0:00Welcome to The Athletic Football Show presented by the US Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card.
0:04I'm Robert Mays. We got a jam packed show today.
0:07Not gonna waste any time. We had so much to dig into terrible losses by the Browns and Chargers, really impressive wins
0:13by the Bengals and Broncos, some WTF moments with quarterback injuries that really put a damper on the entire day.
0:19We dug into all of it from week two in the NFL with me, Derrik Klassen and Dave Helman.
0:24Let's get to it right now. Just a chaotic day of NFL football.
0:28There's so much I feel like we have to sort through.
0:31A lot of bad. It was an ugly day.
0:33It was gross here in Chicago. That's how I woke up this morning is just spitting rain and a lot of the
0:39football in the early slate followed suit. There's a lot of gross football in the early part of the day, which we will get into.
0:46But the day finishes up with a thrilling Sunday night game.
0:50We're going to talk about this game in depth during the hangover tomorrow.
0:53So we will go back through the entire thing.
0:56But we have to talk about the way that that game ended.
0:59We're sitting there as the Colts are weighing this fourth and eighth decision.
1:03I think your gut, Dave, was that you have to go for this.
1:06You can't give Patrick Mahomes the ball back. I was a little bit more torn just because fourth and eighth, three minutes.
1:12You have the timeout. If you get a stop, theoretically, you can win the game.
1:17It's not like I think the Saints in week one where who had there was another overtime game where I was like, just go for it.
1:24Just try to win the game. You're not. You go for the Saints at the like, it was regulation, but it was like the last.
1:31Yes. And so like I, there are moments where I could understand saying, let's just try to win the game.
1:37It was overtime. My brain's not. My brain's fried, but there was a game in week one where who cares if you
1:43tie the game, just try to win it. It doesn't matter if you lose.
1:47In this one, I was, I understood both sides of it, but you were pretty firmly in the camp that they should have gone for.
1:54You know, what's funny is, so I'm sitting there and it's fourth and eight and you saw Shane Steichen come onto the screen.
2:00You could see him in the background, like telling them, get away, don't snap this ball.
2:05And I was just so disappointed by it because you look at it and like times running out, like there's three minutes left.
2:11And I was thinking like, okay, if you kick this field goal, what are the odds that you see the ball again,
2:17either because the Chiefs go win the game or you just get the ball back with not that much time.
2:23And you said like it made sense in a vacuum.
2:26You were like, well, there's enough time that you get the ball back and you get one last shot to win the game.
2:32And I was like, yeah, I guess that makes sense.
2:35And then as soon as I remembered when I saw Patrick Mahomes jog on the field, I was like, wait, no, it's that guy.
2:41It's Patrick Mahomes. You're not going to get it back from Patrick Mahomes.
2:45And lo and behold, that's exactly what happened. Well, he looked like Patrick Mahomes this game.
2:50Like he looked, it's not like, honestly, if they had played the offensive game and like passing performance that they did in
2:56week one, then I might be a little bit more willing to be like, okay, let's play for the tie.
3:01Let's, let's see if we can get a stop.
3:04The Chiefs were one of the best offenses that we saw today.
3:07Like they were driving all game and kind of doing what they wanted.
3:11So I fourth and eight is scary and it's a lot.
3:14And I think in almost every other circumstance, I would be like, I don't know if converting a fourth and eight gives
3:20you a better chance than just like getting the field goal tie in the game, hoping you make the stop with the
3:26way that the Chiefs offense was playing. I honestly do feel like that might've been your better chance.
3:31I think that's probably right. I saw the fourth and eight and the three minutes left.
3:36I'm like, you can't go for this. Eight is a lot of yardage.
3:39If you can get a stop for, but I think you have to ask yourself the question, are you more likely to
3:46get a fourth and eight on one play or stop Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs offense in that situation?
3:51And if they're even slightly close, if there is, if they're neck and neck, do you choose to say, I want to
3:57lose the game with the ball in my hands?
4:00That's the choice that I'm going to make. And I think that as I think more about it and kind of revisit
4:06it, that's probably where I land where it's like, I'd rather just lose going down swinging rather than giving him the ball one last time.
4:13Even if fourth and eight seems like a crazy decision.
4:16The other thing that I, sorry, Derek, that just, I wanted to mention too, cause I was, we we've talked about this
4:22in the summer and ironically, um, Braden Smith took this kick out, but like in this day and age, you're starting these
4:28possessions north of the 30 yard line. Most of the time.
4:31Anyway, the Chiefs started at their own 32. Rashard Smith.
4:34Rashard. Braden Smith. That was like, I don't know how Braden Smith plays in it.
4:38Braden Smith. I mean, hell of a kick return by Braden Smith.
4:41My brain is like misfiring right now. Yes. Rashard Smith.
4:44So if you're starting on the 32 and it's Patrick Mahone, like it's just, it's not that hard anymore to get in position for a field goal.
4:52And if a fourth and eight is a long distance to get, and I understand why that's scary, but I think I'd rather go down that way.
4:59My biggest issue with what happened is probably them running the ball on first and 10 and then on second and long
5:05and putting themselves in a situation where it was third and long and then getting behind the eight ball to make it that fourth and eight.
5:13My favorite part about this game is that somehow Laquan Threadwell and Tyquan Thornton are important at work in 2026.
5:18Tyquan Thornton is like a real important part of the Colts, of the Chiefs offense.
5:22Like that, that throw that they completed. I didn't look it up in real time because I was preparing for the other
5:29games that we were going to talk about. I guarantee you it's been a while since they've had a deep completion in
5:35a big moment like that, that far down the field.
5:38I mean, that's the area of the offense that has really been lagging over the last couple of years is their inability to push the ball downfield.
5:45It hasn't been where Mahomes is best. They haven't really had a guy that can do that.
5:50It's not surprising to me based on some of the flashes he showed last year and how little we've gotten out of
5:56Xavier Worthy that it really does seem like Tyquan Thornton is going to matter for the Chiefs offense over the course of this season in that exact role.
6:04He's the only guy who's both fast and tall in the offense.
6:07Like, you know, Travis Kelsey's big and like Rasheed Rice is not a small guy, but like Xavier Worthy small and he's
6:13fast, but he doesn't have that blend of both.
6:16Thornton is a little bit skinny for six to but the fact that you can just like lay that ball out for
6:22him and he can go up and get it.
6:25I thought was super impressive. I'll also say I think Mahomes is deep all over the last like two ish years has been pretty scattershot.
6:32I think he's had a tendency to like because he doesn't trust these guys to overthrow the ball a little bit and
6:38just miss long and be like, well, if they can't run under it, we're just going to be incomplete here.
6:43But I thought he was he was nails today.
6:46Like that was probably the most accurate. He's looked specifically down the field.
6:49I think in quite a long time. It was really exciting to watch the passing game look like that a week after
6:56it was kind of hit or miss against against the Broncos.
6:59I mean, it was not humming the in the first time we saw my homes back and to see them move the
7:05ball through the air the way that they did and see still have Kenneth Walker be as productive as he was a
7:11really good second act by the Chiefs offense, which again, we will dig into tomorrow.
7:15I don't want to spend too much time on this game.
7:18I will say I'm so glad that they called that.
7:21They said Laquan Treadwell was down because I would be so hard with Laquan Treadwell.
7:25His his journey to this point. I mean, the man has been cut over and over and over again.
7:31And if they had lost that game because he fumbled after making the biggest play he's made.
7:35Maybe in his entire NFL career, it would have been pretty heartbreaking.
7:39Maybe the most way they did. Maybe the most impactful.
7:42I agree. He's one of my OG draft crushes.
7:44I thought I thought he was baby Des Bryant.
7:47I thought he was going to set the league on fire.
7:50And I'm so proud of him for carving out like an 11 year career, even if it didn't look like I thought it would.
7:56People seem to really like him, too. He's very well liked in the building.
8:00Like that's part of why I think he stuck around.
8:03And so I'm glad that the game ended not on that.
8:06I'm glad that that would have made me sad.
8:09It's a funny footnote instead of being the Laquan Treadwell fumble game.
8:12Let's talk about the rest of the games that happened today.
8:15I'll be honest with you. We at the end of the afternoon games every single week, we all get together and we
8:21try to figure out what we're going to talk about on this show.
8:25And there are weeks where it's clean. We know exactly what the first conversation is going to be.
8:30We know exactly what attention is going to be.
8:32We know exactly what the is going to be.
8:35And we sat there today and probably had the longest meeting I can remember us having about how we were going to
8:41sort out the show because of how weird the day was.
8:44And what we landed on the first game we wanted to talk about, because I think you can make an argument and
8:50we can even debate this if you want to.
8:53What was the most impressive, impactful win of the game?
8:56What was the one that you feel like had lasting impact that said the most?
9:00And the game that we landed on is the Cincinnati Bengals beating the Houston Texans.
9:04The Cincinnati Bengals were almost boring in the sense that like they just won this game comfortably on the road and it wasn't the prettiest performance.
9:11And Houston is now 0-2 for I think the third time in the last four years.
9:16We'll see exactly what they're working with as the season goes along.
9:19But and again, even in another loss, this is still a very impressive defense that made life very difficult on the Bengals.
9:25And they went down there and got a very undramatic win.
9:28And I told you this either in the waning minutes of this game or after it was over.
9:33We spend so much time talking about what these teams are doing during the offseason and the stories that they tell themselves
9:40about who they're going to be and why the trades they swung or the draft picks they made are going to matter
9:46and what it's going to make them look like.
9:48And some of that shit has already aged terribly.
9:51But the Cincinnati Bengals are like living the best case scenario of what you could have hoped for for their offseason and
9:57what it was supposed to make them look like.
10:00Like they look exactly like you daydreamed about if you were hoping for a big Bengals season.
10:04I would argue that the offense hasn't even found its stride.
10:07It hasn't. And that they're 2-0 and you have to feel really good about that.
10:12Yeah, and that's what stuck out to me about this game.
10:15Even in the moment when you're watching the Bengals play today, the fact that the offense can they played against the Texans defense.
10:21The Texans defense is good as hell. The Texans if you look at the down to down metrics, which we'll talk about
10:27in a second, the Texans defense was fine in this game.
10:30We had some fantastic, incredible moments from Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase to win the Bengals this game and put up the amount of points that they needed.
10:38But down to down, the Bengals in this game against the Texans, 35.6% offensive success rate, negative 0.15 EPA per play.
10:44Okay. There have been three games in Joe Burrow's tenure where that has happened.
10:48They have hit those two marks and won the football game.
10:51The first one was in 2024 against the Browns when Dorian Thompson Robinson had 24 pass attempts in a game where Deshaun Watson got hurt.
10:58The second one, excuse me, that was the second one.
11:01The first one was a week 18 game in 2022 against Anthony Brown when he was the quarterback for the Ravens.
11:07So we've got Dorian Thompson Robinson, Dorian Thompson Robinson and Anthony Brown were the quarterbacks in the two other games.
11:12The Bengals have won when their offense has had this little production.
11:16And that's not even a criticism of the offense.
11:18It's incredible that they can play like this against a really good defense, not be humming and still have the Bengals win
11:24the game comfortably because of what their defense did in this game.
11:28Derek. I mean, especially to I was after week one, I admit like they played a good run defense game against Tampa for the most part.
11:35But I was like, this is still a lot of new pieces.
11:38Like it's week one. You never know. Like, I want to see it again.
11:42And I think we still have some question marks about like how real was what Houston did running the ball in their first week.
11:49Dexter Lawrence, especially in this game, was insane. But they they really gave the Texans issues and everything that they were doing.
11:55But I think what was part of the saving grace of Houston last week when they were running the ball is they
12:01had a couple of these short yardage plays that were able to get them and can continue to extend their drives.
12:07Cincinnati was dominant in short yardage in this game, and it even kind of scared them off of it.
12:12They had in the middle of that. Yeah. Yes.
12:15In the middle of the second quarter, they went into jumbo and had a fourth and inches where they actually run away from the six offensive linemen.
12:23And Dexter Lawrence is so fast to get into the backfield.
12:26Like Evan Brown should probably be helping his guard a little bit more and just kind of leaves Keelan Rutledge out to dry.
12:32He's not able to get there. It ends up being a loss.
