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Week 5 Recap: 49ers & Vikings stay undefeated, Drake Maye goes off, WTF Bears?!

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 47 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Oct 12, 2026
Published
Mon, October 12, 2026
34
Player insights
28
Players mentioned
Topics
Kyler MurraySam LaPortaMike EvansSam DarnoldAaron JonesAJ BarnerAlvin KamaraBrandin CooksBrock PurdyChris OlaveChristian McCaffreyElijah ArroyoEmanuel WilsonGeorge Holani
Player analysis

Player insights

34

Aaron Jones

PositiveUsage32:28

Jones had strong performances in the Vikings' win over New Orleans, including a 20-yard gain on a drive where he ripped off runs, and a touchdown on a power play where the Vikings bullied the Saints in the red zone; he also had a 32-yard reception on a play where Kyler Murray scrambled for 6.5 seconds in the pocket.

Insight page

AJ Barner

NegativeRole28:00

Barner was expected to be more involved in the Seahawks offense this year as an ancillary pass catcher, but so far the offense has not really featured him as much as anticipated; the source notes that another year of Barner, along with Elijah Arroyo in year two and a full offseason of Rashid Shaheed, were supposed to make the offense more consistent, but that hasn't happened up to this point.

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Alvin Kamara

NegativeUsage40:00

On the opening play of the game against Minnesota, Kamara received a check-down dump from Shuck after Cashman came untouched through the B gap, resulting in a five-yard loss. This illustrates how the Vikings' defense dictates offensive flow and forces early-down check-downs rather than downfield progression.

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Brandin Cooks

PositiveUsage0:13

Cooks caught a touchdown pass where Purdy 'buys time and creates that himself' on an out-of-structure play; the source identifies this as one of the key moments in the 49ers' crucial late-game drives against Seattle.

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Brock Purdy

PositiveProjection0:04

Purdy made an impressive impression in the 49ers' 32-29 win over Seattle; the source highlights his ability to make plays outside the pocket, including a touchdown to Brandon Cooks where he 'buys time and creates that himself,' and notes he 'did so much stuff out of structure' while also 'standing in the pocket and ripping five or six really impressive throws against this defense,' even with one interception to Maya Pritchett.

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Chris Olave

NegativeUsage39:30

Olave was the intended target on a late-game interception thrown by Shuck, where the quarterback appeared to abandon progression and chuck a go-ball despite not being under immediate pressure, suggesting Shuck's loss of confidence against Minnesota's blitz scheme affected downfield target distribution.

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Christian McCaffrey

PositiveUsage0:12

McCaffrey scored a touchdown on a check-down run where Purdy recognized Seattle's defensive front alignment and audibled into the gap; the source notes 'Purdy checks into that because the front that Seattle is in, they have like a two eye just inside the left guard' and 'they climbed to a well and had some really good combo blocks and they got him into the end zone.' McCaffrey also had an 11-yard touchdown run where 'Evans is so condensed on that play that he almost becomes a tight end the way that they're blocking it.' The 49ers' run game showed marked improvement, with a 47.8% success rate on blocked-box runs in this game versus 17.6% in the playoffs and 25% in Week 18.

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Elijah Arroyo

NegativeRole28:00

Arroyo in his second year was expected to be more involved in the Seahawks offense, but so far the offense has not really featured the ancillary pass catchers as much as anticipated; the source notes that the same helping of JSN target volume from last year has continued rather than spreading the ball to more receivers.

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Emanuel Wilson

NegativeRole23:00

Wilson has had some nice moments for the Seahawks but is a downgrade at running back with Charbonnet and Jadarian Price unavailable; he does what he can but the Seahawks are limited without their preferred backs.

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George Holani

NegativeRole23:00

Helani has not produced anything for the Seahawks so far this season; the source notes that without either Charbonnet or Jadarian Price available, the Seahawks are toothless, and while Emmanuel Wilson has had some nice moments, they are downgraded at running back, and Helani has not contributed.

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Hunter Henry

PositiveUsage59:19

Was featured on a beautifully timed screen play that was well-executed by the Patriots offense, exemplifying Josh McDaniels' improved play-calling in Week 5.

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Jadarian Price

NegativeInjury23:00

Price was lost for a significant period of time after the Seahawks already knew they would be without Charbonnet for six weeks; he still has a few weeks remaining on injured reserve, making the Seahawks' running back situation dire and their offense toothless.

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Jameson Williams

PositiveUsage47:02

Williams scored multiple fourth-down touchdowns for the Lions, including one on the back line; the source highlights these conversions as part of the Lions' aggressive fourth-down strategy that helped them overcome early offensive struggles and eventually dominate the Cardinals.

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Jared Goff

NegativeUsage46:04

The source critiques Detroit's offensive play-calling in Week 5, noting that Jared Goff was strip-sacked on a second-down play-action from shotgun formation early in the game. The source suggests the Lions' early-game reliance on shotgun formations was ineffective and contrasted with their more successful under-center approach later in the game.

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Jayden Daniels

NegativeRole65:07

In the final minute of the Commanders-Giants game, failed to execute proper clock management on the final play; called a boot play action pass where he didn't boot out all the way and should have thrown it away if covered, instead fiddling around and trying to run, allowing the clock to run down to nine seconds; despite being a year-three franchise quarterback who won the Heisman and has been starting since age 14, didn't have a beat on the situation and deserves blame for how the final play was handled.

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Jordan Mason

NegativeInjury33:54

Mason is still on injured reserve for the Vikings, limiting their running back depth and explosiveness; Aaron Jones is the primary running back option.

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Josh Oliver

NegativeInjury35:15

Oliver was already hurt, leaving the Vikings depleted at tight end alongside Hockenson's early loss in the game against New Orleans.

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Justin Jefferson

PositiveUsage30:37

Murray showed willingness to put the ball in Jefferson's vicinity, which the source notes cannot be taken for granted after the last year or so of Vikings football; Jefferson made three insane catches in the game, including a 19-yard completion in the first quarter on a scramble drill where he snapped off a crosser and got a chunk gain.

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Kyler Murray

PositiveProjection30:00

Murray showed impressive down-to-down decision-making against New Orleans, completing his first 11-12 passes with some really impressive plays going where he needed to; the source believes if Murray makes decisions as well most of the time as he did in this game, the Vikings will be pretty good.

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PositiveUsage30:48

Murray had seven scrambles for 54 yards and three first downs against New Orleans, which is double what he had in the previous two starts combined; one scramble that didn't result in a first down turned what could have been a 61-yard field goal into a makeable 55-yard field goal that the Vikings made; this playmaking and athleticism is what excites the source about his performance.

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PositiveRole37:48

Murray demonstrated extended pocket mobility on a key third-quarter play against New Orleans, evading pressure for 6.5 seconds (per NextGen Stats) before finding Marvin Jones for a 32-yard gain. The source notes this showcases Murray's ability to create plays deep into the down, though emphasizes the need to stack such performances against stronger defenses beyond the Saints.

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Lamar Jackson

NegativeInjury0:02

Jackson was unavailable for the Ravens' Week 5 overtime win against Atlanta; the source notes Baltimore won 'on the road with a backup quarterback' and expresses hope that 'Lamar being back sooner rather than later' as the team sits at 4-1.

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Marvin Jones

PositiveUsage37:48

Jones was the beneficiary of Kyler Murray's extended pocket escape, catching a 32-yard pass on a play where Murray evaded pressure for 6.5 seconds. This demonstrates Jones' ability to win downfield when given time to develop routes.

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Mike Evans

PositiveRole0:07

Evans made critical catches in the 49ers' final drives against Seattle despite playing with broken ribs; the source highlights his 'insane grab on a slant over one of the DBs' at the goal line and a 'deep back shoulder ball' catch on second-and-21 that kept a drive alive. The source notes Evans was 'the single receiver on one by three' and that Kyle Shanahan 'don't have to scheme it up every time'—Evans can 'just find the huge guy to go make a play for us.' The broadcast showed a close-up of Evans' face after a catch where 'he looked like he was about to cry,' illustrating his toughness playing through injury.

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NegativeRole18:55

Evans was deployed in 11 personnel against Seattle and was so condensed on one play that he functioned almost like a tight end in the blocking scheme, resulting in an 11-yard touchdown; this situational personnel grouping allowed San Francisco to run the ball consistently.

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Parker Washington

PositiveUsage67:30

Made an incredible play to bail out Trevor Lawrence in the Jaguars-Eagles game; described as the reason the Jaguars won, with Lawrence relying on him despite play-calling delays and false starts creating chaos in the offense.

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Rashid Shaheed

NegativeRole25:50

Shaheed was targeted by Malik Mustafa on a defensive play where Mustafa flew out of the roof to hit him at the sticks on a third-down stop; the source had expected Shaheed to be more involved in the Saints offense this year after a full offseason, but so far the offense has not really featured the ancillary pass catchers as much as anticipated.

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Sam Darnold

NegativeBust0:18

Darnold threw multiple interceptions in the Seahawks' loss to San Francisco, including picks on his first attempts of each half; the source notes 'this is more of a trend than you would prefer' and flags that he 'threw picks on his first attempt of the Chargers game last week,' expressing concern: 'That would trouble me.'

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NegativeProjection22:00

Darnold continues to lead the league in turnovers; while the Vikings won the Super Bowl with him leading the NFL in turnovers last year, it's pretty hard to repeat doing that, and the source feels the problem is worse than it was last year, with fewer positives to offset it and the offense being more stop-and-start.

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Sam LaPorta

PositiveRole43:38

The source highlights Sam Laporta as a standout performer in the Lions' Week 5 win, noting he's "really good" and contributes meaningfully in both pass-catching and run-blocking roles. Laporta was involved in key blocking assignments, including a play where he blocked Baron Browning on a strip-sack attempt, demonstrating his value as a two-way tight end in Detroit's offense.

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PositiveRole43:49

In the Lions' dominant 45-point performance against the Cardinals, Laporta exemplifies the depth and quality of Detroit's offensive weapons; the source specifically highlights him as a reminder of how many good players the Lions have and how effective their offense can be when humming.

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PositiveUsage47:27

Laporta had a pivotal game with two fourth-down touchdown plays: a fourth-and-one score where he ran an out-and-up route with nobody in his vicinity, and a fourth-and-three conversion where he ran a big boy in-breaker route against Denzel Burke and Jared Goff found him on the backside; the source emphasizes the fourth-and-three play as the biggest moment of the game, as missing it would have left the Lions down 7-0 and handed the ball back to Arizona.

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T.J. Hockenson

PositiveInjury35:15

Hockenson was lost on the second snap of the Vikings' game against New Orleans; he had been Kyler Murray's favorite target in the previous two games, with Murray throwing him the ball all over the middle of the field, so his absence will be tough for the offense.

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Trevor Lawrence

NegativeRole67:30

Lost his mind in the midst of play-calling delays and false starts coming in late, with play calls arriving late causing false starts and inability to get lined up; despite the chaos, made insane plays and relied on Parker Washington to bail him out; described as the most happy-go-lucky guy who is not usually bothered by anything, but was visibly pissed off during the delay-of-game stretch.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

