0:00Welcome to The Athletic Football Show brought to you by the US Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card.
0:05No Dave today, he's dealing with some family stuff.
0:07It's me and Derrik Klassen on the Week 4 Preview.
0:10Lot of fun conversations on this one. Raiders Chiefs is the game of the week.
0:14We had to spend some time with the 3-0 Raiders and what has kind of taken them to this point so far.
0:20Also chatted about the Niners offense against the Broncos defense, some Sicko Street that involved Mike Tomlin's Minecraft obsession, and a lot
0:26more from the Week 4 slate with me and Derek.
0:28Let's get to it right now. Digging into the Week 4 slate in the NFL, we have, let's say, one and a half games of the week.
0:36One game we're really going to dig into, another where we're going to spend most of our time on one side of the ball.
0:42This might be our only chance to do this, or at least it's a surprising opportunity, at the very least.
0:48The 3-0 Raiders are playing the 3-0 Chiefs. One of these teams is going to be 4-0 at the end of Week
0:544, and it might be the Las Vegas Raiders.
0:56We have not talked a ton about the Raiders.
0:59We hit on them on the Sunday night show, but really wanted to spend some time today, Derek, digging into what the
1:04Raiders specifically have done this year as, obviously, I think the most surprising 3-0 team in the league.
1:09I mean, they have as many wins, I think, as they did all of last year.
1:14Like, the way that they are playing, and obviously, you know, again, you make a good point of like, I don't know
1:20how many games of the week they'll play, because this will probably taper off a little bit, but they are a seriously good team.
1:26Like, they're very well coached. They have enough star players on both sides of the ball that they can make a lot of games interesting.
1:33And the other thing, like, I know that this is a new Raiders team than it has been in the past couple of years.
1:39Doesn't it feel like Raiders Chiefs games are always really weird for one reason or another?
1:44You have like the Christmas game where like Patrick Mahomes plays one of the worst games of his life.
1:49And then you have last year where the Chiefs defense played like one of the best defensive games of the century against
1:55Geno Smith in that version of the offense. Like every Raiders Chiefs game just feels bizarre.
1:59Wasn't it a Black Friday game two years ago?
2:02That was another weird game. So they played the Christmas game was three years ago.
2:06The Black Friday game was two years ago. That was also weird.
2:09Like, there have been plenty of weird Raiders Chiefs games, even when there has been a bigger gap, even when the Raiders
2:15haven't been a buttoned up put together team in the way they are right now.
2:19Yes, exactly. So now the fact that they're good, well, shoot, what does that mean?
2:23So I'm excited to dig into this one. Let's start with when the Chiefs had the ball in this game, just because
2:29I think those to me are the two most compelling units in this game right now for just a bunch of different reasons.
2:35Let's start with the Chiefs offense. I think it is hilarious that the Chiefs this offseason, every single thing that people wanted
2:41them to do in order to modernize the offense, make it easier on the quarterback, just become a harder offense to play against.
2:47They've done all of those things. There have been some other teams.
2:51We'll talk about one of them today where there was so much offseason discourse about we're moving under center.
2:56We're going to play a little bit differently. The two teams that we said that about coming into the year that we're
3:02wondering how much was going to happen were the Bengals and the Eagles.
3:05The Bengals and the Eagles are 31st and 32nd in success rate on under center passes this year.
3:10The Chiefs, there were another team where we were wondering how much are they going to lean into this?
3:15How much is it going to matter? How different is the offense going to be?
3:19The answer is extremely different, and they've seen some real benefits from that so far this year.
3:24They really have. And I think that there are a couple of different reasons for that.
3:28I think one, you know, we talk about especially like the Eagles and the and the Bengals.
3:33I think that there were serious concerns about whether the quarterbacks like those were things that they wanted to do.
3:38Those were offenses they wanted to play in. I think with Mahomes, like we've seen the Chiefs do some of this before
3:44and they've been good at it at times. It's just I think part of the reason they've gotten away from it at
3:50certain times is that the run game was never there enough to really make it worth it.
3:55Like they had the one year, I think in 2022 or 2023 where the run game really was good enough to do some of that stuff.
4:02Last couple of years, they haven't been able to you bring in Ken Walker.
4:06You can run the ball on your own terms.
4:08And I think that's the important part is being able to do it on your own terms and be explosive.
4:14It forces defenses to play you in a little bit of a different way.
4:17You can get more to your 12 personnel hard play action stuff.
4:21You can boot more effectively like you can and like you see too, like they're doing some of the stuff where they'll
4:27shuffle a guy in and it looks like insert duo and they run the corner off of it or they like play
4:33action the other way and they bring that guy on a crosser and they do all this stuff like that's just stuff
4:39that if they tried that a year or two ago, you might catch a defense every now and then, but they're not
4:45like scared of it because they don't give a shit if you're going to run out of that look or not.
4:50And now they actually have to be terrified of that.
4:53They're just pulling all the levers that a lot of really good offenses in the NFL pull.
4:58I think that's what the chiefs offense looks right now.
5:00It looks like right now. And you're seeing a bunch of the benefits just to put some numbers on it.
5:06Last year, per next gen, the chiefs are under center on 18 and a half percent of their snaps this year.
5:11It's 39.7%. It's just a massive increase from one season to the next.
5:15The staff that really jumped out to me. So this season, the chiefs on under center play action throws 14 of 18,
5:210.59 EPA per play, 13 yards per attempt, 73.7% success rate on under center play action.
5:25It's staggering. They have more total EPA. Like so a cumulative number on play under center play action throws this year through
5:31three games than they've had in three of the last four seasons over the course of the entire season.
5:36In three games, if they did that with half of an NFL season, like if you were saying that by week eight
5:42or week nine, that would be impressive, let alone doing that three games into the season.
5:47And it just makes it's it looks so right.
5:49It speaks to what you're saying where it doesn't feel out of place for them.
5:53The first play of the game against the Dolphins, they're in heavy personnel under center play action.
5:58And you have Kelsey on one of those big Seattle corner outs, and it goes for a huge chunk gain.
6:03It's like this is you can play this way like you have the opportunity to play this way and see the benefits of it.
6:10And it is just so gratifying to see them lean into all of this stuff and realize all of the benefits that
6:16come with it that everyone wanted them to try to access.
6:19And I do think the Kelsey part of it is important.
6:22Like all of the schematic stuff is obviously really important and a huge benefit to them.
6:26The fact that Kelsey looks better and smoother this year, and you bring in Kenneth Walker like the personnel on this team is just better.
6:33And I think we've been saying on the show for years, like the receiver talent needs to be better if they really want to take the next step.
6:40And I still do believe that like I would like for them to have a receiver better than the guys that they have.
6:46But the fact that what you're getting out of the tight end spot and what you're getting out of the running back
6:52spot are more effective and more explosive. Now that is that can make up enough of the gap that we felt last
6:58year where even if this is an imperfect wide receiver core, the guy throwing them the ball is still pretty damn good.
7:04And so he can make up enough of that gap when he's getting help from those other guys.
7:09And like you said, some of the scheme stuff they're doing.
7:12I think it's a really cool combination of what they're doing, accentuating the talent and illuminating the talent of their best players
7:18and kind of covering up for their weaker players.
7:21When you look at just what the entire offense is in combination, the way they're running the ball under center, not only
7:27as a way to unleash Kenneth Walker, so many of these runs are hitting right off of the center and right guard.
7:33And so you're really feeling how good and potent the combination of Creed Humphrey and Trey Smith is in a way that
7:39you didn't when you weren't leaning on the ground game as much.
7:42And so you have this kind of quartet and maybe five group of five players, if you want to include Kelsey, that
7:48are the most important players in the offense. And what they're doing is really illuminating and accentuating those players.
7:53When you have a ton of under center play action as the foundation of the offense, and then you combine it with
7:59what their gun passing game looks like, which is all incredibly quick, get the ball out of our hands, throwing a ton of screens on non-play action passes.
8:06Mahomes is time to throw right now is 2.45 seconds.
8:09He's averaging five area yards per attempt. And on those plays, they have a 48% success rate and are averaging 0.1 EPA per drop back per next gen.
8:17Those numbers are good. And with both of those, either heavy personnel under center play action, or we're getting the ball out of our hands quickly.
8:24You're seeing all the good players shine. You're not noticing that the tackles may struggle in pass protection.
8:29It's like, it's what good offense feels like. It's a long-winded way of saying good offenses highlight your best players and minimize your worst players.
8:35And that's exactly what the Chiefs have done just with the formula that they've been using so far this year.
8:41And it's funny too, because a lot of the screen stuff thrown quick on the perimeter, all that jazz, they were due.
8:47They've been doing a lot of that stuff for the last couple of years, but when teams weren't scared of inside run
8:53of giving up explosives of the play action game, when Patrick Mahomes is just going to drop straight back, you can spend
8:59a little bit more of your mental stack and your resources on like, okay, I'm going to go kill this screen.
9:04I'm going to be ready for this. We're going to tackle in the flat.
9:08But if defenses are having to think about actually getting and handling a lot more concepts, the screen stuff becomes opened up again.
9:14And like, even if their receivers are not perfect or not very good at a lot of things, Rasheed Rice and Xavier
9:20Worthy with the ball in their hands can make plays, especially Rasheed Rice.
9:24That's what Rasheed Rice does. That's the best thing that he does.
9:27Building it out of a ton of Rasheed Rice screens is probably how the way you should be using Rasheed Rice.
9:33And again, this is a broader way of talking about their limitations, but how many times when we were talking about the
9:39Chiefs in the offseason, we were like, man, even after week one, when it's third and seven, are you going to believe in this team?
9:46The Chiefs this season have faced 21 third and medium and third and long dropbacks.
9:50That is the fourth lowest rate in the league, fourth lowest number in the league.
9:54The three teams ahead of that and that fewer third and long or third medium dropbacks, the Niners, the Ravens and the Jags.
10:00Think about what we wanted the Chiefs offense to feel like.
10:03We wanted to feel more like those teams. And so now the fact that they're grouped with those teams because they're gashing
10:09you on first and 10 because of the way that they're playing, it's everything that I've ever wanted.
10:14They are. We're giving the best quarterback in the NFL this sort of support and help.
10:18And I think that this is important, too, because part of the reason the Rams were as successful as they were last
10:24year is they were able to avoid these certain situations.
10:27And for them, it was partly protecting their tackles and then partly protecting like Matthew Stafford when it's pure pass and stuff like that.
10:33He's just not going to move as well. Obviously, with Mahomes, he can bail you out in some of those scenarios.
10:39You do have to protect these tackles a little bit, though.
10:42You're on Khalil Benson at left tackle who like given the situation like undrafted rookie and all that stuff has acquitted himself fine.
10:48Still a player who like you would like to have your starters there.
10:52And then Jalen Moore, I think, is mediocre kind of like replacement level tackle for them.
