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Biggest WR draft debates: Who to target and avoid in 'make or break' rounds

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 25 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Aug 19, 2026
Published
Wed, August 19, 2026
18
Player insights
16
Players mentioned
Topics
Xavier LegetteAlec PierceChristian WatsonD.J. MooreDavante AdamsEmeka EgbukaGarrett WilsonJaylen WaddleJosh DownsKeenan AllenLadd McConkeyLuther BurdenMike EvansNajee Harris
Player analysis

Player insights

18

Alec Pierce

NegativeDepth Chart7:55

The signing of Keenan Allen signals that Alec Pierce is not currently in the team's plans, with Matt Harmon noting that Pierce's ADP should continue to fall. Pierce is dealing with health issues and faces a volatile role as a vertical-only threat in an offense that now features multiple short-area pass catchers.

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Christian Watson

NegativeValue120:43

Matt Harmon views Christian Watson as appropriately priced at his 66th overall ADP rather than a screaming value. While Watson is projected to lead Green Bay in receiving, his volatility and injury history make him a high-ceiling complement to safer wide receivers rather than a primary target. Harmon prefers Jayden Reed for his talent profile but remains in on the Packers' offense as a whole.

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D.J. Moore

PositiveProjection114:17

Matt Harmon has significantly updated his stance on DJ Moore, moving him ahead of his 61st overall ADP into his top 40 rankings. Harmon argues Moore was miscast in the previous offense and is a perfect fit for Joe Brady's boundary receiver role, which emphasizes the slant and deep stop routes Moore excels at. Ray agrees, noting the environment change in Buffalo makes Moore a strong target.

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Davante Adams

NegativeProjection98:35

Matt Harmon and Ray note that Adams is a declining player from his peak but remains an elite technician. He is projected for double-digit touchdowns but likely under 900 receiving yards. His fantasy value is fragile and dependent on outlier touchdown production and the overall health of the Rams' offense. He is viewed as a 'goal-line vulture' rather than a high-volume bell-cow receiver at this stage of his career.

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Emeka Egbuka

PositiveBreakout45:20

Despite a late-season dip and current turf toe concerns, Ray Garvin remains high on Emeka Egbuka as a breakout candidate. Garvin notes Egbuka maintained a 35% air yard share even during his slump and projects a median outcome of 1,000 yards. Matt Harmon highlights a potential role change, moving Egbuka from an outside X-receiver role to a movement Z-receiver, which should increase his access to efficient, layup targets.

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Garrett Wilson

NegativeUsage80:17

Garrett Wilson's usage metrics (target share, route participation) are elite, but his production has been disappointing due to poor quarterback play and offensive scheme issues. Harmon notes that Wilson's usage changed last year to include more snaps off the line of scrimmage, which helped him maintain a 34% target share. However, concerns persist regarding the Frank Reich offense and the lack of efficiency relative to his high volume.

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Jaylen Waddle

PositiveValue35:30

Matt Harmon and Ray Garvin agree that Jalen Waddle is a smash pick in the fourth round. Harmon ranks him as a fringe top-25 player, while Garvin projects a high-end range of 16 PPR points per game, noting a 30% chance of exceeding 15 points per game. Waddle is expected to transition into a movement role, allowing for more efficient, explosive play opportunities compared to his previous static X-receiver role in Miami.

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Josh Downs

NegativeUsage12:00

Keenan Allen's arrival creates a 'gnat' situation for Josh Downs, limiting his target upside. While Harmon expects Downs' average depth of target to increase, he downgraded Downs in his rankings, though he remains an attractive target in the late 30s to early 40s WR range.

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Keenan Allen

NegativeUsage9:58

Keenan Allen signed a one-year deal with the Colts. While he remains a strong route runner who commands targets, his usage declined late last season; he failed to clear 50 yards in any game from Week 8 onward and is now 33-34 years old. He is best viewed as a late-round WR5.

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Ladd McConkey

PositiveBreakout70:16

Harmon and Garvin are both high on a Ladd McConkey bounce-back season. Garvin argues that McConkey's sub-15% target share in the latter half of last season was an anomaly due to team dysfunction and should not be projected forward. McConkey is viewed as the best receiver on the Chargers, playing with an elite quarterback in Justin Herbert.

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Luther Burden

PositiveValue107:07

Matt Harmon is ahead of the 59th overall ADP on Luther Burden, ranking him as the 49th overall player. Despite injury concerns, Harmon believes the talent and role in the Bears' offense make him a great pick. Ray notes that while a top-10 percentile outcome would mirror Amon-Ra St. Brown's 2022 season, a realistic median expectation is around 1,000 yards.

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Mike Evans

NegativeInjury126:16

Matt Harmon and Ray highlight that Mike Evans carries significant injury risk, noting he has been banged up throughout training camp. While he remains a high-touchdown threat when on the field, his availability is a major concern, leading Harmon to rank DJ Moore and Rome Odunze ahead of him in his rankings.

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Najee Harris

NegativeDepth Chart16:14

Najee Harris signed with the Giants following a torn Achilles. While his role is uncertain, his presence as a pass protector and familiarity with Greg Roman's offense makes him a potential 'gnat' in the backfield that threatens the workload and ceiling of Cam Scadaboo.

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Rome Odunze

PositiveProjection130:09

Matt Harmon ranks Rome Odunze ahead of Mike Evans, citing his belief in the Bears' ecosystem and the strong usage metrics provided by the Trinity. Harmon is highly optimistic about the Bears' offense and Caleb Williams' development in his third year.

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Terry McLaurin

NegativeProjection90:08

Harmon and Garvin have cooled on Terry McLaurin as a 'hammer' target due to the addition of Stephon Diggs and the injury to Laramie Tunsil. While McLaurin's usage may become more dynamic under the new coaching staff, Diggs is expected to command slot and off-the-line reps, capping McLaurin's ceiling at approximately 15 points per game.

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Xavier Legette

PositiveUsage55:10

Ray Garvin and Matt Harmon are bullish on Xavier Legette (referred to as Ted Romo McMillan in transcript) in the fourth round due to his elite usage profile. Legette recorded a 93% route participation rate and 41% air yard share as a rookie. Harmon notes Legette's 91.5% success rate on dig routes was the best among charted players, and the team plans to increase his slot usage, which was only 15% last season.

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NegativeProjection65:23

Matt Harmon ranked Legette ahead of Xavier Legette (referred to as Tedrow McMillan in transcript) as a prospect, but noted Legette needs to improve his separation against press man coverage and quick releases on slant routes. Legette also showed volatility in contested catch situations. Harmon believes he can improve, which would allow him to succeed regardless of Bryce Young's performance, though he may remain a good receiver rather than an elite number one.

Insight page
PositiveProjection68:32

Ray Garvin projects a 13.5 to 17 points per game range for Legette. Harmon notes that if Legette improves his technical areas and the Panthers' offense becomes more throw-happy under Bryce Young, Legette could be a significant value at his WR19 ADP.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