1,388
0:00Welcome to The Athletic Football Show brought to you by the U.S.
0:03Bank Smartly Visa Signature Card. I'm Robert Mays, an eventful week five in the NFL.
0:08Let things off with just a quick chat about the Sunday night game.
0:11We'll dig into that in earnest on the hangover tomorrow.
0:14But then me, Dave and Derek went long on the Seahawks Niners game, a phenomenal game between two very good teams.
0:20Chatted a couple NFC North teams in attention, Lions, Vikings, Vikings are 5-0, Drake Maye with a monster day.
0:25Chatted about the ending of the Washington State. Washington Giants game, which is still one of the most bizarre sequences I can remember in an NFL game.
0:33Plenty of WTF moments in week five. Bears, Jags, Eagles, everything about Broncos, Chargers, and then got a little bit romantic about
0:39Jalen Warren and the season he has had so far.
0:41All of that with me, Dave and Derek. Let's get to it right now.
0:45A lot to dig into from the week five slate.
0:48We're going to go through all of the important stuff that happened today, but let's start just with the ending of that Sunday night game.
0:55Obviously, you guys just watched that when in overtime.
0:58Your comment about the overtime drive, one hell of a drive, two straight, one hell of a drives from the Ravens to get that thing over the top.
1:05That was such an impressive drive. I mean, just the stats, 14 plays, seven minutes off the clock in overtime, sure.
1:11Had us wondering what happens if you just take all 10 minutes of overtime on your first possession.
1:16That was a soul snatching touchdown. Take the ball home.
1:19Yeah. Just walk out the tunnel on your way through.
1:22But I mean, it's new. Puntley picked up a few big third downs there.
1:26The one does a flowers I thought was particularly impressive.
1:28And then by the time you get down close to the end zone, Derek Henry had like probably two runs where they
1:35were just moving the pile and you could just feel them leaning on the Falcons and you could feel how exhausted Atlanta's defense felt in that moment.
1:42And it just it was very impressive. And, you know, we always say this, like we're working on the rest of the show while Sunday night's going on.
1:50And it felt like every time I checked in on this game.
1:53It just felt like Atlanta was in control. And for Baltimore to rally and take this thing on the road with a
1:59backup quarterback is a really, really impressive win. Based on how the Falcons have been playing the last couple of weeks, if
2:05you're Baltimore, this is the exact type of game that would be easy to lose.
2:10Backup quarterback, the center you just traded for isn't ready yet.
2:13So your offensive line is still in sort of a makeshift place.
2:16And so for them to steal this one and come out at four and one, hopefully with Lamar being back sooner rather than later.
2:23Again, this is absolutely one that in a lot of situations you can drop.
2:27And that did not happen. They were up eight.
2:29Atlanta was up eight with six and a half minutes to play.
2:32And that's what I'm talking about. I looked up and I was like, OK, like this is a game.
2:38But I feel good about Atlanta holding on to this.
2:40And then Baltimore had other plans. And they also finished it in like that's the entire ethos of their team is to
2:47be able to run out the clock that the way that they did.
2:50And also like with the overtime rules now, where even if you score a touchdown, the other team gets it back.
2:56There is a lot of value of draining what at least six, six and a half minutes off of the clock if you can.
3:03And they drained like a little bit over seven, I believe.
3:06And so that is like in the modern NFL, the perfect overtime drive short of what Dave said of like literally running
3:12out the clock and getting all 10 minutes, which is pretty hard to do even if the Bucs did, you know, did it on Thursday night.
3:19We're going to dig into this game in earnest tomorrow on the hangover.
3:23We'll be hitting Ravens Falcons from Sunday night. We'll be chatting about Bengals Dolphins.
3:27And we'll also be talking about Texans Titans, including a full breakdown of the Marvin Harrison Jr.
3:31trade. We have some thoughts, but didn't want to shoehorn that into the Sunday night recap.
3:36We want to sit with that a little bit.
3:38So those are the three games that we will be hitting tomorrow.
3:42Like we typically do Sunday night game is usually how we kick off the hangover plus a couple more games.
3:47So that is what is on tap on the Monday into Tuesday show.
3:51Let's kick things off with this recap, talking about the 49ers knocking off the Seattle Seahawks 32 to 29.
3:56The Niners are now five and oh, Seattle falls to three and two on the season.
4:01What do you want to start this conversation? What is your lasting image of this game?
4:05The fact that it was bizarre as shit. The fact that here's here's what I'll say.
4:10And I'm curious if you think I'm being a hater.
4:12An entertaining game. And at times a really well played game like I like Brock Purdy made an impression on me in this game.
4:19Jackson Smith and Jigba is obviously incredible. Like there were there were pockets of really high level football played here.
4:25But for arguably the two best teams in the NFL to play a game decided in the final two minutes by three points.
4:31Not a particularly good game. Like when you combine for seven turnovers.
4:34I'm left wanting when you're talking about like really deciding who the best team was.
4:38I don't mind it that much because I do think it was a lot of.
4:43I was gonna say it was a lot of very good defensive plays.
4:46It was a combination. I think there were some tough offensive moments.
4:50I mean a couple of the Darnold picks are as much bad choices as they are great defense.
4:55But I think I still come away believing in the overall quality of this.
4:58It kind of reminds me a little bit. It's not exactly the same.
5:02But when we think back on the Rams Chiefs Monday night game from 2018.
5:06And the amount of points scored in that game.
5:08There were multiple defensive touchdowns in that game. And so you can have a little bit of sloppiness and still be a very good team overall.
5:16I think that's the case of both of these.
5:18As iconic as that game was though. When I think about that Rams Chiefs game.
5:22I'm just like what a bunch of goofy bullshit happened in that game.
5:26And like I have no doubt in my mind that these are both really good teams.
5:30And I said it right when the game ended.
5:33The Niners not only are they 5-0. They went to Lumen and beat the Seahawks.
5:37And they I don't care what the Rams travel arrangements were.
5:40They beat the shit out of the Rams to start the year.
5:44That's two as good resume building wins as you could ask for in the NFL.
5:48No doubt. And so I think I think some of it was really weird.
5:52And I wish it had just been a tighter game.
5:54I wish it had been. I wish there hadn't been so many moments where I was like well that was really stupid.
6:00But still a highly entertaining game and a very impressive win for the 49ers.
6:04Just to put a point on how weird the game was.
6:07I looked this up immediately after it ended. We had 28 combined first downs between the Niners and the Seahawks in this game.
6:14And 61 combined points. Those two things in tandem have happened three times in an NFL game in the past 27 seasons.
6:20Since 2000 that's happened three times. The last time it happened was during a Bengals-Browns game in 2013 that we had that
6:26few first downs and that many points. And so if you came away from watching that game thinking, man, what a weird game.
6:32You would be correct about that. We do not see that type of game in the NFL very often.
6:38It's about once every 15-ish years. 18-yard touchdown drive for San Francisco.
6:4124-yard touchdown drive for Seattle. 11-yard touchdown drive for San Francisco.
6:44Fumble return touchdown for San Francisco. Zero-yard touchdown drive.
6:47Zero-yard touchdown drive. 23-yard touchdown drive for Seattle after the Debo.
6:50Or excuse me, after the Purdy fumble. Yeah, I mean it was kind of a shit show.
6:54And it's still a great game. But I think that's worth saying.
6:58Derek, what's your answer to that question? Yeah, because it was such a shit show, I think I was actually weirdly impressed
7:04that the Niners were able to win the game that they did.
7:07Me too. Like I think in a lot of ways, like there have been stretches where they've been a team that can
7:13win from behind and win games that are weird and stuff like that.
7:17But for the most part, Shanahan offenses have been like they are best when they can get the ball rolling early.
7:23Defense can pass rush and they can like really snowball on you.
7:26This was a really bizarre game. And they did get help from their defense, obviously.
7:30But there were stretches where like some of the two high pressures that Seattle were calling were really giving Purdy issues.
7:36The two trap call where they get him on the interception.
7:39Like they had some good stuff on the Seattle defense.
7:42But the fact that you get proof of concept with Mike Evans in like every way.
7:46And we already have seen that, right? But you have the goal line drive where he makes just an insane grab on
7:53a slant over one of the DBs. They have another play later in the game where exactly what we talked about coming
7:59into the week, where he's the single receiver on one by three.
8:02The safety poaches away and they throw him. They throw him like a deep back shoulder ball.
8:07You hit one or two dig routes over the middle to Mike Evans.
8:10Like you they wanted a player who could come in in the passing game and say, hey, Kyle Shanahan, you don't have to scheme it up every time.
8:18Purdy, you don't have to go make a play every time outside of the pocket.
8:22We can just find the huge guy to go make a play for us.
8:26And he did that for them. And so the fact that they could win that game that way and the last little
8:32bit of it, they ran the ball better in this game than I thought they would.
8:37Like there were stretches where it really, really worked for them, where I thought this was a Seattle front that there was
8:43a chance that they could just dominate them. And they did.
8:46The 49ers did not let that happen to them.
8:48The last two drives the Niners had, it was the it was the question we started the preview conversation with.
8:54Why will this be different for the Niners offense in this game than it was the last couple of times we saw
9:00these two teams play in week 18 and in the playoffs?
9:03Those last two drives, I think, are where you felt the difference for them to go up 29.
9:0829, 26, and then for them to put the game away.
9:11OK, so they drive or they go up 29, 26.
9:14Derek already pointed out one of the plays, but there was a third and 10 big time completion to Evans where he hits like a big in breaker.
9:22Ernest Jones steps up just a tiny bit, just a little tiny bit because of the shallow that's coming.
9:27Purdy's willing to let that thing rip. It's a conversion.
9:30And then, like Derek just mentioned, second and 21 after an intentional grounding from Purdy.
9:34They throw that back shoulder ball to Mike Evans.
9:37So not only is it the type of play that no receiver on the Niners is making last year deep outside the numbers like we talked about.
9:44It's a second and 21. You're behind the sticks.
9:47The drive should probably be over. I'm going to give this guy a chance and he's going to go make a play for me.
9:53So those two catches, in my opinion, just that drive in general for them to go down and score, that feels different.
9:59And then to put the game away when they were to put the game away, that final drive.
10:04When you have 29 at 29, 29, they have two chunk runs to start the drive.
10:09It's an eight yarder and then a 13 yarder.
10:11You have an 11 yarder to Kalen Black. Their ability to kind of impose their will on the ground in multiple different moments in this game, San Francisco.
10:19That, to me, is what felt the most different.
10:22And some of it, the Niners or the Seahawks didn't play that many light boxes in this game, but they did play mostly neutral boxes.
10:29And so I think a good way to look at this is on blocked box runs.
10:33So plays where you have as many blockers as they have defenders in the box.
10:37What did the performance look like? In the playoffs last year, the Niners had a 17.6% success rate on those runs.
10:43In week 18, it was 25%. In this game, it was 47.8%.
10:46And you felt that. That, to me, other than the Evans stuff, was the biggest difference between this version of the Niners
10:53and the one we saw at the end of last season.
10:56And Derek, those were the crucial differences. Like, those were the things they needed to be able to do against this team.
11:02And so even if it was an uneven performance overall, even if the Seahawks made them earn it almost like for 90%
11:08of this entire game, when it came down to it, those final drives, those were the differences we wanted to see.
11:14And those are the differences that we saw. Yeah.
11:16And it was beautiful because the run game last year was just them slamming Christian McCaffrey into a wall three yards at a time.
11:23Absolutely no chance. They had nothing. And now I think, and, you know, Dave pointed this out when we were doing the
11:29preview, the interior of the offensive line is playing better than it really has at any point.
11:34It was a mixed bag today. They were very good in the run game and Connor Colby got hooked in pass protection.
11:40It's Seattle. Yeah. Pass pro was a different game.
11:42But the fact that you won somewhere. Yes. What you won somewhere when you were supposed to lose everywhere, I do think is some amount of improvement.
11:50Absolutely. And so I think that the fact that the run game could win that way.
11:54And then I even, I do want to give Purdy some credit on, I think it was the first Christian McCaffrey touchdown.
12:00Purdy checks into that because the front that Seattle is in, they have like a two eye just inside the left guard.
12:07And then the next guy on the defensive line is like way out in the D gap, like outside of a receiver who's near the line of scrimmage.
12:14And Purdy's like, well, shoot, let's just run it into the gap.
12:18And they did that and they, they climbed to a well and had some really good combo blocks and they got him into the end zone.
12:25And like the fact that you can kind of, obviously this offense has always had checks in the offense that they can do that.
12:32But the fact that they're winning schematically that way, but then also still having moments where they're just not letting themselves get
12:38pushed around and being able to generate runs late in the game.
12:41Like the fact that again, it doesn't have to just be, can Purdy make six plays for us outside of the pocket?
12:47The fact that they've got the tools that you would want to see from a Shanahan offense does make them very, very scary.
12:54And he did make a couple of those plays.
12:56Right, he did. But it's just not only that now.
12:59That is going to be a necessary part of the equation for them when they're playing at their best.
13:04You want to just be able to roll on schedule and within structure.
13:08And we've seen this offense show they're capable of doing that.
13:11That's what they look like at their best. But against this defense, it's never going to look like that.
13:16And so you need for him to be able to make a couple of those out of structure creation plays.
13:22And that was the touchdown to Cooks. Like he makes that play happen.
13:25I know y'all, y'all broke down a lot of the plays, but that entire touchdown drive to go up 29, 26 was incredible.
13:32And like outside of the turnovers, if I'm looking for snapshots to remember this game by, getting surge and having explosive runs
13:38against this front, even if it was inconsistent, that's one.
13:41But that touchdown drive, the intentional grounding where Iman Wari just did not bite on the boot fake at all and was right in his face.
13:48That was his only incompletion of that drive. He hit Evans on the 15-yarder on first and 20, which I did want to make a note.
13:55I loved the broadcast. It was such a great shot.
13:58Evans, the play we already showed where Okada just crushed him on the inbreaker.
14:02He's playing with broken ribs. Yeah. And they zoomed in on Mike Evans' face after that catch, and he looked like he was about to cry.
14:09And I was like, yeah, holy shit. Like these guys play through a lot of stuff, and you can kind of forget
14:15that over the course of a game from like the 30,000-foot broadcast view.
14:19But the close-up of his face in that moment, I was like, this dude is gutting through some really nasty shit to play this well.
14:26We didn't need this season from Mike Evans to appreciate how legendary of a player Mike Evans is and what he's done in his career.
14:33But I do think sometimes it's helpful when guys—Brady.
14:35Brady going to Tampa is an example of this to me, obviously on a different level.
14:40But when a guy changes circumstances and you kind of have to look at him a little bit differently and we control
14:46for so many of the different variables, and it's like, oh, man, yeah, this guy, like, even if you take him and
14:52put him in a different spot, what an incredible player he is.
14:55And so Mike Evans doing this on this team in these moments and us seeing him contribute to this sort of offense,
15:01that just playing with broken ribs like that, toughing that stuff out, how important he was for the Niners to win this game.
15:08The moment where he turns Trayvon Diggs around to look at the back of his jersey.
15:12Mike Evans is running up the score on his legacy so far this season, and I find that very beautiful.
15:18I'm very happy for all the love Mike Evans is getting here.
15:21But again, on that drive, like, Purdy on the touchdown to Cooks, he buys time and, like, creates that himself, the two-point conversion to Mike Evans.
