0:00Big show for you here today. Truly, this one is absolutely electric.
0:04Ray Garvin and I combine forces, reception perception meets the Trinity.
0:07Routes, success rates, alignment meets usage, historic comparisons, range of outcomes to solve rounds four to six, the wide receiver position.
0:13This is a massive area for wide receivers. Okay, great picks in this range.
0:17We're going to try to help you find which ones are the best.
0:21We talked to everybody that has a Yahoo! ADP in rounds four, five and six.
0:25Which ones have a high ceiling? Which ones have a medium ceiling?
0:29The whole deal there. Plus, we talked about the Keenan Allen, two Colts signing, Najiera signs with the Giants, all that and more coming up on today's show.
0:37Let's get into it. What's going on everyone? I'm Matt Harmon.
0:40Welcome to the Yahoo! Fantasy Forecast and it is, oh man, it's a hell of a day to talk ball.
0:46It's a big show today. Joining me to talk a little ball to solve a very important problem this year.
0:52In fantasy football drafts, it's a good problem to have.
0:55Got a great range of wide receivers to discuss today.
0:58I am jacked up for the show and joining me to talk a little ball to do all that to solve this problem.
1:04It is my good friend, my guy, Ray Garvin.
1:07Ray, what's going on, man? Matt, what's up, baby?
1:10Another day. Another day to talk ball. Chopped up with you, the good people in YouTube.
1:14We're having some fun before the show talking Dallas Cowboys.
1:17Listen, I don't want to out you, Matt. I don't want to out you.
1:21You give us a lot of slack behind the scenes before the show with our love of Dallas.
1:27But you, my friend, said you are kind of in on the Cowboys this year, too.
1:31So I want to put that out there for all the people, just in case I'm not on a show and you're kind of talking about Dallas.
1:39I just want the people to know you are feeling that Cowboys love, too, baby.
1:43And it's okay. It's okay. Yeah, I mean, I make no bones about it.
1:48I want, you know, I don't want good things to happen to producer Colin.
1:52Like his, his sadness fuels me throughout the season as I start to run out of energy, you know, and the Cowboys
1:58start to run out of wins that that brings my energy back up.
2:02But this year, man, and producer Colin's a Cowboys fan for those who are uninitiated.
2:06But this year, I'm very much in on the Dallas Cowboys.
2:09I said it on Football 3. I went on with Nate.
2:13I think they're going to have a top five offense.
2:16I picked them to win the division. Very, very into Cowboys players this year in fantasy football.
2:21And Ray, that actually perfectly transitions us into our topic today.
2:24Because like I said, we have a big one today.
2:27Because you know why the Dallas Cowboys are going to be good this year?
2:31Because they've got two excellent wide receivers. CeeDee Lamb, George Pickens.
2:34Those guys are going very high in fantasy football.
2:37But the tough problem for me, Ray, is that I haven't gotten a lot of those wide receivers in rounds one and round two.
2:44Because that's typically where I've been shopping in the running back bucket.
2:47And a big reason for that is because this year in fantasy football drafts, rounds four to six on Yahoo are particularly
2:54loaded with an excellent group of wide receivers. Round three is also very good.
2:58There's really good players in round three. You got your Chris Olaves.
3:01You got your Malik Nabors coming in there. You got Zay Flowers with the third round ADP.
3:06But Ray, we're going to talk about it in just a moment.
3:10That fourth to sixth round is excellent. But here's the thing, man.
3:13Not all those players are going to work out.
3:16Some of them are going to be busts based on expectations.
3:19So I figured that the best way to solve one of the most important mysteries in fantasy football this year, who are
3:25the right picks in this round's four to six range?
3:28We're going to get reception perception. We're going to get the Trinity.
3:32We're going to meet in the middle here and try to solve this for the people.
3:37Yeah, I think this is going to be a dope show, man, because we both love this position.
3:42We talk about it all the time. This is it's a passion of ours.
3:46Right. And I think that using a lot of the things that reception perception brings to the table, along with for me,
3:52Matt, I don't know how you were growing up and in school, but I'm a visual learner, man.
3:58Like all throughout school, I got different color highlighters and tabs.
4:01And I just it helps me understand like the numbers and all of this stuff, seeing it visually.
4:06And that's what you know, that's what Trinity is.
4:09It's usage. It's visualized. So kind of talking about usage versus, hey, what players are actually good at doing certain things.
4:15I think we're definitely going to be able to help people identify at least some some good bets to make.
4:21Now, are we going to be right on every single player?
4:24Absolutely not. But we're just trying to set the table for you.
4:27Give you the best possible ingredients to make the best meal possible.
4:31So to be able to bring these two things together today, it's going to be very applicable to everybody that plays fantasy football on our platform.
4:39Dynasty fans, everything right here in the show today with those wide receivers in that round.
4:43So excited to get into this with you, man.
4:46And today should be a good one. It should be a great day for a great show.
4:51And you know what's going to be another day for a great show?
4:55It's coming up here at the end of this month.
4:57As I keep reminding you guys, exciting news for everyone in the Buffalo area.
5:02Yeah, that's right. Yahoo Fantasy Draft Weekend presented by Versed is coming to Dick's House of Sport in the Buffalo area on
5:08Saturday, August 29th, 3 to 7 p.m. I'm going to be there.
5:12You're seeing it on the screen. Josh Norris' bright, shining face.
5:15Boone's little smirk there. They're both going to be there with me for a special live edition of the Yahoo Fantasy Forecast.
5:21We're going to break down everything you need to know before your fantasy draft.
5:25We're going to answer questions during a live Q&A.
5:28We're going to be giving away prizes throughout the day as well.
5:31So if you're ready for your draft, this is the place to be.
5:35You will get ready when you are there. Bring your league mates.
5:39Bring your friends. Come hang out with us. We are going to see you guys in Amherst, New York on August 29th at 3 p.m.
5:46So yes, like I said, big show today. No doubt about it.
5:50But we do have two pieces of news to cover in the fantasy football fallout section here.
5:54First of all, and this will be applicable to breakout wide receivers here.
5:58Keenan Allen signs a one-year deal worth up to $8.32 million with the Indianapolis Colts.
6:03That was reported, I believe, late last night. I woke up to it this morning.
6:07Keenan Allen reunites with Shane Steichen, who he was with during his time in Los Angeles with the Chargers.
6:13So Ray, Keenan Allen to the Colts. Feels like this one has been building for a minute now.
6:18Expectations for Keenan Allen. Thoughts also on how he impacts some of the other wide receivers and pass catchers on this roster.
6:24Yeah, Keenan Allen is what, 33, 34 years old right now.
6:28And he still, I mean, 122 targets last year.
6:30He still commands targets. I would defer to you on how good he looks on those routes.
6:35But the usage alone suggests that if he's on the field, he's going to earn that opportunity from a quarterback.
6:41You look at this Indianapolis Colts receiving core. Outside of Josh Downs, it's poor, right?
6:45There's not a lot there. It's Josh Downs and Tyler Warren.
6:49And a couple of days ago, I was excited.
6:51I was talking to people on X. I'm like, yes, Tyler Warren, 150 targets incoming.
6:56And then you look around. And we even had the conversation.
6:59I said, Matt, what are the chances that they slide Josh Downs to the outside in single receiver sets?
7:04And you even said, you were like, I don't know, Ray.
7:08I wouldn't be betting on him doing that. So he definitely impacts this room.
7:12He's going to impact Downs. He's going to impact a little bit of Tyler Warren.
7:16I think the biggest thing is this absolutely lets us know that Alec Pierce ain't right.
7:21Something is really up with Pierce. And when he comes back, he'll maintain his role.
7:25But when Keenan Allen's on the field, man, he still has an ability to earn targets.
7:30And I'm not going to say that he's going to go out there and be a top three receiver, a top 10 guy.
7:36And we know that. But you get what I'm saying.
7:39I'm not saying that he's an all-world player at this stage of his career.
7:43But he's going to earn opportunity. And it's going to impact some of the other pass catchers, in particular Josh Downs, for sure.
7:50Yeah, for sure. I think the point about Alec Pierce, though, is the biggest one.
7:55This is a guy that you just – unfortunately, where he goes right now, I know his ADP is going to continue to fall.
8:02I just – I can't click him where he's going right now.
8:05He's in really – he's just in too good of an area at the wide receiver position overall where there are so
8:12many interesting options within and around his ADP. I mean, if you look at Alec Pierce right now, again, he's not going super high.
8:19He's fallen to the eighth round, 94th overall. I mean, there are just guys like Chris Godwin, Josh Downs, who we're going to talk about, Michael Wilson.
8:26I know Quentin Johnston picked up an injury in practice today.
8:30But pretty similar archetype. He sounds like he's going to be fine, Quentin Johnston, with the injury.
8:35Stefan Diggs, Cortland Sutton, Jordan Addison. There's just too many other interesting bets that I think provide a little bit of a safer floor.
8:42And frankly, you know, maybe a similar ceiling. I think this also is going to be a bit of an issue for
8:48Alec Pierce, who was already kind of a guy that was going to run all the vertical routes in this offense.
8:54And, you know, we'll see if they just run as pure on some of those vertical passes that they did last year.
9:01Now that's like definitely going to be more of the case because Keenan Allen is not solving that vertical issue.
9:06I think Josh Downs' average depth of target will go up.
9:10I mean, he had a lower A dot last year than freaking Keenan Allen himself.
9:14I think Josh Downs' average depth of target will go up, but he's not going to be in the Alec Pierce territory,
9:21who's been one of the top air yards per target players over the last three seasons at the wide receiver position.
9:27He's going to be even more volatile, I think, boom or bust on a weekly basis now that all the other three guys are like short area players.
9:35So to me, and plus, like, is he even going to be healthy when he gets back out there?
9:40Probably not. Like, will he not be healthy until midway through the season?
9:44Potentially. So Pierce, I think the biggest fallout of this is just he's going to be a guy that is going to
9:51have to fall a lot further in ADP to get me to click on him.
9:55And unfortunately, I just I'm not sure he's going to get all the way down to like the 10th round, which is
10:01where I think you'd have to do it. You know, that's my boy.
10:05I love me some Antoine, but I just this year, man, I can't do it.
10:10Right. And we're talking. And I think that when we're having this conversation, this is best case scenario.
10:15He hasn't done anything all offseason. So you're talking about a player.
10:18And you and I had this conversation last year with Terry McLaurin.
10:22And I remember you were like, Ray, are you not concerned that McLaurin hadn't done jack crap throughout the entire offseason?
10:28He was hurt. He's in and out of camp.