1,055
0:00Big show for you here today. Truly, this one is absolutely electric.
0:04Ray Garvin and I combine forces, reception perception meets the Trinity.
0:07Routes, success rates, alignment meets usage, historic comparisons, range of outcomes to solve rounds four to six, the wide receiver position.
0:13This is a massive area for wide receivers. Okay, great picks in this range.
0:17We're going to try to help you find which ones are the best.
0:21We talked to everybody that has a Yahoo! ADP in rounds four, five and six.
0:25Which ones have a high ceiling? Which ones have a medium ceiling?
0:29The whole deal there. Plus, we talked about the Keenan Allen, two Colts signing, Najiera signs with the Giants, all that and more coming up on today's show.
0:37Let's get into it. What's going on everyone? I'm Matt Harmon.
0:40Welcome to the Yahoo! Fantasy Forecast and it is, oh man, it's a hell of a day to talk ball.
0:46It's a big show today. Joining me to talk a little ball to solve a very important problem this year.
0:52In fantasy football drafts, it's a good problem to have.
0:55Got a great range of wide receivers to discuss today.
0:58I am jacked up for the show and joining me to talk a little ball to do all that to solve this problem.
1:04It is my good friend, my guy, Ray Garvin.
1:07Ray, what's going on, man? Matt, what's up, baby?
1:10Another day. Another day to talk ball. Chopped up with you, the good people in YouTube.
1:14We're having some fun before the show talking Dallas Cowboys.
1:17Listen, I don't want to out you, Matt. I don't want to out you.
1:21You give us a lot of slack behind the scenes before the show with our love of Dallas.
1:27But you, my friend, said you are kind of in on the Cowboys this year, too.
1:31So I want to put that out there for all the people, just in case I'm not on a show and you're kind of talking about Dallas.
1:39I just want the people to know you are feeling that Cowboys love, too, baby.
1:43And it's okay. It's okay. Yeah, I mean, I make no bones about it.
1:48I want, you know, I don't want good things to happen to producer Colin.
1:52Like his, his sadness fuels me throughout the season as I start to run out of energy, you know, and the Cowboys
1:58start to run out of wins that that brings my energy back up.
2:02But this year, man, and producer Colin's a Cowboys fan for those who are uninitiated.
2:06But this year, I'm very much in on the Dallas Cowboys.
2:09I said it on Football 3. I went on with Nate.
2:13I think they're going to have a top five offense.
2:16I picked them to win the division. Very, very into Cowboys players this year in fantasy football.
2:21And Ray, that actually perfectly transitions us into our topic today.
2:24Because like I said, we have a big one today.
2:27Because you know why the Dallas Cowboys are going to be good this year?
2:31Because they've got two excellent wide receivers. CeeDee Lamb, George Pickens.
2:34Those guys are going very high in fantasy football.
2:37But the tough problem for me, Ray, is that I haven't gotten a lot of those wide receivers in rounds one and round two.
2:44Because that's typically where I've been shopping in the running back bucket.
2:47And a big reason for that is because this year in fantasy football drafts, rounds four to six on Yahoo are particularly
2:54loaded with an excellent group of wide receivers. Round three is also very good.
2:58There's really good players in round three. You got your Chris Olaves.
3:01You got your Malik Nabors coming in there. You got Zay Flowers with the third round ADP.
3:06But Ray, we're going to talk about it in just a moment.
3:10That fourth to sixth round is excellent. But here's the thing, man.
3:13Not all those players are going to work out.
3:16Some of them are going to be busts based on expectations.
3:19So I figured that the best way to solve one of the most important mysteries in fantasy football this year, who are
3:25the right picks in this round's four to six range?
3:28We're going to get reception perception. We're going to get the Trinity.
3:32We're going to meet in the middle here and try to solve this for the people.
3:37Yeah, I think this is going to be a dope show, man, because we both love this position.
3:42We talk about it all the time. This is it's a passion of ours.
3:46Right. And I think that using a lot of the things that reception perception brings to the table, along with for me,
3:52Matt, I don't know how you were growing up and in school, but I'm a visual learner, man.
3:58Like all throughout school, I got different color highlighters and tabs.
4:01And I just it helps me understand like the numbers and all of this stuff, seeing it visually.
4:06And that's what you know, that's what Trinity is.
4:09It's usage. It's visualized. So kind of talking about usage versus, hey, what players are actually good at doing certain things.
4:15I think we're definitely going to be able to help people identify at least some some good bets to make.
4:21Now, are we going to be right on every single player?
4:24Absolutely not. But we're just trying to set the table for you.
4:27Give you the best possible ingredients to make the best meal possible.
4:31So to be able to bring these two things together today, it's going to be very applicable to everybody that plays fantasy football on our platform.
4:39Dynasty fans, everything right here in the show today with those wide receivers in that round.
4:43So excited to get into this with you, man.
4:46And today should be a good one. It should be a great day for a great show.
4:51And you know what's going to be another day for a great show?
4:55It's coming up here at the end of this month.
4:57As I keep reminding you guys, exciting news for everyone in the Buffalo area.
5:02Yeah, that's right. Yahoo Fantasy Draft Weekend presented by Versed is coming to Dick's House of Sport in the Buffalo area on
5:08Saturday, August 29th, 3 to 7 p.m. I'm going to be there.
5:12You're seeing it on the screen. Josh Norris' bright, shining face.
5:15Boone's little smirk there. They're both going to be there with me for a special live edition of the Yahoo Fantasy Forecast.
5:21We're going to break down everything you need to know before your fantasy draft.
5:25We're going to answer questions during a live Q&A.
5:28We're going to be giving away prizes throughout the day as well.
5:31So if you're ready for your draft, this is the place to be.
5:35You will get ready when you are there. Bring your league mates.
5:39Bring your friends. Come hang out with us. We are going to see you guys in Amherst, New York on August 29th at 3 p.m.
5:46So yes, like I said, big show today. No doubt about it.
5:50But we do have two pieces of news to cover in the fantasy football fallout section here.
5:54First of all, and this will be applicable to breakout wide receivers here.
5:58Keenan Allen signs a one-year deal worth up to $8.32 million with the Indianapolis Colts.
6:03That was reported, I believe, late last night. I woke up to it this morning.
6:07Keenan Allen reunites with Shane Steichen, who he was with during his time in Los Angeles with the Chargers.
6:13So Ray, Keenan Allen to the Colts. Feels like this one has been building for a minute now.
6:18Expectations for Keenan Allen. Thoughts also on how he impacts some of the other wide receivers and pass catchers on this roster.
6:24Yeah, Keenan Allen is what, 33, 34 years old right now.
6:28And he still, I mean, 122 targets last year.
6:30He still commands targets. I would defer to you on how good he looks on those routes.
6:35But the usage alone suggests that if he's on the field, he's going to earn that opportunity from a quarterback.
6:41You look at this Indianapolis Colts receiving core. Outside of Josh Downs, it's poor, right?
6:45There's not a lot there. It's Josh Downs and Tyler Warren.
6:49And a couple of days ago, I was excited.
6:51I was talking to people on X. I'm like, yes, Tyler Warren, 150 targets incoming.
6:56And then you look around. And we even had the conversation.
6:59I said, Matt, what are the chances that they slide Josh Downs to the outside in single receiver sets?
7:04And you even said, you were like, I don't know, Ray.
7:08I wouldn't be betting on him doing that. So he definitely impacts this room.
7:12He's going to impact Downs. He's going to impact a little bit of Tyler Warren.
7:16I think the biggest thing is this absolutely lets us know that Alec Pierce ain't right.
7:21Something is really up with Pierce. And when he comes back, he'll maintain his role.
7:25But when Keenan Allen's on the field, man, he still has an ability to earn targets.
7:30And I'm not going to say that he's going to go out there and be a top three receiver, a top 10 guy.
7:36And we know that. But you get what I'm saying.
7:39I'm not saying that he's an all-world player at this stage of his career.
7:43But he's going to earn opportunity. And it's going to impact some of the other pass catchers, in particular Josh Downs, for sure.
7:50Yeah, for sure. I think the point about Alec Pierce, though, is the biggest one.
7:55This is a guy that you just – unfortunately, where he goes right now, I know his ADP is going to continue to fall.
8:02I just – I can't click him where he's going right now.
8:05He's in really – he's just in too good of an area at the wide receiver position overall where there are so
8:12many interesting options within and around his ADP. I mean, if you look at Alec Pierce right now, again, he's not going super high.
8:19He's fallen to the eighth round, 94th overall. I mean, there are just guys like Chris Godwin, Josh Downs, who we're going to talk about, Michael Wilson.
8:26I know Quentin Johnston picked up an injury in practice today.
8:30But pretty similar archetype. He sounds like he's going to be fine, Quentin Johnston, with the injury.
8:35Stefan Diggs, Cortland Sutton, Jordan Addison. There's just too many other interesting bets that I think provide a little bit of a safer floor.
8:42And frankly, you know, maybe a similar ceiling. I think this also is going to be a bit of an issue for
8:48Alec Pierce, who was already kind of a guy that was going to run all the vertical routes in this offense.
8:54And, you know, we'll see if they just run as pure on some of those vertical passes that they did last year.
9:01Now that's like definitely going to be more of the case because Keenan Allen is not solving that vertical issue.
9:06I think Josh Downs' average depth of target will go up.
9:10I mean, he had a lower A dot last year than freaking Keenan Allen himself.
9:14I think Josh Downs' average depth of target will go up, but he's not going to be in the Alec Pierce territory,
9:21who's been one of the top air yards per target players over the last three seasons at the wide receiver position.
9:27He's going to be even more volatile, I think, boom or bust on a weekly basis now that all the other three guys are like short area players.
9:35So to me, and plus, like, is he even going to be healthy when he gets back out there?
9:40Probably not. Like, will he not be healthy until midway through the season?
9:44Potentially. So Pierce, I think the biggest fallout of this is just he's going to be a guy that is going to
9:51have to fall a lot further in ADP to get me to click on him.
9:55And unfortunately, I just I'm not sure he's going to get all the way down to like the 10th round, which is
10:01where I think you'd have to do it. You know, that's my boy.
10:05I love me some Antoine, but I just this year, man, I can't do it.
10:10Right. And we're talking. And I think that when we're having this conversation, this is best case scenario.
10:15He hasn't done anything all offseason. So you're talking about a player.
10:18And you and I had this conversation last year with Terry McLaurin.
10:22And I remember you were like, Ray, are you not concerned that McLaurin hadn't done jack crap throughout the entire offseason?
10:28He was hurt. He's in and out of camp.
10:31And I was like, oh, no, Matt, he'll be fine.
10:34He'll just hit the ground running. And that was not the case.
10:37And I'm not blaming it all on McLaurin missing practice.
10:40But this is worst case scenario for a player that we were all kind of excited to see, maybe take a little
10:46step forward, increase his role, do some different things this year.
10:50And I just have a hard time. I mean, he's got to fall significantly past his ADP right now for me to
10:56even look at his name and think about press and draft.
10:59As for Keenan Allen himself, I put him kind of in my mid-50s at the wide receiver position, sort of like a
11:06wide receiver five type of player, late, late round pick outside the top 130 guys.
11:10Because the biggest thing for him is that in the first seven weeks of the season, Ray, he ran around on 75%
11:17of the dropbacks for the Los Angeles Chargers. He cleared 75% just one more time in week eight on.
11:22He was definitely they backed off his usage a little bit.
11:25He didn't clear 50 yards receiving in any game from week eight on.
11:29Like, on the whole, he was still – excuse me, he did clear it once in a week 11 game against the Jacksonville Jaguars.
11:36He had exactly 53 yards on four catches, six targets.
11:39So he definitely slowed down, I think, as the season went on.
11:43That's to be expected. As we mentioned, he's 33, 34 years old.
11:46He's really good still because of his route running and his ability to get open in the short areas.
11:52But he's not going to impact the game down the football field.
11:55And what I think is also interesting, too, about Keenan Allen as it relates to Josh Downs, Keenan was only in the
12:02slot on 35% of his plays last year. He was mostly a Z receiver for this team, and they tried to get
12:08the explosive plays down the football field to Josh Downs.