15:28Like, he did so much stuff out of structure in addition to, like, yeah, like, to be able to buy time like
15:34that against a rush like Seattle's and then make a throw like that under duress.
15:38And then to do it again on the two-point conversion in addition to standing in the pocket and ripping five or six really impressive throws against this defense.
15:46I thought Brock Purdy was awesome in this game, even with, you know, I'm sure he wants the interception to now Maya
15:52Pritchett back early in the third quarter. Not to say he was perfect, but he's a great call.
15:57Like, if you just watch how that call unfolds, it's exactly what you want if you're Seattle.
16:02It's an overload pressure to the offense's right side.
16:05He tries to come off of it quickly. And it's kind of like a palmsy coverage, Derek, where he probably thinks it's
16:11like some sort of quarters and then Pritchett comes off of it.
16:14And so when you think about the beats of that play as a defense, rush coverage tied together, it's exactly how you want that play to unfold.
16:22And so it's a bad result from the quarterback, but it's also just perfect defense on multiple different levels.
16:27Which even if you have a good day, the Seahawks are going to do that.
16:31Exactly. I love that call because it's it's for a couple of reasons.
16:35I love that call one when you're doing it.
16:37And I don't know if Pritchett was freestyling. I don't know if they would like taught it this way for this game,
16:43but he's usually when you play palms, it's like the cornerback is in squat technique.
16:47So he's like back a little bit more to the sideline.
16:51He's trying to eye the quarterback and stuff. But on that play, he's like backpedaling and looks like he's more playing like a deep third zone.
16:58And then he like snaps and turns and comes off of it.
17:01And so it never really looks like he's playing the squat corner to Purdy until he's driving on the ball.
17:07And so I think you had that little nugget, which I thought was interesting and cool.
17:11It's really more like a trap call. The other element of it, I'm sure you guys remember this in 2024 early on.
17:17And the Niners played the Vikings in like week three or something like that.
17:21I do. This was the first this was the first week that Brian Flores was like all of my palms pressures.
17:27I'm turning them up to 10 and Purdy had nothing for it.
17:30And so I thought that that was interesting that the Seahawks were like, we saw that game.
17:35We're going to play a little bit more of that stuff because that's Seahawks do some of that.
17:40But that's not really their bread and butter. But they were going to it a good number of times in this game.
17:46All this being said about how impressive a win it is for the Niners, the Seahawks very much had a chance to win this game.
17:53If we have a down the line shot of that Cooper Cup play, there is a chance that Seattle were sitting here
17:59talking about how the Seahawks miraculously were able to overcome.
18:02How many turnovers did they have? Four. Four turnovers and ultimately win this game.
18:06Four turnovers, one of which, like you said, was just a touchdown, like not even a short field, just a touchdown.
18:12So for them to be as close as they were, I'd be frustrated if I was a Seahawks fan because you shouldn't turn the ball over four times.
18:20And Sam Darnold, unfortunately, this is more of a trend than you would prefer.
18:23The turnover worthy plays and the negative plays. I think he threw picks on his first attempts of each half after throwing
18:30a pick on his first attempt of the Chargers game last week.
18:33That would trouble me. But to be as close as they were to pulling this out of the fire, despite everything that
18:39went wrong, I think that's weirdly encouraging, even though they need to clean it up.
18:43On defense, I think that's where I sit with it.
18:46Again, watching them get pushed around is kind of would be overstating it.
18:50But watch them getting pushed around situationally when the touchdown, the 11 yard McCaffrey touchdown is a perfect example.
18:55On that play, it's actually a really cool thought process from San Francisco.
18:58They're an 11 personnel. And so Seattle matches it with light people.
19:02And but Evans is so condensed on that play that he almost becomes a tight end the way that they're blocking it.
19:08And it turns into 11 yard touchdown. Yeah. The Seahawks, the brilliance with the Seahawks so often is that because they they
19:14can live in this light body world and still stop the run no matter how you're approaching them.
19:19And so to watch it happen that way, where the Niners, again, situationally with some personnel groupings, were able to run the ball consistently.
19:26That is something maybe just to file away that does feel a little bit different.
19:30But we've seen this team be so good on that front.
19:33I'm not really worried about it. The one thing I would come away from with this game in Seattle when we're considering
19:39what we thought about them potentially coming into the year and then what it's looked like so far and what it looked like in this game.
19:46I'm surprised that the offensive line looked as out of sorts as it did against the Niners front, because this was a
19:52group that had continuity coming into this season. They were bringing back all these guys, even with a new offensive coordinator.
19:58The thought was, is this going to be the best version we have seen from the Seahawks offensive line in years and
20:04years and years when you consider all the circumstances?
20:07And that just didn't happen today. Like there were a lot of plays where the Niners were really kind of chewing them up up front.
20:14That would be the thing if I were a Seahawks fan being like, OK, is that something to worry about long term?
20:20Overall, I don't think you watch this game and think the sky is falling or we should be really worried about a lot of stuff.
20:27But that was the one element of what I saw from the Seahawks in this game that might give me a little
20:33bit of pause about what the rest of the season would look like.
20:37You think that's unfair, Derek? I think there was a little bit of that.
20:41I will say Grayson Holton, the more the season goes on, is starting to play very well.
20:45He's the one who forces the fumble on the touchdown that they get.
20:49And he had a huge sack in this game.
20:51Yes. Keon White was good in this game. Keon White's been good.
20:55They got Michael Williams back in this game. And so there's still no Nick Bosa.
20:59But I do think the front is probably going to be better than it was in week one.
21:04And so I will at least give Seattle a little bit more time because I do think some of the discombobulation with
21:10the offense overall ends up hurting the offensive line.
21:13Like when your backs are constantly fumbling and your quarterback is throwing a pick on the first drive of the game and
21:19you can't get into the rhythm you want. I do think that hurts you a little bit.
21:23And honestly, to Dave's point about like Sam Darnold, just like all of these turnovers, they are definitely like that's just who he is.
21:30They won the Super Bowl with him leading the NFL in turnovers last year.
21:34And I would say even though we knew that that going in, it's pretty hard to repeat doing that.
21:39Like that's a really, really tough way to live if he's going to continue to do this.
21:44And I do feel like right now the problem is worse than it was last year.
21:48Or at least you were getting more of the positives to kind of offset it.
21:53And I do feel like the offense is a little bit more stop and start for various reasons.
21:58But I do think partly because of that right now.
22:00What do you think of the other reasons? I mean, I do think it's him just missing time.
22:05Like that's going to hurt. But I don't know, I guess I do think that what you pointed out specifically with Kubiak last year, his situational play calling.
22:13I don't think you feel as much of that with Brian Fleury.
22:17And that's not to say that he's like terrible at it.
22:20But Kubiak did really get them out of some jams last year in a way that I don't know if I always feel for them.
22:27It just feels like there are a bit fewer like easy completions, especially to the ancillary players who aren't JSN.
22:32I think that's fair. I mean, we really didn't see many of those today at all.
22:37I mean, I hear you, but I mean, did like JSN's target share last year was out of this world.
22:42It was off the charts. I mean, this like he's good enough that he can get away with it.
22:47But I feel like that's been the story for the Seahawks over the last couple of years.
22:52More than anything. And you can call this copium if you want to.
22:56I just think the Seahawks will look like a different team when their preferred running backs are available.
23:01Yeah, that's going to be a big part of this for sure.
23:04To not have either one. And obviously we knew they were going to be without Charbonnet.
23:09But to lose Jadarian Price for a significant period of time after knowing you weren't going to have Charbonnet for six weeks.
23:15You can just feel how toothless they are. And like Emmanuel Wilson's had some nice moments and he does what he can, but you're downgraded there.
23:22And then you're just you're not getting anything from George Helani at all to this point.
23:26And so if I was a Seahawks fan, I would be telling myself that will probably look like a much different offense
23:32when I mean both of those guys will be available.
23:35I would hope pretty soon. I know like Price has still got a few weeks on injured reserve.
23:40Charbonnet is ramping up. But if I was a Seahawks fan, I'd be like, all right, within the month, I have optimism that those guys will be available.
23:48And this will look a lot more than a lot better than it does right now.
23:52Derek, I'm really glad you mentioned Grayson Halton because I feel like he's a really important player for a bunch of different
23:59reasons beyond what he did in this game. The main concern I had about the Niners coming into this season was what
24:05is the interior of the defensive line going to look like?
24:08It's still a pretty thin group overall. I mean, they've just had injuries on top of the concerns we had about those young guys taking a step.
24:15But the fact that C.J. West, Alfred Collins, it hasn't mattered that those players that we thought were going to be foundational
24:21and central to just the Niners defensive plan this year, like last year into this year.
24:26Those guys have been a non-factor for injury reasons, and they're not a part of the equation.
24:31The fact that that hasn't mattered in part because Halton has played so well, it's huge.
24:35Like, it's a pivotal thing to have happened because there is a chance that those swings and misses so far in the
24:41interior of the defensive line would have been enough to torpedo your season.
24:45And him specifically, on top of, you know, whatever you're getting from Osa Digizua, but that wouldn't have been enough.
24:50And so Halton specifically kind of being able to keep this thing held together when it seemed like that entire position group,
24:56especially against the run, would have just been an absolute nightmare this year, has been really, really big for this team.
25:02If it was just Osa, it would not have been enough.
25:05And I actually do. It's funny, Halton being the one who has really come on for them, rather than, you know, Alfred
25:11Collins, who I know obviously he's missed some time.
25:14But Collins is more of a sit there, take some space sort of player.
25:18Halton's got a little bit more like juice, get in the backfield, which like that really is what compliments these linebackers the best.
25:24Like if you create some sort of window, Dre Greenlaw's going to find it.
25:28Fred Warren is going to find it. Even I think Jalen Duggar is going to find it if you give him a little bit of space.
25:35Like I just think these guys fit into the chaos incredibly well when you can create it.
25:40And so the fact that he's come on has been really, really huge for them.
25:44And then the other guy I want to shout out on defense, getting Malik Mustafa back in the lineup.
25:50That dude was on a war path today. He had multiple shots.
25:53I think at least two that I can remember both were on Rashid Shahid.
25:57Or no, the first one was on Cooper Cup.
25:59The second one was on Rashid Shahid just flying out of the roof to hit somebody at the sticks.
26:05And one of them was a big third down stop.
26:07Like so the fact that he's been back in the lineup and you can between like you can feel the attitude again in the defense.
26:14I think that to me is like what makes them feel like the Niners again.
26:19Jair Brown had a moment like that too, like late in the game.
26:22He had just I think it was like a Darnold check down to Helani on like third and six and Jair Brown
26:28just smacked the bejesus out of him. Like, yeah, that's a that is a wonderful point, Derek.
26:33They played with that like really inspiring physicality and aggressiveness that like the great Niners teams looked like.
26:38And the great point. The crazy thing is they lost Greenlaw.
26:41Like so much of that has been too much of that.
26:44So much of that has been Greenlaw over the years and they lost him pretty early in this game and still played
26:50that way, which also speaks to what a batshit game.
26:53And this was that Greenlaw got tossed for headbutting Ernest Jones.
26:56And that's item 15 on the list of things to talk about.
26:59Do we want to spend any more time talking about the end of the game?
27:04I mean, the JSN wouldn't even call it a drop.
27:06The JSN incompletion on the corner out that that falls incomplete and forces them into that fort down.
27:11Like if that either of those plays go slightly differently, we may be talking about the Seahawks winning this game.
27:17I'm I thought like JSN got smacked a play or two before that.
27:21So I wonder if like that had anything to do with it.
27:24Like I he's I think that this was just sometimes the ball doesn't bounce your way at the end.
27:29Like, yes, listen, there is no part of my being that's going to put any of this on Jackson Smith and Jimbo considering with the game close.
27:37I hope even the most diehard Seahawks fans are like, ah, you're you're allowed a mulligan.
27:41Yes, correct. The touchdown he scored is an insane play.
27:44Like when you think about where he catches that ball and where Fred Warner specifically is in relation to him when he catches that ball.
27:51Just a ridiculous player. I think Derek's point, though, this is the last thing we have to say about this game about
27:57getting the ancillary pieces more involved that that would be the other part of if you're trying to build a case for
28:03why the Seattle offense would just be a better unit and more consistent unit this year than they were last year.
28:09The offensive line continuity was a big part of that.
28:12But the other part of it was, oh, man, another year of A.J.
28:15Barner, Elijah Arroyo in year two, a full offseason of Rashid Shaheed.
28:19Like we're going to get these guys way more involved in the offense than we did.
28:23And so far, it just hasn't really felt like that.
28:26It's felt like the same helping we got of JSN last year.
28:29And it's a long season. You again, you have a new coordinator trying to incorporate some of this stuff.
28:35But those two elements, the offensive line continuity and those ancillary pass catchers being a bigger factor for this team, that hasn't really happened up to this point.
28:42All right. Let's talk about some of the other performances that really jumped out today.
28:46It is time for You Have My Attention. Gentlemen, now you have my attention.
28:50The Minnesota Vikings are now 5-0. They are one of two 5-0 teams in the NFL after knocking off the Saints 23-13.
28:57The Vikings at 5-0. And your offense showing a little bit more life today than it has in previous weeks.
29:02You guys officially have our attention. This is our question on the preview show is, can the offense show enough to make
29:08you want to take this team a little more seriously?
29:11And what is your answer to that question? My answer is, beggars can't be choosers.
29:15I said on Friday, show me something. Okay. Okay.
29:18I will say this, though. I will say this.
29:20Take the morsels. I think it is worth saying, this was a far bigger beatdown than the score suggests.
29:25This was a... Yeah. 100%. This was a dominant performance by the Minnesota Vikings.
29:29They lost 17 expected points on two snaps in this game.
29:32I mean, and that's part of it. I get it.
29:35But they lost the ball on the plus 7 and on the plus 12.
29:39Bare minimum, those are going to be field goals.
29:42At least one, you think, has a chance to become a touchdown.
29:45And one of them becomes the Saints' only touchdown of the day.
29:48And so without those, even if only one of those things happens, you're talking like 30 to 13 or like 26 to 7 or something.
29:55And I think this looks a little more impressive.
29:58I thought the Vikings ran the ball really well.
30:00And most importantly, you know what? All right. I am being diplomatic.
30:04If Kyler Murray makes decisions as well most of the time as he did in this game, I think the Vikings will be pretty good.
30:10Like, I was pretty impressed with Kyler Murray's like down-to-down decision making and making the plays that were there for him to make.
30:17Certainly not spectacular. But like, we said it all offseason.
30:20If Kyler Murray's just fine, this will probably be a pretty good team.
30:23And I think I believe that. And I think he showed us glimpses of that in this game.
30:28And I don't even think just decision making, actually.
30:31I mean, I think you're right on the decision making.
30:34I think his first 11 passes, 12 passes, he completed all of them.
30:37And some of that was check downs and stuff.
30:40But he did make some really impressive plays going where he needed to at the ball.
