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Week 4 Recap: Chiefs and 49ers Remain unbeated, Jaguars win ugly, CeeDee Lamb goes off

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 42 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Oct 5, 2026
Published
Mon, October 5, 2026
43
Player insights
35
Players mentioned
Topics
CeeDee LambDrake MayeDak PrescottGeorge PickensJoe BurrowTravis HunterBo NixBrenton StrangeBrock BowersBrock PurdyBryce YoungC.J. StroudChris RodriguezCourtland Sutton
Player analysis

Player insights

43

Bo Nix

NegativeProjection63:00

Nix averaged 4.6 air yards per attempt and -3.0 average air yards to the sticks in Week 4 against San Francisco. The source describes his performance as frustrating, noting he holds onto the ball on real drop-back concepts only to check it down or throw swing passes, showing a lack of willingness to be aggressive and ambitious until the game is on the line in the fourth quarter. He had only one completion beyond 10 air yards and three completions between the numbers that gained 14 yards total.

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Brenton Strange

PositiveUsage45:00

The source highlights Brenton Strange's involvement in two key Jaguars offensive plays: a play-action design where 'Brenton Strange kind of blocks down for a second, leaks out to the flat for 11 yards,' and a deep rap route on the drive to go up 23-10. These plays demonstrate Strange's role in the Jaguars' offensive scheme and his ability to create chunk plays.

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Brock Bowers

PositiveUsage0:15

Brock Bowers finished the Raiders-Chiefs game with 11 targets, making him one of the primary receiving options for Kirk Cousins. The source notes that Kirk Cousins threw 29 of his 52 passes to tight ends and running backs, with Bowers receiving the most targets among that group. This reflects the Raiders' offensive design centered around tight ends and running backs rather than traditional wide receivers.

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Brock Purdy

PositiveProjection67:00

Purdy hit Mike Evans on a deep in-breaker late in the second quarter with an early release, and extended plays in the fourth quarter to find receivers downfield. The source notes he made several well-timed throws and showed the ability to hit explosive plays when given time, contrasting favorably with Bo Nix's conservative approach.

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Bryce Young

PositiveProjection0:13

The source praises Bryce Young's performance in the Panthers-Lions Sunday night game, describing it as 'a really impressive performance' and 'what a game from Bryce Young.' The flashes from Young are characterized as 'incredibly exciting,' and the source expresses enthusiasm about digging into his performance in detail on the next show.

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C.J. Stroud

PositiveProjection28:48

Stroud delivered an elite performance in the Texans' loss to Dallas, posting a top-10 EPA per dropback of his entire career. The source notes he made several equally impressive throws throughout the game and was 'dealing,' but the Texans' defense failed to step up in crunch time. Despite the loss, Stroud has been one of the best five or six quarterbacks in the NFL thus far this season, and the source maintains long-term faith in his ability to perform at a top-10 level.

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CeeDee Lamb

PositiveProjection0:00

The source highlights CeeDee Lamb as one of the standout performers of Week 4, noting his explosive performance in the episode title and opening segment. Lamb is referenced alongside other top performers as a player who 'goes off,' indicating strong fantasy production and continued elite-level play.

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PositiveProjection20:09

Lamb delivered one of the best receiver performances of the 2020s decade: 21 targets, 17 catches, 189 yards, and 1 touchdown (game-winner) against the Texans. He was the first receiver in the 2020s to catch 17+ passes in a game; Keenan Allen did it in 2023, and Antonio Brown had 17 for 284 as a Steeler in 2015. The source notes this was a combination of great players making great plays and excellent design by Dallas, particularly in the second half.

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PositiveUsage26:00

Lamb was heavily targeted (21 targets) and consistently made difficult catches in tight windows against Derek Stingley, demonstrating elite ball skills and quarterback chemistry with Dak Prescott. The source highlights three or four examples where Lamb came back to the ball aggressively and friendly to the quarterback, making catches in tight windows that required precise timing from Prescott. On the game-winning drive, Lamb made a comeback catch against Stingley one-on-one where the ball came out so early that if timing was off, the play would not have been completed.

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Chris Rodriguez

PositiveUsage45:00

The source details Chris Rodriguez's touchdown run on a same-side power play where 'Chris Rodriguez essentially goes untouched for 25 yards' due to excellent blocking by Anton Harrison and Colvin Lanham's pull. The source praises the play design, noting the Jaguars identified the Bengals' defensive tendency to let the end slice and exploited it with this touchdown run.

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Courtland Sutton

PositiveMatchup65:00

Sutton was consistently beaten one-on-one by 49ers cornerback Deommodore Lenore on the outside throughout Week 4. The source notes that Lenore was winning those situations consistently, which limited Sutton's opportunities since he is where Bo Nix prefers to target the ball.

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D.J. Moore

NegativeInjury62:00

Moore was injured during Week 4 and was only active for approximately half of the Bills' passing plays. The source notes this was a factor in the game but does not believe it was the primary reason for the Bills' loss.

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Dak Prescott

PositiveProjection26:00

Prescott delivered an exceptional performance in the Cowboys' comeback win, particularly on the game-winning drive with two minutes remaining. The source charted the entire drive and highlighted multiple impressive throws: a dig to Lamb where Jalen Petrie nearly intercepted on the first snap; a sit-down route to Ferguson on fourth-and-one; and a 15-yard completion fitting the ball between Stingley and Petrie on second-and-ten. The source describes these as 'nails throws' and notes that Prescott consistently tested tight windows and made his receivers right on difficult throws throughout the game.

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PositiveRole28:00

Prescott demonstrated the ability to win one-on-one football in addition to executing schemed plays, which the source identifies as a requirement for elite offenses. Against the Texans' good defense, Prescott made throws that required receivers to earn catches through tight-window completions and aggressive ball placement. The source notes that if the Cowboys are going to be one of the best offenses in the league, they need both gears: scheme and one-on-one execution, and Prescott proved they have both.

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Dalton Kincaid

NegativeUsage58:00

Kincaid received only 2 targets in Week 4 after being the most important pass catcher on the Bills in the first few weeks. He ran 17 routes and the Bills used only 13% of their plays in 13 personnel (two tight ends), a major departure from early-season usage. The source attributes this to offensive game-planning issues and notes that offensive coordinator Joe Brady himself questioned the decision.

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Drake Maye

PositiveProjection0:00

Drake May is mentioned in the opening segment as 'notably grabbing our attention' in Week 4, indicating a standout performance or development that warrants discussion on the show.

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PositiveProjection46:00

The source praises Drake Maye's performance against the Bills, describing it as 'a performance that looked a lot more like 2025 Drake May than what we have seen so far this year.' The source notes he made 'five or six incredible throws and plays this game that looked like last year's Drake May,' including his ability to find space and time in the pocket, buy time with his legs, and make tight-window throws. The source states 'I feel pretty confident believing that this version of Drake May is much more reality than whatever the first three weeks of the season were.'

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NegativeBust47:00

The source notes Drake Maye had a strip sack in the Patriots-Bills game, attributing it partly to his small hands ('this is going to be a thing with him probably for a majority of his career') and his tendency to put himself in bad positions. The source explains 'he kind of puts himself in those positions where on that play, the right guard is just getting pushed right into his face. And he tries to slide up into a pocket that is is non-existent.' The source compares this to 'sliding up into like the trash compactor from Star Wars.' However, the source notes this is offset by his ability to make plays in these situations.

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Evan Engram

NegativeMatchup65:30

Engram was targeted late in the second quarter on a throw that arrived late, allowing 49ers safety Malik Mustafa to get in and make a play on the ball for a pass breakup. The source notes this late throw exemplifies Bo Nix's decision-making issues.

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Fernando Mendoza

NegativeProjection0:16

Fernando Mendoza is discussed as a future option for the Raiders at quarterback. The source notes 'at some point, Fernando Mendoza is going to play' and suggests that while he's not calling for him to play immediately, Mendoza represents a potential solution for the Raiders' long-term quarterback needs. The source also notes that if Mendoza can be paired with a receiver upgrade, the Raiders could solve their offensive explosiveness issues going forward, stating 'if you're thinking ahead for the future and you're trying to be excited about 2027 and you're like, man, we got to solve receiver and quarterback. Well, they don't have to solve quarterback. You know, who knows how good he'll be, but they have an answer for like trying to get more explosive that way.'

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George Kittle

PositiveProjection67:00

Kittle took a middle screen 60 yards for a touchdown in Week 4 against Denver, just 8.5 months after suffering an Achilles injury. The source expresses amazement at the amount of explosiveness and gas Kittle has recovered post-injury, calling it "completely insane."

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George Pickens

PositiveValue0:18

George Pickens is discussed as a potential free agent target for the Raiders in the offseason. The source notes 'George Pickens feels like a Raider' and suggests pairing Pickens with Fernando Mendoza, stating 'Get him someone who will catch the back shoulder. I'm pretty sure George Pickens will catch a back shoulder too.' Pickens is positioned as a potential solution to the Raiders' receiver explosiveness problem.

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PositiveRole18:39

Pickens provides essential vertical stretch to the Steelers offense despite not being heavily targeted; his ability to create separation deep and take defenders vertically opens up underneath routes for other receivers. On one third-quarter play, Pickens ran vertical while CeeDee Lamb ran a crosser, forcing Stingley to pass him off and creating space for Lamb; Pickens also drew two penalties from Stingley on the same drive. His verticality is necessary for the offense to function at its best.

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Ian Thomas

NegativeUsage0:05

Ian Thomas was targeted in the Raiders-Chiefs game on a 28-yard screen pass and a delay route down the sideline, representing one of the few explosive plays the Raiders generated offensively. The source notes these were among the Raiders' limited big plays in the game.

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Ja'Marr Chase

NegativeInjury42:51

The source mentions that Jamar Chase 'got hurt early on' in the Jaguars-Bengals game, noting this context when discussing the Bengals' passing game performance and the Jaguars' secondary coverage quality despite Chase's absence.

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James Cook

NegativeUsage58:00

Cook received only 12 carries in Week 4, his lowest carry total since the end of the 2024 season, despite the Bills' 67% rushing success rate and 53% team rushing success rate. The source notes this was particularly frustrating given Cook's talent level and the offensive context where the run game was working effectively.

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Joe Burrow

NegativeProjection36:00

Burrow threw for 400 yards in the Bengals' loss to Jacksonville but was forced into a specific pattern by the Jaguars' defense. He had 9 completions from 11-25 yards outside the numbers, the most in a game since Dak Prescott in November 2023. The Jaguars' cloud coverage and run defense forced Burrow to either throw into that hole or check the ball down, preventing explosive plays over the top. Despite the yardage, the defense limited big plays and forced him to accumulate yards in 16-yard chunks.

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NegativeProjection41:21

Joe Burrow threw for 400 yards in the Jaguars-Bengals game but scored fewer than 20 points, making this only one of 11 games since 2000 where a team has achieved this stat line. The source notes Burrow had 'some really nice moments' in the passing game, including 'bully ball T Higgins back shoulder throws,' but the Jaguars' defense was effective at limiting explosive plays and forcing turnovers despite the yardage total.

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Josh Allen

NegativeBust55:00

The source criticizes Josh Allen's decision-making in the Bills-Patriots game, highlighting a backhanded flip at the goal line that 'gets away with that' despite being risky, and a late-game throw that was 'completely unnecessary.' The source explains on the late throw: 'At the very beginning of the play, he thinks the corner is going to be open. And I think if he's able to throw it at the very top of his drop, it might be open. But then he has to evade a rusher. He like spins out of it and he like plans to throw it again. And there's nothing in his mind that tells him it's been a little bit too long for me to go and try to make that throw again.' The source notes 'with the amount of timeouts they had time, they had it was only, I think, second and six or something like that. Like there was really no reason for him to make some of those plays.'

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Josh Cameron

PositiveUsage44:24

The source highlights Josh Cameron's play on a fake toss gun from play action, noting he 'shook off Jordan Battle coming downhill' on a 'great yak play' that helped the Jaguars move the ball and score on the drive to go up 16-10.

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Kenneth Walker III

PositiveProjection0:04

Kenneth Walker had an explosive performance against the Raiders, rushing for 177 yards. Per true media, through the first four weeks of the season, only 2003 Jamal Lewis and 2010 Arian Foster have rushed for more yards through the first four weeks. Walker passed DeMarco Murray's 2014 pace (1800 yards). The source notes he is 'on a complete tear' and has been the key to the Chiefs' offensive success, with the question from the offseason—'is Kenneth Walker being explosive as hell good enough to fix everything about the Chiefs offense?'—answered affirmatively through four weeks.

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Keon Coleman

PositiveBreakout61:00

Coleman is starting to show signs of development with meaningful signal from the Bills offense. The source notes he made some good plays in Week 4, including a bobbled catch and several downfield shots on deep posts and similar routes to Josh Palmer, suggesting the team believes he can be a useful part of the offense going forward.

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Kirk Cousins

NegativeProjection0:13

Kirk Cousins threw 52 passes in the Raiders-Chiefs game, completing 29 of those 52 passes to tight ends and running backs. The source characterizes Cousins as 'a really good quarterback if you don't hit him' and notes that 'when he does have like time to work or he gets the ball out or they just block it up really well on that play, like he really is seeing it really well. He's very accurate.' However, on the final drive, Cousins 'glitched out' at the line, going through 'a system reboot' before scrambling and realizing he needed to get rid of the ball, ultimately preventing the Raiders from getting into position for a potential game-tying field goal attempt.

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Marvin Mims

NegativeMatchup68:30

Mims was involved in a controversial muffed punt call in Week 4 against San Francisco. The source disputes the call, noting that while Mims' wrist hit down before his elbow (technically a fumble by the letter of the law), the spirit of the play suggested he was down. The turnover led to a 49ers field position advantage that changed the game's momentum.

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Michael Mayer

PositiveUsage0:14

Michael Mayer received 10 targets in the Raiders-Chiefs game, the second-most among Raiders pass catchers. The source describes Mayer as 'their best offensive weapon pass catcher' and notes that 'calling him a tight end is almost a misnomer at this point.' Mayer is a central part of the Raiders' offensive design, which is built around tight ends and running backs rather than traditional wide receivers.

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Mike Evans

PositiveUsage66:00

Evans was heavily featured in the 49ers' Week 4 offensive design against Denver. He caught a deep curl in the fourth quarter after Brock Purdy extended the play, and was the target on the touchdown play in the fourth quarter on an insert play-action where he got lost on the left sideline. The source notes these were well-designed plays that showcased Evans' role in the offense.

