0:00Big show for you here today. It's a show I like doing in August, but it is a difficult one.
0:06How do each of the 12 and actually this year, 13 consensus first round range players not work out in fantasy football this year?
0:13Hayden Winks joins me to break down all 13 of those players and try to paint the negative end of the range of outcomes.
0:20Spoiler alert, it's a lot harder for some of the players than it is for others.
0:24Then we wrap it up with the fantasy hotline, taking some of your questions on the buzziest players.
0:29All that and more coming up on today's show.
0:32Let's get into it. Matt, fresh off his show.
0:35So a guy that's doing a lot of talking about ball today.
0:38It is Hayden Winks. Hayden, what's going on, man?
0:41How you doing? Doing great. Feels like you do shows back to back and you check the timeline and you're just like
0:47seeing who got hurt, who's ahead of who. What is John Shipley tweeted out?
0:51Everything's ramping up now. It really is. Yeah. I locked in for about 40 minutes of a John Shipley podcast this morning.
0:57Thanks to you for putting that one out there.
1:00Yeah. Tilted the Jalen Waddle injury, the brace, whatever.
1:03So yeah. What an absolute treat. It's August, man.
1:05It's that time of year. So we got a big show.
1:08Like I said, ahead of us, we are doing a little mailbag at the end of the show where we're answering your
1:15guys's most pressing question about some of these training camp hype bunnies.
1:18But before we get to that, the subject of today's show is I think it's a fun topic to talk about, even though it is kind of depressing.
1:26It's how each of the 12 and actually 13.
1:29We're going to cheat on the last one. How the 13 first round consensus picks could not work out this year, could
1:35bust, could could ruin your fantasy football season. And Hayden, I like doing the show because I mean, sometimes it's just good
1:42to talk about like how things might not work out for some of these guys that we assume everything is going to be great.
1:49I mean, sometimes you, you, you know, you get roasted on the internet in the middle of the season.
1:54Like one of the hosts of this show did about a thing they said about Pukun Okuo when they're, when his quarterback
2:00was like the immortal chamber last year. Well, you know, what do you want to do so we can get ourselves in
2:07trouble in this episode, but I do think it's a good exercise for the people out there.
2:12Yeah. Some of these players, it's almost impossible to come up with the negative case for them.
2:17And then some of them actually have some, some reasonable ones.
2:20It's definitely helpful with, with the floor here. My goal on this is to not say, well, they could get hurt.
2:26You know, it's, it's every other reason except for they might get hurt.
2:29Uh, cause obviously that's the, the number one. Well, that's going to make it tough for the first three picks here.
2:36Cause it is really difficult to figure out how these guys might not work out, but let's give it a shot anyways.
2:42So the consensus number one overall pick in Yahoo ADP right now is Jameer Gibbs lions running back.
2:47Uh, the only big time running back in the last, you know, a couple of days who hasn't signed a monster extension,
2:53but his is certainly on his way. Hayden, how can Jameer Gibbs bust and not work out in fantasy football this year?
3:00Man, an impossible question here. I'll give it a shot.
3:03Um, they have a first round, right tackle, a new center, and then their guards are pretty inexperienced.
3:08And then you have Penny Sewell switching sides. I think on the whole, it's probably just as good.
3:13If not, there's more upside than last year's offensive line, which was not the best unit out there.
3:18So I think it would be some combination of that.
3:21Goff is feeling a little bit more panicked because of that new coordinator, but I actually liked the new coordinator that they're bringing in here.
3:28Um, so I think it's like some type of combination between that.
3:32I think then the other thing, which I would say is very unlikely would be if like Pacheco does play some version
3:38of the David Montgomery role, I would find all that really, really unlikely.
3:42So I feel, um, about as good as, uh, of him, uh, as the first overall player in half PPR.
3:48And I really struggled here. Yeah, this one is difficult.
3:51Um, the Pacheco factor is like at least worth considering because like when I ran through my initial projections, my initial rankings,
3:57I just had Pacheco completely almost like not a non-factor, but you know, pretty, pretty, pretty close to a non-factor.
4:03Like somebody I'm not even considering drafting as, is like a running back insurance policy in fantasy right, right now.
4:08So I guess we could be underrating that. I mean, this is a guy who has been, it's been useful in the NFL.
4:15It's not downright for a seventh round pick, very productive, but I mean, it's just, he offers not a lot of explosive
4:21ability and isn't, hasn't even really necessarily been like that great of a short yardage guy, which is what would bang Jameer
4:28Gibbs as the first overall pick if it was to happen.
4:31I think just the upside, you have to just take it on here because there was eight games that Montgomery missed or
4:37played under 25% of the snaps and Gibbs averaged 25 half PPR points in them.
4:42So, uh, I think the most likely scenario is David Montgomery's role is, you know, cut in half and that goes to
4:48Pacheco and the other half of it goes to Jameer Gibbs.
4:51So to me, it'd be maybe like just the lions defense was so bad.
4:55The offensive line doesn't materialize. Uh, and then Jared Goff takes a step back and now the lions finished 10th in scoring.
5:02And then at that point, that's the difference where Puka goes crazy.
5:05Jamar chase goes crazy. And then Gibbs, you know, he still finished a top five fantasy running back, but he's not the first overall pick.
5:12That's about as worst case scenarios I can possibly think of.
5:15Yeah, I guess that's, that's the key here is like, we're, we're thinking about even just like a moderately disappointing season for
5:22Jameer Gibbs would be considered a bust at the first overall pick.
5:25But I don't, I think it's really difficult to paint a scenario where he absolutely ruins your fantasy football season, which is
5:32why he's going as the first overall player. Last thing I just wanted to touch on here with Gibbs before we move
5:38off of him, because you, you mentioned drew Petsing.
5:41Um, I kind of want to expand on, on why, cause I, to be transparent, I share this opinion.
5:46Like I am pretty optimistic and I liked the Petsing higher, but he is without a doubt.
5:51One of those like fantasy Twitter boogeymen, you know, that's out there.
5:54Like people hate the drew Petsing offense. Uh, can you kind of expand on why you are a little bit more optimistic
6:01maybe on him as the coordinator here? This was more for the McDaniel offense.
6:05Cause I was starting to see against like too high, uh, defenses who's, uh, running the ball effectively.
6:10And obviously it was like the Devon, H and dolphins, uh, the Raheem Mostert era.
6:14Like that was number one, but number two was the Petsing Cardinals.
6:18And they only had James Connor. I really liked the James Connor stuff, but a lot of that was just, you know,
6:24the lanes were wide open and he kind of runs a different scheme than some of the other offenses that we're seeing.
6:30It's a little bit more smash mouth. And it's a little bit more of a wrinkle into some of these two high shells.
6:37Uh, so we'll see. He just kind of pops up in some of the advanced metrics.
6:42I'm sure that some of the Petsing stuff that people didn't like was just maybe the, the roles of the receivers.
6:48But, uh, in terms of just like focusing on like Jameer Gibbs and stuff, I feel good about that.
6:53Yeah. My theory on Petsing coming in here, and it sounds like we're kind of on the same page is that I,
7:00cause watching the lions receivers are very in close order for reception perception did their profiles.
7:04I felt like when I was immersed in the passing game there for the most part was just what they usually do in the past game.
7:12You know, it felt very similar to the Ben Johnson era.
7:15And I do think Dan Campbell has a pretty strong hand in that.
7:19I think Petsing's here mostly to improve the run game, which, you know, everybody was on Petsing all the time about Kyler Murray and, and Marvin Harrison Jr.
7:27And I I've obviously thrown some of those, uh, stones here, especially with the receiver usage, but pretty much no qualms with the run game.
7:34So I actually think he's a net positive for Gibbs.
7:37Maybe we can come back to that later when we talk about another lions player who is in the first round here
7:43in a little bit, but let's move to the second overall pick here, which is Bijan Robinson, a running back who did
7:50just get a big fat contract extension here pretty recently.
7:52How can it go wrong for Bijan Robinson this year?
7:55So to me, this is where the difference between Gibbs and Bijan.
7:59I do think there's a lower floor with Bijan, uh, just because we have a, uh, new coaching staff.
8:04I don't trust the offensive line nearly as much because the quarterback play can like really fall apart.
8:09If two of fuels pressured and stuff, and it's not the exact offense that they got the most out of them with
8:16the McDaniel era, then that's where I can be like, okay, the, the Falcons, they can finish, you know, bottom five, bottom 10 points this year.
8:23Like, absolutely. And there's just like no chance at the line.
8:26So I think the difference between Gibbs and Bijan to me is more of the floor case.
8:31Uh, and the reason why I've actually been thinking about ranking.
8:35Puka and Jamar chase, even ahead of Bijan is just the combination of like Juwan Taylor's your right tackle.
8:40It's two, uh, who has some level of a back injury and then Penix.
8:44And then with Stefanski, uh, they are, they might be looking for a future quarterback soon.
8:49Plus the defense, both of their first round edge rushers, uh, probably not going to play, uh, this year with Jalen Walker,
8:55just going down with the torn ACL. So I, to me, the Falcons could like, they can pick first overall.
9:01Like, I think they're like in that range of outcome.
9:04Um, and that's where like, okay, Bijan just doesn't get enough goal line touchdowns.
9:08And then he finishes four points behind, uh, Jameer Gibbs on a per week basis.
9:12And that's where, uh, he didn't matter. Here's a despicable question.
9:15Um, which running back do you think is more likely to pop in, you know, five to six, very annoying touchdowns this year, Isaiah Pacheco or Brian Robinson?
9:23I think Brian Robinson's clearly better than Pacheco personally.
9:26Me too. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And then like Bijan for a couple seasons has not gotten all of the goal line carries.
9:32So like there's at least some precedent of that.
9:35Obviously the same thing with Jameer Gibbs, but I just think that Brian Robinson was somebody that I'm pretty sure he's making more money.
9:42I just think that he's a better player. Yeah.
9:44Uh, totally agree with you on that one. And I mean, when you look at my overall rankings right now, I do
9:51actually have Jamar chase over Bijan Robinson for some of the reasons that we've outlined here.
9:55I, and that's why it's going to be tough in a moment when we have to talk about how can it not work out for Jamar chase.
10:03Cause I think there's so many ways that it can work out for Jamar chase this year.
10:08And I mean, even the floor is extremely high there.
10:11Yeah. I don't love taking a running back. And Nate and I are going to do a show on this at some
10:17point later this month, just like we did last year.
