PodcastFrom Yahoo Fantasy Forecast

Fantasy vultures: 10 players who are better in real life than fantasy

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 28 min

Duration

Estimated from transcript

Aug 27, 2026

Published

Thu, August 27, 2026

Player insights

Players mentioned

Topics

LeQuint AllenPat BryantAaron JonesAudric EstimeBijan RobinsonBrenton StrangeBrian Thomas Jr.Charlie KolarColby ParkinsonCooper KuppGarrett WilsonGeorge PickensJahmyr GibbsJauan Jennings

Player analysis

Player insights

Aaron Jones

PositiveProjection53:05

Nate Tice highlights that Aaron Jones has the highest rushing success rate among running backs with 1,000+ carries since 2013, calling him a 'baller' and a key addition to the Vikings' offense.

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Audric Estime

NegativeBreakout18:44

Matt Harmon suggests Audric Estimé (referred to as Jonah Coleman in transcript) has a career trajectory similar to Tyler Allgeier: a player who is technically sound, reliable in pass protection, and a 'real-life' asset, but potentially limited as a fantasy difference-maker.

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Bijan Robinson

PositiveValue11:54

Nate Tice views Bijan Robinson as more 'bulletproof' than Jahmyr Gibbs due to his build and versatility, suggesting he is a safer fantasy anchor even if Tyler Allgeier continues to command a significant share of the backfield touches.

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Brenton Strange

PositiveValue37:23

Matt Harmon views Brenton Strange as a valuable real-life player who is currently being drafted as TE21 in Yahoo drafts. He is expected to serve as a 'rich man's Cade Otton,' acting as a move tight end and adjuster in 12-personnel looks, though he will likely lack the high volume needed for consistent fantasy production.

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Brian Thomas Jr.

PositiveBreakout44:22

Matt Harmon believes Brian Thomas Jr. has the potential to be a better player this season than he was during his rookie campaign.

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Charlie Kolar

PositiveSleeper60:50

Matt Harmon suggests Charlie Kolar as a late-round best ball target, noting a real path for him to lead the Ravens' tight ends in snaps and provide occasional spike weeks.

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Colby Parkinson

PositiveUsage58:08

Nate Tice identifies Colby Parkinson as the Rams' primary inline tight end who is overtaking Tyler Higbee for snaps. Parkinson is highly effective as a receiver, ranking second in successful catches per route and fourth in first downs per route among tight ends with over 200 routes last year.

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Cooper Kupp

NegativeRole64:53

Nate Tice describes Cooper Cupp as a 'wide receiver in name only' (WRINO) who functions like a wing tight end. He is expected to maintain a significant role in the Seahawks' offense, which may limit the fantasy ceiling of other receivers like Rashid Shaheed.

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Garrett Wilson

PositiveProjection37:16

Matt Harmon notes that recent developments in the Jets offense are positive for Garrett Wilson's fantasy outlook.

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George Pickens

NegativeRole35:12

Matt Harmon compares AD Mitchell's development path to George Pickens, noting that both players initially struggled with zone coverage and route combinations while thriving in man-to-man, combative situations. Pickens has shown incremental improvement in his ability to handle complex roles over time.

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Jahmyr Gibbs

PositiveUsage11:32

Despite potential competition for goal-line work from a veteran backup like Kareem Hunt, Jahmyr Gibbs remains a top-tier fantasy asset because the Lions' offense is expected to be elite and he is a central engine of their scheme.

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Jauan Jennings

NegativeProjection47:00

Matt Harmon does not believe Jauan Jennings will be fantasy-relevant this year, despite some drafters targeting him. He views Jennings as a 'power slot' and elite blocker who will help the Vikings' offense and other players like Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison, but will not produce significant fantasy stats himself.

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Jonah Coleman

NegativeRole18:48

Matt Harmon and Nate Tice view Jonah Coleman as a high-floor, low-ceiling 'coach's favorite' archetype similar to Pierre Thomas or Tyler Allgeier. While he is reliable in pass protection and catching, he lacks the explosive upside to be a consistent fantasy difference-maker. He is expected to serve as a secondary back behind RJ Harvey, with his fantasy value tied primarily to potential injury-induced opportunities if J.K. Dobbins misses time.

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Jordan Addison

PositiveRole47:43

Nate Tice notes that the addition of a power slot receiver like Jauan Jennings opens up the field for Jordan Addison, allowing him to operate more effectively as a Z receiver on out-breaking routes.

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Josh Oliver

PositiveRole48:40

Nate Tice suggests that Josh Oliver will be involved in 11-personnel looks, helping the Vikings run the ball more effectively.

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Justin Jefferson

PositiveRole47:48

Nate Tice notes that while Justin Jefferson could be a great power slot receiver, the team prefers not to use him in that dirty-work role because he is one of the best receivers in the league.

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Kalif Raymond

NegativeRole22:23

Matt Harmon describes Khalif Raymond as a 'coach's favorite' and a selfless, reliable auxiliary player who excels in dirty work and vertical spacing. While he is a valuable real-life asset who helps open up the field for primary targets like Rome Odunze and Cole Kmet, he is not a high-volume fantasy option, likely maintaining a sub-10% target share.

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Kareem Hunt

NegativeRole7:12

Matt Harmon and Nate Tice identify Kareem Hunt as a potential 'vulture' for the Lions if signed, noting he fits the gritty, short-yardage, and pass-protection role the team values, which could frustrate fantasy managers of Jahmyr Gibbs by stealing goal-line touchdowns.

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LeQuint Allen

NegativeValue37:23

Nate Tice identifies LaQuint Allen as the epitome of a player better in real life than fantasy. While Allen is a 'coach's catnip' and an elite pass-protecting back who contributes on special teams, he is not expected to be fantasy-relevant.

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NegativeRole37:27

Matt Harmon and Nate Tice describe LaQuint Allen as a superior real-life player compared to his fantasy value. He is a specialized blocking back who plays on third downs but lacks pass-catching volume, ranking 47th in snaps on passing plays and running routes on fewer than 30% of dropbacks. He is expected to maintain a 15-20% snap share, with his usage potentially increasing against 'funky' defenses that require extra protection.

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Marlin Klein

PositiveSleeper62:24

Nate Tice identifies Marlon Klein as a potential late-round sleeper for the Texans who could develop into a productive tight end in the coming years.

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Parker Washington

NegativeRole44:17

Matt Harmon notes that the Jaguars have successfully identified the correct role for Parker Washington within their offensive personnel packages.

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Pat Bryant

PositiveSleeper47:03

Nate Tice and Matt Harmon are both high on Pat Bryant as a late-round pick, noting that he fits the 'power slot' archetype similar to Jauan Jennings, which provides value in real-life offensive schemes.

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PositiveRole57:05

Matt Harmon is high on Pat Bryant because he is expected to serve as the third receiver, filling the 'power slot' role that Harmon values for its ability to activate the rest of the receiving corps.

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Rashid Shaheed

PositiveProjection67:21

Matt Harmon remains high on Rashid Shaheed as a late-round pick, praising his hands, catching technique, and ability to separate on breaking routes, despite the presence of Cooper Cupp in the offense.

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Terrance Ferguson

PositiveRole59:14

Nate Tice notes that Terrence Ferguson adds a vertical element to the Rams' offense, though he will likely have a more design-specific receiving role compared to Colby Parkinson's versatile, high-snap role.

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Travis Etienne

NegativeUsage38:03

Matt Harmon notes that the Jaguars' reliance on LaQuint Allen for pass protection and third-down work impacts Travis Etienne's fantasy outlook, making the backfield situation schedule-dependent and potentially frustrating for fantasy managers.

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Trevor Lawrence

PositiveProjection43:24

Matt Harmon identifies Trevor Lawrence as the 'hub' of the Jaguars' offense and a quarterback he is excited to draft, noting career highs in rushing and a strong overall offensive situation in Jacksonville.