10:31And I was like, oh, no, Matt, he'll be fine.
10:34He'll just hit the ground running. And that was not the case.
10:37And I'm not blaming it all on McLaurin missing practice.
10:40But this is worst case scenario for a player that we were all kind of excited to see, maybe take a little
10:46step forward, increase his role, do some different things this year.
10:50And I just have a hard time. I mean, he's got to fall significantly past his ADP right now for me to
10:56even look at his name and think about press and draft.
10:59As for Keenan Allen himself, I put him kind of in my mid-50s at the wide receiver position, sort of like a
11:06wide receiver five type of player, late, late round pick outside the top 130 guys.
11:10Because the biggest thing for him is that in the first seven weeks of the season, Ray, he ran around on 75%
11:17of the dropbacks for the Los Angeles Chargers. He cleared 75% just one more time in week eight on.
11:22He was definitely they backed off his usage a little bit.
11:25He didn't clear 50 yards receiving in any game from week eight on.
11:29Like, on the whole, he was still – excuse me, he did clear it once in a week 11 game against the Jacksonville Jaguars.
11:36He had exactly 53 yards on four catches, six targets.
11:39So he definitely slowed down, I think, as the season went on.
11:43That's to be expected. As we mentioned, he's 33, 34 years old.
11:46He's really good still because of his route running and his ability to get open in the short areas.
11:52But he's not going to impact the game down the football field.
11:55And what I think is also interesting, too, about Keenan Allen as it relates to Josh Downs, Keenan was only in the
12:02slot on 35% of his plays last year. He was mostly a Z receiver for this team, and they tried to get
12:08the explosive plays down the football field to Josh Downs.
12:11I love the edit that Jason Jung threw up here on the screen.
12:15This is my hell, by the way. I mean, if Keenan Allen, who is one of my favorite receivers of this era,
12:21like rookie year, he blocks Roma Dunze. Last year, he kind of blocked Ladd McConkie.
12:26It's not all Keenan's fault about the McConkie stuff, but still.
12:29And then he does it to Josh Downs this year.
12:32That's like three reception perception stars. He just – you know, like the reception perception star of old Keenan Allen blocks these three young dudes.
12:39It's going to be tough for me to forgive my guy Keenan Allen if he does this three years in a row
12:45to a young player that I really like. But, again, I think Downs is going to play more as the Z receiver
12:52in 12 personnel, but we'll kick into the slot, and Keenan will come in as the Z receiver in 11 personnel.
12:58So I did give Downs a little bit of a downgrade in my rankings, but I don't want to overcorrect and go too far on him, Ray.
13:06I still think he's a good, attractive target in kind of, you know, the late 30s, early to 40s at the wide receiver position.
13:13Maybe like the 85th to 95th, somewhere around there, overall player for me still.
13:17Well, I'm still very much aligned with the projection that you see right here from Yahoo.
13:22I've got a couple of less yards for Josh Downs, but I still have him at five touchdowns.
13:27I have his ceiling close to almost 12 points per game.
13:30So I still like Josh Downs. Josh Downs is still – I mean, he's – he just – here's what Keenan Allen is.
13:37He is one of the players that I call – I term in fantasies a gnat.
13:41He's one of those guys that's never going to take enough opportunity to, in quotes, nuke somebody.
13:46But it's just annoying. Like, go away. Get – you know, just get away.
13:51He's just a gnat in the offense. I don't have him doing a ton, but I do have him being just kind
13:57of annoying for fantasy in this room. Yeah, there's no question that, again, he does limit the upside case for a guy
14:03like Josh Downs just from, like, a target perspective.
14:06You mentioned it. He's going to get targeted in the short area, especially on third downs as he's, like, kind of a rotational player.
14:13But I still think Downs' routes and snaps are coming up this year, and he will be targeted further down the field,
14:19which those are the three biggest variables for him having a breakout season.
14:23And I think when you look at Downs, you know, you look at his reception perception charts, like, he can win down the field.
14:30He's not just a short area slot receiver. And even dating back to, like, UNC, him and Drake May, and he talked
14:37about wanting to get back to this, you know, when earlier this season he had an interview where he's like, I want
14:43to get back to being, you know, the guy that I was early on in my career, like, as a college player
14:50where I was a high volume down the field player.
14:52And that's where him and Drake May really cooked in that, like, intermediate area on contested passes.
14:57I think Downs can do it, but they need him to do it, man, because if he's not winning down the field,
15:04this is an offense that's going to feel very tight with a quarterback coming off of an Achilles tear.
15:09Like, let's not forget he's coming off of an Achilles tear with a – maybe not taking snaps under center.
15:15By the way, Jonathan Taylor, they did not play a lot of under center in the second half of the season, and
15:22his efficiency fell down along with it. So they're definitely – not having Pierce at full operation here is tough for this
15:28team because it's just he's the guy that stretches the field on the outside.
15:32I'm so glad you mentioned the straw that is supposed to stir this drink.
15:36It's still Daniel Jones we're talking about. It is still Daniel Jones coming off of an Achilles tear.
15:42I am – you know, I don't know who else – who would they deploy downfield?
15:46It's not – I don't believe it's going to be Nick Westbrook-Akene, eh?
15:50Do they run – Laquan Treadwell? Well, I mean, Matt, I mean, is it Tyler Warren, the field stretcher?
15:56I don't even know if that's what you – I truly am very curious as to what Shane Steichen's going to cook
16:02up to make this offense work with the ingredients that we have right here right now.
16:07Last piece of news here, and this one's a little bit smaller, but I still want to discuss this one even though it's very small.
16:14Najee Harris is signing with the New York Giants.
16:17Mike Gerfola reported that today. Najee's coming off a torn Achilles injury, so there's that.
16:21Najee Harris, obviously, you know, we know who Najee is.
16:24He had the eye injury last season as well before the Achilles tear.
16:28It's been a tough, you know, 12 months for Najee Harris.
16:31We are going back farther than that to the fireworks incident on 4th of July.
16:35I get that. But, Ray, I do think – and you tell me.
16:39You push back on me if you think I'm wrong.
16:42I think that if you are a Cam Scadaboo bro and you're not a little bit worried about this, I think you're
16:49kind of sticking your head in the sands a little bit because the reporting from the Giants all offseason has been that
16:55they wanted to add to their backfield. They wanted that – they were in on Kenneth Walker as a pre-agent.
17:01They wanted Jeremiah Love to fall to them in the NFL draft.
17:04Let's be super clear. Najee Harris is several tiers down from those two players.
17:08I get that. But it also comes when in a preseason game they were mixing up the running backs, right?
17:14They're using a bunch of different guys. Cam Scadaboo's getting his work.
17:18He looks pretty good. But they're also not trying to trust him as the full deal workload guy.
17:23Then they go and sign Najee Harris who was a pretty well-regarded pass protector, has familiarity with Greg Roman's offense.
17:29Right after Tyron Tracy got Jackson Dart blown up on a pass protection issue.
17:33To me, I have just thought that Cam Scadaboo's ADP is kind of wildly high in the 40s.
17:38I think he belongs in the 50s because I feel like people are just penciling him in for the workload that he had last year, Ray.
17:46And I remain a little skeptical of that. So I don't think – we'll see.
17:50By the way, we'll see if Najee even makes a roster, obviously, what kind of shape he's in the whole deal.
17:56But to me, I just – maybe this is my own prior speaking.
18:00So again, please push back on me if you disagree.
18:03I think that Scadaboo is just a little bit – like he's a little bit too expensive for me.
18:09And this is kind of just part of that whole theme here.
18:12Yeah, I actually talked about Cam Scadaboo as a year two breakout running back for this year.
18:17But it wasn't saying that he was going to be a breakout.
18:21It was talking about, you know, what actually constitutes a breakout.
18:24Because I don't have Cam Scadaboo projected to be a thousand-yard rusher this year.
18:28I think his most impactful fantasy production that he's going to bring to the table, outside of getting his carries because he's
18:34going to get his Najee Harris or not, it's his work in the receiving game.
18:39Being an outlet for Jackson Dart. Using his incredible receiving profile.
18:42He did that at an incredible clip at Arizona State.
18:45But yeah, I mean, did we not listen to John Harbaugh talk about protection?
18:49And he said Jackson Dart absolutely should not have been hit.
18:52That should not have happened. That cannot happen. So whether it's because of Tyrone Tracy, they're telling us they were looking to bring somebody in anyway.
19:00I don't know about all that. I definitely think missing a block in a critical situation, getting your young quarterback put in
19:06the blue tent helps escalate that quest. But Najee Harris is there.
19:10He's going to touch a rock. Najee Harris isn't just in New York.
19:13If he makes this roster, Matt, he's going to be on the field.
19:17I'm not saying he's going to be a locked and loaded stud.
19:21He's going to be. But we just talked about gnats in the last segment.
19:25This is a big gnat right here in the backfield for Cam Scadaboo and his ceiling and upside.
19:30So I'm not going to push back on you at all.
19:33Because I was always a little bit pessimistic on the enthusiasm around Scadaboo being this elite, game-changing running back this year, here in year two.
19:41Yeah, again, I think people should remember what happened with Scadaboo as a starting running back for the New York Giants last
19:47year and why they might have wanted to kind of upgrade that position.
19:51He essentially had a high-volume workload from week three to week eight.
19:54And they were, the New York Giants, 142 running back touches during that span.
19:58That was second in the NFL behind only the Carolina Panthers at 169.
20:02So they ran the ball. They gave the ball to their running backs a lot.
20:07During that span, though, it wasn't like they were some dominant run game.
20:10They were 21st in running back rush success rate, EPA per rush, even 22nd.
20:15You know, there wasn't a lot of explosiveness either, 28 in explosive rushing rate.
20:19So it makes sense why they would want a little bit of an upgrade here.
20:23So, again, I'm not saying that Scadaboo, like, he's going to be a terrible pick or anything.
20:28But to me, I think he's more of a fifth-rounder than a fourth-rounder, which is why I just haven't really ended up with a lot of him.
20:36Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. All right, let's take our first quick break.
20:40We come back. We jump into the round four wide receivers.
20:43Guys, I'm definitely taking ahead of a player like Cam Scadaboo when it comes to the overall rankings.
20:49We will get into that right after this. All right, we're back.
20:52It is time to solve the wide receiver position in rounds four to six.
20:56As mentioned, this is a key area to get right this year.
21:00But not all these guys are going to be the right picks this year.
21:04So Ray Garvin and I, a little reception perception.
21:07Trust the Trinity. We're going to, you know, meet in the middle here.