12:35And then the next time they end up in a similar situation, it's fourth and one in the middle of the third quarter.
12:42They choose not to go for it. And then they miss the 58 yard field goal by they miss it short, which
12:48is like a little bit of extra salt in the wound.
12:51And so obviously they lost the game by more than three points, but it was just like that kind of impact their
12:57run defense had on the game, which I don't know the last time I've been able to say that about about a Cincinnati Bengals defense.
13:04Okay, but you can also take that a step further.
13:07They miss that field goal, the 58 yarder where D'Amico Ryans was clearly spooked by the short yardage failure earlier in the game.
13:13It's an indefensible choice. Like it's a completely indefensible choice.
13:16The idea that, well, we haven't been able to move the ball in short yardage.
13:20And so now we have to go for, we have to kick a 58 yard field goal on fourth and one is just horrendous process.
13:27A few snaps. Independent of anything else. A few snaps after that.
13:31So they missed the field goal to stay down 10 to three.
13:34Third and seven on that drive is when Joe Burrow pulls out his Joe Burrow magic.
13:39He's in the grasp of the defensive tackle and flips it out to Samajay Pirine for the conversion.
13:44Incredible play. And it's, it's peak Joe Burrow. And then a handful of snaps after that, he finds Jamar Chase for the
13:50second touchdown, which again is peak Joe Burrow escaping from Will Anderson and getting out of the pocket and directing traffic.
13:56And just, I mean, looking like Joe Burrow at his very best, like Joe and Jamar had two or three really special moments.
14:02And, and that's the difference in this game. Like Jamar Chase said F you twice and Joe Burrow a handful of times.
14:08And it comes like right after this missed field goal.
14:11And with what the Bengals were doing defensively, you go down 17-3 in the second half of this game.
14:16It kind of felt like that was all she wrote.
14:19The play that on that extended play where Chase scores the touchdown after the play to Pirine.
14:24Chase's ability to feel those like zone defenders on that play and take that, take his path just a little bit more vertical to find that space.
14:32It just, what a special, incredible football player. And it doesn't even hold a candle to the other touchdown that he scored.
14:38Like I, I don't even know how to process it just because it's, it's unlike other great catches that are like Pantheon type moments.
14:44But this is where Jamar Chase is at his best.
14:47The body control that he is able to put on display in moments like this, where he, the idea that he can
14:53throttle down, adjust to that ball and somehow get both of those feet in bounds.
14:58I mean, it's one of the best catches I've ever seen.
15:01Like it's probably in the top 10 to 15 that I've ever seen in my entire life.
15:05It's not a one handed catch in the way that we talk about some of these other ones, but the body control
15:12on that play while running full speed is just absolutely insane.
15:15And so those plays are going to happen. Yes.
15:17With this team. When you have Jamar Chase and when you have Joe Burrow, those plays are going to happen.
15:23The question is, can you do enough on the other side of the ball to make three or four of them enough?
15:29And that was the case today for the Bengals.
15:31And we have not seen a team like that in a while.
15:35That we've not seen a version, this version of that team in a while.
15:39To build on the point you made with your stat about success rate, since they drafted Joe Burrow, the Bengals are eight
15:45and 32 when they scored 20 points or less.
15:47And this is only the second time in that stretch that they have scored 20 points or less and won by multiple scores.
15:54And the other, the other one was one of the most heinous games I can remember.
15:58They beat the 2024 Giants 17 to seven in a game that like nobody, nobody wanted to be a part of.
16:04And so to comfortably beat what I still absolutely think is a pretty good Texans team, even if they're 0-2.
16:10It's uncharted territory for the Bengals. We're not used to getting these sorts of performances from them.
16:15The other thing I want to shout out with this Bengals defense as a whole, and I know that they were playing
16:21against like mostly backup players for the Houston Texans.
16:23And I actually thought CJ Stroud was mostly excellent in this game.
16:27But the way that the DBs were just blocking out the sun, especially every time that they were playing man coverage, like
16:33I thought on some of their zone stuff, like CJ Stroud was seeing it well.
16:37And he was able to move the ball down the field.
16:40Didn't amount to many points because obviously they couldn't run the ball whatsoever.
16:44I think they had one successful run in the first half, like it was pretty bad for Houston, but passing the ball, they were fine.
16:51But on every single one on one contested ball, it felt like a Bengals DB was just getting his hand over over
16:57the wide receivers back or he was able to just contest it just enough to make it a drop.
17:02And there were I don't know if I went back and counted them probably four or five balls that like CJ Stroud
17:08put right where you have to against tight coverage and his receivers just weren't able to bring it in.
17:14And so it was just I thought a really impressive performance from the Bengals DBs to be able to like finish a
17:20lot of those plays and maybe against Nico Collins.
17:22You don't do that that many times. But the fact that I think when you go into these games where it's like
17:28we have the advantage as DBs, we should shut them out.
17:32And they completely shut them out in all those one on one scenarios.
17:35I was impressed. Yeah, there was a stretch. I mean, there was I can't remember when the play happened, but there was
17:41a they try to throw a slant with DJ Turner.
17:44I can't remember which receiver it was. And he said, I think it was Wayne.
17:48It was Wayne. That's right. Stroud's holding it. He's holding it.
17:51He's holding it. And he pins it on Wayne and he just isn't able to bring it in because it's good coverage.
17:58That play jumped out. And the one that really jumped out.
18:01And this to me is the sign of a defense that's playing well when you're really marrying the Russian coverage together.
18:06There was a play. Let me find it in my notes here because I want to get this right.
18:12It was early in the third quarter. It was third and 10.
18:15The Bengals were in a cover zero look. They ended up dropping a couple of guys out, but it was a heavy, heavy pressure look.
18:22And the thought is he's going to have to get rid of this ball quick.
18:26Stroud long corks it quickly. And Dax Hill comes down from that cover zero look as the ball is coming out and gets the PBU.
18:33And watching those things happen in concert with one another when the Russian coverage is working together.
18:38That happened a lot for the Bengals today. I mean, all three levels of the defense played extremely well.
18:43But the run defense is what really stuck out.
18:46I just want to go over a couple numbers from what this performance was from the Bengals run defense and the Texans rushing offense.
18:53Per next gen, 13.3% rushing success rate for the Texans in this game.
18:5613.3%. Okay. The Bengals or the Texans had eight runs into light boxes in this game.
19:01Montgomery had five carries or excuse me. Marks had five carries for seven yards.
19:05Montgomery had three carries for five yards. So on their runs into light boxes, the two running backs for the Texans in
19:11this game had eight carries for 12 yards. Dexter Lawrence is a really impactful player.
19:15The idea was if you trade for this man, he is truly a run defense upon himself.
19:20And I think and I even I liked the Dexter Lawrence trade, but I still think that there was fair idea to
19:26look at him and be like, well, the linebackers aren't very good.
19:29And they weren't very good in New York and they could not stop the run either.
19:34But I do think that there's like an overall defensive difference in that in New York, the DBs just weren't good enough to scare you on passing downs.
19:42Whereas I think the Bengals are allowed to get away with certain stuff because their guys can actually cover and like they
19:48don't have to a lot of resources in the same way that New York was having to do.
19:53And it wasn't just Dexter Lawrence. I mean, the play that TJ Slayton makes on that short yardage play where he just dumps.
19:59Trent Brown was incredibly impressive. Jonathan Allen had multiple really nice plays in this game.
20:03Jordan Battle comes downhill for a run stuff at some point in this game.
20:07The other stat that I think is really telling and funny about just the way that the NFL works and being so
20:14week to week and how we don't know anything early in the season.
20:17So the Bengals had the second highest stuff rate among all games in the NFL so far in this game per next gen.
20:24The Bengals defense did. Number one was the Bills against the Lions on Thursday night.
20:28The same Bills defense that the Texans ran the ball pretty well against last week.
20:32There's no way to know jack shit two weeks into this season.
20:35Like we know absolutely nothing. And the same Lions offense that ran all over the Saints week one and were like the best rushing offense in football.
20:43None of this shit makes any sense until like Halloween.
20:46It feels like. I'll say this. I'm worried about.
20:48I am. I am worried about the way the Texans ran the ball in this game because it felt like way too much like last year.
20:56The short yardage stuff, any zone run, they were just getting dumped on the backside.
21:00I think part of it is that Wyatt Teller played Fred Ingram in this game, which may not seem like a huge deal.
21:06Ed Ingram is a much better run blocker at this point in his career than Wyatt Teller is.
21:11You felt that over the course of this game.
21:14But overall, I think even if you average out the two performances we've seen from the Texans offense, what they did today
21:20against the Bengals, even if the Bengals front is playing well, that's going to worry me.
21:24I still am not really worried about the Texans defense.
21:27I said this about Josh Allen coming into the season where I said the only real player that he reminded me of
21:33and just how much of a force of nature he could be over the course of an NFL game is Jamar Chase.
21:39Like in two weeks, they played against these two force of nature players that made like five or six incredible plays over the course of the game.
21:47And that's not going to happen every single week.
21:50Like at their positions, though, they are singular forces in any given moment.
21:53D'Amico Ryan said it after the game that Jamar Chase like came in and delivered.
21:57He was like, this is life in the NFL.
22:00Like you make you get two or three opportunities to make a play in a game like this and you have to answer the bell.
22:07And he I mean, he was kind of calling out his own guys saying like, where are where are our playmakers to my to D'Amico?
22:14I would say he's hurt with a hamstring injury and that is a big part of why the Texans offense, I think,
22:20looked as as hit and miss as it did.
22:23But still, like the Bengals, I don't want to say they weren't great, but like it's like five moments where they just had 35 percent success.
22:30They were not moving the ball consistently. Anderson and Hunter Brown was getting barbecued in this Anderson and Hunter word.
22:35We're giving them fits and it took all of Joe and Jamar Chase being that good to make the difference in a game that they won by 13.
22:43Like I'm really I'm not very worried about the Texans, even if they are own to.
22:48But it's an 0 and 2 start where you're always threading a little bit of a needle with how good you needed your offense to be.
22:55And even if I do think Stroud has played pretty well over these first couple of weeks, enough concerns about the state
23:01of the offensive line in the run game coming off of what last season looked like that I don't think that part should be ignored.
23:08And unfortunately, I'm past the point of just counting on Nico Collins's availability.
23:12Like I want him back as quickly as possible, but that is becoming a trend.
23:16All right, let's get to a few other performances today that really stuck out.
23:20It's time for You Have My Attention. Gentlemen, now you have my attention.
23:24After putting up what I thought was probably the most disappointing performance in week one, the Denver Broncos came back and had
23:30arguably the most impressive performance in the NFL right there with what the Bengals did in week two.
23:35The Broncos knock off the Jags 20 to 13, a significantly more impressive day from their offense than what we saw in week one.
23:42The Denver Broncos beating a Jags team that looks really, really good in week one.
23:46You firmly have our attention. I'm breathing the biggest sigh of relief right now.
23:50Like they were because of the wind's pool. Not even the wind's pool.
23:53I've pushed so many chips in on Denver. I just, and I don't need all of it to hit, but I just
23:59didn't want them to look as abysmal as they did on Monday night.
24:03And honestly, halfway through the first half of this game, I was like, oh no, it wasn't an aberration.
24:08They just suck. And so them pulling out of the nosedive was, uh, I was feeling much better by the end of the day.
24:15It felt like on both offense and defense, they just found such a different gear.
24:19Like I thought in the second half, some of what they were doing to Trevor Lawrence and to the passing offense, I thought was incredible.
24:26Like the interception that Trevor Lawrence throws down the left side, like Denver's in this blitz look and they've got everybody on
24:32the line of scrimmage and they pop off into Tampa too.
24:36And so Trevor thinks, okay, I've got my guy on the left side running down.
24:40He's going to be in the hole, but because there's no other immediate threat there holding the cover to corner down, Riley
24:46Moss just like runs up and runs under it.
24:48And so I thought them toying with him that way was really impressive.
24:52And then it felt like, especially on their last couple of drives, they were doing a lot of, like, I remember there
24:58was one play where they had Jaquan McMillan run across the field with emotion and look like they're going to be man.
25:04They pop out into this zone. Look, Trevor double clutches and almost throws another interception.