30:44But I do think the other part of it, for me, that I kind of got excited about was you saw Kyler Murray, the athlete again.
30:51It was the playmaking. The playmaking is what I would get excited about.
30:55He had seven scrambles in this game for 54 yards and three first downs, which is like double what he had in
31:01the previous two starts that he had made combined.
31:04And then the last thing, even one of those first downs that are one of those scrambles that he did not run for a first down.
31:11It was when they were at about midfield and he turned what if it was an incompletion, what could have been a
31:1761 yard field goal into a makeable 55 yard field goal, which they did make.
31:21And like you, you're going to need those little bits of him squeezing out points like that for what is, I think
31:27an offense that can be nice, but it's probably going to still be imperfect.
31:31And so the fact that you've got him having those floor raising plays again is like, all right, if he can do
31:37that and Jefferson can make three insane catches. I'm glad you said that.
31:41The next part I was going to say is he's also able and willing to just put the ball in Justin Jefferson's
31:47vicinity, which you cannot take for granted after the last year or so of Vikings football.
31:51Absolutely not. It just, I think I come away from this game just with questions about how it's all going to fit
31:58together in the long run, because I'm with you, Derek.
32:00I think the most encouraging part of what Kyler gave you in this game was the playmaking.
32:05It was the, what he was doing as a scrambler, but also just what he was doing as a play extender and an improviser.
32:12I mean, the first, the completion he had to Jefferson for 19 yards in the first quarter, that's a play where Jefferson
32:18snaps off the crosser on a scramble drill and it's a chunk gain.
32:22And so that type of stuff is going to happen if he's extending plays.
32:25But some of the stuff in structure still isn't really there.
32:28And when we've seen the Vikings at their best, right?
32:31Sam Darnold did a little bit off schedule, but this was a, we're, this guy is going to stand in the pocket.
32:37He's going to throw the ball where we're, we want him to throw the ball and we're going to get some explosives off of it.
32:44He's going to make some mistakes in the long run, but it's a lot of stuff happening within the structure of the
32:50offense combined with what we are in defense. That equation kind of changes a little bit.
32:55If Kyler Murray is going to play like this, I think what will make me feel good about the overall formula in
33:01the long run, Derek, is if you're combining the creation plays, the willingness to give Justin Jefferson three or four chances a game, which he's going to make.
33:09Like the thing that I want to kind of create some steadiness for the offense to go along with that is what you find in the run game.
33:17And even if it hasn't been good so far, I think you're potentially seeing enough flashes from it.
33:22And especially when the offensive line gets healthy. Yeah.
33:24But the fact that Donovan Jackson and Derisaw didn't play in this, they didn't have the left side of their line, the left side of the line.
33:32And I think that what you've seen is that when they're running the ball downhill out of some of this two back
33:38stuff, I actually think that's when the run game looks the best.
33:41And so I still think they're finding their footing in that area.
33:44And if they can and then you combine it with some splash plays from the quarterback in 18, that to me might
33:51feel like enough combined with the defense to make this thing dangerous.
33:54I would go as far as to say I thought the running game was outright good in this game, especially because the Derisaw's out.
34:01Donovan Jackson's done for the year. Jordan Mason's still on IR as well.
34:04Like I think you're going to be limited in your explosiveness because Aaron Jones is your running back.
34:09And that's just it is what it is. But they got some decent gashes, but they finished with a 38 and a
34:15half percent rushing success rate against arguably the worst run defense in the NFL so far this year.
34:20Like it I don't know where I land with it.
34:23Again, I think there are enough moments to. Potentially give me some hope about what this thing looks like in the long
34:29run, but right now when I wouldn't say it's been good when Sanker returned that fumble and I mean they missed the
34:35PAT, so they should have been down, but it's tied.
34:38That was the other the other thing that kind of sparked my interest and got my attention was they went right back
34:44down the field and retook the lead like five or six plays.
34:48And a lot of that was the running game like Jones ripped off a 20 yard gain on that drive and then
34:54they got to the plus 10 and just bullied the shit out of the Saints for a touchdown.
34:59That's what I'm saying. There were flashes. They're like there were five or six runs in this game where it's just like,
35:05OK, that's the vision for what this thing can be.
35:08If you want to call it flashes, that's fine, but there were things to be encouraged about considering what they are working without right now.
35:15That Jones touchdown is a perfect example. They lost Hawkinson on the second snap of this game.
35:19That's right. By the way. So like a pretty Josh Oliver's already hurt.
35:23And so you're really depleted a tight end. A pretty depleted offense moved the ball well enough.
35:28Certainly not exciting, but encouraging at least that Jones touchdown is a perfect example.
35:31That's just like we're pulling a guard. We're running power.
35:34We're going down. We're getting downhill. You know, I guess it was.
35:38I guess it was a fullback on that play, but.
35:40Oh, no, it's a guard. Yeah, it's a guard.
35:43I was talking about the end zone angle. Yes.
35:45In the middle of the third quarter, they had like a really nice trap run.
35:50Yeah, I think if you're not going to be a team that can just like outright move people, you need to have
35:56a little bit of we're pulling guards and we're doing two back stuff and it's a little bit weird and all that stuff.
36:02And so I do think you saw some moments and I still think they're trying to work on how clean that that stuff is going to be.
36:10The Hawkinson thing is huge, though, because obviously having Jefferson back eases some of the pain.
36:14But he had been Kyler Murray's favorite target the previous two games like he Kyler Murray was throwing him the ball all over the middle of the field.
36:22And so the fact that obviously he misses some time is going to be tough.
36:26But I this game did make me more encouraged.
36:29I do still want to see it against a defense that is not been one of the five worst defenses in the NFL this year.
36:35But I think after last week where it was like, oh, they should beat the hell out of the Dolphins and they
36:42really didn't until like the fourth quarter. The fact that you actually made a bad defense look bad.
36:47That is some amount of encouraging. I'm not willing to crown the Vikings off this performance.
36:51But again, I asked the question, can you do anything?
36:54And if they win this game like 12 to 6, I'm just like, I don't care.
36:58Screw it. There's nothing you could do to make me feel better about this.
37:02I don't care what you're 30 in this game.
37:05They should have and they could have and it was enough to make me to make me encouraged and excited to see more.
37:11That trap run you're talking about, Derek, that was on the same drive as when they scored that touchdown on the power.
37:17I mean, that was on the same drive. We saw them stack a couple of those runs together.
37:22The other part that, again, I want to see it maybe against a slightly different defense, even if it's impressive in this
37:28game because you're down to starting offensive linemen. The Saints finished with a 28% pressure rate on a 36% blitz rate and had a 3.09 time to throw.
37:36And when the Vikings had a 3.09 time to throw, that shouldn't happen.
37:40That's hard to do. That shouldn't happen. And you felt that in this game.
37:44The pass pro for the Vikings was very good, even with two offensive linemen out.
37:48The play that sticks out to me that, like, is the perfect example of this.
37:52We're tied at 13. There's two minutes left in the third quarter.
37:55Kyra Murray hops around in the pocket for six and a half seconds on that play.
38:00That's not an exaggeration. That's the actual recorded time on NextGen.
38:03And he finds Jones for a 32-yard game. Like, that's great.
38:06It's good that you have a quarterback who can do stuff deep into the down.
38:10I want to see them be able to stack some of these performances together against teams that are not the New Orleans Saints.
38:16You could see the light bulb click on in his head where he danced enough and looked for a rushing lane for
38:23long enough that he suddenly realized, like, wait. We're, like, seven seconds into this play.
38:27Somebody's probably open. And he was like, all right, I guess I'll throw.
38:30And the guy was all by himself. Anything to say about the Vikings' defense in this game that we haven't really already said this season?
38:37Because to me it feels like more of the same.
38:40No, this is just when you're a young quarterback in the league, you're going to get baptized.
38:45And this is who does it. And I just, you could see by the end of the game, Tyler Shuck did not
38:51really want to participate against some of the blitz stuff.
38:54Which, like, yeah, you have a banged up offensive line.
38:56You're being blitzed at an unholy rate. Your guys cannot block any of it up.
39:01And so there was, like, the pick he throws at the end where they do, like, rush pretty heavy against him.
39:06It doesn't actually even get home. Like, they actually pick it up really well.
39:10And he just kind of, like, chucks up a go ball.
39:13What I think was supposed to be maybe a double move to Chris Olave.
39:17And, like, he's not under pressure. But I think he's just kind of under the assumption that, like, this is all we
39:23got against the blitz at this point. And the game is pretty much just over after that.
39:28And so I don't think it really affects how I change about Tyler Shuck long term.
39:33Or really changes what I think about the Minnesota Vikings' defense.
39:36But there is something kind of fun about watching, like, a young quarterback have to go through their first trial by fire of Brian Flores.
39:43The first play of the game. We talked about this, Derek, with, I can't remember after which game it was on the hangover.
39:49Just leaning into the idea of how much the Vikings dictate how the game is played on that side of the ball.
39:55Like, they're always the ones dictating how the game is played when they're on defense.
39:59The opening play of the game. Cashman comes untouched through the B gap.
40:03Shuck has to dump it down to check it down to Kamara.
40:06And Van Ginkle drops him for a five-yard loss.
40:09It's the first play of the game. And that's just how a lot of the possessions look against them.
40:14They're also doing some funky-ass shit on the back end of some of these plays.
40:18They had a seven-man pressure where they were playing, like, it kind of looked like one side of a cover three to the right side.
40:25It wasn't cover zero. Like, it wasn't man, even though it was a seven-man pressure.
40:29Like, their ability to do some of that stuff where they're, in theory, vacating so many voids you should be able to throw the ball in.
40:37But no one seems to be able to find them.
40:39And then when you go back and actually watch either the dots or the all-22, you want it to be a mistake the quarterback is making.
40:47Where he's like, man, this guy's wide open. Like, how can you not find this?
40:51But so often you have droppers in the exact zones you should be, or the exact situations, the exact areas you should be able to access.
40:58Like, what they're doing right now in some of these pressures and just how dialed in they seem to be, taking away
41:04the exact routes they have to, given what the pressure should open up, is crazy.
41:08Like, it just, he has been on an absolute heater for the last five games.
41:13It's remarkable. Well, and he, I think Mark of a great coach, knows his own tendencies.
41:17So the first third down of this game, what's the whole thing with Brian Flores?
41:21They're going to bring pressure. It's going to be some weird zone drop, all this stuff.
41:26Nope, they play man-free and Tyler Shuck has no idea what's going on.
41:29And he, like, I think he ends up dirtying the ball.
41:32And so, like, knowing your own tendencies of, like, immediately throwing the quarterback off rhythm of, like, oh, we kind of prepped for this thing all week.
41:40And immediately they're giving me something different. Like, you just, you get them unsettled immediately.
41:44Absolutely. The only, obviously, like, guys like Wink Martindale have been, like, crazy with the Blitz stuff.
41:49But in my mind, the only thing that really feels as insane and loose as Brian Flores is, like, Pete Clemson, Brent Venables.
41:55Where it just, like, they're doing stuff that is not holy.
41:58It is not in the Bible. And they're still getting away with it.
42:02And that's what, to do it at the NFL level is absurd.
42:05I was going to say, that's a little easier when you've got, like.
42:09When you've got Isaiah Simmons in the college and, like, all these players.
42:12But future NFL players on your team going against, you know, a middling Pitt team.
42:16Sorry to Pitt fans. But, yeah, I think it's a different animal doing it in the NFL.
42:21He's making these offenses look like middling ACC teams, which is pretty impressive.
42:25Let's get to our next one here. The Detroit Lions put up 45 points in a win against the Cardinals.
42:30They go three and out on their first three possessions and then just go on a touchdown spree after that.
42:36I know it's the Cardinals defense. It's been struggling.
42:38But watching the Lions offense and watching them hit this gear is just such a reminder of what they're capable of when they're humming.
42:45And so the Lions put up 45 against the Cardinals and really just putting their foot on their throat in, like, the final three quarters of this game.
42:53You have our attention. Even if it's fake because the Cardinals aren't very good, it was still refreshing to see the Lions win a game this way.
43:00They haven't they have not played a stress free game yet.
43:03Like, they've either lost or been in a nail biter all the way down to the wire.
43:08And so, like, the Lions are at a point where you can't take for granted the opportunity to kick the shit out of somebody.
43:15So, it doesn't drastically change my opinion of the Lions, but it still means something for them to put in a performance
43:21like this, especially heading into their bye week. They're off in week six.
43:25So, to get a week off coming off a performance like this, I'm sure is a relief for a lot of people in that building.
43:32It doesn't change my opinion of them. To me, it was more a reminder of, and this is such a stupid thing
43:38to say, but how many good players the Lions have?
43:40Like, this type of performance in this type of game is just one of those.
43:45And the guy that really makes me say that is like, oh yeah, Sam Laporta's really good.
43:49And they have a lot of these guys. And the other part of it was watching the way that the offensive line played just overall.
43:56I thought that you had some really nice moments from the guards in this game.
44:01You had some absolute highlight reel plays from Penny Sewell in this game.
44:04And you talk about the bye week. Cade Mays is going to be back.
44:08And so, there was a moment earlier in the season when the offensive line was banged up.
44:13When Miller and I think Mahogany missed that game.
44:15I want to say it was against Buffalo. That sounds right.
44:18And you're looking at the overall just state of the offense in Detroit and being like, man, is this going to feel different than it did last year?
44:26When they were really struggling up front and they were really inconsistent.
44:29And then you watch a game like today. The way the offensive line played.
44:33The fact that you're about to get your starting center back.
44:36All those skill position guys have their moments over the course of this thing.
44:40And I think it just, again, was a reminder to me that when they're at full strength, which they're going to be here in a second.
44:48The offensive line, the offense overall really does have a special gear that it can reach.
44:52The offensive line kicked ass in this game. They really did.
44:55Like Mahogany, you mentioned, I thought he had just a really good game.
44:59Like there were, between him and Sewell and obviously a couple of the tight ends in the run game as well.
45:04There were a couple of runs specifically to the left side where it's just, you could run a truck through there.
45:10And I just thought, that's what the Detroit Lions offense should feel like.
45:14And so the fact that they were able to tap into a little bit of that against like, the Cardinals defense isn't good.
45:20But like, some of those players up front are decent.
45:23Like, Roy Lopez can do some stuff too. Zayvon Collins can set the edge.
45:27Like, they don't have nothing up there. And so, I thought that that was impressive.
45:31And I think too, in terms of how many points they scored, they did not do anything for the first 20 minutes of this game.
45:38They went three and out of their first three drives.
45:41Yes, it was a lot of like, we're in gun.
45:44We do not have answers for their blitz stuff.
45:46We don't know what we're doing. To watch what they did last week and then come out.
45:51So the first drive, they were under center. But their second and third drives, they come out in the gun on first
45:57and 10 on both of those drives. It's like, guys, why are you doing this to me?