21:10We're going to find out how you guys should be attacking this range of your drafts at the wide receiver position because
21:17I think it's critical to get right. And let's start off with, listen, like, we got about 13 guys to talk to today, Ray.
21:24So figure out if we can do this, okay?
21:26First one up with a Yahoo ADP in the fourth round.
21:30Jalen Waddle, 40th overall player right now. Listen, I have made it very clear.
21:34I'm very young on Jalen Waddle. People that listen to this podcast know I'm excited about Waddle.
21:39Glad to see he's back at practice. Okay? Good to see because I know the first thing that people say is, he's just going to get hurt, Harmon.
21:47He's just going to get hurt. And, you know, maybe he will.
21:50He already did get hurt. So not off to a great start.
21:54But he's back practicing in full in pads. People know what I think about Jalen Waddle.
21:59Ray, I'm curious what you think about Waddle in fantasy this year.
22:02I have him ranked, by the way, higher than this 41.
22:05I've got him, like, fringe top 25 type of player for me this year.
22:09Too high on Jalen Waddle? How are you feeling about this one?
22:13No, I feel really good, man. I feel really good.
22:16And when I'm looking at usage, one of the things that I really, a lot of times you see people, you know,
22:22put out a projection and then there's a static number, right?
22:25He's going to average 15 points per game, 13 points per game.
22:29You can look at historical usage and what a wide receiver does, what the team asks them to do.
22:35And you can develop a range. And I really like looking at a range, a range of outcome for a player like Jalen Waddle.
22:42And on the high end, you're talking top 10 historical percentile.
22:45That's what my top end, high end range is.
22:47And when I'm looking at the range of outcomes from his usage from last year, based on his 7.8 Trinity score, 7.4
22:54last year, I've got his high range at about 16 points per game for Jalen Waddle.
22:58That's high end range, which is a damn good wide receiver force for fantasy football.
23:03And then that median range outcome, about 13 points per game.
23:06Now, that doesn't take into account his, you know, his offense.
23:09It's not a projection number here. You can see on the screen, I've got some numbers on there as far as projections.
23:16But just his usage inside of this offense on a team that Bo Nix has thrown the ball, Matt, 600 times a
23:22year, the first two years of his career. They brought Jalen Waddle in to be a number one wide receiver.
23:28And when you look at just historically, based on that usage last year and how I measure things, I love the little boom, hit, bust, right?
23:36Like, what's the percent chance he's a 15-point-per-game player or more?
23:39And I believe on the screen, that's over a 30% chance to get you over 15 points per game, which lines up
23:45right in line with our range of outcome tools.
23:48So, this situation, the offensive trust in Bo Nix, whether you like him or not, and there's already, Cortland Sutton has come
23:54out himself to say, you know what? If I've got to take a little bit of a backseat because Jalen Waddle was
24:01here, then he said, I'm totally fine with that, right?
24:04Ultimate team player because, I mean, to a degree, he and Cortland Sutton do different things.
24:08So, I am totally with you on Waddle. And yes, he needs to stay on the field.
24:13I got it, folks. But that's everybody. I can say that about every single wide receiver in the NFL or player.
24:19You need to be on the field to be productive.
24:22Yeah, duh. We know that. But I'm not drafting with fear right now.
24:26I'm drafting on usage, opportunity. And Waddle, from the moment that he's been drafted out of Alabama, when he's on the field,
24:33he's pretty good at earning targets and usage. So, I'm sure what you scout and what you look at as far as
24:39his routes and how effective he is, it probably matches and is in line with how I feel about just his historical overall usage.
24:46Yeah. If I was a better podcast host, I would have been like, hey, Ray, can you give us like a just
24:52quick run through on the Trinity and what everything goes into it?
24:56Because I did forget to tee that off. So, I've spent too much time at the top of the show making fun
25:02of producer Colin instead of doing what producer Colin asked me to do, which is like, hey, Harmon, when you start this
25:09conversation, remember to ask Ray to give. So, for the uninitiated, since I screwed this up, just quick run through of what
25:15goes into the Trinity and how you calculate this.
25:18Quick run through. A combination of a lot of things that people talk about, but a lot of times don't really understand.
25:24Air yards, first downs, yards per route run, yak, target share.
25:28Like, I look at all those individual metrics and correlate those against fantasy success and blend it together into one number, right?
25:34Those things that really correlate to fantasy success, blend them together in one number so you can visualize what all that stuff
25:40actually means when you see the data, when you see the numbers, when you see the acronyms.
25:45Yeah, taking it into one really predictive score because all those things, like you said, correlate to fantasy football success, which is really great there.
25:53Obviously, for me, people know I'm charting routes, success rates, and most importantly, alignment pre-snap because that's, to me, what I think
25:59really matters for, honestly, Jalen Waddell and the next guy we were going to talk about here, trying to see how their
26:06role change is going to really impact their success from an individual route perspective and gathering targets.
26:10Because Waddell, as I've said many times, in Miami, he was the outside on-ball, you know, ex-receiver for a team that had
26:17a quarterback getting rid of the ball really fast.
26:20So that does diminish some of the overall statistical numbers in addition to the fact that, like, Denver is going to throw
26:26the ball, run more plays than Miami did last year for sure.
26:29For the first time in his career, Ray, Jalen Waddell is going to be like a movement player, you know, post-snap, pre-snap,
26:36the whole deal, getting more of those layup routes, finding ways into these explosive play situations.
26:41So I agree with you from an upside. When you said upside 16 points per game, do you do that off PPR or half PPR?
26:48Just remind you real quick. That's off of PPR.
26:51PPR. Okay, cool. So wide receiver 7 and 8, the last three seasons are Justin Jefferson and Nico Collins averaging about 16.4 to 16.3 PPR points per game.
26:59I agree with you that that is the upside case for Waddell, that I don't think people are accounting enough.
27:05Obviously, that's the upside case. It's the best range of outcomes, but there still is a median range there, too, which is
27:11why I really like what you do. So Ray and I are both in agreement that fourth round Jalen Waddell, pretty much
27:17absolute smash every single time that he gets there.
27:20Next guy up that we're going to talk about, Emeka Ibuka, is a little bit more interesting, Ray, because one, he is
27:26also dealing with an injury right now, potentially turf toe.
27:29We shall see what that whole deal is. I think he could be limited to start the season, but once he's healthy,
27:36Ray, this is another guy that I think is in a really good situation and an excellent breakout pick this year.
27:42ADP right now, 41st overall. Are you in? Are you out?
27:45How are we feeling about Emeka Ibuka? I'm still in.
27:48I'm looking at my clock because I saw that come out after we submitted all the stuff for the show notes, and
27:55I'm like, oh my gosh, don't let this turf toe be.
27:58But I'm in, and I get it, Matt. I think for so many people, it's hard to reconcile with how good he started off, right?
28:05Weeks one through eight, you're talking about a player, five touchdowns, two plus yards per route run, eight yards per target.
28:11I mean, the ADOP, 13 yards down the field, it truly looked like, and I know at some point we got to
28:18find somebody else to say this about. It felt like we had the next Puka Nakua type player out here, right?
28:24Just high target earner, awesome efficiency. And then we all know it cratered off, right?
28:28One touchdown over the next freaking half a season plus for the remainder of the season for Ibuka.
28:33But when you look inside of that, like what I really continue to stand 10 toes down on, toes no pun intended,
28:40Ibuka take mine, is that he still continued to have a 35% air yard share despite that dip.
28:45What cratered was the yards per route run, dropped from 2.11 down to less than one and a half yards per route run.
28:52The target rates fell a little bit in the touchdowns from five to one in that second half of the season.
28:58But you look at this offense, there was trust there.
29:01I've got his median range projection right around 1,000 yards.
29:04So still a really good player with an upside case of being a 16 point per game guy.
29:09If everything goes right for him. And you can see some of the other usage comps down there below.
29:15But you look at this offense. I like young Ted Hurst.
29:18I like him, Matt. But I'm not projecting him to come in and take significant work away from Ibuka as healthy.
29:24McMillan's a little bit banged up right now. I like Chris Godwin as a later round value.
29:29I'm not going to be scared of what happened at the back half of that season when the team just told me,
29:35hey, we're going to continue to commit to this guy.
29:38Let Mike Evans walk. And you got a new offensive coordinator in here.
29:42And in usage, could we not see his role change a little bit as far as where they line him up, how
29:49they deploy him, how they utilize him? There's still so much meat left on the bone with Ibuka.
29:54I don't know why some people talk about his story is written.
29:57We already know what kind of player he is because of what happened the second half of his rookie year.
30:03I'm not buying that for a second, Matt. No, I think you hit on the key point there, which is the role
30:10change for him, which, you know, there was a lot of variables that went into kind of the first half, second half
30:16splits in addition to his own injury, which is certainly true.
30:19Like this is backed up in his charting data that when I wrote about him in the rookie report in the first
30:2610 weeks of the season on RP, like he was much more effective than in the back half when he was playing through a hamstring injury.
30:33But production wise, his quarterback was also playing with an injury.
30:36The Bucs offensive line wasn't 100 percent healthy last year.
30:39Right now, it looks like it could be a top five unit in the NFL.
30:44But the other variable to raise that he had to play most of the season because Mike Evans was hurt in the X receiver role.
30:51He took in the games I chartered for him, 69 percent snaps outside, 64 percent snaps on the line of scrimmage as a prospect.
30:58I mean, you know this at Ohio State. He was more of like a big slot.
31:0381 percent of his snaps that I charted were off ball.
31:06And Zach Robinson saying that he's going to be the X receiver in this offense.
31:10It's the same thing with the waddle part of it.
31:13Like he's going to get more of the efficient looks like the the looks these guys that are running the routes off
31:20ball as the X receiver in motion. They're just have more of an access to lay up easier targets, efficient looks from the quarterback.
31:27And in this offensive system, explosive plays. This is a little bit reductive, Ray, but it's very similar to like what happened with Drake London.
31:34When Zach Robinson took over as the offensive coordinator in 2024 in Drake London's first two seasons under Arthur Smith, 85 and
31:4082.4 percent snaps on the line of scrimmage. The two seasons after that, 47 and 46.7 percent.
31:45And obviously we know which of the two better seasons for Drake London.
31:49It's 24 and 25. So I think that usage for a Buka.
31:53This is a guy that can win at all three positions, but will be maximized as that movement Z.
31:58So, again, 41st overall ADP. I know it's a little risky right now to make the click, Ray.
32:04But it sounds like this is one of the guys you and I think are is a really good fourth round pick.
