Week 4 Hangover: Bryce Young's big night, the Chargers season gets worse, and the Giants move into first place
STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.
56 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Oct 6, 2026
Published
Tue, October 6, 2026
18
Player insights
16
Players mentioned
Topics
Bryce YoungJustin HerbertAmon-Ra St. BrownChuba HubbardEmanuel WilsonGeorge HolaniJadarian PriceJalen McMillanJameson WilliamsJared GoffJaxon Smith-NjigbaKeaton MitchellMalik NabersNick Mullens
Player analysis
Player insights
Amon-Ra St. Brown
NegativeRole41:34
Mentioned as a pass rusher in the Seahawks defense's Week 4 performance against the Chargers.
Insight pageBryce Young
PositiveProjection0:01
Seventh in the NFL in EPA per dropback through four games; demonstrated significant improvement over his first two seasons with the Panthers. Showed ability to stand in the pocket under pressure, find windows to throw around defenders, and make aggressive downfield throws. Completed 9 of 11 for 95 yards against the blitz with 8 air yards per attempt and 2.67 time to throw, indicating he's playing faster while pushing the ball downfield rather than living underneath. Analysts note this represents genuine growth and not just a hot streak, though they want to see sustained performance over a longer period before fully committing to the improvement.
Insight pagePositiveProjection18:18
Young had a strong performance in Week 4 against the Lions despite the Panthers offense operating with significant injuries along the offensive line, including backup left guard play after Rowe Freeling, Moten, Coker, and Damian Lewis were unavailable. Brad Idzik noted the offense's ability to sustain and execute over two years despite moving pieces along the line was "incredibly impressive stuff across the board."
Insight pageChuba Hubbard
NegativeUsage3:00
Received a short flip from Bryce Young on the Panthers' second drive, with Young finding space in the pocket to make the play. Also involved in fourth-and-four play where Young flipped the ball to him as part of the offense's creative play-calling.
Insight pageEmanuel Wilson
NegativeRole40:25
Wilson is part of the running back rotation with George Helani while Jadarian Price is injured; the Seahawks are trying to get by at the position without Price's explosive run capability.
Insight pageGeorge Holani
NegativeRole40:25
Helani is part of the running back rotation with Emmanuel Wilson while Jadarian Price is injured; the Seahawks are trying to get by at the position without Price's explosive run capability.
Insight pageJadarian Price
NegativeInjury40:28
Price is hurt and will not play, forcing the Seahawks to work with a combination of George Helani and Emmanuel Wilson at running back; the team is missing the explosive run potential Price provides.
Insight pageJalen McMillan
NegativeUsage2:03
McMillan was used in creative ways by the Seahawks offense, including a reverse play that resulted in a touchdown, as the team tried to generate explosive plays without injured running back Jadarian Price.
Insight pageJameson Williams
NegativeUsage21:58
Jameson Williams had multiple execution errors in Week 4 against the Panthers, including gator-arming a go ball down the right sideline and failing to secure a dig route after getting two hands on it following pressure. Brad Idzik noted these were part of a broader pattern of execution mistakes when the Lions were forced to operate in an uncharacteristic shotgun-heavy scheme.
Insight pageJared Goff
NegativeProjection21:58
Goff appeared finicky and frantic in Week 4 against the Panthers, operating out of shotgun on 90% of his pass attempts despite the Lions' preference for under-center play action. Brad Idzik attributed the erratic performance partly to the uncharacteristic offensive scheme and execution errors from receivers, noting Goff felt "a little bit more finicky and frantic than I think he normally does" due to the heavy shotgun usage and pressure concerns.
Insight pageJaxon Smith-Njigba
PositiveUsage36:50
Brad Idzik highlights a key third-and-16 conversion in the second quarter (Seahawks up 7-3) where Darnold hit JSN in cover two for a crucial first down. Idzik praises the play design: "the only guy we can get these 16 yards is JSN," with JSN running a deep skinny post into the isolated side while Cooper Cup pinned down the linebacker and pole player on the trip side, creating throwing lanes. This conversion flipped the game momentum; the Seahawks scored on the next possession and went on to win decisively.
Insight pageJustin Herbert
NegativeProjection27:07
Justin Herbert threw two of the worst interceptions of his NFL career in Week 4 against the Seahawks, both on inexplicable decisions to throw directly at linebackers who were never going to be anywhere else. Brad Idzik called them "inexcusable" and noted Herbert "deserves plenty of culpability in the way that this thing has looked over the first month of the season," adding these were similar to his dumbest interception from the prior week where he threw at a post safety.
Insight pageNegativeProjection36:04
Brad Idzik characterizes the Chargers offense as an "absolute disaster" where "every single idea, fanciful idea that people had about how good this could be" and "the idea of pairing Justin Herbert with Mike McDaniel" and "the excitement around this group" has proven unwarranted. "Every single thing that could have gone wrong about this thing has gone wrong." The offense remains a full-blown failure despite the defense finally performing adequately in Week 4.
Insight pageKeaton Mitchell
NegativeUsage27:07
Keaton Mitchell had drops in Week 4 against the Seahawks as part of the Chargers' offensive execution problems. Brad Idzik cited these as part of a broader pattern of execution errors and play-calling issues that made the Chargers offense "unwatchable" for about 95% of the game.
Insight pageMalik Nabers
PositiveRole45:23
Nabers was identified as one of the two best players on the field in the Giants' 36-24 win over Arizona; he conjured plays out of thin air for the offense multiple times, including a highlight-reel corner route catch where he was not even really open but made an insane twirly catch that evoked Odell Beckham comparisons. Brad Idzik emphasized this as exactly what the Giants need from their top-five draft pick—flashes of special playmaking ability when healthy.
Insight pageNick Mullens
NegativeRole44:30
Mullens is being used as a missile/battering ram in the Ravens' offense in year two, similar to how Frankie Lufu was deployed. Brad Idzik noted that while this usage pattern may be a detriment to his long-term development as a quarterback, he is comfortable with the Ravens using Mullens however they need to in order to build the best defense possible in year two.
Insight pageOmarion Hampton
NegativeRole27:07
Marion Hampton had a 15-yard run on a counter play in Week 4 against the Seahawks, showing some promise in the run game, but Brad Idzik noted the broader context that "every single fanciful idea that people had about how good this could be" for the Chargers offense has not materialized. Hampton was expected to take a step forward, but those expectations have not been met as the offense has been "an absolute disaster."
Insight pageQuentin Johnston
NegativeRole27:07
Quentin Johnson ran a reverse that went for negative four yards in Week 4 against the Seahawks, part of a frustrating sequence of play-calling decisions. Brad Idzik noted Johnson hasn't taken a step from what was expected to be a promising 2025 season, and questioned the offensive design given the Chargers lack horizontal stretch and threat in the offense.
Insight pageFull transcript
Episode Transcript
0:00Welcome to The Athletic Football Show brought to you by the U.S.
0:03Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays. Today, it's the week four hangover.
0:07Me and Derek broke down three games from last night that we did not have a chance to dig into on the week four recap.
0:13Talked about Panthers Lions and just a really impressive performance from Bryce Young in the Panthers offense.
0:18Dug into the Chargers Seahawks game, whatever the opposite of the Panthers offensive performance was.
0:22That's how I felt about the way that the Chargers offense played in this game.
0:26And then rounded things out. Digging in to Cardinals Giants.
0:28Those three games today on the hangover with me and Derek, let's get to them right now.
0:33It's the week four hangover three games that we're getting to today.
0:36We're going to chat a little bit about Chargers Seahawks later, which man excited for that conversation.
0:41They're also going to dig into Giants Cardinals, but we're going to start things off with the Sunday night football game hit
0:46on it a little bit at the beginning of the Sunday night show last night, which we'll do every week, we will
0:52probably in mention in passing mentioned what happened on Sunday.