46:02I couldn't believe it. It was all just weird.
46:04Like, they come out with that. They had a drive where Jared Goff gets strip sacked on a second down because Sam Laporta is blocking Baron Browning.
46:12Like, I'm not even saying that's like a schematic fault.
46:15Sometimes you got to let your tight ends block.
46:17But it was just like, that's probably not a situation you want to be in.
46:21And that stuff happens. But even on that play, it's a gun play action.
46:25And with the action, he drifts into Sam Laporta.
46:28And so it's just everything about that play. It's like, let's throw the shotgun shit in the garbage can.
46:33Like there, you have a way to play offense where you can really assert yourself.
46:37And so to watch them kind of drift away from that.
46:40And I thought the drive starters beyond those first three drives were some of the best calls of the entire game.
46:46We're throwing screens. We're just, we're getting things going.
46:49Obviously, the one, the throwback screen to Gibbs is the craziest version of that.
46:52But I thought that the drive starters after those first three drives and really jumpstarted it every single time, essentially, they touched the ball.
46:59And so, I mean, it's, you had a play action screen to Gibbs for 23 yards when they were up 14-7.
47:05The throwback screen to Gibbs jumpstart's a two-minute drive for them to kick the 24-7 field goal.
47:10Like, it just felt like Petsing and the offense overall really settled in over the course of the game and really allowed
47:16them to tap into what we saw for most of it.
47:19Their drive starters got better. And then the fourth down calls.
47:22They had, they had three of them. They had multiple fourth down touchdowns.
47:26They had, I think actually both of them were to JMO, but like one, or one of them was to Jameson on the, on like the back line.
47:33And then they had a really sweet fourth and one conversion in the middle of the second, which this actually is when they got jumpstarted.
47:40This was when the offense finally came alive, but they ran this little, like they had Brock Wright motion from left to right into the flat.
47:47And so it's fourth and one. Everyone's like, we got to run with the flat guy.
47:52But they have Sam Laporta already to the right.
47:54He runs this little like out and up route.
47:57And he is, nobody's even in his vicinity. And he scores a touchdown and it did kind of feel like a deep
48:03breath moment for the Lions where they were like, okay, we survived a fourth down and we scored a touchdown.
48:09We can kind of cruise back into this game the way that they want to.
48:13And then from there on, they were the offense that looks like the best in the NFL again.
48:18You're talking about the, the touchdown Laporta scored on fourth down.
48:21Yes. Yeah. To me, to me, the biggest play is the fourth and three on the previous drive, because if they don't
48:27get that fourth and three on the previous drive, they're already down seven, nothing.
48:31And then you're handing the back, handing the ball back to the Cardinals.
48:34And so getting that fourth and three and on that fourth and three, again, talking about the game that Laporta had the
48:41fourth and one touchdown is leaking out wide open down the right sideline.
48:44That fourth and three, he's running a big boy in breaker route with Denzel Burke on him.
48:49And Jared gets all the way back to it on the backside.
48:52Like that is a big time play from those two guys.
48:55If they don't get that and there's a chance you give the ball back to Arizona, they go up 14, nothing after that drive.
49:02The entire game potentially changes in that moment. He got smoked on that one.
49:06That to me still felt like they were still like kind of holding onto something and still clinching.
49:11The touchdown to me felt like we can breathe a little bit.
49:14But no, you're right. Like if they, if they don't get that and Arizona scores there, like Arizona is a good enough
49:20offense that if they're ahead of the curve, they can get the game to run away from you.
49:25Obviously, that's not what happened, but they're talented enough to do that.
49:29That's arguably my bigger takeaway from this game. And I'll say it again.
49:32We don't have to overreact to beating the Cardinals, but the Lions have played a lot of stressful games and the Lions
49:38defense has looked abysmal every week of the season up until now.
49:42I just looked this up while we were talking weeks one to four.
49:45They lead the lead, led the league in opponents points per drive.
49:49They were giving up more than three points per drive, which is worse than the Cowboys.
49:53It's worse than the Saints. I mean, even their wins, they have not been able to count on the defense for anything.
49:59So while all of that was getting going on the offensive side of the ball to force five consecutive three and outs,
50:05and we don't have to overreact to what it means because going into this game, Arizona was going three and out 40% of the time.
50:12Like top six number in the league. Like this is not a good team.
50:16But you take what you can get when you've had the first month of the season.
50:21I mean, Kelvin Shepard was under fire. Oh, it was a tough one.
50:24That was a press conference was incredible. That was a we're trying to keep our heads above water sort of press conference.
50:30Absolutely. And so to come out here and like show you anything against anyone, I thought Roger McCreary in the first half
50:37of this game was pretty damn good. Like clearly the Cardinals made it a point to target the shit out of him.
50:43And for the most part, he gave way better than he got.
50:46DJ Reed had some nice moments too. And for where this secondary has been to this point in the season and knowing
50:52that Brian Branch is expected back on the other side of the bye week.
50:56I was watching that back and kind of like stroking my chin like, OK, well, if the offense looks like this again,
51:02we've said this about so many teams, but we only need the defense to be fine to have a shot to do something here.
51:09And they looked fine in this game. Two more things.
51:12Talking about that fourth and one touchdown, Derek, the play before that.
51:15Laporta gets it to fourth and one. They spit him the ball on the flat.
51:19He makes a guy miss. And that's the only reason he was even fourth and one.
51:24He would have gotten tackled essentially at the line of scrimmage if he didn't make.
51:28I think it was Williams. It was wide at Williams.
51:31He like shook in space to get to the fourth and one.
51:34And then the other play, just we mentioned it very quickly, the touchdown throw to Jamison Williams, like the golf is sliding
51:40just enough to his left to buy time to make that throw.
51:43And I mean, it's a beautiful throw and catch like that's by again, buying just enough time in the pocket to get that thing off.
51:50And so a really nice performance from the Lions.
51:53I know it's against the Cardinals, but when you want to see their offense, be able to hit that sort of gear.
51:59And they did today. Speaking of offenses that hit a gear today, the Patriots scored 45 points in a blowout win over
52:05a Las Vegas Raiders team that have been playing pretty darn good football over the first month of the season.
52:11Drake May, 26 to 34, 374, 11 yards per attempt, four touchdowns, 0.74 EPA per drop back.
52:15You officially have our attention. What was your biggest, both of y'all, what was your biggest impression watching this back?
52:21Like when it wasn't in the middle of the early window?
52:24Pass protection. Pass protection. And he believes he's the best player on the field again.
52:28Like those two things to me. Do you think that has anything to do with the fact that he was able to just stand there for six seconds?
52:36Most of the snaps in this game. That was my biggest take.
52:39Yes, but I saw that last week from him to the confidence, I mean.
52:43And so the fact that he had the confidence again where he was like, I can make all these throws.
52:49Because even like some of those throws were still very difficult, even if he obviously did have the time.
52:54I was really impressed with the offensive line, though.
52:57Not even just pass protection wise, but like the pass protection was very good.
53:00They were also picking stuff up, like not even just guys winning one on one, but like their plan was better than I think it had been.
53:08The plan was excellent. They were getting four hands on cross beat every single play.
53:12Like the pass protection plan was really, really good in this game for the Patriots.
53:16And I think what helped them a little bit there, the run game like kind of worked.
53:21It's not the best thing in the world, but over the first two or three weeks of the season, it was what
53:27it was last year, where it was a hindrance to the offense.
53:30And the quarterback had to make them right and make a bunch of plays.
53:34And last year they were able to do that against some, you know, so-so defenses.
53:39But they ran into some good ones against the playoffs and early this season.
53:42And that wasn't the case. This is a Raiders run defense that like has been solid.
53:47They've had their moments. They've got some decent players.
53:49We talked about it coming into this week and the fact that, you know, they didn't run all over them.
53:55They didn't kill them, but they made it such that this did not have to be a, hey, Drake may drop back
54:0150 times when they know you're going to pass for 40 of them sort of game.
54:05And the fact that they didn't have to live that way and then were able to be as dominant as they were in pass protection.
54:12I mean, I'm assuming it's more than five pressures, but like I feel like I could count on my hand the amount
54:19of times that he was unclean in this game.
54:21The only, so he was pressured like a reasonable amount when you actually look at the numbers, but that was in part
54:27just because those are based on it forever. Exactly.
54:30He's holding it forever. That's based on tracking stats.
54:32And so when you actually look at it, it reminded me a little bit of the game we talked about with, I
54:38can't remember which Bills game it was. It might've been last week.
54:42Patriots Bills? No. Yes. Maybe. Yes. Yeah. So it's similar where we talked about the Bills and their pass rush in that
54:48game where they had a decent amount of pressures over the course of the game when you look at next gen, but
54:54the time to pressure was just extremely low. And so that's what happened in this game as well.
54:59All of the players for the Patriots or for the Raiders in this game that had of the, there were four players
55:05that had at least three pressures in this game for, for Las Vegas.
55:09Three of them had a time to pressure of at least 3.3 seconds.
55:12So a lot of those pressures were coming really deep into the down because they're holding out of the ball.
55:18They're hunting big plays on the day. The Patriots gave up six quick pressures per next gen.
55:23A lot of those were to blitzers where guys are just coming clean a little bit.
55:27But when you look at the actual four man rush, them getting four hands on Crosby pretty much the entire game and making everyone else beat them.
55:34The Raiders couldn't do that. It's worth mentioning Tonka Hemingway came out pretty early and he'd been having a nice season, but
55:41their overall, the four man rush for the Raiders had absolutely no shot in this game.
55:45This was Drake's lowest pressure rate of the season.
55:48And I mean, all those numbers are accurate, but just watching this game back, Derek said it perfectly.
55:53Like the number of times the Raiders were able to move Drake off his spot and make him make a quick or frantic decision.
55:59It didn't happen very often. And I thought like a picture perfect snapshot of how this game went was Kyle Williams had
56:05the touchdown and then he had the second huge explosive when the game was already a blowout.
56:10The Raiders sent six and they pulled one guy out.
56:13So it was a five man blitz with like a sim pressure.
56:16And Hunter Henry was in the backfield with the with the back as well.
56:20So like they had a loaded backfield and it didn't nothing happened.
56:23Like they picked it up so effortlessly that Drake didn't even have to like look down at the rush.
56:29He didn't have to move his feet. They sent like it just it was the most ineffective blitz I've ever seen.
56:35And on that play, Henry chips Max Crosby. That's his role on that play from that split black split back.
56:40And it felt like that happened all the time.
56:43And the other thing I wanted to know besides Drake looking awesome and looking like the MVP runner up again, Caleb Lomu
56:49came in at halftime because Will Campbell got banged up and looked pretty damn good.
56:53Not that this is the most fierce pass rush in the NFL.
56:56And I think he went against Crosby at least once or twice, but like for the most part was not dealing with Max Crosby a lot.
57:04But man, for a guy where the book on Caleb Lomu as a first round pick was that he was going to need a lot of seasoning.
57:11He stepped in and I thought played really, really well.
57:14I think PFF charted him with one pressure allowed on 29 snaps.
57:17We talked about it coming into the season. Who would also be the edge presence for this team?
57:22Like where would they find pass rush considering the construction of the edge group?
57:26Elijah Ponder has done some good stuff for them.
57:29He had two sacks today. He had two quick pressures today.
57:32He had four pressures overall. Milton Williams had three quick pressures on the day.
57:35So that was one of the questions. Like edge rusher was a big question mark for this team.
57:40And Ponder has given them more than we probably would have expected.
57:44I'm thinking about featuring him on my That Rock video.
57:47You should. You should. He was he was everywhere.
57:49He's a good one, man. He's he I'm trying to figure out who he reminds me of.
57:54Like it's it's a cross position composition. But there's something about like Deion Dawkins has like a very weird body type.
58:00But like at his peak was like an insane athlete.
58:02And it just like kind of made it work.
58:05Elisha Ponder doesn't look like the most like chiseled insane athlete.
58:08But he just like he is a really good athlete who just makes shit work all the time.
58:13And like he's just the fact that he can be a rusher for them.
58:17He can crush the pocket. He's good in run defense.
58:20He's their best dropper as far as their edge guys go.
58:23Like he really is like a little bit of like a skeleton key sort of player for their front.
58:28He's awesome. It's not surprising that he doesn't look like an all-time athlete.
58:32The guy was undrafted last year. I mean, it's yeah for him to come along and be as central to their defense
58:38as he's been is a really nice story. The other thing I'd mentioned just schematically.
58:42I thought that the Patriots were doing some interesting stuff in this game.
58:46Like when you look at the drive for them to even go up 7-0.
58:49You get a DPI, which they got several of those in this game.
58:53There were several long pass interference penalties that jump started drives.
58:56But that to me just is a sign of an offense that's on the front foot the entire day.
59:01But on that drive, the 16-yard completion to Dobbs to kind of get things going.
59:06They have like a little rail motion. They get in a dagger off of that.
59:10They had multiple plays in this game, Derek, where they're either emptying out the back with like one of those like just
59:16drain motions from the backfield to get into empty or the back is offset to potentially incite like an empty check from the defense.
59:23Like they clearly thought they were seeing something with where the back was and getting him out of the backfield or offsetting
59:29him to kind of play with whatever the defense was expecting.
59:32They saw something on tape that forced that pushed them to do that.
59:35And so just some of the little buttons that they were pressing overall.
59:39The screen called a Hunter Henry is like a beautifully timed play and execution.
59:43Like I thought Josh McDaniels, but he's gotten some shit this year for what he's done.
59:47And I thought today was maybe the best game he has had so far this season.
59:52It finally looks like an offense that knows it doesn't have A.J.
59:55Brown, which it did not feel like that once he left for the first couple of weeks.
60:00It was a little bit of static. It was a little bit of like our guys will just win.
60:05And that's just not what they have right now.
60:08And I do think that some of the motion stuff was really impressive.
60:11You bring up so glad you bring up the play where they run that like rail motion where the player going out
60:17to the flat runs the wheel and they run dagger in front of it.
60:21They ran that again later in the game, early in the third quarter.
60:25And then he hits Eli Raritan on a unbelievably beautiful pass, like right over Quay Walker running.
60:30Yeah, that like that is as good of coverage as you can ask for from Quay Walker like that.
60:35You made the window so tight. It is what it is.
60:38And the quarterback was just better. And so then like knowing that they can get back to that play, knowing who's going to be able to cover him.
60:46Like I just I do think that their construction right now, it feels less static than it had before.
60:51Or my biggest gripe in weeks one and two was like their pass protection plan was so bad and it looked cleaner in this game.
60:58Like it the offense feels like it has answers again.
61:01And the quarterback is seeming like he believes in it again.
61:04And so if they're going to operate it this way, this feels like a team that has a top 10 unit on both sides of the ball.
61:11Truthfully. All right. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I wasn't going to do this.
61:15Oh, no. I saw where you were glancing. What do you have?