10:20Like looking at offensive projections versus ADP and like the guys that are getting taken really high.
10:25The Falcons always show up with this because they always have these two really good players here.
10:30And I think this could be, I mean, I think this offense could really be brutal this year, not just because of
10:36the quarterback situation, which you talked about there and some of the offensive line concerns.
10:41Um, where are you at with, and we just talked about Drew Petsing, like Drew Petsing's former, um, you know, kind of, uh, mentor there, Kevin Stefanski.
10:48Where are you at with the Stefanski experience relative to obviously how it's gone in Cleveland and just where he's at from an offensive play caller standpoint.
10:56For a while there, I probably would have ranked him as a top 10 OC.
11:01Maybe the last couple of years, I haven't found the right answers, but I think him and Deshawn just were like never on the same page.
11:08Uh, I think that two of fits maybe the Stefanski style a little bit more than Michael Penix, but at the same
11:14time, they're going to have to see more Michael Penix before they like firmly move on from both of these guys.
11:21I, which I think is the most likely outcome here.
11:23Uh, I, I liked Stefanski. I think in, in the run game, I think that the quick hitting stuff could all work with him.
11:30I think that Deshawn was just like not willing to kind of play that style.
11:35And I think they really struggled there. Those offensive lines were really bad too.
11:39Um, I think the Falcons offensive line is definitely a tier two above that, but, um, just look at the implied team totals.
11:45The lines are at 26 points. The Falcons are at 21 points.
11:49And if you had to ask me, is that gap can be more than five points per game this year?
11:55I would say yes. Like that feels those two feel too close together to me.
11:59Yeah. Way too close together. Um, yeah, I, I, I wanted to ask you about this to fancy thing just because I
12:05think it has been really difficult for me to, to kind of figure that out as I'm talking about the Falcons here,
12:12because it is a little bit difficult to divorce Stefanski from just how poorly of a fit it was with Deshaun Watson from the beginning.
12:19And then he's got to do things like higher Ken Dorsey to like kind of move them into a spread world.
12:25And then that, and then take like play calling, get play calling back and forth, all that whole thing.
12:30Um, also Stefanski, I guess it's not going to call plays this year.
12:34It's going to be Tommy Reese again. And like, I just don't really know how to judge Tommy Reese based on the
12:40goofball quarterback situation that was in Cleveland. It's just very weird, but I, I think it is still an important variable to
12:47consider even for a guy like Drake London. Like one of the nagging things I can't get out of the back of
12:53my head is just how much I loved the way Drake London was deployed last year.
12:58Uh, in really the last two years and in Zach Robinson's offense.
13:01And like, is there, is there a part of the range of outcomes here where Drake London just gets moved back into X full time?
13:08Especially when the other two guys were like the other two guys were shown on the screen.
13:13It's like, you know, I still got the candle lit for Jahan Dotson, but it's Jahan Dotson and Zachariah branch.
13:19I mean, those guys are not playing X receiver.
13:22Okay. We, we know that for sure. So Drake London in this like dynamic Z, you know, slot heavy role.
13:28And I know we're talking about B. John Robinson, but this is like how the offense just goes really poorly.
13:33And then he's the running back attached to the 31st ranked offense in the NFL.
13:38And last year, Hayden, one of the most bizarre things that maybe only I care about is that they came out in
13:44Cleveland last year and like moved Jerry Judy to X and Cedric Tillman to Z.
13:48And I was like, what? That's so weird. Like that bothers me a little bit when I'm projecting the ceiling for the Atlanta Falcons offense.
13:55I really haven't even thought about that to, to that degree, but I think you, you are spot on there.
14:01Like if they're trying to get branch on the field in a year where they're really tanking, the only way you can
14:08do that is if he's in a slot wide receiver, which is the exact role that we want Drake London to be in.
14:14So I think that, that makes me a little bit nervous here.
14:18I just think that the floor for the Falcons seems really, really bad.
14:21I think offense, some of the aging players, like their left tackle has been around forever.
14:26Juwan Taylor's been so inconsistent. Like all of a sudden, like I do think there's some more downside risk.
14:32And I think separately to Bijan, it's if Puka Naku and Jamar Chase have these seasons, like we're talking about top 10
14:38seasons at receiver of all time, which I fully, fully believe is possible here.
14:42Even if Bijan has like the same season that he had last year, if Puka and Chase just go a tier above
14:48that, which I think is totally possible, then that would be another way where it fails, where you just kind of look stupid drafting second overall.
14:56Yeah. And he has like 95 really scammy to a based receptions that then also evaporate when Michael Penix gets on.
15:02Yeah. There's a lot of ways where it goes really wrong for the Falcons, but I think Bijan's relatively safe, but let's
15:08move to those two receivers and talk about the other end of the range of outcomes here, which is going to be really difficult.
15:15You mentioned the ceiling that's really present for these two guys, but Jamar Chase at the third overall pick, how could it
15:22not work out for Jamar Chase and something beyond Joe Burrow gets hurt?
15:25Matt, I've got nothing. I mean, I really don't, I don't have anything.
15:29What can you possibly say? Uh, I guess like Josh has brought this up on our show.
15:34They're tinkering with like under center stuff this year and maybe they're like just, you know, galaxy braining this.
15:39I think it's worth them trying some of the under center stuff.
15:43And Nate brought this up where that's just like to help, like just chase Brown and have a different wrinkle.
15:49And so they're not just the same exact offense.
15:51And I think because the offensive line has gotten so much better, not multiple tiers better over the last couple of years,
15:58I didn't think it'd have some success doing it.
16:00So I think this is the time that about the off season where I would start throwing in those wrinkles.
16:06Maybe if they just like really start overthinking things and that doesn't work, then maybe the bangles are closer to like, you know, eighth, 10th and scoring.
16:14And it's like, this has a chance to be the highest scoring offense in the league.
16:18And that you want Higgins chase burrow Brown. Like you just want all of them.
16:23Yeah. I mean, we just had the show yesterday with the highest upside picks in each round with Chris Allen and our
16:29pick for the first round was Jamar chase because I mean, this is terrible analysis, but I'll, I'll repeat it again.
16:35That's how much I love this terrible analysis. He's just like the type of talent that's due for a 20 plus touchdown season, literally at any moment.
16:43And that's why it's really difficult to pick him for this exercise.
16:46And because even if the offense for some reason takes a step back because they can't figure out, I'm with you generally
16:53that like, they should be trying to figure out the under center stuff and, you know, add more wrinkles than just Joe
16:59Burrow does the, you know, field general thing. And the whole point and shoot spread offense, it's probably worth it.
17:05But even if it doesn't work out, they still try to force it.
17:09Like Jamar chase is going to eat a bunch of easy catches there because they make his role more and more dynamic every year.
17:15So I do think of the 13 players we're going to talk about here.
17:20I did feel like he was pretty convincingly the hardest one to make a case for how it doesn't work out besides he gets hurt or, or whatever.
17:28Cause he's, he's the best, he's the best receiver in football.
17:31It's really hard for the best receiver in football to bust out in fantasy.
17:35Pretty much. I guess maybe the other things to kind of nitpick would be the, the defense does look a lot better this year than it did previous.
17:43And you just never know about the rest of the division.
17:46You know, the, the Steelers play really slow paced and the Browns are going to be completely pathetic that, you know, maybe
17:52they don't feel as stressed about hanging 30 points as they have in previous seasons.
17:57But they still have a lot to prove on defense.
18:00You're kind of just like hoping that Dexter Lawrence and some of their other free agents kind of take the next step.
18:06But yeah, he's such an automatic pick in the top three.
18:09Totally. I mean, if that happens, like T Higgins is a bad pick where he's going.
18:14Probably not Jamar chase is a bad pick where he's going.
18:17Okay. Fourth overall pick is Pukinokua, Los Angeles Rams receiver.
18:20Um, I guess I have to ask you like, how does this work?
18:24How does this one not work out without again, the hurt dynamic, uh, for, for Puka Nakua or Matthew Stafford.
18:29So how does this one fail for Puka? Yeah, he's just a biter off the field.
18:34I think the civil case like just freaks up, you know?
18:37Don't yeah. Don't mean to be glib about it, but like literally he's in a rehab center by week five.
18:43Who knows? Typically civil cases don't mean suspensions in the NFL, but also if you're in civil cases and you're going to,
18:49to, to rehab, then like obviously there's concerns. We've obviously seen the stream.
18:53So to me, like him versus chase, like who's more likely to have something off the field.
18:58It's obviously Puka because there's some, some evidence of that.
19:01I think still the most likely scenario is that does not impact his playing time whatsoever.
19:05And all the rest of my notes for Puka are just sensational.
19:09Um, and then the other thing that he has is Matthew Stafford's, uh, left tackle also in trouble.
19:14And like, that's kind of how things can kind of spiral where, you know, Matthew Stafford's back in, in the chamber.
19:20Uh, but at the same time, you can say the same things about Joe Burrows health.
19:25So I don't even know which one would be more likely to get injured.
19:29I think that Stafford may be a little bit more likely to, to miss some time, but I mean, there's nothing about
19:35bad to say about Puka individually here. So, like I said, last year, uh, when Scott and I did the show, we,
19:42we painted a pretty gloomy picture at the time for Puka Nakua because it was, it was in the middle of like
19:48the Matthew Stafford hysteria, uh, with the, with the back injury, all that stuff.
19:52So at the risk of, uh, getting smoked again on this, let me, let me, let me actually say that when Nate
19:58and I did the top 10, uh, offenses episode on football 301, we both had the Rams as the number one ranked offense.
20:05So instead of like sitting there, you know, doing the, the typical NFL media thing and talking about how awesome the Rams
20:11are, we're actually like, let's, let's paint how this can go wrong for the Rams.
20:16And there are actually a lot of ways where this offense can fall apart pretty quickly.
20:20And of course, some of them do involve injuries to the quarterback.
20:24Devante Adams is 34 years old and, uh, a declining player, you know, no matter, no matter what, like what level of decline it is.
20:31He is an, I think, objectively, you know, a declining player.
20:34Does he go right off the cliff? Then we're talking about, you know, Jordan Whittington and Kanata Mumfield, not super jacked up
20:40about those guys increasing the offensive potency. Um, you know, do they try to ram their head in the wall of the 13 personnel stuff?
20:48And this year it's just not that cute. You don't catch anybody, anybody I surprise.
20:52You mentioned the Alaric Jackson thing, but then I keep coming back to this Hayden.
20:56And like, this is a theory of mine. Cause we haven't really seen an action yet.
