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The most surprising developments in the season's first month

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 20 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Oct 8, 2026
Published
Thu, October 8, 2026
25
Player insights
18
Players mentioned
Topics
Trevor LawrenceBryce YoungCaleb WilliamsJalen HurtsJustin HerbertLamar JacksonA.J. BrownBijan RobinsonBo NixCeeDee LambCourtland SuttonDavis WebbDrake LondonMatthew Hibner
Player analysis

Player insights

25

A.J. Brown

NegativeProjection15:51

The source references A.J. Brown's trade request from last year as a signal that the Eagles' front office is aware the expensive offensive days must end; the franchise cannot sustain keeping all premium offensive players in perpetuity and must pivot toward roster reconstruction.

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Bijan Robinson

PositiveProjection127:01

Bijan Robinson is making the Falcons' offensive environment better rather than being a product of it; his ability to set things up, the pace he plays with, and his timing on combination blocks make those blocks more effective than they would be with another running back; he transcends the situation and is the most obvious example of a running back who improves everything around him, similar to Derrick Henry and Saquon Barkley but in a more refined way.

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Bo Nix

NegativeProjection88:51

Bo Nix has struggled significantly in his third year in Denver's system; the source indicates Nix bears most culpability for the offense's poor performance, noting he is turning down open receivers and failing to execute throws that should be routine, forcing play caller Davis Webb into a more conservative approach and limiting the offense's ceiling despite elite supporting talent.

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Bryce Young

PositiveProjection4:00

Had a monster day against the Falcons in week two; the source uses this performance as an example of how context shifts as more information emerges about opposing defenses, suggesting Young's strong outing was even more impressive than initially recognized given the Falcons defense's subsequent poor performance.

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PositiveRole70:00

Under new play caller Brad Idzik, Bryce Young has performed significantly better than expected; the source credits Idzik's scheme—featuring RPOs, strategic personnel usage, and a cohesive blend of heavy and spread formations—with maximizing Young's strengths and building an offense that believes in his ceiling rather than merely protecting him, contrasting sharply with the previous year's more conservative approach.

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Caleb Williams

PositiveProjection39:00

Caleb Williams is expected to return to the Bears, and the source suggests that when he does, the Bears' offensive performance will improve significantly; the team is already doing well offensively, and with Williams back, the Bears could become a more serious contender.

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PositiveProjection65:59

The only time the Bears saw Caleb Williams not against Brian Flores in a rainstorm this season, the team scored 59 points; the source suggests this demonstrates significant offensive ceiling potential when Williams returns to action, framing his impact as transformative for the Bears' overall competitive outlook.

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CeeDee Lamb

PositiveMatchup111:47

CeeDee Lamb benefited from the Texans' defensive communication breakdowns in their loss to the Cowboys; he got an easy 30-yard completion over the middle of the field when a safety failed to pick him up on a crosser route.

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Courtland Sutton

NegativeRole71:51

Cortland Sutton is described as a ball-winning wide receiver in Denver's offense, part of a collection of talented pass-catchers (including Jalen Waddell and Pat Bryant) that should theoretically support strong offensive production, yet the Broncos have struggled to execute downfield passing despite these weapons.

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Davis Webb

NegativeProjection80:40

Davis Webb's play-calling in Denver has been disappointing relative to expectations; the source critiques his inability to establish a functional run game and suggests he may be losing confidence in Bo Nix's ability to execute an ambitious passing game, leading to a more conservative, floor-focused offensive approach similar to the 2024 Panthers rather than one built around the quarterback's ceiling.

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Drake London

PositiveRole126:42

Drake London is benefiting from the Falcons' offensive scheme under Kevin Stefanski and Tommy Reese; he is being used in the playbook to get Michael Penix Jr. clean pockets and opportunities to aggressively attack downfield.

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Jalen Hurts

NegativeProjection16:16

The source raises the question of whether Jalen Hurts will receive a second contract extension and remain the Eagles' long-term quarterback answer; the Cam Juergens trade and broader offensive reconstruction may signal an implied evaluation of Hurts' future with the franchise, suggesting the Eagles could be considering alternatives at the quarterback position.

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NegativeRole81:42

Jalen Hurts is the focal point of Philadelphia's offense under new play caller Sean Mannion, who was hired to improve the run game and set up play-action passing; however, the source notes the Eagles' run game has not improved and the offense has reverted to Nick Sirianni's year-to-year approach rather than Mannion's intended ambitious passing scheme.

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Justin Herbert

NegativeProjection68:22

Herbert has not forgotten how to be a good quarterback who can make every throw—he can still throw absolute piss missiles when needed—but the Chargers offense is experiencing a breakdown in philosophy and execution on a week-to-week basis that is limiting his performance; the source attributes this to coaching and organizational issues rather than quarterback decline.

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NegativeProjection96:42

Justin Herbert's performance in Los Angeles has been disappointing; the source suggests the Chargers' offensive struggles are evenly attributable to Herbert's on-field decision-making, Mike McDaniel's play-calling, and Jim Harbaugh's overall direction, indicating systemic issues rather than a single fixable problem.

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Lamar Jackson

NegativeInjury17:32

Suffered an ankle sprain; expected to miss a couple of weeks, forcing Baltimore to play backup quarterback; this injury context motivated the Ravens' aggressive trade for Cam Juergens to stabilize the offensive line during his absence.

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PositiveProjection23:00

Lamar Jackson is playing at an elite level early in the season; the source emphasizes that when he plays at this level, the Ravens are capable of pretty much anything, and the team must do everything possible to maximize these seasons because in 2024 when he played at this level, the defense wasn't very good. Now with improved defensive confidence and optimism, the Ravens should capture this season while Lamar is performing at his peak.

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Matthew Hibner

PositiveBreakout84:08

Matt Hibner, a young tight end brought into Chicago's offense under new play caller Declan Doyle, has exceeded expectations; the source initially had questions about Hibner's skill set but was impressed after watching the first quarter of the Colts game, suggesting Doyle's scheme effectively utilizes multiple tight ends in a way that maximizes Hibner's role.

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Michael Penix Jr.

PositiveRole125:15

Michael Penix Jr.'s return gives Kevin Stefanski the opportunity to do something he has always done well stylistically—maximizing a quarterback's skill set through the passing game; the Falcons' offense is now running air-raid-style concepts with 18-25 yard deep breaking routes across the middle, giving Penix Jr. max protection to aggressively attack downfield.

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Parker Washington

PositiveRole29:00

Parker Washington is the ultimate manifestation of the work the Jaguars have done to build their offense; he represents how well the scheme, play of Trevor Lawrence, and the rhythm they're in all work together. The source also notes the Jaguars are extremely precise at designing plays to get Washington exactly 18 to 20 yards across the middle of the field when they need it.

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Pat Bryant

PositiveBreakout71:54

Pat Bryant is identified as a potential breakout piece in Denver's receiving corps, described as a receiver who can flex inside and out; however, the source notes the Broncos' overall offensive struggles suggest Bryant's upside may be constrained by quarterback and play-calling limitations despite his talent.

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Travis Hunter

PositiveRole28:00

Travis Hunter was traded to the Jaguars fresh off a bottoming out and is performing as an all-pro caliber corner; he represents a key defensive piece that the Jaguars acquired to strengthen their defense. The source notes the team is exploring different combinations with him, Jarrion Jones, and Montero Brown to determine optimal deployment, and he functions almost like a rookie in terms of being a new piece to the team's defensive puzzle.

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Trevor Lawrence

NegativeProjection3:29

The source references a cautionary example from a month into last season when analysts questioned whether Trevor Lawrence's struggles defined his ceiling, but he subsequently improved significantly; used as a reminder that early-season performance should not drive sweeping conclusions about player capability.

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NegativeInjury25:00

Trevor Lawrence has seen more contact over the last couple of weeks compared to the end of last season; the source worries about what this will look like over the course of the season if he keeps hitting the ground as often as observed recently, though this concern is tempered by the overall strong performance of the Jaguars offense.

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PositiveProjection28:00

Trevor Lawrence has shown a rhythm in his game that never existed for him in the pros over the last three months; he's displaying confidence, putting his back foot in the ground, and driving the ball into closing passing windows. The source notes he came out of 2024 ready to move on but has turned right back around and is now performing at an elite level within the Jaguars' scheme.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

