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Week 3 Hangover: Brian Flores is a menace, Mason Graham comes alive, and the Giants win ugly

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

54 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Sep 29, 2026
Published
Tue, September 29, 2026
20
Player insights
17
Players mentioned
Topics
Baker MayfieldDeshaun WatsonKyler MurrayBryce YoungBucky IrvingCade OttonCam WardDavid NjokuElijah MooreHarold FanninJ.J. McCarthyJalen CokerJameis WinstonJohn Metchie
Player analysis

Player insights

20

Baker Mayfield

NegativeProjection15:45

Baker Mayfield is out at least three weeks with a thumb injury (per Todd Bowles). Beyond the injury, the Bucks offense has struggled to find its footing even with him playing. Mayfield is not accurate and had poor communication with receivers on blitz replacements in Week 3; he missed a simple slant to Buka Aiyuk on third down that exemplified the team's struggles. The offense has too many mistakes overall. Mayfield's $55 million annual salary (2027 cap hit of $65 million) was predicated on his 40-touchdown 2024 season under Liam Cohen; without that offensive coordinator, he does not command that contract. The Bucks are 0-3 and it's hard to imagine them being a playoff team this season even with Mayfield healthy.

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NegativeProjection18:34

At 31 years old and relying on athleticism to escape problems while dealing with a history of injuries, Mayfield faces concerns about individual play decline similar to Russell Wilson's sudden wall; the speaker worries he may not clear the requisite bar for improvement despite better surrounding circumstances, noting he's been firmly under that bar for the last two years.

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Bryce Young

NegativeProjection34:00

Young showed improvement in quick-game execution this season compared to last year; on throws of 1-12 yards under 2.5 seconds to throw, he ranks third in EPA per play and 12th in success rate (vs. 39th and 33rd last year), suggesting he's not ruining plays with quick decisions; however, he struggles when the pocket collapses and space condenses, particularly against aggressive pass rushes like the Browns, where he can't navigate interior space as effectively as taller quarterbacks.

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Bucky Irving

NegativeRole17:00

Bucky Irving, the Bucks' best skill player, looks more explosive purely as a runner but makes too many mistakes. In Week 3 vs. Vikings, he had a fumble and a drop when Baker Mayfield escaped pressure. The Vikings defense repeatedly exploited the Bucks' inability to handle blitzed linebackers, with running backs getting exploded into Mayfield's lap on crossdog blitzes with Wilson and Cashman. Irving's mistakes compound the offensive line's struggles and communication breakdowns.

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Cade Otton

NegativeMatchup13:00

Cade Otten was eaten alive by Vikings linebacker Ivan Pace in Week 3. Pace had multiple plays where he blew up Otten early in the third quarter, swiped past him (allowing Otten to squirt out of the backfield but still resulting in an incredible pass rush), and later exploded Otten to get a sack. Otten could not handle Pace's blitz assignments.

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Cam Ward

NegativeProjection0:26

Ward was not particularly accurate in Week 3 against the Giants in heavy rain; he had multiple drops and plays called back (including an OPI on Wondell Robinson), missed Tate in the end zone on a scramble drill where he threw it way too far in front, and threw a pick-six late in the game with two timeouts and 24 seconds left on first-and-10, forcing a pass on the back line instead of using his timeouts; his ball never comes out the same way twice, leading to scattershot accuracy until he is fully calibrated to his own mechanics.

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David Njoku

PositiveRole40:06

Njoku (referred to as Boston in the transcript) was featured in Monken's creative offensive concepts; in one sequence, instead of running an inside post, he broke it out for a sail route that was wide open, demonstrating Monken's ability to adjust concepts and get Njoku into favorable positions.

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Deshaun Watson

PositiveUsage36:30

Watson threw two passing touchdowns to Harold Fannin, both resulting from solid pass protection when Panthers stunts were shut down; the speaker noted these were products of the offensive line's execution rather than Watson's individual play.

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NegativeProjection39:07

Watson should have thrown three interceptions in Week 3 against the Vikings; he had one where he threw directly at Will Lee in cover two early in the game, another where he was late getting back to a dig route and threw it at Lathan Ransom (who dropped it), and a third where he threw late on a play-action with Fannan running a crosser and dig concept; despite offensive coordinator Monken's creative scheme work, Watson's accuracy and decision-making remain concerning.

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Elijah Moore

NegativeUsage39:38

Moore (referred to as Concepcion in the transcript) was part of the Browns' offensive scheme where Monken was taking vertical space with two or three players to one side, running posts and getting screens out to players who are best with the ball in their hands; Watson missed Moore on a third-and-five in the second half where a push from the left guard affected the throw, and missed him again on the next drive.

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Harold Fannin

PositiveUsage36:30

Fannin caught two passing touchdowns from Deshaun Watson in the Browns-Panthers game, both resulting from solid pass protection and Panthers stunts being snuffed out.

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J.J. McCarthy

NegativeRole51:07

The Giants are trading for McCarthy to add depth to their quarterback room after losing their starting quarterback; however, McCarthy took two years to get up to speed in Minnesota and still didn't look very good, raising questions about whether two weeks in New York will help him become a better option than Jameis Winston.

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Jalen Coker

NegativeInjury36:56

Coker went out at some point during the Panthers-Browns game; he had probably the two biggest pass plays for the Panthers offense before the injury, and his absence was significant because the Panthers need both him and Bryson Tremaine to make the offense work.

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Jameis Winston

NegativeProjection0:26

Winston could not complete stick routes in the first quarter of Week 3 against the Titans in heavy rain; while some of his early inaccuracy can be attributed to weather conditions, the Giants are already exploring trading for J.J. McCarthy, suggesting they lack confidence in Winston as their starting option.

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John Metchie

PositiveUsage36:30

Mechie had two touchdown receptions from Deshaun Watson, both products of solid pass protection when Panthers stunts were snuffed out; he also had a late-game throw from Bryce Young on an outbreaker on the left side from a crumbling pocket that was described as the best throw Young made in the game.

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Jordan Addison

NegativeUsage22:00

Addison was getting bullied when defenders got hands on him; he had miscommunications with Murray and struggled to create separation, including a two-minute drill play where Murray left a post route with too much air and outside the hash when a completion over the middle could have been huge.

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Justin Jefferson

NegativeUsage21:00

Jefferson was lost at some point during the Vikings-Buccaneers game, which was especially notable given his excellence and the fact that a quarterback in a new system needed reliable targets; his absence forced the Vikings to rely on vertical throws over the middle, limiting offensive options.

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Kyler Murray

NegativeRole2:00

Kyler Murray had his first real full game in the Vikings system after coming off a concussion. The Vikings defense held the Bucks to a 23.4% success rate and the Vikings to 23.6%, one of the lowest combined success rates in recent history. Murray, like Baker Mayfield, left a number of plays on the field, though his struggles are more understandable given the concussion recovery and system adjustment.

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NegativeProjection21:00

Coming off a concussion and in his second game in a new system, Murray struggled with refined quarterback play and decision-making; he double-clutched and avoided throwing over the middle, had multiple plays where the ball needed to come out faster, and showed feast-or-famine tendencies where he can push the ball downfield with defined choices but struggles when reading progressions, raising concerns about offensive consistency.

