
4:52I mean, there's a 13 personnel look. Well, again, with shifts in motions against the Dallas Cowboys, he goes to the right side.
4:59Cole commit goes to fullback. Luther burden runs off the coverage on a pure vertical clear out level of the game route.
5:05And that opens up space for a 31 yard corner route.
5:08Then red zone three by one set down by three third down.
5:12You can also isolate him versus a cornerback. He just shoves them off and catches a touchdown easily into the heart of the defense.
5:19And it's not just these three tight end looks.
5:21It can also be two tight ends plus a sixth offensive lineman.
5:25I mean, you pair someone with like Colson Loveland with this size, this movement and a willingness to play with some power
5:31and strength to his game to attach to a mad genius.
5:34And Ben Johnson is just cooking up ways to accentuate a player like this.
5:38And there's a match made in heaven that gives us like, I'm not gonna say an unlimited ceiling here when it comes
5:44to tight end production, but a real out that is rare that the tight end is the most productive pass catcher on an NFL team.
5:52From week eight on he that was the first game when he had over 75% of the snaps.
5:57He was averaging 64 yards per game. He was the tight end for I'm tied in three expected points.
6:02That includes the playoffs and then including the last four games with the playoffs 97 yards per game.
6:0718.2 expected half PPR points. Remember, he is a 21 year old doing this.
6:11He's going to be 22 out there. So this is not some later breakout guy.
6:16This is somebody that's really young was supposed to be a baller and was easily the best bears pass catcher when all of the games matter.
6:23You just see this last four or five games of the season, including those playoffs was just outstanding stuff.
6:29So if you look at like the projections on underdog, those yards and those touchdowns, six and a half touchdowns, almost 900
6:35receiving yards, almost identical to what we have with Brock Bowers and then Trey McBride here.
6:39He just gets priced 20 spots lower than those guys.
6:42And that's where I think he becomes the bargain of the three.
6:46I really appreciate all three of these guys. I think they're the three best tight ends in football, assuming kills recovering from his injury.
6:53Colson Loveland is going to be an all pro.
6:55And I think that's going to happen as soon as this year.
6:59I don't love the running backs as we've talked about in round four.
7:02I do like a number of these wide receivers, but Colson Loveland here as a fourth round pick makes total sense.
7:08I mean, you can draft him easily as a cornerstone piece of your fancy team in a onesie spot where only, you
7:15know, one quarterback is being selected in these top four rounds.
7:18And I think have extreme, extreme confidence in it.
7:20Hopefully you all tune into the show that I did with Ryan Heath last week.
7:25We talked about how these personnel groupings funnel targets to premier pass catchers.
7:28Um, go and watch Colson Loveland's rookie tape and you see it.
7:32It is personified. It is exemplified in that because a lot of these heavier personnel, either 13 or 12 plus six offensive
7:38lineman stuff turns into just two main routes down the field.
7:41And one is a clear out. And then one is an over or some type of breaking route.
7:46And oftentimes the wide receivers, the clear out and Loveland is the one that is running away from coverage behind him.
7:52So these plays are set up for Colson Loveland to have success.
7:56And again, you can utilize him and change the formation and change the numbers.
8:00However you want to, it's just an uncommon pairing of fluidity and in strength.
8:04And it's uncommon underlying metrics that that produces too.
8:06I mean, Ryan pointed out that the bears had three tight ends on the field, which they have an even better three tight end set this year.
8:14Uh, with Sam Rausch involved, he averaged an absurd 4.66 yards per route run and 53% market share.
8:19Now that might only happen about 15% of the time this year and 13 personnel, but sure.
8:24That 15% of the time statistically is better than anyone else out there in the NFL.
8:29Yeah. And the way they, they use them in those three tight end sets is he's standing up operating as a wide receiver.
8:35So it's only like three tight end sets by name.
8:38He's moving like a wide receiver out there. I'll just really quick.
8:41If you want to turn on the saints game, just completely pancakes.
8:45Carl Granderson is like a 265 pound defensive end, uh, isolated.
8:48So the ground game, he's very, very strong down there.
8:51Uh, and he, this was him coming off of an off season.
8:54Remember where he had the draft was not able to participate because of a shoulder injury shows up to training camp.
9:00And that's why the first month of the season felt slow.
9:03Now we got an entire normal off season where he's not participating in the draft, not recovering from, from surgery.
9:09And you removed AJ Moore. And now Ben Johnson, who's the guy that drafted Colson Loveland top 10 has the foundation and
9:15the tape to be like, yeah, this guy's looks like a top 10 overall pick at tight end.
9:21So I'm really expecting Colson Loveland to lead the bears in all receiving categories this year.
9:25And I would not be surprised if this year's training bride, somebody that we know is very good at football that takes that next leap.
9:32I would not be surprised if Colson Loveland kind of reaches that tier.
9:36We'll put a pin in the Colson Loveland versus Luther burden conversation because the bears love having both, but you on your
9:42fancy roster almost certainly can only have one. Because they're about five picks apart there in, in the middle of the fifth round.
9:49I pose this question to Brian and I'll pose it to you after you went back and watch all the bear stuff.
9:55You know, we rarely see a team live out of 12 personnel or live in heavier sets and that be above a 50% mark.
10:02You mentioned that, you know, TJ Moore is gone.
10:05They did not replace him with really any semblance of a third wide receiver on this team.
10:10Do you think the majority of the bears plays this year will be out of these heavier personnel sets?
10:15Yeah, I've done the projections myself. I think around 50% would make sense.
10:19That's like 12 personnel plus 13 personnel together there.
10:21Plus six offensive linemen and two tight ends and all that stuff.
10:25Right. And I think the most important part, and we both posted clips on this, is that when he's in that, he's
10:31running his route 15, 25 yards down the field.
10:34Like this is not him leaking out. 31-yard games.
10:36Like back-to-back 31-yard games when it's out of, you know, heavier sets.
10:40There's Deacon Dunk. I'm in the flats tight ends.
10:42And then there's the Colson Loveland type, the George Kittles who are working way down the field.
10:47There's different levels of this play action stuff. And Colson Loveland is on the fun side.
10:52And like when you talk about red zone and those areas of the field too, like this play against the New Orleans
10:58Saints stands out to me where they show six and a pressure.
11:01So it's hat on a hat on the outside.
11:04And all he simply does is run out of defensive back, use his size two yards beyond the sticks on a third
11:10down play and just, you know, seamlessly picks up a first down.
11:14He can be, I think, more and more trusted in that area.
11:17I'm trying to pull up his red zone numbers this year.
11:20Yeah, I mean, he was only targeted only 14 times inside of the red zone this year.
11:25That's the same numbers like Aranda Gadsden, the same number as Jamiri DK, the same number as like Quentin Johnston this past season.
11:32And so, as you said, what really unlocked the Trey McBride ceiling was, you know, his quarterback actually targeting him and throwing
11:38him accurate footballs inside the 10 and inside the 20 yard line.
11:41And I think that's not just a volume thing, but also what we can get an outcome here where, you know, he
11:48doubles his red zone touchdowns from four last year to eight this season.
