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Press Coverage - Tight End SMASH or PASS

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

45 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Aug 20, 2026
Published
Thu, August 20, 2026
28
Player insights
24
Players mentioned
Topics
AJ BarnerDalton KincaidElijah ArroyoTravis KelceBrock BowersColston LovelandCooper KuppDalton SchultzDarren WallerDrew SampleGreg DulcichHarold FanninIsaiah LikelyJake Ferguson
Player analysis

Player insights

28

AJ Barner

NegativeBust40:02

AJ Barner is a major 'sell' candidate due to a high pass-block rate (16.8%) and low inline route participation. The source notes that tight ends with his profile rarely finish in the top five for fantasy production.

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NegativeBust41:09

The source considers AJ Barner the biggest sell, arguing that he lacks upside if Elijah Arroyo secures a slot role. The source views established tight ends like Dawson Knox, Cole Kmet, and David Njoku as superior options.

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Brock Bowers

PositiveValue6:44

Andrew Cooper ranks Brock Bowers ahead of Trey McBride, though he notes that Bowers is rarely available in the third round, making him difficult to draft at his current second-round ADP.

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Colston Loveland

PositiveSleeper14:13

Andrew Cooper prefers drafting Colson Loveland at his current ADP over the more expensive elite tight ends, especially noting that the Luther Burden injury highlights the fragility of the position.

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Cooper Kupp

NegativeRole42:00

The source characterizes Cooper Kupp's current role as ambiguous, jokingly referring to him as a part-time coach.

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Dalton Kincaid

NegativeUsage21:12

Dalton Kincaid is a divisive, high-upside bet due to elite per-route efficiency, but his fantasy value is capped by a limited snap share (often under 40%) and injury history. The source suggests he is more viable in redraft where you can cut bait if the role remains unreliable, compared to best ball.

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NegativeRole41:22

The source references Dalton Kincaid's route snap share as a benchmark for the type of usage that would render AJ Barner's fantasy outlook obsolete.

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Dalton Schultz

PositiveValue33:37

Dalton Schultz is recommended as a safe, late-round pick for deep leagues or as a safety blanket for C.J. Stroud. Statistically, he has performed similarly to Jake Ferguson over the last two years.

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Darren Waller

NegativeUsage38:48

Darren Waller is noted as a potential red-zone force for the Panthers who can line up at split end. He is considered a viable late-round best ball pick due to his touchdown potential.

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Drew Sample

NegativeBust4:06

Drew Sample is considered 'drawing dead' for fantasy purposes, requiring an unrealistic number of injuries to teammates to become fantasy-relevant.

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Elijah Arroyo

PositiveSleeper41:12

Elijah Arroyo is a deep sleeper who could carve out a 'big slot' role. If he achieves a 40% route participation rate, he could potentially outperform AJ Barner.

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PositiveBreakout41:15

Elijah Arroyo is highlighted as a deep sleeper with pure upside. He reached 60% route participation last year and could potentially carve out a significant slot role, giving him a path to be a top-two target on his team without needing an injury to others.

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Greg Dulcich

PositiveBreakout28:58

Greg Dulcich is a target in Bobby Slowik's scheme, which utilizes tight ends in a 'big slot' role similar to how Johnnie Smith and Darren Waller were used. Despite a poor floor, he is a high-upside late-round pick because his role will be clarified immediately in Week 1.

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Harold Fannin

NegativeRole23:38

The offseason was poor for Harold Fannin, as his team invested high draft capital in wide receivers without upgrading the quarterback position.

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Isaiah Likely

PositiveProjection23:44

The source is skeptical of Isaiah Likely, noting his 39th percentile speed (4.8+ 40-yard dash) makes him dependent on high target volume to produce. The source argues he is a 'worse Dalton Kincaid' whose routes and snaps are limited by the team's preference for inline tight ends like Theo Johnson and Chris Manhertz.

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Jake Ferguson

NegativeRole3:41

Jake Ferguson is a 'contingent upside' player; he was TE20 in points per game with CeeDee Lamb healthy, but jumped to TE2 in points per game during the five games Lamb missed.

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Jaxon Smith-Njigba

NegativeUsage41:53

The source identifies Jaxon Smith-Njigba as the primary pass catcher on his team, noting that his potential absence would create significant target volatility for the rest of the offense.

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Juwan Johnson

PositiveValue27:38

Juwan Johnson is highlighted as a strong late-round target, particularly in 'yin and yang' tight end strategies. He possesses 95th percentile speed and benefits from Jordan Mims' absence, potentially serving as a starter for the first two months of the season.

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Kenyon Sadiq

NegativeBreakout28:29

Kenyon Sadiq is identified as a 'pure' upside play who does not require an injury to matter, though he currently carries significant risk due to a hernia injury that has kept him from practicing.

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Kyle Pitts

PositiveRole23:53

Kyle Pitts is a preferred target because the Falcons did not add high-end wide receiver competition, and the new coaching staff under Kevin Stefanski/Drew Petsing historically funnels the offense through the X and Y positions.

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Rashid Shaheed

NegativeRole41:58

The source describes Rashid Shaheed as a field stretcher within his team's offensive scheme.

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Sam LaPorta

PositiveInjury23:33

Sam LaPorta is dealing with a back injury and faces significant target competition from Jameson Williams, Amon-Ra St. Brown, and Jahmyr Gibbs.

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Terrance Ferguson

PositiveSleeper34:33

Terrence Ferguson is a preferred late-round target over Jake Ferguson due to his superior athleticism and contingent upside. He functions as a wide receiver in the Rams' offense, though he currently lacks standalone utility and requires an injury to a starting wide receiver to reach his ceiling.

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Travis Kelce

NegativeValue20:22

The source views Travis Kelce as a boring, lower-upside option this year, noting he has the earliest bye week (Week 5) of any tight end, which necessitates drafting a second tight end early in the season.

