Shough on You: Previewing the NFC South
STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.
1 hr 28 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 29, 2026
Published
Wed, July 29, 2026
23
Player insights
19
Players mentioned
Topics
Baker MayfieldChris OlaveZachariah BranchBijan RobinsonBucky IrvingChris GodwinDavid NjokuDrake LondonJalen McMillanJordyn TysonJulio JonesJuwan JohnsonKenneth GainwellKyle Pitts
Player analysis
Player insights
Baker Mayfield
NegativeRole6:52
Mayfield is playing on a below-average quarterback contract and feels he earns more; Mina Kimes notes he is at his best when he has a chip on his shoulder, suggesting the contract dispute could fuel his performance.
Insight pageNegativeRole14:09
Baker Mayfield is among several key free agents (Cody Mock, Yaya Diaby) coming up for Tampa Bay simultaneously, creating uncertainty about the direction of the team's build. Mina Kimes emphasizes the team is in a win-now situation in a very winnable division after a disappointing 2024 season that saw them miss the playoffs.
Insight pagePositiveProjection23:00
Mina Kimes notes that Baker Mayfield was 31st in air yards per attempt in 2024 (6.7) but jumped to almost 8 air yards per attempt in 2025, and emphasizes that good things happen when Baker pushes the ball downfield. She believes new offensive coordinator Zach Robinson can help get the 2024 version of Baker back by bringing down the average target depth and leveraging play action, where the Bucks were 8th in EPA per play (0.29) versus 25th when not using play action (−0.03).
Insight pageBijan Robinson
PositiveProjection49:08
Might be the best running back in the NFL; elite talent that makes Falcons' offensive line look better than it actually is; key piece of Falcons' offensive identity with Bill Callahan as offensive line coach; if Callahan can replicate his best work, Robinson with Callahan's scheme sounds incredible.
Insight pageBucky Irving
NegativeRole22:30
Mina Kimes discusses Bucky Irving in the context of Tampa Bay's run game recovery. She notes that Irving was hurt last season, which contributed to the run game's decline from 8th in DVOA to 26th, but sees potential for improvement if the offensive line gets healthier. Irving is part of a backfield with Kenny Gainwell and Sean Tucker.
Insight pageChris Godwin
PositiveProjection26:00
Mina Kimes notes that Chris Godwin was not quite himself when he first came back last season but got a little better during the year and is now a year further removed from injury. She sees potential for him to improve in 2025, though she acknowledges the receiver group is more duplicative with Ibuka in the slot/Z role.
Insight pageChris Olave
PositiveProjection32:00
Mina Kimes praises Chris Olave extensively, calling him her 'favorite type of receiver to watch' and highlighting the 'smoothness and separation that he creates' as 'so different.' She notes he had a healthy season and 'absolutely cooked,' and emphasizes his aesthetic appeal and the way he attacks the football. She also notes he had injury history but had a great 2024 season.
Insight pageNegativeInjury54:00
Superstar talent but injury history is a concern; concussion issues and size questions factor into ranking; if health could be guaranteed, would rank first among NFC South receivers; currently ranked third due to injury risk despite elite talent.
Insight pageDavid Njoku
NegativeDepth Chart55:59
Departed Falcons defense after being quite impactful in 2025; loss is a significant blow to Falcons' defensive continuity and pass rush effectiveness.
Insight pageDrake London
PositiveProjection50:03
Superstar wide receiver; one of the best young receivers in the NFL alongside Olave, Tedrow, and McMullen; ranked second among NFC South receivers for 2026 team-building purposes; has crazy level of talent and upside; fun player that makes Falcons offense interesting.
Insight pageJalen McMillan
PositiveProjection27:00
Mina Kimes highlights Jalen McMillan as potentially stepping into the Mike Evans role this season. She notes he was 'so good year one' and was hurt last year but could really step up in 2025, positioning him as an important X receiver to balance the receiver group alongside Godwin and Ibuka.
Insight pageJordyn Tyson
PositiveProjection30:00
Mina Kimes expresses enthusiasm about Jordan Tyson as a draft pick for the Saints, noting he pairs well with Chris Olave as a one-two punch. She emphasizes that if Tyson stays healthy for the entire season, the Saints could have a top 10 passing attack, but acknowledges he comes into the league with 'a ton of injury baggage.' She highlights his role working back to the backside as a rookie quarterback target.
Insight pageJulio Jones
NegativeRole3:48
Mina Kimes mentions Julio Jones as part of Tampa Bay's receiver group but does not provide specific fantasy analysis or projection.
Insight pageJuwan Johnson
PositiveRole32:00
Mina Kimes notes that Juwan Johnson is 'a good tight end' but 'not a great tight end,' suggesting he is a solid depth option for the Saints offense.
Insight pageKenneth Gainwell
PositiveRole22:30
Mina Kimes expresses enthusiasm about Kenny Gainwell as a pickup for Tampa Bay, calling him a 'mini times all-star' and noting his teammates named him 'MVP' and 'Best catch of the year.' She sees potential for the run game to improve with the offensive line getting healthier and Gainwell in the mix alongside Bucky Irving.
Insight pageKyle Pitts
PositiveRole55:10
Fun player to sprinkle into Falcons' offense; part of talented skill group alongside Bijan Robinson and Drake London that should make offense interesting.
Insight pageOscar Delp
NegativeRole32:00
Mina Kimes mentions that the Saints drafted Oscar Delp as part of a 'fun group' of tight end/receiver depth options.
Insight pageSean Tucker
PositiveRole27:00
Mina Kimes notes that Tampa Bay brought back Sean Tucker, who the Seahawks tried to sign to an offer sheet, as part of a good running back group alongside Bucky Irving and Kenny Gainwell.
Insight pageTrey Lance
NegativeRole32:00
Mina Kimes mentions that the Saints drafted Trey Lance, describing him as 'super fast, super big younger brother,' suggesting he is a depth receiver option.
Insight pageTua Tagovailoa
NegativeRole48:02
Better fit for Kevin Stefanski's offense than Penix; gets ball in hands of playmakers quickly with accurate, on-time throws; Stefanski prefers this type of quarterback; wants to prove he's not the player Deshaun Watson made him look like; likely to be the starter in Atlanta's quarterback competition.
Insight pageTyler Shough
PositiveProjection21:00
Mina Kimes provides extensive scouting notes on Tyler Shough, highlighting his growth as a rookie: he showed toughness by hanging in the pocket and taking hits, demonstrated willingness to throw over the middle of the field (a strength for him), and showed scrambling ability. She notes he took a lot of sacks but the time to sack was 9th fastest league-wide, suggesting offensive line issues rather than poor decision-making. She compares him favorably to Jackson Dart and Cam Ward in terms of being 'much better as a rookie,' though she notes concerns about his durability given the hits he takes.
Insight pageZachariah Branch
NegativeRole0:30
Zachariah Branch plays for the Atlanta Falcons in the NFC South; mentioned as a litmus test for draft attention given his divisional placement.
Insight pagePositiveRole49:28
Receiver with balanced game; fits Kevin Stefanski's quick-hitting, spread-out offensive scheme; gets ball quickly in space; part of Falcons' top-heavy receiving group outside Drake London.
Insight pageFull transcript
Episode Transcript
0:00This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome.
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0:26Welcome back to the The Mina Kimes Show featuring Lenny, only NFL podcast.
0:30One of the hosts here, Zachariah Branch and thinks I'd like to go fetch him.
0:35That's Lenny. I mean it times Zachariah. This is a great, I guess, litmus test for how close attention people pay to
0:42the draft because Zachariah Branch plays for the Atlanta Falcons who are in the NFC South, which is the division that we're previewing today.
0:49Uh, so excited to talk about this division. I really like, I know I say that always, but I'm legitimately excited to talk about this division.
0:57After watching some of these games. Also very excited to have my friend, host of NFL daily teammate.
1:03Now Greg Rosenthal. Welcome to the show. I love that you had me on for the messy, dirty NFC South.
1:09I've been trying to lift it up for years and it's, it's at its messies.
1:14I also love you have me on after Bill Simmons.
1:17So I got a little bit. Yeah. Bill, actually, it's so funny because in his power rankings pod, which people should go check out.
1:24Last one is next week with Scott Van Pelt.
1:27Uh, he, we were talking about the saints and he was like, they lay pretty good.
1:32And I think I made fun of him. I don't remember.
1:35I was like, really? They lay. Okay. And then while watching the saints, I was like, damn, Devon.
1:41He's tough. So Bill Simmons ball now. Um, I like this division because it made me go and rewatch games and, you know, full disclosure.
1:49I don't feel the need to rewatch Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson and various other quarterbacks, the veteran quarterbacks.
1:55Um, when I'm talking about other divisions, but in this one, I felt like I, especially with the quarterbacks in particular, but
2:01some of the players on Atlanta's defense, I went back and watched a lot of their divisional matchups, Greg, which was like, a ride.
2:09I don't know. It was really interesting. I changed my mind about some players.
2:13I became more convicted about some, like, what was your experience in reviewing this, this, this messy division?
2:19Yeah, there, they have great rivalries. It's one of the reasons I love this division is I think it has among the
2:26best rivalries because of the fan bases, because there's like a college vibe to it.
2:30And because they always like ugly it up against each other.
2:34They're the, the, the, the, we really reached peak NFC with that week 18 game, which the Bucks won and was ugly
2:40and was rain, but then it sets up them watching the same spot.
2:45I feel like this season might be a little bit of a letdown after that.
2:49Cause I don't think we can top that for peak.
2:52It was peak NFC South. Yeah. Backing backdooring their way, uh, through.
2:56Yeah. I, it's a lot of teams in flux, new coaches, quarterback competitions.
3:00In the case of buck, the box, some unexpected drama, contractual drama, um, which we'll get to, uh, well, you know what,
3:07maybe we should start with the bucks because that is the newsiest thing before we get started though.
3:12I did, I wanted to measure this at the top and I forgot.
3:17Um, you know, over the years I've done a couple, uh, like survey, I did a survey of fans and I've asked
3:23people to give feedback and I realized it's been a while since I've done that.
3:28Uh, so if you are a long time listener of the show or been listening for a while, I would love to hear from you.
3:36Leave it in the reviews. I will go back in a week or so.
3:40And they take like a couple of days to upload and read some of them.
3:45Um, but yeah, so I just wanted to make that little note.
3:48Okay. So please leave a review. What does Bomani Jones always say?
3:52Five stars. If you leave four, I'm inclined to think you're a hater.
3:56Uh, okay. Yeah. Let's start with the bucks. Okay.
3:59So the bucks and let's just start with the news, right?
4:02The bucks are sensibly the favorites to win the division.