11:51Yeah. And to be clear, like Trey McBride stats are going to be almost impossible to replicate here just because everything kind of fell into place here.
11:59The Bears are going to be too good. There's too much competition around Colson Loving for him to like, you know, have
12:05that level of season, but just like on tape and like what they're providing for the offense, I do think is very similar.
12:12I mean, compare that Trey McBride last year, 32 targets inside the red zone, 19 catches, 10 touchdowns in that area.
12:18He's sweet. Okay. The next tight end in your fantasy drafts is actually also a rookie, but it is two rounds later.
12:24And that is Tyler Warren, the tight end for 65th overall, the fifth pick in the sixth round.
12:29What did you see? What were your takeaways after watching his rookie season stuff?
12:33Very clearly a quality player. He's 256 pounds. And there's some moments where he just looks way more athletic than somebody at that size.
12:40Like there was a couple of times where he is more of the leak amount, catch the ball and make somebody miss
12:46initially type rather than like winning with like true speed, though.
12:50He's not slow by any means. He's kind of a creative player that Shane Steik and I definitely very obviously was scheming
12:56up plays for as they should because he's that type of player.
12:59And then second to all that, he is a decent enough blocker.
13:03He's got a lot of mass. I thought that he was maybe a little bit overrated in that department, but because he's
13:09256 panels, he's not going to leave the field.
13:12So for fantasy purposes, he has the two skill sets where he's getting manufactured touches and he's not coming off the field.
13:18That gives him a tight end one floor. We saw that especially early on the season when he had Daniel Jones healthy
13:24for the first 13 weeks, 54 yards per game.
13:27He was the tight end six on tight end three usage during that span.
13:31Those last five games with Daniel Jones, he's playing through that injury only 41 yards per game.
13:36And then without Daniel Jones, that dropped to 30.
13:38So we have these crazy splits with Tyler Warren that we should care about.
13:42And then on top of that, they lose Michael Pittman, who operates in the same exact place that Tyler Warren does.
13:48There's less downfield stuff with Tyler Warren than we see with Colson Lovin.
13:52A lot of it's really within the first 10 yards.
13:55And that's really how he was used at Penn State too, where I thought he wasn't the greatest route runner.
14:01He was just so physically gifted and unique that you just keep scheming him the ball up.
14:05I don't see how that's going to change with the Colts.
14:09Like, I think they're just going to double down on that.
14:12I feel very good about him. I'm not going to rank Tyler Warren any higher than the tight end four with how everything is standing right now.
14:19But you could easily make an argument, and I would make one, that he might be the best value in terms of
14:26in the sixth round for what I think the opportunity he's going to have and how much that really can expand.
14:32And already as a rookie, how much he was a focal point of what the Colts want to do.
14:37Just from an individual standpoint, he is fearless. You know, he's strong.
14:41He absorbs contact. He wants to be the hammer after the catch too.
14:44I would say he's probably their best screen guy.
14:47It's what you pointed out with his yards after catching his fluidity.
14:50I mean, there were multiple times against the Denver Broncos where he made linebackers in space, just grab air and just totally whiff.
14:57It's not necessarily like the pop off the scream athleticism that you see with him.
15:01It's more that it's compact movements. And again, he just gets north and south.
15:05And I think he has a pretty nice feel for the position too.
15:09But what I love that Shane Sykin did was, you know, you motion into fullback or you insert through the line of scrimmage with him.
15:16There were tons of plays where he was like the chip and release guy where the momentum of the play on heavy
15:22play action was going in one direction. And he was the only pass catcher going in the opposite.
15:27Now, sometime was the a dot on that like two or three yards.
15:31Sure. But there were so many plays where three downfield routes were going to the right.
15:36And he was the only player going to the left and everything was designed for him.
15:40And just getting him on those gimmies, the, Hey, the ball is going to you on this play.
15:45And we can line you up in a whole bunch of different directions.
15:49And that was with the three plus wide receivers that they had on the team last year.
15:54And now you remove Michael Pittman, Jr. Tyler Warren, again, already has a top 10 rookie season from a production profile under his belt ever in NFL history.
16:02But, you know, it's 76 catches for 817 yards and four touchdowns.
16:05I can see the touchdowns going up to eight.
16:08And I can see the receiving yards going up to at least a thousand this year.
16:13Yeah. All that chip and release leak them out screen stuff.
16:16I think he was second or he was first in first downs on screens with eight of them and only trailed training
16:22bright in yards off of screens at the position.
16:25I think it's just like simply like he's just a pain in the ass to tackle 256 pounds.
16:30He can get his foot in the dirt just enough where he's kind of bouncing off guys.
16:35I think it's almost as simple as that. It's nothing like crazy.
16:38Like Brock Bowers after the catch. You're like, wow, like this is, this is remarkable stuff.
16:43Tyler Warren. It's like a tier below that, but still very effective.
16:46And then I think that as a route runner, I would put him more solid than elite.
16:51He talked about this in an interview that the number one thing he's looking for is he needs to have more speed
16:57and explosiveness coming out of his brakes. And I think if you went back and watched the tape, there was very few
17:03like ins and outs on his tape and slants where he was creating a bunch of separation.
17:08Like we said, all of this, not all, but a lot of the production is the man you more the manufactured touch variety.
17:15I still think that's, that's totally fine. But I do think there's a difference.
17:19And this is how we saw it as prospects.
17:22Colson Loveland out in like the real route is just operating at a different level than Tyler Warren.
17:27And that's totally fine. We don't have to compare him to Colson Loveland for the rest of their careers.
17:32Colson Loveland just might be that big of a freak.
17:35Yeah. I mean, I feel like you and I were fighting against the narrative that Tyler Warren was the clear cut tight end one entering the class.
17:43And so we spent so much time talking about Colson Loveland where I don't want that to overshadow in my mind, how
17:49good, how solid Tyler Warren was from, you know, week one of the preseason until the final week of the regular season of his rookie year.
17:56Because while, you know, it was a slow buildup a bit for Colson Loveland, Warren was an integral piece of his team
18:03from, you know, snap number one to the final snap of the season.
18:06You mentioned Michael Pittman and I did too. The Colts last year were top six in RPOs across the league.
18:12Michael Pittman, if I did the numbers correctly, was also top six in RPR targets across the league last year.
18:18And we've also seen that with other quarterbacks, not just Daniel Jones with like Anthony Richardson, for example, with the Colts too.
18:24Who are those going to go to this year?
18:27Not Alec Pierce. You know, that's not his game.
18:29He's also been injured all summer long. Josh Downs.
18:32Are we even sure that he's going to be out there in two wide receiver sets?
18:36That's not a hundred percent certain. Those are probably going to go to Tyler Warren and you can split them out in that same section of the field.
18:44They have enough, like at least tight end bodies out there too.
18:48And like, I'm not expecting his route participation to climb infinitely compared to these other second year lead tight ends.
18:54He was already tied in three and route participation last year at 84%.
18:57It could go up. I mean, he shouldn't come off the field at all.
19:01He also had the 11th most red zone targets of any wide receiver and tight end.
19:06And we know how there were long stretches of the season that the Colts offense was among the best in the league.
19:12So it does give me concern that if that drops down, then some of these numbers do have to climb up in
19:18order for him to like, you know, be awesome.
