2026 AFC North preview
STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.
1 hr 41 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Aug 27, 2026
Published
Thu, August 27, 2026
17
Player insights
13
Players mentioned
Topics
Chase BrownJoe BurrowLamar JacksonMichael PittmanDerrick HenryDurham SmytheJa'Marr ChaseJaylen WarrenMark AndrewsRashod BatemanRico DowdleRoman WilsonZay Flowers
Player analysis
Player insights
Chase Brown
PositiveValue34:01
Chase Brown is characterized as a 'boring, pretty good' running back who provides the Bengals with reliable depth and options outside of their elite receiving core.
Insight pageNegativeUsage41:46
The Bengals' shift to more under-center play-action and 12 personnel creates more traffic in the core of the formation. This makes it more difficult for Chase Brown to read linebacker movement and determine his release timing, as the offensive environment is becoming significantly more complex than in previous seasons.
Insight pageDerrick Henry
PositiveProjection2:19
The source remains highly optimistic about Derrick Henry's role in the Ravens' offense, noting that when he and Lamar Jackson are on the field together, it creates one of the most effective offenses in the league. While acknowledging the reality of aging, the source expresses confidence in Henry's continued impact.
Insight pageDurham Smythe
NegativeRole21:41
Durham Smythe is expected to have a role as a 'dirty work' blocker rather than a pass-catching threat. He is viewed as a solid third tight end option for multi-tight end personnel groupings.
Insight pageJa'Marr Chase
PositiveBreakout31:10
Ja'Marr Chase is described as a unique specimen and a different tier of athlete. He remains the focal point of a Bengals offense that is considered the most complete version seen to date.
Insight pageJaylen Warren
PositiveUsage62:29
Jalen Warren is highly regarded as a good player, though his fantasy production can be hit-or-miss. He forms an underrated backfield duo with Rico Dowdle that should benefit from the Steelers' strong offensive line.
Insight pageJoe Burrow
PositiveProjection30:00
Joe Burrow is part of a high-powered offense that, when healthy alongside Ja'Marr Chase and Tee Higgins, consistently produces top-five offensive output. While he has never finished in the top five in EPA per dropback, this is attributed to high sack totals rather than lack of talent.
Insight pageNegativeUsage40:30
The Bengals are shifting toward a more central under-center offensive identity, moving away from their previous heavy shotgun usage. This transition creates a 'murkier' environment for Burrow, as the pocket structure, escape valves, and checkdown timing are different from what he has operated with throughout his career. Success in this new scheme requires Burrow to trust his receivers more in tight windows, similar to the styles of Matthew Stafford or Ryan Tannehill.
Insight pageLamar Jackson
PositiveRole6:41
Lamar Jackson is expected to operate in a system under new offensive coordinator Declan Doyle that leans more into under-center concepts and play-action, which aligns with Jackson's career efficiency of 0.40 EPA per dropback when under center. The transition is viewed as a natural fit given his college experience and ability to attack the middle of the field.
Insight pageNegativeProjection25:38
Lamar Jackson struggled with pocket command and consistency last year, with lower lows than previously seen. However, the source maintains faith in his ability to bounce back to his 2024 form, noting his history of success with new play callers.
Insight pageMark Andrews
NegativeUsage21:28
Mark Andrews' efficiency has declined, ranking 46th among tight ends in yards per route run last year, down from 7th in 2024 and 3rd the year prior. This trend is a point of concern for the Ravens' passing attack.
Insight pageMichael Pittman
NegativeDepth Chart54:19
Michael Pittman was acquired by the Pittsburgh Steelers via trade during the 2026 offseason.
Insight pagePositiveValue66:04
Michael Pittman Jr. is considered a solid starting wide receiver who adds versatility to the Steelers' offense. His acquisition for a swap of late-round picks is viewed as a steal.
Insight pageRashod Bateman
NegativeBust22:36
The source expresses a lack of confidence in the 'Rashad Bateman experience' for the upcoming season, citing off-field legal issues as a potential distraction.
Insight pageRico Dowdle
PositiveUsage62:19
Rico Dowdle is an explosive runner, ranking as one of only 12 running backs with 50+ explosive rushes over the last two years. He is expected to be a key part of the Steelers' run game, potentially thriving behind their improved offensive line.
Insight pageRoman Wilson
NegativeRole67:34
Roman Wilson is viewed as a vertical slot option for the Steelers. He has had an uneven preseason but offers a distinct, complementary skill set to Jeremy Bernard in the team's improved receiving room.
Insight pageZay Flowers
PositiveProjection21:04
Zay Flowers is viewed as a reliable pass catcher whose production in 2024 flew under the radar. The source expresses confidence in his role within the Ravens' offense.
Insight pageFull transcript
Episode Transcript
0:00Welcome to The Athletic Football Show. I'm Robert Mays.
0:02Division previews roll on today. The AFC North, a lot of fun stuff to dig into.
0:07Me, Dave and Derek, not wasting any time. Let's get to it.
0:10The AFC North preview right now. The division previews rolling on today.
0:14We have the AFC North coming your guys way today, like we did with the AFC West yesterday.
0:19We're doing this in order of division odds. So if you were upset with the order we're hitting these teams, that is the reason that is the explanation.
0:26It makes sense for this one, you know, like we can't, we don't want to start with, I'm just trying to be consistent.
0:33We don't want to start with the Steelers. I'm sorry.
0:35Like, sorry Steelers fans. We don't want to start with the Steelers.
0:39So we have sent each other our answers for this before we started recording.
0:43My favorite part about the entire layout of the AFC North preview is that for the, what a success for some of the teams it's very practical.
0:50And for the Steelers, every single one of our answers is just riddled with existential like looming dread, which I think just
0:56says so much about the current state of the Pittsburgh Steelers.
0:59If your team evokes Sisyphus as a mental image, we'll get into it later.
1:03We will, we will get to the Steelers, but we are starting with the Baltimore Ravens, our preview for the 2026 Baltimore Ravens.
1:10They're off season in 60 seconds. Hire Jesse Minter is the head coach.
1:13Declan Doyle is the offensive coordinator. Anthony Weaver is the defensive coordinator.
1:17Signed John Simpson, Trey Hendrickson, Calais Campbell, Jalen Hawkins, and later Ethan Posich in free agency.
1:21Lost Tyler Linderbaum, Isaiah Likely, Charlie Kohler, Patrick Ricard, Alohi Gilman.
1:24In the draft, Vega Ioana in round one, Zion Young in round two, Jacoby Lane in round three.
1:29For each team, we're going to kick things off with what we are most excited about as it relates to this team heading into 2026.
1:36Derek, what are you most excited about for the 2026 Baltimore Ravens?
1:39This team still has Lamar Jackson and Derek Henry.
1:42It's really as simple as that to me. Like I, I remember when they signed Derek Henry initially that I was like
1:48over the moon excited about how cool this could be.
1:51And we've seen for a couple of years that like when it is working, it is the coolest and most effective offense in the entire league.
1:58And obviously there were a couple of reasons. Some of that fell away last year, some offensive line issues.
2:03Maybe they were, you know, Lamar Jackson himself was a little bit banged up.
2:07He even talked about today, you know, they were asking, why didn't you run as much?
2:11He's like, well, I was hurt. I don't know what to tell you.
2:15So I think if he's healthier, Derek Henry, I believe will be able to do this until he's 40.
2:20Like I just, as so long as those two are on the field together, this is going to be the offense that
2:26I want to watch every single week. Building on that too, last year was an unfortunate reminder of football mortality.
2:32Just because Lamar Jackson has been at these dizzying heights for, I mean, really most of his career, but definitely the last
2:38two years before 2025 and watching him struggle and also not be mobile and run as little as he has in his
2:44NFL career and just not look like the Lamar Jackson we've gotten used to.
2:48I hope his decline is a long, long ways off, but it reminded me, of course, we still want to hold him
2:54to the standard of succeeding in the playoffs and he wants to bring Baltimore a championship.
2:59But it's a reminder to enjoy these moments. And I know we joke all the time that Derek Henry will never age, but he will eventually.
3:06So I don't think he can do this forever.
3:08I don't think he can do it forever. I hope he can, but he would be the first one.
3:14And so I'm trying to be in the moment with Lamar and Derek Henry this year, and I hope they're at their peak power.
3:20And I just want to enjoy it. I want to enjoy what I think will be a better Baltimore offense for all the categories we're hitting.
3:27I don't think we have space for this. And so I wanted to just sit here with it for a second while we're talking about the offense.
3:35We did not talk about Declan Doyle in the new play caller show, Derek.
3:39We just ran out of time. And so as you think about Declan Doyle coming over from Chicago, and I know that
3:45he spent time with Sean Payton previously, but I think if you're I'll bet you a lot of money that if we're
3:51looking at the offense, the Ravens most resemble this year.
3:54It will look most like the Chicago Bears offense from last year, not whatever Declan Doyle was doing in New Orleans and Denver with Sean Payton.
4:01So as you think about Lamar Jackson at this stage in his career, Derek playing on in a system with those ideas
4:07that Declan Doyle is likely bringing over from Chicago.
4:10What do you think about that marriage? And what do you think this is going to look like?
4:14I mean, I think it's going to be pretty good because, you know, we I think we've talked about this a little
4:21bit at different points, you know, beforehand, but they're probably going to be a lot more under center.
4:26And Lamar Jackson is not someone who's done that a ton in his NFL career.
4:30But when he's done it, he's been excellent. Like he has point four zero EPA per drop back under center since entering
4:36the league, which is the best by a mile.
4:38And again, I think there's some amount of like the less you do a thing, you kind of have room to be more efficient at it.
4:46But he has been incredible at it. And this is something that going all the way back to college, like he actually
4:52was a guy who came out of college with some under center experience.
4:55Like this is not a thing that was ever uncomfortable for him.
4:59And he's always been really good at, I think, throwing the middle of the field, anticipating he can layer touch to that layer of the field.
5:06And, you know, I was even watching some of the games from last year, some of the examples where they did go under center.
5:12And he's soon as he hits the top of the drop back, he's just chucking that deep over route.
5:18Like he is very comfortable doing a lot of that stuff.
5:21And so I think the question more is like, how do the other pieces of the personnel kind of layer into that?
5:27One of them is like obviously coming from the Ben Johnson offense.
5:30They didn't necessarily have a fullback, but they put Durham Smythe in the backfield on about 46 runs last year.
5:36Well, he's on the Ravens roster now. So it's pretty easy to see how that would paste over into this roster.
5:42So I just think that this is a marriage that is going to work.
5:45And obviously they're not as talented at some of the skill positions.
5:49And we'll talk about that, but I just have so much faith that Lamar is always able to iterate and do the next thing.
5:55All these quarterbacks that we're talking about stepping into a more under center world this year, Jaden Daniels, Jalen Hurts, Joe Burrow,
6:02Patrick Mahomes, they all come from a place where it's fairly foreign or more foreign than it is to Lamar Jackson.
6:07Like the idea of, well, what's Jalen Hurts going to look like in an under center world where he may be asked
6:13to throw the ball to the middle of the field more often.
6:17That's there's some guesswork involved in that. That's what Lamar Jackson does best.
6:20It's really the best thing about who he is as a quarterback.
6:24And so a system designed to kind of pry open that area and have him play with maybe a little bit more
6:30space because of the play action stuff that they're likely going to lean into.
6:34I'm excited to see what that's going to look like.
6:36It is interesting that it would take Declan Doyle to ramp this up, though, because I assume that's what's going to happen.
6:43Like the Bears were second in the league in play action attempts last year.
6:46The Ravens, it's never like you said, it's never been like Hurts or Jaden Daniels or Joe Burrow.
6:51He's been under center like a normal amount. It's not been a ton, but it's been it hasn't been a total outlier
6:58like it's been with some of those other guys.
7:00But specifically agreed. Yes. But and also with play action, it's not that they don't do a lot of play action.
7:06Like they've hovered between 10 and 15 over the last like three years.
7:09Last year, they were second fewest in the league.
7:12I assume some of that is because of Lamar's injuries.
7:15But do it more often. Yeah. Like why? Why?
7:17Why are we in 2026 just now talking about doing it a lot?
7:21And so I hope Declan Doyle dials it up to the degree that the Bears were doing last year because they were awesome at it.
7:28You guys are focusing on the offense and what you're excited to watch.
7:31I'm excited to see what Jesse Minter can do with like some serious dudes.
7:35The Chargers have a decent collection of personnel. Derwin James is a good player.
7:39Cleo Mack still has, you know, Cleo Mack is pretty ageless at this point.
7:43Tule Tupelo had a nice season. They've tired. Tartt, they've gotten a lot out of.
7:47But we talked about this with the Chargers yesterday.
7:50The Chargers, a lot of the excitement about the Chargers over the last couple of years is their ability to get more
7:56than they've paid for with some of these guys.
7:58I mean, tired. Tartt was available essentially for free.
8:01The Ravens have invested in some big name guys all the way across that defense.
8:05And I'm excited to see what Jesse Minter can do with this level of defensive talent on the high end.
8:10Kyle Hamilton, Nate Wiggins. We'll see what we get from Matt Abike, which we'll hit in a second.
