Target These Second Year QBs ✅ 2026 Fantasy Football
STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.
52 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jun 9, 2026
Published
Tue, June 9, 2026
4
Player insights
2
Players mentioned
Topics
Cam WardKyler Murray
Player analysis
Player insights
Cam Ward
NegativeProjection0:02
Cam Ward is currently being selected as quarterback 22, but his rookie season statistics were concerning, ranking him near the bottom in multiple categories including EPA per dropback and passing success rate.
Insight pageNegativeInjury0:15
Cam Ward suffered a right ac joint sprain in the final game of the season but avoided surgery, which may impact his preparation for the upcoming year.
Insight pageNegativeRole0:41
Ward's performance was hindered by a poor offensive line and lack of talent around him, leading to doubts about his ability to improve in year two.
Insight pageKyler Murray
PositiveValue0:42
Kyler Murray is viewed as a strong pick in the same round as Tyler Shuck, with the potential to easily win the starting job with the Vikings due to his rushing threat.
Insight pageFull transcript
Episode Transcript
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0:43is an important episode I mean, last year you saw that quarterbacks took massive leaps in from year one to year two
0:49And that bore itself out in terms of fancy points I mean, Drake may finish as the quarterback two in points per
0:55game after being drafted as the quarterback 13 Last September, Caleb Williams, the quarterback eight in points per game after being drafted
1:02as the quarterback 14 And conversely And conversely, Jane Daniels drafted as the quarterback three finished a, you know Up down stop
1:08start year as the quarterback 17 in points per game So that's going to talk about here today The year two breakouts
1:14at quarterback Four names Hayden and three guys locked into their starting jobs And one who probably will draw a few starts
1:20this year too Perhaps so Well, it depends on how you would grade those starts from last year But I think what
1:26you said just throwing out some of those quarterbacks There was very clear narratives and about the rookie seasons that you had
1:33to make the argument Is it going to get better?
1:36Or was that just kind of the baseline for what there is?
1:39That's that was Caleb Williams in the sacks That was Drake may just being playing a little bit quicker and then using
1:45his legs a little bit more accuracy All those type of things were like, yeah, you can see the potential.
1:51Are they going to hit it? Is there something about the college profile to the growth to the rookie year?
1:57There's a lot of little things we have to kind of nitpick And I think these guys in this next crop of guys.
2:03They have a lot to work on harp on that point a little bit more So often once we see these college
2:09quarterbacks in the NFL Their rookie season almost anchors the opinion on what it is for the remainder of their rookie contract
2:16And so we're going to talk about that opinion that we have from them not just as prospects But as rookies and
2:22then what can improve and what might not and for me, I know so much of the improvement Or scaling down a
2:28bit can come from the environmental change. So we'll factor all those in here today So we're not going to go by
2:34ADP order where these guys are being drafted on underdog right now By the way, we're going to do that when we
2:40talk about tight ends running backs and wide receivers the rest of this week In our year two breakout week instead We're
2:47going to start with where these guys were drafted in the actual NFL draft So let's kick things off with cam ward.
2:53We know the first overall pick in the 2025 NFL draft Right now being selected as quarterback 22 with a fourth pick of the 12th round.
3:00What did you see when reviewing? I'll say it all of cam ward's dropbacks during his rookie season very up and down
3:07I really hope cam ward turns out to be a guy because the arm strength is it's a tier stuff And there
3:13was some ridiculous throws both in structure and out of structure rolling to his right rolling to his left And you can really whip it in there.
3:20He's kind of an old school gunslinger type And he's got the arm talent where if this thing clicks then you're gonna
3:27have a fun quarterback Unfortunately, there's not a single statistical argument in favor of cam.
3:31We're talking about qb 38 and e paper drop back 39th and passing success rate 40th in catchable ball, right?
3:37A ball rate that was out of 41 Qualifying quarterbacks Caveats are the offensive line was bad.
3:41The scheme was bad. The receivers were even I would say worse than the other two factors in there Things got a
3:48little bit better, but it's not fixed for cam ward And I think I have some issues just based off his own
3:54tape where he really has to progress here Not just to be like a good quarterback.
3:58I think there's a lot of progression that needs for him just to even be an average quarterback in the nfl right now Interesting.
4:05Uh, he was selected as the number one overall pick.
4:08He did not play Statistically as you said like you want the number one overall pick to do, but I would say
4:14my Observation my belief in him is kind of unchanged of who he is as a player and how he needs to
4:21win in the nfl as it was with him Entering the league.
4:24We we talked about it. He you know just has a Dynamite arm and you see it on definitely these like posts
4:30and and corner routes that these sideline passes that to me He throws with anticipation to layer it in on these intermediate
4:36and especially downfield passes Uh, they can come from awkward angles, but man the the loft the trajectory the velocity it pops
4:43out of his hand Is a lot of fun, but then like you said you look at the underlying numbers Uh bottom
4:49seven epa per drop back since 2016 among quarterbacks also in that time frame only deshaun kaiser had a Lower success rate, but you know me hayden.
4:57I like to factor in The environment that he played in and boy.
5:00Oh boy was it absolutely brutal And you know some of the first round picks that they spent on the offensive line
5:06Haven't really worked I'll look at you at right tackle, uh, and then at left tackling dan moore not great Yep, and
5:13then having to literally thrust and build a passing attack at times around Alec ayamanor and jamiri dk and like van jefferson
5:19as we went through and through and then starting Seasons off with like against the denver broncos for example From start to
5:25finish when your play caller and head coach also gets fired midseason This is somewhat similar to like a situation that caleb
5:31williams found himself in during his rookie year but You know, you and I had real confidence that caleb immediately would come
5:38in in year two and like take it to Multiple notches not just the surrounding talent, but also the play caller and
5:44head coach Were you on that spectrum that cam ward can do something similar here in year two?
5:49I have my doubt just because the titans infrastructure still I think really bad like I like carnell tate for sure Uh,
5:55do you know who their center is? Do you know who their other guard is?