19:21But I really just want to hammer home how important he is to the scheme, to the system.
19:26And it's so clear that Shane Sykin loves this bully of a man that he already drafted.
19:31I think there's a couple underlying stats I think are positive regression candidates for him.
19:35They're both in just like the completion percentage world.
19:38He had the second worst completion percentage over expected among tight ends and then the third worst catchable target rate.
19:44So I don't think that was necessarily a Tyler Warren problem.
19:47I do think at the end of the season, he was getting a lot of volume that just had like no chance because of the quarterback play.
19:54And then I think when Daniel Jones was healthy, you can see that his efficiency really took a step backwards.
20:00Daniel Jones coming off of literally a torn Achilles to his right foot.
20:04Like that could be an issue here. Absolutely. But if that gets sorted out in other ways, I do think that there
20:10are some positive indicators that Tyler Warren could have a little bit better of a season than he did as a rookie.
20:16He he's one of these guys. I don't see him really busting at this ADP.
20:21And there's a lot of tight ends. I think like are appropriately priced without a ceiling.
20:25I think Tyler Warren's appropriately appropriately priced with a ceiling to chase on top.
20:29Totally agree with that. And also third and two against the Denver Broncos.
20:33I so win against Patrick Sertan and an outbreaker.
20:36Now, again, not necessarily routing him up, but it was kind of more bully ball, push you off and create a sliver of space on top of it.
20:44So, yeah, he's one of my favorite targets right there in the sixth round.
20:48I am drafting him a lot at this moment, despite, you know, that round right now being heavy.
20:53And I mean heavy in terms of quarterbacks and onesie position stuff.
20:56And there's also other players I want to chase like facial toot right now based on, you know, the buzz with the Jaguars and Parker Washington.
21:04I want to chase, you know, what he put out last year, too.
21:07But I feel confident in selecting Tyler Warren for the very reason that you said, just like the gimmies that he gets,
21:14the bluff blocks, the slip and releases, all that type of stuff.
21:17It's a it's easy production on a weekly basis.
21:20Next up, Harold Fannin of the Cleveland Browns. Just to put that in perspective, both names we talked about already were first round selections in the NFL draft.
21:28Harold Fannin, the 67th overall pick in the third round, but goes on to post 72 catches, 731 yards and six scores.
21:34So lots of overhaul redevelopment for the Browns this offseason.
21:37What are your expectations for him in his second year?
21:40I know Harold Fannin is a very good football player, so it really just comes down to how much all of the
21:46Browns overhaul, like you said, is going to matter for his fantasy.
21:49Just last year, though, do you want to hit what you just said?
21:53He had the most receiving yards by a rookie tight end picked after 34th overall in NFL history.
21:58The reason why it's 34th overall is because that was Sam Laporta.
22:02I think Sam Laporta and Harold Fannin share a lot of similar traits in that they're not necessarily the best inline guys.
22:08You can probably tinker with your offense to kind of hide them or use them in certain ways or, you know, just
22:14run the ball to the other side. But as receivers, these guys offer a ton.
22:19I think the trait that makes Harold Fannin so good at is when he breaks, whether it's after the catch or at
22:25the top of his route, he is exploding out of there.
22:28And I don't know if it's because his feet are all positioned outward and it's easier for him to cut outfield.
22:34But whatever it is, it's certainly working. I thought his yards after the catch stuff was really fantastic.
22:39I thought he had a lot of heart, even though he's very small for the tight end position.
22:44I do think that he at least really tried as a blocker on more of the movement blocks, not like the just
22:51down base blocks that you would see from an inline guy.
22:54That's like the big question that I have is I look up and down the roster on the Browns.
22:59They don't have one like the other guys that are behind him are also Harold Fannin types.
23:04And I know Todd Munkin. He's a very traditional guy.
23:07So that's where I'm trying to figure out this Browns offense.
23:10Is it six offense alignment? What are they going to do?
23:13All I know is when it's third and eight, the ball should be going to Harold Fannin.
23:18I really trust him. Let's put a pin in the blocking stuff because when I want to start with positives here with
23:24Harold Fannin and two, I think he's if he was on a different team, I'd be a bit more nervous about his
23:31playing time because he might have a true inline competition.
23:33But as you said, he doesn't on this roster.
23:36I mean, it's Blake Whiteheart and Joe Royer and Jack Stahl as the next three tight ends.
23:41Who are smaller types. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does make you wonder.
23:44It does make you wonder. Okay, put a pin in that.
23:47Let's go back to the lower center of gravity stuff because that's a big asset for him.
23:52He tries to get these hidden yards constantly. Like he shrugs off tackles.
23:56He ducks under them. He really fights on final contact to make those hidden yards like part of the offense and part of his game.
24:03And that helps on shorter patterns. And then, as you said, as the season went along, I thought, you know, Kevin Stefanski
24:09got a bit more respect and trust in him as more of like a bit of a downfield intermediate player.
24:15They did some out and ups and some leaks and some fake screens and some of that type of stuff.
24:21But at the same time, you see him matched up against linebackers and creating legit separation on that.
24:26So he is 100% going to totally outperform his draft slot.
24:29He's also incredibly young and already doing that in the league, which is, you know, very different than like George Kittle coming
24:35into league as an older prospect too. So, yeah, he is the only tight end on the roster and he is the
24:42most productive pass catcher really on the roster other than Jerry Judy.
24:45And you add a whole bunch of rookies onto it.
24:48So we are imparting a big opportunity and workload onto him.
24:51It's always not stressful, but maybe uncertain when new minds and new head coaches and new play cars come into that because
24:57they might have a different view of him. But in this case, I don't think you can have a different view on
25:04him that he has to kind of be a critical piece of this offense.
25:08And at least with Todd Monken, he was with Brock Bowers at Georgia and Brock Bowers, for as amazing as he is,
25:14he is a unique tight end that you have to, you know, like either deal with some of the blocking stuff.
25:20He got all the screens at Georgia. Like we talked about that with Ladd McConkie, that Ladd was doing more of the intermediate and downfield stuff.
25:28And Brock Bowers is the one that was racking up all these gimmies and all these screens.
25:32I would love for Fannin to get those. Yeah.
25:35And then since the Georgia days, he goes to the Ravens when you have Isaiah Likely.
25:40And I think that Harold Fannin is just like the way better version of Isaiah Likely or like with Mark Andrews, even.
25:46So there's at least in history with Todd Monken of like getting the best out of his tight ends.
25:51Harold Fannin does not turn 22 for another month.
25:54He's 21 still like even today, way, way after the season.
25:57Yeah. Like you said, the lowest center of gravity in the fight for it was just really outstanding.
26:02He had a route against Roquan Smith, just an out route, a little bit of a push off and just explodes right past.
26:09And there was a couple of screens, like third and 12 situations, throw the ball to him.
26:14There's four Raiders in the area. He's able to navigate it and fight.
26:17And then he had a dunk on you, touchdown in the red area.
26:21Like you said, as his ADOT kind of improved down the stretch there as well.
26:25So no David Njoku. I think that matters just as much as inserting Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston here.