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Patrick Mahomes

NegativeProjection0:10

Patrick Mahomes completed only 15 passes for 225 yards but won the game against the Raiders, marking the second time this season he's won a game with only 15 completions—the first time he's done this in five years (not since 2021). Mahomes averaged 11.3 air yards per attempt, significantly higher than his typical range, with six passes of 20+ yards in the air. The source notes this represents a departure from the Chiefs' typical offensive approach over the last couple of years, describing the offense as 'feast or famine' and dependent on explosive plays. Mahomes had a critical third-and-five completion to Taequann Thornton against cover zero where he 'bought that time' and found Thornton downfield, a play that changed the game's win expectancy.

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Romeo Doubs

PositiveUsage48:00

The source highlights Romeo Doubs' two touchdown receptions from Drake Maye, particularly praising the first one as an 'incredible play' where Maye 'get all the way back to the backside to Romeo Dobbs in a pocket that is condensing and rips that thing for a touchdown' on a fake screen play. The source notes this was 'the moment rewatching this game where I was like, holy shit, that's an impressive play.' Doubs also had a completion on the final drive where Maye 'keeps his eyes downfield while he's sliding to the left to find Dobbs for a completion.'

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T.Y. Hilton

NegativeUsage40:30

The source discusses T Higgins receiving 'bully ball back shoulder throws' from Joe Burrow in the Jaguars-Bengals game, indicating the Bengals had moments in the passing game despite Jacksonville's strong defensive performance. Higgins was targeted on several plays but the Jaguars' coverage scheme, particularly cloud coverage, limited his effectiveness overall.

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Travis Hunter

PositiveRole37:24

The source highlights Travis Hunter's interception in the Jaguars-Bengals game as an impressive defensive play, noting he 'jukes T Higgins out of his shoes' after the catch—described as 'one of the coolest things that happened to the day.' The interception was negated by an Eric Armstead roughing the passer penalty, but the source emphasizes the quality of Hunter's coverage work and his ability to take away vertical routes in zone coverage, exemplifying the Jaguars' defensive strength.

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PositiveRole38:00

Hunter made an impact play for the Jaguars defense in their win over Cincinnati, though the source notes they should have had another interception from him. He was part of a Jaguars defense that executed a bend-don't-break game plan effectively, forcing Burrow to throw into specific windows and preventing explosive plays.

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Xavier Worthy

NegativeRole0:08

Xavier Worthy had a contested catch 40 yards down the field against Eric Stokes in the Chiefs-Raiders game and 'looked really impressive doing so.' However, the source notes that despite being 'supposed to be that sort of player' (a deep-field explosive threat), 'he hasn't been that sort of player' through four weeks. With Taequann Thornton's injury, the source suggests 'they're going to need a lot more of that' from Worthy, implying increased role and opportunity but also uncertainty about whether he can fill the void left by Thornton.

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Zay Flowers

PositiveProjection0:00

Zay Flowers is mentioned as a player the hosts got 'a little bit romantic about' in Week 4, suggesting positive sentiment and enthusiasm about his performance or role going forward.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