32:10Got to have some conviction in this proxy. And let me just we play a proxy of a game.
32:16We don't none of us actually play fantasy football.
32:18Somebody else is playing the game of football. We play a proxy for a game.
32:23You got to have some conviction, man. And I'm just I get the apprehension, especially when you got Todd Bowles saying, I
32:29don't know if he'll be ready week one or not.
32:32I get that. But football players play. And if he's on the field doing what he does, he's probably going to be pretty doggone good, Matt.
32:39Yeah. And I kind of want to hear from someone else other than Todd Bowles, like what Mecca Buka's injury status is
32:46after Bowles famously said, Bucky Irving will be available sometime in the summer or fall, which like brother, two different seasons.
32:52Those are those are two different seasons. And then Bucky Irving's just like practicing in full and training camp.
32:58So I don't know what to make of the Bowles quotes part of this, but I'm hoping that this is on the optimistic side for a Mecca Buka.
33:06You mentioned you got to have conviction. You got to take a stand.
33:10You definitely have to have some conviction, Ray, to click Tedrow McMillan at the 44th overall pick in Yahoo ADP right now,
33:16because I'm sure and I know I've seen you post about McMillan.
33:20I know we both like the player. How could anybody not like the player?
33:24He's a great player. But you know what the first response is going to be?
33:28Quarterback Bryce Young. You're really going to take Bryce Young's number one receiver in the fourth round?
33:33Ray, are you taking Bryce Young's number one receiver in the fourth round?
33:37I am taking Bryce Young's number one wide receiver in the fourth round.
33:41And I'm not here. If you don't want to, then that's fine.
33:44Right. It's it's it's the usage profile here. You're talking about a rookie wide receiver that in 17 games, 93 percent route
33:50participation, 41 percent of the team's air yards. And it wasn't a player that got worse as the season got along.
33:57And they continued to feed him offensive rookie of the year.
34:00Let me hit you with a couple of numbers.
34:02Right. Look, let me hit you with some names right here with Ted Romo.
34:07They put it on the screen. Rookie wide receiver seasons with a Trinity score over 7.4, which is very, very, very good.
34:13You've got Puka Nakua, Malik Neighbors, Jamar Chase, Brian Thomas Jr., Justin Jefferson, Ladd McConkie, Jalen Waddle, and Ted Romo McMillan.
34:19So seven of those eight scored 14 plus points per game as a rookie McMillan, 12.6.
34:24Right. So when you're looking at his range of outcome for McMillan anywhere on a high end, if Bryce can get it together.
34:31And I know that's a big if you're talking about a 17 point per game type ceiling for McMillan.
34:36But at the median range, if he if if he just gets us one point per game more than he did last
34:42year and he's a 13 and a half, 14 point per game wide receiver.
34:47Is that elite? No. Is that league winning? No.
34:49But is that something that you can plug into your lineup and say, you know what?
34:54The day in the game that he does have two touchdowns.
34:57What I bet on is that usage. As long as you're continuing to get fed, I'll ride the variance, the roller coaster
35:04ride, because even some of the elite receivers have some games where you look up and you're like, damn, that's all I got.
35:10That's all I got this week. But you're counting on the things that you track, Matt, getting the roles.
35:16I know because I am a reception perception subscriber.
35:18A lot of dig routes for Ted Romo McMillan.
35:21Right. You're counting on that usage. You're counting on that usage.
35:24Flipping the script at some point. Bryce is a big question mark.
35:28What I don't question is this player's opportunity inside of this offense.
35:31Yeah. Ted Romo McMillan, you mentioned the dig routes for him, man.
35:35He was obviously used a decent bit on those routes.
35:38He had just over scroll, scroll, scroll. 17.5% of his routes were dig routes.
35:42Look at the producers got on the screen there even better.
35:45But 91.5% success rate on dig routes. That was the best among any player I charted last season.
35:50And Ted Romo McMillan even said in our Super Bowl conversation that was his favorite route to run.
35:56So what do you know? His favorite route to run is his best route.
36:00You love to see it backed up by the charting data there.
36:03Yeah. Ted Romo is a baller, dude. I mean, what did you say?
36:07The median range of outcomes. Like you said, 17 points per game was the ceiling.
36:11Yeah. 13 points per game. You know, I mean, again, like 13.6, that's wide receiver 21 over the last three years.
36:17It's like it would be a he's drafted wide receiver 19.
36:21That's maybe like the smallest of losses. And I think that is why McMillan's a good pick and why I have him ranked as wide receiver 19.
36:29And I'm kind of, you know, I'm not quite like so far ahead of ADP on him, but I'm within the range.
36:35I have him ahead of his overall ADP just because like, you know, I'm not, I'm not clicking a quarterback in round four.
36:42I'm not clicking camp Scadaboo or Travis each a Chan in the, in the fourth round.
36:46I'm, I'm rather, I'm telling you to take receivers in this range overall.
36:50But the other part of it too, is this, I do think McMillan has a pretty secure season long floor.
36:56Even if you don't believe in the Bryce Young variable because of the usage you mentioned there.
37:01And also Ray, this is another guy, maybe not as dramatic, but is in line for a pretty significant role change.
37:07You know, just like waddle, just like a Buka, the Panthers want to use him in the slot more.
37:13As I've said, they can't use him in the slot much less than he did over the last few really over last
37:19year, 15% of his snaps are in the slot last year.
37:22That was one of the lowest among all receivers that, you know, ran enough qualifying routes.
37:27If they just hit that thing to 25, you know, 22%, what if we double it 30% based on the preseason, he was in the slot a ton.
37:35Jalen Coker being a baller and being able to play to X receiver matters for this too.
37:40And just like, I know Ray that Bryce Young is Bryce Young and he's averaged what?
37:45Like 180 passing yards in his career. It's 190.
37:47It's not good. Okay. But I did have a pretty convincing conversation with Jeff Bell from football guys yesterday about this.
37:54And, you know, I think for Bryce Young, the physical tools are never going to be, you know, where, where they need
38:00to be, which is why he was a strange first overall pick.
38:04He's never going to get taller. His arms are going to be stronger.
38:07That being said, he is a guy who the game could slow down for him.
38:12You know, the mental side of it could pick up.
38:15And that is where quarterbacks do make that leap.
38:17So again, Bryce Young making that leap is, is okay.
38:20Well then you get Alex Smith, which we can have the conversation of, was that worth the first overall pick?
38:26But if he's like an Alex Smith type player, I think that's enough to get Tedrow McMillan, the football and Jalen Coker, the football.
38:33So yeah. I mean, it's, again, it's not the most comfortable click in the world, but I am in on him where he goes in the fourth round.
38:41Can I ask you a question about a reception perception and what you've seen?
38:45Because my eyes just immediately gravitate to the red, right?
38:48I'm like, oh my God, where was he red at?
38:51And I need him to be better downfield. I talked about a 40% air yard share, but like in, in, in your
38:58opinion, I mean, can Bryce get him better down the field?
39:01Those post routes, I'm looking at the nine routes, even to a degree, Matt, the slant, right?
39:06But pickings really started to up at this past year.
39:09And you're like, man, he's just killing on these slant routes.
39:12Like in your opinion and reception perception, like can Bryce help him in those areas?
39:16You know, and honestly, I think this is an area where Tedrowa just needs to get better too, because this was the
39:23reason I didn't have him as I had him as the, obviously Travis Hunter was kind of like a wild card.
39:29I had him as, you know, he was, if he was going to play wide receiver, I think he could end up
39:35being the best receiver in this class. I had him ranked ahead of Tedrow McMillan for that reason.
39:41But, you know, if you put Travis Hunter to the side, he was my top ranked guy, but I didn't necessarily have
39:47him in that tier of like the Malik neighbors is or the Drake London's as a prospect, because I think the two
39:53areas that Tedrowa did like where he just needs to get better is separating down the field specifically against press man coverage
40:00and like quick releases into these slant routes. Like you're like, you're saying, I mean, Drake London, he's been able to not
40:06just, you know, dunk on people down the field, which is another area where McMillan quietly was a little bit volatile in contested catch situations.
40:14Like he wasn't one of the better contested catch receivers I charted last year.
40:18That's an area that he does need to improve as well.
40:21But again, this is almost maybe optimistic in a way here, Ray, because I think he can get better at those things.
40:27I don't know if he will, but I think he can.
40:31And if he does, well, it doesn't really matter about the Bryce Young part of it because like Tedrowa can just do that on his own.
40:38So I think that you could kind of take that both ways and that maybe this will always be a thing that
40:45keeps him as a good, not elite number one receiver.
40:48Right. But it's also part of it too, that if he doesn't get better in that area, if he does get better
40:54in that area, then it's talking about like, we can take Bryce Young along for the ride too.
40:59Okay. Appreciate it, man. That, I mean, that, that helps, right?
41:02Cause I'm just, I'm just looking at usage. What do you got?
41:06Right. Percentages usage. And this is why what you do is so valuable because that helps me ground some things.
41:12Like if he can get better at that, then I feel better about that upper projectile 17 point band.
41:17If not, then it's probably in between there somewhere, right?
41:20Less than 17, but hopefully right around that 13 and a half point per game range for, for McMillan.
41:26I think that the kind of bow to put on the McMillan conversation here is that, yeah, there are definitely ways where
41:32he could fall a little bit below his wide receiver, 1980 P, but even if you, like he's a small, like lost player, I think.
41:40And I do think there's a possibility that if Bryce Young is better in this offense is just like, they're a little
41:46bit more throw happy this year, which I think is possible.
41:49They spread the field a little bit more. There's a chance that he can be that big win.
41:54Like the fact that you think he has that 17 point per game ceiling, that is pretty significant to the upside case for him.
42:01So small loss, big win. That's again, that's why he's going in the fourth round here.
42:06You mentioned your, I might get drawn to some red routes in the reception perception route tree.
42:11Not going to see a lot of those for the next player that we're going to discuss here.
42:16Lad McConkie, 46th overall ADP on Yahoo right now.
42:19I think that it's pretty easy to explain a down season away for Lad McConkie last year and get him right back up into this fourth round range.
42:27But Ray, when you see him on the board, 46th overall, is this a guy you're clicking?
42:32Can I just say, and I would hate to do this to my own thing, the Trinity, but I think there's some
42:39more upside than the range of outcome tool is even printing for Lad McConkie on here.
42:43I mean, you see the tweet on the screen.
42:46He ran more routes than he did as a rookie, but somehow got fewer targets.
42:50And there are a lot of things that happen inside of Los Angeles.
42:54The offensive line, which I don't even want to talk about right now.
