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1:02Sites and sounds and edges found. You will now get down with the Underground.
1:07Post it up on the OTC Fantasy YouTube channel and on your favorite audio platforms.
1:12I am Theon Greyjoy, Lord of the Iron Islands, hosting and Westeros coasting.
1:16I do not know what your algorithm is like, but my shit is full of Star Wars and Lord of the Rings memes all the time.
1:25So trust me, there's a lane. There's a lane.
1:28There's fantasy football and Lord of the Rings is like almost concentric circles.
1:32Sorry you guys are so cool. I thought you were getting laid, but apparently not.
1:37Nerd. Nerd alert. Nerd alert. Nerd alert. Oh my God.
1:40I f***ing hate you guys. I'm actually questioning you guys.
1:44I think like you need to hand in your nerd bona fides, right?
1:48You can't sit here and f***ing talk about stats and then not be into Lord of the Rings.
1:54F*** off. You know where I get my nerd ticket from, Joe?
1:58Harry Potter and Game of Thrones. So you can f***ing beat it, all right?
2:03It's almost like Game of Thrones doesn't even hit nearly as hard without the Lord of the Rings background, right?
2:09Where it's a clear battle of good and evil in Lord of the Rings.
2:14Game of Thrones flipped the genre on its head by making it all gray.
2:19I think what you're trying to say here is Lord of the Rings walked so that Game of Thrones could...
2:25Sights and sounds and edges found. You will now get down with The Underground.
2:30Posted up on the OTC Fantasy YouTube channel and on your favorite audio platforms, Dynasty Underground is back in your life.
2:37I am Trav, aka Lord of the Iron Islands, hosting and Westeros-Koston for you this evening.
2:42And with me, of course, are the usual suspects of the Baratheon clan, the wise man, Jax Falcone.
2:48How are you today, Lord? Yeah, man. I'm not sure what made it onto that cold open, but I'm pretty sure I know the topics, player.
2:57Yeah. Yeah. We had a good time before the show today is what Jax is saying.
3:02And on the other side of me is one Joe Quavius Kuvatakis, we decided, of the Northern Reed family.
3:09Maybe like a Howland Reed type. Joe, how are you this evening?
3:13I'm doing great. You know, I believe the Reeds pray to the old gods, the, you know, not the seven.
3:19But whatever gods they were praying to in that prayer circle for Ashton Janty, I am grateful.
3:25Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The seer. Maybe he saw into the future.
3:29And maybe it's a successful season for your Raiders and Ashton Janty, Joe.
3:33I love this. Of course. I love this. This is really good.
3:37It's good. Yeah. We started off hot today for sure.
3:40Make sure you're subscribed to that channel. Go check us out at otcffb.com as well.
3:45The website is doing great. People have seemed to love it.
3:49And there is no more efficient way to manage your dynasty and your redraft teams because it is the season.
3:56So go check it out there. You'll find our 2026 rankings there, our dynasty rankings there, some articles, and then all of
4:03the tools that help you reimagine your fantasy football experience.
4:06So love seeing everybody checking that out over there.
4:09And we have got an interesting show, fellas. We're going to talk about some of this news.
4:15Joe, you alluded to the Janty injury. There's a bunch of other stuff that we got to talk about.
4:21And then we're going to talk, as the show that talks about being ready to be wrong, gentlemen, we're going to talk
4:29about things that we're afraid to be wrong about.
4:32So while we're ready to be wrong, it doesn't mean that we can't be a little bit scared to be wrong because we do like to be right.
4:41We're a little bit shook, you know what I'm saying?
4:44So that's going to be a fun little segment brought to you by Joe, who actually brought that one up.
4:51So thank you for adding that to the sheet.
4:54But fellas, we're going to start with some of this news.
4:58And there's a new trend that's kind of sweeping the NFL.
5:01And I don't think that everybody's caught on to it, boys.
5:05We haven't seen too many instances of it yet.
5:08And I bet there's cases that we haven't yet seen come up and we will see over the next few years, potentially.
5:15And Dynasty Underground is the only place where you can find an edge in fantasy football like this.
5:21The new trend, boys. NFL owners are getting very lonely.
5:25We had your boy Rob Craft trying to get a Robin Tug.
5:29Yep. What do you mean trying? Just an old dude getting him off fucking Rezobin Tuzug, you know what I'm saying?
5:36He would get him all the time. He was very successful at getting those.
5:40Yes, he was. And now we have one Jed York of the 49ers making a trip down from the substation to a place called East Palestine, Ohio.
5:49Gentlemen. Wow. Involved in a little sting operation I read where he went on one of these, you know, adult websites and
5:57he tried to solicit himself a $160 good time.
6:00And there was actually... $140. Just to be clear, it was $140.
6:04I saw conflicting. I saw that the cops seized $160 from him.
6:08So, I was going with the higher amount just because, you know...
6:12Maybe that was going to be the tip. Maybe that was going to be the tip.
6:17Yeah. Well, apparently he wasn't... Nothing but the tip.
6:20Apparently the same thing I read that he didn't want to pay the extra $20 to go unprotected.
6:26So, I'm not sure if he's tipping that extra $20, fellas.
6:30But... Yeah. Not really any fantasy football implications here.
6:33And there are plenty of terrible places that we can go with that.
6:37But we thought that that was kind of a wild story this week.
6:41Taking over all of the fantasy kind of injuries that we're seeing, to be honest with you.
6:47What did you guys think of yet another NFL owner thinking from within his hands?
6:52Joe, this is your lane. Joe. This is your lane.
6:55You're kind of the vibes and narrative guy, Joe.
6:58Get it. I actually disagree that there are no fantasy implications.
7:02Oh, okay. Spin that web, sir. Please. I'm not sure.
7:05I would just say, overall, it's not good, right?
7:08When half the players on the Niners are hurt because of this substation that he refuses to move their practice facility.
7:15I mean, to his credit, he's not spending a lot of money.
7:19Maybe he is saving up to move their practice facility away from the substation.
7:24But it's just not the way storybook endings begin, right?
7:27Imagine the 49ers winning a Super Bowl and Jed York going up there and taking the Lombardi trophy from Roger Goodell and saying anything.
7:35Anything at all. This guy has to go into hiding.
7:39He needs, like, not to mention, like, whatever, personal conduct policy.
7:42I don't know. I don't know what rules come into play here.
7:46But anyways, this guy needs to go away for the good of the team, for the good of his family.
7:53Just disappear for a very long time, right? I think what it shows you, though, is that.
7:59Send him north of the wall. Yes. Some of you guys who think right now, God, if only I had some money I'd get laid.
8:07Still, you wouldn't. Apparently, you still need to spend $140 on an East Palestine, Ohio hooker.
8:12Trailer park. Trailer park hooker. Yeah. Just the reality.
8:15I mean, I did also read that him and his wife filed for divorce about 15 months ago.
8:21So, I mean, any... It's just a lonely dude who's trying to get a little love slack that we could cut him, boys, or none of that.
8:30Yep. No, I cut him a ton of slack.
8:33I mean, what's... I don't have a problem with what he's doing, but I'm just saying, like, you know.
8:40Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, I mean, obviously, it's the dumbest possible thing you can do.
8:45Look, I'm going to say something. I've never got a prostitute in my life.
8:49But I also am the same guy who would say I have nothing against it.
8:54I have nothing against it. So, I don't know.
8:57I don't really give a shit. But, at the same time, if I were the owner of this fucking franchise, I'd be very sure not to do that.
9:07Just feel like... Just feel like... Do it a classy way, right?
9:11Like, you could afford a really nice one. And come out to dinner with you.
9:16And that. Yes. Spend a few thousand bucks and just do it the right way.
9:21Nobody will judge you. You ask around other rich guys.
9:24I mean, but that's how they got in trouble on this other thing here.
9:29You know what I mean? So, just saying. This is just...
9:32Tripwires all over the place. He did end up spending a couple thousand.
9:37Because it was $5,000 bail and like $1,160 fine that he had to pay.
9:41So, probably $1,000 fine. And they seized the $160 that he took with him.
9:46So, come on, Jed. Come on, Jed. Expensive mistake.
9:49Just, you know, pay up is all I'm saying.
9:52Pay up. You got the money. Stimulate the economy.
9:55You can afford to be more discreet than that, for sure.
9:59Okay, let's dive into... Trickle down economics my ass.
10:02Yeah, you're right. So, I'm going to get us into some real fantasy implication stuff.
10:07Because however much I love that web you spun, Joe.
10:10I doubt it has any real impact on the Niners team this year.
10:14We got to go to... You want to talk Gentry real quick?
10:18I actually do want to talk about... Wait, wait, real quick.
10:22Okay. Go ahead. For some impact. I mean, Brandon Ayuk probably having one of the best days ever.
10:28Oh, he was rejoicing on all of that, too.
10:31The memes that were on social media about him were incredible.
10:35It was like a picture of the prostitute and it was him with a wig on.
10:40I would just like to say nothing Brandon Ayuk did was as despicable as Jed York's behavior.
10:46Absolutely nothing. All the weird videos, all the cars, every stupid thing he did online pales in comparison to a trailer park hooker in East Palestine.