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Tyler Allgeier

NegativeRole13:43

Tyler Allgeier is a highly effective real-life player who excels in pass protection and success rate (13th among RBs), but he is capped in fantasy value because he lacks dynamic passing-game usage and is destined to remain a secondary option behind Bijan Robinson.

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

1,169

0:00Big Show here for you today. It's gonna feel like a little bit of a June show, but I promise you this

0:06is gonna be an incredible and actionable August show here for you.

0:09Nate Tice joins me for the 10 players who are better in real life than fantasy football.

0:14Yeah, we're not gonna sit here and just break down the routes for Aidy Mitchell or Kalief Raymond or Wyle Quint Allen is a great pass blocking back.

0:22We're also gonna tell you all of those things, but how it will impact some of the fantasy football stars you are drafting.

0:28From those guys as teams. Plus we finish it up with Nate's offensive line rankings.

0:33You're not gonna want to miss who his number one offensive line is and the number one offensive line he is most

0:39concerned about after seeing preseason all that and more come up on today's show.

0:43Let's get into it. What's going on everyone? I'm Matt Harmon.

0:46Welcome to the Yahoo Fantasy Forecast and it is a hell of a day to talk ball and joining me to do

0:52just that is Nate Tice for a show. I've been very very excited about Nate.

0:56We're gonna talk about some guys who are better in real life than fantasy football and you know, I like to say

1:02that I have my feet in both camps, you know, in terms of the real life and fantasy football, you know, depending

1:08on the time of the year, I kind of shift where my lean is right now squarely in August.

1:14I'm pretty I'm in fantasy land for sure. But you Nate Tice are our resident real life football guy.

1:19So we're gonna be talking about some guys who are better real life today and some offensive linemen on the show as well.

1:25So it's a big one here, buddy. I'm very excited.

1:28Yeah, we're using a term here. And it's like real life vultures and we get we can come up with a real better one off this.

1:35I've been really trying to brainstorm one. I'm kind of brain dead right now.

1:39But may I need to read Red Rising to juice up my brain.

1:43You know, that's some that's some vocab in there.

1:46But no, I am very excited for this one.

1:48Because I feel like every time I'm on the show with you, and it blends together on football three one sometimes, where I'm asking like, even a question.

1:56I'm like, Oh, I should ask this question through a fancy lens, because I'm actually curious on that side.

2:01But also, there's times I talk about a player usually blocking tight ends, a little bit of hit here where I'm like,

2:07in real football terms, this guy's a very valuable player, but fantasy, I'm not sure here.

2:12So very fun to kind of like really focus on it on and on those kind of players today.

2:17Right. And sometimes, though, these guys end up turning into fantasy players, right?

2:21I mean, I bring up the AJ Barner example all the time where sometimes, listen, you're going to give him a couple

2:27of weeks every now and again, because he's a real boy who can block in line and be that traditional wide tight end.

2:33That's that's kind of the guys we're talking about here.

2:36It's not just going to be a list of 10 players who are going to vulture touchdowns at the goal line.

2:42We might talk about a handful of those running backs here.

2:45But that's another thing that I when we get into this, I really want to focus on both like kind of the archetype.

2:51Of the player that we're talking about and how that also informs the overall offensive ecosystem.

2:56So there we're not just talking about 10 players who absolutely do not matter in fantasy.

3:00I promise that is not going to be the show that we are going to have today.

3:05Another promise that I can have for you people out there is that this weekend is going to be the best weekend of your life.

3:12Yes, that's a Matt Harmon guarantee. If there is an if though, if you show up to the Yahoo fantasy draft weekend

3:18presented by verse because it is coming to Dick's house of sport in the Buffalo area on Saturday, August 29th, 3 to 7 p.m.

3:25I'm going to be there. Justin Boone. He is obviously going to be there.

3:29He's a little skip away from the Buffalo area.

3:31All right. Josh Norris is going to be coming along with me to the big event Yahoo fantasy draft weekend.

3:37So if you get ready for your draft, you got some friends.

3:40You have nothing to do on Saturday. You have no friends.

3:43Come down. Make some friends. Okay. We'll be your friends.

3:46Certainly for the weekend for sure because we all love fantasy football.

3:49We all love versed. We all love Dick's house of sport in the Buffalo area and that is where we're going to

3:56be Amherst, New York Saturday, August 29th, 3 p.m.

3:58I will see you there or I will be offended.

4:01The only reason Nate that it's not going to be the best.

4:04I said it's going to be the best weekend of people's lives.

4:08The only thing that could make it better is if you were there, you know, so that's the sad part.

4:13Oh, that's really nice of you. Yeah. Screw you, Colin.

4:16It's just me being there. No, I appreciate it because especially right now.

4:20Good time to get into New York before. Four turns.

4:22Four turns quickly before that weather goes south. No, no, but it's also a great time up there.

4:27Have you been to like upstate New York, western New York at all?

4:31Nope. Ever? Nope. Nope. Only been to New York City.

4:34So this will be a first for me. So I mean, I'm looking forward to it.

4:38I'm gassed up about it. I'm going to like it.

4:41I'm going to like it. I'm going to like it even better.

4:44But they've all moved. They've all moved to Florida because they retired.

4:48But no, classic New Yorkers. No, but it's going to be a great time.

4:52I actually do wish I was going. I'm excited to get my travel cap back on now that my daughter is getting a little bit older.

4:59I've been kind of bobbing and weaving around travel for a while.

5:02But now I'm excited to kind of spread my wings, get back onto the flights again of maybe the spring.

5:08No offense to my family. I love them. Just say I'm excited to do a little bit of a traveling coming up.

5:14Well, I'm certainly excited for it. You know, we got a big game in February.

5:18I'm sure we'll see each other there. There'll be a little bit traveling coming.

5:22You know, the big game as they call it.

5:25Okay, let's waste no more time. Yeah, talk about that.

5:27Right. Let's waste no more time. We got we got a big show here.

5:31We got things to talk through. We got our 10 vultures here.

5:35What is a vulture? This is somebody who is better in real life than they are in fantasy.

5:40When you're watching the games on Sunday, they're going to get some snaps, some targets, some opportunities.

5:44You're going to be ripping your hair out a little bit.

5:48But also for a couple of mine, Nate, I kind of wanted to say like these are the type of players who fulfill a use to the ecosystem.

5:55They bring some that drink. That's your first one.

5:58They bring some value to the ecosystem overall, which actually can help clarify the roles and the opportunities for some of the

6:04other players that you guys actually care about in your fantasy lineups.

6:07But that's not the case for the first one that you I mean, you're starting off aggressive.

6:12You're coming in hot here with your first better in real life player than fantasy football.

6:17We're sticking with running backs here for our first two.

6:19So who's your first one here? I'm going and this is more not the actual player because I'm not a big fan of this player.

6:26It's maybe the role on a team, which is we usually think of a spell back as like the scat back pass catcher type.

6:33But in the Lions system and the Lions offense, they kind of have that true kind of goal line back that short yardage back that pass protection back.

6:41That was David Montgomery. That's been Jamal Williams before that.

6:44They like having the classic one to punch of thunder and lightning.

6:47Jameer Gibbs can do a little bit of everything, but we talked to this on God now.

6:52Truly, the show is merged together at one point recently about Jameer Gibbs.

6:55And I pointed out, too, that he allowed the highest pressure rate of all running backs last year.

7:00David Montgomery is gone. Pacheco is not amazing in pass protection, but I think that like he's still fine enough that that might be his role.

7:08He might vulture the classic vulture of touchdowns. So that's the thing.

7:11As good as Jameer Gibbs is and he is that good, he's going to get a lot of touches.

