2026 NFC East preview

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 46 min

Duration

Estimated from transcript

Aug 28, 2026

Published

Fri, August 28, 2026

Player insights

Players mentioned

Topics

CeeDee LambDak PrescottGeorge PickensJalen HurtsBrevyn Spann-FordChigoziem OkonkwoEli StowersJayden DanielsMakai LemonTerry McLaurin

Player analysis

Player insights

Brevyn Spann-Ford

PositiveUsage38:12

Brevin Span-Ford is utilized as a second blocking tight end, providing the Cowboys with necessary size and flexibility to adjust personnel groupings based on game situations.

Insight page

CeeDee Lamb

PositiveRole36:30

CeeDee Lamb serves as the 'perfect skeleton key' for the Dallas offense, creating a dynamic environment that elevates the performance of teammates like George Pickens.

Insight page

PositiveRole58:59

CeeDee Lamb is the perfect complement to George Pickens, acting as a 'skeleton key' that allows the offense to be versatile. Despite being banged up last year, his ability to operate in various roles makes the pairing with Pickens one of the best in the NFL.

Insight page

Chigoziem Okonkwo

NegativeUsage70:44

Chigoziem Okonkwo is the leading tight end for the Commanders, but his lack of elite blocking ability may force the team to hide him in 12-personnel sets. His fantasy value is tied to whether the new coaching staff can mitigate his blocking deficiencies while utilizing his receiving upside.

Insight page

Dak Prescott

PositiveProjection36:37

Dak Prescott is viewed as the ideal quarterback for George Pickens, with his ability to run an under-center, play-action heavy offense—which ranked fifth in success rate last year—making the Cowboys' passing attack highly dangerous.

Insight page

PositiveProjection57:21

Dak Prescott is viewed as an ideal quarterback for George Pickens due to his aggressive play style and willingness to throw into tight windows. Prescott's ability to maximize Pickens' contested-catch ability creates a 'beautiful marriage' of skill sets that should lead to high-level production.

Insight page

Eli Stowers

NegativeDepth Chart36:49

The Eagles drafted Eli Stowers in the second round for his pass-catching skill set, which the team views as harder to find than the traditional 'Y' tight end. However, Stowers is not currently a complete tight end, leaving the position group feeling thin if the team intends to run 12-personnel packages.

Insight page

George Pickens

PositiveBreakout36:30

George Pickens is poised for a breakout, receiving an 'extra half a notch of bump' from playing with Dak Prescott, who provides him with every opportunity to succeed. Pickens has been 'dominant' throughout training camp, and his skill set is perfectly complemented by CeeDee Lamb's presence in the offense.

Insight page

PositiveBreakout53:27

George Pickens is considered one of the most valuable receivers in the NFL, with internal team metrics ranking him as the sixth most valuable player in the league last year. His ability to win outside the numbers and his chemistry with Dak Prescott make him a dominant force in the Cowboys' offense.

Insight page

Jalen Hurts

NegativeProjection16:42

Jalen Hurts faces a transition to a new offense that emphasizes under-center play action and vertical passing. While he has shown success with deep crossers and ball placement, his comfort level in this new scheme remains a primary question for the early season.

Insight page

NegativeProjection45:31

Jalen Hurts struggled against zone coverage last year, ranking among the bottom quarterbacks in success rate alongside Joe Flacco and Cam Ward. While the new under-center scheme may streamline his decision-making, there is concern that the deterioration of the surrounding offensive talent could hinder his performance.

Insight page

Jayden Daniels

NegativeProjection60:15

Jaden Daniels is a polarizing figure; while he proved he could produce in specific circumstances as a rookie, his offense was statistically less efficient with him than with Marcus Mariota. Skeptics point to the lack of a proven track record, while supporters believe he is a special talent who will thrive in a better-structured situation.

Insight page

Makai Lemon

PositiveUsage24:12

Makai Lemon has shown promise in training camp, specifically executing mesh routes effectively, which has drawn positive attention from the coaching staff and fans.

Insight page

Terry McLaurin

PositiveUsage58:39

Terry McLaurin remains a focal point of the Commanders' passing attack. There is optimism that a healthy season alongside Stephon Diggs could lead to significant production, though the team's shift to a more under-center, run-heavy approach creates uncertainty regarding his target volume.

Insight page

Full transcript

Episode Transcript

1,379

0:00Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays.

0:02The NFC East preview today. This was a good one.

0:05We danced around some of these conversations recently. We really dove into it.

0:09Kind of head first, the Eagles, the Cowboys, and then the other two NFC East teams we haven't talked quite as much about.

0:15Let's waste no more time. Let's get to it.

0:17The NFC East preview me, Dave and Derek right now.

0:20Digging into the NFC East today. I've been looking forward to this one.

0:24We've talked about these teams a decent amount over the last couple of weeks in various forums.

0:28But I honestly feel like my Eagles framing has discounted the fact that there are a lot of fun things I want

0:34to talk about with the Eagles that actually am pretty optimistic about.

0:38And so I'm excited to revisit these teams under the guise of a more holistic conversation.

0:42Now, I'm just going to adopt modern social media language to say, stay on that side, hater.

0:47Stay over there. Don't come hopping on. How sick is that, by the way?

0:51Like the longtime Cowboys guy is like, like ferociously defending the Philadelphia Eagles.

0:54Well, that's the problem. You're too close to the Dallas Cowboys.

0:57That's right. You know the secrets. Way too close.

1:00Let's get into the Philadelphia Eagles preview for 2026.

1:02The offseason in 60 seconds. Hired Sean Mannion as their offensive coordinator.

1:05Moved on from Jeff Stoutland as their offensive line coach.

1:08Replaced him with Chris Cooper. Traded for Jonathan Grenard.

1:11Traded for Dontavian Wicks and signed to Marquise Brown.

1:13Signed Rick Wallen and Arnold Ebiketti in free agency.

1:15Also added AJ Epinesa a little bit later in the process.

1:18Lost AJ Brown, Jalen Phillips, N'Kobe Dean, Reed Blankenship.

1:21Traded AJ Brown for a first round pick. Lost is implicitly kind of like walked out the door.

1:26That absolutely did not happen. In the draft, Makai Lemon in the first round.

1:30Eli Stowers in the third round. Markel Bell in the third round.

1:33Eli Stowers in the second round. There you go.

1:35With each of these teams, if you guys listen to the first couple previews, we're starting this off with what we are

1:41most excited to watch with this team in 2026.

1:44David, what are you most excited to watch with this year's Philadelphia Eagles?

1:47A defense that I am certain is going to be very good and has at least a chance to be the very best in football.

1:54I mean, it's kind of that simple to me.

1:57And like, I think the roster... We all have the same answer to this, by the way.

2:01Yes, because they were a top five defense last year.

2:04You're bringing back Vic Fangio, and I think you can make a pretty easy case that it's a more talented roster than it was last year.

2:11Obviously, you lose Reed Blankenship, which is going to hurt, but I think they have way more edge depth than they did last year.

2:18Hopefully, Jalen Carter is just healthy, which kind of counts as like in addition being back in some ways.

2:23You're adding an all-pro player if you get 2024 Jalen Carter back in the mix here.

2:27Yeah, again, even if he's like 85% of that, that's better than what you got for him for large stretches of last year.

2:34So I think that like that is huge. And you're adding Tariq Wollin on the outside, where like the biggest issue with

2:40this team last year was they kind of had to play certain coverages and play a certain way and hide their cornerback

2:46too for a majority of the season. So you solve that issue.

2:49It just feels like the full toolkit is open for one of the best play callers in the NFL and a front

2:55that I think, you know, maybe doesn't have like a superstar edge, but has superstar defensive tackles.

3:00And I think three, four or five guys, they go deep on the edge.

3:03So I'm just this defense has, you know, I've said it before.

3:07I think there are five defenses maybe in the NFL who could be the best in the NFL.

3:12This is one of them. Every time I get nervous about the Jonathan Grenard situation and the fact that he hasn't had

3:18a training camp, it is a big deal. Don't get me wrong.

3:21But I just think about the D tackles the Eagles have available to them.

3:25And then you look at the depth chart on the edge and like Derek said, it's not spectacular outside of Grenard, but they're just so deep.

3:32I honestly think that the guy that has had the most buzz during training camp that they seem very excited about is actually Jalex Hunt.

3:39Yep. And so for me, it's more about not the quality of the edge players, because I do think that with Hunt,

3:45Nolan Smith, and then Grenard when he comes back, I think the quality is going to more than clear the bar for this being an elite defense.

3:52I think it's more about early in the season.

3:54You're already digging into that depth if Grenard is not playing.

3:57Like AJ Epinesa as your spot fourth edge makes me feel a little bit better than if he is your day one

4:03third edge player that is going to play a lot.

4:06And the same with Abiketti. Like, they're useful role players.

4:09I would feel a little bit uneasy if I had to live with those guys as my third guy out there for a huge chunk of this season.

4:17I agree. But, and that's, it's such an exciting place to have players of that caliber and that build as guys that you're not leaning on.

4:24Because Nolan Smith, super underrated, by the way. And like, I think people forget that he missed a solid chunk of last season.

4:30That's why the Phillips trade was so important. Yeah.

4:32Because they just had such a little physicality on the edge without Nolan Smith as part of that as well.

4:38And then him being undersized. We'll talk more about Grenard later, but I have a, I have a high degree of confidence

4:44that Grenard will be fine in the overarching story.

4:46Story of this season. I don't know when he gets back out there, but if Nolan Smith is the guy that benefits

4:52from Grenard not being there, I think that's fine.

4:55Especially Jalen Carter and Jordan Davis do a lot to mitigate that.

4:58The one looking at what they did last year and just who they were last year and trying to project this moving forward.

5:04Like where are some, maybe the cracks that we can talk about?

5:08This is a below average team last year and run defense success rate.

5:11Part of that is just the way that they play.

5:14They play with more blocked boxes in the, in any team in the NFL where they're willing to say like, we know we're a gap short.

5:21We're fine living this way. Still. I think if you look at the personnel from last year, it makes sense.

5:27The teams could pick on them on the ground a little bit more often simply because Jalen Carter wasn't himself.

5:32And Ojooma was a really nice penetrating piece, but then you get to a place where you've got like one and a

5:38half defensive tackles that you feel good about holding up in those situations.

5:42I just think that room with Jalen Carter back is going to look significantly different than it did a year ago.

5:47And I think there's just more size on the edge coming into the season than they had before they made the Jalen Phillips trade.

5:54And so the run defense, I expect to be better this year, even with the team that plays a lot of light boxes.

6:00Year two for Jihad Campbell stepping into that defense.

6:03I assume he's going to be even better. And then the other part that I find notable is the amount of man coverage this team played last year.

6:10Can they do that again? And do they want to do that again?

6:14Because now you have somebody in Tariq Wollin that if you want to man him up on the backside of some of

6:20this stuff, you feel more comfortable than anything you could have done last year.

6:24And so this was a team that played a lot more man.

6:27And that's the fun thing about Vic is that it's different every year.

6:30Every year, there's a slightly different flavor to it based on what he thinks he needs to evolve, what the personnel dictates.

6:37It's something that comes up over and over again when you talk to coaches on his staff is that they're always so impressed with.

6:43He's not anchored to any one specific way that the defense has to operate.

6:47He's truly open to all right. It's week eight.

6:49What do I got? And how do we play the best way we can play with this group of guys?

6:55And so I expect to see some carry over from that stuff last year.

6:59But this is going to be another season where we discover stuff about this team over the course of the year.

7:04Yeah, Vic Fangio, the brilliance of him is he's not dogmatic.

7:07It's not. It has to be this way. This is the way I built the defense.

7:12It's going to be like this every year. And so I think, again, the fact that, you know, I think sometimes when

7:18teams really turn up the man coverage, sometimes that is about them just wanting to simplify things.

7:22And I think for them, it was twofold, right?

7:25It's like, well, we have Quinnen Williams and he can run with anybody.

7:28And also, if we just simplify things for the cornerback, too, it's imperfect.

7:32And he's running with guys that are maybe going to beat him, but it at least theoretically makes his job simpler.

7:38But I think now they're in a spot where our corners are so talented.

7:42Why would we do anything but play a ton of man coverage?

7:45And so I do think that even though we think of them as like a zone defense, then I think continuing to

7:51play as much man as they did, especially on third downs and like when they were blitzing.

7:55I kind of do expect that continued to be the case.

7:58The one thing I feel like is notable there.

8:01This is getting a little bit in the weeds when I've spent a ton of time on it is that the length

8:07that Rick Warren is bringing to that position. They think that him as a squat corner actually does make a lot of sense.

8:13And so if you're going to do some of that cover six stuff where it essentially can be matching and man like

8:19on the back on one side with Quinion. And then you're playing Rick is that cover two guy in the flat.

8:25He has the length to potentially be bothersome in those roles.

8:28And so maybe that's a reason you lean into a little bit more of the quarter quarter half Vic Fangio stuff than you would have last year.

8:35But again, that's just a that's a July training camp conversation.

8:38Who the heck knows if that's actually going to be what we see come Sundays.

8:42Let's talk about the last thing about the defense is worth mentioning.

8:46The one position that I do think is worth considering just because it's unsettled at least was it sounds like Marcus Epps

8:52is probably going to be the week one starter at that other safety spot.

8:56That feels to me like a veteran knows the system high floor.

8:59Let's go with that. But they've got some options there like Michael Carter has been playing safety for the most part throughout the summer.

9:05And I think he gives you a little bit more man coverage ability if you wanted some flexibility back there.

9:11And so it sounds like it's Marcus Epps right now, but they do have some interesting answers there depending on which direction they ultimately want to go.

9:18And the degree to which Cooper to Gene is part of that as well.

9:22And base he will. Yeah, he'll push. And that's the other thing is this team is potentially equipped to play a lot

9:28of base defense if they want to because the linebackers can cover so well.