25:09They were just doing stuff like that more consistently and more successfully in the second half.
25:13They weren't playing much man in the second half.
25:16I think it was like 20 percentage man in the second half.
25:19It was a lot of zone that play really stuck out as well, where McMillan at just McMillan and Riley Moss period.
25:25Yes. Played extremely well in this game. Like the other corners, PS2 also had his moments.
25:30There was a couple one, the couple that stood out where he's just there.
25:33The play on where they try to get strange on like the little angle route in the third quarter where he widens
25:40a little bit to break it back in. Sertan never moves.
25:43He's just sitting there the entire time. And he didn't have like the PBUs and the splash plays that Moss and McMillan did in this game.
25:50But you just watch how steady of a presence he is.
25:53And that trio of corners overall in this game, I just thought played extremely well.
25:57But where this was one to me for the Broncos and it to me, that's what this is.
26:02It's such a contrast from what we were talking about coming out of week one.
26:06They whipped ass up front on both sides of the ball in this game.
26:10They dominated on both sides of the ball in a way that they kind of got pushed around in week one.
26:16And that when we talked about it in real time, it was just disappointing.
26:20Like when you have invested this much and the identity of your team is what you can do in pass protection on
26:26offense and what you can do getting after the quarterback on defense.
26:30And you do none of them. It's like, well, what are you supposed to be?
26:34And to watch them bounce back Denver in the way that they did on both sides of the ball today.
26:40That to me is what was so encouraging for the Jags.
26:4319.4% pressure rate per next gen in this game, despite blitzing on 45% of dropbacks.
26:47It's a non-starter. It's going to be really hard to even have a passable defensive performance under those circumstances.
26:52And on the other side of the ball, the Broncos had a 45.2% pressure rate.
26:56And you felt that. I mean, Pregnant looked really good in week one.
27:00Harrison looked really good in week one. You felt how young Pregnant was in this game.
27:04You saw Ezra Cleveland struggle in this game. They're not going to play the Broncos every week, but some of the concerns
27:11we had about this group in pass protection showed up against Denver in a way that it did not show up against Cleveland last week.
27:18And not even just against the Stars. There was one play that Anton Harrison got like run over by Q Robinson, who
27:24was one of the backup guys for this Denver team.
27:27And so, I mean, obviously, Denver's even backups are like pretty impressive relative to the rest of the league.
27:32But it was a day where like they really struggled to protect the quarterback the way that they want to, which was
27:38kind of always, even though I'm still very high on what this Jags offense can be like, that's always what this is
27:44going to look like when it doesn't go right.
27:47It's the run game starts to fall away just a little bit.
27:50And then it's like we're in a little too many pure pass situations than we want to be.
27:55And we can't protect it, especially against some of these fronts that really do like to blitz you and bring pressure, like a Vance Joseph style of team.
28:03I just think overall, the physicality from the Jags offense wasn't where it needs to be if they're going to be a
28:09team that sticks around until the end. Up front, you felt that.
28:12And then Brian Thomas Jr. just continues to be frustrating in some of those moments.
28:17That ball that he doesn't pull in with like 1030 left in the fourth quarter, like that ball has to be caught.
28:23That ball is on him. You are not getting a lot of opportunities in this game offensively in the second half because
28:29of what the Broncos are doing to you. And for that to fall incomplete when you only have a couple of scattered
28:35moments that you have to take advantage of. Again, I just think overall, they got pushed around on that side of the
28:41ball in a way that they did not against the Browns.
28:44And in a way the Broncos did not do last week against the Chiefs.
28:48The funny thing is, though, and some of the physicality I would agree with, but like the execution was still there up until like Trevor threw that interception.
28:56Like he was he was dialed in. Yeah, he was.
28:59He absolutely was. The two minute drive to get the field goal before half.
29:03He threw three straight completions. He had like an 11 yard curl to Parker Washington, a short little dig in cut to BTJ.
29:09And then he had an 18 yard little post where he like sat it down right.
29:14He basically had to sit down to catch the ball.
29:17Just he was just ripping incredible throws like one after the other.
29:20And then he talked about it after the game.
29:22Football players, big, big believers in momentum. And like he talked about like from the interception, Denver goes and scores right after that.
29:29And he said it just felt like it snowballed away from them.
29:32And you could feel it like you could. It just felt like a completely different team after two, three minutes into the
29:38third quarter than what we saw up to that point.
29:41On offense for the Broncos, the play, the one play I want to talk about before we get into just the overall quality of the offense.
29:48Did you guys see what Quinn Miners did? Yeah.
29:51On that Jonah Coleman run late in the fourth quarter.
29:54If we're talking about Ross Tucker, like singled it out and was like, look how freaking cool this is.
29:59I didn't realize that. I saw Washington in real time.
30:02I mean, he just absolutely buries a guy on the Jonah Coleman run with like three minutes left in the fourth quarter.
30:08And again, that's just the type of stuff we didn't see enough of last week against the Chiefs.
30:13And it was fun to watch that group up front play like that.
30:17But to me, the other just huge difference in what the Broncos offense felt like is we go from a game where
30:23they refuse to push the ball downfield whatsoever to a game where they seem more than comfortable doing it.
30:28And just think about how different the offense felt because of that.
30:32Last week, 3.8 air yards per attempt. 21% of their throws went to the sticks in week one for Denver.
30:37Today, 9.2 air yards per attempt. 45% of those throws.
30:40Go to the sticks. And I had there was a couple throws that Bo Nix made in this game.
30:45We could talk about it. That are a couple of my favorite plays he has ever made that I've ever seen him make as an NFL quarterback.
30:53Like their willingness to be more aggressive and to push the ball and get Jalen Waddell involved along with the quality that we saw up front.
31:00It just was such a different feeling version of the Broncos offense against a very good Jags defense.
31:05Well, and this is what I thought the passing offense should look like with Bo Nix.
31:10And I do think part of like them attacking the sticks a little bit more and being willing to throw down the
31:16field is what you mentioned with the pressure rate.
31:18Like I just thought they protected him better. And so he gets a lot a little bit more comfortable doing that.
31:24But like the first big post that he throws to Waddell, it's like this little gun bootleg to the right.
31:30And he just sets up and just chucks it like he can do that.
31:34Like he's he has a very talented arm. I thought there were a handful of other circumstances where they were booting him
31:40and rolling him and sprinting him out of the pocket, which they had a lot of success doing that last season.
31:46And then I thought in this game, too, there were three or four like really impressive outside the numbers, like deep outbreakers,
31:52cuts, overs, all that sort of stuff. Those are some of his best throws is to make those deep throws outside the
31:58numbers because he does have the arm for it.
32:01And so if he feels like he's protected and he feels like he can make those throws, he obviously has the arm talent to do it.
32:08I think getting him to do it on every single game is going to be difficult.
32:12But this game, he was that he played really, really well.
32:15The drive for them to tie the game at 13 was beautiful.
32:19It starts with like a big completion to Atkins with like 26 seconds left in the third quarter.
32:24So why why looks to the left? They run play action.
32:27Jerry and Jones get sucked inside a little bit.
32:29They throw the big corner out to Atkins on the same drive.
32:33The throw he has to Waddle with the Jags brought a blitz.
32:36And it's I think it's Branson Combs dropping and Waddle has not cleared him yet coming over the middle of the field.
32:42And he lets that thing rip before he sees it.
32:45And again, I haven't watched every throw Bo Nix has ever had in his entire career.
32:50I watched that play and I think that is my favorite throw I have ever seen him make.
32:55It's to the middle of the field. It requires a little bit of trust.
32:58It requires some aggression. And you just don't see that all the time from him.
33:03And so to see that version of him and play with that sort of confidence and anticipation and aggressiveness, we just didn't see that in week one.
33:10And I think we're going to need to see it for this to be the sort of team they want to be this year.
33:17You know what else I noticed on that throw?
33:19Pass protection from the back. Yeah. Much better. RJ Harvey did not play in this game.
33:24I wonder. I think it was Beatty. It was really nice moments in pass protection, which, you know, like the Broncos have
33:30spent big draft picks on a couple of running backs.
33:33But if Tyler Bidet gives you the better chance at Bo making throws like that, I wonder what that's going to look like.
33:39There's one play, even though the Broncos played exceptionally well on offense, especially in the second half.
33:44And I don't even mean this to shit on Bo Nix.
33:47I actually didn't even really think that this was his fault necessarily.
33:51I thought it was a great play by the Jaguars.
33:53The interception that Jordan Lewis gets in the end zone is an unbelievable play.
33:57Like they're basically playing cover zero, like zone cover zero.
34:00And they're trying to run that like double China where you get to.
34:04They actually start breaking them out towards the flat and then they break them back in.
34:08But they're trying to get those in cuts so that they can throw the corner over it.
34:13Jordan Lewis is the like middle of the three DBs.
34:16And he kind of just lets the underneath guy go and then floats on top of it.
34:20And that to me is like he's either freelancing or this is like a really impressive zone adjustment that they've made where
34:27two and three are going to be like, hey, one of us is going to play in.
34:31One of us is going to play out. And for him to float under that, like whether that's coaching, whether that's him
34:38going freelance, like I don't even put that on the quarterback.
34:41Like you throw that ball every time. And the DB just made an exceptional play.
34:45Two guys I want to shout out on the Broncos defense before we leave.
34:49Zach Allen got both of these guards. There was a one, there was one series where he had two wins in succession
34:55against both of them to torpedo the series. And the other guy that I love when we have players that have super
35:01specific skill sets and they work in a certain defense, they might not work everywhere.
35:05Justin Starnott is just perfect for the way that this team wants to play.
35:09Like, I don't know what he would be if you put him in another situation where he wasn't blitzing all the time
35:15and he wasn't just playing downhill all the time, but he had so they were firing those linebackers in this game, Derek.
35:21Like they were coming downhill on run plays and making plays in the backfield because of it.
35:26Starnott had a couple of those. He always shows up as a blitzer and on stunts.
35:31He's just so, I mean, he's like a battering ram, like just like the space he creates for other people.
35:36And so both Zach Allen and Starnott. And again, when this defense is playing well, it's guys like that that you feel over the course of the game.
35:44And I think you felt both of those guys today.
35:47Well, and specifically with Starnott, what did we say about what this passing offense might do to them?
35:52It's that if the Jaguars have their way and get what they want, they're going to throw over these linebackers and throw
35:58over the middle and all that stuff. Well, if we're just firing them and replacing them with somebody else, you've kind of solved the problem.
36:05And so I think that them doing that so effectively, that's how you end up winning a game like this.
36:11I thought that that was really impressive. All right, before we move on, let's take a quick break.
36:16Let's get to our next one here. The New Orleans Saints, a week after nearly beating the Lions in overtime, go into
36:22Baltimore and beat the Ravens and really show a lot on offense yet again with a young quarterback that meets the moment yet again.
36:29The New Orleans Saints, one on one, we're on the cusp of being two and oh, you guys officially have our attention.
36:35What a fun team. Fun team. Fun. What a fun couple of fourth quarters here the last couple of weeks with, you
36:41know, rallying against the Lions and what I mean, this game was it was before halftime that they kicked the field goal going into the break.
36:48But like from 14 to three to winning this game 24-17, I don't know where I want to start because obviously like when Tyler.
36:55Weird game. Yes. Like when Tyler Shuck did what he did, you want to start there.
36:59But also I was so impressed by Brandon Saleh's defense in particularly in the second half and what they were able to do against Lamar Jackson.
37:07If you look at the numbers overall, the Ravens actually moved the ball pretty consistently in this game.
37:12It was a lot of just weird shooting yourself in the foot moments combined with the Saints defense making enough plays to win the game.
37:19I don't want to discredit what they did. But there were some really frustrating moments from the Ravens in this game, like
37:25multiple screens that turn into negative plays because Henry can't get out cleanly and they just get totally blown up.
37:31And then obviously the biggest play of the game is Lamar takes that shot to Chris Moore on third and one.
37:36Yes. Which probably doesn't need to happen if he hangs on that for another second.
37:41I think it was Bateman coming open on like the deep outbreaker.
37:44And so that choice and then not choosing to go for it on fourth and one.
37:48That's a little bit of a that's a that's a turning point moment in the game.