10:54I'm sorry. Yes, that's true. That is true. Brandon Ayuk, pay that man.
10:59Yes. If I could bite a rhyme from the undrafted, is trailer park hooker in East Palestine a good episode title or what?
11:06Yeah, absolutely. Okay, boys. Lots of fun and games happening here.
11:10This one, actually, Jax, we are going to get to Gentry.
11:14I want to get this one out of the way, too, because we've already kind of evaluated it, but it was just
11:21more some wild statements that happened this week and then some subsequent boneheaded organizational moves as well.
11:27And that would be around one Deshaun Watson and this press conference that he had where he was talking about how the fans were booing him.
11:35He thinks it's only personal and not about on the field stuff.
11:39And there's been much talk about how it's definitely also because of the on field stuff, which we're seeing videos of that playing out in practice, guys.
11:48And so I don't dispute that there is on field implications here as well.
11:53The biggest thing that I heard from his conversation, though, that I tweeted about was that he said he doesn't regret anything in his life.
12:01And we were reacting about that in the chat, boys, and thought that it's just wild how tone deaf this guy is to what's actually happening around him.
12:11And then, guys, we see that like the next day, I think the Browns name him as the starting quarterback for their team.
12:18And we expected this to happen. But I think comments about the fan base might be able to derail something like that,
12:26but clearly not for the old Brownies, Joe. So what did you think of the comments?
12:31What do you think about how long he actually has as the starter for the Cleveland Browns?
12:37And should we be getting ready for Shadir Sanders?
12:40Well, I mean, like I regret what I ate for lunch today, right?
12:44I have regrets every single day. I mean, he walked the statement back the next day.
12:49So he regretted that statement. So it's just like such a stupid bullshit thing to say.
12:55Right. I don't even know what, you know, where he was coming from.
12:59I just it's impossible to get inside a sociopath like that's head.
13:03Right. But he's clearly one of those. Probably. Allegedly.
13:06Right. Right. Yeah. All that being said, we talked about a couple weeks ago how for the Vikings, it would it only
13:13makes sense to start Kyler Murray, even if he wasn't actually winning the quarterback competition, because then they've got somewhere to turn
13:21to, which happens to be the best outcome for the franchise.
13:24I kind of think it's the same thing for the Browns.
13:28Although I think both of these trains are headed off a cliff and, you know, whatever other options they have, they're all
13:35headed in the same direction, which is like a two or three win season.
13:40And Lord knows that's probably what they want to do to just go and get the best quarterback available to them next year.
13:48So it really, in one sense, doesn't matter who they started quarterback because they're both so bad.
13:53But if there were a better way to go about it, like you wouldn't want to have to go to Deshaun Watson
14:01midseason after Shador falls on his face. When you go to Shador, it's better.
14:06But there's just like they could have banished Deshaun Watson, just told him, hey, you're paid.
14:11You're still on the team. Whatever contract situations aside, consider yourself part of the team and just stay in the fucking locker room for 17 games.
14:20And we'll just let Shador and Gabriel and Green just, you know, get their starts and not deal with you and not make our fans absolutely hate us.
14:29I think maybe that would have been the better route because they still would have won the same amount of games, which
14:36is like, again, I think three win upside. So far be it for me to judge these clearly morally upstanding citizens that are NFL owners.
14:45Jack, look, if you were paying someone $250 million, you'd want more than a than a locker room ornament out of it, too.
14:52But that's a horse of a different color. Listen, let's talk about this because we did our startup and we talked about
15:00on this program how we thought, where was he going to be drafted?
15:04Was he a value? And it turns out that I was not the highest bidder on Deshaun Watson.
15:10And I did notice something I'm sure everybody else is noticing this if you're in startups, too.
15:16But both of our startups were in two of them.
15:19We're kind of doing another one right now as well.
15:22But the the underground league in the 10th round, there was a couple of quarterbacks selected.
15:28The last three quarterbacks selected were Ty Simpson, Carson Beck and Daniel Jones.
15:32After that, there was actually three rounds of no quarterback taken.
15:36There's sort of a tier after that where then it was, you know, the likes of Tua and Geno Smith.
15:42I'm just throwing those names out. Those weren't the next two guys taken.
15:47But there's a sort of step down and definitely a huge tear break, I would say, from guys that either have a
15:54future potentially or are like locked in starters and less than 40 years old.
15:59You know what I mean? Like Geno and Aaron Rodgers and some of these guys.
16:04And, you know, so long story short is in that area, I did end up taking Michael Penix.
16:10Then it went Aaron Rodgers. Then it went Deshaun Watson.
16:13And Deshaun Watson drew a law went right there.
16:16But Deshaun Watson went ahead of Tua, Shador, and the rest of them.
16:20You know, I guess after that, there's not much.
16:23Cousins. I was able to get Shador after Deshaun.
16:26And I would have preferred Shador. Right. And so, you know, I think our dialogue on this show where I was saying,
16:34you know, Deshaun is some sort of a value was because he was so far down.
16:39I think it was like 19th round ADP or something.
16:42I'm like, boy, at some point or another, he's got to move up.
16:47Well, 16th round ahead of Shador. I think that's about as high as I could imagine taking him because of all the things that you mentioned.
16:55And we still think he might actually suck, which is also kind of crazy because he should still just kind of be good at this.
17:04But I don't think he's going to be good at it somehow or another.
17:08It's just it's crazy. But anyway, I thought I'd mention that I was not the high bidder.
17:14No, that's good. You actually had some serious quarterback bets with three in a row.
17:19You went Penix, Shador, and J.J. McCarthy back to back just to maybe one of them hits kind of thing.
17:26So I kind of like that strategy filling out the depth chart there.
17:30I think with Shador, if you're a bag holder, like you're hoping that that, you know, that entry into the starting quarterback
17:37job comes maybe sooner rather than later. And you hope that he has a couple of games where he plays decent or
17:45hopefully Watson was so bad that Shador makes it look like a serviceable offense that you can flip Shador Sanders.
17:51Right, boys? Now, like, what do we think stealing that we could get for Shador is in that situation?
17:58Do you think a second could be had after maybe a couple of serviceable games?
18:03Yeah. I mean, I was going to say when you said stealing, I was thinking quarterback 24 or something like that.
18:10You know, it was kind of like, and then when you ask about that, like if he's quarterback 24, 23 and points
18:17per game, he's just sort of, you know, hey, he's out there doing some stuff.
18:22You know, it's not great. It's not bad. It's, you know, two touchdowns here and there, you know, and 200 and something yard, 200 is yards a game.
18:31Right. Not a bunch of picks and just sort of steady as she goes.
18:36But if that's what happens, I would think that you could certainly get a way future first, like a 29 or 28 potentially or a 27 second plus.
18:45So, yeah, I think that's about the value of a starter who's young, who you never know if he can grow into a little bit something more.
18:54But, yeah, any any starter in the top 24 is worth something, Amy.
18:59Yeah. If he if he wins some games and takes them out of contention for like a top five pick or what
19:06have you, then you can probably get, I would say, a second for him.
19:11I think the you know, I think the jury is in on Shador.
19:15I think, you know, he was in EPA per play was like the second worst quarterback last season.
19:21It was bad. And obviously the weapons got better.
19:24Hopefully Monken makes the offense better and maybe he's a little bit better as a result.
19:29He looked pretty good in the last preseason game.
19:32So it's not out of the question. It's early enough for him to turn his career around.
19:38But I think like with success, the high end is probably a second round pick.
19:43I can't imagine anybody paying more than that. And I sure as hell wouldn't.
19:48I sold all my door shares last year as soon as he was playing.
19:52Basically, it's just like, all right, get off this investment right now.
19:56Nice. Yeah. I just wanted to check in on that kind of peak value you could be looking for on the positive shooter outcome.
20:04You know what I'm saying? Okay. Okay. Let's go to Joe's Las Vegas Raiders because we had a bit of a scare this week, boys, with Ashton Gentry.
20:14First, it was called a high ankle sprain. Then it was backtracked to say maybe it was a little bit lower.
20:21Don't know if mid ankle sprain is a thing, but maybe we just meet in the middle.
20:26I'm not really sure. But the latest report that I read said that it might be a little bit lower and that
20:34he still has a chance to play in week one.
20:37I'm not necessarily saying this is going to fluctuate Gentry's value, boys, because I think we think he is in that upper echelon of running backs.
20:46But the swing that we have seen on Mike Washington over the last couple of days is crazy in the dynasty streets.
20:53I saw an underdog post that said over like a 24-hour period there when that news was super murky, they had somebody
21:00take Mike Washington as early as 303. And Ashton Gentry in one draft went as late as 1111.
21:06And that is absolutely free money to get Gentry there if we think that he could be starting week one in this season.
21:14How can 11 people pass on Gentry 10 times?
21:17That's crazy. Insane. That's insane. And I actually saw a post just before the show and I retweeted it with my own
21:24take on it where somebody said that they have been buying Mike Washington for seconds wherever they can because of Clint Kubiak's previous two-back system.
21:33I just don't see Mike Washington getting up to that second round value myself.
