Dart Warming: An NFC East Preview
STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.
1 hr 34 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 1, 2026
Published
Wed, July 1, 2026
17
Player insights
16
Players mentioned
Topics
Jayden DanielsAntonio WilliamsBrandon AiyukChris PaulDeVonta SmithEli StowersJalen HurtsJavonte WilliamsJohn BatesJohnny MundtKaytron AllenMakai LemonMalik NabersSaquon Barkley
Player analysis
Player insights
Antonio Williams
NegativeRole56:00
Williams was drafted by the Commanders from Clemson as a slot receiver, adding depth to the wide receiver room. However, Mina Kimes likes him but feels he is slot-only right now, which may be limiting in the Commanders' offensive scheme, especially as they move toward a more under-center, less spread approach that emphasizes blocking and multiple tight ends.
Insight pageBrandon Aiyuk
NegativeProjection65:59
Kimes expresses uncertainty about Brandon Ayuk's situation with the Commanders, noting she doesn't know if he will play football for them or what he will look like; if he is even close to his prime form that earned him his contract, the Commanders offense with him, McLaurin, and Williams should be spread and shredded.
Insight pageChris Paul
PositiveProjection60:00
Paul really came on for the Commanders last year and is a solid fourth or fifth best starter on the offensive line; if he's your fourth or fifth best starter, you're in a pretty good spot. He showed improvement and is part of the Commanders' offensive line that can support the new system.
Insight pageDeVonta Smith
PositiveRole5:09
DeVonta Smith's precision route-running and zone-beating ability make him a cornerstone of the Eagles' new offensive scheme; he is expected to benefit from the redesigned offense that creates yards-after-catch opportunities and middle-of-the-field throws.
Insight pageEli Stowers
PositiveRole3:43
Eli Stowers, drafted by the Eagles, is a zone-beating tight end with nice college reps in that regard; he fits the team's strategy to address their zone coverage weakness and provides a middle-of-the-field option in the new offensive scheme.
Insight pageJalen Hurts
NegativeProjection3:39
Jalen Hurts' fit in the new Sean Mannion Shanahan-style offense is the central question for the Eagles; while Hurts is accurate and generally protects the ball, his weakness is throwing over the middle of the field with anticipation, which is critical to the new scheme. The offense is built to suit his strengths (RPOs, quick game, pre-snap reads) if Mannion can modify it appropriately. Hurts' success depends on buying into the system and trusting receivers in the middle of the field quickly with anticipation—not his greatest strength—but there is optimism given the Green Bay blueprint and Mannion's track record.
Insight pageJavonte Williams
NegativeProjection66:59
Kimes is not worried about Javante Williams as the Cowboys' running back; he benefits from split safety looks created by their elite receivers and light boxes, had a high success rate, and Next Gen Stats ranks him top 10 in rushing yards over expected per carry, indicating he maximizes available blocking.
Insight pageJayden Daniels
NegativeRole56:00
Daniels is back with the Commanders under a new offensive system under David Lau that will transition from no-huddle, gun-heavy option runs to more under-center, outside-zone looks with multiple tight ends—a dramatic shift that resembles the Lions' approach. This system change should reduce his scrambling and design run workload. Last year Daniels scrambled 16% of the time, the highest rate by a significant margin and higher than his rookie year; while some of that was due to lack of pass catchers, he should scramble less going forward under the new Ben Johnson scheme.
Insight pageNegativeProjection63:51
Mina Kimes notes that Jaden Daniels felt less accurate last year even when clean and with time, with some of the touch that made his rookie season magical appearing to fade; she hopes this was injury-related rather than a mechanical decline. However, Kimes also emphasizes that Daniels is really good operating pre-snap with quick ball release and accuracy in a set-it-and-forget-it style (similar to Peyton Manning and Joe Burrow), and questions whether he wants or is good at operating with more motion and no-huddle elements.
Insight pageJohn Bates
PositiveRole56:00
Bates is a very good blocking tight end in the Commanders' offense, which fits perfectly with the new under-center, outside-zone system that emphasizes multiple tight ends and blocking ability. His skill set aligns well with the Ben Johnson scheme.
Insight pageJohnny Mundt
PositiveRole3:40
Johnny Munt is a sneaky signing who addresses a critical Eagles offensive weakness from last year: tight end blocking ability. The Eagles' tight ends, particularly Grant Calcaterra, struggled with blocking, and Munt's blocking ability is essential for the new Shanahan-style offense to function properly.
Insight pageKaytron Allen
NegativeDepth Chart56:00
Allen was drafted by the Commanders and is part of the running back rotation alongside Rashad White and Bill Cross-Gabera.
Insight pageMakai Lemon
PositiveRole3:30
Makai Lemon, drafted in the first round by the Eagles, is a zone-beating specialist and naturally finds spaces in zone coverage; he fits the Eagles' new Sean Mannion Shanahan-style offensive scheme designed to address their weakness against zone defenses from last year.
Insight pageMalik Nabers
NegativeInjury40:51
Malik Nabers suffered a Week 5 injury last season and underwent a concerning cleanup surgery in spring; he is currently in the recovery phase with uncertainty around his availability. Despite being the Giants' ticket to explosive plays—the only player who can command a game with 170+ yards and two touchdowns in a single outing—his injury status makes him a pivotal concern for the entire offseason.
Insight pageSaquon Barkley
PositiveUsage3:39
Saquon Barkley has been underutilized in yards-after-catch situations in the Eagles offense; the new Sean Mannion scheme is specifically designed to get easy options set up for yards after the catch, which should benefit Barkley's skill set and create more explosive opportunities for him.
Insight pageTyler Booker
NegativeProjection64:20
Mina Kimes notes that Tyler Booker showed some flashes but is still a little bit heavy-footed; however, the way he can move people on double teams and combos is pretty gnarly, suggesting upside.
Insight pageTyrone Tracy
NegativeDepth Chart45:00
Tracy is listed behind Escabar in the Giants' running back depth chart, with Singletary also in the mix; the backfield situation creates uncertainty around the primary ball-carrier role.
Insight pageFull transcript
Episode Transcript
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0:20To the Mina Kimes Show featuring Lenny, only NFL podcast.
0:23One of the host's favorite defensive coordinator is Vic Fangio, solely because his nickname is Fangs.
0:28That's Lenny who rarely bears his fangs at anyone.
0:30Honestly, it would be a good choice even if not for the joke.
0:34Vic Fangio is one of the best coaches in the NFL.
0:38We're going to talk about him today because we're talking about the NFC East here to join me in my very first division preview of the offseason.
0:46We were just discussing this. It's been a long time since he's been on the show.
0:51Looks great. Camera looks amazing. One of the co-hosts of the athletic football show, Derek Claussen.
0:55Welcome back. Thanks for having me back. I'm honored that this is the first division preview.
1:00It feels great. It's funny too because like for our show we do them as late as possible.
1:06So I'm doing all the prep for the NFC East and I'm probably still not going to talk about it for us for like six more weeks.
1:14NFC East is a safe division to do early on because first I hit you with the AFC North and then I
1:20realized the Browns having an unbelievably cursed quarterback competition means we got away.
1:24I was looking at all the divisions and the ones that have basically quarterback competitions and there's like three or four that
1:31are safe, one of which is this division. We know who the quarterbacks are.
1:35There's not really the only dramatic thing. I think like the Malik neighbors aspect is the thing that's we're going to discuss
1:42the Giants obviously in depth that is going to be a point something to monitor for this division all summer.
1:48But I feel like we kind of know who these teams are, Derek.
1:52We do. Yeah, we know a lot of what's going to happen with these teams and I think it's actually a really interesting division.
1:59I'm really excited to talk about the Cowboys and the Eagles specifically.
2:03I will say I was mildly heartbroken to get moved off the AFC North because I wanted to do a little bit of Carson Schlesinger propaganda.
2:10Oh boy. I'll survive. I can do Jihad Campbell propaganda and I'll be okay.
2:15That's actually like the only thing I want to talk about the Eagles defense because we not the only thing but you
2:21know for those who are loyal listeners to the pod, we've talked about the Cowboys offense and the Eagles defense in top
2:2810 podcast in the top 10 offenses in top 10 defenses podcast.
2:32We haven't talked about the Giants commanders. Neither made either of those.
2:35So I'm interested in getting into those. Let's start with the Eagles though and let's focus.
2:40Let's start with the offense, which I think it's funny because there's two teams in this division that are dramatically changing their
2:47offensive schemes in similar fashions kind of. It's kind of a trend across the NFL.
2:51Obviously it's been a multi-year trend, the transition to the Shanahan tree offense.
2:55But I think with this division, you have two quarterbacks, two offenses where it is a radical transformation.
3:00So let's start with Philadelphia and let's start about the offense.
3:04First of all, quickly to recap the offense, obviously AJ Brown is gone.
3:08So now you're looking at a wide receiver room.
3:10That's really interesting. Fonte Smith, Makai Lemon, they drafted in the first round.
3:14Duntavian Wicks, Hollywood Brown were two big additions as well, kind of competing for that wide receiver three spot.
3:20Tight ends, Dallas Scotter, Johnny Munt, sneaky signing that I loved.
3:23They also drafted Eli Stowers. So it's an interesting tight end group.
3:27Running back room, largely the same. Barkley, Bigsby, offensive line, larger the same, only hopefully with better health.
3:32So the big question, the big elephant, not elephant in the room, something we're going to be talking about a lot, is
3:39whether or not the new offense with Sean Mannion makes sense.
3:42Not just for Jalen Ertz, but I think for the whole group.
3:46The whole group, Derek, it strikes me, if you take quarterback out of the equation, and we'll talk about him in a
3:53second, it seems very obvious, especially as I rattle off that depth chart, that the Eagles front office, Howie Roseman, rebuilt this
3:59depth chart to suit the new offense. Does that not, like when you're just listening to all those players, they all make
4:06so much sense in the context of a Green Bay style.
4:09We can talk about what that means. A Green Bay style offense.
4:13A hundred percent. Because what was the big talking point with Green Bay's offense over the last handful of years?
4:19It was like, I don't know if there's really a star.
4:22The one. Right, but they have seven skill players that they can go to at every different spot.
4:28And so I do, and they literally have taken one with Dontavian Wicks, obviously.
4:32And so I actually do kind of like that.
4:34I want to give them credit for insulating themselves from like the pitfall of losing a player like A.J.
4:40Brown. Obviously, none of these players are as good as A.J.
4:44Brown at his peak. But making sure that you've got bodies on bodies on bodies to make sure we've got at least
4:50playable guys, both at our wide receiver spot, but then again, adding Johnny Munt who can block a little bit, which kind
4:57of a sneaky problem for the offense last year was that like their tight ends could not block.
5:02Like Grant Calcaterra could not do it. Yeah, it just it was bad for a lot of those guys.
5:08And so I think them adding a little bit of an extra oomph there with Johnny Munt I think helps them a lot.
5:15I am interested to see how Hurts potentially moving to more of an under center style offense goes.
5:20He did a little bit more of it last year than he ever had at any point in his career, but still not a lot.
5:28Like, you know, for example, the last two years in general, he was third to last in percentage of his dropbacks from under center is about 7.3.
5:36Jordan Lowe was closer to like 20 percent. So that's like a pretty big jump that he's going to have to take.
5:43I think he he can maybe do it because I think he's a good player on the move for some of those
5:49rollouts and actually do think he's a really good deep thrower like like him connecting to Devonta Smith and A.J.