21:01I still think even if all of that happens because of the way Puka Naku is used, he's so like chaos and quarterback, not proof.
21:08Cause nobody's quarterback proof. We watched this last year with Justin Jefferson, but if you can just compare the role of Justin
21:14Jefferson to the role of Puka Nakua, the guy that's going to get away with a scam is definitely the Puka Nakua archetype of the player.
21:22Yeah. I fully agree with that. Like all those negative notes that you're talking about, you're like, okay, that's how Kyron doesn't get home.
21:29That's how Devante Adams doesn't get home. That's how Matthew Stafford doesn't get home.
21:33And I'm like, Puka is still going to leave with 10 targets no matter what it's almost maybe the opposite would be
21:39like if the defense is so good and they're just blowing teams out.
21:43Like, do you have to get Puka? Yeah. The 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th target.
21:47And, and maybe that the Jamar chase, they kind of separate JSN.
21:51Just like, it's overwhelming how many more targets they get, man.
21:54That's, that's just making things up. I mean, this one feels right.
21:57Feels pretty automatic. I feel way worse about those things that you mentioned, which I do agree with are true.
22:03When I'm sitting there, Devante Adams versus DJ Moore at the four or five turn, Devante Adams versus DeAndre Swift.
22:09Those type of things make me nervous. The three tight end stuff, like sometimes Devante Adams would be like the lone wide receiver there at some point.
22:17Like that should just be Puka Nakua. And then the other thing I know we're supposed to talk negative if Puka Nakua
22:23starts getting the red zone, uh, like stuff instead of Devante Adams, it's over.
22:27Like it's, it's over for fantasy. Like he will be outscoring everybody.
22:30Um, and even without that, he was still outscoring everybody.
22:33So to me, I, in full PPR, I'm, I'm actually considering first overall.
22:37That's how I feel about Puka. Yeah. I have, um, Jamar chase is my first overall pick in full PPR.
22:43And yeah, Puka Nakua is, is right up there as well.
22:46I agree. I mean, there's a, there's a range of outcomes where if he seeded red zone work even more so to
22:52Devante Adams, like, and, and the defense does get better.
22:55As you outlined there, he kind of becomes fancy Zay flowers, like a rich man, Zay flowers.
23:00But that's not good. Like that's so unlikely that, that at age 33, 34 for Devante Adams, he's getting more work from,
23:06you know, the ascendant superstar player in his prime, hoping to make big on a contract at this point.
23:12But yeah, tough exercise for the first four players.
23:15These are really good. First four picks. It is going to get a little bit more interesting as we talk through picks
23:21five to eight, which we are going to do right on the other side of this quick break.
23:26All right, we're back. We are continuing to go through the tortured exercise of figuring out how each of the consensus first
23:32round picks could not work out in fantasy football this year.
23:36Let's go to the fifth overall pick here, Hayden, and talk about 49ers running back Christian McCaffrey.
23:40I guess once again, we, we can't say the word hurt.
23:44Like he gets hurt. Does that, does that mean we can't say the word substation?
23:48Um, we can, we, can we show the eye of Sauron, uh, meme again that we showed on the show yesterday.
23:54I would love to see it just because I think it's funny, but how does it not work out for Christian McCaffrey this year?
24:01I mean, if everyone else stays injured and the offensive line doesn't materialize, then the 49ers can finish 16th in scoring this year.
24:08I've never said that about the 49ers with, with Shanahan.
24:11This feels like the most fragile offense that they've had.
24:13Um, just because like they're reliant on all the old players and all the old players are also injured aside from Christian McCaffrey.
24:20So, uh, I think it'd be a combination of this is not a top 10 offense.
24:25The Christian McCaffrey run game numbers still look bad.
24:27I think that's partially a CMC thing, but also partially the offensive line is not very good.
24:32Trent Williams is old as well. Like if he is not part of that offensive line for, for a stretch, like the
24:38offensive line to me looks pretty weak across the board.
24:41Um, so it's just, yeah, like all of a sudden they're projected for 22 points per game instead of currently projected 25.
24:48And if you just like look at the history of the Shanahan offense is typically they're way, way above 25.
24:54I think this is less of a Christian McCaffrey conversation and more like pull the thread on what you just said there
25:00that I think this is on paper. Got to be, I mean, one of the worst Niners offenses in a minute.
25:06There's a, there's a lot of issues with this team right now to the point that like I've, I've made, I've made no bones about this.
25:13I'm, um, I am Cardinals curious this year. I don't know how, I don't know how long it's going to take.
25:19Like, can I get 20, 20 more days, August 26th.
25:22Can I convince myself that the Cardinals are going to finish higher than the 49ers in the, uh, in the NFC West?
25:29It probably involves a lot more injuries, a lot more substation talk, but yeah, it's, it's, it's concerning that that's even, and
25:35obviously my brain's poisoned, but it's concerning that that's even in my mind at any point.
25:40That's just how rough it looks on paper right now for the Niners.
25:43Yeah. And that their defense is still a work in progress coming back from a lot of injuries on that side of the balls.
25:50Like that could be, you know, closer to, to average, to below average, which first stints of the year, they were definitely below average.
25:57Um, and then the schedule, uh, we have to get a boon on the phone real quick to, to hit us with the exact schedule numbers.
26:05Uh, but just looking at the, the rest of the division, it's, it can't be, uh, an easy schedule versus last year
26:11where the talk of the town was always, well, it doesn't.
26:14It didn't matter. The coordinator schedule is just so cake that Christian McCaffrey is going to walk to a number one finish, which he did.
26:22So I still draft McCaffrey with the concerns, but I have more concerns about just, you know, Brock Purdy, George Kittle coming
26:28back from injury, Mike Evans, or I'm like looking around like, man, this team is really fragile.
26:33Like just look at the players that right there.
26:35Like that's not like the most steadily starting 11 there.
26:38And then I think the depth for the most part is pretty weak too.
26:42Right. I mean, Debo Samuel, like still a useful player, but not helping you down the football field whatsoever.
26:48Not helping you guys. He's like just the exaggerated fun house mirrors of version of the player that he's always been.
26:54I don't even think like Matt Mayako doesn't even think Christian Kirk is going to make the team.
26:59He's covered the, the, he's covered the 49ers forever.
27:02I liked stripling as a day to sleeper. And, you know, picking him 33 overall, that's a whole separate conversation, but it
27:08wasn't like, oh yeah, stripling's going to come in here and he's gotta, he's gotta be like the most explosive player on the offense right away.
27:15And he kind of needs to be the most explosive player on the offense right away because Mike Evans will make plays downfield.
27:22But Mike Evans is, is, is old and not moving as well as he used to at this point.
27:28So Christian McCaffrey last year, among running west with 150 plus runs, there was 33 of them.
27:33He ranked 20, he was 27 in percentage of runs that went for 10 plus yards.
27:37Like there was not a lot of explosive plays last year for Christian McCaffrey.
27:41If you just want to talk about like success rate on those runs, obviously that was higher because he would move the
27:48chains, but there just wasn't a ton of juice overall for McCaffrey.
27:51And I don't even know how much that's a him thing 25th in yards before contact per rush attempt for him last
27:57year out of again, 33 qualified runners. I can't get out of my head how he was talking about how it was
28:04the hardest year of my life last year at the end of the season.
28:08Some of that was, you know, his personal life.
28:10He had a child and you know, all that sort of thing.
28:14But, but a lot of it is like he was worked to hell last year.
28:18I mean, fourth most opportunities for any running back targets and rush attempts since the year 2000 regular season playoffs combined.
28:24Again, I know we're not supposed to do the he's going to get hurt thing, but that's the that would be the
28:31concern for how it doesn't work out. Is it like not only is he maybe he stays healthy, but he's just a
28:37severely diminished player than what he was last year.
28:39Yeah, if you're ranking the guys most likely to get hurt, you would have to be at the top of it just
28:46because there's a history of players coming off of that amount of workload missing time.
28:50And plus the guys that get hurt the most are the guys that touch the ball the most.
28:55And he's at the very top of that list at the same time.
28:59He takes care of his body so well. He looks incredible still to me.
29:03Maybe the other thing would be Shanahan's already said that he doesn't want him to have the same workload, which I think is like nice.
29:10They say that so you can keep him fresher.
29:13You lose five touches per game and then he's still not moving the needle as a rusher and like that starts to matter.
29:20But the starting point that we're talking about is I mean, he laughed the field at running back last year.
29:25So like you can start nitpicking some of this stuff and I'm still rolling the dice.
29:30Yeah, and where I talk about like B. Sean can have 90, you know scammy receptions from two or something like he
29:36even if McCaffrey is completely the wheels are falling off where he's going to get, you know, 80 like he's going to
29:43moonwalk to 80 catches like that's that's going to happen.
29:46Basically, I think forever. Yeah, I will believe Shanahan doesn't want to overwork McCaffrey when I freaking see it, bro.
29:51Like he says every year they get some third round running back fourth round running back that it's like, OK, yeah, Garendo.
29:58Maybe that would make sense to take some some and that never happens.
30:01I mean that Kyle Shanahan is your buddy that like wakes up and says I'm never drinking again.
30:07It's like, OK, we'll believe it when we see it.
30:10Yeah, see you next weekend. All right. Six. Yeah.
30:12See you next weekend, buddy. All right. Sixth overall pick Jackson Smith and Jigba.
30:16I actually think this is maybe our first one where I'm like, yep, I could see a scenario here.
30:22I don't know if I believe it, but I could see a scenario.
30:25So what's your scenario for how JSN doesn't work out as a first round pick this year?
30:30So this is the first time in a fantasy podcast.
30:33We haven't said the word regression for 30 minutes to start.
30:36I would say this is the first time where I think you can actually say it with JSN in the fact that
30:43he had a 35 percent target share. The next closest was at 32 percent, which is a Mon Ross St.
30:48Brown. That's just really difficult to repeat. And obviously, when you resign Rashid Shahid, you would have to assume that they want
30:55to get him more involved than he was last year.
30:58I think that they couldn't get Cooper Cup more involved than he was just because he wasn't moving as well.
31:03And then the other thing is just you're just changing coordinators here where maybe that coordinator doesn't feel like he has to
31:10get JSN, you know, the 12th target in of the game.
31:13I still like the new coordinator. They really talked him up.
31:16There was no ties to Mike McDonald, which I kind of like when it's just like all of a sudden it's like
31:23this guy just was awesome on the whiteboards and we just trust his game plan comes from the Shanahan tree.