26:31I do think there's a chance to Sean Watson's a little bit better than the quarterbacks that they had this last season.
26:37The new offensive line is like legitimately five starters out there.
26:40So there's tons of moving parts here. I do think that you can just take Harold Fannin being such a good football
26:46player is probably going to keep him in the tight end one mix.
26:50If he's like as good as we think, there's a chance that he like really outdoes this ADP.
26:55But at the same time, this is the Cleveland Browns.
26:58And I'm expecting things to go sideways. Todd Munkin in his past stop the last few years with the Ravens.
27:04We can bring up the Mark Andrews. We can bring up the Isaiah Likely.
27:08He also had Charlie Kolar. He also had Patrick Ricard.
27:11So these were multiple different types of tight ends and fullbacks out there.
27:14The Browns also among the other tight ends that I mentioned also brought in Michael Burton, who has played fullback with the Denver Broncos.
27:21So it's not the same types, I would say.
27:24Now, the primary is the receivers and Andrews and Likely.
27:27And maybe you can make a connection here with Harold Fannin.
27:30I say all that because some of the frustration that we've gotten over the last few years with the Ravens was that it was either Andrews or Likely.
27:38And then at times, Andrews couldn't get there because of his route participation and the snaps played and all that type of stuff.
27:44Again, just staring at the depth chart. I don't know how we can have that same concern here with the Browns.
27:50And that gives me more confidence because when I went watch his blocking stuff, Hayden, I had less confidence in him as a player.
27:57I thought he really struggled in a lot of situations as like a pure sixth hand in the dirt offensive lineman.
28:03One-on-one situations gets defensive ends. He had some tough assignments, but he failed a lot of them.
28:08I mean, Lucas Van Ness treated him like a little kid when blocking him one-on-one.
28:12He kind of stopped his feet on contact even versus linebackers and even defensive backs when blocking those fill players.
28:18Like, doesn't get a lot of push at the line of scrimmage.
28:22I thought he wound up on the ground way too often.
28:25Lost ground even when getting to the second level against linebackers.
28:28So, that in other situations can remove, again, some of route participation and snap shares.
28:32But based on the roster at this moment, I don't think we should have that concern.
28:37Yeah, there's no Miles Garrett. So, I mean, the Browns could end up in maybe some more fourth down shootout situations where they're just chasing.
28:44And here comes a bunch of Harold Fannin garbage time stuff.
28:47Yeah, there's definitely the blocking stuff. He's just a boy out there.
28:50I mean, that's just the reality of the situation.
28:53He's 240 pounds. I think he's pound for pound strong, but at the same time, mass matters.
28:58He's a movement blocker. You know, he's just not going to be an inline guy.
29:02And they were going to have to figure out exactly what they're going to do.
29:07I do think this is a team that might use like a six offensive lineman or something like that.
29:12There's going to be some way that Todd Monken is going to figure this out.
29:16I did hear Todd Monken talking up that fullback that they just signed as well.
29:21So, I know he's looking at this and being, all right, I've got my work cut out on how I'm going to make all of this go.
29:28So, by the way, in the five games without David Njoku, Harold Fannin almost had a 25% target share.
29:34That's only was only behind Trey McBride. So, there are some crazy on-off splits without David Njoku.
29:39I do think a lot of that kind of gets countered by the Concepcion, who we both like.
29:44Denzel Boston's a real player in the red area.
29:46So, yeah, it's impressive that Harold Fannin could be ranked this high, given the circumstances.
29:51But it's hard to push him much higher than this without getting really nervous about the Browns infrastructure.
29:56Totally agree with all that. Okay. There's a pretty large drop down to the next name, all the way down to the
30:0211th pick of the 12th round, and still being selected as tight end 16.
30:06That is Orande Gadsden, who was a fifth-round pick last year, 165 overall, was quite silent until week four.
30:11Excuse me, week six, where then he caught seven for 68, then seven for 164 and one, then five for 77 and one, then five for 68.
30:19And then outside of one or two games the rest of the season went incredibly silent.
30:24Yeah. So when going back and watching all of Orande Gadsden's stuff during his rookie season, can we solve this puzzle right now for the people?
30:31Yeah, he's really awesome as a receiver and then really terrible as a blocker.
30:35I mean, it's as simple as that. You know, like he's way worse than Harold Fannin as a blocker.
30:41I mean, so much worse. It's he's pretty much a wide receiver.
30:44Just to put some numbers to that, PFF charts positive blocks and negative blocks.
30:48And I don't always agree with the negative blocks, but Gadsden had three positive blocks all season long compared to 34 negative blocks.
30:55And it showed up when watching it. I mean, he can't reach block on the backside.
30:59And so those backside edge rushers then get tackles for loss on the front side.
31:03He whiffs on second level targets. He can't anticipate the linebackers and the safeties and all that type of stuff.
31:09He gets blown back when blocking defensive ends one on one.
31:12And then he also struggles to then pin those defensive ends in pin and pull situations.
31:17And then even when you tried to hide him with like the split flow stuff, they were just way too many whiffs.
31:23Whiffs. Anticipating when that defensive end was going to be.
31:26So it was like really rough. And that's frustrating because as Reeves pointed out, no tight end in the league across all
31:32years, average more yards per catch with 13.6 with as many receptions as a run that Gadsden did last year.
31:38But that shows you why they went out and signed Charlie Kolar, David and Joku, and also brought in Alec.
31:44Yeah, we see it the same way. Gadsden's just it's as much of a physicality issue as it is just an assignment
31:50issue, which makes sense because at Syracuse, he was basically in an air raid offense.
31:54He was in an air raid offense. He was in an air raid offense.
31:58Now, there's a reason why he had that role.
32:01And there's a reason why he had that role as a charger.
32:04He is a like almost like a very legit wide receiver just in a tight end ish body here.
32:10I thought he made as many spectacular catches down the field as anybody in this class.
32:14He'll go up and high point it. He's really acrobatic out there.
32:18Justin Herbert because he throws the ball on a freaking laser beam.
32:21So many times the ball is up and away and Gadsden can kind of track some of those things down.
32:27There was also moments where underneath in cuts where he has the fluidity and the ability to sink his hips and make those positive plays.
32:34He's got enough speed as well. I firmly put him in the Mike Gadsicky to Darren Waller type of tight end where
32:40I think there's a very real wide receiver here and a very real reason that he's probably not going to get as many snaps as we want.
32:48So like during that week six to week 11 run, Quentin Johnson missed some times.
32:52Keenan Allen was kind of hiding and then Gadsden was going crazy because the charges were in some shootouts.
32:58Even in that stretch, he had a 19% target share and he was still only hovering around.
33:03It was 75% of the snaps after the week 12 by week.
33:06They get more information. His snaps on average sink under 60% of the time.
33:10And that's before we have the two new additions here.
33:13So I think he's going to be at best a 50% snap player.
33:17The routes will be higher than that. He's going to have some spike weeks in basketball because he's awesome.
33:22The charges are going to be awesome. Consistency on a week by week basis.
33:26I don't believe that's going to be the case in redraft leagues for this year.
33:30Maybe in week six, send an offer for dynasty because he's awesome.