5:55Brown on a lot of those. Obviously, Brown won't be there, but I do think he has that element of his bag.
6:02So I think if the run game comes back, that style of offense actually might be OK with the way they're trying to put it together.
6:10Yeah. So I think let's let's sorry. I kind of just said Shane Han style offense, but I actually think and I
6:16and I like I talked about this a teeny bit when I talked about the X factors.
6:21It's worth parsing out what that means for this offense, because not all offenses from this tree are the same.
6:27You said something I think is important, which is Jordan Love was under center more, but it was nowhere near the Rams.
6:34Right. Like I like the Seahawks. Yeah. And I think that's a meaningful distinction, because as much as we talk about Jalen
6:41Hurts playing in her center, will he throw up the middle field, all of that?
6:45I actually think Sean Mannion, the offense, if I have all of these offenses, like the Green Bay version of that offense
6:52with under Matt LaFleur, who's a play caller in Green Bay, is actually, I think, the best blueprint for what this can and should look like.
7:00And I think it's really important to make that distinction.
7:03It is not the same. There's some of the things are the same.
7:07You know, the condensed formations, the run game has some similar hallmarks, the way they use motion.
7:12But while there is a large under center component, they also had like a pretty robust play action game out of different
7:18looks, out of the gun as well. The RPO aspect with Jordan Love is something that I think maps on really well
7:25to Jalen Hurts' skill set, as well as the players that they have on this roster.
7:30So I think for Mannion, it's not going to be like, hey, fit this, you know, square peg round hole because, you
7:36know, does Jalen Hurts, was he going to throw over the middle field?
7:40I actually think like there's a way for him to marry the best of that world with the things that, as you said, Jalen Hurts already does well.
7:49I do agree with that. Like those two worlds are closer than we think.
7:53Like the Green Bay team was way more of like a gun run team than I think we imagine when we think
8:00of like the Shanahan-esque style of offense. And they do do a lot of RPOs.
8:04Like Jordan Love is really good at those. And I think Jalen Hurts can be really good at those.
8:10I think one aspect of the offense, you know, obviously there's some a little bit of like, how's the under center stuff going to go?
8:17I'm also very curious. Jalen Hurts is a quarterback who is used to weaponizing no huddle a lot.
8:23Like they started to do it a lot when Kellen Moore was there in 2024.
8:27Did it a lot last year. Jordan Love and the Packers, that's not really what they did.
8:33Love, I think, was a lot better like coming to the line with, you know, two plays, maybe having like a lot
8:39of autonomy to audible check into stuff. And he was kind of like kind of playing commander back there in a way
8:46that like that's not really a lot of what Jalen Hurts has done.
8:50So I wonder how much of that they try to put into the offense because Love is exceptional at that to me.
8:56Like that's why despite that team kind of being up, having its ups and downs, the offensive line not being that good.
9:03There's such a high consistent team because I think Love was able to get that out of them.
9:08Whereas I think some of why Philly has always been up and down over the last couple of years is that's not
9:15so much been a lot of Hurts' game. It's an interesting point.
9:19Yeah, I feel as though the other thing that I think is really meaningful for the other thing that Sean Mannion has
9:25to do to make this successful is find ways.
9:28And this is something where the Eagles offense has been pretty bad at to get Jalen Hurts easy options that are set
9:35up to get yards after the catch. And when you look at this group of skill players, that's what it's built for.
9:41Makai Lemon, Eli Stowers. I think Barkley has been underutilized in this regard as well.
9:46And Smith, honestly, the Green Bay offense when you watch it, I think that's something that always jumps out to me.
9:52It's kind of a checkdowns with yards after the catch and explosives offense combined together.
9:57Like they take, with Matt LaFleur, with Jordan Love, big shots downfield and then underneath options that benefit from the space created
10:03from those big shots, but also benefit from the play design, right?
10:07In ways that you just have not seen in Philadelphia.
10:10It's always a question with the Eagles offense over the last few years.
10:14Does Hurts not do these things because he's not good at them?
10:17Or has it been the play callers who aren't finding ways?
10:21And I think with the middle of the field aspect, that's been mostly Hurts, frankly, more so than I think the play
10:27callers have just recognized that weakness and tried to build the offense around him.
10:32But I think the play callers, particularly like last year, just watching, it just felt like not only were things congested at
10:38every point in the field, but particularly underneath, it felt very predictable.
10:42And to me, like that's when I think about like, where do I see this offense approving particularly early on?
10:48That is something I'd really like to see with Sean Mannion is finding ways to get these guys the ball underneath in
10:54space and making life a little bit easier for Hurts because of that.
10:58I think that's a really good point, because a lot of yeah, what Green Bay did was like they could get into bunches.
11:05They could get into some of these tighter formations and like that's there's a lot of things that AJ Brown is good at.
11:12That's not really like what you want to do with him.
11:16And then even beyond him, they didn't have any good like third receiver that it was nice to like open up for that.
11:22Whereas now on this team, theoretically, your third receiver is some combination of like Makai Lemon, Dontabian Wicks and Hollywood Brown.
11:29Those are all guys that can do something with the ball in their hands.
11:33You know, Lemon and Wicks are like a little bit different.
11:36Lemon is a little bit more of a power player, but I do think that you actually can go three and four
11:43deep into your into your receiver core and actually do some of that.
11:47So I wonder how much of that they actually try to do and kind of lean into being more of like that.
11:53It's kind of a weird way to phrase it, but like a condensed spread passing offense.
11:58I do actually think that that could be good for them because over the last handful of years, even when they were
12:05good in 2024, it's been a lot of like, hey, Devonta Smith and AJ Brown, can you line up on the numbers and just go win?
12:13And I think that worked when they had one of the best offensive lines and run games I've ever seen.
12:19I don't know if that's going to, you know, that's just not really going to work in the modern NFL year over year.
12:26They really attack to like what where they've struggled last year.
12:29Like, you know, this is an offense that was much better against man than zone and has been.
12:34And they like, I think right now when I look at this group of skilled players, I see a lot of zone beaters.
12:41I think that's a lot of lemon, such a friendly quarterback at finding the spaces in zone.
12:47Stowers as well, I thought had some really nice reps in that regard in college.
12:51Devonta Smith, we know how good he is, the precision of his routes.
12:55And so I just think like, OK, you know, I do.
12:58I feel like they really tried to address where were we weak last year?
13:02We need to rebuild this run game from the studs up.
13:06We need to get playmakers who can win in zone.
13:09We need to find players who will work the middle of the field.
13:13Hurts is sort of like then the question, right?
13:15Like, so I think on paper, we think about every way in which this offense struggled last year.
13:21They have all of the answers kind of right now at their disposal.
13:25The question is sort of just whether or not the quarterback fits into that offense.
13:29And I think some of it we just won't know until probably like several weeks into the season, quite candidly.
13:35But I do think while I don't think Hurts is ever going to be a guy who, you know, he is.
13:42He's not going to be Matthew Stafford. He's not going to be Jordan Love to some degree.
13:47I think there's he has enough strengths that if that Sean Mannion can, as we've been discussing, modify this offense in a
13:53way that's suited to those strengths as well as the existing players.
13:57Because on paper, I think like I look at this and I think my overwhelming takeaway, Derek, is like this is enough.
14:04Like this should work. This is a good group.
14:06I think so, too. Like he's definitely accurate enough.
14:09I think even for all his ups and downs over the years, the accuracy has been pretty damn good for a lot of his time there.
14:17He does not generally turn the ball over. He's had like a season or two.
14:21And obviously last year was kind of weird. He famously turned the ball over twice in the same play, which is kind of ridiculous.
14:29But he generally, I think, does a good job at protecting the ball.
14:33And then I think pre-snap, he's actually gotten better.
14:35I think post-snap, like the later in the down, he's holding onto the ball, hanging in the pocket.
14:41I think sometimes his decision making, he'll hold onto things a little bit too long and then just end up scrambling.
14:47But I actually do think pre-snap, taking those RPOs, taking quick game, he actually is good at that.
14:52So if the offense is better crafted to handle that, I actually do think that he could have a pretty good season.
14:59I want to ask you, where are you at with the offensive line, though?
15:03Because this feels like a unit we always just write in stone like, ah, they're going to be top five in the league and they're good.
15:11I'm less sure of that now than I think I ever have been.
15:15It's funny because they're all really high on the scheme.
15:18I don't know if you've been following any of the quotes coming out of the summer from Philadelphia.
15:23But Mailata and Johnson in particular, I've noticed, have emphasized how much they prefer this new scheme.
15:29And Johnson last year was very pointed in criticizing the predictability of the run game.
15:33In a way, when Lane Johnson's done something like that, people kind of in the building pay attention because this is one
15:40of the best tackles of this generation, but also a guy who is pretty deliberate.
15:44And I think there was a feeling that it was just entirely too predictable and defensive lines were able to tee off on them as a result.
15:52Now, they also struggled because of injuries and attrition.
15:55And I think the health on that interior is going to be a massive factor.
16:00You know, Dickerson and Juergens in particular. But I do think this the concept, the idea that this new offense is going
16:06to create run past conflict, which just has not been outside of the RPOs.
16:10And if it's been sort of non-existent in Philadelphia, that I think can help this offensive line look better than they looked
16:17last season, coupled with, of course, improved health. That's where it gets.
16:21That's where I'm trying to parse, like, does that outweigh how I feel about the health?
16:26And also, like. I mean, Juergens got stem cells treatment in Columbia.
16:29Like, that's not a good sentence. That's not a good sentence.
16:32Lane Johnson is getting up there and was obviously banged up last year.
16:36I think Jordan Mailata had, you know, was still good last year, but arguably one of his lesser seasons given, you know,
16:43since he has really come on as a pro.
16:46And so I'm trying to weigh that compared to with what you're saying.
16:50We're like when you do start to have a better scheme.
16:53I mean, look at your Seahawks last year. That offensive line seemed terrible the year before.
16:58Yeah. And you make one change at left guard and then, you know, change the offensive line scheme.
17:03The full season of Abe Lukas, I feel like, was huge.
17:07Right. Getting him healthy. I mean, you know, the under center outside zone game.
17:11Yeah, I think. It's kind of similar to how I feel about Hertz, where it's like this hypothetically should help.
17:17Like this style of offense should hypothetically help solve some of the problems we saw last year.
17:22Should help the offensive line by creating some uncertainty.
17:25But it all has to click on the field.
17:27I think Hertz has to. I think what the way the one I'm sort of dancing around is like Hertz has to really buy into it.
17:35Like this offense, you know, whether it was RPOs or Jordan Love turning his back to the defense, the ball's coming out.
17:42And even though like Love didn't throw that much over the middle of the field, but not like to a great extent, Hertz has to believe that.
17:50Makai Lemon is going to be there in the middle of the field and that, you know what I mean?
17:56He's got to like throw with anticipation in a way that like to your point, like it's just not his greatest strength.
18:03The anticipatory throws are not Hertz's, I think, you know, superpower as a quarterback.
18:07It's accuracy. That's got to change a little bit, right?
18:10Like it's not just that he has to throw over the middle of the field.
18:14I think what I'm saying is he has to throw over the middle of the field quickly with anticipation.
18:20And that will not only that'll help the offensive line as well, because, you know, I have to pass protect us on.
18:27And it really does need to be with anticipation because some quarterbacks can be a smidgen late, but they throw 100 miles an hour.