9:32And so if you think your best 11 involves Bon, Campbell, DeGene at safety, and then five big guys, I could see

9:38them doing that a little bit more. They did it more last year.

9:42And so whether this being a team that plays a little bit more base than we might attribute to a Cooper, DeGene,

9:48Vic Fangio team, I could see that happening. Let's talk about what you were watching the first month of the season, Derek, as it relates to the Eagles.

9:55This is a curiosity, something you feel is unanswered, something you want a little bit more clarity about as we get early in the season.

10:02Yeah, I mean, how do Jalen Hurts, and I think to a slightly different extent, the offensive line take to a new offense?

10:08Like it's going to be a little bit more under center.

10:11I think they're going to try to hit some of this play action stuff a little bit more.

10:16And they've flirted with some of that stuff, I think, over the past couple of years.

10:21But it's never felt like it was the core principle of the offense.

10:24And so I think it's here and there. Yeah, especially with Kellen Moore, like they did try some of it.

10:30But it's like it's they've mostly been a gun do what they do sort of offense.

10:34And so I think the fact that it's shifting to something different, like, I mean, I feel like we've said it ad nauseum this offseason.

10:41I think I just have questions about how comfortable Jalen Hurts is going to look into that.

10:45And then again, I think the offensive line, like this is a lot of new for them, too.

10:50Like for as great as they've been, it's also been very specific for them.

10:54It's been a lot of the same gun RPO downhill type of stuff.

10:58And so the fact that that's going to be a little bit of a change for them.

11:02I just wonder if this is a thing where do they just look like week one and two, like out of the gate?

11:09They're kind of ready to go. Or is this something that is more of a OK, let's see how it looks by Halloween.

11:15And maybe we're trying to figure out what concepts we like and that sort of thing.

11:19The offensive transition is my answer to this as well.

11:22I feel like there are just so many unanswered questions.

11:25Exactly what you're poking at, Derek. The quarterback part of this, I'm sure we'll have multiple chances to talk about it over the course of this segment.

11:32How he acclimates to it, I think, is the biggest question.

11:35When they did this stuff last year, and they did it in a way that I think if you're trying to carry

11:41over ideas that Sean Mannion would have seen and used in Green Bay, and the stuff that we saw Jalen Hurts use

11:47last year, it's not these, there are so many different ways to use play action and under center play action.

11:53You have the, it's called Jared Goff, Lions-esque, like glances, quick release, over the middle, balls out, back foot, go.

11:58Middle of the field accessing, run after catch opportunities on play action.

12:01That's a way to use under center play action.

12:04The Packers are a team that they take some more vertical shots off of play action where it's, you're not getting guys

12:10on the move necessarily, where it's deeper developing routes.

12:12We're setting up kind of right behind the center, but it's a token fake and we're trying to get vertical off those plays.

12:19When you watch the Eagles succeed in this area last year, that's the type of stuff that it was.

12:24Go back to that Vikings game, there were a couple plays against the Giants where he did this.

12:29I actually do think there's a lot of carryover for the things you saw Jordan Love do well and the things we could see Jalen Hurts do well.

12:36Because if they're these big crossers where he can see them come open, they start to get all the way to another

12:42side of the field, his ball placement down the field is excellent.

12:46It's more about him making decisions quickly when there's a lot of blurriness and traffic.

12:50And so I'm open to this working. I just think the best version of it is a vertical version of it where

12:56they're really trying to push the ball downfield as part of this overall identity.

13:00I like that point where people talk about Jalen throwing over the middle and it evokes, for me at least, this mental

13:06image of like Dak Prescott is just willing to fire into like any hole that he sees.

13:10Like the minute it flashes open, he'll rip it in there.

13:13It doesn't have to be that hard. It'd be fun if you're good enough and confident enough to do that.

13:19You can manufacture shots over the middle of the field that I hate to say easy, but like you can scheme up more open, like less traffic looks.

13:26And like you're talking about, like deep crossers, that is it's not a hard route to throw just because we haven't seen it in the Eagles offense.

13:34It's a hard route to access in this version of the league because those plays just don't work quite as well in

13:40a world where you're seeing more umbrella style coverages.

13:42Because what you're having to do is if you're trying to run those big crossers, you need two guys to lift out

13:48the coverage on one side rather than one. And so you just have to scheme it up a little bit differently.

13:54But I think they're cognizant of that. I think that's the type of stuff that they're going to try to be trying

14:00to access because that's the type of stuff that I think Jalen does well.

14:04It's his it's some of his best throws. Like obviously we all imagine the go balls with A.J.

14:09Brown, right? But even someone like you mentioned, when they try to go deep under center and like take their shot plays, it's H.A.

14:15Brown running a post. It's Devonta Smith running a post and he is willing to let that ball lay out there.

14:21So I think it's a great distinction that the play action stuff isn't about can you crack the window open and Jared

14:27Goff is going to earhole it past the linebacker.

14:30It's we're just going to bomb it over your head.

14:32And I do think that hurts is pretty capable.

14:35Did y'all happen to see the play from the Eagles scrimmage at the link the other day?

14:39They got picked? No. Well, we're having plenty of Jalen Hurts training camp pick discourse, which is just exhausting.

14:45I the next time I hear a training camp stat will be the last time I need to.

14:49I'm so done with this stuff. I'm so done.

14:52I need the games to start so badly. Hurts hit Makai Lemon on.

14:55They ran mesh with Lemon running the rail out of a motion and they hit it for a nice game.

15:01It's nothing spectacular, but Eagles fans flip the flip the hell out.

15:04And everybody was like, oh, y'all have been in hell.

15:07If hitting the rail on mesh is getting you this excited.

15:10But that's the other part. I think the under center play action element of this, people have fixated on it, which I

15:16completely understand because it's an easy talking point to me.

15:19It's some of the other structural considerations. Last year, the Eagles were in spread looks prediction on 29% of their plays.

15:24Those second in the NFL, the Packers were at 8.9%.

15:27We're talking a third as often. So the formations are going to be more condensed.

15:31There's going to be more motion. And that is combined with all of the under center play action considerations we're talking about.

15:37But Derek, so much attention has been paid to the quarterback.

15:40Reasonably so. You bring up the offensive line is, I think, such a good thing to mention.

15:45One of my favorite player conversations I've ever had is the one I had with Jordan Maulata at training camp this year.

15:51Just about what the transition to this offense has looked like for him.

15:55And it is drastically different. It's drastically different. And I think the biggest difference, and one of the coaches there brought this

16:01up, and I thought it was such a cool framing where the fronts, we talked about this a little bit yesterday with the Bengals.

16:07The fronts are getting so junky on early downs where teams are doing so many funky things and they're stunting and really

16:13doing everything they can to make things hard on offensive lines and take away double teams.

16:17Going to a wide zone world, the way that Jordan Maulata described is when they were playing with Stoutland and they were

16:23playing in this inside zone world, the mental tax, how mentally taxing it was for the offensive linemen and the choices they had to make pre-snap.

16:31It was like doing algebra at the line of scrimmage.

16:33Now you're making it so much simpler. It's like just point and come off the ball, point and come off the ball.

16:39And one of the coaches made a comparison that it almost is like a quarterback going from a coverage-based world to a

16:45pure progression world where all you're doing is thinking about space.

16:48You're not thinking about making decisions based on a pre-snap alignment of the players.

16:52And I think that was one of the biggest issues is that they're having to make all of these things and all

16:58these decisions at the line as the diversity and complexity of fronts is getting more and more advanced.

17:03And it's the same consideration where we're moving away from coverage reads because you don't know what the coverage is.

17:09And so I think there are benefits to it, but they're also really having to acclimate like they didn't do 45 degree

17:15sets as offensive tackles in the previous offense. They're doing a lot of it here.

17:19They're getting more help than they've ever gotten before.

17:21My lot of was saying like there are plays where I'll overset a little bit and I'll get back inside and I'll forget.

17:27Oh, I have help. Like I actually can do that.

17:30I'm supposed to do that. And so I think they like it because it protects them and it does let you guys play a little bit faster.

17:38But we'd be lying to ourselves if we said it doesn't take time to get comfortable playing in a drastically different way than you've ever played before.

17:45And given the reputation of so many of the guys on that offensive line, you just you don't associate learning curves and

17:51progress over the course of the season with like Lane Johnson and Jordan Mailata.

17:55But I think that's important to keep in mind.

17:57Yeah. And they've just especially in pass protection. Those guys were on islands all the time constantly.

18:02And the fact that they don't have to be anymore.

18:05I think Lane and Jordan are both just kind of looking at each other being like, can you believe this is look at us?

18:11They finally get a reprieve. Dave, yours answer was a little bit different.

18:15You did not have the offensive structure. I knew we were going to talk about it.

18:19Yeah, if you're not focusing on the quarterback and the offense, two main things.

18:23We already mentioned Grenard. When is he available? What does that look like?

18:26I mean, there's already plenty of doubt he'll be out there week one, although he's the type of veteran that might not need a training camp.

18:34So obviously watching that. The other one you mentioned, Jihad Campbell.

18:37I'm just very interested by what a guy that athletic looks like in year two.

18:41And it's interesting to note, he was the only starter that played in Philly's preseason opener.

18:45And Vic Fangio, not surprisingly, very honestly, was like, he needs the reps.

18:49He needs to play. He's a young player. That's not a bad thing necessarily, but it's just a reminder of where he is.

18:55Remember, he got demoted last year when N'Kobe Dean came back.

18:58His snap share dropped from 93% to 27%. So still a guy coming along and learning how this works.

19:03I watched the Bills game last year and I watched his preseason snaps.

19:07He looks good. He looks fine. He's incredibly athletic and very impressive to watch move in space.

19:11He looks like he's thinking a lot, which is not surprising.

19:14But how quickly does that click? And if it does, that is terrifying for people that have to play the Eagles, because

19:20I think the defense is already really good with Jihad Campbell just kind of being a mystery box.

19:25If he clicks into being a badass linebacker over the course of his second season, I mean, we're going to the moon.

19:31And I think you see it most in coverage with him.

19:34Like I, he, he has incredibly high highs in coverage.

19:37Like when he's just leveraging his athletic ability, he's running with a rail route.

19:41He's taking three up the seam and he's just running with a guy down the pole.

19:45He's incredible. Or if he's just tackling a check down, whatever it is.

19:49But when he's, you know, the number three crosser is coming under his face and he just doesn't quite see stuff like

19:55that, or he's a little bit late to get to his landmark, whatever it is in zone.

19:59I think some of the floor raising stuff in coverage needs to come along for him, because I think that's a big reason why Dean got snapped.

20:07Dean doesn't have the high end plays the same way, but Dean was like in the right spot and taking guys on crossers.

20:13Like he just did a lot of the keep the coverage buttoned up sort of stuff.

20:17And I do think Campbell needs another step there, but he's just a player that I think has like pro bowl type of potential.

20:24And so maybe it's not quite there this year, but he is a player that I'm just I'm so excited about.

20:30It's well for players that position. We know that.

20:32And I guess the last thing worth mentioning about your hot Campbell, we talked about edge depth.

20:37If they want to move him down there when they're a little bit thin with Grenard early in the season and play

20:43some of that 5-1 stuff, they absolutely can. And so that's one area where you kind of protect yourself a little bit if Grenard's slow to come back.

20:50And actually, to that point with him, it did seem like and I think this is because they actually have depth there right now.

20:57I think Vic Fangio was talking earlier this offseason like we don't want him to do that.

21:02Obviously, if you arrive there by injury, it's like, OK, you just got to do what you doubt to do.

21:07He's a former defensive end. But last year he was kind of cross training.

21:11And so the fact that hopefully this year it's a little bit more like, hey, man, you're just playing in the stack.

21:17Let's get you those reps and just think about that.

21:20I hope that that kind of speeds his progress a little bit.

21:23Two more quick things about the offense that we did not mention.

21:26One, Mike McCutley just started practicing again. So how quickly we see him up to speed as the third receiver, I think

21:32that's worth considering like the and then they're excited about Dontavian Wicks.

21:36Like I do think that them not only trading for Dontavian Wicks, but giving him an extension.

21:40It's a one year extension. But I think that really signals that we think he can be something for us.

21:46So I think the receivers outside of Devante Smith becoming that number one guy, it still remains to be seen.

21:51We haven't seen Dontavian Wicks being that sort of feature part of the offense.

21:55And we haven't seen him Kyle in play. I think overall, I've got some collective enthusiasm for that group, but there's still

22:01enough that's murky about it where it's like, all right, we'll see.

22:04And then the other room that I think is like, I don't know, is what's happening at tight end.

22:09The choice they made with Eli Stowers, I thought was really interesting where you had all these other teams on day two

22:15and in round two specifically going for these bigger bodied Y players.

22:19And the Eagles have never been a trend chasing team ever.

22:22They've always been, we're going to go a little bit against the grain.

22:25We are paying Saquon $12 million a year, two years before the running backs start making 22, right?

22:30They've always been that sort of team. And so them, they went, they picked Stowers in the second round, I think in

22:36part, because that's a skill set as a pass catcher that actually is more valuable and harder to find.

22:41Even if right now we're not valuing that sort of player, they signed Johnny Munt for no money to give them what

22:47a Borkutcher could potentially give the Jags, even though Munt was in Jacksonville last year, which is funny.

22:52But I think it has put them in a position because Stowers is not a complete tight end right now where that room feels thin.

22:59If you want to be a 12 multi-tight end team, because you're going to be an under center run the ball team,

23:05you've only got like two options that you feel good about there.

23:08And so I think that's just something to have in the back of your mind where you're going Oh, they drafted a tight end in the second round.

23:16Not really, right? It's like the Gesicki thing we were just saying about the Bengals.

23:20Yeah. So I think that's a, that is a thinner group than you want it to be.

23:25So just something to kind of keep in mind.

23:27Let's talk about speaking of something to keep in mind.

23:30What is keeping you up at night, Derek, about the 2026 Philadelphia Eagles doing this for every team?