4:06Um, some, you know, interesting additions and subtractions this off season.
4:09But the news is that there's two pieces of news.
4:12One is that they do not have a contract in place with Baker Mayfield, who is playing on any like very middle class quarterback.
4:20I guess maybe a little bit lower. I think he's about average.
4:23Uh, and feels that he earns more. Uh, and I don't know if you've heard this maker Mayfield is at his best
4:30when he's got a chip on his shoulder. Uh, and then the other thing that's, I think maybe I wouldn't say a
4:37bigger deal, but could be is Vita. Vea, their stalwart defensive tackle, uh, announced yesterday that he, or Adam Schefter reported, you know, that he wants out.
4:45And, uh, specifically it's happened because of the bucks in him have not been able to get a contract done.
4:52So this isn't a player who's like, I don't want to be here anymore.
4:56It sucks. Send me to a BC contender. It's a player who said, I want to make more money and you guys aren't paying it to me.
5:04So trade me. I think I saw a report that he would like to be in California.
5:10Get it. Dude. It wouldn't be. Um, so let's start there with the bucks defense, which I think I was very excited about.
5:17I put them in my top 10 defenses pod, Greg, you know, not that near the bottom, but you know, I thought the addition of Ruben Bain Jr.
5:25I love the Alex Anzalone signing to shore up that position, which has just been a problem for them in recent years.
5:32I felt there's young players in the secondary. You had the potential to get better, some bounce back years, some better health, but I'll be straight up.
5:41That all goes out the window without Vita Veya for me.
5:44Like he's so essential to what they do, which is they're a dominant run defense teams pass the ball over expected against them.
5:51And if not the highest close to the highest rate in the NFL, if you take him out, it's just a completely different defense.
5:59And trading him just doesn't make sense for a team that is among the teams that feel when now it's not an
6:05old roster in general, but it's like, what are we doing here with the post Tom Brady build?
6:11If this team is not winning this division, this division, every team feels like they could go in any direction.
6:17And it, they're tough decisions for Jason light, because on one hand, I actually think there is a chance that he does
6:24get traded because we've seen teams just give up more than I expect.
6:28For draft picks and compensation. And like, there's a way too much cap space out there.
6:33The Chargers have so much cap space. I immediately thought about the California team.
6:37The 49ers have $70 million in cap spaces. Like, could they do something?
6:41Or up on my list of teams that should make all right.
6:45So you could actually see someone making the offer and yet it makes no sense for the box.
6:51This, he is the most important piece, but if he's there, Klygia can't see next to him, Ruben Bain and Yaya Diaby on the outside.
6:58You actually have pretty good depth with Al-Kahid Bahamun from Detroit came over, you know, Yeah.
7:03You know, no chest run is no chest or whatever is there.
7:07Who's like, they just have players. A Sean Robinson is on this team.
7:11It's just players that you can trust, but he's a unique player in that you don't want to give him, especially after
7:18that Jalen Carter contract, like 27, $28 million a year guaranteed.
7:21Diving. Like age 32, 33 seasons. I get it.
7:24So if I'm Jason light, I'm thinking, can I give him a huge one year raise?
7:29Like, will he take, can I give him $10 million more for this year?
7:34But then it's just one of those, okay, this might be your last year with the bucks type of things.
7:40Yeah. Is he willing to do that at this age?
7:43I don't know. Um, I, yeah, the Carter contract is tough because I don't know how he's such a unique player.
7:49It's also hard to kind of rank him, you know, right?
7:53Like, cause it's so funny. Do you remember when they drafted him and I were at the time, there was a lot
8:00of consternation about them taking him instead of Derwin James Jr.
8:03And then both players turned out to be incredibly awesome.
8:06So it was kind of one of those like much debated draft picks that all turned out.
8:11The debate was kind of silly in some ways.
8:14Uh, I loved him obviously Washington, but I, I didn't think he would be this impactful in the league.
8:20Like when you go back again, going back and watching some of these bucks game, the, the amount of attention that he
8:27commands and the way he frees up other players can see is a great example, right?
8:32So can't see who's been interesting that they picked up his fifth year option, but he's obviously struggled with injury since coming.
8:39That was a first run draft pick from three years ago.
8:42Um, I don't know if can see works without Vita Veya, right?
8:46Like he, Veya is so big and commands so much attention and is so good against the run.
8:51And as I think, you know, his pass rush juice is also worth mentioning, but all of the other bucks defensive linemen
8:58thrive because of his presence on the field. And I, yeah, you just, I, Luis Rocha is a good player, but there's
9:05the only player who's like really comparable to Veya as like Dexter Lawrence in terms of a giant nose who, and, and beta is better against the run.
9:14Lawrence is a better pass rusher, but I just really hope if, if they want to compete this year and win the
9:21division, which they should, I just really feel like they gotta find a way to keep him.
9:26Yeah. I watched some of his tape because, and I asked some, some bucks people too, like, is there been a decline?
9:33And if there has, it feels like it's not massive.
9:36It's more just a position that it's tough to age well, eating up those double teams.
9:41But last year, second in most double teams faced in the league tied with your boy, Byron Murphy for the most pressures
9:48from like the, the a gap, basically the zero one or two technique with like 33 pressure.
9:53So he has some pass rush juice. So he's not a 1000 snap type of player, but you're right.
9:59It's tough to put a number on him. If, if you could get them on, like I said, on a raise or
10:06guarantee money, like one year out, but he probably wants one last big payday and he is aging and it is, it's a trick.
10:13It's a tricky one for this team who to me has like a ton of B plus good players.
10:19And he, he's above that. It would really hurt bucks fans.
10:22I think if you got rid of Vita Bay on the top of Mike Evans leaving.
10:27Yeah. It's funny when you look at the defensive line, you're right.
10:31It's a lot of good players. Like yeah. Yeah.
10:34He's a good player. He just isn't a top 15.
10:37All right. But you know, he's, he's not like a number one with a bullet, but suddenly it's like, okay, we have Ruben Bain jr.
10:45In the mix Muhammad for death. You feel a lot better about the room that you have right now, but there's no superstar.
10:52Uh, Vita's V is the closest thing I think to a star Bain juniors.
10:56We'll see what they get out of him. And also just, you know, I talked about how he protects can see.
11:03I really like he's Bain jr. I would feel much better about him and his production and his usage.
11:09If they is there. All right. That's enough. You know, let's live in the world where he is a buck.
11:15Um, because that is a world where I think you should be pretty optimistic about the front seven.
11:20You named a lot of those players up front, very excited about the Bain jr.
11:25Pick. I thought he was like a perfect fit for Todd Bowles defense, both, which is obviously very blitz heavy.
11:31And I think he is actually really good, um, player to have terms of you saw at Miami, the way he frees
11:38up other pass rushers, both from the second level and beyond, but also on the rest of the defensive line, he's very unselfish in that regard.
11:46Uh, but I also, I want to go back to the linebacker addition that they made.
11:51Um, you know, it was just, and it hurts my heart to say this, you know, I'm a Levante David super fan,
11:58but it's been necessary for a while. And it's not just David Dennis obviously wasn't very good either.
12:04Anzalone to me gives them such an upgrade. And it was such an area of vulnerability that offense is attacked all the time, right?
12:11Passes for running backs, screens, little short intermediate throws in.
12:14I feel like bringing in a very capable vet to me is going to be so helpful in that regard for everyone.
12:21I hope they're right. I hope you're right. Anzalone is the guy who has some different opinions about like how it ended
12:28in Detroit, but they evaluated and they like targeted him.
12:31They might start a rookie to Josiah Trotter next to him too.
12:35So that's a team there's, we've seen so many teams get blown up by like lack of linebacker.
12:40I still have that worry a little bit, but you're right.
12:44Anzalone should be an upgrade. And, and I, I think it's a big season for Jason.
12:49Like he has to be right there. And I think part of the issue with Veya, not to go back to him,
12:55but it's just, there's just a lot of free agents coming up all at the same time.
13:01It's Baker, it's Cody Mock, it's Yaya Diaby you were mentioning.
13:04It's just like, where is this build going? Cause last year was really disappointing for them to not make the playoffs.
13:11It was like sneaky, one of the most disappointing teams in the league.
13:15And so to me, they are very win now in a very winnable division.
13:19Yeah. It was a meltdown season and it's probably worth talking about that.
13:23We can get to the offensive side, which I spent a lot of time thinking about, but defensively the past defense just completely fell apart.
13:31I don't think it was any one thing. Um, you know, I mentioned some of the vulnerabilities at linebacker, the secondary also,
13:38it was a lot of young players who were really up and down is how I would characterize it and injuries, right?
13:45Like Ben Morrison came in with injury history. He was injured during the season.
13:49That was an issue. Zion McCollum took a step back from last year.
13:53Um, and you know, I, the lack of, I think of a consistent pass rush.
13:58I mean, this was a team that just didn't get pressure unless they blitzed.
14:02And the hope is that Ruben Bain Jr. changes that math a bit and alleviates things on the backend.
14:08It's still going to be a Todd Bulls defense.
14:11They're still going to play a lot of cover three.
14:14They're still going to blitz a lot, but you'd like to at least have the option not to, um, cause it would
14:21really help some of these young corners who I still like.
14:24It sounds like by the way, um, it's catching up on some of the bucks beat reporting.
14:29So McCollum plays outside. It sounds like Jacob Parrish is actually likely to play outside, which is interesting because he was, you
14:36know, he flashed, I think as an aggressive. He was good.
14:39Nickel. Yeah. And he's not that big, but he did play outside in college.
14:44And I think the hope is that Keontae Scott, who was a mid round draft pick for them from Miami that everybody
14:51loved could come in right away and start at nickel.
14:54Um, safeties, you're, you're great. Winfield Jr. and Tykee Smith.
14:57How do you feel about that? If that's how it shakes out McCollum Parrish on the outside, Keontae Scott, those safeties, do you feel good about that secondary?
15:06Yeah, it looks, I think it looks great on paper.
15:09I think this defense makes sense to be in your top 10.
15:12If anything, it's a little bit of a show me Todd Bowles.
15:16I was going through and he, they haven't had a top 10 defense in DVOA since 2020, since they won the title.
15:23They were, they were close the next couple of years.
15:26They were like 11, 13, but they've been average to even maybe sometimes a little below average the last few years, just in the middle.
15:34And I think there's enough talent here. I loved Keontae Scott.
15:37It's kind of wild to have a fourth round picks, you know, penciled in as a starter, but that gives you great cornerback depth.
15:45They need Winfield to be a bigger difference maker and healthier.
15:48He was like struggling through injuries and just wasn't the same last year.
15:52But when you line it all up, the idea of keeping Todd Bowles one more year makes sense to me because these are his types of players.