7:16I still think there will be those moments where I don't know if frustrating is the word, but there will be a

7:22role for whoever the backup running back is. They just had the visit with Kareem Hunt as well, which is kind of

7:29funny that Pacheco and Kareem Hunt have to be paired together.

7:32But that's why I just want to like say this all as backup running backs as opposed to one of those, because

7:38no matter what, there is that role for the two in the Lions backfield.

7:42Well, the Kareem Hunt visit is the one that I almost kind of wanted to dial in on here, because to me,

7:48Nate, when I think about what the Lions do want in the complimentary back, they don't really.

7:53I mean, do they really have a need for a guy like an Isaiah Pacheco who, you know, no disrespect, but is it?

7:59It's like a fine player, a hard runner, the whole deal.

8:02But is he the exact type of gritty short yardage back that David Montgomery has been?

8:07Is he the past protector that David Montgomery has been?

8:09In my opinion, probably not. But you know who is this version of Kareem Hunt?

8:14And that's why when I saw that one go off, I'm immediately thinking not to I shouldn't even say this.

8:19I shouldn't even manifest it. Should not put it out into the universe.

8:23But I mean, yeah, I had the exact reaction here from Obsession that the Yahoo fantasy handle pose, which, by the way, I watched Obsession.

8:30So there's a movie I've seen. Did you watch that?

8:33Yeah, a movie. I really watch. I've watched the Odyssey and Obsession over the last month.

8:37I mean, I'm I'm I'm cooking in terms of the movies.

8:40You already filled your quota. The Odyssey was your quota for movies for three hours worth of movie.

8:45And it's like, well, did it. That's it. Pretty much the entire year.

8:49But that was the first time I've been in a movie theater.

8:52Obsession was good. Obsession was good. I really I actually really enjoyed it.

8:56It was it was it was an uncomfortable watch at times, but but a good one.

9:00But this scene, again, if you haven't seen the movie, it's a you've probably seen the meme when she's no, no, no, no, no.

9:07That is I. I had that thought when I saw the Kareem Hunt visit, because like I said, I shouldn't even put this out in the air.

9:14But this is the exact type of vulture that the Lions kind of do need and would certainly not like nobody that

9:21drafts Jameer Gibbs at number one overall would enjoy seeing a cream hunt sign here.

9:25Yeah, I think there's gonna be those moments where people are gonna be mad that that also there's cream hunt in the

9:31one yard touchdown has eight carries for 18 yards or 21 yards, but one touchdown.

9:35And Jameer Gibbs finished with 17 carries and over 100 yards.

9:38You know, it can lead to that. It's the classic vulture.

9:41It really is. But there this has been something that they have highly valued.

9:45They know Gibbs is gonna be a big engine for them.

9:48They want to rebuild that run game that lacked a lot of efficiency last year.

9:52Cream hunt for some of his warts has been Mr.

9:55Efficient in that chief's offense. It's just that he hasn't been explosive at all.

9:59So, yeah, no, I really do think that this is gonna be a very real role on this team.

10:04It just yeah, it's just how much how much are they gonna eat into it?

10:09But do you think it's gonna be real? Yeah, they didn't give Pacheco barely any money whatsoever.

10:13None. Cardinals released Trey Benson earlier this week. Yeah, that to me is like the obvious connection would be, oh, does he follow Drew Petsing to Detroit?

10:21But that's not really the type of skill set.

10:23Yeah, that's yeah. Jameer Gibbs is like the Hulk version of what Trey Benson theoretically should be.

10:28They kind of need a James Conner grinder short yardage pass protection back.

10:32And, you know, it's a little bit like, all right, it's last call.

10:35Got to get somebody here. And that might be Kareem Hunt, essentially.

10:39Yep, I think so. Oh, man, no, the James Conner connection is, I mean, more real.

10:43But I care. Jeremiah loves injury probably might slow that down slightly.

10:47But, you know, they feel okay if they're getting rid of Trey Benson, you know, as far as what Conner's health is or what that back.

10:54They're talking about the Cardinals right now, too. That's a good shot.

10:57But I mean, it's like anyway, I'm trying to even just think who else might get pinched in some backfields.

11:03You know, you look at Washington and like what's going to go on with their backfield and everything like just like someone might get dropped off for there.

11:11So, yeah, I just think that you just keep an eye out for whoever they end up going with in this backfield for the Lions.

11:18But also, I just think if you have Gibbs, I know Gibbs is going at one or two at worst.

11:23Yeah. Really keep an eye out for this because otherwise would a Kareem Hunt signing?

11:27Would a Kareem Hunt signing just brass tacks like cause you to flip B.

11:31John Gibbs because right now consensus ranking is pretty much everywhere.

11:34It's Gibbs number one B. John number two, and it's been a pretty hard and fast like one, two.

11:40I know for me personally, I don't think it would be enough, but it at least is something to think about.

11:45Would that cause you to maybe flip a Robinson and a Gibbs here?

11:49It would just I would still stick with Gibbs slightly, but it has always been at one.

11:54And anyone beefed me because I just think Bajan is just like more bulletproof in the weirdest way because of just what

12:00he can do and just his build and everything.

12:02Like, I just think I think he is more no matter what, his situation is going to be fine.

12:08Like Brian Robinson. I think Algier is a better player than Brian Robinson.

12:11I think just their situation to a little bit more diverse run game a little bit could be cool as well.

12:17So, man, maybe maybe that out. I'm talking it out.

12:20Maybe, maybe slightly. But I still think Gibbs is the guy just because that offense in Detroit's gonna be phenomenal.

12:26And Atlanta might be starting my guy Jack Strand from Minnesota Moorhead.

12:29You know, that that has to go to account for it.

12:32Yeah. And the Lions defense is gonna be bad this year.

12:35And they play a whole bunch of good weather games.

12:38So it's more just buying into the offense as well.

12:41That's why it wouldn't be enough for me personally.

12:43And honestly, you could even because kind of in our theme here about players who are better in real life than in fantasy.

12:50If this is Kareem Hunt, again, we're almost working in a hypothetical here with our first vulture.

12:54But in a way, you can sort of galaxy brain this to say that.

12:58Well, because Jameer Gibbs, as you pointed out, has gotten better, but it's still kind of not a net positive.

13:04Certainly, let's put it that way in pass protection, having a pass protection back actually might take the offense from being I

13:10think I had them ranked number two or three in our top 10 offenses and like maybe make them the best offense in the league.

13:17If they can just mount some more drives because Jared Goff doesn't get blasted on third down with pass protection.

13:23You know, they punch in some goal line attempts there.

13:25Again, you could sort of galaxy brain it. But but obviously, that's the value you're hoping to get from a player of this archetype.

13:32But it's funny. We actually have a couple of easy transitions here because we've talked Cardinals backfield.

13:37We talked Bijan Robinson, who no longer will be playing with Tyler Algier, but Tyler Algier will be in that Arizona Cardinals backfield.

13:43He's my first player to mention here for this particular if we want to call it award, you know, often players that

13:49are better in real life than in fantasy football.

13:52The funny thing is Tyler Algier has actually had some moments in fantasy.

13:56He's even had a thousand year season on his resume.

13:58He's been a valid flex player for a couple of years.

14:01I've had some good weeks with him just like he's like, all right, I got to play this guy as a flex.

14:08Yeah, but he gets he gets kind of bucketed in that irritating vulture, you know, kind of mold.

14:13My thought has been usually this type of vulture, quote unquote, Nate.

14:16Like if you can't handle Bijan Robinson seeding a few carries to Tyler Algier, you got to get another hobby.

14:21I mean, you got to just be able to live with that.

14:25I've said that's even more so about David Montgomery and Jameer Gibbs.

14:28Like if you're if you rostered Jameer Gibbs last few years and you can't handle like David Montgomery, who's a really quality back getting in there.