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0:00Welcome to The Athletic Football Show brought to you by the U.S.
0:03Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays, really enjoyed today's show.
0:07Our old buddy Deontay Lee from The Ringer came on and we talked about just the things that have been most surprising
0:13to us over the first month of the season.
0:16I mentioned this when Deontay is on there, but we were really going to dig into some specific stuff defensively from what
0:22the year has looked like so far. And I just wanted to zoom out a little bit like we're four weeks into the year.
0:29I feel like on this show specifically, sometimes we can really be so deep in the muck that we don't come up
0:36for air often enough and just kind of think about what the league has felt like and just what the big picture perspective is.
0:43And so that's what we wanted to do today.
0:45We picked about seven or eight things that have just been most surprising or most striking compared to expectations about what the season has looked like so far.
0:53Some of that stuff were topics that we've had before, like the Chargers, the Texans defense, but we also use those as jumping off points to larger conversations.
1:01And so this really is just kind of a bird's eye view of how the first month of the season has played
1:08out and what has felt surprising about a lot of the results that we have seen so far.
1:13So let's get to that conversation with me and Deontay right now.
1:16We are a month into the NFL season with week four being over on the eve of week five.
1:22And the original idea today that I wanted to do was talk to Deontay about something defense specific and really like dive
1:28in and chew on some of the schematic stuff that's happened in the league so far.
1:33And I was sitting there last night just kind of thinking about how strange the NFL season has felt to this point
1:39and just how hard it's been to kind of get a handle on what's real, what's not.
1:44I can't remember the exact impetus for it, but I was just trying to think about the context associated with a certain
1:51type of performance and how now it's reframed because we know more about that team than we did two weeks ago.
1:57And my takeaway in that entire headspan exercise was there's just so much chaos right now that I actually wanted to just
2:03zoom out a little bit, take a breath and talk about some of the stuff that has really jumped out to us
2:09in either a surprising or striking way over the first month of the season.
2:13And so that's what we're going to do today.
2:16Rather than dig in even deeper, I wanted to actually come back and see if we could get some perspective on this whole thing.
2:23Look, I have a deep appreciation for this. My Slack messages every week have been like, oh, my God, all these teams
2:29are scoring in week one without needing explosive passes.
2:32Is that the new meta of the league? A week later, that's right back out of the door.
2:37It's actually not like that at all. You know, teams that I was ready to dismiss after a couple weeks start getting hot.
2:44And, you know, the opposite is happening in other spaces.
2:47So I think that zooming out and being able to take a look, honestly, this kind of gives me a chance to
2:53breathe for a second and kind of let go of the wheel a little bit.
2:57You know, I don't have to white knuckle this thing.
3:00We got 17, 18 weeks of this before we get to the playoffs.
3:04That's exactly why I wanted to spend the quarter mark of the season feels a good time to do this while also acknowledging.
3:11And I want that to just be the first beat we hit here.
3:14I still don't think we know jack shit. But truly, I do not think we know anything that's real and lasting.
3:21I think there are some things that have really jumped out, and that's what I want to dig into.
3:26But there are no sweeping proclamations to be made.
3:29Somebody, angry Jaguars fans, which I can understand why they are, were retweeting some of the conversations that we were having about
3:35Trevor Lawrence at me a month into last season.
3:38We were just like, oh, man, Trevor Lawrence struggling.
3:40Is this just who he is? Turns out, no.
3:43So a month in, it's always best to pump the brakes a little bit.
3:47But I do think there's plenty of interesting stuff to chew on.
3:50I remember what it was. I was trying to think about just the marks of the Panthers season so far.
3:56And Bryce Young has a monster day against the Falcons in week two.
4:00And it's kind of like, well, it's the Falcons defense.
4:03And then we see what the Falcons defense has done the last couple weeks.
4:07And it's like, oh, I guess that was even more impressive than we even knew in the moment.
4:12And so that's what the first month is. It's just like a constant exercise in trying to find the right and real context around everything.
4:19And so I think we're going to do a little bit more of that today.
4:24I would think so. And it's funny, right, just how often it's a moving target.
4:28Because I would say like a few seasons ago, I got a month in and I was like, actually, I think I
4:34have a pretty good handle on who doesn't matter in this league.
4:38And I remember sitting and talking to some of my coworkers.
4:41They're like, you feel that strongly going into October?
4:44And I was like, yeah, you can just look at some of these teams, some of the underlying metrics, you know, the injuries and all that.
4:51You know, you can kind of cast aside. I think that this year is probably like the absolute inverse of that.
4:57Like 2024, I felt like we were pretty clear after about a month about who was serious and who wasn't.
5:03This year, I would not, I would never, you know, venture to make that same type of proclamation.
5:08So we're going to make about seven or eight proclamations today just about the things that have been surprising to us.
5:14The most surprising, again, surprising slash striking things about the league so far.
5:18And talking about things that are over, that's my first one.
5:21This era of the Philadelphia Eagles is just over now.
5:24And I don't mean that the Juergens trade signals they're waving a white flag.
5:28I think it's more complicated than that. And we'll dig into the specifics of it.
5:32But when you think about the discussion about the Eagles coming into the season and why they could be a team that
5:39was a contender, a relevant team to the end of the year, it was a lot of, well, we've seen this group do it before.
5:46This group has constructed. They won the Super Bowl two years ago.
5:50Can this group do it again? And then you look at this team now with Lane Johnson gone, which we can dig
5:56into, with the Juergens trade happening, with the defense just being a complete youth movement.
6:00And there just aren't a lot of guys around that we recognize anymore.
6:04And with the offensive line going from the identity of this team, everything about the Philadelphia Eagles offensively was built upon their
6:10offensive line for the last decade, seemingly. And now you're looking at this group and we got Willie Lampkin and Drew Kendall and Markel Bell.
6:18And I think just in so many ways, it really does feel like over the last 48 hours or so, we have
6:24shut the door on an entire era of Philadelphia Eagles football.
6:27And it just seems like it happened very quickly.
6:30Absolutely. And I want to kind of address the last piece of what you said first.
6:34I can't remember the last time I looked at an Eagles depth chart and looked at their backups and was like, oh,
6:41my God, if somebody gets hurt, this is really, really bad.
6:44I'm very I'm much more used to looking at the Eagles depth chart and be like, geez, you guys might have two NFL starters sitting behind all pros.
6:52Right. Like it is just it could not be more opposite from where we were in 2024, in 2022, when this team
6:58was gangbusters offensively and could do whatever they wanted, even if there were, you know, quibbles about what they were doing schematically.
7:05Right. And I think that the conjunction, the conjunction of Lane Johnson's retirement, plus the Cam Juergens trade was a reminder for
7:11me that teams enter seasons with multiple things being true at the same time.
7:15And you're really just waiting to see which truth we land on.
7:19Right. Based off of the results of the season.
7:21And like you were saying, I think the optimistic view is, hey, you've got a quarterback that you've been to championships with and won a championship with.
7:29You've got a head coach who has been there and done it, whatever your, you know, quibbles might be with his approach
7:35to the game, game management, you know, questions about what his leadership style may be.
7:40You've seen them do it before. You have big fans.
7:43You're calling this defense. You have all of this bought in goodwill.
7:46And then after those two moves happened, I'm sitting yesterday talking with, you know, our old buddies, Bo Wolf, you know, and
7:53I'm like, geez, actually, maybe I should have been asking the question that if he had to beg Lane Johnson to come
7:59back and he took a hiatus in training camp and he had to beg, you know, Landon Dickerson to give this another shot.
8:06And him and Cam Juergens had to leave the country to go get treatments done on their lower body.
8:11So that way they could be OK to start the season.
8:14Maybe I didn't spend enough time thinking about what the outcome is, if that tends to be more of the truth of
8:21this team than what I thought more optimistically. And it's just a fascinating place to be for this team.
8:26And like you said, I'm looking at them now and you look at the schedule and God, there is a chance that
8:32even their A game might not be good enough for them to leave up to the Eagle standard that we got really
8:39comfortable with over the last half decade. And I don't even know what that A game looks like with the current state
8:45of the offense and the fact that the defense, we expected the defense to come in and be one of those just
8:52game changing units consistently where they are controlling the way that games are played as the offense kind of figures itself out over the course of the year.
9:00And that just hasn't happened. It hasn't happened with a couple of the defenses we expected that from and we'll talk about that.
9:06And so you look at the Eagles right now and if the defense is going to be somewhere around a middle of
9:13the pack unit and the offense is going to be in the current state that it's in, we might be looking at
9:19another one of those bottoming out Eagle seasons, which they have.
9:22Right. Even in this run of really sustained success, they aren't really afraid to have these massive dip seasons because it's actually
9:29a good thing to have them every once in a while when you have job security.
9:33And I'm talking about the front office, not the coaching staff, when you have that job security, because it allows you to
9:40have access to players like Devante Smith and kind of reload with those sorts of guys every once in a while.
9:46But I think we're headed more toward one of those Eagle seasons than a season where they're trying to squeeze every last
9:52drop out of the roster like the way they have over the last few years.
9:56Understandably so. As we're, you know, I know that the conceit of the show is what takeaways we have now.
10:02And I think so much of it is actually just like a reminder of certain tin pulls, certain things that are just true about the NFL in general.
10:10And that's that this league is built on roster attrition.
10:13The fact that you don't just get to be excellent in perpetuity, that you don't just get to keep your continuity and
10:20all the guys will be great and you'll stick around and there's going to be some linear, you know, this linear growth year over year.
10:27And that brain drain is not going to affect you.
10:30It is extremely rare that that is the case for any franchise, even the best of them.
10:35And Philadelphia is not exempt. And like you were saying, all the things we believed about Philadelphia is front four.
10:40You look now, they've got the lowest quarterback hit rate in the league through four weeks.
10:45You think that's the disease on defense? Like you think that's the issue that's plaguing them right now?
10:50That would make the most sense. That's my takeaway as well.
10:53I think that's the easiest thing. That's the easiest thing to point to that A is causing them problems and B that
11:00you can sell yourself on regression back to the mean positively for this defense, right?
11:04That they've built this entire thing on being able to get home with four.
11:08You've got good enough players to get home with four.
11:11You've got to believe that over the course of a 17-game season that more contact on the quarterback will start happening and
11:17you're not going to have to blitz. And then there's also that baked in trust that your defensive play caller, who's one