18:34So it doesn't really matter. Jalen Hertz's arm is passable, but it's not like can make up ground for having been late.
18:41So he really does need to just trust that guys are there, which, you know, I think over the middle specifically, I'm a little bit dubious on.
18:49But I do think that there's a chance that he buys into the system because I think whenever this offense has has
18:55had its dips, it's because it's felt stale with a lot of the same ideas.
19:00And the best that they've ever been with Jalen Hertz was when they pulled someone from outside of the building to come and be the play caller.
19:08And they're doing that again. Obviously, we know way less about Sean Mannion than we knew about Kellen Moore at the time.
19:15But I do think for that reason, there's a decent chance that we can get some good buy in here.
19:21Yeah, if it's I think my where I land is like if if he's I and from what I've heard on league is we're pretty in demand.
19:29And Green Bay didn't want him to leave. And if it's anything close to the Green Bay offense, this is a huge win for Philadelphia bringing him on.
19:37Because I do think I just go back to what I said at the beginning of all of the Channing and offenses around the NFL and their permutations.
19:46And that's the one where I can most easily visualize Jalen Hertz doing many of the things, not just by the way,
19:52Jordan Love, but some of the things that they asked Malik Willis to do as well.
19:57You talk about putting him on the move, giving him options towards the sideline at Malik Willis has kind of a similar
20:04skill set to Hertz in some ways. He's more dynamic and willing as a runner, but, you know, throws a beautiful go ball.
20:11And I think also improved, you saw with under Sean Mannion's tutelage.
20:14And so I do think. As an Eagles fan, there's a case for optimism here.
20:19It does seem like the best possible hire based on what we saw, but it's all speculative at this point, right?
20:25Like it wasn't the play caller and we haven't seen Hertz do this.
20:29So I think I just want to like kind of net where I net out is on paper.
20:34I like everything the Eagles did this offseason on offense, but we got to see it.
20:39Yeah, that's where I land. I like it all.
20:42No idea how it's actually going to come together.
20:45Defense. I know that how it's going to come together.
20:48It's going to be great. This was it. I had them fourth.
20:51You know, I think the woolen edition is awesome.
20:54I love what I'm hearing about, like Dijin playing nickel, but playing safety in their base packages.
20:59A little bit worried about safety. You know, I think the loss of Reed Blankenship is something maybe that's a little slept on.
21:06He's really good. He's one of those like the more I watch film this.
21:10Yes. Reed Blankenship. The more I watch film this offseason, just like every team around the league.
21:15I'm like, man, every time I put on Eagles defense, I was like that dude is balling.
21:21Benefitted from playing with studs. But guess what? Right.
21:23There's my plans where I'm like, it's funny because Darnold is kind of like this where I'm like, you just choose well.
21:30Like he went from like Minnesota to Seattle, you know, like, and I think like a chip cheese as well.
21:36The rich get richer. The rich get richer. Jonathan Grenard talked about this as a replacement for Jalen Phillips.
21:42Very hilarious. Like big fan joke clearly has a tight, tight, you know, acquisition.
21:46Not the deepest group of pass rushers. You've got Hunt.
21:49They added AJ Epinesa. You mentioned a player I want to talk about, though.
21:53So one of the players they did lose was Nolan Smith, who kept Jihad Campbell off the field.
21:58But we did see a bit of Jihad Campbell.
22:01He played some. He made some splash plays early in the season.
22:05I know you have an affinity for linebacker play.
22:08We were talking about Carson Schlesinger earlier. So I'd love to hear what you thought of Jihad Campbell when you did see
22:14him last season and how you feel generally about him in this offense or this defense.
22:19Pardon me, next year. I think that he's a really good player.
22:23And I think part of why they didn't want to start him early and like ended up putting N'Kobe Dean in a
22:29lot more when Dean came back is like Dean is just more familiar.
22:33And I think that Vic Fangio does really value that.
22:36I meant N'Kobe Dean. Thank you. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
22:39N'Kobe Dean just like there was there was a little bit more consistency in coverage, like knowing when to take back crossers
22:45and making sure he's getting the right depth in his zone.
22:49There was just a little bit more like the bolts were just a little bit tighter with N'Kobe Dean, which, yeah, he's
22:55been in the league for four years, been in the Fangio system for two years.
23:00But still, I think Jihad Campbell, what really shocked me was when he came out of college.
23:05I was like, man, his coverage is crazy. And he's just built like the prototype.
23:10You know, he's like 6'3", 240, runs like the wind.
23:13And it was like a potential play. And I was like in run defense, you know, I was like, he's good, but
23:19might need a little bit of work. I watched him as a rookie, as a run defender, and it was just way
23:26better than I thought it was going to be.
23:29I think his recognition is very good. Like he just has a good understanding of when to step down.
23:34He triggers really fast. He does not waste his steps, which that's a huge thing.
23:39Like when we think about how fast things have to happen for a linebacker, if you waste one step, you're out of the play.
23:46Like you're going to miss your spot and the lineman's going to beat you there.
23:51And I think he did a much better job of that than I thought.
23:55But what really blew me away with him, I think he's already has a very sophisticated understanding of how to deconstruct blocks.
24:01Like the way that he gets under his hips and like fires into linemen or knows how to swipe or if he
24:08needs to know like, oh, actually the best thing to do here is to dip under the guy and get under him.
24:15Which, by the way, sometimes you see that he's like clearly a former defensive end because he just like dips and rips like he's rushing the passer.
24:23But I just think he has a very, very sophisticated way of knowing how to get off blocks, which you just don't
24:29see for young players, which gives me like a high degree of hope that he's going to be a very good player down the line.
24:37Yeah, I think the two things I felt watching him again, limited snaps last year, the athleticism was very obvious, like to
24:44the point where if you didn't know and players are, you know, no names on the jerseys, you would point to him just that he's moving different.
24:52And then the instincts and this kind of cuts to what you said in terms of his ability to feed blocks some
24:58of his instincts in coverage, I thought as well.
25:01I was really impressed by because that's just really hard, man.
25:04Like when you're a young linebacker and Fangio puts a lot on their plates, you're going to be out of position a lot.
25:11And there were a couple of moments where he was, but I also thought there were a few moments where he was
25:18in like in position to make play and he made some plays.
25:22The flashes are still crazy. So I, I'm there.
25:24I'm still, I was extremely high on him out of the draft.
25:28I remain very high on him. I think cars, this message or be damned.
25:32It's a very hard position to play when you're young.
25:35And it's funny because like the Eagles have had, you know, obviously there are two corners from that draft.
25:41Kweeney Mitchell and Cooper Jean were stars immediately. But for the most part, this team actually has this kind of like his, you know, it takes a second.
25:49There's a lot of examples of them kind of red shirting player.
25:53I guess Carter was a stud right away too.
25:56Which brings me to Carter, by the way, because kind of a weird year last year.
26:00Got off to that insane start with spit gate in the very first minutes of the NFL.
26:06I actually missed that live and was so confused when I came back and I was like, where did he go?
26:12It was so insane. It was, yeah. You know, he is in position to be like the highest paid defensive tackle in football if he plays his ability.
26:20They extended Jordan Davis. He still got Moro Jomo.
26:23This is still a very strong defensive line. And that's, that's, you know, how they're built.
26:28They have, they have good ends, good edges, good complete edges.
26:31But this, the defensive tackle group in this team is supposed to be the strength of this team.
26:37I'm not worried about him. I think I've seen enough out of Jalen Carter at this point in his career to believe
26:43that he can be a top five defensive tackle.
26:46Yeah. The flashes have been so good and he's been so good for the handful of years that he's been healthy that
26:53I'm willing to give him like one mulligan of like, yeah, you were clearly not healthy.
26:57We'll come back and reconvene when, when you're good.
27:00All right. Is there anything else you want to talk about the Eagles defense?
27:04Cause I talked about the secondary already. I think, um, you know, like I said, safety is a little bit of a question mark.
27:12Um, are you a Makuba fan or where you come down on?
27:15Uh, I, I like Andrew Makuba. There are times where he just is not big enough to do the things that he
27:22wants to do, but I still admire him for, for trying them.
27:25I do think if there's any position on this team that I'm worried about, it is probably the safeties.
27:31Cause again, re-blankenship, I think played really well. Um, I do fine.
27:35Right. And Epps is okay. He's been a starter for them before at certain times.
27:39So it's not like they're going into, into the wilderness completely.
27:43I do still think, even though I'm a little bit worried about the safeties, the edge, like they have bodies, but they,
27:49they still, it's, it's not like the best room.
27:52I still think that if I was picking a non Houston or Seattle defense to be the best in league, it probably is Philadelphia just because I trust.
28:00I think over the, I, I, I guess the Rams does get really tough because miles Garrett is, is incredible.
28:06Okay. Maybe it would be the Rams just because they actually do have that ACE.
28:11I guess that would depend a little bit on like Carter's health.
28:15Right. Cause I think Carter is probably the closest that the Eagles would have defensive line wise and pass or fries to
28:21get, to get to what Carter is, but, or to get to what Garrett is.
28:26But first or second on that line. Do you think that was too flip of me to be like, eh, they got
28:32Phillips in, or they got the closest thing to Jan Phillips and Jonathan Grenard.
28:36I mean, I just feel like your Nard is awesome.
28:40Like he's a great player and they're really similar players.
28:43I don't mean to be pat about it, but like it was the least surprising thing in the world to me.
28:49And I think it's easy to not feel as excited about it.
28:52Cause I think Grenard had like three sacks last year, whereas like Phillips had a little bit more of like a high nodal ride a year.
29:00But before that he had 12 sacks and he was one of the best pressure players.
29:05And he was still a really good pressure player last year.
29:08Was he, when he was healthy. And so I do think that them doing a close ish one for one there is good.
29:15And then I don't think their edge depth is great, but I do think Arnold Abichetti and AJ Epinesa is better than what they had last year.
29:23Like it's a better, like Brandon Graham was getting snaps for them last year at this age.
29:29Yeah. Right. They're kind of doing the same thing at edge that they're doing at receiver, which is like, let's just get a bunch of guys.
29:36Like let's just throw bodies at this and get capable players and not have to call Brandon Graham out of retirement again.
29:43Yeah. I'm not worried. I also just think the corners are so elite that it'll compensate and buy, buy the pass rush time.
29:50So, uh, all right. Eagles, very interesting offense. I mean, I think the optimistic case too, for the team generally is that
29:57the defense is so elite that even if there's like a little bit of an adjustment period for the offense early on,
30:03and I think there could be the defense can kind of hold serve.
30:07And I think that's realistic. Like I I'm such a believer in this defense.
30:11So not worried. Um, let's talk about the giants next.
30:14Cause I haven't talked about them at all this off season.
30:18And I, there's, I'm, there's a few things I'm interested in discussing with you.
30:22I mean, this is entirely, there's a lot of change in New York, new coaches.
30:26Let's do the defense first. Cause it's, well, let's just do the defense first.
30:31Um, very different, right? Different defensive tackle group. Dexter Lawrence is gone.
30:34Rakeem Roon is new as Rochas are injured. So they kind of did their best to replenish it.
30:40Shelby Harris, DJ reader. They've got Darius Alexander. Edge.
30:42We've got Brian Burns opposite Abdul Carter. They kept cave on Thibodeau for now.
30:47Uh, and then on the inside, this is the biggest change.
30:50Of course, linebacker is now Tremaine Edmonds and Arvel Reese.
30:53Uh, on the backend, actually not as much change.