14:35I mean, sorry, you got to you. You're not cut out for fantasy football.

14:39I hate to say it, but that's how I feel about Tyler Algier because he's a really good, valid quality player.

14:45He's just never he's not dynamic in the passing game.

14:48I'm curious what you think about like his we've even got a post from you here saying every team with any semblance

14:54of a question mark at the running back position should be calling the Cardinals about Tyler Algier.

14:59Now that's probably not going to happen because, you know, Jeremiah loves dealing with the injuries, although we did.

15:04We did get a video of Jeremiah Love carrying some pizzas up a up a up a flight of stairs.

15:10I think I saw the video on social media.

15:12You know that you know that fantasy Twitter is mega tilted over injuries when I saw a lot of people be like ankles looking good on Jeremiah.

15:20I love carrying. I mean, how many pizzas is that?

15:23I can't be talking because I've been scouring. Daniel Jones Colts videos.

15:26Oh, I know. Have I have I told you that?

15:29Yeah, I think I have told you is that the Colts media social media team started editing, squeezing a lot of those

15:35videos that I can't see the lower body now.

15:37I don't know. I know they listen to the pod Colts dot com.

15:41There's a few members that listen to the pod.

15:44So I don't know. But no, I love the pizza.

15:46The pizza video is great because it reminded me of Nate Burleson when he dropped the pizzas and got hurt.

15:52Remember like in the car? Yeah, that's why I thought that was going because I hadn't seen that video yet.

15:57So that's great. But no, back to Algier. Algier is a coach's favorite to doesn't fumble.

16:02Great protection catches kind of everything. I can't. But like you say, he's not going to like you're not going to run choice routes for him.

16:09He's more just a check down screen guy. I think I just even looked up.

16:13He's 83rd in target rate over the last three years among 103 running backs.

16:17But having said that, he's 13th in success rate per snap.

16:20So when he's on the field, he is just a steady.

16:23He's just above Bucky Irvin, just above Aaron Jones and just below Blake Corum, Josh Jacobs and James Cook.

16:29So he's in great territory. He's going to be.

16:31Yeah, I love how you just put it. If you're not if you can't handle his 30% touches and yeah, he's very effective.

16:38So that's the thing. It's not like it's like, why are you giving this guy all these?

16:42Oh, you're wasting a whole series with these carries.

16:45It's like, no, he's a good player. It's actually frustrating for me as a and we're talking about real football sense again.

16:51I've never understood his market. Actually, the Cardinals have a few guys like that.

16:55Roy Lopez, who we talked about yesterday. I just don't understand these guys markets and Algiers supposed to be a great guy.

17:01But yeah, that's a sidebar conversation. But no, he's going to have a role.

17:05He's good at everything, too. As far as short yardage, he can handle early down work.

17:10He's got the pass protection stuff. So he's going to have a role on this team.

17:14They're going to it's going to be like Blake Corum last year with Kyron Williams.

17:18I think where he has that 30% share, just like he had with Bajon and Elena.

17:23Yeah, he's kind of the Pierre Thomas guy for me, where I always thought with Pierre Thomas.

17:27Just dating back to his time with the New Orleans.

17:30And it's like, man, he's just a good running back.

17:33Good runner. I thought with Pierre Thomas. And I mean, obviously, let's be clear.

17:37I wasn't doing the deepest of deep scouting work back in the day when he was playing for the New Orleans Saints.

17:43But just I thought he was good player. Good back.

17:46And somebody that was also like you said, he's going to catch everything that's thrown his way.

17:51He's just not necessarily going to be the guy that you run the choice routes with.

17:55If that was obviously like, you know, there were plenty of different backs doing that for the New Orleans Saints.

18:01Yeah, Sproles. Back in the day. Yeah, plenty, plenty of guys.

18:04Right. However, when you think about a Pierre Thomas type, he was never truly that guy in fantasy.

18:09But he had like 909 scrimmage yards, 1095 yards from scrimmage, 987.

18:12I mean, there he definitely had some moments. Right.

18:15And I think there was like an outcome for Tyler Algier to be that guy.

18:19But he just kind of got stuck in this.

18:21He had a thousand yards as a rookie for Arthur Smith and a pretty good run game.

18:26And then they're like, yeah, but we can get like even better than that.

18:30And that was essentially where they got B. John Robinson.

18:33And my question to you that I wanted to ask you specifically about this archetype of fantasy vulture, better in real life, whatever player.

18:39I love this player. Really fond of him. We've talked about him on the pod.

18:44We've had him on the pod. I know you have been excited about this player.

18:48I kind of think this is the destiny for Broncos rookie running back Jonah Coleman, too, is to be probably a Pierre Thomas type.

18:54Where, look, if the Broncos offense went as wild as the Saints, maybe he could have a few thousand yards from scrimmage,

19:01900 yards from scrimmage type of seasons. But I can also see a destiny where he's a Tyler Algier.

19:06You know, people who watch running backs, watch them like we do.

19:09And you talk about them from a man good decision making standpoint.

19:13They catch everything. They're good in pass protection, which is basically the Jonah Coleman scouting report.

19:17We talk about him on this fantasy show, but he never truly becomes like a real fantasy football difference maker.

19:23I mean, I kind of can see that future for a guy like Jonah Coleman.

19:27Totally. No, I would say Coleman's got God. No, they're actually very, very similar.

19:31And it's again, it's the type of running back I always fall for because I just think they're high floor back.

19:37Like, that's the best way to put it. High floor, low ceiling back.

19:40Coach's favorite. They can play every role where you're just like, OK, they're not.

19:44Sometimes they don't move the needle completely, but they're not negative.

19:47And sometimes when you have a team that has a lot more like, OK, guys, aces out there, those are the best players for you.

19:54It's like, we don't need you to be a star.

19:57Just do your job. No, Coleman. I mean, champagne won't shut up about him.

20:01Davis Webb won't shut up about him. So it's like one of those.

20:05And also, you just look. That's more of an opportunity backfield, too, with the Broncos, because, you know, RJ Harvey is just going to have his role.

20:12And then I think J.K. Dobbins is always a ticking time bomb.

20:15So it's just that's where I think Coleman has a role.

20:18But that's. Yeah. Like Coleman's going to be the guy that's like he's always going to leave you wanting just a little bit more.

20:25And he's always going to need another guy with a little bit more juice in that backfield, which is supposed to be Harvey in theory.

20:32But we'll see down the road. But no, that's no.

20:35That's a great comparison. It really is. Might be relevant this year, though.

20:39Might be. Oh, yeah, he might be. But like I said, Tyler, his year had a thousand yards in his rookie season

20:45and gave people some weeks in fantasy. Touchdowns, too.

20:47Didn't you have like eight touchdowns, too? Yeah. Yeah.

20:50I can't. I can't remember off the top of my head.

20:53I love to have an old year that rookie year.

20:56That was one of my favorites. One of my favorite fantasy stashes ever, like stash waiver stashes ever.

21:01And I feel like Jonah Coleman could have one of those seasons this year.

21:05But then it's like, as Hayden Winks has said on the show previously, it's like a little bit of a, well, you

21:11know, he he might not necessarily he'll get talked about.

21:13It's like, oh, you got to pick this guy up off the waiver wire.

21:17He's an immediate running back. One of J.K. Dobbins gets hurt.

21:20But he's more just really good running back to I think type.

21:24If not, also, then he has that. Let's just we're living in a hypothetical world where, yeah, Dobbins misses five games or something like that.

21:31He has something this, that and the other. OK, he has a good stretch.

21:35But then the Broncos still upgrade on him in the offseason.

21:38And you think about that from like a dynasty fantasy football perspective there.

21:41So, yeah, I think this is a really good archetype of better in real life player that people need to know, because

21:48especially for this show, which I'm proud that we are this show in the fantasy space where we kind of toe the line between real life and fantasy.