31:28But at the same time, it's just really hard to do it at 35 percent targets.
31:33And without Kubiak, if they're not hitting these downfield shots as they did last year, I just don't think that they're going
31:39to have to have the same amount of targets to JSN this year where I think that the Bengals and the Rams
31:46are going to keep doing that with with Jamar Chase and Puka.
31:49And JSN's done this for one year where the other guys have done it for multiple years.
31:54Yeah, that's that's a good point that he's only done it the one year now.
31:58I think he's obviously an ascending player. I don't hold the first two seasons that much against him, honestly, at all.
32:04But you mentioned the target share there. Thirty five point eight percent.
32:08Not only is that number one last year, it's number one for any wide receiver since the year 2015.
32:13Now, number two was DeAndre Hopkins in 2017 with thirty three point seven percent.
32:17So there's actually a pretty decent gap between number two and number one.
32:21However, number five after Michael Thomas and Antonio Brown 2019 and 2015 respectively was 2018 DeAndre Hopkins.
32:26So we have seen a guy hold that like thirty three percent in back to back years.
32:31Can JSN dip to like thirty two percent and still pay off ADP?
32:35I think yes, for sure. The question just really is like, what is your level of belief in guys?
32:40You mentioned Rashid Jahid or even, you know, AJ Barner takes another step forward.
32:44Elijah Arroyo gets more involved this year. Torrey Horton, you know, I'm still a hard and fast Torrey Horton truther.
32:50Like, is he somebody that takes a step forward?
32:53You know, Cooper Cup is still there as like kind of a coach on the field at this point.
32:58But yeah, I'm that those were like kind of the things where I could say, do we get then down to a
33:04twenty eight percent target share for JSN? And can he pay off the sixth overall pick in this offense with a twenty eight percent target share?
33:12Yeah, I think that would be close to his floor just because I really like Shahid.
33:17I think that Shahid offers more than what he's been kind of given to throughout his career.
33:21But that's also just me kind of just projecting on some of the underneath stuff that I've seen from him.
33:27I think to me it would still be the downfield stuff was absolute purity last year.
33:32He had 20 yards per game more than he did in the twenty twenty three twenty four years on targets.
33:38Fifteen plus yards down the football field. If you're looking at JSN's yards per target, that was at ten and a half.
33:44Like even the best wide receivers in the NFL typically are in the high nine.
33:48So that comes down a little bit. Completion percentage over expected.
33:51That was at plus ten percent. Those are the type of numbers that tend to decrease, especially when you're running so hot
33:58on the downfield stuff, where to me it's more like, OK, we're at thirty two percent targets.
34:03Now it's at nine point six yards per target.
34:05That's still an incredible player. But by the time you're trying to compete with Jamar Chase and Puka Nakua, things have kind of fallen, fallen apart.
34:13Five hundred and seventy five yards last year on throws of 20 plus air yards.
34:17That was the 16th most for any receiver since 2015.
34:20So there's definitely some regression concerns for JSN, which is why I personally have him ranked as my eighth overall player behind
34:26the next two guys that we are going to talk about here.
34:30So let's try to paint a negative picture on those two gentlemen here, starting with Jonathan Taylor, the consensus seventh overall player off the board.
34:37How can it not work out for the newly highly paid Jonathan Taylor?
34:41To me, this would just be setbacks with Daniel Jones, with Alec Pierce.
34:45And then all of a sudden there's just not enough weaponry here.
34:48They have a new tackle play as well. I still am just such a believer in Shane Steichen and Jonathan Taylor to
34:54me still looks just absolutely incredible in the football field.
34:57So even with with that, I would still view him as a solid player.
35:01But without Alec Pierce or without Daniel Jones over the last couple of years or the backup quarterbacks, I mean, his numbers
35:08do get like cut in half between his wins and losses.
35:11So to me, that's what it is. At the same time, man, it seems like Daniel Jones is moving around well enough.
35:17And there's also this kind of thing where it's like, all right, if Michael Pittman's not involved, if Daniel Jones can't move
35:24quite as well, but he's moving enough to play, it's like, do we just give Jonathan Taylor even more work, more receptions?
35:30And I think that would kind of alleviate some of the concerns.
35:33But to me, it's just like who's most likely for the quarterback to get injured, Daniel Jones in this first round because
35:40he literally is coming back from a torn Achilles.
35:42Like to me, that would be the answer. Yeah, that is definitely the answer.
35:46And I know we are supposed to be negative here, but there's definitely a thought that I have where Taylor catches more
35:53passes this year because as you mentioned, like Daniel Jones isn't moving quite as well.
35:57But at the same time, though, the Alec Pierce injury, it sure would be nice if this guy could get on the practice field at some point.
36:05Like that is a there's there's been 0.0 positive injury news for Alec Pierce.
36:09And then we're talking about like, you know, I think at one point this offseason, I said, you know, Laquan Treadwell, shout out to him.
36:16He's like still hanging around the NFL. He's still hanging around and cashing checks, baby.
36:20And now it's like Laquan Treadwell might play snap for the Colts this year.
36:24Like that's that's a talking point out of training camp.
36:27OK, so then it's like we got Laquan Treadwell on the field.
36:31Yeah, I mean, I love Josh Downs, obviously, 100 percent.
36:34But, you know, Ashton Duel and Nick Westbrook-Kine, their like solution to all this might be let's sign Keenan Allen in the year 2026.
36:41That offense is going to suddenly start to feel really, really tight.
36:44And at that point, are we teams just loading the box?
36:47There's no Alec Pierce or ineffective Alec Pierce. And I don't know that that is definitely we could be in for a
36:54slog of a season for Jonathan Taylor. I can certainly see that playing out.
36:58Yeah, I'm reading Stephen Holder and he says right now it's Josh Downs is one and then it's Ashton Duelen, Laquan Treadwell
37:04and Nick Westbrook-Kine in some order for two to four.
37:07So they need some help at wide receiver there.
37:09Yeah, I'm guessing that Alec Pierce is going to be fine.
37:13Apparently he's moving around better like like when he's rehabbing around.
37:16But, you know, he's very important and he's supposed to be going into a role that he's never necessarily had as somebody
37:22that's going to get probably more in breakers, more quick hitting stuff, which I thought last year.
37:27I'm curious is eventually going to be able to do that.
37:30But if you don't have that presence and then Josh Downs probably not going to be quite as effective when he's, you
37:37know, playing more outside and two wide receiver sets, then, yeah, like you said, this offense just could feel a little, little tighter.
37:43Yeah, they're just one of those teams, the same thing with the Falcons, where there's a little bit of, as Scott likes
37:50to say, look out below potential, where this is just this team really falls apart really quickly, which is certainly that's on.
37:56That's got to be on your radar with the Colts just over the course of any conversation you're having with them in the offseason.
38:03That is definitely true for them. So that would be how it doesn't work out for Jonathan Taylor.
38:08Anytime you're it's kind of funny. Like there's a few running backs in the first round here where I'm like, how good is this team going to be?
38:16You know, when we talk about Atlanta, when we talk about Indianapolis and I don't know about you, man, but I do
38:22not like attaching my fantasy running backs to teams where I have this vibe.
38:26And we're a little bit pushing that here with these two guys we've talked about.
38:31I mean, shoot, even McCaffrey. We had that conversation and there's one more of those discussions to come up later on.
38:37But first, let's talk with the eighth overall pick.
38:39I'm on Ross St. Brown. Honestly, this I think this is this is just as difficult for me to paint a really
38:46negative picture as like Puka Nakua, which is why, again, I have him ranked as my third receiver and seventh overall player coming into the season this year.
38:54I have him seventh overall as well. This to me would just be some type of a new role for Amon Ross St.
39:01Brown with a new coordinator. But even then, at this point, I know you've met you've mentioned it like Amon Ross St.
39:07Brown's kind of just doing it all like he can, aside from just winning go balls down the field.
39:12But you don't have to do that. If he's playing on the inside, outside, like I think that he would be able to survive.
39:19And this is not just like some gimmicky slot wide receiver anymore.
39:23It hasn't been that way in a while, but he just keeps taking the next step.
39:27So it would just be like Petsing is just not in the same or doesn't have him on the same role.
39:33Laporte is flashing. J-Mo is taking the next lead.
39:36They have to get Gibbs involved. And then all of a sudden, they're averaging 25 points per game instead of more than that.
39:43And then it gets squeezed a little bit. Man, even then, I think he would still be a top five or so wide receiver.
39:50Yeah, he just is a guy that is so safe from a projection standpoint, from a floor perspective.
39:55I pretty much think he's going to be ranked as like the fifth receiver in fantasy every year.
40:00And he's going to finish as the third receiver in fantasy pretty much every year until he retires.
40:05You know, normally when coordinators come in, we do the whole like this guy into this role.
40:10This happens obviously with St. Brown all the time.
40:13Yeah, the Amon Ross St. Brown in the Marvin Harrison Jr.
40:16role, that would not be fun. That would be like the opposite of that.
40:20You know, Amon Ross St. Brown in the Amari Cooper, you know, Browns role.
40:24That's not what anyone actually wants to hear. And I don't think that would happen, to be clear.
40:29Like, I have Marv's rookie season 15% on nine routes.
40:32I will go ahead and take the under on Amon Ross St.
40:35Brown, 15% nine routes. I don't think that's going to happen.
40:39He was at 7.8% last year. Like I said, the buck stops with Dan Campbell here.
40:43There's no way Drew Petsing in his interview for the offensive coordinator position was like, Hey, Dan, here's a pitch.
40:49What if we played Amon Rah more at X?
40:52Like, that's not going to happen. Come on. I was looking at Ian Hardis' timeline, and he said that right now, the
40:58number three wide receiver is Greg Dortch, actually ahead of Isaac Tesla.
41:01That's where it's like, okay, Dortch is playing some slot, and now Amon Ross is legitimately playing outside.
41:07But I mean, come on. You don't change the guys that are making you the most potent offense over the last half decade.
41:13I saw that post, you know, and look, Ian's like a Greg Dortch sicko, so that's my first asterisk on that.
41:19My second is, and we're going to come back to this when we do this fantasy hotline segment at the end of
41:26it, the type of receivers that flash in training camp to certain people.
41:29Again, we're going to put a pin in that conversation because I have a lot of thoughts on that, and we're going
41:36to unpack that a little bit later. But to just finish up the conversation here on St.
41:41Brown, I honestly really, really struggle with how this doesn't work out for him.