0:55Night before digging into it in earnest. We really like to be able to revisit and talk about that game with some actual focus.
1:01And so that's often why we save it for the Monday hangover.
1:04And this is a game that was worth focusing on.
1:07What an exciting outing from the Carolina Panthers and their offense.
1:10Derek, let's just start there. What were your impressions of Bryce Young in this game?
1:14I, okay. I will give Bryce Young his flowers.
1:16I promise. I was so impressed with Brad Idzik in the way that they called it.
1:20I thought we can talk about that. It holistically.
1:23So much of it was incredibly impressive. And so I just, and I think actually why I want to kind of frame
1:29it that way is that I think it was a tale of two halves in a way.
1:33I thought the first half, like Bryce Young was like fine.
1:36And I thought a lot of way that they were moving the ball in the first half was they were RPOing them to death.
1:42They were finding a lot of these crossers that they really wanted.
1:45Like they ran, especially in the first half, like one of the, on one of their first plays with about 10 minutes
1:51in the first quarter, they hit an RPO into the flat with about four minutes left.
1:55They like motion a guy from left to right and run that like spot wheel concept, but they also get the tight end out in the flat.
2:03They throw that to him. They go back to that same concept in the second quarter and they hit Ted Arroa McMillan on like the little spot slant.
2:10They were able to do that. They had a third down conversion later in the game where they threw like an RPO bubble.
2:16There was another one late in the first quarter where they hit Ted Arroa McMillan on a stick on an RPO bubble.
2:22Like it felt very college. And I think that they were doing a good job of finding all the holes in the defense that way.
2:28And then in the second half, I think is where you actually saw a lot of the Bryce Young, like standing in
2:34there under pressure, getting to his third read, you know, deep in the play, being able to make those throws.
2:39It really was like a, you kind of got all of what you would have wanted from the offense in the two different halves.
2:46I felt. I understand what you're saying. I think my takeaway from the game and my takeaway from what Bryce Young season
2:52has looked like up to this point is that I think he's been a really impressive problem solver.
2:56I think that has manifested in a bunch of different ways.
2:59I think he's done some of that on his own.
3:02We've talked about that. And there were several moments in this game where it came up where he, the little, even the
3:08little flippy added Chuba on their second drive, he finds space in the pocket in order to do that.
3:13On the third drive, he slides to his right, just a little bit against the blitz and hits Ted Arroa McMillan on third nine for 26 yards.
3:20The little flip to Mechie on fourth and four on that exact same drive, he's finding just enough space against a pressure
3:26as McNeil is kind of condensing the pocket. And that has really stuck out to me this entire season is just his
3:31ability to within the pocket, even as things are a little bit muddy, either finding a little bit of space to throw,
3:37finding a little bit of space to extend. I think he's done such a good job of that, of solving problems on
3:43his own in a lot of ways this season.
3:45But by leaning into the RPOs, you allow him to be a problem solver in a different way.
3:50You're giving him a tool to do it. And so even if they were really leaning on that in the first half, he's good at that.
3:57But you should lean on that and you should have it as a tool in your box if you're building this Panthers
4:03offense because of who your quarterback is. So I'm with you.
4:06I think the second half to me was more impressive just in terms of the big boy NFL quarterbacking things that he was doing.
4:12But for this offense and this quarterback specifically, you should have that as something you can lean on consistently because that's a strength of his game.
4:19Yeah, that was not a criticism at all. He's it's what he was really good at in college is being able being right with that stuff.
4:26The ball comes out really fast from his hand, like his release has always been really quick.
4:30And now I think what we're seeing from him, and this is a big criticism I had with him even coming out,
4:36but obviously earlier in his career, his ability to like find a way to throw around people was always going to be
4:42the biggest hurdle for him in the NFL. And I think for large parts of his career, you just didn't see that.
4:47And I think even against the Browns, you struggle to see a lot of that.
4:51But I think this game, you saw a lot more of that.
4:55And if that is something that he can do more consistently, that's how you start to get over a lot of the
5:00other issues that I've had with him. And so I did think his ability to do that in this game was impressive.
5:06The third and nine that you mentioned where he rips that one over the middle, like that was a really good the subtle movement was really good.
5:13I also I don't know where Derek Barnes was going in terms of his hook presence.
5:17I thought that was like he's like coming back downhill when there's nobody there because the back is in protection.
5:23I thought that that was crazy. But and then he had a couple of throws like that in the second half where
5:29I thought he was willing to stand in like the touchdown.
5:31He throws to Ted Rowe and McMillan against cover zero.
5:34There's going to be a guy who's about to hit him.
5:37The safety is coming free a little bit late and he's able to make that throw.
5:41He had a couple of other throws. Another one, too, where I actually was really impressed with his ability to just stand in the pocket.
5:48It was definitely in the second half. They were backed up in their own red zone.
5:52And it's a pure under center drop back play.
5:54And they have like stick to the left hand side.
5:57And from the right hand side, you have the wrap route coming from behind.
6:01And he gets like a little bit in his face and like somebody who's like about to cover the stick.
6:06So he's like, I'm not going to throw it.
6:08And he comes backside and he rips the wrap route.
6:11And I'm like, OK, that is the throw you need to be able to make if I'm going to sit here and
6:17say like, oh, he can't do all this stuff.
6:19And so if we can build on more throws like that and more plays like that, that is where you start to
6:25get me to believe in this thing. So that drive, they're up 22 to 19 is the player talking about happens on that drive.
6:31That drive from him, it legitimately might be one of my favorite drives a quarterback has had in the NFL this season.
6:37He hits that throw going backside on a straight under center drop back.
6:40On second and eight, they're running play action. He fits an inbreaker over the linebackers to Bryson Tremaine in like a really tight window.
6:47It's a really, really good throw. And then the Lions run a simulated, I think on the next play with DJ Wanham dropping off the line of scrimmage.
6:54And that ball is out of Bryce's hand immediately up the seam to Mechie right past Wanham's ear for like a big gain right after that.
7:01And they go down and score a touchdown. Like that sequence of plays, as I'm watching that happen, I'm like, all right,
7:07what else do I want to see from this guy if he's going to play like this?
7:11If we're talking about all the things that are allowing him to find a path because he's finding windows and ways to
7:17throw around people, he's accessing areas of the field that even bigger quarterbacks that should theoretically be able to do it more
7:23often and more consistently aren't able to access. Some of the aggressive throws that he's making, the ambitious throws that he's making,
7:29like that drive in particular, like that just made me sit up straight in my seat.
7:33I watch him do that. And I'm just not sure.
7:36Other than watching him do it again and watching him do it consistently and just having this be kind of the status quo for how he plays.
7:43I don't need to see anything more than what I saw on that drive.
7:46I just think I need to see it more often for us to believe that this is just here to stay.
7:52But I'm getting to a place where I'm kind of willing to believe that it might be.
7:56That's what it's in terms of like the beats of it and what he's actually doing, the throws that he's making.
8:02It's that game. I think for me now, it's can you do it against not the worst defense in the league?
8:07And can you do it over the course of like five, six weeks?
8:11Can you kind of sustain this over the course of the season?
8:14Because I think and I do believe that there are that part of this is absolutely real.
8:19But we see all the time that for the first eight weeks of the season, some quarterback, some offense is absolutely on fire.
8:25But I do think with him specifically, because it's been incremental growth year over year, and this does feel like he's kind
8:30of crescendoing in what is now year three of this offense.
8:33It's as well put together as it's ever been, even though I know they were banged up, obviously, this game without Coker.
8:39I can start to believe it. And so this is for me, I do want to see it more often.
8:44Like, I think I'm not willing to change 40 games of opinion off of four.
8:48But I think if this is something we sustain like through the holidays, and he really gets brings this team to the playoffs playing like this.
8:55Yeah, sure. Why not? I understand that. I think I don't want to be a prisoner of the moment.