1,331
0:00Welcome to The Athletic Football Show brought to you by the U.S.
0:03Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays. Week 4 is in the books.
0:07A lot of great stuff to dig into today.
0:10We're going to talk about Panthers Lions tomorrow on the hangover.
0:13We touched on it a little bit at the top, but a really impressive performance from Bryce Young and Tadaroa McMillan.
0:18We kick things off with the Chiefs beating the Raiders in an exciting one.
0:22CeeDee Lamb, the Jags and the Patriots, notably Drake May grabbing our attention.
0:26Some WTF stuff from the Broncos. We had a little bit of a conversation about the Rams Eagles, and some bizarre historic
0:32stats in Bears-Jets and then we got a little bit romantic about Zay Flowers with me Dave and Derek.
0:37Let's get to it right now. Another awesome day of NFL football.
0:40We had a fantastic witching hour in the noon window, a lot of interesting results in the afternoon window, and then a
0:46Sunday night game that was exciting on a bunch of different levels.
0:50Not only did it come down to the final drive for the Lions, but what a game from Bryce Young.
0:55Bryce Young and Ted Roe McMillan. My God, I couldn't believe that game came down to the end the way it did.
1:01Like, it seemed like the Panthers had kind of run away with it.
1:05At some point, it like it was around when there were like seven and a half minutes left in the fourth quarter.
1:11It was like Panthers got a two score lead.
1:13Feels like they'll be able to run the clock out the way that they've been playing offense today.
1:18Like we can kind of move on. I can check out.
1:21And then like every time I look back, I'm like, wait, the Lions might still actually go and win the game.
1:27But assuming a basic degree of competency, the NFL really is starting to remind me of the NBA where a run's coming.
1:33Like unless one team just looks completely inept or there's a quarterback injury.
1:36If you're within like if you're within 17, you're going to have a shot to make it interesting late in the game.
1:43Most of the time we saw that we're not another game.
1:46Seattle, L.A. is the same thing where you look up and you're like, holy shit, this was lopsided like 45 minutes ago.
1:52And so really fun way to cap it off, though, like a thousand yards of total offense.
1:56So good time to bring up the Chargers and the Seahawks.
1:59We're going to talk about that game on the hangover tomorrow.
2:02We're going to dig into Panthers, Lions on the hangover tomorrow.
2:05It's going to be the first thing we talk about for people who are new watching these.
2:10We don't often hit the Sunday night game in real time.
2:13We're prepping the rest of the show during the Sunday night game.
2:16And so unless it's like a marquee matchup between two bulletproof playoff teams, for the most part, we save the Sunday night
2:22game to start the hangover, which is the show we do Monday into Tuesday.
2:26So that's what we're going to do this week.
2:29Talk all about what the Panthers did, what Bryce Young did, what Ted Roe and McMillan did.
2:33We'll be digging into that. We'll be digging into Seahawks and Chargers, like I just said.
2:38And the third game will be the Giants and the Cardinals.
2:41So those will be the three hangover games tomorrow.
2:43It bears repeating before we move on, though. Ted Roe and McMillan.
2:46Holy crap. Bryce Young as well. I went into the Sunday night game.
2:50I was at 15 in my high school fantasy league.
2:53That is more important to me than I like to admit at this stage in my life.
2:57I was like, oh, I may hang on to this.
3:00I got a cheap Brock Bowers touchdown late. They got those two Kenneth Walker touchdowns in about six seconds.
3:05I was like, man, what an unlikely win. Lucky me.
3:08And then I hung on to that lead for about 18 minutes of real time because of what Ted Roe and McMillan did tonight.
3:15So it's been a fun start to the season for Bryce Young and Ted Roe and McMillan.
3:19The flashes from Bryce Young have been incredibly exciting.
3:22And so very excited to dig into that game in earnest and in full tomorrow.
3:26But we are going to start this show with another big win for today.
3:30And that is the Kansas City Chiefs knocking off the Las Vegas Raiders 30 to 27.
3:34For offensively, this was a sleepy game for a good chunk of the game.
3:38The score was in the teens as we got deep into the third quarter, into the fourth quarter.
3:43And then we had an explosion late in this game.
3:46Again, another one where Raiders were down two scorers felt like it was over.
3:49They somehow dragged themselves back. Derek, you were the only one that wasn't in the room as that game was happening.
3:55I'm curious, just your initial thoughts on the Chiefs managing to pull this one out against the Raiders.
4:00Well, it's funny. You say it was sleepy. And I think at one point the broadcast right before the big Kenneth Walker
4:06run, the broadcast was like, oh, the Chiefs have only had like 18 yards in this quarter.
4:11Blah, blah, blah. And he instantly rips off like a 70 yarder because Trey Smith absolutely moves the defensive alignment ahead of him.
4:17Jalen Moore does a really good job of kicking out the defensive end there.
4:21The whole right side. The whole right side. There's a lot of movement on that play.
4:25Everybody. And then the whole point of why you get a guy like Kenneth Walker is if you can get him to
4:31that second level, the safety coming down is not going to be at the angle that he wants to be.
4:37And Jeremy Chin was not at the angle that he wanted to be to go and catch Kenneth Walker.
4:42And so I do think overall, and this will probably, I think, continue to be true of the Chiefs offense.
4:48But I do think that they should be good enough at it.
4:51Maybe without Taequann Thornton, maybe this won't be true.
4:53They feel like a touchdown to check down style of offense.
4:56I think the way that their run game operates, it is very explosive.
5:00And I think today they were very much like we hit three or four like huge chunk plays down the field.
5:06And other than that, they were living in the flats.
5:08It was boots. It was Mahomes getting to check downs, making some plays that way.
5:13It was a very like feast or famine style of play.
5:16And I do think if Mahomes can hit enough of those, I do think that can work.
5:20We can maybe talk about what that actually looks like without Taequann Thornton.
5:24Rashid Rice was obviously banged up in this game.
5:26And so it gives me a little bit of pause.
5:29But when they've been good at it, they've been very good at that this year.
5:33I totally agree about how the game felt. I mean, their explosives is what carried them in this game.
5:38And so I think there's a few different things to hit there.
5:42One, it was the difference in the game. Them being explosive versus the Raiders only having really one explosive play.
5:47I mean, they had the 28-yard gente screen at one point.
5:50But other than that, it was really just the kind of leak play to Ian Thomas.
5:54It was on the same side. So it was almost more like a delay down the sideline to Ian Thomas.
6:00But that was really the only one. And then the Chiefs had really four of them, right?
6:05They had the one to Worthy. They had the two to Thornton.
6:08They had a 76-yard run for Kenneth Walker. So that really was the difference in this game is that the Chiefs were able to be so explosives.
6:15That's the observation about this game. The second thought is, how f***ing weird is it that that's what the Chiefs are?
6:21Like, think about how we talked about the Chiefs for the last two years.
6:25The idea that they're a feast or famine offense that had to survive on explosives today.
6:29That's an uncomfortable place for me to live with the Kansas City Chiefs.
6:33But that is what happened. Okay. It's funny you say that because there's a half dozen preseason conversations that live in my brain rent-free.
6:39And one of them is the long conversation we had in July or August about, is Kenneth Walker being explosive as hell
6:45good enough to fix everything about the Chiefs offense?
6:48And through four weeks, the answer is yes. And ironically, it's terrible because Taequann Thornton, I don't need to see a whole
6:54lot else to know that he's going to be missing for a while.
6:58I mean, it's devastating. That was a tough moment.
7:00I mean, did you guys, I don't know if you guys saw the clip.
7:04Did you see the clip? I think it was Caliendo came over to him and was trying to get him up.
7:10And then Taequann Thornton pointed to his foot. Caliendo looks at his foot and then immediately looks away.
7:15Well, I think that was the reaction all of us had.
7:18He didn't like know. Like, you can see him start to pop up and like celebrate.
7:22And then after a while, it's like, oh, that's not that's not going to go how it's going to go, which sucks because he was.
7:29I mean, other than Ken Walker and Patrick Mahomes, maybe he was like their best player in this game.
7:34I legitimately I've been joking about it. No, Dave has heard me say this like three or four times in the first
7:40month of the season that Taequann Thornton is the most important receiver on the Chiefs.
7:44And I after today, I think you would feel the difference in losing him.
7:48I don't know if you want to live this way every game where it's three or four explosives and Kenneth Walker is what's carrying you.
7:55But in games where you have to live like that, this offense is going to feel significantly different without Taequann Thornton.
8:01Even going back to last year, I felt like he gave them a dimension that they really didn't have, because for as
8:07much as Xavier Worthy was supposed to be that sort of player, he hasn't been that sort of player.
8:12He had the contested catch on the field today, but that doesn't really happen.
8:16And Thornton's the guy that's been giving them that element.
8:18And so losing him, I actually do think is a really big deal.
8:22It's a huge deal. And I mean, if I'm a Chiefs fan, I'm clinging to the hope that Xavier Worthy boxed Eric
8:28Stokes out for a contested catch 40 yards down the field in this game and looked really impressive doing so.
8:33And I'm guessing they're going to need a lot more of that.
8:37Well, I don't know what the deal is with Rasheed Rice's hamstring, but soft tissue injuries for receivers are always scary.
8:43And so it sucks for them. And maybe you're right that this isn't a way to live consistently, but it sucks for
8:49them that Kenneth Walker has managed to open so many things up for what we would all agree is a pretty lackluster receiver group.
8:55And now they're I feel like they're going to be playing with a hand tied behind their back.
9:00Either that or they have the early buy, by the way, they're off next week.
9:04And so I don't know. Receiver tryouts, Tyree kill.
9:07What are you doing? Tyree kill feels like. I mean, that was a joke for like three weeks.
9:12And now I'm like, well, you got to at least see what he looks like running around in shorts during the bye week.
9:18I mean, they have to do something like whether it's Tyree kill or you have the buy.
9:23So like, do you want to trade for someone like you have a week to like actually get them into the offense
9:29before it becomes like, is this guy actually going to work in our team?
9:32Like, I actually do think that they're in a decent position if they want to do something.
9:37I don't have the season long stats from last year.
9:40I'd be curious on a per game basis if you ever match this total.
9:44Patrick Mahomes averaged 11.3 air yards per attempt tonight.
9:46That just wasn't how the Chiefs offense was operating over the last couple of years.
9:50Obviously, their inefficiency on deep throws was a point of conversation, but they weren't even attempting that many.
9:55He had six passes today that were 20 plus yards in the air.
9:59And so this version of the offense is just kind of strange.
10:02And when you think about the moment where this game changes, it's the third and five where he hits Thornton against cover zero.
10:08Like him buying that time and finding Thornton down the field is where this game changes.
10:13If you look at it in that moment before that pass gets thrown, the Raiders had, I can't remember the exact number
10:19on it, but they're like win expectancy in that moment from next gen was extremely high.
10:23Like as soon as it got to that third and five, it felt like the Raiders were probably going to win that game.
10:29And then Mahomes completes that crazy throw to Thornton buying that time to his left.
10:34And again, just being in a place where the Chiefs offense lives and feasts on those explosive plays.
10:38And that's where they survive for most of the game is just kind of a disorienting place to be.
10:44Two stats I wanted to share coming out of this game, which to that point, I mean, Mahomes had a big day despite completing 15 balls.
10:5115 for 225. It's the second. It's a weird game.
10:54Second time he's won, won a game in which he only completed 15 passes this year.
10:58And this is the first year he's managed to do that in five years.
11:02It's not since 2021. Were they able like to get that much out of so few completions for Patrick Mahomes?
11:07The other fun thing coming out of this, it shouldn't be surprising given what he's done.
11:12Per true media, Kenneth Walker's, uh, what he finished with one 77 today.
11:15Per true media through the first four weeks of a season, only 2003 Jamal Lewis and 2010 Arian Foster have rushed for
11:21more yards through the first four weeks of a season.
11:24Like he, he passed, uh, DeMarco Murray ran for 1800 in 2014.
11:27He passed him up on, um, today just barely, but I mean, he's, he's on a complete tear and they're going to
11:33have to do something at receiver if I had to guess.
11:36But the question over the summer of like, is this enough to actually make the chiefs feel different?
11:41Yep. Sure is. What are your thoughts about the Raiders after this game, Derek?
11:45Because if they, if the Raiders don't fumble the kickoff at 23 19, they have three minutes left down by four to
11:51potentially go down and win this game. Instead, the chiefs get the ball back.
11:55They score immediately. Now it's a two score game with three ish minutes.
11:59Obviously the Raiders cut it close, but when you're down 11 with three minutes left or yeah, we're not 11 with three minutes left.
12:05It's going to be a tall order. Even if you can score that first touchdown, we saw that.
12:10So as you think about just the Raiders ability to stay in this game, what you saw from them on both sides
12:16of the ball, where do you sit with the Raiders four weeks into the season, even with them losing this game?
12:22I mean, pretty much where we came in to them to this game, where it was like, I think they're an exciting team.
12:28I think their ceiling is going to be limited just by the fact that I think in certain talent wise, like offensive
12:34line, I think some of the secondary is still up and down, even if those guys are really exciting.
12:39There's just spots that I think you can pick on.
12:42And I've talked about like how I came into the season with the Packers, like those two positions, when those are your
12:48shaky spots, you're going to give up some big plays.
12:51And I think obviously that's what happened on both sides in this game.
12:54But I do think that they're a team that's really well coached on both sides of the ball, like some of the
13:00pressures that they were trying to bring to get to my homes.
13:04I thought the way that they were getting pressure off the edge specifically, which we talked about coming into this matchup, they
13:10were really able to do like the Quay Walker, where they fired him inside the red zone, inside the goal line.
13:16And like they were able to go and sack them homes out to his left.
13:20I thought was really nice. And then offensively, Kirk Cousins is a really good quarterback if you don't hit him.
13:25Like, like, like I know that that sounds like it's the NFL.
13:28You're going to get hit all the time. And obviously there's limitations to that.
13:32But when he does have like time to work or he gets the ball out or they just block it up really
13:38well on that play, like he really is seeing it really well.
13:42He's very accurate. And the offense is designed in such a way that a quarterback like that is going to be able to take advantage.
13:48And so they're going to lack some explosiveness down the field because they don't have a receiver who can automatically cash in
13:55that way, like a CD lamb, George Pickens or whatever.
13:57And Kirk Cousins doesn't really have the arm to do that.
14:00But I do think that, again, like I said, coming into the week, they're going to test your all of your rules
14:06and make you play good sound football. And I think that we saw that like they put a very good Chiefs team on the ropes.
14:13And I do think that they can do that to a lot of other good teams.
14:18It's kind of funny that we talked about this going into last year where the Raiders were this kind of oddity in the way that they were built.
14:25They have a first round top 10 running back.
14:28They have, I mean, calling him a tight end is almost a misnomer at this point, but their best offensive weapon pass catcher is obviously a tight end.
14:35Now you have Michael Mayer as a big part of what their offense looks like.
14:39And we thought, oh, there'll be a high floor team.
14:42There'll be kind of strange. You know, they'll stick around.
14:45They'll give people problems. And then that obviously didn't happen.
14:48They were a disaster from day one. It took a year, but the Raiders are who we thought they were going to be last year.
14:55They're this weird team where you're built around tight ends and a running back in this game collectively.
14:59Okay. Kirk Cousins ended up throwing 52 passes in this game.
15:02He threw, excuse me, he threw 29 of those 52 passes to the tight ends and the running back.
15:08Brock Bowers ended this game with 11 targets. Michael Mayer had 10 and Ashton Jensie had eight.
15:12It's a weird team. It's a weird team in the way they thought we thought they were going to be a weird
15:18team this year, but there's just so much to like about everything that they're doing on both sides of the ball.
15:24Even if a part of that weirdness is them boxing themselves in and limiting them in a way that other teams with more explosive pass catchers aren't limited.
15:32It does kind of sound like you're telling me that when in doubt hired like the young assertive play caller, who's about
15:38his business and you can make all this stuff look a hell of a lot better because Clint Kubiak has been so impressive.
15:44And I, the Rob Leonard has been just as impressive.
15:47I think that when you get, I compared them to the Jags a couple of weeks ago and I said their best
15:53case scenario is probably being like a diet version of the Jags and from last year.
15:57And I think that's kind of where I sit with it.
16:00I think they're probably well coached enough to give people problems all year to stay in a lot of these games.
16:06I just worry about what the ceiling looks like and ultimately what the firepower looks like because of the explosiveness at receiver and the explosiveness of the quarterback.
16:14Other than that, I think that there is a lot to like about this team just sticking around, sticking around, sticking around and Raiders fans.
16:21Taking a lot of satisfaction and watching them every single week.
16:24I just think that what they've continued to show even after losing this game, there's just so much to like about what
16:30they're bringing to the table game in and game out.
16:32And what a fun, satisfying place to be as a Raider fan compared to what last year felt like.
16:38And if you're looking forward to the future, like sometimes there might be teams like this, right?
16:42Where, okay, you're this upstart kind of fun team.
16:45And you lack this explosiveness in the passing game.
16:47And it's like, well, are we going to run out of road at some point?
16:51Well, at some point, Fernando Mendoza is going to play.