10:56And so them staying out of pure pass where you're just not in as many situations where those guys are going to be exposed.
11:03What makes this matchup particularly intriguing is that the Chiefs offense is playing at this level and the Raiders defense has been excellent through three games.
11:10Excellent. You look at the numbers per next gen, third in EPA per play so far this year, the Raiders defense.
11:15The only teams that have been better than them are the Seahawks and the Vikings.
11:19And so I wanted to just spend a little bit of time talking about what the Raiders defense even is.
11:25Who are they? What are they trying to do?
11:27Just give a little bit of context to what this unit has been, what their identity is for people who may not
11:33have been watching the Raiders up close over the first three weeks of the season.
11:37So if you were just trying to articulate who the Raiders are trying to be on that side of the ball and
11:43which guys make it go for Rob Leonard's unit, how would you try to articulate that?
11:48I think for me, a lot of the way that it goes is one, we already Max Crosby was obviously incredible and
11:54we knew that, but I think what you're getting out of all the other ancillary players up front or guys that they
11:59had just brought in, I think has been really impressive for one, whenever they're in base or if they see heavy personnel,
12:0512, 13, whatever it is, Quay Walker is on the line of scrimmage all the time.
12:10And that to me is good coaching because he's, he's long, he can set the edge, you can do that stuff, but
12:16it protects him in coverage for a little bit.
12:18And like it protects him like he's a fine stack linebacker.
12:21He's better when he can just go and hit people.
12:24And so them getting into different fronts because they can use him that way, I think has been really smart in the run game.
12:30They do a lot of like stunting, stemming the front, all this stuff.
12:34And the reason being, what is the Kobe Dean good at?
12:37He can read stuff fine. He's also best just being shot out of a cannon and going and getting backfield, dude, I
12:43know exactly what you're going to bring up. Yep.
12:45Going downhill into the backfield. That is while watching tape alone in my office, the loudest reaction I have had to an NFL play this season by far.
12:53I had an audible reaction to, I can't remember exactly when it happened in the game, but he just flies downhill and takes grass.
12:59I think it was Kamara. And he just decleted him like in a cartoonish varsity blues, any given Sunday sort of way.
13:05It was insane. Yeah. Cause it's what they do a lot is they'll take whoever that a gap player is Tonka Hemingway,
13:11Adam Butler, whoever, which by the way, both of those guys are playing really, really well right now.
13:16And we can talk about that in a minute, but they'll stem one of those guys away.
13:21And N'Kobe Dean just fires and they get these free runs for like, for a guy who is that fast and closes.
13:27It's like, if, if anyone has watched the Seahawks defense, you see Drake Thomas do that a million times.
13:32And obviously N'Kobe Dean doesn't need to be protected as much in that way, but he's really, really good at it.
13:38And so what I think the front in particular, the way they put everybody in the best position to win, I think
13:44has been really, really impressive thus far. My biggest concern about them personnel wise coming into the season, the Raiders defense was the interior defensive line.
13:51That was, that was my biggest concern. I was worried they would get blown off the ball as other teams tried to run the ball against him.
13:58And that just hasn't happened in part because of how those guys are playing.
14:02Tonka Hemingway was, I believe a fifth round pick last year or fourth round pick.
14:06And so he's in year two as a young player.
14:08He's playing really well for them. Fully Fatoukasi has given them some decent snaps.
14:12Like those are their starting early down defensive tackles.
14:15And those guys have played well and they've needed to play well, because again, if we get to why, who are the Raiders?
14:21How do they want to play? A lot of what they're trying to do is similar to these Seattle Mike McDonald adjacent defenses.
14:27They're playing with a ton of light, and it makes sense, right?
14:30Clint Kubiak comes from Seattle last year. And then Rob Leonard, who was with the Raiders staff defensively last year as the defensive line coach.
14:37He was with Mike McDonald in Baltimore in 2023.
14:40And so he has history with this. When I made the comparison to the Jags on the Sunday night show where I
14:46was like, I can't remember when I did that, but I said, what if Rob Leonard is just this year's Anthony Campanile?
14:52Anthony Campanile. Yeah. So he has a lot. So he worked with a bunch of different types of staffs.
14:57He was on the floor of staff in 2021 with Anthony Campanile.
15:00And so he has a very similar, like shared defensive background in the way that Campanile does.
15:05But if you look at the identity, they're playing with a ton of light boxes and they're a ton of two high shells against the run.
15:1266% of runs against the Raiders this year have come into two high shells.
15:15That's a higher rate than the Cowboys with Christian Parker coming from a Fangio defense.
15:19That's higher rate than the Eagles who are a Fangio defense.
15:22So that's how they want to play it. And they've held up fine.
15:26They're like a middle of the pack run defense when you, and that's good enough when you're playing this way.
15:31And so that's what they've wanted to do structurally against the run against the pass.
15:35If you look at the coverage menu and like what they're trying to do, it is so similar to what the coverage menu looks like for the Seahawks.
15:43There's a little bit more single high and cover three compared to like cover six, but it's the menu looks pretty similar.
15:49The blitz rates look pretty similar. And even the way they're playing looks pretty similar.
15:53Like the get the space and air they get in depth, they get in some of these zone coverages.
15:58There are two teams in the NFL so far this season that have created at least negative one EPA per drop back on throws of 20 plus yards.
16:06It's the Seahawks and the Raiders. And if you watch the way that they play, it's not surprising.
16:11Not at all. And part of the magic with the Seahawks is if you're going to play this way, you're going to
16:17play so many of these two high shells, you're going to kind of concede space and you're going to like make sure that you're on top of everything.
16:24Well, if you can't run up and tackle in the flat, when you give up all of those easy completions, then it doesn't matter.
16:31Like the Chargers have been under Jesse Minter, the Chargers were very good at this.
16:35The Eagles have typically been good at this. The Seahawks have been good at this, like that style of defense.
16:40You have to be able to do it. The way that these guys come up and tackle is impressive to me.
16:46Like I think like the corners, I think have been up to the task.
16:50Nekobe Dean in particular has been insane at like quick to the flat.
16:53Anytime he gets a check down, he's on it.
16:56If he sees a shallow coming back his way, he's instantly killing it.
16:59Like his ability to get space when he needs to get to his landmarks, but come down and make sure as soon
17:05as the quarterback triggering, I'm getting on top of it.
17:08He's, he's been phenomenal. I mean, he's, I do want to sit on him for a second.
17:12He has been even better than he was in Philly, honestly.
17:15Like he was a good player in Philadelphia. I think he has truly taken a step for this defense.
17:21He's been phenomenal through three games. We've seen these types of contracts work out for linebackers.
17:25The linebacker is a position where you really do age into your best football as you get into your second deal.
17:31And because some teams and with the Eagles specifically, they accounted for it, right?
17:34They drafted Shahad Campbell in the first round. They signed Zach Vaughn and committed to him financially in a way they probably
17:40would never would have imagined when they drafted N'Kobe Dean.
17:43So he just happened to be the odd man out.
17:46And this just isn't that surprising. He was already a good player.
17:49And we see linebackers in their age 25, 26, 27 season able to do stuff like this.
17:54And so incredibly cool stuff from him so far.
17:56The two other guys I would shout out, you are talking Hemingway is one of them, just in terms of why this feels a little bit different.
18:03And I think Teron Johnson is doing some really good stuff, especially against the run.
18:07This team plays nickel like 84% of the time.
18:10Your nickel needs to be a physical run defender if you're going to play that way.
18:14And he's coming downhill. Like he has really given them some physicality from that spot in a way that they've needed based on how they're trying to play.
18:22And honestly, that was surprising to me. I thought Teron Johnson had kind of lost it a little bit.
18:27Like I just, I thought the last year or two, just not as physical, not as quick in the run game.
18:33I think the coverage stuff you love had lost a little bit from him, but for whatever reason, I don't know where,
18:39what fountain of youth he's found or whatever, but he does, he is playing much better football than I had anticipated for them.
18:45The funny thing about going back and watching the saints game over again is that in the early part of that game,
18:51they were trying like a lot of pass rush stunts where you got Crosby doing these like big loot, like just being
18:57a looper in like a slow kind of comical way.
19:00It just looked very messy. And then in the second half, they were just like this.
19:04And they just started bringing five man pressures and letting guys pin their ears back.
19:08And Malcolm Kuntz is somebody else that's worth mentioning.
19:10Like he really seen it from him. And I think that specifically what we saw from the pass rush, when they really
19:16let their guys go in the second half, that's the part I'm watching in this game against the chiefs.
19:21If you can stop the run on early downs, get them into more of those third and sevens.
19:26Can that group Crosby, Kuntz, Quiddy Pay to an extent.
19:29Can we see the limitations of those tackles for the chiefs in a way we really haven't so far this season?
19:35And I think if I'm, if I'm the chiefs, that is what I'm most worried about.
19:39Like, I think when you're going to get, you know, Max Crosby lines up a lot over the right tackle.
19:44I think him versus Jalen Moore, that is huge advantage.
19:47Max Crosby, like he is, he's playing on, if not first team, all pro track right now, like definitely second team.
19:53Like he is again, one of the best edge rushers in the league.
19:56He's been phenomenal, both run and pass. And then Kuntz, like if he's going to line up on the other side, he
20:02often does line up like to the quarterback's blind side.
20:05Again, Khalil Benson has been fine. You can get the corner on him.
20:09Like he's just not quite as athletic as some of these other guys.
20:12And a guy like Kuntz, that's what he's really good at.
20:15He can get the corner on you and he can really turn it.
20:19He had a handful of really impressive reps the last couple of weeks doing exactly that.
20:23And so I do think that there's a world that the Raiders run defense is good enough that if you just get
20:29two drives, two or three drives where you can force a third and nine, a third and 10, whatever it's going to be.
20:35And on those one or two plays, Max Crosby just tears off and make a play.
20:40I do think that that's probably what they're going to need to make this thing work for them.
20:44The question will be whether the offense has enough.
20:47And let's dig into that a little bit. When you watch the Raiders offense right now, it's funny because in week two,
20:53they did scheme up a lot of really cool stuff.
20:55Some of the vertical plays that they hit. And then last week it was just all Brock Bowers all the time.
21:01Like that's what the offense was. And so I'm just wondering at three weeks into the season, as you've gone back and
21:07watch this, what are your just general impressions of the Raiders offense, who they're trying to be and how effective that's looked so far?
21:14I'm really impressed with what they do, given what they have.
21:17I think that they are an offense that does a really good job of stressing your, your rules.
21:22Like, I think that they're pure drop back game stuff.
21:24Like they're going to make you wrong. They're going to run with crossers you don't want to be running with.
21:30They're going to put, especially I think middle of the field defenders, like they run a lot of like swirl concepts, you
21:36know, like whatever you want to call it, where basically you have like a little spot route and the dig behind it,
21:42stuff like that, or constraint plays off of that, that really mess with those middle of the field players.