5:59It's still the same Backup center for brian dayball or this has played underneath him in the past.
6:05So yes, a lot of dayball's buddies here Yes, and then it's dayball which by the way dayball was fun for for
6:11jackson dart in terms of like Fantasy points because he kept you know calling these run plays cam ward I think's a
6:17fine athlete you just really never see it in terms of the ground game And I think that's gonna be the hard
6:23part because the jackson dart dropbacks which we get to There was a bunch of creativity in the past game Uh, and
6:30he's gonna have to build that for for cam ward so Uh excluding all the like, you know Environmental factors here just
6:36like getting back to what cam ward the process and all that type of stuff I thought his accuracy was a little
6:42bit underwhelming the the the arm talent is about just delivering the football Instantaneously with a ton of rpms.
6:47I thought him layering the ball was a little bit more hit and miss The downfield stuff was really bad in terms
6:54of catchable ball rate, which was kind of surprising to me And it's not an arm strength issue It's kind of the
7:00accuracy and I do think we talked about this in his cam ward Miami film is there would be some times where
7:06he was a tick late and he had the arm talent to still rifle it in there and he would make good on that In the nfl.
7:14I think him being a tick late did kind of catch up to him I think he had a really bad pick
7:20six on a check down where he just did not check things out on other dropbacks I thought there would be somebody
7:26coming open He was a little bit late and by the time he rifled in there Then you have an interception there
7:32and then the other weird thing that came up with him Is these fumbles he had a 2025 leading 11 fumbles he
7:39has tiny hands if for those that care about this some of them were like on the windup Sometimes he'd be kind
7:45of scrambling around the ball get kind of hit a lot of these were kind of self-inflicted And that had me a
7:51little bit kind of spooked because if the environment's going to stay bad and he's making mistakes that are Just purely based on him.
7:58That's where i'm worried about the 2026 version of cam ward here Just because I still don't trust the titans infrastructure I
8:04mean two years ago the titans had a season with will levis a quarterback He had one of those, you know mind-numbing plays.
8:11It seemed like at least one every single game It was funny you and I knowing that cam we're gonna go first
8:17the titans said buckle your seatbelts titans fans because you're gonna get similar things here with came word It felt like one time per game.
8:24He made a play that uh, literally would destroy drive give it to the opposition just craziness and I think that sometimes
8:30comes from him wanting to You know change the outcome of a contest on every single drive like he is a big
8:37play hunter And you'll see that with how long he holds on to the football how much he wants to drift and
8:43drift and drift And I I think brian dayball wants to change that this year like adding wandale robinson for example gives you A quick access player, right?
8:51Someone who can win easily Backfoot release it choice routes all that type of stuff You also have someone like carnell tate
8:57who can go up and is a technician as an outside wide receiver at really every level of the field A trusted
9:03pair of hands that you can't point to last year Having that.
9:07I mean there are these plays against like the broncos.
9:09I think this was in week one if i'm not mistaken Where second and eight deep in his own half?
9:15He is really wide open on a dig route, but the right tackle gets pushed back into his lap a bit So
9:21instead of kind of trusting his project progression, excuse me in his protection He drifts and buys time And he still throws
9:28it to calvin ridley on like the opposite side of the field out of structure for a gain of 12 Even though
9:34in structure in phase that pass could have been right there for also a gain of 12 yards But then two plays
9:40later He hits that same dig route over the middle of the field But then calvin really drops it on top of
9:46it So I even saw like progression in games However, you didn't see progression for the entire season just because of the
9:53useless abominable like awful environment that he was in Almost gave a platform for zero type of success or consistency.
9:58Yeah Yeah, I saw the build on I guess is what i'm saying Yeah, I see the same thing like the out
10:04of structure plays were nice They were not so bankable like when we were watching caleb williams were like all right The
10:11level of athleticism from caleb williams like this is going to happen forever cam awards a tier below that even if they
10:17have the same kind of, you know Arm talent, caleb williams just moving differently drake may his scramble ability Just a way
10:23different tier than what we're dealing with with cam ward And I thought that the floor remains pretty concerning because there were
10:29a lot of sacks that were cam ward sacks and then He holds on to it too long Too long and that's
10:36and that's it's it's exactly what we said about him in college Where we're going to be really excited It's going to
10:42hopefully Takes not as much time as I think it is After studying this tape and maybe you can turn to like
10:48this jordan love type of player who holds on the ball throws the ball down the field But the arm talent takes
10:54over We're pretty far away from that in my opinion.
10:57I think if cam ward's going to hit it's going to take multiple years from now And I think that he has
11:03a lot of work Work to do to kind of speed up this thing and then also the mistakes just cannot be
11:10I'm fumbling the ball in the pocket for fumble sixes the other way, right?
11:14And hopefully those are just rookie mistakes and hopefully it's just because he doesn't trust the right tackle play caller Elec ayuman
11:20or all those type of things, but at some point The success rate is so low that to get to league average
11:26This is going to take a little bit longer than I was hoping for Yeah, there's a difference in you know Missing
11:32a sideline route and throwing it out of bounds and like that's a negative play versus your negative play Against the miami
11:39dolphins like just losing a fumble for no reason just a total lack of protecting the football Um, it's interesting and this
11:45goes back to exactly his time with the hurricanes Where I think when he puts his foot in the dirt and is
11:51decisive on scrambling He has some really nice moments of picking up 12 to 13 yards And I really hope that brian
11:57day ball can coax that out of him versus just this hold on to it Hold on to it mentality And then
12:04there were a couple of place where moving laterally and getting to the corner that he could evade some sacks But i'm
12:10kind of 50 50 split on if he has the athleticism that can sustain that as his career goes along Because it almost felt like to me.