37:53But there were several just frustrating second down plays specifically in the second half for the Ravens that ultimately did them in.
37:59I'm glad you brought up the third and one.
38:02And I agree with you. Like I many things the Ravens could have done differently.
38:06But what a fun play by Kool-Aid McKinstry. Yeah.
38:08To poke that thing out. Like a really good recovery by him on that play.
38:12Quincy Riley had his own PBU in this game like that.
38:16This defense I do think has some juice to it.
38:18Like I do think that this is going to be a defense after the way they played in the second half of
38:25last year over the course of the year. That's going to be a solid unit.
38:29And speaking of firing linebackers, I mean, you know, Caden Ellis is going to do that.
38:33But Caden Ellis and Pete Werner both were like Brandon Staley.
38:36I think they combined for like five pressures and a sack on Lamar.
38:40This is going to be a blitz team. That's why they signed Caden Ellis in free agency because they're going to be
38:46at their best when they're sending a lot of pressure.
38:49And they did in this game. I think they finished.
38:52So the Saints in this game finished with a 44% blitz rate and a 44% pressure rate.
38:56And that doesn't even account for some of the simulators that they sent.
39:00I mean, the amount of times that we have second level defenders coming toward the quarterback for the Saints defense, that is
39:06going to be a fixture of what this team is defensively this year.
39:10I think the drive that kind of actually explains everything that we were just talking about.
39:14It was late in the third quarter. The I forget exactly what happened on the play, but the or maybe it was
39:21just a false start, but the Ravens end up in first and 15.
39:24They call a screen to Derek Henry that loses three yards.
39:27So now it's second and 18. Then they fire Pete Werner at Derek Henry in pass protection.
39:32He gives it up and now it's third and 25.
39:35And obviously the drive is over. And it just the entire second half felt like that stuff like that for the Baltimore Ravens.
39:41I do think. I'm a little bit worried about the defense, actually.
39:45I don't think that they played all that well in this game.
39:48I think that they were just a lot of situations, especially late in this game where you felt the Ravens did not have wide receiver talent anymore.
39:55And I really I think the Ravens should have kept running the ball.
39:59Yeah, I do think part of the reason they didn't is some of the shooting your foot ending up in first and 15, all this stuff.
40:06But they had they were like a 60 percent rushing success rate in this game.
40:11They were forgot about Derek Henry in the second half of this game.
40:14That's totally fair to say. Didn't it feel like a young play caller kind of just like having one of those moments,
40:20like just lost the feel of the game a little bit?
40:23And again, I think he's going to be really good at this.
40:27And like the design of the offense is phenomenal.
40:29But that's just going to happen to younger play callers where just like game starts to slip away.
40:34Weird stuff is happening. You're getting some of these penalties.
40:37The offense on the other side is starting to make you score points and stuff like that just starts to fall away.
40:43Yeah, I think that's fair. I still have a relative level, like a reasonable level of confidence in the Saints defense overall,
40:50because I do think that they if you look at it like their ability to bow up against the run in some
40:56big moments in this game, they were still able to do that.
40:59Like the biggest play their run defense made in the entire game.
41:02There's a second and three in the fourth quarter set up that third and one throw where Kobe wouldn't makes a really
41:09nice play to kind of shove that thing back inside.
41:11It's a two yard game. They set up the third and one and that the game kind of changes there.
41:17But I just think that the combination of what they can do as a pressure team, Chase Young, again, having multiple really standout moments in this game.
41:24I think the Ravens are going to be a good offense over the course of this season.
41:29But I think that both of those things can be true.
41:32I think that we can acknowledge the fact that the Ravens are going to be really good on offense, that Declan Doyle
41:38had some moments he probably wants back in this game.
41:41The Saints defense down to down did not play great.
41:44But over the course of the season, I think they're probably going to be OK.
41:48I think that's where I land with it overall.
41:51I think the past defense, I agree with that.
41:53The run defense, I want to see more. It's two weeks in a row now where they've gotten shish kebobbed by these teams.
42:00Like, I think, where did I have the number?
42:0264% of the Ravens run gained at least five yards.
42:05Not even just like successful run, five yards. Like, they were popping them for a lot of this game.
42:10I do think the past defense will be good.
42:13But the run defense, I'm a little scared. I hear you.
42:16And I know that Zay Flowers and Jacoby Lane are hurt.
42:19But the Ravens were like eight and a half point favorites in this game.
42:23Like, this, I mean, this was supposed to be a comfortable win for Baltimore.
42:27And it looked like it was going to be up until early third quarter, midway, like late third quarter.
42:32And so, I mean, even if it wasn't perfect, I think the Saints defense was gritty and impressive and rose to the
42:38occasion, especially considering what the Baltimore offense looked like last week.
42:41And that's exactly what I would say about the Saints offense and their quarterback.
42:45What he did in the second half of this game.
42:48In the second half, per next gen, Tyler Shuck, 15 of 19 for 150 yards, 54.5% success rate, .33 EPA per dropback.
42:54And, I mean, you just watch how he was doing it.
42:57I was so impressed in both of those touchdown drives in the second half.
43:01Third and five on the first one, simulated pressure.
43:04He hits Olave sitting in the hook, like the safety having to come down from depth.
43:08He has to make that decision really quickly, gets the ball out.
43:12The touchdown to Olave on that drive is a beautiful design.
43:15He comes in motion and then he runs the big post back behind it.
43:19It's like a perfect quarters beater in that situation.
43:21Shuck rips that ball for a touchdown. The next drive, they get the ball back.
43:25Olave, by the way, Olave looks f***ing crazy. Like, he just looks so good.
43:29And the touchdown is potentially an example of that.
43:32But the one that really jumps out to me, on their game-winning touchdown drive, he pushes vertical against Wiggins and then throttles
43:38back down on a deep comeback for a 15-yard chunk.
43:41Third and six. Shuck gets the ball quickly to Valle to set up a fourth and one.
43:46They get Wiggins lost on a bunch with five minutes left.
43:49The play that Olave makes on third and two on that final drive, the physical catch that he makes against Marlon Humphrey
43:55in the left flat to keep that drive alive was incredibly impressive.
43:58And then the third and six completion to Juwan Johnson that gets them down the field.
44:03I mean, Trey Hendrickson is coming untouched on that play.
44:05Tyler Shuck stands in, stares down the barrel of the gun, gets drilled, and delivers that ball to Juwan Johnson, who makes
44:12the play and takes it down inside like the 10-yard line.
44:15But, I mean, just consistently, you talk about rising to the moment and just a gritty performance.
44:19For the second week in a row, when they needed him to make a bunch of nails throws, Tyler Shuck did it again.
44:26Tyler Shuck threw a pass on 10 third downs in this game.
44:29He completed nine of the 10 passes and converted seven of the 10 third downs.
44:33And one of the non-conversions was the one you just mentioned, the five-yard completion to Valle that set up a fourth and short.
44:40So that's not a third down conversion, but it's pretty damn good.
44:43I mean, like he was unstoppable on the money downs in this game.
44:47The offense I buy. Like, he looks even better than he did.
44:50He looks like just a better version of what he was last year.
44:54And I think part of what has been so impressive to me with him is just how quickly the ball comes out.
45:00And like how clean and obvious the way that he operates is.
45:03Like, it's just there are some quarterbacks that you watch and you don't feel like they have a consistent process with the way that they're doing things.
45:11I feel like Shuck, if you gave me a snapshot at any point in the down, I could tell you what he's
45:17going to do because he just like he just plays the game in such a consistent way.
45:22And then on top, I think that part you could have sold me on, like coming out of college, coming off his rookie year, all that stuff.
45:29I'm shocked at how dynamic he is. Like, like you said, willing to just stare down the barrel of the gun.
45:35I think when he his ability to make plays is funny.
45:38I posted this on Blue Sky. I think when he's like getting off the blocks, he's not that impressive of an athlete.
45:45But once the first guy misses or once he steps up into space and starts moving and accelerating the way he sees
45:51downfield, the throws that he's willing to make, I think he's a much more impressive playmaker than I thought.
45:56There was one play in the second quarter where he like scoots up into his right and finds a lot of it like 20 yards down the field.
46:04And just I didn't know how much of that we were going to get from him.
46:08And so the fact that we're getting that and he is handling what is a pure drop back offense, honestly, that puts
46:14a lot on his shoulders to replace blitzes and throw hot and all this stuff.
46:19And other than the first half of last week against the Lions, I think he's done it very, very well.
46:24So he's an interesting athlete. He's not twitchy in the short area, but his he's good in a straight line.
46:30Like he's explosive enough in a straight line. And when he gets out into space, he can make plays out of structure.
46:36And so it's just like a weird combination of stuff where he is athletic, but in a very specific way.
46:42He's like you, you have to push him down the hill.
46:45And then once he gets pushed down the hill and he's accelerated, he can just snowball and start making things happen.
46:51But you got to push him and nudge him down.
46:53You saw Anthony Weaver called him a poor man's Josh Allen heading into the game.
46:58And Chuck, you know, he had a fun little comment afterward about that getting him fired up for the game and him
47:04appreciating the spirit of it, I guess. But I mean, if the shoe fits right.
47:08I, again, for the second straight week, just very impressed by what he was doing on some of those really high leverage
47:14plays in the second half of a very close game.
47:17I think it's worth noting, too, the Saints lost Kelvin Banks pretty early in this game.
47:21And so for Chuck to perform and for Kellen Moore to mitigate that, you know, they were giving him a lot of help.
47:28There were a lot of chips. He usually had a back or a tight end.
47:32Awesome Richard stepped in. But to get that performance without a left tackle that, you know, a very promising left tackle, because
47:38when I heard that news, I was like, oh, no, Tyler Shuck is screwed.
47:42Like Baltimore is going to just pick on that all day long.
47:45And they were able to avoid it. Another one of those frustrating early seasons Raven losses, which, you know, they seem to have one every single year.
47:53They're frustrating, but I think not something to be overly concerned about is where I land on it.
47:58I just think the Saints are going to be a really plucky team over the course of the season.
48:03We have one more entry here into you have my attention, and I think this speaks to the weirdness of the day.
48:09Both the Packers and Eagles. You had my attention at the end of those games in a way that I didn't necessarily expect.
48:16I didn't think you'd be having my attention against the Jets and Titans late in those games, but they did because they were close.
48:23And I feel like we should talk about both of them.
48:26Where do you want to start? Which of these games stood out to you the most?
48:30Probably Packers. Excuse me. No, probably Eagles-Titans, honestly. Just because I, A, I thought based on the way the Titans played last
48:36week, I thought even a flawed Eagles team would make pretty quick work of that.
48:41And then the end of the game was just incredibly entertaining between, you know, the Nick Sirianni gaffe that gave the Titans an extra down.
48:48And TyJ Spears converts from 23 yards out, even with Robert Sala, like not even trying to pick up a first down.
48:54And then Robert Sala immediately just going back to that very conservative well and deciding that a field goal is going to
49:00be good enough to beat the Eagles. And for all the hell that he catches, sometimes deservingly so, Jalen Hurts was phenomenal
49:06getting them down the field for that game-winning touchdown.
49:09Like just two or three just badass throws. Like, I mean, the one that got him down near the goal line to Devontae Smith was just absolutely awesome.
49:16And so, like, the two-minute drill in this game was riveting and very fun to watch, even if I didn't see it coming.
49:23He had two of those very similar sorts of concepts where they're like a short outbreaker underneath and then the corner out behind it.
49:30And he just throws those corner outs beautifully. Like, that to me is the best throw that he makes, and he made several of them in this game.
49:37I think on the final drive, he hits one to Wicks on the right side and then comes back to Devontae Smith on the left side.
49:45But Devontae Smith was phenomenal in this game. I mean, just when everything he brings to the table, it's cool to watch him get these sorts of opportunities.
49:52The play he makes on that ball, he has to go get it.
49:56He had a deep comeback where he, like, comes back to the ball.
50:00He just, you just, it's cool to see him featured as the number one receiver and the best receiver in an offense
50:06because it's just such a reminder of just how preternaturally talented Devontae Smith is.
50:10Like, it just, he's the most productive college receiver we've ever seen.
50:13And you just see the little tiny things. He does incredibly well at the position.
50:17And so many of those were on display in this game.