9:00I think I'm more willing to not forget the 40 games, but come off of what I believe done over those 40
9:06games, because this has been really three of the four games that they've played.
9:10I thought he's played really, really well. And in the game where the offense didn't play very well against the Browns, they had a 50% pressure rate.
9:17Like, it's really hard to play quarterback, period, when the offensive line was playing the way that it did against Cleveland last week.
9:23And so I, going back and looking at the last two years of Bryce Young conversations, I was really excited by the
9:29way he played at the end of the 2024 season.
9:31I really wanted to believe in that. And then last year, it just didn't really feel like he took a demonstrable step
9:37based on what we saw in the back half of that second season.
9:40And so there was part of me that, I don't know, gave up is the right way to frame it, but I lost some faith.
9:47I was like, maybe this is just who he is, and maybe this just isn't going to happen for him.
9:52And that's kind of where I landed with it.
9:55At no point did I want that to be true.
9:57Like, the idea that I'm some Bryce Young hater is hilarious.
10:00Like, I think Bryce Young being awesome rules. I think a guy like this in the NFL playing like this would be fantastic.
10:06And so if this is just who he is, I couldn't be happier to have been wrong about thinking that we'd kind
10:12of reached a dead end with him. Because that's kind of where I was with it coming into this season.
10:17And then the way he's played over the first four games, I think that I probably, I wasn't right about that.
10:23Like, we had not reached a dead end with him.
10:26He has played significantly better over these four games than I think we have ever seen him play.
10:30He's seventh in the NFL in EPA per dropback, and that's earned, like, with the way that he is playing.
10:36He has a huge hand in why that has been the case for Carolina.
10:39And I think that's where I'm at. Like, he is definitely better than he was last year.
10:44I think for me it's a matter of, like, how much of him being seventh in EPA per dropback or whatever it
10:49is, how much of that is real. Like, how, like, what is the, like, is that something he can sustain?
10:55Or does he fall more closer to 14th by the end of the season, which, to be clear, would still be a
11:01massive, that's a massive win given where he was 18 months ago.
11:04And so, again, I think I still have reservations about, like, what really is the ceiling with him.
11:08And, again, I think I want to see this sustained over a little bit longer of a period of time.
11:14I will say, though, I kind of love the way that the offense is built and, like, what they're trying to do with him.
11:20Because he's not, at least now, he's not scared to make throws.
11:23I think very early on in his career when he was trying to figure out how to be a smaller quarterback and
11:29stuff, you saw him take the foot off the gas in moments like that.
11:33But you really did see, I think even last year when he was struggling, he's willing to throw down the field.
11:38Like, obviously, we all remember the Rams game, but they were doing that at times, you know, in plenty of other games.
11:44And so the fact that he's willing to make those throws to gargantuan pass catchers at every single level.
11:49I mean, like, all of their guys are truly, like, 6'3", 6'4".
11:52Plus, I do think it actually makes for, like, a pretty interesting offense to watch.
11:56I agree. And I think coming into the year, we were curious what the Idzig impact would be.
12:01Going from Canales to Idzig calling plays, what would that look like?
12:04And I think that Idzig's feel for situational stuff and just the structure of the offense, it's a unique offense.
12:09Like, there's this combination of them being willing to live in an under center, condensed world at times.
12:14So then they're living in this, like, a spread out RPO world.
12:17And that was one of my questions for people there in the summer when I was asking about what they wanted the offense to be.
12:24It felt like there were kind of, there were ideas that were disparate enough that how do you make this, like, a cohesive vision?
12:30Because you're living in kind of these separate, different worlds.
12:33And I think they've done a really good job, like, a really admirable job of tying all of it together, even if
12:39a lot of that stuff is hard to tie together.
12:41And I think they've done it in a bunch of different ways.
12:44Like, the RPOs help do that. And they have guys that are on their staff that were from college.
12:49And, you know, there are little tiny tools that they use within the offense where it's like, we're going to do stuff
12:55that is rooted in, like, NFL ideas and NFL concepts.
12:58But we're just going to be able to account for one guy on the backside of things with some of these RPOs.
13:04And that always sounds great in principle, like, when you're trying to do all of these different things at the same time.
13:09The word they used is, we could be diluted if we try to do that too often.
13:14And when you watch this thing, it doesn't feel diluted at all.
13:17Like, it feels very potent considering how many different things they're trying to be at the same time.
13:22It is really impressive how, like, they are trying to do so many different things and it never just feels like they're just grab-bagging plays.
13:28Because sometimes you get offenses like this where it's just like, like the Brian Dable, like, Titans offense feels like that.
13:34I mean, a lot of his offenses tend to feel this way.
13:37But, like, that style of thing where it's hard to figure out what is supposed to be tied together.
13:42Again, I feel like they have done a good job.
13:45And I think usually what happens there is when you get these offenses that do feel a little bit more grab-baggy.
13:50Like, honestly, Todd Monken's offense is like this. The reason it works is they figure out what are you not good at right now.
13:57What are you struggling at? What can we pick on in defense?
14:00It's not just, like, grab-bags of stuff that they like.
14:02It's grab-bags of stuff that you don't want to see.
14:05And I do think that Idzik, especially in this game, did a really, really impressive job of that.
14:10It's funny that you frame it as stuff you like.
14:12Because that was one of the other things that came up this summer is that I asked them, like, what do you
14:18want to see from Bryce in year three? And one of the things that came up is just the idea of, all
14:24right, it's year three in the offense. We want him to really take ownership of the offense.
14:28And that wasn't meant as a slight to him in any way.
14:32I think it's more just a commentary on when they got there to Carolina, he got benched, right?
14:36I think that there was a real humility to him early in his career.
14:40And he's just that sort of person. Like, he's just kind of wired that way.
14:44And I think the hope this year was, okay, we want you to be really vocal in what you want the offense to feel like.
14:51And one of the stories that they told me was the day before I got there, two days before I got there.
14:56It was the first stop that I made in my training camp tour this year.
15:00And they were talking about how the day before in practice, there had been some issues with a couple routes and a couple details.
15:07And after practice, Bryce had said something about, like, I just didn't really like how this went.
15:11And they encouraged him, like, well, why don't you get in front of the offense and say that?
15:16Why don't you talk about why you didn't like just the way the practice went yesterday?
15:20And it's not necessarily something that he would do on his own, not because he's not willing to, but again, it's just not really how he's wired.
15:27And so I think their charge to him this year was like, we want to hear from you more about how this
15:33can be your vision of the way that we want to play.
15:36We want you to put your stamp on everything we're doing in a really emphatic way.
15:40And that sounds really good in the spring, but then, or it's in the spring and the summer.
15:45But then when you watch the way that they're playing right now, doesn't this feel like a quarterback who really believes in
15:51pretty much everything that's happening and everything they're doing?
15:53Because when I watch him right now, he's playing with such conviction that that's what it says to me.
15:58Well, he's playing faster because, again, one of my biggest criticisms last year was that if you're going to be a little
16:04bit physically limited or a lot of physically limited, I think, especially in his case, you got to go, man.
16:09Like, we've got to believe in these throws. We have to get them out fast.
16:13And I highlighted that specifically in the quick game last week.
16:16But I think you are seeing it in a lot of other parts of the game.
16:20Like, some of the throws that he made under pressure in this game are like, if he hesitates another quarter second, that
16:26window is not going to be there or he's going to get hit by the time the ball comes out.
16:31And I think there were too many of those plays last year where I think for sometimes bigger quarterbacks, they are still
16:37willing to withstand those hits or they have enough arm to where they can be, you know, fit that throw in there regardless.
16:43And he didn't. And so the fact that we're seeing a little bit more on the other end where he actually is
16:49starting to just play faster and believe it. And shit, if you're wrong, you're wrong.
16:53You throw an interception every now and then. It's going to be what it's going to be.
16:58And I think the fact that he's a little bit more willing to play that way, you're seeing it.