21:47And I think they, Kirk Cousins does a really good job of seeing and throwing them.
21:51And so I think the first couple of weeks you saw them having to do that stuff.
21:56I also think some of their schemed up shot plays have been good.
21:59Like the call they had against cover two against the Chargers getting Trey Tucker open, I thought was fantastic.
22:04They have a good sense for when and how to call that.
22:08And then I thought last week with Bowers, I don't think he's going to get 13 targets every week.
22:13I hope he does. I mean, I hope he does too.
22:16I think he's an incredible player. I just think them like force feeding him the ball that way, that to me felt
22:22like a, this is his first game. This is our best player.
22:25Let's go see how far we can push this.
22:27And I think obviously it worked really, really well for them.
22:30I think over the course of the year, we're going to get more to a blend.
22:35And so I think I have been impressed with them.
22:37You still see some limitations, right? Like the wide receiver core is pretty limited in a lot of ways.
22:43It's still not great. Even if Trey Tucker, I think is having a pretty good season.
22:47And then Kirk Cousins just limits some of what the offense can do compared to what Kubiak could do with Sam Darnold.
22:53The arm talent is obvious. The other thing is with Sam Darnold, and this is still true of the Seahawks, huge boot team.
22:59They're a team that they just rolled out a ton, especially from under center off of all their outside zone stuff.
23:05Kirk Cousins is just not a threat when he's on the move like that.
23:09He doesn't throw as well. He does not. He's not a threat to run the way that Sam Darnold can.
23:14And so I think they've a little bit struggled to piece together the offense in the same way as they did in Seattle.
23:20I still think they're doing a really good job personnel wise.
23:23I agree with that. I think you just feel some of the limitations, right?
23:27So their run game, their bottom seven in EPA per rush, but their fourth in Russia rate.
23:32And I think some of that is just the gambit that Clint Kubiak was entered into last year.
23:36When you structure the offense that way, the most important thing you do is you hide the offensive line and the pass
23:42protection for this team, given the personnel up front has been way better than you ever would have hoped the same way it was for Seattle last year.
23:50And so there's a little bit of give and take there, but the run game has not been very good.
23:55That's been one of the areas where they've struggled.
23:58They've not been very explosive. They're 28th in explosive play rate.
24:01And I think overall, outside of Trey Tucker, it's just not an explosive group of players like Mike Washington and the backs
24:07kind of are Bowers, I guess, but Bowers even isn't that type of player.
24:11Bowers is explosive insofar as like, you know, we often say explosives are like 16 plus yard passes.
24:15He can get you a lot of those. You're not going to get that many like 50 yard, like monster chunks.
24:21Like it's not that style of explosive. And even, and the, to me, the player where you feel the, it, you look
24:27at what Kirk Cousins is, even compared to what Sam Darnold is.
24:30And like you said, with the boots, there's just a, there's a gap in explosiveness and pop between those players.
24:36Kirk is doing an admirable job. Kirk is 38 years old.
24:39Kirk wasn't an explosive player when he was at his physical peak.
24:42And so when you're watching him, you just, you feel that lack of oomph with what he can bring to the position.
24:48And I think ultimately that's going to lower the ceiling for what this team can be on offense, but the floor and
24:54what they're trying to do and what the combination of like Bowers and Gentry give you and what Kubiak is doing as
25:00a play caller is so, so much higher than it was for this team last year.
25:04And I think exactly what you were signing up for when you made this hire and when you decided you wanted to be this team.
25:11Yeah. That's the thing. You can clearly see the vision for it.
25:14One last thing I do want to note for this game specifically, Ashton Gentry was really bad in pass pro last week
25:20against the Saints and you run up against Spags, man.
25:23He's, he's going to test you on it. And I do think, I do wonder like how many times they really try
25:29to stick him up in pass pro and see how that's going to work out for them.
25:34All right, let's get to our other game of the week.
25:37Broncos at Niners. Wanted to mostly focus on the Niners offense against the Broncos defense in this game.
25:41I think that's the more interesting single matchup. And then just to talk about what the Niners offense has done so far
25:47this year, I tweeted this stat out earlier today that you can mention a million of them for the Niners.
25:53The Niners have created a first down on like 54 and a half percent of their non play action passes this year.
25:59The team that's in second place is the bills.
26:01They're at 41. The gap between the Niners and the bills at one and two is bigger than the gap between the bills and Titans in 22nd place.
26:09That's crazy. You are like a full, like standard deviation better than everybody else.
26:13It's been absolutely ridiculous. Like I actually, I went back and I watched and we can talk about some of the specifics of it.
26:19I thought that the Cardinals game plan last week against them was really good and really interesting.
26:24The Cardinals last week per next gen played less single high against the Niners than any team has played in the last five years.
26:30And what happened is that they did a great job of taking away some of those middle of the field chunks that
26:36the Niners really like to seek out the first big hit that Mike Evans took.
26:40They're trying to throw an in breaker to Mike Evans and that backside safety in quarters is just sitting on it, waiting for it.
26:47And so they played a ton of quarters, a ton of cover six, a ton of cloud.
26:51And they're like, we are not going to let you get these chunks down the field.
26:56We know that's what you want to do. And so the Niners passing game in the first half had more fits and starts than normal.
27:02So they come out in the second half and they're just like, all right, fine.
27:06If you want to do this, we're going to run the ball down your throat.
27:11And if you want to sit in quarters and leave the linebackers like in underneath coverage, a little bit vulnerable, we have
27:17George Kittle and Kyle Shanahan and Brock Purdy. And so they are right now, and I know they've played against the Dolphins
27:22and the Niners and the Rams in a weird game in Australia, but you just felt over the course of that game,
27:28how based on the coaching, based on the personnel, whatever avenue you force them down offensively, they're going to be comfortable exploring that avenue and living that way.
27:36And there just aren't that many offenses in the league that to me feel that flexible in any given moment.
27:41It might be the most flexible a Kyle Shanahan offense has ever felt.
27:45Like, I think even when they've been at their best, it usually has been like a very particular way that they are doing it.
27:512023 is probably the other example where they started to do more of the drop back stuff like this with Brock Purdy,
27:57obviously really weaponizing CMC in a different way. This feels like they have gotten back to that level where they really can do a little bit of everything.
28:05And I would even say, even though they were doing more of the drop back stuff in 2023 than they ever really
28:11did with Jimmy, Purdy was not as good at it as he is now.
28:15I think, like, I think the way that he sees it, the way that he throws it, I think is, is better.
28:21And so even if he has some other issues, like I do think in this game, like, because they were doing such
28:27a good job of like robbing some stuff out of the too high stuff, like he probably should have thrown a couple of picks.
28:33I do think that what he's doing underneath with how they can run the ball.
28:37And the other thing is like, he did almost have those couple of picks, but like, you need to test down the
28:43field five, six, seven times, whatever it's going to be in this offense to allow the underneath and run game stuff to work.
28:49Because when it does, they just punch you in the face for like a 70% success rate and march down the field.
28:55I don't mind that. If he's got a couple of those, that's what I'm saying.
28:59He's got a few of those. Like, I would rather see him play that way and have it be a little bit
29:05more on the razor's edge than watching them just get clamped down with teams playing a bunch of quarters against them all
29:11the time and just eating everything up underneath. And the way that they felt last year when they played the Seahawks, you're
29:17going to have to push the ball down the field in order to reach your ceiling as an offense.
29:23And I don't mind him being a little bit aggressive.
29:25And I'm with you. I've landed in a place with Purdy where he, this is a fan.
29:30We talked a lot about quarterback situation on the midweek show.
29:33I think there are people who were a little bit frustrated that we didn't talk about Brock Purdy.
29:38And I think the place that I land with Brock Purdy is Brock Purdy has been in a great situation since he entered into the NFL.
29:45Like he has Kyle Shanahan, even if there have been some injuries, the fact that Kyle Shanahan is there.
29:50I said the Niners had the third best quarterback supporting cast in the NFC coming into the season.
29:55And I think people push back on that because the injury concerns and everything else go watch with the offenses.
30:00The offense is incredibly well-designed. It is meticulously put together, but at the same time, you have a quarterback that is perfectly
30:06suited to get the most out of it. He is so, so good at being the maestro of this thing because of
30:12how fast he reads stuff out, how efficient he is in reading that stuff out.
30:16And he can do so much off schedule. Like there are not that many quarterbacks in the league right now that I
30:22think could be doing a better job with the Niners offense than Brock Purdy is doing.
30:26If you put him in average circumstances in somebody else's offense, I don't know what it would look like, but I think
30:32the list of guys who could do what he is doing in the Niners offense right now is very, very short.
30:38I agree. Like the way that they are, the particular way that they are trying to play football.
30:43And also, we're never going to have to see Brock Purdy anywhere else anyway.
30:47Like so long as him and as long as Kyle Shanahan is in town and unless he gets a bunch of injuries,
30:53like it's probably going to be here for the next six, seven, eight years, whatever it's going to be.
30:58And so he is the perfect quarterback for what they want to do right now.
31:02Like the way that the offense is functioning with all the drop back stuff, really attacking teams underneath.
31:07I do think that he's been very, very good at it.
31:10And like Kyle Shanahan, it's funny because, and maybe this really was more product of Jimmy Garoppolo or past quarterbacks that he's had before.
31:16But like six or seven years ago, I remember being like, man, Shanahan is one of the best at it, but the
31:22pure past stuff is just like not his best realm.
31:25And ever since he's gotten CMC, it's, they've been like the best in the league at being able to scheme up that sort of stuff.
31:32That to me is what's really impressed me about him as a play caller and a play designer over the last few years.
31:38And it really did start in 2023. Like you said, like when Purdy came into the lineup and they were able to
31:44do more of the pure progression drop back stuff.
31:46And CMC also was a huge part of it.
31:49Like McCaffrey changed the identity of the offense. It was a combination of McCaffrey as a receiver and the strengths of the
31:55quarterback relative to the other guys that they had had transform what the offense felt like.
31:59And it makes them to me more resilient situationally than even a team like the Rams.
32:03Like we talked about this, like what McVay and that group in pure past situations on third and medium, third and long,
32:09just don't have as many answers as a team like this does.
32:13Like they're when they're, it's when it's third and seven, they're not worried.
32:16When it's third and seven, they're not concerned. They've got answers in those situations.
32:20And that wasn't always the case when the Niners were an under center play action team.
32:24They're an under center team, but they are a drop back team now in a way that they didn't used to be.
32:30And in a way that has drifted away from a lot of the other Shanahan Kubiak guys that still do rely on
32:36that as like a baseline for who they want to be on early downs.
32:40And again, some of this is quarterback driven to like Jimmy Garoppolo from even or behind was just not going to bail you out of games.