61:18We can save it. We can see. No, no.
61:21There's an empty spot at the table. You want to put them back that quickly?
61:25I don't. We probably not worth it. Do you want to use your hand raise here, Derek, in week five to put the Patriots back on?
61:32You don't have to. I'm not I'm not pressuring you.
61:35We can wait and see. Only because it's week five.
61:38No. But this does to me feel like a team that is like worth it.
61:42They're on watch right now. If they do this for one or two more weeks, like, yeah, absolutely.
61:47OK, we don't have to do it now because there is an empty seat that we are not going to fill.
61:53With anyone else. Just spoiler alert, because I don't think anyone else deserves it right now.
61:57Their next three games are Jets, Bears and Dolphins.
62:00I think. All right. Well, we'll check. We'll check back in after a couple of weeks.
62:04We'll check in after that. We'll check back in after a couple of weeks for just just to be clear.
62:10We are going to leave the seat empty. I think we should leave the seat empty after taking the Cowboys off on Thursday.
62:16I was very impressed by the Patriots today. And I mean, winning 45-17 in the NFL is impressive, but like it's it's
62:22not enough for me to want to reverse course that quickly.
62:25All right. OK. All right. We can keep him off.
62:28But like, hey, I mean, manageable schedule coming up.
62:31I assume. AJ Brown will be back sooner rather than later.
62:34I mean, we're it's week six already and he got hurt in week one.
62:38So like he'll be back after that stretch. Yeah.
62:40So I will revisit it. I think trending in a very positive direction with the Patriots.
62:45I think where I'll land with it, I think they're table worthy.
62:48But the fact that we already took them off and we'd have to use one of our votes to put them back on, we can wait and see.
62:56Right. Like they should be punished a little bit for how those couple of weeks went.
63:00Last one here. The Giants commanders game had our attention because the league wouldn't let it not have our attention.
63:06We didn't have a choice. We're sitting there trying to watch the beginning of Niner.
63:10And I'm not trying to say that Giants commanders isn't worth watching.
63:13Right. It is worth watching. It's an exciting ending.
63:16We'll talk about it. I don't understand how in 2026 I have to watch the end of that game when I have NFL Sunday ticket.
63:23I just I don't understand it. Why? Like what is the possible rationale for that game having to be on my television
63:29when I should be able to watch everything at the same time?
63:32I truly don't get it. It's also the second time this season that has happened.
63:36I'm struggling to remember the other one. But in like week two or three, there was another overtime game that wouldn't end.
63:42And it got in the way of the late window kickoff.
63:45And I just yeah, it's not a commentary on the Giants and the commanders.
63:49I don't understand how when you pay. I would like to watch both of when you pay out the ass to have
63:55the ability to watch everything blacking out the start of the game of the week for anything.
64:00It could have been the best game of the year.
64:03And I'd still be pissed if I couldn't watch the first 10 minutes of a game that I paid for.
64:09The mechanics of it are frustrating on its own.
64:11I just don't understand the thought process behind it.
64:14If you're trying to make Seahawks Niners the national game, what what part of the audience want needs to see the end
64:20of Giants commanders before that game kicks off? Like who around America is like, oh, I must see the end of this
64:26game before I see the start of the next one.
64:29I just don't understand why that's how it works, period.
64:31Let alone how Sunday ticket works. After the decade the Giants have had, I feel like even Giants fans are like, hey,
64:37can I can I at least get like part of my team?
64:41Keep the game on in the local markets. That should be how it is.
64:45Nationally, I don't get it. No, that's not why we're talking about this.
64:48We're talking about this because we have to discuss the end of the Giants commanders game.
64:53Derek, you are the only person that was not in the room.
64:56Me and Dave rewatched the TV copy of it just to get every single beat of how the final couple plays went from your perspective.
65:03What did you see in the final minute or so of the Giants commanders game?
65:07So on one hand, at first I thought like nobody knew that they had a timeout.
65:12Like because it seems like I don't know. It just seemed like a very bizarre situation.
65:16It comes out later that like some of the players, I think Chris Paul was asking the locker room.
65:21They were like, no, we we knew like we talked about it.
65:25We didn't have a timeout. And so you even had Dan Quinn after the game talk about he was like, yeah, in
65:31that situation, we thought we were going to be able to throw the ball away if it doesn't go our way and we can move on.
65:38We can take the kick. And so to me, the more you watch it, it is very clear that like they called
65:44a boot, a boot pass with, by the way, on the play before Rashad White goes down with like 50 seconds left.
65:50So they choose to go slow. 50 seconds. 50 seconds.
65:53They choose to go slow. So this is not like they get down with 20 seconds and they got to go and they panic.
66:00They are choosing to go slow. So that part of it I thought was a little bit weird.
66:05And then they call this like little boot play action pass.
66:08Jaden doesn't really boot out all the way, does not want to kill the play immediately, which he should do if it's covered.
66:14He should just throw it away and we take the kick wherever it's going to be.
66:19And he instead like fiddles around and then tries to run.
66:22By the time he goes down, there's nine seconds left.
66:25And nobody else on the team is thinking that we have to run and kill this because we thought we were already
66:31killing it with the play that we had called.
66:33And so this to me, I mean, coaching, I guess, has to be better about making sure that everybody's on the same
66:39page, that you have to kill this no matter what.
66:42But to me, this is like the quarterback who's he's played a lot of games.
66:46He started like 100 games in his career going back to high school, college, NFL.
66:50I think that he should know better. And I'm a little bit baffled the game ended the way that it did.
66:56What do you think is more indefensible? If Dan Quinn allowed for the clock to run from 55 seconds to 14 seconds
67:02and in that entire time span of running clock did not make it clear to everyone what the game plan was over
67:08the next one to two snaps or that Jaden Daniels is a year three franchise quarterback in the NFL who won the
67:15Heisman in college and has been starting since he was like 14 and like didn't have a beat on the situation just in general.
67:21Like it's a combination because when I went back and rewatched it, the most baffling thing to me is to snap that
67:27Dan Quinn's rationale of why they even ran the play was that we were trying to get more yards.
67:33Fine. It's you. I don't want to be fair is logical because the conditions were a mess.
67:37The conditions are a mess. You don't want to kick a longer field goal than you have to.
67:42We see teams do that all the time. But if that's the thought process, getting it down to 12 seconds, it's not
67:49worth running the play at 12 seconds because at that point, you're almost necessitating that the quarterback dirt it in order for
67:55you to get the field goal off. Because if he completes that ball inbounds to anybody, the game is over.
68:00So why even run the play like you that?
68:03That has to happen. If you're going to run that play, run any sort of play, it can't happen with 12 seconds
68:09left on the play clock that that just can't be how that entire situation unfolds, because now there's almost nothing good that
68:15can happen by snapping the ball with 12 seconds left.
68:18They could have slow played the shit out of this entire situation and still gotten to the line for another play with like 25 plus seconds.
68:25And then again, like get up and clock it or whatever you need to do.
68:29This could have been so easy if you didn't move at a literal snail's pace.
68:33And like to play it that way without a clear understanding of what was going to come next is I don't know.
68:39I don't have a firm reaction to it because it's so crazy.
68:43I don't mean to absolve Jaden Daniels of blame.
68:45He absolutely deserves blame for how that final play was handled.
68:48I just don't understand how that's the way you handle like Derek said.
68:52It's the ball that play. The Rashad right run ends with 50 seconds left.
68:56How you handle that 38 seconds the way that you did.
68:59I just truly don't get it like what the thought is and how you're approaching it that way.
69:04It was kind of shocking to see them go that slow or usually you would go fast immediately and then just like
69:10run a play with 35 seconds on the play clock.
69:13And then you get to choose how the game ends that way.
69:16And so I do agree with that. Like them managing the clock the way that they did was really bizarre.
69:22And then the final play going the way that it did I think was on the quarterback.
69:26So it really is both like them putting him in that position I think is like kind of doesn't really make any sense.
69:33But that was that was one of the worst failings of the entire season like that.
69:37That was truly bizarre. I enjoyed Mike Tomlin's commentary at halftime of the Sunday night game where he said something along the
69:43lines of we're never going to know what actually happened because if it comes out it'll be so bad for the people
69:50involved that you just you got to bury that thing deep where Ashburn wherever their facility is you just gotta you got
69:56to dig a real deep hole out behind the facility for that secret.
69:59All right before we move on let's take our first quick break.
70:03Well Derek said it's one of the worst plays of the entire season.
70:06We've got plenty of other bad shit from week five to get to.
70:10It's why it's part of the reason we didn't wedge that play into what the so let's get to those right now
70:16here's some of the tougher moments outcomes everything from week five.
70:19It's time for what the what the the Jacksonville Jaguars beat the Philadelphia Eagles 19 to 17 today in London.
70:25There is just so much to say about this game.
70:27We'll go from one instance of clock mismanagement to the next one but it wasn't just that it wasn't just the way
70:33the Jags Eagles ended that puts them here. Everything about the Jaguars Eagles game from London today.
70:38What the f***? We can talk about all of it.
70:41This is one of the most striking instances of players overcoming coaching that I can remember the fact that the Jacksonville Jaguars
70:47players were able to win this game was unbelievable to me.
70:50It's all Parker Washington. It's all Parker. It's just Trevor like losing his mind and in the midst of losing his mind
70:56because play calls are coming in false starts like play calls are coming in late false starts are happening.
71:02They can't get lined up and he's just like in the midst of this making insane.
71:06He's like Parker Washington will bail me out and guess what?
71:09He was right. Parker Washington will bail you out and he makes an incredible play.
71:13And then obviously, you know, it goes down to they get the situation where the Eagles think they win the game with
71:19the field goal and then the Jags return the kick to like the 40 ish.
71:24And then that gives them an incredible chance to make a field goal, which like that is another instance of players like
71:30the fact that I think the Jaguars coaching kind of put them in a position where the game should have been lost like that.
71:36And then they return the kick and win it anyway.
71:39This I was actually I was watching this game with my girlfriend in the morning because it's the only game on and
71:45I was like they deserve to lose this game because they should have to think about what they've done.
71:51They should have to consider what has happened here.
71:53And now they will still do that. Obviously, NFL teams do that.
71:56But the fact that they get away with it with a win.
72:00I was like that is insane that they get away with that to have to pull it out of the fire the
72:06way that they did against an Eagles team where they're decimated with injuries on offense like absolutely decimated Jonathan Grenard doesn't play in this game.
72:13J. Links on gets hurt in the middle of this game like the idea that that your players needed to overcome the
72:19situation that you put them in for you to win this game against an Eagles team that walked in limping the way that they did.
72:26It's they deserve to learn. They deserve to lose this game.
72:29And I really hope they do spend a decent amount of time reflecting on what this thing looked like.
72:34Derek said something that triggered a thought in my brain.
72:37Like Trevor Lawrence is the most happy-go-lucky like sunshine from Remember the Titans.
72:41Just like not bothered by anything guy. You talking about the delay game?
72:44Have you ever seen him that pissed off? I've never seen him.
72:48He does not do that. He does not do that.
72:50I've never seen him like that. That stretch with the delays of game is just there.
72:55I had two thoughts in that moment. One, indefensible.
72:57The idea that you can get down to the one-yard line and then have that drive go the way that it did is indefensible.
73:04The other one, I was talking to Dave about this as soon as I got into the office today.
73:09The Jags need to cut this shit out with all the London games.
73:13You, if you, when you're a 6-11 also ran in the AFC South and you're like some NFL novelty, fine, play them all over there.
73:20I don't give a shit. When you're a team that's trying to win the Super Bowl, the idea that you're going to
73:26give away a home game and play two London games in a row and allow the Eagles to play essentially a home
73:32game in London when you're trying to be one of the best teams in the league.
73:37Somebody needs to have a conversation with somebody. Like there is no way the cultivation of the British fan base is worth
73:43handing away this home game to go play the Eagles.
73:45You know who they play in London next week?
73:48Houston. So they're giving up a home division game to stay over there and do this.
73:52I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it.
73:55Do they have to? They hand away two home games to do this?
73:59I looked at their schedule. They play at Houston in December.
74:02So like the Houston home game is later in the year.
74:05So this is the Jacksonville home game in that series and they're playing it in London.
74:09I think they're playing that one at Wembley. So it's a different stadium if that matters to you at all.
74:15Not really. My other cut the shit with the Jaguars, by the way, I think at least part of their like, because
74:21they really only have these issues now when they get into the red zone or get inside the 10.
74:26And the thing is, they're a good like passing red zone team when the ball is outside of the 10 yard line.
74:32Like I think that they can throw into those windows really well.
74:36When they get inside the five and passing is harder generally for any offense, especially if you don't have it just a
74:42Mike Evans, we can throw it up to him and he'll win.
74:45You need to be able to run the ball a little bit better.
74:49All of their stuff where they try to get inside the five is weird shit.
74:53They go into Wildcat. They bring out Jumbo. They get into funky formations.
74:57And so I think especially in this game where I think that they were scrambling a little bit and getting into like
75:03thirds and fourth downs with some of that stuff.
75:05They were just like kind of scrambling with what they really wanted to call and what they really wanted to do in some of those situations.
75:12And like you see it in the numbers like before today, they were nine of 11 scoring in the red zone.
75:18And I think most of those were touchdowns. They were over three on touchdowns in the red zone today.
75:24And they only scored once. It was it was just an all time, like really stupid performance for this coaching staff and team.
75:30The jet sweep to Tootin is an all timer.
75:33Dude, it's an all timer. And I'm not saying it's the wrong call.
75:36Like I think that stretching my wife, we all we all watch this game like wait after waking up and having coffee on the couch.
75:43And so our yes, of course. In a way they're not always having to explain why this game is so dumb.
75:49I'm trying to explain to her why it's not the dumbest thing in the world to like run a jet sweep on the goal line.
75:56The field shrinks vertically. So you have to stretch horizontally.
75:59Sometimes that stuff can work. But the details of that play to motion Chris Rodriguez out of the backfield.
76:04So now you're giving no threat of being able to run the ball downhill whatsoever.
76:08And you're asking Chris Rodriguez, a player who has never, I'm assuming in a game, ever blocked a player in space in
76:14a way you would ask a wide receiver to do it is having to block Zach Bond on that play in that moment.
76:21You're just asking that thing to get absolutely nuked.
76:23I just I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that was the choice.
76:27You know, it took my breath away when I watched that again is and if it works and you get a block
76:33on the edge, it looks fine and all as well.
76:36But that ball was snapped on the one and facial toot and took it at the six.
76:40Even it was an under it's an under center play.
76:43And yet it's designed so the back gets it at the six yard line on fourth and a foot.
76:48And I just I would I would prefer to not do it that way.
76:52And like they had a they ran the speed option like three plays before that.