17:03And so, again, I think I want to see it against not the Detroit Lions, but we are definitely tracking on the right path.
17:09A couple of numbers I'll throw out that kind of speak to what we're saying here.
17:13Eight yards, eight air yards per attempt on a 2.67 time to throw for Bryce Young in this game.
17:18You felt that. He's playing fast, but he's not living underneath.
17:21Like, he's pushing the ball down the field while playing fast.
17:24Nine of 11 for 95 yards against the Blitz per next gen.
17:27Which he's been really good when they've sent extra bodies at him because he's been willing to attack those voids very quickly.
17:33So, again, overall, just across the board, incredibly impressed by the way that he played.
17:37It helps when you have that guy that you're throwing the ball to.
17:40That's also part of this. And they kind of have two of them, and one of them just didn't get to play in this game.
17:47Yeah. That's the other part of it, and that's the other thing that I think Idzig deserves a lot of credit for,
17:53is that even if T-Mac did play, and he was obviously phenomenal, and just the entire passing game was built around him
17:58for the most part, and he affected the game pretty much at every single level.
18:02It's like, all right, we're going to give you a little, like, yak RPO opportunities.
18:06We're going to throw, like, deep hinge routes to you, which Bryce is going to get back to on the backside.
18:12You're going to catch those. Slot fades for a touchdown.
18:15Like, all the work he's doing inside. Truly just a spectacular performance.
18:18But when you look at the offense overall, they're banged up, man.
18:21I mean, like, when Rowe Freeling gets hurt in this game, they were already banged up at tackle coming into the year with Moten not playing.
18:28Coker's not playing in this game. Like, I just think that they're playing in this game.
18:32And Damian Lewis didn't play in this game. That's right.
18:35They had a backup left guard in this game.
18:37You saw that one play where Bullock kind of got bullied by Lee McNeil.
18:41But overall, the idea that now two years in a row, really, this offense has been able to sustain despite some moving pieces along the offensive line.
18:48Just incredibly impressive stuff across the board. I know it's the Lions defense.
18:51I know there's context associated with that. But I just, it really stood out to me, like, the way that they played
18:57and how this game was called and what the offenses felt like over the first four weeks.
19:01Anything else about the Panthers offense that you want to hit?
19:04We talked about mostly in broad strokes, but it did hit some of the specific moments that really jumped out.
19:10No, I think that was mostly it for what I had from their offense.
19:13I think all the other things I would probably say about this are just like, what the hell are the Lions doing on defense?
19:20But their secondary is not the team that they want it to be.
19:23And I think that that just kind of is what it is.
19:26Like, at a certain point, it's not worth harping on.
19:29These are mostly not players they wanted out there to begin with.
19:32Yeah. And I think that part of it is also when you look at the numbers from this year, they feel like
19:38a defense that is grasping at straws when they're trying to find answers.
19:41They played 20% man last night. They have played four of their lowest man coverage rates in the past three seasons in their first four games this year.
19:49Four of their eight lowest man coverage single game rates over the last three years.
19:53They've given up a 50% success rate in zone coverage in those three, in three of those games, at least a 50% success rate.
19:59And they've been even worse playing man. I don't suggest that this team with a current state of their secondary should be playing man coverage.
20:05But when you've lived that way for such a long time, and now you're trying to not live that way because you
20:11can't, this just feels like a defense that's scrambling for answers and can't find them.
20:15And I think you saw that. Obviously, you see that in the secondary.
20:19I just don't think the linebackers are playing very well right now.
20:22Like you're having Derek Barnes cover more than he's probably used to.
20:25I think Jack Campbell doesn't look as clean as he used to.
20:28Their third linebacker situation is not good. Like that's the other thing too.
20:32They can't even get into base because I don't think their third linebacker situation is very good.
20:36Like they're just, they're in a very difficult position right now with how they have to call the defense.
20:41I mean, there was a play. One of the fourth downs, I think that the Panthers convert in the fourth quarter.
20:47Jalen Mills is covering, I think, Mitchell Evans or something.
20:49Jalen Mills in 2026. That's where the Lions are at in their secondary.
20:53On the other side of the ball, it was kind of a strange game from the Lions overall.
20:57The Lions were in the shotgun on 74% of their offensive snaps in this game.
21:01Did you notice this? It was kind of bizarre.
21:04It was kind of bizarre. I continue to wonder.
21:06Their run game is fascinating to me because it's the opposite problem that they had last year.
21:11Last year, they were super explosive and they could not win down to down.
21:14This year, down to down, they're not bad. Like they're actually one of the better teams in the NFL because I think
21:20it's a little bit more runs that are trying to keep them on track.
21:24Some of that is from the gun. That's kind of what a lot of gun runs are.
21:28They're not explosive. They are not getting these 20-yard pops.
21:31I think they only have one this entire season, which is like antithetical to the entire point of having Jameer Gibbs in their offense.
21:37And so I think they used to run the offense where we're going to kind of just eat shit a little bit
21:43in the run game and just like pound ahead, pound ahead, pound ahead, pound ahead under center.
21:47It's going to allow us to be the offense that we want as an under center play action team.
21:52This game, they clearly got away from it. I think sometimes this has happened to Jared Goff and the Lions before teams
21:58where they feel like some of the pressure stuff is going to get to them.
22:02They will get in the gun and just hope that Jared Goff can sort it out.
22:06Like I remember they tried to do this against the Bucks.
22:09I think it was last year and had kind of a weird game for that reason.
22:13So some of these games where you can force them out of it, the offense gets very herky jerky.
22:18And I do think that one, Goff felt to me a little bit more finicky and frantic than I think he normally does.
22:25And I think that's partly because of what you're talking about there in more gun drop back stuff.
22:29But I also just thought execution errors for a lot of other players like Jameson Williams had a number of really tough moments in this game.
22:36I thought like obviously he gator arms the go ball down the right sideline.
22:40But then there's a dig that Jared Goff puts on him after he has to bail from pressure a little bit that he can go up and get.
22:47He gets two hands on it and he just doesn't come down with it.
22:51And so it's Jameer Gibbs has the drop in the seam like on the little angle route, which Jared Goff is a little late there.
22:57But you expect a player like Jameer Gibbs to be able to hold on to it.
23:02Like just a lot of execution type stuff like that when they're having to live in a when they were living in
23:07a shotgun world that they don't normally live in.
23:10Yeah, it was just kind of strange. I mean, Goff, 90 percent of his pass attempts in this game came out of the shotgun.
23:16I just can't imagine that's how this team wants to live, even if you're a little bit concerned about some of the pressure stuff.
23:23And to the Panthers credit, some of the pressure stuff did affect this game.
23:26They got free runners on multiple simulated pressures where they had somebody free coming off the right side because Penny Sewell was
23:32squeezing down while the Lions had enough guys in protection to handle some of that stuff.
23:36And so there were a handful, probably three or four moments in this game where something the Panthers were trying to do pressure wise did affect the play.
23:44But I'm just not sure that the Panthers are a pressure heavy enough team for you to go completely against type in
23:49a game like this and for it to lead to the offense feeling herky jerky in the way that you're talking about.
23:55Yeah, it did feel bizarre. Like I especially too, because the game sometimes teams that want to be under center and live
24:01under center, they get out of it early because they randomly go down like 13 zero off the bat.
24:06And it's like this game in the first half was not really out of control for them.
24:10Like it was a relatively like the first half of the game was not that crazy.
24:15It really wasn't until the second half again that you really saw Carolina really start to run away with things or at
24:20least towards like the two minute warning and stuff like that.
24:23And so the fact that they got out of it so early, I also thought early on you saw them trying a
24:29bunch of those like pole protections where you're having the guard come all the way over.
24:33And like none of those plays really felt like they were connecting for them.