30:56Adebo Newsome. If you have to be on to bank says chance, they drafted Colton hood, drew Phillips, still the nickel and safety is the same.
31:04Although they did at our Darius Washington. So, uh, he's always a fun little player.
31:08Um, okay. I, so we all know the Dolphins, the Giants, pardon me, had the worst run defense in football last year.
31:1532nd in DVOA. They allowed 75, 10 yard plus runs.
31:18She's the most in the NFL by 10 runs to, uh, the jets spills and commanders allowed 65.
31:23That's how bad it was. I'm first and second down 5.3 yards per carry.
31:27I mentioned this, uh, when we did the top 10 defenses pod, but the biggest L I took last year was believing that the pass rush was enough.
31:36It's such a, the Giants are just a case study for run defense matters.
31:40Cause it's pass rush was seventh and pass rush win last season.
31:44Uh, and like all of the individual players actually all played really well too.
31:48And we'll talk about them in a second, but it turns out it doesn't matter if you're allowing 5.3 yards a clip on early downs.
31:55Well, again, that's the funny thing too. Like that, the pass rush was exactly as good as you could have possibly hoped.
32:02Like Abdul Carter was outstanding. Brian Burns was like borderline all pro type of season.
32:07Like cave on Thibodeau is like, I know that he's not as exciting as he should have been for like a fifth overall pick.
32:14But if that's your third guy, like he actually still gives you pretty dang good snaps.
32:19Like he's a good NFL player. Yeah. Like he can play.
32:22So I went back and watched some of the, the run, the explosive runs quite a few.
32:27Actually, I went down like a sick rabbit hole of just watching them over and over.
32:32I would just be yelling at my, my screen the entire time.
32:35And this is, uh, and I feel bad cause I don't remember his names, but I texted Ben at some point.
32:4253 is doing war crimes out there. That's the other linebacker.
32:45Who's not. Oh, uh, Muasa. The linebacker play. We were talking about, as I earlier about how much you love linebacker play.
32:52You love linebacker play. Generally, we were talking about John Campbell and stress center.
32:56The linebacker play in New York last year was probably the worst in the league.
33:00And that's a leak. Well, the bangles there, but there were, there were a couple of real bad ones last year, but the giants were up there.
33:09They were absolutely up there. Was not just in the run game, but we'll focus on that for a second.
33:15Atrocious. And it was a team wide failure. But when you want to ask me how you get to 75 yard, 10 plus yard runs, just insane.
33:23Miss tackles, bad angles, guys in the wrong gaps guy.
33:26Like it's, it was so bad. So I think the entire question of this defense is, is the wholesale change at linebacker
33:32enough to bring this run defense and are just generally closer to competent enough so that the pass rush, which I remains an incredible strength can actually matter.
33:41That's to me, that's to me, the whole thing.
33:44Maybe because I think part of the complicating factor is like, I think the defensive line talent is worse.
33:49Like they lose Nunez Roches, Roy Robertson Harrison, Harris, actually, I think tore his ACL or his Achilles.
33:55That's yeah. But Nunez Roches is gone too. So it's like both of them are gone one way or another.
34:01However, obviously Dexter Lawrence is gone. And so they replaced him with like passable players.
34:05And like, you know, DJ Reader is getting up there, but he's still, he's still solid.
34:10Shelby Harris, same thing. But I do think they took a step back there.
34:14I do think why the linebacker change can maybe work is, is the way that they've constructed their front, especially with the edges.
34:21Brian Burns, Abdul Carter, Kayvon Thibodeau. They're not really edge setters.
34:24They are penetration players. And you can, you can have a really good defense that way.
34:29Like Denver is this way. Jonathan Cooper and Nick Benito.
34:32All they're doing is getting in the backfield. But they have backers and safeties, which I'll talk about in a minute, that are really, really good.
34:40Like, can they, yes, they can clean up problems.
34:43They can solve issues. Giants linebackers were not doing that last year.
34:46I do think Arvel Reese is a special enough athlete and a good linebacker prospect.
34:51Like, like obviously we talked about him mostly as an edge coming out.
34:55Right. But like his pure linebacker tape, I would have taken him top 10 off that.
35:00Like, like just based off being an awful. So I do think that he can actually fix some problems for them.
35:06It, it was, I think the thing that struck me watching it.
35:10And then I went down, I watched. I watched the defensive line just generally a couple games, just out of curiosity.
35:16I think new England was one of them. The chargers.
35:19And you made this point. The pass rushers were so good, but they're so similar, particularly Burns and Carter that you can't
35:26have those two pass rushers without the rest of your front compensating them some degree.
35:30And it was like a horrible build, I think, which Joe Shane looking at you, right?
35:35Like it was like, oh man, these are like awesome pass rushers, but they're not edge setters.
35:40I think Thibodeau is the more complete one, but then he's a little, he's not as good as a pass rusher as the other two.
35:48Um, and so, yeah, it was just like all around like a bad build, you know, I have a take, which maybe
35:54after watching to the front that it might, it might not age well, or I don't know.
35:59I think Abdel Carter is better than Brian Burns.
36:02I think he's so good at rushing the passer.
36:05Mm-hmm. I don't think that that's crazy. I don't think that that's crazy.
36:09I think he is a stud. Like I, I started.
36:12Yeah. So at first I watched those games and then I went, I just watched all of his pressures and look, and
36:18after watching the run defense, there's some tackles, some misdiagnosis, some overaggressive pursuit.
36:22There's problems. He's a, he's a gambler in run defense.
36:25Like he's just trying to get back there. But holy smokes.
36:29He only, he only, I think he didn't get a lot of attention since rookie season because he only had like four sacks.
36:36So he should have had over 10 on tape.
36:38There's trying not to be overly, uh, be hyperbolic here.
36:41His, the, first of all, his like incredible get off the juice South line of scrimmage is unbelievable.
36:47I think he's already got like a pretty, and it shows up by the way to, um, not just when he's rushing
36:53me outside, but like on stunts, there are moments where he, it looks like he is teleporting.
36:58Uh, and you know, like the miles Garrett clip from a few years ago.
37:03I, the player he actually reminded me of a little bit watching was a bond Miller.
37:07Um, there's a rep, there's a rep against, I think it was the lions where he doesn't sack Jared Goff.
37:14So again, it's like, he should have, he jerk off, like throws it away.
37:18He gets so parallel to the ground that it looks like he's levitating as he gets under the left tackle.
37:24And I mean, so like I said, the juice, I think he's key.
37:28I saw tons of guys has a nice spin move, the armor over the tip, and then the agility on, like he,
37:34to me has all of the tools to be a double digit every year sack player.
37:39I think he's so talented. Um, yeah, I think like a giant fans, you should be thrilled about him based on what I saw.
37:46He wins in more ways than Brian Burns. I think like right now, Brian Burns is like the best purely off the
37:53edge, like one trick pony, just beat you like immediately type of guy.
37:57But I do think Carter has more ways to win, like his ability to like the way that he can like torque
38:04his hips and just like shoot one hand into you.
38:07And then he's, he's on you. It's like Vaughn Miller, like why Vaughn Miller works being a kind of undersized player.
38:13And actually, this is true of Micah Parsons as well, is because pound for pound, they are like obscenely strong.
38:19And Micah, I think Abdul Carter absolutely has that to his game.
38:23And I do think that's kind of why him being the gambler in the run game that he is actually does work
38:29is that if you're going to do that, you need to be able to get so deep into the backfield so fast
38:36and be able to fight through a linebackers block that you actually do cut off the play.
38:41But he actually is strong enough to do that.
38:44Like, I think early in his career, like Nick Benito actually didn't have that and he had to get a little bit stronger.
38:51That's why it works more for him now. I'm glad you mentioned the play string because, yeah, like when he lost in
38:57run defense, it was not like him getting thrown out the club.
39:01It was a lot of over, like I said, over-ed regression or misdiagnosis sometimes versus option offenses.
39:06And so, again, hopefully better linebacker play will help with that.
39:09Talked a lot about Arval Reese already and his fit at linebacker.
39:13You know, this is not a great secondary. I'm not going to sugarcoat it.
39:17Like, it's just not. I'm intrigued by Colton Hood, but I think it's going to take him a second.
39:23Greg Newsome. I don't know. I want to see if they can – Denard Wilson, who's a new defensive coordinator, can get
39:29more out of Drew Phillips, who looks really good his rookie season and then took a step back.
39:35Tyler Newman as well. Javon Holland and Adebo, I think, are quality players.
39:39And Wilson, I think, is the case for maybe some improvement there on the back end.
39:44You know, he was in Tennessee. It's not his fault.
39:47But some of those guys played better than they had any business playing.
39:51Like, honestly, what he got out of their safeties, Amani Hooker and Xavier Woods, I actually think was pretty impressive.
39:57That team just didn't have enough corner talent for its really matter.
40:00It was – so I was looking back at – to prepare for this, I was like, let me look at some of the Tennessee defense numbers.
40:08And I was like, let me look at the depth chart.
40:12I forgot they traded away, like, corners. It was – I mean, there were players playing that I just have not heard of.
40:19So, yeah, it's hard for me to make any statement about Denard Wilson.
40:22Comes from the Mike McDonald. He's coached under a few different guys.
40:26Bowles, McDonald. So – but I think Harbaugh obviously knows him from Baltimore.
40:30And I suspect they're going to want to run something a little bit closer to the McDonald defense.
40:35Harbaugh Reese is a huge part of that. Yeah.
40:38And so it'll be interesting. I don't really know.
40:41With all the different scheme changes and different coaches, it's kind of you're trying to predict what things are going to look like.
40:48I don't exactly know because the personnel is so different, right?
40:51Like, he doesn't have the same safeties. He doesn't have a nickel like McDonald.
40:55And the edge room is as different as it could be.
40:59So different, right? I mean, like, you look at this.
41:02This is kind of more like Denver, but like without the DTs.
41:05Like Denver without the DTs and not Patrick Sertan.
41:08What if you made Denver's defense without two of the three things that made them really good?
41:13Yeah. We'll see. I do – I'm optimistic about the linebacker change.
41:17Edmonds, you know, I think is – whatever you think about him at this point in his career is undeniably an upgrade over what I just watched.
41:25So we'll see. Really quickly, Kevin Thibodeau, I also was like – whenever he played, I was like, he looks good.
41:31He's a good player. Yes. He's just not – again, people get – you actually talked about this with – I think
41:38on a recent show about A'shaun Robinson maybe. Oh, yeah.
41:41I was just like first rounder. Yeah, and like not as good as you wanted so you kind of forget about him,
41:47which is where we've gotten with Thibodeau where it's like, oh, he wasn't immediately this 12-sat guy.
41:53And it's like, yeah, he's not a 12-sat guy, but I think over the next five years he's probably going to be
41:59like a pretty like book it six to nine-sat guy pretty much every year, which is like totally valuable.
42:05It was a wrap – I think it was against the Chargers where they had Thibodeau lined up inside.
42:11They had all three of the pass rushers on them, which is the thing they did.
42:15And they all win so quickly. It was the Chargers, right?
42:19But it's one of the funniest – I wanted to clip it because it is that what Abdul Carter, too, on that
42:25wrap does to Austin Deguas, who's playing left tackle.
42:28Speaking of war crimes, I gasped. There's a moment where Deguas like kind of like his legs and arms all go in different directions.
42:35That looks like a crime scene and he's in the midair.
42:39They're very talented. Unfortunately, it's just not a balanced complete defense.