12:11I love the edit that Jason Jung threw up here on the screen.
12:15This is my hell, by the way. I mean, if Keenan Allen, who is one of my favorite receivers of this era,
12:21like rookie year, he blocks Roma Dunze. Last year, he kind of blocked Ladd McConkie.
12:26It's not all Keenan's fault about the McConkie stuff, but still.
12:29And then he does it to Josh Downs this year.
12:32That's like three reception perception stars. He just – you know, like the reception perception star of old Keenan Allen blocks these three young dudes.
12:39It's going to be tough for me to forgive my guy Keenan Allen if he does this three years in a row
12:45to a young player that I really like. But, again, I think Downs is going to play more as the Z receiver
12:52in 12 personnel, but we'll kick into the slot, and Keenan will come in as the Z receiver in 11 personnel.
12:58So I did give Downs a little bit of a downgrade in my rankings, but I don't want to overcorrect and go too far on him, Ray.
13:06I still think he's a good, attractive target in kind of, you know, the late 30s, early to 40s at the wide receiver position.
13:13Maybe like the 85th to 95th, somewhere around there, overall player for me still.
13:17Well, I'm still very much aligned with the projection that you see right here from Yahoo.
13:22I've got a couple of less yards for Josh Downs, but I still have him at five touchdowns.
13:27I have his ceiling close to almost 12 points per game.
13:30So I still like Josh Downs. Josh Downs is still – I mean, he's – he just – here's what Keenan Allen is.
13:37He is one of the players that I call – I term in fantasies a gnat.
13:41He's one of those guys that's never going to take enough opportunity to, in quotes, nuke somebody.
13:46But it's just annoying. Like, go away. Get – you know, just get away.
13:51He's just a gnat in the offense. I don't have him doing a ton, but I do have him being just kind
13:57of annoying for fantasy in this room. Yeah, there's no question that, again, he does limit the upside case for a guy
14:03like Josh Downs just from, like, a target perspective.
14:06You mentioned it. He's going to get targeted in the short area, especially on third downs as he's, like, kind of a rotational player.
14:13But I still think Downs' routes and snaps are coming up this year, and he will be targeted further down the field,
14:19which those are the three biggest variables for him having a breakout season.
14:23And I think when you look at Downs, you know, you look at his reception perception charts, like, he can win down the field.
14:30He's not just a short area slot receiver. And even dating back to, like, UNC, him and Drake May, and he talked
14:37about wanting to get back to this, you know, when earlier this season he had an interview where he's like, I want
14:43to get back to being, you know, the guy that I was early on in my career, like, as a college player
14:50where I was a high volume down the field player.
14:52And that's where him and Drake May really cooked in that, like, intermediate area on contested passes.
14:57I think Downs can do it, but they need him to do it, man, because if he's not winning down the field,
15:04this is an offense that's going to feel very tight with a quarterback coming off of an Achilles tear.
15:09Like, let's not forget he's coming off of an Achilles tear with a – maybe not taking snaps under center.
15:15By the way, Jonathan Taylor, they did not play a lot of under center in the second half of the season, and
15:22his efficiency fell down along with it. So they're definitely – not having Pierce at full operation here is tough for this
15:28team because it's just he's the guy that stretches the field on the outside.
15:32I'm so glad you mentioned the straw that is supposed to stir this drink.
15:36It's still Daniel Jones we're talking about. It is still Daniel Jones coming off of an Achilles tear.
15:42I am – you know, I don't know who else – who would they deploy downfield?
15:46It's not – I don't believe it's going to be Nick Westbrook-Akene, eh?
15:50Do they run – Laquan Treadwell? Well, I mean, Matt, I mean, is it Tyler Warren, the field stretcher?
15:56I don't even know if that's what you – I truly am very curious as to what Shane Steichen's going to cook
16:02up to make this offense work with the ingredients that we have right here right now.
16:07Last piece of news here, and this one's a little bit smaller, but I still want to discuss this one even though it's very small.
16:14Najee Harris is signing with the New York Giants.
16:17Mike Gerfola reported that today. Najee's coming off a torn Achilles injury, so there's that.
16:21Najee Harris, obviously, you know, we know who Najee is.
16:24He had the eye injury last season as well before the Achilles tear.
16:28It's been a tough, you know, 12 months for Najee Harris.
16:31We are going back farther than that to the fireworks incident on 4th of July.
16:35I get that. But, Ray, I do think – and you tell me.
16:39You push back on me if you think I'm wrong.
16:42I think that if you are a Cam Scadaboo bro and you're not a little bit worried about this, I think you're
16:49kind of sticking your head in the sands a little bit because the reporting from the Giants all offseason has been that
16:55they wanted to add to their backfield. They wanted that – they were in on Kenneth Walker as a pre-agent.
17:01They wanted Jeremiah Love to fall to them in the NFL draft.
17:04Let's be super clear. Najee Harris is several tiers down from those two players.
17:08I get that. But it also comes when in a preseason game they were mixing up the running backs, right?
17:14They're using a bunch of different guys. Cam Scadaboo's getting his work.
17:18He looks pretty good. But they're also not trying to trust him as the full deal workload guy.
17:23Then they go and sign Najee Harris who was a pretty well-regarded pass protector, has familiarity with Greg Roman's offense.
17:29Right after Tyron Tracy got Jackson Dart blown up on a pass protection issue.
17:33To me, I have just thought that Cam Scadaboo's ADP is kind of wildly high in the 40s.
17:38I think he belongs in the 50s because I feel like people are just penciling him in for the workload that he had last year, Ray.
17:46And I remain a little skeptical of that. So I don't think – we'll see.
17:50By the way, we'll see if Najee even makes a roster, obviously, what kind of shape he's in the whole deal.
17:56But to me, I just – maybe this is my own prior speaking.
18:00So again, please push back on me if you disagree.
18:03I think that Scadaboo is just a little bit – like he's a little bit too expensive for me.
18:09And this is kind of just part of that whole theme here.
18:12Yeah, I actually talked about Cam Scadaboo as a year two breakout running back for this year.
18:17But it wasn't saying that he was going to be a breakout.
18:21It was talking about, you know, what actually constitutes a breakout.
18:24Because I don't have Cam Scadaboo projected to be a thousand-yard rusher this year.
18:28I think his most impactful fantasy production that he's going to bring to the table, outside of getting his carries because he's
18:34going to get his Najee Harris or not, it's his work in the receiving game.
18:39Being an outlet for Jackson Dart. Using his incredible receiving profile.
18:42He did that at an incredible clip at Arizona State.
18:45But yeah, I mean, did we not listen to John Harbaugh talk about protection?
18:49And he said Jackson Dart absolutely should not have been hit.
18:52That should not have happened. That cannot happen. So whether it's because of Tyrone Tracy, they're telling us they were looking to bring somebody in anyway.
19:00I don't know about all that. I definitely think missing a block in a critical situation, getting your young quarterback put in
19:06the blue tent helps escalate that quest. But Najee Harris is there.
19:10He's going to touch a rock. Najee Harris isn't just in New York.
19:13If he makes this roster, Matt, he's going to be on the field.
19:17I'm not saying he's going to be a locked and loaded stud.
19:21He's going to be. But we just talked about gnats in the last segment.
19:25This is a big gnat right here in the backfield for Cam Scadaboo and his ceiling and upside.
19:30So I'm not going to push back on you at all.
19:33Because I was always a little bit pessimistic on the enthusiasm around Scadaboo being this elite, game-changing running back this year, here in year two.
19:41Yeah, again, I think people should remember what happened with Scadaboo as a starting running back for the New York Giants last
19:47year and why they might have wanted to kind of upgrade that position.
19:51He essentially had a high-volume workload from week three to week eight.
19:54And they were, the New York Giants, 142 running back touches during that span.
19:58That was second in the NFL behind only the Carolina Panthers at 169.
20:02So they ran the ball. They gave the ball to their running backs a lot.
20:07During that span, though, it wasn't like they were some dominant run game.
20:10They were 21st in running back rush success rate, EPA per rush, even 22nd.
20:15You know, there wasn't a lot of explosiveness either, 28 in explosive rushing rate.
20:19So it makes sense why they would want a little bit of an upgrade here.
20:23So, again, I'm not saying that Scadaboo, like, he's going to be a terrible pick or anything.
20:28But to me, I think he's more of a fifth-rounder than a fourth-rounder, which is why I just haven't really ended up with a lot of him.
20:36Yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you. All right, let's take our first quick break.
20:40We come back. We jump into the round four wide receivers.
20:43Guys, I'm definitely taking ahead of a player like Cam Scadaboo when it comes to the overall rankings.
20:49We will get into that right after this. All right, we're back.
20:52It is time to solve the wide receiver position in rounds four to six.
20:56As mentioned, this is a key area to get right this year.
21:00But not all these guys are going to be the right picks this year.
21:04So Ray Garvin and I, a little reception perception.
21:07Trust the Trinity. We're going to, you know, meet in the middle here.
21:10We're going to find out how you guys should be attacking this range of your drafts at the wide receiver position because
21:17I think it's critical to get right. And let's start off with, listen, like, we got about 13 guys to talk to today, Ray.
21:24So figure out if we can do this, okay?
21:26First one up with a Yahoo ADP in the fourth round.
21:30Jalen Waddle, 40th overall player right now. Listen, I have made it very clear.
21:34I'm very young on Jalen Waddle. People that listen to this podcast know I'm excited about Waddle.
21:39Glad to see he's back at practice. Okay? Good to see because I know the first thing that people say is, he's just going to get hurt, Harmon.
21:47He's just going to get hurt. And, you know, maybe he will.
21:50He already did get hurt. So not off to a great start.
21:54But he's back practicing in full in pads. People know what I think about Jalen Waddle.
21:59Ray, I'm curious what you think about Waddle in fantasy this year.
22:02I have him ranked, by the way, higher than this 41.
22:05I've got him, like, fringe top 25 type of player for me this year.
22:09Too high on Jalen Waddle? How are you feeling about this one?
22:13No, I feel really good, man. I feel really good.
22:16And when I'm looking at usage, one of the things that I really, a lot of times you see people, you know,
22:22put out a projection and then there's a static number, right?
22:25He's going to average 15 points per game, 13 points per game.
22:29You can look at historical usage and what a wide receiver does, what the team asks them to do.
22:35And you can develop a range. And I really like looking at a range, a range of outcome for a player like Jalen Waddle.
22:42And on the high end, you're talking top 10 historical percentile.
22:45That's what my top end, high end range is.
22:47And when I'm looking at the range of outcomes from his usage from last year, based on his 7.8 Trinity score, 7.4
22:54last year, I've got his high range at about 16 points per game for Jalen Waddle.
22:58That's high end range, which is a damn good wide receiver force for fantasy football.
23:03And then that median range outcome, about 13 points per game.
23:06Now, that doesn't take into account his, you know, his offense.
23:09It's not a projection number here. You can see on the screen, I've got some numbers on there as far as projections.
23:16But just his usage inside of this offense on a team that Bo Nix has thrown the ball, Matt, 600 times a
23:22year, the first two years of his career. They brought Jalen Waddle in to be a number one wide receiver.
23:28And when you look at just historically, based on that usage last year and how I measure things, I love the little boom, hit, bust, right?
23:36Like, what's the percent chance he's a 15-point-per-game player or more?
23:39And I believe on the screen, that's over a 30% chance to get you over 15 points per game, which lines up
23:45right in line with our range of outcome tools.
23:48So, this situation, the offensive trust in Bo Nix, whether you like him or not, and there's already, Cortland Sutton has come
23:54out himself to say, you know what? If I've got to take a little bit of a backseat because Jalen Waddle was
24:01here, then he said, I'm totally fine with that, right?
24:04Ultimate team player because, I mean, to a degree, he and Cortland Sutton do different things.
24:08So, I am totally with you on Waddle. And yes, he needs to stay on the field.
24:13I got it, folks. But that's everybody. I can say that about every single wide receiver in the NFL or player.