11:24of the greatest that we've seen in the NFL history, will figure out ways to manufacture pressure if that four-man rush is not enough.
11:31I think that's your finger-crossed case if you're an Eagles fan to say, hey, even if this offense actually is bottoms up,
11:37we might still be able to squeak a 9-8, 10-7 season where we can kind of backdoor our way into the playoffs
11:43and get ourselves a one-game sample where maybe this defense can win us a game or two.
11:48That's, I think, what you're leaning on right now more than anything.
11:52You've got to tell yourself a story to get there, though.
11:55I mean, that feels like a tough needle to thread.
11:58I'm not necessarily thinking I'd be bad on that.
12:01Yeah, you're selling yourself on that, but that ain't what you're seeing on tape.
12:05It's not there right now. When I say I don't think they're waving the white flag, I think that some people are
12:11looking at the Juergens trade and being like, oh, man, fire sale time.
12:15I don't think so. Like, the idea that you'd be able to get some of the key pieces from this team based
12:21on one move for Kevin Juergens to me is misguided.
12:24On defense, that's going to be the foundation of the team moving forward.
12:28Like, those guys are going to be what they build this thing on.
12:31The Juergens trade to me feels like a we know we're not really going anywhere.
12:36This is a guy who doesn't have a position right now because he was really struggling at guard.
12:41His body has failed him before. We have long-term concerns about his health to get offered a second-round pick for that player
12:47in this moment, given the current state of your offense and the current state of your season.
12:52You can't really say no to that. But on a multi-year level, you're still trying to keep the vast majority of this roster together.
12:59The question becomes, how are you going to rebuild this offensive line in time to make the rest of the roster construction matter?
13:06Because now you're in a spot where you did it with the defensive secondary two years ago.
13:11You were able to kind of refuel the plane in midair to get Q and Cooper Dejean in the same offseason, and
13:17it helped you win the Super Bowl. Can you do that with the offensive line in one single year before you get
13:24to a 20-28 offseason where now everything is on the table?
13:27You got two firsts. You got two second. You got some financial decisions to make about the quarterback.
13:32Again, I think the defense, they'll play Mitchell. They'll play Dejean.
13:35They already paid the defensive tackles. That is all going to be there.
13:39But the offense, it feels like we could be dealing with an entirely different group over the next two years.
13:45And I'm just not sure how the offensive line gets back to a place where you're a championship-caliber team in the next
13:5112 months, given the current state of the offensive line.
13:54That's going to be the real challenge. I mean, you would just struggle to find precedent where that happens, right?
14:00Like, you can find rookie production that can get you back to a championship level at a lot of positions.
14:06There's just not a ton of precedent. Right? The Bears did it in a year.
14:10Even something like what the Browns did this offseason, you can do it in a single year.
14:15But even that requires a level of aggressiveness where you're trying to kind of maximize the moment where if you're Howie Roseman,
14:21do you care about maximizing the moment for 20-27?
14:24I don't really know. I was going to say.
14:26Yeah, I don't think he's not in a Ryan Pohl's position where, hey, I've got to bring in Jonah Jackson off all
14:33these injuries and just bank on the fact that we can get him healthy with his old coach.
14:38I can't, you know, you're not making a decision to bring in a mid-30s Joe Tooney and crossing your fingers and hoping,
14:44hey, what we saw over the postseason is actually not who he is.
14:48And if he gets an offseason to kind of flush his legs a little bit, we'll actually get back to him playing
14:54at his position and at a level that we expect him to be at.
14:59If you're Philadelphia, you don't want to live in that world, right?
15:02This franchise kind of prides itself on the fact that they never have to make those types of decisions under duress and
15:08that they kind of get to take advantage of other teams who are making those types of decisions to be able to extract that draft capital.
15:16And if you're Howie Roseman, that's exactly how you feel after trading Cam Juergens.
15:20Would you like to have kept your former, you know, high-level center around?
15:24Yes, but in this moment where he's struggling, where you're kind of remaking the offense anyways, you might not have gotten potentially
15:30another top 50, top 60 pick, you know, for a guy like this, given where his body is at and given what
15:36the trajectory of his career looks like at any other point in time from here on to the end of his contract.
15:43So it makes sense to make that move. I think that you also pointed out the right perspective in that Howie Roseman has sat at a podium already.
15:51And I would say people who talk to Howie Roseman and know this brain trust have kind of been signaling this since the A.J.
15:58Brown trade request started bubbling up last year, that everybody in this franchise is kind of aware of the fact that the expensive offense days have to end.
16:06Because again, the league doesn't work like that. You don't get to keep all your good players in perpetuity.
16:11They were going to have to, you know, kind of pivot and start to bring in new bodies.
16:17And I think, you know, in talking with some of my buddies, you know, around the media, I think that my biggest
16:23question is, was if this year is about trying to figure out whether or not Jalen Hurts was going to get a
16:29second extension, and whether or not he's going to be the long term answer, and that you're going to use those draft
16:36picks elsewhere to build around him or not. But I think the bigger question now, if you're an Eagles fan and if
16:42you're somebody covering the Eagles is trying to suss out whether or not that was an evaluation that's on the table.
16:48And if a move like this is maybe an implied kind of answer that they're thinking about what the future looks like at the quarterback position and beyond.
16:56Well, that was what I was going to say.
16:59Maybe it was an evaluation that was in progress.
17:01And a month into the season, it would feel like a very quick hook or a quick closing of that evaluation.
17:08But maybe after a combination of last season and the last month and just how he's taken to this, maybe that was
17:14enough, which it's going to be fascinating. Like how they rebuild the offense specifically over the next two years and whether that
17:20includes moving on from the quarterback and trying to find another one.
17:24And they now have the ammo in a draft two years from now to potentially seek that out is really interesting.
17:30On the Ravens side of this, what do you think about the Ravens being that aggressive to go get Cam Juergens in this moment?
17:37Is it a move that I would like to have made?
17:40No. Right. But this speaks to what you have to do when you're under duress, right, as a GM.
17:45And you've got multiple centers on IR. You're going to probably be playing your backup quarterback for a couple of weeks just
17:52based off of some of the hinting and reporting around Lamar Jackson's ankle sprain.
17:56And you've got a new offense. And I'm pretty sure this is probably Declan Doyle and Jesse Minter saying, hey, I trust
18:02you, DaCosta, but we don't have to make my life this hard.
18:06OK, if you can go get me somebody to make life a little bit easier, I would love to have a player
18:12that I can at least feel certain about. And I think that it's probably a worthwhile bet for Baltimore, because if he's great, he's now cost controlled.
18:20Right. He's cost controlled as an interior lineman, as your center.
18:23You feel a lot better about trying to spin things forward around this offense, knowing that there were so many questions about
18:29the center position to start this year for you guys.
18:32Anyways, that will be a great question answered for them.
18:35And if his body is banged up, you can say, hey, man, we we took a big swing.
18:40It didn't work out. We're actually not hampering our long term future too badly because it's not like they'd have to eat
18:47a bunch of cap casualties to be able to move on from them.
18:51If that ended up being the case after this year or maybe next season.
18:55So I think that you can sell yourself on the fact that it's high upside for Baltimore.
19:00It is just a major risk on draft capital.
19:02Just given what we've seen on the field from Cam Juergens this year that I don't know if I will be the most comfortable making.
19:09It's an overpay, clearly. But I can understand the mindset that leads to it in this moment on a couple different fronts.
19:16One, you've seen what this offense looks like over the first month of the season.
19:20And if I were Eric DaCosta or if I were Jesse Minter and I'm looking at the potency we have felt from
19:26the offense, I can understand trying to squeeze onto that thing with both hands and not let go.
19:32And that's what this feels like. And I also think it speaks to a larger point that I want to dig into
19:38a little bit later on the show. How many teams around the league right now do you think are looking at the
19:44current state of the league and saying, why not us?
19:47You'd have to. I mean, if you're in if you feel like you're a top 20 team in the NFL right now,
19:54you've got to be thinking we if there's a way for us to put to lean in on 2026, we need to
20:00probably start exercising as many options as we can to lean in.
20:03And I think the Ravens, if you're looking at your offense and you know that Lamar is going to be back in
20:10a couple of weeks and that center thing is just staring you in the face.
20:14And it's not even just the center thing by making the trade for Cam Juergens and moving.
20:19Oh, you want it back to guard. You get better at two protecting him.
20:23Yes. And you get better at two positions at the same time.
20:27And you give yourself a chance to unlock this offense that I personally and I think a lot of people justifiably are really, really excited about.
20:34And so if if it all it took was a round and a half overpay to go get Cam Juergens in order
20:41to potentially give yourself that in the long term, I can understand landing there.
20:45If you're to costume, man, like, yeah, that it might look really ugly in a couple of years.
20:50It's based on his production and us handing a pick to the Eagles.
20:54But the idea of not letting this thing slip through our fingers because of what we could potentially accomplish.
20:59I understand that. Like, I think sometimes teams overstate that stuff when they're making moves like this.
21:04And I also think that's an important part of it.
21:07Like, we did a segment on the athletic show, which I do for the company with Amazon.
21:12And we were talking today about in-season trades and some the history of in-season trades and just how checkered they are because
21:18a lot of them don't work out. You know, for every version of the Von Miller, Odell Beckham thing, we have 10 Amari Cooper trades.
21:25But those, I think you're talking yourself into the idea of this is going to put us over the top.
21:31We are this thing away from competing. I don't I don't see the Juergens move as that.
21:36I see it as protecting yourself. I see it as a backstop choice.
21:40And and that mindset to me makes it a little bit easier to justify even if you know you're overpaying compared to one of those.
21:47Well, if we just get another receiver in here, this thing is off to the races.
21:52That's speculative. This you have proof of concept for how good the offense can be if you're getting an acceptable level of offensive line play overall.
21:59I mean, and there's just so much evidence in Baltimore specifically to support the fact that when the offensive line starts falling
22:06to pieces, it can very much unravel what would have otherwise been excellent offensive play.
22:10We have talked about the Ravens offense taking steps backwards because they're playing guys out of positions or you're leaning on guys
22:16that you wouldn't have wanted to to open the season.
22:19And if I'm yeah, if I'm Eric Costa, I didn't bring John Simpson in to have to ask him to be a starter this early in the year.
22:27That's my break glass option. I just like having him around because I know the guy right like that.
22:33That's much more of what you're thinking. You don't want to ask your rookie first round pick to say, hey, you're going
22:39to be snapping the ball now to a guy that you you're doing a job that we didn't draft you for to begin with.
22:46And now you're snapping the ball to a guy that you have not really gotten any reps with.
22:51Oh, and we really need to win as many games as possible because it looks like the AFC is going to be