8:15Malachi Starks was a first round pick. Trey Hendrickson, they paid a shitload of money too.
8:20And not only what the overall quality of this is going to look like, but how do they play?
8:25Do they feel like they can play a little bit more man coverage because they have Wiggins and Marlon Humphrey on the outside?
8:31Do they get a little bit matchier? The Chargers last year were 28th in man coverage rate.
8:36And the other thing I feel like is going to be something that's worth watching that's important here.
8:41The Ravens last year specifically, they played a ton of single high coverages.
8:45They were the fifth highest rate of single high coverages in the NFL last year in Baltimore.
8:50The Chargers were 28th. The Chargers played two and a half times the amount of quarters that the Ravens played last year.
8:56And when the Ravens were at their best with this core of pieces two years ago when Mike McDonald was there, it was these ideas.
9:03Even if the system and the language was the same with Zach Orr, stylistically, they had really drifted away from a lot
9:09of the stuff that they were doing with McDonald when this was the best defense in the NFL.
9:14And so I think we'll see them move back in that general direction.
9:17And I think with this collection of players and just what we've seen from Jesse Minter over the last couple of years,
9:23it's a group that's pretty easy to get excited about.
9:26I think the man coverage stuff that you're talking about is really the biggest point to me because I think, you know,
9:32the Chargers last year, they just didn't really have the personnel to do it.
9:36Like, I think Dante Jackson can be a decent one-on-one corner, but they played a lot of match or they played a lot of zone for a reason.
9:44So I think Cam Hart is really good at that, still is really good at that.
9:48When I look, and honestly, you mentioned that they were 28th in man coverage rate.
9:52If you look at just cover one, they're second to last.
9:55The only one that was a lot of cover zero.
9:58Yeah, exactly. Like they'll do it a little bit when they play zero, but that went like just pure cover one, like
10:04playing with a rat or a robber just didn't really do a whole lot of that because they just didn't trust their corners.
10:11Whereas I think you look at what Baltimore has both at corner, like Nate Wiggins can play one-on-one, Humphrey can play one-on-one,
10:17but also what they have at safety. Like, I think if you want to like roll down Starks or Hamilton or Jalen
10:23Hawkins as like that robber, they can absolutely do it.
10:26If you want to have Roquan Smith be the rat, like he can do it.
10:30Like I just, it feels like they have a lot more better personnel to run a lot more of that man stuff,
10:36but you just wonder how does that fit into some of the shells and run defense stuff that they like to do?
10:42Because playing a lot more man does change like how your fits work and stuff like that.
10:47So I just wonder how he's going to make all that sort of stuff work for them.
10:51And even if it's not man coverage specifically, I think one of the bigger differentiators between, let's just call it, let's say quarters, right?
10:58When they were playing quarters, when McDonald was there, there's a little bit more air in that version of quarters than the
11:04way that Jesse Minter likes to play it. And I think if you're going to be a little bit matchier and stickier
11:10with this group of corners, you can play that way.
11:13Even if it's not, even if it's not man coverage, quote unquote, I just think that stylistically, some of the things they
11:19already want to do are better unlocked with this group of corners than arguably the ones that he had when he was with the Chargers.
11:26It was like such a sigh of relief that the Nate Wiggins injury from a week or two ago doesn't appear to be that serious.
11:33And Humphrey coming back, the fact that they came back the same day was as somebody who picked the Ravens in the defense draft.
11:40I was very happy to see them both get back onto the practice field at the exact same time.
11:45For each of these teams, we want to talk about just what we're watching over the first month of the season, a
11:51curiosity that we have some lingering questions about that we think will ultimately be important in determining how the season goes.
11:57Dave, let's kick this off with you. What are you watching over the first month of the season with the Baltimore Ravens?
12:03Matt Abike's role, if he's healthy enough to have one.
12:06I've been beating this drum since Minner took the job, so why stop now?
12:10The latest report out of Baltimore's camp is that Nnamdi was hitting the sled for the first time on Monday, which is definitively progress.
12:16Baby steps. That's, you know, we're hoping the best for him and we hope he comes back great.
12:21But hitting the sled for the first time on August 24th tempers my hopes and dreams a little bit, you know?
12:27Like, we'll see where it goes. But that makes me think this is more of a gradual process than Matabike's cannonballing back
12:33into this lineup in week one and we're back to the way things were, which we talked about it on a show this summer.
12:40The difference when he's been on the field for them, not last year because he was hurt and he played two games,
12:46but in 23 and 24, this was such a substantially better defense when he was on the field.
12:51Like, the on-off splits for success rate, explosive rate allowed, stuff rate allowed are stark when he's in there.
12:56And I know several things contributed to it, but the Ravens fell from first in DVOA in 23 to sixth in 24.
13:02They were 17th last year. Not having him in the center of all that is undoubtedly a huge piece of it.
13:08So, how quickly can he get back and what does he look like when he's back?
13:13I mean, maybe the first month of the season isn't even enough time.
13:16Maybe it has to be more gradual than that, but I'm going to be watching that like a hawk.
13:21It's important not only just for the overall quality of the defense, but when you look at that room specifically, Clayus Campbell's
13:28kind of a tweener, but Clayus Campbell's 40 years old at this point.
13:31They don't have a lot of twitch among that group.
13:34It's a lot of big boys. Calais Campbell is 40.
13:37Is he really 40? Really? 39. But John Jenkins is not much younger.
13:40And Broderick Washington, he is much younger, but he's still 30.
13:43Clayus Campbell will turn 40 next week. Yeah, dude.
13:46So, that's not even an exaggeration. He will be 40 years old next week.
13:50They are long in the tooth doesn't do justice to the room behind Matt Abike.
13:54I will say, not having as much pass rush pop on the interior, and this team is so much better if they have Matt Abike doing that.
14:01I do think the edge room is a lot deeper and more dynamic this year than it was last year.
14:07You have kind of these cool stylistic mirror images of one another where you have Trey Hendrickson and Mike Green as kind
14:13of your bend to your speed pass rush guys.
14:16And then you have Zion Johnson and Tavius Robinson as more of your big bodied early down edge players.
14:21And that mix of those four guys, if Hendrickson can, we'll talk about that in a second.
14:26But Hendrickson getting back to form, Mike Green into year two, just thinking a little bit less.
14:30Even if it's a new defensive coordinator, a lot of the same verbiage, a lot of the same ideas.
14:35I think that it just has kind of freed him up to play in a way that he wasn't able to do as a rookie.
14:42And then if you have Tavius Robinson talking to Jeff Cerebic when I was there, he thinks that Tavius Robinson has a
14:49chance to take as big a step as anybody on the entire roster from last year to this year.
14:54And so if the edge room is a little bit deeper and a little bit better than it was last season, you
15:00can maybe survive without Matt Abike in a way you couldn't before.
15:03But I still think that having even some version of him in the middle of this thing changes the complexion of what that front feels like.
15:10It's worth saying another young guy getting rave reviews in that position group.
15:14Aeneas Peebles in his second year seems to be having an amazing camp.
15:18I'm not banking on that, though. Like, that's encouraging, but we'll see what it looks like if Nnamdi's not ready to go.
15:24What I'm watching, I kind of alluded to this, I want to see what the veterans on this team look like, the expensive veterans on this team.
15:31Trey Hendrickson, Marlon Humphrey, Roquan Smith. What do those players look like early in the season?
15:36Because when you look at the Ravens cap coming into the year, after Lamar, the three most expensive players on the Ravens
15:42are Roquan Smith, Nnamdi Matabike, and Marlon Humphrey. If those guys aren't playing well, and I think in Humphrey's case and in
15:48Roquan's case, especially the first half of last season, playing better than they did last year, you can't square that sort of
15:54investment when you have those three guys accounting for 33% of your cap if they're not going to meet difference-making players.
16:00And so what do you get out of that trio, and how much do we feel them as part of this team?
16:06Because if you're not feeling the three highest paid players on your team outside of the quarterback, I just think it's really,
16:12really hard for you to hit your ceiling overall.
16:14And I'm glad you mentioned them, because this is actually sort of my keeping me up at night, because I think outside
16:21of Hamilton, all of the best and elite players on the Ravens' defense kind of feels a little bit flimsy for one reason or another.
16:27Like, we don't know when Matabike is coming back.
16:30Roquan Smith, again, for the first half of last year, I think played the worst football I've ever seen him play, and he got better by the end.
16:38But it's like, I still want to see him play another full season like that.
16:42Trey Hendrickson is getting a little bit older, and he was obviously banged up pretty recently.
16:46Marlon Humphrey is getting a little bit older. He's been banged up.
16:50Nate Wiggins was banged up this offseason. Like, it's just the guys who are the five needle movers who are supposed to
16:56make this defense feel different than the Chargers defense.
16:58If it all hits, holy shit, they're incredible. There's reason to believe that each one of them, like, you really do need
17:04things to go a certain way for them. I'm with you.
17:07That's exactly how I feel, and I think we'll know pretty early.
17:11Like, what are we getting out of that? Because these aren't guys that need to ramp up.
17:15These aren't second-year players where it's like, oh, maybe they'll improve over the course of the season.
17:20Like, I want to see it pretty quickly for me to gauge how I should feel about this Ravens team and specifically this Ravens defense.
17:27Can I throw in one more thing for the first month?
17:30You sure can. My first special teams addendum of the preview series.
17:33Tyler Loop. Hey, how much did that wind up mattering, by the way?
17:37Just throwing that out there. Jordan Stout followed Harbaugh to New York, and they drafted his replacement.
17:42Ryan Eckley was punting the shit out of the football in the preseason the other day.
17:46He was averaging, like, 55 yards of punt. I'm so glad you're here.
17:50You laugh if you want to. I'm not kidding.
17:52I'm so glad. That's just something that would never have come up on this show unless you were here.
17:58Hey, this is the second year in a row they are putting specialist duties in the hands of a rookie, and hopefully
18:04Tyler Loop has many makes left in his career, but, you know, it loomed large for the 2025 Baltimore Ravens.
18:09One of the other things you were curious about that I do think is worth sitting with just for a second is
18:15how the defensive back rolls on this team shake out, because I do think that it's pretty solidified, or at least was when I was at camp.
18:23I was there on August 6th. So we're not going on three weeks now.
18:27I think things obviously shift. And to me, the most important changeover might be what's going to happen in Dime when they
18:33have six DBs on the field, because Keon Martin, who is an undrafted free agent, I think they were really excited about
18:39what he was giving in those situations. But Chandler Rivers, who they drafted, I think in the fifth round, dog, I feel
18:45like that was probably going to be a little bit of a battle.
18:49And Rivers has played well enough in a preseason where do we see a little bit more of him in those looks?
18:55But other than that, it sounded like when I was there, they really wanted Marlon Humphrey to focus on being a full-time
19:01outside corner for the first time in a while.
19:03Because even last year, Derek, he led this team in slot snaps because Kyle Hamilton had to play a little bit more
19:09safety because they didn't have that third safety over the course of the year.
19:13And so Humphrey being a full-time outside guy, Hamilton being the full-time nickel, having Jalen Hawkins to play another second safety spot,
19:19I think that's going to be the five we see for a vast majority of the snaps with some combination of Martin
19:25and Chandler Rivers coming in to be that nickel when they move Kyle Hamilton to the Dime linebacker.
19:30And I am actually interested because, like you said, we haven't really seen Humphrey just stick at a spot in a while
19:37because every year we talk about, like, oh, the Ravens love to move Kyle Hamilton to fix their issues.
19:42They'll move him to safety. They'll move him to nickel.
19:45The one who moves in conjunction with him is Marlon Humphrey.
19:48If Hamilton's in the slot, it bumps Humphrey out.
19:50And if Hamilton's not, then Humphrey usually goes back in and they're playing Cheeto Awuzie or whoever on the outside.
19:56And so I do think the fact that they are so committed to being like, no, we really do want to just
20:02keep him here and let him do this, I think that that is probably of benefit to him at this stage in his career.
20:08I agree. And I said he was one of the guys I mentioned on the Players That Can Swing the Season show.
20:15I think there are probably four or five of those guys on this Ravens team.
20:19We can be Roquan's one of those guys. Matt Abike is one of those guys.
20:23But I said it in the moment. I still believe it.
20:26If you tell me at the end of the season, Marlon Humphrey had a great season for the Ravens, what do you
20:32think the percentage chances that the Ravens defense was good?
20:35I think it's really, really high. It's like 85%.
20:37Yeah, like really high. For each of these teams, we want to chat about the stuff that's a little more worrisome.
20:43The things that are kind of lingering there in the back of our minds.
20:47What is keeping you up at night, Dave, about the 2026 Baltimore Ravens?
20:51I'm rooting for him, but Jacoby Lane's super camp is jumping the shark a little bit.
20:55And all of a sudden... How dare you? Being excited about a young receiver is doing a lot to distract us from
21:01what is otherwise a pretty, ah, okay, group of pass catchers.
21:04And that's even... I've come around on Zay Flowers, and I...
21:07I feel vindicated. I commend... This is a long time Zay guy.
21:11I commend the Ravens for getting the deal done early, and I think Zay's production last year flew under the radar by myself and by many others.
21:18Even with Zay in the mix, what's getting you excited about the Ravens pass catchers unless Jacoby Lane really is just a rookie phenom?