24:37It just kind of felt like after the first couple of drives, they were struggling to figure out what they thought was
24:43going to work against this Carolina Panthers defense. And that amounted to them just like asking Jared Goff, who is a pretty
24:49good quarterback, to throw to a handful of pretty good pass catchers and hope that they can make enough plays.
24:54And I actually thought they schemed some of that stuff up well.
24:57Like, again, I thought that there were throws to be made over the middle of the field.
25:02And some of those are, you know, Goff missing Amon Ross St.
25:05Brown in the red zone on a little bit of a seam route because he feels pressure or the Jameson Williams drop that I mentioned.
25:11Like it was all these little bits of execution errors.
25:14And it was kind of a weird blend of I don't think they should be living in a shotgun drop back world the way that they were.
25:21But it was schemed up well enough that they should have made enough of those throws in place if they really wanted to.
25:27It just kind of feels like this might be where we live with the Lions this year, where the offense for the most part is still very good.
25:35And again, they weren't great last night. They had a 33% rushing success rate.
25:38They have 46 yards on 15 carries. And their run game has been inconsistent for a good chunk of this year, again.
25:44And if the offense is going to have three-ish drives a game where they come up empty and it's going to be
25:50imperfect, but the defense is going to feel like this, that might be enough for them to lose some of these games.
25:56And that's just an incredibly tough world to live in is an offense.
25:59Where unless you're scoring just at will throughout all, like throughout these entire games, there's probably going to be, you're probably going
26:05to leave the door open a crack for the other team.
26:08And that's just a really tough place to be.
26:10And it kind of feels like the Lions are in that place.
26:13Which is, I think the issues are different from last year, but that's kind of what it was last year.
26:19Well, like they're still a top 10 offense. It's just you have some of these like creakier issues.
26:23And again, I think it's funny that last year it was like they could still be very explosive and then down to down.
26:29They just weren't as good. This year, it almost at times has felt a little bit of the opposite.
26:34And I think especially in this game, it felt that way.
26:37All right, let's get to our next game here.
26:40But first, we're going to take a quick break.
26:42Seahawks Chargers. Seahawks beat the Chargers to 30 to 23.
26:45Not an indication of the way the game went.
26:47Just going to throw that out there right now.
26:49And that's not because the Seahawks were particularly good in this game.
26:53I don't think the Seahawks, especially their offense, was particularly good in this game.
26:56But the Chargers, for about 95% of this thing, were unwatchable.
26:59They were terrible. They did not do anything. I mean, the first play of the game, they tried to run like play
27:05action sale to the right hand side. And Justin Herbert just throws it at...
27:09This is truly one of those plays. Three different people could have picked that off.
27:13Drake Thomas is the linebacker to that side where he like takes one step to bite on play action, which is not very convincing.
27:19And he shoots back up to get under it.
27:21And then you also see the corner who's like running with the vertical on the outside.
27:25He falls off to go and pick off that sale route.
27:28So somebody was getting hands on it almost regardless.
27:31He did that a little bit later in the game where they're trying to run dagger.
27:35And he just throws the dig straight at Ernest Jones.
27:38And so you have a number of those plays from him.
27:40And then just like execution errors and drops from other people like Keaton Mitchell had drops in this game.
27:45I thought some of the play calling was also bizarre.
27:48Like there was a play... There was a sequence later in the game where they're like in the red zone.
27:53Justin Herbert makes one of his great plays of the game where Leonard Williams is dragging him down on a fourth and four.
27:59He rips this ball to Gadsden. He catches it.
28:02And the next play they call like a Trey Harris reverse pass.
28:05Like what? There were just so many bizarre moments like that from this team, from every player.
28:09And then you obviously have like Rashawn Slater goes down.
28:12Like it was a nightmare scenario game for the offense again.
28:15The two Herbert interceptions are two of the worst plays he's ever made in the NFL.
28:19They're inexcusable. Which is like the interception last week where I was like that's the dumbest interception he's thrown where he just throws it at the post safety.
28:27Who was never going to be anywhere else other than where he was.
28:30It's the same thing as those two linebackers. They were never going to be anywhere else but where they were.
28:35Inexplicable choices on both of them. And he deserves plenty of culpability in the way that this thing has looked over the first month of the season.
28:42But it's just unworkable. Like when you watch what they look like down to down.
28:46I mean there's just really no getting past some of this stuff.
28:49You mentioned the play calling. That sequence where they ran that reverse pass after the first down was hilarious.
28:55I just can't even imagine doing that at any point in the game when you look like how you've looked offensively this season.
29:01I get maybe it gives you a jump start but like let's just throw that shit in the garbage.
29:06Like let's just actually play. And the other one in this game that I just couldn't believe happened.
29:10So the game is close. Right? It's late in the first quarter.
29:13And they actually have two really positive runs in a row.
29:16They're just getting in some two back stuff. And there's like we're just going to run the ball downhill.
29:21They get I think it was Vidal went for nine yards when they were in jumbo without Gingold.
29:26Next play they run like a little counter wine back with a fullback on the field.
29:30They get 15 to a Marion Hampton. So we're moving.
29:33Right? Things are moving. Moving down the field. Building some momentum.
29:36They immediately run a reverse to Quentin Johnson that goes for negative four yards.
29:40Yep. And that was the other sequence where I was like the play calling.
29:43I just don't understand it. And maybe that's one of those plays like it works out and you're like oh he's a genius.
29:49But like I don't I don't think that they have enough like horizontal stretch and threat in this offense for you to
29:55give a shit if they're going to run a reverse like that.
29:58And what's funny is like I actually think their downhill run game stuff this season has had some nice moments.
30:04And like you literally just saw proof of concept of it on that drive.
30:07Just be that. And just be that because it's been it's gotten better over the course of the year.
30:12Like just be that. You look at the so those are some of the moments that were frustrating just in terms of
30:18the play calling the sequencing just how what they were the stuff that they were trying to do.
30:23Overall just the circumstances the offense was trying to operate and were completely untenable.
30:26The Seahawks had 12 quick pressures in this game.
30:29As soon as you get up over 10 and you get to a dozen it's just the sign of an offense that's not functioning.
30:35Like you just can't function offensively when that's happening over the course of the game.
30:39Leonard Williams. Demarcus Lawrence and Nicky Manwari all had at least four pressures in this game.
30:43Each one of them had a time to pressure of 2.68 seconds or less.
30:47That's insane. Four pressures each. And like some of these are.
30:50There's nothing you do about that. And because like some of them are just like yeah these are great players.
30:55They just instantly beat a rookie guard. Like whatever it's going to be.
30:59But there were a handful of like completely unblocked.
31:01Like there was one early on in the second quarter.
31:04It's a third and four. They're under center. They slide left to the three technique in the edge.
31:08But there's no other like pass rush bodies there.
31:11But they're sliding that way because it's Leonard Williams and you're scared of him.
31:14There are two other potential blitz threats and the two down linemen to the right side.
31:19And they just let him go. And the back has to take two for one because both guys come.
31:24Obviously he can't get him. And I think Herbert gets hit.
31:27And it's incomplete. And then what the Seahawks were doing a number of times in this game was getting Eman Wari like on the edge.
31:33But the way that the Chargers were then calling their protections was like they were treating him like an edge player.
31:39And not like a stand-up body like a linebacker or whatever.
31:42And they weren't just letting the back go. Like in my opinion if you have these situations where Eman Wari is on the edge.
31:48And you have a lot more pass rush threats to the other side.
31:51Because there was one where they had four to the opposite side of Eman Wari.
31:55Let's just full slide this thing and let the back take him.
31:58And is the back probably going to lose to Eman Wari?
32:01Sure. But I think I would rather live that way and try to throw hot than wasting Rashawn Slater trying to pick up a safety.
32:08Like I just the way that they were handling some of that stuff.
32:11And obviously credit to the Seahawks. Like using him in that way is so creative and fun.