24:19You need to be on the field to be productive.
24:22Yeah, duh. We know that. But I'm not drafting with fear right now.
24:26I'm drafting on usage, opportunity. And Waddle, from the moment that he's been drafted out of Alabama, when he's on the field,
24:33he's pretty good at earning targets and usage. So, I'm sure what you scout and what you look at as far as
24:39his routes and how effective he is, it probably matches and is in line with how I feel about just his historical overall usage.
24:46Yeah. If I was a better podcast host, I would have been like, hey, Ray, can you give us like a just
24:52quick run through on the Trinity and what everything goes into it?
24:56Because I did forget to tee that off. So, I've spent too much time at the top of the show making fun
25:02of producer Colin instead of doing what producer Colin asked me to do, which is like, hey, Harmon, when you start this
25:09conversation, remember to ask Ray to give. So, for the uninitiated, since I screwed this up, just quick run through of what
25:15goes into the Trinity and how you calculate this.
25:18Quick run through. A combination of a lot of things that people talk about, but a lot of times don't really understand.
25:24Air yards, first downs, yards per route run, yak, target share.
25:28Like, I look at all those individual metrics and correlate those against fantasy success and blend it together into one number, right?
25:34Those things that really correlate to fantasy success, blend them together in one number so you can visualize what all that stuff
25:40actually means when you see the data, when you see the numbers, when you see the acronyms.
25:45Yeah, taking it into one really predictive score because all those things, like you said, correlate to fantasy football success, which is really great there.
25:53Obviously, for me, people know I'm charting routes, success rates, and most importantly, alignment pre-snap because that's, to me, what I think
25:59really matters for, honestly, Jalen Waddell and the next guy we were going to talk about here, trying to see how their
26:06role change is going to really impact their success from an individual route perspective and gathering targets.
26:10Because Waddell, as I've said many times, in Miami, he was the outside on-ball, you know, ex-receiver for a team that had
26:17a quarterback getting rid of the ball really fast.
26:20So that does diminish some of the overall statistical numbers in addition to the fact that, like, Denver is going to throw
26:26the ball, run more plays than Miami did last year for sure.
26:29For the first time in his career, Ray, Jalen Waddell is going to be like a movement player, you know, post-snap, pre-snap,
26:36the whole deal, getting more of those layup routes, finding ways into these explosive play situations.
26:41So I agree with you from an upside. When you said upside 16 points per game, do you do that off PPR or half PPR?
26:48Just remind you real quick. That's off of PPR.
26:51PPR. Okay, cool. So wide receiver 7 and 8, the last three seasons are Justin Jefferson and Nico Collins averaging about 16.4 to 16.3 PPR points per game.
26:59I agree with you that that is the upside case for Waddell, that I don't think people are accounting enough.
27:05Obviously, that's the upside case. It's the best range of outcomes, but there still is a median range there, too, which is
27:11why I really like what you do. So Ray and I are both in agreement that fourth round Jalen Waddell, pretty much
27:17absolute smash every single time that he gets there.
27:20Next guy up that we're going to talk about, Emeka Ibuka, is a little bit more interesting, Ray, because one, he is
27:26also dealing with an injury right now, potentially turf toe.
27:29We shall see what that whole deal is. I think he could be limited to start the season, but once he's healthy,
27:36Ray, this is another guy that I think is in a really good situation and an excellent breakout pick this year.
27:42ADP right now, 41st overall. Are you in? Are you out?
27:45How are we feeling about Emeka Ibuka? I'm still in.
27:48I'm looking at my clock because I saw that come out after we submitted all the stuff for the show notes, and
27:55I'm like, oh my gosh, don't let this turf toe be.
27:58But I'm in, and I get it, Matt. I think for so many people, it's hard to reconcile with how good he started off, right?
28:05Weeks one through eight, you're talking about a player, five touchdowns, two plus yards per route run, eight yards per target.
28:11I mean, the ADOP, 13 yards down the field, it truly looked like, and I know at some point we got to
28:18find somebody else to say this about. It felt like we had the next Puka Nakua type player out here, right?
28:24Just high target earner, awesome efficiency. And then we all know it cratered off, right?
28:28One touchdown over the next freaking half a season plus for the remainder of the season for Ibuka.
28:33But when you look inside of that, like what I really continue to stand 10 toes down on, toes no pun intended,
28:40Ibuka take mine, is that he still continued to have a 35% air yard share despite that dip.
28:45What cratered was the yards per route run, dropped from 2.11 down to less than one and a half yards per route run.
28:52The target rates fell a little bit in the touchdowns from five to one in that second half of the season.
28:58But you look at this offense, there was trust there.
29:01I've got his median range projection right around 1,000 yards.
29:04So still a really good player with an upside case of being a 16 point per game guy.
29:09If everything goes right for him. And you can see some of the other usage comps down there below.
29:15But you look at this offense. I like young Ted Hurst.
29:18I like him, Matt. But I'm not projecting him to come in and take significant work away from Ibuka as healthy.
29:24McMillan's a little bit banged up right now. I like Chris Godwin as a later round value.
29:29I'm not going to be scared of what happened at the back half of that season when the team just told me,
29:35hey, we're going to continue to commit to this guy.
29:38Let Mike Evans walk. And you got a new offensive coordinator in here.
29:42And in usage, could we not see his role change a little bit as far as where they line him up, how
29:49they deploy him, how they utilize him? There's still so much meat left on the bone with Ibuka.
29:54I don't know why some people talk about his story is written.
29:57We already know what kind of player he is because of what happened the second half of his rookie year.
30:03I'm not buying that for a second, Matt. No, I think you hit on the key point there, which is the role
30:10change for him, which, you know, there was a lot of variables that went into kind of the first half, second half
30:16splits in addition to his own injury, which is certainly true.
30:19Like this is backed up in his charting data that when I wrote about him in the rookie report in the first
30:2610 weeks of the season on RP, like he was much more effective than in the back half when he was playing through a hamstring injury.
30:33But production wise, his quarterback was also playing with an injury.
30:36The Bucs offensive line wasn't 100 percent healthy last year.
30:39Right now, it looks like it could be a top five unit in the NFL.
30:44But the other variable to raise that he had to play most of the season because Mike Evans was hurt in the X receiver role.
30:51He took in the games I chartered for him, 69 percent snaps outside, 64 percent snaps on the line of scrimmage as a prospect.
30:58I mean, you know this at Ohio State. He was more of like a big slot.
31:0381 percent of his snaps that I charted were off ball.
31:06And Zach Robinson saying that he's going to be the X receiver in this offense.
31:10It's the same thing with the waddle part of it.
31:13Like he's going to get more of the efficient looks like the the looks these guys that are running the routes off
31:20ball as the X receiver in motion. They're just have more of an access to lay up easier targets, efficient looks from the quarterback.
31:27And in this offensive system, explosive plays. This is a little bit reductive, Ray, but it's very similar to like what happened with Drake London.
31:34When Zach Robinson took over as the offensive coordinator in 2024 in Drake London's first two seasons under Arthur Smith, 85 and
31:4082.4 percent snaps on the line of scrimmage. The two seasons after that, 47 and 46.7 percent.
31:45And obviously we know which of the two better seasons for Drake London.
31:49It's 24 and 25. So I think that usage for a Buka.
31:53This is a guy that can win at all three positions, but will be maximized as that movement Z.
31:58So, again, 41st overall ADP. I know it's a little risky right now to make the click, Ray.
32:04But it sounds like this is one of the guys you and I think are is a really good fourth round pick.
32:10Got to have some conviction in this proxy. And let me just we play a proxy of a game.
32:16We don't none of us actually play fantasy football.
32:18Somebody else is playing the game of football. We play a proxy for a game.
32:23You got to have some conviction, man. And I'm just I get the apprehension, especially when you got Todd Bowles saying, I
32:29don't know if he'll be ready week one or not.
32:32I get that. But football players play. And if he's on the field doing what he does, he's probably going to be pretty doggone good, Matt.
32:39Yeah. And I kind of want to hear from someone else other than Todd Bowles, like what Mecca Buka's injury status is
32:46after Bowles famously said, Bucky Irving will be available sometime in the summer or fall, which like brother, two different seasons.
32:52Those are those are two different seasons. And then Bucky Irving's just like practicing in full and training camp.
32:58So I don't know what to make of the Bowles quotes part of this, but I'm hoping that this is on the optimistic side for a Mecca Buka.
33:06You mentioned you got to have conviction. You got to take a stand.
33:10You definitely have to have some conviction, Ray, to click Tedrow McMillan at the 44th overall pick in Yahoo ADP right now,
33:16because I'm sure and I know I've seen you post about McMillan.
33:20I know we both like the player. How could anybody not like the player?
33:24He's a great player. But you know what the first response is going to be?
33:28Quarterback Bryce Young. You're really going to take Bryce Young's number one receiver in the fourth round?
33:33Ray, are you taking Bryce Young's number one receiver in the fourth round?
33:37I am taking Bryce Young's number one wide receiver in the fourth round.
33:41And I'm not here. If you don't want to, then that's fine.
33:44Right. It's it's it's the usage profile here. You're talking about a rookie wide receiver that in 17 games, 93 percent route
33:50participation, 41 percent of the team's air yards. And it wasn't a player that got worse as the season got along.
33:57And they continued to feed him offensive rookie of the year.
34:00Let me hit you with a couple of numbers.
34:02Right. Look, let me hit you with some names right here with Ted Romo.
34:07They put it on the screen. Rookie wide receiver seasons with a Trinity score over 7.4, which is very, very, very good.
34:13You've got Puka Nakua, Malik Neighbors, Jamar Chase, Brian Thomas Jr., Justin Jefferson, Ladd McConkie, Jalen Waddle, and Ted Romo McMillan.
34:19So seven of those eight scored 14 plus points per game as a rookie McMillan, 12.6.
34:24Right. So when you're looking at his range of outcome for McMillan anywhere on a high end, if Bryce can get it together.
34:31And I know that's a big if you're talking about a 17 point per game type ceiling for McMillan.
34:36But at the median range, if he if if he just gets us one point per game more than he did last
34:42year and he's a 13 and a half, 14 point per game wide receiver.
34:47Is that elite? No. Is that league winning? No.
34:49But is that something that you can plug into your lineup and say, you know what?
34:54The day in the game that he does have two touchdowns.
34:57What I bet on is that usage. As long as you're continuing to get fed, I'll ride the variance, the roller coaster
35:04ride, because even some of the elite receivers have some games where you look up and you're like, damn, that's all I got.
35:10That's all I got this week. But you're counting on the things that you track, Matt, getting the roles.
35:16I know because I am a reception perception subscriber.
35:18A lot of dig routes for Ted Romo McMillan.
35:21Right. You're counting on that usage. You're counting on that usage.
35:24Flipping the script at some point. Bryce is a big question mark.
35:28What I don't question is this player's opportunity inside of this offense.
35:31Yeah. Ted Romo McMillan, you mentioned the dig routes for him, man.
35:35He was obviously used a decent bit on those routes.
35:38He had just over scroll, scroll, scroll. 17.5% of his routes were dig routes.
35:42Look at the producers got on the screen there even better.
35:45But 91.5% success rate on dig routes. That was the best among any player I charted last season.
35:50And Ted Romo McMillan even said in our Super Bowl conversation that was his favorite route to run.
35:56So what do you know? His favorite route to run is his best route.
36:00You love to see it backed up by the charting data there.
36:03Yeah. Ted Romo is a baller, dude. I mean, what did you say?
36:07The median range of outcomes. Like you said, 17 points per game was the ceiling.
36:11Yeah. 13 points per game. You know, I mean, again, like 13.6, that's wide receiver 21 over the last three years.
36:17It's like it would be a he's drafted wide receiver 19.
36:21That's maybe like the smallest of losses. And I think that is why McMillan's a good pick and why I have him ranked as wide receiver 19.