33:34He's attached to Justin Herbert long-term. Maybe they can figure this thing out.
33:38I think dynasty outlook looks better than the redraft one.
33:40Should he be going in the same round as Dallas Goddard?
33:44No, you just can't be. I haven't ranked 170 in half PPR right now.
33:48That's what, 27-ish spots after where he's going. I think he's going to have some moments.
33:52I just think we will be chasing them too often.
33:55Yeah. I don't know how he can go seven picks ahead of Chico Cuonco right now, who he probably compares to favorably.
34:01But Chig is in a situation where they arguably don't have a true tight end one who is coming now into a
34:08system who, you know, David Blau played under Ben Johnson, who utilized someone of Chico Cuonco size, like Sam Laporta in a lot of different various ways.
34:15And they don't have a wide receiver too on the roster.
34:18So I don't know if I've drafted a Rhonda Gadsden one time.
34:22Maybe that's a blind spot for me, but he's just not the type that I chase after when I'm doing this, you
34:28know, three late round tight end when we go from round 12 to round 18.
34:32And it's just because like, he's just not an every down player and even close to it.
34:37I mean, the chargers only ran the ball on 30% of the time when Gadsden was on the field last year.
34:43Mike McDaniel has been known to, you know, be obsessed with his rushing schemes.
34:47And that is why, like I put a reel out there on Twitter, very evident why they brought in these three other players.
34:54They're going to play just probably more than a Rondé Gadsden this year.
34:58Even if we're going to miss out on like one or two or three spike leaks this season.
35:03Yeah, they can use a fullback. They've got multiple running backs too.
35:06So I didn't think the general snaps here are going to be problematic.
35:10Where are you at with him just as a receiver?
35:13Because eventually we have to nail just how good of a receiving guy he is.
35:17He, he works almost in like the Kyle Pitts area where everything is intermediate downfield.
35:21Only 1% of his targets were screens. He's really like a operating as a wide receiver when he's out in the round.
35:28It's very much not the just I'm out in the flats, catch, check down, you know, like prime Jason Witten.
35:33It's a totally different ball game out there. I think he's pretty good at it.
35:38I'm not sure if he's Darren Waller good at it, which I'm hoping he's like, I think he's more fluid than like Mike Gasicki.
35:44So I'm hoping between Gasicki and Waller is kind of where I'm hoping for Gadsden, which would be a fun player with Justin Herbert long term.
35:52You know, Gasicki tested like a freak athlete, but he turns like a boat.
35:56You know, it's really tough for him to have these breaking routes, but he's straight line explosive.
36:01Gadsden is way more fluid. He's like way more in control of, of his frame and just his limbs and, you know,
36:07ability to stop and start and turn on a dime and, and all this type of stuff.
36:12I mean, the Waller thing is interesting because we know Waller played for Mike McDaniel this past season because of, you know,
36:18a coordinator on the roster had a history with Darren Waller and even Waller last season had some splits and had some games of like big time performances.
36:26And that was after taking a whole season out of football.
36:29I mean, right when he returned, he caught two touchdowns, then a 78 yarder and another touchdown the next week.
36:35I mean, he had six touchdowns in a six game span basically.
36:39So maybe they can turn a Rondé Gadsden into like a red zone weapon on top of it too.
36:44At the same time, you also have like Trey Harris.
36:47You also have Quentin Johnson. You have a bunch of different types out there.
36:51And I don't have the confidence that other drafters do that a Rondé Gadsden is going to be a 50% snap player on this team.
36:58I will say this. There's going to be weeks where on the show, I will be touting him because I think it's
37:04when the Chargers are going to be in a shootout.
37:07And all of a sudden they're in like pure passing situations.
37:10Gadsden is going to be out there and he's going to be effective.
37:14And like in those, we have to like target him because I do think he's going to be able to put up some big games.
37:21Jawan Johnson is another comparable where the Saints were kind of they didn't have enough like targets to kind of go around.
37:27And Jawan Johnson all of a sudden had a tight end one season on an offense that's not nearly as good as what we're hoping for the Chargers.
37:35So like just because the snaps aren't there does not mean I'm going to be totally out on Gadsden.
37:41I just want to like keep this thing kind of in check.
37:44And like it's what happened late in the season.
37:47And I think that should be like somewhat of our baseline projection here, like fully acknowledging that there are some goods here
37:53where I could see like a tight end 14 outcome for him.
37:57Two skill sets are on polar opposites of the receiving and the blocking was just downright atrocious.
38:01It was bad. But really no team is going to want to.
38:05It's like Eli Stowers. We just did this. I mean, I think it's even worse than that.
38:10I mean, it was so bad. And that's what this entire offseason has been about in the league is having people that you trust in those situations.
38:17Okay. Gunnar Helm is next. He's being selected as a tight end 25, the ninth pick in the 15th round.
38:23Hayden, this is the second most tight end that I've drafted this offseason.
38:27What did you see from Gunnar Helm? Plug your ears.
38:30I was expecting more as a blocker. I'll start there because he was obviously like the more inline guy versus Chico Cuoco.
38:36He's got decent enough size. He's like six foot five.
38:39He doesn't like feel like fully filled out in terms of his frame quite yet.
38:43And I did think that there were some times where he kind of got ragdolled.
38:47There's some times where he had some rookie mistakes.
38:50I'm hoping that he gets a little bit bigger and that, you know, the experience is going to help him out there.
38:56So I would not call him a great run blocker yet.
38:59There's a chance that he can turn into that.
39:02But in terms of the yards after the catch stuff, not a whole lot.
39:06I will give him credit. I do think that he has a nice like catch radius.
39:11And there were some plays by the sideline where he was going up and catching the ball.
39:15There was other times where he had to drag his toes and extend away from his frame.
39:20And I liked him doing that. I thought there were some times when the ball was low and he didn't really have the athleticism to adjust there.
39:28But I do think there's a kind of there's like crossing route up and out type of guy.
39:33Scrambled drill, come back to the sideline. I think that he can do that.
39:37So he's a he's a better athlete than when he broke his ankle in the combine running the 40 yard dash.
39:43But at the same time, he was the guy that sprained his ankle in the 40 yard dash.
39:48And I kind of felt that on tape a little bit.
39:51Don't get me wrong. I don't think that Gunnar Helm is one of these day three tight ends that has this massive ceiling and he's going to explode.
39:59But when you just take a top down view of this roster, the other tight ends on the team are Daniel Bellinger,
40:06who has a history with Brian Dayball, Kylan Granson, who, you know, has bounced around the league quite a bit, that there
40:12is a pathway for me that Gunnar Helm just simply explodes when it comes to just his opportunity and time spent on the field.
40:19He only ran a route on 38 percent of his dropbacks last year.
40:23I could see that easily double this season. He should be in every down, nearly every down tight end for this team.
40:29I didn't have the same concerns as you as a blocker.
40:32Like everything is just going to be a stalemate.
40:35He's not someone who's going to move anyone off the line.
40:38If it's just, hey, we're stuck at the line of scrimmage and I accomplished my assignments and the runner goes the opposite
40:44direction or cuts off me, then that's totally fine.
40:47That's all I want to do. Does he have the athleticism to shake defenders in the open field?