21:25And I guess that's possible, but I wouldn't bet on it.
21:28Mark Andrews was third on the Ravens roster and 46th in the league among tight ends in yards per route run.
21:34That's down from seventh in 2024 and down from third two years before that.
21:37Behind Mark Andrews, Durham Smythe, he's going to have a role in what the Ravens want to do.
21:42He's not a pass catching threat. No. He is a dirty work guy to the max.
21:47And last year when he was the third tight end in Chicago, that...
21:50You feel a little bit better about how dynamic your multi-tight end personnel groupings look in the pass game when Durham Smythe
21:57is your third tight end instead of your second tight end.
22:00And then, I mean, they have two rookies there too, but again, how much...
22:04Hibner's shown a little bit, man. Yeah. I'm excited about the Hibner experience.
22:07I would even say Cuevas had a couple nice moments in the Vikings preseason game.
22:11So it's not to rule it out entirely, but banking on rookies, specifically day three rookies...
22:16Third and fifth round picks. Hibner was a fifth round pick?
22:19A fourth round pick. Fourth, I believe. So third and fourth round picks in Jacoby Lane and Hibner is...
22:24I do think that we're going to need to see something for those guys for this to feel like it's all kind of coming together.
22:31Because I'm with you. The Mark Andrews part of this, it does leave me a little bit worried.
22:36And I'm just not signing up for the Rashad Bateman experience again.
22:39That's me in person. Rashad Bateman has legal issues.
22:42Like he just had a case where, you know, he's trying to break into a car and stuff like that.
22:47And so like you wonder, like, is that going to loom over them for the course of the season?
22:53And so I think it's funny though, that this was like you're up at night.
22:57And I think that that's totally justified. Mine was more curiosity because I think I'm a little bit bullish on some of these players.
23:03Like I really liked Jacoby Lane coming out of college.
23:06Yeah, you're already carving out Jacoby's bust. Of course you're excited.
23:09I was ready before he got drafted. And then the Ravens took him.
23:13I was like, finally a ball winner for Lamar Jackson.
23:16And so I'm some amount of bullish. I do think it's a little bit scary if he really does have to be the number two.
23:23I do think that that changes things a little bit.
23:25But again, I've liked what I've seen from some of the backup tight ends.
23:29And it's clear to see what their roles are supposed to be.
23:32And I think I also just have some amount of faith that like if Lamar Jackson's 95%, man, he won MVPs with
23:39pass catching cores that were really not that different from this.
23:42And so I'm pretty willing to buy it. Also overall optimistic about this.
23:45But what is keeping me up at night is just what if it doesn't work?
23:49Like what if this changeover on offense doesn't work?
23:52Because I think I'm with you, Derek, where I'm just pretty quickly being like, oh, there'll be a top seven offense again.
23:58I think I have faith in the Declan Doyle part of this.
24:01I have faith in those ideas. I've seen them work.
24:04I do. I'm really excited about him as a play caller.
24:07Lamar Jackson has won the MVP in his first year with a new play card twice.
24:12And I think part of that is new ideas and them getting to spring them on teams.
24:16And I think part of it is him being excited and bought in when something doesn't feel like it's gotten stale.
24:22So I am overall optimistic about this. But there's a little voice in the back of my mind where it's like, what
24:28are the pass catchers aren't good enough? The offensive line we haven't even talked about yet.
24:33I mean, they've made additions to the offensive line.
24:35Keeping you up at night too. And Ronnie Stanley is getting a little bit older.
24:39I think, you know, John Simpson is somebody that, again, very much in the back half of his career.
24:45I'm excited about the physicality that you want. I theoretically brings to the run game, but center has already been a revolving door.
24:51I was in Minnesota on the day where Matt Pinter tore his patellar tendon.
24:55Danny Pinter. Or Danny Pinter, excuse me. Matt Pinter is the, Matt Painter is the Purdue basketball coach.
25:00The Purdue basketball coach. Danny Pinter. That was one of the more bummer moments I've seen in a practice because this is
25:06a guy that was a career backup, had been practicing with the ones the entire summer because Ethan Postage had been coming back from injury.
25:13And you could see it in Danny Pinter's face where he was just like, this was my shot.
25:18This was my shot to change my career. Because if he had been the starter all year, he was going to be a free agent.
25:25What does that end up looking like? He slammed his hand on the cart when he was driving off.
25:30Like he just knew like this is over, which was tough to watch in real time.
25:34So I do think there's enough there. And I'll say this.
25:38I said in the moment, stand by it. Lamar was not playing well before he got hurt last year.
25:43He was not playing well. He looked out of sorts early in the season compared to what we had seen him look like over the previous two years.
25:51I have all the faith in the world in this player being able to bounce back and look more like the 24
25:57version when in my mind, it was the best he had ever played was during the 24 season.
26:02I absolutely think he can get back there. But the last time I saw him even moderately healthy, he did not look
26:08like the player he was in 24. And so while I think all this stuff can come together, there's a little kernel
26:14there where I'm if I were a Ravens fan, I'd be like, what if it doesn't?
26:18And what does that mean? How good does the defense have to be?
26:22And for the Lamar stuff, I'm still I'm so in the bag for him that like last year was weird and they
26:28were they were more feast and famine than I think he'd ever been in his career.
26:32And I think that that's the way to explain it.
26:35Like his highs were still there, but the lows were just lower than they had ever really been at any point.
26:41Uncomfortable in the pocket, deeper into downs, taking sacks.
26:44The thing that stood out in 24 is that he was so in command.
26:47I had never seen him in that sort of command in the pocket as a passer.
26:52And that just didn't he didn't feel that assertiveness in the even the first month of last season, like the Lions game.
26:58I always go back to where the numbers are fine because they're explosive.
27:02But when you actually look at how it feels down to down, that command just was not there.
27:07And so can he regain it? Yes, I have faith in that happening.
27:10But I do think the last time we saw him even moderately healthy, it just didn't look like he had the game
27:16in the palm of his hand in the way that he did in 2024.
27:20All right. What does success look like, Derek, for the 2026 Baltimore Ravens?
27:24I mean, I still think that this is a team that should like at worst get to the divisional round and play
27:30like a pretty strong game in the divisional round.
27:32And I think that they can be even better than that.
27:35Like, I still think that this is a really good team and roster than last year was just things got a little bit stale.
27:42Quarterback was banged up. But like, I still ultimately think that this is one of the better teams in the NFL.
27:48Jesse Minner has the goods. And by the end of the year, we view him similarly to Mike McDonald and the Ravens
27:54win the division and reclaim their place as a member of the elite.
27:58I don't know what that means. It's hard for me to say.
28:01It's hard for me to say you got to go to the Super Bowl under a first year head coach.
28:06I think you got to go to the AFC championship game to the AFC championship game.
28:11I mean, if you're among the elite, then that's what we're talking about.
28:14You know why? I think putting that on a first year coach is very high end expectations.
28:19There are a lot of old players on this team.
28:22Trey Hendrickson is an older player. Roquan's going to be an older player.
28:26Ronnie Stanley is going to be an older player.
28:28Like, you don't have that many more shots with this core of team or with this core of players to be one
28:34of the best teams in the league. Like, there's going to be some turnover at some point.
28:39It's got to happen in one of the next two years, probably.
28:42That is the conflict I felt. And I thought to myself, can I really expect a first year head coach to win
28:48the Super Bowl and then everything you just said?
28:51And I think I settled on thinking into like two years is the window.
28:55Two years is the window to get it done with this team.
28:58I feel better if they were on the doorstep in year one.
29:01I want to see them back on the doorstep again.
29:04Divisional round or better would be a successful season for me.
29:07But I hear you. Before we get to the Cincinnati Bengals, let's take our first quick break.
29:12Let's get to the Cincinnati Bengals. Our preview for the 2026 Bengals.
29:15They're offseason in 60 seconds. Signed Boye, Mafe, Brian Cook, and Jonathan Allen in free agency.
29:20Traded for Dexter Lawrence. Traded the 10th overall pick for Dexter Lawrence.
29:23The Cincinnati Bengals. A real thing that happened, Michael Beller.
29:26In the draft, no first round pick. Cassius Howell in the second round.
29:29Cornerback Takario Davis in the third round. Connor Liu, the offensive lineman in the fourth round.
29:34Lost Trey Hendrickson and Joseph Osai in free agency this year.
29:37David, what are you most excited about as it relates to the 2026 Bengals?
29:41My large adult sons are back playing football again.
29:43Slinging the ball around the yard. And that's no shade to Tee Higgins either.
29:47He's worth bringing up. But Joe Burrow and Jamar Chase hold a special place in my heart and always will.
29:53And the fact that they play together in the NFL, I'll never take that for granted.
29:57I mean, it's as simple as the Lamar Jackson, Derrick Henry thing.
30:00Like when those two are on the field. Well, when those three, I will include Tee Higgins, who technically a tiger, just
30:06a different, you know, sort of tiger. True. That's very true.
30:09When those three are on the field, they've been a top five offense basically every time.
30:14And there's been some waxes and wanes of them being on the field together.
30:18You know, they've all had injury issues really outside of, you know, Chase, I think it's had the least issues.
30:23But when they're on the field together, they're just pumping out like 300 yard games.
30:28And they are still one of the best offenses in the NFL.
30:31Even if I will say the last year or two, it's looked different.
30:34It's still always been incredibly good. And so when those guys are out there, it's just like you always know that they
30:41give you a chance to just win any game 30 to 28.
30:44Yeah. This may be more appropriate for the next category, but my thought about it, as I agree with you guys, that's what I'm excited to watch.
30:51Like that trio when they're on the field together is 0.18 EPA per play last year, which would have been, I think,
30:57first or second in the entire league. They are, it's a firework show.
31:01It's phenomenal. I think this is potentially the most complete team we have seen with the Bengals offensively.
31:06When you look at every single element of the offense, and we can talk about the transition offensively in a second, because
31:12I think we all have some curiosity about that.
31:15They've never finished higher than sixth in EPA per play since Joe Burrow's been there.
31:19Never been higher than sixth. I mean, I guess that's, yeah, probably because they're all missing time and stuff together.
31:24And they've had a little bit of growing pains early in season sometimes.
31:28Yeah. That's part of it. The other part, Joe Burrow has never finished in the top five in EPA per dropback ever.
31:34It's not one time. Yeah. That tracks. Even the years where they were really good, he was taking 50 sacks a season.
31:40And so this offense, it's been exciting. The talent is overwhelming.
31:43There are some guys in the NFL when you're there at training camp and you're just watching them move at practice.
31:49And it's just like, this is a different tier of athlete, of talent, of human being, the specimen.
31:54Jamar Chase is on that list. Like when you watch him move, it's just crazy.
31:58And that's when this offense is at its best.
32:01Those two guys and T going at it together.
32:03It's a unique animal. But they've always been right on the doorstep of being this overwhelming force.
32:08They'd never quite gotten there because either they're taking a decent amount of sacks or the run game just doesn't have the oomph.
32:14Right. That's been one of the issues. And last year, they were a really successful running team in the back half of the season.
32:21The offensive line, I think you can make an argument, is as good as it's been since Joe Burrow got there.
32:27There's some concerns. We can talk about that. But you have two homegrown guys that you feel good about among that group
32:33for the first time ever with Dylan Fairchild and Marius Mims.
32:36The run game is just a higher quality and more consistent.
32:39Like I do think you can get to a place where you can convince yourself this is the best plan and collection
32:45of pieces we have seen for this team offensively, even when they were going to AFC championships game championship games, going to Super Bowls.
32:52I can't get over the fact that Joe's 2024 wasn't top five because he got sacked 48 times.
32:57That's the reason. Wild. But I'm with you on this being the most complete version, I think, of the team we've ever seen.
33:03Because I put in my category for this, I was like, yeah, Jamar, Joe, and T together.
33:08On top of it is the most, I think, complete team we've ever seen.
33:12Like the offensive line, I think last year was already probably the best that we'd ever seen with Joe Burrow.
33:17And if, like you said, those young guys take a step, if Mims is even better, if Fairchild is even better, it's
33:23like, OK, this really starts to turn into something a little bit different.
33:27And then I think, you know, outside of, you know, obviously the two just freak show receivers, it's a lot of role
33:33players, but they do have a lot of them.
33:35Like Yoshibas is a totally solid player. I thought Mitchell Tinsley actually played pretty well at wide receiver for them as like
33:42a can be outside the numbers, catch some passes up in the air.
33:45They're tight ends. None of them are superstars, but they all have a role.
33:49Like Drew Sample's a blocker. You still have guys who like a second is on their officer.
33:54He can still do some of the pass catching stuff.
33:57And then Chase Brown is like the most boring, pretty good running back in the entire NFL.
34:01Like they just have options even outside the elite guys.
34:04Well, you didn't mention your boy, Eric All. Yeah, Eric All.
34:07Bring up Eric All. Who can actually be their like move around guy.
34:11Two guys you did not mention that I think are worth throwing out.
34:14Colby Young, who they drafted in the fourth round.
34:17They have not really had like a dirty work receiver.
34:20Even Yoshibas is more of a finesse speed guy.