50:20I mean, we always say it, but like him and T Higgins for a long time, we're like, you're not a number two because you're a number two.
50:28You're just a number two because you had to be.
50:31And so to get him to be able to do that, I think is, is really incredible.
50:36I'm so glad you brought up all the outbreakers that he threw because I think that that's when Jalen Hurts has been
50:42at his best in any other previous iteration of this offense.
50:45It's outbreakers that he's thrown, sale routes, corner routes, just like anything deep and breaking outside of the numbers.
50:50And so I think in that sense, you got like vintage Jalen Hurts.
50:54I also think we got like a different version of him than we usually see, which is that this was only one
51:00of four games in Hurts's career with more than 10 throws between the numbers beyond five yards.
51:05It's one of only four times in his entire career that he's done that.
51:09And it's not just that he was throwing that area of the field and willing to do it the way that he
51:15was hanging in the pocket and just like willing to hang in there and wait for that throw to come.
51:21That's just not something that we had always got in previous versions of the offense, like even when they were really good in 24.
51:27That's just not really what he did. And so whether or not this is a flash in the pan or if that's
51:34something he can continue to do, we'll see. But that was the vision for the offense is that you could get that
51:40out of him on top of some of the other vintage throws that we got from him outside the numbers.
51:45So if they can continue to get a little bit of both worlds from him in that sense, and Devonta Smith is
51:51going to play like a receiver who can get like 14, 1500 yards.
51:55OK, we can we can start to sell myself.
51:58I would 100 percent agree. I think that's exactly where I would land with this, where it's the it's the blend that you want to see.
52:05It's all of those things happening together to throw that.
52:08So when I was at training camp and we were talking about this, the idea of him trying to access the middle
52:14of the field more and how this offense could push him to do that.
52:18The argument was, well, the way that we're playing and what we're asking him to do with his feet and the timing
52:24we're asking him to play with his feet are going to take him to those throws.
52:28And you hear that. And that's a cool thing to hear on like August 10th.
52:33And you're like, all right, how is that actually going to play out?
52:36The dagger he hits to Wicks with like 12 minutes left in the first quarter.
52:40It's third and 12. And you watch this play unfold.
52:43And he has one hitch to the left, two hitches back to the middle on the on the end breaker.
52:49And he throws it on that second hitch to Wicks on that dagger.
52:52And he completes it for a huge chunk gain.
52:55It's like, how many times have you ever seen him do that, Derek?
52:59Not nearly enough. It felt like I watched it.
53:01You got him at two hands. I mean, like it just doesn't happen.
53:05It felt like I watched. It felt like I watched half of the throws that he's made his entire career of that kind in this game.
53:12Yes. And that's probably an over exaggeration. But like it truly felt like I don't know how many times I've really seen him make that throw.
53:19Watching him do that in rhythm. And then the other element of it that is Jalen Hurts at his best is him making plays, extending plays.
53:27It's just buying enough time with his feet to make explosive plays happen.
53:30He had a 14 yard completion on third and eight to Makai Lemon early in the game where he just it's a
53:36slightly off schedule play where he's buying himself just a little bit of space.
53:40And then the Devante Smith touchdown is that where he's escaping out to his right.
53:44He's keeping his eyes downfield and he's making an explosive play.
53:48And so I just think on so many levels, the first pick, it's a bad play that you want back.
53:53The second pick, he's getting hit as he throws that ball.
53:56Jeffrey Simmons just toasts Cam Juergens on that play.
53:59And that's why that ball is under thrown. And he had him.
54:02Yeah, he had him. And that's, I mean, that's the Jalen Hurts isn't under throwing a lot of deep balls.
54:08Like that is, that's one thing he does extremely well.
54:11And so watching that ball get so badly under thrown as a product of him getting hit.
54:15That to me, if I were trying to pinpoint the area of concern I have about the Eagles offense, is that the
54:21offensive line still in its current state with Juergens moving over and just the lack of run game again, they had a
54:2833% offensive success rate in this game. I know Saquon Barkley was out for a good chunk of it, but 32 carries for 89 yards.
54:35Like, and I think it even speaks to how impressive that Hurts performance is.
54:39The fact that for the second straight week, he's really had to do the heavy lifting for this offense.
54:44And I think that's a really encouraging place to be just for his performance.
54:48Overall, as an Eagles fan watching this, it's not the offense that you were promised at its best because the run game hasn't been clicking so far.
54:55But for the second straight week, I thought you, I think you have to be really happy with how Hurts played.
55:01Yeah, it's definitely like in the noon window when everything's going on and you're checking over to see if Philly is pulling away and they're not.
55:08And then all of a sudden they're trailing. It's very easy to like that.
55:12What's wrong with the Eagles? What's wrong with the Eagles?
55:15What is going on? For the second straight week, it felt like that.
55:19But in reality, he played well for the second straight week.
55:22Not to say it was good. And Saquon, I mean, Saquon got hurt in this game.
55:26That's something to monitor. The offensive line continues to not look impressive.
55:30But just going back and watching Jalen Hurts, I was nowhere near as discouraged by this as in the moment.
55:35I was like, holy shit, are they going to lose to the Titans?
55:39Like, what's going on? I don't think it was that bad.
55:42And part of the reason that they almost lost to the Titans is that the Titans offense showed some life in this game.
55:48We had some really nice moments from Cam Ward in this game, which is.
55:52Who knows what this will look like over the course of the season?
55:56If you're a Titans fan, after the way that week one looked and after the way that last year looked, having this
56:02offense and him show some signs of life has to be such a relief.
56:06Who knows how long it'll last, but I would be incredibly relieved if I were a Titans fan watching the way that they played today.
56:13It was the third highest EPA per drop back of his career in one of, I think, only five games that was at average or better.
56:20And so, like, it was a genuinely nice performance.
56:23And I thought that I think part of that, too, is like the run game kind of worked a little bit at spurts in this game for them.
56:31And it was able to allow them to, like, just not be in a million third and eights or feel like they
56:37had to rely on the screen game to get things going.
56:40Like, I thought Cam Ward did really make a handful of really impressive plays.
56:44And so he even even as a runner, like there was he had the scramble out to his left in the end
56:50zone that gets him like in where he just gets over the pylon.
56:54So I thought the fact that he looked the way that he did against the Eagles defense that.
56:59I think has not been quite as good as I wanted them to be out of the gates, but still think will
57:05be one of the best eight defenses by the end of the season.
57:09I think that it was like a pretty encouraging performance.
57:11The other team that won ugly and we didn't expect it to be that close near the end was the Green Bay
57:17Packers who pull out a win over the New York Jets in, I would say, messier fashion.
57:22Yeah. Than what we got from the Eagles. This required a lot of nonsense for the Packers to win this game in a bunch of different ways.
57:30I've got some silly numbers if you want to put one on it.
57:33Here's what I got. In the last 25 years, there are three games in which a team has committed at least 14
57:40penalties and put five fumbles on the ground. So not lost them, but put the ball on the ground.
57:45It's an 07 loss by the Bears. That sounds right.
57:48A 2016, right? A 2016 win by the Miami Dolphins and this game by the Packers.
57:5214 penalties and five fumbles on the ground. They really only honestly won this game in large part because Skymore was insane as a returner.
57:59Like he made multiple like put them into scoring position returns like that probably saved them.
58:04And otherwise, I don't know if they win this game.
58:06Real monkeys paw situation with the Packers. We're going to give you decent special teams now, but your offense has to struggle in this way.
58:13If it's going to happen, you have to make a trade off.
58:17I don't think they win this game without Skymore's 63 yarder.
58:20He outgained them, by the way. Skymore had like 208 return yards and the Packers offense at 199 yards of offense.
58:26I mean, just a couple of moments from the Jets in this game.
58:29The overall competency level from the Jets is so much better than it was last year.
58:34But so many just frustrating gaffes down the stretch that allowed the Packers to win this game.
58:39The one that ultimately didn't come back to bite them, but was completely indefensible in the moment.
58:43Aaron Glenn not calling timeout with 51 seconds left and allowing the Packers to get a free Hail Mary.
58:49That didn't end up mattering. But even as it was happening, I said the moment that play ended, I was like, we're not going to call timeout there.
58:57You were on top of it immediately. You had 51 seconds left.
59:00And what were they going to do? They weren't going to use that time.
59:04And so giving them a free roll Hail Mary and then the stretch after that big Brees Hall catch where the Jets
59:10botched that pitch that goes for a huge loss.
59:13And then Cooper gets home on a sack. And then on the next drive, they end up not going for it on
59:19the fourth and one and kicking the field goal and allowing the Packers to get back into the game.
59:24Skymore, some very sketchy decision making from the Jets and just some self-inflicted wounds.
59:28And a defensive front that really did keep the Packers in this game.
59:32The pride of Barrington High School, Lucas Van Ness, career day.
59:35Brother. Against Armand Membu, by the way. Like, not hollow stats.
59:38That was pretty eye-popping. If I was looking for a real positive takeaway from this game, that's probably where I'd start.
59:44Nine pressures. Lucas Van Ness made the game-winning play.
59:46The game-winning play. Like, the fourth and one stop on that, like, inside zone.
59:50He ends the game. Nine pressures, five quick pressures, a sack and a half, and the game-winning play on fourth and one.
59:56That's pretty dang good for a guy that, is this year four for him?
60:00Like, we've been saying every year, it's like, oh, is this going to be the breakout?
60:05Is this going to be the breakout? And you saw, like, sprinkles of it at the end of last year.
60:10But so much was wrong with the Packers defense that was like, is this really going to materialize to anything?
60:16And through two weeks, he's been really, really good.
60:18Other small, like, when is this guy going to break out ever?
60:22Robert, I'm sure you noticed this. The Jets seem to really like A.D.
60:25Mitchell down the field. Like, they really seem to want to target him.
60:29And, like, I was kind of impressed with some of the plays that he made.
60:33I'm not going to lie. I don't know what to make of this game and really just what to make of the Packers two weeks into the season.
60:41Like, what should we think about the Green Bay Packers right now?
60:44Well, let's start here. Because, honestly, like... I'm worried.
60:47For the... I mean, how could you not be having watched these two weeks?
60:51But burying the lead a little bit, I mean, it doesn't reflect how the Packers managed to overcome and win this game.
60:57But they lost... All right. Jaden Reed is tough, too.
61:00Obviously, they lose Jaden Reed. But they lost Zach Bacobuwele, Aaron Banks, and Donovan Jennings all got hurt in this game.
61:06And I don't know... We don't know the severity of those yet.
61:09I do know Zach Bacobuwele was put in an aircast.
61:12And Matt LaFleur already confirmed after the game that he's going to miss some time.
61:16I don't know the timetable for sure. But he sure as hell isn't going to be available for the next game.
61:22Because do you know when that is? Thursday night.
61:24So you're on a short week dealing with an offensive line that had three guys go down today.
61:29What? Against the Atlanta Falcons on Thursday night. One of three straight primetime games by the Atlanta Falcons.
61:34We are not going to talk about that game.
61:37Yes. Three straight primetime games for the Atlanta Falcons.
61:39Who's responsible for that? Take it up with the league.
61:42Thankfully, at least, I assume Penix will be playing.
61:45We're not going to talk about that game in depth.
61:48One guy who... Minnie, you have my attention. Devin Lloyd was insane.
61:51Yeah. In that game today. Absolutely insane. His second...
61:53It's funny. He had two interceptions, including the pick six.
61:56The second interception that leads to the pick six is a deflected ball that he picks off and takes back.
62:02But then he had a deflection that led to an interception.
62:05So you add it all together. That's two very real picks with a pick six.
62:09He had a sack. He had a handful of TFLs.
62:12He was absolutely everywhere in this game for the Panthers.
62:15And so I at least wanted to mention that, even if we're not going to dig into it.
62:20Because right now, I'm sorry for Panthers fans. Cooper Rush Falcons games are off the table.
62:24I'm not doing this until we have a different quarterback and a different offensive situation for the Falcons.
62:29Those are asterisks until we play some real teams.
62:32But Devin Lloyd, that's why you signed the linebacker with tree trunks for us.
62:36I mean, you felt... You felt all 6'5 of Devin Lloyd over the course of this game in every single way he impacted it.