42:42Okay, so the offense – we talked about this.
42:45The only – like we talked about doing this preview early and my one apprehension with this division was Malik Nabors because
42:51it's like – you know, I talked about him when I did my X-Factors.
42:55This whole thing really hinges on 23 place. Because if he does, I think you can paint a picture where this offense,
43:02the line is really improved, the run game looks good.
43:05You know, you made a couple of nice additions, like Lee's a fun pickup.
43:09The receivers aren't amazing, but with neighbors in there, everybody can kind of slot into a more natural position.
43:15If you take him out, it is – it's tough.
43:18It's tough sliding. Yeah, it's like they've got enough guys that you could – the offense could be okay.
43:24But he is their ticket to explosive plays. Like they don't have enough other guys who I think can do that.
43:30And that to me is why like – Right.
43:33I think in the abstract when we talk about players like this, it's like, oh, if he's off the field, that's like,
43:39you know, the Giants are three or four points worse.
43:43Like on the aggregate, like on a per-game basis.
43:45But to me, I think the way that we should think of it, especially with a player like Malik Nabors who is
43:52as explosive as he is, is it's not that every game they're four points worse.
43:56It's that some games they might be 12 points worse.
43:59Because in theory, like Malik Nabors can just have those games where he is by himself getting you like 170 yards and two touchdowns.
44:07And like they just don't have any guys who can do that and really just command a game like that.
44:13And so I do worry about the offense if he's not able to play.
44:17Because again, they've got enough guys that I don't think they're going to be in the dumps.
44:22Like they're going to have passable receiver play. But he's really the only guy on that entire team that detracts attention away from everybody else.
44:30Which is also scarier for me now that I don't know what to do with their run game because of the running back situation.
44:37Yeah, right. So Escadabo actually it seems like has a more normal recovery.
44:41So Nabors – sorry, I guess I should – for those who have missed it, he got injured last season.
44:47I think it was like week five. And then he had a – this was the concerning thing – a cleanup surgery this spring.
44:54And now we're at the phase in the offseason where people are breaking apart clips of celebrity dodgeball games where it looks like he's favoring.
45:01Oh, my God. NFL Live today, we played a clip of Micah Parsons playing pickleball.
45:06We were like, he looks good. Yeah, he's ready.
45:09He's ready to go. But yeah, anyways. Yeah, like so Scadabo, I think, you know, it seems like we'll be fine.
45:15You got Tyron Tracy and Singletary behind him. I think my bigger fear is that with Malik Nabors – if Malik Nabors
45:22is out, Greg Roman takes the wheel here because he's their consultant.
45:25And just this gets really dirty. And I – which I am half joking because I actually think Greg Roman is a very good run game.
45:33Like, my all-airing coordinator. And this on paper, like, could be a decent run game because I genuinely – I know I
45:40started off on kind of a pessimistic note. I do really like the offensive line and how it's coming together.
45:46And Jackson Dart is a very good rushing quarterback.
45:48And this maybe is a good point to talk about him and kind of what we saw out of him last year
45:55because I haven't really gotten into it at all this offseason.
45:58Yeah, like, it was such a weird season for him because he started out so hot and then they lost – and they lost Nabors.
46:06He was still good. And then his play really declined.
46:09But I think that came with a pretty healthy caveat that he was thrown into, you know, Jalen Hyatt and Isaiah Hutchison or whatever.
46:16So what do we make of him, right? I have my thoughts.
46:20I'll go first. I think there was things about him that impressed me and then things were underwhelmed and – but I think he can improve at.
46:28The thing that impressed me the most was I thought he was quite accurate.
46:32Like, I thought he threw a really catchable ball.
46:35When he knew where he was going with it, it was generally pretty well placed.
46:39Mostly – especially like the intermediate stuff I thought was like pretty good.
46:43I think he is a legitimately very good runner.
46:46And I thought that wasn't surprising because I thought that about him as a prospect.
46:51But he is a runner in the Josh Allen mold where he is running, you know, between the tackles.
46:56He's surprisingly elusive at his size. He's not super explosive as a runner.
47:00But he's a very – he like runs really – He's nimble for a guy who's his size.
47:06Well, he runs with like very good vision between the teeth of the defense.
47:10And I remember that was my big take on him as a prospect.
47:14I was like, I love when he steps up and climbs up in the pocket and takes off.
47:19There's questions about whether he should be doing that as much as we can do.
47:24But – so that's the stuff I like. The stuff I didn't – I just thought he was late.
47:29And I think the game was a little bit too fast for him at points as the season went along.
47:35And defenses were able to, you know, force him to process after the snap.
47:40And I think you could see him struggle with that at moments.
47:43And that led to some missed throws and missed opportunities.
47:46I think all of those things, like if we had removed the names from what we were just talking about, it sounds
47:53a lot like Jalen Hurts to me. Like I think that he has a lot of overlap with Jalen Hurts' skill set.
48:00Because again, both very accurate passers. I think a lot of Jackson Dart's misses are because of what you were talking about where he's late.
48:07Or sometimes I think when he gets to like his second, third progression where he's having to move his feet a little
48:14bit, he can get a little bit off rhythm.
48:16And I do think that that is a thing that can come with time.
48:21Like he's obviously coming from an offense in college that was kind of BS.
48:25And it was a lot of like, hey, we're designing up one route for you that is obviously going to be open.
48:31And if it's not there, just take off. And I think he's having to learn the rhythms of the offense and how
48:38that's supposed to go at the NFL level. So we'll see how far that comes along.
48:43I do think if that comes along, he is accurate enough to be pretty good.
48:47At least up until like the 25-yard range. I thought his deep accuracy was pretty bad.
48:52But I also part of that to me is like, well, if I see him with healthy Malik neighbors, maybe that just looks fine.
48:59And like deep ball is such a wide receiver stat that I would like to see that for a full season before
49:06I kill him for that part at least. The brain trust of John Harbaugh, McGee, and Greg Roman.
49:12It's such a funny group. They got to protect him from himself as well.
49:16And that's hard because you just heard me praise his ability to step up in the pocket, climb through the teeth of
49:22defense, something I loved about him in college. And he was a good runner.
49:27He was first in success rate amongst dual threat quarterbacks.
49:30Third in EPA per play. He was tied for Mahomes with runs of 10 yards.
49:34So I guess he was a little more explosive than I said.
49:38But here's the thing. He led the NFL, despite not starting for some of the season, led all quarterback.
49:43And he'd take out sneaks, led all quarterbacks in runs between the tackles.
49:47Significantly more than the next, who was Josh Allen.
49:50Josh Allen has like three inches and 15 pounds on Jackson Dart.
49:54It is simply not sustainable for him to run between the tackles.
49:57And I want to be specific here because when we talk about dual threat quarterbacks, I think we all conflate into like one gigantic thing.
50:05Not all dual threat quarterbacks take the same amount of contact.
50:08Not all dual threat quarterbacks run in the same style.
50:11John Harbaugh is coming from an offense with Lamar Jackson where, you know, I've heard him talk about like, oh, you know,
50:18with Lamar, you know, we had to manage him.
50:21Very different. Very different type of runner. He knew how to never get hit.
50:25Lamar Jackson has the most unbelievable ability to just like take 40 percent of whatever a blow is supposed to be by the defender.
50:32It's kind of remarkable that he's that's why he's been able to sustain as long as he has.
50:37And, you know, I feel the same way about Jane Daniels, who we're going to talk about, but with a different style
50:44of runner, but also just a different build. But like darts got he they just can't.
50:49It can't. And he had the second most design runs behind Taysom Hill.
50:53Like it's not the right company for you just don't.
50:56You don't want that. So I understand it was like and a lot of them were scrambles, too, which is not the
51:02fault of the play caller last year. It's just a variety of like it's not sustainable having a run this much.
51:09And you make a good point, though, like the only guys who have really been relatively sustained runners between the tackles are
51:15Josh Allen and Cam Newton, who are built like defensive ends.
51:19Yeah. Like and Jackson darts not small. He's just that is a clearly different category and caliber of like build and athleticism.
51:25And so I think it's not a knock that he's not on that, but it does change the calculus of how you need to protect your body.
51:33I will say the one other thing other than the processing, I really want to see him get better at some of
51:40his pocket movement is is so it's like just all over the place.
51:44It's very, I think, exaggerated is the word. Like you watch some of the best pocket movers and it's very like subtle movements.
51:51They're barely shifting their feet. They're buying just enough grass without walking themselves into the into offensive tackles.
51:56Jackson Dart will like see something and just like take a leap in the pocket and like hit his own tackle.
52:03And I'm like, we need to let's chill out a little bit and buy ourselves a little bit of time.
52:09Because, again, I think even late into downs, his accuracy is good when he's like online.
52:14I think he just removes himself from good throwing platforms too often because he does things like that.
52:19Yeah, I also. It is interesting to your point, like when it's on time and he's in the pocket, it looks really good.
52:26I think when either I don't like out of the pocket and then also when there's pressure and he's forced to move
52:32inside the pocket is when things break down a little bit.
52:36So I think there's enough there. You know, I was pleasantly surprised by a lot of what I saw.
52:42But I think for this new coaching staff, they got to figure out also.
52:46And that's going to be a lot harder if like neighbors isn't in the building.
52:50So prayers up. Fingers crossed. It's one of the more pivotal injuries, I think, of the entire offseason.
52:56All right. Let's take a break. Come back. And let's talk about the quarterback I just mentioned, Jane Daniels and the commander's new look offense.
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54:57Time to talk commanders. I haven't talked commanders. Dramatic changes in Washington.
55:01Dan Quinn pulling the ripcord. Offensive and defensive coordinator.
55:04New coaches. Which makes this like an extremely interesting and kind of hard team to project in some ways.
55:09Let's start with the offense. So the it's before we get to the coaching staff.
55:14Obviously, Daniels is back. Marcus Mariota. Terry McLaurin. It sounds like Traylon Burks is wide receiver too.
55:19I was reading up on the reports out of Washington.
55:22It seems like they're in. Which like if he works out and like sustains play as like a passable NFL player.
55:28I do think that's like a cool story because he was obviously a massive bust after what had happened in Tennessee.
55:35And so if he has like somehow sustains a career after this, I do hope it works out for him.
55:41And he just maybe needed a change of scenery or the right coaching staff, whatever it is.
55:46He did have some actually pretty impressive moments last year.
55:49Yeah, like the coolest catch of the year. He had some flashes.
55:53And I, well, okay, we'll get to him in the offense in a second and what role he would play.
55:59They drafted Antonio Williams at Clemson. He's a slot receiver.
56:02They added Chig Conquo to the tight end room.
56:04John Bates is there. Very good blocking tight end.
56:07And then at running back, Rodriguez is out. Rashad White is in behind Bill Cross-Gabera.
56:12Katron Allen they drafted. And the offensive line, largely the same outside of the center position.
56:16And Biotis out. Allegretti is going to play center.
56:19So this offense is, I think, maybe the most fascinating because we talked at length, right, about Sean Mannion and the Eagles.
56:26And I think we kind of know what – I do feel strongly that it's going to look a lot like the green defense.
56:33We'll see. I don't know what the hell this offense is going to look like, man.
56:38I couldn't tell you either. So David Lau, he's been in Washington.
56:41He was there as the assistant quarterback coach. Cliff Kingsbury was a play caller.
56:46But he also worked with Ben. He was under Ben Johnson.