23:35Just the thing that for whatever reason has left you a little bit worried as we sit here on the doorstep of the season.

23:42Mine is a little existential with the identity of this team.

23:45What if the offensive line is just never back to what it was?

23:48And that doesn't mean bad. They're too talented to be bad, obviously.

23:51But just think about how for four or five years, they were the best offensive line in the league.

23:57They were just absolutely mauling people. So from, I looked up from 2021 to 2025, they were above the 90th percentile in

24:03yards before contact from 21 to 24. Last year, they were not.

24:06They were only 11th in the NFL at about 60th percentile.

24:09So that's still like above average and good. But when the identity of your team was we mash everybody, even in some

24:15of those down years, like 2023 was not their best season.

24:18They were still that kind of offensive line. And so I think the fact that last year they had taken a step

24:24back and there are a few reasons for that, right?

24:27Like, I think we, you know, the play calling was this and the scheme was not great.

24:31I think they had some disagreements about how the run game was supposed to work.

24:35Jordan Mailata, I think, just did not have his best season after being unbelievable in the, you know, the year before in 2024.

24:42Dickerson rushed back from an injury. Lane Johnson had, you know, was banged up towards the end and it is getting a little bit older.

24:48So there's reasons to see like why last year didn't go so well.

24:52But like Dickerson and Lane Johnson, I think it's fair to question like how the health is going to maintain, especially going

24:58forward, especially with Lane Johnson, given how old he is.

25:01So I obviously still think this offensive line will be good.

25:04But is this a they will win every single game for us sort of offensive line anymore?

25:08I'm I don't know. When your two most highly paid interior players are going to Columbia in the spring to get some

25:14stem cell treatment, it's not the way you want to start the offseason.

25:18I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to.

25:21I saw Medellin and was like, ah, we're going to other countries.

25:24Oh, wonderful place. But like we're going to other countries to get stem cell treatment.

25:28I don't know, man. At least Lane Dickerson is coming.

25:31Lane Dickerson is telling. At least Landon Dickerson is coming into the season healthy in a way he wasn't last year.

25:37They all are. That's the word out of Philly.

25:39Like, no. Well, that's because he's practicing every other day.

25:42Yeah, he's on a vet. He's on a vet regimen, which it's great if they're all healthy.

25:47And according to people in Philly, none of them have missed time because of injury.

25:51But Dickerson's on a vet schedule. And unfortunately, when you're this age and Lane Johnson said this is probably his final year, you can do everything right.

25:58And this shit can still be a problem by week two.

26:01It's just the way this goes. I hope that's not the case, but it is very existential.

26:06I get where Derek is coming from. I think that's a worthwhile concern.

26:09I still think that if this group is healthier than it was last year, which they're already starting healthy than they were last year.

26:16And again, some of those considerations where the way teams are playing against them is just making it really hard to run the ball.

26:22So again, you're coming out from two different directions.

26:25The talent level is not what it was. And just what teams are throwing at you.

26:29You're not as equipped to deal with it as you might have been in a previous era of the league.

26:35If it's healthier and we have more answers, can this group get back to being one of those dominant teams where the

26:41Eagles aren't bottom 10 and rushing success rate? I think that's where this starts.

26:45Outside of the defense being a top three unit, that's where the optimism for this team starts.

26:49Yeah. And it scares the shit out of me.

26:52I went to put in my own answer to this question and saw Derek's and was like, no, that's that's correct.

26:57That's the one. And as the person who really believes in the Eagles, it is very contingent on the offensive line, not just.

27:04Being good, but great. Like top five caliber. And that's what brings me to mind.

27:08I would keep me up at night. We don't have to spend a ton more time talking about this.

27:13If you want to hear my whole thoughts on it, you can go listen to the show we did earlier this week.

27:19What show did I bring it up on? The quarterbacks in the crossroad show.

27:23Oh yeah. Quarterbacks in the crossroad show. You can go back and listen to this.

27:27Will the passing game be good enough? That that that's where I sit with it.

27:31Joe Flacco and Cam Ward were the only players in the NFL, only quarterbacks in the NFL that have a worse success

27:37rate versus own coverage last year than Jalen Hurts.

27:40I just, I wonder if the other stuff is diminished.

27:42If the offensive line is a step worse. If the running game is a step worse.

27:47If we don't have AJ Brown here anymore. If Makai Lemon comes along slowly.

27:50If Dontavian Wicks doesn't turn into that number two receiver that you feel excited about early in the season.

27:56Is it good enough? And I just don't know.

27:58I think that there's an argument that the under center stuff will unlock him in a way that he hasn't been unlocked

28:04before in part because it streamlines the decision making.

28:07Right? Under center is the purest form of pure progression football.

28:10You're not making a decision based on coverages where it, you're kind of, your gears are turning in real time.

28:15You're turning around. Whoever's open, you're throwing the ball to.

28:18Like, I actually think that that style of offense can coax something out of him that we really haven't seen.

28:23We saw in flashes last year. I'm open to that.

28:26But what's keeping me up at night is that this has been a plus 48% passing success rate team once since he's been there.

28:33And the circumstances around him have deteriorated since then.

28:35And so you can make an argument that the scheme is more conducive to success, but that is still a question.

28:41This is a first time play car we've never seen do this before that has been coaching for like two years.

28:46So is that path there? Yes, it could. They could absolutely go down that one, but they could also go down the

28:52other one where every single aspect of this is not as good as it was when this offense in this passing game felt Super Bowl caliber.

29:00I don't want to do 17 more weeks of that, of the, of the, it's just so toxic and so frustrating to talk about.

29:06So what is success in your mind for the 2026 Eagles?

29:09You know, I think it's easy because one thing has to happen for this all to fall into place.

29:14The offense just has to be solid. I don't think it even needs to be great.

29:19If this is like a top 12 offense, the Eagles are a Super Bowl contender.

29:23Yeah. So be right about the offense. Be right about Sean Mannion and be right that Jalen Hurts can do this and

29:29you'll be good enough to win the division and make a playoff run.

29:32The Eagles are an on-year, off-year team. I mean, it's.

29:35Do you look like an on-year Eagles team? They called when the, when the San Francisco Giants used to win the show, they called it even year bullshit.

29:43Yeah. Even year bullshit. Are you going to be back on your even year bullshit if you're the Eagles?

29:48That's it. Bonus points if they hit and Sean Mannion actually stays in his job.

29:52Like how sick would it be for the offense to be good and Sean Mannion just gets to stay and call the offense for the Eagles?

29:59It would be crazy. That would be completely different.

30:02Kellen Moore did this for a long time. Shane Steichen was doing this for a long time.

30:06I think they've got an outside, like let's say they're good and they go to the divisional round of the playoffs.

30:12I think Sean Mannion, I would be surprised if he jumps right into a head coaching job off of his first year.

30:18Year four as a coach. Yeah. I do think that's reasonable.

30:21If this works, Eagles fans should have some optimism that they might actually get to keep an OC.

30:26Yeah. The guys who are so young, it's like one year of pretty good won't do it.

30:31If your name is already out there and then you have one pretty good year somewhere, it's like, okay, maybe that'll get you a chance.

30:37But usually they want to see the super young guys do it twice.

30:41Like Jesse Minter was great, but I think there was like a, let's, let's see two years of this before we're like

30:47fully invested in what that's going to be. And even Jesse Minter had spent several more years as an NFL coach than

30:53Sean Mannion had before he got that job. All right, before we get to the Dallas Cowboys, let's take our first quick break.

30:59Let's get to the Dallas Cowboys. Our preview for the 2026 Dallas Cowboys.

31:03They're off season in 60 seconds. Hire Christian Parker as the defensive coordinator.

31:06Signed Jalen Thompson, traded for Rashawn Gary, traded for Dee Winters, signed Kobe Durant, PJ Locke, Otita Ogbonia.

31:11Lost Osa Digizua in a trade. Let Dante Fowler and Jadeveon Clowney walk in free agency.

31:16In the draft, Caleb Downs in the first round, Malachi Lawrence in the first round, Jayshan Barham.

31:20Jayshan Barham. Not Barsham. Jayshan Barham. That's a tough one.

31:23I'm going to get 60 seconds real fast here.

31:26In the third round, Derek, what are you most excited to see with the 2026 Dallas Cowboys?

31:30I mean, they're the inverse of the team we just talked about.

31:33I think this might be the best offense in football.

31:36Like, I just feel like they have all the right pieces.

31:39They have a quarterback who we've seen play at MVP Heights before and put up some of the best passing numbers in the NFL.

31:46They have an offensive line that is young and really talented almost across the entire board.

31:50They have other, you know, outside of Cincinnati, I think the best one-two punch at wide receiver in the entire NFL.

31:56In a league where I do think we're going back to a little bit more, like, can your guys play and win outside the numbers?

32:03And I think both of those guys are absolutely excellent at that, especially George Pickens.

32:07And I just expect them in year two of this system, in an offense that looked pretty good last year, to be,

32:13to just, like, continue to kick ass. And, like, the thing that I would say, you know, the offensive line was exciting

32:19last year, but they were a little bit banged up and a lot of those guys missed time.

32:24It wasn't that many games, but when Tyler Guyton and Cooper Beebe played together, when those two were on the field together,

32:30they had a 45.2% rushing success rate, according to True Media, which would have been tied for third in the league with the Chicago Bears.

32:37When they had their guys, they were mashing people.

32:39And so I just think if they can get back to that, a second year in the system, kind of tinker with

32:45some stuff, this could be all wheels up. Year two of this offense is my answer, and I'm extremely excited about it.

32:51They finished sixth in EPA per play. They finished seventh in weighted offensive DVOA last year.

32:55They were seventh in the percentage of 20-plus yard plays that they had last year.

33:00Like, almost any metric, they were a top seven offense.

33:02And this is in year one of a system.

33:05Year one of a system where, and I'll go back to this a couple different times, it's a hodgepodge of guys from different backgrounds that never worked together.

33:12You're trying to build something in real time. I think that they did a great job of landing on a version of

33:18the offense that felt cohesive and varied and just has so many different answers to things.

33:23But there are still areas where it's like, man, we just weren't as good enough here.

33:27Perfect example, 25th in the NFL in red zone scoring percentage last year.

33:31They were not a good red zone team. So this offseason, self-scout, how can we build in more mechanisms when we get

33:37into the red zone to have maybe a little bit more optionality pre-snap to make sure we're getting in the right play?

33:43And so this is your first offseason to kind of evaluate that stuff as a new staff.

33:47And so I just think it's really easy to bake in improvement overall when you're walking into year two when this group has never worked together before.

33:55And it's for exactly the reasons that Derek said.

33:57The offensive line was hurt last year. And Tyler Guyton, when he did play, in part because I think he came into

34:03this season hurt, just wasn't very good. And so if we can get more snaps from Cooper Beebe and Tyler Guyton, and

34:09this can go from being a below average run success rate team last year to a top five run success rate team

34:15last year, when I very much believe in the run game designer, he's one of the best to do this.

34:21I just think there's so many different things where with some teams you have to tell yourself a story about why X,

34:27Y, Z can all fall into place. With this team, it's just not hard to get myself there on offense.

34:32It's very easy to get myself there. After listening to your conversation with Clayton Adams over the summer, I was there instantaneously.

34:38I'll take it more granular because y'all laid out the big picture.

34:41I just want to watch Dak Prescott throw you balls to George Pickens and watch him pluck them off people's helmets.

34:47The most, one of the most beautiful marriages of play styles in the league right now.

34:52It really is. One of the most aggressive quarterbacks.

34:54League leader in tight window throws. I can fit that in there.

34:57Yeah. I can fit that in there. League leader in tight window throws and the guy who tied for second and contested catches.

35:04Like there's no ball Dak won't throw. And George Pickens is going to do a hell of a job of making him look right.

35:10And it's just beautiful. I can't wait to see it for 17 more weeks.

35:14I don't think people understand how good George Pickens was last year.

35:17He was phenomenal. I truly don't understand how. I don't think that there were.

35:21I talked to a team with the front office where they had like their in-house player evaluation tools, like just war, like for their own measurements.

35:28And George Pickens was like the sixth most valuable player in football last year.

35:32For some of those metrics. Like that's how dominant he was on his targets.

35:36And oh, by the way, CeeDee Lamb is on this team.

35:39Who was also banged up last year. Who was also banged up last year.

35:43Mm-hmm. And I just, we talk about stylistic marriages.

35:45Pickens is, there are very few guys in the league right now, really just Nico and Pickens where teams are just like, you're the X.

35:52Maybe T, maybe T, right? Where it's just like, we're just going to stick you out there because nobody can do anything about it.

35:59And why, that's cool if you can do it and he can.

36:02But the other part of that is CeeDee is the perfect player to be paired with a receiver like that because now CeeDee can do anything else.

36:09And so I just, even more than, Chase and Higgins is just this force of nature, compare, like combination of players.

36:15Stylistically, the pairing with Pickens and Lamb, I actually do think is almost like a more beautiful pairing of skill sets than

36:21we even get with the Cincinnati guys. It's the perfect yin and yang to like how you would build the receiver.

36:27Like you said, the guys in Cincinnati, they're just bigger, faster, and catch everything.

36:30And George Pickens does that. But CeeDee Lamb being the perfect like skeleton key around whatever George Pickens is giving you is beautiful.

36:37And then I love Dave mentioning the, just how perfect a quarterback Dak Prescott is for George Pickens, which I think is

36:43something I underrated when they brought him in. But I've talked about this a little bit too with like Matthew Stafford and Pukunokua.

36:49Pukunokua is obviously incredible, but he kind of reaches that final level because he's playing with a particular quarterback.

36:54And I do think with George Pickens having a Dak Prescott, it's kind of that, like he's a great player and he

37:00gets that extra half a notch of bump because he's playing with the guy who is just going to give him every

37:06opportunity to go do his best stuff. Pickens has been doing this every day in camp, by the way, like just had

37:12from everything I've heard coming out of their camp every single day, just dominant.