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Nick Chubb

PositiveRole41:50

Chubb is one of the Browns' young players who looks pretty good through three weeks and is tracking to be where the team wants to be; the Browns' offensive line is much better than last year, and the young skill players are performing well independent of Watson's inconsistent quarterback play.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

671
0:00Welcome to The Athletic Football Show brought to you by the US Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card.
0:05Time for the week 3 hangover. Me and Derrik dug into three games today, started things off with Bucks Vikings, just a
0:11phenomenal performance again from the Minnesota Vikings defense. Followed that up with a little Browns Panthers talk.
0:15Browns defense, especially the Browns front looking like we thought it might coming into the year and then finish things off.
0:21Talking about the Giants and the Titans, which was the most hangover game that might have ever existed.
0:26Giants, Titans, Jameis Winston, Cam Ward in a downpour.
0:29It doesn't get any better than that. Hit all three of those today.
0:32Let's get into that conversation with me and Derek right now.
0:35Time for the week 3 hangover. We had a bunch of games on last night's show, and so there was not a
0:41ton to choose from this morning, and that makes this a very hangover-y show.
0:45We've got some pretty gross stats coming from these three games, but I still think there's plenty to chew on in all
0:51three of the matchups that we're going to dig into.
0:54But there was a lot of ugliness in the leftover games from yesterday, and there's going to be a decent amount of that today.
1:01No Ravens on this show today. No, this is the hangover episode so far that we've done this year that feels the
1:07most like what we were doing last year, where it really was like digging through some mud.
1:12And I do think Vikings Bucks was like compelling in some ways, but it was a disgusting football game.
1:17The Vikings are 3-0. I mean, the fact that we didn't talk about them last night almost feels like a tad disrespectful.
1:23We just had so much other stuff to get to, and it was a really ugly game.
1:28I mean, just to give you guys a sense of this, the Vikings yesterday won the football game.
1:33Per NextGen, they had a 23.6% success rate. The Bucks were at 23.4%.
1:36So I didn't have time to look up the historical context around that.
1:40I have to imagine that's one of the lowest combined success rates in any game in a very long time.
1:45That wasn't a weather game. Like, it wasn't like we were playing in a downpour.
1:50Like, we're going to get to Titans-Giants. It makes a little bit of sense that that game was as ugly as it was.
1:56The fact that this happened in decent conditions, and we had a sub-25% success rate for each of these teams, it was
2:02really hard to watch offense for almost this entire thing.
2:05And for really both sides, and we'll dig into the specifics of it, it was a combination of, I thought, two defenses
2:11that were called really, really well throughout the game.
2:13I think Vikings more so than Bucks, obviously, because Flores is insane.
2:17On top of, like, both quarterbacks just left a number of plays on the field.
2:21And obviously for Kyler, you know, first real full game in the system, he's coming off the concussion, it makes a little bit more sense.
2:28And then with Baker and the Bucks, like, they had been cratering and spiraling already for the first two weeks of the season.
2:34And then you run into Brian Flores, who is going to kind of make you do that regardless of where you are.
2:40Which side of all do you want to start with?
2:43Do you want to start with Bucks offense versus the Vikings defense?
2:46I think that's the more interesting matchup between the two, just in terms of how well the Vikings defense played.
2:52I think I agree. I think that that's probably where I would like to start.
2:56The Vikings defense, man. Literally, the first play of the game, the Bucks are trying to run one back power to the left-hand side.
3:03Dallas Turner grinds the tight end back into the formation.
3:05And then I think it was Eric Wilson comes down and just explodes the puller in the hole.
3:10And Bucky Irving still spins out and it's like a four-yard carry or whatever.
3:14But immediately it was like, yep, they're going to bring the thump the same way that they always do.
3:19And so I think them just doing that, like immediately setting the tone in that way, I thought was interesting.
3:25The other big picture thing I want to talk about, and we'll obviously talk about some of the certain plays and stuff like that.
3:32We've come to obviously Flores. Flores has been blitzing at a truly insane rate this season, especially even on third and fourth downs.
3:38In this game, though, he only blitzed on 39% of the time on third and fourth downs, which is not typically what they had been doing.
3:45They brought a lot of four-man rushes. And on those four-man rushes, Baker Mayfield was two for seven with two sacks, a pick, and zero first down conversions.
3:53So they kind of went off script for what they had normally been doing and said, hey, we're going to make Baker
3:59read it out, especially on these third and twelves and stuff like that.
4:03And really at no point in the game did he prove that he was up to that.
4:07It was just another example of how they're just a step ahead right now, no matter what you're trying to do against them.
4:14They're gloving up absolutely everything. It's a combination of, and we'll get into some of the specifics.
4:18Just for context before we start doing this, I wanted to look it up while you were talking.
4:23Since 2016, over the first three weeks of the season, this is the one, two, three, four, five, six best performance in
4:29terms of defensive success rate through the first three weeks of the season in the past decade.
4:34Collectively, the Vikings in the three games that they have played are giving up a 32.3% defensive success or offensive success rate.
4:40I mean, it's ridiculous. And I think it's, again, it's a combination of so many different things that we can dig into.
4:46The player in this game that best expresses this, Eric Wilson.
4:49Dude, he's amazing. Insane. I mean, just absolutely insane.
4:52And I think you can take this big or small in using Eric Wilson as a microcosm for the Vikings defense.
4:58You can do it for this game. You can do it for what it's felt like this season.
5:03And you can do it for the entire Brian Flores tenure.
5:06Eric Wilson is a journeyman linebacker. Eric Wilson has bounced around the league.
5:09He's been available for next to nothing as like a rotational player.
5:13And over the last two years in this Vikings defense, he has played incredible football.
5:17And this is just what they do. They have these veterans cycle through this defense.
5:21And every single one of them, if they can handle it mentally, becomes the best version of that player throughout their entire career.
5:27And I think Wilson, both in this game and over the last two years, has been a very pure representation of that idea.
5:34He got drafted by this football team 10 years ago.
5:36Obviously, a way different football team and had to journeyman to get like to four different teams before he finally arrived here.
5:42This was not a player who really had a starting job at all until he was 30.
5:47He started like 12 games for the Packers in 23.
5:50But that was like injuries. They were just banged up.
5:53Like that was not like they went into that thinking that.
5:56He lands with Brian Flores. And I think at first it was a little bit of a slow start getting him into the lineup.
6:02And now he's just a starting linebacker. And again, I think there are so many specific plays in this game that highlight what he's capable of.
6:10Like, again, first play where he's just mashing a puller.
6:12He can do that for you. There was one play where he's like picking the guard and then explodes the running back
6:18and like barrels him over and he gets a sack.
6:21I think him and Blake Cashman get to the quarterback.
6:24In the two-minute drill, there was a play where he's mugged up on, and, you know, obviously looks like he's going to be a rusher.
6:31He pops out into the field and gets a hand on the ball that Baker Mayfield's trying to throw past his head.
6:37Like, he can do everything for them. And that is kind of the point of the defense is how many guys do
6:43we have who we think that we can ask to do anything on the football field?
6:47A lot of those examples that you just mentioned, the play after he did something else.
6:52On the play where he gets the PBU dropping off the line of scrimmage, the very next play, he's running with K-Dot
6:58and step-for-step up the seam and gets a PBU.
7:00The play before the nuked, when he nukes the left guard on the stunt and gets the sack, he got a TFL
7:07on second down to force them into third down.
7:09And those plays where he's mugged up on the line of scrimmage and then getting depth off of it, or just really