76:57And I was going to mention that it was the same drive.
77:00It was that was sick, which one thing that struck me to watch in that one, though, it took more of an effort from tootin than the blocking.
77:08God, I. I so the other thing I wanted to mention, too, and I remember noticing this in the moment before the
77:14freak out at the end of the game, they screwed shit up with the clock in the in the before halftime drive
77:20to like they almost incurred to delay of game penalties on that drive.
77:23And I remember thinking we're cutting it kind of loose.
77:26We're cutting it kind of close here, fellas. Like, what the hell is going on?
77:30And like when Aaron Rodgers is doing that shit in his prime and he's running the clock all the way down on purpose, it's different.
77:37Like you could tell how manic this was like you could tell how Trevor was like doing this.
77:42He's like, hurry up, get into your motion so I can snap this.
77:46And it was incessant. I feel like it happened seven times in this game and it burned them like three times.
77:52Let's not let the Eagles escape this without a little bit of scorn.
77:55I do think their performance overall was admirable. Like the fact that they were in this game, the fact that they almost
78:02won this game, the half that Jalen Carter had, there are not that many defensive players in the NFL that are capable of having that sort of half.
78:09He was insane. Just blowing up plays all over the place.
78:12I mean, what he did to those guards in both the run and pass game over the first half was ridiculous.
78:18The Eagles had a chance to win this game.
78:21They're the two big mistakes that are worth digging into.
78:24One, Makai Lemon going out of bounds on that completion.
78:26If that doesn't happen, the game is probably over.
78:29You kick that field goal with zero seconds left, but you allow the Jacks to save one of those timeouts.
78:34And then we've had a lot of end of game kicking situations recently.
78:38I don't think this was the most egregious mistake.
78:41I think going out of bounds was, but this is different than the Ravens situation where we want the Ravens Cowboys game
78:47where you want Dallas to put the ball and play there because the Ravens had a timeout left.
78:52And so you're trying to tick down as much time as you possibly can.
78:56The Jags did not have a timeout left. And so really the only big play you can make in the middle of
79:02the field while stopping the clock is the kickoff return.
79:04And so by not kicking that thing out of the back of the end zone, I absolutely think you gave the Jags
79:11the best chance to win that game. And so multiple situational mistakes from the Eagles with the game on the line.
79:16And Nick Sirianni, to his credit, took the blame for that.
79:19But that's one of those things where like, well, this is literally your job.
79:23These are the things that you are in charge of because you're not in charge of anything else.
79:28Derek, what irks you more? I think that I think the kickoff decision irks me more than Lemon going out of bounds, even though you're right.
79:36Like that could have allowed you to just kick and walk off.
79:39But that's one of those things where like I something has all the one thing you cannot do to the offense, like to the huddle.
79:46But like as that drive even starts or as that sequence starts, like the one thing no one can do is go out of bounds.
79:53It's the one thing that no one can do.
79:55And like, I guess because he's a rookie, you give him a little bit more grace for stuff like that.
80:01But I don't know, man, you can't go out of bounds.
80:04Like, you know, in a situation, you are not allowed to do that.
80:08I do think the kicking one is frustrating, though, because like you had time to think about it.
80:13Like sometimes with these stuff that happens in the moment, like you're just going to kind of like your brain's going to turn off for a moment.
80:20You're just not going to do the right thing, especially if you're in a rookie first time in that situation.
80:26When you're going into the kickoff and you have time to sit there and think after the score happens, OK, we have
80:32a minute to breathe, all that stuff. And then you still kind of land where you did.
80:37That to me is. I don't I don't know about worse, but I think it's like harder.
80:41It's harder to excuse because you had as much time to think about it as you did.
80:46The last thing that's worth mentioning from this game, just in terms of long term outlook, Anton Harrison left this game on a cart.
80:53And it doesn't I assume it doesn't look good.
80:55I didn't hear much about the injury postgame, but to leave on a cart after a non contact injury.
81:00I was going to say the nature of the injury didn't make me feel good.
81:05And one of the things we talked about with the Jags over the first month, why would this thing feel different?
81:10Why did they feel more potent? Why were they how did they answer some of the questions we had about them coming into the season?
81:17Their play up front and in part him taking the step that he was taking was part of that.
81:23And so this is a step in the wrong direction this entire game.
81:26What you saw from the guards, what you saw from Ezra Cleveland specifically, and then to potentially lose Harrison for an extended
81:32amount of time is a really tough one. I do want to say one more time, like and they bungled it at
81:39the end and they were not particularly good. But such a great example of like even even the shittiest teams in the
81:45NFL are loaded with professional football players and coaches who are really good at scheming shit up for a game.
81:50The Eagles were eight and a half point underdogs in this game.
81:54And like, you know, the it makes sense that the narrative with Lane Johnson retiring and the Juergens trade, it's easy to
82:00just be like, well, they're just going to get wiped off the field.
82:03And I thought Jacksonville would win this game comfortably.
82:06But. These are really high level athletes and coaches putting this shit together.
82:09And I even though the end of the game was just kind of a disaster, I thought it was really admirable the
82:16way the Eagles bowed up in this game. I totally agree.
82:19I mean, the defense, the difference, the defense was a little bit disappointing over the first month in part because the pass rush just hadn't been very good.
82:26And so for them to turn up the heat pass rush rise the way that they did Carter specifically, but also, I
82:33mean, Nolan Smith had a couple of moments. Bond had a pressure on a like a designed like big stunt on a five man pressure.
82:39Like they they affected the game up front more than they have recently.
82:43And I think that's the formula for them to stay relevant over the course of the rest of the year.
82:49If the defense can play like that and the front can play like that and you can just try to piece together the offense.
82:55I think that's how they stay annoying and honestly makes it all the more tragic that they had taken a game from
83:01a team that was playing like a Super Bowl contender and let it slip.
83:05I just thought it wasn't the best game from the Jags.
83:08The first half from the Jags defense. I just thought it wasn't the best cold game.
83:13Like both of the big Cooper touchdown and then the big Wicks completion on those touchdown drives.
83:18They're playing one robber on both of those plays against this team.
83:21Why? Why? Like, why are you ever giving this quarterback man coverage right now?
83:25Why? There's no reason. You're taking away the middle of the field while giving them one on ones like that's exactly what they want.
83:31And so the Jags have been an awesome man coverage team this season.
83:35But to do and then even later in the game, they weren't they when they played man, it wasn't Robert.
83:41And so either if you're going to play man pressure, if you're not going to play man, at least try to have
83:47those droppers somewhere else rather than have a guy drop the safety dropping down from the middle of the field.
83:52It didn't make sense to me. And so those are the two biggest pass plays the Eagles had in the first half were against those looks.
84:00And Campanile typically is awesome and like really, really good.
84:02But that first half was just kind of uncharacteristically off when it came to having your finger on the pulse of what that offense is trying to do.
84:10Yeah. What are you trying to rob against this quarterback?
84:13Exactly. He's not going to throw that area of the field anyway.
84:16Who cares? This isn't Jimmy, right? Like we're not that is not the coverage you should be playing against Jalen Hurst.
84:22And then they did pay for it a couple of different times.
84:25All right. Let's keep rolling here. I don't need a preamble here.
84:29Chargers Broncos. What the f***? Everybody involved. I don't have that much to say about this game.
84:34Other than the fact that it was gross. Just unbelievably bad.
84:37Like unbelievably bad. Going back and rewatching it, I regret the fact that I did.
84:41We had to talk about it because it was so ugly.
84:44And because the Broncos just continue to be this ugly.
84:47But I'm not sure as I spin back through games on a Sunday night, there has been a more disheartening review all
84:53season than going back and watching this Broncos-Chargers game from today.
84:56What did you say? I think I agree. When Robert was rewatching some clips from this game, I would just hear periodic like grumbles of like, oh, Jesus.
85:04It was so bad. And that could be for either team.
85:07Oh, no. Yeah. It could be for either team.
85:09The one that broke me, there were a couple.
85:12I mean, we can just say this right now.
85:14Justin Herbert's brain is just cooked. Oh, completely. I mean, just cooked.
85:17I mean, when you watch. Which, and it happened again over the course of the game because I thought in the first half, he was like fine.
85:25Like he made some pretty decent throws. He was fine under pressure.
85:28Obviously, some other guys are making drops and stuff like that.
85:31By the second half, and especially like the final interception he throws where they're in this like mugged up pressure.
85:37Brandon Jones is a safety on the line of scrimmage as the end man.
85:41And it's like there's never a thought in Justin Herbert's mind that Brandon Jones could just drop off and play coverage.
85:47And he just like throws the interception right at him.
85:49I mean, he's like undercutting that route. And he's like never thinks that he could drop.
85:54I'm like, what do you mean? Everyone in the NFL is doing these seven man fronts where they drop out.
85:59Like there's a huge chance that he could drop out there.
86:03Derek, you said on the hangover about the Chargers-Seahawks game, his picks in that game were indefensible.
86:07And this is worse than that. Yeah, it's just as bad.
86:10It's just as bad. I mean, and that, so when they fail the quarterback sneak in the fourth quarter, after that is
86:16when the wheels just completely fall off. He has the sack fumble when the game is tied.
86:21The game is tied when that sack fumble happens.
86:24Zach Allen wins immediately against the amount of, the sheer amount of f*** ups by this team when they're pulling a player is just mind boggling.
86:31And so they're trying to run like a dash protection with the guard pulling.
86:35Zach Allen crosses the face of Jake Slaughter immediately, torpedoes the play.
86:38And instead of just taking the sack, while he's falling down, Herbert tries to get rid of it, gives the ball back
86:44to the Broncos and essentially gives them the game.
86:47And then right before the interception, he does it again.
86:50He does it again. And so you just feel his brain at this point is like putting like a fried egg in a skillet.
86:56Like you just feel it cooking over the course of the game.
87:00And that's exactly what happened again in this thing.
87:02It's so bad. He's broken. He makes the bad plays worse now.
87:05Which like that is always the sign of like, oh, this guy is not seeing it feeling.
87:10Because that's what that's what when CJ Stroud was playing really poorly at the end of last year.
87:15It was not that he was necessarily creating his own bad plays.
87:18It was that as soon as something went wrong, he was turning that up to a 10.
87:23And that is, I think, what you're feeling a lot right now from Justin Herbert.
87:27He again, the fourth quarter was so, so bad from him.
87:30But when you watch the Chargers offense over this entire game, it's just unwatchable.
87:34And I guess we can understand how that happens.
87:37You're playing with zero of your day one starting offensive linemen at this point.
87:41I guess Cole Strange. You have one. You have one of the guys you were trying to go into the season with as a starter.
87:48Who has been terrible anyway. And you say, Cole Strange who everybody was terrified that he was starting.
87:53You have no NFL receivers or offensive linemen, essentially, at this stage.
87:56And so you can understand how that happens, even if agreed.
87:59The quarterback is making bad plays worse, even if the circumstances are that bad.
88:03The Chargers had 11 run stuffs in this game, okay?
88:06That is tied for the second most in a game in the past three seasons.
88:10The Steelers had one with 13 in 2024. The Chargers had 11 of them in this game.
88:15Their offense is just non-functional at this point. And the quarterback, again, as he cooks over the course of the game every
88:21single week, seemingly, is compounding it later in the games.
88:24But the Broncos don't have an excuse. The Broncos have NFL players still.
88:27They have a lot of NFL players. And this game was funny, too, because I thought, I mean, I don't know if
88:33I thought this, but, you know, Sean Payton is taking over the play calling in.
88:37In theory, it's supposed to look a little bit different.
88:40Maybe they'll call this stuff that Bo really likes.
88:43All this stuff. All the good plays. Yeah, all the good plays.
88:46There were still so many moments where they were terrified to let him play quarterback.
88:50Like, there was a third and seven around midfield.
88:53I think it was a third and seven. Yeah, on the first drive.
88:56And it's there on the 50-yard line. It's third and seven.
88:59And they run like a little stick return concept where he runs like the pivot on the stick route.
89:05And they get like four yards. And it's like, OK, if we plan on going for it on fourth and three or whatever, that's a perfectly acceptable call.
89:12And they just don't do that. And they decide to punt.
89:16And I'm like, well, then why are we calling a play that's not going to get us that when you know he's
89:22just going to throw the four-yard route anyway? You had that.
89:25They had, I think, on what, the two-yard line at the very end of the game.
89:29They decide to just kick a field goal instead of trying to, the game was tied.
89:34It was 20-20. And they could go up, I think, 23-20 instead of 27-20 or at least try to.
89:39But I'm like, I don't know, man. I would want to try to put the game away there.
89:44I know you believe that the other guy's spiraling.
89:46But like, just a lot of moments where they were, it didn't look, the offense didn't look different or better is what I would say.
89:53The third and seven play is one of them, is one of the ones I wrote down as I was slowly losing
90:00my mind as I was rewatching this. The play that broke me, the third and nine give up handoff to Betty.
90:05You are an NFL team. To hand the ball off on third and nine, I don't care what the dynamics of the game are.
90:12I don't care how bad the other team is playing.
90:15It's not third and 20. It was third and nine.
90:18And they handed the ball off. They are treating anything like above third and five as a, ah, we'll get him next time.
90:24And like, how do you run an offense like that?
90:27Even if you're a great offense, you're going to run into five, third and five pluses a game.
90:32That's just the way the sport goes. Like they are calling an offense.
90:35Like they don't believe they can make any plays that are difficult.
90:39It's insane to me. My favorite sequence was the Marvin Mims 26 yard punt return that set them up.
90:44I think they were on the plus 27. Bo Nix throws incomplete, checks down to Dobbins on second down, throws incomplete, and
90:50then Will Lutz misses a 42 yard field goal.
90:53I remember this too, because I wasn't like only watching this game, obviously, right?
90:57And so I see them get the ball like on the 27 yard line.
91:00And then I'm like kind of watching other games.
91:03I'm just like, you know, kind of mindlessly being like, oh, incomplete, whatever.
91:07And then I come to the end of the drive and the field goal teams out there, I'm like, how the hell
91:13are they settling for three when you get the ball already inside the 30?
91:17Like it's especially to like, think about how many other teams, especially like this week, the Niners, every short field, they get instant touchdown.
91:23And it's just like so many other teams can do this.
91:26And they just like could not figure it out.
91:29When that happened, we were, Robert and I were watching the two main games, the late games together.
91:34And like Mims got daylight and it looked like he had a chance to score and it fizzled out.
91:39And when he got tackled, I was just like, you know, I don't think they're going to get points out of this.
91:45I didn't expect to be correct, but. Cowboys were at the table and it was annoying me.
91:50Oh, I thought you were taking the Broncos off the table.
91:53It's why I looked at it to remind myself that the Broncos are there.
91:57This might be, we should just cut the table down to eight teams now.
92:01Honestly. We don't, we shouldn't wait till mid season.
92:03We don't, there aren't 10 deserving teams to be there.
92:06There's not enough already. The Broncos are three and two, by the way, after today, three, the three and two Denver Broncos.