37:16I'm so excited to watch it. And the other part of it is that we talked about this with the Bengals where

37:22like, all right, are you building in the layers to have a little bit more being a little bit harder to pin

37:28down, having more toolbox, having more tools in the toolbox when you get into the most important games of the year?

37:34How many different ways can you play? How many different plays ways can you win?

37:38Dallas has already started to play that way. They already did that last year.

37:42That was one of the coolest parts of the offense is that they had a tool for any situation based on how teams were playing against them.

37:49This team was fifth in play action rate last year.

37:52Fifth Dallas Cowboys team. And it's not what we saw when Mike McCarthy was there, when Jason Garrett was there, they were fifth in play action success rate.

38:00Like that under center play action version of this offense with Dak, they've already shown how scary that can be.

38:05And then you think about the personnel, they're 11 with Flourney dynamic group.

38:09Brevin span forward is like a second blocking tight end piece.

38:12When you need a bigger body on the field, they have that.

38:15They can play two back stuff if they want to.

38:18I just think that the breadth of this thing, but not just for breath's sake, the quality and the combination of how

38:24many things that they can do in year two when you're streamlining stuff and tweaking and improving.

38:28The sky's truly the limit. Like I think they can be really, really scary and dynamic on this side of the ball.

38:34Let's talk about what we're watching over the first month of the season.

38:38I'll kick this one off. Can Christian Parker do this?

38:41That's what I'm watching. Can Christian Parker and that defense get to this place?

38:44And I want to start in a more kind of meta way with this, where people have said that I'm baking in

38:50an improvement from the Cowboys defense and how we talk about them, where I would typically be more speculative with a first year play caller in other situations.

38:58I'm absolutely doing that. You've been saying this for years about this guy.

39:02I'm like, I'm absolutely doing that. We're self-aware about our things here.

39:05Okay. I'm absolutely doing that. And here's what I would say to that.

39:08We play collectively the wait and see game so often on this show.

39:12And I think we do that because we understand the things we don't know.

39:16Yeah. But every once in a while, if you believe in something, if you have conviction about something, make a stand.

39:22Right. And that's what I'm doing. Like, this is supposed to be fun.

39:25If we're just sitting here with every single team being like, I don't know, man, I think that's a smart way to handle most things.

39:32But every once in a while, I think it's a little, it's can be enjoyable to kind of get out in front

39:38and be like, I think this is going to happen.

39:41And the worst thing that can happen on the other side of that is it doesn't.

39:45And then it's like, well, I guess it didn't happen.

39:48I very rarely do we do that. I think we should do it more, not less.

39:52And so I think that's why I've been so comfortable leaning into that a little bit this year, because yeah, like I haven't been shy about this.

40:00I think he's got the goods and I think that they can do it.

40:03And I'm yes, I'm baking that in a way that I wouldn't with a coordinator.

40:07I've never seen do this before. And for you specifically, this is not like prisoner of the moment or like Cowboys hype.

40:13You've been doing the Christian Parker thing for like three years now.

40:17You've been like, he's going to be the next guy.

40:19He's going to be the next guy up. So like this is this was going to happen with whatever team he ended up signing.

40:26It could have been the Bengals. It could have been whoever.

40:29I think the other thing that gets a little bit underrated to somehow, because so much of it is about Christian Parker

40:35is going to change this and it's going to be a whole different scheme and stuff.

40:39They have six new starters. And that doesn't even include Malachi Lawrence being a first round pick who's coming off the bench.

40:45Like it's just a completely different unit than the one that we saw last year.

40:50When I pick them in the defenses draft, the first thing that I mentioned is the two leading snap getters on the

40:56team last year were Donovan Wilson and Kenneth Murray, neither of whom are currently employed by an NFL team.

41:01You know, it's and it makes it exciting. But there's also it's hard to extrapolate things about this because like of what

41:07use is the Cowboys defensive season to you trying to parse through this very, very little.

41:11Yeah. And that's the problem is I think people look at what it was last year.

41:15And they're like, man, they were the worst defense in the league.

41:19You're expecting that big of a jump. Well, it's a ship of theseus sort of situation.

41:23Like how much of the Cowboys defense is actually what it was if we're switching out all the parts just brought up

41:29a ship of theseus reference on taffs right now.

41:32It plays to our audience. It does. Is that is it worth explaining?

41:35Like if how much do you have to take away from the original thing for it to maintain what it was?

41:41Yes. Yeah. And so have we done enough where we've where it actually is the Cowboys defense anymore?

41:46I would argue, no. It no. It has nothing in common with last year's defense.

41:50That's what I said with it. Who's the best play?

41:53I mean, Quinn and Williams got there midway through the year.

41:56Who's the second best player that's left over from last year's Cowboys defense?

41:59They also traded for before the season. It's getting better.

42:02However, you feel about Donovan Ezraku as a year or two player.

42:05Yeah, it's the best guy that was there before the 2025 offseason or again, midseason with Quinn and Williams.

42:10It's really just like Malik Hooker or Damarian Overshawn.

42:13Otherwise, it's all guys that they've played like 200 snaps last year.

42:16Damarian Overshawn coming off a devastating injury. It is like it's just not at all.

42:20I think the defense that we remember them being as bad as last year.

42:24And again, you don't know how much improvement there's going to be.

42:27It would be shocking if they are not like at least two tiers better than they were last year.

42:33So we've obviously talked a lot about this because we just did the contender show.

42:37I'm a little I'm more hesitant. That's mainly just out of self-preservation.

42:40But I was curious. Reasonable stance, by the way.

42:42More than reasonable. I just wanted to know, like we talk about it all the time.

42:47Defense is so volatile and you see these year over year jumps.

42:50I just wanted to know how realistic that really is.

42:53And it's not a huge sample size because DVOA is only publicly available going back to 2018.

42:57But I just looked at the 30 teams that have finished bottom five in defensive DVOA since 2018.

43:02How many of them made a meaningful jump one year later?

43:05It's about half. It's a lot of teams. About half of the bottom five in any given year can be expected.

43:11I just set an arbitrary line of 15 jumps up the rankings, 15 spots.

43:15So half of the teams over that time period got 50 percent better than they were the year before.

43:20And nine teams out of 30 jumped all the way into the top 10 the next year.

43:25Like it is. The Jags did it last year.

43:27The Jags did it last year. 2024 does a shitload of heavy lifting.

43:31Broncos. Broncos, Eagles, and Seahawks were all terrible in 2023 and got good immediately.

43:35Play calling, Mike McDonald, Vic Fangio. You think that has something to do with it?

43:39And that's why when people have asked the difference between why maybe I'm a little bit more bullish on the Cowboys and the Bengals.

43:45The Bengals added a ton more talent. But almost invariably when you're looking at these changeovers, a play caller changes.

43:51It's almost invariably you're changing who is actually structuring the defense.

43:54The Broncos are an exception to this. The 23 Broncos.

43:56They were ninth in EPA per play in the second half of that season in 23.

44:01Like the reason they finished 30th in DBOA is that the first half of that year, we're getting 70 points dropped on us.

44:07Like the offense. Like it's the back half of the year, they were significantly better.

44:11And I do think the talent is better. Like they're just the guys they have up front.

44:16They've got a lot of bodies. They've got worthwhile depth.

44:19Like Otito Agbonio was a useful player in this system.

44:21They've got four or five edges now. The Barsham part of this is worth bringing up.

44:26Like if he's going to be a reasonable second off ball linebacker option who can walk down to the line of scrimmage

44:32in certain looks, I just think that there's more flexibility, variability, guys that fit this defense and quality players.

44:37Like the idea that right now it seems like Kobe Durant is going to be the day one second outside corner.

44:43But by all accounts, like Ravel is pushing him and is getting snaps with the ones.

44:47And so if we get to a place where, and I'm just going to talk about that a little bit time, you

44:53can play a little more dime because of that.

44:55You have three corners. You feel good about you have three safeties.

44:59You feel good about PJ lock is useful depth.

45:01Like this is not a situation where it's like, I'm looking at one or two additions that are names.

45:06I recognize and being like line, go up. Let's go.

45:09Burr. It has so much to do with the connective tissue that I think that they've done a really thoughtful job of

45:15adding over the course of this off season, where even if there aren't a lot of needle moving star level players associated

45:21with that, there are some good players and they've got a great player up front and that combined with the play caller change.

45:27Is that enough? And I'm, I'm inching there, man.

45:30I'm, I'm inching there slowly. Everything you just said to, I'm talking myself into it as we go.

45:35Everything you just said doesn't even account for the unknown of Caleb Downs.

45:38I mean, we just mentioned his name. We just don't know.

45:41Like everything you just said could happen. If Caleb Downs is fine.

45:45Caleb Downs rocks. Then we're cooking with gas. I'm open to that.

45:48He might just be fine. You might be fine.

45:50Of course. I'm open to that, but I don't think he has to be a superstar for this to be the 16th best defense in the league.

45:58Neither do I. And like, if anything, I think it's again, I think that's the thing.

46:02I think Downs will be at least fine. Like he was such a phenomenal prospect that I'm kind of willing to bake that in.

46:09I think what I was watching is how many of the other young guys that they brought in are going to pop for them.

46:15You know, they drafted Devin Moore at corner. They drafted Jason Barham, who we've talked about a little bit.

46:20Malachi Lawrence in the first round and LT Overton up front.

46:23I think if you watch the preseason, like Lawrence has popped.

46:26He's had some moments as a pass rusher, which would be great for a team that I think struggled to get home a little bit last year.

46:34And then Barham, I don't know if he's going to start.

46:37But again, if he's your weird third linebacker, who's a really good blitz player, really good come down and hit.

46:42It's like, OK, if two of these guys are useful players, that's already better depth than we had last year.

46:48You mentioned PJ Locke, who's not a rookie, but he could have started for this team last year and he's a backup now for them at safety.

46:55So like it just feels like the top line is half different starters than they had last year.

47:00And there's more depth. I just again, I don't know what the ceiling is, but it's pretty easy for me to get

47:06there on them being a lot better. What do you watch in the first month of the season?

47:11Obviously, the defense is the right answer. But in the interest of covering a diverse amount of topics, I am interested in

47:17just how much better the offensive line looks. We talked about it on a previous show.

47:21They tried to make left tackle a competition with Nate Davis going into shit.

47:25It is Nate Davis, right? Sorry. Nate Thomas. Sorry.

47:28So it was Nate Thomas. And then they were Shelton, the rookie, I think was supposed to be involved in that at one point.

47:34Drew Shelton. Drew Shelton. Like that was one of the first things said to me is like, this is an open competition.

47:40It was on day two of camp. They tried to make it a competition and Tyler Guyton shut it down.

47:46It was over like four days in immediately. And I'm just talking to people that I know down in Dallas.

47:51They're like really happy with not only Tyler Guyton's level of play, but the way that he approached not having a guaranteed job when training camp opened.

47:59So if Tyler Guyton is good, because you can't say he's been good to this point in his career.

48:04Like if he is a good left tackle, that's a big deal.

48:07I think they're expecting the sort of jump you would expect from Tyler Booker in year two.

48:12Terrence steals the big one. Clayton Adams even, you know, mentioned he talked about it within the last week about just trying to be consistent.

48:19He's been a very up and down player really for most of his career.

48:22The tackles and pass protection is a mini what's keeping you up at night.

48:26Because if there's something that can sink the offense, I think that is what I would go back to about what could sink the offense.

48:33The other thing, just because of the expectations we have for this offense, I wish they had another running back.

48:38Yeah. And explosiveness and running back. Like Blue can do that as a pass catcher.

48:43Are you going to give him enough carries where we're looking back at the end of the season and Jaden Blue had five 20 yard runs?

48:50I don't. I do think they're missing that. I don't get the vibe from just talking to people that have been at

48:56camp that Blue grabbed that and ran with it.

48:58I mean, he might be the number two back going into the season, but I just don't get the sense that they feel great about it.

49:05That's more as I think like a true change of pace player though.

49:09Yeah. Not a guy that like, again, we can give 12 carries to over the course of a game consistently that gives

49:15us a little bit more oomph than Javante Williams.

49:17So I think he had a really nice season last year, but Javante Williams is not somebody that's going to rip off

49:23a 70 yard touchdown run anytime soon. I'm not saying it's going to be some big name, but like, I just wouldn't

49:29be surprised if they add to that room, like when the rosters get cut and things like that.

49:34What is keeping you up at night, Dave, about the 2026 Dallas Cowboys?

49:38We've been talking about it for two weeks, but at this point, and not just you, I mean, you've been driving the

49:44train all off season, but just across the NFL community, the defensive turnaround feels like a fate accompli.

49:49Yeah. As long as we're using esoteric terms on the show today.

49:52I honestly, that's the part that makes me most uncomfortable.

49:55I was kind of hoping I might be out on a limb by yourself.

49:59And the fact that I'm not is that that part is maybe what has worried me the most.

50:03The Cowboys being a trendy Super Bowl pick because of a defensive turnaround that feels plausible, but is entirely theoretical keeps me up at night.

50:10It should. That's all there is to it. I kind of, I undermine myself a little bit when I looked at the DVOA stuff.

50:17I was like, okay, like there's plenty of precedent for units doing this.

50:20It's not nuts. That doesn't mean it's going to happen.

50:23And for all the teams I said had these big turnarounds, there were plenty that went from 31 to 27 or 32 to 24.

50:30And like 24 is not going to be good enough to get where you're trying to go.

50:34And I think the scarier part of the argument is 16 might be not, might not be good enough to get where

50:40you want to go with the way the last few years have gone.

50:44For the most part, you've needed to be really good on defense to get it all the way over the finish line.

50:50And so do we get to the end of the season?

50:53And it's a remarkable turnaround where we're really impressed with the metrics and just how buttoned up everything feels.