7:15any play where he's being asked to be a middle-of-the-field zone defender, that's what really stuck out to me in this game
7:21is that it doesn't seem to matter whether they have six guys in coverage, whether they have seven guys in coverage.
7:27The amount of space they're eating, specifically in the middle of the field, when you're trying to access crossers or wrap routes
7:33or any of that stuff, it's just so, so good.
7:36Like, in theory, against a team that blitzes a lot, that's where you should be able to hammer them.
7:41And they just do such a good job of erasing that space consistently.
7:45And I think that in this game, Wilson was the best example of that.
7:49I think absolutely. It's just, I think the way that those guys, obviously when you're playing zone coverage, you're going to one
7:55place and then, especially in their system, you're immediately triggering on the quarterback's eyes or you're triggering where you think the next
8:01route is when you pass it off. And their ability to do that, like the speed at which they do it and
8:07how little they are wrong is really impressive. Like, they play more palms coverage than I think anybody in the league, which
8:13palms is basically like covered two that can turn into quarters just depending on how it plays out.
8:18But the way that those guys read it and pass stuff off, like they are never wrong.
8:23And it's kind of remarkable how well they just like clinch down on space and really never allow you to get easy throws on stuff like that.
8:30It's why, like when they play all those like two high pressures, a lot of the time where they have four guys
8:36or two guys deep, depending on how it plays out and two underneath, it's because of how well they play that exact
8:42coverage that they can blitz in that way more than any other team in the NFL.
8:47There was a play, I literally wrote this in my notes, there was a play, there was a sequence at one point
8:53in the game where Redman gets his hand on a pass at the line of scrimmage.
8:57It's nearly intercepted. Two guys ran into each other.
9:00That was on second down. On third down, they heat Baker up.
9:03He throws the ball short of the sticks. Isaiah Rogers cleans it up.
9:07Drive over, punt. And I just think they are, no one to me does it better than, like the Seahawks suffocate you
9:13over the course of a game, but I don't think there is any defense in the league over the last couple years,
9:19Seahawks, Texans, anybody, that forces you to play on their terms as often and as efficiently as possible as the Vikings consistently do it.
9:25And there are so few offenses that can flip that script on them and play the game they want to play against this team.
9:32It takes the really, really good offenses. And I think that's why, you know, they fell short in the playoffs like the
9:38Rams picked on them a couple years ago, but that's the type of offense that it takes.
9:43Anything less, any tier less than like the tippy top guys, the tippy top play callers that are among the elite guys
9:49in the NFL, they are the ones dictating the terms of how the game is going to be played against you.
9:55And over the first three weeks, the degree to which they have done that, including against Ben Johnson in week two, is just incredibly impressive.
10:02To me, the difference between like them and the Seahawks is the Seahawks don't give you anything.
10:06They really just make you earn a lot of stuff or take all the stuff underneath and you've really got to make
10:12guys miss or you've got to make the hard throws over the middle of the field.
10:17It feels like with the Vikings, they are just daring you to do something.
10:21They are like throwing knives at you and they are daring you to go make a play.
10:25And it's just really, really hard to live that way.
10:28Like the way that they play defense is incredible.
10:31And the way that I honestly think too, they'll play some good quarterbacks obviously over the course of the year.
10:36And I think we've seen the truly elite guys can pick this stuff apart.
10:40But there is a part of me that wonders like this is what the third, fourth year that these, a lot of
10:46these guys are now in this system. And like, I kind of wonder if it's just even more, these guys are attuned to the way that this works.
10:54And I really want to see how it kind of progresses over the course of the season.
10:59But yeah, me too. And I think we probably having Harrison Smith back helps, right?
11:03And just having like one more piece back there to give them a little bit of flexibility.
11:07But coming into it, I think there were some questions about what the front would look like because it was really young.
11:14And the idea that even if you're having to wait a little bit on Kayla Banks and Dominique Orange and they'll come
11:20along at their own pace, I think we probably understated how impactful and important guys like Jalen Redman would be after the season that he had last year.
11:27Dallas Turner taking a step forward. And then the back seven, like the back seven isn't filled with stars.
11:33It's filled with guys like Eric Wilson, who in this defense can be incredibly effective players.
11:37And so when you combine that, when you combine a back seven full veterans who know exactly.
11:42And I think that's probably it is that when you're constantly forcing the other team to play the game on your terms,
11:48it doesn't really matter that you don't have star level talent at every single position because what they're being asked to do
11:54specifically is so the focus in it is so narrow, right?
11:57Like, I think that's what they do such a good job of is that like, we're going to ask you to do
12:03this one very specific thing because we know that's the only answer they're going to have because we're making them make that choice.
12:09And when you're narrowing the scope to that level, you can get really effective play out of these guys that if you
12:15drop them into any given situation, maybe we wouldn't see this level of play from them.
12:20I think that's a great way to put it because they allow every single defensive player they have to do the thing that they are best at.
12:27Like, do you want Isaiah Rogers like running man to man with people?
12:31Or like matching people in coverage? Absolutely not. But can he sit in the flat and play palms and read cover too and all that stuff?
12:38Absolutely. I think the safeties are good at like kind of reading quarterback's eyes and running around that way.
12:43Obviously, Harrison Smith is unbelievable at that. The linebackers, like them using Eric Wilson as this hybrid, you know, will be on the line of scrimmage sometimes.
12:51He'll be a mug player, but we can pop him out.
12:54The pop-out players that are the best at it are the ones with long arms.
12:58And Eric Wilson has that sort of like length and read.
13:01It's how he gets a hand on the ball on the play that I talked about earlier.
13:06And then the other guy that we haven't talked about in this game, but they use him effectively.
13:11Ivan Pace as a blitzer in this game was eating Cade Otten alive.
13:14There were multiple plays, especially in the second half.
13:17You know, there was one where he blew up Cade Otten like early in the third quarter.
13:22Or he like swipes past him and then Otten like squirts out of the backfield and Baker somehow gets the ball to him.
13:28But it was still an incredible pass rush. And then a little bit either later in the drive or on the next
13:34drive, he explodes Cade Otten to get, I think, a sack.
13:37Like he splits the sack. And so the fact that every single player in the defense just gets the scope limited for
13:43them and they get to only do that and really not get put in compromising positions for their skill sets.
13:49It's the same thing that we praise like Kyle Shanahan for with his wide receivers.
13:53But Brian Flores is doing that with defensive guys.
13:55Yeah, we don't normally, we don't talk about defensive quarters, defensive coordinators being a multiplier for individual talents in quite the same
14:01way as we do for offensive players. Because, I don't know, maybe it's because we think about it through a fantasy football lens to a certain extent.
14:09Like there's tangible production with a lot of those offensive guys.
14:12You see their individual numbers in a way that you don't for a linebacker and coverage or safety.
14:17And so it's a little bit more of an abstract idea.
14:20But I think Seattle, we've talked about this a bunch.
14:23Like it took them getting down to Finley at safety for us to feel the difference in who was out there and who wasn't.
14:29And with the really good defenses, that's exactly what it is.
14:32And the Vikings are precisely that. You mentioned Pace is a blitzer.
14:36The thing they found and just kept picking on at a certain point in the second half is that they were running those crossdogs with Wilson and Cashman.
14:43And the Bucs just had absolutely no answer. There were just way too many snaps, period, for Tampa in this game where
14:50their response to a mugged up look was, we're going to let the linebacker come scot-free.