34:22Colby Young, I think, is the first guy they've had in a couple years where, especially if we're going to be in
34:28a more under center place, which we'll talk about in a second.
34:31We got to have a dude that's going to be willing to dig some safeties out.
34:36And I think that's the first guy in a while they've had that can do that.
34:40And why I think All is important. Drew Sample is a capable blocker.
34:44I think Drew Sample and I run the same 40.
34:47Drew Sample is not an explosive player. He is a strong player that you can play in line.
34:52All is an explosive blocker. Some of the stuff sifting across the formation.
34:55Some of the two back things they can do with him.
34:58If you're going to be a team that wants to be more diversified in the running game and you have two receivers
35:04that will not block anybody, which fine. I wouldn't be asking my $45 million receivers to block anybody.
35:09You need some two tight end stuff where both of those guys are capable blockers and different sorts of blockers.
35:15And I think all they missed him last year because they did not have that type of snap my hips explode into
35:21people guy in that tight end room. And they do now with him back.
35:25It's a deep tight end room in general. Just I mean, like they go five.
35:29I would guess they're going to have five guys on the roster.
35:32It's because Gostick he doesn't really count. Sure. Yeah, it's because he's really just a big receiver.
35:37So let's talk a little bit about that offensive transition because I think both of you are really curious about that.
35:43Derek, what are you watching over the first month of the season with this Cincinnati Bengals team?
35:48Yeah, I mean, I think I've expressed my concerns about it before.
35:51It's like how much of this offense really is new?
35:54How much of it is under center? Are they motioning guys a little bit more?
35:58Does the run game add some more stuff to it?
36:01Because I think, you know, you've brought this up, Robert, that when they got under center, they actually could be explosive.
36:07When they were a shotgun run team, they really weren't.
36:09They were pretty efficient, but they were not explosive.
36:12And when they got under center, they did have a 9.2% explosive run rate, which was top five in the NFL.
36:18Part of that is I think it was a changeup that teams just weren't respecting and ready for because they did it
36:24at the second lowest rate in the NFL. And so I do wonder, because I think in my mind, teams that can
36:30go under center and run the ball, that is a little bit more of we are running on our terms and we get to decide how this goes.
36:38And I still have a little bit of question.
36:40That's important. I think speaking that out is so important.
36:43It is. I just, I think I'm have a little bit more reservations about their ability to actually get there and tie
36:49that into the passing game and what all that looks like.
36:52I think it's something that is necessary for them to, like you said, get over the doorstep from consistently great to elite
36:58and actually defining offensive football in the NFL. I think I just have more questions about what that's actually going to look like.
37:05And again, what does it actually look like when they put it together on the field and how much are they leaning into it really?
37:11This change reminds me of a new year's resolution where it's easy to say on December 27th, this is what I want to do.
37:18And I want to lose 15 pounds and here's how I'm going to do it.
37:22But like the day in, day out consistency is such a huge part of it.
37:26And like, yes, you're doing this to potentially get more explosive.
37:29But you have to like commit to the boring aspect of it to see the results.
37:34I think they're committed to it. I hope you're right.
37:37I don't think this is one of those training camp things where, oh, we're going to do more of this.
37:42If you look at just percentages, they, the way that I understand it, we're talking like 60% under center during training camp for a reason.
37:49They're over indexing on it because they feel like they need to work on it.
37:53Last year, they were down near the bottom of the league.
37:56I think it was like 20%. I don't think this is going to be a scenario where it goes from like 20 to 25%.
38:03I don't think that's how they're envisioning it. I do think they want this to be a more central part of what their offensive identity looks like.
38:10How clean that process is remains to be seen.
38:13But I don't think this is lip service. I don't think this is something they're gesturing at.
38:18They really don't. It's not that I think it's lip service.
38:21It's that I worry that if it's clunky in the first six weeks of the season, do they throw it in the garbage?
38:27Do you throw it in the garbage or turn it down?
38:30Yeah. Especially like if Joe Burrow is pissed off about what is happening because it's not coming quickly.
38:35How do you react to that? And I just worry like they're so predictable.
38:39And obviously they are because they're such a heavy shotgun team.
38:42But even when they go under center, like their run pass split from under center over the last two years is 75-25.
38:48So it's a top five rate. If teams know what you're going to do when you do get under center, it decreases
38:54the likelihood that anything's going to hit the way you want it to.
38:58I think that's the whole point is that they're trying to make all that stuff be tied together in a way that it never has been before.
39:05And I think the explosiveness on the ground is part of this.
39:09Derek mentioned that. They were, I think, 31st in the league in explosive run rate out of the gun last year.
39:15But they're bottom three to bottom five. I can't remember exactly what it was.
39:18And then they were second in explosive run rate from under center.
39:22So the explosive, it's just the diversity of runs that you can have.
39:25You can only run so many things from the gun.
39:28And a lot of those are not explosive runs.
39:31For them, it was a lot of duo and it was a lot of tight zone.
39:35I think you're going to see more mid zone this year.
39:38And I think you're going to see some gap scheme stuff that they think can be more gashes than the things that they've leaned into in the past.
39:46But the other part of this is that if you can get to a place where that run game feels like it
39:52has some oomph to it and people have to start responding to it, that's the situation where you can get one on
39:58ones that you have not been able to enjoy on the outside in a very long time.
40:03Per NextGen last year, 34% cloud coverages against the Bengals.
40:0634%. There is a bigger gap between them and the Vikings at number two than there was between the Vikings and the team in 13th.
40:12It's just a different approach toward them than anybody else in the league is getting.
40:17And so I think their goal is you pick your poison.
40:20You want to play like that and we can do what we think we can do on the ground?
40:25We're going to have a year we've never had before.
40:28And as soon as you have to start accounting for that even a little bit, you are leaving, I think, in my
40:34opinion, the most dangerous player in the world in more one-on-one situations than you are comfortable with.
40:39That is the vision. Whether they can actually execute on that is an entirely different conversation, but I understand the pursuit of it.
40:45Oh, I wholeheartedly understand and appreciate the pursuit. I just hope they're committed to it.
40:49And I assume we talked about it on one of the preseason wrap-up shows.
40:53I mean, it's a very small sample size, but you saw the good and the bad in that preseason game against Detroit.
40:59Like they hit the nice dig for a big chunk.
41:02And then the next time they tried the under center play action, it blew up in their face.
41:07And when it counts, how willing are you to commit to the highs and the lows?
41:11I hope you're right, and I trust that what you're saying is correct, but I want to see it.
41:17I want to watch it closely. That play, which we talked about in the moment, I think is a really good representation
41:23of some of the downsides to this. Joe is so comfortable with where his outlets are because they're so used to playing in a very specific way.
41:30Like I think he can rattle off like and just feel every single escape hatch and vulnerability in every part of how they used to play.
41:37When you're doing this, the picture is just less clear.
41:40Just think about it practically. There are so many more bodies crammed into the core of the formation that if you're Chase
41:46Brown and you're dealing with a tight end or two into the core and there's all this traffic on some of these play fakes, is the linebacker coming?
41:54Is the linebacker not coming? When do I release based on where his body and where his positioning is and whether he's a threat?
42:01That stuff is just all going to be murkier than it's ever been in the environment that the Bengals play offense in.
42:07He's a perfect example. And so I think over time, the hope is you get more familiar and more comfortable with where
42:13those outlets are and the binary of some of those choices in a way that maybe in preseason game one, you're just not.
42:19Who knows? But again, that. And I think some of his outlets, because obviously he is really good at that, at getting
42:25to his checkdowns or even just knowing where to escape in the pocket.
42:29But when you're doing the honor center play action stuff, like the pockets look different.
42:33Where your escape valves are, are different. Absolutely. When and where your checkdowns are, are different.
42:37And I think it's a little bit more of like, I got to trust that Jamar, the half an inch that Jamar
42:44has in outside leverage or on the top leverage of this corner, that he can just go get it.
42:49And I've just got to stand here and throw it.
42:52It needs to be like, you need to be a little bit more like Matthew Stafford or Ryan Tannehill, where it's just like, he's going to be there.
42:59I've got to let it go. And he's obviously talented enough and accurate enough to do that.
43:04That's just not as much the style that they've operated with to this point in his career.
43:09It was fun talking to players there about the transition and some of the things they're having to weigh now that they might not have previously.
43:16Like if you're going to be in a lot more 12 personnel and you're going to have a credible run game, I
43:22think you're going to see a little bit more base defense than you had in a previous world.
43:27And the front variety on early downs and base defense is now much more complex than it used to be.
43:33Talking to Ted Karras, their center, he had a really interesting observation where he was sub packages.
43:37That's when shit would get crazy in terms of things you'd have to identify and just all the moving parts as a center.
43:44Now, because of all the front multiplicity the teams are having to use because they're playing at light boxes with these shells,
43:50it's actually early downs when you're having to work through more of it.
43:53And as they've diversified the run game, he was at a place when I was there about 10 days ago where he
44:00was long handing the run responsibilities where he would literally go down the line and be like, you've got that guy.
44:05You've got that guy, you've got that guy, you've got that guy, you've got that guy.
44:10That's how thorough they were having to be because they just weren't ready for the shorthand stuff yet.
44:15But I think the hope is over time they get there.
44:18The benefit of this is they have a center who is very smart and can get away with some of that stuff.
44:24And I think his role in all of this is worth acknowledging because if you had a guy that wasn't in the
44:30league for 11 years the way that he's been, he's already a smart guy.
44:34This transition might feel a little bit more daunting than it probably does for them.
44:38Yeah. That's a, that's such a great underrated point to make, especially when your quarterback is not as experienced doing this stuff
44:44as, as most others in the NFL would be.
44:47We have not touched the elephant in the room here.
44:49So let's get into it. What is keeping you up at night, Dave, about the 2026 Cincinnati Bengals?
44:54I think we're going to know by week two or week three, whether what they did on defense worked.
45:00And what's keeping me up at night is that we'll know in September that it didn't work.
45:04And we're doing the same shit all over again, hoping that the Bengals can outscore their way to the playoffs.
45:10I mean, it's as simple as that. Like I just, and I'm, I'm all for the Dexter Lawrence trade.
45:15I thought it was good. I know top 10 pick sounds crazy.
45:19Look at the players that we're going to go 10th overall in this draft.
45:22I'm totally fine. Trading that pick for a guy in Dexter Lawrence, even if he's coming off of like a little bit of a down stretch for him.
45:30And I think what you hear from some Bengals fans, I got this a lot when I was talking about and watching
45:36their, their rookie linebackers from last year is that at the end of the season, the Bengals defense did have like a little bit of an upturn.
45:4417th in the NFL and EPA per play in the second half of the season.
45:48They were still, if you, if you remove the final three weeks of the season though, where they played the Cardinals, the
45:54Dolphins and the Browns, which were like by that stage in the season, not real football.
45:58That's a useful, uh, that's a useful caveat. Yeah.
46:01They were, they were the worst defense in DVOA.
46:03And so that is still, obviously you're being anchored a little bit by the early point in the season, but I still
46:10just don't think that they got significantly better to the point where I'm willing to make these proclamations that they are going to get better.
46:16Obviously I think Dexter Lawrence does do a lot for them, but like trying to, you know, fight against myself a little
46:23bit, the giants had Dexter Lawrence the last couple of years and they couldn't get anybody in run defense.
46:28And so like, they were really bad. And I think it's just trying to figure out how good are the players around him.
46:34And I, I, a lot of that to me goes down to what does the edge room actually look like?
46:40Because Shamar Stewart was a zero for them last year as a rookie.
46:43Cassius Howell, I think has struggled a little bit in the preseason.
46:47Miles Murphy actually did come on a little bit at the end of last year.
46:51Like he was, he did. He started to leverage that.
46:54Like he's not going to be a bendy get around the edge guy, but he can actually get into the tackles and really push them into the quarterback.
47:01And he did that better towards the end of last year than, than we thought, but they'd paid a lot of money
47:07to Boye Mafe who over his course in Seattle had lost playing time.
47:11And it was really only like the third or fourth best guy in an incredible edge room.
47:16And now he is arguably, they hope maybe their best guy.
47:19And so I think just trying to figure out how good is that edge room actually around Lawrence, I think goes a
47:25really long way for whether this is good enough or not.
47:28The Shamar turn and Mark Shamar Stewart part of this.
47:31I almost think he's a bonus. Like whatever they get from Shamar Stewart is kind of a bonus, but even if the
47:37only improvements to the edge room, because I think in some of the five down front stuff, Murphy probably plays five technique in those looks.
47:44So just talking purely edge looks and five down fronts, even if it's just some combination of Boye Mafe and then Cassius
47:50Hall rotating it on some later downs, it is so much better than what they had last year.
47:55Because I think part of the problem is if you look at what the defense had to start doing last season, this
48:01team, Sean Desai is a senior defensive assistant on this team.
48:04Ideally, I don't think they want to be playing a lot of loaded boxes.
48:08I don't think that was the goal. But when you look at the way that things were unfolding last year, last season
48:14per next gen, the Bengals gave up a 47.1% success rate with a 0.11 EPA per carry on plays where the offense
48:20had as many blockers as defenders in the box.
48:230.11 EPA per play is the same as Joe Burrow's drop back EPA during that 2024 season.