41:45I guess it's just essentially he runs bad on touchdown luck, but he was the most involved receiver among any receiver on
41:51his team in terms of targets inside the 10-yard line.
41:54So that would just be how it goes wrong for him as he's a four-touchdown player somehow.
41:59Like, he's fancy Zay Flowers, and everybody else scores touchdowns, but what are you going to do?
42:04That would be tough for me to paint that picture.
42:07So even if chaos happens for the Lions, I think he's pretty insulated from that.
42:11So that was our most pathetic attempt to find a way to how it doesn't work out for someone.
42:17So on that note, let's take another quick break.
42:19We come back. We've got more players to talk about how they actually won't work out this year, and we will get into that right after this.
42:27All right, we're back. These two next picks here, Hayden, at number 9 and number 10, I do think are interesting.
42:33And now we're starting to get to the area where it's a little less safe here.
42:38Starting with ninth overall pick, CeeDee Lamb, who I am a couple of spots behind the Yahoo ADP here.
42:43Not significantly. I still have him ranked as a top 12 player for me.
42:47But it's certainly a little bit closer with guys behind him than the guys before him.
42:52So ninth overall pick, CeeDee Lamb, how does it not work out for him?
42:56It's just that the George Pickens kind of just matches him one for one.
43:00And then that means that CeeDee Lamb's not in the 30% target share, which I think that he firmly can be.
43:06But last year is a 26% target share. If you remove the two injured games from CeeDee Lamb, that was 89 yards
43:12per game, which is still plenty enough. But there's a difference between, you know, Jamar Chase could average 110.
43:18Pook and Naku can average 110. And I'm just not sure if CeeDee Lamb's going to get that with George Pickens that involved.
43:24I think most of it last year was just he didn't score as many touchdowns per game that he then he typically does.
43:31But you also could just argue like there's a reason for that.
43:34They have like Javante Williams in the power back role.
43:37A different coordinator that needs a little bit more balanced.
43:40And then George Pickens is kind of awesome in that area.
43:43So I would say that the touchdown difference between him and the rest of the first round wide receivers could be the actual difference.
43:50Yeah, I think that's very well said. It's to me still very possible that CeeDee Lamb and George Pickens are both great picks.
43:57And that's kind of how I have it ranked right now.
44:00And I really like taking both those guys where they go.
44:03So I actually but I have them in the same tier.
44:06So I'm kind of hedging my bets about like which one of these guys could have the massive season.
44:12And I go kind of both ways on the Pickens.
44:15Is he going to move around more, you know, this year, which is what they're saying out of training camp and whatever.
44:21And part of part of me is like, well, they said that again.
44:25They said that all last year and then they never did.
44:28He played a historically low percentage of his snaps in the slot relative to his production.
44:337.6 percent. He still averaged 84 yards per game.
44:35And yet that's kind of my point that like what 7.6 percent of his snaps in the slot.
44:41Like he can actually only go up. And even that I think doesn't matter for CeeDee Lamb.
44:45In fact, Hayden, I could argue it the other way that because they now have a real deal third receiver in Ryan Flournoy.
44:52And it's not like Kevante Turpin or whatever. Like CeeDee Lamb, who actually played the lowest percentage of his snaps in the
44:58slot last year, actually could see his slot rate go up.
45:02Yeah, I could definitely see that part. I still think that CeeDee Lamb still would be awesome on the perimeter.
45:07But totally. I'm with you. The Cowboys, like this team can finish first and scoring this year.
45:12Like they return everybody. I think they have very competent coaches, especially on that side of the ball.
45:17As long as they get the left tackle spot figured out there and they got a couple different options to figure that out.
45:24This team is going to put up crazy amount of points there.
45:28And I still don't trust the defense. It's getting definitely better.
45:31And it could be like a fringe top 10 one.
45:34But this team should be in plenty of shootouts.
45:36I still feel very good about the George Pickens side of the equation, too.
45:40Like when you're watching the Cowboys, you can just tell the safeties.
45:44It's just like, OK, which which side is going to have the second safety?
45:48And then the ball attack process just throws the ball to the other side of the field.
45:53And for a couple of the games early on, they were like kind of shading towards Pickens.
45:58And then CeeDee Lamb had nice games and it kind of flipped the other way around.
46:02So it could be maybe just like a little bit less consistent versus what we typically have with CeeDee Lamb.
46:08But man, this is at the margins here. I think that he's still firmly around one player.
46:13Yeah, they're kind of the rich man's bears where like where I've said, which bears player do I want?
46:18Yes. Like I'm comfortable with all of them. They're kind of even more so than that because it's really only two guys.
46:25I mean, I really like Ryan Flannoy. He's a good player.
46:28Good wide receiver three that I think could maybe moonlight as a wide receiver, too.
46:32But he's not going to be commanding, you know, a Roma Dunes, a Luther Burden type target share in this offense.
46:38But speaking of the bears, one of the reasons I've been even more and more bullish on the bears is I think
46:45that defense is going to, absolutely stink this year.
46:47They're in a lot of trouble. Dallas, on the other hand, 32nd in EPA per play last year as defense.
46:53I think that's only going to go up. Like, does that matter for these pass catchers who were going crazy last year as their defense with Matt Eberflus?
47:01More Bears talk. He's just giving it up on the other side of the ball.
47:05Does that move the needle at all from that perspective?
47:08Yeah, it could a little bit. I do think of this.
47:11I mean, like you said, they can go from like dead last in categories to I think a fringe top top 10.
47:18Basically, half of their defense is going to be have new starters and that like you can throw in Quinton Williams to that as well.
47:25And a couple of the their other players are young young players like Donovan Ezra.
47:29Like those types could take another step up. So that is a theory.
47:33I still think that division is you're going to find some shootouts with the commanders.
47:37You're going to find some some tight high scoring games with with the Eagles.
47:41So I still feel really good about it. But I think the difference between Amon Rot and C.D.
47:47Lamb, I think there is a notable difference there just in terms of the exact volume that you're getting.
47:52And then also, like you said, the Lions defense is just a total train wreck.
47:56And I think the Cowboys have graduated past that.
47:59Yeah, there's just no way. Always a famous last words in football.
48:03There's no way that secondary is going to be as much of a disaster as it was last year.
48:08I mean, that was some sometimes when I've been charting receivers against the Cowboys, like, is this even usable?
48:14Like this is this is the success rate adjuster.
48:16Some of the digs reps like he was like saying my fault before the receiver even had caught the pass.
48:22There was like some press. I forget who it was.
48:25It might be like Brian Thomas or somebody were like he tried to press him, like fell over.
48:30And it was just looking at the side of the line being like, sorry, guys.
48:34I'm like, what is this? Sorry about that. Oh, yeah.
48:37And that was probably like his one press coverage rep of the of the entire game, because otherwise just we're just back
48:44in shells and that middle of the field's open.
48:46Technically, this is middle of the field closed coverage.
48:49But let me tell you what. Now, the field is open.
48:52OK, so absolutely brutal stuff. So I think Dallas is not going to be the 32nd ranked defense this year, which might
48:58shave off a little bit of ceiling here where C.D.
49:01Lamb. I definitely think there are a lot of universes where Lamb is, you know, he's not ninth overall pick value, which
49:07is why I haven't, you know, again, we're splitting hairs, but I haven't.
49:11There's the 12th overall pick right now. I think there's like, yeah, he's a mid second rounder as opposed to a first round value in fantasy.
49:19I think the real threat to him is the amount of high upside running backs going directly after him is just overwhelming
49:25that the most likely scenario is half of them just outproduce whatever C.D.
49:29Lamb and Justin Jefferson can do, especially in half PPR.
49:32And there's just a lot of options. We're only get to a couple of them, but even some of the running backs
49:38we're not going to talk about today, like the Kenneth Walker tier of Marion Hampton, who I think is very boom bust.
49:44But like their upsides just clear the threshold that I think a Justin Jefferson and a C.D.
49:49Lamb can get to given the constraints that they have around them.
49:53Yep. I couldn't agree with that more. That's why for me, there are a couple of those running backs that I've got ranked ahead of C.D.
50:00Lamb, including the next guy that we're going to talk about here, which is James Cook.
50:05It's 10th overall pick up the board. I know you've been a little more skeptical of James Cook.
50:10So where are kind of the ways that it can go wrong for him?
50:14I've got him at 13th overall. I think it just kind of depends on how much you're buying the case that he's
50:20going to be more involved in the past game.
50:23I think there's definitely room for improvement. He's 39th in receptions per game last year.
50:27So the most likely scenario that comes up a little bit.
50:31I would just be surprised if that ever approaches the top 10, especially when you're adding D.J.
50:35more to the mix. Like there's a chance to all the Kincaid plays more.
50:40It's like, how many pass attempts are they actually going to throw this year?
50:44And then I think with the James Cook stuff, new offensive line coach, your coordinator gets promoted to head coach.
50:49He's never done that before. You lose a guard.
50:52The other four players return here. It's going to work out for James Cook.
50:56You're talking about somebody that does not catch passes at the same rate as everybody else does.
51:01So to me, you're just like kind of nitpicking that I think some of the other guys behind him in ADP could
51:07just catch more passes and be just as explosive on the ground as James Cook was last year.
51:12Yeah, there's obviously a lot of ways that can be mildly disappointing for Cook, you know, which is why he's in the
51:19same tier as a lot of the names that you mentioned there included for me.
51:23Kenneth Walker, Derrick Henry. I mean, Derrick Henry, as long as he's Derrick Henry, he's going to moonwalk into 10 touchdowns.
51:29Obviously, James Cook scored a bunch of touchdowns last year, but there's always a chance that he just runs.
51:35He's just runs with some bad luck at the goal line and Josh Allen, you know, plunges those things in instead.
51:41If the passing game takes a step forward. I do just wonder, like, I really wonder about this defense, like where the
51:47Bills defense will be this year, too, in terms of game scripts for them.
51:51You know, it's a pretty big system overall there for that team, you know, going from what Sean McDermott has done to
51:57what Jim Leonard is going to do. So as much as like the offense probably should stay relatively the same with Joe
52:04Brady getting the promotion there and obviously was the offensive coordinator play caller.
52:08So that should relatively say the same. The defense is undergoing some pretty significant changes.
52:12So that does make me just kind of wonder about game scripts and everything.
52:16And yet, Hayden, this team has four games on their schedule against the Dolphins and Jets.
52:21Like James Cook might make your fantasy season when they're smoking the Dolphins and Jets and he's in run heavy game scripts in just those four weeks.