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NegativeValue33:24

Travis Kelce is viewed as a 'safe but boring' option with lower upside; his early Week 5 bye necessitates drafting a second tight end if he is your primary starter.

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Trey McBride

PositiveUsage2:31

Trey McBride is a top-tier tight end who leads his team in targets, fitting the criteria for a 'number one stud' who is a difference-maker at the position.

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Tucker Kraft

PositiveInjury23:19

Tucker Craft is coming off an injury and is viewed by Andrew Cooper as more of a best-ball option rather than a high-volume target earner in standard formats.

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Tyler Warren

PositiveUsage17:06

Tyler Warren's fantasy outlook is negatively impacted by the signing of Keenan Allen, who commands a significant target share.

Insight page
Full transcript

Episode Transcript

542
0:00This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome.
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0:25This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast.
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0:42work documents like spreadsheets, slides and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro Plans.
0:49What is going on, everybody? Welcome on into another episode of Press Coverage where we help gain an edge in fantasy football.
0:56I'm your host as always, Wyatt Burlone. With me today, returning guest, friend of the show, Andrew Cooper, here to talk tight
1:02ends because there's no one better in the fantasy industry, in my opinion, to come on and talk about tight ends.
1:09Andrew, how are you? I'm doing excellent, brother. Glad to be back, man.
1:13I always enjoy chatting with my boys, you know.
1:15You do a lot of shows here and there with people that you kind of know, kind of don't know.
1:21It's always good to do a show with somebody that you know intimately well.
1:26So what's up, brother? How are we doing? Good times will be had and we're going to be giving some real good
1:32advice for everybody out there with these tight ends.
1:35Before we get to the individual questions, Andrew, give me your overall thoughts on tight ends for 2026.
1:41Yeah, I mean, and this actually goes for virtually every year.
1:44But this year, I feel more than ever that you can kind of group every tight end into one of four categories, right?
1:51You have number one studs, right? Guys that are either number one on their team and targets, lead their team and targets
1:58like Trey McBride or at least top two. We know the vast majority of difference making tight ends are top two targets on their team, right?
2:05From there, you have pure upside guys. Guys that can, in my opinion, be a top two target on their team without injury to anybody else.
2:13The floor might be terrible for this group of guys, which we'll get to.
2:18There's a lot of those guys. But they can run pure.
2:21They could actually be a top two target. After that, you have contingent upside guys, guys that are basically one injury away.
2:28A great example would be Jake Ferguson, right? Last year, Jake Ferguson, in the games when CeeDee Lamb and George Pickens were
2:34healthy, he was essentially tight end 20 in points per game.
2:38In the five games without CeeDee Lamb, he was tight end two in points per game, right?
2:43So there's a lot of those contingent upside guys.
2:46And then the last group is guys that are just kind of drawing dead, right?
2:50And, you know, that's a deep category. I mean, you can go and say, Drew Sample.
2:55How many guys would need to get hurt for Drew Sample to be a fantasy relevant tight end?
3:00The limit doesn't exist. The limit doesn't exist, right?
3:03But there's also guys that I put in that group that might surprise some people.
3:08And for me, that's anybody where you could sit back and say, this guy really doesn't have meaningful upside, as in being
3:14able to finish top five or six. We are in redraft season now, which means most leagues are one tight end spot, 10 or 12 teams.
3:22And if your tight end isn't top six, that means mathematically you have a back end tight end in your league, right?
3:29Like you have a below average tight end in your league.
3:32So that's why we're always going into the top five, six.
3:36And there's a number of guys where if it requires either two injuries or for the quarterback to have a 2013 Peyton
3:42Manning-esque 55 touchdown season, then I consider that player to be drawing dead.
3:46And we don't even want to think about them until the injuries actually start happening.
3:51And then we'll consider them off the wire. So those are basically the four categories of tight end for me.
3:57And the first three, we can make cases for anybody that falls into four.
4:01I do not draft under any circumstances. All right.
4:04Well, so Brock Bowers, Tray McBride, they're top two for basically everybody.
4:08I have seen some takes out there and put Colson Loveland ahead of McBride.
4:12But everywhere you draft, it's going to be these two at the top.
4:16They've separated a little bit, though, over the summer.
4:19Bowers is a second round guy. McBride tends to be a third round guy.
4:23But at cost, which of those two are you drafting?
4:26Yeah, it's interesting they've separated. I totally get it.
4:29I do have Brock Bowers ahead of Tray McBride.
4:31I just don't think there's that much of a difference.
4:34I mean, if you go look at like Vegas props, which isn't the end all, they do favor McBride in every category,
4:41which often happens after a guy has a big season.
4:44For me, I'm actually not drafting either where they go.
4:47I usually make a big list of guys that I believe can finish as the number one flex player in fantasy.
4:53Right. Which when I say flex, I mean wide receiver running back tight end.
4:58And then the guy in PPR, we're talking what, Wyatt?
5:01400 PPR points is usually what we get. Right.
5:04CeeDee Lamb had 400. Jamar Jakes. Last year, Christian McCaffrey had 417.
5:07The top ever tight end season is 330. And Rob Gronkowski scored 18 touchdowns that year.
5:12So it's like just, you know, last year, Tray McBride was top five all time.
5:17315 points. So for me, I usually don't draft a tight end in the second round.
5:21So even if I have Bowers ranked ahead, that means that I'm actually more likely to draft McBride.
5:27Because Bowers, how often do you see Bowers make it to the third?
5:31I have seen him make it to the swing before.
5:34But I have almost never seen him make it to the third itself.
5:38Like where you're actually in the third. Where you're not picking him as your, when you're picking first overall and you get the two and three.
5:46That doesn't count. That's not third to me. Right.