16:54And I don't know if that means this year or later, but like, and I, again, I'm not even calling for him
17:00to play because I do think Kirk is playing very, very well.
17:03But if you're thinking ahead for the future and you're trying to be excited about 2027 and you're like, man, we got to solve receiver and quarterback.
17:11Well, they don't have to solve quarterback. You know, who knows how good he'll be, but they have an answer for like
17:17trying to get more explosive that way. I'm not calling for Fernando right now, either, even though that was my whole mission heading into the season.
17:24Kirk has played well. It's worth mentioning. Like Kirk, after a overall solid game, like glitched out on that final play.
17:30Yeah, he did. He did good shot. Like the whole offense did.
17:33I mean, how they handled that final drive. He did glitch out.
17:36He, I mean, he, he just went through like a system reboot at the line and then realized like he clicked back
17:42on after he started scrambling and was like, wait, I was drafted in 2012.
17:46I got to get rid of this wall, which, you know, kind of a down note to finish it on because it's
17:52at least conceivable they could have gotten into position for a game tying field goal attempt, which I would have liked to
17:58see based on how entertaining that game was. It's that's just still, it's a, it's tough sledding.
18:03I mean, like when you're in, you know, timeouts and everything else.
18:06I feel like sometimes we should give quarterback specifically a little bit more grace when it comes to the decision-making in those
18:12moments where the game is kind of spiraling away from you when you have no ability to stop the clock.
18:18But yes, I would say glitched out is the proper way to describe what was happening in that moment.
18:23Is it bad that I'm already playing like which receiver can the Raiders afford next off season?
18:28Is it bad that I'm already putting, trying to put George Pickens on the Raiders and just seeing what happens.
18:33I was going to ask more of the options.
18:36George Pickens is going to be a free agent next year.
18:39Because the other one. George Pickens feels like a Raider.
18:41Well, and what did we say about Fernando Mendoza?
18:44Get him someone who will catch the back shoulder.
18:46I'm pretty sure George Pickens will catch a back shoulder too.
18:49The Fernando point is such a good one though, because if you're a team like the Raiders and I mean where the
18:55Browns are at right now, if you win enough games and you put yourself out of the quarterback conversation and you're like,
19:01all right, well now we do like a middle of the road thing with Deshaun Watson and have to piece it together.
19:07The Raiders aren't in that position. The Raiders have the number one pick in this draft that will be playing for them eventually.
19:14And so that's not enough solace to explain away or not care about the fact that you lost this game today.
19:19But as somebody who doesn't have to be moment by moment emotionally invested in the Las Vegas Raiders, I think that is the perspective I'm taking here.
19:27Not to go too in the weeds. I apologize.
19:29But we always talk about how receivers of that caliber rarely even make it to free agency.
19:34Pickens was tagged. And to Alec Pierce, they were able to reach a deal in Indianapolis.
19:38Maybe the more realistic scenario here is the draft.
19:41And Indiana has a hell of a wide receiver who played with Fernando Mendoza.
19:45But if the Raiders have like the 28th pick in the draft, they're going to be able to get that guy.
19:50Maybe you can maneuver. You know, we're not we're not going after.
19:54I would have said Jeremiah Smith, but that's definitely not on the table.
19:57Like the Raiders are way too good for Jeremiah Smith.
20:00But these are building the beast conversations. All right.
20:02Before we move on, let's take one quick break.
20:05Gentlemen. Now you have my attention. The Dallas Cowboys knock off the Texans 34 to 30.
20:09But the guy that really stuck out in this game, CeeDee Lamb, 21 targets, 17 catches, 189 yards and one touchdown.
20:15That being the game winner. CeeDee Lamb and the Dallas Cowboys offense against the Texans.
20:19You officially have our attention. That's where that's where I want to start.
20:23You remember last year, Joe Flacco and Jamar Chase played that game where he threw to him like 20 some odd times in prime time.
20:30And it was just like no matter what they wanted, Joe Flacco was going to find Jamar Chase.
20:34That's against the Steelers defense. That was good. But like you could kind of pick on in certain ways.
20:40This is the Texans, man. Like I still think that this defense can be really good, even despite how today went.
20:45And for for Dak and for CeeDee to play the way that they did, especially in the second half of this game,
20:51the offense didn't do a whole lot in the first half.
20:54It really wasn't until the second half that they really exploded.
20:58The Texans were giving Dak fits in the early going of this game.
21:01They were down 17, six at halftime. The Cowboys were.
21:04They scored six points in the first half. Yeah.
21:06Was it 17, six or 16, six? Either way.
21:0916, 16, six. I'm sorry. I'm staring at it right here in front of me.
21:13And it's I said 17, six. It's been a long day.
21:16We had always we had a London game. But I mean, yeah.
21:19And especially like with the way we can get into that.
21:22But I thought D'Amico Ryan's ran circles around Brian Schottenheimer at the end of the first half in this game, which is
21:28why you were down to possessions in the first place.
21:31But yeah, like Dak missed a while Dak actually missed CeeDee on what I think was a sluggo early on in this
21:37game just because the Texans were throwing so much at him and to see them fight through that.
21:42Yeah. Like it looked it looked really cool down the stretch.
21:45And CeeDee had one of the best receiver games of this decade.
21:48First receiver in the second receiver in the 2020s to catch 17 plus passes in a game.
21:53Keenan Allen did it in 2023. And then Antonio Brown did 17 for 284 as a Steeler in 2015.
21:58But I mean, like as as fun as the Cowboys made it look, I really feel like the Texans made him earn
22:04it, which made it so much more satisfying to just to watch as a fan of football.
22:09It was a good combination of great players making great plays.
22:12But also, I really liked a lot of the stuff design wise that Dallas was doing, especially in the second half.
22:18The great players making great plays is George Pickens going up and getting that play action deep shot off his back shoulder.
22:24I mean, he again, not a featured player in terms of targets in this game, but the verticality he gives the offense
22:30is so necessary that the offense just feels so much different when they're willing to push the ball down the field, when
22:36he's creating some of that vertical stretch. And there was the one play I can remember when it happened in the game.
22:42It's in my notes somewhere where CD just gets totally dropped on a crosser where I think it was Stingley was trying to pass him off.
22:49And there's all that space in part because Pickens is yanking out Lasser to that side.
22:53And then Lasser gets Sting for two penalties against Pickens.
22:56And then so even if Pickens wasn't a featured player in terms of how often he was getting the ball thrown to
23:02him consistently there that that was early. It was 1330 or so in the third quarter.
23:06They're running Pickens on a vertical CDs running the crosser and Stingley's trying to pass him off.
23:11And that's that gets to the design element of this.
23:14You look at some of the stuff Dallas was doing with bunches, stacks.
23:17They were doing a lot of things out of two by two where they were in stacks and it was creating miscommunication issues.
23:24There was another play where CD is the number one receiver to the left side.
23:28Ferguson runs the vertical. Stingley takes Ferguson. CD is wide open on the quick out and he gets that.
23:33And then the sluggo is a design play where we feel like they've been sitting on a lot of stuff underneath.
23:39You have Pickens faking the slant, taking it vertical.
23:41Dak puts it on him and that's a huge play in the game.
23:45And so again, I think it's a combination of those receivers are really good.
23:49But I think Dallas with design in the second half created a lot of those completions against a really good defense.
23:54They just picked on all the right stuff. Like you mentioned the crosser that Stingley ends up dropping.
23:59There was a play earlier in the game where the Texans are in like a mug look and it's they have trips
24:05to the right side and they're running like the two fin routes from the inside and then number three is running that vertical.
24:12And just the way that it gets passed off, like Petrie thinks he's supposed to squeeze with number two.
24:17He should probably go help one. Stingley drops it off and there's nobody.
24:20There's nobody covering him. I also thought the Texans do still play a lot of quarters.
24:25I thought the Cowboys did a good job of abusing how much underneath space there is in quarters and like getting like
24:31on the fourth and four where they just run two of those shallows over into that and just abuse that space.
24:37I thought was impressive. They hit a sail route where you get or a sail concept where they had the safety driving down on the sail.
24:44They hit the post over the top, like just so many good beaters in the second half.
24:48Texans played 50% quarters in this game per next gen.
24:51I was glad you mentioned that deck 17 of 23 for 165 on those place.
24:55You know, they're going to play a lot of it.
24:58You better have those beaters ready. And again, I thought that that it's just it's not crazy stuff like Dallas isn't going
25:04to run the sort of offense where you're going to look.
25:07It's not the Niners where you're going to look at some of the wild shit that they're doing, whether it's motions or
25:13design and be like, man, how did they come up with that?
25:16But just consistently creating conflict for a defense that really struggled to communicate in the second half of this game.
25:22And I feel like the Dallas coaching staff deserves a lot of credit for how that went on top of what the receivers did.
25:28Okay. Also, it goes without saying, I guess, given the statistics, but the quarterback as well.
25:33Oh, yeah. Dak was so awesome in this game.
25:35And the game winning drive in particular. Oh, so good.
25:38So good. I let I charted the entire thing because I was so impressed by it.
25:42And like going back to my point about the Texans made this difficult, even if the even if some of the stats are gaudy.
25:49I mean, on the first snap of that, you know, two, two minutes and some change to play two timeouts in the two minute warning.
25:56Jalen Petrie almost picked him off on the very first snap of that drive, looking for a dig to CD two snaps later.
26:02On third and one, Kamari Ramsey, the rookie safety makes an amazing TFL to force a fourth down.
26:07Dak answers that call on the little sit down route to fur.
26:10That was another cool design. It's a bunch to the right.
26:13And because it's a bunch, Ferguson gets lost and he sits down over the ball.
26:17He's wide open and Dak hits him. And then right after that is probably my favorite thing that happened in the NFL
26:23today, which is second and ten hole shot across the, the, the far from the far hash.
26:28Jalen Petrie drops off his guy and is falling back on the route.
26:32So you've got Stingley and Petrie sandwiching the throw and Dak just fits it in between them beautifully, just arrogantly for a 15 yard gain.
26:39And that kind of gets the Cowboys into the territory where, all right, we can start thinking about winning this game instead of tying it.
26:45It was just a nails throw among like 10 that Dak made in this game.
26:50You're talking about the comeback to CD? Yeah. Yeah.
26:52I mean, that, that ball, when that ball comes out, that it's comes out so early.
26:56And that's one where we talk again, a lot design guys, open guys, dropping routes.
27:00There's nothing designing about that. That is a comeback against Derek Stingley one-on-one for CD lamb.
27:05And if that ball doesn't come out with the exact timing that it does, that thing does not get completed.
27:10That's screw you. Here's this. And it's, it's the coolest thing.
27:13That was the thing that CD did so consistently in this game.
27:17There were three or four examples of it. I wish I could pick point to more of them specifically.
27:22It's just in my wall of notes here, but on that play that he makes against Stingley CD being so friendly coming back to the ball.
27:29And when you have a quarterback who is going to test those tight windows, he's going to give you chances.
27:34You have to earn those by playing that way.
27:37You have to make your quarterback right on some of those throws.
27:40And CD just consistently three or four times throughout this game is making catches in some of those tight windows because of
27:46how friendly he's being to the quarterback, how aggressively he's coming back to the ball.
27:50And that was another example of that, Derek. And if you're going to be one of the best offenses in the league,
27:56you have to have both gears, right? Of like, we can scheme it up.
28:00And obviously I think that the Cowboys have mostly proven they can do that.
28:04And then you've got to just be able to win one-on-one football.
28:07And I think that they proved that they could do that too.
28:11And so this was I even looked this up for the other end.
28:14Like this was. In terms of second half that D'Amico Ryan has ever coached with the Texans, it was the third worst
28:20by EPA per play and success rate. And some of that is like sure they got schemed up, but like some of
28:26that is they just got beat one-on-one. Like I just thought that this was all around an incredible performance by the Cowboys.
28:32They got bailed out a little bit, right? You have those two Lasseter penalties on that one drive.
28:37They got a little bit of help, but the Cowboys defense deserves a ton of credit.
28:42Now the Texans are 0-4. They're sitting at 0-4.
28:44And this is one of those games where can't blame it on the offense.
28:48The offense did plenty to win this game. This was a top 10 EPA per dropback of CJ Stroud's entire career.
28:54And we talked about it when they fell to 0-3 that even if the Texans defense hasn't lived up to the reputation,
29:00the offense hasn't been pulling its weight. The offense did enough to win this game.
29:04And like even, you know. They were picking on Reddy Stewart, man.
29:07They were picking on him. CJ made several equally impressive throws in this game.
29:11Like he was dealing. And you're going to give up points and yards to the Cowboys offense when these guys are clicking.
29:17But this was a week where you needed the Houston defense to step up.
29:21And even if you just make one play, they needed to make a play in crunch time there.
29:26And yeah, I didn't think the offense was doing enough over the first three weeks.
29:30They did plenty today. The one play, I found it.
29:33We actually showed a replay of it. But it was a 16-yard catch by CD late in the third quarter.
29:38And Bullock was driving down on the crosser. And unless CD comes back to that ball just very subtly, that pass is not completed.
29:45And the other thing that really stuck out about that play, the one-on-one blocks on that play from Tyler Guyton and Tyler
29:51Booker to give Dak space, to give Dak the room to find a little bit more space in the pocket.
29:56That's been quietly something we haven't really talked about with the Cowboys offense.
30:00Guyton has played really well over the first part of this season.
30:03And I don't know if we ended up talking about him as one of the players who could swing the season, but we should have.
30:10I think we might have. Just because he has been such a, I would say just a question mark over his first
30:16couple years because he's been hurt so much. Like the idea that he's been disappointing or was kind of a lost cause
30:22coming into the season, that I never really understood because we hadn't seen him.
30:26And the injuries were coming, he got hurt in training camp one year.
30:29I mean, it just completely derails what your season is going to look like.
30:33And so for him to be as good as he has and for us to not really be talking about the state
30:39of the offensive line when they haven't had Tyler Smith for the first month of the season, to me, is a definitive win for the Cowboys.
30:46And Schottenheimer said after the game, there's at least a chance Tyler Smith could be back for week five.
30:52So, and even if he's not the fact that they're even planning for that right now and the offensive line has not been an issue overall.
30:59It's like, it's not the reason why you've lost the games you lost big, big win.
31:03The Texans defense is obviously a very good unit.
31:06They've been a very good unit for most of the past month, but Derek, this is one of those moments where you're
31:12sitting here at Owen for, it's probably not going to happen again.
31:15You're probably not going to have the miracle come back that you did last year to claw back into the playoffs.
31:21And it's just a reminder that these defensive teams, it can feel fleeting, man.
31:24It can feel really fleeting. If you don't really take advantage in those moments that you can kind of take it all
31:31the way with one of those teams, and it was probably last year for them to do it.
31:35It's very easy with teams that are built like this for you to look back and think about what if, and realize
31:41that you might've missed your window to do it like driven by that side of the ball.
31:46And it's starting to sadly feel like we might be in that place with the Texans.
31:51And you know, the worst part of it, I thought CJ Stroud was unbelievable in this game.
31:55CJ Stroud was incredible. Like if the whole calculus for this team was that the Texans defense was going to play at a really, really high level.
32:03And then CJ Stroud was going to return to whatever form that we thought he could be like a top 10 ish quarterback.
32:09And then the offensive line was going to get better.
32:12I think long-term, I still have faith that the Texans defense can be like top five, top six by the end of the year.
32:18I think CJ Stroud has been one of the best five or six quarterbacks in the NFL thus far.
32:23But the offensive line and all of the skill player injuries, obviously Nico Collins missing time, Higgins not being able to play,
32:29all of that stuff, that to me has been more damaging.
32:32And because I think if that stuff was even at the most middle outcome for what those things could have been, I
32:39think they could live with what had happened to their defense the first month of the season.
32:43But most of that stuff outside of Stroud alone was in like the bottom 20th percentile for what could have happened.
32:49And I think that that's why they've ended up where they have.
32:52And last year, the defense rose to such a level that they could carry it.
32:56Like you're saying, I think for a defense to rise to that level is really, really hard.
33:01And we thought they might be able to. But again, I think it just speaks to how hard it is to carry
33:07over that type of performance on defense. Like the Seahawks are second in the NFL in EPA per play.
33:12They've done a really good job of maintaining that level.
33:15But it's really, really hard to do that year in, year out.
33:18The Texans were able to do it for multiple seasons in a row.
33:22But I think there's a reason that one of the things we fall back on in talking about how you sustain success
33:28in the league is that as a defense, it's just more volatile from season to season than offense typically is.
33:33And so for them to kind of be on the other end of that volatility, and that doesn't mean going from a
33:39good defense to being a bad defense. It means going from the best defense in the NFL.
33:44And if you look at a lot of the numbers last year, it's Seahawks, Texans, Texans won two.