48:27So every run into a blocked box against the Bengals was a Joe Burrow drop back from 2024.
48:32Jesus Christ. You can't be living that way. They had to play in all these five down fronts because of that.
48:38That's like, we have to play this way. We can't play with these four down structures.
48:43And the only guy they felt really comfortable playing in that other edge role was Demetrius Knight.
48:47So they had their rookie off-ball linebacker who was already swimming, now having to play two different positions.
48:52And so the Dexter Lawrence part of this is huge because now can you play more two high structures because Dexter Lawrence has eaten up those blocks.
49:00But even having one to two guys, you feel comfortable playing on the edge and allowing Demetrius Knight's role to be a little bit more streamlined.
49:07The way that it came up in conversation when I was there, I think it's such a good way of putting it.
49:13Last year, they did a lot of shit because they had to.
49:16And I think this year, because of the improvements, we're in a place where you can do the things that you want to.
49:23And I do think that that transition is hopefully going to be enough for them to feel different on that side of the ball.
49:29I like Boye Mafé for the contract that he got.
49:32I think Brian Cook is an underrated signing. I even, I like Kyle Duggar.
49:36I thought Kyle Duggar did some good stuff for Pittsburgh last year.
49:39Do you think any of this holds up the way that it needs to if Dexter Lawrence isn't exceptional?
49:45No. Yeah. I think he's the most important player on the team outside of Dobro.
49:49I think he needs to, holding him to the 2024 standard before he got hurt is crazy because he was on an unbelievable tear.
49:55But he needs to, he needs to scratch that sort of level.
49:59I think if this is going to work at all, because I just, I didn't mention Jonathan Allen either.
50:04Not John, not, not that Jonathan Allen anymore, but like he can be serviceable for you.
50:09I don't think any of this stuff holds together if he's not worthy of the number 10 overall pick.
50:14And like, if he plays that way, I love the trade.
50:17I liked the trade at the time. If he's that guy.
50:20And I, I hope the, I hope the dip in his production over the last year and a half is more about
50:26being banged up and that's behind him now than a declining player.
50:29Cause if he's a declining player, this is, this is going to suck.
50:33There's been nothing but rave reviews. And what Ted Karras said to me that I think is so important in the way
50:39that he framed it was every player on the defense gets 10 points better because Dexter Lawrence is out there.
50:45And if that's true, that's why you do a trade.
50:47That is the argument for why this can work.
50:50And if it's not true when we actually get into real games, then I think a lot of this stuff starts to fall apart pretty quickly.
50:57I'm my optimism is soaring right now based on what I've seen through training camp, but I've been hurt before, especially by the Cincinnati Bengals.
51:04The area of this team that is still the weakest.
51:07And we've talked about a lot this off season linebacker or something they did not address.
51:11And those guys, Demetrius Knight and Bear Carter, the combination of them just needs to be so much better.
51:16And I think the argument is they put 700 snaps a piece last year.
51:20They took so many lumps, but they never broke over the course of the year.
51:24And I think that, that experience, if you're trying to talk yourself into it, it's like that it was callous, callousing, but ultimately beneficial.
51:31And when you have Dexter Lawrence, Derek, you and I have talked about this.
51:35Like if you're fitting the B gap as a rookie linebacker and half a second into the play, the B gap is three players wide.
51:42It's a little bit harder to play. And the whole hope is that Dexter Lawrence and the edges too, that just ever
51:48the space gets compressed in a way where it makes things a little bit cleaner for guys who are now walking into
51:54year two of this system where things are slowing down for them.
51:57And that's the other thing too, you know, we've talked about so many of these other linebackers coming to the league and
52:04get to play next to a guy who's really good or like, you know, Roquan Smith coming over to Baltimore and he
52:10gets to kind of help Patrick Queen along a little bit.
52:13Well, when it's two rookies next to each other in the first year of a defense, in a defense, it's not very good.
52:19It's like you kind of get why it just didn't look very good.
52:23Yes. I think they made each other worse. And I think that even like their position coach was coming from New Orleans,
52:29where that defense is very different than a lot of the structural things that the Saints or that the Bengals were trying to do.
52:35And so I think it was a learning process for everybody.
52:38And I think that combined with the talent up front, improving and streamlining things a little bit, do is everybody just a
52:45little bit more comfortable heading into the season. It's a rosy outlook, right?
52:48Like that is the positive spin on this, but I think that is the spin you have to be giving if you're the Bengals.
52:55What does success look like, David, for the 2026 Cincinnati Bengals?
52:58Justify the amount of attention that is paid to you as a franchise.
53:02Because Joe and Jamar and T means, and what they did in 21 and 22 means a lot of talk for a
53:08team that has now missed the playoffs three years in a row.
53:11Yeah. Win the division, make the playoffs, preferably win a playoff game, resemble the team that was very briefly Kansas City's biggest rival in the AFC.
53:18Win a playoff game. Win one. Yeah. And I like definitely if they get knocked out in the first round, that would be embarrassing.
53:25To me, it's you have to win the division.
53:27And the reason I say that they are the only team that really has continuity here.
53:32And I know that we're excited about the Ravens.
53:34We just spent a lot of time on them.
53:37But the Ravens are flipping over their staff. The Steelers are flipping over their staff.
53:41The Browns are flipping over there and the Browns aren't going to be any good.
53:45But like they are the team that like they're kind of keeping a lot of the same horses and same pieces together.
53:51This should be your division unless Joe Burrow gets hurt again.
53:54That's another thing keeping me awake at night, but I just didn't even want to say that.
53:59Yeah. We've done no real need to mention that.
54:01I think it goes without saying. Yeah. I think that's always in the back of your mind.
54:06Before we get to the Steelers, let's take one more quick break.
54:09Let's get to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Our preview for the 2026 Steelers.
54:13They're offseason in 60 seconds. Mike McCarthy in as the head coach.
54:16Patrick Graham in as the defensive coordinator. Traded for Michael Pittman?
54:19Didn't they trade for Michael Pittman? Traded for Michael Pittman.
54:22Signed Jamel Dean, Rico Dowdle, and Jaquan Brisker. Lost Isaac Sayamalu, Kenny Gainwell, and James Pierre in free agency.
54:27In the draft, Max Ahanashor in the first round, Jeremy Bernard in the second round, Jennings Dunker, Drew Aller, and Daylon Everett all in the third round.
54:35A lot of third round picks for the Steelers this year.
54:38Derek, what are you most excited about for the 2026 Pittsburgh Steelers?
54:41We talked about it on the new Play Caller show, but Patrick Graham with this collection of defensive talent, you know, it's
54:47a little bit similar to the Minter thing to me, right?
54:50Where like Minter was able to do so much with fine talent.
54:54And I think what Patrick Graham had been able to do for years at different teams with kind of so-so talent, even
55:00less than that, obviously last year, I think with the Raiders has been always really impressive.
55:04And now you have a Steelers team that I know they're a little bit older, but like Jalen Ramsey is still a good player.
55:11Joey Porter, if they figure out the contract thing, really good player.
55:14Their defensive front is mean. Like I just, I'm really excited about what this can look like.
55:19And also compared to last year for Patrick Graham, having some of the inhibitors taken off.
55:23Like I think last year he was calling the defense a little bit under the Pete Carroll vision because, you know, Pete Carroll was obviously there.
55:30I think this year, I think under the duress of both the staff and the talent and the talent on your duress for multiple front on multiple fronts.
55:38Yeah. Like Pete Carroll was probably telling me to load the box a little bit more.
55:43And also the fact that like, he just didn't have players was like, all right, we got to at least stop the run.
55:49And so I think that that was just, he's always been a little bit more of a kind of like blitz happy,
55:55funky fronts playing a little bit more man coverage than he really did last year.
55:59And I think that the talent that he has here in Pittsburgh, I do think that they are fit for it.
56:05And so I'm just excited about what it's going to look like.
56:08Also one quick player shout out on top of all the star players there, Daniko Slaughter, who is, I think the backup
56:14nickel for them, because it's probably going to be a Jalen Ramsey.
56:18He's been playing with the ones in the preseason.
56:20That dude is a dog. He is like, whether it's like run blitzing, like he had a really nice play on like a deep outbreaker.
56:27Like that dude is nasty. And so if he has to play at any point in this season, I'm really excited to watch him.
56:34This is the first time I've, I mean, the first and only time on a national football podcast, you're going to be hearing about Daniko Slaughter in August.
56:42I feel excited about Daniko Slaughter. The backup nickel.
56:44First time for now. He'll, he'll, he'll, he'll have his moment.
56:47Is there a bigger gap in overall quality in a city?
56:50When you look at interior defensive line rooms with the Steelers and the Raiders.
56:54Buddy, maybe not. Cause we, yeah, we, we just talked about like, are the Raiders are as bad as anybody in the Steelers?
57:00I mean, even if like Hayward's a little bit older and Harmon's not perfect, like this is way better than he's had.
57:07Just, it's going to be hard to move these people compared to what the Raiders were dealing with.
57:12And so I'm with you. This, this was mine as well.
57:15I think the defensive front talent, I'm very excited to watch.
57:18You got three edge guys. I think those guys, we moved around a little bit more.
57:22We always say that about TJ Watt. I do think it's going to happen a little bit more this year.
57:28You know, Keanu Benton just signed that contract. Derek Harmon is still like a, I think you don't feel some of the
57:34disruption that you saw with him at Oregon, but he's still very strong space eating player.
57:38Yaya Black is going to play for them as a nose.
57:41Like there's just so many bodies they can cycle through there.
57:44And so I'm excited to see this defensive talent with Patrick Graham.
57:48And you said it, Derek, 17.4% man coverage last year for the Raiders, which was 31st in the NFL.
57:53That's not how he wants to play this. He's a new England guy.
57:56Like if it were up to him, if he had his druthers, he'd be playing a shitload of man coverage.
58:02They are set up to do that. They are set up to play that way.
58:06It's how the Steelers have been playing man with some cover to change-ups, I think is Patrick Graham's ideal world.
58:12And the Steelers can do that. And you think about just the way they had to load the box last year in
58:18Las Vegas, that's not going to happen because of the front talent that he has.
58:22And so this is the first time we've seen Patrick Graham in years as a defensive coordinator with a level of defensive
58:28talent where it's like, all right, not how can you get by, but what can you really be?
58:33What heights can you reach with the players that you have here?
58:36I am very excited to watch what that can look like.
58:39The Steelers defense having Steelers defense potential again. Very exciting.
58:42For me, I'm going to let my inner draft Nick come out.
58:46I adore Omar Khan's stubborn insistence on nailing the offensive line.
58:49I like to imagine him in the war room saying, I said, get another one.
58:53And everybody's like, oh, but shouldn't I get a receiver Omar?
58:56Like, what should we? No. They draft Maxi and not sure, like two years after going Broderick Jones and Troy Foutanu back to back.
59:02Don't care. Get another one in here. Broderick Jones hasn't really worked out.
59:06We'll get another first round tackle. And the offensive line loaded might be a stretch, but there's so much promise and so much potential here.
59:13And I love it when somebody I respect confirms my priors because our friend respected here, Brandon Thorne.
59:18You see his project where he ranked the entire entirety of the offensive lineman in the league.
59:23It's incredible. You should go check it out for Bleacher Report.
59:26Brandon has Troy Foutanu as his number 10 left tackle in the NFL heading into this season.
59:30In the same exercise, this is one I was really pumped about because I've long been an admirer of Zach Frazier.
59:36Center two in the NFL behind Creed Humphrey. And then Mason McCormick is like a mid-tier guard.
59:41Dylan Cook, who stepped in admirably at times last year.
59:44He's ranked 28th among left tackles and Broderick Jones even hasn't been good for Broderick Jones, but still 34th among 40 graded left tackles heading into this season.
59:52Steelers have a lot of talent here. And then you add Maxie and Adjord to this.
59:56I am enamored with the idea that when the Steelers do have their quarterback of the future, he's going to be playing behind a mammoth of a unit.
60:04And that's I'm excited to see how those guys grow and develop.
60:07I mean, Frazier and to a lesser degree, Foutanu have already kind of arrived.
60:11But how much more can you take it? Like, I want Zach Frazier to be more of a household name.
60:16I think this is the year where that can happen.
60:19I agree. I think this is the year where that can happen because I think that unit has a chance to impress some people.
60:26And then that's how the drumbeat starts. Hanushar is tough.
60:29He got hurt during training camp. He's back, though.
60:31He did get hurt. He missed time. And I think for him specifically, the talent is obvious.
60:36And the talent was obvious to them physically. But he's just still so inexperienced that missing any bit of time was going
60:42to make it harder for him to get on the field early.
60:45So I wonder when we see him. I'm not expecting to see him quickly because, again, Cook and Broderick Jones, you have two options.
60:52I don't think we see Broderick Jones. I think if Dylan Cook gets hurt, a Hanushar plays.
60:57Regardless, I don't think we're going to see him early.
60:59But in November, December, for some reason, are we excited because he's pancaking the shit out of people?
61:04I can't wait to find out. That group coming together with him getting some late season run, I think, would be a
61:11little bit of optimism heading into the season, no matter how this ends for the Steelers, which we'll get to here in a little bit.