36:29And I'm kind of, you know, I'm not quite like so far ahead of ADP on him, but I'm within the range.
36:35I have him ahead of his overall ADP just because like, you know, I'm not, I'm not clicking a quarterback in round four.
36:42I'm not clicking camp Scadaboo or Travis each a Chan in the, in the fourth round.
36:46I'm, I'm rather, I'm telling you to take receivers in this range overall.
36:50But the other part of it too, is this, I do think McMillan has a pretty secure season long floor.
36:56Even if you don't believe in the Bryce Young variable because of the usage you mentioned there.
37:01And also Ray, this is another guy, maybe not as dramatic, but is in line for a pretty significant role change.
37:07You know, just like waddle, just like a Buka, the Panthers want to use him in the slot more.
37:13As I've said, they can't use him in the slot much less than he did over the last few really over last
37:19year, 15% of his snaps are in the slot last year.
37:22That was one of the lowest among all receivers that, you know, ran enough qualifying routes.
37:27If they just hit that thing to 25, you know, 22%, what if we double it 30% based on the preseason, he was in the slot a ton.
37:35Jalen Coker being a baller and being able to play to X receiver matters for this too.
37:40And just like, I know Ray that Bryce Young is Bryce Young and he's averaged what?
37:45Like 180 passing yards in his career. It's 190.
37:47It's not good. Okay. But I did have a pretty convincing conversation with Jeff Bell from football guys yesterday about this.
37:54And, you know, I think for Bryce Young, the physical tools are never going to be, you know, where, where they need
38:00to be, which is why he was a strange first overall pick.
38:04He's never going to get taller. His arms are going to be stronger.
38:07That being said, he is a guy who the game could slow down for him.
38:12You know, the mental side of it could pick up.
38:15And that is where quarterbacks do make that leap.
38:17So again, Bryce Young making that leap is, is okay.
38:20Well then you get Alex Smith, which we can have the conversation of, was that worth the first overall pick?
38:26But if he's like an Alex Smith type player, I think that's enough to get Tedrow McMillan, the football and Jalen Coker, the football.
38:33So yeah. I mean, it's, again, it's not the most comfortable click in the world, but I am in on him where he goes in the fourth round.
38:41Can I ask you a question about a reception perception and what you've seen?
38:45Because my eyes just immediately gravitate to the red, right?
38:48I'm like, oh my God, where was he red at?
38:51And I need him to be better downfield. I talked about a 40% air yard share, but like in, in, in your
38:58opinion, I mean, can Bryce get him better down the field?
39:01Those post routes, I'm looking at the nine routes, even to a degree, Matt, the slant, right?
39:06But pickings really started to up at this past year.
39:09And you're like, man, he's just killing on these slant routes.
39:12Like in your opinion and reception perception, like can Bryce help him in those areas?
39:16You know, and honestly, I think this is an area where Tedrowa just needs to get better too, because this was the
39:23reason I didn't have him as I had him as the, obviously Travis Hunter was kind of like a wild card.
39:29I had him as, you know, he was, if he was going to play wide receiver, I think he could end up
39:35being the best receiver in this class. I had him ranked ahead of Tedrow McMillan for that reason.
39:41But, you know, if you put Travis Hunter to the side, he was my top ranked guy, but I didn't necessarily have
39:47him in that tier of like the Malik neighbors is or the Drake London's as a prospect, because I think the two
39:53areas that Tedrowa did like where he just needs to get better is separating down the field specifically against press man coverage
40:00and like quick releases into these slant routes. Like you're like, you're saying, I mean, Drake London, he's been able to not
40:06just, you know, dunk on people down the field, which is another area where McMillan quietly was a little bit volatile in contested catch situations.
40:14Like he wasn't one of the better contested catch receivers I charted last year.
40:18That's an area that he does need to improve as well.
40:21But again, this is almost maybe optimistic in a way here, Ray, because I think he can get better at those things.
40:27I don't know if he will, but I think he can.
40:31And if he does, well, it doesn't really matter about the Bryce Young part of it because like Tedrowa can just do that on his own.
40:38So I think that you could kind of take that both ways and that maybe this will always be a thing that
40:45keeps him as a good, not elite number one receiver.
40:48Right. But it's also part of it too, that if he doesn't get better in that area, if he does get better
40:54in that area, then it's talking about like, we can take Bryce Young along for the ride too.
40:59Okay. Appreciate it, man. That, I mean, that, that helps, right?
41:02Cause I'm just, I'm just looking at usage. What do you got?
41:06Right. Percentages usage. And this is why what you do is so valuable because that helps me ground some things.
41:12Like if he can get better at that, then I feel better about that upper projectile 17 point band.
41:17If not, then it's probably in between there somewhere, right?
41:20Less than 17, but hopefully right around that 13 and a half point per game range for, for McMillan.
41:26I think that the kind of bow to put on the McMillan conversation here is that, yeah, there are definitely ways where
41:32he could fall a little bit below his wide receiver, 1980 P, but even if you, like he's a small, like lost player, I think.
41:40And I do think there's a possibility that if Bryce Young is better in this offense is just like, they're a little
41:46bit more throw happy this year, which I think is possible.
41:49They spread the field a little bit more. There's a chance that he can be that big win.
41:54Like the fact that you think he has that 17 point per game ceiling, that is pretty significant to the upside case for him.
42:01So small loss, big win. That's again, that's why he's going in the fourth round here.
42:06You mentioned your, I might get drawn to some red routes in the reception perception route tree.
42:11Not going to see a lot of those for the next player that we're going to discuss here.
42:16Lad McConkie, 46th overall ADP on Yahoo right now.
42:19I think that it's pretty easy to explain a down season away for Lad McConkie last year and get him right back up into this fourth round range.
42:27But Ray, when you see him on the board, 46th overall, is this a guy you're clicking?
42:32Can I just say, and I would hate to do this to my own thing, the Trinity, but I think there's some
42:39more upside than the range of outcome tool is even printing for Lad McConkie on here.
42:43I mean, you see the tweet on the screen.
42:46He ran more routes than he did as a rookie, but somehow got fewer targets.
42:50And there are a lot of things that happen inside of Los Angeles.
42:54The offensive line, which I don't even want to talk about right now.
42:58We all know what was going on with the O-line, the coordinator, right, Matt?
43:02But yes, I want Lad. I am big time in on Lad McConkie this year in this offense.
43:07Big time in on Justin Herbert, the offense overall.
43:10I don't like seeing the red things on the screen right now when we're looking at that offensive front.
43:15But yeah, man, I'm very much in on a Lad McConkie bounce back this year for a lot of the reasons that
43:22we've discussed, a lot of the reasons you talked about on other shows.
43:26I know we are aligned right here. Yeah, just for people that aren't, you know, chronically online and following every bit of
43:32injury news, which by the way, congratulations for you guys.
43:35Your mental health is probably better for it. Tyler Biotich, the center, was carted off today with an injury.
43:41So we're going to keep an eye on that.
43:43He was a big signing for them in free agency.
43:46So we'll keep an eye on that. Plus, Rashawn Slater might be out for a couple of weeks here after his knee injury, flared up in training camp.
43:54Remember, he's coming off a torn patella tendon. But the good news is that the Chargers did get some depth in here this year.
44:01Jake Slaughter, their rookie, has been kind of the backup at center in training camp.
44:06And Trey Pipkins has been the starting left guard.
44:08You know, you can say, oh, Trey Pipkins, not that great.
44:11But, you know, at least they got some depth at center because it was a massive drop off last year with Bradley Bozeman out there.
44:19So we'll see. We're going to keep an eye on those injuries for the Los Angeles Chargers.
44:24But let me ask you this, Ray, because you mentioned like you think there's more upside to Ladd McConkie than what the range of outcomes tool compares there.
44:32I agree. Like, I think he's he's a baller and could be one of those guys that I don't know if he's
44:38going to go full Jackson Smith and Jigbo. Right.
44:41But he's one of those guys who's a slot mostly player and becomes an outside receiver who's winning on these downfield routes.
44:47Like, I think we've seen enough evidence that he can be that guy in the NFL as long as his body holds up.
44:54Right. Like I have a player comparison to a reception perception.
44:57He does kind of compare a little bit to Tyler Lockett, which Lockett's a guy that, you know, dealt with a lot
45:04of injuries, probably couldn't handle 140, 150 targets in a season.
45:07I get that. But what do you think the range of outcomes tool would have printed for Ladd McConkie after year one?
45:13Probably a higher range of outcomes. Right. And how do you square like when you're doing your analysis?
45:19How do you kind of square one season to another?
45:22So I guess this is a philosophical conversation because you can look at things in totality.
45:26The range of outcome tool in which we presented some of the screenshots today is week one through 17.
45:32You could segment it down. And sometimes I like to break it down, Matt, because a season is like multiple seasons inside of seasons.
45:39Things happen. Things change. And when I look at Ladd last year, weeks 10 through 18, and I know we stopped playing
45:45in week 17, but talking about a player sub 15% target share.
45:49I just, that's not wide receiver. That's not even, there's nowhere close to a team's wide, like something was off in LA in that room.
45:56And I'm just, I'm not carrying that forward. I'm not saying that he has to have his greatest usage profile.
46:02And now that's all I want to stick on.
46:05Some of the bad sticks in and we're showing that here.
46:08That's why the highest range is only 14.8 points per game, but I'm just not buying that with him being healthy on
46:14the field, you're talking about a sub 15% target share guy in 2026.
46:18So that alone, when I'm looking at the numbers, I look at the media and like, okay, if he can get me that right.
46:25And then not be a sub 15% target share guy for eight freaking games of the season, then just logically he will be better.
46:32Keenan Allen is gone. I don't know what's going on in the tight end room, but what I do know is I
46:38think pretty objectively, he's the best receiver on that team playing with one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL.
46:44We like the environment that that's, you got to kind of break down the season inside the season as well.
46:50Yeah. I kind of, and maybe this is just me, which is weird.
46:54Cause I'm not like this in every area of my life, but I tend to skew a little optimistic with players.
47:00Sometimes it's like, if you showed me a great season, I believe that that player is in there somewhere.
47:06And it's like, don't overcomplicate it here. He's shown that ceiling.
47:09You said it. He's the best receiver on the team.
47:12I think pretty clearly. Justin Herbert is a great quarterback.
47:15Mike McDaniel is a great offensive coach. Like let's not overcomplicate this thing here too much.
47:19Like all the variables are pointing in one specific direction.
47:22So top five comps for Aladdin McConkey's rookie season in the reception perception player comparison tool, 2016, Stefan Diggs, 2019, Tyler Lockett, 2019, Anthony Miller.
47:30That's a, that's a, what if story right there.
47:32If he had ever had his head on straight 2019 Keenan Allen, 2025, Devante Smith.
47:37So a lot of good players there and then Anthony Miller.
47:40So it just kind of like, that's the range.
47:42Could he become Stefan Diggs or is he more Tyler Lockett?
47:46And I think even if he's Tyler Lockett in the fourth round, I'm probably okay with that, but that's where we're talking
47:52about hitting that, you know, 15, 14 point per game season as opposed to, yeah, true, true takeover year.
47:58So I think we're both in on Aladdin McConkey.
48:00Honestly, it sounds like we're, we're pretty cool with this, this entire fourth round of wide receivers, but will we feel the same about the fifth round players?
48:08We're going to get into those guys right after this.
48:11All right, we're back. Let's get into the fifth round wide receivers and let's start off with a guy.
48:17We're kind of the same song and dance every year with Mr.
48:20Garrett Wilson, 51st overall ADP here on Garrett Wilson.
48:23Ray, we know this guy's good. Okay. Um, like there's, trust me, there's nothing tilting about popping his name in the player comparison tool.
48:30I've mentioned here a couple of times and seeing like, oh, look, Garrett Wilson compares to all the best receivers in football.