5:48Yeah. You know, in best ball leagues, if you're drafting a ton of teams like that, like I want to have some exposure to these elite tight ends.
5:57Get access to some of those seasons. But when it comes to just like your standard redraft league, like I'm with you
6:04then I'm just not really drafting these tight ends where they go.
6:07You know, when you take them this early, you not only need to have them have a great season.
6:13They have to separate from the position by a great amount as well to really be worth it.
6:19And it's hard to say that that's going to happen, even if they have really good seasons.
6:24You know, Tray McBride, I do think it's interesting that like he has the season he had last year.
6:29And he's actually going later this year than he was last year.
6:33So like of the two where I'm trying to drafting a bunch of leagues, basketball, that kind of thing.
6:39I'm getting more McBride exposure right now with the cost difference.
6:42But I'm with you that in redraft leagues, I'm really just moving down the chain from these.
6:47I forced myself to draft some McBride and Bowers at ADP because in best ball, you have to even if they have
6:54a terrible season, if they have the right spike weeks, you can win.
6:58I mean, look at Derrick Henry. Derrick Henry was fine.
7:01Right. Like he was OK, but then he had six touchdowns in fantasy playoffs and Sam Sherman wins two million dollars.
7:07Right. Like that's the best ball is totally different in that in that regard.
7:12But my advice to people out there, I'm not saying don't draft these guys, but you only draft them where they go.
7:18If you believe they will have a top five all time season, minimum top 10, because they do need to score 275
7:25PPR points to be worth a third round pick.
7:28Right. And that is a top 10 all time season like that just doesn't really happen.
7:33So and Trey McBride, man, last year he ran so pure.
7:36It's like if you and me went out and went golfing and, you know, at the expo and on Friday you shoot the best round you've ever shot.
7:45And then the next day I just say, OK, that's just what Wyatt's going to do from now on.
7:50And you and I both know that's not the case.
7:53Right. So you're probably going to go out and hack it up the next day.
7:58So it's just a matter of like everything was so perfect.
8:01I think people really understand that. But at the same time, I don't think people realize that with Brock Bowers, he's got to be perfect.
8:09And, you know, we're such a we chase tendencies as a group in ADP so often that people think somebody has to be Trey McBride.
8:16And that might not happen. Just like two years ago, you go back and look.
8:21And when Sam Laporta was the tight end one in fantasy with 240 PPR points, you know what happened next year?
8:27No tight end got picked in the first two rounds.
8:30And Laporta barely was going in the third round because of how reactionary it is.
8:35So I think people are sitting here saying who's going to be Trey McBride this year.
8:40Is it Bowers? Is it McBride? Is it Loveland?
8:43In most years, there isn't a Trey McBride. So just be very careful with that.
8:47Yeah. Do you think Colson Loveland should be considered in this tier with them, as some people have said?
8:53I think that right now I'm more likely to draft Loveland at ADP than those two guys.
8:58If they're if Loveland's ADP was was where those guys go, he would just be another tight end I don't draft because it's as simple as that.
9:06I just I can't click that name. I can't click the name of a quarterback or tight end until my personal list
9:13of guys I think can be the number one wide receiver or running back are gone.
9:18And that list like we saw with JSN last year, I think even though McBride had such a great year at that
9:24ADP range, JSN was actually the better pick. McBride wasn't even the best pick for that range necessarily.
9:30So for me, Loveland right now, I do like it, especially with this Luther Burden injury going on.
9:35It really shows how fragile the tight end position is.
9:38A lot of the results are going to be determined by who stays healthy or not, both for the tight end himself and for the players around them.
9:47Like last year, look at Jake Ferguson. Jake Ferguson wasn't even good last year.
9:51He only had 600 yards. He was exactly okay.
9:54But because CeeDee Lamb got hurt, he got a boost.
9:57Because Bowers and Kittle and even Harold Fannin missed that one game, he finished his top five.
10:02Right? Like after the couple of true stars, the injuries do dictate what the results are at tight end, which makes it such a tough position.
10:10Yeah, I don't have Loveland in that tier. I think he's a tier of him on his own in between those two and everybody else.
10:18But like you, I'm drafting more of him than them because that round to two-round difference in ADP is enough that I think it's significant to me.
10:26It's everything. And Tyler Warren, you could put him in that group if you want with Loveland or you could put him
10:33kind of in a tier of his own next tier.
10:36But Keenan Allen signing does not help. So the gymnastics, Wyatt, incredible, right?
10:40It's like everybody that loved a player will find a way to say Keenan Allen doesn't matter.
10:45The dude led the Chargers. I mean, I'm already doing it.
10:48Me too. Yeah, of course. But he led the Chargers in targets.
10:52Like he does matter. So to me, when you're splitting hairs like we are, that does matter enough to me.
10:58And then after that, I mean, we're obviously going to get into it.
11:02But like I can't put guys like Tucker Craft and Sam Laporta in that group.
11:06Right. So that's where we live. Yeah. We're going to take a quick second to hear about the NFFC.
11:12And then we're going to talk about those other tight ends.
11:15The NFFC. My favorite high stakes fantasy platform. Why?
11:18Third round reversal. Kentucky Derby draft slot allocation. So it's a lottery-based system where you can put in your preference where you want to draft.
11:26It's full PPR. There's three receivers. It's the best place to play fantasy football, especially for high stakes.
11:31And now they've combined with the FFWC. They have a lot more contests to offer.
11:36In fact, they have a double crown bonus where you can join the NFFC primetime.
11:40And if you win that, $300,000. You can also join the Circle World Championship.
11:45And that's $200,000. You win both. You win a million dollars.
11:48So go to playnffc.com slash profiler and check the show description for a number of promo codes you can use.
11:54First time 100 to get $100 when you sign up.
11:57But also, every time you sign up for a new contest, we give you codes to use to get discounts on those entry fees as well.
12:05Thank you to the NFFC. They make our podcast network what it is.
12:09This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome.