16:00I, I think it's got the depth, like the continuity to do all the cool stuff that he does and be one
16:07of the more fun defenses to watch. It is funny.
16:10The defensive players they drafted, everyone's like, yeah, like a Bain Jr., Trotter and Scott, but it was like, they, they all
16:17just, I feel like everybody just gave him A's across the board because they felt like such bucks.
16:23Um, Keontae Scott, I think people were really surprised that he fell to where he did in the draft.
16:29And he also was just like built in a lab to play in this defense, the blitzing ability, the tackling physical player.
16:36He had bring some versatility to his game. I'm like, I'm, I share your enthusiasm.
16:40I'm really excited about the group, but you mentioned that they haven't been top 10 in DVOA since 2020.
16:46Pretty sure they haven't had a double digit sack guy since 2020.
16:50Right. Uh, so it just feels like that's going to be the thing on which all of the swings can Ruben Bain Jr.
16:57Either be that guy or create opportunities for Diaby.
17:00Either way, he has to have an immediate impact for all of this to work in my mind.
17:05Yeah. They've swung and missed a few times on, on picks like Chris Braswell and the free agent pickups of like Reddick has, has come and gone.
17:14It, it needs to happen. And I think in this last off season where there was so much change, I know Bucks
17:21fans were, had mixed feelings about keeping Todd Bowles, but I think this was the reason to do it.
17:26It would, it would have been tricky and this is a defense built for him.
17:31So I do want to see it one more time.
17:34Offensively, this is probably a good place to talk about the Baker contract and why I do think it's tricky because I
17:41think you kind of had the Mayfield experience last year, right?
17:44Like you can get really high level quarterback play.
17:47You can get, I mean, the first six to seven weeks, people are talking about him as an MVP candidate.
17:53There's games where he will throw for Fortnite, he'll go nuclear, but then there's also bad decision-making at times.
17:59And I think what you saw down the stretch in addition to, and I cannot under emphasize this or overemphasize enough injuries
18:06on the offensive line, which like we're all trying to figure out what happened to the Bucks offense.
18:12I think it just, that really caught up with them in addition to all the other injuries.
18:17But I think my feeling with him is if you put too much on his shoulders, eventually the cracks start to show.
18:24And that's true of a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL.
18:27So I want to be clear, right? Like, I'm not like, Oh, but only Baker Maple is unique in that he can't carry an entire offense.
18:35No, like that's what makes the contractual stuff so tricky because there's only, 10 guys I don't feel that way about.
18:42But I do think you really saw that Greg as the season went on and on.
18:47And I do for Jason light in Tampa, you wonder, okay, well, even knowing that if we pay him start the $50
18:54million or what goes to going right for starting quarterbacks, do we think we can win with like, it's the age old question.
19:01Like, can you pay a starting quarterback, starting quarterback money if he's not a top 10 guy and win?
19:07Right. And I think so if the build is like nearly perfect around him.
19:11Yeah. Yeah. The Seahawks, but like that, that's almost impossible to find.
19:15And frankly, the Bucks kind of had it a couple of years ago, uh, maybe even going into last year, I thought so.
19:22And I, I, I did think there was a route a couple of years ago where they could have gotten hot and gone further in the playoffs.
19:30It didn't happen for them. Did you watch a quarterback at all on Netflix?
19:35Uh, no, you told me cam ward is the star.
19:38Oh my God. Kim, Kim ward. Like that is the reason to do reality TV.
19:42Cause I, I, yeah, you cannot watch that and not come away like a huge cam ward fan, but I Baker also
19:49like who we've lived with now for a while, like seeing like the older version of Baker was, it was a more interesting season.
19:57I didn't even finish the first couple of seasons cause I found them boring, but this time there were more good characters,
20:04including Baker, but there was, there was part of them that you hear like the chip on his shoulder stuff and all,
20:10but then you see how he operates and you're like, man, it does seem kind of true that like, like he, he
20:17really does get fuel or like live his life in this way that like, he almost needs this external motivation, which does not create a consistent player.
20:26And then you also couldn't help, but see just who he is.
20:29And when he's getting all the treatment, he's just not a big quarterback.
20:33And like, how is he going to age? He's 31 and the style that he plays, he's not like a big quarterback.
20:40He plays an aggressive brand. Like he's not overwhelmingly like physically talented.
20:44I mean, obviously has a great arm and everything.
20:47So that worries you. And the thought of him on a contract year where he thinks the bucks don't believe in him
20:54to pay the money that he believes he's worth sounds great for us, but it sounds like a little chaotic, like either it'll go great or horrible.
21:02You know, it's just, it just feels like a rollercoaster ride, which is what he kind of is in general.
21:08He always plays through injuries that we find out about after the fact, he is always going to rank like top 10
21:15or the top and quarterback scrambles and seems to almost seek out contact at times.
21:20So it is a little bit concerning from a long-term perspective.
21:23I get it. Um, I think in the short term, there's reasons to think this offense can look a lot better than it did last year.
21:31Um, starting with health, you know, I talked about the offensive line.
21:35I mean, I, I think, I don't know if people appreciated how injured this offensive line was last season.
21:41I was looking at some of the different combinations over the various games.
21:45I mean, no one really excited like Graham Barton, like play, like I Luke Gadecki, who is like one of the great
21:52reclamation stories in the NFL of switching positions and the rare one who switched tackle became better.
21:57Um, you know, missed a good chunk of the season.
22:00So important to their run game, Cody Mouch, like these guys were, it was a rotating cast on the offensive line.
22:07And again, to go back to what went wrong, they're 29th in adjusted games lost on offense, according to, uh, meaning the close to the worst FTN fantasy.
22:15When you go back to like, what was different?
22:18I think that's, that's where you got to start here, right?
22:21With Tampa. Like what was different from, cause this offense was much better in 2024 over the course of the entire season versus 2025.
22:29I think it starts with that offensive line because when they're healthy, this is one of the best offensive lines in football, but they just weren't healthy.
22:37And then the run game, I mean, it completely imploded, went from eighth and DVOA to 26.
22:43And Irving was also hurt as well. But I really think a lot of that had to do with the offensive line.
22:49Um, Irving is hurt now, which isn't great, but they brought in mini times all-star Kenny Gainwell.
22:55I need a piece of him in fantasy. I feel like that's a great pickup.
22:59Uh, there's MVP Kenny Gainwell as named by his teammates.
23:02Best catch of the year. Come on. Uh, so I do think that there's the potential for the, the run game to
23:09get better just purely with that offensive line getting healthier.
23:12But I also think, Greg, there's things that their new offensive coordinator, Zach Robinson can do to get the 2024 version of Baker.
23:19And look, Liam Cohen, we've now seen now in multiple spots is that guy.
23:24So that's, it was a tough loss. And I think we saw him have success in Jacksonville and call such a great offense.
23:31You, you see that that's, it was a big loss.
23:34Yeah. There's a world where they chose Liam Cohen over Todd Bowles and that would be a better world for Baker Mayfield.
23:41A couple of things just off top with Baker and Zach Robinson.
23:45One, you got to bring down the average of the target.
23:48Baker was 31st in area yards per attempt in 2024.
23:51Uh, and then jumped to, he, it was 6.7 last year.
23:55It was almost eight area yards per attempt. Good things can happen when Baker pushes the ball down field.
24:00Bad things can also happen. I do feel that that reined in version helped.
24:05Uh, and some of that had to do with Cohen called a great screen game and whatnot, but that's part of it.
24:12But yeah. And then the other thing is the play action piece.
24:15The Bucks offense last year when they used play action were eighth in EPA per play 0.29 when they didn't, they were 25th negative 0.03.
24:23Whoa. And you know, I think sometimes we can be a little bit of broken record with play action, like hammer the play action.
24:31I don't think that's true across the board. I do think it's true with Baker Mayfield.
24:36I have watched him play quarterback long enough in this league to feel confident.
24:40I can say this is a better quarterback when he uses play action.
24:44And by the way, I think a Buka, we can talk about him in a second.
24:49And what happened in the second half of the season is a great receiver in terms of, um, you know, some of
24:56the zone voids and the way he attacks them and that kind of thing.
25:00So I just feel like for Robinson, there's an opportunity here to kind of write the ship and course correct a little
25:07bit and make the offense look a little bit more like it did last season.
25:12Yeah. I am really curious. Zach Robinson was not a good first time OC in Atlanta.
25:16Like he was, it was tough to watch sometimes.
25:19I mean, they had Bajon Robinson and Drake London and pits and everything, but their running game and their passing game, like didn't match up.
25:27I don't know if that's going to be the same quarterback.
25:30This is your chance back show the world. You're you had quarterbacks who wouldn't go into center or whatever.
25:36Like this is your chance. Fair. And, and you do wonder like, is, are they going to do more spread?
25:43Like he was a lot of spread, but with two tight ends and stuff.
25:47And I agree with you of like the direction that they could go and that they should go because they, they have a good receiver group.
25:55I mean, it would have looked better. They, they thought Mike Evans was coming back.
26:00Mike Evans did something nobody does, which is take less money to leave like a good situation.
26:05And I think that hurt. And yet if Chris Godwin gets better, he was not quite Chris Godwin.
26:11Definitely not when he first came back last year, but I think got a little better during the year.
26:16He's a year further removed from injury. And then you have a Buka, you have McMillan.
26:21I kind of like Ted Hurst as like a flyer off the bench, like Ted, even Ted Johnson, who is a great,
26:28like fourth or fifth receiver, just a small receiver for them.
26:32So to me, they have enough weapons. They signed Kate in, in, in the off season, but you hit it with the running game.
26:39To me, it is all about just can like Robinson and Baker take advantage of what on paper should be a really
26:46good offensive line, a top five or six offensive line, get that running game going.
26:51Cause they brought back Sean Tucker too, who your, your Seahawks tried to sign to an offer sheet.
26:56So that's a good group. I think Bucky Irving, him and Gainwell, like again, it's another team.
27:01It's another position group, literally the whole offense, the whole team just seems like a whole lot of B pluses, which in
27:08this division, like could, could do very well. Do you think of a good guy as a B plus or?
27:14Yeah. Right now. Yeah. Right now. Yeah. He was such a weird season, right?
27:19Because similar to Baker first half of the year, looked like the best offensive player in the draft.
27:24Do you think he could be more, he could be an A minus A like?
27:29Um, I think he, so I talked about him when I did the, did we do the NFC X factors together?
27:36I forget. Or did we do AFC? Not this year.
27:39Okay. So he was my X factor and I went back and I revisited his tape and it was a mixed bag
27:45for me because I did realize that in the first half of the season, he feasted on some easy matchups.