48:37Like, that's great. Why doesn't Garrett Wilson produce like all the best wide receivers in football?
48:41Well, uh, I, I, it's hard, hard to say, man.
48:44I, I don't know what it could be. Um, could be, oh, wait, he plays for the jets and you know, annually
48:51there's quarterback issues and or offensive play caller issues.
48:53Well, how do you feel about Garrett Wilson this year in the Frank Reich offense with Geno Smith, Ray Garvin at 51st overall.
49:00I don't like how you added the Frank Reich, Geno Smith offense at the end.
49:04So I'm just going to, well, I know Matt, this is, if there were a poster child for, I I'm almost positive.
49:11The very first Trinity video that I ever did back in 23, he was on the thumbnail.
49:16It was like him and Chris Olave. And I'm just going to start with the positive and I'm cherry picking because I've
49:22only got six weeks of data to work with.
49:25Okay. Yeah. But in those first six weeks, I mean, you're talking about a player who he had his highest usage stretch
49:31of his career, full stop air yard share. Got it.
49:34Target shared. Got it. Route participation. Had it. You see him on the chart.
49:38There are headshots of other elite wide receivers in that range.
49:41I mean it with Justin Fields and he's no great quarterback at all.
49:45The usage is always there for Garrett Wilson. Listen, it wasn't Garrett Wilson leading the league and routes run for like two years in a row.
49:53We know he can play, but it's just the production, the production, the production is always disappointing.
49:58We're talking about a player who I'd love to hit him at 15 points per game.
50:02Just one time. Just get to 15. Garrett Wilson.
50:05Listen, and I've got him projected right there. His median range of outcome based on that small sample size, right?
50:11You're looking at about 15.4 points per game with a high end range.
50:15If he were to continue what he has done historically, I mean at ridiculous 18 point per game range.
50:20Elephant in the room and the thing that I will address and I really can't knock you is Geno Smith.
50:26Is that quarterback? Frank Wright offense. But I kind of sit back and say, Geno might be one of the better QBs
50:33that he's had in some time right here. And you look at the other pieces of the offense, Matt.
50:38I know. Matt, it's a low bar to clear.
50:41You look at everybody else and I'm like, who's going to take it?
50:45Who else? Listen, I get it. I remember doing the same thing with Allen Robinson over the years.
50:50It's like, well, Andy Dalton might be the best quarterback he's ever played with.
50:54Like Nick Foles, maybe the best quarterback he's ever played with.
50:57And you do that coping every single year, the whole deal.
51:00Yeah. Listen, I get it. I think the funny thing, though, about Garrett Wilson is, and maybe this is like torture funny, not haha funny.
51:08What you put up on the screen there, the Trinity, the target share and everything like, yeah, man, like the usage was
51:14there and he was crushing it last season. I think people forget this even in an offense with freaking Justin Fields because
51:20he was in this awesome role last season where like Tanner Angstrand, not a perfect offensive coordinator.
51:25I get it. The run game was not well designed.
51:28Honestly, it was a really well designed passing game, but they didn't even fit the quarterback.
51:33Probably not. What a weird team. However, he had him running the fewest nine routes on a rate percentage of his entire career.
51:40Did, uh, get, did Tanner Angstrand with Garrett Wilson.
51:42He had him take the highest percentage of snaps off the line of scrimmage.
51:47Like that usage change that we're talking about for like, Oh, Joe Waddle, Emeka Buka.
51:51That's what happened for Garrett Wilson last year. And it, we were seeing, this is my point.
51:56This is like what I'm talking about. Why it's so matters so much because then, yeah, he has the 34% target share,
52:02even with a bad quarterback and a bad offense because he's just getting hammered.
52:06The football with these layup opportunities. And now I was like, well, I don't know if that's going to happen with Frank Reich.
52:13The one thing I do know though, because I actually think Ray, the Frank Reich variable bothers me a little bit more than the Geno Smith variable.
52:21And maybe that's stupid, but I think Geno at this point in his career could still like get the number one receiver of the football enough.
52:29But I just don't know what the offense is going to look like.
52:32The last time we saw Frank Reich in the NFL in 2023, it didn't look good.
52:37It was pretty strict, like static 11 personnel, which is kind of the offense that Garrett Wilson was playing in prior to Tanner Engstrom being there.
52:45So that bothers me a little bit. But the one good thing though, and we were joking about this, unfortunately, off air here.
52:51At one point, this offseason was like, man, the Jets quietly added a lot of pass catching talent.
52:57Like maybe Garrett Wilson's target share comes down. Well, Omar Cooper's not really ready to contribute right now.
53:02He's running with the backups. Kenyon Sadiq is hurt.
53:05Aidy Mitchell, you know, he's Aidy Mitchell. Like, I mean, whatever.
53:08Garrett Wilson, I think, is still going to have a massive target share.
53:12It's just, you know what, the floor and ceiling combination might be pretty tight for him.
53:16And I just want to quickly, all targets aren't created equal, right?
53:20Because in my projection model, I have him at 159 targets, right?
53:23But only 1,200 yards. You give Puk and Nakua 160 targets, it's 1,600, 1,700 yards for that player.
53:28And that just lets you know that all volume isn't created equal.
53:32You want the volume, you want the high target rate, but there has to be a level of efficiency there for a player to really hit that peak.
53:40I'm just, I'm real, you think I'm, give me 15 points per game, Garrett.
53:44Do that one time because you're being fed a tremendous amount of volume.
53:48I do think Frank Wright is a little bit of a problem, but that's the difference, right?
53:53Like, yes, I want the high 30% target share, but I need the efficiency to follow along with it.
53:59Yeah, he's wide receiver 21 and ADP. I'm going to have him as my wide receiver 21.
54:04Like, I just kind of want to be in line with ADP on Garrett Wilson.
54:08This is a guy, the next one up here, Terry McLaurin, 54th overall ADP on Yahoo.
54:13This is somebody from a positional standpoint I wanted to be higher on.
54:16But, Ray, a little bit nervous that the Laramie Tunsil injury is looming over this entire thing.
54:21Stephon Diggs is here now to take some of those layup targets away.
54:25Terry went from a guy that I was targeting heavily in this range to now a guy that I'm not going to say I'm full on avoiding.
54:33I'm actually from an overall standpoint just because I'm higher on all these receivers.
54:37Higher than the overall ADP market on Terry McLaurin.
54:40But somebody that I went from, like, hammering in this range to just kind of, like, considering in this range.
54:46Where are you on Terry? Terry. Yeah, I think the thing that really jumps out to me is look at that ceiling.
54:52Right? We're talking about a median for Garrett Wilson at 15.
54:55And the ceiling here for McLaurin is around 14 points per game.
54:5915 points per game based on his usage. Right?
55:01In 24 with JD5 during his rookie year, you're talking about a player who had 13 touchdowns.
55:06Last year, three touchdowns. The injury, the offense was a mess.
55:10I want to be in on him more because I think McLaurin is a good player.
55:14But, you know, 80 catches, 10, 20, seven touchdowns, that's fine.
55:18It's not difference making. It's not I have to have him.
55:21It's kind of like he's in a range where, like, if there's somebody else you can go there.
55:26If a running back had kind of fallen. Like, I like him.
55:29I do think the addition of Diggs and Okonkwo complicate McLaurin's outlook a little bit more than maybe people want to admit.
55:36The Diggs one especially, dude. Because, yeah, I mean, I love your range of outcomes there for him as the ceiling is like 15 points per game.
55:44Which, by the way, over the last three seasons, Mike Evans, 15.6.
55:47Rasheed Rice, 14.9. That's wide receiver 11 to 12.
55:50That is probably you're looking to maybe get him in the back half wide receiver one range if you're Terry McLaurin.
55:56Which I still think is possible, right? But it involves a lot of factors here that I think get a little bit
56:03more complicated after the Diggs addition and the Laramie Tunsil injury.
56:06Because Terry McLaurin, he's top five in the NFL in area yards per target over the last three seasons.
56:11And that's going to be harder to get those passes to hit without the all-star left tackle in the mix here.
56:17Especially now that, like, I do think David Blau coming in here, we could see a similar situation with what we just talked about with Garrett Wilson.
56:25Where he went from this kind of, like, static boundary receiver to a move-around player.
56:30Because nobody had more static usage than Terry McLaurin under Cliff Kingsbury.
56:33It's just all outside left wide receiver and just kind of hang around over there.
56:38So it will get more dynamic in that sense.
56:40But the slot reps, the reps off the line of scrimmage, I kind of think those will go more towards Stephon Diggs now.
56:47So the usage will be better for McLaurin from a pre-sap standpoint.
56:50But not quite to the degree, Ray, where, again, I thought a month ago he was like, yeah, hammer him at this ADP every single time.
56:58He should be going, you know, four or five wide receiver spots higher than this.
57:02Now I think he's just kind of, like, appropriately priced.
57:05Well, I think that's why you and I, I mean, when Diggs signed there, we didn't even talk about this, you know, via text or anything.
57:13But I saw you tweeting about Diggs because I'd already been talking about Diggs as well.
57:18We had both been saying he's still a really good wide receiver.
57:21And I do think that that, and I forgot about Tunsil.
57:24That combined with Tunsil is probably what's going to keep McLaurin from hitting that 15-point-per-game ceiling and having another solid season.
57:30But not, not, I don't know if he's getting right there.
57:34The ceiling projections, 1111. I mean, that'd be a great outcome if he bounced back from a touchdown standpoint, which difficult, not sticky.
57:40And Diggs is really good still, still a really good player.
57:44Yeah, and I think that's what's good about the, I don't think he's going to go downside fully, like 11.6 points per game.
57:50I think that would be pretty disappointing. But, like, the expected being 13.3, I think that's really helpful when we're looking in
57:57this range of guys because there are other players, you know, and look, they're going around earlier.
58:02I get that. Where the ceiling is higher and the floor maybe, you know, might be a little bit lower, right?
58:08You know, I think the floor is lower on maybe a guy like Jalen Waddell or Mecca Abuka, but we're trying to hit home.
58:15If you're looking and shopping in the fifth round, you're trying to hit home runs.
58:19Terry probably now is a little bit less of a home run than he would have been for me, you know, like I said, a month ago.
58:27So when we're trying to differentiate this name of this group of wide receivers, like none of it, we haven't hit on
58:34one Ray where we're like, don't draft him. We like all this range, but Terry's maybe the guy that fits more in
58:40that kind of, you know, maybe not the biggest hit in the world if that's what you're shopping for in this range.
58:46The next player going off the board in Yahoo ADP could potentially be that big hit, a fifth round wide receiver.
58:53Well, two wide receivers from now. I really screwed my T's up there.
58:56But one of the next guys that we're going to discuss on the other side of this break could be potentially that big hit.
59:03But will he be? We'll get into that right after this.
59:07All right, we're back. Let's get a little deeper into the fifth round here at the wide receiver position.
59:12And let's start off with another old familiar face.
59:15That's Devontae Adams, 56th overall ADP on Yahoo right now.
59:18I mean, Ray, what a fascinating season last year for Devontae Adams where a whole lot of touchdowns, not a ton of yards.
59:24I am really curious. I have my thoughts on where he is from like the aging curve perspective and everything like that.
59:31But I'm just really curious. What does the Trinity say about what kind of was, I don't know, like a strange usage season for Adams last year?
59:39Like I know he's going to check a lot of boxes, but where are we at with Devontae Adams fifth round pick here in the year 2026?
59:47Yeah, ironically, ironically, it's pretty close to where he was last year.
59:50His expected range of outcome is right at 12.9 points per game.
59:54You're talking about a player who had a 23% touchdown rate per reception last year.
59:58It's just, I mean, he was just on a crazy tear.
60:01Led the league in touchdown catches and he only played, what, 13, 14 games?
60:05The offense is great. Matthew Stafford is phenomenal. There's not even a question about his role.
60:10He's the number two receiver. He's great in the red zone.
60:13The usage is propped up a lot by his involvement in the red zone.
60:17It's the touchdowns. I still have projected for him.
60:20I think he's the only player that we'll talk about and one of the few players that I actually have projected for