50:58But that's, what's keeping me up at night is this, that when we get into the playoffs, if we get to a

51:04place where Ravel isn't ready and Kobe Durant is your second outside corner, we just live this, we just live this.

51:10And the Rams front and the Rams pass rush is significantly better than what the Cowboys have, even if you're seeing that group up front optimistically for Dallas.

51:17So even there, it's a narrow path forward for the back seven to be good enough for you to win the biggest

51:24games of the year at the end. I even, I'm willing to admit that.

51:27And I just wonder, are we sitting there in January where this is the second best offense in the league?

51:33It's a defense that over the course of 17 games has been good enough for the them to win 11 games and be a playoff team.

51:40But when we're looking at you're having to play the Rams and divisional round weekend, how do we feel about this back seven against that passing game?

51:47That's what's keeping me up at night. But all things considered, it's a pretty decent place to land if you're the Dallas

51:53Cowboys, considering how the last couple of years have gone.

51:56For the last two years. Yeah. And again, I'm, I think I'm relatively bullish that they can do get there, but my

52:02keeping me up at night is like, for as much as I kind of buy it, it is a lot of unprovenness

52:08and theory for this defensive turnaround for, you know, what is realistically the upside case is probably, you know, 13th, 14th, 15th in DVOA.

52:15If you look back at last year, 13, 14, 15, 16 in weighted DVOA was Baltimore, Atlanta, New England, and the Raiders.

52:21Obviously New England, I think it was a little bit of a different category.

52:24They had a crazy bump at the end of the season.

52:27But for the most part, those groups of teams are like, let's take the Jaguars, for example, who did go from bad to like truly top 10.

52:35If the Jaguars defense was in that range, the 13, 14, 15, that team does not win 13 games and like have

52:41a shot to be one of the best teams in the AFC.

52:44They're more of like a just true whatever wildcard team.

52:47And so I do think that that is kind of the calculation that you're having to have here with Dallas.

52:52Yeah, I think it's offset a little bit where the Jags were a fringe top 10 offense last year.

52:58Can the Cowboys be the best offense in the league or the second best offense in the league?

53:02And like what the number says next to it, I don't really give a shit.

53:07Like, do you reach a tier where your defense only needs to clear a certain bar?

53:11And I think that is the best case scenario for this team moving forward.

53:15But even I am willing to admit, and I'll put a pin in it this way, that it is a narrow, narrow

53:21path for the defense being this thing that makes them a contender.

53:24It's just one of those things where it's like, let's have some fun, man.

53:28Like just sitting there looking at like, well, they were 30 whatever last year.

53:32Like this team made the playoffs, so they have to make the playoffs again.

53:35It never works like that. But let's just have, let's have a little fun.

53:39Let's stand on some stuff. And I think that is what I've tried to do with this team in a way that I'm not always comfortable with.

53:47I think to my own detriment. What does success look like, Derek, for the 2026 Dallas Cowboys?

53:51I think, again, it's a little bit naughty for them.

53:54But I think if we're going to say that they can be the best offense in football and they're a defense that

54:00can at least let them have some sort of run, I think you got to at least have like an honest shot at getting to the NFC championship.

54:08And I know that it's the NFC is kind of weird because I do think that like.

54:12The Rams and the Seahawks, because the Seahawks just did it, they're still a great roster and the Rams are just seem loaded.

54:19It does feel like there's a pretty big drop off in the NFC after that to me, but still four teams got to get to the final four.

54:26And so I think that there's a pretty open race for who three and four can be.

54:31I think if you're Dallas, you should really be shooting for one of those spots.

54:35I want to hear what you have to say first.

54:38I said get to the NFC championship game to me is a successful season.

54:42I think there's there's other like nuances of that when they've won playoff games before they've never really felt scary.

54:47Correct. Like if you even if you only win a wildcard game and you lose to the Rams or the Seahawks in

54:53the divisional round, do you feel like you have a shot in that game?

54:57Do you feel like a real threat in that game?

55:00And I think the other side of that is, are we sitting there in January after the Cowboys lose and I'm going

55:06to over the cap already doing the math on how they keep the roster together?

55:10That to me is success. You can only kick those contract cans so far down the road, but they can do it.

55:16If they want to zero out Dak and CD again next year, they can do it.

55:20Are we at a place where this team was so good and so compelling, even if they fell a little short where

55:26we're doing the back of the napkin math on January 15th, being like, how can they fit George Pickens onto this team next year?

55:33If we're doing that, I think that to me speaks to a successful season for the Cowboys.

55:37I'm encouraged to hear this because I just and obviously I'm really close to the situation, so it's tough for me to pull back.

55:44But in a vacuum after the two years the Cowboys have had, I think you would for most teams, you would say

55:50get back to the playoffs, win the division, set yourself up moving forward.

55:53But that's not going to be good enough for this team after what we saw from them in 2023.

55:59It just happened so many times. Exactly. It's happened so many times in an underwhelming way.

56:03Give me more than that. We want more than that.

56:06I even think, I'm glad you brought up like not looking dangerous because they won a playoff game in 2022.

56:11They beat the eight and nine bucks. Yes. Win a playoff game that feels meaningful.

56:15Beat a really good team. I think truly the only way to get people off your back if you're the Cowboys is

56:21to get back to the NFC title game or potentially go further.

56:25But I could at least make peace with it if you look like a threat in the playoffs.

56:30And that's what I set my definition at. That's where I'm at as well.

56:33And even that the Niners team they lost to was a good team, but they were completely outclassed that entire game.

56:39Even if the final score is fairly close because it was ugly as shit.

56:43They did not look like the same class. They were out of source group.

56:47They were out of source by the first drive.

56:49Like that was one of those playoff games where they come.

56:52Yeah. Cowboys playoff games. There's really only been. Playoff games by two drives in.

56:56You're just like, that team is not winning the football game.

56:59You mean like the Packers one? Also like the Packers one.

57:02Yeah. Play a playoff game where I don't say, oh no.

57:05Like in the first quarter. That's my goal for the Cowboys.

57:08They're lucky the Packers and Niners look a little bit shaky this year.

57:12Four of their five playoff losses with Dak Prescott are two the Niners and two the Packers.

57:16So they're lucky that it's all one of those teams.

57:19When Jordan Love put 60 on Christian Parker when it's all said and done, that is a fate worse than death for me.

57:25Is the Packers just destroying the Cowboys defense in the playoffs on multiple fronts?

57:29That'd be hard for me to live with. All right.

57:32Before we get to the Commanders preview, let's take our next quick break.

57:35Let's get to the Washington Commanders. Our preview for the 2026 Commanders.

57:39They're offseason in 60 seconds. David Blau and as the offensive coordinator, Durante Jones and as the defensive coordinator, this is going

57:45to take me maybe more than a minute. Odafe Owe, Chico Kakua, Leo Chanel, Tim Settle, Meek Robertson, Nick Cross, Klayman Chason, all in free agency.

57:52Rashad White, part of this. Chris Paul back to play left guard for this team.

57:56Lost Tyler Biotish. A lot of context with that one.

57:59Kicked Tyler Biotish to the curve for reasons that are still unclear.

58:02Lost Von Miller, Chris Rodriguez, and moved on from Debo Samuel in the draft.

58:06We'll make back some time here. Sonny Stiles in the first round.

58:09Antonio Williams, the receiver in the third round. Dave, what are you most excited about watching with the 2026 Washington Commanders?

58:15Two years is an eternity in the NFL, but a healthy Jaden Daniels has proven he can make chicken salad out of chicken shit before.

58:22And he did it in 2024 without Laramie Tunsil.

58:24So the fact that Tunsil is out for the year, it definitely sucks.

58:28But, you know, Jaden's made do with less before, and I'm hoping he can stay healthy long enough to do it again.

58:34I would love to see Jaden Daniels and Terry McLaurin both healthy play football again together this year.

58:39That would be really fun. And with one other player who will...

58:42I'm on the field last year. Really? It sounds like it is a...

58:45It's an older duo than you would prefer. But Terry McLaurin and Stephon Diggs, if Stephon Diggs looks remotely like the guy

58:51from last year, I could talk myself into that.

58:54Two of my receiver crushes from the last decade or so.

58:57I'm enjoying that. I can work with that. And that's the thing.

59:00I've tried to not attach myself to receivers I once had an affinity for like eight years ago in situations that I'm

59:06watching after the Keenan Allen to the Bears experiment.

59:09But I'll hear your Stephon Diggs, Terry McLaurin thing and try to get excited about it.

59:13Diggs was good, though, last year. He was! He was good last year!

59:17And that was him coming off of injury stuff.

59:19Like, he was pretty good for them last year.

59:21And also, like, even if he's not great, even if he's just 90% of what he even was last year, who was

59:27the second best pass catcher or wide receiver for the commanders when Jaden Daniels did this as a rookie?

59:33Noah Brown? Olamide Zaccheaus or something? Like, it's like, it's...

59:35Deami Brown. Yeah, Deami Brown, maybe? Who was like a very specific just throwing screens and go ball sort of player.

59:41The fact that Stephon Diggs is... And I also think it's...

59:44I've come around on them maybe being able to make the offense work because of Stephon Diggs.

59:49And I think the reason being, I think what he's really good at at this stage in his career and was really

59:55good at with Drake May is being like a zone beater.

59:58Just like getting to spots, getting to landmarks, using a little bit of space to make himself clear.

60:03Jaden Daniels is really good at that. He's like a very good throw to a spot in a zone player.

60:08And I do think that that marriage could be kind of nice for them.

60:12If there's optimism to be found about the commanders, and I think they would tell you this, it's that people have forgotten

60:18how special the quarterback is after the way that last year went.

60:21And I... If you're a skeptic, I completely understand that too.

60:24He did it one time. And it was really impressive.

60:27But he did it one time in extremely specific circumstances.

60:30And even when he was out there last year, their numbers last season on offense were worse with him than they were with Marcus Mariota.

60:37And so if you want to be a Jaden Daniels skeptic or a Jaden Daniels hater and be like, I haven't seen

60:43enough to believe that he's just going to hit the ground running again.

60:46This is going to be great. I would understand that.

60:49I think they are of the belief that people have forgotten what the quarterback is in a decent situation.

60:54And I think they're going to be reminded of that this year.

60:57The only caveat there is, is this a decent situation?

61:00My cynical response to that was going to be, I hope they're right.

61:04And I haven't given up on Jaden Daniels. You can't.

61:06You signed a contract in blood sometime over the last few years.

61:10I... Like, what options have the commanders given us to be excited about besides hoping Jaden is awesome.

61:15The fact that that's the only answer, that's the disappointing and concerning.

61:18We might be right, but it's almost an answer by default.

61:21Yes. But Derek has a different answer about what he's most excited to watch over the first...

61:26Well, I do. Of course. What he's most excited to watch about this team.

61:29Yeah, listen, this is... It's very rare I pick one specific player, but this is a player that I thought was incredible.

61:35I'm so excited to watch Sonny Stiles, man. Like, I...

61:38By the way, the discourse about him in the preseason game, was bizarre.

61:42He had a play... It was so weird. He had a play where they run, like, zone read to his side, but,

61:48like, the defensive end is chasing, and Stunny Stiles is filling his gap inside the tight end.

61:52Like, he's doing his job, and he gets, like, washed down a little bit, but it's like he's fitting the spot.

61:58Anyway, he did what... He did his job on the play, and everybody else kind of screwed up.

62:03The safety is running to Timbuktu. I don't know where he's going.

62:06So, anyway, I just think even when you watch him in the preseason, even if, like, it's only been a handful of

62:12drives here and there, and he hasn't necessarily made any spectacular plays yet, the movement skills are just...

62:17Oh, my God. ...unbelievable, man. Like, you just see him run.

62:20You see him... The stop-start for a guy his size is just, like...

62:24He's a really, really special mover. And so, I'm excited to watch what it looks like in...

62:28And, you know, we'll talk about this a little bit, in a defense that is pretty remade.

62:33Like, it's going to be some of the same defensive ideas, but they've got, like, six or seven new starters, including Sonny Styles.

62:39And so, I'm just really interested to see what that looks like.

62:43I don't know if it will be the same defensive ideas.

62:46I mean, we're going from... Is it going from Jones, right?

62:49Yeah. I mean, they want to do the Vikings stuff.

62:51I mean, I think that's what they're trying to tap into.

62:54And I think that brings me to what I'm watching the first month of the season.

62:59And I'm curious what David Blau is going to get from this offense that Cliff Kingsbury couldn't.

63:03And so, I think if you look at the moves that Washington made with the coordinator choices, the defense is not negotiable.

63:09Like, it was a disaster last year. Like, something needed to change.

63:13And so, I think on defense, they wanted to go seek out a system and an approach that is hard to pin down.

63:19And that's been the problem with the Dan Quinn world for a while now, is that if you're going to play a

63:25lot of single high and you want to play a lot of man and you don't have the horses, teams are going to pick on you.

63:32And that's exactly what has happened to Washington. Like, it just became so simple where they didn't have...

63:37And they didn't have good players that it all just starts to fall apart.

63:41This defense, I think, is harder to pin down.

63:43It puts you on edge. Just think about the way that the Vikings play.

63:47I mean, they're the ones on the front foot consistently.

63:50And I think it's about optionality. It's about what you have to account for as an offense in any situation.

63:55I think the other part of it is, and I don't know how quickly this happens because you need guys who are

64:01fluent in the system and veterans in order to make this work.

64:05The amount of variability and flexibility built into the Vikings system is crazy, right?

64:08And so, you'll have like three plays in the huddle and they'll come out.

64:12And talking to people there is so interesting about the way that their check system works compared to a lot of other

64:18check systems where if you come out and you're a normal team, you're a quarters team, there's a chance you have six

64:24adjustments based on how you're going to play it based on what formation or front they're in.

64:29What your check is, is an adjustment. The Vikings will go to completely different coverages and completely different play calls based on

64:35what the offense is presenting to them. And so, the changes are more dramatic, but there are actually fewer of them.