32:47And like pretty is not into Josh Allen tear or whatever, but like he can do some shit when he has to
32:53like on a third down scramble and stuff, even if the Niners offense is wrong in the call in the play that they call.
33:00He could get a 50 yard scramble in his last game.
33:03I don't remember if it was on a third down, but got called back for some sort of like late holding, like
33:09halfway down the field that he like was already 20 yards down the field by the time it happened.
33:14Like he, he does have that gear to him.
33:16I just think overall, like this offense was great in 2023.
33:19I just feel like he's better than he was then.
33:22Like the numbers were incredible then, but I think he is doing more lifting in why the offense feels great than it
33:28was that again, it's some of the pushing the ball down the field, the off schedule stuff, whatever, like it, he will, it'll tail off.
33:35I'm sure when they play a better competition, they won't average 0.6 EPA per drop back or whatever it is that they're averaging now.
33:41But Brock Purdy is playing at an MVP level.
33:43And if they continue to do this and he just has this sort of season all the way through, he would be
33:49a worthwhile MVP in a way that I think would have been a little bit harder to argue with the quality of
33:55player he was three years ago, which is understandable.
33:58It was his second year in the NFL was his second year as a starter.
34:02Yeah. Most guys are not going to win MVP in their second.
34:05It's happened, you know, it's happened more recently than, you know, history would suggest, but most of those guys are not going to do that.
34:12And that's okay. What do you think all of this means against the Broncos?
34:16Because the way, when I will go back and watch that Cardinals game, and I even think about the way the Niners
34:22attack the Rams in week one, attacking those Broncos linebackers in space is the way that you probably should build your passing approach.
34:28And I'm not sure there's a team better equipped to play that way right now than the San Francisco 49ers.
34:33I think that they're going to kind of be able to do what they want on offense for a number of different reasons.
34:40Like I think the Broncos, we always think of the Broncos as a man coverage team and they are.
34:45Their zone coverage stuff is good, but they are still a team that wants to be able to man coverage on you.
34:51Sertan's going to follow your best guy. McMillan's going to be able to run across the slot and cover you and stuff like that.
34:57You can't do that against the Niners generally, especially not with these linebackers.
35:01I think Justin Strenant has been a little bit better than previous seasons in coverage.
35:05Still a guy that against somebody like a George Kittle, like a CMC, going to be very gettable.
35:10And so I fear the Broncos are not going to be able to do as much of the stuff that they want.
35:16The other thing that we talked about, you know, you talked about the Niners being able to stay out of those third and seven situations in general.
35:23Like they just are having an ability to kind of run the ball and stay on pace and stuff like that.
35:29Broncos have not been a very good run defense team for a lot of this season, actually.
35:33Part of that is just, you know, some of the teams they've played.
35:37Some of it is some of the, you know, losing guys like John Franklin Myers and stuff like that.
35:42I do think against the Niners, the way that they want to run the ball, which is we are going to create
35:48leverage and double teams on the outside. That's what you should do against the Broncos who don't have very big edge players.
35:54And so I think their ability to do that is going to be really good.
35:58So this feels like a game where the Broncos defense is really good.
36:01They've got some guys who can make plays. The Niners feel like the exact offense to get them out of their rhythm
36:07and play the game that they want in a way that the Rams were not quite as equipped to do, obviously, as
36:13we saw towards the end of that game. Yeah, I just think the Ram, the Niners right now are more complete offense
36:19when the Rams can play the game on their terms.
36:22They're still incredibly dangerous. But like we said, I just think their Niners are more well-rounded now because of all the different ways they can attack you.
36:29The only the last thing I wanted to ask, what's our situation with Mike Evans?
36:33Is Mike Evans, do we think Mike Evans is playing?
36:36I think we think Mike Evans is playing. Yes.
36:39Okay. All right. That's good because I'm looking at the injury report here and he's the offensive lead, which is what we're sitting here talking about.
36:46He's really the only guy that we're talking and that we're thinking about.
36:49And then Trent Williams is good. Trent Williams is good.
36:52Okay. All right. Well, that's good news after the way the last weekend.
36:55All right. Let's take our first quick break and then come back and hit one thing from three more of these week four games.
37:02Start with the Jaguars at the Bengals. This one's on me.
37:05I'm watching the Bengals offense against the Jags defense.
37:07That's the thing I'm most interested in this in this game.
37:10The Bengals offense so far, we alluded to it a little bit earlier on the show, but hasn't been the smoothest operation
37:16with this transition to the under center world so far this year for the Bengals offense right now.
37:21They are if you're looking at just the numbers, they're bottom five and under center rate at 30 percent, but that's almost
37:27double what they were last year that the fact that they're down near the bottom of the league is in part a
37:33product of the fact that league wide, we've had a seven percentage point jump in under center usage over the first three
37:39weeks compared to what last year looked like out of those looks so far.
37:43The run game has been solid. They've been more efficient running the ball out of under from under center than they have
37:49been out of the gun, but the passing game just hasn't been very good.
37:53They're 31st in passing success rate from under center so far this year.
37:56Only the Eagles have been worse and I get why they wanted to try to do this.
38:01I understood every bit of the rationale, the motivation.
38:03We want to be able to be a little bit more explosive.
38:06We want to be able to run the ball on our terms.
38:10I do think in the long run that second part is worth hanging on to over the course of the year, but
38:16the under center play action passing part of this so far, I think the benefits you're trying to find don't outweigh the drawbacks.
38:22Like when I watched them do this stuff, Joe Burrow just doesn't feel like the best version of himself when he's trying to do these things.
38:29And I think that you can make an argument, which we can talk about.
38:33They wanted to do this because they want to be more explosive.
38:36The two explosives they hit in the Steelers game, one was just a go ball to T Higgins.
38:41And then the second was a back shoulder ball to Jamar.
38:44I'm like, I think it was fourth down. It was fourth and two.
38:47They had a bat. It was against cover three.
38:50It's one-on-one to back shoulder ball. That ball doesn't get thrown with that timing.
38:53If Joe Burrow is turning his back to the defense.
38:56And so I think it's a combination of him being able to play with that sort of timing.
39:01You're getting more guys out and routes out of this, the gun stuff compared to what you're trying to do with two
39:07and three man concepts from under center. And so even if I get what they were trying to do, it's been rocky enough.
39:13And I think you feel the difference enough that maybe straying away from this as much as you can while maintaining the run game benefits.
39:20If you can do that, I think might be worthwhile for the Bengals.
39:24This was kind of what I feared for them.
39:26And it's funny because for years I had said, man, they need to get more under center.
39:31They need to be able to run the ball on their terms.
39:34They need to be able to do all this stuff because in my mind, in a perfect world, if we're kind of
39:40removing the exact players from the equation, I do think that's the best way to run an offense where you can get under center.
39:46You can get into different personnel packages and have a little bit of an answer for everything.
39:51It's a little bit of what we're talking about with the 49ers just now.
39:55And the Chiefs. And the Chiefs. Yes, exactly. I think we have come to a point with Joe Burrow where it's very
40:01obvious he's good at certain things and he's just not good or comfortable at other things, which is the getting under center,
40:07throwing over the middle of the field with his back turned.
40:10Like when they do the play action under center stuff, it's either immediately throw the shot, the alert, whatever it is, or check down to the flat.
40:17He's not, they're not calling or throwing any of the over the middle of the field stuff because I just don't know
40:23that he is that comfortable with it. And so I do kind of he or Zach Taylor, whoever, they should almost accept
40:29their fate as like being the mid 2010s Pittsburgh Steelers where it's Ben Roethlisberger is going to be in gun.
40:34He's going to have Antonio Brown and whatever other secondary random third round receiver is playing really well for them at a given time.
40:41And they're just going to kind of spread and shred that way and be as good as they can be in that realm.
40:47And I do think that that probably limits you from being the best offense in the NFL, but it pretty reliably gets
40:53them to top eight, which for them I think is probably enough.
40:56Yeah. I mean, they are most teams in the NFL do have to try to manufacture explosive plays living in the environment that we do now, right?
41:04If you're going to have play against all these teams that play a bunch of shell and try to take those explosives
41:10away, you do have to manufacture them. The Bengals don't really have to manufacture those plays.
41:14They, they weren't an explosive passing offense. If you look at just the overall numbers in previous years, but we were talking
41:20about this a little bit before we started recording there's they throw the ball so much that even if the explosive play
41:26rate isn't similar to a team like, like Seattle last year, Seattle's explosive pass rate last year was extremely high.
41:31They didn't throw the ball very often. And so if you actually stack up the number of explosive plays over the course
41:37of the season, I still think the Bengals are probably going to get enough of them over any given game, even playing
41:43the way they do, you're going to have enough one-on-one opportunities down the field to those guys that you can hit three,
41:49four explosive plays over the course of a game.
41:52When you combine those haymaker shots with how efficient the passing game can be because of the quarterback and how they're playing.
41:57I think that's an okay formula. Like, I think ultimately that's an okay place to land, even if it wasn't the vision for the offense coming in.
42:05Yeah. I do wonder now it's funny. Cause again, I said like, they need to commit to it.
42:10They need to commit to it. I, and maybe it can still get better over the course of the year, but I
42:16just think with me, because we've seen them kind of dabble in this so many times before, and it's just never looked
42:22like the best way for the offense to function kind of just feels like, all right, let's just screw it.
42:27Let's just go back to the way we play.
42:29Let's chuck it. I mean, we're talking about the last game where they're just throwing it up the, the ball where Jamar Chase catches it over Derek Stingley.
42:37He's not open. He's never open. And it doesn't matter because you can just kind of do that.
42:42And so I think you're right that like them really crafting the offense to be as efficient as possible, remain ahead of the sticks, let Burrow see stuff.
42:50And then just three times a game, like screw it.
42:52That guy's going to make a play. It's, you would want better options than that.
42:56You would want better answers, but that's still a plenty fine way to go about it.
43:01Looking at the Jags defense part of this game, it's been a kind of a strange season.
43:05And when you look at like the efficiency numbers situationally for the Jags, they're actually bottom 10 and past defense success rate so far this year.
43:12But there are two things that have really lifted them on that side.
43:16They have four interceptions through three games. So again, they're getting turnovers.
43:19And the other thing is they lead the league in EPA per drop back on third down.
43:24And a lot of that is driven by how they're playing on third down.
43:27So they're playing man coverage at the second highest rate in the NFL.
43:31The Jaguars are on third down. Only the Rams have a higher man coverage rate on third down.
43:36So teams are eight of 20 throwing the ball against the Jags on third down so far this year.
43:41They're three of 11 when the Jags play man coverage.
43:44And they're only blitzing on like a third of those third down plays.
43:47So the man rate is the second highest in the league, but the blitz rate is like closer to average, a little bit below average.