12:12You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome?
12:15That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web.
12:18Like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block.
12:21Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks.
12:25Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense?
12:29There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18+.
12:34This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast.
12:39Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects.
12:44And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real
12:51work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.
12:58Back here on Press Coverage with Andrew Cooper. Before we get to these other tight ends, Coop, what have you been working on lately?
13:05Man, lately, just updating every single one of my rankings with so much nonsense going on.
13:10We got the best ball cheat sheet, all the rankings, PPR, FPPR standard.
13:14I also do a set called Dynamic Tier Rankings, which is like the yin and yang tight end and all that.
13:20So I've got a two-week-old baby at home. So that's where I'm at.
13:24But the draft guide over at Fantasy Alarm is all coming together now.
13:28It's pretty much up and ready. Everything I've just updated, so make sure you go get a copy of that.
13:34You use promo code COOP to get 25% off your first month All-Pro.
13:38So that's what we got going on, Wyatt. Love to hear it.
13:42All right, so between rounds six to nine, basically, we've got Tyler Warren, Tucker Craft, Sam Laporta, Harold Fannin, Kyle Pitts.
13:48Amongst that group of tight ends, do you have a favorite at cost?
13:52Yeah, I do. And for me, you look around that group, and the offseason was not super kind to a lot of those guys.
13:59I mean, Tucker Craft coming off injury, which is not great.
14:03Though they did lose a couple wide receivers. So, you know, Craft, to me, has always been more of a best baller
14:09standard guy because he's not really built for, like, heavy targets.
14:13Laporta has been dealing with the back, and they have Jamo.
14:16They have Amarasian Brown. They have Gibbs. And then Harold Fannin.
14:19And I mean, no matter how you slice it, the offseason went poorly for Fannin, right?
14:24Like, you don't want your team to come out and use a first and second round pick on wide receivers.
14:30You know, especially when they don't upgrade the quarterback position.
14:33So, for me, Kyle Pitts is one of the few guys who actually did have a positive offseason.
14:39They didn't – they could have gone out and added a high-end wide receiver, which is a death knell in many cases for tight ends.
14:47Like, if they just go out and do what the Cowboys did and add George Pickens.
14:51Like, these teams that have Pickens and Lamb, Chase and Higgins, the Saints even adding Jordan Tyson.
14:57I know he's hurt now, which has brought Juwan Johnson back in the fold.
15:01Didn't get to that. But, like, that's a huge problem.
15:04So, for the Falcons to go out and add Zachariah Branch, who's just kind of a slot flanker type guy, and add
15:11Jahan Dotson, that doesn't really move the needle. Then they paid Pitts.
15:14And they also brought in Kevin Stefanski, which we know that his offense runs through the X and the Y, right?
15:21If you don't believe that, Michael Wilson from the Cardinals has a clip this year where he straight up says, Drew Petsing
15:27runs his offense through the X and the Y.
15:30That's what they do in Cleveland. For all those years.
15:33Mentioned Amari Cooper by name. Mentioned the tight ends.
15:36And he's literally talking about Kevin Stefanski, which is where Petsing came from.
15:40So, like, this scheme, the Falcons did what you should do when you're committed to the players.
15:45Go get the guy who runs the scheme that works for your personnel.
15:49So, I am excited about Kyle Pitts. Also, you know, he's got the speed to rip off big chunk plays, which is
15:55half the battle at a position where tight end targets are at a premium.
16:00Yeah. And I was like, you know, like, I like Pitts.
16:03But, you know, like, last season, a lot of his points came without Drake London.
16:08But, you know, as the season, summer continues to go on.
16:11I'm like, man, Pitts just looks better and better to me.
16:14And one thing I think of that I think is important, you know, when it does get called out that Kyle Pitts
16:21scored so many points without Drake London. It's like, well, not all tight ends can do that, and Pitts can.
16:27And that is actually a feather in his cap, in my opinion, that, like, there aren't that many tight ends that if
16:34the number one receiver went down, they would actually just assume a larger target share in the offense.
16:39And so I've been drafting a lot of Pitts recently.
16:42Yeah, and that's the thing is that if this were a situation where they had two high-end wide receivers and Pitts did
16:49all his damage when one of them got hurt, that to me is when I really, you know, raised the red flags, right?
16:56Like, that's where we say this guy's on the outside looking in, and his only path is via an injury to one of the two guys.
17:04In this case, there isn't the second guy. And there's a new coach coming in, and there's a path to run pure as a top two guy.
17:12And one of the reasons that we always say top two is that that Rob Gronkowski season I mentioned earlier, that came
17:19in a year where Gronk was the second target on his team.
17:22In fact, Wes Walker got 173 targets that year.
17:25Historically speaking, you do have plenty of times where two guys on the same team do get a ton of targets, but
17:32it's very rare to have three guys on the same team get over 100 targets without an injury to one of the players.
17:39Last year, the Cowboys were the only team to do it.
17:42And it was because C.J. Lamb got hurt or they wouldn't have done it.
17:46And you go back through history, and there's a lot of that.
17:50There's not really a lot of cases. You know, it happens roughly 3.5% of the time, which is essentially the odds of
17:57you hitting a single number on a roulette table.
17:59And if you're not a gambler, go ask your uncle whether that's a good bet.
18:04You know what I mean? I mean, it's not a smart bet.
18:08So when you sit back and say, this guy will be the third target on the team, definitely.
18:13You probably shouldn't be drafting that guy as your primary tight end.
18:17Yeah, it's a great way to look at it.
18:20He's already in the position we want him to be in, and there's actually this potential for an even greater season if something happens.
18:27Exactly. You want to be at that – it's like handcuff pluses in running back versus just a pure handcuff, where it's
18:33like, is the guy above the line where I can start him, and then he has additional contingent upside?
18:39Versus a guy who is just like the pure backup with no upside, which is what some of these other guys are looking at.