40:52Probably not. Is he explosive? Not really. But as you said, he does make tight window catches.
40:57He snatches the ball away from his frame. He sits in zones with subtle moves and makes himself pass friendly.
41:02And I think he utilizes his size in a bunch of ways.
41:06And so when we're talking about Dr. Franken signing these late round tight ends, he is someone that I really am attacking
41:12because I think it's kind of fitting that he's staying next to AJ Barner in drafts.
41:17Now, there are very different types because AJ Barner is a freak of a blocker, but it shows you that if that
41:23if you're on the field and all these sets, then you have a great chance of just simply catching touchdowns when you're on the field.
41:30And I think Gunner Helm has a chance of doing that.
41:33I think he definitely has a chance to do that.
41:36I think, like you said, the ceiling is pretty low here, especially in the Titans offense.
41:41It really kind of comes down to is Wandale going to be a guy?
41:45Is Calvin really going to be a guy? Carnell Tate?
41:48Because if he is like the fourth guy in the pecking order for targets, which is how I would project it.
41:54I think it's a little bit difficult to get there, even if he's kind of an every down player.
41:59And I would not discount, you know, Dayball and Bellinger, you know, like that.
42:03Just like I can see this one kind of sneaking in there a little bit here.
42:08Yeah, there was one chart that I had where it was catchable ball rate in EPA per target.
42:13He quietly had a really high catchable ball rate, which like caught me by surprise because, you know, like all the other Titans did not have that.
42:20And he just did like very little with that.
42:23And I think that's just like I think the lack of wiggle out there in general.
42:28So Barner, I think like my like Greg Dolcich, I think offers more of a receiving profile than Gunner Helm.
42:33If I'm going to take me like dart throw.
42:36I don't really see Dolcich in him as comparables because Dolcich was like purely a receiving type.
42:41Just an ADP. It is blocking. OK, yeah, this is more just like ADP.
42:45I just need someone who I think is going to like be on the field enough and catch enough passes.
42:50And there's like nobody that Dolcich is competing with where I think that Ridley Wanda Robinson and Cardinal Tate is light years
42:57better than what the Dolphins are kind of dealing with.
43:00So it's not that Gunner Helm is like the worst pick ever.
43:03I just think like if he starts picking up steam here, I would get back to the tape.
43:08Everybody come back to me and make sure that you want to really double down on this.
43:13Well, I mean, again, we're talking about the 15th round here.
43:16So I know I'm gushing. This is optimism, but we're also, again, having it in the context of who he's being drafted
43:22around, you know, Nick Singleton, the fifth round rookie running back on his own team is being selected.
43:28Not our favorite three picks later earlier in the round is Aaron Rodgers, Isaac Tesla, you know, like the Titans in this
43:34round are Dalton Schultz and AJ Barner. So he's very fitting here.
43:37And I just think from people maybe underrating his skills because of how little he played last year, there is a chance
43:44that while he's being drafted to the tight end 25, he finishes like the tight end 16.
43:48Like where AJ Barner finished last year. All right.
43:51Yeah, I see a little bit differently, but that's that's why we have a podcast.
43:55Okay, let's keep the podcast going because next up is one of the more eye popping statistical profiles last year in the league.
44:02Like Terrence Ferguson is the 11th pick in the 17th round, still the tight end 31.
44:06Now this is on the Rams who still have Tyler Higbee, still have Colby Parkinson.
44:11They added Max Claire in the draft, but Terrence Ferguson had 31 targets last year.
44:15Hayden 15 of them were 20 plus yards down the field.
44:18What did you see when watching my guy T Ferg?
44:21You can say this is like the most unique tight end season, like of all time, if you wanted to just because
44:27it was 18 yards down the field. Like you said, 18 yards.
44:31I mean, the next closest if you hit the right thresholds here was Darren Waller.
44:35He was at 10.3. He almost doubled him up.
44:38And the way that he would play, he was not often in one or two tight end sets.
44:43So he was in like the three, three tight end sets.
44:46And then he was operating as like the downfield clear out guy.
44:49And on occasion work all the way back on the corner route where Matthew Stafford hit him wide open for a touchdown.
44:56So it was as unique of a profile as you can get.
44:59The reason why Sean McVay uses him in these ways.
45:02And by the way, he also like third and five.
45:05He would be the tight end that would be out there.
45:08There's like, that's a pure receiver. It's because he can run like the wind.
45:12And like, that's where he's just trying to find the mismatches way down the field.
45:16He's like, all right, you're in base personnel. You're the third linebacker on the team.
45:21Especially because like the 49ers without Fred Warner. Like we're going to guys that probably shouldn't even be in the NFL.
45:27Let's send Terrence Ferguson down the seam and see what happens.
45:30My question is, was there anything else that got you fired up?
45:33And is anything, the second part is even bigger.
45:36Has anything changed? Because they re-signed Tyler Higbee this offseason to multiple years.
45:39Colby Parkinson's, I think, really actually a pretty solid player for him.
45:43Has anything actually changed here? Okay, I'm fired the fuck up about Terrence Ferguson.
45:47Okay. And sure, it might not happen this year.
45:49But we can also be sitting in the same exact spot next offseason.
45:53And we could be looking at just the 12 personnel duo of Terrence Ferguson and Max Clare pretty easily.
45:59And that's extremely exciting for a team that is going to love running these heavier personnel sets.
46:03But just from this season, okay? In a way, and stick with me here, he kind of replaced Tutu Atwell last year
46:10in terms of like target distribution and the areas of the field that he attacked.
46:14Correct. You asked me what else gets me going about him.
46:17He gets after it as a run blocker. I really think so.
46:21Like he drives into defenders. He plays until the whistle.
46:23He works down the field. He goes from, again, stop to start.
46:27He wants to get after it in that area.
46:29And he is so explosive. Like he might reach that moves differently tier when just running in a straight line down the seam and getting vertical.
46:37So if we get more production this season, it could come in this one area.
46:41What if Colby Parkinson, who has dealt with a ton of injuries, who is 27 and a half years of age, who
46:47is not as explosive here as Terrence Ferguson? What if he either gets injured or is on a decline or something like that?
46:54Last season, Colby Parkinson was among the league leaders in terms of red zone targets.
46:58It's I mean, the only players with more red zone targets last year.
47:02George Pickens, Jamar Chase, Hunter Henry, Jake Ferguson, Christian McCaffrey, Devontae Adams, Trey McBride, and Amon Rossian Brown.
47:07That's it. He had 20 red zone targets and six red zone scores.
47:11So if I'm just looking at this, could we get to a point where it's Tyler Higby, Terrence Ferguson, and Max Clare?
47:17Like Max Clare is the weird part about this.
47:20If he wasn't added, then I could make the stronger case for T-Ferg.
47:23But just another year in the system, I do wonder if maybe he absorbs some of those high value targets.
47:29He has to, to like even get on the radar.
47:32I mean, he caught seven receptions, including the postseason, in one or two tight end sets.
47:37In three tight end sets, he had five receptions.
47:39So like he, he has to do that and then do more is what my point is.
47:44After sitting here, nothing against Terrence Ferguson. I think he's a totally fine player.