61:17Yeah. I also think an underrated thing about the offensive line, you know, Fautano had mostly played a lot of right tackle.
61:24And so the fact that he's like so locked into left tackle now, which is his native position in college, it's very exciting.
61:30One more thing I wanted to add, too, because it ties in together with the offensive line.
61:35Rico Dowdle and Jalen Warren's a really underrated duo of running backs to be going behind what I think is going to
61:41be a pretty damn good offensive line. Yeah. The Kenny Gainwell, Kenny Gainwell had a really nice season last year.
61:46Had a really nice season. But the Kenny Gainwell, Jalen Warren pairing was always kind of strange.
61:51I think the Rico Dowdle, Jalen Warren pairing does make a little bit more sense if you're trying to put that room together.
61:57I mean, part of the reason, obviously, is that Caleb Johnson just never turned into the guy they hoped Caleb Johnson would be.
62:04They thought they had a big body downhill runner last year.
62:07It turns out they did not. Nothing has ever not happened faster than Caleb Johnson and Pittsburgh.
62:12Yeah, he muffed that one like kickoff in the preseason game.
62:15It was over. It was completely over. But Rico Dowdle, you know, he's an imperfect player.
62:19He's mostly a rundown player. But like there was a point in the year, I think he was leading the NFL in
62:25a rushing yards last year when the Panthers offensive line was healthier.
62:28So like if the Steelers offensive line is like what the Panthers offensive line was early in the year, which I think
62:35they absolutely have the talent to be that or better.
62:37All right. Rico Dowdle can just go mash people for four quarters.
62:41And I think that that could be a viable way to offense.
62:44Rico is one of 12 running backs over the last two years with 50 plus explosive rushes.
62:49And then Jalen Warren, I think most people think highly of him.
62:52I think both of Rico and Warren, I just think fantasy depresses your opinion of them because it's very hit or miss
62:58on a week to week basis what they're going to do.
63:01But they're both good players. And if this offensive line is as good as I think it'll be that that should be a lot of fun.
63:08Dave, what are you watching over the first month of the season with these Pittsburgh Steelers?
63:13I'll be honest. This wasn't on my radar until the last three or four days.
63:17What the hell's going on with Joey Porter Jr.
63:19Man pass. Yeah, that's the direct quote from Mike McCarthy.
63:22Never want to hear that, by the way. Mike McCarthy says, you know, I understand there's there's a business side and a
63:28football side and we're kind of at an impasse.
63:31And then Jalen Ramsey and Patrick Queen are talking about how the Steelers need to pay Joey Porter Jr.
63:36What he's worth. Not not what you want to hear if you're trying to get excited about the Steelers defense achieving a new ceiling in 2026.
63:43I do want to shout out as long as I'm shouting out friends and colleagues.
63:47Brooke Pryor over at ESPN had a very interesting nugget to me.
63:51She mentioned in her story about this that the Steelers just longstanding, not surprising because they're one of the old original families of NFL ownership.
63:58They don't typically do deals after the season starts, which puts a pretty firm deadline on when this can get done.
64:04And despite that fact, there's been no progress on talks, even though Porter basically hasn't had a training camp.
64:09And she also said the Steelers have not made or even received calls.
64:12Why is nobody calling if the Steelers if the head coach is willing to say on the record that we're at an impasse?
64:19Why is nobody calling? And what does that mean about what Joey Porter Jr.
64:23wants? What's he asking for if nobody's calling? I mean, we just saw some pretty significant leaps in the cornerback market, and
64:29I assume he wants to get in on the fun.
64:32Whether he should or whether he's worth that, I think, is the conversation.
64:35According to Brooke Pryor, Porter said in June that he feels like he's been the lead guy since he's been in the league.
64:42So look at the numbers at the top of the cornerback market.
64:45I think mystery solved, but we got two and a half weeks till the season, and a pretty big piece of this
64:51thing is not participating, and that worries me. Yeah, that whole man coverage plan is a little bit less scary if Joey Porter Jr.
64:58isn't involved. It's a little bit dependent on having the second or third best press man corner in the league.
65:03And I will say, I think what makes probably the calls thing complicated, I mean, there should be some amount of calls.
65:09And he's an incredible player. Somebody should be at least poking around at what it costs.
65:14I do think, though, he's probably in a weird position where if he's asking for elite, truly top of the market money,
65:20if you're going to have to trade assets for him and then pay him that, I only really want to do that
65:26if it's like Patrick Sertan or Derek Stingley. And I think when you're a tier-ish below that, I just get a little
65:32bit scared about leveraging whatever it might cost to go and do that.
65:36Like if it costs you the Sauce Gardner trade in terms of assets and then you got to pay him, I'm like, man, I don't know.
65:43That just feels like a lot. Even for a player that I really like.
65:47That's part of the argument for this. I don't think it would take you two ones.
65:51But part of the argument, I think, with the Sauce Gardner trade, even if we can all agree that they probably shouldn't
65:57have done that and wouldn't do it again, he'd already been paid.
66:01Yeah. So you're getting like a relative discount with the Sauce Gardner trade in part because you don't have to pay out
66:07any bonuses and the market has already settled and has exploded since after you had already accounted for that money.
66:12So it's something that's absolutely worth mentioning. Derek, what do you watch in the first month of the season with the Pittsburgh Steelers?
66:19I'm just curious if this offense has some sort of other different gear, because I think obviously last year Aaron Rodgers is what he is.
66:25The offense is going to be limited in some capacity in what it's able to do.
66:30But obviously, like also the receiver talent last year was just terrible.
66:33It was like DK Metcalf and then like Ben Skoranik or Roman Wilson, who I still think didn't really have like a super role.
66:40Adam Thielen at his stage in the career. Yes.
66:42Like this is what they were working with. Now they trade for Michael Pittman, who is, I think, a completely solid starting
66:48wide receiver, who they can move around a little bit, which I think helps them when I expect them to play more
66:5511 personnel, 11, you know, more three wide receiver sets.
66:57It's what McCarthy does. It's what Rodgers had always liked.
67:00And then they drafted Jeremy Bernard, who I think is a little bit more like you want to spit the ball out to him.
67:07But again, they didn't have a whole lot of that last year outside of being able to do that out of the backfield.
67:13And so the fact that they have a receiver now who I think can do that and he's looked good in the
67:19preseason, like he just defenders just bounce off of him.
67:22He does have like a way with like he's not he's not really elite at anything.
67:26But like people just miss when they're trying to tackle him.
67:30And I do think, yes, just a useful NFL player.
67:32So the fact that they've added those guys to the room, I think that that I just they don't have to be
67:38elite, but they were like 15th in DVOA last year.
67:41It's not a bad offense. I don't think there's any world where they're elite.
67:45But can that creep up to a really boring and ugly 10th in DVOA?
67:49I do. We'll talk about we'll talk about whether that's possible.
67:52I don't think the receiver talent is ultimately was going to determine that personally.
67:56I wanted to say this when you ran through the offseason, though.
67:59I hear you. And I know he got a new deal as part of it.
68:03Getting Michael Pittman Jr. for a swap of sixth and seventh round picks is ridiculous.
68:07He's going to get cut. I mean, I know, but that's what I'm like.
68:11He's a better player than that. I understand the considerations that go into it.
68:15Like I'm I'm with Derek. I know Rogers is going to be a big piece of that.
68:20But I really like this Steelers receiver score. I totally agree.
68:23I like everything about the Steelers, except who they're playing at.
68:26If they had anybody else, we're stepping on with keeping you up and hey, let's save it.
68:31But the Roman Wilson part of this is also interesting.
68:34You know, he they had he'd been battling with Jeremy Bernard for that third receiver spot early in training camp and even
68:40in the middle part of training camp. It's kind of been an uneven preseason for him, but they're very different players.
68:45And so just having Roman Wilson is like a vertical slot option and Jeremy Bernard being more of like an underwork dirty work underneath dirty work guy.
68:53I do think there are complementary skill sets between those two guys.
68:56I think we'll see all four of them. But yeah, it's a drastically improved receiving room.
69:01The thing I'm looking just looking at watching very quickly.
69:03What does the offense even look like? Like what is this version of the Mike McCarthy offense look like?
69:09And what I the element of that that I find most curious is that Brian Angelico came over as his offensive coordinator.
69:15Brian Angelico was on the Packer staff for two to three years when Mike McCarthy was there.
69:20But he has spent a lot of time in the Shanahan world outside of that.
69:24He was in Cleveland with Kyle Shanahan in 2014 2015.
69:27And then he was with the Vikings over the last few years as their I think tight ends coach and maybe passing game coordinator.
69:33But there is a lot of stuff that is not necessarily native to the Mike McCarthy offense wide zone under center tons of motion.
69:40And that's never really who Mike McCarthy has been.
69:42Even if you look back like the 23 Cowboys when they were doing a little bit more of that stuff, it always
69:48felt like they were like cosplaying as that. Like it's like, oh, that looks cool.
69:53Let's do some of that. And I think that's part of the reason it ran out of gas is that it was
69:59not a native part of who they were trying to be offensively.
70:02And I think that you felt them kind of, it was harder to keep tapping into that.
70:07Having somebody who really comes from that world and believes in it and is like, no, we're going to do some of this stuff.
70:13I'm curious what that version of a Mike McCarthy offense looks like because we really haven't seen that.
70:18I mean, his staffs when he was in Dallas is a lot of Green Bay guys.
70:23It's a lot of like, let's get the band back together.
70:26This might feel a little bit different in that specific area.
70:29All right. You ready for it? You ready for the conversation?
70:32Let's do it. Dave, what is keeping you up at night about the 2026 Pittsburgh Steelers?
70:36The thought of being someone's wildcard weekend sacrificial lamb for the fourth year in a row and wondering what we're all doing.
70:42I totally forgot they made the playoffs last year.
70:45They made the, yeah, exactly. You would be forgiven, by the way.
70:48It's four, three years in a row and what it like five of the last six years they've made the playoffs and
70:54they have lost those games by double digits every time.
70:57And I, what keeps me awake at night is going through.
71:00It's such a long season. And like, I was the one, you know, Rogers had a handful of moments last year that I thought were really fun.
71:08The defense found itself at some point. Those three throws, just that one Ravens game.
71:12We'll never forget them. He did. He had some moments.
71:15Okay. Even the year before that, Russell Wilson gave him a shot in the arm.
71:19And I was like, maybe, maybe Russ can play well enough.
71:22And like over the course of a season, you can talk yourself into all this bullshit.
71:26And then there we are in early January watching them get trounced.
71:30And what keeps me awake at night is doing this for five months for the fourth year in a row and wondering
71:36why we did it when it's over. My short term, what's keeping me up at night?
71:40Rogers is not good enough. As the rest of the roster shows promise, he's just not good enough.
71:45And that's kind of where I sit with this.
71:48Until proven otherwise, the way that he plays the position right now is not viable for you to be like a serious offense.
71:54No, not to be like a if if like the best version of what it's supposed to be is like, can you
72:00just squeak into the AFC championship game somehow? How he plays currently, that's not on the table.
72:05It's just not possible. I 100% agree. Like I just it's not even a matter of like physically he still has it.
72:11He just is not playing the position in a way that allows you to be a certain thing offensively.
72:16Like just the sheer not when I don't we can go through all the numbers if you want to the sheer number
72:22of throws beneath the six, how quickly the ball is coming out the throws that he's choosing to make.
72:28Like it's go balls or it's one on ones like that.
72:31That is what he is choosing to do. And it's been that way for multiple years now.
72:35This is not just last season. It was like this with the Jets.
72:39And so I just don't have any reason to think another year older, another year of not wanting to be hit is
72:45going to make this thing look any better. So that the short term is he's just not good enough to justify all
72:51of the relative excitement we have about other areas of this roster.
72:54The long term is this team wins nine games and you send yourself back into purgatory.
72:59Where it's not just being the wild card sack wild card weekend sacrificial lamb where you're being offered up to the Texans.
73:05It's you're just good enough to be in a spot next spring where it's like who is going to be the quarterback for this team?
73:12Maybe it's Drew Aller. Like that's what we're going to have to bank on.
73:16Fine. Right. Like maybe that is a viable thing.
73:18How many third round picks that are projects end up becoming guys that you're able to roll with when the rest of
73:24your roster feels like it's ready to win? And that's my concern.
73:28It's just this is a long bigger picture existential dread thing as it relates to this team.
73:32And I think it's totally justifiable to think existentially with the Steelers because we've done this.
73:37Like what? And those dudes are old. What? Seriously.
73:39What do we I know y'all y'all just talked about sneaking into the AFC title game.
73:44Like what do you realistically think the ceiling is?
73:46Because I even I had a moment while I was prepping and Derek highlighted everything that's excited about patch exciting about Patrick Graham.
73:53And I found myself thinking, well, if Patrick Graham can just unlock a higher level from this defense, you're sixth in defensive
73:59DVOA in 2023 and eighth in defensive DVOA in 2024.
74:02How much better is it realistically going to get?
74:04I think it's a little bit more resilient. That that to me is the argument.
74:08It's not even about overall quality over the course of the season.
74:12It's do you have a little bit more optionality?
74:14Are you harder to pin down? Are you less predictable?