14:54And we're going to ask a back to hold up against that guy with a head start and with momentum.
14:59And he's just going to explode the running back.
15:02The running back is going to get exploded into Baker Mayfield's lap.
15:05That just happened way too many times in this game.
15:08That can't be the answer. But I kind of think that's the beauty of the Brian Flores defense is because the Bucs
15:14are probably sitting there and being like, they're not going to bring them both every time.
15:19Nobody brings both of the mug players every time.
15:21And then over the course of the second half, he's like, yeah, we will.
15:25Why wouldn't we? You don't have an answer for it.
15:28And so that truly is like the beauty of how the Brian Flores defense works.
15:32It's a lot of like, yeah, I'm not hitting you.
15:35I'm not hitting you. And then like as soon as they decide that that's what they want to do, they're going to do it and just unleash everybody.
15:42Anything that really be said at this point about the Bucs and the offense?
15:46I mean, Baker's going to miss three weeks at least is what Todd Bowles came out and said today with that thumb injury.
15:53It almost to me like doesn't matter for this season.
15:55Like they're 0-3. The offense has struggled to find its footing even with Baker.
15:59They were really having a hard time. I mean, it's hard for me to imagine even with Baker Mayfield playing, this being a playoff team this season.
16:07And so now I think it's just a question of what does this look like moving forward?
16:11Like what does this look like for the rest of this year, but also going into next year because you just paid this person.
16:18I'm a little bit. I'm pretty worried because like I actually think the offensive line and run game in a lot of
16:24ways, obviously some of their past pro answers were not great in this game.
16:28But individually, I think a lot of these players still look good.
16:31And the run game has had moments all throughout the season.
16:34I just think overall there are too many mistakes on this team.
16:38Like Baker Mayfield is not accurate. I think when he was trying to replace some of the blitzes in this game, him
16:44and his receivers communication on what exactly the landmark was supposed to be was not great, which is I know it's a
16:50new system technically, but he's thrown to all these guys for a while now.
16:54Like there should be a little bit more, I think, communication there.
16:57That miss to a Buka on third down is one of the saddest incompletions of the season at this point.
17:03You watch it and you watch the body language after that ball, that ball falls incomplete.
17:07And it's like, oh boy, we have reached a tough moment three weeks into the year.
17:11Because that's the simplest answer. We're going to throw the slant against the blitz and they just like, we're not able to connect on it.
17:18And then the other thing too, that I would mention that I think is a small frustration with me.
17:24Bucky Irving purely as a runner looks more explosive.
17:26He just makes a lot of mistakes, man. Like fumbles and just like he had a drop in this game when Baker Mayfield got out of a pressure.
17:34Like it's just a lot of stuff like that for who whenever he touches the ball is their best skill player.
17:40But it just there are too many mistakes, I think, overall in this offense right now.
17:44The Baker thing is, I literally just finished recording a video about how it's not interesting to talk about.
17:49But we probably should just readily admit that quarterbacks are more sensitive to their surroundings than we want to talk about.
17:55Like it's not interesting, but Trevor Lawrence was quarterback 18 in the 2025 QB tiers.
17:59He was quarterback 18. He was just behind Tua.
18:02And Baker Mayfield threw 40 touchdowns in 2024 when Liam Cohen was his offensive coordinator.
18:06And I think if that season doesn't happen, Baker Mayfield does not make $55 million a year.
18:11But now you're paying, Baker Mayfield's cap hit in 2027 is $65 million.
18:14That is, that sounded crazy when Dak was at 60.
18:17And Dak is a much, has always been a much better quarterback than that.
18:21$65 million. And it's just, you're, we're in a tough spot with this team right now.
18:25Because you've committed to Baker now. And it feels like we're trending in a direction where we're probably going to turn the
18:31page as a franchise after the season is over.
18:34And it's just really messy. Like, I just don't know how you untangle all of this heading into next year.
18:39I mean, like, really, your only, your only answer is you have to hit on whatever your pursuit of the next Liam Cohen looks like.
18:46Like, that's the only way you make good on this is if you find a guy who can almost immediately make Baker
18:52Mayfield look like a $65 million quarterback. And I do think, again, that's possible because we should readily admit that these guys
18:58are, that it is, that most of these situations are fragile.
19:02They can change very quickly depending on the circumstances changing.
19:04But you're really threading a very tough needle there if you're the Bucs over the next year.
19:09And it's also like, I know it's not that long ago, but like, Baker Mayfield was 28-29 when he was having those,
19:15you know, the 23 and 24 seasons. He's now 31 for a player that is a little bit smaller, has always tried
19:21to rely on his athleticism to get himself out of problems, and has been banged up at like every point in his career.
19:28And he, I think we knew that he was a player that the wall was probably going to come for him in
19:34a similar way to where it did with Russell Wilson, where it was just like, oh shit, one day it's gone.
19:39And I don't know if that is necessarily true of Baker Mayfield right now, but it feels like that's more where we've arrived.
19:46And so while he is sensitive to his surroundings, I do have worries about like his individual play and ability to like
19:52get back to wherever he was before. You do have to clear a certain bar to make good on that improvement in surroundings.
19:58Like you have to reach a requisite level for any of the rest of the stuff to matter.
20:03And I don't think it would be unfounded for Baker specifically for us to be worried about whether he can still clear that bar.
20:10Because the last two years, he's been firmly under it.
20:13If you just watch the way that he has played.
20:15Let's get to the other side of the ball, because for as good as the Vikings defense was in this game, again,
20:21the offense was pretty terrible down to down. Like you can count on one hand the positive passing plays that happened in this game for the Minnesota Vikings.
20:29Two of them came on the same drive, and they were like two of the five really nice moments that this team had the entire game.
20:36If they don't have that sort of performance from the defense and they don't return a punt for a touchdown, this is
20:42not a winning performance from the Vikings offense. No, the Vikings offense was not good.
20:47Like the passing offense looked, they looked like they had a quarterback who had not played in the system, who was playing
20:53in a way that is not attuned to what he had done best early in his career and coming off of a concussion.
20:59I think. And you lose Jeff and you lose Justin Jefferson at some point in this game.
21:04And you lose Justin Jefferson. Yes, exactly. Which if you were having a young quarter or not a young quarterback, but a
21:10quarterback in a new system who was like needed a little bit of an answer, you would want to rely on Justin Jefferson.
21:16And obviously he didn't have that. And I do think that that is especially notable, not only because he's excellent, but like
21:22Jordan Addison, anytime that people were getting hands on him was getting bullied.
21:26There was a route where TJ Hawkinson was running like a seam route and he just kind of slows up and stops it down.
21:33And Kyler tries to throw it up the field.
21:35And so you have some miscommunications there. And so you had Kyler was bad, but I do think that there were like
21:41a couple of excusable moments where I was like, OK, I kind of see how that didn't go well.
21:46But then he had a few like I think the most frustrating one to me.
21:51It was early on in the second quarter. I think it was the first play of the second quarter.
21:56They run this like spacing concept from the right hand side where they just get like those two little spot routes and
22:02then they have a motion player from left to right.
22:05He runs into the flat. The outside spot player is open and like they do this little play action.
22:10Yeah, it was Hawkinson. He's open. He's wide ass open at the sticks on I think third and five.
22:15And Kyler gets like a flash of color from the edge player right in his face and just like freaks out and takes a sack.
22:22And it's like you don't got to be perfect, man, but that play needs to be made.
22:27And there were just a few more of those moments than you would have liked.