21:37So I retweeted saying that I think if I'm getting that second for Mike Washington, I'm taking it all day.
21:44What do you guys think about the steam on Mike Washington?
21:48Because he does look like a pretty solid backup.
21:51But I think a 27 second is for me a guy who I'm predicting to be a starter for my roster within the next couple of years.
22:00And I don't think we can afford that to Mike Washington yet, Joe.
22:04Well, this could basically parlay into our topic for tonight, which is what are you afraid you're wrong about?
22:10Right. And I think we were all pretty full fade on Mike Washington because he didn't have the college production to back this athleticism.
22:18And, you know, at certain positions like running back, I think you're willing to be more forgiving for super athletic running backs who lacked production.
22:27But we've actually gotten burned by that so many times that, you know, we have over time learned the lesson to actually not bank on those guys.
22:36And you just need to see more than what he showed in college after transferring with a college teammate who was in
22:43this NFL draft who produced better than him while they were in school at the same time together.
22:49Right. So it was all kind of ridiculous in the first place.
22:53And then he just goes out and he actually performs in preseason.
22:57He's got those two big long runs for touchdowns.
23:00And he got all of his believers just like circling the wagons.
23:04Right. He's super excited. So for news of the Janty injury happened, I mean, it's almost like a price correction.
23:11It's like. In the stock market, right, there are charts where they you can look at the chart and you can say
23:18this thing is going to go up. We just need a trigger.
23:22Right. We need a trigger. The demand is there and people are just waiting for a sign to buy into this stock.
23:29Right. And it could be some news item. Right.
23:32And that's exactly what happened here. Whereas Janty got hurt.
23:36It was a scare. He's out for some indefinite amount of time, which might not be any time at all.
23:42But the price corrected to the place where people really wanted it to be anyways.
23:47So I think that the market's really high on him and I think you can get a second.
23:53And I think I would take that. But parlaying into the next point or the next segment, I think I'm afraid that I'm wrong.
24:01And we may have overlooked a good player who is going to be in something more of a platoon than what we
24:09were envisioning, you know, a week ago. Well, I will give you my thought of the week.
24:14So, you know, I almost said it at the top, but here's where I'm at right now.
24:20So there's a thing that you're basically talking about, which is the stock market analogy is perfect because there's an event and we have to react.
24:29Right. But the reaction is how much do we react?
24:32And so I was thinking about this, like, you know, you don't there's two there's two schools without one is take lock.
24:39Right. Oh, no. Mike, Mike Washington sucks. I'm not taking him out.
24:43Like, that's dumb. Right. So you want to be Bayesian.
24:47You want to think, OK, I want to move with the market.
24:51I'm ready to be wrong. I want to be ahead of it.
24:55I want to be right first. Right. All these things that we say.
24:59But then you go, wait a minute. Is Deshaun Stribling the wide receiver one in this class?
25:05Wait, is that just stupid? You know what I mean?
25:08Like, at some point, maybe not. Right. I'm not saying it is or isn't.
25:13I'm not here to say specifically Mike Washington is or isn't worth a second.
25:17Deshaun Stribling is or isn't the wide receiver one in this class.
25:21I'm not here to say that. What I am here to say is that is the thinking that has got to be.
25:29This is where you can take action and gain profit.
25:32Right. By making bets against the overcorrection of marketplace.
25:35When you think it's the Puka Nakua thing. When I felt like Puka was real, I was making bets below market.
25:4227. Well, not 27. Future second round picks. You know, whatever that year was.
25:47You know, the next year's 22nd, 22nd, second round picks.
25:50Excuse me for Puka where that was like, you know, people like, oh, you're crazy.
25:55That kid, you know, is not worth that before the games ever happened.
25:59And subsequently it looked like a good bet, but it could have been a bad bet.
26:05And that's kind of the point here is that there's so much at this time of year that you can take advantage of.
26:12And I think there's a lot of profit to be had.
26:16But everybody's a little bit afraid to be like, I ended up selling Deshaun Stribbling for a 27 second.
26:22I'm an idiot. Look, he's good now. See what I'm saying?
26:26Yep. So there's that fear. Exactly. Just for let's throw some numbers on this.
26:31Right. Let's try and go apples to apples as much as we can.
26:35But Kubiak's offense last year in Seattle, who wanted to run the ball and, you know, head coach want to run the ball.
26:43Maybe more than Kubiak will when he's his own head coach, they had 507 rushing attempts and also they had an awesome
26:50defense and were in position because they were leading so much of the season that they're in position to run the ball.
26:57But the split was basically Ken Walker had 221 rush attempts and Zach Charbonnet had 184 rush attempts.
27:03Right. Right. And then the that, you know, basically gets you to 400 and then the rest was split very sparingly amongst Halani, Valis Jones, Jakardia, right?
27:12Cam Akers, Miles Gassi. Right. But just those guys all had less than a dozen except for Halani, who had like 22 attempts.
27:20Right. So my point is, if the Raiders are going to run the ball 500 times this season, Janty's not getting 500 attempts.
27:28Right. But in a extreme circumstance, I think he'd be getting something like, you know, man, 300 even seems high.
27:34300 seems high. So and the Raiders don't have another running back of consequence on that team.
27:40So there's a world where Washington, if he's any good and doesn't just poop the bed game one or early in the season and lose the team's trust.
27:49You know, he could get 180 carries easily, at which point, I don't know, like maybe not a 27 second, but a second round pick for him.
27:58It's not that far fetched. So we didn't like him as a prospect, but he's actually in a good situation.
28:05Sure, he's got Janty ahead of him. And I think that's what kept the market off of him to this point.
28:12But the second Janty went down, we saw what his value became.
28:16Right. We had a five hour glimpse into what the market wants.
28:20And I think that the market is just like chomping at the bit to, you know, fire away on the super athletic guy.
28:28So if he's getting attempts and maybe catching some passes, then, you know, it's not out of the question.
28:34Like, is Zach Charbonnet worth the second round pick?
28:37Healthy Zach Charbonnet? I think so. Probably. My counter, my counter would be that Mike Washington doesn't have necessarily the pedigree.
28:44I'm not saying he's not as talented as Charbonnet because he could be.
28:48Doesn't have the production profile at all. Like the pedigree.
28:52And he doesn't have the hold on that second job to where they'll really want to be jamming him in on carries
28:59like they seem to do in Seattle. And I think the other counter is kind of what you said, Joe, is where
29:06that the Raiders aren't going to be playing from ahead quite as much as the Seahawks.
29:12Right. So if they're playing from behind in passing situations, I don't see them taking Gentile off the field.
29:18Right. And so I think there's kind of a flip side there where game script could state that Gentile just needs to
29:25stay on the field because his skill set is for that.
29:29So the lesson here, the lesson here, as always, is roster running backs that are deep in the roster, deep in the depth chart, not wide receivers.
29:38Because if CeeDee Lamb got hurt in the same way, we wouldn't be rushing out for Ryan Flournoy for the same sort of upside.
29:46But Mike Washington, if, you know, if Gentile gets hurt, actually does have legit upside.
29:51Yeah. And this will happen all season to whomever gets hurt.
29:55You know, I mean, we don't like Samajay Pirine or Taj Brooks, but if something happened to Chase Brown, everybody would be
30:02scrambling for one of those backs and figuring out which one it is.
30:06Are they going to sign somebody? What's going to happen?
30:10Are they going to trade for somebody? I mean, it's a it's a it's a race.
30:15But if Jamar Chase gets hurt, nobody's Chase, nobody's making it's just not going to be anybody.
30:21Nobody's going to be Jamar Chase, whereas someone could get 20 carries a game behind Chase Brown, who's some off the street running back.
30:29It literally happens all the time. And so it is structural build and just trade all of your back end wide receivers that are worthless for running backs.
30:38Just remember to do that. Absolutely. But I do want to point that this is sort of a unique circumstance because we
30:45got the sneak peek at what the market thinks of this guy.
30:49Right. We know for a fact there are Washington truthers out there.
30:53Yes, sir. That are going to be willing to pay seconds, you know, maybe even a first would to get confirmation that
31:01Jamar is down because like that's how much they buy into the athleticism over the lack of production in college.
31:07And so Damien Pierce fetched first round. Yeah. Yeah.
31:10If you missed your opportunity to sell in that five hour window and I don't blame you, it was just a lovely Sunday afternoon here in NorCal.
31:19Like you might have missed your chance. But now you know that when and if Janty does go down, like you can
31:27go fetch a pretty hefty price for Mike Washington.
31:30You might be able to do it now. But anyways, my point is, you know, we got a sneak peek.
31:36So, you know what the upside in value is and be ready to pull the trigger if and when that does happen.
31:44Okay. So I'm going to roll off this one into our last news item before we get into our main topic with
31:51a couple of trades that you guys would love.
31:54Somebody in a 10 team super flex half tight end premium.
31:58Mike Washington for Gunnar Helm in a 27 third.
32:01Joe, that's the trade that's a little bit up your alley.
32:04Check this one out. In a 10 team league.
32:07I don't know. I don't know. Washington. Yeah. Yeah.