60:26double digit touchdowns in sub 900 receiving yards for Devontae Adams.
60:30Now, had he played the full 17, Matt, isn't that weird, right?
60:33Had he played the full 17, he would have gone over 1,000.
60:37But age, I don't look at age, so I don't really know.
60:40I'm interested to your take on that, like how much of that decline can we expect?
60:45But, you know, 12.9 to I don't know if I would go ceiling at 16, 7, maybe that 14.8 upside ceiling for Adams.
60:52But it's it's touchdowns and a good offense for Devontae.
60:54So funny, too, because I guess my how we could really hit from a ceiling perspective would be maybe the contingent upside if Puga Nakua ever misses time.
61:03And we did see actually one game of him without Puga Nakua.
61:06And if you look at the fantasy points, it's like, oh, 24 half PPR fantasy points in week seven against the Jacksonville Jaguars.
61:13Like that. Yeah, that was without Puga Nakua. He hit that contingent upside.
61:17Then you realize he had five catches, 35 yards and three.
61:20Count them three touchdowns in that game is like, well, that actually didn't answer any questions about whether he could be like
61:26a bell cow receiver at this point. Made up term by Andrew Barry, but a bell cow receiver at this point in the career.
61:33If Puga Nakua got hurt. Look, I mean, there's no question Adams is a declining player from his peak.
61:39I mean, but that being said, he is probably or at least he has a really good argument to be the best
61:45receiver of the reception perception era 2014 to current when I've been working on receivers.
61:50He has been one of the peak players position.
61:52So he's declined off that peak. There's no doubt about that.
61:56Like that's not even an interesting conversation. He can still do some of the things they want him to do on the breaking routes.
62:03He's just not going to be like, to me, I don't know if he could.
62:07He wouldn't slip into Puga Nakua's role at this point.
62:10Right. If Puga Nakua was to get hurt. And to me, Ray, again, it's not that I dislike Adams.
62:15Adams, it's just he's the guy I have clicked on probably the less the least in this range, because to me, just
62:22I don't know if there's like a real ceiling hit for him.
62:25Whereas I do see that with the next two guys and even one more guy that we're going to talk about in
62:32this range of wide receivers for Adams. Like he kind of needs to run back the same season that he had last
62:38year to be a massive hit, which is counting on, you know, outlier touchdowns.
62:42And it's counting on the entire Rams ecosystem to hold up, you know, offensive line, aging quarterback Puka.
62:48The Rams are very fragile. Adams's case for fantasy, I think, is also a little fragile, too.
62:53I mean, can he be one of those receivers?
62:55And I'm using a different position. You know, those running backs that they're never going to get 700 yards, 800, 900 yards,
63:02but they just in the goal line. They're getting the carries.
63:05And, you know, you look up and the running backs got nine touchdowns, but they don't do anything else for you.
63:11They don't catch pass that. It feels like he's kind of goal line vulture.
63:15He's Matt Asiata. I want to disrespect. I was going to say, but he's so much better than one.
63:21I didn't even want to say that name, but you get the point, right?
63:25Like there's not going to be elite volume. It's Puka.
63:28You are betting on the outliers touchdowns with Adams, but I like him.
63:31He's good. He's still good. He's still good, but.
63:34He's still good. Of course. Yeah. He's still good.
63:37I just, again, I've just prioritized a little bit younger, less age.
63:40Because there's also, yeah. What if the, here's the thing with wide receiver age cliffs.
63:45I think the rules, there's really no rules at this position.
63:48Guys like Adams and ironically, all the players we've talked about, Diggs, Keenan Allen, they can still produce as their careers go on because they're elite technicians.
63:56All three of those guys were that player at their peak and they remain that player even as the physical decline happens.
64:02But Adams' role is always going to lean into that extra receiver stuff, press man coverage.
64:07And if he does take a step back this coming season, I think that's another risk in addition to the fact that
64:13you're kind of counting on running hot on touchdowns or everything.
64:16So I just have prioritized younger players that have a bit wider range of outcomes in this area of the draft.
64:23One of those players, by the way, is the next one we're going to discuss.
64:27Luther Burden. 59th overall ADP on Yahoo. So funny, by the way.
64:30Just, this is a quick, quick, quick little tangent.
64:33It is really funny, Ray, how my entire timeline the last couple of weeks has been like, oh, Luther Burden's hurt.
64:39Can't wait to take the ADP discount on Luther Burden.
64:42Now he's been hurt. He's literally dropped one spot in Yahoo ADP between this week or last week and this week.
64:48Okay? So I know you guys can't be like, well, on this sharper platform, he's actually falling.
64:53Okay, well, here in the real world where real people draft, all right, he's falling one spot.
64:58He actually hasn't fallen at all. There's been no ADP discount.
65:01Can't believe you guys didn't buy the dip on Luther.
65:04Okay. All right. Whatever. 58th overall ADP last week.
65:0759th overall ADP this week. Great. I got my stupid little tangent out of the way.
65:12This is the, I actually, by the way, 58th overall ADP even before this injury.
65:16I think this was like the best platform to draft Luther Burden on because this I think is a pretty good ADP on Burden.
65:23One that I'm actually even still ahead on despite the injury.
65:26So I've yapped enough here, Ray. I've done the dumbest voice maybe I've ever done on the show.
65:31What do you think? You like Luther Burden this year or what?
65:35Please take the mic for me. First of all, I like the voice, but I love Luther Burden.
65:40And I'm going to just, this is what I'm going to just give the people.
65:45Matt, I'm going to just give the people what they want.
65:48I'm not messing around with no expected range of outcome.
65:51I ain't messing around with no median. Get that 966 yards out of there.
65:55Historical usage comps. If he hits his high end ceiling for Luther Burden, give the people what they want.
66:00Amon Ross St. Brown 2022. 146 targets. 106. Don't do this.
66:04106 receptions. 1161 and 6. 16 points per. I'm giving the people what they want.
66:08I have stayed away from the Amon Ross Burden stuff.
66:11I didn't put this in here. I just ran the numbers and boop it, printed it out.
66:16It's Amon Ross St. Brown high income. That's top 10 percentile outcome for Burden, but you're talking about 97 catches, 1259, and nine people will love it.
66:24I mean, and that's what people are expecting. That's what people are expecting.
66:28Do I expect that from a median standpoint? No, I don't.
66:31I think he's closer to right at that thousand yard range.
66:34If he got me 966 and 6, I'm loving it.
66:37More importantly, you know, 50% chance to be over 13 points per game.
66:41Cool. Like, I'm good with that for a second year receiver, folks.
66:44Like, give him some time to bake and develop.
66:47He didn't have a full offseason last year. He doesn't have a full offseason this year.
66:52But I like the talent, like the player, and the usage should be there.
66:56I mean, and he's in the right offense and the right ecosystem for him, too.
67:00Yeah, in my player comparison tool, there is a Alon Ross St.
67:04Brown comp, but it's not one of the top ones.
67:06Okay, okay. It's just a moderate comp. Okay, we sort him by elite match, strong match, moderate, and then loose.
67:12He's in the 2023 Alon Ross St. Brown is in the moderate comp, but it shows you the bucket that we're shopping.
67:19The top three comps, by the way, 2020 Robert Woods, 2024 Stefan Diggs, 2022 Chris Godwin.
67:23Like, that's a pretty cool combination of players, too, for Luther Burton.
67:27And I think it's the kind of the right role for him as well, you know, where it's like, hey, this guy,
67:33he's going to be kind of a slot-based player.
67:36But he can win after the catch like a Robert Woods, like a Chris Godwin.
67:40But also, you want to line him up against man coverage and run real deal routes like Stefan Diggs did?
67:46Yeah, he can do that, too. Like, there's so much to like about Luther Burton's game.
67:51Injury is definitely a concern. Like, he's been banged up now throughout the course of his NFL career, even dating back to college as well.
67:58He is one of those guys where it's on my radar.
68:01It's like, man, he just moves different. All the guys are just like, man, he moves different.
68:06That translates to he gets hurt all the time because the human body can't move like that.
68:11That is a little something that's on my radar.
68:14Okay? But at the same time, I still think Luther Burton is a great pick in this range.
68:19I like my answer to the Bears has just been, yes, take them all.
68:23This offense is going to be really awesome this year, Luther Burton included.
68:27So, yeah, I'm certainly not going to be here to rain on the Luther Burton parade.
68:32And like I said, 58th overall ADP on Yahoo.
68:34I haven't ranked as the 49th overall player. So, I'm still saying, like, be ahead of ADP on Luther Burton.
68:40Really exciting player that should be back. Sounds like he should be back by week one.
68:45So, yeah, Luther Burton's definitely a guy that I am in on taking in this range.
68:50Let's get into the round six wide receivers here, Ray.
68:53This is an interesting group as well and still kind of fits in the same bucket.
68:57DJ Moore, 61st overall ADP on Yahoo Drafts. And, Ray, this is one of the guys I've just changed my mind on the hardest.
69:04And, honestly, it's been a lot of deep diving into my own data here, Ray, because I was initially looking at DJ
69:11Moore and being like, ah, is he declining? He hasn't played as well in the last two years.
69:16And then, like, I ran a whole test study on some of my own route metrics and just sort of trying to
69:22quantify something I was talking about with Nate on Football 301 about a month ago now maybe.
69:27It feels like a month. It was probably like last week.
69:31Where just I think DJ Moore was really miscast in Ben Johnson's offense and really misused.
69:35And the study I ran, I think, really found that out.
69:38And I think the routes that he's really good on, they're the routes that Joe Brady wants to run from the boundary receiver here.
69:45So DJ Moore has gone from a guy that, like, I wasn't sure I was going to be in on this range
69:52to now being a guy that I'm actually ahead of ADP on by a few positional spots.
69:57And his ADP is also rising as well. I love it.
70:00I love it. I really don't have a ton to add besides that I agree with you.
70:05And, you know, sometimes we were talking about it earlier.
70:08You're like, you don't want to complicate things. And this is beyond Keon Coleman in a walking boot.
70:13It's beyond all this other stuff. This is a player that I do think there was a point last year where, like, these, Matt, you know it, man.
70:21You talk to these NFL athletes. They're people just like us, right?
70:25And there was a point where it did feel like DJ Moore probably knew I'm not going to be around, right?
70:31They drafted these two young receivers. They got a freaking tight end in the building.
70:35And it wasn't just the DJ Moore thing. Olamide Ziki has got packing as well.
70:40So they definitely had a plan to transition this offense elsewhere.
70:43And I will continue to say it. I don't want to make the same parallels of Josh Allen getting his step on
70:49Diggs back in 2020 because I just think Diggs was a little better of a player at that stage of his career than Moore is now.
70:57But this will work. And I know it was just one preseason game.
71:01But what DJ Moore wants to do, and Joe Brady's had him.
71:04His 2,000-yard seasons came with the E hat. Joe Brady was there calling the plays with DJ Moore, with Josh Allen, in
71:11an offense that everybody, me, you, Yahoo, and Vegas expects to be one of the best offenses in the NFL.
71:17Like, you saw my numbers. I'm much more bullish on DJ Moore for this upcoming season.
71:21I'm very much in on Moore. And I'll be honest with you.
71:25This is the situation change that Trinity doesn't really account for.
71:28Because if I just took his raw usage from last year and plugged that into, all right, he's going to be exactly what he was at Chicago.
71:36It doesn't look like this. I'm just being totally true.
71:39The high-end range was like 12 points per game if I just took what he did last year.
71:44But the environment change changes everything as well. Yeah, that's the hardest thing to do is the environment change, especially.
71:50Just again, like I said, I think this route tree that he's going to be running here, like we're seeing on the
71:56screen, the route tree he ran last year, you see it's a lot of dig routes, it's a lot of out routes.
72:03And those are two of his least effective patterns, where he's really good running the nine route, running the curl route, running the slant route.
72:10And if you look at Joe Brady's traditional X receiver, they're going to run a lot of those routes, get him in space on the slants.
72:18Josh Allen loves to throw those deeper stop routes.
72:20DJ Moore runs those really well. So I think there's actually at least one more, maybe even two more good seasons in the bag here for DJ Moore.
72:29So he's someone that I was kind of like, I don't know if I'm going to be drafting him to, he is