33:49I think Seattle finished number one in defensive DVOA.
33:51But there are so many just ridiculous rate stats for the Texans defense last year.
33:56And doing that again, over and over and over again is really, really hard.
33:59And when you fall from being that sort of defense that can truly carry you through an entire season to a defense
34:05that's fourth, fifth, sixth, best in the league, just kind of a normal run of the mill, great defense, that gap, you feel it.
34:12And that is the gap that we have felt with the Houston Texans this year.
34:16Unfortunately, even if down to down, they have still been really good on that side of the ball for the most part.
34:22And for Dallas, I mean, this is a game where for you to scrape the two and two here and not fall
34:28another game behind and kind of keep pace in a division where the Eagles look really messy.
34:33The Giants are winning the division, but the Giants have beaten the Dolphins, the Cardinals, and they jumped on the Cowboys in that weird week one game.
34:40It's this is a big win for Dallas, not only for just kind of proof of concept about what the offense can
34:46do against a really good unit, but to stay at two and two and really keep yourself very much alive to be
34:52at the top of the division sooner rather than later is a huge one.
34:56Especially after a sky is falling sort of weak with the way it ended in Rio, which I just never really understood.
35:02I just never really understood that. It's a tough moment for your head coach.
35:06It's an embarrassing moment. I think they've really had to dig themselves out of that hole just from an optics perspective.
35:12But in terms of what the football team looked like against the Ravens team, I think is really good.
35:17I just never understood why we were in panic mode.
35:20It's the way you lose it. Like, you know, we don't we don't have to rehash that during the recap a week later.
35:26But the way that that gets away from you, even if the Ravens are a good team, but the bounce back was impressive.
35:32Let's get to our next one here. The Jacksonville Jaguars win an ugly one 22 to 17 against the Bengals.
35:38I want to talk about this just because it's a reminder that the Jags can win in a bunch of ways.
35:44We've talked so much about the offense. We talked so much about how Trevor has played, what Liam Cohen has done for
35:50them to win this game against the Bengals, where it was kind of sloppy at times.
35:54The offense wasn't moving the ball that consistently down to down.
35:57And you really rely on your defense in two different ways.
36:00The run defense was phenomenal. Again, I mean, their ability to make teams one dimensional and then create one or two turnovers over the course of the game.
36:08This is what contenders look like. Contenders can beat you in a bunch of different ways.
36:12They can lean on different elements of their team week to week, depending on what the situation calls for.
36:17And I think we put the Jags at the table for a reason last year or last week.
36:22I mean, they have enough in kind of every facet to be dangerous and be able to steal these things in different styles of play.
36:29And that is really what stuck out to me today.
36:32And so the Jacksonville Jaguars sitting at three and one winning in different ways against good teams.
36:36You have our attention. I thought overall, like there were so many different impressive parts to me about this game, because this is one of those games where.
36:44Joe Burrow throws for 400 yards, and that seems like something that would be really bad, obviously.
36:49But then I look at how the Jaguars kind of got there.
36:52Obviously, one is stopping the run, so they kind of had to throw.
36:56That was a big part of it. And then the other thing was they played so much like cloud coverage.
37:01And I do think that Joe Burrow was he was extremely willing to throw into that hole in this game like that
37:0710 to 25 yard right on the sideline, that sort of thing.
37:10He actually had nine completions, 11 to 25 yards outside the numbers, which is the most in a game since Dak did it in November of 2023.
37:18But the reason I bring all that up is they were making him either do that or check the ball down.
37:24They were not giving them any explosives over the top.
37:26And they said, fine, we'll give you these 16 yard chunks.
37:29How about you do it 30 times over the course of 60 minutes?
37:33Is that enough to beat us? Because this defense overall all year has been really good in the red zone.
37:38And they were today like they got the pick off of him like they were.
37:43They were able to get some other stops like I thought that they played a very, very thoughtful and impressive bend.
37:48Don't break sort of game plan. And for the most part, executed on it.
37:52And if anything, they should have had another interception that Travis Hunter.
37:55The interception was one thing. It was kind of like thrown a little bit over T Higgins's head, but he jukes T
38:01Higgins out of his shoes after, which I thought was one of the coolest things that happened to the day.
38:07And it just got ripped off because of Eric Armstead got a roughing the passer penalty on it.
38:12So, like, I thought the way that the Jags defense was trying to play and what they accomplished, I thought was really impressive.
38:18Despite what the box score is going to look like, if you just look at Joe Burrow's passing numbers.
38:23I'm glad you brought up the Travis Hunter interception.
38:26My main impression is just the shit that the Jags did wrong.
38:29And I think it's it's a good point. The interception of Joe, I mean, not not a pick.
38:34You expect Joe Burrow to throw in the red zone.
38:37Fantastic job by the Jags and just making him drill down snap after snap.
38:41And eventually he made a backbreaking mistake. But the big stuff that stood out to me in this game.
38:46So Jacksonville got what they drew 13 flags for 125 yards.
38:49Ten of those happened in the first half. They negated the Travis Hunter interception because of the Armstead roughing and that the
38:55Bengals kicked a field goal on that drive. So, like, having that negated directly leads to Cincinnati points.
39:00Basil Tootin has a 44 yard touchdown brought back by a holding flag.
39:03Same drive. They still drive down to the three yard line and Robert Hainsey commits a hold that negates.
39:09They shot themselves in the foot in plus territory a lot in this game.
39:12It was for a lot of field goals as a result of it was more than it was in.
39:18When I framed it earlier, the offense did move the ball.
39:21It was just messy when they got it. They were fine.
39:24They couldn't get out of their own way. Anton Harrison negated a touchdown with a holding flag.
39:28And like I said, they did a lot of shit poorly in this game.
39:32Just sloppy mistakes. And it stood out to me that they overcame it anyway.
39:36Like you said, like to play like this on the road and negate turnovers, negate touchdown opportunities.
39:41Let the Bengals score points when you didn't, you know, when you had chances to snuff out drives.
39:46I thought it was so incredibly impressive. And then what?
39:48The Jags scored their final points of this game with seven minutes to play.
39:52And the Bengals had multiple opportunities to go steal it from them.
39:55And that's what I found myself thinking as the noon window wound to a close where I was like, well, Jags, you do stupid.
40:02You play stupid games. You win stupid prizes. Like even Parker Washington stepping out of bounds on the third and 10 that could have iced the game.
40:09It's like you have given the Bengals so many opportunities that in this league, that is how you lose road games.
40:15And for the Jags to not let that happen, I thought was incredibly impressive.
40:19I mean, shit, even on the final drive, Joe just went boom, boom, boom.
40:23First three plays of the Bengals, like last gas drive were all chunk gains.
40:27And they got down near the red zone and the Jags forced three incompletions.
40:31And then Ray on. Oh, goodness, I lost his name in my notes.
40:34Ray on lane. I think the safety who's not a player like he's never started for them, makes a phenomenal tackle on
40:40that fourth down to get him off the field and get the win.
40:44I just you're not supposed to survive this many mistakes in the NFL.
40:47And I think it speaks a lot of the Jags that they did.
40:51I mean, forcing the turnovers is what flipped the game.
40:54And these are plays where those turnovers are earned.
40:56I mean, the first one, Josh Heinz Allen gets immediate pressure in the interception that Joe Burrow throws in the two minute drill.
41:02And I think that you can explain it away a little bit because he was getting hit as he makes that throw.
41:08I think Jordan Lewis might have picked that ball off anyway.
41:11He was sitting right underneath it where Joe Burrow was trying to go with that ball.
41:16And it's just a reminder that even in a game again where Joe Burrow throws for 400 yards, there were some really nice moments.
41:22Derek, I'm glad you pointed that out about the whole shots.
41:25Like they were playing so much cloud coverage. He was willing to throw the ball into that area.
41:30There are more there are a handful of just bully ball T Higgins back shoulder throws in this game.
41:36Like the Bengals had their moments in the passing game.
41:38But I think there were still enough reminders of what sort of defensive team the Jags are.
41:43If you watch that interception, Antonio Johnson, they're in like a funky cover to look.
41:47And he takes the vertical on that play to take it away.
41:50And that's just something where this team, so rarely do you watch them guarding space in zone coverage.
41:55Like they are just so good at snuffing things out.
41:58And that play was a really good example of it.
42:01And so even if Joe's getting hit on that play, I still think there's a chance Jordan Lewis gets a hand on
42:07that ball or picks it off just because of how well gloved up everything was.
42:11And on the play before that, Antonio Johnson's the one that took away the vertical and that cover to look.
42:16He had a run stuff coming down on third down to make that on second down to make that third down when Joe throws the interception.
42:24And then he had another one that was a five yard loss in the first quarter flying downhill.
42:28So just everybody, Jerry and Jones had a really nice moment in coverage on that drive where the Bengals were down 1610.
42:35Then he was they try to throw another back shoulder ball on second and 10.
42:39He snuffed that out coverage or Hunter did a fantastic job on the out and up to Hinsley or to Tinsley on that third down.
42:45And so, again, even in a game where Joe Pro threw for 400 yards, I know Jamar Chase got hurt early on.
42:52But I still think that you feel the quality of the Jags defense over the course of these games, their ability to
42:58stop the run and then their ability to come up with enough plays in the secondary.
43:02It's just a good unit, in my opinion. It's a really good unit.
43:05And that is, again, why I wanted to bring up them kind of almost on purpose, allowing those whole shots compared to
43:12what we just talked about with the Texans. Right.
43:14Where it's a lot of dropped coverage, it's a lot of beaters for the stuff that they like to play.
43:19It's a lot of Dallas cooking up these special plays for as much as the Bengals were getting a lot of these chunk plays.
43:26It was either, like you said, T Higgins or some of the ancillary guys made really good plays like Myers had a
43:32really nice catch down at the end. Get sick.
43:35He had one. And so some of those guys just made plays.
43:38But it really was the Jaguars just saying, we're going to give you this prove to me that you can do something else to beat me.
43:45And they couldn't. And I thought that, again, for as crazy as the box store looks, I thought this was an incredibly impressive day for their defense.
43:52And like you're mentioning, like teams, when they prove to you they can win in a bunch of different ways.
43:58That is the sign of a contender. And a lot of times the last thing I wanted to say about how weird
44:04this game was, it's only one of 11 games since 2000 where a team has thrown for 400 passing yards and scored fewer than 20 points.
44:11It was just a really weird game overall from that sense, too.
44:14Do you remember the rendition of this game from last year when Joe Burrow got hurt and the Jags allowed a 92
44:20yard go ahead touchdown drive in the dying moments and they couldn't get off the field because of flags and miscommunications?
44:26And ironically, they won 13 games last year, so they wound up being a good team.
44:30But it's so easy to come up with ways to lose games like this when you can't get out of your own way or when you make mistakes.
44:38And yeah, I it matters to me that they want a clunker like this.
44:42Their offense is going to find some moments over the course of the game.
44:46They did it in this game again. The drive to go up 1610.
44:49The they had the fake toss gun from play action to Josh Cameron, who shook off Jordan battle coming downhill.
44:55It was a great yak play. They had a little flash play action where Brenton Strange kind of blocks down for a
45:01second, leaks out to the flat for 11 yards.
45:03And then their drive to go up 2310. It's a really cool design on a chunk plate of Brenton Strange and like a deep rap route.
45:10And then it's like a same side power to Chris Rodriguez for the touchdown with Colvin Lanham pulling.
45:15And it's the Colvin Lanham doesn't really block anybody.
45:18But because of the way that the run hits, Chris Rodriguez essentially goes untouched for 25 yards.
45:23It's actually a great job by Anton Harrison because I say, you know who blocks somebody and that's the reason that Van
45:29Landen didn't have anybody to block because he's supposed to kick it.
45:32They end that on the line of scrimmage, I assume.
45:35And because he crosses Harrison's face, he takes him in the moment.
45:38Which actually I thought that was a cool call from the Jaguars, because what the Bengals had been doing in this game was letting the end slice.
45:45And then they would fire a backer down into the sea gap so that they could get presence there for whatever they
45:51wanted to for some of the split zone stuff.
45:54And then the Jags run the speeder where we're like, we're just going to wash him if he's going to go inside anyway.
46:00Let's take the tackle, wash him all the way down.
46:03And then we're going to get this puller out where we want.
46:06Like that was one of those where you see the best play callers like find some little thing that the defense is
46:12trying to do to them and pick it apart for what was like literally the game winning touchdown.
46:17Like that ends the game for them effectively or at least lets them get into a comfortable position.
46:22Let's get to our next one here. After a week of Drake May panic discourse, the New England Patriots really kind of
46:28like salvage their season in a way by beating the Buffalo Bills today.
46:32Instead of going to one and three, the Pats now sit at two and two.
46:36The Bills are at three and one. Drake May, and we'll talk about it.
46:40A couple of frustrating moments yet again. But for the most part over the course of this game, a performance that looked
46:46a lot more like 2025 Drake May than what we have seen so far this year.
46:50Drake May and the New England Patriots offense after knocking off the Bills.
46:54You once again have our attention. They're back. My favorite son is back.
46:57He that I'm glad you said it was like 2025 because he still did silly shit sometimes in 2025.
47:02The fumbles, the trying to do a little bit too much every now and then.
47:06He's still doing a lot of that. He probably just got away with it a little bit more last year than than
47:12you would normally think a quarterback would be able to.
47:15So he has the strip sack in this game, which the strip sack is funny, too, because one, it's the small hands
47:21like this is going to be a thing with him probably for a majority of his career.
47:26It's just the way that he's built. But the thing about it is he kind of puts himself in those positions where
47:32on that play, the right guard is just getting pushed right into his face.
47:36And he tries to slide up into a pocket that is is non-existent.
47:39And so like he really didn't have a good answer there, but he's like sliding up into like the trash compactor from
47:45Star Wars and just lets himself get strip sack.
47:48And it's like we should maybe avoid that situation if we can, if we know that we're a player that is kind of prone to some of these.
47:56But at the same time, him being able to step up into trash like that and make those plays, it's why he
48:02had five or six incredible throws and plays this game that looked like last year's Drake May.
48:06His ability to find space and time in the pocket showed up over and over and over again in this game.
48:12You guys, you watch Parks and Rec, right? Of course.
48:15There's the episode where I'm an elder millennial. Of course I watched Parks and Rec.
48:19There's the episode where everyone's sick and Rob Lowe is just looking at the in the mirror and just like stop pooping.
48:25That's how I feel about Drake May, where I'm just sitting there and I'm like, stop fumbling.
48:30Just stop putting the ball on the ground. Other than that, other than that play, I am very into the performance that we saw from Drake May tonight.
48:37We set out to parse through this game just because like it's a wild finish.
48:41And what the hell happened in the second half here?
48:44And they were going back and forth down the stretch and rewatching it while we were getting ready for the show.
48:50I didn't go into it because, you know, everything's happening all at once in the early window.
48:54You can't catch everything when there's nine games on at the same time.
48:58I went into it not knowing full well what to expect.
49:01And halfway through the game, I was like, Drake, yes.
49:04Like, oh, my. Like, I felt like this wave of relief watching him make some of these throws.
49:09You know, both of the touchdowns to Romeo Dobbs were fine.
49:12I mean, the first one is the first touchdown to Romeo Dobbs.
49:15Rewatching it. My soul left my body. You did like you yelped very loudly rewatching that.
49:19So we're playing the clip right now. So the Patriots on this play are trying to run a fake screen to the
49:25right where they're getting guys down the field. The Bills glove it up in a lot of situations for a lot of quarterbacks.
49:32That play would be dead if you trying to fake that screen and throw the ball down the field is is taken away.
49:38Instead, Drake may get all the way back to the backside to Romeo Dobbs in a pocket that is condensing and rips that thing for a touchdown.
49:45Like that is an incredible play from him right there.
49:48Like and that he did a plenty of that stuff today.
49:51But that that was the moment rewatching this game where I was like, holy shit, that's an impressive play.
49:56Well, that's what felt like he was back. Like what, Robert or Dave, either of you, what do you think was most
50:02missing from the first three weeks of Drake May compared to last year?
50:06It was like he just wasn't making the I can fit it in there kind of throw.
50:11And he did decisiveness. Yes, if you want to arrogance.
50:13Yes, because like I think trying to fit that Dobbs throw in there, I think that's a little crazy.
50:19But he's willing to do like getting to the backside skinny post like that in the red zone is like that is big boy NFL quarterback.
50:26He had that throw. He was taking a shot from Rousseau as he throws that ball.
50:30He gets obliterated as he lets that thing go.
50:33Yeah. And he was doing that again all game.
50:35And so you get the one moment where you get strip sack.
50:38But like I said, there were 10 other plays where that was worth it to you.
50:43And I think the other one where I really felt that where I was like, oh, he he believes that he can do this again.
50:50And he's playing like he did last year was it was the second quarter, about eight minutes and 15 seconds left.