22:58as competitive as it's ever been this year. I think like you said, you want to protect yourself.
23:03You want to insulate yourself. As a GM, I'm not going to feel good with my 2028 second round pick saying, hey,
23:09this was worth maybe costing myself an opportunity to compete at the highest level.
23:13When you have Lamar playing the way that he has over the first month, you have to do everything you can to
23:20get the most out of those seasons. And in 2024, when he was playing at this level, the defense wasn't very good.
23:26And now I think you have you should have enough confidence and optimism about the defense where we got to do everything
23:32we can to make sure we're capturing this season when Lamar is playing at this level, because when he is, I think you're capable of pretty much anything.
23:41All right, let's get to your first one here.
23:43The first thing you wanted to talk about that has been surprising or particularly notable to you four weeks into the season is what?
23:50I don't want to do too long of a preamble, but I think that you'll understand where I was coming from going
23:56into the season with Jacksonville, because I think that you guys had a few conversations about the Jaguars preseason as well.
24:03Right. What's real coming out of their hot streak to in last regular season.
24:07Right. My biggest thing is all of the things that would make you feel the best about the Jags.
24:12If you were a Jags fan over the last two months of last year in the first month of this year is
24:18all the stuff that we say does not stick year over year.
24:22Great turnover luck, explosive runs, converting third and longs in the passing game.
24:26Those are not things that are supposed to carry over from one season to the next, especially when you kind of stand pat with your roster.
24:33It's not like there was any major influx of new talent.
24:36They didn't do a bunch at the top of the draft.
24:40In fact, they got you know, they were very heavily criticized for what they did do in the draft with bringing in,
24:46you know, Nate Berkshire and just like their approach to draft and tight ends as well.
24:51In general, knowing where their offensive line has been kind of weak.
24:54So I 100 percent expected them with a pretty difficult opening season open to the season that, hey, Trevor Lawrence is going to get hit more often.
25:02Some of the turnover luck might go the wrong way.
25:05I don't think that they're going to be one in three coming out of this stretch, but maybe there are two and
25:11two and we feel like, OK, they've kind of come back to earth.
25:15And no, they're still gangbusters. Every time they touch the red zone, you get the best red zone play calls and Trevor
25:21Lawrence is ripping throws in between defenders. They're still explosive in the run game.
25:25I do think that you've seen a little bit more contact on Trevor Lawrence now than you did last, you know, to end last season.
25:33And I do worry a little bit about what that's going to look like over the course of the season if he
25:39keeps hitting the ground as often as we've seen over the last couple of weeks.
25:43But for the most part, this defense is performing the exact same way it did in November and December last year.
25:49And we're still looking at the same Jags team that looks like a buzzsaw, you know, in the AFC.
25:55I can't remember a situation. I was trying to think of one as you were talking and just like trying to land on, OK, is there an example?
26:03And the reason I'm saying this is that one of the hesitations with the Jags and I want to be clear, like
26:09I was excited about the Jags coming into the season.
26:12We have the 10 teams at the table. The first two teams off would have been the Niners and the Jags, and they are now on there.
26:20And so I was very open to the idea that the Jags could be a very good team this year.
26:26I just think I was in a mode where I want to see it again.
26:30And part of the reason for that, can you remember an example where we had one of these play calling offensive head
26:36coaches that was just clearly one of those dudes almost immediately when he got the job and the way that Liam Cohen has been.
26:43But that guy was paired with a first time, first year defensive coordinator that we'd never seen do it, was very, very
26:50good, but doesn't have like an established track record of success because that was part of it.
26:55Like, Cole, I'm willing to believe, but like we had one year of Campanile.
26:59Let's see if just this whole group can do it again.
27:02And they clearly have shown an ability to do that because with the other guys, like McVay obviously had the first season
27:08that he did with the Rams, but Wade Phillips was their defensive coordinator.
27:12Like we'd seen that Shanahan comes in. The 17 season is kind of a wash for the Niners.
27:17And so that didn't happen immediately. I just think that the dynamics at play were unique enough and we had just a
27:24lack of long-term built-in equity with the main principal pieces that I really was just in a, hey, what does round two look like?
27:31And they have come out and been like, round two is going to be better than round one.
27:36You watch us. And that's exactly what this has been.
27:39Exactly. And again, like I just keep leading back on, it's not like they brought in some all pro guy.
27:44They weren't the team that went out and traded for Jalen Waddle, right?
27:48Like they're not the team that went out and traded for AJ Brown.
27:52They didn't do any of that. They didn't spend two firsts to go get Sauce Gardner to add to their DB role.
27:58I'll push back on that a little bit. Do you know who the all pro player they traded for is?
28:04Travis Hunter. Travis Hunter, right. Yes. They traded for a guy who's going to be an all pro corner this year, potentially.
28:11Exactly. He's a guy who was fresh off of a bottoming out, right?
28:14Like I came out of the 2024 season like, you know what?
28:18If it never happens for Trevor Lawrence, at least I can say I believed.
28:22All right. Equally guilty. I gave it the good old college try.
28:25I don't have to go down with this ship any further.
28:28It's okay. We gave it a shot. And he turns right back around and you see a rhythm in his game that
28:35I would say never has existed for him in the pros.
28:38It's a great word. Over the last like three months.
28:41The confidence, putting his back foot in the ground, driving the ball in between, you know, these closing passing windows to wide
28:47receivers that I didn't necessarily look at as being like, oh, these are great ball winners.
28:52These are great contested catch guys. These are going to be separators.
28:55These are guys that you can push the ball downfield with.
28:59I think the scheme of the offense, the play of Trevor Lawrence, and then I just think the rhythm that they're in.
29:05You look at a guy like Parker Washington as like the ultimate manifestation of all of the work that they have done
29:11to build this offense to be as good as it is.
29:14And I would say defensively, you're starting to see that with Travis Hunter.
29:18We saw this last year with Devin Lloyd at linebacker.
29:21You're seeing it with Josh Heinz Allen right now as a pass rusher.
29:25Like you just see these little manifestations of like all the work they're doing is getting the maximal results right now.
29:31They have the ingredients of what a contending team feels like on several different fronts.
29:35And the reason that the specific reason I say that in this moment is that they've shown an ability to kind of
29:42do different versions of things over the first month of the season.
29:45Like this is a really maybe random player to point out when making this point, but stick with me for a second.
29:52Brenton Strange being like the fifth or sixth most important player on your offense is how you win Super Bowls.
29:57Yes. Yes. With the way that he's been playing, how important he would, how well he plays within the role that they ask him to fill in.
30:05Exactly right. And he may not be a featured piece of what you're doing week in and week out.
30:11But if there's a moment where you're playing against the Bengals team who just seems to lose every single tight end that
30:17they play week over week, you'd be like, all right, this is going to be the featured guy in our passing game this week.
30:24And we can do that. He's worth featuring in these specific moments.
30:27The offense has shown an ability to do that.
30:30It's multifaceted. And then on defense, you've seen flexibility and personnel on the back end.
30:34That's given them answers to different problems. The idea that, all right, well, we don't really know.
30:39Is Travis a full-time outside corner? Do we want to do that?
30:43And you're kind of playing around with him and Jarrion Jones and Montero Brown, all in combination with one another.
30:49And you're trying on all these different combos of players.
30:51And like, does this, is this the way that we should play?
30:55Even the ability to do that is a luxury that teams without that much depth and depth and flexibility don't even get to explore.
31:02And I think that to me is what really good, but also resilient contender worthy teams feel like where you can have
31:08the options, the mindset, and the flexibility to kind of vacillate between these different versions of yourself and figure out what is
31:15best for that moment when what is best for the long run.
31:18And I think to me, in combination with being just exceptionally well coached on both sides of the ball, that's what this version of the Jags feels like.
31:26Absolutely. You know, and you opened up this conversation with like, just how often do we see things happen this way?
31:32I think that most times when it goes this way, it's because the team takes on such an extreme manifestation of a
31:39certain personality in terms of how they play, right?
31:41You think of Miami when Mike McDaniel gets there.
31:44You think of Sean McVay early in Los Angeles.
31:46You think of all those teams. When I watch Jacksonville, there's really nothing extreme about what they do, right?
31:52Like they don't blitz more than any other team.
31:54They're not necessarily getting into cupboard shells that nobody else is playing.
31:58And offensively, it's not like they're rolling out some type of personnel grouping that is, you know, melting the minds across the league.
32:05Sometimes I just watch them and I'm like, God, this feels like the best team in football at squeezing 16 yards out
32:11of a pass play when they want to get it.
32:14Like if they need to go get 18 yards in the seam, I don't know if there's a better team right now
32:20at designing a way to get Parker Washington exactly 18 to 20 yards across the middle of the field or Jacoby Myers
32:27exactly 14 yards when they need it. They are just extremely precise.
32:30Like you said, they can take on different personalities within a game.
32:34I think that just speaks to the feel that Liam Cohen has as a head coach and play caller.
32:39And I think the same thing you would have to say since Anthony Campanile, like their understanding of what their personnel is
32:45and how to get the most out of them is way beyond even the most aspirational case for them coming into these jobs last year.
32:53And I think that that they're continuing to build on that without needing these ultra dynamic pieces, you know, young guys outside
32:59of like a Travis Hunter, you know, that are just eye popping every time you watch them on the field.
33:05It speaks to coaching execution and just how well they game plan on a weekly basis.
33:09I don't know if there's really anybody maybe outside of like Kyle Shanahan right now who is doing it better on the offensive side of the ball.
33:17Oh, I'd have a tiny bit of pushback after the way the last couple of weeks have gone over here with the back of quarterbacks.
33:24That's fair. That's fair. I think Liam Cohen has shown that he is a member of the inner circle.
33:30That is what we have, what he has done over the first month.
33:34It's funny you say that about the identity. It's the last point and a half I want to make about this before we move on.
33:41The identity of the offense and the defense is just really well constructed units on both sides of the ball that are
33:47an expression of the best modern ideas on both sides.
33:50Like the defense is just a combination of a lot of things that are working for different trees built into one thing
33:57where you're doing a little bit of all of it, but you're doing all of it well, which is really difficult to juggle.
34:03And Campanile has shown an incredible ability to do that.
34:06And on offense, it's just like, this is just the good shit right now.
34:10We're just doing the good shit right now in a way that is very well constructed.
34:15And so that's not really a specific schematic identity.
34:17It's just good ball. That's what the Jags feel like.