22:31That was the worst one. That was the worst one where he he starts inside and then moves outside.
22:36But there is enough time between that. One to two before that color gets to him where that ball has to come out.
22:43And that happened not to the same degree, but there were probably four or five plays in this game where if you
22:49pause that at the top of the drop, that ball needs to come out.
22:52There was a sack. With like 11 minutes left and I think it was the third quarter where he has Addison on
22:59an inbreaker versus cover three and it's open. And if he lets that ball go when he should, it's going to be
23:05bang bang, but that ball has to be thrown.
23:07And so you can just tell he's not seeing it very clearly to like you said, I give credit to the Bucks
23:13defense because I think they were doing a really good job.
23:16They gave out that one dagger completion Jefferson on the first drive and after that anything they were trying to do in
23:22the intermediate area of the field was a non-starter.
23:25Like they knew that was the exact space they needed to take away, especially over the middle.
23:30And that's why I think the only things that worked for the Vikings in this game is when they threw the ball
23:36over the top and we're getting just bypassing that entirely.
23:38It's like if you're going to sink underneath that stuff in the intermediate area, we're just going to throw the ball over your heads.
23:45And that was the only thing they were able to do.
23:48And Mike, and here, this is where I land with it.
23:51Is that something that is going to continue? Like, are we going to be at a place where Kyler really struggles with
23:57the refined elements of playing quarterback in this system?
24:00And it's just feast or famine where they can push the ball down the field when he has a defined choice to be made.
24:06But when you actually make him read stuff out, he's not going to be able to, because if that's going to be
24:12the case, then I worry about what this offense is going to look like over the course of the season.
24:18He deserves some grace, concussion, first game back, second game period in the system.
24:22But this is a disappointing start to that process, I guess is what I would say.
24:26It definitely was. And again, I don't want to hit the panic button until we see like three weeks, I think, of play like this.
24:33But I do think to some level, him double clutching and not wanting to fire over the middle, like that's who he is.
24:40I think you just hope that a lot of the other stuff is going to get cleaned up and be better.
24:45Again, if Justin Jefferson's back and you've got some outside routes that you can just hit on, I think that will be nice.
24:52He had a couple of really nice, I thought, outbreakers in this game.
24:55But if you're going to be an outside and vertical team, the vertical stuff has to hit every time.
25:01And like he hits the one to Addison on the backside post.
25:04But there was another one in the two minute drill on the third and four.
25:08The safety nails down on a crosser and he's got Addison wide ass open on the post.
25:13And he kind of leaves it like way too much air under it and leaves it like a little bit on the outside of the hash.
25:20And it's like, man, if you just throw that to space over the middle and let your guy run for it.
25:26I don't know if it's a touchdown, but it's a huge completion.
25:29And so it's just like those stuff, I think more than anything really does need to get cleaned up.
25:34At this point, the defense is playing well enough that they're going to potentially be able to keep them in a lot of these games.
25:41But you're going to need to see more from the offense if it's going to matter.
25:46At some point during the season, you're going to need more from the offense for any of this to matter.
25:51And that's kind of where I leave this game.
25:54And with the Bucs, I just, we can do a post-mortem on the Bucs at some point relatively soon.
25:59Because I think we're going to be to that, we're going to get to that moment sooner rather than later.
26:04All right, let's take our first quick break and then come back and chat a little Browns-Panthers.
26:09Get to our next one here. The Cleveland Browns beat the Carolina Panthers 21-18.
26:13The Browns are now 2-1 on the young season.
26:15I want to start here. I really loved a lot of the stuff the Browns did on defense in this game.
26:21I really enjoyed watching the front seven in particular.
26:24Like when the pass rush, especially in the first half, needed to come up with a big play and a big moment.
26:30I liked the plan. I liked the individual performances.
26:32It was what I hoped this group would look like coming into the year.
26:36Like over the first couple weeks, they didn't necessarily show this level of teeth.
26:40But there were four, five, six examples from this game where I was like, this is what it is supposed to look like.
26:46Like you started to feel the talent that we thought this defense had.
26:50And like the player, I really want to shout out.
26:53Mason Graham looks like the player that we thought was a top five pick.
26:57Like the first play of the game, he's in the backfield.
27:00And I think what my thought with him too, last week I watched their defense and I was like, I'm pretty sure
27:06that's the best game that Mason Graham has ever played as a pro.
27:09And then I watched this game back this morning and I was like, I'm pretty sure that's the best game that he's ever played as a pro.
27:17He was really, really good in this game. It's funny that you mentioned him there.
27:21I totally understandable, totally fair. When I went back and watched the guy that I just couldn't stop watching because I'm prone
27:27to fixating on him over the course of a game.
27:30Jared Verse is just such an awesome player. And he's unique in that you're never going to fully understand his value by
27:36how many sacks he gets over the course of a season.
27:39The pressure numbers. And this is where I think there might be a little bit of a disconnect with how people see Jared Verse.
27:46Like they look at the pressure numbers and they look at the sack numbers.
27:50And it's like, all right, well, he gets a ton of pressures, but how impactful is he really?
27:55And then you watch a game like this. I think he had six pressures in the game.
27:59He had, I think he had two quick pressures, but there were so many examples where, and Rasheed Walker had a tough day.
28:06And Rasheed Walker's had a tough season to this point.
28:08Where you just watch Jared Verse, he walks the left tackle back into the quarterback almost immediately.
28:13And it's the same way the Rams looked when they were at their best.
28:17And I think it's not an accident. He is such an important piece for a complimentary pass rush where it's all working together.
28:23And there are multiple examples in this game where he's denting the pocket.
28:27It's causing Bryce to either have to move off his spot a little bit or not be able to get rid of the ball immediately.
28:34And that little half second of affecting the play, you watch the stunt inside start to get home.
28:39And one of those guys gets home for a sack.
28:42That is finished off by a guy like Mason Graham, who had two of those in this game.
28:47But that starts because Jared Verse is impacting the timing of the play almost immediately because the left tackle is next to
28:53the quarterback about a second after the ball was snapped.
28:55I think the player describing was a fourth and three too, which that's another thing in this game.
29:00The Panthers failed two fourth downs early in the game, which I think was obviously really terrible.
29:05And gave the Browns short fields on both of them.
29:08And they scored on both of those drives. Gave them short fields.
29:11Exactly. Honestly, now that you say it like that, because I totally agree about Jared Burst, by the way.
29:16This feels a lot of the way that we had to talk about Jadavion Clowney when he was at his peak, where
29:22it's like the sack numbers are just never really quite there.
29:26But he is just always around the quarterback and always pushing a tackle into the quarterback and a good run defender who
29:32can like take back space in that way. Like he does feel very similar to Clowney at his peak in that way to me.
29:38There were so many examples like the first drive.
29:41The first drive, it's second and nine. The Browns run like a sweet simulated pressure with a nickel coming off of one side.
29:47Verse pushes the left tackle back into the quarterback.
29:50Bryce takes a grounding. The fourth and three that you mentioned.
29:53There's on third and goal when they were up 10-0.
29:55Yet again, Verse puts the left tackle in Bryce's lap.
29:58Bryce has the throw to the flat. That's open.
30:01That was one of his worst plays of the day.
30:03Yeah. That was one of his worst plays of the day.
30:06But if Verse doesn't do that to the left tackle, that ball gets thrown.
30:10That ball gets thrown if Verse is not affecting the play.
30:13It still should come out. But that's just another like quiet moment where it might be a pressure.