32:10It's just the players are fun. This one. Mike, Mike Washington for Jonathan Brooks in a 27 third in a PPR.
32:17Brooks. It's an incredible deal. Great deals. Yeah. 27 seconds are happening straight up.
32:2228 first and 28 third is on here just yesterday.
32:25So, yeah, there's some there's some shit happening out there.
32:29So if you're at that one, if you're a believer.
32:32Yeah. The 28 first was a janty owner in win now mode who thought that they just lost their star running back and panicked.
32:40Right. I would be willing to bet money that that's what that or or a Mike Washington believer who was like, now's the time.
32:48Let me pay full price. Right. Crazy. Right. Okay.
32:51This last one might have a little bit of meat on it as well, boys, because there's a lot of a lot
32:58of impacts all around for two teams that made a trade just yesterday.
33:03You guys. And this was a wide receiver needy trading for a wide receiver that needed a new home.
33:09The Houston Texans made a trade for Kayshaun Boutte.
33:12So Kayshaun Boutte has seemingly not even fallen out of favor with the New England Patriots because all reports were glowing about him.
33:20He's just kind of fallen out of their ability to give him volume with the additions of AJ Brown and Romeo Dubs.
33:27So insert Kayshaun Boutte. Kayshaun Boutte. Talk about him and the Texans wide receivers first, and then we'll get into kind of the Patriots side of it.
33:36Maybe they didn't like Xavier, whatever his name is, as much as we thought.
33:41Yeah. There you go. I mean, all I know is that they paid less for booty than Jed York did.
33:47Right. It was a backup safety. My. Did you see that somewhere?
33:51Did you just pull that one out of your noggin?
33:55I just pulled it. I just pulled it. Bravo.
33:58Bravo, sir. But anyways, it was like a backup safety and a seventh round pick.
34:03That's real cheap for a dude that had a pretty good season.
34:07I mean, you know, X receivers should cost more than that.
34:10Um, so, uh, so I think it's pretty interesting and I actually really like it for Nico Collins because now booty can
34:18be the sacrificial X and they can move Nico Collins all over the formation.
34:22So this is sort of a, um, the, the sleeper move here is like Nico Collins' value actually skyrocketed for the 2026 season.
34:30That's my takeaway. Uh, it is bad news for Noel.
34:33Um, maybe that's just not how they saw their offense.
34:37Maybe they wanted Higgins and Collins to be interchangeable and to have like this big slot or big Z or whatever, but it's probably bad news for Noel.
34:46It's definitely, you know, Dell. I think he's just not ready yet from everything I've read and seen from even last week's episode.
34:54It seems to be pretty bearish on, um, Dell.
34:57So, um, I don't know. I think I'm still not super interested in booty as a player.
35:02I'm going to be plugging into my lineup. Sure.
35:05In some deep dynasty leagues, he's going to be flex worthy, but on this offense, it just seems like a move that freed up Nico Collins.
35:14And I got way more excited about him. Yeah.
35:17I think if you're Keishon Boutte ownership is in best ball, you felt a little bit better about it today than you did yesterday.
35:25Sure. But if it's not a best ball league, even though it moves the needle, it doesn't move it into the green.
35:32We talk about all the time. Like, I don't know.
35:36We'd look at it when we draft on our site, OTCFFB, there's a thing called PAR, which is points above replacement.
35:43He doesn't get to the green. You know, his, his, his line does not move past, uh, you know, a replacement level, uh, wide receiver.
35:51So therefore, unless it's a super deep league and even then I doubt it.
35:56Um, so yeah, that's, that's exactly right. He's just a guy, but you know, Hey, things, things could get a little weird
36:03there and he could, uh, the, the, the range of outcomes is possible that he matters.
36:08Yeah. Although likely that he does. It's better now than it was with the log jam in new England.
36:15And I'm looking at my 2026 rankings boys. And I just did this kind of on the fly.
36:21Um, Keishon Boutte definitely doesn't come up to near where I had Jaden Higgins.
36:25I was very, very bullish on Higgins for the fact that I thought, I thought he would be moving into the slot.
36:33And interchanging with Nico Collins a lot more. I think Keishon Boutte is a lot more locked into that outside role.
36:40Right. And one thing with CJ Stroud, I did a little bit of study after his second year and his deep passing
36:47has like gone way down from his rookie season.
36:50And so that's not a good thing for Boutte's upside.
36:53For sure. I got Boutte in like the mid mid fifties, um, as opposed to like the late thirties where I had Higgins before.
37:01So interesting to see how they work him in with so little time before week one, two, those are always interesting trades to me as well.
37:10So fun stuff there for the Texans. What about for the Patriots?
37:14Is there really a ton of impact? Like I kind of, there's part of me that was already kind of planning for this.
37:22I think we're just cemented in Dobbs and AJ Brown as the two wide, any increased interest in Demario Douglas or Kyle Williams though, fellas.
37:30I think what's really interesting is if they, I mean, if they do a Kyle Williams Dobbs on the outside and make
37:37AJ Brown sort of like a big slot target hog that gets super interesting.
37:42I don't think they're going to do that on a full-time basis, but I think that that's going to be an interesting
37:49formation that they could use a little bit more.
37:52I don't think Dobbs is going to come off the field all that much.
37:57And so I don't think it's like makes Kyle Williams playable despite his, you know, long touchdown in the last preseason game.
38:04But Demario Douglas, he's been around long enough to know what he is and is not a fantasy impact producer.
38:11Kyle Williams, there's still a chance. It's just, again, it's kind of the same thing.
38:16It's like, does this enable more for AJ Brown?
38:19Because there's the speed element on the field and Kyle Williams.
38:23And we move Brown to more of a slot flanker role.
38:26Yeah, probably. I mean, it's still hierarchy. You know, it's AJ Brown, probably Hunter Henry, Dobbs, neck and neck.
38:33And honestly, Ramondre and Travion are the next after that.
38:36And then some sort of wide receiver in terms of volume.
38:40I think Kyle Williams actually will have some big plays during the season.
38:44We're like, dude, I think Kyle Williams with a touch.
38:47You know, he'll have a number of nice plays.
38:50I don't think he's a bad football player. I just think in the hierarchy, he's not going to earn enough targets to matter.
38:58Right. And I was just looking at some of the slot and wide rates because my first thought was that Dobbs doesn't necessarily project as an X.
39:07But he played almost 82% out wide for the Packers last season.
39:11Kyle Williams was almost 90% out wide. So they do have some guys who can occupy that to allow, like you said,
39:18Joe, AJ Brown to be that queen chess piece that we always talk about.
39:23So interesting because when you look at AJB and Romeo Dobbs being the two wide receivers, it's not the most like there's
39:30not a lot of speed on that offense. You know what I mean?
39:35Like AJ Brown can beat guys, but he's not like the speed threat he was early in his career.
39:41So interesting to see how they work that and how that plays to maybe the tight ends with a little bit of Eli Raritan action.
39:49Jax, what do you think about that? I'm excited.
39:52Yeah. Hello. Okay, boys, we're going to... Let's just say that Eli Raritan will not be showing up on this week's episode
40:00of Things I'm Afraid to Be Wrong About. True that.
40:03That's good. That's good. And that's a nice segue because we are going to talk about what we're afraid to be wrong about right after this.
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40:39And we are back on Dynasty Underground. Thank you for tuning in.
40:43Make sure you subscribe to that channel and check us out at otcffb.com.
40:47And we're getting into the meat of this episode, boys.
40:51We've had some fun thus far. And now we're going to talk about things we are afraid to be wrong about.
40:58So we talk about all the time on this show that we...
41:02This is about being wrong? Yeah. Or are you out?
41:05Okay, yeah. See you later, dude. Yeah, you can sit this one out for sure.
41:10Yeah. I didn't think... You're going to spectate? What am I doing here?
41:14I'm never wrong. You're going to spectate for me and Joe, or...?
41:18Yeah, I'll officiate. Okay. Sweet. Sweet. Yeah. No, that's great.
41:22As the show that always preaches that we are ready to be wrong, like I said off the top, that doesn't mean
41:29that we don't like to be right. So there are things when we are taking stances that we obviously are a little bit worried about.
41:37Maybe some tea leaves further down the road. Tell us some things that we didn't know before.
41:43And that's what we're going to get into tonight, Joe.
41:46So since this was your topic, I'm going to let you go with the first thing that you are afraid that we're wrong about.
41:54And we'll just kind of let it ride from there, boys.
41:58Why don't we start with the defending champs in Seattle?
42:01I think we were skeptical. All of us were kind of skeptical on Jadarian Price.
42:07And I was questioning in the pre-draft process whether or not he was actually going to be a first round pick.
42:14He ended up being a first round pick. I still had like a light fade on him.
42:19I took him in a couple of spots where it just absolutely made sense and it was the obvious pick to take.
42:27But I didn't like actively pursue him. And maybe this is the hard knocks effect, right?
42:32Where they're getting all excited about him. They're talking him up as a pass catcher.
42:37They're not playing him in preseason games. And so I'm just worried that Price is going to be way better than I
42:44thought he was in the pre-draft process. In my film evaluation, I couldn't help but notice that his running style was very
42:52similar to a favorite of mine last season, who was Caleb Johnson, who I was just dead wrong about.