42:58We all know what was going on with the O-line, the coordinator, right, Matt?
43:02But yes, I want Lad. I am big time in on Lad McConkie this year in this offense.
43:07Big time in on Justin Herbert, the offense overall.
43:10I don't like seeing the red things on the screen right now when we're looking at that offensive front.
43:15But yeah, man, I'm very much in on a Lad McConkie bounce back this year for a lot of the reasons that
43:22we've discussed, a lot of the reasons you talked about on other shows.
43:26I know we are aligned right here. Yeah, just for people that aren't, you know, chronically online and following every bit of
43:32injury news, which by the way, congratulations for you guys.
43:35Your mental health is probably better for it. Tyler Biotich, the center, was carted off today with an injury.
43:41So we're going to keep an eye on that.
43:43He was a big signing for them in free agency.
43:46So we'll keep an eye on that. Plus, Rashawn Slater might be out for a couple of weeks here after his knee injury, flared up in training camp.
43:54Remember, he's coming off a torn patella tendon. But the good news is that the Chargers did get some depth in here this year.
44:01Jake Slaughter, their rookie, has been kind of the backup at center in training camp.
44:06And Trey Pipkins has been the starting left guard.
44:08You know, you can say, oh, Trey Pipkins, not that great.
44:11But, you know, at least they got some depth at center because it was a massive drop off last year with Bradley Bozeman out there.
44:19So we'll see. We're going to keep an eye on those injuries for the Los Angeles Chargers.
44:24But let me ask you this, Ray, because you mentioned like you think there's more upside to Ladd McConkie than what the range of outcomes tool compares there.
44:32I agree. Like, I think he's he's a baller and could be one of those guys that I don't know if he's
44:38going to go full Jackson Smith and Jigbo. Right.
44:41But he's one of those guys who's a slot mostly player and becomes an outside receiver who's winning on these downfield routes.
44:47Like, I think we've seen enough evidence that he can be that guy in the NFL as long as his body holds up.
44:54Right. Like I have a player comparison to a reception perception.
44:57He does kind of compare a little bit to Tyler Lockett, which Lockett's a guy that, you know, dealt with a lot
45:04of injuries, probably couldn't handle 140, 150 targets in a season.
45:07I get that. But what do you think the range of outcomes tool would have printed for Ladd McConkie after year one?
45:13Probably a higher range of outcomes. Right. And how do you square like when you're doing your analysis?
45:19How do you kind of square one season to another?
45:22So I guess this is a philosophical conversation because you can look at things in totality.
45:26The range of outcome tool in which we presented some of the screenshots today is week one through 17.
45:32You could segment it down. And sometimes I like to break it down, Matt, because a season is like multiple seasons inside of seasons.
45:39Things happen. Things change. And when I look at Ladd last year, weeks 10 through 18, and I know we stopped playing
45:45in week 17, but talking about a player sub 15% target share.
45:49I just, that's not wide receiver. That's not even, there's nowhere close to a team's wide, like something was off in LA in that room.
45:56And I'm just, I'm not carrying that forward. I'm not saying that he has to have his greatest usage profile.
46:02And now that's all I want to stick on.
46:05Some of the bad sticks in and we're showing that here.
46:08That's why the highest range is only 14.8 points per game, but I'm just not buying that with him being healthy on
46:14the field, you're talking about a sub 15% target share guy in 2026.
46:18So that alone, when I'm looking at the numbers, I look at the media and like, okay, if he can get me that right.
46:25And then not be a sub 15% target share guy for eight freaking games of the season, then just logically he will be better.
46:32Keenan Allen is gone. I don't know what's going on in the tight end room, but what I do know is I
46:38think pretty objectively, he's the best receiver on that team playing with one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL.
46:44We like the environment that that's, you got to kind of break down the season inside the season as well.
46:50Yeah. I kind of, and maybe this is just me, which is weird.
46:54Cause I'm not like this in every area of my life, but I tend to skew a little optimistic with players.
47:00Sometimes it's like, if you showed me a great season, I believe that that player is in there somewhere.
47:06And it's like, don't overcomplicate it here. He's shown that ceiling.
47:09You said it. He's the best receiver on the team.
47:12I think pretty clearly. Justin Herbert is a great quarterback.
47:15Mike McDaniel is a great offensive coach. Like let's not overcomplicate this thing here too much.
47:19Like all the variables are pointing in one specific direction.
47:22So top five comps for Aladdin McConkey's rookie season in the reception perception player comparison tool, 2016, Stefan Diggs, 2019, Tyler Lockett, 2019, Anthony Miller.
47:30That's a, that's a, what if story right there.
47:32If he had ever had his head on straight 2019 Keenan Allen, 2025, Devante Smith.
47:37So a lot of good players there and then Anthony Miller.
47:40So it just kind of like, that's the range.
47:42Could he become Stefan Diggs or is he more Tyler Lockett?
47:46And I think even if he's Tyler Lockett in the fourth round, I'm probably okay with that, but that's where we're talking
47:52about hitting that, you know, 15, 14 point per game season as opposed to, yeah, true, true takeover year.
47:58So I think we're both in on Aladdin McConkey.
48:00Honestly, it sounds like we're, we're pretty cool with this, this entire fourth round of wide receivers, but will we feel the same about the fifth round players?
48:08We're going to get into those guys right after this.
48:11All right, we're back. Let's get into the fifth round wide receivers and let's start off with a guy.
48:17We're kind of the same song and dance every year with Mr.
48:20Garrett Wilson, 51st overall ADP here on Garrett Wilson.
48:23Ray, we know this guy's good. Okay. Um, like there's, trust me, there's nothing tilting about popping his name in the player comparison tool.
48:30I've mentioned here a couple of times and seeing like, oh, look, Garrett Wilson compares to all the best receivers in football.
48:37Like, that's great. Why doesn't Garrett Wilson produce like all the best wide receivers in football?
48:41Well, uh, I, I, it's hard, hard to say, man.
48:44I, I don't know what it could be. Um, could be, oh, wait, he plays for the jets and you know, annually
48:51there's quarterback issues and or offensive play caller issues.
48:53Well, how do you feel about Garrett Wilson this year in the Frank Reich offense with Geno Smith, Ray Garvin at 51st overall.
49:00I don't like how you added the Frank Reich, Geno Smith offense at the end.
49:04So I'm just going to, well, I know Matt, this is, if there were a poster child for, I I'm almost positive.
49:11The very first Trinity video that I ever did back in 23, he was on the thumbnail.
49:16It was like him and Chris Olave. And I'm just going to start with the positive and I'm cherry picking because I've
49:22only got six weeks of data to work with.
49:25Okay. Yeah. But in those first six weeks, I mean, you're talking about a player who he had his highest usage stretch
49:31of his career, full stop air yard share. Got it.
49:34Target shared. Got it. Route participation. Had it. You see him on the chart.
49:38There are headshots of other elite wide receivers in that range.
49:41I mean it with Justin Fields and he's no great quarterback at all.
49:45The usage is always there for Garrett Wilson. Listen, it wasn't Garrett Wilson leading the league and routes run for like two years in a row.
49:53We know he can play, but it's just the production, the production, the production is always disappointing.
49:58We're talking about a player who I'd love to hit him at 15 points per game.
50:02Just one time. Just get to 15. Garrett Wilson.
50:05Listen, and I've got him projected right there. His median range of outcome based on that small sample size, right?
50:11You're looking at about 15.4 points per game with a high end range.
50:15If he were to continue what he has done historically, I mean at ridiculous 18 point per game range.
50:20Elephant in the room and the thing that I will address and I really can't knock you is Geno Smith.
50:26Is that quarterback? Frank Wright offense. But I kind of sit back and say, Geno might be one of the better QBs
50:33that he's had in some time right here. And you look at the other pieces of the offense, Matt.
50:38I know. Matt, it's a low bar to clear.
50:41You look at everybody else and I'm like, who's going to take it?
50:45Who else? Listen, I get it. I remember doing the same thing with Allen Robinson over the years.
50:50It's like, well, Andy Dalton might be the best quarterback he's ever played with.
50:54Like Nick Foles, maybe the best quarterback he's ever played with.
50:57And you do that coping every single year, the whole deal.
51:00Yeah. Listen, I get it. I think the funny thing, though, about Garrett Wilson is, and maybe this is like torture funny, not haha funny.
51:08What you put up on the screen there, the Trinity, the target share and everything like, yeah, man, like the usage was
51:14there and he was crushing it last season. I think people forget this even in an offense with freaking Justin Fields because
51:20he was in this awesome role last season where like Tanner Angstrand, not a perfect offensive coordinator.
51:25I get it. The run game was not well designed.
51:28Honestly, it was a really well designed passing game, but they didn't even fit the quarterback.
51:33Probably not. What a weird team. However, he had him running the fewest nine routes on a rate percentage of his entire career.
51:40Did, uh, get, did Tanner Angstrand with Garrett Wilson.
51:42He had him take the highest percentage of snaps off the line of scrimmage.
51:47Like that usage change that we're talking about for like, Oh, Joe Waddle, Emeka Buka.
51:51That's what happened for Garrett Wilson last year. And it, we were seeing, this is my point.
51:56This is like what I'm talking about. Why it's so matters so much because then, yeah, he has the 34% target share,
52:02even with a bad quarterback and a bad offense because he's just getting hammered.
52:06The football with these layup opportunities. And now I was like, well, I don't know if that's going to happen with Frank Reich.
52:13The one thing I do know though, because I actually think Ray, the Frank Reich variable bothers me a little bit more than the Geno Smith variable.
52:21And maybe that's stupid, but I think Geno at this point in his career could still like get the number one receiver of the football enough.
52:29But I just don't know what the offense is going to look like.
52:32The last time we saw Frank Reich in the NFL in 2023, it didn't look good.
52:37It was pretty strict, like static 11 personnel, which is kind of the offense that Garrett Wilson was playing in prior to Tanner Engstrom being there.
52:45So that bothers me a little bit. But the one good thing though, and we were joking about this, unfortunately, off air here.
52:51At one point, this offseason was like, man, the Jets quietly added a lot of pass catching talent.
52:57Like maybe Garrett Wilson's target share comes down. Well, Omar Cooper's not really ready to contribute right now.
53:02He's running with the backups. Kenyon Sadiq is hurt.
53:05Aidy Mitchell, you know, he's Aidy Mitchell. Like, I mean, whatever.
53:08Garrett Wilson, I think, is still going to have a massive target share.
53:12It's just, you know what, the floor and ceiling combination might be pretty tight for him.