43:54And what's really stood out is the way they're playing man coverage and just how they're passing things off.
43:59They know where their help is. That to me is what's felt the most different about this team this year is that
44:05what really stood out last year is on third down, their cover zero, their blitz type of stuff was really impressive.
44:11And then they felt like a really good zone coverage team.
44:14How buttoned up they've been in man has been really, really notable.
44:17And so I, that it stuck out from the first time I watched them against the Browns, like some of the things
44:23they were doing, passing this stuff off, and they've just continued to do it over their first three games.
44:28And I'm glad you bring up the communication because that is like the secret sauce actually to a lot of the best
44:34man coverage teams is how they pass stuff off.
44:37And, you know, they pass stuff off to the rat or to the robber or to the single high safety, depending on
44:43just how they end up wanting to play and let that corner fall off and replace them.
44:47When you look at previous versions of the Patriots, when they were at their best at man coverage stuff, that's, that has
44:53been the, that's what it reminds me of. Yes.
44:56Because the Patriots didn't blitz a ton when they played man.
44:59No, they did a lot of this stuff where it's a rat, it's a robber.
45:03We know exactly how to pass stuff, like where those zone coverage defenders are in the middle and how to use them to our advantage.
45:09That's the exact team I was thinking about when I was watching them play with those Patriots teams.
45:14And to me, the other recent example, the best version of the lions defense with Aaron Glenn, those guys were so, so
45:20good at passing off bunches and just making sure that they're communicating who's taking who the safety's driving down on stuff.
45:26And that's like, you do need corners who can just run with people and play man-to-man coverage.
45:30And the Jags guys are good enough at that, but it really is the communication in the defense guys, trusting that stuff is going to get picked up.
45:38Cause that's the other thing too. It's communicating is one thing.
45:41There's a clear trust in the defense that if I let this go, somebody is going to get it.
45:46And you can see in some other defenses, whether it's new systems, teams that are just not as good, they struggle.
45:52You end up with two guys in the same spot a lot of times because they're not confident that whatever they're passing
45:58off is going to go to the next guy.
46:00You just don't see as much of that with the Jags defense.
46:04And I think an important personnel tweak that we've seen from them as they've really leaned into some of this stuff, they
46:10were trying to figure out the cornerback rotation early in the season.
46:13Remember Travis Hunter didn't get a ton of snaps against the Broncos.
46:16And, but last week it felt like they had decided that Monteric Brown is going to kind of be the odd man out.
46:22He still plays, right? They still have a deep defensive back rotation, but right now they're two top outside corners or Travis Hunter and Jerry and Jones.
46:30And I think that makes sense. If you want to be doing a little bit more of this stuff, I agree.
46:35Cause like Monteric Brown is such a funny player.
46:38Like last year, he was awesome. Like, like for given a guy who would like, you know, late round pick had not played a ton in his career.
46:45He was awesome. Justifiably got paid justifiably justify. He earned that contract, but it's also one of those things where those guys
46:51who are not super talented, they are late round picks are often winning in particular ways.
46:56And with the Jags last year, like you were talking about, it's a lot of zone coverage.
47:00It's a lot of being able to communicate and pass stuff off.
47:03It's a lot of playing with zone eyes. He's really good at that.
47:07He is not quite as athletic and like smooth in the hips as some of these other guys to play as much one-on-one coverage, especially on the outside.
47:15So it makes more sense that you have Jerry and Jones, who I think is a little bit better than that.
47:20And then the corner that you spent the number to overall pick on who has truly special movement skills, like the way
47:26that he can just whip his head around and close on stuff is, is phenomenal.
47:30And so I do wonder too, like, this is the other reason I want them to just play more of Travis Hunter
47:36at corner for God's sakes and just let him be a defender.
47:39If so much of your defense is going to be about communication and being in the right spots and passing stuff off,
47:45give him the reps to do that. And so we don't have to worry about this by the time we get to January.
47:52Bring it all back around why I think the man coverage stuff is worth pointing out.
47:56So far this season, teams have played man 17.7% of the time against the Bengals, which is like a bottom six rate.
48:02The Bengals have a 65% success rate against man coverage.
48:05They're averaging 10.7 yards per play. So something's got to give something's got to give in this one.
48:10And I'm curious what it is. All right, let's get to our next one here.
48:14Rams at Eagles. This one's all you, buddy. What do you got for me?
48:17Yeah, we're going to stick on another offense where, you know, they're trying to go through that similar formation of we're trying to be more under center.
48:25We're trying to run the ball a little bit different, do all this play action stuff.
48:29I think they make for a funny matchup against this Rams defense where I think in theory, what you would want to
48:35do from a passing game perspective against this Rams defense is to throw over the middle, attack these linebackers, all that stuff.
48:41Eagles have not yet proven to me that they're willing to do that.
48:45They did it a little bit more in the Titans game.
48:47I think last week they were completely unwilling to do that.
48:50And so if we're still going to live in that world with the passing game, okay, then the run game needs to be something.
48:57And we saw some signs of life last week from them, especially in the first half where the wide zone stuff they
49:03wanted to do, some of the weak zone stuff they wanted to do, they were able to get it to pop because
49:09they were able to get movement on some of the edge players.
49:12I think against the Rams, that's harder to do.
49:15I do think that these guys are, you know, whether it's Josiah Stewart, Byron Young, I know they don't have Miles Garrett,
49:21but all these other depth pieces that they have are good guys who can hold up on the edge, give linebackers, give
49:27the nickel, give the safety's time to come up and fit and not give you those explosives.
49:31And so I think they can get the Eagles into enough third and fives, third and sixes, third and sevens, where it becomes a passing down.
49:38And I just do not trust this Eagles passing offense right now to handle a Rams passing defense that has been really good.
49:44Obviously week one was disgusting, but like Trent McDuffie has been awesome and can run with people in man to man.
49:50They've been playing more man to man. Quentin Lake has looked way better than he looked in week one.
49:55I know that they're going to be without Watson this week, but their depth corners, I actually think are like pretty, pretty
50:01good, like better than a lot of other teams.
50:04And so this to me just feels like all of this stuff the Eagles want to be or have struggled to, to morph into.
50:10It's a bad matchup, I think against this Rams defense.
50:13What's going to be funny because last year, I remember AJ Brown just bullied those smaller corners on the Rams.
50:18And while Emmanuel Forbes is probably going to have to play in this game on the outside again, right?
50:23But AJ Brown isn't here and Devante Smith is a little bit banged up, correct?
50:27He is. He, I don't think he practiced today as a practice Wednesday, no practice report yet for, as we record this on Thursday, but no practice Wednesday.
50:35It's you look at it size wise and I could make a joke about how that's actually a fair fight between Devante Smith and Emmanuel Forbes.
50:42But then you look at Devante Smith who also just regularly dunks on people.
50:46He shouldn't be able to outside the numbers. And I'm not, I'm not ready to make that joke.
50:51Like there's absolutely still a chance that if they want to play that way against Emmanuel Forbes, even Devante Smith at that size can still do it.
50:58There we go, Zach Berman, no sign of Devante Smith yet at practice.
51:02And today is Thursday? Yes. Okay. And so, but even if it's tough, that's what the passing game has been so far.
51:08It's been all Devante. And if it's going to be even a limited Devante Smith, the way Trent McDuffie is playing right
51:14now and how willing they're letting him just run and match with people, play them in the slot if he's got to,
51:20they did that a lot with Jalen Waddle last week and just had McDuffie follow.
51:24Like they would do that, I imagine, against Devante Smith.
51:26And, you know, I think people too would make the thing of like, well, the Eagles dunked all over Trent McDuffie's Chiefs in the Superbowl.
51:33And it's like, well, yeah, that was AJ Brown.
51:36That was not on, that was not mostly Devante Smith.
51:38And so I do think again, this for a lot of different reasons is a very good matchup for Rams defense.
51:44Get to our last one here. Cowboys at Texans.
51:46We're going to spend some time with the Cowboys offense against the Texans defense, but obviously some huge news last night, Joey Porter Jr.
51:53headed to Dallas for a 2028 second round pick.
51:55And then some other, it wasn't like a six round pick next year.
51:59I'm not really worried about that one, which I think was also that pick had been involved in the Cowboys trade for George Pickens.
52:05So I always love when it reminds me of like the Bears bills trades over the last five years, where all the
52:11same picks got shipped back and forth five times.
52:14We're getting to that point with the Cowboys and the Steelers, your initial thoughts about how Joey Porter Jr.
52:19fits into this defense and what it potentially means for Dallas.
52:22I mean, my first thought actually was, it didn't take as much to get him as I thought it was going to.
52:28And maybe that's just because we're now at the point where, you know, if you trade for him in July, it's like,
52:34well, he's going to get a full off season with our team, all this stuff.
52:38He's going to be able to learn the defense very quickly, all that stuff.
52:42And so there's a little bit more incentive to like, I think teams would be willing to ask for more.
52:47I think now that we're a spot with the Steelers where we're a few weeks into the season, the Cowboys are not
52:53necessarily going to get the best from him immediately.
52:55The price came down a little bit and I thought it was actually a fair price for him.
53:00I worry a little bit about if he's going to ask for the same contract as like Christian Gonzalez.
53:05I don't know if he's necessarily worth that, but he's a much better corner than they've had.
53:10And I do think that having a guy who can play a little bit of one-on-one on the boundary, you know, or
53:16on the sideline, they're not a huge man cover team, but the quarter side of all the stuff that they're doing becomes man coverage.
53:23It's all of what they were doing. It's exactly what they did with Quenyon Mitchell in Philadelphia.
53:27It's the same stuff. And it's a lot of, even what like Vic Fangio had been doing way back in the day
53:33with like Prince of Mookamera, just have like a guy who like when it becomes quarters, he's just playing a lot of
53:39man coverage or what becomes match man coverage. And I do think that Porter is going to be good at that.
53:45And so it was funny. Someone actually asked me earlier, I think it was yesterday before the trade.
53:50They were like, if you could trade for any defender for you, not any defender, but it was like Jordan Brooks or Joey Porter Jr.
53:56And I'm like, in my mind, I, you know, I don't know if the dolphins were going to move off of Brooks,
54:02but in my mind, Brooks solves more problems. I do still think Porter does a lot for this defensive for the secondary.
54:08Yeah. I think that Brooks solves arguably a worse problem in the sense that I think linebacker is still the area of this defense.
54:15I feel the, feel the most scared of, but I, I think you can make an argument that by bringing in Joey
54:21Porter, you can solve more problems because I think that it allows you to patch maybe two holes at once.
54:26One, it allows you to just change the way you can tilt coverage potentially.
54:30And that gets the most out of more of your DBs and more of your secondary.
54:34But also I'm just curious what sort of shuffling this could potentially mean.