32:16But I just thought that like the Chargers did not have an answer for any of that kind of stuff.
32:21Yeah. The offense was an absolute mess. And they score points to get back into this thing.
32:26When you look at how that actually happened on a couple of those drives.
32:29The Seahawks had four personal fouls. On the Chargers two scoring drives in the second half.
32:33When they clawed their way back into the game.
32:36Four. They had two each on two of the drives.
32:38The Chargers did not really earn those points for very much of that game.
32:42And also that's also a situation too where like.
32:45Not that the Seahawks guys are like giving up or taking the foot off the gas or whatever.
32:49But when they're up three scores knowing who they are it's like this is probably not as serious for them.
32:55And then yeah of course you get a little bit sloppy with the penalties.
32:58Like the score makes this game look a lot closer than it ever was.
33:02Which is funny because we look back at games at the end of the year and we're like oh it's a one score game.
33:08Like as you know it's a coin flip blah blah blah.
33:11And sometimes you have these games where it's like that was never even sort of in contention really.
33:16Yeah the Seahawks had a 56% pressure rate in this game.
33:19And the Chargers had a 36.5% drop back success rate.
33:21And you felt that over the course of the game.
33:24Their numbers running the ball were actually okay. Some of that is lifted by the fact that they had a number of
33:30efficient runs in a row in the second half.
33:32When the game was already out of reach. But again anecdotally they were running the ball.
33:36It was very feast or famine. In the first half is what I would say.
33:40There were a lot of negative runs early in series where you're putting yourself in second and ten.
33:45And then those sets of downs are just getting away from you.
33:48But they also had a couple moments where they were running the ball decently well.
33:52That's it. It's like truly the only positive to be found about the way that the Chargers offense played in the first half of this game.
33:59And I don't. This is over. Like there's no way for them to claw their way back into this thing over the course of the season.
34:06And so we don't have to have the conversations now.
34:09But there are going to be some tough conversations that have to happen.
34:12I don't know what you do at this point if you're the Chargers.
34:15Well and again because like Slater gets hurt. I think that there are a couple of other issues on the offense.
34:21Like the last thing I want to bring up.
34:23Lad McConkie is just like not the player that they want him to be.
34:27Like straight up. He like he had. There was a critical stretch in this game.
34:31Late in the first quarter. It's third and 12 I think.
34:34And they run him on that like deep kind of sit like at 10 yards where.
34:38If it gets completed. I don't know if he turns and gets to the sticks and converts it.
34:43But you get a fourth and two on like the Seattle 36.
34:46You probably go for that. Or you are at least in like good position if you really want to do that.
34:52He drops that doesn't get it. And that led me to kind of just like the feeling of like he's just not
34:57been I think the player that they want him to.
35:00And I went and looked this up. And I think that we knew that this would probably be the case.
35:05When this team is in 21, 22 or 12 personnel.
35:08He is third on the team in wide receiver snaps.
35:10Sometimes it's either Quentin Johnson or it's Trey Harris.
35:13And neither of those guys are superstars that should keep a player like Lad McConkie off the field.
35:18If he is supposed to be that guy. But it feels very similar to the conversations that we've had about like Josh Downs with the Colts.
35:24Where it's like he's pretty good at certain things.
35:27But he's kind of limited in the way that you're allowed to deploy him.
35:31And even then Josh Downs is like a much better player right now today.
35:34Than I think that Lad McConkie has been for this offense.
35:37And so I think it's just been really the fact that he's not been what you want.
35:42But Quentin Johnson I don't think has taken a step from what we thought was like a kind of promising 2025 season.
35:47And then every sort of promise you could have maybe convinced yourself about the offensive line is not even sort of there.
35:53And now Slater's hurt again. Hampton too. And Hampton.
35:56The idea that Hampton was going to take some step forward.
35:58Like every single fantasy that people had about this offense.
36:01I didn't even mean to use that word on purpose.
36:04But it was a lot of, you know, I think a lot of that bled into how we need the offense in fantasy football as well.
36:11Every single idea, fanciful idea that people had about how good this could be.
36:14And the idea of pairing Justin Herbert with Mike McDaniel.
36:17And just the excitement around this group. None of it was warranted.
36:20None of it. Every single thing that could have gone wrong about this thing has gone wrong.
36:25It's been an absolute disaster. Like there's really no other way to talk about it or paint it.
36:29That's exactly how it's been. Full-blown disaster. And I think like the cherry on top for this game, it feeling that bad.
36:35This was the first time the defense looked like kind of good.
36:38Like obviously the Seahawks end up scoring points. But like this was by far the Seahawks worst offensive performance of the season.
36:44And they really only like started getting the scoring going.
36:47Because the Chargers muffed the punt and gave them the ball on like the 23-yard line.
36:51Like the defense actually played. The defense today was like what you would have hoped going into the season.
36:56Where they are like, they look like a mildly above average unit.
36:59They're not as good as the Minter teams. But they give you enough chances.
37:03And they really only get screwed when it's like the Seahawks had to dip into the reverse bag.
37:07And oh, JSN makes one or two crazy plays.
37:10And you give up a screen on a short field.
37:12It's like that stuff's going to happen to all but the best five or six defenses.
37:17And you could have lived with that. So the fact that you got what the defense was supposed to be on this game.
37:23And then the offense was still an abject failure.
37:25That was like the extra bit of salt in the wound.
37:28The moment where the game flips, in my opinion.
37:30The Seahawks had a third and 16 in the second quarter.
37:33I think when they were up 7-3. So it's third and 16.
37:36And Darnold hits JSN in cover two. He's just wide open.
37:39As I think it was... I can't remember which safety it was that was like drifting away from him in cover two.
37:45I don't remember the safety. But I remember the play because I actually thought it was a neat little design.
37:50That's one of those where, buddy, it's third and 16.
37:53The only guy we can get these 16 yards is JSN.
37:56So they run him on that deep kind of skinny post into the isolated side.
38:00But on the trip side the other way, they have the number three run straight at the curl defender to that side.
38:06So he actually has to stay tied down so Darnold can throw that ball over his head.
38:10I actually thought that that was a really neat design.
38:13But you would hope for a little bit more from the safety there giving you a little bit of help.
38:18Yeah, it's to that side. It's Tony Jefferson. He's just getting a ton of depth as JSN is getting vertical on that play.
38:24And it gives JSN space to kind of break that thing off on the post underneath it.
38:29But like you said, it's a really good job.
38:31It's actually Cooper Cup who ends up pinning down both the linebacker and the pole player on that play to create the space to make that throw.
38:38And the game changes there. The Seahawks score on the next possession.
38:41They get a sack on third and long on the possession after that.
38:45And then so the Seahawks score on that play.
38:47And then early in the second half, they end up scoring again to go up 27 to 6.
38:52And so the game kind of gets away from them there.
38:55But that play, in my opinion, because it was 7 to 3 with 8 and a half, like nine minutes left in the second quarter.
39:01And you had them in third and 16. And them converting that really does flip the game.
39:06It absolutely ruined the game for them. And like that's just that again in a lot of ways.
39:11Like if you had given up that play, like that's that's fine.
39:14If the offense had given you anything like three or four bad plays from the defense is going to be what it's going to be.
39:20Because it really was that kind of performance for them.
39:23I thought down to down. They were really good.
39:25Like they were really, really good down to down.
39:28It's just you had trouble had problems yesterday. I mean, Darnold looks pretty unsettled for a good majority of this game.
39:33He looked unsettled. And the run game outside of like they got one to pop later in the game.
39:38And then the Shahid reverse was just getting nuked in the backfield all the time by Khalil Mack and Tuli Tuli Palotu.
39:44Those guys, which I will say, the fact that the Seahawks run game for the most part when it's what they want
39:50it to be is we're going to run outside zone.
39:52It's going to be right at AJ Barner. All this stuff.
39:55We're going to run weak zone off of it.