34:20And then the last part, I think in terms of how do you do this year over year?
34:26How do you feel like a different version of yourself?
34:28You need guys to rise and fall. We had mentioned Travis Hunter as a joke.
34:33Look, Anton Harrison feels like the player like that for them this year.
34:37Yes. And then when you stumble into guys in your rookie class, that's almost always an ingredient.
34:41Emmanuel Pregman has been such a win for them.
34:44That's it. Huge win. Think about the teams that have won Super Bowls over the last couple of years.
34:50Think about the 2025 Seahawks. Think about the 2024 Eagles.
34:52Cooper DeGene, Quinjon Mitchell, Nicky Manwari, Gray Zabel. Like you have to get a couple of these guys.
34:58And Travis Hunter almost feels like a rookie in that way just because he is a new piece of this.
35:03So let's just say Travis Hunter is this year's first round pick.
35:07And then you get Pregnant and then everything else that's happening around it, you start to feel the ingredients that typically lead
35:13to this sort of team getting all mixed together in Jacksonville.
35:16And it's an incredibly exciting place to be. All right.
35:19Let's take our first quick break and then come back and hit a few more of these things that we found surprising.
35:26We don't have to spend a ton of time on this next one because I did kind of allude to it.
35:32But what has surprised me or been striking to me is just how wide open this whole thing feels.
35:37Like it really is extremely exciting. And I think last year it felt wide open in part because a lot of the
35:44blue bloods with elite quarterbacks fell off. And this year that hasn't happened, right?
35:48A lot of the best quarterbacks in the league and the MVP caliber quarterbacks, those offenses and teams have looked good so far.
35:54But all of those teams also feel flawed enough.
35:57And everyone else, there are other teams at the top that feel complete enough, like the Jags team that we just talked
36:03about, where now the teams with those MVP quarterbacks and everyone else is just kind of smashed into this top 10 to 12 that is just incredibly compelling.
36:11Like right now, the top eight teams in DVOA, total team DVOA, are the Niners, Jags, Chiefs, Bills, Ravens, Seahawks, Rams, and Chicago Bears.
36:18Let's take the top seven of those teams and have a conversation.
36:22Those are the teams I would have expected to be there.
36:25Like again, I think the idea that the Jags and Niners are there isn't necessarily surprising.
36:30But you look at that top seven and like any of those top seven teams can tell themselves very legitimately, we think
36:36we can win the Super Bowl this year. And even other teams, like I think the way the Cowboys offense is playing,
36:42like it just feels like so many, at least 10, maybe even a dozen teams, by the time we get to midseason,
36:49if they continue in this form or even a slightly better version of it as we get a little bit more time
36:55on task, are going to be able to tell themselves, we legitimately think we can be the best team in the league
37:02or the most dangerous team in the league by the time the season is over.
37:06And it's not because other teams have fallen off.
37:08It's because we have enough to get ourselves there.
37:11And it's an awesome place to be. I mean, it just makes the entire, it makes the prospect of the rest of the season unbelievably intriguing.
37:19And so, but it is surprising. It's still just one of those things where it still feels new that we have this
37:25many teams that we feel good about to that degree.
37:28But right now, I think it'd be hard to argue against it.
37:31100%. I mean, you know, in doing the power rankings for the ringer, you know, I just put up one from the first quarter of the season.
37:39And in trying to stack the teams, there were so many times where I was like, I actually need to redo my one through 32.
37:46Like, I'm not resetting my entire, all the copy on this, but I actually need to ask myself, do I think that
37:53this team that's ranked ahead of them can beat this team?
37:56And then, and now I'm just down this rabbit hole of, well, stylistically, this team could do this and it will be a problem for them.
38:03I can 100% see. Way too many times if you're thinking about it that way.
38:08100%. 100%, you know, and this is not, a lot of times I feel like people come out of like the first
38:14month of the season and they're like, oh, you know, X amount of teams can legitimately look at themselves as a playoff team or contender.
38:21And it almost feels dishonest, right? Cause you're, you're trying to extract so many small slivers of information to make you believe in one team or the other.
38:29I genuinely went through like the top 20 to 22.
38:32And even though very flawed teams, you look at teams like the Packers, you think about teams like Houston, you think about
38:39teams like the Chargers who, you know, have been about as bad as you can be for a team that was expected to be a contender.
38:46And I still feel like, I think under the right circumstances, maybe they're not Superbowl contenders, but think what 100% ruin another
38:53contender season under the right circumstances, right? Like, and that is a rarity in there's, that is a rarity for any season.
38:59I would say, especially in one, like you said, where there are an elite class of quarterbacks that are around and they're not, they're not hurt.
39:07Their teams are not falling apart. We still are looking at teams that may not have access to that type of top
39:13tier play at the quarterback position and looking at them and saying, we still have to take them seriously.
39:18I really enjoy a season that can give that to us this early in it.
39:23And we're not just discarding teams. And now we're spending the next three months talking about the same, you know, half dozen,
39:29you know, squads all the rest of the way through.
39:32I think there are going to be plenty of teams that force themselves into that conversation.
39:37Like teams, like we didn't mention the Bengals, like the Bengals defense is improved enough for they'll probably be relevant.
39:42And then I joked about the Bears, but I think that Bears are actually a good example of this.
39:48If you watch what that team is doing offensively, and you imagine what it's going to look like potentially with Caleb Williams back.
39:55And I know there's been a little bit of like, oh man, the backup quarterbacks look great.
39:59What does that mean about Caleb Williams? The only time we saw him not against Brian Flores in a rainstorm this season, the team scored 59 points.
40:07So if you're the Bears or if you're a Bears fan, and you look at the way the defense has been playing,
40:14and who knows where it settles, but it's been better than you expected.
40:17And you look at the ceiling on offense. I don't think it's unreasonable for you to be one of those teams and
40:24fan bases that's like, well, why can't we do this?
40:27Like, are we any more flawed than some of these other teams are?
40:30Because the teams that were supposed to be super teams, the Rams are still very good, but have their issues.
40:36The Bills offense looked unbeatable for two weeks. It's taken a fallback down to earth over the last two weeks, and their
40:43defense has struggled in the first month of a new coordinator.
40:46We talked about Baltimore. The Ravens are a little bit banged up.
40:49I still think right now they might feel like the most dangerous team overall at full strength, but they're not a perfect team by any stretch.
40:57The Chiefs have an argument as to be the best team in the league so far, but I still have concerns about
41:03their pass catching options and just what that team looks like in a world where they can't lean on the run to the degree that they have.
41:11Like, everybody has issues. The Niners are number one in DVOA.
41:14They've been top five on offense and defense. They look incredible, but what is that defense in the long run?
41:20Like, how much faith do we have in that?
41:23And so the teams that have looked really, really good, I still think have enough potential issues where if you're one of
41:29those teams on the fringes of the top 10, I don't think it's crazy for you to start talking yourself into the
41:35idea that maybe we could kind of force our way into the conversation over the course of this year.
41:41Absolutely. All right, what's your next one here? Your next thing that has jumped out to you so far over the first month of the season?
41:48So I kind of cheated and joined two together, and I think a lot of it is just because I expect knowing
41:55how we podcast and we'll probably end up roping a bunch of different coaches into this topic.
42:00But coming out of the Sunday night game where I am watching the Panthers just absolutely maul Detroit's defense, right?
42:05And it's not just that game because you can obviously look at that in a one-game sample and, hey, Detroit's defense is
42:12just kind of lost right now in the mix of their identity versus the players they do and don't have available.
42:18I think it's fair to critique it from that perspective.
42:21But you look at them over the course of the season, they played a lot of really good offense.
42:26You guys, you know, specifically were talking about Bryce Young and his response to having Brad Idzik as his play caller and
42:33their approach schematically versus how he's performed. I've walked out of the first month of the season feeling great about their offense
42:39in a way that I did not expect given the injuries to their offensive line and the questions I had about whether
42:45or not they'd be able to sustain a running game that could protect Bryce Young.
42:50And then on the other hand, I look at a team like Denver and Davis Webb and I'm like, you want to
42:56talk about having all the equipment you could possibly need to field a great offense.
43:00Maybe the best collection of offensive linemen in the league right now.
43:04You've got a head coach who, if you're borrowing from his scheme, has got every tool in his offensive playbook to be able to handle things.
43:11You've got a ball-winning wide receiver in Cortland Sutton.
43:14You've got a field stretcher in Jalen Waddell. You've got Pat Bryant as this kind of like, you know, breakout, potential breakout
43:20piece as a receiver who can kind of flex inside and out.
43:24And you're watching them play the 49ers and I'm like, why is it this freaking hard for you to complete a pass
43:30more than 10 yards down the field? I don't necessarily want to lay all of that blame on Webb's shoulders.
43:36I think there's a conversation I have about both him and Bo Nix.
43:40But just looking at the dichotomy in those two as play callers, given what you would have thought about their rosters entering
43:46the league, my mind has been kind of blown in the difference in how they've performed over the last few weeks.
43:52I think just bucketing the new play callers, period, into guys that have been maybe better or worse than we thought, that's full of plenty of surprises.
44:00I was excited to see what Idzik could do.
44:03I just, I think somebody mentioned this before recently because we were talking about Bryce Young and they were like, you guys
44:09had the Panthers so low in the supporting cast rankings coming into the year.
44:13And I think part of that is just questions about the offensive line, but also part of it is that either it
44:19was the quarterback or just the entire environment offensively.
44:22I kind of feel like we had just run into a dead end with like what this version of the Panthers was going to feel like.
44:29And I just couldn't have been more wrong about that.
44:32Like the scheme has felt more alive and the quarterback has done.
44:36It's also a reminder how impossible it is to fully extricate quarterback play from everything else.
44:40Like you try to do it as best as you can, but in reality, the quarterback is going to make the supporting
44:47cast look better while the supporting cast makes the quarterback look better, play caller included.
44:51And so the way that Bryce has played, I think reframes how you also see everything else, whether that's right or wrong.
44:58But Idzig has been great. The guy on defense that I think has probably been the most impressive defensive play caller among
45:04all the new guys is Rob Leonard. How many Rob Leonard conversations was anybody having coming into the season?
45:09Declan Doyle has been phenomenal. Tommy Reese in over the last two weeks has been really impressive.
45:14We'll talk about Atlanta. I think Mike Rutenberg and Brian Flurry have been good in the way I might've expected them to be.
45:21Like those guys with their situation, the personnel, what I expected those offenses and defenses to look like, that was probably expected.
45:27But then you've had guys that I was really excited about where the results just haven't been there so far.
45:33Like we'll see what happens with Christian Parker and the Cowboys.