54:38If you have Joey Porter Jr. outside in one spot, and I know they're not healthy right now, but just let's just
54:44play this out for when guys get back and you want to move maybe Kobe Durant inside, or you want to move to Ron bland inside.
54:51And that potentially can bring Caleb downs back and have him play safety.
54:54Even now, even when Durant is hurt, if you want to put bland inside, you want to put Ravel outside, you want
55:00to put Kobe Durant back at safety while Jalen Thompson's hurt.
55:03I honestly think this allows you to potentially get better at multiple positions.
55:07And when you look at how banged up the Cowboys defense and secondary is right now, the chance to get better and
55:13upgrade at multiple positions is absolutely huge. Given the current state of this thing.
55:17I actually think that's a good argument because to me, the reason I would want to fix, or I would have preferred
55:23Jordan Brooks is he fixes the spine of the defense and the spine of this defense sucks right now.
55:28But if you are moving Caleb downs to safety where I think he's a better and like more natural player at safety,
55:34I think he's been fine at the nickel and he's done some decent stuff there.
55:38But in my mind, I think we've seen a lot of teams now going to these more, you know, the six foot,
55:44200 pound plus nickel bodies and trying to be like a guy who can defend the run a little bit and we
55:50can do all this stuff with him and on and yada yada yada.
55:53I don't think you really get the full value out of that sort of player unless you are using them aggressively unless
55:59you're firing them like the Steelers with Jalen Ramsey, the Ravens with Kyle Hamilton, the Chargers with Derwin James, unless you're like weaponizing them.
56:06I just don't think you get as much value out of that.
56:09So why not have downs back at what is a more natural position for him?
56:13And plus to when downs and Thompson are the two safeties, I think you can ask them to do more rather than
56:19Thompson and whoever else that just feels you feel a little bit more static or just hoping the other guy doesn't make you wrong.
56:25Basically, by the way, I agree with everything you're saying.
56:28And by the way, my like, oh, this will fix multiple problems.
56:31And this is why I will work. And this is why I was worth doing.
56:35This is just insane. Cope for me. I just want to call that out in the moment.
56:40Like I'm having to believe in this because I've been given no other choice.
56:44It will be better. It's a matter of like, are they are they actually getting this to average or are they getting
56:50it to 22nd because it was going to be 27th?
56:53I don't think you understand, Derek, that this is going to solve everything about what's going wrong with the defense.
56:58This is the this is the magic bullet. This is the only thing they needed.
57:02Let's actually talk about the part of this game that we wanted to focus on.
57:06And that's the Cowboys offense against the Texans defense.
57:09The number one thing you are watching with that matchup in this game is what?
57:13I want to start by saying that Dave was 100 percent correct, that we were maybe a tad overreactive to the Texans
57:19defense and just what it was going to mean for their team.
57:22Like I watched back the Colts game. They were way better than it felt in real time.
57:26And we didn't think they were bad, obviously, but I like they really did feel more dominant for a lot of that game that I gave credit for.
57:34And I think there are a couple of interesting matchup things for this game.
57:38One, the Cowboys offensive line and run game has been pretty good.
57:41And I think T.J. Bass is actually even in this last game was better than I would have thought based on even
57:47his first couple of weeks of play. But there are a couple of plays where the tackles just don't got it.
57:53And really a lot, even some of their tight ends, especially when they're in 11 personnel and it's Jake Ferguson, just don't have it against these edges.
58:00They're going to make you wrong in the run game.
58:03Like there was even a play early on in the second quarter against the Ravens where they have the tight end and
58:09the running back to the same side. It's like a third and short.
58:12They're trying to run inside zone. Mike Green is so fast across the tight ends face.
58:17They just lose in the plays over. You know who's going to do that to you?
58:21Daniil Hunter and Will Anderson, like consistently every time.
58:23And so I do worry about their ability to win in some of those, I think, short yardage areas.
58:28The other thing to me, and I want to talk about this a little bit.
58:33The Cowboys offense has obviously been really, really good this season.
58:36I think that what they're trying to do in the passing game is really good.
58:40The run game has come along and it's had its moments.
58:43I feel like Dak is a little bit stiffer and less precise as a passer than he has been in years past.
58:49And I do think against the Texans defense like this, that that not being as perfect and on your P's and Q's
58:55is going to be a little bit of an issue.
58:57What, where have you seen that most? Like what types of throws make you say that?
59:02I just think some of the accuracy sometimes outside of the numbers has been a little bit, I think in general, when
59:08he's throwing the 10 to 20 yard area, he's throwing high a lot.
59:11And he's always kind of been that way where he's a little bit willing to just like let guys go up and get it.
59:18But I feel like it's been a little bit more pronounced this year.
59:21Maybe that's like all in my head and I'm like making it up.
59:25But I just felt like, especially in that Ravens game, he's throwing a little bit higher, really making guys go up for it.
59:31There was even an outbreaker against CD or to CD lamb against the Ravens where he's trying to throw it to the right side.
59:37And he leaves it so high instead of like really throwing it on a line to the sideline and letting your player
59:43come back and run to it, that it kind of disrupts CD's timing.
59:47And he like goes up for it in a weird way and isn't able to bring it down.
59:52And so they're obviously still really, really good. I think that they're going to give the Texans some troubles in this game
59:58and they can be explosive down the field still.
60:00I just feel like there are one or two throws a game where I'm like, I feel like at his best, Dak Prescott makes that throw more consistently.
60:08And those intermediate throws and that's the area when I watched the Texas, down to down, they were excellent.
60:13It just there was the fact that the Colts were able to access that area of the field between the second and
60:19third level over the middle of the field four or five times over the course of that game.
60:24You just don't typically see that. And a couple of those plays, Kalen Bullock literally slips, which is the reason that that happened.
60:30I don't expect it to happen over and over and over again, but it's just an area we don't typically see teams able to access against the Texans.
60:37And so I wonder, can the Cowboys do that?
60:40Because, and the other part, going back and watching the Cowboys game specifically from last week, the Cowboys are able to do
60:46a lot of stuff on like deep hook routes, deep comebacks, where the physicality of those receivers, you can just pin it on them.
60:52CD and Pickens can play that way against the Texans.
60:55Those plays would feel like non-starters to me. Like, I think that you have to be attacking the area between the linebackers
61:01and the safeties, or you have to be attacking them over the top.
61:05Like some of the things the Cowboys can typically lean on in those like underneath options to their guys, because their matchup
61:11advantages, they are not really matchup advantages in this game.
61:13And so that's like the one thing they were able to do against Baltimore that I just don't know if they're going
61:19to be able to do in this one. I totally agree with that.
61:23Like if, if you could hit, you know, five or six of those plays on an average defense, I think you only
61:29hit two of them against the Texans where you're just like trying to pit it on the guy and make that work that way.
61:35The other thing that, and this goes back to what you're talking about.
61:39I, to me, I feel like the safeties are not driving on stuff as fast as they have previously in this defense.
61:45They're giving up a lot of air. That's what feels the most different about this.
61:49At like Reed Blankenship is not as good as it Bullock, I think has not been great at it.
61:54Because honestly, what's funny when you watch this defense in cover three single high, they are still phenomenal.
61:59They are still insane when they are in cover three, which that's their bread and butter.
62:03When they have been in some of these quarters and other two high stuff, I think you're seeing the safeties not drive on stuff.
62:10And why I think that's interesting with the Cowboys specifically, they play a lot of two by two, like two by two,
62:1611 personnel guns, spread it out a little bit.
62:18That's where you can start to try to get those routes where we're running up the seam or we're running a dig
62:24that's going to, you know, the safety is going to have to go drive on.
62:28I do wonder how many of those throws, those types of intermediate throws the Cowboys can make.
62:33Cause like you said, the deep stop route on the numbers where Stingley or Lasseter can drive on it.
62:38I don't know, man, that, that doesn't seem like you're going to complete many of those, but if you're running into the
62:44middle, to the hashes and the safety's got to come down those throws, I do think that you can get some more of against this team.
62:51That's exactly it. And I was talking to somebody who covers the Texans and talks about and thinks about this team all the time.
62:57They literally talk about that area in the middle of the field, they called the kill zone.
63:02That's what the Texas defense calls that. And like, it has not been quite as deadly this year as it has been in years past.
63:09Like when we were talking about the Texans defense, that was it.
63:12It wasn't that the Texans defense is bad or disappointing.
63:15It was that there's one specific element of that game that just felt a little bit different than it usually does when you watch the Texans defense.
63:22And that might be a one week aberration, but you notice that difference.
63:26And I think it's for exactly what you're saying.
63:28Those safeties think about all of the kill shots that Kalen Bullock has dished out over the years, coming down and driving on some of that stuff.
63:35And it just felt a little bit different last week.
63:38That was it. It really did. And you know, again, what's funny too, like, I feel like Reed Blankenship is not, like
63:44I said, driving on some of that stuff. He's not seeing it as well, but when they go to some of the
63:50cover three stuff and he's just rolling down his sky support, he's backside run support, all that stuff.
63:55He's awesome. Like when you get him moving already by design forward, he's really good for them.
63:59Them having him sit, I think, flat footed and drive on stuff.
64:03He's just, it's just not, not yet as good as they want.
64:06I think I do still trust this coaching staff will get there eventually, but that area of the field, like you're saying
64:12it's more open than it usually has been for this defense.
64:15We'll see. It might not be this week. That might be a week.
64:18It might be a one week thing. You, you alluded to this.
64:22I am worried about the Terrence Steele versus Will Anderson part of this game.
64:25Dude, I am concerned. Watching, watching Will Anderson against the Colts.
64:28He is, there are, there are less than a handful of players like this in the league at a given time where,
64:34you know, he is a great player and you turn on the film and he does something where you're like, what the was that?
64:41He is an unbelievable player. Like the downs that he can win on, like there was, the Colts had a play where
64:47they had a tight end to his side on the line of scrimmage and they run first and 10 honor center play action.
64:53And he takes the tackle head on. And so the, the tight end is like, well, I don't need to chip him because he's not going outside.
65:00And so as soon as the tight end drops and it's like, I can get into the flat, Anderson hits the gas
65:06and he immediately strips sacks Daniel Jones. How many guys in the NFL can do that?
65:11Two, three? Like he is just, he's so absurd.
65:13He's an absurd player. I really do believe he might be the best player in the NFL.
65:18Like right now, like, you know, miles Garrett's hurt.
65:20And I think there's some miles Garrett. I was, I was going to say the exact same thing.
65:25I think right now he is pretty clearly the best defensive player in the league, like what he can do against the run.
65:31And then he had a, just like, it was just a quarterback hit at one point in the first half.
65:37I paused it at the top of his, like the top of his rush, the flexibility that we're seeing from him.
65:42Now that was one of the things people were worried about coming out.
65:46It's like, Oh, is he a little bit stiff?
65:48Is that ultimately going to affect his ceiling as a pass rusher?