64:41But being able to live in that system, the Vikings had a place where they were a veteran laden team where guys had done this for years.

64:48Washington is completely turning over a huge portion of its defensive personnel.

64:51But I think the motivation behind it is, can we be harder to play against?

64:55And the exact same thing is true of the offense.

64:58If you look at the numbers, Cliff was like middle of the pack last year with Jaden missing a huge chunk of the season.

65:05And they were really good in 24. Cliff Kingsbury did a really good job as the offensive coordinator for the commanders.

65:10The argument is, can we be harder to play against?

65:13Every run concept is on the table if we're under center.

65:16If we're using more play action, if we're doing all these different things, can we just be harder to play against?

65:22I think that is the goal on both sides of the ball.

65:25On defense, you can get me there pretty easily.

65:28On offense, it's one of those, I think, be careful what you wish for sort of things.

65:32Because I think Cliff did a good enough job where you moved on from him because you thought you'd get a little bit more somewhere else.

65:39Can you actually get that in the way that you believed you could when you hired this guy?

65:44And like Cliff, you know, I think Jaden is obviously going to be able to develop and do some more stuff down his career.

65:51But like the Cliff Kingsbury offense was pretty fit to exactly the things that he's good at, where it's a lot of

65:57like open quick game where he's able to fit windows into that.

66:00It's a little bit of RPO. It's a lot of those deep outside the numbers go balls.

66:05It's a lot of like pick aside stuff. You add the quarterback run game.

66:09Like it just felt like they had a lot.

66:11And also, they played a ton of no huddle and tempo.

66:14Like they were a team that like still, it felt like Chip Kelly like back in 2012.

66:19Like they were that style of offense. I just don't think they're going to do as much of that with David Blau.

66:25You might still because the quarterback is comfortable with it.

66:27But what the Washington was doing with Cliff was such an outlier compared to every other team.

66:32There's just so many unknowns. And at least again, like you mentioned with the defense, you can get yourself there with the

66:38unknown because they've just added so much more talent.

66:41And they've added a little bit of talent to Washington's offense.

66:44But I think when you add in some of the offensive line questions, especially now with Laramie Tunsell missing a lot of

66:50the season, it's a little bit harder to like get yourself there confidently.

66:53If the commanders had had a better season last year or were going into this season with a little more excitement and

66:59anticipation, David Blau would be one of the most interesting figures in the entire league landscape.

67:04Like, yes, it is completely flying under the radar that he was the assistant quarterbacks coach last year, got promoted to quarterbacks

67:10coach because Tavita Pritchard took a college head coaching job, Stanford.

67:13That's where he played, took the Stanford job three quarters of the way through the season.

67:17And then a month later, got promoted to play calling OC in his first year coaching in the NFL because Cliff Kingsbury left.

67:23He went he was playing two years ago. And so like all we have to go on is that he spent four

67:29years with Ben Johnson in Detroit as a player, not even as a coach player as a player.

67:34And that is the offense they're going to try to run.

67:37I mean, he has never coached it before. Detroit is the one that gets linked to him most often.

67:42But I also that's right. He also spent time with Kevin O'Connell, too.

67:46And obviously, Cliff, he was in Arizona as a player and Cliff brought him to Washington.

67:50So a lot of interesting guys that could make an impression on him and absolutely zero to go on like absolutely nothing.

67:56And he's 31 years old. I don't know. It's I can't wait to watch it.

68:00I have no idea how to break it down much deeper than that.

68:04I think this could be among all of the under center pivots we're going to see from every team this year.

68:10I think this could be the most dramatic offensive change we see in the NFL this season.

68:14Washington was 87 percent shotgun last year. Eighty seven percent.

68:17I had it at 90 on the site. I looked.

68:20I was like, the true media is 87 percent.

68:22They are going to be, I think, a dramatically more under center team this year.

68:26And I think Derek mentioning it design quarterback runs.

68:29I don't think they'll do as much of that this year, in part because they're fixated on the quarterback's health.

68:34And so I think it's going to be just a very dramatically different offensive approach.

68:38And whether that works remains to be seen. You know, I think the argument kind of is a little bit similar to

68:44me, not even just in terms of what they're seeking out, but where David Blau comes from.

68:49What does Ben Johnson just talk about? Oh, I'd nauseam.

68:52The only thing Ben Johnson cares about is explosives.

68:54It's the only thing he cares about. He talks about it all the time.

68:58And I think that is the mindset that they're going to try to adopt within this offense.

69:03Even when they were good in 24, it's not an explosive offense.

69:06They were 24th in explosive pass rate. Like Derek was alluded to.

69:09It's a lot of catch it and go. A lot of quick game.

69:13A lot of underneath stuff. A lot of very fast decisions and very like get the ball out of my hands quickly type stuff.

69:19And I just don't think that's what this is going to look like.

69:23I think they're going to try to be more vertical.

69:26I think they're going to try to take more shots.

69:28Again, does that work? Can your offensive line hold up even in a play action world?

69:33We have no tonsil now. The center situation feels really scary where they move from Badish to Allegretti.

69:38Allegretti's been banged up. Is he going to even win that job?

69:41There's just so many things about the line and so many questions about the play caller and the structure where this could

69:47work because you're potentially getting more explosive with an exciting quarterback.

69:50This could be a disaster. I am open to it being one of those offenses that just bottoms out and that we maybe didn't see coming.

69:57I don't think that's off the table with this team.

70:00I mean, I don't think that's off the table at all.

70:03Not to necessarily step on the next segment. That is my keeping me up at night.

70:07It's like, what if this... What if it just doesn't really all make sense together?

70:11And what if the offensive line is not able to do some of the stuff they want to do?

70:16What if they don't really have the personnel to do some of the stuff they want to do?

70:21Because like... And that's my other question. To me, it still feels like a personnel group that should be more gun and spread.

70:28Like when Stephon Diggs and Terry McLaurin are your two best receivers and the guy you draft is like a slot only,

70:34that to me feels like more you should be a little bit more gun open.

70:38Chico Conquo being your leading tight end. That to me feels like you should be a little bit more spread and gun open.

70:44Your running backs bring Ja'Cory Krosky, Merritt, and Rashad White, who Rashad White is a really good pass catching back.

70:50Like, seems to me like you should be... Have, you know, the flexibility of having him in gun where he can be

70:56out in the route or out in protection for you a little bit easier.

70:59Like, it just... I wonder how they make that work with what is supposed to be a more under-center approach.

71:05Well, things I'd say to that. I think Blau being there in Detroit when they were figuring out how to use Laporta

71:11early on, and they had to hide him a little bit as a blocker in some of those 12 personnel looks.

71:17Does some of that stuff apply to Okonkwo? Where we have John Bates, right?

71:20And if we want to be a 12 team, and I honestly think their 12 is probably their best personnel grouping, do

71:26we have enough ideas where we can mitigate the fact that Okonkwo is not that credible of a blocker?

71:32I think that's the optimistic case, but I think that's there to be made.

71:35With the running back, I think the argument would be Ja'Cory Krosky, Merritt, this style and this offense actually fits him better

71:41than the previous one did, where he can be a little bit more of a downhill runner.

71:46Again, these are all the things that sound great on August 5th, where like, oh, no, it's actually going to be better for these guys.

71:53It's just there's a lot of wait and see.

71:55And this is one of those where I'll be...

71:58You're okay. You're okay doing that. This is one of those where I'm like, you know what?

72:02I'm cool being a little bit wait and see with this one.

72:06What is keeping you up at night, Dave, about the 2026 Washington Commanders?

72:09Before I say that, I will allow me to...

72:12I'm just going to put my pig snout on for like one second, because while we were talking about this, it made me think it's not a one-to-one.

72:19But if you're optimistic or hopeful for the Commanders this season, the Dallas defense situation is not that different from what's going

72:25on in Washington in the sense of what there's three or four major players left over from last year's defense and you're

72:31bringing in a new voice from a very successful defensive system in Durante Jones.

72:35I thought you were talking about... I thought you were saying the Washington offense situation.

72:39Yeah, for a second I was like, I don't know.

72:42I was like, wait a second. No, no, no.

72:45The personnel is not better than us last year.

72:47I'm talking about the defense. Yes. They spent a mint to get it, but the defensive talent is entirely different.

72:52And I assume at least somewhat upgraded, even if you had to pay a premium.

72:57Like, even if these guys aren't superstars, I think it's better.

73:00And so like if Durante Jones brings some of the Brian Flores magic dust, maybe this could be a lot better than

73:06I'm giving credit for in the same way that we talk about the Dallas defense.

73:10Having said the nice part of it, what keeps me awake at night is what if we spent $150 million for a defense that's still not good?

73:17But here's my problem. When you spend $150 million, it means you're not good.

73:21True. And to that point, it probably means you're overpaying in at least some places.

73:25It's really, really, really hard to build a good team through free agency.

73:29And if you're trying to extend the Brian Flores thing one step forward, that's actually the best possible, the best case scenario here.

73:35The Vikings had to build that team through free agency because they had drafted so poorly.

73:39That's what Washington is hoping for. If we can build in the right set of veterans and we have a scheme that

73:45can lift these guys and make things really hard on the offenses we're playing against, does it matter that we swung and missed on three straight drafts?

73:53That's the hope. It's really, really hard to do that.

73:55Brian Flores is a singular defensive personality in the league that has been able to do that.

74:00The commanders right now are over the cap. 32nd in the league in the number of rookie contracts they have on their books.

74:06Yeah, they haven't made any. They haven't made any picks.

74:09It's just hard to win that way. It's just really, really hard to win that way.

74:13And I think if you sense an underlying pessimism about this team, I think that's what it all comes back to.

74:19It's like, how many difference making rookie contract players are on the Washington commanders?

74:23And it's, you know, maybe this is not very few, very few.

74:26And again, what I'm going to say is not necessarily a consideration like in a one year window, but what you're talking

74:32about with them being having the fewest rookie contracts on your books, like you can sign these five or six free agents

74:38and I think they'll be good for them. Like I think Leo Chennault can be nice to them.

74:43Odafe Owe is going to give them more in the past rush than they had.

74:47I think Amik Robertson is actually a pretty good fit for, I think, what they want to do.

74:52The problem is when you're spending that much money on defense and you're spending on free agents, it's really hard to get

74:58surplus value on free agents, especially when it's that many of them.

75:01Whereas rookie contracts, like if Sonny Stiles is incredible, you get surplus value on him.

75:06But on defense, you just don't have almost hardly any of those.

75:09You spent a fifth round pick on Joshua Josephs, but that's kind of it.

75:13And so I think it's just that's where it comes down to is that if all of these free agents are only

75:1970% of what you paid for, which is often the reality for a free agent.

75:23Sure, they're better. But like to what end, especially if the offense doesn't take a step.

75:27That's where I came down to like Odafe Owe is a good player.

75:31He's only cracked 50 pressures once in his career.

75:33He's 27 years old, like he's not a young player.

75:36You paid a premium for that. And I'm sure he'll he will produce.

75:39But will it be enough for what you paid?

75:42Caleb on chase on. He's my guy. Go Tigers.

75:44But you're talking about eight games where he was like a difference maker for the Patriots as opposed to the rest of his career.

75:51I am curious about Chanel because I assume Durante Jones is going to play a shitload more base.

75:56And so I assume he'll be on the field more in Washington than he was in Kansas City.

76:01You've brought up Tim Settle before. It's a tough look when you let Tim Settle out of your building and then pay

76:07him a premium to come back after he spends two years on the best one of the best defenses in football.

76:13Like that is unideal team building. It's it's it's sign that you have a bad roster.

76:17Yeah. Yes. And that there are just so many signs that this team has a bad roster.

76:22And that's my concern. Nick Cross, though, is going to be the man, especially playing in this scheme.

76:26I'm calling my shot right now. Nick Cross. But he's just one man.

76:30He can't. He's going to the Hall of Fame, but he can't turn this whole thing around by himself.

76:35It is. You can do this. And I think my what I would say is like how many true field tilting players

76:41does Washington's defense have right now, even after spending all of that money?

76:45If Sonny Styles is really that good that quickly, maybe it changes the conversation.

76:49But that's a tough position. It's and I think the mental side is going to come along slowly for him, not to no fault of his own.

76:56Like it's just how that position works. And so then again, I think you'd point to Minnesota and you would say how

77:02many true field tilting players with the Vikings had over the last few years.

77:06If Durante Jones is Brian Flores, all this shit matters less.

77:09Yeah. I just think it's really, really hard to be Brian Flores.

77:12Nobody else has been. And that's kind of what's what's keeping me up.

77:16And I part of this is this just this team.

77:18It just feels like it could be a ghost ship.

77:21Like we're just sitting there in week seven and we're just riding this thing out over the course of the year.

77:27It's like we're done. Like we've played out the string like they just don't have it like this.

77:32The draft, the misdrafts and the fact that there's just not that underlying level of talent on this team, we're just in

77:38a place where it's time to hit the reset button.

77:41And I that's what's keeping me up at night is that that doesn't feel like a remote far off possibility.

77:46That's just such a sad place to arrive, given how 18 months ago we were excited about as excited about where this

77:52team could go as any team in the league.

77:54And like, you know, we've compared them a little bit to like how the Texans kind of, you know, kind of had

78:00a really good rookie year with their quarterback. And then things were, you know, they spent a lot and things got weird for them.

78:07The Texans are still a great team like they are imperfect.

78:10And I think I've not built around their young quarterback as much as you want, but they are still a great football team overall.

78:17That's just not been the case with Washington. So for them to have wasted what potentially have wasted what is going to

78:23be Jaden Daniels is rookie window and then have to go into the window where you're going to start paying him still

78:29probably picking up the pieces from this era. If things go poorly this year, it's just a really frustrating place to have ended up.

78:35When you spend, when you, when you trade multiple picks and then spend money on a left tackle, you throw so many

78:41resources that player, and then that player gets hurt on top of all of the picks you've missed out on.