50:55Matt Collins like starts to bend in over and snaps it back off into the corner.
51:00It's not really open. And Drake is like, I'll get it in there anyway.
51:04And he puts it just over the top for Matt Collins to go make a play.
51:08And it was like, OK, between the touchdown, him making that throw.
51:11He made three or four other ones in this game that were just like tight window have to fit it in there
51:17like this looks like the player that he was for a lot of last season.
51:21And I know the first three weeks were disgusting.
51:24I feel pretty confident believing that this version of Drake May is much more reality than whatever the first three weeks of the season were.
51:31He had a throw and I apologize to our wonderful producer, Katie.
51:34I forgot to give it to her ahead of time.
51:37But like at the very beginning of the third quarter in the stat sheet, it's a six yard game.
51:42But it was second and seven beginning of the third quarter.
51:45And they like they motion Henry across. So it's like three guys on one side and Dobbs just runs like an out to the sticks.
51:52But the whole play collapses and Drake has to bail out of the pocket.
51:56He's on the minus 18 and throws a ball to the 30 on the run and just puts it right on Dobbs,
52:02like just lasers it right to him. And it sets up a third and one.
52:06It doesn't look remarkable on the stat sheet at all.
52:09But I was like, holy shit, that a that was an incredible throw, like on the run, six yards behind the line of scrimmage.
52:15And B, yeah, that's the type of shit that was missing that turns that into an easy third and one instead of third and seven.
52:22And you're getting off the field right at the start of the third quarter.
52:26I thought he did an incredible job buying time just subtly with sliding in the pocket, just find it by himself a little bit more time and space.
52:34And then the other thing just with his legs.
52:36I mean, how many big scrambles did he have in this game?
52:39That was the other element that looked a lot like what he was doing last year.
52:44And so just a really, really impressive game. And we haven't talked about that last drive.
52:48I mean, on that last drive, again, keeps his eyes downfield while he's sliding to the left to find Dobbs for a completion.
52:54Hits a deep wrapper out to Chisholm down the field.
52:57And then the catch that Chisholm makes that one hit a catch to win the game.
53:01I mean, just ridiculous on multiple levels. Yeah, just another one where he's he's buying just a little bit of time to his right.
53:08We're playing it right now. If you guys are watching, just buying a little bit of time to his right.
53:14And then it fits that thing in there. And just what a catch by F and Chesom.
53:18My God, Derek was just watching it in wonderment right there.
53:21I it's it was one of the coolest plays of the day.
53:25And the fact that that is like not supposed to be a player who was like really going to be in their
53:31plans this year is another incredible part of it.
53:33But I was just really excited to see because I think.
53:36The fact, too, that we got this version of Drake May back before A.J.
53:40Brown is back, that makes me feel very, very happy.
53:43And we'll see what he looks like when he gets back.
53:46But I'm glad we got there before A.J. Brown had come back.
53:49As somebody who invested heavily in what the Patriots could be this year, like I said, it was by like the third
53:55quarter of this game, there was just relief washing over my body where it's like, OK, I don't know how many games
54:01the Patriots are going to win, but they don't look like a disaster against a good team.
54:06A team that was three or no heading into this game.
54:09So let's talk about that team. There are a few things that jump out to me about the bills in this game.
54:15Derek, the point the play you pointed out where he gets all the way back to Hollins, that that plays on the backside where Hollins runs.
54:22That little crosser returned. That is deep into the play.
54:25The exact same situation as him getting all the way to the backside on the Dobbs touchdown.
54:29If you look at the stat sheet in this game, next gen had May pressured on 43 percent of his dropbacks.
54:35That's very misleading in terms of what the game actually felt like down to down.
54:39He had a lot of time in the pocket consistently.
54:42So if you actually look at the numbers, even though he was pressured 43 percent of the time, a lot of that is coming deeper into the play.
54:49The bills only had three quick pressures on the day.
54:52Per next gen. Two guys had more than two pressures.
54:55Rousseau and I can't remember who the other defensive lineman was.
54:58It doesn't really matter. Both of those guys that had more than two pressures, their average time to pressure was more than three seconds.
55:05And so the pass rush really was not affecting this game consistently, even if the pressure numbers look good over the course of the game.
55:11That's one area of concern for the bills and just the bills defense and where it stands right now.
55:17Then the other area of concern is they shot themselves in the foot multiple times on offense again.
55:22I mean, Josh Allen gets away with that backhanded flip at the goal line.
55:25There's no there's no reason he got away with that.
55:28There are plenty of guys in range to pick that off as he's doing that.
55:32It wouldn't even been a safety anyway. So him doing that in that moment and then the throw late in the game is just completely unnecessary.
55:39Like you just don't need to do that in that moment.
55:42They just like take a beat here to if you watch it back to.
55:46At the very beginning of the play, he thinks the corner is going to be open.
55:51And I think if he's able to throw it at the very top of his drop, it might be open.
55:56But then he has to evade a rusher. He like spins out of it and he like plans to throw it again.
56:02And there's nothing in his mind that tells him it's been a little bit too long for me to go and try to make that throw again.
56:10And he just tries to make it anyway. And it's obviously incomplete.
56:13Like with the amount of timeouts they had time, they had it was only, I think, second and six or something like that.
56:19Like there was really no reason for him to make some of those plays.
56:23The other thing I think that was weird to me about this game, the first two games of the season, they ran
56:29over everybody out of the same formation, basically, which was like the five man surface to one side, weak zone the other way, all whatever.
56:36They've like gotten away from that. And I don't know if that's like they want to diversify their game plan and their playbook as the season goes on.
56:44And so they're tinkering with stuff. But it's just like their run game the past couple of weeks has been a little
56:50bit worse than the first couple of weeks because I think part of that.
56:53And when you and the way they're running the ball was impressive in the way they felt over the first three games,
56:59there are a couple of things that stood out to me about it and why the offense just felt different.
57:05One, I just thought that Josh Allen was seeing it extremely well over the first couple of games.
57:10That has been less reliable over the last couple of weeks, I would say.
57:14It hasn't felt nearly as clean. You talk about some of the run game stuff.
57:18The other thing is that they were just cooking people off play action.
57:21The amount of play action that they were using compared to what they had done in previous years, they were, I think,
57:27number one or number two in the league and under center play action rate, which even with the construction of their offense
57:33the last couple of seasons and under center run team, they weren't a heavy play action team.
57:38In this game, they used play action on 23 percent of Josh Allen's dropbacks.
57:42He was six of seven for one hundred and three yards and a perfect passer rating.
57:46The average 14.7 yards per attempt. They did it seven times.
57:49They also just didn't run the ball very much in this game, like for a for a game that was never out of whack.
57:56This is James Cook's lowest carry total since the end of the twenty twenty four season.
58:00Twelve carries. And like it was it was working.
58:03You had a sixty seven percent rushing success rate as a team.
58:06They had a fifty three percent rushing success rate.
58:09I thought and I know this is the type of shit that you can do when a team loses a game where
58:15you just nitpick every aspect of it. But for James Cook to feel like an afterthought, in my opinion, for the most
58:21part, and then obviously Dalton Kincaid getting two targets, which Joe Brady himself said, what the hell was I doing?
58:26Why did I do that? That's the other thing that stood out about the first couple weeks is that Dalton Kincaid was
58:32the most important pass catcher on the team. Dalton Kincaid was off to this amazing start and he got two targets in
58:38this game and at least one, if not both of them were like late in the game.
58:43And so, like I said, it's easy to pick that shit apart after the game is already over.
58:48But both of those guys are way too good to be as not implemented as they were in this game.
58:53It's a frustrating moment. I mean, Josh Palmer drops that deep ball that he probably should catch down the field, which was kind of bizarre play.
59:00The weirdest way that I've ever seen someone try to catch a football in my life.
59:05It was so underthrown. He didn't know what to do with it.
59:08Like, it was just kind of a weird play overall, but he almost short circuited his brain the way that ball came out of Josh Allen's hand.
59:15That's the thing. Like, I don't fully blame him for it.
59:18Like, it was coming in weird. Like, he's having to come back 20 yards to go and get that thing.
59:24Like, it was a weird play, but I've never seen someone attack a football the way that he tried to attack it.
59:30Was that the one? I think that was, I mean, yes, he should have caught that.
59:34I'm pretty sure that was the one that got negated by Deion Dawkins holding a guy anyway, right?
59:39Right? Because Deion Dawkins had a rough day. He did.
59:42In this game as well. Like, he had a holding call.
59:45He had a hands to the face call in the red zone.
59:48And Gabe Ackes ran over him on that one play.
59:51I was going to say he got his ass whipped.
59:54Elijah Ponder got him on an early. I think actually, ironically, it was on a play action.
59:58But yeah, not a not a wonderful day for a guy that you can typically count on.
60:03Yeah. The Bills offense is likely going to be fine.
60:06I, the things that worry me are just why the fact that we still have like these couple of Josh Allen moments
60:12in these games that are close is just, it's frustrating.
60:15I mean, it's, he's a phenomenal player. We see what he can do at his best.
60:19And then to have those couple of moments consistently, you just, you wish that just wasn't just a feature of who he
60:25is as a player at this point in his career.
60:28But it's still kind of seems to be. And there's really no explaining that away.
60:32Like for as good as he is game in and game out, the fact that they probably still should have won this
60:38game based on how well the offense played down to down is just doesn't negate the fact that we have a couple of these every single week.
60:45And the defense is struggling right now. Like the mistakes on offense, the fact that you're going to still have a couple of them each week, apparently.
60:53And then what the way the defense is playing, it's frustrating.
60:56But my takeaway from this game is much more about the overall quality from the Patriots offense and the quarterback than it is anything Buffalo related.
61:03I guess outside of, is it time for defense panic, but we're still four weeks into the season with a new coordinator.
61:09Like I'm not there yet. How much does it do for you?
61:12And Derek, I would love your answer on this.
61:15How much does it do for you that Keon Coleman's starting to look like the lights coming on?
61:20Is it too small of a sample size to be excited about that?
61:23Cause he made some dope plays in this game.
61:26I don't think so. Like I do, at least, I don't know.
61:29He's probably never going to be as good as I wanted him to be coming out of Florida state, but if he
61:35can actually be a more functional part of the offense and we can get Dalton Kincaid back in the fold and we
61:41can find ourselves in the run game, which like, even when the bills have been really good at the past, like even
61:47last year, they had a two or three week stretch where the run game was not very good before they had to like refine it again.
61:54And like, that's just going to happen. And I trust that they can find those peaks again.
61:59And so if Keon Coleman is actually going to the one crazy play where he like bobbles it up to himself and
62:05catches it, like that's kind of just randomness. But there were a couple of other actual downfield shots where they're willing to
62:11throw him like those deep posts and stuff like that.
62:14Some of the same like Josh Palmer routes. And that to me is like meaningful signal that they do think that he
62:20can be a useful part of this thing by the end of it.
62:23Bill's played. Dalton Kincaid ran 17 routes in this game.
62:26I just don't understand that. It's they put seven plays of 13 personnel, 13 percent of their plays, which again, is just
62:32such a departure from what they were doing in the early part of the year.
62:36And then the other thing to mention, DJ Moore did get hurt in this game.
62:40So DJ Moore was only out there for about half of the bills passing plays.
62:44But again, I don't I don't think that's the reason that the bills lost this game.
62:49All right. We're going to move on to some of the stuff that was not as exciting in week four.
62:54But first, we are going to take a quick break.
62:57What the? Let's get to a couple of the lesser performances from this week.
63:01We were going to put the Niners in. You have my attention and the Niners deserve that.
63:05Right. The Niners are four. No, we talk about teams winning in different ways.
63:09The fact that they were able to win this game when their offense wasn't rolling.
63:13I think the Niners have proven to be a very good team.
63:17But going back and rewatching the Broncos offense in this game, there are very few teams in the league when they're playing
63:23as the worst version of themselves that are more frustrating for me to watch than the Denver Broncos offense.
63:28And today was kind of an all timer. Bo Nix in this game averaged 4.6 air yards per attempt was negative three average air yards to the sticks.
63:36And there are a couple of plays. I was rewatching it and literally turning around my computer to talk to Dave about
63:42them as I was rewatching them because of how frustrating they were in the moment.
63:46But the Broncos offense, when they're in this mode, kind of gross.
63:49It's pretty disgusting. And today was another one of those games.
63:52And so not trying to take away any credit from the Niners who are four and oh, and we will talk about
63:58them and why they won this game. But the Denver Broncos and their offense.
64:02What the man? You know, the worst part about the Bo Nix, like the the air yards and all that stuff.
64:08It's not that it's just them calling screens or just them calling quick game.
64:11He holds on to the ball on real drop back concepts and then checks it down or he immediately or he's throwing
64:18the swing or he's like immediately just trying to get to the shout.
64:21Like almost like like, you know, we talk about like the Aaron Rodgers, like performative deep balls.
64:26Bo Nix is like performatively holding on to the ball just so that he can get to eventually get to the running back check down.
64:33In front of the ball, like it just feels like that happens all too often where he's not really trying to progress the play.
64:39He's just like, well, they're kind of playing shell coverage.
64:42I guess I'm just going to check this down immediately.
64:45And like I do think that that part is true.
64:47Like the Niners were, I think, playing on top of everything and saying, hey, you got to make these throws.
64:53If you're an NFL quarterback for a team that is supposed to have like AFC championship caliber, you know, aspirations, you need
64:59a quarterback who's at least willing to try it.
65:01And I think the fact that we just have too many of these games and moments where he's not willing to be
65:07aggressive and ambitious until the game is like absolutely on the line in the fourth quarter.
65:12That I think is really, really concerning to me.
65:14And this was they've had some games like this, like, you know, the Raiders game like this felt like that last year.
65:20The commanders game, I think, to an extent, this really might have been the worst one like on that front.
65:26But he averaged 4.6 yards per attempt. He averaged 3.0 time to throw per next gen.
65:30That's hard to do in an NFL game. Like, you wonder how does that happen?
65:34The answer is exactly how this game unfolded for Bonex.
65:37And I think people are going to there. It's a combination of two things at once.
65:41OK, it is a staff that probably leans into a lot of the screens and the underneath stuff way more than they should.
65:48The most frustrating play collectively from this game for the Broncos.
65:51It's third and 10. This was the play that unanimously disgusted all three of us at the same time, like alive in the moment.
65:57It's third and 10 with at the beginning of the third quarter.
66:01They throw a screen. They get eight yards on the screen.
66:04And on fourth and two, they kick the field goal.
66:06Everything about that is confusing to me. Like, why throw the screen on third and 10?
66:11Eight yards on that play. Are you expecting more than what you got there?
66:15Or are you just giving up? It's a gorgeous play call if your goal is to go for it on fourth and two from the plus 22.
66:22The sheer amount of times, though, they're doing that on third and long.
66:26I mean, they did it multiple times again in this game.
66:29And that's often how they operate. So that, I think, feeds into the worst impulses of the offense.
66:34But that's not it. The most frustrating... That was a frustrating play just in terms of process, in terms of decision-making in the moment.
66:40The most frustrating play of the game for me, there was a first and 20 in the third quarter.
66:45And the Broncos are running like dagger. And it's coming open.
66:48And you watch it coming open. And instead of throwing it on first and 20, which you're trying to get a chunk
66:54back, he turns it down and throws the check down right in front of Fred Warner.
66:59And it gets knocked incomplete. I just don't... And there's...
67:01He has plenty of time to throw that ball.
67:04Like, plenty of time. And it just happens way too often.
67:07Where we talk about... Like, Drake may get into the backside of some of those throws.
67:11I don't know the last time I ever saw Bo Nix get all the way back to some of those throws.
67:17Beyond the ambition, it's just... The decisions... The decision is made so early in the play where the ball is going.
67:23If it's not the check down. The only time a decision is happening late in the play is when he's trying to check it down.
67:30And that's why that throw he made to Waddle, I think it was in the Jags game, it felt like seeing a unicorn.
67:36Because it just doesn't happen. And consistently in this game, there were examples like that that just weren't happening.
67:41And it's just a really frustrating offense to watch.
67:44Because the limitations of it are so real in the moment.
67:47And I think that this was another example of that today.
67:50And that's where it gets difficult for me to like...
67:52How much can you untie it from the play calling?
67:55Because I think that is the lasting image in my mind of Bo Nix.
67:59Is you have a dig route coming open. He says, I'm going to throw the check down anyway.
68:04Like, he just does that sort of thing a lot.