42:58Right. And so I think like maybe I learned the wrong lesson in my evaluation of Caleb Johnson and where I went
43:05wrong there and misattributed to Jadarian Price and that he actually might be good.
43:10And there's just, you know, a lot of opportunity here in Seattle to run the ball.
43:15And I might just be missing out on an explosive running back and didn't invest heavily enough in him.
43:22That's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one.
43:25I think that I can join you there definitely with some thoughts of maybe not being right about Jadarian.
43:31I mean, I think I faded a lot of stuff.
43:34So, I mean, I've got some more stuff in this draft class.
43:38I'm definitely afraid I might be wrong about, which I'll touch on.
43:42But in terms of Jadarian Price, yeah, the opportunity is great.
43:46I guess I don't love the Zach Charbonnet shadow looming for year one playoff run.
43:51Like even if he kind of gets you there a little bit, you're like, like he really needs to hit the ground
43:58running, so to speak, and really kind of, you know, do it early.
44:03Otherwise, like if there's, you know, he does seem to have the backfield by himself.
44:08Although Emmanuel Wilson, you know, and George Helani are there.
44:11They're not anything worth, you know, getting too worried about if you feel like Jadarian Price is any kind of special player.
44:18And so for all those reasons, I think, yeah, it's more likely than not that he'll have some pretty big days early on.
44:26Their team is good, right? Like he could just have like, you know, 88 yards and two touchdowns and you'll be like, hmm, that's pretty good.
44:35You know, like that scores you a ton of fantasy.
44:38Like, you know what I mean? It's a 20 point day, 22 point day, whatever it is, right?
44:44So I think there's going to be days where like, yeah, maybe it's just, maybe it's just a good, you know, situation.
44:51But then what happens when Zach Charbonnet, if and when Zach Charbonnet comes back?
44:56Does that just kind of like become Ken Walker of last year?
45:00And then that's kind of still the ceiling, at least right now, right?
45:04Yeah. I mean, Charbonnet had 12 touchdowns last season, right?
45:08Walker had five during the regular season. Everybody remembers the epic playoff run and the Super Bowl MVP.
45:14But during the regular season, it wasn't that fun to own Ken Walker.
45:18He barely crossed the thousand yard threshold and scored five touchdowns.
45:22So like it was debatable. And we already talked about the carry discrepancy.
45:26It was 221 to 184. Charbonnet had 730 yards on the ground.
45:30I don't have the passing numbers in front of me, but you know, the 12 to five touchdown disparity made it like
45:37it wasn't plus EV to go Walker over Charbonnet on any week.
45:41And could that happen again? So yes, there's that looming.
45:45There's the lack of clarity because he's a rookie and George Helani and, you know, Wilson.
45:50So I don't know. Huh? All right, Mrs. I do love me some George Helani.
45:55Just more good. I mean, he's pretty good. He's not a great rusher, but you know, I think he did okay when we saw him last season.
46:04He's pretty good. So anyways, there's plenty of reason for doubt about price, including his production profile.
46:10I don't think I regret the process because you just can't be investing that much in a player that doesn't have the college profile at all.
46:18And we understand why he didn't have it, but that doesn't replace having it.
46:23Right. But the NFL, on the other hand, told us, hey, this is a first round talent.
46:29Barely. That's good. Yeah. Barely. So that's where, that's where I'm just, I've been, there's been trepidation about this throughout the process.
46:36And anyway, we'll leave it at that. I think if he was pick 34, we would still be really, really excited about him.
46:44So I think the barely thing isn't too huge for me, especially being that it's a running back.
46:50Right. I think they also, if they really like him, they get a fifth year option on him if they want him to.
46:57Right. So there is some merit to sticking in that first round and getting him.
47:02But I will say, cause Joe, at the top, you said we all were skeptical and I was not, I was a big fan of Jadarian Price.
47:11And I was bullish on him because there is explanations for things like why he didn't catch passes in college, why he
47:19didn't get all that work in college behind Jeremiah Love.
47:22And so we, we talked about all that stuff.
47:25Right. And I think like, yeah, for me, you guys are actually talking about a reverse ready to be wrong because I am so in on Jadarian Price.
47:34I have him as my running back 21 in for 2026 as his, in his rookie season.
47:40And part of me feels like that's a little bit low.
47:44So my ready to be wrong is that looming Zach Charbonnet.
47:47Right. And the hopium that I am telling myself on this boys, that is very like a 15% chance probably is that
47:55the new offensive coordinator has a bit of a different mindset, maybe than Kubiak.
47:59Sure. He's awesome success with it last year, but if Jadarian Price is humming, maybe Zach Charbonnet is a little bit more
48:07situational, probably does take some goal line stuff, but maybe he takes less between the carries because I still think that Jadarian
48:14Price can be a really good pass catcher too.
48:17So that's kind of the hopium I'm telling myself as the guy who's scared to be wrong about Jadarian Price being really, really good.
48:25So that was actually a really good example to start us off with because there's both ends of the spectrum there.
48:32What's interesting is if he had been pick 34 and just the second round pick and that pushed him from like the
48:39105, 106 range to like the 109 range, I think I would have been way more in.
48:45I don't know. It's almost weird where it's like that like difference in NFL draft capital.
48:50The first round pick is like very reassuring. But if it hit, if his price had been just slightly cheaper in rookie
48:58drafts, I think I might've gone the other way on him.
49:01Yeah. And it's interesting. That's interesting because to me, like if he went at 34 with the Seahawks, I would have been
49:09totally fine with him exactly the same because actually there's like, I don't have the numbers, but some of those late round
49:16running backs, late, late first round running backs don't hit.
49:19And a lot of those top of the second round guys hit.
49:23So it's interesting. But yeah, I mean, Charbonnet is a fucking guy and he's going to have something to say when he's healthy.
49:31So that scares me. I'm going to mention this a little later as part of my answer, but you can go after this trap.
49:39But I will say this. I've been trying to redo my 2026 rookie rankings.
49:44You know what I mean? Just go through and like redo them.
49:48I know. Let me just, let me just tell you, there are some big movers up and down.
49:54And, you know, part of that exercise was me thinking, should I overreact?
49:58How much am I overreacting to move someone? Am I just being afraid to be wrong and move someone?
50:04Or am I actually being, you know, level headed, not whatever, right?
50:08All that. So my question to you, and you guys can just answer one word, please.
50:14Please. Ready? Jadarian Price in Dynasty or Casey Concepcion.
50:17Yo, you know what? Well, I mean, well, no.
50:20All right. Wow. He's fucking short circuiting over there.
50:23I just, I got him. No, you didn't. You didn't.
50:26Because here's what I was going to say. I've been thinking about this exact same thing.
50:31I've been thinking about this exact same thing because we have an upcoming rookie draft based on what we're doing where we're actually still drafting picks.
50:40Right. As I've been thinking about this guy, same thing.
50:43I think Concepcion is probably somewhere around 103, 104 right now.
50:47And Price is right after him at like 104.
50:50Like it's right there. Right. So these guys both moved up to like the 103, 104 is the way I think I see it.
50:58And Price or 105. Price better serves a win now team, right?
51:02Like if you have the third pick and you're ready to be a winner, Price will serve you better than a Casey Concepcion.
51:10So there is, that is a crazy exercise, Jax.
51:13I'm going to try that out myself. And you think of like the Carson backs, the Dijon scribblings.
51:19So did you, did you just, did you just pass over?
51:22I want to know who you passed over to get to him versus Concepcion, right?
51:27So, I mean, I think Tyson, we're moving Price ahead of him just on the injury.
51:33Yes. Being validated, right? Yes. Have you moved him ahead of Carnell Tate?
51:37I am so close right there. We'll see Carnell Tate and Casey Concepcion back to back in my rankings overall.
51:44So like for me, obviously that's something I'm thinking about doing.
51:47And the question would be, I guess if I moved Carnell Tate behind Concepcion, I guess I'd move him behind Jadarian Price
51:55too, which is kind of feeling weird. So yeah, such a good question.
51:59It's feeling weird. Such a good question. And like, that's why I short circuited because it's like, whoa, we moved Concepcion way up already, I'm sure.
52:08So now it's like, is he a top three pick, right?
52:11Imagine, imagine you could go back to three months ago, Jax, and tell him that that was the case.
52:18You would say that you're fucking crazy. Maybe not.
52:21Maybe not. I'll just keep, I'll keep the conversation going for you, Trav.
52:25And I'll, I'll give mine. Maybe not my turn, but this one will dovetail perfectly.
52:30I'm starting to get a little afraid to be wrong about Omar Cooper being good, right?
52:35Because right now the value's lost. So now you have no value.
52:39So unfortunately, one of the bets about Omar Cooper going into the rookie drafts was, you know, he got drafted to New York.
52:47They need wide receivers. He'll probably play in the slot right off the bat.
52:52That's pretty good. He's got a noodle arm, 40 year old Geno Smith, who probably doesn't want to throw the ball and push the ball downfield.
53:00He'll love these easy button throws to Omar Cooper.