18:47Whereas, as you pointed out with Pitts, he already is startable, and he could go nuclear with an injury to Drake London.
18:53Okay. Question for you. You're in a redraft league right now.
18:57You find yourself being the last person in your league to take a tight end.
19:01Who are you targeting in that case? So with that group you just mentioned, that is the last group of players that
19:08I will take as my only tight end, as my standalone tight end.
19:12So the way I operate is if I get one of those guys ending with Pitts and Laporta and that crew, I'm
19:18not going to take a second one. Right? Like I've already allocated enough resources to tight end.
19:24I've made my bet. I'm going to use my bench on wide receivers and running backs.
19:28If I get to this point in the draft that you're mentioning, where I've already drafted – I've probably started my draft
19:35with eight or nine running backs and wide receivers.
19:38In most cases, I'll take two. You know? One misconception with tight end, with drafting two tight ends that I see all
19:45the time, is that you are not drafting two tight ends to rotate them.
19:49Your tight end two is not your backup tight end.
19:52That is the wrong way to think about it.
19:55You are taking two shots at upside. Or you're basically finding some path to upside.
19:59What I like to do is if I draft a safe but boring tight end, right?
20:04Like a Travis Kelsey or Mark Andrews, I'm going to use a bench spot on a high risk, high reward tight end,
20:11trying to catch my breakout tight end. I don't want to be playing matchups with Kelsey in some breakout.
20:16I just want to find my breakout and move on from Kelsey or trade the guy who breaks out.
20:22And with Travis Kelsey, one of the big reasons that I operate that way with him is that this year, he has
20:29the first bye week of any tight end. So not only is he kind of a boring lower upside guy, but his bye week is week five.
20:37You're going to need another tight end. You're going to need to find one within the first month of the season whether you like it or not.
20:45So you might as well, if you wait and take Kelsey outside pick 100, take a second one.
20:51So I don't mind taking whatever kind of value I get from those guys that I think could be a top two target on their team naturally.
20:59Mark Andrews and Travis Kelsey actually fit that bill, you know, the best.
21:03The one that I want to ask your opinion on, why it?
21:07Because this is a divisive player. I've gone to the loony bin on this guy a number of times.
21:12Where do you stand on Dalton Kincaid this year, man?
21:15Because that one is one where I look at it and I'm like, he is so much different than every other tight end, is he not?
21:23With the like partial snap share. He could be a top two target on the team, but he could be a two, three target a week guy.
21:32Where do you live with Kincaid, man? Yeah. Kincaid is so tough.
21:35And I've mostly been out for his career. And I've probably been the most in this year because I think he's finally
21:42like fallen down enough ADP over the years where I can see myself like, yeah, I think this is a tight end.
21:49You compare the way you're saying like this could be that high upside bet at tight end because I mean the per route efficiency that he's had.
21:57It's just incredible, right? It's just like, can he play more than 40% of the snaps?
22:02Like, can we please have that? And he can get there.
22:05And obviously the injuries have been a big problem.
22:08You're hoping that he gets past that. But the bills still love, you know, to rotate these tight ends.
22:13I have trouble getting to it everywhere. I think in redraft where you can move on if everything looks like it's not going to work.
22:21Like it just looks like that role is not changing and it's going to be unreliable.
22:26You can move on. Best ball where you're stuck with him, a little bit shakier on that.
22:31But I do see it in the type of scenario you're talking about where I'm taking like an upside bet and maybe a little safer bet.
22:39But I can see it there. And especially in redraft where you can cut bait if you have to.
22:45Right. Exactly. It's like for me, if I'm going to take two risky tight ends and not play it safe, like I'm
22:51willing to go Kincaid and then another tight end later because he does have a floor, right?
22:57Like he does go out there and catch a couple passes every week.
23:01But you're right. The spreadsheets show like every yards per route run metric, every graph he's in the top right corner just
23:07because he's so efficient when he's out there. He just can't stay out there.
23:11So like there is a world where they just say, hey, you know what?
23:16It's time. 70% snapshot for this player. And then he just takes off.
23:20And boy, would Khalil Shakir going away be a would be huge for that.
23:24But like for now, I have a hard time just giving him just penciling him in to be somebody he hasn't been so far.
23:31So he falls into that same group for me where it's like, OK, I'm going to get myself somebody I can start
23:38early on and then I'm going to look for upside.
23:41So those are the few guys I'm looking at there.
23:44Isaiah Likely as well falls into that category for me.
23:47I know a lot of people are penciling him in as like massive upside.
23:51One thing I have to caution people on with Likely is that he is slow.
23:56Like when everyone says basketball player and wiggle, yes, he does have wiggle.
24:00He is a basketball player. This guy ran a 4.8 plus 40.
24:03Go to player profile and look it up. You can see it's like 39th percentile speed.
24:08Guys like that need to be peppered with targets to have upside.
24:12I've only seen two guys running a 4.8 or slower finish top five in PPR in 15 years.
24:17It was Keith Miller in 2012 and then it was Jake Ferguson last year.
24:22And we've already talked about how Jake Ferguson got there and how it's kind of a fugazi play.
24:27So with Likely, he could easily be a top two target on the team.
24:31He could get 125 targets. He'd get 150 targets, which is what Zach Ertz needed to get to have his one 1,000-yard season.
24:38But that's what you're betting on. Likely is not a guy that like Pitts or Kraft can do it, can make big things happen on like 80 targets.
24:47You need 100 targets for a guy that slow.
24:50But with the injury to neighbors and not knowing who the wide receiver two is, he fits the mold as well as
24:56like, okay, I'll wait and I'll take this guy as my starter and then I'll put some upside on the bench.
25:03I've been off likely almost completely. I think he's worse Dalton Kincaid.
25:06People don't want to realize that he is not going to be playing unless it's an 11 personnel.
25:12Theo Johnson and Chris Manhurts are going to be the inline tight ends.