21:55We can sometimes maybe over index. I know I certainly do.

21:58I'm right there with you. I love the coach's favorite back of the Pierre Thomas award winner.

22:03I love those backs. I've been high on Algier previously.

22:06I'm really high on Coleman. But again, just a little disclaimer for these guys when it comes to fantasy upside.

22:12But with that, we are going to take our first quick break.

22:15We come back. We're going to get into a couple of wide receivers, two very different wide receivers.

22:20We'll get into that right after this. All right, we're back.

22:23Next guy up here, Nate, is a member of the Chicago Bears, which we have talked.

22:27I feel like talk the Bears to death. Okay, since the end of the regular season from a fantasy standpoint, my keep

22:34saying all your Bears just draft them all, baby.

22:36Let's go. But I probably have only brought this player's name up in relation to the guy that they drafted in the

22:42third round this year, who I think is his future replacement.

22:45But yes, let's get into your next guy here.

22:48That's better in real life than fantasy. It was great, too, because as I put him in the dock, producer Colin was like, hey, what about this guy?

22:56And I was like, ah, I got him in there.

22:58And that's Khalif Raymond, who another coach's favorite, a Ben Johnson favorite.

23:02But every coach has loved him when he was in Tennessee.

23:05Arthur Smith. They loved him like they always had a role.

23:08There goes to Detroit. It was always a signing.

23:10I really liked because I was like, why isn't this guy getting more of a role?

23:15He just kind of fills every gap. He for a guy of his build is also able to do a lot more dirty work stuff.

23:22I mean, this is a great quote from Ben Johnson.

23:25That's exactly right. He's most selfless player I've ever been around.

23:28That's how he plays. But he actually has some juice.

23:31You know, usually these guys are these scrappy, burly, slow Jonah Coleman's Tyler.

23:34How old years at running back old Robert Woods, you know, those types of players, not a guy with actual twitch.

23:40That's been a returner that has those types of things.

23:43So he's just it's hard to describe this because I think Loveland and those two receivers are going to have roles no matter what.

23:50But also you have guys that have injury history at Dunes.

23:53Now, I think Burns has battled some stuff as well.

23:55Loveland battled stuff last year and in college. So but Raymond's Mr.

23:59Reliable. So he just kind of always is going to be relevant.

24:02Ben Johnson designs touches for him. Yeah, at least he did in Detroit, like loves designing some like special touches for him.

24:08So just another guy that's where he's like, he's he's your ideal number three.

24:12If you have a top three of Loveland and two receivers, you know, number three receiver, I should say.

24:17But he's your best kind of auxiliary player fills every role.

24:21Got enough juice that you don't mind the ball going his way.

24:24And I think that's going to happen sometimes. I mean, remember how many third downs the keyist was getting last year?

24:30Like Johnson doesn't care. He's going to go to what he thinks is reliable.

24:34It's going to work. So. I said last year when they signed.

24:37I know I tweeted this out there like people can find that when they signed Alameda Zaccheaus and then they signed Devin Duvernay last year.

24:44I was like, oh, yeah, people keep talking about like who's going to be the next.

24:48I'm on Ross St. Brown in this offense is like, no, Ben Johnson's clearly looking for the next version of Khalif Raymond in this offense.

24:55And then one year later, he's like, forget it.

24:58I'm just going to go get me the real version.

25:01I'll just get the real thing. And like I said, I'm pretty sure they drafted Xavier Thomas to be like the next Khalif Raymond, which number one.

25:08I mean, for Khalif Raymond. Seems like. Yeah. Oh, they do.

25:11You thought he was interesting, but they've been. I might be wrong, but at least the last time I checked in on

25:17him, it's been very positive, at least around Thomas.

25:20Yeah, especially during OTAs in mini camp, you know, when, of course, a speed guy like that is going to thrive.

25:26But no, I think he's got some real juice from Xavier Thomas.

25:29He could be the long term three here. But I mean, for a Khalif Raymond standpoint, I mean, see, there it is.

25:35There's look at the producers here. Instantly found. I know they're on it, man.

25:39They're looking for their Khalif Raymond type. And now he's got the real version of it.

25:44But yeah, I mean, Raymond had a couple of seasons, you know, with Tennessee Titans, like 3.15 yards per route run.

25:50Super small sample size, but still 3.15 yards per route run.

25:531.911 with the Lions. 2.08 with the Lions. He's definitely been.

25:56It's fallen off a little bit. And again, I think these speed guys do shine there.

26:00There's two guys that get maybe a little overhyped in training camp.

26:04And I talk about this a lot. It's the contested catch types.

26:07Jacoby Lane is proving me right on a daily basis.

26:10Our boy Denzel Boston is proving me right on a daily basis.

26:13And then a guy like this, the speed little fast guys in the padless practices.

26:17The beat writers usually always over gas these guys up.

26:20Not to say they're not going to be good NFL players.

26:23So I think all of those players I talked about are going to be good NFL players to some degree.

26:29Khalif Raymond already has been. Honestly, Nate, from a fantasy standpoint, this is actually the perfect type of receiver to be the

26:35third receiver for a team where we want a concentrated target tree.

26:38Because Raymond is never going to be a highly, highly involved player with the 2021 Detroit Lions.

26:43He had a career high 71 targets that year.

26:45And it pretty much went down every single season since.

26:48And that's kind of how it goes for a guy like this where he's super useful.

26:53And even to the point that I've talked about the sacrificial X receiver, Nate.

26:57This is kind of like the sacrificial speed. Not like the sacrificial off ball player.

27:01You know, I've talked about Jimmy Horn being one of these guys, but it's almost like good for an offense to have

27:07a player like this because it opens up the vertical stuff without them having to sacrifice the X like a Roma Dunze

27:13or the when Colson Lovell incredibly lines up at X.

27:16So I know that was like a long diatribe about this.

27:19But yeah, I kind of like this actually being this is one of my favorite third receiver archetypes right now.

27:24Same. And he also it's a three and D guy in basketball.

27:28He can take he can attack vertically and he block and do the scrappy stuff.

27:32So it's like that's you need these role players around your stars because he can play inside outside.

27:37He can because he can take the top off.

27:40Then you know where the ball usually goes the intermediate areas.

27:43So then the guys that you want in those juicy touches, the Roman Duzes, the Luther Burns, the Colson Lovelins, they get the juicy touches.

27:50Shanahan, the Shanahan offenses have always liked these types of guys.

27:53And then Sean Payton has always had this kind of archetype that he goes after.

27:57He likes everybody in these kind of roles like you are the speed guy.

28:01You do this. And I do this to you every single time.

28:04I always forget the guy's name. The 2016 Falcons had a little undersized guy that takes the top off the defense.

28:10And I tell you every single time. Thank you.

28:13And that's the guy that is the ideal speed burner.

28:15Open it up for everybody else guy. And also I think about two with Cleef Raymond was Tennessee Titans days.

28:21He played in those kind of heavy personnel packages with Arthur Smith, with A.J.

28:25Brown, you know, with Corey Davis. And he was the third guy, the speed guy.

28:29This is an offense that's going to just drafted another tight end.

28:32They're going to leave in those heavy personnels. They're going to live in 12.

28:36They're going to do 22. I bet you there's some concepts where they go one receiver on the field and it's Khalif Raymond.

28:43And Colson Loveland split out. Love running the over.

28:45And Raymond's running the deep route. And he might get a target on that.

28:49But I bet you there's going to be a play with that.

28:52No, he's going to have a role. It's just.

28:55And I justifiably. He's like the Tyrell Algear of receivers.

28:58It's like. It's like. That's. That's kind of how it is.

29:01There's. He's a deserved coach's favorite. And like I said, just to hammer the fantasy point home here.

29:06I love when this is the third receiver on a team, because, again, you're going to get some looks.