45:36It's still very early. They've been really banged up with injuries, but that has been a long way to go.
45:42They have a long way to go. The tape is not good at all.
45:46And the other guy I'd throw in there, like I was wondering how quickly Jim Leonard could get the Bills defense to
45:53a place where that unit felt championship caliber. And again, it's so early.
45:56Like there's no reason to make definitive statements about any of this stuff, but the Bills are 26th in defensive DVOA over the first month.
46:04Like that unit will need to be better if the Bills want to get where they're going.
46:08And so it's been a mixed bag with a lot of the first year guys, where I think some people that had
46:15some name recognition or had some heat coming into it just haven't been as good as we might've expected.
46:20And some guys that maybe had kind of fallen into the background a little bit in all of the preseason discussions we
46:27were having have been some of the biggest hits among that group so far.
46:31Absolutely. And I think that, you know, when I think about Brad Isik as kind of like the headliner for me of
46:37the guy that I've walked out of the first month of the season feeling the most encouraged about, and we talked about
46:43this a little bit with Liam Cohen and his just understanding of the team that he's gotten, how to get the most out of it.
46:51It was very easy. It would have been very easy for others.
46:54And I certainly felt this way as well when he's talking about, hey man, as a head coach, I've got a million
47:01other things that I've got to manage. I can't be in Bryce Young's ear the way that I need to be in it.
47:07His quarterback's coach, the guy that's already in the room with him, talking to him, knows what he likes, knows what he
47:14doesn't, knows how he feels about, you know, different play calls as they come in, how to build a rhythm within the game.
47:20He would just be more connected with him than I will.
47:23That has 100% been borne out, right? Like you think about the RPOs, you think about the use of personnel for them,
47:30you think about the answers that they've built in, how they've leaned into when to attack the middle of the field with
47:36Bryce Young and how versus how to set up easy opportunities for him and Tett McMillan outside the numbers.
47:42That's something you can only get by really understanding the fact that putting the play sheet in somebody else's hands is not
47:48only going to help me as a head coach, but there is actually a chance that we can get even more out of this offense.
47:55And I didn't walk out of last year feeling like there was anything wrong with Dave, with the way Dave Canales was calling me.
48:02Oh, in fact, because of what I felt about Bryce Young at that time, I thought running the ball on early downs
48:09as much as possible, getting in these hyper condensed heavier personnel groups on early downs, really trying to protect your quarterback and
48:15then getting as spread out as you can in obvious passing situations and trying to give Bryce Young something that looked a
48:21little bit more like what he was used to at Alabama when he was in college, was the best kind of two personality mix to their O.
48:29This year feels more cohesive. It feels like they've kind of added some of those more spready elements with their heavy personnel.
48:35And you're just seeing a better version of Bryce Young because some of those marriages are happening.
48:40David Sweb, we've kind of touched on whether or not it's him or Bo Nix.
48:45To me, when I look at him and Nix, I do think there's a menu of calls that Nix is just going to struggle to maximize.
48:52And there's also the you can't establish a run thing, which really predates him as a play caller.
48:57And then you look across the league and it's kind of like similar conversations in different spots.
49:02Sean Mannion, same thing. You are here really to fix the run game so that way you could get the most out
49:09of your play action passing game with Jalen Hurts.
49:11Could not be more opposite. In fact, it feels like every week that goes on, it is less of whatever they hire
49:18Sean Mannion to do and more of what Nick Sirianni has gotten out of his offense on a year-to-year basis.
49:23Pretty telling. You know, you mentioned Rob Leonard, and I think that Derek was talking about it maybe last week or two
49:30weeks ago before they played the Chiefs. Were you watching?
49:33It's like, did they just play good football? Yeah, I don't.
49:36I don't really have a better answer than that.
49:39It reminds me a lot of how we talked about the Jags.
49:42I've said that all season, but it reminds me a lot of how we were talking about the Jags defense over the
49:48last season, where again, it's not like one specific magic bullet thing.
49:52And I do think that so far, the Raiders defense has been rooted in a lot of like the Seattle ideas in
49:58a more specific way than maybe what the Jags defensive philosophy was last year.
50:02But it's still a mix of enough stuff in his background where it's not like one magic bullet thing of like, oh,
50:09this is why the Rob Leonard defense works. It's just like, no, it's just good shit in the same way that we've
50:15been talking about the Jags for the last year.
50:18Absolutely. You know, and, you know, we talked about Declan Doyle doing the same thing, right?
50:22And that was actually more of a person. I wouldn't say necessarily a personality change because Todd Munko was trying to lean
50:29more into the heavier personnel while he was there before he left for Cleveland.
50:33But really leaning into all the things that were working in Chicago in terms of having multiple tight ends, right?
50:38I had a lot of questions about whether or not that was the right way to go about building this offense, bringing
50:45in a bunch of young guys who are going to be unproven.
50:48You're bringing in Matt Hibner. I don't even know what that skill set is going to look like.
50:53You're a Matt Hibner doubter. That's the reason. You got to believe in Matt Hibner.
50:58You know, like I had no idea what we were going to get out of this.
51:02And then you're watching the first quarter, then play the Colts.
51:06And it's like, ah, got it. I see what you are.
51:09I know exactly what I'm looking at right now.
51:11Okay, we're good. You know? So I think that there's a lot around the league.
51:16I would say Brian Fleury has kind of been in that same mix of a guy who just seems to have a
51:22really well-tailored understanding and execution of, I know who my best player is and how to feed him the ball.
51:28And I know how to build an offensive ecosystem around that to keep our targets for Jackson Smith and Jigba as explosive,
51:34as healthy, and as effective as possible. I've come away really, I think, really encouraged by guys that I just had no
51:41feel for when we came into the season. That has probably been the biggest surprise for me.
51:46I'm with you. I think that that's the right way to look at it.
51:50The Idzig-Davis Webb thing is interesting because, like you said, I didn't come away from last year thinking, oh, man, Dave Kanellis
51:56is mishandling how he's calling the offense and what the offense looks like.
52:00But I do think that when you look back to it, and obviously this is hindsight, but when you look back at
52:06it, you did feel a play caller that maybe didn't fully believe in what his quarterback was capable of.
52:12And the offense was getting called that way. And it's not, again, it's not like, I don't think he explicitly was like,
52:18I don't think that was unfounded, right? Like I could understand landing in that place if you were Dave Kanellis, but it
52:24just is a reminder of how much these little tiny things matter where when you have a guy and Idzig come in
52:31and be not even slightly deterred by whatever limitations the quarterback might have and just think that he's capable of anything.
52:37And it's also the way the offense has been built this year in Carolina, there is such intention behind pulling in things
52:43that might seem mismatched into one cohesive vision in order to maximize the quarterback.
52:47That to me feels like an offense built by an architect who believes in the quarterback.
52:52Like you're not going to try to tailor it in that way where you're trying to give him everything he can to
52:58be successful if you don't believe in what the ceiling of it could look like.
53:03It felt like last year the Panthers were calling and constructing the offense to get by.
53:07And I don't even mean that as a negative where this year it feels like they're calling and constructing the offense because
53:14they believe the quarterback when you give him all the tools can play at this sort of level.
53:19And I compare it to what's happening in Denver and it kind of feels like the offense is being...
53:24I thought Derek's point about this was so good on the Sunday night show where Bo Nix I think has most of
53:31the culpability in the offense feeling this way. But if you are the play caller, at a certain point, aren't you going
53:37to get beaten down by some of the choices he's making and then no longer call the offense thinking that he's the
53:43type of quarterback that can lift it? And now you're back in a place where you're more worried about the floor and
53:50creating an acceptable level for this thing to operate on?
53:53It feels like that. It feels like the Broncos are operating in the world that the 2025 Panthers did and the Panthers
53:59have completely broken out of that world. Well, and I would go back another season and say when I watched Denver, they
54:05remind me, at least offensively, they remind me so much of the 24 Eagles offensively over the first four weeks.
54:11I remember you bringing Kellen Moore... The Bo Nix, Jalen Hurts comparison rears...
54:15Man, we will never escape him. We will never escape him.
54:18But I remember Kellen Moore comes in. He's trying to be much more ambitious with the passing game.
54:23We want to push the ball downfield more. We want to put more on the quarterback's plate to understand when he's going
54:30to be hot and where these different options are.
54:32And the offense just absolutely fell flat on his face in the first month.
54:36And then they had that bye week, right? And I think that the story's been told enough where Jordan Mailata and Lane
54:43Johnson basically kind of corner, you know, Nick Sirianni and Kellen Moore and say, we're not doing that anymore, okay?
54:48Us guys, the big guys over here, let us carry the way the rest of the way.
54:53And I think that my concern with Denver is that they don't have a Saquon Barkley who can lead the league in
55:00rushes of 60 and 50 and 40 yards the way that they did in 2024.
55:04So I think that there is going to come a point where if you're Davis Webb, you have to really kind of
55:10do some soul searching and figure out how can I manufacture?
55:14And I think that that really is the adjective that you'd have to use if you're Davis Webb.
55:19How can I manufacture a healthy offense knowing that I can't guarantee we're going to get the chunk gains that my play
55:25calling would otherwise try to go find for R.O.?
55:28It's a really difficult way to live, especially when you know how talented the supporting cast around your quarterback can be when they're at their best.
55:35I don't really know how they're going to square that circle because there just are too many times in a game.
55:41And I think I've talked back and forth with Derek about this.
55:45I think we probably chatted about this with Bo Nix as well.
55:48We're just watching tape and you're like, dude, this isn't even hard.
55:52I'd understand if we were asking you to do some very difficult things.
55:56You have the arm and the throws are there.
55:58And if you don't make the throws, what the hell do you want me to do with this offense, buddy?
56:04It's really hard to run an offense under that.
56:07When a quarterback is turning down decisions, that would be not only the healthiest and most ambitious, but in a lot of
56:13times, you really shouldn't have any other option but to take some of these shots to open receivers.
56:18It really is crazy watching how distinct the difference is between an offense where the quarterback feels compelled to show that sort of ambition and one that doesn't.
56:26It's just, it's an immense difference. And I think that you have felt that difference between both the Panthers and Broncos offenses
56:33this year for two quarterbacks who, I think both were kind of at a crossroads in terms of what we needed to see from them.
56:40Like this was the year for both of them.
56:42With Nix, it was, we're in year three. We just traded for Jalen Waddle.
56:46You're in the same system. We're building on this.
56:49We're giving you the play caller you probably want.
56:52Show me what you got. And we've seen the results so far.
56:55And there's been a lot of the same stuff with Bryce Young.
56:59People didn't want them to pick up the option.