47:48He's an exciting, unique player. I enjoyed what Sean McVay was cooking.
47:51We have to start drafting Colby Parkinson. I mean, Colby Parkinson, there's a reason.
47:55Do you know why he's probably a red zone threat?
47:58Is it because he's like six, nine? That's maybe the reason why, you know, he's a big guy.
48:03He can block. He was doing the play action out in the flat stuff.
48:08Colby Parkinson was the tight end 17 last year.
48:10It goes undrafted. Look, it's not the most exciting pick.
48:13Colby Parkinson on a just pure baseline outcome definitely projects better than Terrence Ferguson.
48:17If you want to sell me on the 95th percentile outcome being better for Terrence Ferguson, by all means, go for it.
48:23And in basketball, I understand that's what we're somewhat trying to do here.
48:27But Colby Parkinson is there for a reason. And then it was I kept going back to the Tyler Higby contract, and
48:33I could not believe he got another two year extension this offseason.
48:37It feels like every single offseason he's getting a two year extension.
48:40I kind of like Max Clare on top of that.
48:43Davis Allen has been around the program for a while, so I don't know how they're going to sort this thing out.
48:49I just got nervous. I'm like, OK, Sean McVay has a like pathway to get Terrence Ferguson the ball.
48:55There will be a couple long touchdowns. They will be very fun.
48:58I'm a little bit nervous that we're going to end the season with 19 receptions, and I'm not sure if I want to sign up for that.
49:06Again, I'm sure Sean McVay reviewed all the tape after the season.
49:09He saw what Terrence Ferguson put out there with his athleticism.
49:12Again, in my eyes, his willingness and competitiveness as a blocker.
49:16Why do you think then that he leaned to it even more and drafted Max Clare?
49:20Because this is one of those players that if Max Clare wasn't on the roster, then I would get very fired up
49:26about Terrence Ferguson and the leap that he could make.
49:29I don't know. I don't know what happened in the draft.
49:32They spent a pick on a backup quarterback and then the tight end four on the roster.
49:37I don't know why they did that. Colby Parkinson is totally like a very totally fine NFL starter.
49:42Higby is obviously aging, but they for whatever reason love him.
49:46And then to think Ferguson did enough, like we said, reviewing the tape.
49:49I will say Ferguson did not come down with a couple contested catch situations.
49:53I was kind of on my nerve a little bit now.
49:56Contested catches are a little bit different when they're 35 yards downfield.
50:00Those ones are a little bit harder to corral than like an eight yard hook where the linebackers are coming over the top.
50:06But there was a couple of explosives that he did not come down with for a variety of reasons.
50:12So that's nitpicking. I just think I was like, all right, Colby Parkinson is going to be out there a lot unless Terrence Ferguson eats his lunch.
50:20And that's possible. I just don't think it's like the more likely outcome here.
50:24Okay, let's move on. The next three names that I'm going to bring up were are not being drafted in fancy leagues out there.
50:30Everyone knows the New York Jets selected Ken and Sadiq in round one.
50:34That was after taking a round two player in Mason Taylor, 42nd overall, just this past offseason.
50:39Jason Taylor's son. I wanted to bring his name up because we're not expecting a whole bunch of receiving production.
50:45But at the same time, you know, this team also has three wide receivers on the field.
50:50So what are you expecting the balance of Ken and Sadiq and Mason Taylor to be after rewatching Mason Taylor's rookie year?
50:56I thought Mason Taylor was a pretty solid player in general.
50:59I thought he had maybe the best blocking tape out of all of the guys that we were talking about.
51:05I thought he really got after it. I could put like him, like Colston Loveland, maybe as like the top guys here.
51:11But I thought he was actually pretty effective at it.
51:14He's got great balance and then athleticism. So like any of these like second level blocks, he can really handle.
51:20And I think he's got a lot of power for like as an inline guy, given his size.
51:25He's not 260 pounds here, but he's 251. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's a little bit bigger than that.
51:31So I thought he totally passed the test as a blocker.
51:34He's got a future being an inline guy. Made me a little bit nervous for Kenyon Sadiq that like Mason Taylor can
51:40sit out there and block a lot. In terms of receiver, I think that he's, you know, on, you know, he's Dalton Schultz.
51:47Is he Jake Ferguson? He's not clearing that. Yes, it's that.
51:50He's, I think, very reliable. I didn't see him making a lot of mistakes.
51:54I did think that he had a couple times beating linebackers to the first down marker, which I thought I saw in college as well.
52:01There's nothing really flashy beyond that. I thought he had some tough grabs over the middle, but it was definitely more on
52:07the lower ceiling tight end in terms of receiving stuff.
52:10But did feel like somebody that if we didn't have Kenyon Sadiq out there, I think on tape review, I'd have been
52:17like he's on pace to be a second round tight end, not Sam Laporta, but just being like an effective player.
52:23But now he's got, you know, multiple first rounders to deal with.
52:26It's interesting. I think I could use all the words that you brought up and you spun it in like a positive way.
52:33I think I could use all the same words and kind of spend it in a negative light too.
52:38Yeah. Whereas like what's a standout trait to me?
52:41I didn't find one. He's like very physicality ish.
52:43Yeah, he's, he's very vanilla. I mean, even as maybe we just disagree on his blocking, like he spent a number of
52:49snaps as the move slash H back guy in a two point stance this past season.
52:54Now obviously he's expected to be the primary inline guy, but I didn't see someone as consistent or dominant as a blocker
53:00that if Kenyon Sadiq, despite being a smaller player shows competence there, that will then keep Sadiq off the field.
53:06Now that's what they want to do, right? This is the 12 personnel looks that they want Mason Taylor to grow into.
53:12I just think overall he's an extremely replaceable talent.
53:15And while I liked him as a fluid player, uh, the fluid, he shows up more in the routes, but not after the catch.
53:22I mean, he's just not a yak threat at all.
53:25He falls down without anyone touching him. He doesn't stay up through contact.
53:28It just looked like above average to average athleticism.
53:31So, uh, yeah, he's just now I've, I've said Kate Otten has been replaceable in the past and no one has replaced him for many years too.
53:39So, uh, these guys kind of hang around. They, they, they didn't spend a first round, you know, top for the overall selection on Kenyon city.
53:46If Sadiq is Vernon Davis, then we will not be talking about Mason Taylor often.
53:50If Kenyon Sadiq, you know, is Noah Fant, then I think then Mason Taylor will be annoying is kind of where I'm at here.
53:57Like he, he, if we were redrafting it, I think he would go definitely go after Harold Fannin.
54:02Uh, but I do think he would go ahead of Elijah Arroyo and those types.
54:07And I would not be surprised if he's like a late second rounder after kind of watching him.
54:12I just think the upside cases, I think are a little bit hard to sort out, especially what they did with the draft here.
54:19Okay. Let's talk about Elijah Arroyo since you brought up his name.
54:22I mean, this show last off season made me watch AJ Barner more than I was anticipating.
54:27And it made me bring up AJ Barner's name in a big way, all off season.
54:31And especially when Noah Fant got cut, uh, I said, Hey, pay attention to AJ Barner.
54:36He's going to be out in the field. And my mentions were filled with no, you idiot.