30:18It might not have been because the tackle is in front of him the whole time.
30:23But he's affecting that play. And that just happens so, so often.
30:26The last guy in the defense I wanted to mention because we talked about him coming into the season is could he have a bounce back here?
30:34Quincy Williams just looks so much better in this defense than he looked with the Jets last year.
30:39He just looks so much better. When the job is, hey, could you just run and hit people?
30:44He's incredible at that. Like he's really like he killed a screen in this game.
30:48He had a couple of like check down stops that he made.
30:51Like Quincy Williams does look, he looks really good again.
30:54And so I thought I just think the fact that you feel the teeth in this defense again after, you know, they
31:00were kind of up and down the first couple of weeks.
31:03And so for them to have this game against an offense that however real what the Panthers offense is, we can talk about.
31:09But they were really good the first two weeks of the season.
31:13And so for the Browns to come out and kick their ass, I thought was like really impressive.
31:18I think this was a really good test for the Panthers offense in a very specific way.
31:22When we talked about Carolina last week, me and Barnwell in the middle of the week, and we're trying to figure out is this real?
31:29The thing that I was most worried about is that you see this.
31:33When the space around Bryce condenses and he can't buy more space, either by finding an escape hatch where he can extend plays as a scrambler thrower, right?
31:41Let me find a window. Let me get up and out of the pocket.
31:44Let me find space and create deep into the down or when they're moving the pocket for him.
31:49They did a really good job in the first couple of weeks of very subtly moving the pocket.
31:54And the best stuff the Panthers offense did in this game was yet again off play action where they're subtly moving the
32:00pocket and they're throwing all of those crossing routes.
32:03They hit two of them to the tight end and they eventually hit the touchdown to John Mechie.
32:08They did it three times on one drive. When he's having to sit in the pocket and pure drop back situations and
32:14you're condensing that space, that's where you feel how small he is.
32:17And that wasn't happening a lot over the first couple of weeks of the season.
32:21It happened over and over and over again in this game because Jared versus on the other side.
32:26And that is what I was worried about. And it just showed up in about as bad and as blatant of a
32:33way as it could have in this game. And he is a quarterback that because of exactly what you're describing, where it's
32:39harder for him than other quarterbacks to step up into open interior space in the pocket.
32:43I actually thought for a lot of this game, the interior was fine.
32:47The tackles were getting mashed into the pocket immediately, both Walker and Freeling for a lot of this game.
32:52And he's just not a quarterback who can navigate that space.
32:55And he made a handful of nice plays when he was clean or versus the Blitz.
32:59He had like a really nice throw to Mechie late in the game.
33:03Like he did some good stuff, but it's like you're saying.
33:06That was the best throw he made. The one up to Mechie on the outbreaker on the left side in a crumbling pocket.
33:12That was the best throw he made by far in this game.
33:16Because that was from the far hash too. That is the throw that you've got to be able to make if you're
33:22going to stick in this league with some of his limitations.
33:25And I did think that that was impressive. But like you said, you feel when he is small in the pocket in moments like that.
33:32I will say one thing that I've been impressed with him over the course of this year really, but especially in this
33:38game, especially compared to previous versions of what he was.
33:41Part of my frustration with him is that if you were going to be this limited player, you really had to be
33:47buttoned up and on your P's and Q's with stuff that needs to come out.
33:51But last year, his ability to throw a quick game and be on time was not good enough.
33:56Like he would double clutch stuff. He would be a second late, all that stuff.
34:00So far this season on throws of one to 12 yards under a 2.5 time to throw.
34:05So that's not a perfect modicum for quick game, but it's pretty close.
34:08Bryce Young is third in EPA per play and 12th in success rate right now.
34:12Last year, that was 39th and 33. And so I don't know if it'll hold at that rate over the course of
34:18the year, but he's not like ruining plays every time he has to go quick game.
34:23And I do think that that allows this offense to like breathe and have some function to it, even if there's still
34:29going to be some struggles when he gets collapsing pockets.
34:32I totally agree. And what I was really encouraged by going back and watching him, there were two things that to me
34:38stuck out about the way that he was playing that felt different than it had felt in years past and maybe gave him a path forward.
34:45One was just how much better he was at finding the space we're talking about.
34:49Now that's just a time on task time in the league.
34:52I've realized how I need to play in order to survive.
34:55And I think you could just feel his sense of that being better than it had been over the last couple of years.
35:02And the other part of it was how fast he was seeing it.
35:05He threw a touchdown to Waller in that Falcons game that he sees that thing immediately and that ball comes out.
35:11And so I do think there will be better days ahead when the offensive line isn't getting absolutely mauled and affecting the
35:17game in exactly the way his game can't be affected.
35:20That's kind of where I leave this game. And the fact that you seem to have like you're open to the idea
35:26that he could be better over the course of this year for some of the specific reasons we're talking about.
35:31That's important. Like, I want people to recognize that in the moment as we're having this conversation.
35:36He looks better than last year. And again, I still have my reservations about like what is really the ceiling for this?
35:42How much does it like you have to do a lot of protecting and building the offense a certain way to make this work.
35:49But it looks like if he can do a lot of what he did last week in terms of the good.
35:55And then again, your tackles aren't just going to get nuked every single passing play.
35:59And also, hopefully, you don't have to pass 50 some odd times with him at quarterback.
36:03It's like, yeah, you can be a functional to nice offense.
36:06You know, again, there's other considerations other than can you do that in one season.
36:10But I do think that they can be totally fine.
36:13The other thing worth mentioning about the offense outside of the tackle just getting mauled over the course of this game and how it affected things.
36:20Jalen Coker goes out at some point. And Jalen Coker had probably the two biggest pass plays of the game before that.
36:27By Bryson Tremaine go ball on the left side.
36:29And so you lose Coker in the middle of the game.
36:32Like, you only had two receivers. You need both of those guys in order for this thing to work.
36:37Even though, again, Tremaine did have a couple nice moments.
36:40On the other side, I think the thing that really jumped out to me is that the flip side was true.
36:46Both of Deshaun Watson's passing touchdowns to Harold Fannin in this game are a product of pass protection.
36:51Both of them. Like, when you watch it, the Panthers on both of those plays are trying to run stunts that just
36:57got absolutely snuffed out over the course of the play.
37:00Their work on games was terrible. Like, they are not a good games team right now.
37:04That is, we said this in week one. When we were talking about Jalen Phillips being a try.
37:09There might have been even the division preview. When you watch them, it's so easy.
37:13And I understand why we have to do it this way.
37:16Like, there's only so much institutional understanding you can have about how every team plays and why every team struggles in these sorts of areas.
37:23When you watch the Panthers going back to last season, the idea of, well, now we have Jalen Phillips.
37:28So the pass rush is going to be better.
37:31And I know Skorton isn't playing, right? I get that.
37:34But this was never a team when I would watch them where it felt like the pass rush.
37:39We talk about complimentary pass rush plans and the way the Browns looked, the way the Vikings look.
37:44It is such a drastic difference when you watch those teams.
37:47And then when you watch the Panthers, like just dropping a $30 million edge rusher into this thing.
37:52If the rest of the plan doesn't feel dynamic and is making other teams feel uncomfortable and edgy in the pocket, the
37:58$30 million pass rusher ceases to matter. And I just keep coming back to that every single time I watch this defense.