53:16And I just want to quickly, all targets aren't created equal, right?
53:20Because in my projection model, I have him at 159 targets, right?
53:23But only 1,200 yards. You give Puk and Nakua 160 targets, it's 1,600, 1,700 yards for that player.
53:28And that just lets you know that all volume isn't created equal.
53:32You want the volume, you want the high target rate, but there has to be a level of efficiency there for a player to really hit that peak.
53:40I'm just, I'm real, you think I'm, give me 15 points per game, Garrett.
53:44Do that one time because you're being fed a tremendous amount of volume.
53:48I do think Frank Wright is a little bit of a problem, but that's the difference, right?
53:53Like, yes, I want the high 30% target share, but I need the efficiency to follow along with it.
53:59Yeah, he's wide receiver 21 and ADP. I'm going to have him as my wide receiver 21.
54:04Like, I just kind of want to be in line with ADP on Garrett Wilson.
54:08This is a guy, the next one up here, Terry McLaurin, 54th overall ADP on Yahoo.
54:13This is somebody from a positional standpoint I wanted to be higher on.
54:16But, Ray, a little bit nervous that the Laramie Tunsil injury is looming over this entire thing.
54:21Stephon Diggs is here now to take some of those layup targets away.
54:25Terry went from a guy that I was targeting heavily in this range to now a guy that I'm not going to say I'm full on avoiding.
54:33I'm actually from an overall standpoint just because I'm higher on all these receivers.
54:37Higher than the overall ADP market on Terry McLaurin.
54:40But somebody that I went from, like, hammering in this range to just kind of, like, considering in this range.
54:46Where are you on Terry? Terry. Yeah, I think the thing that really jumps out to me is look at that ceiling.
54:52Right? We're talking about a median for Garrett Wilson at 15.
54:55And the ceiling here for McLaurin is around 14 points per game.
54:5915 points per game based on his usage. Right?
55:01In 24 with JD5 during his rookie year, you're talking about a player who had 13 touchdowns.
55:06Last year, three touchdowns. The injury, the offense was a mess.
55:10I want to be in on him more because I think McLaurin is a good player.
55:14But, you know, 80 catches, 10, 20, seven touchdowns, that's fine.
55:18It's not difference making. It's not I have to have him.
55:21It's kind of like he's in a range where, like, if there's somebody else you can go there.
55:26If a running back had kind of fallen. Like, I like him.
55:29I do think the addition of Diggs and Okonkwo complicate McLaurin's outlook a little bit more than maybe people want to admit.
55:36The Diggs one especially, dude. Because, yeah, I mean, I love your range of outcomes there for him as the ceiling is like 15 points per game.
55:44Which, by the way, over the last three seasons, Mike Evans, 15.6.
55:47Rasheed Rice, 14.9. That's wide receiver 11 to 12.
55:50That is probably you're looking to maybe get him in the back half wide receiver one range if you're Terry McLaurin.
55:56Which I still think is possible, right? But it involves a lot of factors here that I think get a little bit
56:03more complicated after the Diggs addition and the Laramie Tunsil injury.
56:06Because Terry McLaurin, he's top five in the NFL in area yards per target over the last three seasons.
56:11And that's going to be harder to get those passes to hit without the all-star left tackle in the mix here.
56:17Especially now that, like, I do think David Blau coming in here, we could see a similar situation with what we just talked about with Garrett Wilson.
56:25Where he went from this kind of, like, static boundary receiver to a move-around player.
56:30Because nobody had more static usage than Terry McLaurin under Cliff Kingsbury.
56:33It's just all outside left wide receiver and just kind of hang around over there.
56:38So it will get more dynamic in that sense.
56:40But the slot reps, the reps off the line of scrimmage, I kind of think those will go more towards Stephon Diggs now.
56:47So the usage will be better for McLaurin from a pre-sap standpoint.
56:50But not quite to the degree, Ray, where, again, I thought a month ago he was like, yeah, hammer him at this ADP every single time.
56:58He should be going, you know, four or five wide receiver spots higher than this.
57:02Now I think he's just kind of, like, appropriately priced.
57:05Well, I think that's why you and I, I mean, when Diggs signed there, we didn't even talk about this, you know, via text or anything.
57:13But I saw you tweeting about Diggs because I'd already been talking about Diggs as well.
57:18We had both been saying he's still a really good wide receiver.
57:21And I do think that that, and I forgot about Tunsil.
57:24That combined with Tunsil is probably what's going to keep McLaurin from hitting that 15-point-per-game ceiling and having another solid season.
57:30But not, not, I don't know if he's getting right there.
57:34The ceiling projections, 1111. I mean, that'd be a great outcome if he bounced back from a touchdown standpoint, which difficult, not sticky.
57:40And Diggs is really good still, still a really good player.
57:44Yeah, and I think that's what's good about the, I don't think he's going to go downside fully, like 11.6 points per game.
57:50I think that would be pretty disappointing. But, like, the expected being 13.3, I think that's really helpful when we're looking in
57:57this range of guys because there are other players, you know, and look, they're going around earlier.
58:02I get that. Where the ceiling is higher and the floor maybe, you know, might be a little bit lower, right?
58:08You know, I think the floor is lower on maybe a guy like Jalen Waddell or Mecca Abuka, but we're trying to hit home.
58:15If you're looking and shopping in the fifth round, you're trying to hit home runs.
58:19Terry probably now is a little bit less of a home run than he would have been for me, you know, like I said, a month ago.
58:27So when we're trying to differentiate this name of this group of wide receivers, like none of it, we haven't hit on
58:34one Ray where we're like, don't draft him. We like all this range, but Terry's maybe the guy that fits more in
58:40that kind of, you know, maybe not the biggest hit in the world if that's what you're shopping for in this range.
58:46The next player going off the board in Yahoo ADP could potentially be that big hit, a fifth round wide receiver.
58:53Well, two wide receivers from now. I really screwed my T's up there.
58:56But one of the next guys that we're going to discuss on the other side of this break could be potentially that big hit.
59:03But will he be? We'll get into that right after this.
59:07All right, we're back. Let's get a little deeper into the fifth round here at the wide receiver position.
59:12And let's start off with another old familiar face.
59:15That's Devontae Adams, 56th overall ADP on Yahoo right now.
59:18I mean, Ray, what a fascinating season last year for Devontae Adams where a whole lot of touchdowns, not a ton of yards.
59:24I am really curious. I have my thoughts on where he is from like the aging curve perspective and everything like that.
59:31But I'm just really curious. What does the Trinity say about what kind of was, I don't know, like a strange usage season for Adams last year?
59:39Like I know he's going to check a lot of boxes, but where are we at with Devontae Adams fifth round pick here in the year 2026?
59:47Yeah, ironically, ironically, it's pretty close to where he was last year.
59:50His expected range of outcome is right at 12.9 points per game.
59:54You're talking about a player who had a 23% touchdown rate per reception last year.
59:58It's just, I mean, he was just on a crazy tear.
60:01Led the league in touchdown catches and he only played, what, 13, 14 games?
60:05The offense is great. Matthew Stafford is phenomenal. There's not even a question about his role.
60:10He's the number two receiver. He's great in the red zone.
60:13The usage is propped up a lot by his involvement in the red zone.
60:17It's the touchdowns. I still have projected for him.
60:20I think he's the only player that we'll talk about and one of the few players that I actually have projected for
60:26double digit touchdowns in sub 900 receiving yards for Devontae Adams.
60:30Now, had he played the full 17, Matt, isn't that weird, right?
60:33Had he played the full 17, he would have gone over 1,000.
60:37But age, I don't look at age, so I don't really know.
60:40I'm interested to your take on that, like how much of that decline can we expect?
60:45But, you know, 12.9 to I don't know if I would go ceiling at 16, 7, maybe that 14.8 upside ceiling for Adams.
60:52But it's it's touchdowns and a good offense for Devontae.
60:54So funny, too, because I guess my how we could really hit from a ceiling perspective would be maybe the contingent upside if Puga Nakua ever misses time.
61:03And we did see actually one game of him without Puga Nakua.
61:06And if you look at the fantasy points, it's like, oh, 24 half PPR fantasy points in week seven against the Jacksonville Jaguars.
61:13Like that. Yeah, that was without Puga Nakua. He hit that contingent upside.
61:17Then you realize he had five catches, 35 yards and three.
61:20Count them three touchdowns in that game is like, well, that actually didn't answer any questions about whether he could be like
61:26a bell cow receiver at this point. Made up term by Andrew Barry, but a bell cow receiver at this point in the career.
61:33If Puga Nakua got hurt. Look, I mean, there's no question Adams is a declining player from his peak.
61:39I mean, but that being said, he is probably or at least he has a really good argument to be the best
61:45receiver of the reception perception era 2014 to current when I've been working on receivers.
61:50He has been one of the peak players position.
61:52So he's declined off that peak. There's no doubt about that.
61:56Like that's not even an interesting conversation. He can still do some of the things they want him to do on the breaking routes.
62:03He's just not going to be like, to me, I don't know if he could.
62:07He wouldn't slip into Puga Nakua's role at this point.
62:10Right. If Puga Nakua was to get hurt. And to me, Ray, again, it's not that I dislike Adams.
62:15Adams, it's just he's the guy I have clicked on probably the less the least in this range, because to me, just
62:22I don't know if there's like a real ceiling hit for him.
62:25Whereas I do see that with the next two guys and even one more guy that we're going to talk about in
62:32this range of wide receivers for Adams. Like he kind of needs to run back the same season that he had last
62:38year to be a massive hit, which is counting on, you know, outlier touchdowns.
62:42And it's counting on the entire Rams ecosystem to hold up, you know, offensive line, aging quarterback Puka.
62:48The Rams are very fragile. Adams's case for fantasy, I think, is also a little fragile, too.
62:53I mean, can he be one of those receivers?
62:55And I'm using a different position. You know, those running backs that they're never going to get 700 yards, 800, 900 yards,
63:02but they just in the goal line. They're getting the carries.
63:05And, you know, you look up and the running backs got nine touchdowns, but they don't do anything else for you.
63:11They don't catch pass that. It feels like he's kind of goal line vulture.
63:15He's Matt Asiata. I want to disrespect. I was going to say, but he's so much better than one.
63:21I didn't even want to say that name, but you get the point, right?
63:25Like there's not going to be elite volume. It's Puka.
63:28You are betting on the outliers touchdowns with Adams, but I like him.
63:31He's good. He's still good. He's still good, but.
63:34He's still good. Of course. Yeah. He's still good.