57:01And after they did, it was like, all right, what are you going to show us as you're sitting here wanting a contract extension?
57:08And it's been the exact opposite set of returns so far.
57:11All right, let's take one more quick break and then come back and hit a couple more of these.
57:17I don't want to spend a ton of time on this one because we talked about it ad nauseum, but I don't
57:23think you can do this show in good faith and not talk about the fact that the Chargers have been the biggest
57:30flaming disaster and disappointment in the entire league. And why I want it.
57:33Yeah, we have to, right? But actually, I've talked about this so much.
57:37You live in San Diego, right? You have been, your proximity to this team is very real in ways that probably aren't good for your long-term health.
57:45As you've watched them this year, what have your impressions been, not of like why it isn't working, I think we've talked
57:51enough about why it isn't working, but what it means that it's not working to this extent.
57:56I think that the question I keep coming back to is, who does it say the most about, right?
58:02Like, does this say the most about Mike McDaniel?
58:04Does this say the most about Justin Herbert? Or does this say the most about Jim Harbaugh and where he's at in his career?
58:11And I think maybe the most unsatisfying answer is that it does feel right now, at least like it's pretty evenly split
58:18because the things that go wrong, you can point in every, all three directions and say, this is because of a decision that X person made.
58:25This is because of a play call that this guy made.
58:28This is because of a decision on the field that Justin Herbert made.
58:32It all just kind of seems to be going awry in a way that makes it hard to really kind of distill
58:38it down to like, oh, it's just because Mike McDaniel is calling these sets of plays or is mixing his use of
58:45the running backs in this way or change Justin Herbert's footwork or the timing on his throws.
58:50But that's incomplete, right? That's incomplete. Over four weeks now, if it were any just one of those things, I would like
58:56to believe that there are enough smart football people in that building, right?
59:00That you could identify that and make it and fix it relatively quickly.
59:04It's all of it, right? It genuinely is all of it.
59:07And I think that over the next month of the season, I think that that's really where my focus is on is
59:13can we get more clarity on whether or not their failures in September was a bigger reflection on any one of those three characters?
59:20I think that's really kind of where I'm trying to hone in on.
59:24My problem with that is you can't pull apart the Mike McDaniel thing from the Jim Harbaugh thing.
59:29Right. It's impossible to do. And so I think that is why, at the end of the day, I probably land on Harbaugh more than anything else.
59:37And I'm willing to admit this. This is, there's confirmation bias associated with this here because of how I view the coaches
59:43I would hire, the coaches I would chase, all of this stuff.
59:47We are reaching a critical moment with the CEO coach.
59:50We are approaching a critical moment with why we seek these guys out, what they're offering, what the argument is as to
59:56why these are the types of people you should hire to run your football organization.
60:00The argument about the Jim Harbaugh's of the world, the Harbaugh's of the world period, is that this will create a certain floor for the organization.
60:08But if that's the argument and the floor falls out of it, which is entirely possible, we saw it happen with Pete Carroll a year ago.
60:15I, why is that the argument? Like, why are you trying to establish a certain floor when we now have plenty of
60:22evidence that that floor is not a guarantee? And I don't even understand that being the argument.
60:27Like, to me, it's more about if I have a coach on one side of the ball, like, the Niners' floor is
60:33established by what Kyle Shanahan can build out of the offense.
60:36Like, I don't think floor is established by, and this may be true, but do we really think that floor is established
60:43by some nebulous understanding of, like, physicality and culture?
60:45Like, I think it kind of is, but we don't have that many...
60:49I don't want to be flippant and dismissive of that as an idea.
60:53Like, football is built on those ideas. Like, I embrace that.
60:56Like, I understand that. You need to have guys that buy into that.
61:00This is not an X's and O's chalkboard game.
61:02But we don't have enough evidence that the X's and O's guys are any worse at creating physical talent, physical, like, bought-in
61:09football teams than some of these guys who walk in the door where that's the thing they're billed to be.
61:14And so, if we're not getting that in abundance from those guys compared to the X's and O's coaches, why are we still doing this?
61:22Like, what is the argument for these guys? It's one of those things where, like, it's necessary but not sufficient in 2026, man.
61:28That's where I'm at. And that's just what it is.
61:31It's necessary, but the other guys are no less capable of giving you that necessary physicality.
61:36Like, it's not... Exactly. There's so many examples of this recently.
61:39Like, Ben Johnson's a fucking hard-ass. Like, think about what the evidence we have of the way that Mike McDonald was able to get these guys to play.
61:47Like, the guys that are playing like this that have edge are just as often coming from, like, the supposedly nebbish nerd
61:54coaches as they are from these guys who are, like, these supposed to be big football dudes.
61:58Like, I just... You look at... It's harder and harder for me to justify.
62:02He had it in his building. He had it in his building with Jesse Minter.
62:07Like, you listen to Jesse Minter talk, and like you said, he comes across, like, every offensive coordinator that gets teased for
62:13being one of the, you know, the buddies of the pencil pushers, and then you watch his defenses play in Los Angeles,
62:20and it's like, they will put six or seven DBs on the field, and they are still denting people's face masks when they try to run at them.
62:28So it is not... We can't treat it like it's a zero-sum proposition or it's a one-or-the-other thing, and I'd like to
62:34believe knowing Mike McDaniel's history with Kyle Shanahan and his commitment to trying to run the football not only in the smartest
62:40way but in a way that gets his big people on your little people in a way that's going to hurt your
62:47little people, I would like to believe that he has not lost the ability to do that or his understanding of how
62:53to mix that in with, hey, sometimes we just gotta be downhill and just punch a team in the mouth, right?
62:59I don't think that that's lost on any of the people in the building, but it does come back to what you said.
63:06Like, as Jim Harbaugh, if you're going to be the CEO type, then you have to come out of each one of
63:12these weeks with a new directive of what it's going to mean for your offense to look like the most physical team,
63:19to look like you have an edge, to look like you can keep your quarterback upright.
63:23We have not seen that once this season, right?
63:26And certainly, and if we've seen it, it hasn't been for more than like a four- or five-play sequence, right?
63:32You get these great opening scripts where you can tell people have poured over the film to put together the best way
63:38to get you down the field as quickly as possible.
63:41And then as the flow of the game goes along, you're sitting here looking like this could not possibly have been the
63:47best ideas that the combination of Jim Harbaugh and Mike McDaniel could have left a week's worth of practice with.
63:53Like, this just can't be the case. And if that's how I feel after a month consistently of watching this team, who
63:59else's feet does it land on but the head coaches?
64:02And then I think that we have to extend that conversation maybe to Joe Ortiz as a GM, right?
64:08And all the promises made of what the offensive line situation would be and how it was going to express itself out
64:14on the field and what it was going to do for Justin Herbert.
64:18He did not forget how to be a good quarterback who can make every throw.
64:22You can watch the second half of their loss not lose his ability to throw some absolute piss missiles when he needs to.
64:29It's just clearly there's some sort of breakdown in philosophy and execution and approach on a week-to-week basis that I don't, maybe
64:35I just did not appreciate enough when I was going up and watching them at training camp and minicamp because it didn't
64:42seem like this team was very far away in the way that they are when they're on the field now.
64:47I don't think they thought they were very far away.
64:50I think this has probably been shocking to a lot of people in the building even as shocking as it's been to people out of the building.
64:58The last thing I'll say about the coach archetype thing is that I do have like a half-joking working theory that you should just hire jacked nerds.
65:06McVay, McDonald, Ben Johnson just like, is my play caller like very smart and very good?
65:11Yes. Is he also jacked? Yes. Like that's it.
65:13Like those, they just hire jacked nerds to be your play callers.
65:17It's not a perfect theory, right? Like Liam Cohen isn't yoked.
65:20Like Kyle Shanahan I don't think spends an hour in lifting weights every single day but there are enough of them now
65:26and it's started to build where I have a working theory that's coming along.
65:30I like this. I like this. I like using jacked as like I'm trying to glean just enough of your personality by
65:37your insane dedication to your physical physique knowing that you don't need it to be good at your job.
65:42I think that that says a lot about who you are as a human being.
65:46I think it's a discipline thing too. Right? I think it says something about the discipline necessary to like have to work
65:53out that way and fit it into your schedule on top of everything else.
65:57I'm only half kidding about this. Like I actually do think that there is something here.
66:02We joked about Brian Fleury early in the year when I said he looked like a defensive line coach and to me
66:08it does not surprise me that Seattle looks really good on offense when I look at a guy at a podium that looks like that.
66:15That looks like somebody who is about two things looking great and smashing your face in a run game.
66:21Okay? Everything else seems very optional in his life.
66:23All right. So among the most disappointing things about the league this season and just in terms of compared to preseason expectations
66:30the Chargers offense and the Chargers period are probably number one.
66:33I think you can make an argument that the Texans defense after the way that last week went is probably also in that discussion.
66:40They weren't as bad they haven't been as bad all year as they were against the Cowboys.
66:45I just want to be very clear about that.
66:47Like the down-to-down numbers are still pretty good but those issues are still surprising and that is one of the things that you wanted to dig into.
66:55Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you watch the tape and it's like they did not change who they are personality-wise.
67:01They're not and it's not like Philadelphia at the top of this conversation where we're talking about hey, if you're an Eagles
67:07fan you're trying to tell yourself that certain things will regress defensively and you'll get more pressure on the quarterback and certain
67:13things will start to happen for you. You'll still be able to play these light boxes and stop the run.
67:19You watch Houston's front four and they still look like the goddamn Monstars.
67:23Daniel Hunter and Will Anderson are still unblockable. I would say that Will Anderson is probably playing the best football of his
67:29life over the first month of the season. He is an absolutely unbeatable freak of nature type again this year and you're
67:36just watching what's happening on the back end and it's literally every problem that it seems like they're having right now typified
67:42all the ways that they were better than the rest of the league in coverage because they never made these mistakes.
67:48They used to never have these communication breakdowns where one guy's running a crosser and a safety doesn't pick him up right
67:54and now CeeDee Lamb gets an easy 30 yard completion over the middle of the field.
67:59They never had these issues in stacks and bunches where hey guys can just run out free access into the flat and
68:05go get you nine yards on first and ten.
68:08That's not how you would beat the Texans defense.
68:11It used to have to be a whole lot more of an effort to try to find these open windows in the
68:17passing game and obviously I think Sunday like you said it was probably the worst that they've looked all year.