72:35going off the board as the 62nd overall player, 61st overall player.
72:38I have him in the 40s actually. So I'm really in on DJ Moore this year.
72:43Last guy to talk about before we get to break here, Christian Watson, wide receiver, off the board 26, 26, 66 to overall ADP.
72:50I'm curious what you think about Christian Watson here as a sixth round pick.
72:54Yeah. Another thing that I just want to point out, right?
72:57Each one of these players, their usage is not scored against the league.
73:01Okay. It's scored against that team in that environment.
73:04So you'll see Watson and 7.5 might be one of the higher scores that we've had on this screen.
73:09But then you look at the projections and it's like 12.2 thousand yards.
73:13Well, that can't be what's per his team. And I still have Christian Watson projected to lead Green Bay in receiving from the wide receiver standpoint.
73:21But it doesn't quite compare to what McMillan or Buka's ceiling is because I just, the usage suggested they're a little better player than Christian Watson.
73:28You see his high-end comp right here was Mike Williams from 2021, which he got you, what, close to 15 points per game?
73:35And ceiling side, I think that's where Watson is.
73:38I don't want to be, you and I, Matt, were, I felt like we were ahead of market last year when he returned.
73:45Like, let's see. But when he started to do it, we were like, hey, it's working.
73:49We're riding with him. I'm just, I'm not ready to coordinate him as a truly elite difference-making receiver.
73:54But I think he can be a really good one this year for Green Bay.
73:59That's kind of how I feel about him too.
74:01You know, like his top three comps in the player comparison tools, like 2018 Kenny Galladay, when Kenny Galladay was a good player, two Marvin Jones seasons.
74:09So like good receiver, boundary guy, a little bit volatile.
74:12And I kind of think that's who Christian Watson will be this year.
74:16I thought I find him to be kind of, I'm still a little bit ahead of the overall ADP.
74:22Cause like I said, I, I'm just taking receivers over running backs in this range of the draft, but I'm more so
74:28like in line with his positional ADP. I kind of find him to be appropriately priced at the wide receiver position rather than like a screaming, screaming value.
74:36But he's a guy that on a weekly basis has a really high ceiling.
74:40So if you take some of those safer wide receivers early on that you don't expect that big ceiling from, I think
74:47Watson makes for a really good compliment to that style of room, but there are still risks beyond just injuries with Christian Watson.
74:53It's just, you know, other guys involved the whole deal, but, but good pick.
74:58I think in this range, maybe not one of my favorite picks, but definitely still a really good pick.
75:03You think golden impacts them, Matt? Like where, just where are you at with golden versus Watson?
75:08Uh, I like all the Packers receivers at ADP.
75:11Um, I think the one thing that could really change about this offense is that they are more uptempo, which they were in the preseason.
75:18Uh, Nate and I have been talking about Nate too much on the show.
75:22I'm giving him too much credit. Okay. I've got to stop that.
75:26Uh, he's going to be, he's going to be on the show tomorrow, by the way.
75:30So there you go. Uh, but we were talking about how this offense can play more uptempo this year.
75:36Um, I think they're going to play more 11 personnel, which I think is good for all of these guys, especially Jane
75:42Reed, but reads the guy I've been ahead of ADP most on, whereas kind of golden just goes so cheap.
75:48I'm fine taking him, but I think Watson and read are significantly better players than golden right now.
75:53So that's kind of from a talent perspective, uh, how it would, how it rank it there, but we're going to take our last quick break.
76:01We come back. We've got three more names to talk about in the sixth round.
76:05We'll get into that right after this. All right, we're back.
76:09We have three more players with ADPs in the sixth round at the wide receiver position.
76:13And Ray, we got to be quick on these ones.
76:16We got Mike Evans. We got Roma Dusey. We got Jamison Williams.
76:20I think Mike Evans can be the fastest one, Ray, because I mean, the range of outcomes here, I'm sure the Trinity agrees.
76:26It's, I mean, he either scores 10 touchdowns and is awesome, or he plays three games, you know?
76:32I mean, what, what, what more is there to say about Mike Evans?
76:35Yeah, that's the answer. He's going to play three games and push for scoring 10 touchdowns.
76:40So, and yeah, if he's healthy, he's on the field, he's going to do a big Mike does.
76:45I don't want to talk about injury. We're not getting into an injury show, but it's a concern that people have.
76:52So if there's a different click, if you don't feel comfortable, I'm not going to argue on that one.
76:57And if you're like, Hey, he's a walking seven, eight, nine, 10 touchdown guy draft them.
77:02All I'll say is don't complain when he misses time.
77:05Cause he's probably going to miss a game or two.
77:08So totally. And just from a reception perception standpoint, I'm sure Trinity, it's tough because like he barely played last year.
77:14You know, we wasn't even a full-time player. I will just say, uh, RP wise, like, yeah, definitely wasn't the same player
77:20last year, but if he can be the guy that he was on tape last year as the X receiver for the
77:2749ers, he is a great fit there. So yes.
77:29Has he been injured the past few seasons for sure?
77:32Has he been injured this month in training camp?
77:35Yes. Has he been injured today, August 18th? Yes.
77:37So yes, I mean, that's, that's what you're dealing with if you're clicking Mike Evans, but no question if he's a player,
77:44he was on tape last year, which is no guarantee.
77:47So again, we're saying some ifs here, which is why I've just kind of been in line with ADP on Mike Evans.
77:53Why I've been, I've moved a guy like DJ more ahead of him, you know, in the wide receiver rankings is because there is that risk there.
78:01Uh, you know what it is. Another guy I have ranked ahead of Mike Evans, which I know that sounds crazy based on these two players names.
78:09I have Roma Dunze, who's the 68th overall player off the board in Yahoo drafts right now.
78:14I have him ranked ahead of Mike Evans because one, I'm really in on this bears ecosystem.
78:19And Ray, we've talked about Rome plenty in the past.
78:22Um, what does the Trinity say about a Dunze from a usage standpoint?
78:26Trinity loves them. Trinity likes them. You know, the, the second half of the season, it hurts him, right?
78:31It doesn't account for injury and all of that, but the usage is real and the offense is real.
78:37We're projecting Ben Johnson to take this thing to step forward.
78:40Caleb, Caleb Williams in year three. I'll say is that this, I will continue to say it till we get to week one.
78:47It does not have to be either or it's not.
78:50You have to like burden and then dislike. Oh, Dunze, like both of these players are probably pretty good.
78:55And both of these players probably won't hit that green box on Trinity.
78:59Like they probably, neither of them will probably hit that ceiling, but be in between that median range and that high end range.
79:06They're both really good players. So I'm fine with those doing say, like, I like them a lot.
79:11And I do think there's some, maybe some little higher touchdown potential with him than it is Luther burden as well.
79:17Yeah. So that's the thing where I still really like Rome and I have them ahead of burden, even had them ahead of burden before the injury.
79:25Cause I think the touchdown ceiling on Rome is higher, like the deep routes, the red zone usage, the whole deal there.
79:31And yeah, I mean, the only way dude that they probably hit that green, you know, the, the, the ceiling case for
79:38both of these guys is one of the other gets hurt.
79:41I mean, shoot when Luther burden wasn't playing very much at the beginning of last season cause he was injured in camp.
79:47That was when Roma do say it was awesome.
79:50Luther burden had that massive week 17 game against 49ers.
79:53Roma do say it wasn't playing. So by the way, Luther burdens hurt right now.
79:57You know, what if an injury nags, like Roma do say it could be a great pick and vice versa in that situation as well.
80:05So yeah, very much in on Rome. I've got him.
80:08I mean, just like, well, he's one of the receivers I'm highest on relative to ADP.
80:12Nobody would be surprised about that. I think he's a baller.
80:16James Williams, last guy to talk about here. 69th overall.
80:18Tell me what the Trinity says about this guy, because there's quite a story to tell in the first and the second
80:25half, but the full picture of last season usage wise, where do you stand on Jameson Williams?
80:30It's so wild when I run it through and then I see the numbers so high.
80:35And then I look at the targets and I'm like, how many hundred and six, 1100 yards, 1200.
80:40It's he's he's in a Nick two back to back years of 1100 yards for this guy.
80:45And he's never hyper targeted. He I hate doing this, but he's awesome in basketball.
80:49Like I just I want Jameson Williams and I never want to think about when I have to play him.
80:55I never want to think of it. I just want him on the field because he's the type of player, Matt, he
81:01might get three targets in a week. So Trinity to be like, ah, usage is bad.
81:06But then the dots way up at the top because he scored two touchdowns and they were like 80 yard touchdown plays for Jameson Williams.
81:13Look right here. 58 receptions and 915 yards. He's like the black Alec Pierce out here.
81:18Just low volume, low receptions, high yards. Antoine Pierce, James Williams.
81:21I don't know what it is. I think, listen, I don't maybe I shouldn't step on this here.
81:27I think I think Alec Pierce is the white Jameson Williams.
81:30If we're being serious for a second, Jamo is maybe a little bit of a step ahead of Alec Pierce.
81:36But yeah, I mean, listen, James Williams is a great player and he's just always going to be a model breaker.
81:42You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, he's never going to get the targets that you want.
81:47But as long as he's in this offense with this quarterback and by the way, he's another guy speaking of contingent value.
81:53We've really only seen him one time without Amon Ross St.
81:56Brown in that Thanksgiving game against the Packers. And it's like, oh, what do you know?
82:01Let's funnel a bunch of screens to Jameson Williams.
82:04Let's get him a lot of layup targets. And he was unbelievable in that game.
82:08So yeah, Jamo, I know that people want to pass him over.
82:12His ADP has actually fallen three spots between last week to this week.
82:15I think that's a mistake. Williams is still a guy I'm really, really in on this year.
82:20And I think it's just always going to be a little bit of an ADP breaker.
82:25Ray, this show lived up to my expectations. We covered news.
82:28We covered, I mean, I think we saw the wide receiver four to six range.
82:33And the answer is there are better targets than others.
82:36But for the most part, this is really good range to draft wide receivers.
82:40Tell the people where they can find out more about the Trinity and where they can check out all of your work.
82:46Because I think the people were loving it in the YouTube chat.
82:50Yeah, I love it, man. This was a great show.
82:52Appreciate you, Matt. Appreciate Yahoo for letting us talk about this.
82:56And it's usage visualized. It's ddfantasyfootball.com. I incorporate it into the pieces, into the articles that we write about.
83:01And then just a great compliment to what you do, Matt.
83:04Because I don't do that. I'm not charting routes.
83:07I'm not looking at who's doing what well. So this has absolutely helped me refine my process.
83:12So if you want to check out usage, play with the range of outcomes tools.
83:16Highly recommend checking it out. ddfantasyfootball.com. No question. I think it's a great compliment to what I do.
83:22And I think your work is fantastic. So I think we really help the people here today.
83:27Shout out to you, Ray Garvin. And also, shout out to Yahoo Fantasy because it's our 29th year of fantasy football here.
83:33And to celebrate day 9 of 29, we are revealing that Yahoo is the official fantasy platform for the Flock League.
83:39It is a really popular creator league from YouTube there.
83:42Drafted championship. We are running this whole thing there.
83:45Look at the picture on the screen here. Look at the guys.
83:48I got our old pal Sal Vetri is on the screen here.
83:52We've got my buddy Davis Maddox there. Bunch of great folks in this league.
83:56So you can definitely check them out and check out this league as well because it's a blast.
84:01These guys have a ton of fun with it.
84:04I've been seeing a lot of cool posts from all of them.
84:07So love having them in the network here. Also, love tomorrow's show because it is going to be, yes, another banger.
84:13Nate Tice joins me for one of the best pods of the month.
84:17This is where we look at which teams might be red flags based on how high their guys are going in ADP
84:24versus how low their offense is projected to be from a wide variety of sources.
84:28Yes, we're looking at the Atlanta Falcons this year.
84:31That pod is going to be live right here on this YouTube channel at 4 p.m.
84:35Eastern. Subscribe, like the video, and we'll see you guys tomorrow.
84:39Until then, we are out.

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