12:17Oh, he just evaded that versus actually having like real burst Exploding to to be dangerous in that area I just overall
12:24maybe i'm misinterpreting what you're saying I believe i'm more optimistic that he can actually turn around immediately that he can be
12:30a really fun watch and a really enjoyable quarterback here This season because just the environment is going to get so much
12:36better and that combines with that He has a short memory like he'll make those mistakes and then oh in the fourth
12:42quarter even if i'm down by 13 points I see a one-on-one shot i'm taking it and I I again I think
12:49that's a great mentality to have just to go quickly into the structural environment He had last year the titans were first
12:55in the nfl With 78 of their snaps being 11 personnel.
12:58Okay while using shifts and motions at the second lowest rate In the league and then they were under center just 25
13:04of the time that was 24th in the league and also number one In three by one sets so everything was vanilla Everything was a bit static.
13:12It was a bit stationary. It wasn't creative at all It didn't feel like he had a bunch of open receivers once
13:18he hit the end of his drop And then when he did fire it into these tight windows or downfield shots or
13:24one-on-one stuff He didn't get a ton of help in a lot of those situations and then when other things did go
13:31well He held it on too long and had some misses on top of it.
13:35So again, it was like this circular Cycle that was kind of self-eating at this point and you just couldn't escape that
13:41during his rookie season In the defense was bad.
13:44So hopefully the defense had a lot of players on defense press robert sala that hopefully like he can stay ahead of
13:50the change You can get a little bit different of an offense I think traits wise like i'd be curious if you
13:56have like a good comp for like a high-end outcome Jordan love is kind of like the north star for me just
14:02like as a prospect That's still the path i'm hoping he takes and I think that jordan love flashes a little bit Of athleticism, but nothing too crazy.
14:10He's just gonna win by having crazy arm talent I just think that when jordan love saw the field after sitting for
14:17a little bit He was just kind of a lot further ahead on the this timeline than cam warden remember cam ward's
14:23an air raid guy Uh, so I think there could be a little bit of a transition time The underdog pick and lobby.
14:29It's only at 17 and a half touchdowns here.
14:32It's like the bar is pretty low There's like setting expectations and I do fear that How intriguing his 5 10 best
14:38plays of the year Is a little bit kind of you know coding over like What happened on a play-by-play basis?
14:44So I I had a lot of fun watching him.
14:47I really hope he's good Uh, i'm Maybe kind of have my eyes towards 2027 and 2028 Uh rather than like being
14:53super optimistic for this year week one I just want the structure to have some semblance to it and then for it
14:59to be on him if he fails versus You know a couple times per game.
15:04It's on him that he fails But then many others that someone is slipping or sliding or blowing a block or dropping
15:10a pass and Uh, give him a platform to uh, have a real chance for for multiple weeks The other part of
15:16this though and it's kind of been swept under the rug this offseason Is that he suffered a shorter injury during the final Game of the season?
15:24Uh, he did avoid surgery on this right ac joint sprain his throwing shoulder um, i'm sure everyone believes he's gonna be
15:30perfectly healthy entering the year But that is something that obviously when you prepare for the draft You don't have as much
15:36time as other quarterbacks do Uh getting ready for a season and preparing for that and then right now whatever time he
15:42does miss Uh, that is also kind of impacting whatever potential year to jump you can have All right before we get
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16:21who has hit that button And watched it over the last five years.
16:25Let's put it that way. All right. The other first round quarterback Jackson dart from your favorite team the new york giants
16:31Right now being selected as quarterback 12 the 10th pick of the eighth round when you went back and watched jackson dart What did you see?
16:39I think there's a pretty promising player with jackson dart Just looking at it statistically real quick 13th and epa per play
16:4517th and success rate per play I'm using per play because a lot of the stuff is based off what he did
16:51as a rusher It was the second most total epa only trailing josh allen on the ground I do think that's here
16:57to stay for the most part because he is he's quite the athlete I think comfortably he's a top 10 athlete among starters in the nfl.
17:05We're not talking about jaden daniels We're not talking about josh allen that next tier down.
17:09I do think jackson dart is firmly in there And that provides a floor.
17:13He has a ways to go as a passer But when i'm watching like shake zach bond, uh in open field, uh
17:19putting his head down Uh, he was like splitting defenders on tape.
17:23I think that's a real stuff That's gonna buy him time to get more comfortable Uh as a passer where I think
17:29that he has pretty decent arm talent. It's nothing fantastic I think he can throw the ball on the run.
17:35He's pretty dang accurate. He's aggressive So he's like ninth in pfs big time throw rate.
17:39He doesn't have crazy arm strength I think that's average maybe even teetering towards like maybe even below average like among like
17:45nfl starting Uh caliber so I think that puts him like I think stylistically similar to russell wilson But just does not
17:52have the same exact velocity on his throws, but I do think we have a foundation here I think it is worth
17:58noting out uh noting that he didn't play with malik neighbors last year Like the infrastructure around him.
18:03I would say was not Yeah, and he might not again this year, but hopefully the offensive line plays better They added
18:09a first rounder andrew thomas gets back and actually is like fully healthy to go Uh that the infrastructure around him is
18:16a little bit better because if you're looking at the infrastructure versus his results Pretty good season for Jackson Dartt By acknowledging
18:22for our so you're kind of talking about the players around him because I would say actually the the scheme that was
18:28created for him Did accentuate a lot of his strengths Would you agree?
18:32I agree. Yeah, I mean brian dabble just like did not care if he was going to be in the concussion 10
18:38at all Like he had to go win those games and for fantasy purposes like that was that was awesome He ended
18:44up being a low-end quarterback one Uh down the stretch there.
18:47I just think that the the scheme uh passing wise and there was a lot of like drop passes from theo johnson
18:53Which now they have isaiah likely uh some drop balls from darius slayton Hopefully that's malik neighbors and darnell mooney.
18:59Hopefully can catch some more passes And then the offensive line was really injured in the red area.
19:04They couldn't move They didn't have anybody to win one-on-one situations.
19:07I don't think we're gonna have that perfectly this year But still the fact that jackson dar was able to escape and
19:14have like league average stats on like the advanced metrics Despite all that.