56:49Played for the Lions. And everyone is saying it's going to look more like the Lions.
56:54More under center. More outside zone. More, I don't know, multiple tight ends.
56:58All of that. Ben and I talked about this on a fly.
57:01That is so different from what we've seen in Washington.
57:04Arguably more of a transformation than the Philadelphia one in some ways.
57:08I think way more because, like, you know, the Eagles offense is specific in its own ways.
57:13And I think because they've been that way for four or five years now, we've just talked about it at length.
57:19You know, all these different offensive coordinators. It always becomes a Jalen Hurts offense, all that stuff.
57:24I mentioned that Jalen Hurts liked a little bit of no huddle.
57:28He was up at, like, 14, 15 percent or something like that.
57:32On outside of the two-minute, Washington's offense was, like, half no huddle.
57:35They were, like, in their own league and universe in terms of the way that they were doing it.
57:41And I think a lot of that is the way that Cliff likes to run his offense.
57:46But that's technically the only coach that Blau has really worked under.
57:50And we don't have, you know, again, he was with Ben Johnson as a practice squad player a little bit in 2023.
57:56But he was not on the coaching staff. So it's hard to know, like, how much of that he's going to pull from.
58:03Whereas at least with Mannion, there's, like, a clearer idea of, like, okay, he was actually on the coaching staff talking to Matt LaFleur, all this stuff.
58:11And so I do think there is a huge gap to be bridged here.
58:16And I don't know how they're going to be able to do it.
58:20Because I think so many, because so much of the Ben Johnson offense is under center.
58:24It's heavier personnel. It's a lot of motion. This offense was never under center.
58:29They were never motioning. They were always going no huddle.
58:32I think it's just, it's like they're almost trying to play a different sport now, if that's the world they're going to live in.
58:39It, so we talked about how with the Eagles, how the change could help that run game.
58:44First of all, the command run game was actually fine last year.
58:48And obviously it's been good with Jane Daniels, but it's so predicated on changing the numbers through a gun run game where the quarterback's the option.
58:55If Mario is back there as well, right? I think sometimes this gets lost because everyone just wants to smash the under
59:02center button for every offense and run the ball that way.
59:05And there, if you have a quarterback who is a dynamic rushing threat, like Jane Daniels is, there's a benefit to him
59:12being in the gun, which means you can run option stuff, right?
59:16So the, whatever you do as defense, you're wrong.
59:18They can figure out and you get a numbers advantage that way, whether or not the quarterback should keep it or the back should take it.
59:26And also the entire offense defense has to account for the quarterback.
59:30So it's, in some ways, it's a good thing, I think, for them to transition out of that.
59:35Part because, you know, we talked about Dart taking a lot of contact.
59:39Jay Daniels needs to carry the ball less as well.
59:42Although I would say that's less design runs with him and more scrimmage.
59:46I just think he should scramble less, frankly. Even last year, he scrambled 16% of the time, which was the highest rate by a pretty significant margin.
59:54And higher than his rookie year. His rookie year.
59:57I think some of that had to do with the lack of pass catchers, right?
60:01Which was another thing that made it really hard to make anything of Washington's offense last year because McLaurin barely played, fell, you know?
60:09And so, and obviously Daniels had his injuries. But an offense where it's like, okay, we want the running game to be
60:15less predicated on the threat of the quarterback keeping and more about the offensive line, skill players who can block, using motion.
60:22On paper, I get it. I just, I think my question is, do they have the players to execute this?
60:28Yes. Now, I will say, I think they have the offensive line to pull it off.
60:33Because while I, the center is, I meant, you know, I mentioned that when I was a little bit like, oh, interesting.
60:39Biotis was a good center. I kind of like the rest of this group, which is the same.
60:45And I also think the skill players, you have enough size and blocking ability to make it work, Derek.
60:51The offensive line, you can definitely get me there.
60:53Like, Laramie Tunsil is still incredible. Like, he's still so, so good.
60:57Chris Paul really came on for them last year as like a, I think if he's your fourth or fifth best starter, you're in a pretty good spot.
61:05Sam Cosme at his best is really good. Josh Connerly, I still want to see another step, but he was much better
61:12at the end of last year than he was during the first half of the season.
61:17The first half of the season was really, really off, but he did come along towards the second half.
61:22And so, I think with the offensive line, if we assume that some amount of scheme change is going to help them
61:29a little bit, you can get me there with them.
61:32I think the pass catchers, I have a tougher time getting there.
61:36Like, another year of age for McLaurin, especially coming off a year where he's banged up, I think scares me a little bit.
61:43Antonio Williams, I like, but to me feels a little bit like a slot only right now.
61:48And so, I wonder if that is a little bit limiting.
61:51And then I'm probably lower on Chiega Conquo than a lot of other people just because I think he is such a
61:58specific player, which I actually think Chiega Conquo almost makes more sense for the way they had previously ran the offense, where
62:04it was like more spread and don't ask him to block.
62:08Yes. Yeah. Like, it just makes more sense, I think, for him to be that sort of player.
62:13And I almost think that adding Rashad White actually makes more sense for that style of offense, where he's a guy that
62:20is actually really good as like a third down back, both as a pass protector and as a guy that you can,
62:26you know, pitch the ball down to on check downs and stuff.
62:30And so, and, you know, again, adding Antonio Williams, who feels like a slot only, that feels like you would want to
62:37live in more of a spread world. And so, I almost do wonder, even if we've heard some of the Ben Johnson
62:43stuff and the getting under center that they actually kind of had just, they've built the roster again to be more of
62:50a kind of Bengals style offense or the way that, you know, Washington had previously ran it where it is exclusively gun
62:56and we're kind of operating that way. Yeah. I think when I think about the Lions offense, I can see Williams mapping
63:03on to how they use their receivers at times.
63:06And I can envision to like, cause like Laporta wasn't a great blocker.
63:10Right. Um, but they, he was a good route runner.
63:13He was good on like those option routes. And so I think you could, there's like an interchangeability, right?
63:18To the Lions offense that you could see working with some of these players.
63:23But it is still a little bit unclear to me how it all comes together.
63:27And I think one of the interesting to go back to the initial question about David Blau is if he starts trying
63:34to do one thing and then pivots back to more of the Cliff Kingsbury style offense, because that's what fits the player,
63:40including Jaden Daniels, frankly, because that was the thing about Cliff that year one was I was so skeptical of it.
63:47And then watching him watching that offense, which you talked about, spread him out, no huddle.
63:52Daniels was just such a good fit for it.
63:54Right. Cause he like, you know, he is, well, there's a, there's a bunch of things that made sense for him in
64:01that regard, but his rushing threat kind of turbocharged that offense, which we had seen kind of glimpses of at other points.
64:08So I just don't know if, okay. How do I put this?
64:11I said it earlier about the Eagles where I was like, this build makes so much sense for this type of offense.
64:18Like I look at these players, I look at the skill players, I look at the line, I look at everything and I get it.
64:25Like they clearly re geared this towards this vision.
64:28When I look at the commander's depth chart, I don't look at it and feel like it maps onto it as clearly.
64:35And so I'll be interested in seeing how long they stick with it.
64:39Yeah. This feels a little like you have to tell yourself a little bit more of a story for it to be an offense.
64:46That's going to be a little bit different. I also do wonder with Daniels, how much of the no huddle and not
64:52wanting to run a lot of motion, how much of that is actually a comfort thing for him?
64:58Because I actually do like, there are different styles of quarterbacks.
65:01I think kind of like you were talking about with the under center earlier, some people just want to mash that button.
65:08And I think with motion, we also have the same tendency to like, I just do more of it.
65:14It'll be good. But I do think some quarterbacks like less of it.
65:17Like I believe Peyton Manning early at some point in his career talked about like, no, I just want to set it and forget it.
65:25And I'm going to be right. Because I can see it.
65:28And I think Joe Burrow often operates this way where it's like, I just want to set it and forget it.
65:35I'm going to be right. And I do think that Daniels is a little bit more of that style where he's really good pre-snap.
65:42He's really accurate. The ball comes out quick. And I think that he is really good operating that way.
65:48I wonder if, you know, and we'll see this year how much of potentially operating in a little bit of a different way.
65:55Is that something that he wants to do? Is that something he's good at?
65:59You know, we're going to see. So imagine if they add Brandon Ayuk, who I haven't talked about him because I honestly,
66:05who the hell knows what to say? Who the hell knows if he's going to play football or the commanders?
66:11Who the hell knows what he looks like? But if he is even anything close to who he was, you know, at
66:18his prime that got him paid, that's an offense with him, McLaurin and Burke slash Williams that should be spread and shredded.
66:25So, yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see.
66:27I think that's, Blau's got to figure out how it all comes together and how to optimize the quarterback, who I'm still a very big believer in.
66:36But I will say, I do think that the offensive line sets a floor for this offense, assuming that they're healthy, where
66:42if you have Daniels healthy and at least one of the receivers, the offensive line is good enough to where I think
66:49the run game, regardless of what it looks like, will always be pretty good, even if it's more, goes back to more of the gun stuff or whatever.
66:57And that'll, I think, set a floor. That's what I'm saying.
67:01Like, this is not like, you know, we talked about the Giants without neighbors and I was like, ah, I don't feel that.
67:07I think even with some of the uncertainty and questions around this offense, I feel good enough about this line in particular
67:14that they can weather some uncertainty early on. I agree.
67:17I think Daniels in the line makes it hard for them to be bad.
67:21And then we'll see what the offense and the ceiling looks like with some of those other pieces.
67:27I will say one thing, and I want your take on this as well.
67:31Jaden Daniels to me did feel less accurate last year, even when in situations where it felt like he was clean, felt like he had time.
67:39It just felt like some of that touch that really made his rookie season magical.
67:43It felt like it had faded and not even just on like the nine balls.
67:48Obviously, the nine ball stuff was probably always going to be a little bit unsustainable, Oh, yeah.
67:53It felt like his mechanics had fell away a little bit.
67:56So I hope again, that was just like injury related.
67:59Yeah, that's kind of all I'm hoping that I think the case, especially since he was so accurate in college, I think
68:06combination of injuries and then like lack of trust in the receiving group.
68:10And I think you see this all the time with quarterbacks.
68:13We always talk about how like offensive line play affects quarterbacks and they get skittish.
68:18I am firmly of the belief that playing with bad receivers affects quarterbacks as well.
68:22I really believe that. And there were like drops as well.
68:25It was just really ugly. That's a great point because you end up with one of two things.
68:31You either end up with quarterbacks who stop trusting their receivers.
68:34So they do that where they're like, I got to aim it to the perfect spot or it's not going to be complete.
68:41And they do that. Or you get guys like Dak Prescott, Trevor Lawrence, where they're like, I'm going to put it where
68:48it's supposed to be and you better find it.
68:51And then they end up throwing picks because they're not what they're supposed to be.
68:55I don't know who you are. I don't care.
68:58Grandstand four, get ready to learn the Seam ball.
69:00All right. The defense is also fascinating. So major changes to this group.
69:04Quinn completely, I mean, they ripped it up. It is very different.
69:08So defensive tackles, you got big dudes, Settle, Payne, Kinlaw were there and Jai Newton.
69:12But the edges are totally different. And the linebackers also.
69:16So at edges now, we are looking at Dorrance Armstrong still there, but they signed both the Doffa Owe and Klavan Chason.
69:22And then the linebacking group is. I love this linebacking group.
69:25Oh, you and me both. So I did this group of linebackers.