63:37I just, again, I've just prioritized a little bit younger, less age.
63:40Because there's also, yeah. What if the, here's the thing with wide receiver age cliffs.
63:45I think the rules, there's really no rules at this position.
63:48Guys like Adams and ironically, all the players we've talked about, Diggs, Keenan Allen, they can still produce as their careers go on because they're elite technicians.
63:56All three of those guys were that player at their peak and they remain that player even as the physical decline happens.
64:02But Adams' role is always going to lean into that extra receiver stuff, press man coverage.
64:07And if he does take a step back this coming season, I think that's another risk in addition to the fact that
64:13you're kind of counting on running hot on touchdowns or everything.
64:16So I just have prioritized younger players that have a bit wider range of outcomes in this area of the draft.
64:23One of those players, by the way, is the next one we're going to discuss.
64:27Luther Burden. 59th overall ADP on Yahoo. So funny, by the way.
64:30Just, this is a quick, quick, quick little tangent.
64:33It is really funny, Ray, how my entire timeline the last couple of weeks has been like, oh, Luther Burden's hurt.
64:39Can't wait to take the ADP discount on Luther Burden.
64:42Now he's been hurt. He's literally dropped one spot in Yahoo ADP between this week or last week and this week.
64:48Okay? So I know you guys can't be like, well, on this sharper platform, he's actually falling.
64:53Okay, well, here in the real world where real people draft, all right, he's falling one spot.
64:58He actually hasn't fallen at all. There's been no ADP discount.
65:01Can't believe you guys didn't buy the dip on Luther.
65:04Okay. All right. Whatever. 58th overall ADP last week.
65:0759th overall ADP this week. Great. I got my stupid little tangent out of the way.
65:12This is the, I actually, by the way, 58th overall ADP even before this injury.
65:16I think this was like the best platform to draft Luther Burden on because this I think is a pretty good ADP on Burden.
65:23One that I'm actually even still ahead on despite the injury.
65:26So I've yapped enough here, Ray. I've done the dumbest voice maybe I've ever done on the show.
65:31What do you think? You like Luther Burden this year or what?
65:35Please take the mic for me. First of all, I like the voice, but I love Luther Burden.
65:40And I'm going to just, this is what I'm going to just give the people.
65:45Matt, I'm going to just give the people what they want.
65:48I'm not messing around with no expected range of outcome.
65:51I ain't messing around with no median. Get that 966 yards out of there.
65:55Historical usage comps. If he hits his high end ceiling for Luther Burden, give the people what they want.
66:00Amon Ross St. Brown 2022. 146 targets. 106. Don't do this.
66:04106 receptions. 1161 and 6. 16 points per. I'm giving the people what they want.
66:08I have stayed away from the Amon Ross Burden stuff.
66:11I didn't put this in here. I just ran the numbers and boop it, printed it out.
66:16It's Amon Ross St. Brown high income. That's top 10 percentile outcome for Burden, but you're talking about 97 catches, 1259, and nine people will love it.
66:24I mean, and that's what people are expecting. That's what people are expecting.
66:28Do I expect that from a median standpoint? No, I don't.
66:31I think he's closer to right at that thousand yard range.
66:34If he got me 966 and 6, I'm loving it.
66:37More importantly, you know, 50% chance to be over 13 points per game.
66:41Cool. Like, I'm good with that for a second year receiver, folks.
66:44Like, give him some time to bake and develop.
66:47He didn't have a full offseason last year. He doesn't have a full offseason this year.
66:52But I like the talent, like the player, and the usage should be there.
66:56I mean, and he's in the right offense and the right ecosystem for him, too.
67:00Yeah, in my player comparison tool, there is a Alon Ross St.
67:04Brown comp, but it's not one of the top ones.
67:06Okay, okay. It's just a moderate comp. Okay, we sort him by elite match, strong match, moderate, and then loose.
67:12He's in the 2023 Alon Ross St. Brown is in the moderate comp, but it shows you the bucket that we're shopping.
67:19The top three comps, by the way, 2020 Robert Woods, 2024 Stefan Diggs, 2022 Chris Godwin.
67:23Like, that's a pretty cool combination of players, too, for Luther Burton.
67:27And I think it's the kind of the right role for him as well, you know, where it's like, hey, this guy,
67:33he's going to be kind of a slot-based player.
67:36But he can win after the catch like a Robert Woods, like a Chris Godwin.
67:40But also, you want to line him up against man coverage and run real deal routes like Stefan Diggs did?
67:46Yeah, he can do that, too. Like, there's so much to like about Luther Burton's game.
67:51Injury is definitely a concern. Like, he's been banged up now throughout the course of his NFL career, even dating back to college as well.
67:58He is one of those guys where it's on my radar.
68:01It's like, man, he just moves different. All the guys are just like, man, he moves different.
68:06That translates to he gets hurt all the time because the human body can't move like that.
68:11That is a little something that's on my radar.
68:14Okay? But at the same time, I still think Luther Burton is a great pick in this range.
68:19I like my answer to the Bears has just been, yes, take them all.
68:23This offense is going to be really awesome this year, Luther Burton included.
68:27So, yeah, I'm certainly not going to be here to rain on the Luther Burton parade.
68:32And like I said, 58th overall ADP on Yahoo.
68:34I haven't ranked as the 49th overall player. So, I'm still saying, like, be ahead of ADP on Luther Burton.
68:40Really exciting player that should be back. Sounds like he should be back by week one.
68:45So, yeah, Luther Burton's definitely a guy that I am in on taking in this range.
68:50Let's get into the round six wide receivers here, Ray.
68:53This is an interesting group as well and still kind of fits in the same bucket.
68:57DJ Moore, 61st overall ADP on Yahoo Drafts. And, Ray, this is one of the guys I've just changed my mind on the hardest.
69:04And, honestly, it's been a lot of deep diving into my own data here, Ray, because I was initially looking at DJ
69:11Moore and being like, ah, is he declining? He hasn't played as well in the last two years.
69:16And then, like, I ran a whole test study on some of my own route metrics and just sort of trying to
69:22quantify something I was talking about with Nate on Football 301 about a month ago now maybe.
69:27It feels like a month. It was probably like last week.
69:31Where just I think DJ Moore was really miscast in Ben Johnson's offense and really misused.
69:35And the study I ran, I think, really found that out.
69:38And I think the routes that he's really good on, they're the routes that Joe Brady wants to run from the boundary receiver here.
69:45So DJ Moore has gone from a guy that, like, I wasn't sure I was going to be in on this range
69:52to now being a guy that I'm actually ahead of ADP on by a few positional spots.
69:57And his ADP is also rising as well. I love it.
70:00I love it. I really don't have a ton to add besides that I agree with you.
70:05And, you know, sometimes we were talking about it earlier.
70:08You're like, you don't want to complicate things. And this is beyond Keon Coleman in a walking boot.
70:13It's beyond all this other stuff. This is a player that I do think there was a point last year where, like, these, Matt, you know it, man.
70:21You talk to these NFL athletes. They're people just like us, right?
70:25And there was a point where it did feel like DJ Moore probably knew I'm not going to be around, right?
70:31They drafted these two young receivers. They got a freaking tight end in the building.
70:35And it wasn't just the DJ Moore thing. Olamide Ziki has got packing as well.
70:40So they definitely had a plan to transition this offense elsewhere.
70:43And I will continue to say it. I don't want to make the same parallels of Josh Allen getting his step on
70:49Diggs back in 2020 because I just think Diggs was a little better of a player at that stage of his career than Moore is now.
70:57But this will work. And I know it was just one preseason game.
71:01But what DJ Moore wants to do, and Joe Brady's had him.
71:04His 2,000-yard seasons came with the E hat. Joe Brady was there calling the plays with DJ Moore, with Josh Allen, in
71:11an offense that everybody, me, you, Yahoo, and Vegas expects to be one of the best offenses in the NFL.
71:17Like, you saw my numbers. I'm much more bullish on DJ Moore for this upcoming season.
71:21I'm very much in on Moore. And I'll be honest with you.
71:25This is the situation change that Trinity doesn't really account for.
71:28Because if I just took his raw usage from last year and plugged that into, all right, he's going to be exactly what he was at Chicago.
71:36It doesn't look like this. I'm just being totally true.
71:39The high-end range was like 12 points per game if I just took what he did last year.
71:44But the environment change changes everything as well. Yeah, that's the hardest thing to do is the environment change, especially.
71:50Just again, like I said, I think this route tree that he's going to be running here, like we're seeing on the
71:56screen, the route tree he ran last year, you see it's a lot of dig routes, it's a lot of out routes.
72:03And those are two of his least effective patterns, where he's really good running the nine route, running the curl route, running the slant route.
72:10And if you look at Joe Brady's traditional X receiver, they're going to run a lot of those routes, get him in space on the slants.
72:18Josh Allen loves to throw those deeper stop routes.
72:20DJ Moore runs those really well. So I think there's actually at least one more, maybe even two more good seasons in the bag here for DJ Moore.
72:29So he's someone that I was kind of like, I don't know if I'm going to be drafting him to, he is
72:35going off the board as the 62nd overall player, 61st overall player.
72:38I have him in the 40s actually. So I'm really in on DJ Moore this year.
72:43Last guy to talk about before we get to break here, Christian Watson, wide receiver, off the board 26, 26, 66 to overall ADP.
72:50I'm curious what you think about Christian Watson here as a sixth round pick.
72:54Yeah. Another thing that I just want to point out, right?
72:57Each one of these players, their usage is not scored against the league.
73:01Okay. It's scored against that team in that environment.
73:04So you'll see Watson and 7.5 might be one of the higher scores that we've had on this screen.
73:09But then you look at the projections and it's like 12.2 thousand yards.
73:13Well, that can't be what's per his team. And I still have Christian Watson projected to lead Green Bay in receiving from the wide receiver standpoint.
73:21But it doesn't quite compare to what McMillan or Buka's ceiling is because I just, the usage suggested they're a little better player than Christian Watson.
73:28You see his high-end comp right here was Mike Williams from 2021, which he got you, what, close to 15 points per game?
73:35And ceiling side, I think that's where Watson is.
73:38I don't want to be, you and I, Matt, were, I felt like we were ahead of market last year when he returned.
73:45Like, let's see. But when he started to do it, we were like, hey, it's working.
73:49We're riding with him. I'm just, I'm not ready to coordinate him as a truly elite difference-making receiver.
73:54But I think he can be a really good one this year for Green Bay.
73:59That's kind of how I feel about him too.