68:07And even plays that he makes later in the down are not from the pocket.
68:11He will get outside of the pocket. And he did have a couple of those plays in the game.
68:16But if you're going to play that way, you need eight of them.
68:20Not two of them. And I think that that is kind of the issue that they had in this game.
68:25And then tying it back to the play calling, it's like, well, the offense is trying to get these chunks.
68:31They're calling some of these plays. And so at a certain point, if he's not going to throw them, you just get frustrated.
68:37And you're like, well, f*** it. Then I guess we will call a bunch of swing screens and escort screens.
68:42And we'll just call double slants this play. And we'll throw another RPO.
68:46It's like, we'll boot him out. So he'll throw it.
68:49Like, at a certain point, you just have to call what is going to be thrown.
68:53And I think that that puts the play callers in a really difficult position.
68:57Whereas, like, at least last year, Sean Payton has done this for such a long time with so many quarterbacks.
69:02Davis Webb now having to take this over. And, like, this isn't even an indictment of him.
69:07That's just, like, a difficult position to be in when you are that limited in terms of what the menu is going to be.
69:14That's such a bleak thought. Like, halfway through the game, it's like, all right, call the s*** that he'll throw.
69:19This isn't, this is not working. It's the Broncos offense isn't a nightmare week in and week out.
69:24So, yeah, plenty of games where they look pretty good.
69:27And it's like, oh, man, like, this thing probably does have enough juice combined with the defense for them to do something.
69:33It's just, it's so inconsistent. Like, it just, there are certain games where it just looks like this, where they just refuse
69:39to attack certain areas of the field. They had one completion beyond 10 air yards today.
69:43One. And I think it was outside the pocket.
69:46I don't think it was, like, in structure. Yes.
69:48You can't live offense that way if you're not going to throw down the field in the pocket.
69:53It's just not going to work. Three completions on the day for Bo Nix beyond the line of scrimmage and between the numbers.
69:59And those completions gained 14 yards. The Niners do deserve some credit.
70:03I think there are a few different defensive players that stuck out to me.
70:07Part of this is Diamant or Lenore eating up Courtland Sutton one-on-one on the outside and taking away those opportunities.
70:12Because that's where Bo Nix wants to go with the ball, right?
70:15I have my one-on-one on the outside. I'm going to take it.
70:19And Lenore consistently was winning in those situations throughout this game.
70:22Malik Mustafa had a beautiful PBU late in the second quarter, driving downhill on Evan Ingram.
70:26Even that throw, though, is late. And so that's the reason that he's able to get in and play that, even come
70:32into play and make a play on that ball.
70:34So the Niners defense does deserve plenty of credit.
70:37Lenore, specifically, I thought, really did a good job while he was playing on the outside before Upton Stout got banged up and he had to move inside.
70:45And then on offense, if you keep the game close, even if you're doing a relatively decent job against this team, considering
70:51how they move the ball in the first few games, they're going to find opportunities.
70:55Like, they're going to hit four or five of these over the course of the day.
70:59And that's exactly what happened. I mean, you talk about being able to get to the backside and hitting deep inbreakers.
71:05The one that Purdy hits the Evans late in the second quarter, that thing gets let go so, so early for him to make that completion.
71:12That's the drive where they end up kicking a field goal.
71:15It's the same drive where they had that really sweet use check slant off the fake screen, which was an incredibly cool design.
71:21So that's, again, a couple of those moments. He finds use check after extending in the fourth quarter on that same drive.
71:27It's like a deep curl to Mike Evans. And then the design to set up the touchdown for 17-6 was like a
71:33Mike Evans insert play action where he gets lost on the left sideline, which is really, really well done.
71:39And then obviously when you can spit a middle screen to your tight end and have him take it 60 yards for
71:45a touchdown, it's a good place to be as an offense.
71:48The tight end coming off of an ACL injury, by the way, like the fact that he has Achilles, Achilles, sorry.
71:53Achilles eight and a half months ago. The fact that he has as much gas as he does is completely insane to me.
72:00And I think what the other really frustrating part about the Broncos offense, the way that they were calling it and playing
72:06it, I thought for three quarters, that Broncos defense played about as well as you can hope against the 49ers.
72:11They were limiting. They made them. They turned them into like an average offense, which like if you can do that to
72:17Kyle Shanahan and this offense like that is you take that every single time.
72:21Like I thought some of the stuff they were trying to limit explosives in the run game was good.
72:26Stuff to really get that to pop. The passing game was really not good until the fourth quarter.
72:31Like they were doing a really good job of they were still getting away with man coverage.
72:36And even that might have only fallen away because Patrick Chetain gets hurt in this game and Riley Moss was questionable and
72:42like ended up being hurt in this game. And so the fact that they squandered what was like to me, I thought
72:48a really impressive Broncos defensive performance, because the one thing I want to give them credit for there, this is a Niners
72:54team that especially in the run game, all they want to do is how can we hit the sea gap?
73:00How can we get this thing to stretch? How can we go over there?
73:03And I thought the Denver Broncos consistently did a good job of finding ways to fire somebody in there.
73:09Like there was a third and one where they fire Hufanga in their forces to play to cut back to the middle.
73:15Well, that's where the Niners don't have an advantage in the run game against this team.
73:19And it gets stopped and they have to end up punting.
73:22And so I thought they played really well. But like you said, eventually the title wave is going to hit if you
73:28let them hang around in a game like this.
73:30I do want to say to that point, Bo Nix didn't play well.
73:34I'm not defending that aspect of it, but you lose Sertan and Moss in this game.
73:38They lost Pat Bryant, too, after like one of their best offensive plays of the day.
73:43I think they got screwed a little bit. I don't agree with the Marvin Mims turn like the muff punt call.
73:49Oh, yeah, that's true. I don't I don't agree with what happened there where like, yes, his his wrist hit down before his elbow.
73:55And if you slow it down, you can tell that maybe that's a fumble.
73:59But by the spirit of what was going on there, I think he's down.
74:03And so do you want to play a drag them to hell game where you win nine to six and it looks that ugly?
74:09Absolutely not. But what they were doing against the Niners shorthanded was incredibly impressive.
74:13And San Francisco was punting out of their own red zone when that happened.
74:17And all of a sudden they get to the plus twenty eight because of a special teams gaffe, which in my humble opinion, wasn't actually a gaffe.
74:24And that changes the whole dynamic of this thing from the late third quarter onward.
74:29So if I had to guess, I think the Niners find a way to win anyway, because they're often they were just a more well-rounded team.
74:36But I do think that it sucks that that break is sort of what tipped the scales and got the snowball rolling towards San Francisco.
74:43That I do agree with. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's that's one where, again, we've said it in real time.
74:48The letter of the law, I can understand why it's a fumble.
74:51But you watch that play a thousand times. The forearm probably touches down and it's probably down.
74:56I in the spirit of what was happening, I don't think that should be a turnover, but it is what it is.
75:02Let's get to our next one here. Speaking of ugly games, the Rams somehow beat the Eagles today.
75:07Twenty four to twenty, despite them trying to lose that game in a myriad of ways which we can talk about.
75:13Part of it is the Eagles inability to convert any third down ever.
75:16Ninety three total yards for Jalen Hurts, who goes twelve of twenty seven.
75:20The Eagles averaged three yards per play. They go oh of twelve on third down.
75:24Honestly, this entire game, what the was happening? It was raining early on, too, and like through a lot of this game,
75:30which like this game was disgusting in about every way that a football game could possibly be disgusting, because you get the
75:36worst version of the Eagles who are already down.
75:39Like obviously, Devonta Smith did not play in this game.
75:41Dallas Goddard has has been missing. Saquon Barkley early on in this game gets banged up.
75:46And so that's not necessarily excuse making, but it's like Lane Johnson didn't play in this game.
75:50We know the land of Dickerson was hurt. You really felt that over the course of the day.
75:55It was rough. Like this was basically not the Eagles offense that you think that they are when you just look at the depth chart in week one.
76:03And so I'll give them like a little bit of grace for that, but still arriving at a point where not only
76:09over twelve on third down, but only one of four on fourth down.
76:13So you had sixteen conversion down opportunities and converted one of them like that is that is going to lose you the
76:19football game every single time, which the proof of that is.
76:22They shouldn't have. They should have won. That's the crazy part about this.
76:25The Rams played a game that absolutely did not deserve to win either.
76:29And they just in the fourth quarter were able to buckle up with the offense and like were able to drive down.
76:35And like I just thought this was another game where by halftime I was like, man, it does not feel like the
76:41Rams are going to be able to turn this around.
76:43It doesn't feel like their day weather's bad. Stafford doesn't look right.
76:47Devontae Adams can't catch the ball today and the Eagles just kept letting them hang around, which that's the last thing I want to say.
76:54The best versions of the Eagles feel like they keep teams in it and then finally choke them out in the fourth quarter.
77:00The worst version of the Eagles is they stumble around in games they should win until the fourth quarter and then they somehow just lose it all.
77:07Saying they felt like the Rams are going to lose it at halftime with 1416 left in the game.
77:13Stafford throws incomplete to Tyler Higby on fourth and eight.
77:15The Eagles run the ball nine times in a row.
77:18Nine times. Thank you, Mr. Rooney. Okay, including a scramble.
77:21So that was a called pass, but Jalen Hurts takes off.
77:24They get down inside the five. It's third and two.
77:27On that third and two play, Hurts bobbles the handoff because Cam Juergens hits him while going in motion.
77:32He hits him while he's trying to hand the ball off.
77:35So there's no handoff that even happens. If you look at that play, you have three Eagles getting insane movement on one Rams defender.
77:41It's probably going in for a touchdown. Instead, it's fourth and two.
77:45Byron Young gets a pressure on that play. The Eagles do not score.
77:48And then the Rams, the door is open. They go down.
77:51They score to make it 20 to 17, including some just ridiculous plays.
77:55He made a back shoulder play against Jihad Campbell.
77:57That's just a crazy catch. Double move by Puka, who does a great job coming back to like a severely underthrown ball with Stafford's getting hit.
78:04And then Kyron Williams is short on a second down completion.
78:07It should be third and one. The Eagles get a personal foul.
78:11Rams go down and score. Then it's 20 to 17.
78:13Game is now very much in play. And the Rams somehow claw their way back into it.
78:18And so even with everything that we're talking about with the offense, if that play doesn't happen, where Cam Juergens hits Jalen
78:24Hurts when he's trying to hand that ball off on third and two, there's a very good chance the Eagles win this game.
78:30That's how many mistakes the Rams made. We're having the other version of the Eagles conversation.
78:35Yeah. To Derek's point, there's two ways this go.
78:37We're doing the what the fuck just happened. How did you lose this game?
78:41How did you not convert a third down? There's an alternate universe where the Eagles win this game.
78:46What? Twenty seven to ten. And it's like we look like dog shit and we beat the Super Bowl favorites by three scores.
78:52And we're not going to apologize for anything, which is something we've done a lot after Eagles games.
78:57And for it to be what was their like their their win probability was 96 percent to be at a 96 percent
79:03win probability for a vintage, ugly, dominant Eagles win.
79:06And then get the other version of an Eagles game in such a short amount of time was a crazy swing.
79:12The other little bit about the Rams. They tried to give you back the game at the end in the exact way
79:18the Rams always do, which is they they get the game to within three.
79:21They make that score, whatever, whichever touchdown that was.
79:24And then they kick the ball out of bounds and it gives the Eagles the ball at I think the 40.
79:30I'm like, how are we making mistakes like this?
79:32Obviously, Miva said even he missed like a 48 yarder early in this game, too.
79:36So it's like in all of the ways that the Rams typically give up games that they should win, which is like
79:42by the special teams and doing stupid shit at the end.
79:45They still tried to do that. And the Eagles still couldn't get over the finish line.
79:50Keep harping on it, Derek. I'm not going to let this Ram special team shit go.
79:54I've got it. I've got it all. Well, first of all, the Rams also tried to give it away on the last
80:00drive because Stafford tried to throw a pick to Jonathan Jones that he dropped.
80:04So that didn't happen. Throw that on the pile.
80:06Rams Stafford throws a pick on the first drive on an overthrow.
80:10Second drive, I think Davis Davis Allen gets a hold to make it second and 16.
80:14They force a foot field goal. Third and one Morrow Jomo blows up a play by crossing Coleman Shelton's face.
80:20Britton Covey returns a punt to the Rams 17 yard line with six and a half minutes left in the second quarter.
80:26So the Eagles have to go 18 yards for a touchdown.
80:29That was the Darius Cooper mossing a guy play, which could have been a pick easily.
80:33OK, Stafford overthrows Puka for an interception with 19 seconds left in the half.
80:37The Eagles then score on that drive following a pass interference.
80:40That was a swing that probably could have changed the entire game.
80:43Stafford misses Devontae Adams on a double move with 13 minutes left.
80:46Harrison Meeves misses a field goal with seven minutes left in the third quarter.
80:50And then they kick the ball out of bounds at the end of the game.
80:54I just like what in any world where the Eagles offense can do anything in this game, the Rams lose and should
81:00lose based on how ugly this thing was for them for most of it.
81:04Decisively, they lose. I mean, they almost lost decisively in this version of the game.
81:08I Jalen Hurts did not play well. Like there were moments.
81:11There was one very similar to the bone next play where Jalen Hurts just has a wrapper out coming wide open at
81:17one point in the game and just refuses to throw it.
81:20And that that stuff is drives me crazy. But when you look at the environmental factors with the Eagles offense in this
81:26game, it's hard to have any sort of shot.
81:29Fifty seven point six percent pressure rate for the Rams per next gen on a sixty one percent blitz rate.
81:34They played man 40 percent of the time in this game.
81:37Hurts goes four of 11 for 46 yards on that on those plays.
81:41The Eagles finished with a thirty six percent offensive success rate with the state of the offensive line with no Devontae Adams.
81:47Like it it was going to be really, really tough sledding for Jalen Hurts no matter what.
81:52So I I'm not going to lay this at his feet.
81:55This is just an overall offensive failure from Philadelphia in part because of how shorthanded they were.
81:59But that's what it took for the Rams to claw their way back into this thing because of how many self-inflicted wounds the Rams had.
82:06Imagine Sean McVay's internal monologue at like multiple points.
82:09Did you see him after the cam curl play?
82:11Yes. He lost his mind. I think that was a situation where late in the game I felt I'm I'm sure after
82:17that Higby play happens, there are a lot of thousand yard stairs happening on that Ram sideline.
82:22And I will say that's why they deserve credit for those last couple drives for them to actually pull themselves back into this thing and win it.
82:29They deserve credit for that. But for 50 minutes, this thing looked really, really ugly yet again.
82:34Like this team is out of sorts. Even if they manage to win this game, they are out of sorts.
82:39Absolutely. And all but also if we haven't mentioned it by name, the second and goal run that Kyron had to take
82:45the lead like he had a lot of great plays in this game.
82:49It was it was a top three play of Sunday.
82:52I know we've said a lot of things that happened today were great, but the way he just mossed half of Philly's
82:58defense to take the lead was it was so cool.
83:00The stiff arm to get Jeremiah Trotter on the ground.
83:03But then also as that's happening, he puts his foot in the ground and gets upfield and makes Cooper Dejean miss and then shakes off two more guys.
83:11It's an awesome play. He was really good in the passing game today.
83:14Like he was a crucial player. Kyron Williams was for the Rams to win this game beyond him scoring that final touchdown.
83:20And you felt Puka too. If Puka doesn't play in this game, the Rams have absolutely no shot.
83:25All right, let's get to the last one here.
83:28The Chicago Bears beat the New York Jets 23 to 12 today.
83:31And I'm not saying that usually in when we do teams in this segment, it's teams that should know better, should be better.
83:37I'm not saying that the Jets losing this game is something they should have done or we should be mad at the Jets losing this game.
83:45The WTF framing on this is mostly just of how really weird of a game it was.
83:49Like what the was this game? The Bears had more first downs than the Jets ran plays in this football game.
83:55That is a real thing that happened. What a bizarre game all the way across the board.
84:00Do we know if that's ever happened before? Like where a team had more?
84:03There's got to be someone who knows this information somewhere.
84:06There are so many stats coming out of this game where I'm dying to know what the precedent is.
84:11And I just I'm sure somebody will get to the bottom of it.
84:15But putting the show together on Sunday afternoon, I just didn't have enough time.
84:19But just what a ridiculous game. And I we needed to highlight it because if you're not if you're not watching everything
84:25closely, you're like, oh, the Bears covered with a backup quarterback at home against the Jets.
84:29For 23 points. Whatever. Oh, this wasn't interesting. And honestly, that might have been how I felt about this if I didn't
84:35work on a show in Chicago with Bears fans.
84:38And this game was like front and center all day during the early window.
84:42And you look up and you're like, holy shit, have the Jets had the ball at all in this entire game?
84:47Yeah, they had it for 17 minutes. Which I did look that I was able to get to get that stat.
84:5317 minutes and 15 seconds of possession is the fourth lowest total of the last decade.
84:57The Josh Johnson commanders had less than that in 2018.