74:17Are you a little bit more dynamic and varied that I do think that's real over the course of a season?
74:23They could end up in the exact same spot.
74:25Do they are they food in the playoffs? Because that's what's happened is that they've been good over the course of the
74:31season because they had this level of talent. And then we get into the playoffs where you have a Todd Monken or
74:37somebody else that can be like, all right, here are the five things I'm just going to hammer over and over and over again.
74:44They're not going to have an answer. And I think that is potentially the biggest change about this defense.
74:49It's not where the numbers look like by the end of the year.
74:53It's how vulnerable do they feel against the real teams and the real quarterbacks in the most important games.
74:58It doesn't regardless doesn't feel like enough to go.
75:01I don't think so. Like divisional round as the absolute ceiling.
75:04That's what I was. I think there's a world where, you know, Dave, I think you actually framed it perfectly.
75:09We're like for three years now when they get into the playoffs, they're the worst team in the AFC.
75:14And whoever they play, you are not picking the other team or you are picking the other team.
75:19You're not picking the Pittsburgh Steelers. I think that there's a chance that they are a little bit better than that this year.
75:26But my like what is keeping me up at night is kind of splitting the difference between long term and short term.
75:32Like what if this old roster, Robert, like you just talked about, just falls apart.
75:36Like T.J. Watt is old. Cam Hayward. It's kind of a miracle he is continuing to do the defense is old.
75:42The offense is young and the quarterback outside of the quarterback.
75:45The defense is old. Right. The defense is old and you need them to be good.
75:49Jamel Dean is not necessarily old, but he's hurt all the time.
75:53The same is true of Jaquan Brisker. And then you just mentioned it.
75:56The quarterback is 58 years old. And so I just think that there's a chance that if those guys kind of fall
76:02apart and it starts to wither away, that sucks for the short term.
76:06Right. Because then you're just like this year is kind of nothing.
76:09And it kind of hurts for the long term a little bit because then it's like I just feel like you end
76:15up in a weird position where it's like this version of the roster as old as it is with Rogers there.
76:21This is kind of your chance right now to do it.
76:24And I think next year is going to have to be some sort of reset.
76:28So if you don't do it now, it just feels like you don't have any sort of momentum moving forward.
76:34I just think if you're a Steelers fan, the worst case scenario here is that you signed up for the Mike McCarthy
76:40experience and you put yourself back into the exact same world that you just lived in with Mike Tomlin for too long.
76:46That to me is what would be keeping me up at night.
76:50By the way, Derek, Jamel Dean isn't old. Jamel Dean will turn 30 in October.
76:54He's not young. He's a third contract corner. He's not young.
76:57And so you look at it. There are a lot of important pieces of this defense and expensive pieces of this defense that are very much.
77:04They're a lot closer to the end of their careers than they are to the prime of their careers.
77:09And so there is a chance that next year they can turn a lot of this stuff over.
77:14If Cam Hayward moves on and they figure out something with TJ Watt, they decide to keep Highsmith instead of Watt.
77:20They have her break. A lot of the young defensive tackles.
77:23They have young pieces there. They can get young in a hurry if they want to and turn the page.
77:29But then we're having an entirely different conversation. It's no longer the Pittsburgh Steelers as we understand them.
77:34I almost forgot to do what does success mean for the Steelers because we're so mired in what the existential dread part of this looks like.
77:41Derek, what is success for the 2026 Pittsburgh Steelers?
77:43I mean, I think the fact that we almost skipped it kind of says it all.
77:48But I genuinely do think that, like I talked about it a little bit, success is just not being the team that
77:54feels like the automatic win in the playoffs. Like if you go into it and you at least feel like the Steelers
78:00have more of a fighting chance than they did last year, that's probably success.
78:04I don't think the ceiling is super high here.
78:06I think that's right. I think it do you when we on wildcard weekend, if that's where they're playing, are we excited about the Steelers game?
78:14Do we find it interesting? Do we find it compelling?
78:16Do we think they have a shot? Is it not just like an obligatory thing we have to put on the TV for three hours?
78:23Because that's what it is felt like over the last couple of years.
78:27I'm going to keep it existential. And I think in a good way, you might say it's bad because I'm sort of
78:33I'm writing the Steelers off for the year. But it's easy to imagine a world where we're so excited about the 2027.
78:39I think that's right. I actually think that is real successes.
78:42If like I said, if the offensive line whips ass and the running backs go buck wild and the receiver core is
78:48awesome and all your points about the defense are fair and who knows how many of those guys will be there next year.
78:55But if Patrick Graham lays the foundation for this being a really good, solid defense and you're basically just like if we're
79:01plopping a competent young quarterback into this thing, we could go somewhere.
79:04And maybe that's Drew Aller or maybe it's Mac Jones or maybe it's a guy you trade for.
79:09You don't have to figure that out right now.
79:11But if this looks like it could be a really kick ass team when Aaron Rodgers retires and you get off this
79:18ride and look to get younger and better at quarterback, I think that's a successful season.
79:22I do, too. And I actually think that's right.
79:24Like at this point, the playoffs is whatever. We've done that six out of the last seven years.
79:29Give me a reason to think the Steelers could be a Super Bowl contender in 27 and beyond.
79:34I think that's successful. I think you're right. I think that is more important than whatever the playoff success or the playoff performance looks like for the Steelers.
79:42Get to our last one here. The Cleveland Browns are a preview for the 2026 Cleveland Browns.
79:47They're offseason in 60 seconds. Hire Todd Monken is their head coach.
79:50Mike Rutenberg is their defensive coordinator. Signed Zion Johnson, Elton Jenkins, Quincy Williams in free agency.
79:55Traded for Titus Howard. Just signed Derek Barnett. Five million dollars for Derek Barnett.
79:59That was like two weeks ago. Lost Devin Bush, Wyatt Teller, Ethan Posich in free agency.
80:03Drafted Spencer Fano, Casey Concepcion, Denzel Boston, Emmanuel McNeil Warren, Austin Barber in the third round.
80:07Did you mention Derek Barnett's there because Alex Wright's out for the year?
80:11Oh, we'll talk about it. Okay. We'll talk about it.
80:14As somebody who drafted the Browns, I'm not very happy.
80:17Feeling a little less good. Not happy. Derek, what are you most excited about with the 2026 Cleveland Browns?
80:22Well, Dave, I'm going to try to get your spirits back up.
80:25I still think this defense is insanely talented. And obviously, you know, you're swapping out Myles Garrett for Jared Verse, who again,
80:31Jared Verse, to reiterate, is still a top 10 edge defender himself, even if he's not Myles Garrett.
80:36And so this is this is Carson Swessinger. This is like 98 percent Carson Swessinger.
80:40This is what's coming out of Derek's mind. I think he's making a lot of good points.
80:45Keep going there. I mean, you do have Carson Swessinger who, listen, I truly think that by the end of the year,
80:51if he's the guy that we're talking about behind Fred Warner, I that is that is I would say more likely than not.
80:58Like, I really believe that he is that level of talent.
81:01More likely than not. I think he's incredible. He's I said it when we talked about awesome.
81:05I don't even remember when I said this. Maybe I said it for second year breakouts or something like that.
81:11He's already broken out. But like he really is the only linebacker that I've seen.
81:15And he's the only linebacker that I've seen since Fred Warner, where I'm like, that guy moves like Fred Warner.
81:21And so and he's big. Like, I just I believe in the talent, even if he's I would like to see him
81:27get a little bit stronger taking on blocks, but he's still a good player, even outside.
81:31Outside of all of his very well-researched analytical analysis, Derek just goes and he's big.
81:35He's he's a he's a big he's a big boy.
81:38He makes a lot of plays that way. So they've got that.
81:41They bring back Quincy Williams, who we talked about in the play caller show.
81:45Played really well with Mike Rutenberg in New York.
81:48And so I think that that can be like really nice for them.
81:51The defensive line does have talent like Mason Graham.
81:54There's a chance that he takes another step. Malik Collins is back and practicing.
81:58And if people don't remember when Malik Collins was healthy last year, he was like the most explosive, destructive defensive tackle in the NFL.
82:04He was incredible last season. It was unbelievable watching him.
82:07And then I still think the secondary is fairly talented.
82:10And so like this to me, just like they've got talent all across the board.
82:14Even if edge depth is a little bit of a concern now that Alex Wright is going to miss the season.
82:20I just think they've got dudes at all three levels.
82:23And I'm relatively like my interest is peaked in what Mike Rutenberg might do at this defense.
82:27I feel like losing Alex Wright. It was funny when I was there.
82:31We're talking. I was talking to somebody just about the idea of them having to manufacture a little bit more pressure in
82:37a world where they don't have Miles Garrett. And the thought was like, let's just say we lost Jared verse for any stretch of time.
82:44And with when Jim Schwartz was there, it was just kind of like a rush for or even rush five and play a little bit of man.
82:52That's what you were going to do. They weren't like a heavy blitz team when Jim Schwartz was there.
82:57They don't have to be when Miles Garrett's on the team.
83:00But I think my Rutenberg is a coach that if they needed to manufacture a little bit more pressure, you look at
83:06what they did in Atlanta last year where they did have to live that way.
83:10The amount of zone they're playing behind it. Just the variability behind the blitzes.
83:14The Browns last year played more man coverage behind when they blitzed any team in the league.
83:19I think that there's just going to be a wider menu of stuff behind the pressure looks in a Mike Rutenberg world.
83:25And already without Alex Wright, you're going to have to start tapping into that stuff.
83:29And so I think that is part of the optimistic case for why this defense, even without Miles Garrett, can just feel still dangerous and dynamic.
83:36Because they're going to be doing different things than they did last year.
83:40Even if there's a lot of carryover with the DNA that I think allows the players to still be comfortable.
83:45Up front, language, techniques, everything else. Defense line coach is the same.
83:49There's still enough carryover where there's continuity and scheme.
83:51But I think there's a little bit more diversity on the back end to just give teams a little bit more trouble in some of those situations, hopefully.
83:59And I think it's pure preseason optimism. But if I was a Browns fan, you're hoping that you haven't seen close to
84:05the best from Mason Graham to this point. Yes.
84:08Like if he ascends, it's crazy. With the amount of studs that they found in last year's draft, Graham was the first one off the board.
84:15And he's the one that you're kind of waiting on.
84:18And if he takes any sort of step this year, that makes me feel much better.
84:22We've talked about this a couple times over the course of the summer.
84:26That attack front, it takes a while for guys to get used to playing that way, especially if you've never done it before.
84:32And Mason Graham is a perfect example of that.
84:34I think in the back half of last season, he was getting a little bit more comfortable with that play style.
84:40And I think that they expect him to take a step there.
84:44And the other guy, like he was a throw in in some ways with the trade.
84:48Jared versus an incredibly good football player. Jared versus really good.
84:51The reason that the Browns made the Miles Garrett trade isn't because they wanted some picks for Miles Garrett.
84:56Jared verse is the thing that pushed that thing over.
84:59Because now you raise the floor of what the trade can be.
85:02If you get five first round picks for Miles Garrett and none of those hit, it's a disaster.
85:07Now the trade can only look so bad even if you miss out on those picks because you know what Jared verse is.
85:14The fact that Jared verse is a good enough player that you feel comfortable trading Miles Garrett, I think speaks to what Jared verse already is.
85:21That's actually a really good way to frame it.
85:24I hadn't thought about that because I mean the Browns are notorious for getting two and three first round picks in years.
85:30And they're like, it doesn't really amount to anything.
85:32But when you bring in a guy like Jared verse where unless he gets injured over the next handful of years, he
85:38is a top 10 edge player for probably a long time.
85:41Like the trade really only can look so bad.
85:44That's a really good way to frame it. He doesn't turn 25 until this sometime this season.
85:48We talked about it over the summer. Dave, what are you most excited about watching with the Cleveland Browns?
85:54It is, I would say probable, not even possible.
85:56It is probable that last year set my expectations too high.
85:59But when you do what the Browns did in last year's draft, I mean, you found a future all pro caliber guy
86:05in Derek and I's opinion and Carson Swessinger. You redo the tight end room.
86:09You find a really fun tight end in Harold Fannin.
86:12The running back room is completely revamped. You have two.
86:15And so to get all of those guys, and like I said, you're still, hopefully Mason Graham has more to show you in year two.
86:22To have all of that from one year and then you turn around and have two first round draft picks and a top 40 pick in Denzel Boston.
86:29All three of those guys are expected to start.
86:32I mean, that's half your starting lineup in big time draft picks over the last two years that you have sky high expectations for.
86:39It's not fair that I'm over the moon about Spencer Fano, Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston, mainly because of what the rookie class last year did.
86:46But if it's even close, if they're even close to as impactful early as last year's rookies were, this is an incredibly
86:52exciting team by the end of 2026. My just the young pass catchers.
86:56It's involved in that. Fano's your favorite. I love Fano, but I just, I'm excited to watch the pass catchers.
87:01I'll, I'll, I will, I'll embrace exactly what you're saying.
87:04Well, I will agree with you. All the young players.
87:07Give me, give me all the young players. There's so many of them.
87:10My, my two favorite players in this draft, the Browns drafted both of them.