39:58But the Chargers are kind of like the perfect team to stop them from doing that because Tuli and Mack are like,
40:03we are going to set the edge and we are going to get into the backfield.
40:08And so that's another frustration is like you were like the perfect matchup for this team.
40:12You still had a couple of bonehead plays. And then obviously your offense gave you nothing.
40:16It was just all their losses this year have been particularly frustrating.
40:19But this did feel like in some ways this game should have been a lot closer and you should have had a
40:25chance to beat maybe the best team in the NFL.
40:28And you just like completely squandered it. The touchdown to Shahid was kind of awesome.
40:32Oh, I understand that. It's actually a really it's a really fun thought coming into this week.
40:36It's like, all right, Jadarian Price is hurt. OK, so now we're working with some combination of George Helani and Emmanuel Wilson.
40:42And we're really just trying to get by at running back.
40:45What we're missing most without Price is pop. Right.
40:47We have we are missing the opportunity for explosive runs.
40:50The price is not going to play. How do we solve for that?
40:53And the idea of putting Shahid in in those moments to try to get one of those actually think is really inspired.
40:59And so for them to hit one of those in the way that they did, that's a really cool just sequence of
41:05events where you're like, this is a good idea.
41:07We should try to do this to make up for what we're now missing and then to hit on it in the way that they did.
41:14I have to imagine if you're a part of a member of the offensive staff, it's like, yeah, man, I can't believe that actually worked.
41:21You know, it's funny to mention Shahid. Somebody posted this and I can't remember who it was, so I'm sorry.
41:26But they were like Rashid Shahid will just score a touchdown in every way except for catch one.
41:31Like part returns, kick returns, give him a jet, like any of that stuff.
41:34You'll find a way to the end zone. But pure pass?
41:37No, it's not for him right now. The last thing I'll say, I mean, I don't what else are we going to say about the defense?
41:44Like they played the way I want them to play against an offense like the Chargers.
41:48That's what I'll say. Like you watch what Byron Murphy did.
41:51You watch it again. You mentioned what even worry did as a as a pass rusher.
41:55Imanwari blew up a play five yards deep in the backfield as a run defender.
41:59Leonard Williams was all over the place. Ernest Jones had the interception.
42:03The defense looked how you want the defense to look.
42:05And now they're much closer to full strength than they've really been at any point this season.
42:10Because even with Imanwari back playing a limited number of snaps last week, Julian Love wasn't playing.
42:14And so now you get Imanwari back in the nickel.
42:17But then obviously they're playing around with him and doing a bunch of different stuff.
42:21I think the fact that they're willing to use Imanwari in such a varied role and keep Pritchett as one of those
42:27outside corners and keep spoon in the nickel. I almost think that's a good thing.
42:31Like the idea that they weren't just looking at their watches waiting for the moment when they could get that third outside corner off the field.
42:37I would be I'd feel pretty good about that if I were the Seahawks like landing in this place four weeks into the season.
42:44Well, and credit to Mike McDonald again. Pritchett looks like good.
42:47I still don't know if he's like as good as like the best of Tariq Wolland.
42:51But Pritchett looks a lot better than I would have thought going into this year.
42:55And so again, if he's good enough that you can allow Witherspoon to be at his best position.
42:59Because obviously last year, these two would be on the field together, right?
43:03Like Imanwari and Devin Witherspoon. But I think Witherspoon is always at his best when he's in the nickel.
43:08When you can really weaponize him as a downhill player.
43:11And I think the way that they've been using Imanwari is even more as like a missile and downhill weapon and really
43:16just throwing him at problems rather than asking him to sit in space and kind of read stuff out.
43:21Which when you're a freak of nature athlete the way that he is like, yeah, let's just send him at the problem.
43:27How do you feel about that? Do you feel like that even if it's the best way to use him right now
43:33and it really arguably makes you more dangerous as a defense?
43:36Would you maybe want to see him working on more stuff where he's having to figure out stuff in space where he's having to play more in coverage?
43:43Just because at some point you probably are going to need him to be that sort of player.
43:48And you can make an argument that's where he probably needs the most work.
43:52It is where he needs the most work. I have never felt that he was going to be a good player who
43:57was like on a backpedal really taking space in zones like playing that way.
44:01I think he's really good as a flat defender when like again, you're it's very limited what your scope is going to
44:07be or when he's playing man to man. He's actually pretty good, but I do think that he's always been a guy
44:13where the footwork is just a little bit sloppy.
44:15He can kind of be top heavy sometimes and I think some of the angles that he's taken the further he's from
44:21the ball whether it was his rookie year whether it was in college.
44:24It's just not his best stuff and I think it probably is a detriment a little bit to his long term development
44:30that they're not asking him to do that. But I think with as many other good players as they have like I'm
44:36not necessarily worried about them trying to make the best of Nick M and Warren in week in year five.
44:41I think I'm okay with them using Nick M and Warren however they need to to make him the best defense that
44:47they can be in year two for him. I think that that's perfectly okay.
44:51Yeah, and the answer to that seems to be missile slash battering ram, which he's taken to pretty well.
44:56They're using him like Frankie Lufu or something. All right, we're gonna take one more quick break and then come back and chat Cardinals Giants.
45:02The New York Giants knock off the Arizona Cardinals 36 to 24.
45:05This play this game comes down to the final play.
45:08The Cardinals were driving to potentially score the go-ahead touchdown.
45:11Deontay Banks picks off Jacoby Perset takes it all the way back.
45:14So it looks a lot more lopsided than the game actually was plenty of stuff that we can dig into.
45:19I'm gonna start with just with my big picture takeaway from the Giants performance in particular.
45:23The best players on the field in my opinion yesterday in this game were Malik neighbors and Abdul Carter.
45:28And if you are the New York Giants, that's it.
45:31Like that is exactly what you want to be.
45:33Even if this season is going to be a little bit strange because Jackson Dart doesn't play and you're probably not going
45:39to be able to get all the answers that you want to.
45:42One of the big things with this team over the last couple years is these guys that you drafted in the top
45:48five that are supposed to be these special players.
45:50And both Carter and neighbors were supposed to be special players.
45:53And we've seen those flashes, right? When neighbors was healthy, he was incredibly exciting.
45:57And I thought what Carter showed last year, it was really easy to buy into him taking a big leap and just being a potentially dominant player.
46:04And then you go back and you watch the entirety of this game.
46:08Malik neighbors conjured plays out of thin air for the offense multiple different times.
46:11And Abdul Carter was legitimately unblockable. Legitimately. He had eight quick pressures in this game per next gen.
46:16Eight. And then you go back and you watch and it's like, oh, that's not fake.
46:20Those are earned. Those are real. He is nuking the game.
46:23And so that was just my prevailing thought going back and watching this is that the young stars that the Giants need
46:29to be stars were exactly that yesterday. They were incredible.
46:32I mean, the play that neighbors makes where they throw that like high like corner route to him and it's he's not even really open.
46:38And he just makes like a twirly insane catch on the ball.
46:41And that's one of those like when he first became a rookie, it was like, oh, it's flashes of Odell Beckham again.
46:47That was another player. It was like that is what it looked like when he was at his best, too.
46:52And so, like, I thought that that play was incredible.
46:55Their offense was bizarre. We're like, I actually thought it was called and like schemed up pretty well in this game.
47:01And the quarterback was just horrendous. Like they could have scored 50 points, I thought, with the way that they were they were cooking some stuff up.
47:08Like there were corner routes left open that they did not connect on like in the two minute warning.
47:13Like he could have hit likely on like a deep corner.
47:16There were a number of other stuff that I thought they were doing.
47:19That was really impressive. Like I actually thought I want to give credit to like a Giants coaching staff that I think
47:25we all were like, what is this really supposed to be with Greg Roman, Matt Nagy, all this stuff.
47:30I actually did think in this game it was called pretty well.