27:52I really, that's true. And I think in the second half of the year, you saw some limitations versus man coverage, but
27:59I think there's also potential for him to be better than what you saw the second half of last season and year two.
28:06It's an interesting fit with Godwin because they're more duplicative than like Evans, like it felt like was drafted to replace Godwin, but then Evans left.
28:14So now they have Godwin and Ibuka who are like kind of similar in some ways.
28:19I think Ibuka's obviously got more juice. Um, and that's why I think McMillan and maybe Hearst are important in terms of
28:26like those players are more of like X receivers than God.
28:29Ibuka is like a Z slash slot. Right. So you kind of need one of those players.
28:34And, and I, I, you mentioned Hearst, you like McMillan dude was so good year one and he was hurt too last year.
28:41Everybody was freaking hurt and they came back. I think you could really see him actually step into the Mike Evans role this season.
28:49It's a well-built team. I think Jason Lightwood would have wanted to like hit more on like all pro types.
28:55You got Tristan Wirfs of course, but going through it all and like thinking about Zach Robinson on chance to Todd Bowles is absolutely on the hot seat.
29:04They are the favorites in this division too. You got the Baker, like contract.
29:08It's just, it's so much. There's so much variance to me of like boom bust for this entire division, especially them.
29:15All right. Let's do the saints next. A lot of good vibes right now in saints land.
29:20Start with Tyler shock. That was the first player I went back and rewatched last few games of the season.
29:26Um, you know, I'll just give you my general notes and you can tell me kind of where you're at on him.
29:33Uh, I said this to you. He, the thing that I love the most was that he did things in the NFL.
29:40He didn't do in college or he, he showed growth and potential in areas that I thought were weaknesses for him.
29:46Uh, one toughness and not to say he wasn't tough.
29:49The dude was like went through a million injuries, but I felt like at college, I talked about this.
29:55I remember ahead of the draft, sometimes he's throwing it away.
29:59You're wondering if he wants to get hit. He took some hits this year and this dude hung in the pocket.
30:05There was this beautiful throw against Atlanta, the touchdown where Jalen Walker, who we'll talk about, uh, comes just barreling down on
30:12him and he just lets it fly as he's getting sandwiched.
30:15And I love to see that. He also took a lot of sacks.
30:19Um, I think tied to that, which is a negative.
30:23However, I will note that, um, the time to sack was actually the ninth fastest league wide.
30:28So it wasn't like he was just running around back there doing rookie stuff.
30:32Some of it was just offensive line issues, which we'll get to.
30:36I loved, Oh, the other thing I think that we saw that was different.
30:40The, um, the, some of the scrambling, the bucks game, the 34 yard zone, me the scramble touchdown or, you know, and
30:47that was something I did mention in college. I was like, yeah, he's got, he's got some athleticism, but I think you really saw enough.
30:55I wouldn't, he's not going to be a dual threat quarterback, but it's definitely sufficient.
31:00Willingness to throw over the middle of the field is the thing that really jumped out to me because that's something you often don't see with rookie quarterbacks.
31:08Um, but I thought he was not just willing, but like it was where he thrived, which is part of what makes
31:15Tyson such a fun pick for them. As far as things he needs to get better at, um, you know, there's good throws.
31:22There are not like many like wow throws on tape.
31:25Oh, Nina, how dare you? And then, um, well, I would actually, I thought his receivers were the ones that actually really surprised me a lot.
31:33Like they were making some tough catches for him.
31:36And then I think he was just a tick late here and there.
31:40But again, that's a rookie thing. There were moments where I was like, throw the ball, throw the ball, throw the ball.
31:47But, um, by and large liked what I saw.
31:50I can see why Saints fans are really excited.
31:53And I think, and this is what we'll get to in a second.
31:57The Saints did a phenomenal job of building around him this off season too.
32:01Yeah. So what are you, what's your Tyler's Chuck scouting report?
32:04That was mine. He was one of my favorite players to rewatch this off season.
32:09I came away thinking, I don't know about long-term, but I came away thinking like, oh, he, he was much better as
32:16a rookie than Jackson Dart and Cam Ward. It's situations were problematic, obviously in all cases for different reasons, but maybe the lack of wow throws is true.
32:25Like the arm strength isn't crazy, but man, it's just, I just watched it and was like, he is an NFL player.
32:31I don't know if he's going to be able to hold up playing this way and taking these hits.
32:37Cause he's back there. Like Ryan Tannehill or. Okay.
32:40So it's so funny that you mentioned that because I was texting so lack and I was like, I'm watching, uh, Tyler Shuck.
32:47Have you rewatched him? And literally was typing Ryan Tannehill and we both hit at the same time, Ryan Tannehill.
32:53And I was like, okay, can we not do the tall, tough white guy?
32:58Good straight line runner. Okay. I was getting to Cam is the other one.
33:02The problem is those guys were absolutely massive. I have never seen a healthier quarterback than Tannehill and Newton for the most
33:09part, Cam Newton take a week to week pounding like those two dudes did and just stand and just take it.
33:15And sometimes seem almost oblivious. I don't scramble as you mentioned, but you hit everything I would have wanted to hit.
33:22I was excited. And the creation plus getting through reads quickly were the things I was most surprised by.
33:28And I think that's coaching too. I, I think Kellen Moore did a pretty good job with Spencer Rattler doing that too.
33:35Like he was getting one to two to three.
33:38He just, he just has to take less, less sacks.
33:41Like he's just hoping to get to that fourth read.
33:44I think only Brady Cook and Gino Smith had a, had a higher pressure to sack rate.
33:49So he's got to get rid of the ball.
33:52Cause there's a lot of negative plays there, but so many times he's hitting the second or even third read like pretty quickly.
33:59And that's, it's impressive for a rookie quarterback. Tons of turnover.
34:02I talked about the bucks turnover on the saints offensive line.
34:06I mean, by the end it was, there were some real dicey lineups.
34:10They're rolling out there. Um, I mentioned in the X factors pod that I re that I was really impressed by Calvin Banks, Jr.
34:17Their left tackle. Uh, and I think, but I do think you need Flwonga on the right side to take another step.
34:24They, their big signing this off season was David Edwards.
34:27Fricking love that. Absolutely love that to bolster the interior.
34:30Um, because the run game was, I mean, you know, you and I talked about what we liked, what we saw from Tyler Chuck.
34:38I think it's pretty damn impressive. He did it with zero run game also, right?
34:42Like the saints run game last year, 30th and DVO a 31st in EPA per play.
34:47Uh, they averaged 0.7 yards over contact for carry, which is tied with Las Vegas.
34:52Uh, their expected yards per carry per NGS was 3.2.
34:55Do you know how bad blocking has to be for expected 3.2 yards per carry?
35:00Uh, so they, the offensive line health in addition to Edwards signed a Travis H.
35:04And so hopefully that helps, but I just want to say Tyler Chuck deserves a ton of credit for keeping that offense
35:11running without having, he has good receivers. We'll get to, but the run game was not existing last season.
35:17Yeah. And it was third and long. And a lot of those receivers weren't out there.
35:22It was a lot of like Kevin Austin as the, as your wide receiver to some week.
35:27So that, that was impressive. This kind of brings up my overarching theory about the same offense specifically, which as boomer bus,
35:34as I'm talking about the bucks, I feel like this is the boomer bus offense, like in the league, maybe in, in
35:41the offensive line is the biggest reason. I think there is a path to them.
35:46Cause I like the coaching. I like shock. I like the offensive line.
35:50If the offensive line hits as a top five group, which, you know, if Eric McCoy is healthy, he's never healthy.
35:56If Fawaga takes a step and is healthy, he hasn't really been healthy.
36:00Calvin Banks, I think is locked in as like a difference maker.
36:04David Edwards was a great signing. Cesar Ruiz was one of the worst starters in the NFL last year.
36:10And they just keep bringing him back. And like, he's had seasons where he's okay.
36:15Like there, there's a path that that's a top five group.
36:18And with some help, like this is, this could be like a top 10 offense, but there's so many routes at every position.
36:25Like everyone is injury prone. Yeah. So if you tell me Jordan Tyson, who's a draft pick is healthy for the entire
36:32season, I really could see this being a top 10 off passing attack, but obviously he comes into the league with a ton of injury baggage.
36:40Hypothetically in this, again, watching Tyler Shuck and I talked about the willingness to attack the middle of the field.
36:46Like he's as a rookie quarterback, he'll work back to the backside dick, right?
36:51You know what I mean? And you think about Jordan Tyson in that role along with Chris Olave, by the way, two
36:57receivers that just pair so well together in terms of their skill sets.
37:01That's a phenomenal one, two punch. Hypothetically, just can we just take a moment talk about how good Chris Olave is?
37:08That's another thing watching him. I, he is like aesthetically just my favorite type of receiver to watch.
37:14I was talking, I was thinking of it with Nate.
37:17Um, cause we were talking about the number ones in this, the NSE South and they're all, they all four teams have
37:24really good number ones, but the smoothness and separation that he creates is so different.
37:28And then he, the way he attacks the football, I just love his game.
37:33And the fact that they got a healthy season and he absolutely cooked, uh, incredible, but entry history too.
37:38So it's like, you're right. It is, it is like a scary proposition to go all in here because it could be so great.
37:46Yes. As someone who kept my stock, I think I had him wide receiver one and two with Jamison Williams that year.
37:53Like it was great to see him kind of become his true self.
37:57Like you're right. Like the Christmas with which he runs those routes.
38:00It's just like, it's just like a cold glass of like water on a hot day.
38:05Like there's something about watching Chris Olave that you're right is very aesthetically pleasing.
38:10Although a year ago at this time, like we're worrying about his career because I know.
38:15Yes. And that sort of speaks to what I'm talking about with the boomer bust of it all like him and Tyson and McCoy.
38:22Eric McCoy is like an idea at this point at center.
38:26Like you can't, you can't count on him to play a season.
38:29He just never, he never does. And yet he's like a captain in the center.
38:34It's a trick. It's a tricky spot to be.
38:37And yet because of that. And if you wanted to talk a little bit about Kellen Moore, like, I think he really had growth his rookie year.
38:45And I kind of liked what he did. I think he put his players and his quarterbacks in good positions.
38:51And so that's why I like the upside, the ceiling is there for this team.
38:56I think the floor is there too. I think it could be an awful team.
39:01Like it really could be totally like very like 10 wins or it could be very low.
39:06The depth is also was fun. You mentioned Velae who's like a contested catch God.
39:11It's some of the craziest watching. Uh, they drafted Bryce Lance.
39:14Trey Lance is super fast, super big younger brother.
39:17Juwan Johnson. I, there's another, I kept noting. I was like, he's freaking good dude.