19:17I think it's pretty promising here to me What I love about him is that he has the same level of confidence
19:24In his teammates as he does in himself Like he trusts his guys He gives them a chance even if he shouldn't
19:30based on a lot of things that you said So I think with better players more plays will be made now I
19:36also believe there's a question if he has better players around him this year definitely on the offensive line like That matters
19:42a lot and we'll get into the offensive line element in a little bit But we need malik neighbors like a true
19:48number one to be on the field for a long stretch of the season And at his best because that makes a
19:55difference and if not you're kind of going in this role player ish range Which can be a bit High variance and
20:01it doesn't really necessarily change and dictate what the defense Is going to do I agree with you that leading off With
20:07his mobility is the right way of doing this and then that will buy him time To hopefully develop more as like
20:13your typical top tier quarterback passer or like above average quarterback passer because To me I was a bit nervous of like
20:20how often his eyes dropped but In that area he did have the athleticism to avoid the pressure There was a lot
20:26of movement in that to like Again, that's how he was able to kind of change the numbers in the secondary one
20:32of his favorite plays this year was For the pass rush to get upfield him to climb up There were these two
20:38sitting linebackers over the middle of field One or both would then converge on him so he doesn't scramble for eight ten
20:45yards And then he would just loft the ball over their heads Yep, and there would be like your in breaker your
20:51dig route Even if it was kind of an extended play not necessarily in the structure of an offense So you got
20:57a whole bunch of those kind of extended plays that on a weekly basis You wonder if they could You know repeat
21:03themselves week on week They did then I do wonder if defenses are going to kind of change how they Cover him
21:10a little bit more this season Yeah, yeah, I think that would be the the bad outcome I do think that he's
21:16just such a good athlete I think that's just going to be the reality for jackson dart flick the next five to
21:22ten years And I do think that he's he's an nfl starter and I have like no questions that the giants are
21:28going to commit to him for A very long time.
21:31I thought like the the floor here was was pretty solid Uh I think he is definitely on this russell wilson jalen
21:37hurts i'll throw out, you know Bo nicks type of spectrum here where you have a good athlete There's some very clear
21:44things where if you're an offensive coordinator you want to be gravitating towards And then hopefully jackson dart can get more familiar
21:50inside the pocket I was looking at some of the splits his red zone numbers were horrific and there was he had
21:56a fumble He was trying to make too many plays out of structure I think going back and watching all of them
22:02There are some elements like he did not have a one-on-one guy and like that's huge in Uh the red area and
22:09then also he had the worst splits against two high shells versus not And I think both of those red zone two
22:15high shells the best quarterbacks you got to have the right path Instantaneously throw it on the money know where you're going
22:21to be very decisive And then it's also helpful to have somebody that you could throw the ball to consistently That's where
22:27he struggles and there was just too many times the saints won one of the worst reps by any quarterback A dig route.
22:34I mean wide open the offensive line is doing their job He's staring at the guy should be throwing the ball to
22:40kind of breaks out from there misses them fumble There's another play where a dig route's coming open late on it.
22:46Then that turns to an interception He does not have the best eyes right now And that was some of the thing
22:52the concern of playing in a lane kiffin offense where things are a little bit more Half field ready now the positive
22:58thing is with experience That's the type of thing that hopefully you can get better like all of a sudden like an
23:05Unathletic quarterbacks are just not going to become a great athlete where I do think there's maybe some more progression with jackson
23:11dart As he gets away from the air ready lean kiffin offense into a more structured hardball under center play action offense
23:17Which he's not this is not what he's used to at all Um, but I do think three years from now if
23:23you can just See the field a little bit better The other tools are locked and loaded.
23:28So that's why i'm taking a pretty optimistic look here we've talked about this often but so frequently Rushing and mobility at
23:34quarterback is linked to a player ceiling when it really should be linked to their floor Because in this case like you
23:41were talking about the floor being Just his ability to buy himself not only time in a play but in his career
23:47to learn more and become a viable Passer from the pocket in the structure of everything because that is what translates year
23:53over year It's fascinating that you mentioned Russell wilson.
23:56I know you did on twitter as well because That's an interesting comparison from the angle that you brought it up But
24:02also because there was a period of time Where everyone in you know, the football cognizante Said let russ cook give him
24:08the keys to the offense run less throw more That's the high cpa.
24:12That's where the big plays come from all that type of stuff But then when you listen to all the seahawks that
24:18now maybe have podcasts from that era Uh, and also, you know, you talk to someone like michael sean dugar who does
24:24a fantastic job covering that team Russ was able to have those late Game moments because of the running game Like you
24:31didn't have to rely on russell wilson To carry your offense on every single series because he wasn't going to stand there
24:37and read it out play after play And on some level the giants are kind of using those same buzzwords this offseason
24:43a bit Like reading between the lines top 12 pick on an offensive lineman They were in and all the big time
24:49running backs according to jordan run on when you talk about ken walker to travis etn to hoping to draft jeremiah love
24:56even despite all that You listen to harbaugh and matt nagy and everyone saying quote We want to run the football and
25:02then when we get into favorable situations This is my conclusion from them Then that's where you can get these You know moments of magic from him.
25:09Yep. You can ask jackson dart to like Have a cool ass play Three or four times a game versus asking him
25:16to do it 13 to 14 Times correct per game.