62:42All right. We've been putting it off for long enough.
62:45Let's get to what the f***. What the f***?
62:48The Bears season, it sounds like it's going to be okay in terms of the actual severity of the injury compared to what it could have been.
62:55But you guys should have been in this room when the Caleb Williams thing happened.
62:59You don't want to have been in this room.
63:02I mean, it's just the idea... Because for a moment, when you thought it was an Achilles and you thought the season
63:08was over, the idea that two weeks into the year, this Bears season could just potentially be done.
63:13I was going through it. It's just the worst feeling you can have as an NFL fan with a team that...
63:19I don't know how good they'll be. But you...
63:22I woke up this morning wanting to watch them play.
63:24And the idea that that's taken away from you one week into the season is just awful.
63:29And then it happened to the f***ing commanders. Like, I just cannot believe that the top two picks in that draft, young,
63:35exciting quarterbacks, we lose them for an indeterminate amount of time, both of them, two weeks into the season.
63:41And both of these fan bases now have to endure whatever that looks like.
63:45Devastating, horrific, impactful quarterback injuries two weeks into the year.
63:47What the f***? It puts a pall over an entire NFL Sunday.
63:51And like in both windows. Yeah, because Jaden right after Caleb.
63:54And I mean, do we... Have we heard anything definitive about Caleb other...
63:57Like the Bears said it was a hamstring? Imaging tomorrow.
64:00And so, I mean, it sounds like if he...
64:03If it was a grade three, he wouldn't have been able to even walk.
64:07And he was walking. And Mike Florio came out today and said it didn't seem that bad.
64:11And for anyone, the only... The unacceptable follow-up to this will be people looking at how he reacted and him getting carted
64:18off and being like, oh, it was only a grade one hamstring strain.
64:21This guy got the s*** kicked out of him for 17 straight games two years ago.
64:26Don't say a f***ing word to me about how tough this dude is.
64:29Not to mention... Don't say a word to me.
64:32Also, until you do that yourself, I'm not going to put myself in my shoes and be like, oh, this guy's being
64:38weak because he only had a grade one. He was clearly frustrated because he thought he had a devastating injury.
64:44In addition to... They could have still won that game.
64:46In addition to the pain, he... On that cart, he thought his season was over.
64:51He had the towel over his head. And to be clear, maybe it still is.
64:55I don't know. Because I just... And I'm not trying to...
64:58I'm not trying to be a pessimist or s*** on anybody's happiness.
65:01I have memories of like people saying bullet dodged the day before imaging and then the news is worse than you thought.
65:07Yeah. That has happened plenty of times. And hopefully that is not the case.
65:11But you're not out of the woods with this thing yet.
65:14And so... But it's absolutely devastating. And I guess maybe...
65:17You certainly feel it hard in a room full of Chicago Bears fans, by the way.
65:22Derek, I needed you here, man. I needed you here because there were...
65:25There were... I feel like the screams would have been as horrifying as like the scream of like Poseidon's son in the Odyssey.
65:32That's kind of what I'm imagining. It was... It's a good reference.
65:35There were four people in the room who like were devastated.
65:38We're just catatonic. Didn't want to talk. It was...
65:41Like... And I just... What do you say? Like I didn't know how to move on with the day where I'm like...
65:47Like five minutes later, I was like, holy s***.
65:49Did you see that catch? And everybody just glared at me.
65:52Like you're still watching football? What are you talking about?
65:55It was brutal. It's... I don't know what you do with that one.
65:59Or... I mean, obviously this is not a Commander's show necessarily, but like the Jaden Daniels one, I would feel the same way.
66:05The fact that... That one we know. I mean, he dislocated his elbow.
66:09How much is he... How long is he going to be out?
66:12I mean, that torpedoes their season probably. And it's like the same injury is what scares me too.
66:17And like it was basically like non-contact where he just like kind of slips and like ends up popping it when he hits the ground.
66:24Like that, that to me is like, it is really, really scary.
66:28Hopefully Caleb's okay. But like Jaden, we know like this is probably going to be a while.
66:32Yeah. I mean, and then again, it just, if you're a Commander's fan, it just completely changes the entire complexion of what...
66:39And it's, it was hard. I'm sure you're sitting there watching that game even before he gets hurt.
66:44And you're probably seeing the writing on the wall a little bit with what the season's going to look like and this coaching staff and all of that.
66:52But it doesn't make it any easier when it comes to your weekly experience watching your team.
66:56I was going to say... Yet again, we're going to get 10 games of Marcus Mariota.
67:01The Commanders could be ass and Jaden Daniels can still be a fun player to watch.
67:05100%. We're, we're not enthused by week two of the Dallas defense.
67:09I know they won comfortably, but we are not enthused by what the Cowboys did.
67:13So it, maybe it wouldn't look that good every week, but the way Jaden Daniels was playing leading up to halftime, you
67:19can be excited to turn that on and watch your team's favorite What he was doing with his legs was insane.
67:25And plus you get the added benefit of like loving Jaden and just absolving him of all blame for the organization.
67:31And now that's on hold. And watching the Commanders is probably going to be a lot more tragic here over the time that he's out.
67:38I don't want this entire conversation about the Bears-Vikings game to be about Caleb Williams getting hurt because we should spend a
67:44little bit of time talking about what the Vikings did to the Chicago Bears in this game.
67:49That was a, a pantsing in terms of how much Brian Flores controlled that game.
67:53That was, I, the weather was awful, right? Like let's acknowledge the fact that it was disgusting outside.
67:58That to me was the sloppiest, potentially worst coach game I have seen from Ben Johnson in his two years since he's been the Bears coach.
68:05Like the Vikings controlled that entire side of the ball.
68:08Everything the Bears were trying to do in the passing game was either sped up or off schedule.
68:13The entire game. Like the Vikings dictated every single snap.
68:16It seemed like that was happening when the Bears dropped back.
68:19They ran the ball fine and penalties and just overall sloppiness really came back to hurt them.
68:24But when they dropped back to pass in this game, they were scrambling literally and figuratively for four straight quarters.
68:29And that is a credit to what Brian Flores did yet again.
68:33It was everything like this was, I believe the second lowest rushing success rate of Ben Johnson's tenure.
68:38Now with the Chicago Bears, number one was week one last year against Brian Flores.
68:42And so we, we kind of came into this week being like, you're saving grace against the defense like this is like,
68:48can you run them out of it? And they pretty much had the one good drive, I think directly out of the
68:54half where they were able to run the ball and otherwise were terrible on the ground.
68:59And so it was a lot of, we have to make a lot of plays through the air.
69:04And like, I think the one that like puts a point on everything that the defense was able to do to them
69:10in the passing game with some of their blitzes, with some of their looks, the third and 12 interception, I think that,
69:16that Caleb Williams throws, they come out in like a pressure look.
69:19And so they've got a lot of people up front and they drop a lot of people to the field, which is
69:25what a lot of offenses are going to do, especially like Ben Johnson does like to do this is take that crosser
69:32from the short side of the field and run him into the field and say, Hey, if the throw pass, the sticks
69:38isn't open, you can spit it to this guy.
69:40And he has so much room to work with to get us the first down.
69:44But the way they drop their players out, like that was never going to be there.
69:49And so Caleb's got to go make a play.
69:51He overthrows it. He throws the interception. And it was just stuff like that, that Brian Flores was able to do to them really for four quarters.
69:59Like you said, it felt like almost all of Caleb's best plays were a lot of stuff that was like out of
70:05structure and him having to make like a really impressive play.
70:08I mean, I think one of the only instructor plays they made in the entire game is the single chunk completion he had to Loveland.
70:15And that got called back because of an illegal formation penalty, which that was the entire game.
70:20Every single time there was a positive play, there was some sort of penalty.
70:24There was some sort of flub. The overall just total sloppiness with the operational stuff, the penalties.
70:29And then, I mean, Sam Rauch had a day he would love to forget.
70:33I mean, I typically don't play this game, but he catches that ball inside the goal line that Caleb play never even happens.
70:39And he missed the block on the block field goal.
70:42He dropped the pass earlier in this game. Like he had a nightmarish day in what was a nightmarish game overall for the Bears offense.
70:49Garrett Bradbury as well. Oh my God. In the preseason about downgrading at center.
70:53Even if it was a smart move, the way in which they acquired Garrett Bradbury, like I had worries about just transitioning from Drew Dahlman to Bradbury seamlessly.
71:01And it did not look great against this defense, which by the way, this is not Garrett Bradbury's fault necessarily.
71:06But do you know who leads the NFL in pressures?
71:09Dallas Turner. That's right. Yeah. He was phenomenal in this game.
71:12He was electric in this game. I want to give one more shout out to the Vikings defense.
71:17James Pierre on the second, I think it was the second to last play of the game.
71:22Tyson Bajan, who was in the quarterback at this point in the game, throws like a little five, six yard route to
71:28Luther Burden on the right hand side. And by this point, the Bears are trying to drive and they have no timeouts.
71:34James Pierre, like Luther Burden almost slips out of this tackle to where he would have been able to get to the sideline.
71:41They can stop the clock. They can kind of take a breather for a second.
71:45But James Pierre, like as Burden is slipping out, grabs him by the shoulder pads and rips him down, keeps him down,
71:51forces him to go fast when they probably didn't think they were going to have to.
71:55And Bajan just like chucks ones up to the end zone after that.
71:59Like that was a, it's kind of a hidden play because obviously the very end of the game is a more explosive play.
72:06But that was like, if he does not make that tackle, I think the Bears have a significantly better chance at actually
72:12like getting into the end zone there at the end.
72:14All right, before we move on, let's take one more quick break.
72:18Let's get to a couple more traditional WTF games.
72:20The Tampa Bay Buccaneers lose to the Cleveland Browns 23 to 19, drop to 0 and 2 on the season.
72:26We'll dig into the details of this, but Tampa Bay Buccaneers, what the f*** was that?
72:30I mean, very, in addition to like their form, just like what the f*** was a two and a half hour weather delay?
72:37Just disgusting on every level. This game ended in a monsoon while the late games were in the second half.
72:42Here's the stat that I will throw out that I think is just very telling for what this game and this moment feels like for the Bucs.
72:50Deshaun Watson, 0.25 EPA per dropback, 52.8% dropback success rate.
72:53Both the best numbers he has put up as a starting quarterback for the Cleveland Browns.
72:57That's just a gut punch of a stat. And one of the more embarrassing parts to me, he wasn't even really pushing the ball down the field.
73:05Like he hit one to Denzel Boston. That was really impressive.
73:08And he makes the like spinning out of three people insane play by Denzel Boston.
73:12Crazy. Other than that, it was like it was a lot of like short passes, check down screens.
73:17Like it was a lot of Tampa Bay not being able to tackle the way that they wanted to.
73:23I think that was what was more concerning to me.
73:25They can't tackle and it's insane is is Alex Anzalone through two games having like the worst opening stretch with a new team in recent memory.
73:33Like it has been a disastrous couple of weeks for him.
73:36Like, I mean, he missed tackles in the Bengals game.
73:38He missed multiple tackles in this game. And really the Boston play like opened this whole thing up.
73:44Like the Bucs didn't look good, but they looked like they were in control.
73:47The Browns had one explosive play in the entire first half of this game.
73:51They finished. It was the one completion of Fannin, right?
73:54Yeah. Like it was like 10 minutes off in the first quarter.
73:57They finished with seven on the day and like virtually all of it came after the Boston play.
74:03And that's a that's like a 15 or 16 yard gain.
74:06And like it's a great play. But like the I mean, the Browns still have work to do if one of three
74:12guys just gets him on the ground and not to take credit away from Denzel Boston.
74:16But Alex Anzalone is making a lot of money to make that tackle in addition to Tykee Smith and Antoine Winfield.
74:22And it just felt like it all fell apart after that.
74:25And like it not not that there were all these like crazy explosive plays, but the Browns just started moving the ball
74:31in chunks not long after that play. Letting Deshaun Watson and that offense have the best game he's had in Cleveland is
74:38a low moment for the Todd Bowles era, I think.
74:40But to me, the more concerning part of this is just what the offense continues to look like and the way the Baker Mayfield continues to play.
74:48I. It will talk about this a little bit when we talk about the Chargers.