39:21Juwan Johnson is a good tight end. He's not a great tight end.
39:26Uh, they drafted Oscar Delp. So fun group I'm optimistic, but injuries are to me, the concern and the question defense, uh,
39:32quietly 13th in DBA last year, 11th in EPA replay six and success rate Brandon Staley, man.
39:38Um, the investment in the offense did come at the expense of investment in the defense.
39:43I noticed that right? Like his, uh, you did bring back Kate and Ellis.
39:47He's a meeting times all star, but there's some speculative ads, Tyree Wilson.
39:51They did direct Kristen Miller. He's a nose signed Martin Emerson, but there was clearly the priority was to focus on the
39:58offense, which I get young quarterback makes sense. So I think for Staley, the challenge is like, can you continue to kind
40:05of coach this group maybe above their talent level?
40:07Uh, which is, I think what he did last season.
40:11Yeah. The numbers are exactly what you would expect from a Brandon Staley defense.
40:15Like I think among, if not the most cover three in the league.
40:19So they're, they're holding down that middle of the field.
40:22It's just a ton of zone trying to prevent the big play.
40:26They found a player who they're going to use at nickel this year and Jonas Sanker, who was a safety player.
40:32And it's really important in that defense. Like, but it's a little scary that how high up like him, Caden Ellis and
40:39Cam Jordan, uh, who did resign in the end are to like, how good are you going to get double digits again from Cam Jordan?
40:47Yeah. Caden Ellis was awesome in Atlanta last year, but he's 33 or 34.
40:51It's, it's very Mickey Loomis that he decided to get younger at linebacker.
40:55And he went from like 37 year old tomorrow, to Mario Davis, a 32 or 33 year old Caden Ellis.
41:01Like that's very saints. Uh, linebacker is very important because one of the things Staley did and Cody Alexander, who has an
41:08excellent newsletter, people should check out sub stack that, um, got, there was an excellent piece he did on the saints defense
41:15and kind of the, how Brandon Staley solved some of their problems despite limitations with talent was he played a ton of
41:22base defense, um, meaning three linebackers on the field, which made them very stout against the run mentioned earlier.
41:28Uh, every time they faced multiple tight end sets, they would trot out that base defense, but then, and this is what the piece gets into.
41:36They would play like quarters behind it to cap the play action.
41:40Uh, and it really worked. They were like really good against play action.
41:44They were really good against the run. There's some vulnerabilities created by that structure, but linebacker is important to pull that off.
41:51So gay Nellis signing needs to work. Uh, I'd like to take a moment to talk about another observation I had while
41:57rewatching the saints, this particular defense, chase young, like nobody's talking about the fact that he's awesome again.
42:03Um, I think awesome, like in a way that maybe he's never been before, or at least not since Ohio state chase
42:10young, uh, finish the season eighth and pass rush when seventh and pressure rate did have quite a high sack to hit
42:17rate, which is not, you know, always great, but the tape echoes that the thing I kept writing down over and over is he's so strong.
42:25I guess he's always been, I mean, it has always been a part of it.
42:29He's a big dude, but like the bull rushes, he was putting on left tackles tremendous.
42:34Uh, and when you consider his pedigree and what he looked like, you know, as a rookie, it's not that surprising, but
42:41it kind of feels like because he's taken such a weird NFL journey or it's been injuries and whatnot.
42:47And also it was the saints. Maybe it got a little slept on that.
42:51He's rebounded in such a big way. The yeah, the purse snap numbers in terms of all the stats you mentioned, like
42:58he was like a top five edge rusher in the league, just in terms of just some, some of the crazier analytics.
43:05I wouldn't put them there, but when we did, we did a draft on NFL daily.
43:10I did it with Ollie Connelly and I like chase young ended up going off the board in the top 25 or
43:17so, because at a certain point, like you got, like you got past players that were true, like every down difference makers.
43:24And if once you got to the players that like, to me, he is much better, you know, rushing the passer and everything.
43:31He is very strong. Um, but he's much better rushing the passer and they rotated him, which was smart.
43:37Like he's one of the best at, at that right now.
43:40And it's great to see kind of like Olave, a guy like realizing my, my issue though, is like, I love him,
43:47but this group does not have enough juice maybe next to him.
43:51Like he is not an entire group. Yeah. Interesting to see if they can get anything from Tyree Wilson, who spiritually was
43:57always a saint from a size perspective profile. Uh, another former first round draft pick Granderson's good, right?
44:03Uh, but not, I think the defensive tackles are just okay.
44:06Um, it's a lot of young guys, man. Like McKinstory, can he take another step?
44:11He has ball production, but coverage lapses Quincy Riley, uh, look decent for them.
44:15Uh, just to read still really good, really solid at safety, but, uh, yeah, there's just back.
44:21They re-signed Julian Blackman. So I think to put a bit pin on it, 13th again, feels maybe a little bit there.
44:28They definitely benefit from the division, but I do think this can at least be an average defense again.
44:33I really do. And by the way, there's not that big of a gap between 13th and 16th.
44:39So I hope so. There, there is a route where they get way worse.
44:43I couldn't believe like the DVOA projections has them as like the 31st defense in the league.
44:49He has one of the worst teams in general in the NFL, which was a little like, Ooh, what are they seeing?
44:56What am I missing? Well, maybe, maybe it's the overall just lack of talent and especially lack, lack of pass rushes is hard to overcome.
45:03If, if like Brian Bracey is your second best pass rusher, but he's pretty inconsistent, but yeah, that's, that was surprising to me.
45:10Maybe they weren't counting on the Brandon Staley sounds to be a consistent winner.
45:15All right. Well, part of the reason I'm high on them is I have some questions about the vision.
45:21So let's take a quick break, come back and talk about the Falcons and Panthers.
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47:39All right, we're back. Atlanta. Another defense that was interesting.
47:43Go back and rewatch, but let's start with the offense quarterback competition, but it hasn't actually begun because one of the quarterbacks is not playing football.
47:51Seems like to a tug while it was going to start, right?
47:54And we can do, we can do the two's better.
47:57Okay. Well, let me rephrase that. We're probably going to see both of these guys.
48:02So I, you know, I do a honest face, much better fit for the Kevin Stefanski offense.
48:07Get the ball in the hands of your playmakers who are awesome.
48:11Try to keep things running on time, quick, accurate.
48:14Penix still has played like 12 games. Like, you know, it's just, it's just tough at this point to project.
48:20It's sad to like, think about where were you thinking about him at this point a year ago?
48:26It's why it's I'm not giving up, but he, he doesn't make a lot of sense with Kevin Stefanski to your point.
48:33And we'll see like two, two is not exactly a guy that you would count on to, to stay healthy the whole season either way.
48:40Yeah. So he was, we do, it was such a turnover machine last year.
48:45I think that's the other thing that could factor into this.
48:48Um, you know, if he really has one of those like multi turnover games and Penix is healthy again, that could also
48:55be a precipitating change for a quarterback switch, not just the potential for injury.
48:59I think it's a, what's Atlanta. It's obviously a bummer because there's like, they have superstars, but John Robinson might be the best running back in the NFL.
49:08Drake London is, I think a superstar. I feel comfortable saying that although very thin group outside him.
49:14I think that kind of slept on that. I mentioned Zachariah Branch.
49:17He if you consider him as basically a receiver, although, you know, he, I think his game has become a little bit
49:24more balanced, but yeah, it's, it's not, it's a very top heavy group in Atlanta.
49:29It is. And you can just imagine. And to, uh, who, uh, who, you know, could be effective in this sort of offense.
49:36Kevin Stefanski has schemed up some pretty effective offenses with Jacoby Brissett and with, you know, with early career Baker and, and
49:43the combination of like, if, if they're spreading it out and even the draft pick, you mentioned Zachariah Branch, like he seems
49:50like a guy you want to get the ball too quickly too, is going to get rid of the ball quickly.
49:56Like I'm trying to figure out what this new group is in general, the Falcons are kind of like my, my biggest,
50:03like why, what team in the NFL? Like you bring in Matt Ryan to run football operations in a more meaningful way
50:10than I think I expected, like making football decisions to the point where their, their new GM, Ian Cunningham does not have like final say over the matter.
50:18And just in general, a lot of the team build feels like a lot of why, like I'm, I, I have to see this.
50:26I kind of wanted Kevin Stefanski to take a year off.
50:29He felt like he was really tired. It's like, he just needed to like refresh some ideas.
50:35You know what I mean? Go in the lab for a year or something.
50:39One question I have about the Falcons is whether or not we're just penciling the offensive line being decent because they've been
50:46decent and maybe overlooking all the attrition that they've experienced there.
50:49Um, you know, it's been a, like, I don't know what year I would put as the peak per se, but players have retired.
50:57Players have left Jake Matthews skin up in the years.
51:00Chris Lindstrom is still great, but outside of them, you know, I mean, I guess Bergeron is a bit like, it's just,
51:07I don't look at this as a dominant run blocking unit.
51:10And if the premise of this offense is like, well, dominant outside zone run game with Bijan, I do wonder if maybe
51:17we're taking that for granted a little bit. Totally.
51:20I don't even know if they were a good run blocking group last year.
51:24I think it was just so sick. He just makes them look good.
51:28On the other hand, like how much does Bill Callahan have left?
51:32So that is their offensive line coach. That is one of the most interesting, like, yeah, assisting coach moves.
51:38He didn't have his Browns group, like humming in a Callahan type way the last season, season and a half really in Cleveland.
51:45But if he's like the old Callahan and, and you can, you, if you told me three years ago, you're, you're getting Bill Callahan offense with Bijan Robinson.
51:53Like that sounds incredible to me. So I, I do want to see how that looks, but you're right on paper.
52:00It's not the most talented offensive line anymore. Do you think if you're a Falcons fan, you want to see Penix junior during the season?
52:08Yes. Yeah. Cause here's the thing, like the Falcons are hard to talk about because it's kind of unclear what their goals are.
52:15And it feels a little bit like they're treading water with how they've approached the quarterback position.
52:20And we know where this is going with Tua.
52:23I don't, I'm not optimistic about Penix at this point, but at least let's see it again.
52:28You know, right. I talked about how Zach Robinson has the opportunity to prove in Tampa that he was hamstrung by his quarterbacks.
52:35Penix has the opportunity to prove that he was hamstrung by Zach Robinson.
52:39It's like a couple that breaks up and you're like, all right, show me if you can date someone better.
52:46Let's see who's the real catch here. I, cause you know, I think Penix's camp, I've always heard like, well, you know,
52:52it's not that he won't play under center. It's the elephants and dah, dah, dah.
52:57Okay. See ya. You know, the problem is you might have a head coach in Stefanski who prefers Tua.