65:52There is no ceiling. Like he is right now.
65:54He is playing at a level where with miles Garrett hurt.
65:57I don't even think it's a conversation about who the best defensive player in the league is.
66:02He's been ridiculous. Yeah. He, and like the, obviously I test, like I said, insane.
66:06And I had looked this up yesterday. He leads, this is all per next gen.
66:10He leads the NFL, uh, in quick pressures among non Vikings players.
66:13The Vikings are kind of cheesing with the way that they play.
66:16I had to, I had to include that. I think Cashman and, and, uh, and Dallas Turner were higher, but they're cheesing
66:22a little bit, but in terms of everybody else, he leads the league in quick pressures.
66:27He has, uh, 15 stops, which is like tackles that are negative EPA for the offense, which leads all defensive linemen.
66:32And in terms of pass rush, he's the only player in the NFL who has at least three sacks and his average
66:38time to sack is under four seconds. He gets there immediately and often, and he's the best run defender in the league.
66:44He's an unbelievable player. Absurd player. All right, let's take our next quick break and then package and come back and chat a little sicko street.
66:51We're a little bit different this week. I wanted to start sicko street with the biggest sicko in the NFL world, uh, that we found out about yesterday.
66:59We need to talk about Mike Tomlin's Minecraft situation.
67:01This is sicko street. He literally built sicko street in Minecraft over a 12 year period.
67:06He built sicko city. He put, yeah, he built the sicko metropolis is what he did.
67:10You've played Minecraft before. So I just want your, I have never played.
67:13And so this is all new to me, but I wanted to talk about it because I was just blown away by the entire thing yesterday.
67:20Every new thing I learned about Minecraft, every new detail I learned about what this must have taken blew my mind even more as somebody who has played.
67:28I just want you to walk me through what your impressions were of Mike Tomlin showing everybody this last night.
67:33I mean, and first of all, in terms of the work, this is hundreds, if not thousands of hours of, of sitting
67:39there and doing this and because it's not just, it's not just the finished product that takes a lot of time of
67:45like put getting all the right blocks, you know, all that stuff, making sure you're putting it down.
67:50You could clearly see that he was, there was a lot of trial and error.
67:54He's talking about this with his son planning. Yes.
67:57He was like, Oh, the lighting. And I had to figure this out.
68:00And then I had to learn to use this brick and all this, like that stuff takes trial and error and scrapping
68:06stuff that you did and going back and redoing it again.
68:09Him and his son were joking about like the water situation and figuring out how the stuff mechanically worked in the game.
68:15Because honestly, games like Minecraft and similar to it, where it's a building and stuff like that, the water mechanic is always
68:21just like how it flows and works is always like you have to do some trial and error.
68:26And so I just thought it was fascinating that it took that many hours.
68:30And I really, I think in a lot of ways, there is nothing in common with me and Mike Tomlin, like just
68:36the, how stoic he was as a football coach, like all of this stuff.
68:40But him being like, I don't watch a whole lot of TV.
68:43I love to play video games and just escape and get into this.
68:46And I was like, yes, that's exactly like what it is for somebody like me where I'm like, it's just, it's, you
68:52know, I think when we think of doing things with your hands, it's like building, it's workshopping, it's, you know, woodworking, all that stuff.
68:59But playing video games, like is you are doing something with your hands and making something or progressing your mind at doing something at a skill.
69:06And I think that Mike Tomlin, like taking whatever he gets out of that from football and like reapplying it to something that he said was therapeutic.
69:13I'm like, that's beautiful. I love that. Watching again, just the tone of the game, the music, what it looks like, the
69:19him talking about the lighting in the ballroom of the boutique hotel he made.
69:23If your brain works a certain way, I can completely understand how that would be incredibly soothing and calming and therapeutic at the end of a day.
69:30And when it comes to having like a weird hobby, I've spent so many hours thinking about watches and building a watch collection, like so many hours.
69:38There is no way I could sit in judgment of Mike Tomlin.
69:41I just found it a shocking piece of information in part because we've known this man and have heard from him and about him.
69:47And we think we kind of have an idea of who he is for like 20 years.
69:52And this just completely reframes like what we think we know about him.
69:55It's fascinating. I just could not imagine that this person that we've spent all of this time with can have this deep
70:01of a hobby and clearly just be capable of something that even people that are Minecraft people that do this all the time just find a staggering achievement.
70:09I was blown away by the entire thing. It's crazy.
70:12It really is a funny like you just don't know these guys as much as you think.
70:16And I do think the other part of it that to me was beautiful was that he it didn't seem like had
70:22ever really played many video games before or like sought this out himself or whatever.
70:26It was something that he found his kids really enjoyed.
70:29And he was like, I'm going to take the time to like watch them and all this stuff.
70:34And he realized like, oh, this is kind of interesting to me.
70:37And he took an interest in it with them.
70:40And I think that being able to do that and spend that kind of time while you have all the rigors of
70:46being an NFL head coach, that to me, I thought was like, it was really meaningful.
70:50And I thought that it was really beautiful that he was able to like find some avenue to really connect and have that sort of time.
70:57I thought that that was awesome. It's unlike any moment I can remember as somebody who pays attention to the league.
71:03The fact that collectively, like everyone who cares or thinks about the NFL was kind of on the internet yesterday watching Mike
71:09Tomlin show show this off and having this collective just mind blowing experience was very cool.
71:13I've truly never experienced anything like it as somebody who thinks and talks and focuses on the league pretty much every single hour of every single day.
71:20So it was amazing. Let's get to a more traditional sicko street place.
71:24Brian Flores is playing against the Dolphins this week.
71:26That's juicy enough on its own. The fact that this is his first game as a defensive coordinator going back and playing
71:32against Miami, considering how that thing ended. Now you're adding into it.
71:35The Vikings defense has looked like the scariest defense in football for the first three weeks.
71:40And the Dolphins, in a way that's not even their fault, don't really have a functioning NFL team right now.
71:45There's a chance this gets extremely ugly. I'm very worried that this gets ugly because, you know, obviously what's funny is that
71:51this is coming off of a game where I think last week was as ugly as it could possibly look for like any quarterback.
71:58Like obviously the way that Baker Mayfield played in that offense was terrible.
72:01I don't think that Miami is really any better equipped.
72:04Like their receiver talent is worse. And honestly, the passing offense is kind of to a point where when they get blitz
72:10or when they are kind of unsure of what they want to do, it's a lot of like, Hey man, we're just
72:16going to chuck it down the field. And I have kind of said that like the way to beat this defense is
72:22often to do that, but you do need the guys for it.
72:25And you need the receivers who can go and win those balls.
72:28You need a quarterback who I think sees it really well and really quickly.
72:32And I think Malik Willis has actually like not been terrible given obviously the horrible circumstance he's been put in, but I
72:38just don't think of him as that kind of this does feel like, especially to given some of the offensive line stuff
72:44that this feels like a game that could really get away from Miami very quickly.
72:48I mean, I think the line is like 10 and a half, which it should be.
72:52Yeah, it absolutely should be. And think about how much of a mismatch it has to be on one side of the
72:58ball to be a 10 and a half point line after watching the Vikings offense last week.
73:03Yeah, exactly. Just think about that. Because what is the line suggesting?
73:06The line is suggesting that the Vikings can win this game like 17 to three, which is like, I think probably a
73:12pretty reasonable way for this thing to end. Yeah, I did this one I think is set up to be pretty gross.
73:18Another one that's set up to be just as gross.
73:21The reeling Los Angeles Chargers are playing against the Seahawks, not just playing against the Seahawks, playing against the Seahawks coming off
73:27a loss with Julian Love coming back. So as ugly as Vikings Dolphins has a chance to be, I think this one might actually rival it.
73:34And this one feels uglier in the sense of like, like you said, we knew we knew the Dolphins were not supposed to be a good team.
73:41The Chargers thing is like train wreck hard to turn away from level where we thought that this was supposed to be a really good team.
73:48And now they are running into what is the hardest part of their schedule.
73:52And I think why this game in particular feels like it could be dangerous.
73:56The Seahawks, and you've always laid this out really well when we talk about them, their defense, it suffocates you and it
74:02bores you and it makes you do all the check down stuff, kind of throw over the middle of the field, take some of these stuff.
74:09They don't give you the deep, like really plays where you can go and make an explosive.
74:13The Chargers, I think a lot of their issue, especially in the passing games, get away with him.
74:18He starts pressing, he starts just chucking it down the field and pressing it into windows.
74:23He's not supposed to. Well, if you're now playing against the defense, that is the best that making you do that and getting that out of you.
74:30I worry how many negative plays we're going to get in this one.
74:33I just think it reminds me a little bit of just what we saw from Drake may in week one, and you're
74:39asking for potentially more of the same and in what has been already an ugly year for the Chargers.
74:45I worry it's going to get even uglier by the time this week is over.
74:49Pacific time zone practice reports coming in you guys.
74:51So just to get back to what we talked about a little earlier, Trent Williams practicing.
74:55Mike Williams sidefield. Mike Evans. Mike Evans. Okay. All right.
74:58All right. That's good to know. Brandon Cooks on the 53 man roster.
75:02So it won't matter. Well, last year, last week they were doing with Jordan Watkins and like, and whoever else was playing in that game, which was ridiculous.
75:09All right. We want it. We didn't do this last week.
75:12I wanted to trot out one this week because there is a game that this is the way I wanted to attack it.
75:18I have a little bit of a take therapy for you.
75:21And for anyone who missed this in the week one preview, whenever one of us has sort of, I don't know, an
75:27intrusive thought, something that we want to talk about in a welcoming, safe environment, we're going to spend a little bit of
75:33time doing some therapy about these takes. And mine today is about the Falcon Saints game.
75:38I think I believe in Michael Penix. On one game against the Packers?
75:41I think I believe. Already? Okay. I think I believe in Michael Penix.
75:45Let's, I'm not necessarily, I do think that he has, he has the arm talent that will let me believe in this,
75:51but I want to, I want to hear you talk through this.
75:54Why, why are we already in on Michael Penix after one game?
75:57He was operating so fast in that game. When you watch some of the anticipation, how quickly that ball was coming out, how cleanly he was seeing things.
76:05And you combine that with the arm talent. I just think it's an incredibly exciting package of traits.
76:10The one thing we've always talked about with Penix is two things.
76:13When he gets pushed off his spot, obviously he is a stiff player in the pocket.
76:17Like there's, there's no denying that that's going to continue to be the case that is ultimately going to limit his ceiling.
76:23But if that's it. And the, because the other thing was his ability to push the ball and attack the middle of
76:29the field, they threw the ball over the middle of the field in that game.
76:33If you're going to get under center and use some play action, and you're going to have tools that allow him to
76:39throw the ball to that area of the field consistently and efficiently, we're really running out of things other than injury that worry me about him.