25:16His routes are limited. His snaps are limited because of it.
25:19They just showed us in their preseason game that that's exactly what they're going to do.
25:24How much passing is this team doing and how many targets are actually available for any of these other players?
25:30Like it's really hard to see the path to me with likely.
25:34And people, the one other player that is super underrated in this aspect in terms of like taking snaps away is that
25:40a lot of these like big slot move tight ends, you put them in motion or you haven't come across and do a wham block.
25:48They also brought Patrick Ricard over. So like some of those hybrid fullback snaps that tight ends get, those are going to go to Patrick Ricard.
25:56And when Patrick Ricard comes in the game, right, you're going to have to take out a fringe pass catcher because you
26:03don't take out the running back, right? And you're probably not going to take out neighbors.
26:07So somebody in that realm, whether it's likely or whatever other wide receivers, those guys come out.
26:13You're going to have a lot of – he might not be out there for a ton of the jumbo personnel.
26:19So it does scare me, man, because you need this guy to be like – I hate to say it, prime Zach Ertz.
26:26Zach Ertz is faster than Isaiah Leaglin. That is documented.
26:29It sounds crazy, but he's much faster. Zach Ertz is going to 4-7-4, which is slow.
26:34That is like a full tenth of a second faster than Isaiah Leaglin.
26:38So it's just – you have to be very careful with guys like that because you're asking yourself who can do more
26:44with less, and speed is a huge factor directly correlated to 40-plus yard plays.
26:49You know, there's a reason that George Kittle has multiple 70-plus yard plays where a guy like Jake Ferguson has one 40-yard play over his entire career.
26:57Right. All right. Later round tight ends, are there any in particular that you think not only can finish top 12, but
27:04maybe really have a real shot of really mattering at the tight end position?
27:08Yeah, and this is why you have to be plugged into the tight end landscape because one month ago we would be saying totally different names, right?
27:16Like Chigakonkwo was on the radar, but now with the Stephon Diggs signing, that hurts, man.
27:21Dallas Goddard was completely off my radar. Now all this Makai Lemon might not be ready stuff, and now he's kind of floating in.
27:28One guy that checks a lot of boxes all of a sudden is Juwan Johnson because, I mean, this is more of
27:35a factoid than it is a meaningful stat, but one player has been on all three of the last best ball winning teams.
27:42Yeah. You know who? Yep, Juwan Johnson. Juwan Johnson, right?
27:45Like – Locke, right? But he's got a 90 – yeah, you just pick him in every league and you're all set, right?
27:52He does have 95th percentile speed. He's a converted wide receiver.
27:55And with Jordan Tyson missing the first two months potentially here, that is so much football.
28:00That is like – the season is four months.
28:03You know what I mean? It's like that is like a huge amount of football.
28:07So for Juwan Johnson now, definitely as part of a yin and yang strategy, I don't mind because I can start him the first few weeks.
28:15That's the definition of my yin tight end, right?
28:18And he has that kind of upside. So that's a guy who's on the radar for me.
28:23And then after that, there's basically two guys who I think could run pure, which means don't need an injury to have
28:30big time upside, which would be Kenyon Sadiq, who – there's no floor on this player, right?
28:35He has not been practicing. He's got the hernia.
28:38Like literally might not be ready to play week one.
28:41They're telling us he will be, but we don't know.
28:44But like what if he's just the second best pass catcher on the team after Garrett Wilson, right?
28:49Like that could just flat out be the case.
28:52They drafted him at 16 overall. And then the other – big shout out to our buddies over there at the HH
28:59house who always love to talk trash to me about this player, but tell me why Greg Dulcich cannot be a top
29:05two target, if not lead the Dolphins in targets in Bobby Sloick's scheme, right?
29:10Like that is a big slot scheme where he's – Johnnie Smith and Darren Waller both ran 70% of their routes from
29:16a wide receiver spot in this scheme. They're going to – obviously keeping Bobby Sloick, who was the past game coordinator, means
29:23they're going to keep that type of offense. Like that player, the floor, terrible.
29:27But I don't – when I'm drafting my second tight end, I don't think about floor for one second, and neither should you.
29:34So those are the two guys that can do it on a pure basis.
29:39And then you get into best ball where it's like, okay, this guy isn't the top two target of this team, but maybe there's contingent upside.
29:46If somebody gets hurt, maybe they just make some splash plays.
29:50And then that's the next group of like even shakier guys that we can consider.
29:54If you want to get in – if you want to go deep here, man.
29:59Oh, we'll get there. Now, Jawan Johnson was – I thought it was interesting before because last year, Kellen Moore basically said
30:06like, I know you're not blocking tight end, but I'm just going to play you all the snaps.
30:11It's like we need the help, right? And that was great.
30:14So it makes – even with Jordan Tyson coming on the team this year, you're like, well, at least he has like this contingent upside.
30:22Like not quite the level like we were talking about with Pitts, like where he's already in it and he just has that extra level.
30:30Jawan Johnson was one of those guys before who was on the outside, but it exists.
30:34Now it's like, well, if Jordan Tyson's out again, well, he's back to being that guy who's playing every snap and it could be there.
30:42So that is interesting. And then, of course, I mean, you already know that I'm in on Dulcich.
30:47Over 2.5 yards per outrun last year as well.
30:50Like he shows that he can be a fishier.
30:53Top five. Top five yards per outrun. People – that's that.
30:56People hate that. I guarantee you there are people out there that pulled up the top five tight ends in yards per
31:03outrun that got a meaningful number of targets. So at least like – no matter how you sort it, you can't even
31:10get him out of there unless you crank it all the way up to 35 targets, right?
31:15I'm sure there are people out there that were going to tweet that and then saw Dulcich's name in there and said, oh, I'm not tweeting.
31:23Yeah, and I mean it's just wide open, right?
31:25So like why can't he? You know? Why can't he, man?
31:29And in redraft, like if it comes out like, oh, Caleb Douglas is actually really good.
31:34Malik Washington's doing all the short intermediate stuff and like there just aren't targets for Dulcich.