25:19So yeah, to me he's more of like a see it throw it kind of guy And that's why again when I
25:25talked about having the rush converge and him using his athleticism to not just go north and south But also east and
25:31west and elongating elongating these plays That allows the coverage to get stretched out to the play to kind of break down
25:37and then he can And he makes some really cool decisions that like he really does reset and like, you know Push
25:43past the ball and do all this flick of the wrist But then it also goes into why he was to me
25:50such a bummer inside of the red zone Because everything is so condensed in that area They really can't stretch everything out
25:56that it's much more difficult to elongate those snaps And that's when you kind of have to play on time in rhythm
26:02and everything of that sort and uh That's where i'm gonna look immediately in weeks one through three and see if that
26:08has progressed yeah, and Usually when we're like he's not reading things out properly usually that comes with and he had 14
26:15interceptions and he was making all these brutal mistakes He was just like turning things down not like necessarily making a bunch
26:21of bad decisions like and just like forcing a bunch of passes That he had no business doing so maybe that's like
26:27on the grand scheme of things a slight plus I I think that he can be bo nicks and like that's the
26:33second year leap and then all of a sudden We're kind of talking about him a little bit differently I think he's
26:40very clearly going to be an nfl starter and I do think there's like a jalen hurts type of ceiling that You
26:46can kind of grow into and i'm hoping that as he gets more experience just in just like we saw with jalen
26:52hurts over his eagles career Then you know three years into this all of a sudden you have like all right the
26:58athletes awesome and he's at least can throw the ball down The football field and it's on the oc to kind of
27:05make things better and you have and the playmakers around him like it's kind of correct It turns into like an environmental
27:11situation like do you have a future? Yes coach that we really like as a play caller or is it one of
27:17these Bums that gets fired after a year Do you have devante smith and aj brown and dallas goddard?
27:22And is your offensive line playing one is your running game doing it?
27:26Yes, I agree. Um long story short for me If I was redoing the nfl draft, he would be my first overall
27:32player from from last year So, um, I think it's an awesome pick for the giants They should be very happy about
27:39where this thing was Initially and then I would say don't expect the craziest second year leap because we're going into a
27:45brand new offense Like you said under center play action, which I do think you can do the bone nicks roll them
27:51out throwing the ball down the football field Same thing with russell wilson.
27:55Like we talked about here He just hasn't done that a whole lot So I wouldn't be surprised if this season feels
28:01very similar to last season Maybe with a little bit less rushing and then 2027 is the year where things are at
28:07malik neighbors is healthy I'm used to this offense and then we can kind of see the the upside case here, but
28:13A really good athlete man like you just cannot undersell that part of this There was one moment when he did play
28:20with malik neighbors This play kind of stood out to me versus all the others like Again, dropping his eyes a three-level
28:26play where malik neighbors literally puts up a mailbox He's on the deepest kind of corner route And it goes back to
28:32what we're saying that it didn't lead in an interception or a wayward throw He turned it down and said in this
28:38case ran into a sack and other times, you know Turned into a run of eight yards or a scramble laterally to
28:45buy more time and then everyone kind of plays backyard football And then you flip it for for a big game on
28:51top of that So I have no idea what matt nagy is going to bring to this approach Uh, I would have
28:57been much more excited if it was todd munkin Uh as his offensive coordinator, which was you know, the hope all around
29:03when harbaugh was hired as coach and obviously now he's the Head coach for shador sanders who we'll talk about here in
29:10a moment At the very least if he has three quality offensive linemen in front of him and they have really good
29:16blocking Then that again already gives you a platform for for success that you can Even have more fun and your athleticism
29:22can shine even more from that too All right, I agree I'll still take ham ward, but we'll see this will be a telling season.
29:29Okay quarterback three and actually quarterback two in your drafts That is tyler shuck of the new orleans saints.
29:35Uh, we talked about him on a recent show But we'll dive even deeper right now quarterback 19 The seventh pick of
29:41the 10th round at this moment by the way You all can be drafting all these players and many many others over
29:47an underdog right now Uh use promo code the show play five bucks you get 50 Right at this moment, uh, you've
29:53heard us talk about best ball for years All you do is draft.
29:57There's no waivers. There's no trade through the setting lineup So it's the perfect time to do it right now and all
30:03summer long So, uh, go download the dog app and do some drafting Talk to me about tyler shuck and what you
30:09saw here after he took over in about week eight Very competent football player here now that comes with the territory being a 26 year old.
30:17I I get it But I see all the tools to be an nfl average starter and I think that for the
30:23saints Like you're looking at a complete bargain here second rounder on a rookie con uh contract and Uh, all the additions that they made this offseason.
30:31I think you felt That being the weaknesses of this offense the last year I thought there was some reps where if
30:37it wasn't going to chris alavin He was trying to go to the next tier of players.
30:42Those guys weren't coming open Uh, and then I also thought there was some pressure on the the interior offensive line You
30:48bring in a veteran, uh, you add jordan tyson We liked oscar delp a little bit yards after they catch a different
30:54type of player than juwan And I can see how this thing kind of comes together I can tell that kellen more
31:00liked what he was seeing from tyler shuck Uh, tyler shuck plays a very conservative brand of football He's willing to throw
31:07the ball over the middle, but if he doesn't like it He's going to quickly get to his check down and throw
31:13the ball underneath Uh, there was a little bit of antsiness to him like he you can feel him just playing really
31:19fast Sometimes that was a good thing because he can actually make make it through all all of his reads And I
31:25think other times you kind of feel some of the antsiness Come into play his numbers against pressure were pretty bad But
31:32otherwise I thought had a pretty quality season I think that this intermediate 5 to 15 kind of yard window I thought
31:38tyler shucks showed a lot there and while you didn't get to it a lot There's some level of athleticism here.
31:44He surprised the bucks a couple times. Uh zone read scrambling I'm completely shocked that i'm sure todd bowles is still furious
31:50about it Uh, and then he can throw on the run a little bit here So there's some warts to his game.
31:56I think it's going to prevent him from having a big time ceiling here Is the pathway to him being you know,
32:03hopefully ryan tannehill right there for the taking? I think that's absolutely a play He's easily in the best situation and it's not just last season.
32:10He was in the best situation It's also this year.
32:13Yeah, you can Clearly tell that kellen moore has a vision of what he wants an offense to be and you know
32:19This goes back to his time with the cowboys and the chargers and the eagles We always talk about pace.
32:25We always talk about amount of plays, but you know He had the answers here for tyler shock and you could argue
32:31he had the answers for spencer rattler as well I think if you're talking about time to throw they were two of
32:37the four quickest time to throws Uh across the league.