54:41It's Elijah Arroyo season. Uh, now those people weren't the only ones saying that.
54:45Do you remember John Schneider saying that someone, the staff believe that, uh, he could play X wide receiver.
54:50Uh, now the Seahawks know a thing or two.
54:53They just won the fricking super bowl, but that was the most pointless statement of all time.
54:58So do you think there's a pathway for Elijah Arroyo to play more this year?
55:02Um, maybe a little bit more, not enough to be fantasy relevant.
55:05I mean, I think Barner is like teetering on like you're doing top, top 10 ish tight end the league, like all around.
55:12So I think that's going to be a problem and Arroyo can really run.
55:16And there were some elements of that on his rookie tape.
55:19It just happened on such low volume, but there was some times where it's very clearly, Hey, we just don't think that
55:25this linebacker can keep up with Arroyo. And usually they were right on that.
55:29It was just, there's very little in between that in terms of, you know, the blocking reps or getting out into the
55:36flats and like more underneath manufacturer touches. It's more like, Hey, we just believe that he's faster and let's use them in that capacity.
55:43Now, if the Seahawks aren't quite as good this year and they're just throwing the ball, uh, more times per game because
55:49they're not blowing everybody out like they did last year.
55:52Then sure. Like the, the overall depth chart here is not so outrageous beyond JSN that somebody else could kind of creep up.
55:58Um, I would guess that's just going to be AJ Barner.
56:02So I kind of want to double down on your take from last year where AJ Barner to me is like the late round tight end this year.
56:10He's not going that late, but I do think he's really good.
56:13I do think that the depth chart in general in Seattle is up for grabs and I would be, you know, betting on AJ Barner winning out.
56:21Arroyo just didn't play enough last year. And it's to the point with me that he has the same issues as a
56:27run blocker that he did at Miami where he's just a waistbender.
56:30That if you move out of the grass for him, then he's going to lose.
56:35He's going to let go of his latch that like, if something happened to AJ Barner, one, I think Seattle's offense would take a step back.
56:42And then two, I'm not certain that Elijah Arroyo would just step in seamlessly.
56:46Yeah. Committee. They might trust Eric Saubert to do that a little bit more than, than Elijah Arroyo.
56:51Like he can be a fun role player, but even as a pass catcher, he's a notch down from a Ronda Gadsden, for example.
56:58Like he might just be a notch down from a Ronda Gadsden overall, unless he takes, and there is a chance that he is.
57:05And, you know, makes a leap as a run blocker.
57:08I just didn't see it at all from his rookie season.
57:11Yeah. I think there's a chance. I mean, he's, he's got like 15 pounds on a Ronda Gadsden as a comparison there.
57:17I, he's, he's definitely just straight line speed is the calling card.
57:21And then everything else is in development. And then with AJ Barner, he's not as fast as Elijah Arroyo, but he's very good at everything else.
57:28So I don't think there's a Wally pipping that's going to happen here.
57:32It's going to be Asia Barner first. And then Elijah Arroyo on like, you know, and, and pick them not for, you know, redraft.
57:39Okay. Two more. One, Jackson Hawes don't need to say much.
57:42He really is a six offensive lineman. You can catch a few extra passes.
57:46And it's to the point where the bills were among the league leaders in terms of six offensive line use.
57:52And once they drafted Jackson Hawes, they just stopped doing that and ran more tight and set.
57:56So, you know, we talk about players progressing as blockers, but not necessarily progressing as wide receivers and pass catchers.
58:02I'm not sure if there's a lot of upside for Jackson Hawes to progress as a, a pass catcher here.
58:08There's not, but he did have like three catches, like 30 yards down the field where it was just like, Oh shit, there he goes.
58:15Uh, uh, and you know, Josh Allen could put it on the money down the field.
58:20So like he could have five touchdowns in a season.
58:22Like I would not put that past him. Is he going to be a target share guy?
58:27Absolutely not. And the final one is Mitchell Evans of the Carolina Panthers.
58:31Uh, I think we both really enjoyed him coming out of Notre Dame.
58:35Just a very solid player was a mid fifth rounder.
58:38Uh, and then immediately comes in and kind of makes his mark like the, he's better than Jatavian Sanders.
58:43Yes. Like I just am never buying into this Jatavian Sanders stuff.
58:46He's, you know, billed as an athletic tight end, but then show me the athleticism.
58:51It's just not there. So Mitchell Evans to me at the very least is, you know, out there in 12 personnel, but
58:57one time we tremble misses time or two. If Mitchell Evans takes the next step, I could see him playing the most
59:03snaps of all tight ends on the Panthers roster.
59:06I thought Mitchell Evans showed a lot of like compete.
59:09I think that he needs to kind of fill out his frame, just maybe a little bit more for being the type
59:15of player that he wants out there and like not necessarily super reliable yet.
59:19Uh, he was dealing with a bunch of injuries in college.
59:22I wouldn't be surprised if one of these years he's like clearly viewed as an NFL starter.
59:27I'm not sure if we're chasing that much of a ceiling, but I think on like the craziest deep dynasty leagues, like
59:33he absolutely should be on people's radars. Did I miss anyone?
59:36Anything else you want to say? I mean, this is a man.
59:40An awesome group. It really was. Yeah. We were debating, we're like, all right, we want the Tuesday show to be a
59:46little bit lighter because we know we have running backs and wide receivers.
59:50And when we realized how many tight ends there were, we realized the tight end group is about as deep as the wide receivers were straight up.
59:58Yeah. And again, we are asking you to make Colson Loveland a vital key piece of your fantasy team in the fourth
60:04round or Tyler Warren in the sixth round. And so we wanted to spend some extra time on those picks.
60:10That's for sure. Because drafting the right tight end just gives you like a natural advantage every single week in your fancy
60:16lineups compared to your friends frustrations of when they are, you know, picking someone up from the waiver wire and drafting him
60:22just because he caught one touchdown on one catch the previous week.
60:26Yeah. After doing all this research, like looking at these guys, kind of the breakout candidates, it still makes me just want
60:32to draft the top 12 guys and not, I'm just struggling to find like the quality late round guys that we had in previous years.
60:39Some of the guys that we mentioned is just like, was not getting me fired up enough.
60:44Okay. I'll do my preview real quick on the Dr.
60:47Frankenstein late round three tight ends that I have been doing.
60:50And it's, it's really disgusting. We'll do a Titan sleeper episode here in a couple of weeks.
60:55Uh, mine, I think my most frequently drafted one has been if we count Dallas Goddard, he's in there, but if not.
61:01Chig Gunner Helm and Greg Dulcich are three of my highest drafted late round tight ends.
61:06I'm done. That's what I'm talking about. All right, everyone.
61:09Thanks for tuning in. Shout out to a producer Weaves and Mosho behind the scenes.
61:13Again, we have running backs and wide receivers coming up.
61:16If you enjoy this episode, help us get to 175,000 subscribers.
61:19If you have made it this far, leave a thumbs up, a like on this video.
61:23So more and more and more people can see it.
61:26We are on the road to 200 K. The only people that can get us there is you up the villa.
61:32Talk to y'all soon. See ya.
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