29:11You can live with that. But when we look up at the end of the season, he'll probably have.

29:16Not even a 10 percent target share, and that's going to mostly go to the guys that we actually are drafting in fantasy.

29:23But he will make the offense better because of the roles that he can play here.

29:27I'm going to skew in a complete different receiver direction with this next player that I'm going to nominate here.

29:33And I'm going to say 80 Mitchell not only is a better real life than fantasy player, even though he's kind of

29:39a very up and down real life player. Yeah.

29:42But I also think this this is like just a fascinating archetype of receiver to talk about in this regard.

29:47And I actually think he's a good late round pick in fantasy this year.

29:51There's a, you know, I think he's a good late round pick in fantasy.

29:55But I do always just wonder about the target ceiling of this type of player where the flashes are excellent.

30:01And I hear so here's his reception perception man coverage zone coverage press coverage splits.

30:05Press coverage 82nd percentile success rate. Awesome man coverage 65th percentile success rate versus zone coverage.

30:09Sixth percentile. And this is like the this is this type of X receiver.

30:13Doesn't this make a lot of sense? I mean, you scouted him in college.

30:17I felt that this was the exact that's a more of a funhouse mirrors version of it.

30:22But this was the exact type of player that he was a prospect.

30:25He was as a rookie with the Colts. And he's definitely this type of player, obviously, with the New York Jets and

30:32a little bit with the Colts last year as well.

30:34And these type of guys, I think the flashes are always there and they are actually helpful to the offense because you

30:40he's one of the rare receivers neighbors. Like, I don't need to see him do anything other than just play X.

30:46I don't need to see him in the slot.

30:49I don't need to see him run an option because of that success rate versus zone.

30:53That's just like not his strength. But you line it up and just say, hey, go win against press man coverage.

30:59And obviously, he needs to be a little bit better at the catch point.

31:03That's for sure. But, you know, make plays down the football field.

31:06Great. We're going to help the offense in that regard.

31:09And that's going to also then allow us to move around our superstar receiver, have a clear cut slot, which I think they're going to have this year.

31:17So, yeah, I just like this player helps an offense in real life.

31:21It also can be productive when you throw them the football.

31:24He's actually had like a high targets per route run over his career, but from a consistently putting up fantasy production, I

31:30do kind of think that can that maybe is a little bit hit or miss.

31:34Oh, yeah, no, but he could be that late season, midseason dart throw where you need you got some bye weeks going on schedule stuff injuries.

31:41Watch him the preseason as well. I have been a guy, you know, everybody had to pick a Texas guy when they came out.

31:48It was him or Xavier Worthy. And if anyone's followed my scouting, I'm probably not going to prefer the guy that's 160 pounds.

31:54So it's like it was pretty, you know, default.

31:57But I did think that Mitchell, though, had a lot of twitch and was one of those guys that was an eye test guy over underlying stats.

32:04And also you had to understand the frustrations with him, which is why he was trade fodder.

32:09And you see that with his play. The Jets situation was the most consistent I've ever seen him play.

32:15And they probably just streamlined his role. And they're just like, hey, we can't give you a big playbook anyways.

32:20You got traded midseason. All right, run this. I watched him the preseason.

32:24It's so funny how you just listed all those stats.

32:27And I could tweet out a three play sequence where he has two catches in the preseason.

32:31And then he has a third play where they run a stick concept, which is a very simple concept.

32:37So one guy runs a quick out. One guy runs a flat.

32:40Everybody runs it. You've seen it. Even if you don't know what that concept is, you've seen it 500 times this preseason because everybody runs it.

32:47Aidy Mitchell has a botch on it. And that's where I'm like, therein lies the rub.

32:52Why he can't beat zone is because when he has to work in combo with somebody else, he blacks out.

32:57And like, yeah. If they change personnel groupings and like maybe he has to be the F or the X or Z or something like that.

33:04And they change the formation and get to a funky formation.

33:08I can see his brain pop. Some guys are just like that.

33:11They just don't have that kind of like the spatial figuring that out.

33:15And that's exactly him in a nutshell. It was two awesome plays.

33:18He's like, he beats, he runs a comeback, torches this guy man to man.

33:22And it's like, oh, there we go, A.D. Yeah.

33:24And then it's like three plays later, against zone, he botches his route.

33:28And it's like, yep, this is A.D. Mitchell in a nutshell.

33:31So he's going to be a splat, just like he was with the Jets last year.

33:35He had those games where he had like three plays, 100 yards, touchdown.

33:39And then there's going to be games where it's one catch on seven targets.

33:43And it would be so frustrating. But I do think there's so much talent here.

33:47It's just, God, it's just not really the great team situation.

33:50Having said all this, the Jets actually looked decent in preseason.

33:53Oh, they looked great in preseason. They looked actually good.

33:56And it was very real good. Like it wasn't just like, you know, they're running really good plays and everybody else is running basic stuff.

34:03The players actually look pretty decent. Gino's operating decent.

34:06The whole line looked okay. Yeah, I don't know.

34:08They could be an interesting, fancy bad team. But again, it's the Jets.

34:12It's the fell for it again award. I don't want to be that guy.

34:16Totally. I saw Garrett Wilson saying today that he's going to look back with like a lot of fondness about this Frank

34:22Reich offense one day, which is, by the way, kind of similar to what he said about Mike LaFleur's offense many years ago.

34:28And I'm like, it's a little funny that number one, clearly Garrett's never looking back with fondness on the Aaron Rodgers, you know, Nathaniel Hackett offense experience.

34:36That's number one. Number two, I'm like, Garrett, you're already sounding like, you know, you know, our buddy Kevin Clark says pre-fired,

34:42you know, you're like, you're talking like about Frank Reich as if he's pre-fired.

34:46You're already pre-fired. Someday I'm going to look back on this in fondness.

34:49But yeah, I think that there's definitely something to that.

34:52I mean, is Geno Smith like this year's the quarterback reclamation project that he's been before?

34:57Like this year, Sam Darnold, you know, something like that.

35:00I think it's possible. This year's Baker Mayfield. This year's Geno Smith.

35:03Yeah, this year's Geno Smith. We've had that. Yeah, we've had that guy before.

35:07And I definitely think that is possible. Just to close the loop on Aidy Mitchell, though, I will say, you know, he

35:13is a more exaggerated version than this player. But the guy that I compared him to as a prospect and this player

35:19also had very similar success rate splits early on his career.

35:22This was like what George Pickens was early, early on with the Steelers where yes, when you lined him up in a

35:28combative and some guys just come alive like this, like combative man press coverage situations, the best would come out of him.

35:34But you ask him to run routes against zone.

35:37It's like, oh, my God, where's the pace? It's an ISO ball.

35:40Yeah, exactly. Watch a basketball player that only think that thinks everything's one on one and they're great at they think everything's

35:46Kobe or MJ and hey, it's like late 90s, early 2000s NBA, like everything's ISO ball.

35:51But it's and so that's an X. That's how traditional X lives.

35:54But now everyone runs cloud and cover two and quarters and three.

35:58And so now it's like you have to work in unison.

36:01You have to move around the formation. You have to run routes and combos with guys.

36:05And that's where you can see some of these guys not understand that.

36:09Oh, I have to get to this depth on a dig route because I have to help out the underneath route.

36:15I have to get to this depth on the corner route because I have to help out the other route.

36:20I'm working in unison with some guys like Pickens.

36:23I'm an X. I'm winning against you, man. One on one.

36:26Like, let's go, baby. And so, yeah, some guys just don't maybe see the big picture.

36:30Pickens maybe saw a little bit of a bigger picture.

36:33Maybe he gets into a situation where he got forced to see the talent shine.

36:37Yeah, I think so. And that can be part of it, too.

36:41But even still, like Pickens just follows the general pattern of better in man impressed than in zone.