31:39Okay, move on. Like you spent nothing on him.
31:41So whatever. Exactly. We're looking for – that's what I love for a guy for my last round pick when I'm doing
31:48a yin and yang tight end type thing is somebody we're going to get answers on right away because that bench spot is valuable.
31:55We need – like with my last round pick, I love taking a player where I'm going to get the answers week one.
32:02Are they playing a big number of snaps? Are they running routes?
32:06Because, you know, when you use that last pick on like a handcuff or a rookie and they just sit on your
32:13bench and you don't know – you don't have anybody to drop and it's stopping you from making waiver claims, those roster cloggers, I hate them.
32:20Dulcich is the perfect example. We're going to know week one – this is a veteran.
32:25This is not a rookie. We're going to know week one if he's part of the plan or not.
32:31And if he's not, we drop him for the next hot upside guy.
32:35But what if he goes out and runs, you know, 80% of the routes, 70% from a wide receiver spot and he gets six targets?
32:43Then we actually got the guy. But because the scheme is there, the opportunity is there, the question is talent.
32:49I've seen less talented players do awesome. Dalton Schultz, Robert Tunyon, Gary Barnage, Logan Thomas walked into 100-plus targets and finished tight end three one year.
32:57Like we can make this happen, man. Johnnie Smith came out of nowhere.
33:01Johnnie Smith, he was left for dead in this offense and he came and finished top five, right?
33:06It happens all the time. Yeah. All right. We're going to go a little bit deeper now.
33:11Say you're in a league like one of these 18 or 20-round basketball leagues where you're always drafting at least two tight
33:18ends or a seasonal redraft league in which it's really deep and you're drafting at least two.
33:23Who else out there past these players we've already talked about do you think could be relevant, I'd say, in fantasy football in 2026?
33:30Yeah. I'd say the last safe guy. Like let's say you're, just because these people get no love, let's say you do
33:37play in like a 16-team league or a two tight end league.
33:41Right? I ran into this problem in a two tight end league this year where I was like, damn, I need somebody to start.
33:48Like to be my tight end one that I think has a floor.
33:52I don't see what Jake Ferguson does that Dalton Schultz can't do.
33:56And he sure is a boring player. There's no doubt about it.
33:59But statistically over the last two years, the difference between Jake Ferguson and Dalton Schultz is like a couple touchdowns.
34:05Dalton Schultz has more yards. Many receptions have more yards.
34:08So like a guy like Dalton Schultz, like if you're in a league like that and you just need something to be
34:15safe, like let's say you fall asleep in your best ball draft and you need to draft three tight ends in the
34:22last few rounds, Schultz is safe and then you can go for upside plays, right?
34:26Like contingent upside plays or regular upside plays. The number one contingent upside play we have to talk about is Terrence Ferguson, right?
34:33Because they're not all built the same, the contingent upside plays.
34:37A guy like Elijah Higgins, which is a name that you need to know for redraft, he only has upside if a very specific player gets hurt.
34:45He only has upside if Trey McBride gets hurt.
34:48Just like Tank Bigsby only has upside if Saquon Barkley gets hurt.
34:51A guy like Terrence Ferguson has upside if either of Pukin Nakua or Devontae Adams gets hurt or if Pukin Nakua gets suspended for a couple games.
34:59You know, like if either one of those guys goes down, this guy basically plays wide receiver.
35:05He has an 18 yard ADOT, which literally ruins my spreadsheets.
35:08I had to, you're a spreadsheet guy too, right?
35:11I don't like, you're like me. I don't like fudging the numbers.
35:14I did change the color code system for my ADOT this year because the 18 yard ADOT was making him green and
35:21everybody else was just some weird shade of orange.
35:24And it's like, looking at it, it posed no, like it had to be changed.
35:28You know what I mean? So I just like made it, you know what I did is I made him blue and
35:35then took him out of it and took him out.
35:38And I was like, this guy is special. The blue guy is special.
35:42Everybody else is part of the real, the color code.
35:45But this guy, when, when Devontae Adams got hurt last year in week 16, this guy came out and ran 37 routes,
35:52which tied with Colby Parkinson for second behind only Pukin Nakua.
35:55And, but, but Ferguson got to run his from a wide receiver spot.
35:59Any Rams fan knows that this guy had multiple, multiple close call plays that were either drops by him, really good plays
36:06by defender or bad throws by Matthew Stafford, which apparently there were a couple last year.
36:10I didn't remember them until I looked at the tape, but maybe not completely perfect, but this guy could have literally could
36:17have scored eight touchdowns last year, nine touchdowns. And so he has best ball upside on a standalone basis with big contingent upside.
36:24Uh, the problem is for redraft, you might be stretching that, uh, standalone basis then.
36:29That's my one warning on Terrence Ferguson is that we, I can't come out and say that he has standalone, uh, utility at this stage.
36:36Right. And I think that's fair to say that we don't know if we can start him on a standalone basis, but
36:43we do know that he might have standalone upside with injury upside, which for me, why am I going to spend on
36:50Jake Ferguson when the other Ferguson is much cheaper and he's a better athlete and he's in an equally good offense.
36:56And he's got the same, uh, in my opinion, contingency for upside.
37:00He needs a wide receiver to get hurt. So Terrence Ferguson, for sure.
37:04Um, I mean, and I can go, I can go to one name that is very deep here.
37:09If you want it, we got to do, right?
37:12We got it. One last name. It, it, it might be a player that I was going to ask you about.
37:18I want to hear what, who it is from you though.
37:22Well, ask me about your player. Cause then we can get two more players and potentially, I'll quickly say, I like Schultz
37:28as, as like a really, really late safe pick because to be cliche, he's been that safety blanket for CJ Stroud.
37:35And I've been drafting a lot of Terrence Ferguson.
37:37I love, he has shown something that other tight ends don't do.
37:41He just has to do the things that he's already shown he can do in college.
37:46Right. And then he can become this like hyper level tight end that like doesn't really exist.
37:51Like it's just a different role in the offense.
37:54It could be really, really great for fancy. So I'll add that on.
37:58It could be special. It's like literally the, there is a role, man.