52:28Yeah, it's a very good point. Sometimes, though, the Bills are so far ahead in the division.
52:33And we can't say that anymore because the Patriots are involved.
52:36We're like week 17 rolls around. You're like, all right, how many snaps is James Cook actually going to play this week?
52:43But you're in good shape if that's the problem that you have.
52:46I would say the last thing I have with him, 5'11", 190, and he's coming off a bunch of touches, you know,
52:53like smaller running backs coming off that many carries between the tackle carries.
52:56Like that's where, you know, maybe his injury risk is a little bit higher than some of the others.
53:02But we're not allowed to play the injury game here.
53:05I knew as soon as I said that, by the way, about the two games against the Dolphins Jets.
53:10I'm like, guarantee one of them is week 18.
53:13Yeah, the Jets is week 18. So cute joke.
53:15And the Dolphins week 17, by the way. So, yeah, if they've got to do it, which they probably won't have a division wrapped up.
53:23But if they've got it wrapped up by then, maybe it's a Ray Davis show in week 17.
53:28That's my early tilting. If you draft James Cook in the first round of your fantasy draft.
53:33But, yeah, I'm generally pretty optimistic about Cook this year.
53:36But there's certainly he's a guy that just tier wise, there are ways it can go wrong for him that don't even involve an injury.
53:43We are going to talk a little bit about DJ more when we get into the fantasy hotline segment.
53:48So that's a fun discussion that we should have there.
53:51But for now, let's take another quick break. We come back.
53:54We've got two, actually three more consensus first round picks to talk about.
53:58We will do that right after this break. See you guys in a sec.
54:02All right, we're back. And it is time for the 11th overall pick here.
54:06Justin Jefferson and Hayden. I'm still holding the line on Justin Jefferson as a 10th overall player.
54:11But I'm pretty sure this is the exact language I used in the Pukunakua conversation.
54:15Getting nervous by the day that Kyler Murray hasn't just like shut the shut the door on this quarterback competition.
54:21Like it's August 6th, man. How have we not just been like, all right, Kyler Murray's a starter.
54:26We're done with the McCarthy thing. Am I overthinking it?
54:29Am I getting too weirded out by the fact that Kyler has not slammed the door shut on this whole thing yet?
54:36Where are you at with Justin Jefferson 11th overall?
54:38How could it not work out for him as a first round pick?
54:42I just moved him down. We do rankings refreshes every week here at Yahoo.
54:46And this was the week where I did move Justin Jefferson down because Kyler Murray is not running away with it.
54:52I still think the most likely scenario is it is Kyler Murray and Justin Jefferson goes back to being very, very good.
54:58At the same time, I also think because he hasn't ran away with the job, it could be Kyler Murray for 11 weeks, 14 weeks.
55:06And then the fantasy playoffs get here. And then we've got to see McCarthy one last time to make sure he's not the option.
55:13And at that point, I would get really nervous again.
55:15So I broke some ties against Justin Jefferson versus all the running backs that I really like in this most recent update.
55:22If the narrative kind of changes and it's like, oh, yeah, Kyler's obviously way better.
55:26And just took a week to pick up the exact ins and outs of the offense, then I would be willing to move Justin Jefferson back up.
55:34But we just watched how things go wrong. It's like this.
55:37This is the easiest guy that we've done today by far.
55:40Totally. And even if we want to live in the world where Kyler Murray is the starting quarterback for however long it
55:47is this year, I still think it's actually pretty easy to paint the picture of how it doesn't work out for Justin Jefferson.
55:53And that's like with the caveat here that it's August 6th and we got a long way to go in preseason because
56:00it took a long time for the Colts to get to like, OK, we're starting Daniel Jones.
56:05And my whole point in saying that is that about this time last year, my instinct on the Colts quarterback situation was
56:11tell me how both of these guys like it doesn't go exactly like this.
56:15Both these guys make starts this year and everybody gets fired at the end of the year.
56:20But obviously didn't go like that. It was Daniel Jones and he was he was pretty, pretty good for, you know, obviously
56:26very, very good for a long stretch of time here.
56:29My instinct on August 6th is like I'm kind of starting to think the quarterback on the depth chart there.
56:35I would say it's a frightening image. They almost look alike.
56:38If you guys are not, if you guys are just audio listeners right now, it is worth going to the Yahoo Fantasy
56:44YouTube channel, which, by the way, you should be subscribed to like the video to help us out here.
56:50OK, we're building up the channel and just checking out the quarterback.
56:53We have depth charts for every team. And Jason Jung outdid himself on this one with QB.
56:58Who knows? And it's a half face of Kyler Murray, half face of JJ McCarthy.
57:03And yeah, their hairlines and the smiles do line up alarmingly.
57:06Well, for the difference in the races, it's they do look very similar.
57:09We'll see you later. Just height wise, you know, not not not the same either.
57:14Although JJ is not the biggest dude in the world.
57:17I wonder who weighs more. OK, beyond that point.
57:19Got to get back on track. My brain is everywhere now.
57:22OK, so here's here's the thing. I am starting to think like tell me how both quarterbacks and the who knows, you know, conglomerate here does.
57:30Don't make starts this year. And I kind of worry that like everybody's going to get fired at the end of the year.
57:37Kevin O'Connell probably too good for that. But I don't know.
57:40Here's the other thing I would say. Kyler Murray is a very boom bust quarterback.
57:44I think even if you're like a Kyler truther or you're a Kyler hater, you could agree that there is a bust
57:50and a boom aspect to his game. He's not going to throw consistently over the middle of the field where Justin Jefferson
57:57with Sam Darnold was absolutely cooking over the intermediate and deep middle of the field that season.
58:02So whatever. I think I do think Kevin O'Connell's offense is almost like to boom bust to a degree.
58:07I am. I am not like a J.J. McCarthy apologist by any means.
58:11That offense did not really help him out too much last year with just how vertically inclined everything is.
58:16So even if Kyler is the starter for week one and then, you know, let's just go ahead and call it 14 or more games.
58:24I still think that could be like a pretty rocky road for Justin Jefferson as the 11th overall player.
58:29Yeah, I think that the KOC stuff. I love his offense, but it takes like a pretty competent quarterback and someone that's
58:35really willing to hold on to the ball. I remember when Sam Darnold had those back-to-back games where they got eliminated and he took all those sacks.
58:43I remember watching that game back on all 22 and be like, what the heck just happened here?
58:48And if you watch those, there was no outlet underneath.
58:51And that Sam Darnold was waiting, waiting. It's like, okay, we're doing two post routes in a go-go route.
58:57Yeah, you're going to take some sacks. I think KOC, if he was just speaking honest about it, he's like, well, yeah, we're going to get sacked sometimes.
59:05Then we're going to have a 40-yard completion in the hole.
59:08And I think in the aggregate, he is right that that is a more efficient way to play.
59:13But it does require the quarterback to be able to actually eat that.
59:17Darnold was awesome at it. Kirk Cousins was pretty cool at it, too.
59:21I think Kyler Murray can do that. But some of those crossing routes that Justin Jefferson was hitting with Darnold, that's something
59:27where you kind of have to speculate a little bit with the Kyler Murray stuff.
59:31I still feel good that we're back to having a real ceiling with Justin Jefferson.
59:36It's just, you know, so does all the other players being drafted right after him.
59:40Sometimes teams take a third receiver that I think really, it's like a declaration of intent on what they want to be.
59:46And that year in 2025, after the Sam Darnold, because I think Sam Darnold's 2024 season, obviously he just won the Super Bowl Seahawks.
59:53But that season has aged really well. And honestly, I think it was underappreciated at the time.
59:58I mean, it's like more underappreciated in hindsight. And I was probably guilty of underappreciating it, by the way.
60:04But shout out to the Sam Darnold oligarchs. But I think the thing that stuck out in my mind after that season
60:10was in 2025, you know, they signed the late Rondale Moore and they drafted Ty Felton.
60:15These like kind of small spit the ball out and yards after catch type players.
60:19And I think they wanted like that guy, but Ty Felton didn't do anything.
60:23Obviously, Rondale Moore was injured all year, of course.
60:26So it's just like they now their third receivers like Juwan Jennings, which to me indicates like Kevin O'Connell says every year.
60:32He wants to like get the run game going and all that.
60:35Like, I think that's what Juwan Jennings is here for.
60:38And I just don't really know if I buy the run game this year.
60:42So I have a lot. The Vikings were an interesting offseason team to talk about, but I'm still sitting here at the beginning of August.
60:50And I don't feel like I have a lot of answers about how this offense is going to play out this year,
60:56which makes me nervous for a first round fantasy pick.
60:59I still like to play the optimistic angle with KOC and especially the offensive line has a chance to be really good.
61:05Like Daris and O'Neal, those guys have obviously missed some time there.
61:09But when those guys are healthy and the Donovan Jackson going into his second season, I thought that he flashed enough fries
61:15has been around the block as well. So it does feel like this offensive line has, you know, materialized.
61:21They have to stay healthy and prove it. But I do think that there's some semblance of an upside.
61:26Whatever happened to TJ Hawkinson? This is something for the other for another show.
61:30Like this guy was supposed to be awesome. And like nobody talks about TJ Hawkinson ever.
61:35I think there's like reasons for that. It's definitely comes back to the injury.
61:39But that's another one of these guys who in theory should be working over the middle and underneath.
61:44But like he's just not part of the game plan.
61:47Yeah, not been great since the injury. For TJ Hawkinson.
61:50Okay, we have two players to talk about here technically at the 12th overall pick because their ADPs are super, super close.
61:56And they've kind of been flipping back and forth.
61:59It's Ashton Gentry and Saquon Barkley. Let's talk Barkley first because I think it's kind of the...
62:04It's really hard to paint like a super pessimistic picture for Barkley.
62:07But how does it not work out for Saquon Barkley this year?
62:10It's just the Jalen Hurts offense like just turns out to be just the Jalen Hurts offense.
62:15And that wasn't the coordinator last year. Look, I think it was the coordinator last year.
62:20So I don't think that's like the greatest thing we can talk about.
62:24But the other thing would just be like the offensive line has played a lot.
62:28And they've very injured last year. And like you don't know about Dickerson's back.
62:32You don't know about Lane Johnson and his health and like those type of things.
62:36Dallas Goddard was not a good blocker last year for whatever reason.
62:40He's been older. I think they have a good offensive coordinator now.
62:43You lose your Hall of Fame level O-line coach in Jeff Stoutland.