47:33And like they they really picked on a lot of what the Cardinals were trying to do specifically in their two high stuff.
47:39Like a lot of their big plays came against cover, too.
47:42And they just found like a really, really good answers for that.
47:45Like the one that I really want to talk about was in the second quarter, two and a half minutes left.
47:51They get into empty. And so Scadabo is all the way at the number one to the left hand side.
47:56Malik Nabors is at three. They run him straight up the field on that, just kind of on a on basically like a seam bender.
48:02And the safety to that side, he's playing a deep half.
48:05He's so concerned about playing his rules that he's like, I got to get depth and I've got to push because that's
48:11what you do in cover to you get off the hash.
48:14And it's like, let's think for a second. The Giants are putting their best player on the ball inside.
48:19I think they're telling you they want him to run up the field.
48:23You should probably overlap and get there. But it's like a backup safety and he doesn't get there.
48:27And, you know, he actually makes a good throw.
48:30And so I thought they did a really good job of picking on stuff like that for a lot of this game.
48:35Yeah, I totally agree. I had that play as well.
48:38A couple of the other moments that stuck out to me, the dry on the same drive where neighbors makes that crazy catch in the first quarter.
48:45There was a third and six where Winston gets all the way back to him on a third and six.
48:50The blitz pickup from Cam Scadaboo on this play on this third and six is probably my favorite one I've seen this year from any single back.
48:58Not only does he stonewall the linebacker in the hole, he actually like puts him in the ground, which that was incredible.
49:03And so that really jumped out to me. And then the other play in my notes that truly like a game changing
49:09play, the play right before the Deontay Banks interception, the play that Drew Phillips makes to get the PBU on that second
49:15down in order to force that final play. Phenomenal play.
49:18And then, sorry, the last guy talking about guys drafted high that need to play well.
49:22Arvel Reese is a very exciting player. Looking forward to the next however many years we get of Arvel Reese because he
49:28also had like four or five moments in this game.
49:30Like he's he's already got so many like you see some of the flashes.
49:34And then, too, I just even think down to down.
49:37He's always going the right way and in the right spot.
49:39And it's a matter of like, man, a few more reps.
49:42He's going to know exactly when does he actually stop and like go hit the lineman.
49:47It's just like very small tweaks to him actually finishing plays and like getting in the way that like, man, the fact
49:52that he's already moving in the right direction so many times.
49:55Like I'm I'm really excited with where he's going to be.
49:58Like I the fact that they have so much speed on this defense and then you bring up Drew Phillips.
50:03He had another play in this game where they tried to throw like a screen his way and he goes up and immediately drives and kills it.
50:11And he doesn't actually get the tackle, but it forces him to like slow down.
50:14He runs right into Tremaine Edmonds, who was able to make the play.
50:18And so I actually did think the Giants defense at certain points in this game were making some really impressive plays.
50:23So I'm actually the other thing I want to shout out is not about the defense, but to go back to the coaching staff a little bit.
50:31Did you notice that when they the Giants, I think, got to it was when they the Cardinals had 14 points and
50:36they scored in the Giants get 12 instead of settling for the extra point to make it 1314.
50:41They actually tried the two point to tie it up.
50:44I actually love that because not going just getting the extra point doesn't really help you necessarily like, you know, one point is better than zero, whatever.
50:51And they failed it. But I actually like them taking the tie there because then later in the game, they went for
50:57another two point conversion and they got it. And so they're right back to even anyway.
51:01And that's kind of the whole point of why you should do stuff like this is it can give you like more favorable positions.
51:07And so I actually thought that was another little bit of like shout out to the coaching staff again.
51:12Like I actually do think in a lot of ways they're doing a pretty good job this year.
51:17Yeah, it was just a strange game. We had five combined interceptions and like those turnovers were all pretty impactful.
51:22I mean, the game kind of does swing. The Giants score to make it 1412, like you just said.
51:27And then because they were down 147, right? The Cardinals were really moving the ball in the first half.
51:32They were running the ball efficiently. So the Giants are down 147 as we get into the back half of the second quarter.
51:38The Giants score. And then on third down on that drive, Jacoby Brissett gets intercepted because Shelby Harris deflects a pass to
51:44Arvel Reese and the Giants then score to go up 1914.
51:47And so that stretch in the in the back half of the second quarter from the five minute mark essentially until we
51:53got to the end of the half. A lot changes in the game because the Cardinals were moving the ball pretty well
51:59and pretty consistently for a good chunk of the first half of this thing.
52:02Mm hmm. And like, yeah, like I did think, too, there were certain points even for as well as they played in the first half.
52:09I still thought that there were just some weird moments from the Cardinals offense, like the first play of the game, like Marvin Harrison Jr.
52:15is going to break open on like a deep outbreaker and Brissett just doesn't want to throw it.
52:20He turns it down and comes back to McBride.
52:23I thought that was a little bit weird. And then the interception he throws on the high corner early in the second early in the second quarter.
52:30That's one of those like you he leaves a corner route low and inside, which is like the last place that you're
52:35allowed to do that, which if you're a veteran quarterback to me, it's like, you know, you got to miss that high in a way.
52:42And so I just thought that was a little bit bizarre from them.
52:45But for you, for a Cardinals offense that for a lot of this season has actually had moments.
52:50It was kind of a little bit distressing that in the second half they kind of fell apart the way that they did.
52:56But and the defense is worrying at this point.
52:59I mean, there's really no way around it. But the defense is just concerning.
53:02They just don't have enough good players, really. Like Zayvon Collins is great as like a run defender.
53:07And every now and then he makes like a pass rush play for you.
53:11Buda Baker was actually awesome in this game, like especially in the first half.
53:14He was driving on every single crosser that the Giants were trying to throw.
53:18But other than that, I think the cornerback play is fine, but can be up and down at times.
53:23And then I just think the front is not quite as impactful as we were kind of hoping for.
53:28Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, you look at it over the course of the game and they just weren't really affecting the quarterback very much.
53:35You just don't feel that front over the course of the day as much as you want to.
53:40And it's they've invested a decent amount in it, right?
53:43I mean, like they paid for Josh Sweat and free agency without Walter Nolan.
53:46You know, I was looking forward to what his season might look like.
53:50And it's early, right? It's early for a year to player, but they're already a little bit banged up.
53:55Obviously, they lose Will Johnson. Like you said, they're digging into their depth at safety.
53:59There's a chance that this thing is kind of in tatters for most of the year.
54:03And they're another one of those teams where the offense does have to outscore people.
54:07And the idea that we're already there four weeks in is a tough place to land because I did have a little
54:13bit of hope that the Cardinals defense could be better than we might have expected because of how banged up they were last year.
54:19But it's been pretty disappointing so far. And if you're going to get banged up again, it's like, well, then we're just
54:25going to end up where we were last year.
54:27And I do think, too, like injuries are going to hurt everybody.
54:30But because they play such a weird and specific style of defense, I feel like the injuries kind of matter more in that way.
54:37Like especially with some of the three safety stuff and the way that they play their fronts.
54:41Like it just when you start to lose bodies and lose the guys who have reps in it, it does make for some tough sledding.
54:48All right. That is all we've got for the week four hangover.
54:51We will be on tonight breaking down Saints Falcons.
54:53So if you are watching this on YouTube on Tuesday, that recap is available in your YouTube feed.
54:58If you're watching this on YouTube, we'd encourage you guys to like subscribe, do all of that great stuff, especially if you are new to the channel.
55:05Yes. As you're listening to this, that was actually last night.
55:08Yes. Last night. What a game. Is when we broke.
55:11Yeah, I'm sure it's going to be a fantastic game.
55:13Can't wait for Saints Falcons. If you're listening to this on the podcast feed, obviously that recap is available to you.
55:19So please encourage you guys to check that out.
55:21For now, that is all we've got. Appreciate you listening.
55:24We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in.
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55:36Thank you.