36:46Even last year, it's just he's gotten a little like a little bit better every year.

36:50And so that's what 80 needs to do. He needs to not be sixth percentile.

36:54He needs to be 35th percentile or something. And then we're golden.

36:58But even if he doesn't do that, I think he's still a really good real life player for the Jets.

37:03And he was on the line of scrimmage on ball.

37:06Eighty seven percent of the snaps I charted in twenty twenty five.

37:09It looks like preseason so far. He's just still that X receiver.

37:13So that's good for him. It's good for the Jets offense.

37:16And it's definitely good for Garrett Wilson. So we like to see that.

37:19We got two Jaguars to talk about here in our next grouping, Nate.

37:23I've got tight end Brenton Strange. We can kind of loop this together.

37:27But you have LaQuint Allen. Tell the people why LaQuint Allen is a better real life player than a fantasy player, which I think this is perfect.

37:34Yeah, this is like I think the epitome of this, because I don't think LaQuint Allen will ever be totally fancy relevant ever.

37:41He is, again, saying the coach's catnip, coach's favorite to a T special teams ace, one of the best pass protection backs

37:47as soon as he entered the league, which is really cool for a rookie to be that good that early.

37:52Earn the coach's trust right away. It's remarkable when you see a late round running back get reps over a former first

37:58round pick who just got paid highly this offseason.

38:01And Travis A. Chan got his name right finally.

38:03So that is significant that that's how much faith they had in this day three running back, which also speaks to the coaches to do that.

38:11But he is a guy that's going to always have a role.

38:14We're going to all year to Rodriguez. Rodriguez is kind of part of this, too.

38:18He's a better real life player. Like he's not the most exciting player, but he's the jab of this offense is that of those three backs.

38:26I know Allen's role the most. Like I know what he is going to do and he's going to get 15 to 20 percent snaps.

38:32He's short yardage. I think that's going to be Rodriguez.

38:35But yeah, you can just even see my tweet right here.

38:38But no, he is just going to always have that 20, 15 to 20 percent snap share because he'll be on the

38:45field on third down until Tootin can maybe show that a little bit more this year because obviously he has a little bit more juice.

38:51But yeah, he is the epitome of a way better in real life player than in a role player than a fancy role of a guy.

38:59And this is so perfect, too, because I kind of think fantasy analysts I've seen have almost kind of started to over

39:05discuss the impact of a of a LaQuinn Allen in the backfield.

39:08Like he definitely matters. He's going to be a part of this.

39:12But this isn't what I would call like a three headed monster because he is truly just there to block.

39:17I mean, he's not even a special. He's not he's like a passing down back, but he's not a pass catching back last year.

39:24He was 47th in snaps on passing plays last year at the running back position, which is pretty again, very impressive for

39:30a for a rookie, you know, like unheralded guy, the whole deal.

39:33But he caught 10 passes that was outside of the top 60 at the running back position.

39:38So he's that sort of shows it like 47 snaps on passing plays.

39:42He ran a route on fewer than 30 percent of the 22 percent of the time he's running around on the dropbacks there on passing plays.

39:49So like he's not a factor in the passing game whatsoever.

39:52He's literally there just to stonewall dudes and keep Trevor Lawrence upright, which is great.

39:56We actually really want that to happen. You know, he's one of these and I just had this kind of light bulb moment.

40:03It's like if you have a Jags, if you're invested in the Jags backfield at all, just be real.

40:08And maybe you're like, OK, I don't know if this is a toot week and maybe you have a couple other good

40:14options and everything is really schedule dependent. Are they playing a blitzing team?

40:18Are they playing the Broncos? I'm going to shy away from toot a little bit because Alan's going to get more snaps,

40:24you know, like, all right, if I'm playing the the Browns, I don't think will be too funky.

40:29The Eagles, not very funky. You know, those Browns in week one, I think this this season.

40:34Yeah, that's a new defense in week one. And so that'd be my best advice.

40:38Like it's like that. It's really kind of some schedule there where Alan gets more snaps against the funkier defenses like, you know, the Colts.

40:45Lou Anna Rumo's crazy stuff on third down might not be the I don't think they'll be able to stop the run

40:51this year, but it's really about third down. Alan might have more snaps because Anna Rumo can do some funky stuff.

40:57So that'd be my little kind of like kernel of advice, I guess, with this backfield.

41:01Sometimes where Alan could have an outsized role depending on who they play against.

41:05We're definitely going to keep our eyes on that one.

41:08That's a really good trend to point out. Nate, okay.

41:11The Jaguars podcast. We have two podcasts. Between our between our two.

41:14Like we're just Yahoo Sports is actually the official Jaguars media outlet of the national media escape to fall sports, baby.

41:20Okay. My guy was Brenton strange the inline tight end who somehow has become an inline tight end, even though I know

41:26you didn't think he was going to be that guy.

41:29I didn't think he was going to be that guy, but he's on a pretty solid contract extension.

41:34And now at this point, like strange is a guy that people are not drafting really in fantasy from an ADP perspective.

41:40You know, he's not up there. I don't nobody's really ranking him as like a super draftable player, you know, which is totally understandable.

41:47I mean, he goes off the board tight end 21 in Yahoo fantasy drafts.

41:51You know, nobody's really drafting Brenton strange at this point, but really valuable player.

41:55He's going to help. Like I, I, I kind of like his movement blocking stuff even maybe better than the true inline stuff, which is really cool.

42:02Liam Cohen likes to make use of that player.

42:05I kind of think Brenton strange is sort of going to settle into maybe a rich man's from a production standpoint, real

42:11life impact, whatever, but like a rich man's Kate Otten, which is essentially the guy that like when we, if we have

42:17wide receiver injuries, we can use this guy. We're going to get him in a, he'll help us out of a pinch.

42:23But for the most part, he just kind of brings the offense to life overall, even if he's not a passing, like a huge volume player.

42:30He, and honestly, so this is what I've gathered to, and this is kind of getting lost in the sauce.

42:36Cause I'm part of this too, like trying to figure out the receiver room and then, and I'm excited about the receiver.

42:42I'm excited about the Jags in general. Uh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,

42:48the, the, the, I've been told was with Brent strange in mind.

42:52And this makes total sense to open him up, to get into those more tight end looks and to get him.

42:57I sewed up a choice routes, get him where he can be the move guy and be the slot essentially, or, you

43:04know, the adjuster in a 12 personnel look. So that's what I've been told.

43:07So it's more than those things where, again, the J this is a, excuse me, in a real football sense, the Jags are very well situated this year.

43:15Um, they can pivot to a lot of different things.

43:18Fantasy sense. It's going to be very frustrating. Um, unless you have Trevor Lawrence, that's kind of, that's it though.

43:24That's the tape. That's the hub. That that's the tape right there.

43:27You've ever taught me about fancy. Sometimes it's just like, Oh, who do I want this?

43:31Just fricking draft the quarterback. Just, just get the hub of the offense because they're good.

43:36They're better in real football. And it's going to be frustrating.

43:39Fancy wise, but there's going to be games where all these guys are going to pop off, but it's like, do you

43:45want to really pick it and really go through that stress every week?

43:49Just get the quarterback that can run a little bit too.

43:52Yeah, totally. I mean, career highs across the board as a rusher.

43:55Yeah. For me, he's definitely somebody that, um, I've really, I think I rank him either first or second in that tier

44:01of quarterbacks that I love to draft this year.

44:04Uh, Trevor Lawrence. So I ended up with him a lot.

44:07He's definitely someone that I'm really excited about. And yeah, it's just like Brent strange is good.

44:12The Nate Borkert your pick is interesting in terms of what the personnel packages that they can get into.

44:17They figured out the right role for Parker Washington.

44:19You know, Jacoby Myers is still rock solid. BTJ.