74:01You know, like his top three comps in the player comparison tools, like 2018 Kenny Galladay, when Kenny Galladay was a good player, two Marvin Jones seasons.
74:09So like good receiver, boundary guy, a little bit volatile.
74:12And I kind of think that's who Christian Watson will be this year.
74:16I thought I find him to be kind of, I'm still a little bit ahead of the overall ADP.
74:22Cause like I said, I, I'm just taking receivers over running backs in this range of the draft, but I'm more so
74:28like in line with his positional ADP. I kind of find him to be appropriately priced at the wide receiver position rather than like a screaming, screaming value.
74:36But he's a guy that on a weekly basis has a really high ceiling.
74:40So if you take some of those safer wide receivers early on that you don't expect that big ceiling from, I think
74:47Watson makes for a really good compliment to that style of room, but there are still risks beyond just injuries with Christian Watson.
74:53It's just, you know, other guys involved the whole deal, but, but good pick.
74:58I think in this range, maybe not one of my favorite picks, but definitely still a really good pick.
75:03You think golden impacts them, Matt? Like where, just where are you at with golden versus Watson?
75:08Uh, I like all the Packers receivers at ADP.
75:11Um, I think the one thing that could really change about this offense is that they are more uptempo, which they were in the preseason.
75:18Uh, Nate and I have been talking about Nate too much on the show.
75:22I'm giving him too much credit. Okay. I've got to stop that.
75:26Uh, he's going to be, he's going to be on the show tomorrow, by the way.
75:30So there you go. Uh, but we were talking about how this offense can play more uptempo this year.
75:36Um, I think they're going to play more 11 personnel, which I think is good for all of these guys, especially Jane
75:42Reed, but reads the guy I've been ahead of ADP most on, whereas kind of golden just goes so cheap.
75:48I'm fine taking him, but I think Watson and read are significantly better players than golden right now.
75:53So that's kind of from a talent perspective, uh, how it would, how it rank it there, but we're going to take our last quick break.
76:01We come back. We've got three more names to talk about in the sixth round.
76:05We'll get into that right after this. All right, we're back.
76:09We have three more players with ADPs in the sixth round at the wide receiver position.
76:13And Ray, we got to be quick on these ones.
76:16We got Mike Evans. We got Roma Dusey. We got Jamison Williams.
76:20I think Mike Evans can be the fastest one, Ray, because I mean, the range of outcomes here, I'm sure the Trinity agrees.
76:26It's, I mean, he either scores 10 touchdowns and is awesome, or he plays three games, you know?
76:32I mean, what, what, what more is there to say about Mike Evans?
76:35Yeah, that's the answer. He's going to play three games and push for scoring 10 touchdowns.
76:40So, and yeah, if he's healthy, he's on the field, he's going to do a big Mike does.
76:45I don't want to talk about injury. We're not getting into an injury show, but it's a concern that people have.
76:52So if there's a different click, if you don't feel comfortable, I'm not going to argue on that one.
76:57And if you're like, Hey, he's a walking seven, eight, nine, 10 touchdown guy draft them.
77:02All I'll say is don't complain when he misses time.
77:05Cause he's probably going to miss a game or two.
77:08So totally. And just from a reception perception standpoint, I'm sure Trinity, it's tough because like he barely played last year.
77:14You know, we wasn't even a full-time player. I will just say, uh, RP wise, like, yeah, definitely wasn't the same player
77:20last year, but if he can be the guy that he was on tape last year as the X receiver for the
77:2749ers, he is a great fit there. So yes.
77:29Has he been injured the past few seasons for sure?
77:32Has he been injured this month in training camp?
77:35Yes. Has he been injured today, August 18th? Yes.
77:37So yes, I mean, that's, that's what you're dealing with if you're clicking Mike Evans, but no question if he's a player,
77:44he was on tape last year, which is no guarantee.
77:47So again, we're saying some ifs here, which is why I've just kind of been in line with ADP on Mike Evans.
77:53Why I've been, I've moved a guy like DJ more ahead of him, you know, in the wide receiver rankings is because there is that risk there.
78:01Uh, you know what it is. Another guy I have ranked ahead of Mike Evans, which I know that sounds crazy based on these two players names.
78:09I have Roma Dunze, who's the 68th overall player off the board in Yahoo drafts right now.
78:14I have him ranked ahead of Mike Evans because one, I'm really in on this bears ecosystem.
78:19And Ray, we've talked about Rome plenty in the past.
78:22Um, what does the Trinity say about a Dunze from a usage standpoint?
78:26Trinity loves them. Trinity likes them. You know, the, the second half of the season, it hurts him, right?
78:31It doesn't account for injury and all of that, but the usage is real and the offense is real.
78:37We're projecting Ben Johnson to take this thing to step forward.
78:40Caleb, Caleb Williams in year three. I'll say is that this, I will continue to say it till we get to week one.
78:47It does not have to be either or it's not.
78:50You have to like burden and then dislike. Oh, Dunze, like both of these players are probably pretty good.
78:55And both of these players probably won't hit that green box on Trinity.
78:59Like they probably, neither of them will probably hit that ceiling, but be in between that median range and that high end range.
79:06They're both really good players. So I'm fine with those doing say, like, I like them a lot.
79:11And I do think there's some, maybe some little higher touchdown potential with him than it is Luther burden as well.
79:17Yeah. So that's the thing where I still really like Rome and I have them ahead of burden, even had them ahead of burden before the injury.
79:25Cause I think the touchdown ceiling on Rome is higher, like the deep routes, the red zone usage, the whole deal there.
79:31And yeah, I mean, the only way dude that they probably hit that green, you know, the, the, the ceiling case for
79:38both of these guys is one of the other gets hurt.
79:41I mean, shoot when Luther burden wasn't playing very much at the beginning of last season cause he was injured in camp.
79:47That was when Roma do say it was awesome.
79:50Luther burden had that massive week 17 game against 49ers.
79:53Roma do say it wasn't playing. So by the way, Luther burdens hurt right now.
79:57You know, what if an injury nags, like Roma do say it could be a great pick and vice versa in that situation as well.
80:05So yeah, very much in on Rome. I've got him.
80:08I mean, just like, well, he's one of the receivers I'm highest on relative to ADP.
80:12Nobody would be surprised about that. I think he's a baller.
80:16James Williams, last guy to talk about here. 69th overall.
80:18Tell me what the Trinity says about this guy, because there's quite a story to tell in the first and the second
80:25half, but the full picture of last season usage wise, where do you stand on Jameson Williams?
80:30It's so wild when I run it through and then I see the numbers so high.
80:35And then I look at the targets and I'm like, how many hundred and six, 1100 yards, 1200.
80:40It's he's he's in a Nick two back to back years of 1100 yards for this guy.
80:45And he's never hyper targeted. He I hate doing this, but he's awesome in basketball.
80:49Like I just I want Jameson Williams and I never want to think about when I have to play him.
80:55I never want to think of it. I just want him on the field because he's the type of player, Matt, he
81:01might get three targets in a week. So Trinity to be like, ah, usage is bad.
81:06But then the dots way up at the top because he scored two touchdowns and they were like 80 yard touchdown plays for Jameson Williams.
81:13Look right here. 58 receptions and 915 yards. He's like the black Alec Pierce out here.
81:18Just low volume, low receptions, high yards. Antoine Pierce, James Williams.
81:21I don't know what it is. I think, listen, I don't maybe I shouldn't step on this here.
81:27I think I think Alec Pierce is the white Jameson Williams.
81:30If we're being serious for a second, Jamo is maybe a little bit of a step ahead of Alec Pierce.
81:36But yeah, I mean, listen, James Williams is a great player and he's just always going to be a model breaker.
81:42You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, he's never going to get the targets that you want.
81:47But as long as he's in this offense with this quarterback and by the way, he's another guy speaking of contingent value.
81:53We've really only seen him one time without Amon Ross St.
81:56Brown in that Thanksgiving game against the Packers. And it's like, oh, what do you know?
82:01Let's funnel a bunch of screens to Jameson Williams.
82:04Let's get him a lot of layup targets. And he was unbelievable in that game.
82:08So yeah, Jamo, I know that people want to pass him over.
82:12His ADP has actually fallen three spots between last week to this week.
82:15I think that's a mistake. Williams is still a guy I'm really, really in on this year.
82:20And I think it's just always going to be a little bit of an ADP breaker.
82:25Ray, this show lived up to my expectations. We covered news.
82:28We covered, I mean, I think we saw the wide receiver four to six range.
82:33And the answer is there are better targets than others.
82:36But for the most part, this is really good range to draft wide receivers.
82:40Tell the people where they can find out more about the Trinity and where they can check out all of your work.
82:46Because I think the people were loving it in the YouTube chat.
82:50Yeah, I love it, man. This was a great show.
82:52Appreciate you, Matt. Appreciate Yahoo for letting us talk about this.
82:56And it's usage visualized. It's ddfantasyfootball.com. I incorporate it into the pieces, into the articles that we write about.
83:01And then just a great compliment to what you do, Matt.
83:04Because I don't do that. I'm not charting routes.
83:07I'm not looking at who's doing what well. So this has absolutely helped me refine my process.
83:12So if you want to check out usage, play with the range of outcomes tools.
83:16Highly recommend checking it out. ddfantasyfootball.com. No question. I think it's a great compliment to what I do.
83:22And I think your work is fantastic. So I think we really help the people here today.
83:27Shout out to you, Ray Garvin. And also, shout out to Yahoo Fantasy because it's our 29th year of fantasy football here.
83:33And to celebrate day 9 of 29, we are revealing that Yahoo is the official fantasy platform for the Flock League.
83:39It is a really popular creator league from YouTube there.
83:42Drafted championship. We are running this whole thing there.
83:45Look at the picture on the screen here. Look at the guys.
83:48I got our old pal Sal Vetri is on the screen here.
83:52We've got my buddy Davis Maddox there. Bunch of great folks in this league.
83:56So you can definitely check them out and check out this league as well because it's a blast.
84:01These guys have a ton of fun with it.
84:04I've been seeing a lot of cool posts from all of them.
84:07So love having them in the network here. Also, love tomorrow's show because it is going to be, yes, another banger.
84:13Nate Tice joins me for one of the best pods of the month.
84:17This is where we look at which teams might be red flags based on how high their guys are going in ADP
84:24versus how low their offense is projected to be from a wide variety of sources.
84:28Yes, we're looking at the Atlanta Falcons this year.
84:31That pod is going to be live right here on this YouTube channel at 4 p.m.
84:35Eastern. Subscribe, like the video, and we'll see you guys tomorrow.
84:39Until then, we are out.