62:47I still... I'm grading towards the positive angle here.
62:49But it's just a similar enough season from last year does make him not worth a first-round pick.
62:55Yeah. Similar season for him last year, which I do think is kind of within the range of outcomes.
63:00I really go back and forth on Barkley, who for me I have right now as the 11th overall player.
63:06And I am also kind of flip-flopping back and forth between like him and Ashton Gentry, who we're going to talk about.
63:12But there's just ways where, yeah, the offensive line...
63:15We're not supposed to play the he gets hurt card.
63:18And I guess we can't also play the offensive line guys all get hurt card and the Jeff Stoutland moving on card.
63:24But that's how it doesn't work out for Barkley.
63:27And also, you know, he's another year older, has taken a ton of punishment.
63:31And, you know, maybe was like a slightly diminished player last year than he was in 2024 when he was like one
63:37of the best backs in the league. So I think there's definitely some risk with Barkley, which is why if you want
63:43to tell me he's an early second-round pick and not a first-round pick, I can totally hear that argument.
63:49How do you weigh him versus a guy like Ashton Gentry, who's the last player we're going to talk about here?
63:55Paint me the pessimistic picture on Ashton Gentry without just telling me to go back and watch the 2024 film.
64:01It's going to be 2025. It's the same thing with Justin Jefferson.
64:04Just like, you know, it's the same old season as last year.
64:08I don't draft much Ashton Gentry at all. I've got him ranked 15th.
64:11But that's a pretty big difference between where he goes and there's a lot of good players in that range.
64:17To me, you have to, first of all, the environment has to improve.
64:21It's going to improve. But it also has to improve multiple tiers to me.
64:25And then I question Ashton, and this is where you get in trouble saying this out loud.
64:30I question if Ashton Gentry really is one of those guys.
64:33And by one of those guys, I mean Saquon, Bijon, Gibbs, Jonathan Taylor.
64:37What if Ashton Gentry is more Josh Jacobs? I think he's a better receiver than Josh Jacobs has ever been.
64:43What if he is closer to Marshawn Lynch, who was awesome, but was not quite as explosive as these guys?
64:48And if he's not going to have the same level of explosiveness, and I do think he dances a little bit and
64:55seeks contact, I do think that's how he just doesn't rip enough explosive plays, even with the environment kind of improving a little bit.
65:02So you just never know. This offensive line, the right side still is brutal to me with Jackson Powers, Johnston, and DJ Glaze.
65:08And then they also have six slot receivers and nobody that can play on the outside.
65:13Could that end up factoring in here? I think that can.
65:16And nobody getting a lot of like pop from camp at this point, you know, actually one of their rookies that we're
65:22going to talk about has maybe been the most interesting one.
65:26When we get to the hotline segment, which will tell you just like is Malik Benson going to play a big role this year?
65:32That's where the Raiders receiver room is right now.
65:35So, yeah, there are ways where the team like they're they're still a bad team.
65:39Again, it feels better because it's a new coach.
65:42And I am a Kubiak fan. I'm a Fernando Mendoza fan, but it's not always immediate.
65:47Like most rookie quarterbacks are bad. You know, people still have a lot of faith in Cam Ward coming out of year one.
65:53And he was a horrible quarterback from a statistical perspective.
65:56And that was not a fruitful offensive environment. Like that can very much be the case with Ashton Gentry.
66:02Two things real quick on Gentry before we before we close the loop on these first round picks.
66:07One, to your point about like, is he not in the Bijan, you know, give tier whatever.
66:12That was generally their scouting report on Ashton Gentry.
66:14I mean, when anytime you ask like a draft value, you'd be like, well, he's not in that Bijan or, you know, that.
66:21But he's the right the next tier down. It's like, OK, well, that tier difference makes a whole hell of a lot of difference.
66:28We're talking about like Bijan can survive the Falcons and can Ashton Gentry survive the Raiders.
66:32Because last year, the answer was no, like a Gentry was generally was a fine fantasy player last year in the aggregate when you look at it.
66:40But it was a real slog based on him being a first round pick for the most part last year.
66:46And now he's first round pick again this year.
66:49And the second thing is, and we'll leave it here on this just to paint the paint the range of outcomes and everything here for Ashton Gentry.
66:56Tell me why Hayden Ashton Gentry is a better fantasy pick than Kenneth Walker this year without telling me where Ashton Gentry
67:03was drafted in the NFL draft last year. I mean, I have no I have no argument against it.
67:08I have Kenneth Walker. I moved him up to ninth overall.
67:11Like, I want to be the highest on Walker of anybody.
67:15I think that the infrastructure is online. He's a good football player.
67:18Like, I can make the case that Kenneth Walker is better than Ashton Gentry straight up.
67:23Just just watching the games. Yeah, I mean, listen, I think that's fair.
67:26I have Walker 15th overall, which is four spots higher than his current Yahoo ADP.
67:31And yeah, I mean, I really want to rank him ahead of Derrick Henry.
67:35I just like I really like Derrick Henry. But again, I also so then it's it's kind of like, well, do I
67:41like these guys better than Ashton Gentry? I really don't know.
67:44I really don't know if I do. And I kind of like the way those run games are set up in Baltimore
67:51and Kansas City a little bit more than what I think the Raiders are.
67:55And I think the Raiders will be better last year.
67:58The problem is that they were 32nd or 31st.
68:00So long way to go for the Las Vegas Raiders.
68:03We're going to take our final break of the show.
68:06We come back. We're introducing our new fantasy hotline segment.
68:09We will get into that right after this. All right.
68:12We are back. And welcome to the fantasy hotline presented by Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL.
68:17Every Thursday, we are taking your most pressing questions for fantasy hotline.
68:21And today we are covering which training camp hype players to buy or sell.
68:25Hayden, we have the people out there send in great questions.
68:28Great questions. And some very interesting, a wide range of names here that we are going to discuss whether we're buying or selling these ones.
68:35First question comes in from come on underscore Levi.
68:38Love that I get to read Twitter handles. I'm so, so bad at this.
68:42Okay. After the first episode of hard knocks, I feel like Jadarian price should be discussed.
68:46Heyden, real quick before I go to the second part of the question.
68:50Are you watching hard knocks? No, I don't watch any TV pretty much.
68:54Okay. I'm not watching hard knocks either. And I also only watch TV when it's raining outside and I have to walk
69:00on the treadmill in the garage in the morning.
69:03That's pretty much my only TV consumption these days.
69:05The diplomat, by the way, on Netflix. Nice show.
69:08Anyways. So I was like, can you clarify this for me, buddy?
69:12Because I don't know what we're talking about with hard knocks.
69:15But anyways, they followed up and said the clips of the episode show that he's extremely agile in space and was dicing through the defense.
69:22Pre pads, mostly the running back coach went to bat for him early on in the coaches meeting that they showed.
69:28Producer Colin, who is a sicko consuming hard knocks, informed me that, quote, they basically made Jadarian price look like a God on the show.
69:35So are you buying Jadarian prices deity level performance and editing here in hard knocks?
69:40I believe that the editing could showcase that he looks really good.
69:43I will say this. There's some sometimes I see Twitter like praising running back clips when the defense is clearly not trying to tackle the player.
69:50They're like, wow, he ripped open another big run.
69:53I'm like, well, do you see how the linebacker like went like he pretended to tackle him?
69:58That would have been an actual tackle. Um, but I think that price is interesting in that we just have to figure
70:04out, is he going to catch passes or not?
70:07Because in college he didn't he didn't have many pass protection reps at all.
70:11I think that's what Holani is going to be doing early on in the season.
70:15Um, but if he's actually gonna get some receptions on early downs, then that's how he can kind of separate from the
70:22committee that Kenneth Walker had when Charbonnet was healthy.
70:24And then the other part, obviously, is just how much longer until we see Charbonnet.
70:29Uh, there's been some reports like he could be back earlier than later.
70:32I mean, he he he tore his ACL so late into the season.
70:36Like he would be complete outlier if we saw him even in October.
70:40That would be an outlier return. Uh, so there's a lot of moving parts here.
70:44I think he's fine. He's not somebody that I want to like chase up.
70:48Uh, just because I do. I do believe that Holani and Zach Charbonnet are going to have a real role here.
70:54Yeah. And like they can talk about how the running back coach and say he went to bat for him early on and the whole deal.
71:02The one thing I keep making the point on is that they were pretty fine.
71:06Nick, not taking Janarian price at the 32nd overall pick.
71:09They were desperately trying to trade out of that pick.
71:12So I think that kind of makes it flimsy when it comes to that part.
71:16But yeah, from a fantasy standpoint, I'm pretty much where you are that he's not somebody I want to chase up.
71:22He's somebody that I do think is really interesting at his ADP, which right now is like a six round pick about 65th, 66th overall.
71:29Um, I've got him maybe in the seventies. So I think just kind of skeptical just about that part of it.
71:36Like the, the true, true ceiling outcome for him.
71:38But I mean, it gets pretty gross pretty quickly at running back, especially relative to some of those guys that are going in the round five area.
71:46I mean, like we're taking, we're taking guys like Quinchon Judkins.
71:49We're taking guys, um, shoot, like, you know, cam Scadaboo.
71:52I didn't realize how behind ADP I am on cam Scadaboo until I like compared my rankings to Yahoo.
71:57And I was like, damn, I didn't, I didn't really know that people were that excited about Scadaboo as a fourth round
72:04pick when like, I'm not sure how good he is.
72:07And I'm not sure how good the giants are.
72:09I I'm guess I'm not sure how good the, that Jadarian price is.
72:13Cause he's, he's a rookie, but I'm pretty convinced that the Seahawks will be good, like from an offensive standpoint.
72:19So that's like a tie in his favor, even if I have him ranked behind those guys.
72:24Yeah. I don't really talk that positively about Jadarian price, but I am right at ADP in my 63rd overall player.
72:30And that's where he goes in both best ball and on Yahoo.
72:33So I'm fine with where he's going. I just think that they do seem pretty committed to having this be a rotation
72:40and they're just not proof that he's going to be catching a bunch of people.
72:44Passes. That's another narrative is like, you'll see a lot of running backs are like, they're getting the ball in practice.
72:50He's catching passes. Like, first of all, every running back in the NFL can catch a football.
72:55Like that's like not the part that's God that we're worried about here.
72:59It's just like having the timing, being on the field, not giving away tendencies.
73:03It's like those types of things where I think they actually make the difference.