92:12Let's see what Thursday night against Seattle looks like.
92:15Let's get to our last one here. Oh, good God.
92:17The Chicago bears get absolutely worked by the green Bay Packers today as road favorites with their backup quarterback.
92:23Everything about that performance from the bears. And we'll touch on all of it.
92:27What the was that? You know what? I'm just going to say it.
92:30It's nothing personal against the bears. I'll tell you what the that was.
92:34That's what it's supposed to look like when you play a backup quarterback on the road in the NFL.
92:39And for the briefest of moments, maybe I allowed myself to believe that Ben Johnson really was that magical that they could
92:45just keep winning games with backup quarterbacks. And before the first quarter was even over, I was like, okay, you know what?
92:51It's nice to know that there's a limit. And even Ben Johnson can get the shit kicked out of him when he doesn't have his quarterback.
92:59And guess what? But it looks a lot worse when you get the shit kicked out of you after you've talked shit incessantly for the last year.
93:06This is the downside of approaching it this way.
93:09And you think the Packers didn't care? Like, listen to Zaire Franklin talk about Luther Burden after that game in the locker room.
93:15Justifiably so. When you handle this the way that the Bears have handled it consistently over the last year, and this is
93:21what happens to you, you deserve every single bit of it.
93:24I just, I thought that this was the team the Packers are supposed to be, man.
93:29Like, they looked, obviously there are some moments of, like, disappointed by the Bears in this game.
93:33Like, I thought Dennis Allen kind of got undressed in this game by Matt LaFleur.
93:38But like, that was why the first four weeks of the season were so frustrating.
93:42It's like, we know that Matt LaFleur can do this.
93:45We know that Jordan Love can make those throws down the field.
93:48And so the fact that they really tapped into all that stuff in this game and they were able to access that,
93:54I was just like, it, I kind of felt a little bit alive getting to watch Jordan Love play quarterback like that again.
94:00I will say the part that, like, surprised me a little bit from the Packers was, I thought their front on defense looked good.
94:07And I thought their plan on defense in a lot of ways was really, really impressive.
94:12Like, I thought you saw moments from Danny Deny Sutton.
94:14I thought some of the other defensive tackles played pretty well in this game.
94:18And then I just thought some of the coverage stuff that they were doing or stuff to, like, keep Bayesian in the pocket.
94:25Like, there was a sequence inside the two minute.
94:27Bears had the ball in the 15 and they have, like, a nub tight end to the left-hand side.
94:32And Brandon Cisse is the corner over there. And the tight end stays in to protect.
94:37And Cisse just immediately goes. Bayesian tries to step up against other pressure and Cisse is just there to kill it.
94:43And it's a sack. And so them just, like, having little adjustments like that.
94:47And then there was another play where one of, it wasn't an interception, but Bayesian tried to throw an interception late in
94:53the third, where Evan Williams is, like, running with emotion.
94:55And then they just play cover three. And Bayesian's like, well, I think I'm getting manned.
95:00I'm just going to throw to my tight end over the middle.
95:03And he tries very hard to throw one of his interceptions of the day.
95:07And so I just thought their plan was really impressive.
95:10And then the front was, that was the best game I think that they've played all season.
95:15That play you're talking about where Cisse adds on, that to me was one of the most frustrating.
95:20Like, Burden is wide open. He's wide open. And that ball just doesn't get thrown.
95:24And I think this is partially a, I think you're right.
95:27I think this is partially a, the Bears getting just outman, like, outgunned coaching-wise, I think on both sides of the ball this entire game.
95:34I think you felt the backup quarterback, though. On top of the, them being in bad situations the entire day, there are
95:40four or five moments, that being one of them, where, like, that's on the quarterback.
95:44Some of the decisions are on the quarterback. That lack of a decision is on the quarterback.
95:49And I got, I'm not trying to explain away or absolve blame for the coaching staff.
95:53They deserve a lot of it. We can dig into that.
95:56But you really felt the fact that the backup quarterback was playing in this game.
96:01That doesn't impact the way the defense played. That's, that's, that's the part of this.
96:05Like, people are, anyone who's trying to explain this away and be like, oh, the backup quarterback was in, what would you expect?
96:11That doesn't explain what happened to the Bears defense in this game and what the Packers offense did and how they approached this thing.
96:18That's what I want to focus on. Because I'm sorry, I just, I don't care that much about what Tyson Bajan did.
96:24He wasn't ready for the moment. I'm not terribly surprised by that, but this was, this was one of the most disrespectful game plans.
96:31So disrespectful. That I've seen. And you know, Matt LaFleur has, he's done everything in his power to downplay the rivalry and
96:37he certainly doesn't play into it as much as Ben Johnson does publicly.
96:40I feel like he let the game plan do the talking for him.
96:44He sure did. In this instance. So I just want to share a few stats that I really loved.
96:49Derek, I told Robert this one already, but I'll share it with you.
96:53Jordan Love threw 31 passes on Sunday. 18 of them traveled 10 air yards or less.
96:57So 18 of 31 attempts he's throwing to the sticks or shorter.
97:01Every other attempt went 20 plus yards downfield. He did not throw an intermediate ball in this game.
97:06And of course he was six of eight for what?
97:08Like 250 air yards, which shout out to Alex, our friend from the discord.
97:12I saw you post this and I double checked it myself.
97:15Jordan Love had more air yards or more yards on throws of 20 plus air yards, 258 than the Chicago bears had yards period in this game.
97:23Like the, the absolute nut. Don't give a shit.
97:25Chucking it downfield was kind of awe inspiring. Like you just don't see it in an NFL game very often where the Packers were like, okay, watch this.
97:33Like the sequence, I think it was just before halftime where they just threw three bombs to the end zone.
97:39And like one of them got broken up. One of them got waved off by illegal hands to the face.
97:44And then they threw a third one to Watson for a touchdown.
97:48The, the absolute audacity to just three times in a row be like, I bet you won't do it this time and be right about it.
97:55Just awe inspiring levels of pettiness by the Packers.
97:57I loved it. The bear, the defense has had no answers.
98:00Like just absolutely no answers. The, the, what's really jumped out to me.
98:04And we had, he had one really good. I'm, I'm, this may be, we're an hour and 40 minutes into this.
98:10The half that Dennis Allen had against Matt LaFleur in the second half of that playoff game was really good.
98:15Other than that, some of the bears worst defensive moments over the last two years have come against this team.
98:21And it's in large part because their ability to snuff out pressures from the bears defense.
98:25No other team does this to them. A couple of those huge moments, the first Watson touchdown.
98:30And then I think the 31 yard completion of Watson right before on that drive, you're talking about where it ends with
98:36the touchdown to the third and 22. The bears run like a double corner cat where both corners are coming off and they're playing cover two behind it.
98:44It's hilarious. How not close those pressures are to getting home.
98:47Like it's hilarious. How bad those things look in real time.
98:50And that reminds me of the cover zero they ran last year that Watson scored a touchdown on at Lambeau.
98:56Like they, the, the Packers ability to just punk the blitzes that this team sends with their past protection plan has been
99:02a consistent theme over the last two years. And I think the, both of those plays today where they sent both the
99:08corners and it didn't matter might be the most egregious examples that we've seen.
99:12It's that. Catch on like a deep corner out in this game.
99:15And then what Christian Watson can do down the field.
99:18Like it's the perfect, they had the perfect team to do the thing that they wanted to do against this Bears team.
99:24The Packers performance running the ball wasn't particularly noteworthy, but I would like to shout out Marshawn Lloyd dump trucking Jalen Johnson at the goal line.
99:31There's been a lot of dump trucking Jalen Johnson going on recently.
99:35Quite a lot. I, I have to assume. And it's, it's what it's week five against a backup quarterback.
99:40I doubt many Packers fans give a shit. I bet this was very satisfying for them.
99:44It should be very satisfying to them. It absolutely should be.
99:48And I think it's a reminder that two weeks ago when they played Atlanta, it felt like this thing might be slipping away from them.
99:54And I think that to me is one of the biggest takeaways from this game is that the Bears front isn't good.
100:01We know that. But the fact that this offensive line is capable of playing well enough to give their quarterback and these receivers a chance.
100:08If that's going to be the case for most of the season, this team is dangerous enough.
100:12I don't know how dangerous they are, but it's a, to me, it's a binary thing.
100:17Is the offensive line going to be good enough to give the quarterback a chance?
100:21If the answer to that is yes, then this team can do this.
100:25If the, like, if the offensive line can continue to look somewhat serviceable and Micah Parsons is just looming out there as
100:31a presence that's going to be injected into, by the way, a defense that is playing better than you.
100:36Again, like, just leave the defense for dead after the Atlanta game.
100:39Well, I mean, leave everything about that team for dead after the Atlanta game.
100:43And I don't know if Jalen Daniels' first career start and Tyson Bajan is enough to get you really excited.
100:49But again, you will eventually be adding one of the best defenders in the league back into this thing at some point.
100:55And I remember saying in August, I won't be surprised if I feel a hell of a lot better about the Packers
101:01in November than I do in September and October.
101:03I don't know if that's true yet, but it's certainly in the back of my mind.
101:08I just thought that the passing game would have a real, really high gear to it this year.
101:13Like, I thought the passing game overall would have an incredibly high ceiling based on the quality of the quarterback, the quality
101:19of the pass catchers, how explosive I thought they might be.
101:22And the concern was that the offensive line wouldn't give us a chance to see that.
101:27And it's not a good group by any stretch.
101:29And I think they will have their issues over the course of the year.
101:33But again, if they're going to clear enough of a bar to make this thing functional, I think even if it doesn't
101:39look like this again, I think we're going to see enough games from Jordan Love and from this group of receivers that
101:45the Packers are going to be a relevant team.
101:48And it just didn't feel like that two weeks ago.
101:50It felt like this thing was kind of slipping through their fingers.
101:54All right, before we move on, we're going to take one more quick break.
101:58All right, before we get out of here, let's talk about what made us feel romantic about football in week five.
102:04I mean, this thing was a thing of beauty.
102:06I kind of felt this way about Parker Washington, too, so far this year, where you have a guy that really flashes
102:12and has some moments, is kind of a role player, rotational piece.
102:15And it's like, man, I think that guy's got something to him.
102:19And then something changes, either his role changes, how much he's featured changes.
102:22And you're like, oh, yeah, that guy's just awesome.
102:25That's how I feel about Jalen Warren. And the way that Jalen Warren has played so far this season and the way that Jalen Warren played today.
102:32So Jalen Warren has 15 carries for 101 yards today.
102:35He has six catches for 87. A lot of that coming on two big plays.
102:39But he's the leading rusher for the Steelers in this game.
102:42He's the leading receiver for the Steelers in this game.
102:45And if you go into some of the numbers from this year, I was just curious about it.
102:50So I was digging into it. Per NextGen, 57.4% of Jalen Warren's runs have gone over expectations this year.
102:56He's the only player in the league above 50%.
102:58He's second in the league in force miss tackle rate behind Kenneth Walker.
103:0228.6% of his runs have gone for first downs.
103:04That is behind Jameer Gibbs, James Cook, the Robinsons in Atlanta, Kyron Williams and Kenneth Walker.
103:09Only Bajon and Kevin and Kenneth Walker have more yards after contact per rush than Jalen Warren.
103:13He's just been one of the best running backs in the league this year per touch, full stop.
103:18And very quickly has transformed into like the identity of the Pittsburgh Steelers offense justifiably.
103:23And for a guy who I think you could get excited about some of the flashes you'd seen over the last couple
103:29years, but was signed an extension this year for like $5 million a year.
103:33Like this was not guaranteed. We were wondering what it was going to look like between him and Rico Dowdle coming into the season.
103:39And so Jalen Warren developing into this type of player over the first five weeks of the year.
103:44That makes me feel romantic about football. Even as somebody who's admired Jalen Warren's game for a while, it's still very much like a sort of a hipster.
103:52Like, oh, like you're not talking enough about Jalen Warren.
103:55He's an outright star at this point. Like if he wasn't already a game like today puts him on the radar in a way that is undeniable.
104:02And I appreciate what a I appreciate Aaron Rodgers saying like, I don't know why more people don't talk about this guy, which I completely agree.
104:10And the other thing I love, he called Jalen Warren, which he was just incredibly praised him effusively after this went against the Colts, as you might expect.
104:17But he said he's slippery, which I think is a great way to describe his play style.
104:22But the thing I love, he is an incredibly slippery player.
104:25And it's easy to associate that word with a guy who's 5'8", 204.
104:29That's his draft list, his listed draft measurements, which is probably why he went undrafted.
104:33Undrafted. He's so much more physical than 5'8", 204 would imply.
104:36He runs through tackles. That's what makes him slippery.
104:38It's his physicality while being like an outlier size wise is it's really, really cool to watch.
104:43He's the only player in the offense who is reliable and explosive.
104:47Like DK Metcalf can kind of be explosive at times, but he's not reliable in how he's doing that.
104:52Pat Friermuth and some of the other guys are like kind of reliable, but they're not really explosive.
104:57He gives them both. And also the other thing that was like really how Jalen Warren got on the field early on as an undrafted guy.
105:04He's like one of the best backs in the league at pass protection.
105:08And like you that's where you see a lot of the physicality come through.
105:12And so the fact that like it's cool that he like got on the field early on largely because of that and
105:18how now has become their feature back and has like Dave said.
105:21Aaron Rodgers spent like his entire postgame interview like all four minutes just being like I think Jalen I think the world of Jalen Warren.
105:28We should get him the ball more. He's the best teammate I've ever played with.
105:32He's so slippery like we got to do everything we can to get 30 the ball like it was.
105:37He when Aaron Rodgers likes you and what your talent brings to the offense.
105:41You will continue to get the ball more so good sign for him for the following 12 games of the season.
105:47I'll say that heinous tackling by the Colts on both of his touchdowns.
105:51Of course, but well the the problem for them the cut he makes on the touchdown run again.
105:56That's one of those examples where because of the cut he makes he's leaving.
106:00He's the linebacker has just less of a chance on that play.
106:03He runs through an arm tackle because of the cut he makes and that's the explosiveness that you see my favorite play of the day from him.
106:11He is a it was a nine yard run from the gun and the jump cut he makes in the backfield.
106:16He essentially jumps like three gaps over like he's just such a fun player to watch right now.
106:21And so it's an offense that I think we were wondering how exciting and enjoyable they would be this season.
106:27And Jalen Warren has made the Steelers offense worth watching to me.
106:30All right. That is all we've got from week five in the NFL quick reminder.
106:34Look at Katie's just on it. She knows I'm going back to the hangover games at the end.
106:39She's flashing the graphic on the screen because she knows I won't remember them an hour and 45 minutes into the show.
106:46That's good producing right there. Ravens Falcons Bengals Dolphins Titans Texans including some Marvin Harrison Jr.
106:50trade talk. That will be what we hit tomorrow.
106:53That's all for tonight. Sincerely appreciate you guys listening.
106:55We'll talk to you very soon. Thanks for tuning in.
106:58Make sure to hit that subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode.
107:02If you enjoyed what you heard, please like comment and leave a rating.
107:06We'll see you next time.

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