53:03That's like his type of guy. It's the guy that they decided to bring in.
53:08And he wants to show that he's not the guy that Deshaun Watson made him look like to be.
53:13And like, that's the type of offense he wants to run.
53:17It's, it's why it's the whole thing is a little confusing to me.
53:21The word was that Arthur blank, the owner had been sold a bill of goods that like, we are going to compete
53:28and be like a real contender last year. And he was just so disappointed.
53:32It just like, I'm not bringing these guys back.
53:35And yet like this wasn't a rebuild type of off season.
53:38They just like picked around the margins, a lot of backups and they still have the same guy running defense, which, which we'll talk about.
53:46And so I'm not, I'm not sure like you're saying like what they're going for.
53:51It just feels like a lot of why, and they're not going to be bad enough.
53:56I don't think to, to be near the top of the quarterback market.
54:00All right. Well, let me say something nice. Drake London's sick.
54:03I was thinking that watch some of these kids.
54:06So good. All the wide receiver ones, Olave Drake London.
54:09Um, I guess I think Buka is the wide receiver one.
54:12And then Tedrow and McMullen, uh, they're all young and they're all awesome.
54:16I actually don't even, I was, I was talking to Nate about this.
54:21I don't even know how I'd rank them. Olave makes it tricky because of his injury.
54:25Like if you could guarantee me Chris Olave's health, I would actually probably put him one, but that might just be my aesthetic preferences.
54:33McMillian London are more similar. That's a tough. All right.
54:36I'm gonna put you on the spot. One, two, three, four, four receivers.
54:40I mentioned, how would you rank them? Is it for 2026 or is it long-term?
54:45If you were building, yeah. Uh, no, take out context.
54:48You're building a team. Okay. I would actually go T-Mac, I think one and London two and Olave just because of this,
54:55as much as I love Olave because of the size and the concussion stuff, uh, he would be a close third, but they're, they're all close.
55:03If Olave was healthy, it's different, but I think it's totally fair to account for the injury history.
55:08T-Mac over Drake. Well, you're saying like build the team.
55:11And so I, I like the mystery box as great as Drake London is.
55:16And he's, he's awesome. Like T-Mac is maybe already, you know, in the, in the ballpark.
55:21It's crazy that he was so good. You will want.
55:24Yeah. So that I'm, I'm like, is there another level?
55:27But Drake London's level is crazy, which is why, like, how can this team be boring?
55:32Don't be boring. How could you be boring with Bajon Robinson and Drake London and Kyle Pitts, who's fun to sprinkle in there?
55:39I understand if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably sick of me hearing me say this, but why couldn't you have signed Malik Willis?
55:47It would have been fun. Yeah. Just scary. I, it might be bad, but at least I would be like, I want to see some, something fun.
55:55I understand why they didn't. I'm just being annoying.
55:58Uh, let's talk about the defense. Cause this was similar to the saints.
56:02The NFC South quietly has four decent defenses, right?
56:05Like there's no bad defense in this bunch. Um, they were good last year.
56:09They mostly beat the, they beat the Rams, the bucks and the bills last year.
56:14The Falcons are very confusing team. And it was mostly because of their defense.
56:18It was, yes, they, I mentioned this. They made like all the great quarterbacks look worse and, uh, they were faith in
56:25variance FDN tracks that which checks out, but they ultimately did finish 12th in DVO way very good against the past.
56:32Finally got a pass rush six in pass rush win.
56:35However, some questions, some losses. Um, David on Yamada was quite impactful for them.
56:39He's gone. Caden Ellis was very good last year.
56:42He's gone. James Pierce, who was their first round draft pick pass rusher.
56:46They traded up for, um, is his status for the 2026 season is up in question because of a, uh, very alarming incident he had last year.
56:54I just want to make sure I get the facts right here.
56:58I was pulling it up. He was arrested, um, for aggravated battery, basically following his ex-girlfriend in a car, trying to keep her from going to the police.
57:07Uh, he's in a pretrial diversion program, but, um, the NFL should, and we'll see, but act.
57:12I don't know when that's always the question. Um, so, and he was there, they're leading, you know, in terms of sacks last season.
57:19Uh, it was a great draft, right? Like Xavier Watts was awesome.
57:23We'll get to the back end, but upfront that front seven, a lot of questions.
57:28I think a lot of pressure on Jalen Walker, who was their top draft pick to step up.
57:33So I wanted to ask you what you thought of him, because I do think if like for this defense to keep
57:40building on what they did last season, he has to take another step this year.
57:45I watched them a little for the edge rusher draft.
57:48I mentioned, I think he was just on the outside, but man, he was fun to watch and I thought got better
57:55during the year and has real strength in versatility.
57:58And I think I heard you guys talk about like Abdul Carter's star rising.
58:02I wouldn't put Jalen Walker on that level. He's a very different sort of player, but I, I do feel like confident,
58:09not as confident in Carter, but confident that he is going to be a good NFL player.
58:14And I was really surprised to hear Jeff Ulbrich mentioned Caden Ellis specifically about a guy that he wants Jalen Walker to
58:21at least partly replace in the defense. What did you think about that?
58:25I, yeah, it's so Walker, for those who've forgotten, we've seen as sort of a tweener.
58:30Maybe he'll play a hybrid role coming into the NFL.
58:33If that one's used him as an edge, right?
58:36So then I also saw those comments, Ellis leaves and there's talk.
58:39It's kind of similar to when he came into the league, like, oh, we're going to use him.
58:45Sometimes he'll be walking up the line scrimmage. Sometimes he'll be in coverage.
58:49I do question whether they can afford to do that, given how much they need him to get after the quarterback for
58:56all the reasons that I laid out. And I do think also like, I'd like to see him continue developing as a pass rusher.
59:03Cause I, I, I share your excitement. Like it was very fun to watch.
59:08Juice is the thing that just, the dude is super fast, super athletic, super, um, his motor runs really hot.
59:14He's got great eyes. I feel like he was constantly chasing quarterbacks, you know, like to the line, to the sideline because
59:21he's really good at diagnosing run pass. Uh, I do think like strength needs to improve a little bit and when they
59:28would like reduce him inside or whatnot, it wasn't that effective, but there's, I think he has the ability to continue getting
59:34better as a pass rusher and they, they need pass rush.
59:38I mean, this team that blitz is like crazy, but if you know, I mean, I will add they, they, uh, the
59:45defensive tackles, I think, uh, gave them some of that.
59:48Brandon Dorliss, uh, they have Zach Harrison. They traded for Mason Smith was an interesting player for player trade with, uh, I
59:55don't know what to make of that with Jacksonville with Rook Aroro.
59:58I don't know. But yeah, that was another like, why moment.
60:02Why did you do that? Rook Aroro was kind of fun.
60:05There's depth. Ojalary, Ebukombs, Ebukombs still in the league, by the way, Samson Ebukon.
60:09I was like, oh, here you are. Uh, but yeah, I do think Walker has to, we'll see what happens with Pierce,
60:16but Walker needs to be that guy. And be a complete player.
60:20Cause you know, Pierce, I think he got the sack totals last year, but he is also someone with a great first
60:27step and everything, but that's, that's it. That's all that's he, he's kind of compromising the integrity of the run defense and stuff.
60:34And a lot of big plays were, were at him and you're right.
60:38Walker has that juice, but to me, he could be a little bit more of a complete do everything like with pro bowl, all pro type of upside.
60:47If, if he continues and if Pierce is gone, you're right.
60:50Like, it's, it's just not a lot of juice up front and you're counting on a really good looking secondary, young secondary
60:57with like some potentially good players to carry the day.
61:00And you do have a guy in Jeff Ulbrich at defensive coordinator who makes me less worried about like this team build
61:07in a way, cause it really wouldn't have made sense that this defense, which felt like made for Raheem Morris and Jeff
61:14Ulbrich, like didn't have one of them coaching. But the fact that Ulbrich is still there and can get weird and get
61:21creative and knows these guys makes me feel better.
61:23Safeties. Great. Xavier Watts, uh, exceptional rookie season, 11 PBUs, five interceptions, Jesse Bates, maybe not quite at his peak, but still a very good player.
61:31Corner room, you know, I mean, AJ Terrell, I think is good and we'll see if his brother, Evian Terrell plays opposite him.
61:39That'd be a cool story if that happens right away.
61:42But there's some question marks. I believe Bowman got hurt last year.
61:45Your nickel. It's not a super deep group. No, with, with Bowman hurt, it could be Avian Terrell, maybe to be their nickel.
61:53But then you have Mike Hughes is like your corner on the outside, which was a problem.
61:58It wasn't great. I did. I've always liked AJ Terrell and I did think he fit well in this system.
62:04I guess any cornerback would, uh, because you don't have to cover as long with all the pressure, but he is an
62:11instinctive player that I think had a pretty good year last year.
62:15Yeah, I feel that to AJ, a beyond Terrell.
62:17I don't know how much I talked about him.
62:20I went back to my notes watching him. I do.
62:23There's a lot to like. I think he's a great athlete makes plays on the ball.
62:28I did write down that I felt like he got a little out physical at times.
62:33So I do, I don't know. We'll see how he, I mean, it is cool that he's my second.
62:39It's awesome. Uh, so we'll see. I, I have this earmarked as a step back defense candidly.
62:44I mean, I guess the saints to some extent as well, but I do there.
62:49I think some of those departures are a little tough and the Pierce thing is kind of, you know, his availability is
62:56also a pretty big factor and whatever the NFL does there, um, will probably impact how they are this season.
63:02But I do like the continuity with the coach.
63:05I don't know. The Falcons are hard, man. I, I don't really know what to make of this team right now.
63:11I don't either. Like I said, they're, they are the Y team to me and they will need a schematic advantage.
63:18I think they got among the best schematic advantages last year on defense.
63:22I think they did a good job. And so I think they're going to need that again, really, really on both sides.
63:29I don't think the talent is there even, even with the rest of this division.
63:33I'm not sure it's, it's right there with them.
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64:53Carolina Panthers, division winner. Sure. Unfortunately, just been devastated by the injury bug early.
64:58Offensively, Quanu, not surprising, starts on the injury list.
65:00But the Taylor Moten thing sucks. Taylor Moten blood clots, I believe.
65:04They're still not sure. Undergrowing treatment for about a month.
65:07Going to continue through the start of the season.
65:10He's their best offensive lineman. That sucks. Now they did address it even before they knew that, which really a good reminder,
65:17you can never have too many off. Anyone who thought, why do the Carolina Panthers need to sign Rashid Walker?
65:23Why do they need to draft an offensive tackle?
65:26Always be drafting offensive linemen because you never know when you need them and they're going to need them right away.