38:04That's all of his best plays in this game.
38:06Jalen Phillips, that is, where when he's lined up in the D or shoot, if you want to say it, like the
38:12E gap, where he's just like way out there in like a wide nine.
38:16And they just give him a runway to just like sprint full speed and like make a move at the last second.
38:22That was really the only plays I thought that he was like super effective as a pass rusher.
38:27And that's just, that's just not really a way to live.
38:30Like, I just don't think that that is an effective down to down way to do it.
38:35I did think some of their pressure stuff in this game was interesting.
38:39Like they were bringing DBs from depth, like really well.
38:41And like Merrig was a really good blitzer in this game, but they really were not getting home unless they were scheming
38:48up one of those guys to get home. And otherwise I thought like the pure pass rush was just not really there
38:54in a way that they've clearly invested in. Like they've, again, I know Skorton is not there, but they have signed a lot of players in free agency.
39:01To go and get to the quarterback on some level.
39:04And they still, I think, struggled to do it.
39:07Anything else that stuck out to you about the Browns offense?
39:10I think Monken is kind of cooking right now, man.
39:12Like I, Watson should have thrown three interceptions in this game.
39:16Like there was one where Will Lee is jumping a pick early in the game in cover two and Watson throws it at him.
39:22There's another one where he's trying to throw, they have like a play action where Fannan's running a little crosser and then they have the dig behind it.
39:30But he is as late as you can possibly be getting back to the dig and he throws the ball right at Lathan Ransom and he drops it.
39:38But I just thought some of the way that Monken was taking vertical space with like two or three players to one
39:44side, completely running like all these posts and stuff like that.
39:47And either running overs into it or getting shallows or getting screens out there because what most of these players are best at, whether it's Concepcion, Judkins, Fannan.
39:55It's like with the ball in their hands, they can make people miss and make plays.
39:59And I do think that they did a really, really good job of that.
40:03And then one specific sequence I want to talk about.
40:06They had at one point early in the game ran that concept where you get two posts coming from from like the right side, let's say.
40:13And then the deep cross are coming from the left to get into that space.
40:17And they threw it once and Judy drew DPI, whatever.
40:20They went back to that same concept. And then instead of Boston running like the inside post, he stops it down, breaks
40:26it out for a sail route, and it's wide open.
40:29And so I do think that Monken is doing some pretty good and interesting stuff.
40:33I think I just still have my questions about the effectiveness of it all on a down-to-down basis given the quarterback play.
40:39Yeah, that's where I sit with it as well.
40:41I mean, a lot of the most important plays he made in this game was what he was doing as a scrambler.
40:47And I guess that's part of the benefit of him playing over whatever other quarterback they're going to trot out there.
40:53But you mentioned the missed turnovers. There was two drives in a row.
40:57There was a third and five in the second half where he just misses Concepcion.
41:01There's like a little push from the left guard that affects that throw, but he misses that high.
41:06And then on the next drive, he misses him again.
41:09Like I think Watson thinks he's going to sit down and he doesn't.
41:12So that's an incompletion and a bunch of different situations and moments where they could have turned the ball over.
41:18And so I'm with you. Like I, the quarterback part of this was always going to be, can we get by?
41:24And I think they're getting by enough, but the gambit with this thing.
41:27And I think the place you'd wanted to read, you would want to reach if you were a Browns fan is, do
41:33we feel good about all the other elements of the offense independent of the way the quarterback is playing?
41:39And I think you watch this game, you've watched some of the other games they've played so far this year.
41:44We're about as close to that as you can reasonably be in an NFL context, because that's really hard to do.
41:50When the quarterback play isn't very good, it's difficult to feel good about a lot of the other things that are going on around it.
41:57And I think we're kind of there with what the Browns have done so far.
42:01I think through three weeks, you're there where they want to be.
42:04Where, yeah, like you feel good about things. The offensive line is not perfect, but it's much better than it was last year.
42:11Your young players look pretty good. Like they're tracking to be where they want to be for whoever is going to play quarterback in 2027.
42:18All right. Let's take one more quick break and then get to the most hangover, the most hangover game that's probably ever been played.
42:24The New York Giants and Tennessee Titans played a football game yesterday.
42:27You could you could argue that. I don't know if I would.
42:31The Titans had one first down in the first half.
42:34Really? I mean, I guess I don't even know why that's surprising.
42:37Of course, they did. But like, that's that is bad.
42:40They had one first down in the first half at the four minute mark of the second quarter.
42:45They had a six yard completion to Wondell Robinson.
42:47Four minute mark of the second quarter. That was their longest gain of the game up to that point.
42:52It was a six yard completion to Wondell Robinson.
42:55That sounds about right. And that is in part because he dropped like a 20 yarder before that.
43:00It's it's a frustrating game for the Titans because you watch the first half and I don't know this to be true, but this is my assumption.
43:07It felt like the weather eased up in the second half.
43:10When I was watching the Titans passing game, my assumption is the weather eased up a little bit in the first half.
43:16The gap between these two teams is the Giants could run the ball and the Titans could not.
43:21That was the only difference between the two teams.
43:24The Giants offense for the majority of the first half was one busted play to Cam Scadaboo, who deserves so much credit for how that play went.
43:31By the way, he's releasing to the flat sees Jameis buying time outside of the pocket and immediately just books it down the field.
43:38It makes himself available in the scramble drill. It leads to an explosive.
43:42The Giants get points on that drive. One of the other scoring drives that the Titans had when they went up six, nothing.
43:48They ran the ball 10 times in a row.
43:5010 straight running plays for the Giants on that drive that eventually falls short because they try to run a wildcat play with Scadaboo quarterback.
43:57They lose like seven yards and they have to kick a field goal.
44:01But at that point in the game, that's as productive of a drive as you possibly need.
44:06They were doing that over and over and over again.
44:08And then the Titans in the second half do start moving the ball pretty consistently.
44:13They have a touchdown drive. And then two more drives get down inside the five.
44:17And then two just. I don't know if inexplicable is the word, but two baffling choices by the quarterback, baffling mistakes by
44:23the quarterback leads to them to coming away with zero points on either one of those drives.
44:28And that's the reason the Titans lose this game.
44:30I mean, the most egregious miss to me is the one where he misses Tate in the end zone where he's like
44:36rolling left and it's like kind of a scramble drill play.
44:39And he throws it like way further out in front of Tate than really makes any sense.
44:44And like Tate is like kind of slow rolling out of this role like that play was egregious.
44:49The next one is like he expects the tight end to be able to go up for it.
44:54And he's not able to because he's kind of getting fought off with the defender.
44:58But I do not think Cam Ward was particularly accurate in this game for a lot of those moments.
45:03There were a couple of drops in like plays that got called back.
45:07Like I said, in the second quarter, Wondell Robinson drops like a deep corner.
45:11They had one called back like a deep shot to I think it might have been to Wondell Robinson down the right hand side because I.O.
45:18For an OPI. For an OPI. Yeah, where he's like trying to pick the corner where like I think even if he
45:24doesn't touch the corner like Wondell Robinson probably gets open.
45:27So it's just one of those like really frustrating plays.
45:29The the pick at the very end of the game is very young quarterback.
45:33What are you doing coded in so many ways?
45:36It's you have two timeouts with 24 seconds left and it's first and 10.
45:40You've got plays like you've got time here to figure this thing out.
45:43And so then he tries to force a pass on the back line.