74:52The skittishness in the pocket. And it's not even skittishness.
74:55The way that I would describe it is his pocket movement right now.
74:59Baker's and Justin Herbert a little bit, too. It's all or nothing.
75:02There is no subtle movements. Anytime there's like a flash of color, the ball is getting pulled down and we're in like frantic play extension mode.
75:09There is no trying to maneuver around that space and find completions.
75:13And it just makes it for the entire it makes it difficult for the entire offense to function.
75:18The hold that Barton gets. Late in the game.
75:20Is in part a product of Baker just bailing from the pocket on that play.
75:24It's hard to play offensive line when your quarterback is going to play like that.
75:28And watching him just go into that mode over and over and over again.
75:32The Bucks had a couple of nice moments. As a passing offense in this game.
75:37Almost every single one of them was off of play action when they were wadding it up and giving him a ton
75:43of space to make a defined throw before the play even started.
75:46On non-play action passes in this game, Baker Mayfield was 11 of 22 for 72 yards.
75:51He had a 29.6% success rate and averaged negative 0.28 EPA per drop back.
75:54Like every consistently when they ask him to be and have asked him to be a drop back passer.
76:00This is the product that you're getting. And it just makes everything else on the offense look worse.
76:05And I don't really know what you do about it.
76:08He is pressing like you just feel like like you said it is all or nothing.
76:12Like if he did not play so all or nothing against Cincinnati, I think that they probably win that game.
76:18If he doesn't do that in this game, they probably win this game.
76:21I think even on the very last drive, like after the weather day, after the weather delay, when they come back, it's
76:28I think like a third and 11 and they're like near the red zone in the red zone.
76:33And so I know on third and 11, you probably want to attack the sticks in most cases.
76:38But like given the game situation, you're OK with just taking some of the yards.
76:42You're going to go for it on fourth down every time anyway.
76:45And so it's third down on that drive and they're in empty and the defense is showing six rushers.
76:50So like you're not necessarily going to throw hot.
76:53They're probably going to drop somebody off, but you should be thinking about it.
76:57And he's got a quick throw, a quick slant to Ted Hurst to the left hand side if he wants it.
77:03Maybe it only gets you eight yards, but you get to fourth and four.
77:07You can maybe keep going. He doesn't take it.
77:09He holds on to the ball and it's like a dead play.
77:13And I think he either I think he like tries to scramble out to his right and he gets like one yard
77:19on the scramble and now it's fourth and 11 and then he overthrows like Buka in the end zone.
77:24It's just like you felt more moments like that from him.
77:27And like even when at his best, he has games like this sometimes.
77:31But the fact that out of the two games that we've seen this season, he has been like that 100 percent of snaps.
77:37It's pretty concerning to me. It's funny. Like Baker's been bad.
77:40I'm not arguing that point. I'm way more concerned about what the Deshaun Watson was able to do to the Buccaneers defense in this game.
77:47Like the useful context here. My morning started by waking up.
77:50Still being mad about LSU losing to Ole Miss and opening social media and all of the reports like Ian Rapoport and
77:57Mary Kay Cabot, who's been tied into the Browns forever, are like, yeah, so the Browns are thinking about benching Deshaun when
78:03they get back from this road trip. They soft launched the bench before the game and they had a best game of tenure with the team.
78:10They were so, the Browns themselves were so confident that he was going to play poorly, that they were pre-benching him in the media.
78:17And he went out and played like that and scored, what did they score?
78:2123 points? Scoring 23 points in Tampa. And the Bucs' biggest free agency addition was Alex Anzalone.
78:25They spent money there. They've drafted so many young players.
78:28They have tried to revamp this defense after so many of the Super Bowl guys left town.
78:33And it just doesn't look good enough. And like last week, you could wave some of that off by the turnover margin, getting things out of whack.
78:40But if Deshaun Watson is having career games against you in 2026, that is damning.
78:45Even if, I mean, like I said, no, Baker is not good, but that is really troubling.
78:49I had my concerns about the viability of this regime by the end of this season.
78:54Like I felt like we might be coming to the end.
78:57Even as somebody who was relatively pessimistic about this, I couldn't have imagined this sort of start where you have a game
79:03like this and the offense looking this out of sorts.
79:06Like this is worse than I even could have imagined, even as somebody that was relatively down on this team coming into the year.
79:13Yeah. I, given all the stocks I bought of them, I'm a little bit concerned, but this is the bet I've made for myself.
79:19They are still in the NFC South and with the upstart New Orleans Saints.
79:23Thank you for making me feel good. Hey, and Bryce Young played his nuclear Atlanta game today.
79:28So maybe it won't be as easy as we think, but it's still a preferable place to be compared to some other divisions.
79:34Can I trot out my pet theory about Baker Mayfield?
79:37That's going to tie us into the Justin Herbert game we're about to talk about.
79:41Please. Let's hear it. The way that those guys succeeded at times last year for Baker early in the season, for Justin
79:48Herbert late in the season, when them pulling the ripcord and really tapping into their scrambling ability and trying to create plays
79:54over and over and over again, it leading to the positives it did for both of those offenses last year.
79:59I think it's broken them. Like not irreparably, but I think that it has harmed them in terms of how they are playing the position.
80:06Because Baker, that's what he looks like. And we'll talk about, let's get, let's get into it.
80:11The Chargers get beat up by the Raiders in this game and look completely out of sorts again on offense.
80:17Los Angeles Chargers, what the f***? And again, that's how I feel about this.
80:21Like I, it's probably too simple of an explanation, but when you watch what both of these guys look like in the
80:27pocket, and again, that all or nothing feel to what they're trying to do, it's just, we'll talk about the Niners game at the end of this.
80:34Like you watch what, watch what I know they're playing against the Dolphins, but you watch what a quarterback that like has command in the pocket looks like.
80:42And then you watch Justin Herbert and Baker Mayfield right now.
80:45And it's just an ocean between those two things.
80:48It's hard to watch. It's really, it's like disappointing.
80:50I don't think it's unfounded though. Like I have in my notes here, like verbatim, maybe this can change, but Justin Herbert
80:56isn't playing as fast and confident as usual. Like he just does not feel like he is playing in the pocket the way that he normally does.
81:04And I think last year that was like you're mentioning, I think early in the year, like Justin Herbert had command of
81:10the offense and the offensive line falls apart. He's got to run all around and do all this scrambling stuff.
81:16By the end of last season, he did not seem super confident.
81:19And so I think some of that has carried over into having to learn a new offense.
81:24And I do think that like, I think that's the other thing I want to talk about.
81:29Mike McDaniel, I do think is good at this.
81:31And there are still some things that they're, that they were doing that like looks good.
81:36And there were a handful of plays that they opened up in this game and receivers drop it or Herbert misses a throw, whatever.
81:42But I do think that one thing that like, as I've watched this unfold now, some of the Tua stuff worked in
81:49Miami, not just because Tua would throw it, but because even if they weren't obviously open, they would make a play.
81:54Vlad McConkie doesn't do that. Quentin Johnston doesn't do that.
81:57Like these receivers don't do that in the way that Tyree Kill.
82:01And then even to a lesser extent, like Jalen Waddell could do where like space was there, even if it really wasn't.
82:07And so one, you have the space not really being there because I don't think they're consistently separating at a super high level right now.
82:14And you have a quarterback who's learning a new offense and like doesn't necessarily trust those tight windows right now because throwing
82:20them in the way that you have to throw them in this offense.
82:24And it's not the whole offense, the way it was with Tua, but it's still there.
82:28And I think that there's just been a little bit of like a things are not clicking the way that we hoped
82:34they would part to this on top of what you mentioned, where I think some of last year, like kind of has
82:40maybe broken Justin Herbert's brain just a little bit.
82:43It's really important to point out that these are new offensive systems and new offensive coordinators and new play callers.
82:48I think we should give teams grace that are in these situations.
82:52We've seen it take a little while with new staffs.
82:55This happens. It can take a month. It can take five weeks.
82:58The problem is both the Bucs and the Chargers look so much like offenses that have new offensive coordinators and new play callers.
83:04And in both of their cases, and they're sitting at 0-2, these are teams that are supposed to make the playoffs that
83:11I think see themselves as playoff teams. Even if we should give them a little bit of time to figure this out,
83:17they don't have time to figure this out. The Chargers especially.
83:20The Chargers especially. They've got to play soon. The whole goal for the Chargers was to win these games to give yourself cushion for what's coming.
83:27I'm sure you've probably seen the graphics going around of what is up next for the Chargers at Bills, at Seahawks, Broncos, at Chiefs.
83:34And even after their bye week, it doesn't let up.
83:37It's at Rams, Texans, at Ravens after that. They don't have a manageable looking game on the schedule until roughly Thanksgiving.
83:42So have fun with all that. And they'll find a way to win one of those games if I had to guess.
83:49I'm not saying they're going to go 0-4. But this was the chunk of the schedule where you could make a little
83:55bit of hay for yourself so you had some room for error.
83:58However, here's what I'll say about this. The fact that the offense looks a little bit uneven and a little bit unsettled,
84:04you can imagine that with a new offensive coordinator, new offensive system, all that stuff.
84:08And it's a little bit of everything. I do not think Justin Herbert is playing well.
84:13But I also think that so many other aspects of the offense, it's like clown car shit.
84:18Some of the stuff that they're doing is just hilarious.
84:21The first drive, Herbert puts a perfect ball on Brennan Thompson.
84:24He just drops it on a crosser. 3-27 left in the first quarter.
84:27Tron Johnson comes completely unblocked off play action, puts them into a third down.
84:31On the next play, Njoku bobbles it right into the hands of a defensive player.
84:35This team over the course of the game had six unblocked pressures that they allowed.
84:40They allowed a 26% overall quick pressure rate per next gen.
84:43You have two false starts by Joe All in a row.
84:46A ball hits... In their own end zone, by the way.
84:49In their own end zone. He gets two false starts in a row.
84:52You have a ball hit a player going in motion on a third and one, which happened in this game.
84:58Just a horrendous O'Marrion Hampton fumble in the fourth quarter.
85:01Herbert fumbles while trying to get out of pressure early in the fourth quarter.
85:05I mean, it's just a comedy of errors. And again, you can excuse some of that with the offense maybe a little bit.
85:11But my thing with this is, isn't the whole premise of having Jim Harbaugh be your head coach is that you're supposed to do this shit right?
85:19You're supposed to be a team that does the details right?
85:22Isn't that the entire specter of what a head coach like Jim Harbaugh is supposed to be?
85:27So what are the Chargers supposed to be in this current iteration?
85:30Because they are none of those things. That's the part that is most frustrating to me.
85:34Like the if you told me like, hey, this Chargers pass catching group isn't going to be as impressive as you want.
85:41All right. I mean, like I could have bought that.
85:43It's a group that's like just not super, super talented.
85:46And so like the drops are frustrating and bad.
85:49But like that's just going to happen with groups that are kind of mediocre.
85:53The two false starts by who is supposed to be like your star tackle in their own end zone is frustrating.
85:58And then like you said, the play where they have a receiver in motion and they snap in the ball.
86:04It's because I don't know if they were late getting the play in or late changing the play, whatever it was.
86:10But like they had to snap because otherwise they were going to get a delay of game.
86:15The fact that their operation looked as not put together as it did.
86:18And like you said, O'Marrion Hampton just not protecting the football when he's running straight up the middle.
86:23It's just like that is the stuff that I didn't even think about with this team, because like you said, like it's a Jim Harbaugh team.
86:31Like, why would that be an issue? And the fact that it has been consistently an issue through two games is really concerning.
86:37They fumbled six times in this game. They miraculously only lost one.
86:40It was not pouring rain in Los Angeles. It's a dome.
86:44Yeah, it's not quite a dome. It's actually it's enough.
86:46It's enough of a dome. It's dome adjacent. Also.
86:49So you guys mentioned all and what a rough day for him.
86:52The Chargers O-line in totality got flagged six times in this game and Slater got a holding call.
86:57So you're too. We're not even talking about the interior, which everybody is so worried about.
87:02The tackles, which are supposed to be the good part of this thing, got flagged five times today.
87:07They don't do anything well. What is the best thing about the Los Angeles Chargers right now?