87:14Spencer Fano, in case he can step you out.
87:17And so the fact that both of those guys are going to be part of this in week one, I'm really excited about that.
87:23The Denzel Boston hype has been crazy during training camp.
87:26This collection of pass catchers with those two guys and Fannon, like Fannon was incredible last year.
87:31And so the ad Fano to that mix, the young defensive players, I mean, that, that is why this team is worth watching.
87:37I'm curious with the pass catching spots, like how it all comes together, because I just don't know what Fannon's role looks
87:43like in an offense where you have these options.
87:46Like they did so many schemed up touches for him last year and maybe conceptual only takes some of those, but I
87:52just wonder how the role shake out. And I don't think they know the answer to that right now.
87:57And the other like kind of nerdy specific thing is.
88:00I don't know what without in Joku to eat some of those inline snaps and you can move Fannon around.
88:05What is his role look like? Because they do not have an inline player right now.
88:10They drafted Joe Royer in the fifth round. He has not practiced and Blake Whitehart right now is like their other option is an inline blocker.
88:17And so if you don't feel good about having an inline, why, what does that mean for Fannon's role?
88:22How much 11 personnel can you play with him as the tight end?
88:26That it's, it's a fun collection of players. I just don't know how it all comes together cohesively.
88:31And I think that's the only thing holding me back from being just overly excited about it.
88:36Sounds like something you want to watch in the first month of the season.
88:40That is, I probably should have included that. What are you watching in the first month of the season, Dave, when it comes to this Cleveland Browns team?
88:47I remember talking about it in March, but it's wild the way the Browns are just microwaving an entirely new offensive line.
88:53Yeah. Like to bring the whole thing in. I think Tevin Jenkins is the lone holdover from last year's offensive line.
88:59And obviously Spencer Fano is, is the big name there.
89:02Cause he's the top 10 pick, which really encouraging in the preseason.
89:05He was going against the bears. So that's probably.
89:08Well, he was baptized by fire in the first two weeks or in the first week and a half.
89:13Okay. That's a great point. Having to play against Jared verse.
89:16When your biggest question mark is overall play strength is a very good early test.
89:20Was it? I think it was, I think it was Fano who said in early August, I've been practicing against the best
89:26football player I've ever played in my life for two weeks straight.
89:30Jared verse made Teron Armstead quit playing in the NFL.
89:32Could you imagine if your first taste of NFL football was having to play against that guy like 30 times a day?
89:39So not only did he look really good against the bears, the Browns did not play him in the bills game.
89:44Too good. They just sat him out. Yeah. Too good.
89:47We've seen what we needed to see. Incredible stuff.
89:50So I assume it's going to be Fano, Zion Johnson, Elton Jenkins, Tevin Jenkins, and Titus Howard.
89:54I think that's right. How's it? How quickly does that come together?
89:58What is Fano's learning curve in the regular season?
90:00How do four guys that have never played together coalesce and how quickly does it happen?
90:05And on top of that, I don't expect the quarterback play to be very good.
90:09And so how, how do we parse the performance of the offensive line in a less than ideal quarterbacking situation?
90:14Like, are they good, but they look bad because of the quarterback play?
90:18Are they outright good? Is it shakier than that?
90:20It's something to watch. I think it has to be better than it was last year.
90:25That's like the first place my mind goes. High bar.
90:28But it was so bad last year. And so I think people are looking at this and be like, man, so many new moving pieces.
90:35What can we expect from the Browns offensive line?
90:37World's better than it was a year ago. Last year, Cam Robinson played 700 snaps for this team.
90:42KJ Levinson, who's a backup guard now, was a tackle who played 650 snaps for this team last year.
90:47They were so banged up. They've been so banged up.
90:50So I think we have this idea of the Browns offensive line in our minds where it's like, oh, Wyatt Teller and Joel Petonio and all of this.
90:58We have not seen that version of this offensive line in a really long time.
91:02Teller missed four games last year. Petonio played every single snap.
91:05But for the most part, this has been a devastated group.
91:08So even if there's a lot of turnover, even if you have a rookie at left tackle, I still think it's just
91:14going to be a significantly improved overall unit from what we've typically been watching with this team.
91:19And I think just specifically at tackle, you feel like you have competency here, right?
91:23Like the fact that Fano was as good a prospect as he was and has looked pretty good in the preseason.
91:29And then Titus Howard over at right tackle. Like it's those two positions that the bookends have really been the part that
91:35I think has been the most revolving door for them, especially since Jack Conklin really started getting hurt a couple of handful of years ago.
91:42Like the fact that that feels more stable now, I do think should go a long way for them in terms of baptism by fire, though.
91:49Do you know who they get in week one?
91:52They get the Jaguars. So Spencer Fano getting Josh Heinz Allen and Trayvon Walker week one is like, all right, man, let's see.
91:58Let's see if you're up for it. And I do think he will be.
92:02But that is a hell of a week one for him.
92:05It's Tampa right after that. So those followed by whatever Todd Bowles is going to draw up for you.
92:10Speaking of blitz happy defensive coaches, Derek, what do you watch in the first month of the season with the Cleveland Browns?
92:16I mean, yeah, we can kind of sprint through it because we did this on the play caller show.
92:22But for me, it really is just like, what does the defense look like and how different is it going to be?
92:28And like you said, I think a lot of the front structure and language and stuff, a lot of that should be the same.
92:34It should be a lot of attacking stuff. I just think on passing downs, this thing is going to look a little bit different.
92:41And, you know, Jim Schwartz, you mentioned a little bit earlier, a lot more man.
92:45And his changeup really was always like cover two.
92:48He just loved to get some weird cover two stuff.
92:50That's what he liked to do. The tree that Rutenberg is coming from, they really don't play a lot of cover two.
92:57They play a little bit less man and they play a lot more quarters, especially on early downs, which if you're playing
93:03it with match principles, it does become man. And so that's more what I expect to see because that's still how you want to use these corners.
93:10That's still what Denzel Ward does best. That's still what Tyson Campbell still does best.
93:14And so I think it's going to look a little bit different.
93:18And how much growing pain do we get in the first four to six weeks where I think every team is really
93:24trying to figure out what they want to be and what they want to call.
93:28I think that's what I'm most interested in with this team.
93:31The one curiosity I have, I agree with all of that.
93:34I'm really interested to see what it looks like because I just think that Falcon staff did such a good job last
93:40year with their talent of getting the most out of that group.
93:43I'm just curious what Emmanuel McNeil Warren's role is going to look like.
93:47I asked when I was there and they were keeping that pretty close to the vest.
93:51Is he somebody that we see in a nickel role when they're playing some big nickel stuff?
93:56How fast do we see him as a starting safety?
93:59I just haven't been able to find a lot about what the exact plan for him is going to look like and
94:05how early we're going to see that plan come together.
94:08So that's another just kind of curiosity thing I have about the defense.
94:11I because his role has been so under wraps and at training camp, I didn't even think about him among the rookies and young players.
94:18But throw him on the pile. There are so many big time draft picks that I want to watch.
94:24I mean, it sounds like they're keeping this close to the vest.
94:27But did you hear anything about like if they want to do some stuff about getting McNeil Warren on the field, like
94:33Delpit maybe playing some of the big nickel? Because he's a player who I think is really good in the box.
94:39I don't know if that's something that they would ask him to do.
94:42I didn't know. I literally asked a specific question about it, and it was kind of one of those like we're going to keep that to ourselves.
94:50And so I don't have any information about that.
94:52It's really one of the only things that even like in a background conversation, somebody was just like, now I'm good.
94:58I was like, all right, sounds good. I guess we'll all find out together when we're going to see from Emmanuel McNeil Warren this year.
95:05The last thing I'll say about just curiosities, things we're excited about.
95:08We have not really mentioned this at all. Todd Monken is already a singular personality as an NFL head coach.
95:14Sure is. So I just, a man that will say anything.
95:17And I think somebody that, the comparison I made even when he was hired is, if this goes well, it's just Bruce Arians.
95:23And I do think that they are the closest comparisons in the sense of 62-year-old guy deep into their careers doesn't give
95:30a f*** about any of this stuff in terms of like what he should be saying and how he should be operating.
95:36And so I'm just curious to see how that goes.
95:38It could be, it could go off the rails pretty fast.
95:41It wasn't a great start in terms of how this whole quarterback situation was handled, but I'm interested in it because there's
95:48really no head coach in the league quite like Todd Monken.
95:51Clearly, like just over the last, from the time he was hired going back to the combine and obviously it hasn't always
95:57been fun with what we've been dealing with the quarterback situation in Cleveland.
96:00But that's, when I see a Todd Monken clip come across my timeline, I'm going to unmute and see what he has
96:06to say, which I don't do that for every head coach in the league.
96:10At the very least, Todd Monken is 60 years old.
96:13Decent retirement package. I mean, if that's it and Todd's kind of riding into the sunset after this, I think it's going to be okay.
96:20Fire me. Fine. Sweet, sweet. Buy out. What is keeping you up at night, Derek, about the 2026 Cleveland Browns?
96:26The quarterback might, the quarterbacks might sink in otherwise pretty interesting offense.
96:29And I think more than, obviously, I don't think the results for this year really matter, but I do think that there's
96:35a chance that it's so bad and it's so naughty that we're not really, we're not as confident as we want to
96:41be that the 2027 Browns are like the spot to be in.
96:44And I do think that that's where this gets, and it goes back to what Dave was saying about the offensive line too.
96:51Like if the quarterback play is so bad that we, it's a little bit hard to untangle how good or bad the
96:57offensive line is because the quarterbacks are just putting them in such a bad position.
97:01I think that's where this becomes like a really freaky season.
97:04The quarterback discourse in general also just the week to week process of how that's going to go.
97:09Sucking every ounce of joy out of what otherwise could be a somewhat exciting season.
97:13Yes. Yeah. And on top of that, the idea that the quarterback play in Cleveland could leave us confused about how good all these young players are.
97:21Or, you know, if I don't come in here on a Sunday night dying to talk about what Denzel Boston did, that's sad.
97:27If Denzel Boston's just doing cardio and Casey Concepcion's just doing cardio all year and Spencer Fano's fighting for his life because the quarterback play is not good.
97:35That's, that's just sad for everybody. In addition to how toxic this is going to be.
97:39And it will be for a variety of reasons.
97:42So, yeah, I can't say I'm looking forward to it.
97:45And I think that brings me into what a success for the 2026 Cleveland Browns is that excitement about the young core maintained throughout the season.
97:52But when we get to the end of this year, are we in a spot where you're looking at a collection of
97:58guys, Judkins, Swessinger, Graham, Fannin, Fano, Concepcion, Boston, McNeil-Wern?
98:00You're like, man, there is a really exciting, promising group of young players here.
98:04And we get to the end of the year and all that other bullshit didn't do enough to completely sap whatever optimism
98:10you have about what this group can look like moving forward.
98:13If we find ourselves excited by the end of this season about what the Browns young players look like, if we find
98:19ourselves in a conversation on December 15th being like, man, you look at the 2026 quarterback or 2027 quarterback carousel and the
98:26guys are going to be available in the draft and the Browns have a top five pick.
98:30And imagine name a college quarterback. Arch Manning. Yes.
98:33Dante Moore. Dante Moore. Lenore Sellers. Imagine Dante Moore with this group of players.
98:37What can this look like? If that's the conversation we're having after the college football season has wrapped up and we're transitioning
98:43to draft time, that to me is success for the 2026 Browns.
98:46That is a pertinent caveat. I say it tongue in cheek, but there's.
98:50There's truth behind it to successful season for me is being just as excited about the young players in January as I am right now.
98:57And you tune into building the beast every Wednesday during the season and good luck.
99:01Thank you. We're excited about the quarterbacks and we're not.
99:04Dane and I in October aren't saying, oh shit, it happened again.
99:07It's a one quarterback class. No, you want there to be two to four guys worth being intrigued by.
99:12I think that would go a long way toward building some enthusiasm for 2027.
99:16I mean, there's not a whole lot to add.
99:19It's the young players look good. And I would say the other small thing is like, I think if the defense mostly
99:25maintains its level as like a top 15 unit, you feel good about the change like that sort of stuff.
99:30Like again, if we feel as excited now about these young players in the defense as we as if we feel as
99:36excited at the end of the season as we do now, that's success.
99:40The fact that we're excited at all about the Browns, I think speaks to how many young promising players are currently involved in this situation.
99:47All right. That is all we've got with the AFC North preview.
99:50We will be back tomorrow with the NFC South.
99:53NFC East. NFC East is tomorrow. We decided to let the NFC East take us into the weekend rather than the NFC South.
99:59No offense to the NFC South, but the NFC East will take us into the weekend and be at the top of your fees.
100:06On Saturday and Sunday. Cowboys, Eagles, arguments go and it'll be good.
100:09We've already covered that one. No, we'll do it again.
100:12It's fine. I'm in on the Eagles. I've decided.
100:14Coward. All right. That's all we've got for today.
100:17We'll be back tomorrow with the NFC East preview.
100:19Appreciate you guys listening. Talk to you very soon.
100:22Thanks for tuning in. Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode.
100:27If you enjoyed what you heard, please like, comment and leave a rating.
100:31We'll see you next time.
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