38:02I mean, you hate to say it, but like Brock Bowers is a wide receiver that is so good.
38:07He's a tight end. That's so good that they just better than wide receivers.
38:12That's what you need. Terrence Ferguson to be better than, and that's the problem.
38:16Terrence Ferguson on another team would be very exciting on this team.
38:20It just so happens that he's playing next to arguably the best wide receiver in the league and another wide receiver.
38:26That's probably going to go in the whole thing.
38:29So it's kind of a tough, you know, those hurdles are difficult.
38:32But, you know, he could be the third best pass catcher on the team flat out.
38:37But go on. I want to hear. I mean, I want to hear this guy.
38:42Yeah. The last time. We'll see if this was the one you were going to bring up.
38:47Darren Waller signs with the Panthers. Do we care?
38:50So we do care. We do care. I just did a best ball draft where I waited until my last picks and then picked four tight ends.
38:58Yeah. Those tight ends were Terrence Ferguson, Greg Dulcich, Darren Waller, who, when you talk about insurmountable objects, Ted Rowe McMillan is a star already.
39:05He had a thousand yards as a rookie. Jalen Coker.
39:08Boy, do I. I like him. I think the memes are fun.
39:12I think that he could be a good player.
39:15Insurmountable object, though. I don't think so, man. I don't think so.
39:19And now Chris Brazel's done for the year. Xavier Leggett is already a boss, in my opinion.
39:24Never learned how to not jump every time the ball comes his way, which is wild to watch.
39:29Like, you know, in terms of contingent upside, one guy away.
39:32And we know who Waller is. This guy is a force in the red zone.
39:37He can line up all over the field. You can line up at split end, which with this team, you can potentially
39:44put him out wide and let the other guys play slot flanker.
39:47Like, you have to pay attention to that, especially in best ball, where it's like touchdown is everything.
39:53So he was tight end three on that team.
39:56And then tight end four from way downtown, Elijah Arroyo is the last, the deepest guy I'm willing to say.
40:02I should have seen this one coming. You should have seen it coming.
40:06Here's the thing. AJ Barner has a profile that has a virtual 0% hit rate of finishing top five or six in fantasy.
40:13The number of, so when you break down every piece of it, there are 70 players that got at least 15 targets last year, right?
40:20A lot, AJ Barner's pass block rate of 86.
40:23I'm sorry. His, his, his inline tight end route rate of 86% was the third worst behind only Drew Sample and Mo Alleycox.
40:30Inline tight end. His pass block rate of 16.8%.
40:33I have only seen one tight end finished top five in fantasy with a pass block rate that high.
40:38That was Julius Thomas back in the year when Peyton Manning threw 55 touchdown passes, right?
40:43The only other two tight ends I've seen over 15% to finish top five are George Kittle and Rob Gronkowski.
40:49And George Kittle has a 98th percentile speed, right?
40:52This guy, AJ Barner is basically his best comparable players are Durham, Smythe and Foster Moreau.
40:57And the reason I mentioned those guys is that in this exact scheme, Durham, Smythe, Foster Moreau, Charlie Warner, Luke Farrell, Julian Hill.
41:04They do play an inline role, an inline role the way that like Noah Gray does.
41:09And that's a big role for fantasy. And I think AJ Barner has that role, but I think there's a possibility that
41:15Elijah Arroyo cars out a big slot role. He got to up to, he got up to 60% route participation last year.
41:22If Elijah Arroyo plays even a 40% route snap share the way Dalton Kincaid does, AJ Barner has no upside.
41:28AJ Barner is the biggest sell for me. If anyone will buy him from you in all honesty.
41:34But what if Arroyo does get that big slot role and he kind of carves his way into a Dalton Kincaid, Harold
41:40Fannin, Colston Loveland role alongside Dawson Knox, Cole Komet, David Njoku.
41:44More established guys in my opinion than AJ Barner even is.
41:47But like, what if they do that? Who is the second pass catcher on that team after JSN?
41:53Rashid Shahid is a field stretcher. Cooper Cup is like a part-time coach, whatever he's doing over there.
41:58It's like Torrey Horton, who is basically just an understudy to Shahid now.
42:02They're kind of setting this up to be an offense that does use two tight ends and Arroyo's role would be better for fantasy.
42:09And he could have a path to be in the top two target on this team.
42:14So for me, that's the deepest player where I can definitely the deepest player where I can look at it and say there's pure upside here.
42:22There's upside where this guy runs pure and doesn't need an injury to be a top target on the team.
42:28But what if JSN gets hurt and the entire house of cards falls down, right?
42:33175 targets available on this team. I mean, then it doesn't even – then who knows what could happen.
42:38So like a guy like Elijah Arroyo, again, might not even play.
42:42This guy might be big nothing. But he's like the – I can't even – and I obviously try every day to
42:49find anybody out there that has a case to be a top two target on their team without somebody getting hurt.
42:55That's the deepest I can scroll to find pure upside with no injury.
42:59So Elijah Arroyo, I mean, it's there. Yeah, I love the deep cuts here, Coop.
43:04Before we get out of here, remind everybody where to find you.
43:07Find all your work. Buy me on the Twitter machine at CoopAFiasco on Reddit.
43:12Coop, there it is. I post everything that I have for free.
43:15Goes up on my Twitter, on the Reddit. And then behind the paywall, I'll give you guys a little hint here.
43:22Do not buy the Fantasy Larm Draft Guide. That's going to sound crazy.
43:26But if you use promo code COOP right now, it gives you the first month 25% off of All Pro.
43:32That's our all-in membership. The 25% off makes that first month the same price as the draft guide.
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43:40You get all my rankings. You get literally every sport we do.
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43:46But you also get all the betting. You also get all the DFS.
43:50And you get the membership for the first month, which would include my weekly rankings for week one and week two.
43:57So, again, don't clip just the part where I said don't buy the Fantasy Larm Draft Guide, which would be very funny.
44:03I know you're already going to send it to our group chat.
44:07Don't buy the Fantasy Larm Draft Guide. But use promo code COOP on the All Pro and you get the draft guide
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44:17Love it. On this side of things, you can follow me on Twitter at YIP underscore FF.
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