68:23Maybe not having Aziz Alshair had a little bit of an influence on that.
68:27I'm open to the idea that it was. I think that there's a lot of credit you can give to Brian Schottenheimer
68:33and that offensive staff for putting together a game plan that really muted the impact that Derek Stingley could have on the
68:39game while also attacking all the other ways in which that defense can be vulnerable on the back end.
68:45I thought they did an excellent job and avoiding the guys they needed to avoid.
68:49But these are just it's simple stuff. It's Kamari Lasseter not being a liability.
68:53It's Reed Blankenship not being a liability in coverage.
68:56Maybe that's where you need to start and it's unsatisfying I think if you're a fan just hearing that guys got to
69:02play harder guys got to play better right? It is unsatisfying but they don't have to change their coverage shells.
69:08They don't have to change their approach I don't think.
69:11They've just got to be in better tune with one another and some of those second half breakdowns with passing opportunities I
69:17feel like there is something to get turned around that's not going to take a lot of effort.
69:23It has just been a shock to me to watch a defense that I herald as one of the most disciplined one
69:29of the smartest while also being able to play a relatively simple football game not being able to do so knowing how
69:35good the players are across their defensive roster. The news just came across while we were recording D'Amico Ryan said that he's
69:42taking back play calling duties for the defense which that's just not the type of thing you expect that type of thing
69:48from units that maybe you thought might flounder early in the season.
69:52Right. Right? Like that's the desperation coaching staff playbook is that well it's not working so we're going to change the play caller.
69:58That happens all the time. I didn't expect the Texans defense a month into the season to be one of the units
70:05that was playing those hits and that's where we are right now.
70:08And I think it's necessary, right? Like I'm not I'm actually not mad at it if I'm D'Amico Ryan it's like you
70:14need to go out change like even if it's not Matt Burke did a great job last year if it's not all
70:21Matt Burke's fault at this point you're 0-4 your season's on life support something probably has to happen.
70:26If I'm D'Amico Ryan if we fail this year it's not going to be because CJ Stroud is lights out and my
70:32defense couldn't get a goddamn stop in the second half it can't we can't go out like that.
70:38Right? So I 100% appreciate and respect the idea that like we are going if we're going to go down on our
70:44sword we're going to go down with the thing that got me this job in the first place and that was me
70:50calling excellent defenses in San Francisco so I can respect that and I wouldn't be surprised and it may be going to
70:57be one of those causation versus correlation things I would not be surprised at all if over the next month of the
71:03season we see things start to tighten up a little bit on the back end just knowing his detail and coverage his
71:09detail and the approaches to structuring their coverages to having answers to different formations knowing what offenses want to do to you
71:16and being able to take away your opponent's best player those are all the things even when he didn't have the best
71:22players on the back end in San Francisco they were able to achieve year over year I wouldn't be shocked at all
71:28if they were able to get back to that over the next month to two months of the season the last surprising
71:35thing that we wanted to talk about is something that was the only one that both of us had on our list
71:41and it's the Atlanta Falcons the Atlanta Falcons I think and I made it as broad as possible because I think on
71:48both sides of the ball this is worth bringing up like what the offense has looked like over the last two weeks
71:54since Penix got back but we hit this on our Monday Night Recap and I'll be curious your thoughts about it I'm
72:00just so impressed by what the defense looks like the amount of guys that aren't playing for this team both guys we
72:07knew about coming into the year but even in season injuries we didn't even mention this in real time when we were
72:13doing the Monday Recap Z'Darrius Smith played like two snaps he played like two snaps in that game so one of their
72:19like de facto starters on the defensive line just out for the game and it didn't matter the defensive line still controlled
72:26this entire thing and so for the defense to look as good as it has and the other guy we didn't mention
72:32on that show that I think is worth mentioning in terms of how they're playing and the way the defensive front is
72:39playing Nate Alley is their defensive line coach he is of this system he was the Colts defensive line coach for a
72:45bit he was in Houston before he came to the Falcons and the Falcons even if their system is a little bit
72:51more blended because of the personnel that they've had over the last couple years the defensive front specifically is still rooted in
72:58four down attack Jim Schwartz Jim Washburn type stuff and so he comes from that world they're playing that way and so
73:04just really everything about the way the Falcons have looked over the last couple weeks and how just staggeringly good and above
73:10their maybe expectation both the offense and defense are playing they're absolutely to me one of the surprises of the season even
73:17if it's only been a two week sample that we've really understood how good they are I mean the defense really is
73:23where I think we should start because they are somehow second in the league behind the Vikings in quarterback hits you could
73:29not have told me under any circumstances they could have ran cover zero every snap and I would not have believed that
73:36they would get through the first month of the season being second in quarterback hits as long as you're just watching it's
73:42like their guys just play with their hair on fire man like they can run some decent stunts I think they did
73:49especially I would say against Green Bay on Thursday night you know a couple of weeks ago I thought they did a
73:55really good job of trying to show pressure in certain spots really trying to manipulate protection so there's definitely some thought going
74:01in there with Jeff Olbergen being able to kind of set up guys to be able to get easy one-on-one opportunities where
74:08they can go attack but a lot of this is just Brandon Dorlis just being a great hand fighter you know a
74:14lot of it is just their edge rushers are constantly crushing pockets moving towards the quarterback getting the hell off the ball
74:20and affecting plays that way and I think we saw this last year a little bit on the back end and it's
74:27another and it's really where things tie together they were able to get a lot of their rookies last year in terms
74:33of forcing turnovers taking away passing windows and they play aggressively this is not hey we're just going to play a bunch
74:39of quarter quarter halves and our safeties are just getting the hell out of there and we just never want to get
74:46beat over the top they're sitting on routes when they can right they're driving on passing windows when they can and trying
74:52to go get their hands on the football it's probably I think outside of some of the other things we talked about
74:59so far today over the last two weeks I would say that their defense has been one of the stories of this
75:05season in terms of getting the most out of what we expected to not be very much on the other side of
75:11the ball it just feels like Michael Pinnock's being back gives him an opportunity to do something that I think Kevin Stefanski
75:18has always done well and maybe we just didn't he just didn't have the talent to be able to maximize it knowing
75:24stylistically what you need out of your passing game to maximize your quarterback skill set there are times where I watch Atlanta
75:30and I'm like who did this guy work for again because I feel like I'm watching the air choreo right like you've
75:37got a bunch of routes that are 18 to 25 yards deep breaking across the middle of the field Michael Pinnock's got
75:43max protection and he's just ripping the ball and it's impressive to me that Stefanski and Tommy Reese were able to step
75:50in really not knowing what version of Michael Pinnock's they were even going to get because of how banged up he was
75:56all off season but clearly having enough presence of mind to say his skill set is X and we can get into
76:02these certain things in our playbook with Drake London with their use of tight ends to be able to get him clean
76:09pockets and give him opportunities to aggressively attack down the field and all of that is possible not because of their play
76:15calling but obviously don't want to leave out the effect that Bijan Robinson has on every defense and what you have to
76:21account for with him on a down-to-down basis what they've done up front with the run game it's just such a cool
76:28example of how run game quality and even like offensive line and overall schematic quality can also be impacted by the back
76:34they're the best example of this where I think that and it's it really kind of flies in the face of how
76:40we talked about running back value for a very long time and to me this is like the best example on the
76:47other side of it where if the running back is often a product of the situation the environment you place him into
76:53it inherently limits the value of that player he makes the environment better yeah it's like the way that his ability to
77:00set things up the pace that he plays with like the combination blocks are more effective when Bijan Robinson is the running
77:06back because of the timing he plays with in order to set those things up than they might be for a back
77:12who can't play that way and so you want to give some credit to like oh look at what Bill Callahan and
77:19the offensive line and all those guys are doing and they're really giving him these opportunities and then you watch the plays
77:25unfold and it's like well yeah it's all well constructed but at the same time he's making everything else look better it's
77:31just and I know this can't happen with running backs he's not the first player that's ever felt this way but it's
77:38the most obvious example of it that I can possibly remember like I think that we've had backs that transcend the situation
77:44that you put them in and show the value because of that but I think most of the backs who you can
77:50credibly say that about are doing it at the end of plays right it's the Derrick Henry's it's the Saquon Barkley's where
77:57what they're getting yeah Jonathan Taylor's a great example where what they're getting is if the play is blocked for six they're
78:03getting you 80 and that's where you feel the gap between those players and the rest of them Bajan is not but
78:10he's even better at it what he's doing is an even more refined exaggerated example of that exact same idea and it's
78:16just watching it happen in real time it's head spinning but in a cool way I'm trying to figure out how this
78:22is it's accelerating everything and Le'Veon Bell you mentioned I don't think their run game was really not explosive it's probably hard
78:29for people to conceptualize this way because their run game wasn't often explosive enough on a consistent basis but I thought about
78:35Marshawn Lynch with those later Seattle offensive lines of being able to hey he can jump cut he can dead leg he
78:41can push bring his weight one way to the other he can change directions out this block to be able to finish
78:48this play in a way that most running backs can't I would say maybe like John than it is with Bajan where
78:54he's reversing field after running into a wall and making guys miss it's a miss tackles thing more than a he's lift
79:00Kenneth Walker is lifting the environment in a way that I think we've seen more often before and makes more sense than
79:07what Bajan is doing like I think that if you tape for the Falcons Bajan Robinson is doing that in slightly different
79:13ways but he's also somebody that can be a home run hitter right so he's doing the stuff that Marshawn Lynch was
79:20doing for the 2013 Seahawks and how he's lifting the quality of the offensive line but he's also ripping off 60 yard
79:26touchdown runs like he's Jamal Charles was what the combination of the stuff we're talking about in terms of running back nuance
79:32with that explosive ability like maybe that's actually the guy that we should be throwing out there but the fact that you're
79:39having for today Deontay please tell the people where they can check out all of the wonderful stuff that you were doing
79:45these days working at the ringer so ball nor notebook comes out every now comment and leave a rating we'll see you
79:51next time

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