87:12You can't even say Justin Herbert right now. No.
87:14You can't even say. Which normally you could when it was going poorly.
87:18That's my point. You could say he will have some games.
87:21And today I'm not. No way. I'm not doing that today.
87:24Here's the thing that's most worrying to me. In the Jim Harbaugh era, you could count on them to play really good, sound, disciplined, put together defense.
87:31Not right now. Not right now. We're giving up chunk touchdowns to Trey Tucker right now.
87:36And I don't want to make this all about the Chargers.
87:39The Raiders deserve credit for being a put together enough operation on offense to take advantage of this team.
87:44Like the Raiders are doing. Yes. The Raiders are doing so many of the right things in year one of a new
87:50staff as the Chargers do so many of the wrong things with carryover from the defensive system, from the language, everything, and just a new offensive play caller.
87:58Like I don't, this isn't a let's shit on the Chargers, let's not talk about the Raiders at all thing.
88:04The Raiders deserve a lot of credit for being a good enough team and a put together enough team this early in
88:10the season to take advantage of what the Chargers are right now.
88:13Maybe the Chargers just had a hard time dealing with the Raiders home crowd.
88:17That's another element of this. Tough day. They travel a few hours to get there.
88:21They travel, buddy. They travel down the street. LA is, LA is Raider territory.
88:25You know what's, you know what's upsetting to me or frustrating to me?
88:29I think two different, two different fronts. One, again, I think the Raiders defensive plan in this game was better than what the Chargers had.
88:36Which like that's, that's a worrying place to be if you were a team that has hung its hat on defense over
88:42the last couple of years under Jim Harbaugh. And you know what the other part of it is?
88:47Again, we're like, this is football guy stuff, right?
88:50We're supposed to be tough. We're supposed to be like milk drinking guys over here on the Jim Harbaugh team.
88:55Watching Kobe White go up and snatch that ball for that touchdown and you getting pushed around by this Raiders team and
89:02them wanting and rising to those moments more than you are.
89:05Again, what are you? What are you, what is your calling card?
89:08What are you supposed to be? I'm glad you bring up that throw because that throw is not open at any point.
89:14And Kirk just says, I'm going to throw it because it's the throw that is supposed to be thrown on this play.
89:20I don't really care if it's actually open or not.
89:23I'm going to give him a chance. And that's like, what's it?
89:26Yeah. Cody White, who was what their fourth, fifth wide receiver on a wide receiver.
89:31Darik Young had that dynamic. Big play. All of, uh, all of Kubiak's guys that he brought over from Seattle.
89:36Yeah. That lack of receiving talent doesn't seem to be affecting the Raiders.
89:40No, not a problem for them. And like, honestly, I just said that Kirk threw up like he threw it even when it wasn't open.
89:47I think he looks good. And like the interception that he threw in this game, Jalen Ayler just, or maybe it was Trey Tucker.
89:54One of them just falls down. Like it was going to be a good throw and he just, it just ends up
90:00going to the, to the defensive back. Cause the guy falls, but like Kirk looked good in this game.
90:05I thought picked them apart. Like the run game.
90:08I thought looked decent. There was, there was a lead play that they ran to the left-hand side where the fullback just
90:14like nukes the linebacker in the hole. And to your point, like that's what you're supposed to be.
90:19Your linebacker is supposed to kill him and take him out.
90:22The way that Kobe Dean played in this game, like where, where's, where's that?
90:26Where's he? Kobe Dean was awesome today. He was phenomenal.
90:29He was really good last week too. He's been, that's another one where like they've gotten what they've paid for.
90:34I think with those linebackers credit to the Raiders and whatever the opposite of credit is to the start that the Chargers have had.
90:41All right, before we get out of here, let's talk about what made us feel romantic about football in week two.
90:47I mean, this thing was a thing of beauty.
90:49I know that it was against the dolphins. My God, did I have a blast spinning back through that Niners game.
90:55And the way that that passing game looked. Just to put a point on it before we dig into some of the details.
91:02The Niners in this game finished with an 80% passing success rate per next gen.
91:068-0. I don't care. I don't care who you're playing.
91:09You'd be playing Kent State. Putting up an 80% passing success rate is going to be pretty impressive.
91:14That has happened one other time in the next gen era, which goes back to 2016.
91:1810 years. We're on 11 seasons of next gen.
91:21We have two games with an 80% passing success rate.
91:23The other one? The Niners in 2023. I was going to say, is it also Kyle Shanahan?
91:28The Niners in 2023, week four against the Cardinals.
91:31And that's telling to me. Because this version of the Niners offense that we've seen through two weeks, they are humming in
91:37a way that we have seen from the best versions of this Niners offense.
91:41And some of it is the skill position talent and what you're bringing to the table with those guys.
91:46Kittle had some really nice moments in this game.
91:49We got vertical Kyle Juszczyk catches in this game, which was phenomenal.
91:52Hell yeah, we did. Mike Evans made a couple big plays, CMC as a receiver.
91:56But the promise of this version of the offense and what is potentially so cool about it is that you have all
92:02of the schematic, schemed up designer stuff that Kyle Shanahan is going to bring you.
92:07But Purdy, what he can do as a creator and off schedule, that was always the thing that could take this offense
92:13to a slightly different gear from the moment that he took over.
92:16And you saw every single bit of that in this game.
92:19There were four or five moments that he has as like an improv player playing outside of the pocket.
92:24The improv play makes it. Mike Evans spinning away from pressure.
92:27He had multiple great plays with his legs when they were up 7-3.
92:31Just incredible pocket movement. He fires a missile to Demarcus Robinson.
92:34The play he makes with like 3.50 left in the third quarter, they fake toss boot to the right.
92:40He boots back to the left side. There's an unblocked player coming on the boot.
92:44He pumps and makes the guy jump. Buys a little bit of time to his left and just rips a ball that
92:50Evans on a crosser coming across the field. Piss missile.
92:53He was, again, all caveats about the Dolphins. I completely understand that.
92:56Brock Purdy was phenomenal in this game. He was incredibly good.
92:59I love that. It's still the NFL. It's still the NFL.
93:02To do it at this level, it is still the NFL.
93:05He was 20 of 22. He was 20 of 22.
93:08His two incompletions. One was a Debo drop that hit him in the hands.
93:12And the other one, there was an unblocked player and he got an intentional grounding.
93:16Those were the two incompletions. So he didn't throw a real one.
93:20That's kind of crazy. In the next-gen era is one of 10 performances where a quarterback attempted at least 20 passes and
93:26finished with an EPA per drop back of 1.0 or better.
93:29And it's actually Brock Purdy's second game doing it.
93:31Lamar Jackson's done it twice. Jared Goff's done it twice.
93:34Drake May. Ben Roethlisberger. Not something you see very often.
93:37And we've seen plenty of blowouts in the NFL.
93:39I don't give a shit who it was. And I love that point that when you watch the Niners and they're really
93:46humming, it's so satisfying because you can just see the mechanics of the offense.
93:50And even in real time, you don't even have to go back and watch all 22.
93:54You can see it happening on the broadcast where the choreography is just amazing.
93:58You're just like, oh, that block opens that up and this motion is doing that and this guy is pulling that guy down.
94:04And that's why all of these throws are wide ass open.
94:07And just when you start to not be impressed by the quarterback, because that, you know, Purdy and other San Francisco quarterbacks
94:14have caught in a lot of hate because it's like, well, yeah, George Kittle's just wide ass open on this dig for the fifth time today.
94:21The minute you start to feel that way, he does that shit with Mike Evans on the fake toss.
94:26That throw was insane. And he's such a good athlete.
94:29I know his touchdown with his feet today wasn't anything impressive, but you have that element that he brings to it where
94:35he can get an explosive run and score a touchdown for you if the play does break down.
94:40He's just he's so good, dude. And I like I I will readily admit I didn't appreciate him quickly because so much
94:46of it was the other players on that. I did not.
94:49I did not either. But I've he's he's so high up on the list of guys.
94:54I love to watch 26 years old. He like that is what he that like he is.
94:59He's getting better and he was already pretty darn good.
95:01Well, and that's what I appreciate most about it.
95:04When he first came onto the scene, they could do more drop back stuff because of him.
95:09But I think the value really was that he was more willing to throw the ball down the field, even if he
95:15wasn't great at it than Jimmy ever was. And he could make plays outside of the pocket.
95:20Yeah. But the longer he's in the offense, the less that he needs to do that stuff because he's gotten so much
95:26better at the just spit the ball out, find the right throw, stay on time stuff.
95:30But it not in the same way that Jimmy was doing where it was like you throw the first or second read
95:36and then you go or you or you just, you know, you take the sack, whatever you're going to do.
95:42You're not going to go because you're Jimmy Garoppolo.
95:45But pretty has a little bit more to him.
95:47And so I think that like he's finally kind of met both of the perfect worlds.
95:52It feels like the other funny thing I want to talk about with this team.
95:56I know it's only two weeks and I know that we're going to have to be hanging on for the whole season with them.
96:02But we went into last year with the Rams being like, what does Stafford's back look like?
96:07Can Devontae Adams still really do this at this age?
96:10Is the offensive line really going to hold up the way you want it to?
96:14And at least through two weeks, it's like, well, shit, George Kittle looks like most of himself.
96:19Mike Evans has been phenomenal for them. CMC looks like he has juice back, like all of the things that you would
96:25have wanted for the most part, shriveling going down obviously sucks.
96:28But all of the older guys that you had some questions about, Trent Williams even looks incredible.
96:33It's like, OK, the fact that they look like they are playing 85th percentile or better football for all of them is
96:39like, OK, if they can continue to do that for the rest of the season, it's wheels.
96:44And even Evans did get dinged up in this game.
96:47But Shanahan said immediately after that, he would have come back.
96:50He's just chronically dinged up. I'm not I'm not getting worried about that anymore.
96:54We were 96 minutes into this. There's probably a table conversation to be had about the Bengals and the Niners at some
97:00point in the next couple of weeks. I haven't thought about the table.
97:03Well, again, it's they're worthwhile discussions to be had.
97:06I think we revisit them maybe after one more week just for space reasons.
97:10But also, I just might maybe want to see a little bit more.
97:14But the Bengals and the Niners, after the way that they've looked through two weeks and the reasons they've looked as good
97:20as they have, both of them deserve some consideration.
97:22We'll sit with that. The last play I want to bring up that I don't know if you watch this, Derek, but watch it back.
97:29The chunk play to Kittle off of the play action is maybe my favorite just schematic play from week two that I saw Kittles on the back.
97:37Was it where him and the other player almost run into each other and like, but they both could catch the pass.
97:43Kittles on the backside of a zone run going to the right.
97:46Right. And he comes back and runs like a backside dig off play action.
97:50But it's like the timing of it and the way that the play unfolds, that makes me feel romantic about football.
97:56Like that is what the San Francisco 49ers are at their best, where you have a tight end on the left side
98:02of the formation on the left hash goes, they run a play action.
98:06He runs all the way back. And essentially the timing of it is like a backside dig and back into that space.
98:12And just like the design of it, everything about it is like, holy shit, this thing is fun to watch while it's humming.
98:18And through two games, it is the most, it is the most rhythmic offense that you can possibly design.
98:24It's beautiful. And when you have a quarterback that is operating it like this again, 61% offensive success rate through two games
98:30for this team, pretty damn good start for the San Francisco 49ers.
98:33Yeah. It's worth saying, yes, it was the Miami Dolphins.
98:36They did this to the Rams 10 days ago.
98:39Like, it's not like we don't have evidence that they're pretty freaking good.
98:42But incredible day in what was an ugly day overall in a lot of ways in the NFL.
98:47And that's why we wanted to spit, wanted to sit and spend a little bit of time with it.
98:53That is all we've got for today are three games tomorrow on the hangover.
98:57Colts Chiefs, Seahawks Cardinals, which we wanted to save that one because we wanted to spend a little bit more time with it.
99:03And Pat Steelers. We've not talked about the Steelers at all.
99:06They played another really ugly game offensively. Those are the three games we're going to dig into tomorrow.
99:11Sorry, we didn't have time to hit them and a lot of other stuff that we wanted to dig into tonight.
99:17That is all we've got for today. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening.
99:20We'll talk to you very soon.