69:29Leo Chennault, Sonny Stiles and everybody's favorite demon, Frankie Levu.
69:32And then on the back end, Trey Amos, they added Amik Robertson.
69:36Sainer still hopefully plays better in the slot. And then they assigned Nick Cross from Indianapolis to play next to Quan Martin.
69:42Let's just talk about, okay, so the new defensive coordinator is Durante Jones, who comes from Minnesota.
69:47Interesting resume, by the way. He coached secondaries for the Bengals and the Vikings, then LSU, back to the Vikings, then got this job.
69:55Um, I've been asking around about him. People are very high on him as a teacher, as a mind.
70:00I think, uh, there's definitely going to be a Flores influence.
70:04We can talk about how that maps on to these players.
70:07But first I want to talk about that linebacker group because you're, you and I, uh, I saw your eyes widen as I mentioned those names.
70:15I think my biggest question is just like, how do you get him on the field?
70:20Like, you know what I mean? Because, um, this is going to be a three, four.
70:25Mm-hmm. Well, lucky for them. Yeah. Lucky for them.
70:27I think all, literally all three of them can play on the edge.
70:31And rush the passer. Yeah. Yes. Like Frankie Levu has always been a guy where like, just get him moving forward.
70:37Just let him do it. Leo Chennault can like, he can set, he can set the edge like a defense.
70:43But like, he is, he to me is like Dante Hightower light where like, he has very similar style of play.
70:50I think he's that kind of guy. Oh, you, I, I love him dearly.
70:54He's, uh, it's, it's a criminal, by the way, if you look at his accolades on like pro football reference, he made
71:01like two pro bowls ever, which is insane. He never made an all pro.
71:05Like I cannot understand that. Greg Rosen's always gives me the shit for this, but I always say you can't tell the
71:12story of football without telling, without talking about Dante Hightower because he literally made an actual play in every Patriots Superbowl that
71:18changed the game and they do not win those Superbowls that, okay.
71:22I just love Dante Hightower. Back to these linebackers.
71:24Um, yeah, I, so that was my thinking as well.
71:27And again, this is where the Durante Moore Flores stuff comes into play too, right?
71:32Because, um, you know, so, so you got to up front with Flores, you just want some big defensive tackles so you
71:39can eat up gaps, extra gaps, and then you want chaos behind it.
71:43And then you want zone defense. That's a very oversimplification of what happens.
71:46Uh, I really think that these linebackers give Durante Moore the sort of flexibility to create some of that chaos with styles
71:53being like, I think, I think he's going to wear the green dot.
71:57Um, maybe the most conventional in terms of how he is used, but yeah.
72:01Like Chanel and Lou, like there's absolutely ways for it.
72:04It's such a fun problem for Durante Moore to solve, which is how do I get these guys on the field?
72:11How do I use them to create uncertainty? Are they coming?
72:14Are they going? Are they setting an edge? We're walking them up at the last second.
72:19Uh, like, you know, Zach Bonson. Like, I just think there's so much optionality with these linebackers.
72:24And I love that they're all on the same team.
72:27And what I like about it too, is that if you're going to be this style of front where we're slashing gaps,
72:33we're, we're doing all these crazy stuff. We're sending five and six man blitzes.
72:38You want these guys to be as fresh and as fast as possible.
72:42And their edge room is like, it's not like any crazy stars, but they are deep now.
72:47Like Louvoo can play on the edge. Like, yes.
72:49Like, Oh, I can rush the pastor. Dorrance Armstrong is a really good player.
72:54Uh, they signed Caleb on chase on. They dropped it last year, dude.
72:58Chase. I was good. He, he, I don't know if we get handed out, but like he should have earned like most improved player.
73:05Like I, it's crazy before those like final six weeks in 2024 was like, just not good to have him out there on your defense.
73:12And then that final stretch with the Raiders and then his year at the Patriots, I was like, he actually, he gives you some stuff.
73:20Yeah. He kind of gives you some stuff, but they've, but again, with Louvoo, they've got five, you know, Chanel can rush the pastor a little bit.
73:28They've got like five or six guys that you can reasonably bring off the edge.
73:33Uh, I think that goes a long way for guys that you can keep fresh.
73:37And even those backers are guys who are obviously traditional stack backers.
73:41So there's a little bit of flexibility, flexibility there, but like chase on, I think you can drop a little bit, like always a little bit thinner.
73:49You can definitely drop in Baltimore. Yeah. A hundred percent.
73:52Like they just, the flexibility with this group is pretty enticing.
73:55I will say what interests me with, with how they're going to do it.
73:59Flores has obviously always been his own guy or at least, well, at least in Minnesota, like previously at his previous stops
74:06in, in like, you know, uh, Miami coming from the Belichick tree, he was a lot more man coverage, but Minnesota's just never had the bodies for that.
74:14I do think that this commander's defense does have the bodies for man coverage.
74:19Like Trey, most I think can do it. And I think a week Robertson actually is a really good man corner.
74:25I don't know how much of it they're going to do, but I think they played a lot last year and they were freaking awful at it.
74:33Um, the commander's defense, but Sander still playing outside was bad.
74:36Right. I don't think that's a good fit for him.
74:39Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, I like Trey almost, I, yeah, that's an interesting question.
74:44Uh, Robertson is an upgrade. There's upgrades across the board here.
74:47Like this should be on, I don't think this is a top 10 defense.
74:51I didn't put them there, but I really think the more I sat with the steps chart and looked at it and
74:58thought about the coordinator and what he brings to the table, I really think we could see some improvements, which obviously not hard.
75:05Cause this was, you know, one of the three worst defenses in football last season in a number of ways, but I
75:12just think what you and I kind of talked about the versatility upfront gets me really excited.
75:17And I think, um, I wouldn't be surprised if more is one of those guys that we're talking about in a couple
75:23of years as an, you know, next head coach.
75:26If, um, if, if what I've heard is correct.
75:29So commander is a lot of change. Interesting team.
75:32I, I'll say this is wrap here before we get to the Cowboys.
75:35If I'm a commanders fan, I'm just glad Dan Quinn ripped it up and brought in outside voices.
75:41Or, or, I mean, I guess blow was in the building, but like there, you know, I, Joe witt jr.
75:47It was his guy from Dallas. I love the fact that there's some change here.
75:51I think that's a really good thing based on what we saw out of this team last year and just got to keep Daniels healthy.
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76:42Dallas Cowboys. So the offense Nate Tice had as the best offense in football.
76:47We don't really have to, you know, get too in depth here because we kind of, we talked about it for some
76:53time when we did the top 10 offenses pod, Cowboys fans.
76:56If you missed that, go listen to it. I guess I'll just ask you, do you agree with, and I want to
77:03talk more about the defense, which I think is really interesting.
77:06Speaking of defensive coordinators that could be future head coaches based on the buzz.
77:11Do you agree with Nate? Are you as high on him?
77:14Do you see any weaknesses on this offense that concern you?
77:17What's your, how do you feel? I think I'd be too scared to rank them first, but I do think that they
77:24are one of the four, five, six offenses that if they finish the year in first, I would not be that surprised
77:31because I do think that there's a world where the offensive line really does start to gel.
77:36Like Tyler Smith is already fantastic, but I think Cooper Beebe is really good.
77:40Uh, uh, steel actually played, I think a little bit better last year.
77:44Tyler Booker will, we'll see. I think he showed some flashes.
77:47I still think he's like a little bit heavy footed, but the way that he can move people on some of those
77:54like double teams and combos is, is pretty gnarly.
77:56And so I do think that there's a world that like that is really good.
78:01And I think part of my optimism with them is that they were one of 10 teams last year to be trailing for at least 600 plays.
78:09Obviously the defense was terrible. And we'll talk about that in a minute.
78:13They were the only team of those 10 with a positive EPA over that span.
78:18So they were trailing for like most of their games and we're still an electric offense.
78:22I think if we get to a world with the defense, which we'll talk about, if they are 20th and just not
78:29putting them in a hole immediately, every single first half, I do think that there's a world that just because just by
78:36virtue of playing in more favorable situations on the scoreboard, you can call some of the stuff that you want to call.
78:42You can have a little bit more flexibility to not maybe have to call first and 10 passes that we wouldn't want to call otherwise.
78:50And I do think that that kind of opens up a lot that like, hey man, they could be cooking with gas like second year in a system.
78:58A lot of young players, one of the best wide receiver duos in the league.
79:03Like there is a lot to be excited about.
79:05Yeah. It sounds like Pickens is going to play, not going to hold it out.
79:10Contract year. We'll go. Keep your fingers crossed. I know some Cowboys fans were a little bit disappointed that they didn't upgrade
79:17at running back, but I think Javante Williams is fine.
79:20And I know that sounds damning fine. I actually, so, okay.
79:23So he obviously benefits from all of the split safety looks that they face because of their receivers and all the light
79:30boxes, if not the most light boxed in football, you know, top two or three.
79:34But, and because of that, he had a very high success rate and the run game was pretty efficient as well.
79:40But next gen stats has him top 10 in rushing yards over expected per carry, which I've generally found to be pretty
79:47predictive and a pretty solid way of calculating whether or not running backs themselves are.
79:52So what that does, for those who don't know, is they're looking at what the average back would gain in a situation
79:58based on the blocking and the position of defense and then whether the running back did more.
80:03And that's saying that Williams, you know, he got the most out of what was available to him and that kind of squared with what I saw.
80:11We'll see if Jaden Blue can be better than he was his rookie season.
80:16They also have Malik Davis too. But I don't, I think if the, the one question I had was Pickens and then
80:22I mentioned Guyton sounds like he's, he's going to be the left tackle over Nate Thomas, who didn't look great last year.
80:29So I just don't, I think if I think the offensive line is good enough in the interior in particular, as you
80:36alluded to is good enough to where they could weather some, you know, an injury here or there, I think lamb and
80:42Pickens themselves are just, it's hard to hard to find flaws with an offense with those two types of players.
80:48I mean, they're so goddamn good. And it wasn't even like lamb's best, like lamb was, was kind of a down year for him.
80:55It was a down year for him and he was still really, really good.
81:00And that too is actually why I'm not that worried that like I, in a, in a perfect world, I think it
81:06would have been great to improve on Javante Williams, maybe get someone who's a little bit more like has a little bit
81:13more gas, but at the same time, like a passing game built with George Pickens, CD lamb and Dak Prescott, you will
81:20get all the explosives that you need. You do not have to worry about getting them out of your running back.
81:26And so again, I think if they're in a better spot on the scoreboard and the run game can be a little
81:32bit more consistent, they can be a little bit more healthy and they're just in second and fours all the time.
81:39I don't think it would be that crazy if they look closer to like what the Rams were last year in terms of offensive efficiency.
81:46The talked about being put in a bad position by the defense.
81:50So let's get to that because it's the more interesting side of the ball to talk about.
81:55A 30 second DVOA last year after adding Quinny Williams, they improved in run defense and got a decent amount of pressure,
82:02but they were abysmal in coverage behind it. So it didn't matter.
82:05Um, made some pretty significant changes starting with defensive coordinator alluded to this Ebru Fluss is out.
82:10They brought in Christian Parker from the Eagles. He's Fangio tree and, um, sounds like this defense is going to look a
82:17lot more like Philadelphia's get to what that means in a second.
82:21Um, defensive tackles room was obviously a strength with, uh, Williams, Kenny Clark.