53:03Maybe it won't be prolific, but it'll be enough to sort of tether him to, you know, hopium and opportunity and value going forward.
53:11Even if he's not the player you want him to be, if he ends up being the player you want to be
53:19great, that's a bonus and a cherry on top.
53:22Unfortunately, as of right now, we're not getting tethered to value.
53:25We're losing value. And I didn't really see that coming with Omar Cooper.
53:30So I can't wait for football to start fast enough for Omar Cooper.
53:34And hopefully he can get on the field and make some wild plays.
53:38You know, Omar Cooper feels a little bit like, you know, Luther burden in that they're, you know, yak guys who can
53:46get some easy button stuff and some stuff manufactured for them.
53:49But if you can't get on the field, as we saw, even with Luther burden, it is difficult to make big plays from the sidelines.
53:58Yeah, 100%. We talked about it a little bit last week too.
54:02I just mentioned, cause I saw that clip where he was running a route, you know, how they run over those kinds
54:09of pads and then they make their cut and then the balls on them or whatever.
54:14It was an easy button drill and he dropped the easy button pass.
54:19And so that was just like a one moment.
54:22And I absolutely overreacted on that. Um, but it's something that we have to start reacting to, because if we see him
54:29starting to get buried on this depth chart, especially he's definitely behind Adonai Mitchell.
54:34Um, and he's fighting with Isaiah Williams for that third spot.
54:37So, um, the, the fall has been kind of drastic, right?
54:41Usually like it's hard to see this big of a fall to zero value, but I don't know.
54:47We still hold up, hold up, hold out. Easy for me to say a little bit of hope here on the underground, Joe.
54:55Yeah, I think it's too early. Uh, I think just selling on, and I know that's not the question, but I think
55:02like selling on Cooper right now is a gigantic mistake.
55:05And these first round picks, you got to give them the full year and you got to just, if the guys that
55:13aren't playing right away, you're banking on late season production and 100% for sure.
55:17I don't think there's any world in which the jets are going to be good this year.
55:23100% for sure. If they're not good, you better bet.
55:26They're going to give Omar Cooper tons of opportunity late in the season.
55:31And assuming he doesn't fall flat on his face.
55:34If he just produces that like a baseline competency, he will hold enough value to, you know, recapture what feels like it's been lost.
55:42This is classic don't overreact to preseason on a rookie wide receiver on a bad team whose situation is going to get drastically better a year from now.
55:51Probably. So we're doing this wacko draft right now, you and I, because we're crazy.
55:56And we got this thing where we're doing a startup and we're doing a rookie draft after this, which I don't know, this was Keegan's idea.
56:05So we got to just chop him up to be in the crazy person.
56:09But at the end of the day, in that thing, I'm wherever I am.
56:14And the 206 was the pick. And I'm like, 206.
56:17And then I was like, what's the 206? Right.
56:20The question was, what even is the 206? Yeah.
56:23And then I got a really bad feeling that, you know how I've had Omar Cooper fall to me a bunch.
56:30I was like, what? Omar Cooper. So I took the 206.
56:34And what if he's the guy? I'm like, fucking can't get away from this motherfucker.
56:39You know what I mean? So, yeah. So that was the idea.
56:43It's pretty funny because just going back to our last conversation, I picked the 103.
56:48And I was thinking to myself, all right, there's like three guys.
56:52This could be, this is either Mendoza or it's Concepcion or it's maybe Price, right?
56:57Like, so that's why I had already thought about it because of this draft that we're doing forced me to do this thought experiment already.
57:05And to your point, you know, I've had a couple of pictures pass where we're in the middle of the second round
57:13in terms of pick value or just draft who's ever available in the whatever 12th or 13th round.
57:19I was like, yeah, I think I'll take, you know, whatever.
57:22Let's go Jalen Coker. Yeah. I think there is.
57:25I actually did a sort of realignment of my rankings.
57:29There is a little bit of a teardrop at 206, believe it or not.
57:33That actually kind of is. I mean, depending. It also is going to be depending upon the second round.
57:40Is that what it is? Pretty interesting to see.
57:43Right. I mean, very interesting to see where certain guys get steamed up to.
57:47Certainly one of them will be Raritan, who, of course, you know, should be gone by the 206.
57:53But my point is, you know, how it's just crazy, you know, because ready?
57:58Eli, Eli Raritan at the moment. Tight end one of the class.
58:02Right. Feels like. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I want him more than I want Stowers.
58:07Yeah, for sure. And I want him more than I want Sadiq.
58:11Definitely. Yeah. The vibes are not good on Sadiq either.
58:15And he's hurt. I mean, and that's is that crazy?
58:18Is that a hot take? Is that hot? No, it's not.
58:22People are still going to keep the value on Sadiq because they don't see what's happening to his rookie year.
58:28And, you know, whatever the athleticism. This is back to the Mike Washington conversation.
58:33Yeah, yeah. Athleticism just promises a player that has untouched potential.
58:37So, yeah, people are still probably going to value Sadiq over him.
58:41But I agree. I choose you. Can I tell you guys what I'm scared to be wrong about?
58:47Yes, please. And I just have to channel somebody here.
58:50Just give me one second. Yep. Take your time, player.
58:53Because I'm scared. Mom. Mama's scared. Mama's scared. Mama Dunze?
58:57Mama a little bit scared. Mmm. That the hit.
59:00Best not be talking about my realm. The hit on my realm might not be what Mama thought that hit was going to be.
59:08Mmm. And I'm not taking it out of the question.
59:11I just think if we're looking at, okay, so you know those bar graphs on things where it's just like a single bar.
59:19One side's red. One side's green. And the green side spills over into the red if it's like 56% or something.
59:26Right? I would just say I was very far over to the green side on Roma Dunze.
59:31There's a lot more red in my bar. If that's not the shittiest way on the planet to describe that.
59:38Like... Oh, no. That was awesome use of bar graphing.
59:41Thanks, man. Yeah. For people listening only, it's even better.
59:45Yeah. Yes. Yeah. There was no visual there that happened.
59:48Well, yeah. But, you know, like... Maybe other than the graphic that shifts or something.
59:53But the people listening, you're just going to have to use your imagination.
59:57Close your eyes during that moment. Good luck with how I describe it.
60:02If you didn't close your eyes during that one, rewind it, close your eyes, then listen again.
60:07What if there were consensual circles that got closer together?
60:11Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. But, yeah, boys. Like, there are reasons why this hit might not happen.
60:16Last year, the start of the season, we had the injury.
60:20And you can kind of see areas where he can continue to be that guy he was in the first half of last season.
60:28That foot stuff kind of scares me. He still has looked good in some of the practice and some of the preseason stuff or whatever.
60:36And so I'm still hopeful. And I'm still, you know, that's my sign.
60:41That's my sign. I've got the question. Okay. What's the question?
60:44I've got the question. The question is, what's a hit to you?
60:48And I'm going to ask it this way. Like, if he were to get 120 targets, 78 catches, 982 yards and seven touchdowns, is that a hit?
60:57No. Right? So, I mean, that's kind of what.
61:00But, I mean, yeah, okay. So, that's, like, stomachable.
61:03That's, like, stomachable, but it's fucking disappointing. I'm talking about a miss, like, we're talking 700 yards.
61:09And he isn't kind of that touchdown getter that I think he can be.
61:14You know what I mean? Which I don't think he is.
61:17And so I think I'm still going to be okay on this one.
61:22But I got to acknowledge it. What Jack's just described, by the way, would be, like, the wide receiver 25.
61:28Just to be clear. Right. It would be, if you just extrapolated or just placed last year's stats on this season.
61:35Yep. There were 19 wide receivers that had 1,000 yards.
61:39So, if you hit 982 just in today's meta with seven touchdowns, that's actually a very solid wide receiver 3.
61:45It's the upper end of wide receiver 3. That's not the worst thing in the world.
61:51That's pretty interesting because I didn't write this one down, but I am very scared that it's the opposite being a burden truther.
61:58Yes. Yeah. From before day one that, like, it could be Rome.
62:02Because if you look at last season before Rome's injury, he was one of the best wide receivers in the league.
62:09He was taking the league by storm. And we were saying, hashtag, Travis Wright, repeatedly through, you know, the first four or
62:17five weeks until that injury took place. So, with Burden's injury now in the preseason missing, you know, basically all of August,
62:24it seems like Rome is probably in position to do that again.
62:28Sands DJ Moore plus Colston Loveland. So, it's hard to figure out, right?
62:32And this has been the great debate and the great question of the Bears offense this offseason.
62:38I think the answer is probably like we landed on when we weren't doing this exercise.
62:43The answer is probably all of them to a certain extent.
62:47I don't think you're necessarily going to miss on a season-long outlook.
62:51I do think it's going to be more heavily Rome-shaded early in the season.
62:56And then, you know, your bar is going to shift a little bit towards the third bird.
63:01Yeah. My bar might become burdensome. Yeah. For Rome specifically.
63:05Yeah, but I'm actually less worried about the foot thing than I was when those comments came out.
63:11Because we've seen tons of tape on him. And he looks absolutely awesome.