76:46And I just think the way he played in that game on a short week, first start hadn't been practicing that much,
76:52even if the Packers were instantly imploding. I just thought how fast he looked in that game combined with just how talented he is as a thrower.
77:00I think I'm ready to believe in this and I'm full, like to an extent, right?
77:04And I'm fully willing to admit, and I said this during the game, he is number one on my list, maybe with
77:10Cam Ward, like slightly behind him of guys. I want to be good because it would be cool.
77:15Like, I think he is number one because of how talented he is as a thrower.
77:19And so I fully admit that I am prone to wanting this because I think if he's good, it would be really exciting.
77:25But I think I'm in a spot where in a safe space surrounded by friends, I am ready to tell you that I believe in Michael Penix.
77:33I do want it to be good because if we had a quarterback who was, I don't even want to put a
77:39number on it, but if he is an above average quarterback playing with Drake London, Bajon Robinson, Kyle Pitts, it's like, it's a pretty good offense, man.
77:46If he, if he can really be that consistently.
77:48Um, I do think that while he was really impressive, obviously coming off the short week has not played in this offense.
77:54I think that was really impressive for his part.
77:57I do wonder from a defensive perspective, like they don't know what the offense is going to look like with you either.
78:03And so I do wonder like what defenses are, how they're going to adjust.
78:06And so I do think that because he looked as good as he did, and I do believe in the offensive infrastructure.
78:12Like I said, that coming into the season, I was pretty high on, I think I had them like six or seven,
78:18uh, in the NFC in terms of supporting cast, the offensive line is, is what it is.
78:23But I do think that the play calling is good.
78:26You have one of the best running backs in the league.
78:29Drake London's really good pits, all this stuff. I do think that they can operate at a level that is not elite offense, but like pretty good.
78:36And I do still think that I think I want to see the middle of the field throwing more, more consistently, more
78:42against more defenses, but he obviously has the arm talent to do it.
78:46And I do think that he already in some ways has proven a little bit more willing to change and grow there
78:51than some of the other guys I typically have this issue with Jalen Hurts, Bo Nix, Joe Burrow, to an extent, like
78:57those are guys that like were four or five, six years into a lot of their careers, and they just have not moved off of that.
79:04You at least see Penix trying it a little bit more.
79:07And so I think I want to see that fully crystallize, but I do think that there is a path for him.
79:13I think I'm in a little bit more wait and see mode.
79:17I will say, and I said this actually coming off of last year, to me, it's pretty clear that he's like a NFL starting quarterback.
79:23To me, I'm, I'm wondering what the ceiling really is, whether it's the eighth best quarterback or the 15th or 16th.
79:29I think that's where I'm a little bit curious.
79:32To be clear, if we're having a serious conversation, I also am in wait and see mode, but I'm in a spot, right?
79:38I want to believe in this. You're cautiously optimistic.
79:40I want to believe in this. In a way that I'm more just like cautious.
79:44Yeah. Because with some of these guys, think about the conversation we had in the middle of the week, just about how
79:50the timeline that where guys come along, what you want to see from guys.
79:54There just aren't that many quarterbacks, period, who throw the ball like this.
79:58Like there just aren't. And so I want to see a guy with this level of arm talent.
80:02It explodes out of his hand. I want to see a guy like that find success because I just think it, the league is more fun.
80:10If a guy who can play the position this way ends up being good.
80:13And so I think that's just why I'm rooting for it.
80:16And the last note I have about this, just this quarterback matchup in general, I find so exciting going back and watching that game against the Raiders.
80:24We didn't say it in the Raiders defense section, the plays that the saints made in the passing game in that game
80:30for the most part, not play action. They hit a lot of like spit the ball to the flat off play action, take advantage of some conflicts completions.
80:37A lot of the pure drop back down the field completions that the saints had in that game only happened because of
80:43shucks arm talent and how fast that ball was coming out.
80:46Like he had to make a handful, five, six big boy throws on time in that game in order to take advantage of the Raiders defense.
80:53And so both of these guys, I think just play a style of quarterback that I find exciting to watch.
80:59And so the idea that coming into the season, maybe a Falcon saints, Tyler Shuck, Michael Penix matchup might not have seemed
81:05like the most exciting thing on paper. I am in a spot where this to me is like one of the coolest quarterback matchups of the entire week.
81:12So Shuck, I'm closer to getting there. Actually, I, he, he is, I think stylistically, I have like a couple of gripes with him.
81:19He still takes too many sacks. And I do think he has a weird combination of he takes too many sacks.
81:24And I think that he also checks the ball down a little bit too much, but the arm talent is undeniable with him.
81:31I think he's a really good mover. Once he gets out of the pocket a little bit.
81:35And I think the way that he sees it generally, I know he's had a couple of picks this season, but like
81:41some of those late in the game are like, he's immediately getting smacked when they're down.
81:45Like some of that shit is going to happen.
81:48And then I even said it, I think the week one interception, he tried to throw to Noah Fant.
81:53It's a choice, right? Where him and the receiver just don't agree on where they're supposed to be.
81:58And like that stuff is just going to happen early on in the season.
82:02And so he's a player where I really believe in the arm talent, the throws that he's willing to make, like he
82:08can really test every single layer of the field.
82:10He can throw middle of the field. He can throw down the field.
82:14His deep accuracy really is phenomenal. And I think the way that he can test another, like really, one of my favorite
82:20arm strength tests actually is like, can you throw, especially in the red zone, the like flat route straight to the pylon
82:26when you're on like the four yard line, because the angle is so difficult.
82:29It's so narrow that like, if you have to really spit that thing out there and Tyler Schott can do that so easily.
82:36And so the talent I'm really bought in on, he's just a player where I want to see minor improvements.
82:41And can we take one and a half percent less sacks and not check the ball down quite as much?
82:46But I think that's just stuff that's going to come with time.
82:50I believe in him. And the Bozo plays like they're going to, there, there have been a lot of Bozo plays this year.
82:56He's a young player. He's a young player. I just like guys, both of these players.
83:00And even if PEDX, the middle of the field stuff is what we need to see more of.
83:05I love that both of these guys are from the far hash.
83:08If you're playing one step further off than you should have, I can fit it in there.
83:13Both of these guys play that way. And I just like watching quarterbacks who play that way.
83:18Yeah. And they will throw it early. They're not going to wait to see it.
83:22Like they will really, that is the last thing I'll say.
83:25That's really impressive to me about Shuck. I think mechanically and footwork wise, he is one of the most impressive quarterbacks in the league right now.
83:32Like, I really think he's very buttoned up in the way that he operates.
83:35Let's finish things off with what we want to know coming out of week four in the NFL.
83:40This one's simple for me. Can the bears do it again?
83:43Can the bears do it again? Maybe with a different quarterback, we still don't know who's playing quarterback for the bears.
83:49So, I mean, last week, what happened on Monday is set in the moment.
83:53So confidence inspiring. I just want to know, can they do it again?
83:56And the offense might need to do it again because the jets defense or excuse me, the jets offense has been really good and really explosive.
84:03Like there is a chance that you have to put up points to match the jets in this game based on what
84:09we have seen from that offense so far this year.
84:12And so that's it. Can they do it again?
84:14And then the other fun layer to this is we get Ben Johnson versus Aaron Glenn for the first time.
84:20Yeah. If we get a little bit of old guys coming up, coming back into their kind of coming back, you know,
84:26having been in so many meeting rooms together, now they've got to go do it on the opposite sideline.
84:31I think that that's really fun. I do think, yeah, like this, because the bears probably don't win that the Monday night game.
84:37If the Eagles offense looks alive at all, like there were stretches where the Eagles offense looked live.
84:42They throw the red zone pick and then everything kind of falls away for them.
84:46I weirdly don't, I have more faith in the jets offense, not doing that than I think I do with the Eagles
84:52offense at some point, like Geno Smith against some of these mediocre defenses has been really good this season.
84:57And so they're, they're going to make them earn it.
85:00And that it's also something I'm curious what the bears defense looks like.
85:04The bears defense has been, it's been kind of all over the place.
85:07You know, the Panthers obviously had some huge chunk plays in week one to rainstorm in week two.
85:12They had an awful first half against the Eagles last week, and then they looked great in the second half.
85:17And I do think that the jets offense is just a much better test for where your defense is than we probably
85:23would have thought it was coming into the year.
85:26So it just, it's an intriguing game on a lot of different levels considering it's a jets team.
85:31We had no idea what to think about coming into the year and Caleb Williams isn't playing.
85:35It's who would have guessed it, but here we are.
85:38What do you got? What do you want to know coming out of week four in the NFL?
85:43So I've got Panthers lions, and I swear, I don't mean to be doing this bit to two games in a row,
85:49but I was talking to, to our buddy Keegan up do from next gen stats.
85:53So starting wide receivers and tight ends versus all defensive backs on the other team, we were looking at height differences.
85:59The Panthers, the Panthers offense built of all skyscrapers.
86:01And this is assuming Jalen Coker will play, uh, has a 5.2 inch differential on the lines.
86:06DBS on average, almost a half a foot. That is the third largest difference in a game in a decade.
86:11And while I said that that is probably dependent on Jalen Coker playing Tremaine Edmond or, uh, bright, not Tremaine Edmond, uh, Bryson Tremaine.
86:18Get it. Yeah. Getting a little, a little bit confused there.
86:21Tremaine Edmonds would be also a very big receiver.
86:23Would also be very tall, but they're about the same.
86:26They're about six, four. And so like, that's the other guy who would be playing for them.
86:30And so like, they have size in a way that you, the size matchup in a way that you really don't see
86:36last week when I said it for Cardinals Niners, I was like, it's kind of a size thing.
86:41It's kind of a physicality thing. Just the way that Michael Wilson plays and stuff like that.
86:46No, this is truly, they are just going to be above the rim on you in a way that you're not going to be able to match.
86:53And I just, I'm curious to see how that goes.
86:56Toker practice today. There we go. Limited practice, but it sounds like he might be back.
87:00And that's just music to Derek Sears. All Derek wants to watch is big receivers against tiny defensive backs.
87:05All right. That is all we've got for today.
87:08If you're watching this on YouTube, our Thursday night recap is also live.
87:11Brown Steelers encourage you guys to check that out.
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87:22We've got all of the full length podcasts coming to you over the course of the week, Monday and Thursday recaps.
87:28We have multiple YouTube specific film breakdown things that we're doing over the course of the year.
87:32I have a series. Derek has one. I did mine about Bryce Young this week about what feels a little bit different about Bryce Young.
87:39Derek, not surprisingly did his about Brock Bowers. That should be available for you guys either right now or at some point later today.
87:46If you're watching, if you're listening to this on the podcast feed, obviously the Thursday night recap is available as well.
87:51So please check that out for now. That's all we got.
87:54Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you on Sunday.
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