73:07So it's one of those narratives where I don't always buy like, Oh, this guy's catching passes.
73:12He's going to do that in, in, uh, when the games are on, you know, you just never know what drills their practicing.
73:18And then you beating a linebacker, 25 yards down the field on one-on-ones, like one thing versus, you know, actually doing that in the games.
73:25I mean, one-on-one reps are just like atrocious for judging anything.
73:29I mean, those, those guys are so slated. They're advantage in a one-on-one situation.
73:33Um, yeah, you mentioned Twitter, like judging the running back reps when a guy's like literally not being tackled.
73:38Um, I'm pretty much out on Twitter's ability to evaluate anything, uh, for, for like, for the most part with all due
73:45respect, with all due respect, my, I do, I do not need anyone telling me like, look at Jalen Waddle's limp here.
73:51I'm like, okay, just, just tell me when he's going to practice or not.
73:55Like whatever. Uh, I say as like the biggest Jalen Waddle bag holder right now.
73:59So maybe I'm revealing my, myself there. Okay. Let's get to the next question.
74:03This one's sack Kings, two, six, one, eight, uh, Sacramento Kings.
74:06Just want to make that clear. What's your take on some of the rookie receiver buzz coming out of camp?
74:12I'm thinking guys like Denzel Boston, Caleb Douglas, Jacoby lane, and Malik Benson.
74:16Do any of these guys have a chance at fantasy relevance in 2026?
74:20Okay. Now I'm going to let you answer, uh, just like pick one of these guys here to talk about.
74:26But before I do, I want to note, um, that one of my theories on like off season receiver buzz in OTAs
74:32and mini camps, it's the small jitter bug, you know, little guys shout out to the late great Chris, Chris Westling.
74:38He always used to talk about like, this is the Paris Campbell corollary.
74:42And I kind of think like Malik Benson's buzz was coming mostly from mini camp.
74:46And I don't really know that much about Benson.
74:49Honestly, I need to do some more work on him.
74:51He's not a guy chartered pre-draft, but like, that's where his buzz came from.
74:56And he's kind of that small fast guy. Denzel Boston.
74:58Then. Okay. So Denzel Boston, Jacoby lane are the next ones, which is training camp to me.
75:03This is where I'm, uh, extending Chris's research here.
75:06The doctorate level research is that in training camp, the contested catch bros always get a ton of love.
75:11And I'm, I'm a Denzel Boston guy, but I just want to note that like, oh yeah, Jacoby lane and Denzel Boston are tearing up.
75:19That's because any idiot, even the idiots on Twitter can be like that contested catch is sick.
75:24Okay. Like stock up for this guy. And that's not to say that either of those guys aren't going to work out.
75:30I just want to note, like these are the guys, especially rookies who usually get hyped, maybe overhyped in training camp.
75:36And then these easily could be like, they practice red zone for the entire day.
75:40And it's like, oh yeah, of course, like Denzel Boston had a couple of contested catches down there.
75:45Like that's when he's going to get used where it's like the other parts of the field that he might not get used.
75:52Um, do these guys have a chance at fantasy relevance?
75:55Of course it chance. Uh, the problem with Denzel Boston and then with Caleb Douglas is like these offenses are projected for
76:01so few points that even if they are on the field, even if they are catching four passes per game, they still
76:08don't matter in redraft league, especially Yahoo. The default settings are only two wide receivers.
76:12Like the bar is so high for, for relevance.
76:15Um, I do think that Denzel Boston, Caleb Douglas and Jacoby Lane, like can be NFL starters for multiple seasons.
76:20Like that we could actually care about them. Um, so in really deep leagues, best ball, I have been drafting some Caleb Douglas now.
76:27Um, and I find him pretty interesting because it does seem like Chris Bell might have to have like an entire redshirt, uh, year.
76:34Um, and then I'm not that surprised that Jacoby Lane and Elijah Strat, I view that as kind of a toss up.
76:41Uh, and I think that we just saw ways to go before who's going to win that job.
76:46Denzel Boston is the one that you could theoretically draft in your standard redraft league though.
76:50Yeah, you can squint at it with Denzel Boston.
76:53Cause like I said, prospect that I liked, I thought it was kind of a shame that he fell where he did.
76:59I think it was a first round receiver. Uh, I mean, listen, I think him and Casey Concepcion are going to be
77:06a great duo long term for this Browns offense and, you know, against all odds, I'm kind of invested in shooter Sanders,
77:12like being a good player for them, at least for this year.
77:15Uh, yeah, we'll see about that, but you know, just, just enough for these guys to flash this year.
77:21So he's the one that's interesting and just quickly on lane.
77:24I mean, listen, could he be a sacrificial X receiver for this team this year?
77:28Definitely don't think that's much him winning a bunch of contested catches in training camp, which has mostly been every highlight I've seen.
77:35Like we knew he could do that. It's Kenny like separate on the NFL field enough to get targets.
77:41And lastly, Caleb Douglas, man. I mean, Caleb Douglas has to be the rookie, the most, the rookie receiver that nobody cares
77:47about the most of all time because, and I say that like, I actually think Caleb Douglas can play a little bit,
77:53but there's been a pretty consistent, positive drum beat on Caleb Douglas.
77:57And I see like zero, zero dynasty bros on my timeline, hyping him up, which maybe means there'll be nothing.
78:03But if you, if you have like a late pick in your rookie draft is still ongoing, like I think there's a
78:09very viable path to him being at least a good system fit in Miami.
78:13And yet again, think about the cornerbacks he's going against in training camp practice for the, for the dolphins.
78:18So maybe that could be part of it. Yeah.
78:21But at the same time, I think there's going to be fourth quarters where there's going to be some free receptions in this offense.
78:28I think a lot of those will go to, uh, Greg Dolcich in Malik Washington at the same time.
78:33We're talking about Greg Dolcich and Malik Washington. If Caleb Douglas can play the, uh, if he can play the guitar, he's
78:40going to be, um, at least on our like waiver wire radar.
78:43So I think that he's, he's pretty interesting. Yeah.
78:46All the reports on him have been actually pretty solid.
78:49So I would not be surprised if like he led the dolphins in receiving this year.
78:53Um, does that mean anything? Uh, probably not, but that would be kind of cool.
78:58Yeah. Be kind of cool. And again, for your dynasty bags, maybe that's something there, uh, breaking news into the show.
79:04Jameer Gibbs, uh, signs a three year, $67.5 million deal, uh, that could be worth up to about 75.75, uh, million dollars.
79:10Uh, so shout out to Jameer Gibbs who heard us saying there's no way he could be a bad pick in fantasy
79:16this year and said, it's time to time to sign the dotted line.
79:20Cause Hayden and Harmon said, so, uh, okay. Final question that we'll get in here before we get out of here.
79:26This is from FF jury. Obviously Cyrus Allen, uh, you know, someone you could talk about, but IMO you've talked about him enough on RP.
79:33Yeah, correct. I, I feel like I do talk about, I'm, I am talking about Cyrus Allen too much.
79:39Just kidding. There's no such thing. Did you hear in Bert Breer's article?
79:43The chiefs think he's the next Stefan digs. That's right.
79:46They need to sign Stefan digs. They've got Steph digs at home, baby.
79:49Okay. We talked about Cyrus. Right. So the other three names mentioned here, Casey conception, DJ more, Bucky Irving.
79:55I actually want to talk about DJ more with you a little bit, because I saw you posted about more earlier this
80:01week and literally we were sharing a brain on, on kind of just some of your thought process with DJ more.
80:07So, um, unpack that one a little bit. Like where are you at DJ more relative to some of the other receivers around his ADP?
80:14Yeah. So I think we have to separate the discussions here.
80:18I thought that the bills trading the capital for him and then extending him was doing too much for what I think DJ more is.
80:25But at the same time, I would not be surprised if DJ more tries harder, cares more now that he's like in
80:31a super bowl contending team where he's definitely the top option, uh, just based off of the investments where you could not
80:38argue that once they had Roma duns, a Luther burden and, uh, Colson Loveland.
80:42So I'm expecting him to play better this year than, than the year prior.
80:46And I think that the target competition is pretty weak considering the bills are second in projected points.
80:51Uh, and all the other teams around them, that's the Rams, the lions, the bangles, uh, the Ravens, both of the, uh, Cowboys wide receivers.
80:58You have to draft their number one wide receivers in the first or the second round only.
81:03And DJ more is now priced way, way, way lower than that.
81:06I have him in the same tier as the Mike Evans, Devante Adams types.
81:10And I would just take the younger guy if I'm, if I am hunting in that tier.
81:15So I moved him up just because he doesn't have to be that great to be very relevant.
81:21I mean, we were drafting Gabe Davis in what round?
81:23I think that was about in this area. I think that DJ more for his words, what is better?
81:29Yes. Like, I mean, we can, we can have DJ more do a Gabe Davis plus season this year.
81:34I think that's totally possible. That is totally possible.
81:37Uh, and I'll just put a bow on it here.
81:40That was really exactly again, my thoughts on, on more relative to some of those other wide outs.
81:45But, um, I had this discussion with Nate on football 301, where if you look at DJ more like the routes that
81:51he runs really well, they're the routes that are going to be run in this offense, uh, in reception perception.
81:57And it was not the routes that were run in Ben Johnson's offense.
82:01So people can go check that out on the AFC East preview.
82:04They want more of a deep dive on it.
82:07But, um, I ended up deep diving myself and playing with the formula for way too long.
82:12Uh, after that discussion to try to quantify like receivers being misused, he was the most the sixth, most misused receiver relative
82:18to like the routes he ran versus the routes he's good on last year among the guys that I charted.
82:24So I think if there's a flip here, he actually will just straight up look better than he did as an individual last year.
82:31In addition to all the other things that you laid out there, but all right, that is going to do it for, uh, our first fantasy hotline here.
82:39Got a lineup dilemma trade debate or league controversy.
82:42The fantasy outline is open all season long. So send us your toughest questions.
82:46We might just feature them on an upcoming episode and that is going to do it for us here today.
82:51Thanks to our friends again, over at Toyota, the official automotive partner of the NFL who are here all season celebrating the
82:58passion traditions and unforgettable moments that make football America's obsession.
83:01Hayden shout out to you buddy. Great show. We tried to do the best we could to talk down the best players in the NFL.
83:08We will be back on Sunday. Scott Pienowski joins me to kick off position preview week by looking at the quarterbacks this year.
83:15That's going to be live as always right here 4 p.m.
83:18Eastern on Sunday. Until then, we are out.