32:40So again, that's the vision of who they are But then how can you upscale that?
32:44How can you upgrade that this year? You talked about it They had some really nice designed open stuff Whether it was
32:51like a fake screen that leaked out or an open Extra protection or rub routes on these vertical routes But then it
32:57goes to the personnel like you bring in david edwards at left guard So you don't have instant losses at that spot
33:03to not spook your quarterback You bring in travis etn to be the starting running back when you had to turn to
33:09late round guys last year Jordan tyson to be an out outside iso winner Uh, and then oscar delp as you said
33:16to be a real inline presence But also athleticism after the catch that you can just flip it to on those time
33:22to throw routes so like while I believe that The saints offensive line because they still had, you know, two first rounders
33:28plus some other guys And then chris alave gave him a combo to have the most chances to play in timing in
33:34the structure of the three guys We've already talked about already that can even be ramped up even more and lean into
33:41the things he does Well this season that that gives him a springboard to have like a really nice even second gear
33:47to it Even if you would say like in a vacuum to use that phrase maybe His traits and his play style
33:53don't necessarily give like A huge second year leap in comparison to cam warden jackson dart if that makes yeah, I think
33:59that his arm talent in general is just Rock solid.
34:02I think his accuracy is fine. I will note that his uh, catchable ball rate and success rate on 20 plus air
34:08yards was among the worst in the nfl Uh his I think he can take some rpms and layer throws pretty well
34:15And he can even make some throws on the run and then layer them So I I like that part of his
34:21arm talent I wouldn't say the ball is like completely being rifled in there all the time But it passes every single
34:27level to throw the ball down the football field long term So I think that the arm talent's fine.
34:33Like we said the athleticism is fine I just thought by rookie standards Uh him throwing the ball over the middle as
34:39often as he did and like working all the way to the check down I thought was was pretty dang impressive now
34:45like should we expect that from a 26 year old?
34:48Sure But I mean he was executing it and I I think that there's a a built-in floor here with with tyler
34:54shuck And if we are going to be throwing the ball over the middle and surprising uh Players or the the defenders
35:00out there That's kind of like what like ryan tannahill was doing out there So that's kind of what i'm hoping for
35:07where the titans can kind of go on a run Does tan hill's not overly expensive?
35:11They got derrick henry they got competent offensive line play We like the the head coach and then all of a sudden
35:17you can have like a pretty fun team Even if you're not you're going to end up losing to you, you know,
35:24the the freakazoid quarterbacks That are out there. So I mean But he would easily go top 10 this level of quarterback
35:30in this system Can be a top 15 guy, you know, yeah, I agree.
35:34Oh, yeah When when you are in the right system surrounded by the right people and your offensive line stays healthy and
35:40it protects you Then you can go on these runs of consistency of knowing where to go the football and get it
35:46out of your hands That it makes your Stats look incredible and it makes your play on the field look in time
35:52in rhythm and just successful drive to drive and He's in a potential situation to do that And that's really the first
35:59time i've said that with all three of these quarterbacks and so that again That gives him a great platform here and
36:05on top of that Just as soon as he was inserted in the starting lineup You could tell he had an understanding
36:11of his offense and that he and kellen are on the same page and what his strengths are and what his weaknesses
36:17are like pre-snap he Knows In terms of what the coverage he's looking at on the drop He's hitting the checklist in
36:24terms of reading exactly which is my zone side, which is my man side And then once he hits his drop like
36:30the ball is out And while it looked kind of boring at times and maybe not as many total peaks as we've
36:36talked about with ward and dart Uh You could just hit the next play and hit the next play and hit the
36:42next play And it was just out out out And what I loved was you know, a ton of these out routes
36:49these hinges these curls these comebacks all types And the ball was just on time On the moment exactly where it needed
36:55to be now on the opposite end Um, I do still have questions about him under pressure because the sample size is
37:01pretty small Again the offensive line you play with last year while it had some holes and they tried to patch that
37:07this year He had 124 drop backs under pressure last year 39 completions went under pressure For example, that's the same number as justin fields J.J.
37:15mccarthy michael penex last season Um, and even his adjusted completion percentage under pressure last year is 28 in the nfl now
37:21Is it to the point like it was at louisville when you had those highlight reel or low lights where he would
37:27just like Get rid of the football no like he he showed a lot more Strength in that situation and willingness to
37:33take shots in those situations But then there were still moments like against the rams for example where it was just a
37:40simple four-man rush and he just You could see the discomfort on his face and he popped it to shaheed and double
37:46coverage and it should have been an interception Or against the dolphins like it was a train wreck of a first half They confused him.
37:53They got him second guessing He was throwing into driving defenders.
37:56They were down 60 nothing. I believe at one point And then even to close it out the interception the two-point attempt
38:02to tie it deep into the fourth quarter so while you can tell that he and kellen moore Have answers and he
38:09knows what his answers are be and they have a really good plan heading into these I do have some concerns of
38:15If he goes in these contests and he is surprised Not just for series but entire games Then i'm not sure if
38:21he has like just the tools right now Or the ability right now as a 27 year old quarterback soon to be
38:27To then like flip that switch and like put the team on his back I see the same exact way just the
38:33internal clock feels very fast and then he can feel a little bit antsy Uh, his pressure to sack ratio on top
38:40of those other metrics was second worst in the nfl is only Uh, better than geno smith last year.
38:45So not only was he not completing passes He was just like straight up taking too many sacks on top of that
38:51This was like the thing that we had more concerns with on his louisville tape I will say this he is tough
38:58Like I think in louisville you can be like is he tough enough to hang in the nfl?
39:03Like there was a plenty of reps where he was taking big shots and delivering it It was just that he would
39:09play kind of quick and then he'd have some bad decisions there So I saw him playing more too quick rather than
39:15like being fooled Uh, and I do wonder if like you said Ultimately the traits are going to be a tier below
39:21where it needs to be to like really really take off here But that said I just think that he does A
39:28lot of the more difficult things as a rookie quarterback.