78:47You, you arrive in this place. Like, and I think this is the place that the Washington commanders have arrived.

78:52All right. On that note, what does success look like Derek for the 2026 Washington commanders?

78:56I really think it just all comes down to like, does Jaden Daniels feel like the guy that we thought he was after his rookie season?

79:04Cause I, I almost, at least for me, like the wins don't really matter here.

79:08I think if he looks good and hopefully Sonny styles, like if your cornerstone young pieces, the few of them that you

79:14have feel like they are that, that to me is success.

79:17I sound like a backhanded compliment, but don't you think it would be nice if the commanders just had an unremarkable year?

79:23Yeah. Wouldn't it be nice to just kind of be there?

79:26Because the phrase I used was steadying the ship.

79:28Can you steady the ghost ship? We are back on our bullshit where the commanders in my adult life are either a surprising supernova of fun and success.

79:36Well, they happened one time, but yeah. It happened twice.

79:39Jaden two years ago and RG3. Oh, I guess that's true.

79:42I guess that's true. They, it was 15 years ago.

79:44They're either the story of the year or they're just a flaming disaster.

79:48And wouldn't it be nice if the commanders just like, if, if some of these decisions panned out, like if David Blau

79:54is good at his job and Jaden and he can buoy the offense and some of these defensive contracts hit, if that

80:00happens, you can flirt with like eight and nine, right?

80:03Yeah. The commanders can flirt with 500 and maybe even be in the, in the hunt graphic at the end of the year.

80:09And I think that part is okay. It wouldn't win them the division in the NFC East, but if they are last year's Panthers, that's like probably fine.

80:17Just be unremarkable. And like, uh, that's not the longterm goal, but just be a normal NFL team where like Robert said,

80:23like when they played that Madrid game last year against Miami, it was just the most depressing thing that's ever happened.

80:28And like, I just don't want to be bummed out when I turn on a commanders game.

80:33That would be nice. So step in the right direction.

80:36I think on the far end of what is success, uh, do the guys you hired, are they the right guys?

80:41Do they feel like the right guys that, that to me is non-negotiable because if that isn't the case, then there's no

80:47way this commander season is a success. Get to our last one here.

80:51The New York giants are preview for the 2026 New York giants.

80:54They're off season in 60 seconds. Hire John Harbaugh as the head coach.

80:58Matt Nagy is the offensive coordinator. Denard Wilson is the defensive coordinator.

81:01Signed Isaiah likely brought back Jermaine, Jermaine, Jermaine, Jermaine, Jermaine, Jermaine, Edmonds, Greg Newsome, our Darius, Washington, Darnell Mooney, lost Wando Robinson,

81:07Cordell Flott, Daniel Bellinger, and Greg Van Roten in free agency in the draft had a lot of picks Arvel Reese and

81:13Francis Maui Noah, not only in the first round in the top 10 Colton hood in the second round Malachi fields, the receiver in the third round.

81:20Dave, what are you most excited about as it relates to the 2026 New York giants?

81:25Well, as I alluded to when I drafted them in the defense's draft, which that keeps me up at night, by the way.

81:31But I'm excited to watch Denard Wilson working with what I think is a pretty talented defense.

81:36And that has bitten me before, specifically with the New York giants.

81:39But Denard Wilson, I think so highly of him.

81:42I think highly of the job that he's done.

81:44And 2025 in Tennessee was not good. But in 2024, they were 12th in defensive success rate.

81:49They were a top 10 defense by yards per play.

81:51And that's without really other than Jeffrey Simmons, a whole lot in the way of of fantastic football players.

81:57And so to put him in New York with Brian Burns and Abdul Carter, which I think Abdul Carter is he's blowing up this year.

82:03I mean, that's great. Bold take, Dave. The top three pick in the draft is good at football.

82:08But like Abdul Carter is going to kick ass this year.

82:11The flashes last year were truly crazy. 11th in the league in pressures as a rookie.

82:16It's not even just that. Like that that's the word.

82:18It's his number worth throwing out when you watch him move.

82:21There is one guy in the league who I think moves like that.

82:25One guy. He wears number one in Green Bay.

82:27Yeah, that's there are very few human beings that have that level of explosion and change of direction ability and flexibility.

82:33And I think that the thing, too, that like Nick Benito, I think, is a great player.

82:38The difference between a Nick Benito and a Micah Parsons is that the core strength and balance for their size is absolutely bonkers.

82:44And I think Carter is a little bit closer to the Parsons side on that.

82:48It's the flexibility and the bend and the strength while you like the strength through those positions.

82:53Like that is just a and even some of like the off ball spinner stuff and what he can do in one

82:59on one situations and rushing over the guard. Like, yeah, Mike is the guy that just he reminds me of the most.

83:05And I'm with both of you guys like I they have transformers in the front seven, two of them specifically.

83:10And I know we've gotten into trouble here in the past where we focus on the pass rushing so much that you forget about the fundamentals of defense.

83:18I understand run defense has bitten Giants in the past.

83:21Dexter Lawrence is a big loss, but DJ reader Shelby Harris, I think Denard Wilson from the sounds of just reading through

83:27Giants camp notes, I think Chauncey Golston, who people forget is in New York now.

83:31I think he'll have a larger role on this defense.

83:34Tremaine Edmonds is not amazing, but I think you can just stabilize this enough to give guys like Abdul Carter and Brian

83:40Burns a chance to rush the passer. And then on top of that, Derek, I think you you said recently, is there

83:46an amazing blue chip DB in the Giants secondary?

83:48I don't think so. But I think Denard Wilson has a collection of players that he can work with.

83:53And with all the goofy types of shit he likes to do, I just think he's got enough options to have some

83:59fun with, particularly with pass rushers like that up front.

84:02And I just I think the end result could be pretty fun.

84:05And I regret feeling this way already. But God help me.

84:08There is a chance that the linebacker duo for the Giants, even in year one with Arbel Reese, is one of the

84:14most improved groups in the entire league. Bobby O'Carake played 1100 snaps for his team last year, currently not on the team.

84:20And now we have Jermaine Edmonds. Mike McFadden is playing a lot for them.

84:24Is it I always get the Cowboys guy and the Giants guy mixed up.

84:28It's like Leo Fowler, Darius Mensah. One of one of those Moussa.

84:31They had a different guy playing a lot of snaps last year who will not be playing snaps.

84:36It was Moussa. And then also Darius Flanagan Fowles played 225 snaps last year.

84:40The linebacker situation was heinous. Yes. And it should be significantly better this year.

84:44And Reese is it. We'll see what happens with some of the coverage stuff and just the like the mental burden of playing linebacker.

84:50I'm really excited about him as a player. We've already seen that downhill thumper shit in preseason.

84:55Like the run defense is going to be better than it was last year, even if Dexter Lawrence is not here.

85:01Every time he's met a fullback in the hole, nuclear explosion.

85:04Like he's just killing people. It looks awesome. And so, like you said, I think he's got a little bit of like

85:10a young puppy energy to him where he is a little bit quick to just trigger on stuff and go and run and hit.

85:16But I mean, that's kind of to be expected with some of these young linebackers.

85:20And for there's going to be a couple of negative plays with that.

85:24There's going to be a lot of plays where he's just destroying a guard and putting them straight in the running back's face.

85:30Like I just he's a guy where I think I was willing to buy what the pure linebacker tape looked like coming out of college.

85:37At least what we've seen in preseason. It's like, yep, that guy's going to be just fine being a stack player.

85:43Think about the uptick in talent at linebacker and then at the front.

85:46I will give you $100 right now if you can tell me who the edge player that led the Titans in pressures was last year.

85:53God. Was it Draymond Jones before he got traded?

85:56Before he got traded? That would be a funnier answer, but it is not Draymond Jones.

86:00I don't know. It was Jihad Ward. Oh, wow.

86:02The way that you were saying it, I knew it wasn't going to be the guy they drafted a couple of years ago.

86:09Wow. Jihad Ward. That's it. I love the I love the mental image of like, you know, Deontay Banks hasn't panned out to this point in his career.

86:16And we'll see, like, is Paulson Adebo worth the money?

86:19Like from where Denard Wilson is coming from, he's like, look at all this talent.

86:23This is incredible. Like, like I said, he's got bodies to work with him and Patrick Graham having similar summers.

86:29Yeah, for real. Very similar summers. And honestly, that's kind of my like, what am I watching?

86:33And I think it's kind of on both ends where like on one hand, I think Javon Holland is the only player

86:39I'm certain is very good in that secondary. Like, I think he's not.

86:43I think he can be a rock star. The other guys, I'm like, it's a little bit of he's OK or he's got some flaws.

86:50Like I think Andrew Phillips does some nice stuff, but I think running with guys one on one and coverage is a

86:56little bit up and down to the point that you just made, though, Dave, this is still much better than anything that he had in Tennessee.

87:03And so even if there's a little bit of hemming and hawing with how good are these guys really?

87:08Do we have that many star star caliber talents?

87:11I think if the pass rush is what we want and they can kind of solidify what the starting roles are supposed

87:17to be by the time we get to, you know, the fourth or fifth week of the season, you can start to

87:23see what the upside case here is supposed to be for the defense.

87:26I think we just forget or we don't sit in it enough when we talk about what having a truly horrendous, like

87:32comically bad bottom of the league run defense does for you.

87:35It makes everything impossible. And that's what happened with this team last year.

87:39Like you look at the numbers. We're talking about like a 50 percent rushing success rate.

87:43This is like 2024 Panthers adjacent stuff. And if you are that, it's just the defense just starts to fall apart.

87:49It starts to disintegrate in your hands, even if you have decent players.

87:52And so them getting to a place where they're just playing an acceptable level of run defense that allows you to start

87:58feeling the pass rushers in a way that you couldn't last year, even if it's an imperfect group.

88:03And I will talk about this. The interior defensive line still is making me a little bit itchy.

88:08I am like we've seen the names, but those guys are getting up there.

88:12Shelby Harris is my age at this point. And so that area of it holds me back a little bit.

88:17But I do just think this whole thing, the floor, especially with the run defense, is going to be so much higher than it was last year.

88:25And that allows the other guys to be unlocked in the way where you feel them over the course of a game

88:31that we just haven't in a way we haven't over the last couple of seasons.

88:35What are you watching the first month of the season with this Giants team?

88:39Fun moment that I had prepping for this show is when I look back over the season and reminded myself that Jackson

88:45Dart got to play a quarter and a half with Malik Neighbors.

88:48Malik Neighbors caught two balls from Jackson Dart before his season was done.

88:52So I have all eyes on Malik Neighbors. It's we joked during the summer about, you know, Harbaugh had all these cryptic

88:58updates about his health and the second surgery. Haven't seen too many hiccups during training camp, but his red non-contact jersey just came off.

89:04And he just started practicing full. And I think he even, he like exited practice early his first day back, which I

89:10think it's okay, but I'm anxious about this. And so he's been moving extremely well.

89:14Yeah. And that, that's the most encouraging part to me is the fact that he's looked explosive.

89:19He's looked normal. He's looked like Malik Neighbors, even in the limited types of work we've gotten to see from him.

89:25I want to see that in the regular season and preferably quickly.

89:28I go. Hopefully the ramp up is, is smooth.

89:30Look at Dave watching Jaden Daniels and Malik Neighbors.

89:33I could have guessed. I didn't want to draw attention to that fact.

89:36It's not my fault that the LSU guys are the best players on their team.

89:41Like that's not my fault. It's not my fault that I went to a football factory where all the best, most explosive,

89:47exciting players in the league happened to be LSU Tigers.

89:49He is right about that. At one point in time, that was true.

89:53Not so much these days. That is a zeroed in.

89:56What am I watching on the offense? Mine's going to be a little zoomed out.

90:00What is this offense? Yeah. That just gives me a great question.

90:03That's what I'm watching over the first month of the season.

90:06I don't know. I just don't know the answer coming into it.

90:09I think there is an inclination to believe Matt Nagy.

90:12We're going to be in the gun. We're going to do some RPOs.

90:16That's how this is going to be. It actually fits with Jackson Dart skill set.

90:20Let's do some of that. They come out in the preseason.

90:23First, like three plays under center, two back downhill runs, which I guess makes sense.

90:27Greg Roman is there. And so Patrick Ricard is there.

90:29So I just, that's my question. It's what is the offense?

90:32What do they want to be? What is the identity?

90:35What sort of stuff do they lean into? I mean, what sort of personnel groupings do we see with this team?

90:41Is it a situation where we're going to see a lot of two tight end stuff with Ricard and likely in the

90:47way that you would have in Baltimore? How does Theo Johnson get involved here?

90:51What are the other pass catching spots? Like on the other side of Malik neighbors, how much Maokai fields do we get?

90:57What is the mix between him and Darius Slayton?

90:59Calvin Austin just tore his ACL. I just, that's my question.

91:02The only thing about this offense where it's like, I feel good about what this is going to look like.

91:08And I feel optimistic about the group overall. I think this offensive line has a chance to be really fun.

91:13Like that. If Andrew Thomas, Andrew Thomas coming back healthy, you know, plus you drop Maui, Maui Noah in there.

91:19Jermaine Illuminor has played really good football for them.

91:21I do think that has a chance to be a real strength of this thing.

91:25Other than that, shrug. Like, I just don't know what to expect from this team.

91:29And that's both in terms of quality, but also in terms of approach, because there are just so many different ideas being

91:35cobbled together to form what they want this plan to look like.

91:39You know what though? I'm glad you mentioned the preseason work and it looking a little bit more under center, a little

91:45bit more heavy, a little bit more stuff like that.

91:47Because I actually think a player that Jackson Dart profiles a little bit similarly to, to me is like a Jalen Hurts.

91:53When he's not always the snappiest passer, but I think when you get him to where he wants to go, he's very accurate.