82:25They moved on from Osa Digizoa, which I actually think I liked him as a player, but I actually think kind of
82:31speaks a little bit to this game change too.
82:34Uh, they added Rashawn Gary, uh, and Malachi Lawrence to rush the passer.
82:38You had Donovan Azaraku, who I thought was decent last season.
82:41Linebacker remains a big question mark here. Uh, Devarian Nova shown is further removed from injury.
82:46Uh, D winters, they drafted Jay Sean Barham. Uh, but the big change is on the backend.
82:51This was a very, very as evidenced by the fact that I, you know, I talked about the past defense, um, bad
82:58secondary last year, and it's going to look very different.
83:01You start with the first round draft pick Caleb Downs, who is now become clear.
83:05I thought this would be the case is primarily going to play nickel, maybe base.
83:10He'll play safety and base outside. You have drawn bland.
83:13And then they added Kobe Durant from the Rams.
83:16Uh, and then they've got revel junior behind him and some other options.
83:19And then at safety, Jalen Thompson and Malik hooker.
83:22So definitely a different secondary. Um, so what, out of everything I've said, what excites you the most?
83:28And then we can talk about what worries you the most, even though it's obviously linebacker.
83:32So I think to me, it's the movable DBs like Caleb Downs is as perfect of safety college tape as you could possibly have.
83:40And again, he's going to play nickel here, but I think he's like in the Brian branch realm where he can kind of just do both.
83:47And it's fine. Um, which actually leads me to a point.
83:51And I want your opinion on this Christian Parker.
83:53I think there's a lot of excitement about him.
83:56There has been for a couple of years now.
83:59And he's, we talk about him a lot in the Fangio mold.
84:03Like obviously he's worked with Fangio multiple different stops.
84:05Um, obviously most recently in Philadelphia, but the longer I look at the roster construction for Dallas's defense, this looks to me
84:12more like a Steve Spagnuolo or Brian Flores in terms of the way that it should be ran with how they have
84:18the corners, with how the linebacker room is set up in terms of like, I think the Fangio defenses and underrated part
84:25of why they work is at their best. The linebackers are often like incredible and really good in coverage.
84:31Like 20, uh, 2011 through 2014 with the Niners, Willis and Bowman in 2018 with the bears, when they were like the
84:37best defense in the league yet Roquan Smith and Danny Trevathan.
84:41Um, and then in Philly, obviously you had Zach Bond coming on the way that he did.
84:46And a Kobe Dean was good. Jihad Campbell was good last year.
84:50Like they've always had backers that could kind of be the glue for the defense.
84:54I don't see that in Dallas right now. Whereas I think their safeties are really movable and I think their front can
85:01create a ton of chaos the way that we've seen from Spags and Flores teams.
85:05Hmm. Well, I, I, it's interesting. I, so I'm a little bit biased by just cause everything he, Christian Parker has been
85:12everyone, but for everything I've read about this defense, this summer suggests it's going to be closer to Philadelphia than anything else.
85:18I think your point about the linebackers is well taken.
85:21It is, it is concerning. Um, by the way, on NFL live today, Jeremy Fowler threw out again, the possibility that they
85:28would trade for Jordan Brooks, which please eyebrows. If they trade for Jordan Brooks, this is, it can be a top 10 defense.
85:35I actually believe that it has that capability. Um, I think we're going to see a lot of nickel and big nickel.
85:42Um, I think safety is now the strength slash, you know, downs, whatever you want to call him.
85:47Uh, and I think there's the hope that with the offense being as electric as we expect, they might be able to
85:54play with a lead and maybe compensate to some extent for what could still be some issues with run defense.
86:00But yeah, I, I, I, I think we're kind of all type.
86:03We're both talking about the same thing, which is, can they compensate for the one weakness?
86:08Right. Which is the edges are fine. I said one weakness.
86:11It's not a great group. We'll see what you get out of Malachi Lawrence.
86:16Sean Gary is fine. He will set an edge.
86:18I think the pass rush can be okay. I do wish they had a star who was on the edge.
86:24Um, but I actually think they have enough that they'll be okay.
86:28I actually liked what I saw out of as a rocker to last year.
86:32I alluded to that. I think he looks like a nice, nice piece for them.
86:37Um, but yeah, I, right now the strength is the defensive tackles and nickel safety.
86:41It's not even like a set of downs. It's not like anyone here is like a star, but they're now it's like,
86:48oh, these are all good NFL players. I think they're just still a few pieces away.
86:53I guess that what I'm saying is like, it's not just linebacker.
86:56They need a few other positions to shore up, to be in that top 10 group.
87:01But do I think that there's enough here for this defense to be average?
87:05Yeah, I do. Um, I do too. I think they've, they've, it feels like they've fixed a lot of holes, right?
87:12Like they've plugged a lot of issues, but I think to your point, other than maybe Clinton Williams, or if Caleb Downs
87:18is just right out of the box, which I think is a lot to put on a rookie safety.
87:24I don't know who you say we are building the defense around this.
87:28Whereas I do think a lot of elite defenses have at least like one or two guys where you're like the whole
87:35ship is built out of what they are capable of and we'll kind of bend the scheme to that.
87:40Whereas I'm not a hundred percent sure I, these guys have these players.
87:44Maybe if Quentin plays at that level. Well, I think we're kind of also talking about the same thing, which is okay.
87:51When you think about Christian Parker coming from big fan geo and you think about the way it sounds like they're going
87:58to use downs, which is kind of primarily a nickel, you know, it's, it's a very modern thing right now.
88:04Right. It's like, if you have a nickel, who's like a, just a dog against the run, who you also trust to defend tight ends and slot receivers.
88:12If you have Cooper Dejean or Nicky Manwari, you can play the current meta, which is you can, you can stop, um,
88:19offenses from a split safety structure with light boxes, living in your sub packages.
88:23Even if they put an extra tight end on the field, et cetera, those offenses or defenses have very good linebackers.
88:29And I think that's when I look at this and I ask, what would it take for this defense to get closer to those?
88:36If you dropped in a Jordan Brooks or really great linebacker.
88:40And then I would look at Quinn and Williams, the defensive tackles are strong, similar to Seattle and Philadelphia, who, by the
88:46way, don't have like miles Garrett's either linebacker nickel.
88:49That's the same that then you're like, Oh, this is, this looks like that.
88:53I feel good about this. It's just missing that one player, a Jordan Brooks or, or what have you.
88:59It Jordan Brooks is the idealized version. Do you know what they could have done?
89:04And maybe this is hindsight because obviously the, the off season is done now.
89:08I do think it has like a one year solve the issue.
89:11Like DeMario Davis would have been like a pretty good solve the problem here for a second.
89:16Obviously he's towards the back end of his career.
89:19Who knows how many good years he, he has left in him, but he is a really smart coverage player.
89:25And I do think would have been able to handle the green dot well and all the, how, how much this defense needs to communicate.
89:33He would have been able to do that. But it is why, like, again, the Fangio defense has, when they've been operating
89:39at their best or the Fangio-esque ones, like obviously Mike McDonald traded for, they traded for Roquan Smith when he was in
89:46Baltimore and then traded for Ernest Jones when he was in Seattle.
89:50Like it's clearly an important part of the way they do this.
89:53We'll see. Still some summer left. Something could happen here.
89:56I really feel like we could wrap here. Like I, I'm not saying like Jordan Brooks is good.
90:02He's not like, you know, Fred Warner or whatever, but.
90:05But he's Ernest Jones. I would feel very comfortable putting them on top of the division if they had, if they added a linebacker.
90:12Is that too much to put on a single?
90:15Because this offense is going to be so good.
90:17It might not matter. Which brings us to the end, which is when we rank the teams.
90:22I actually, I wanted to wait until we talked about, because I, you know, I view this as a two-tier division.
90:29And I, and I like, so there are the Eagles in the Cowboys or opposite ends where I feel that the Eagles
90:35have a top five defense and some questions on offense.
90:38The Cowboys have a top five offense and questions on defense.
90:42So it's like, what do you feel better about in terms of the opposite side of the ball approaching average?
90:48I think in the non Jordan Brooks world, I probably think it's more likely we get like average Eagles offense than we do average Cowboys defense.
90:56And I like the trajectory for the Cowboys defense, but I think to your point, probably a year or two away.
91:02Whereas I do think with the right things falling in line this year, the Eagles offense could just, again, not be like
91:092024 levels, but they could be pretty solid. Yeah, I think so.
91:12I, I, I felt like at the end of talking about the Eagles, I felt pretty good about it.
91:18So, um, I'm going to go Eagles, Cowboys, commanders, giants.
91:21Oh, that's boring. That's exactly what I've got. Uh, yeah, we'll see.
91:25And like the commanders are a wild card, man.
91:27Cause it's just, they're just, it's just like, I, they're one of the teams where I'm just like, I really, this could go a lot of different ways.
91:36I know the coaching changes, but I do like some of the things they did and boy, those linebackers are going to be fun.
91:43Sonny styles. Excited for him. Um, Derek folks can find your work at the athletic football show.
91:48Of course you podcasting all summer. Oh yeah. All summer.
91:51It almost four, sometimes five episodes a week during the summer.
91:54Like we, we, we've been getting at it. Yeah.
91:57Well today, today we actually recorded like a, we did like a Canton court and a week before that we did like a hall of very good.
92:05So it's, it is, we're at the point of like where it is definitely middle of the summer type of content, but,
92:12um, uh, we're, we're, we're doing good stuff. Yeah.
92:15Uh, next week I will start my annual power ranking series, the power hour where I have a guest on to help me power rank the entire NFL.
92:23I actually just did my power king. It's hard this year.
92:26I really struggled with the top 10. It is.
92:29Yeah. I don't know. Uh, it'll be interesting to see how that shakes out.
92:33Um, so folks can check that out. That will drop Monday morning.
92:37We are returning to the twice a week podcast cadence.
92:40Oh wait. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. And then the, uh, the AFC East on the other side of that.
92:46Um, so check that out wherever you get your pods.
92:49Also, if you watch love Island, you can check my love, my TV recap show with David Dennis Jr.
92:54Viewer discretion. We are recapping love Island, which is its own sport.
92:58Uh, do you ever see love Island content? Derek and just think there's a whole nother world out there.
93:04It kind of. So actually what's funny is, uh, my girlfriend, her best friend is really into like love Island and love
93:10Island esque shows, but she does not really get sports.
93:13And she was explaining. And I don't really get those shows.
93:17Like I don't watch them very much, but she was explaining to me how it kind of is like a sport.
93:23And like, there are plays like plays that people do in schemes that people put together.
93:28And then I was trying to explain to her that like sports are kind of like a drama in the way that
93:34some of those things are, where it's like caring about the player's stories is like really important.
93:40So it was like, we found this like weird middle ground between love Island esque shows and like what I do for, for a living.
93:47It was really funny. I love that. Well, there's a guy in love Island who looks exactly like Kyle Hamilton.
93:53So there's a handsome man. Kyle's Hamilton's a handsome man, but he's, he's, he's a villain to the point where I posted that.
94:00And then the Ravens posted it and the fans are all really mad at me.
94:05They're like, don't give Kyle or baby Kyle Hamilton to him.
94:08Um, all right. Well, that was really fun. NFC East excited for a lot of this stuff.
94:13AFC is next week. Uh, thank you as always to the folks at Omaha productions, Kirsten, Becky, O.S.
94:18Taylor, Tucker, Tash, Tash, and Jack Foster. See you guys next week.
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