85:00Ironically, the Alex Smith Chiefs had a lower time playing the Jets.
85:04And then this didn't register for me. Tyler Shuck's debut against the Rams last year.
85:08The Saints only had the ball for 16 minutes and seven seconds.
85:11That tracks every Rams drive was just a march to the end zone.
85:14But rare air in terms of just not having the football.
85:18The New York Jets did not have the football in this game.
85:21Second time in the Super Bowl era that a team's had more first downs than their opponent had played.
85:26Second time in the Super Bowl era. So the last 56 years.
85:29That's unbelievable. I'm also going to guess, too, the other game was in like 1978 or something ridiculous.
85:34Without having known that, that's my that's my guess.
85:37It's not this is not historic. But as far as this season goes, the Bears had nine point eight nine plays per
85:43drive in this game, which is the most of any game by any team this season.
85:47And that's also if you remember, like they had the DeAndre Swift fumble, which was only like two or three plays into one of those drives.
85:54And then the Tyson Bayesian inner Tyson Bayesian interception, which was also only a couple of plays into one of those drives.
86:00So like every time they didn't turn the ball over, it was like a 12 play drive.
86:05And most of them scored some amount of points.
86:07How did they only score 23 points? Well, they had a fourth.
86:11They had a failed fourth and one on the goal line.
86:14And they didn't have that many explosive plays. I will say they got bailed out a few different times in this game.
86:20I mean, the illegal hands to the face, I believe, on the screen that was intercepted by Trevandre Sweat.
86:25That's one that you got bailed out. There were a couple other defensive penalties.
86:29Tyson Bayesian threw two more interceptions that got wiped off.
86:32The first one's a free play. That ball's not getting thrown unless there's an offsides.
86:36That one, that's not. The idea that that should count in any way, even optically, doesn't make any sense to me.
86:41And then even the third interception that he threw that, I guess it was fourth.
86:46The fourth interception that he threw, three of which did not count, was a defensive hold where the player he was trying
86:52to throw the ball to absolutely got held. And so there were two, I think, legitimate Tyson and Bayesian interceptions in this
86:58game, one of which was wiped off. A couple other plays that drives get extended because of defensive penalties.
87:03Even when you take all that into account, the just ownership the Bears offense had of this game, essentially from the start
87:09with a backup quarterback in again, it's just kind of remarkable.
87:12Like their ability to look like this on offense and just be this efficient, this, I mean, they looked like a machine.
87:18I mean, just the ability to run the ball to the degree that they did.
87:22They ran, they gained over five, they gained 492 yards of offense.
87:25They ran the ball for what? Like 250 again?
87:28I thought it was 232. 230. They ran the ball for 232 yards.
87:31And the offensive line is what jumped out to me today.
87:34The offensive line was excellent in this game. The way they ran the ball, but also the pass protection just throughout was so, so good.
87:41Every skill position player chipped in in some way.
87:44Obviously, Mononga is a monster day. Odunza had a couple really nice moments.
87:47Burton and Loveland got involved throughout this entire game.
87:50I mean, just the ability to control the game in this way two weeks in a row with backup quarterbacks playing.
87:55And, you know, the Jets are the Jets. I think that people are going to look at the logo and be like, oh, this isn't impressive.
88:03The Jets have been a solid football team so far this season.
88:06And so for the Bears to have this thing in hand, seemingly the entire time and truly just have a handle on
88:12the game from the start is impressive. And they've done that two weeks in a row against backup quarterbacks or with backup quarterbacks.
88:18I didn't think about this, but you see weird scheduling quirks like this sometime where the Jets have now played three quarters
88:24of the NFC North all in a row. They took the Packers to overtime.
88:28We talked about how fun the game was against the Lions last week and all the cool shit they did in that game.
88:34And so, yeah. And obviously they beat Tennessee to open the season like they've been a pain in the ass.
88:40And the Bears is the most like scoreline. The final score wise.
88:43It's like the most uninspiring score you've ever seen.
88:46But the Bears just beat the shit out of these guys.
88:49And like to do that two weeks in a row with quarterback three and quarterback two.
88:53I'm not like we're not talking about them and you have my attention.
88:57I'm not ready to go that far. But like it it registers with me like that is incredibly impressive and something you
89:03should have an eye on for when Caleb Williams is available again.
89:06I mean, that stupid, ugly game against the Vikings is the only reason this team isn't four or no with like some pretty impressive wins on the board.
89:14Well, that's the backup quarterback performances have been good.
89:16The one time we saw him play not against Brian Flores in a rainstorm, they scored 60 points.
89:21It's going to be really good when that guy comes back.
89:24I knew the offense could have this sort of gear and the fact that they played this well with the backup quarterbacks
89:30is impressive in an entirely different way. What the defense did today, that to me and what the defense did in the second half against the Eagles.
89:37I know the Eagles are kind of unraveling the Jets.
89:40We did the trivia this week. The Jets were top 10 in EPA per dropback coming into this game and for them
89:46to just not be able to move the ball.
89:49They went 0 and 7 on third down. What the defense Dennis Allen was doing some funky stuff on third down, like
89:55some of the pressures that they're sending the way the defense is playing overall.
89:59I don't know how good they are, but four games into the season, the Bears are fourth in the NFL.
90:04And EPA per play on defense. Fourth fake stat.
90:06I'm sorry. I can't get there. It's all driven by what the Falcons a little bit last year.
90:11We're like you. You kind of knew that this was like a little bit made up and not real and that they
90:17were having to match your fan manufacture stuff and do a bunch of crazy stuff and like getting a couple of turnovers every now and then.
90:25And the difference between them and last year's Falcons is this team has whatever the Bears offense might be on the other end of it.
90:31And so if they can actually even if they're fake good and can do some of this stuff.
90:36And I'm glad you mentioned that Gino and the Jets like the Jets offense has been fine.
90:41They're a good barometer team. The NFL has always got a handful of these at a given time.
90:46And if you can do that against like what the Jets offense has been, that probably means something.
90:51What's carried them is that they are number one in the NFL and EPA per play on third down.
90:56And some of that is what happened today and what happened in the Eagles game.
91:00The Eagles didn't have one for all the second half and the Jets went over today.
91:05But what the Bears some of the stuff that Bears are doing on third down is really good.
91:10Like some of the pressure stuff that Dennis Allen is doing.
91:13We compare them Derek to like the early Chiefs with the early Spags Chiefs teams.
91:17Can they be like that? And so even if they're not fourth in the NFL and EPA per play type good, they
91:23were seventh on a third down last year. They're first this year and overall their 14th and success rate.
91:28This doesn't have to be the sixth best off defense in the league.
91:31This has to be like the 16th best defense in the league and they're doing enough right now.
91:36They've allowed the opponents since the Panthers game. Obviously, the Panthers got them pretty good.
91:40Not that it mattered, but their last three opponents are five of 29 on third down.
91:45Now, the question is like the Eagles are obviously in hell offensively right now.
91:49And then it's the Carson Wentz Vikings in a rainstorm and whatever you think about the Jets.
91:53I'm just it's been incredibly impressive, especially considering our concerns about the Bears.
91:57Defense. I'm OK waiting a little bit to see more.
92:00I have no idea how real it is. I just know that what it's looked like, especially over the last two weeks,
92:06is like, OK, like this is something that you can build on.
92:09They blitzed five times in this game. They got pressure on four of those plays and they got clean pressure on four of those plays.
92:16Like Dennis Allen is cooking in some of these high leverage moments, even if I think we still have some concerns overall
92:22about the personnel quality on this team. The more important part to me and maybe the thing that will keep it from
92:28mattering is it just it defies all of my expectations about pro football that you can run for 230 yards with your backup quarterback in the game.
92:35I mean, I know Malik Willis did it for the Packers last year, but that's a different story from Tyson Bajan and Case Keenum.
92:42The Bears have accounted for 20 percent of the 230 plus yard rushing performances dating back to when Ben Johnson got there.
92:48They've done it four times with Ben as the head coach.
92:51No one else has done it more than twice.
92:53The rest of the league combined has 16. It's unbelievable how often the Bears are just running at will.
92:59And to be able to do it without your preferred quarterback is it's not supposed to work that way.
93:04So, yeah, I don't I don't think the defense doesn't need to be that good.
93:08So I think it's fair to be encouraged. I was hoping they would just hang on when Caleb Williams wasn't playing.
93:14I didn't expect them to be winning these games by multiple scores while he was sitting on the bench.
93:19It's a nice place to be considering how shitty things felt at the end of week to one thing.
93:24One more thing we do have to mention in the spirit of WTF.
93:28Of course, this is the game where the Jets break their no interception streak.
93:32We had four of them. Only one of them counted.
93:34But hey, that's one more than counted for the entirety of the 2025 season.
93:38So it's a starting point. Yeah. I mean, again, it's one of those should have stood and test page and did throw one interception that did count.
93:46The ball security and just the overall turnover questions like that has to get better against teams that are better.
93:51But overall, I think you got to be pretty encouraged by what the Bears did.
93:55All right. Let's talk about what made us feel romantic about football in week four.
93:59I mean, this thing was a thing of beauty.
94:02I really love when we have players that have been in the league for a while and for whatever reason, a new
94:08play caller happens or the situation changes just a little bit.
94:11And we see that player unleashed and unlocked in a way that they never really have been before.
94:16And the guy that is like that for me this year is watching what Zay Flowers has been for the Ravens.
94:21Zay Flowers is a good player. Zay Flowers has been a good player for a while for Baltimore.
94:26But the tweaks in his usage this year have made him like borderline unstoppable.
94:30So Zay Flowers this season had another. He had a huge game today, by the way.
94:35I don't have the stats in front of me.
94:37I probably should have the stats in front of me for what he actually did in this game.
94:42It was all in the first half because that's what he keeps doing.
94:46I was going to say all before halftime. Eight catches, 118 yards and a touchdown.
94:50OK, you had 30 routes total. So 10 targets, eight catches, 118 yards.
94:53Here's some season long stats for Zay Flowers. Stat number one.
94:56He's averaging 6.3 yards per route run this year.
94:596.3. Best in the league type numbers are usually flirting with four for anybody that's not aware.
95:03Four is like all times. Hyper elite. Anything over three is offensive player of the year shit.
95:086.3 yards per route run. OK. He's been in the slot on 57% of his routes this year per next gen.
95:14That's it was that's compared to 31% last year.
95:16So he has been a primarily slot player for them.
95:19Some of that is driven by the fact that they're using more three receiver sets in order to put him in those
95:25situations compared to what the Ravens used to do.
95:27But this is obviously a very conscious choice from the Ravens coaching staff to put him in there.
95:32He's run 32 routes from the slot this year.
95:35He has been thrown the ball on 16 of those plays.
95:38So he has a 50% target rate from the slot.
95:41He is averaging 8.8 yards per route run on those plays from the slot.
95:44He's averaging 1.3 EPA per target. He's gained a first down on 37% of his slot routes.
95:49Last year, Zay Flowers had 16.3 receiving EPA out of the slot.
95:52This year, he has 21. And he hasn't even played all of these three games, by the way.
95:57He's played three games. That's what I'm saying. He hasn't played the entire season to this point.
96:02He hasn't finished two of his three games, and he missed a game with the hamstring injury.
96:07Like, we're talking an incredibly small sample size. That's the one thing I wanted to note was he's run among among the
96:13guys at the top of the league because Zay is one of six receivers with 350 yards so far this season.
96:18Among all of, you know, that company, he's run like 60 to 80 fewer routes than all of those guys.
96:24And the rate stats will drop as he plays more.
96:27But the vision that the staff has had for him and the way that they were like, this is how we're going
96:33to use this guy and we're going to cook people has been awesome.
96:36And you saw it last week against Dallas, and they did it again today.
96:40His touchdown today. They have him isolated on a linebacker coming out of the slot.
96:44The guy has absolutely no shot. He takes it to the house.
96:48And then the other awesome play that they ran, he runs like a little sail and up from the slot for a huge chunk gain.
96:54Just this. And they said it in the summer.
96:57Declan Doyle at one point was like, this dude is a star.
97:00And we are going to, I think, show people that he is a star and the just crystallized vision they have had
97:06for how they want to deploy him and what it has looked like over the first four weeks is awesome stuff.
97:12It has been so incredibly fun to watch. I think a lot of it has been the usage.
97:17I also think a year ago or two years ago, you couldn't have used him this way.
97:22I don't think he was good, good enough at some of the things that like requires you to play in the slot.
97:28Like, I think the way that he tracks and comes back to the ball now is better than it's ever been at any point in his career.
97:35And I also think the way that he like when he sees grass in front of him as a yak player and
97:41goes is better than it's ever been at any point of his career.
97:45And maybe that's partly fueled by like they're using him more that way in practice in the game plans.
97:50And so he's getting used to that sort of stuff.
97:53But I do think that he's gotten better at that stuff that when previous versions of the Ravens tried to do that
97:59with him, you had some like good moments, some bad moments.
98:02But it did not feel as consistently dominant as it's been, especially underneath.
98:05And then you mentioned that like sale out and up play.
98:08I thought the ball tracking on that was even really impressive, which I think down the field, he's always been like the
98:14pure vertical stuff has always been a little bit up and down.
98:17His vertical stuff has always been like he gets to 20 and he snaps off a dig or he snaps off an
98:23outbreak or a comeback, something like that. But the pure vertical stuff like that where he can really go and track it, sometimes that's been up and down.
98:31So the fact that he showed improvement on all of the things that like even two years ago, I was like, man,
98:37I just don't know if he's that kind of player.
98:40That to me is the most impressive part of all of this.
98:43I and I said this leading into the summer and I felt better about it when I dug deeper on it.
98:49But anecdotally, I didn't always trust Zay Flowers as like a down the field guy.
98:53He's just some of the drops and the miscues just loom large in the mind.
98:57But he looks so impressive this year. Like the 52 yarder he had in this game.
99:02It's not like the coolest catch you'll see on a Sunday.
99:05But just the downfield tracking like over the shoulder, arms extended.
99:08It just looks very polished and very advanced. And speaking of that, like when I dug deeper into it and what he
99:14did last year, I felt a hell of a lot better about Baltimore locking him up on the deal they did, considering
99:20how much time was left on his contract reaction to that contract coming into the season.
99:24Yeah, I probably wasn't very happy. And I remember talking about it with Derek when it immediately happened.
99:29I was like, oh, that's that's a lot of money.
99:32And then I was like, OK, well, he still has two years on his deal and he was actually like top 10 in yards per route run.
99:39This will probably be fine. It won't probably be anything.
99:42It looks fantastic through a month of the season.
99:44They've used him in a way that makes him worth every single one of those dollars.
99:49And it does really help that quarterback is playing is playing pretty lights out right now.
99:53He's back, I would say. The scramble that he had, though, he tweeted out the play.
99:58The scramble that he had in this game. Like just that, that is a there is no one in the league for
100:04whom the game slows down in the way that it does for Lamar Jackson.
100:07It is. I want to do something about this at some point this year, like why some quarterbacks are really adept at
100:13throwing the ball to the middle of the field and why some are not.
100:17And I think some of it is just like spatial awareness.
100:20His spatial awareness is just on a completely different level.
100:23Like his ability to feel and understand where defensive players are and where they're going to be when guys are around him,
100:29when there's traffic down the field in certain areas he's trying to access as a thrower.
100:33Just an unbelievable player. And I obviously gets hurt in this game.
100:37It sounds like he's probably going to be OK.
100:39They play the Falcons on Sunday night. I believe Jesse Minter said at one point that he probably could have come back in if needed.
100:46So hopefully nothing long term for Lamar Jackson, because that connection with him and Zay Flowers has been something to behold this season.
100:52And it is plenty worth being romantic about. All right.
100:55That is all we've got for week four. Like we mentioned tomorrow on the hangover.
100:59Lions Panthers, Seahawks Chargers and Giants Cardinals. We will be hitting all of those.
101:03I know the Vikings are undefeated. I don't still know what to make of them.
101:07They beat the they beat the Dolphins today without scoring a touchdown.
101:10Yeah, they beat the Bucs who were unraveling last week.
101:13Like, well, I'm sure we'll talk plenty about the Giants.
101:16We have a midweek show this week about the Vikings.
101:19We have a midweek show this week where we'll hit the Vikings.
101:22So it's that the Vikings talk will be coming.
101:24It's just it's a very weird for now. I don't know what to make of it.
101:29Well, and we can't do Dolphins on the hangover every week.
101:32Like the whole point of us making some of the changes to the hangover this week is so we don't or this year.
101:38So we don't do the same team every single week the way that we did last year at points.
101:43For now, that is all we got. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening.
101:47We'll talk to you soon.

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