65:32Rashid Walker and Freeling are going to start. Interior, Damian Lewis, they brought in Luke Fortner, the Saints center.
65:38And Robert Hunt missed the entire season last year.
65:41That was a big deal. Okay. Bryce Young. So statistically, not great last year.
65:4531st DVOA, 30th in yards per attempt. There were some things he did well at.
65:50Didn't take a lot of sacks. Didn't throw a lot of interceptions.
65:54Threw a good deep ball. Just think if you wanted cope, uh, he faced the highest quick pressure rate of any starter
66:01and it looked like that when you watched, um, because of the aforementioned offensive line issues.
66:06But going back and rewatching, I w I went back and watched the, a couple of games.
66:11There are a few games, actually the bucks games, the Rams games, cause the Rams games were his, he was, he was probably at his best in them.
66:20I came away still feeling like pretty uncertain about all of it.
66:23Where are you at on Bryce Young right now?
66:26Yeah, I'm there. And I feel like they're there.
66:29And they being Dave Canales and their front office, which may be a part of the problem.
66:34If, if you were going to construct a Bryce Young offense, like if they had more confidence in him, is this the way they would construct it?
66:42Even going into last year where I think he finished the previous season playing well, but it was when they spread it
66:49out and started playing a little tempo and like, let them play.
66:53And then at the beginning of last year, they just went back to kind of the Dave Canales play action back to center stuff.
67:00By the end of the year, they're, they're playing more empty.
67:04They're mixing it up. If Bryce Young is, is going to work, I feel like him changing the play.
67:10And he does a lot of changing the play.
67:13Like, I think, I think as he gets older, he's always reminded me a little of Alex Smith, not as at, not
67:19as big and athletic as Alex Smith was. Uh, but if he's going to win, like win, maybe a similar way.
67:26And it's, it's almost handing the keys over to Bryce Young to run things.
67:30And I, I don't know if they're going to be that confident enough to do that.
67:35So I'm, I'm with you. I went back and I'm not sure what to feel.
67:40A lot of his best plays to me are him getting flushed out by those quick pressures and then making a good
67:47like second read while he's on the move. Like I think it was his best NFL season in terms of his overall play.
67:54It didn't quite show up in the stats, but it wasn't like a big enough step forward that you feel great about it long-term.
68:01Yeah. Looking at some of my notes from those games, I similar to you, a lot of the best stuff's outside of structure.
68:08Um, there's, he has arm talent. He throws a very catchable football.
68:12I don't think he really drives it like outside the numbers.
68:16You can see balls die on him a little bit like that rainy game against the bucks.
68:21I think that was week 18 that specifically showed up on, I think it was an interception like to the outside and stuff.
68:28Yeah. It was an outbreaker that dies on him to McMillan.
68:31Um, but then there's like great plays in that game.
68:35Like there's one where he stepped up in the pocket and beats McMillan on, or he hits McMillan on like a deep dig.
68:42That's just a beautiful ball. By the way, what Tedro McMillan did to those bucks corners, poor pension from Morrison, just disgusting.
68:49Like he was just cooking them. Um, I mean, I just wrote McMillan cooks Morrison, McMillan cooks perish.
68:54There's the deep post. Bryce is under a ton of pressure.
68:58So McMillan has to slow down, but I think it's defensible, but he just wrecks.
69:02Uh, I think it was perish on that play.
69:05Uh, yeah. So he, he's a touch, he's a touch quarterback, you know?
69:09Um, it's tough. Interior pressure is an issue and you saw them try to find solutions for that.
69:15I think if the offensive line, I mean, sucks that there already have these injuries early on.
69:20Uh, I, I think the Panthers, you know, we talked about Baker and how they, the bucks are in a tough spot.
69:27I think the Panthers reading between the lines are actually handling this correctly.
69:31I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like they're in any hurry to do a deal.
69:36They're like, yeah, sure. Fifth year option. Let's see.
69:39But like it it's, which is no small thing by the way, beyond this year, but I do think that they're approaching
69:46it with some skepticism and fairly the way quarterback contracts work now, even though Bryce Young was the number one overall pick
69:52like $25 million for next year guaranteed is, is just low enough that you're like, well, is that tradable?
69:58Like for, you know, another team where we take on some of the money that's, that's kind of low level starter money.
70:05I do feel like they, they could get out of it if they want.
70:10And, but he is like just improving enough. You mentioned like the preventing the mistakes.
70:14Like that's how he's going to win. I couldn't believe they were 31st in pace, which feels like a crime when Bryce Young is your quarterback.
70:22I think he could excel that way, but they're so young in the offensive line last year.
70:28And maybe this year again was so banged up that like, you just don't feel the confidence to like believe the guys
70:34on the field and like really understand it. So they, they don't have enough depth around them.
70:40The running game. I'm sure you were going to mention like it's, it was awful.
70:44And they were so run heavy. They stayed run heavy the whole time and it was terrible.
70:50So you mentioned the quick pressure, no running game.
70:52And so there were mitigating factors, but it, you know, there's some games where he just looks small.
70:58I hate to say it as a, as a small man myself.
71:02How do you feel about the pass catchers? McMillan, Coker, we get, they drafted Chris Brazel, speedster.
71:07Um, do you feel like that's enough or do you feel like they're still missing a guy?
71:12Yeah. They were screaming for like a Romeo Dobbs type, you know, in free agency, just like one more guy that didn't need to be like a star.
71:21Like if, if the Patriots were down to trade Kaysha on booty, I don't know if that's actually a great fit.
71:27Although I think he's more versatile than he would think either way.
71:31I'm, they just need like one more guy. Cause I, I like Chris Brazel.
71:36He spent some time at Tulane, did some good things, but another Tennessee receiver, like for that is just a boomer bus guy.
71:43They're talking, they're trying to talk up Xavier Leggett.
71:45Their tight end position is not great for pass catchers.
71:49Tommy tremble. And so it's, it's just not deep dynamic enough as much as I like Coker.
71:54And then we've already talked about how much I like T-Mac.
71:57Do you think T-Mac like has, cause he's already, I would say a top 15 receiver.
72:02Ooh. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I think so. If I'm saying he's in the class of Drake London, you're probably right.
72:08I did not try to think where he landed, but you're right.
72:12Um, maybe that's like, if you look on how many other teams would T-Mac be the number one wide receiver?
72:18Yeah. Like half the, half the league in the, in the ceiling seems high.
72:23It's kind of crazy how much draft debate there was about him now looking back.
72:27I liked him. I, and even as someone who liked him still even better than I thought, I think the thing I
72:34love the most about his game is just the, um, what did I say?
72:39And he's almost like, I said, yeah, I compared him to DeMar DeRozan.
72:43He's just like his, he's like an automatic mid range guy.
72:46And that actually pairs well with, and I think he could argue he could do more, uh, maybe with the quarterback, a
72:53different, um, uh, you know, quarterback is willing more to push the ball downfield.
72:57But as far as like how reliable he was working those intermediate throws really good fit for Bryce.
73:03And, and you really saw him, you know, benefit from his presence there.
73:07Totally. And one of Bryce's biggest strengths is that he does give his receivers a chance, which is why I thought last year was a step forward.
73:15It's like he was not putting the ball in harm's way.
73:19And yet I think he's an aggressive thrower. He gives Jalen Coker and McMillan chances.
73:23He just needs more ball winners. The Coker contract that they signed this off season is going to age like incredibly well.
73:30It was one of those like almost taking advantage of an undrafted free agent of just, uh, it's going to be one
73:37of the best contracts in the league. If he is as good as he looks to be.
73:42Defensively another brutal injury, Nick Scorton. This sucked. It sucked because I talked about this when I did the top didn't defenses.
73:49I was tempted to put the Panthers in there and cause I love the additions, but then I felt like, okay, you get, bring in Jalen Phillips.
73:57He's your number one. Scorton flashed enough last year to where I could be, I could imagine him benefiting from the attention
74:04that Phillips gets and taking another step forward. But outside of him, it's really a thin past rushing group.
74:10And so that to me was like the position where they probably could afford least to lose someone and to lose him in that way for the season.
74:19Just absolutely brutal. Yeah. I think you could argue between Moten and Scorton that's two of their eight, 10, 12 most important players on the team.
74:27I think Moten was the key guy to the, to the offensive line.
74:31And you mentioned it was Scorton because after it, they took a draft pick last year, Umman Mielin, who just didn't show
74:38anything barely could get on the field and it didn't look great when he did.
74:42And they don't have veterans. They seem again, it's early as we're, you know, it's late July.
74:48They should sign someone. Bring Clowney home. Come on, Genevieve Clowney.
74:51Clowney is just forever going to show up and show up in August, give you.
74:56He was pretty good for the Cowboys. 200 good reps a year.
74:59Joey Bosa is out there. I don't know how many, I don't know if Joey Bosa wants to play football again, but yeah, they, I think they will.
75:08They are a team that's going to have another veteran just because it's, it's not talented enough overall.
75:14I'm with you. I like Devin Lloyd. I like at linebacker.
75:17I like Jalen Phillips in terms of their pickups.
75:20I think they had a good off season. It's just been a brutal first week of camp.
75:25Yeah. I mean, like I keep saying this, but they have really good players at every position now.
75:31Safety, maybe a little dubious, but they're fine. Could be better.
75:34It's a funny defense. They finished second, 22nd in DVOA, which feels about right.
75:39Um, it's a funny difference because they had really good players who, so, and they had role players who became great players,
75:45but they just had such obvious holes that defense offenses knew how to attack.
75:50Um, I was looking up, so their past defense was, you know, they, they really struggled on third down, gave up a lot of conversions.
75:58So I looked this up on true media, uh, their EPA per play versus receivers lined up wide was actually ninth best
76:04in the NFL versus receivers in the slot. They were 30th and versus receivers lined up in line tight ends.
76:11They were 30th as well. So it's like, it's no mystery what offenses wanted to do against the Carolina Panthers, which is
76:17not thrown the direction of Mike Jackson and JC Horn whenever possible and go after their backers and their safeties and everyone, their nickel.
76:25And, uh, I think whether or not they improved, I think linebacker for sure, nickel and safety, a little bit more of a question mark, right?
76:33It's kind of a theme. If you, we talked about the receivers, you're talking about the secondary where you have a couple
76:40of guys you love, but their nickel back, I think right now projected is Chow Smith, Wade and Nick Scott, the former Bengal might be starting at safety.
76:48Like, we're not sure who's starting to even at linebacker where I love Devin Lloyd.
76:53I think his ascension is legit because to me it was over two years.
76:57He's, he's a playmaker. I think he was good the year before, but then it's like, Hmm, who's playing the other spot.