45:47Obviously, Javon Holland is able to go pick him off.
45:50The other issue than just making that decision of trying to force something in that moment.
45:54If you're going to try to make the hero play to the guy on the back line, you have to miss high.
46:00That's the rule of the of the end zone.
46:03You miss high on the back. And if you're throwing short, you miss low because it just makes it more difficult for
46:09defenders to get hands on the ball. The fact that he forces that and gives Javon Holland even a chance to get
46:15a fingertip on that ball, I think is a massive mistake and one you see more often from young quarterbacks in that moment.
46:21The accuracy issues early in the game, how much of that are we going to try to attribute to the conditions?
46:27And how much of that are we going to say this continues to be an ongoing problem?
46:32This is something to be worried about. It is something a little bit to be worried about because I think he's one of those players where.
46:39The ball never comes out of his hand the same way twice.
46:42Like there are some quarterbacks where the action is so repeatable.
46:45And I think on some level, there is value to that.
46:48The way that he can get the ball around defenders every now and then, I do think is impressive.
46:54But it does lead to some scattershot sprays until you are very attuned to the way that you are trying to do that on every single throw.
47:01And he's clearly not calibrated to that right now, even if maybe in two or three years he can be.
47:07This was something with rookie Lamar Jackson where he just kept trying to do this and it didn't work until suddenly it did.
47:13And he was the MVP. And I'm not saying that Ward is going to do that, but I do think that the accuracy issues are real.
47:20I do think for the most part over the final like two and a half ish quarters, the accuracy was not that much of an issue.
47:27And it really was like they were clearly playing in a downpour early because he had those misses.
47:32And Jameis Winston is a bad comparison because Jameis Winston is terrible right now.
47:36But Jameis Winston could not complete like a stick route in the first quarter of this game, which like I'm pretty sure
47:42if the conditions were right, he would be able to do at least that.
47:46So at least for a lot of the misses early on, I do attribute like mostly to weather.
47:51I think I'm kind of just in wait and see mode.
47:54Like, again, it's a terrible weather game that he played well enough in the second half.
47:59I'm very open to the idea that Cam Ward just isn't good and that this might just be.
48:04It might be a nonstarter with him and the Titans offense and that's just where we're going to ultimately land.
48:09I just want to see a little bit more in a new system in better circumstances and better conditions as we move
48:15throughout the season before I'm ready to kind of put a fine point on that.
48:19I want to get like halfway through the season before I'm like, OK, this is a problem because I do think what
48:25you see oftentimes, even with quarterbacks that have been struggling second half of their second season, you can start to see a
48:31little bit of life even for guys that have really, really struggled.
48:35And so I think if we can't get there by then with him and then we have some serious questions going into
48:41year three, I think that that's a lot more fair.
48:44But I'm yeah, I'm kind of also in wait and see mode of like, let's get to Thanksgiving and hopefully it's not this bad anymore.
48:51What do you make of the two and one Giants?
48:53It's not a lot. I don't think that this is a very good football team.
48:57I've been impressed with their ability to run the ball.
49:00Like, I do think that that part of it is kind of real.
49:04And I think if Jackson Dart was able to play and gave them a little bit more down the field and maybe
49:10neighbors was 100% healthy, like you could talk me into like really annoying seven win team to have to play against every week.
49:16And I do think that because they can run the ball the way they do, there is a little bit of like
49:22last year's Panthers at times sort of vibe where they can just make some some games a rock fight.
49:28It's a good comparison. Yeah. Yeah. Where they can just like muddy up some games and like if you if you limit
49:34each team to like having two fewer drives and you just get lucky on a couple of them and force a turnover.
49:40OK, you can make every game really shitty and annoying to play.
49:43I just don't know if that's going to amount to enough wins to matter.
49:47But honestly, if they arrive there with not having their starting quarterback and Brian Burns being out for the season and you
49:53win seven games doing that, it's probably that's a pretty successful year one for everything.
49:57I think all things considered. I just don't know what to make of them yet.
50:01Again, it's we had one weird game against a Dallas defense that was completely out of sorts in week one.
50:07They get annihilated in a game where their starting quarterback gets hurt in week two.
50:11And then in week three, they're playing in a downpour with Jameis Winston and they're playing against a quarterback that's also dealing with the downpour.
50:18I just don't think there's we have enough evidence in any way to understand what the 2026 Giants are yet.
50:23They're probably the team. Yeah, where the evidence matters the least from so far of what we've seen.
50:28And now they're at the point where I don't even think they want to play Jameis trading for J.J.
50:34McCarthy, which I don't really think that fixes anything either.
50:36But that's where their season has already arrived. I wonder how much that is where we want to play J.J.
50:42McCarthy and how much of that is we just need to add to our quarterback room because it's already thinner than we
50:48want it to be three weeks into the year.
50:51How fast can J.J. McCarthy be up to speed to be a better option for you than Jameis Winston is?
50:56Maybe faster than we want to admit based on the way that Jameis has played.
51:00But the fact that we're even in this place with the Giants where they're wanting to give up a fifth round pick for J.J.
51:07McCarthy, I think, speaks to how fast the season has gone south.
51:10Yeah, I think it is more like what you're saying if they just needed another body in the room, because other than
51:16Jameis Winston, they do not have a guy. And I I do not think that he will get it took J.J.
51:22McCarthy two years to get up to speed in Minnesota, and it still didn't look very good.
51:27And so I don't know if two weeks in New York is going to do a whole lot for him.
51:32Yeah, we'll see what happens. I think it's probably a worthwhile dice roll just for depth and to maybe salvage something out of this season.
51:39But I'm not sure the season really can be salvaged, even at two and one.
51:43I think that with a backup quarterback over most of this year, I just I'm not sure what this team is really going to be capable of.
51:51And I think it's going to be hard probably to have a judgment on year one of the John Harbaugh era when
51:57you're playing with this level of quarterback play over the entire year.
52:00I think that's probably going to be where we land and to lose Burns for an extended period of time.
52:06Like, I think the goal here with the Giants was, could we evaluate what year one of this regime looks like and
52:12what sort of foundation they were working off of moving forward?
52:15And I think based on how the first few weeks have gone, that's going to be really difficult to do.
52:20And I think that would be my biggest frustration as a Giants fan is that you make this huge swing to kind
52:27of change the entire complexion of the organization. And there is a chance that after year one of that is over, you
52:33have absolutely no clarity on whether or not that swing was correct.
52:36I think we'll get like maybe they can get it to the point where we can kind of see what the floor is.
52:42Like if they can make this work somehow and win six games with all that's gone wrong, sure, that's cool.
52:48But we're going to have no idea what the ceiling is supposed to be projecting into 2027.
52:53And I think that is probably the frustration. All right.
52:55That is all we've got for the week three hangover.
52:58You guys are watching this on YouTube. Our Monday night football recap from last night with Eagles and the Eagles and the Bears should be available for you.
53:06If you're watching this on YouTube, encourage you guys to like and subscribe.
53:09I have a ton more YouTube specific stuff hitting the channel this year.
53:13The only way to see that is if you are subscribed to the channel.
53:17So please like, subscribe, comment, do all of that great stuff.
53:20For now, that's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening.
53:23We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in.
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53:30If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment, and leave a rating.
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