63:15Not to mention, there was an interview where he said, Boy, I kind of misphrased that a little bit.
63:21And probably raised a bunch of red flags that didn't need to be raised.
63:26That probably wasn't the right characterization of what I'm going through.
63:30And he looks great. So, if this is a new normal, new normal looks pretty awesome.
63:35And Rome looks awesome. I wouldn't be overly worried about that.
63:39I'd be more worried about it from a Ben Johnson schematic standpoint, which has historically run through the power slot wide receiver.
63:46Yep. All right. Well, mom is still making dinner tonight, boys.
63:50Mom is still making dinner tonight because we're happy still.
63:53Jax, do you have one? I just, I had one.
63:56The Omar Cooper one. I'm going to say, you know, the other one would be just with Omar, would be Omar, Eli Stowers.
64:04But we're going to move off the rookies. Okay.
64:07And I would just say that I'm starting to be afraid I was wrong about, and I've said this so much on Twitter, about Parker Washington.
64:16It's weird because. I'm already jumped ship. I'm on the other side of this one already.
64:21So, keep going. Well, the bet on this thing is like that Parker Washington was only good like this for what?
64:28You know, the back half of. About 10 games.
64:31About nine games. Well, with the playoffs, yeah. It's like 10, 11 games.
64:35Yeah. Yeah. So, he had two and a half seasons before that where he wasn't that guy.
64:41And, you know, it's just, it's a hard bet to make.
64:45Look, I'm not saying he won't be improved. I'm not saying he reverts back to, you know, 1.1 yards per route run or something.
64:53But I just don't know that he's 2.50 either.
64:56You know, I think he probably just sort of mutes in there with Thomas Jr.
65:01and Jacoby Myers and Strange and the rest of it.
65:04I think it's just, even if he leads that, you know, that was my take.
65:09But the more that I hear, and that still sounds like a good way to approach this without being emotional on either side.
65:17I'm not saying he's like, not good. I'm just not ready to, like, I hear so many people like, he's the clear number one there.
65:25And that may be true. And I'm starting to fear that it might be.
65:30Me too. Well, it just seems so narrative based.
65:33Like, they love him and stuff. It's like, yeah, I know.
65:36Sure. But are we, you know? I just want to be clear that in the back part of the season, like the
65:44last, let's call it six games or something. Like, basically when Jacoby Myers showed up, I think that was like week seven or something.
65:52His yards per route run was actually like well into the threes, right?
65:56So you just quoted kind of like a full season thing, but when they actually shifted, it was in the threes.
66:03And we were in like the, like the Puka JSN range in terms of ridiculous dominance.
66:08Trav, a few weeks ago. Yeah. I think it was the Jacob Sanderson episode.
66:13You referenced wide receivers that have gone on to, you know, produce after their fourth season.
66:18Their fourth season, right? And this sounds stupid to say, but one of the names that was on the list was Antonio Brown.
66:26And I haven't, I'm just, this is a confession.
66:29It's a stupid lizard brain thing, but I have not been able to get it out of my head.
66:35It was like, is this dude Antonio Brown? Like that's ridiculous comment, ridiculous statement.
66:40I'm just saying what's going on in my subconscious.
66:43I was like that. If you could pull that list up, I think it's actually pretty fascinating because he was an unheralded sixth round pick.
66:51I believe Antonio Brown was also a sixth round pick.
66:55Like the parallels were just kind of drawing themselves.
66:58Brown obviously was able to play on the outside to the extent that Washington can't.
67:03And Brown obviously is, despite his insanity, one of the greatest wide receivers I've ever seen in my lifetime.
67:09He had a six year run that was Jerry Rice levels of dominance.
67:13So I'm not going there, but Washington had a 10 game span where he was at that level of dominance as well.
67:21So it seems like he's the guy that's not coming off the field.
67:25And I'm upset that I don't have more. I actually traded him away last season before all this started.
67:31And I'm like, I look back at that trade and I was like, oh, really regret that one.
67:37I'd much rather have Parker Washington right now. But yeah, we couldn't have known.
67:42You can't beat yourself up over stuff like that.
67:45But that's a great one, Jax. And I have already sort of like in in redraft leagues this year, I'm going to have Parker Washington.
67:53His price has gotten insane. I think I'm still going to have him.
67:58And but I haven't been able to obtain him in Dynasty because no one's selling.
68:03You want to hear something crazy about Antonio Brown?
68:06Because you made me look him up. I was like, wait, did he suck his first two years?
68:12Like you did. It wasn't great. Did he though?
68:15He had a couple. If I remember correctly, this is going off the dome in his rookie year.
68:21He was like a kick returner and he was pretty good at that.
68:25And then in year two, he started playing. And then year three, he basically became dominant.
68:30That's what I thought, too. Well, he had he had a twelve hundred yard season in year two.
68:36Oh, shit. It was that really. And he was the sixth round pick, right?
68:41But listen, the first year, 2010. 2010, I looked.
68:44He only had two hundred fifty seven yards receiving.
68:47But here's the stat, right? So out of his whatever, however many seasons he played, I just got to look at it
68:54real quick, like twelve or something like that. Out of all those seasons.
68:59That wide receiver back then, too. Right. They had so many good wide receivers.
69:03Listen, he had he had three seasons total where he was below two point zero yards per outrun.
69:09Just three. And you'd think, oh, maybe it was that first year.
69:13Nope. That first year, even he was still two point nine five yards per outrun.
69:18Wow. Even on two hundred and fifty seven yards and, you know, twenty one catches, whatever.
69:24Like, you know, he was just he was still kind of badass even in that year.
69:29And you might go, well, obviously, it must have been his final year in Tampa Bay.
69:34You know what I mean? I mean, he only had five hundred forty five yards had to have been that year.
69:41Nope. That year he was two point seven nines yards per run.
69:45So God bless Antonio Brown, like the years that he barely made.
69:49It was like one point nine twos where he had.
69:53You know, I mean, it's just he was he's incredible.
69:56I've had so many arguments with people over the years about Antonio, the greatness of Antonio Brown, where they're just like not
70:03willing to put him anywhere near where his play should have him in like the echelon of wide receivers.
70:10He's like very near the top. Yeah. He had five.
70:13He had five straight seasons, five straight seasons of thirteen hundred or more yards and ten or more touchdowns.
70:20That's nuts. I know. Yeah. Yeah. He's like it's like Jamal Charles will never get his due just for reasons unknown.
70:27Antonio Brown, we know why he won't. But oh, my God.
70:30Oh, my God. I can't say enough about the guy.
70:34So that's why I knew it was a ridiculous statement to begin with.
70:38But either way, I think Parker Washington is in the hall of dudes we thought sucked, but might be actually good for sure, dude.
70:46For sure. Good hall. Yeah. So that's that, Joe.
70:49I found it. I tweeted it out since 2006.
70:52Only four wide receivers have been drafted in rounds five through seven and had more than 12 fantasy points per game in their fourth year or later.
71:01Antonio Brown, Stefan Diggs, Julian Edelman, Jax and Tyreek Hill.
71:04Antonio Brown did that. Seven times after his fourth season.
71:08So he's amazing. Okay, boys. I got one. Puka is going to be on that list.
71:13Puka is going to be on that list. Yeah.
71:16Yeah. True that. True that. Okay. I am scared, boys.
71:19And this is one that I'm very interested in to see what you guys have to say, because we were all very,
71:27very, very staunch in our take on this guy.
71:30I'm a little bit worried. Or maybe. Maybe just kind of wishing I had a little bit more skin in the Matthew golden game.
71:38And I know that that is almost an act of blaspheme.
71:41Just that I said that on this very show.
71:44But the signs are seeming good. And I'm just thinking if there was like, what lesson would I learn if he does hit?
71:52And I'm not necessarily sure I know that yet.
71:55But I feel like it would be something by way of even if you're all the way out on a prospect, think
72:02about being in on a good situation. You know what I mean?
72:06And I don't know if that's actually the take yet.
72:10But I don't know, man. I think the hit on Matthew golden, if he does hit.
72:15And this is another question, Jax. What is a hit on Matthew golden?
72:19Great question. I think it could be really fun to have on a roster is all I'm saying.
72:25I think it could be like, you know, 20, like one of the last two Roma dunes a seasons would be a hit for Matthew golden.
72:34So disappointing. Roma dunes a is a hit for Matthew gold.
72:38I am zero shares, zero cares. And I am not worried about this one.
72:42I look, I think he's destined to be, you know, a seal.
72:46I actually think that is kind of not a ceiling, obviously.
72:50But I think that will be, you know, sort of representative of his ceiling that he'll get to seven, eight, 900 yards and maybe even double the touchdown.
72:59In some year or something, but basically going to be that type of player, you know, sacrificial X to use the term.
73:07Yeah, I think like, yeah, the season Alec Pierce just had good one.
73:11Yeah, good one. Come to mind with Matthew golden.
73:14And it was awesome, right? Like Matthew golden. There's no questioning.
73:18There's a lot of good stuff on tape, but there's just something he hasn't put all together yet.
73:24And maybe he can write Devante Adams famously didn't get it together until year three.