92:00The pocket movement can be a little bit herky jerky and up and down, but when he gets outside of the pocket, he's really dangerous.

92:06You can design a little bit of a run game for him.

92:10The RPO stuff, I think is absolutely part of his game.

92:13And so I think if they're going to, and again, like Jalen Hurts, I think some of Dart's best stuff, if you're

92:19just going to try to unlock whatever he has in terms of arm talent, it's not trying to throw lasers over the middle.

92:25Like he can do that a little bit, but that's not what you want.

92:29I think you want to let him just kind of chuck it and throw some of those posts and, you know, deep

92:35downfield to Malachi Fields, Malik Neighbors and stuff like that.

92:38And so if they can streamline him a little bit in that way, which, you know, construction wise, it looked a little

92:44bit different at Ole Miss, but like that's what they were doing at Ole Miss.

92:48It was a lot of like two and three man just shot play stuff and just being like, hey man, this is going to be open.

92:55How about you throw it? And he's accurate enough to do that.

92:58And so in the best case scenario, that's probably what it looks like.

93:02How much confidence I have that they arrive there.

93:04I think this is another one of those I want to wait and see.

93:08I don't know what the offense is going to look like.

93:11I don't know what to reasonably expect from the quarterback within this offense.

93:15Like he just had such a weird rookie year.

93:17There's a lot to attach yourself to. I mean, the off schedule playmaking, some of the stuff he was doing with his

93:23legs, the accuracy that Derek is talking about, that there are some things where you start to stack them up and you can get excited about Jackson Dart.

93:31But there was just as much where if you remove scrambles, he was 26 in the paper drop back last year.

93:36Like the off schedule stuff was a necessary component to him pumping up those numbers to a place where if you didn't,

93:42if you removed all the contacts, you'd be like, oh, for a rookie quarterback, it's actually pretty good.

93:47But then you actually start to dig into it a little bit more.

93:51And it's like, well, I don't know. I have no idea what to do with this because so much of it was off schedule with his legs.

93:58That is doing a lot of heavy lifting for those numbers looking as decent as they do.

94:03And you know what's funny with that is like comparing the rookie quarterbacks.

94:06And we probably talked about this a little bit when we did that show.

94:10Jackson Dart's numbers like in the aggregate by the end, like it looks pretty solid for a rookie quarterback.

94:15But like you're saying, the vacillations down to down are crazy.

94:18Like some of his worst plays were terrible. And some of the best plays were really, really cool.

94:23Tyler Shuck was like, not that we're talking about the Saints, but Tyler Shuck was the opposite where the highs were kind of just like fine.

94:30But the down to down operation, you were like, oh, I can buy that.

94:34And like that profile with that production is a little bit easier to buy.

94:38Whereas for me, I think when the vacillations are so up and down, I'm a little bit more curious of like, okay, are your highs really specific?

94:46And like how much can they actually tap into them?

94:48I mean, outside of the truly elite MVP candidates, Jackson Dart was one of the most entertaining quarterbacks in the league last year.

94:55Yeah. In the preseason, he got annihilated by Jay Ward.

94:57And like 15 minutes later, had that ridiculous throw to Derek's guy, Malachi Fields, which was so exciting.

95:02I was texting Derek on a Saturday afternoon, like we're taking over the league, baby.

95:06You were like, did you see that? I'm like, I didn't at the time.

95:10And then I'm like sprinting to get to a computer and being like, where's the clip?

95:14Where's the clip? But that's why it keeps, that's why Jackson Dart is what keeps me awake at night.

95:20Because I can't decide how I feel. I was going to ask you because you were not on the lingering questions show

95:26that we did about the second year quarterbacks. I think you were doing something important at the time.

95:31So you were not on that show. And so I haven't really, you haven't downloaded your Jackson Dart off-season thoughts in this space right now.

95:37So how do you feel about Jackson Dart? It changes every three hours.

95:41It changes like every time, every 30 seconds. Every time I think about it, I'm just like, you know, what?

95:46Like I just outlined with the preseason games, just like, ah, this guy.

95:50I mean, the stats are hilarious. Jackson Dart, it's similar to the stuff you just said, but he was 12th in EPA

95:56per dropback when he was throwing outside of the pocket.

95:59Pretty freaking good. 20th when you account for just inside the pocket throws.

96:02He was second among all quarterbacks in rush EPA behind Josh Allen, tied with Mahomes for the most 10-plus yard rushes, tied for second in rushing touchdowns.

96:10He was, and I know this is a subjective stat, but per PFF, number four in the league in big time throw percentage.

96:16Per PFF, also number seven in turnover-worthy plays. To not tune into Jackson Dart and every other snap, you're just, you're over

96:22the moon excited or you're convinced he's gonna play his way out of the league in like a year and a half.

96:28And I don't know what to do with it.

96:30I'm legitimately, I'm really intrigued. I think it's worth saying again, he barely got to play with Malik neighbors.

96:36And so what does it look like if you have a real wide receiver one sort of stabilizing things and hopefully giving

96:42you an easy out in your offense? But I don't know.

96:45And on top of that, we've talked about it before.

96:47If I felt better about the play caller, I'd probably be willing to just dive in and go whole hog and say,

96:53yeah, Jackson Dart is the wave of the future.

96:56Not to say Matt Nagy can't do a good job, but it's not inspiring by any means.

97:01I mean, Kansas City ushered him out the door last year and now he's- One of the weirder situations I can remember.

97:07Kansas City, well, he's gonna get a head coaching job, so we don't need to bring him back.

97:11Matt, we're not renewing you, but we won't fire you.

97:14So we'll just see where this goes. And now he's calling plays for one of the most interesting quarterbacks heading into the league this year.

97:21I don't know. Like I said, it keeps me awake at night because I change my opinion with every new bit of information.

97:27And I think the last thing that it is worth saying with Jackson Dart, like the injury stuff and the health stuff, like it's worth saying.

97:34Because if I'm- It is. I think the Jalen Hurts path for him, like in terms of play style and what it looks like.

97:41And obviously, you know, this Giants team isn't as good as those Eagles teams.

97:45And I think that that was part of that.

97:47But also part of why Jalen Hurts, you know, kind of works.

97:51He's an Ironman. Jalen Hurts doesn't miss football. Whereas Jackson Dart has already missed a bunch of time.

97:55And I think given his play style, I think that that is on the board that he might miss time again.

98:01And so I just worry a little bit about that with him where, you know, he kind of had a press conference

98:07the other week where he was like, I don't know why every time I get hit, I'm getting called to the blue tent.

98:13It's like, well, the play that you mentioned, Dave, with Jay Ward, he's like just laying down on in the middle of the logo and like not moving.

98:21And it's like, of course, it's their job to get you into the tent.

98:25Like that's that's just how it's going to go if you're going to get hit like that.

98:30That is the most I think you should leave hot dog suit shit ever, where it's like we're trying to find the guy who did this.

98:37Like, why? Why could they possibly think that I need to go to the blue medical tent when I get absolutely rocked

98:43in the pocket and then lay on the field for 30 seconds?

98:46And his teammates at training camp are cheering when he slides because he's taking the coaching points that he can't take contact like that.

98:53Derek, you also had a thought about just the offensive staff and the Nagy part of this as well and why it

98:59might be keeping you up at night on top of how it's affecting Dave.

99:02Yeah, I'm just worried that the offensive staff, it's just a lot of older and stale ideas and just guys that have

99:08really only to me like worked in very specific scenarios like Matt Nagy.

99:12Whenever he had success, it was a lot of with Patrick Mahomes, like at the peak of when when offensive football was

99:18kind of geared towards the things that he and Andy Regis wanted to do.

99:22And you had this this offense that took the league by storm.

99:25Tyree kill was incredible. Like it just felt very specific.

99:28He goes to Chicago and it just doesn't ever feel like he's able to recapture that in any way and do that

99:34with a different roster, a different team and stuff like that.

99:37And then Greg Roman. I do think Greg Roman actually does give you a floor, right?

99:41Like he kind of gets you off off the mat and at least gives you something.

99:46I just think outside of some incredible like one incredible season with Colin Kaepernick and then a couple of incredible years with

99:52again, Lamar Jackson taking the league by storm and being one of the most magical quarterbacks that we've ever seen play the position.

99:58It's just been a lot of like you run out of road pretty quickly with what the offense is.

100:03And so I just don't know how good it's going to look when, you know, Jackson Dart might be fine.

100:09He's just not a Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson sort of talent at quarterback.

100:12Patrick, what's keeping me up at night is one step even further zoomed out from that.

100:16This team, I think really is banking on John Harbaugh to save them.

100:20They're banking on John Harbaugh to save the franchise.

100:22They're banking on him to pull them out of a tailspin that has been happening for the better part of a decade

100:28where they've just been bouncing between these guys who are just these completely underwhelming head coach hires and for a franchise that

100:34has as much history and pride as the New York Giants do what the last however many years have looked like there.

100:40I think they're trying to do anything they can to restore a level of respectability to this thing.

100:45And I understand turning to John Harbaugh to do that.

100:48When you look at what he's done in Baltimore over the last 15, 18 years, it's unimpeachable.

100:53Like they have been one of the most stable franchises in the league.

100:56We've done this recently. We've done this recently and it hasn't gone well.

101:00And I don't think that John Harbaugh is going to be Pete Carroll.

101:03I think that there are a lot of examples of John Harbaugh being the right type of CEO coach, even as recently

101:09as like two or three years ago. I think John Harbaugh has done such a fantastic job over the course of his

101:15career of figuring out the exact right moments when his team needed to evolve based on the players that he had and

101:21the place that they've reached as a franchise. Them going to Greg Roman in 2019 the way that they did.

101:27Them getting to a place before the 23 season where he was just like, we ran out of road.

101:32It's time to do something different. They bring in Todd Monk and it's an inspired choice.

101:37Lamar wins the MVP to the best offense in football or one of the best offenses in football in 2024 on defense.

101:43He hired Mike McDonald. He was the one that brought back Donald to Baltimore.

101:46Like he's done such a good job. And that was when the, the wink identity of what the defense was.

101:52It's like, we've run out of road here. So I think he's had a finger on the pulse in a way that

101:58maybe some of these other older CEO type of coaches haven't necessarily.

102:01That being said, they didn't get Todd Monk and they landed on Matt Nagy.

102:05And so is that continuing? Like, do we feel good about this?

102:08And so I'm open to either one. Like if we get to the end of the season and John Harbaugh has restored

102:14a level of stability and respect to this organization, that wouldn't surprise me.

102:18I think it's probably more likely than not that we feel that way about this team, but I'm open to the idea.

102:24And it scares me a little bit that the other possibility is looming there as well, where they don't get that floor

102:30raising thing that they thought they were going to get with John Harbaugh.

102:33And if the floor is low again, I just don't want to experience that as a Giants fan, but I don't think it's off the table.

102:40That does go back to the point I've made several times this off season, though, that it's okay.

102:45If this doesn't happen overnight, it doesn't have to.

102:48But in New York, that is the expectation with this franchise and with the size of the spotlight and the head coach in question.

102:54That's why I think it's okay to temper your expectations here.

102:57Like if the Giants are a feisty below 500 team, I'm skipping into the what is a successful season part, but it doesn't have to come together overnight.

103:05And if this takes a little bit more time, I think that's okay.

103:09As long as it's not putrid. I mean, bringing up Pete Carroll, if it looks like that, all bets are off and

103:15who the hell knows what the Giants do from there.

103:17But even if it's 75% of the way there, two thirds of the way there, that is a disastrous outcome.

103:23It doesn't have to be as bad as that for this to be a worrying.

103:27That can't happen. For the Giants. It can't, it can happen, but it should not happen.

103:31And if it does happen, what on earth went wrong to get to that point?

103:35Cause I do think the talent on this roster, you shouldn't go four and 13 again.

103:40Well, I like, I believe that like, this should be a better team than that.

103:44And so, so what is success? Flirt with respectability.

103:46The Giants have only won more than six games twice this decade.

103:50Goddamn. Yeah. Oh, excuse me. I'm sorry. No, only once.

103:52They've only won more than six games once this decade.

103:55And they were the most fraudulent playoff team shit, dude.

103:58That was the year they beat the Vikings. Yeah.

104:00With Dexter Lawrence, just like terrorized Kirk cousins. Yeah.

104:03I'll even, if you go six and 11, but Jackson Dart looks promising and, and you are, you feel confident that you

104:09can build this thing around him for a couple more years.

104:12I'll give you that. But seven and 10 and better is where I start to feel optimistic about this thing.

104:17Yeah. I think if you feel some amount of confident and good going into year three with Jackson Dart, even if it's

104:23not perfect, but you're just like, yes, he's the guy we want to give another shot and we still care about you by Thanksgiving.

104:30Like you cannot be a team where, I mean, the Raiders last year, four weeks into it, we were just like this.

104:36I just don't know if this is going to be a team that can hold it together.

104:40If you're a team that we still care about and you have a shot by Thanksgiving, which is like week 12, 13.

104:46I think that to me is probably success. Respectability is the word I would go back to.

104:51Do we have an air of respectability? Are you in these games?

104:54Are you competitive? Are we interested in the New York Giants not actively avoiding them?

104:58It's more than a sideshow. Yes. As fun as Dart and Scadaboo are as a tandem, like give me something to hold on to other than their antics.

105:06Like give me football reasons to want to check in.

105:09Yeah. Are you, are you interesting in a way that is not on my wife's radar?

105:13Right. Right. That, that, that's not all respect to her.

105:16That's not the type of interesting I want you to be as the New York Giants.

105:20All right. That is all we've got for the Giants.

105:23That is all we've got for the NFC East.

105:26We will be back on Monday in the audio feed with the NFC South preview.

105:30So be on the lookout for that for now.

105:32That's all we got. Appreciate you guys listening. We'll talk to you very soon.

105:36Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button.

105:39So you never miss an episode. If you enjoyed what you heard, please like comment and leave a rating.

105:45We'll see you next time.

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