77:04And in Derek Brown, we haven't mentioned like, you know, their best player on, on defense for years and he's holding it
77:11down and he helped their run defense a ton, but they gave, after they swung and missed on Milton Williams, they gave
77:18a ton of money to Turk Wharton who had a good playoff run for the chiefs and gave them nothing last year.
77:25Unfortunately, it might've been impacted by an injury. He's coming off like a neck surgery and his status is totally uncertain for this season too.
77:33So it's a, it's a lot of positions where it's like a couple of good players, but not the full team build.
77:39And I have some sympathy for Dan Morgan who took over.
77:43Cause it was a, it was a rough looking roster when they got there.
77:47I imagine they're 26 and DBA. I mean, the fact that they were even, that was impressive given what they looked like.
77:54They did run defense the year before it was the worst in the NFL.
77:58It was, you know, just abysmal. And they really did.
78:01And obviously getting Derek Brown is probably the biggest part back from injury, but you did see improvement.
78:07I mean, you feel bad for Morgan. How about a Vero their defensive coordinator?
78:11Like, I just feel like he, he's been so up against it and it's like, okay, cool.
78:17We gave you good players this off season, but Oh, immediately you lose your first round, your second round rookie edge rusher.
78:23And Oh, by the way, you know, I don't know.
78:27He's one of those guys that ever, like, because the tree quote unquote, the Shanahan McVay tree is everywhere.
78:32They all love a zero ever. And supposedly they've like come after him almost every year, like for various jobs, but the Panthers never let him go.
78:41Cause it would be a lateral move. They, they believe in him and he has to be thinking like, can I, can
78:48I even show what I break or Lasky told me that he was a Vero was one of the most impressive coaches
78:54he met with in the NFL and like the meetings that they have for Monday night.
78:59I still think they can be good, but I do think they need more edge.
79:04And I feel like Mike Jackson's in a contract year.
79:07I mean, he, if he's anywhere close to what he was last year, he's going to get paid a zillion dollars.
79:14Good for him. You know what? I'll say this though.
79:17Okay. So we have Mike Jackson. I mean, some numbers, Mike Jackson last year.
79:21So good. 19 passes defense. Just insane. Big part of why by the Panthers were second in EVO, I believe versus number two wide receivers.
79:29Obviously got better matchups because of JC Horn, but he was the best corner.
79:33And here's what I'll say about this. You might think, well, what, how likely is it that he's going to repeat?
79:40Probably not going to have 19 passes defense again, but he was always good in Seattle, man.
79:45I'll just say like, he was never bad. And I think he took his game to another level in Carolina, but he
79:52was already a good, very underrated corner. And so I don't think there's going to be this huge step back.
79:58Like it was just this total aberration of a season with him.
80:02He and JC Horn give them an identity too on defense, which I appreciate you on Morrigan at safety too.
80:08Like they, the three of those guys are tough.
80:11Like they're not the biggest guys, but they're, they're flying around.
80:14It gives them an identity. The one thing I, we haven't mentioned with the Panthers, which now I've been a little low on them.
80:22Like, like I, they didn't feel like an eight win team last year.
80:26You know, I think they probably were more like a six win team, but they might have the best vibes of the entire division.
80:33Like Canales, there is something to the greater than the sum of their parts.
80:38And that this team build with Dan Morrigan, it does feel like that building and everyone is on the same page.
80:44And like the, the almost radical positivity of Canales as like the Pete Carroll successor, there is something to that.
80:50That might be, that might be enough in this division to make a difference over a team like the Bucks and the
80:57Falcons less so the saints, but like have like, you know, questions or just trying to figure out who they are.
81:04Canales definitely is Pete's spiritual successor for sure. Um, yeah.
81:07Todd Bowles is number one hot seat draft pick this season, right?
81:10Is there anyone who sees hotter right now? Aaron Glenn.
81:14Oh, Glenn. Yeah. There's, there are, I'm not being silly.
81:17There's probably not the Titans yet. I don't know.
81:19There are a few other options. Um, but he's up there.
81:23Bulls is up there. Top, except two or three Zach Taylor, maybe.
81:27Yeah. That's a sneaky one. Um, Stefanski. I agree with you.
81:30He just looks so tired. He just, he just needed a year off.
81:34That was good. And that the saints also feel like they have, they have the, like, we like our young quarterback vibes,
81:41which is a very powerful thing that when the team has that, you know, like Chicago, Denver, you know, all the, there's an impact there.
81:49Um, I feel like I know too much about Mickey Loomis, their GM over the years to feel like the vibes are ever like he was fighting.
81:57It seemed like him and Alvin Kamara were going through like a fight through the public.
82:02This, you know, there's always some drama. But you know what?
82:05I like that they brought him back. First of all, I, yes, he's not as, he's not who he was, but I
82:12do think the state's offensive line was a big part of that.
82:16And also just like, yes, finish good, you know, finish that the right way.
82:20I like that. I would love it too, which is why, you know, some of these players like Vita Vea, we don't
82:27need to, it doesn't need to be like the NBA where you're paying way on past performance, but I think you should
82:34get a little bit of a bonus for being that dude for your team for a while.
82:39Uh, okay. This is the hardest division to rank in the NFL.
82:43Probably the NFC North is up there with me for me.
82:46That's a tough one too. I've been battling with that one, but, uh, I'm going to, I'm going to shock you with my rankings.
82:54You might've picked up on it because we've had kind of gentle disagreement about this.
82:58I'm going saints. Wow. Taking the saints to win the division.
83:02This Vita Vea thing. So I get for me and I'll probably end up being nothing and they'll pay him to keep him.
83:09I don't care. I have talked myself into the saints rewatching them.
83:13I enjoyed watching Tyler Shuck. I'm optimistic about Jordan Tyson.
83:16I think the defense can be average. Um, I think Kellen Moore is a good coach, good play caller.
83:22The vibes are really good. I'm going saints, bucks, Panthers, Falcons.
83:25I do flip the top two and I have the bucks and saints ahead of Panthers third, Falcons fourth.
83:31You make me want to do it though. And just go saints first.
83:35Cause now when I'm watching, cause I went to school in new Orleans.
83:39I love a lot. Like when the saints are bad, I almost root against them more.
83:44Like I want them to be specially glad because they are disappointing me, but when they're good, I love it.
83:50I want them to be happy. And there's going to be a part of me now thinking as they like have this
83:57miracle 10, 11 win season Shucks playing great. I'm going to be like, I should have just picked them so I could
84:04enjoy this fully like Mina's doing right now. Only one quarterback in this division has come on the meeting.
84:10I'm show featuring Tyler shot. Is that true? It doesn't seem right.
84:14Uh, well I don't do interviews. Yeah. You don't do it.
84:17I did like a little interview series. Actually it was on YouTube.
84:21Did the big dumper. Um, yeah, Julio. Yeah. But I had a few, I did, I had Buda Baker.
84:27It was great. I had Levante David. Uh, but yeah, Tyler shock.
84:30I don't think I told him that I was a shock boy to his face.
84:35Should I make sure were you back then? Yeah, you were, you were.
84:39Yeah. People go back and revisit my draft preview, but I liked him.
84:43I was, you know, like, let's see, like, it wasn't all in.
84:47I wasn't thinking he's going to be top 10 quarterback or anything, but I liked him and I revisiting it.
84:53I liked him a lot. I felt like watching an NFL quarterback.
84:57I think he has a really high ceiling. He also could have like a Jameis Winston type career, which would be fun
85:04to watch, but like, I don't know how totally effective my, this isn't spicy in terms of believing in the bucks, but
85:10I disagree in terms of like that. It was a hard division for me.
85:15I guess I still am holding onto my priors.
85:18I still believe in a world where the bucks are like one of the 10 best teams in the league.
85:24Cause I believe in the roster construction and I believe in the lines.
85:28So I, I probably they're not their most likely outcome, but I do think like they have a real chance to be like a difference maker, a contender.
85:37Like I, I believe in the defense. I had it as a top 10 defense.
85:41That's why it's hard for me. Like this, this was the hardest number one pick every other division.
85:47I'm like, I think this is going to win.
85:50This is the most riskiest one for me. So we'll see NFC North.
85:54I have, I still have not made my mind.
85:56That's a tough one. That's a really, you're just doing it because saints Twitter.
86:01You're going to be the queen of saints Twitter for the year.
86:04I love all of these fan bases so much.
86:07They are great. That's the best NFL fan. If I was doing NFL fan base power rankings easily, easily in the top
86:1410, all four of these easily the best division too, which is what I was getting at the beginning where it's a
86:21little messy, but because of like the rivalries, because of the fan bases.
86:25I love rewatching these games. I love it so much.
86:28All right. That's it for the NFC South. Uh, go check out Greg's podcast, NFL daily.
86:33I haven't been on in a while. No big deal.
86:36It's fine. I'm around. Yeah. I felt like I burned, you know, my Mina Kimes guest appearance in the off season with
86:43Daniel Jeremiah, where we talked up Keontae Scott. So, uh, I can't wait to have you back on soon.
86:49Now it's a promise. Um, I'm seeing DJ on Saturday.
86:52I'm going to chargers camp synergy doing the NFL network for, I love that.
86:56I saw, you know, you're, you're going to, I don't know if they're going to give me Seattle with Ian Rappaport too.
87:03I mean, I know they haven't given me a, with the polos that you guys wear at those camps.
87:09I don't think I need to wear them anymore.
87:12So I'll, you know, maybe they fit. I got a lot of them.
87:16Uh, next week we're back. Like I said, final power rankings on Monday with Scott van Pelt, who's delightful.
87:22And then, uh, we move on to the North or the AC South.
87:26Sorry. AC South. AC South. Brett Coleman's going to come on and do that one.
87:30Uh, so check this out wherever you get your pods.
87:34We're on YouTube as well. You can follow me on Instagram, Instagram.com slash at Munich times.
87:39People are in the comments fighting about Bill comparing Lamar Jackson to Joel Embiid.
87:43So hop on in and join. And like I said, please leave a review.
87:47Let me know what you've liked. Let me know who your favorite guest is and why it's Greg Rosenthal.
87:53Let me know stuff you'd like me to cover more in depth and I will be reading them all.
87:59Oh, thank you. As always to my friends at home all productions, Keirsa Sebecki, Owen Saylor, Jack Foster, Tucker Tashen, who make the show.
88:06You know when you're locked in, focused and fearless.
88:09Welcome to the WNBA. Your vision narrows. You can't look away.
88:13Every assist, every stop, every logo three. From beyond.
88:15Every did you see that moment. You bet. What records are going to be broken this season?
88:21All of it right here. Lock in. It's the WNBA on ESPN.
88:24All season long. All in.
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