73:29Right. So it's very much possible not to mention just all the vacated targets in Green Bay between Dobbs, Wicks, Melton.
73:36Right. So there's tons of opportunity there and a much more consolidated wide receiver room.
73:41I just tend to think that a lot more is going to go to the crafts of the world, the reads of
73:48the world, and particularly the Watson's of the world.
73:51But Watson has not exactly been the model of health, nor has read and craft is coming off of an ACL.
73:58So he might just be the last guy standing and could have a phenomenal year and we could all have egg on our face.
74:06But he the argument against him was always he was not deserving to be a first round pick.
74:12It's kind of like the Jerry and Price thing again.
74:15Right. Where it's like it's like I don't know that you should be taking this guy in the first round.
74:22I feel better about him if he was a second round pick.
74:26It's kind of the same thing. And maybe that's just some sort of fallacy, just false expectations.
74:32And now I'm holding it against them. But he wouldn't have been very interesting to me.
74:37And our model didn't like him all that much.
74:40But he's in the 50-50 range. So it's definitely possible.
74:43And I think it's a good one. I think it's a good one.
74:48I've got one share and one care. So there's that.
74:51Okay, Joe, give us one more and then let's get the fuck out of here.
74:56Yes, sir. Oh, man. All right. This is. I've got two more, actually, if you don't mind.
75:02One more thing. No, no, no, no. Two more things.
75:05First one is. Let's circle back on this one more time.
75:09The Super Bowl is on Valentine's Day. I've already told my wife.
75:13Fuck, Joe. I didn't know that. It's on Valentine's Day.
75:16I've already told her. Dumbass. Super Bowl. I think it's going to be cool.
75:21And she says she's cool with it. And I think it was smart to let her know ahead of time.
75:27But I'm afraid that she's not going to be cool with it.
75:31Yeah. Right. Right. It's going to get thrown back in my face.
75:35Yeah. That's what. There's no. There's no way to do this.
75:39It's not my fault. It's the Super Bowl, which is.
75:42Let's be fair. A bigger holiday than Valentine's Day.
75:45Ravens versus Cowboys. Who even cares? Should we make sure we do some sort of like Super Bowl event stream or something like that?
75:53So it has to be like for the business or something, Joe.
75:57So it's like a work thing. Oh, that's a good idea.
76:01That's a good idea. We should just make it.
76:04I don't know. I think we should maybe take that week off and take our wives out and just do an early Valentine's Day.
76:12Excuse me. My wife doesn't give a fuck about Valentine's Day.
76:16I'm good. Hey, we'll just have our wives do the show in our stead.
76:20That's a good idea. And they should talk shit about us and Gorilla Dicks and what have you.
76:26Yeah, exactly. That'd be great. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT.
76:31Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast.
76:34Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects.
76:40And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real
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76:54All right. My real one. Confirm the rumors, you know.
76:58My real one. This one's good. Chargers. Our assumption is basically that Lad McConkie got nuked last year by Keenan Allen and
77:05that he's going to get back on track of his elite rookie year production and the direction he was going.
77:12And last year we are attributing it to the offensive line, the presence of Keenan Allen, the team kind of just falling apart and whittling away.
77:20But, you know, there's a part of my brain that says, hey, he actually ran a lot of routes last year and
77:28he just wasn't earning targets at a high rate.
77:31And we're not excusing it at the college level with guys like Carnell Tate.
77:35Why are we excusing it with Lad McConkie, who, by the way, was also on the field with a bunch of dope
77:43players in college and, you know, never hit a dominator, like never got a dominator rating.
77:48Right. So my concern is, are we just really, really wrong about Lad McConkie?
77:53And have we overpriced him? I think he's dope.
77:56He's got a lot of the, you know, he gave us, he validated a lot of our priors in his rookie season.
78:03Um, we liked him as a prospect and then year two happened and we're excusing away a lot of things.
78:10And is that a mistake? That's, I'm really scared because I've started, you know, I have tons of Lad McConkie and then
78:17I even bought some this off season kind of in anticipation of this awesome, fun offense, which I feel like process wise
78:24is the right play because you want to be part of wagons.
78:28And we think he's the best receiver on a wagon team.
78:32But what if he's just not as good as we think he is?
78:36And what if he's just playing second fiddle like he did his whole college career?
78:41So Jax, I'm going to kick this one to you pretty, pretty quickly, actually, because this was actually, we're kind of talking about circling back Jax.
78:50This is kind of what I was saying, kind of a draft season as the one who was maybe a little bit
78:57more skeptical on Lad was that maybe he is just like a really good role player, but not a guy who's going
79:05to command the whole pie year after year after year.
79:08And, you know, I'm actually higher now on Lad than I was then.
79:12And but honestly, my kind of poking holes wasn't just because I'm racist against whites, boys.
79:18It's because I saw some of this stuff that you're saying, Joe, is that like maybe he is just above average and
79:25had that really good season to where steaming him up near that top 12 was a little bit lofty.
79:31Jax, have you allowed this one to enter your brain?
79:35There's no fading your racism either. So don't try.
79:38I'm trying, man. Like, I'm going to get a bad rap out here.
79:42100% racist. Just not in the way that other people think racist is.
79:46He hates the whites. Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't even hate the, he's just, it's a different kind.
79:52It's Canadian. It's different. All right. Listen, is Lad McConkie just expensive Malik Washington?
79:57Whoa. Right. I never said that, bro. That is greasy.
80:00That is greasy. That one hurt, didn't it? Oh.
80:03Yeah, that's greasy. No, I mean, yeah, no, there's definitely some, there's some concern there for sure.
80:09Because here's the other thing too. If he was the guy that we thought he was, he wouldn't have gotten cucked by Keenan Allen completely.
80:17Right. Like it would have been different. So yeah, that, that last data point, last season's data point, not a good one.
80:24Now offensive line was terrible. You know, Herbert was banged up.
80:28I mean, look, nothing went very well for them, even though they made the playoffs, but like, you know, we Patriots played that team.
80:36I mean, they were just like, I was like, man, I almost felt bad for Herbert.
80:41Like it was just ugly. You know, and we didn't dominate Seattle like that.
80:46You know what I mean? Like, so it was clearly, they had some issues that they were contending with.
80:52So maybe there's a lot of things that we could throw at that.
80:57But yeah, this is a do or die season, Joe.
81:00And I have the exact same feeling. I almost put lad on my list just to give you some.
81:06There you go. So I'm with you. There's all scared.
81:10There's scared. Hold me. There's also the factor of like QJ was better than we expected as well.
81:16And if we're wrong on QJ, he could be impactful towards lad McConkie as well.
81:21So I think this Chargers, how this Chargers passing game unfolds is going to be fascinating because I'm heavy in my O'Rondé Gadsden bags.
81:29I could have put him on this list. There's so many other ways we could go, but I think we wrapped up some pretty nice ones, fellas.
81:38It was a good. I'm going to read you some names real quick before you wrap it up.
81:44One more thing. Get it. No, this is it.
81:47There's no hate whatsoever. Carry on. You ready? Deontay Johnson, Jamison Williams, Dante Pettis, Nico Collins, Elijah Moore, LaVisca Chenault, Wandel Robinson, and Xavier Worthy.
81:55Those are the guys that trail right behind lad McConkie and the wide receiver model.
82:00Just saying. I don't know. Was that, is that like some list that knocks your socks off?
82:06No, not really. Now there's some hits there, but you know, just after where he, he just barely cracks a threshold where
82:13it starts to get a little, a little fuzzy after that.
82:17So, you know, we, we shouldn't necessarily feel like this is a can't miss prospect.
82:22This isn't JSN, right? Where we were like, no, no JSN.
82:25Look, if we're wrong about JSN, then the whole world is wrong.
82:29Like, you know what I mean? We don't know what we're doing.
82:33Exactly. Something happened. Something happened. Something was wrong. You know, so that, that was why we were buying back in on JSN.
82:41Right. So, you know, it's not exactly that. Yeah.
82:44That's all I'm saying. For sure. For sure. Yeah.
82:47But I don't feel better about any of these just to be clear.
82:51I don't feel better. I know. Like I, I feel.
82:54No cry on the pillow. I feel level on Roma dunes.
82:58but that's about it. Yeah. It's, it's going to be an interesting one.
83:02Boys. All this means is that football is almost here.
83:06Like we are so close. It's going to be awesome.
83:09Make sure listeners, you are subscribed to that OTCFFB.com website, because it really will make managing your teams way more efficient.
83:16Um, and when you're subscribed, there's no limits to the amount of moves you can make, the amount of drafts, the amount of trades, all that jazz cabbage.
83:25So please go check it out. That is the best way to support us and show us love.
83:31And for Jax Falcone, for Joe Quavius, Cuba talk us.
83:35I am the on gray joy. We will see you next week.
83:39Peace. This episode is brought to you by chat GPT.
83:42Hey, it's bill Simmons from the bill Simmons podcast.
83:45Have you guys heard about chat GPT work? It's the new way to use chat GPT for bigger multi-step projects.
83:52And when you need more than just answers, give chat GPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create
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84:02Get started at chat GPT.com by selecting work mode available on plus and pro plans.