39:30I think he does that at a pretty nice level So I think the saints right now They would have to take
39:37like a top 10 pick to to pry Pry them away from tyler shuck.
39:41I think we're read redrafting I think he's easily going well into the first half of round one and they got him
39:47Uh, what 41st overall or whatever it was Yeah, he looks like a 27 year old quarterback and like by that.
39:53I mean he Frequently guys on their second contract kind of look the comfort level that he has right now in terms
39:59of Uh playing out the scheme of an offense Um, and for him, it's the same same number of positives um, I mentioned with Cam warden.
40:06I should have said this with jackson dart as well The motion and shifting percentage oftentimes that's you know coaches being scared
40:13of putting too much on the plate of a rookie quarterback So like dart, uh He was 32nd last year with 46
40:19of motion shift plays cam ward 28th 54 percent Uh, tyler shuck and the saints team six the most 70 percent of
40:25snaps so that shows again, not just A confidence in this is the scheme we're running and i'm going to get my
40:31guys prepared But also tyler shock to you know get to the line of scrimmage in time and Command a huddle enough
40:38and uh Get people in the right positions for for all of that to unfold So like if jordan tyson hits as
40:44a top 15 pick that he is if oscar delt flashes of athleticism If david edwards Is a quality left guard signing
40:50and then if travis a chan can step in there and be a reliable runner then you're already like using last season
40:56as almost the floor and then Hoping that this becomes even better and I think that's why that the saints are becoming
41:03such a uh in vogue pick as And people's cinderella team of the season Yep, I see it the same exact way.
41:09Do you think there's like a little like Daniel jones To this all I think daniel jones a little bit better of
41:15an athlete, but I think but you can build a decent offense around daniel jones and uh And I think that a
41:21quality coach can kind of get the most out of daniel jones I can see chuck kind of falling into that category
41:28Okay, I want to ask you this question um Since this is a fancy program Which of these adps do you like the most?
41:34Do any of them do you like the least?
41:37Are you drafting all of them with confidence? I understand stacking and all that type of stuff Uh, because we just talked
41:43about discussing adps and the markets would tell you That round 10 Is pretty rich here for tyler shuck uh, just in
41:49terms of his projected touchdowns this year and the saints overall but again, we know that Uh Multiple teams every single year
41:56throw the projections in uh, the markets faces out there They're in uh, overperform Let's say I think the saints have either
42:0222nd projected points that feels too low tyler shuck on underdog right now He's projected for just 19 and a half passing
42:08touchdowns I like taking the higher there The adp gets me a little bit more nervous just because he's surrounded by guys
42:14that can like run around a lot It's like malik willis goes in the next round Kyler murray would be my favorite
42:21in this round I think that kyler murray is gonna like easily win that job with the vikings You get the kevin
42:27o'connell infrastructure plus kyler murray's like a legit Threat rushing where tyler shuck, you know, he was uh, was a quarterback 23
42:33quarterback 25 in in rushing yards this last season I don't expect that to kind of take over.
42:38So I think we Appreciate what tyler shuck is.
42:41I think this adp feels like a round or two too heavy I would definitely have him over cam ward in fantasy
42:47though like for this upcoming season and that's how the markets are I just think, you know Going up one round and
42:53you know getting brock purdy or kyler murray trevor lawrence I would rather just pay the premium slightly to go up ahead
42:59Jack miller posted about this today that quarterback 1880p by year on underdog Uh, if you go back to you know, 2020
43:06that was at 150 It was around that 135 to 150 range over the first four years.
43:10Yeah, five years. Excuse me Uh, then you go to 2025 that was at 129 overall again This is for quarterback 18.
43:17So your mid-round quarterback you're again Stacking them all together, but now your quarterback 18 is going as 110 overall Now you
43:23compare that to The elite quarterbacks the early round quarterbacks are kind of going later than ever too So that makes me
43:29not want to attack this quarterback 18 ish range But instead go up and get one of those elite guys because we're
43:35getting a discount versus what we did last year and we've talked about it Mainly because uh, the athletic ones got injured
43:42last year Yes, and that could change instantaneously. I view it the same way I will say this the quarterback 15 to
43:48quarterback 25 on underdog has always been too cheap every single year I do fantasy points over replacement and that's a good
43:54way to compare things across Uh positions using underdog half ppr scoring and every single year the quarterbacks They rank way higher
44:00in that metric than their adp And this is the first year where I can look at the adp and then look
44:07at fancy points of replacement And everything almost looks identical the running backs are up the quarterbacks are up The wide receivers
44:13are down and there's like a legit separation across the tight end landscape.
44:17I think that Tyler shucks should be kind of going in this range and if he was being priced at quarterback or
44:23like the round 16 range That would have just been like old school fantasy where that was just like straight up wrong
44:29Now the other part of this too is once you get to round 10 You don't really want to take the other
44:35position guys and so that will you know push up The quarterbacks 18 through 25 as you're saying because it's much easier
44:41to click those names versus some of the Wide receivers and running backs.
44:45Yeah, that's the bad rookie classroom this last year, you know Typically there's a bunch of exciting wide receivers and then this
44:51year less so okay, we'll close with one more quarterback This is shador sanders of the cleveland browns I'm expecting to get
44:58starts this year not necessarily because of what he showed during his rookie season But just because that quarterback room is deshaun
45:04watson and shador sanders at this point Somehow he continues to just be a lightning rod of a topic And now it's
45:10your turn to add more fuel to that fire hayden.
45:13I don't think shador sanders could play at an nfl starting level I think that he has a chance to be a career backup.
45:20There's not a statistical argument for him 37th out of 37 qualifiers in epa Per drop back 36 in success rate I
45:26think the athletic traits are pretty underwhelming more backup tier than starting tier He maybe invaded more tackles than I was expecting
45:32Uh, but it takes a while for him to kind of get up to the top speed And that's just kind of
45:38what a backup quarterback looks like versus the freakazoid Quarterbacks we have in the modern nfl.
45:43And then I think that his accuracy I think is good if like for example, he's in the pro bowl, um by
45:49mistake and then he's like throwing the ball at a target I think he's accurate then the way he plays now where
45:55he's just kind of like wandering around the pocket and out of time Then I think the accuracy is like actually not good and it was surprising.
46:03He had the lowest Catchable ball rate. Uh when once you remove screens, he had the highest interceptable ball rate Uh, once
46:09you remove screens as well pretty tough combo. So I think When we go back to the college profile is like he's
46:16super accurate I don't know if I could say he's actually super accurate It might be one of his better traits but by nfl starting standards.
46:23I would not say that he's accurate And then I would also just mention there's just way too many negatives I think
46:29everyone kind of understands that at this point while the coach is like actively trying to hide him so Deshaun watson that
46:35should or doesn't have so maybe by the end of the season everything goes bust and we see him again But I
46:42think very clearly a backup if he can kind of hold on to that If and when he does get on the
46:48field the number one thing that i'm looking for that Will set him up for potential future success is he can't bail
46:54out of the pocket anymore Like you you can't go in reverse He has to climb there were some Promising moments not
47:00just in college, but in the nfl when he did put his back foot and drive on it And then climb the
47:07pocket and then those were his best moments but Again that offensive line at colorado retreated a whole bunch Then he gets
47:13to cleveland Continues to retreat and that just compounds the negative plays on top of it So i am with you.
47:19I believe the future wish door sanders is as a backup quarterback out there And like there aren't 32 backup quarterbacks out
47:25there, but let's be real like he From talent should be one of the 64 best quarterbacks In the nfl What adds
47:31on to this though is everything that comes with the sure sanders experience his father his brother uh, the Let's say the
47:38media opportunity and involvement that Todd munkin's going to be asked about every single time that store sanders Uh, is a backup
47:44quarterback and deshaun watson has a bad start out there The first question the press conference is going to be well Is
47:50should or going to be the starter next week and that just you know Is a bit of a drag at times
47:56on on the entire franchise, but just when focusing on him I believe he's one of the 64 best quarterbacks in the
48:03league He has some areas that he has success He has some areas where he wins But the number one thing that
48:09he has to work on to take the next step in just who he is as a player is Because he's going
48:15to hold on the football too long and it does kind of take his I think release and wind up a bit
48:21too long Is He has to have More compact movements and to go forward and not to go in reverse Yeah, I
48:27think it got better than where it was at Colorado this last year and like you said his best moments were actually
48:34him stepping up into the pocket He actually can layer some throws in I think that's where his accuracy comes in when
48:40he's like throwing almost a change up to the sideline or somebody kind of sneaking in around That's where you're going to
48:46get the best plays from shudor sanders and there's no question like that is His best trait his best rep of the season Was a free runner.
48:54He was responsible He rolls out to his right and throws the ball down the football field And I think that these
49:00kind of out of structure moments throwing it with a little bit of pace I do think like he has like the
49:06the top 64 talent that you're talking about there Now like you get a couple of those reps per game like the
49:13rest of it has to be at a normal level and he has some some work Cut out for him there Do
49:19you want to give credit like this offseason been extremely quiet like so far?
49:23So like that's that's really good for for sure His brothers made the most noise compared to yes, and you know what
49:29like his brothers is his own person like shudor sanders You can only grade him by the shudor sanders and he's better
49:35than dylan gabriel, you know And dylan gabriel was drafted ahead of him The dylan gabriel stuff like he's would qualify for the show.
49:42We agreed. We're not even to get To the dylan gabriel stuff Uh, I will say shudor and dylan gabriel overlapped on
49:48the chart A lot when I was like going through some of the filters Uh, but just in terms of talent like
49:54you're talking about two totally different guys there He's one of these guys as he gets more reps I think that his
50:01you know, his plan initially will get a little bit better his comfort uh Comfortability throwing the ball over the middle will
50:07get a little bit better He's always wanted to throw the ball over the middle I think that there's like varying degrees
50:13of success with that so far But I think that's how he becomes a stable backup quarterback Um, and I I just
50:19think that the browns are probably looking at this like deshaun watson's overall talent It's just way more obvious to us So
50:26we'll at least see if his achilles is on straight and give him all the reps this offseason and then I think
50:32well into the season So i'm not expecting a whole lot from shudor sanders, but um, he's definitely better He's definitely better
50:38than a fifth rounder, you know, definitely better than a fifth rounder.
50:42Okay, that's gonna do it again the most fascinating part to me is Three quarterbacks that we talked about in the show last year.
50:48We're going in the top 14 And then just one is going in the top 14 of this year and uh They're
50:55gonna be obvious areas Of hey, can strengths get stronger of these guys and can some weaknesses get to league average or
51:01even some cases can weaknesses Turn the strengths and if that's the case then You know the first two names that we
51:07talked about with cam warden jackson dart you will see like Exponential Yeah, success and production compared to what they did their
51:13rookie season And if we get three starting quarterbacks from this last class where everyone said it's just such a bad class
51:20like that's a win I think that in general the gap between ward dart and shuck has completely narrowed and I think
51:26all three of these guys have a pathway They just have to make up for for their warts But three quarterbacks starting
51:32by the end of the rookie season versus the expectations that we had I would say if we got one starting quarterback
51:38from last year's class, that would be a win I think we're on pace to having two or three of them That's gonna do it again this week.
51:46We're gonna talk about second year breakouts at every position So running backs tight ends wide receivers So, uh lock into the channel.
51:53This is really what a massive part of your fancy draft is all about So we want to learn about and figure
51:59out who these players are What's now surrounding them and where they're gonna go in their second year So shout out to
52:05weaves and mo show behind the scenes All of you for watching up the bill.
52:09We'll talk to you guys next time. See ya
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