44:22I think can be a better player than he was last year.

44:25Coach's favorite. Yep. And then the guy that can, the guy that can just get them all the football is Trevor Lawrence.

44:31So, you know, he's the one that's going to be serving these dishes up, you know, slinging it from the kitchen and putting it on the table.

44:39So like, just get this guy here. Uh, essentially I'm pretty excited about Charles.

44:43But yeah, strange is good. I strange is a good player.

44:46If I sat down and ranked NFL tight ends, he would not come up at tight end 21 or tight end 24.

44:52But that's again, where, where he's drafted, uh, right now.

44:55So, all right, we are going to take a quick break here.

44:58We've come back. We got two more wide receivers.

45:01We get into the power slot territory on the other side and get into that right after this.

45:06All right. We're back as promised. I mean, the people were going crazy before the break.

45:10They're like power slot talk with Harmon and Tice.

45:13My God, this should, that should be the whole 90 minutes here.

45:16Um, I actually think people, there's definitely a segment of people.

45:19And by the way, they're kind of right about this.

45:22Um, where, when I call somebody a power slot, there's, there's like power slot, complimentary power slot derogatory.

45:27And people get mad at me for the derogatory one.

45:30When you're like, just say the guy stinks that you, you just say, you don't like him.

45:35I'm like, well, actually this is my, what I view Nate.

45:38I'm sorry. I'm ranting right off the top here.

45:40When a good, that's great. Would allow you to talk.

45:43I agree with, um, sometimes when it is my way I view what I do with, with like to peel the curtain

45:49back with reception perception is like, look, let's look at the player's profile and like, try to find how this could work.

45:55And you know, this is like the key on Coleman corollary.

45:58It's like, well, that's not going to work at X receiver.

46:01So I think he could be a big slot.

46:04You're like, people are like, well, just tell me he stinks.

46:07Like, well, he's going to stink if they use him the wrong way, but if they find the right way to use

46:13him, which is what my goal, I'm just what I'm trying to do.

46:17Then I can also tell you like, and they do that and ain't going to, it ain't going to work out.

46:23Okay. Um, that's, that's the way it is. So you, that's how you take the actual information.

46:27But I do think when it does work out for those players that it's like power slot complimentary it could, well, but

46:33it works out for the guys, like the two, the players that we're going to talk about right now, which is Jawan Jennings.

46:40Who's your guy and Pat Bryant, who is my guy.

46:43I basically, you went with like the old version.

46:45I went with the new version of this player.

46:48Here's the funny part about Jawan Jennings though, Nate, and I'll throw it to you with this.

46:52I have actually, well, I've been shocked. Not, I actually don't think he's going to be fantasy relevant whatsoever this year.

46:58No, not this, but, but people are like drafting him as if he will be.

47:03It's kind of crazy. Like when I look at my rankings versus Yahoo ADP, he is the one that I am most out of line with.

47:10Um, at times he has been like actually drafted on the platform.

47:13It's kind of going down at this point overall.

47:16But for me, I just, I don't think he's going to be relevant at all this year from a fantasy standpoint, but

47:22I do think he's going to help the Vikings.

47:24So talk to us about that. Yeah. He is one of the best blocking receivers in the league period, you know, on the podium.

47:31And that's a role that this Vikings team has needed.

47:34They've needed a power slot for a few years now.

47:37Like I always liked the Addison pick. I was fine with it, but he's never going to be able to play in

47:43the slot and you don't want Jefferson could be actually a great power slot, but you don't want to, you don't pay.

47:49Justin Jefferson is one of the best receivers in the league.

47:52I'm not going to have them do all the dirty work stuff.

47:55You know, uh, it's just not, not how you use those guys.

47:59So I just thought of how they've used these condensed formations over the years.

48:03This is a role that this offense is needed.

48:05And they got one of the best ones at it.

48:08Who's also one of the best receivers on third down.

48:11So it's just that, again, that three and D player, he's not the vertical guy, which I usually use that for, but

48:17just the effective, put a screen setter in this offense.

48:20If we want to use the basketball analogies, analogies like the rebounder.

48:23Um, but I do think that this opens up everything for Addison, for Jefferson, for, I guess, Hockinson, but I also think

48:29that in a real football sense that this eases Hockinson's role.

48:32But another thing though, is I can see some really cool looks of this offense getting into 11 personnel with Josh Oliver as the tight end hint.

48:40Also spoiling later guy, but Josh Oliver being on there and then running the ball and being effective and affecting the running game in a positive way.

48:47So Jennings is going to have a role. He's going to do dirty work stuff.

48:51I, I, I don't think he'll be fancy relevant this year unless Addison gets hurt, which is a possibility.

48:57Uh, but also the other thing is where he would operate as a power slot is over the middle.

49:02Well, guess where Kyler Murray does not throw is over the middle.

49:05So where it is. A lot of the balls go a lot of outbreakers, but that opens up Addison being the Z

49:11on the outbreak or already have seen it this preseason.

49:14Um, it opens up those roles, a lot of movement throws for, for, um, Kyler Murray.

49:19So yeah, I Jennings, I think is this type of guy who in a real football sense, I love him, but I

49:25think that projected stats we even had for him is like, yep, that's probably what he'll finish with with this year.

49:31And, but in a real, but he'll be my play 60% plus percent of the snaps, but would not just be fancy

49:37effective at all, but he's going to help everybody else.

49:40He's gonna be a boost effect for everybody else.

49:42Yeah. And that's kind of what I wanted to dive in on here because this is, it's kind of similar with Pat

49:48Bryant too, where I'm really obsessed with thinking about these third receivers who just help clarify and allow like roles to be a little bit more diverse.

49:56I was kind of hoping Isaac Tesla was going to be this guy for the, uh, for the lines this year.

50:02And he still could be from an alignment perspective.

50:04It just sounds like he hasn't been separating in, in camp like consistently, which he didn't separate last year.

50:10He made cool plays and occasionally read out zones well on big breaking routes, which is what he did in college.

50:15So it's like, well, the congratulations lines. That's the guy you drafted.

50:19That's what, what did you expect? That's what I was going to say.

50:22Which doesn't lie. Yeah, that's cool. That's cool though, for your auxiliary third receiver, you know, because actually I think this type

50:29of guy and Bryant is this way and, uh, Jawan Jennings is this way.

50:32These bigger guys who can be the on ball slot receiver allows you to do so much with that Z or in

50:39the lions case actually can allow them because St.

50:41Brown is an elite receiver. And now, in my opinion, he can separate so well off the line of scrimmage on these quicker routes.

50:48You can almost play him on ball and get James Williams moving around the formation, which he's had to be that stuck on the line of scrimmage player.

50:56So it's just, I'm obviously I think about this stuff way too much, but because of the rules of the sport folks,

51:02like two players have to line up on ball and they can't be, and they can't be next to each other because

51:08that is what they call it a legal formation.

51:10So you got to figure that out somehow. And I, these like big bodied, not highly targeted players.

51:15And I think, I do think Pat Bryant ends up settling into this Jawan Jennings archetype, which is totally fine.

51:21It's just obviously not going to be Pat Bryant is the guy that people get really excited about as a late round pick.

51:27And I am excited about Pat Bryant too. I know we're both late.

51:31We're both Pat Bryant guys, but just might settle out into the Jawan Jennings archetype.

51:35But going back to Jennings, Nate, I think your point about him, what rings to me is that he is part of

51:41this move that the Vikings are signaling that they really are serious about running the football this year, which I think is pretty desperately needed for that offense.

51:49Yeah. And that run game was a lot better than I think people realized last year.

51:54It was, it was the best run game that Kevin O'Connell has ever had, but still, what were they, the 13th in rushing DVOA last year.

52:01So better than what they had, it was still 13th.

52:04But no, I think that's just a whole part of this.

52:07And that's to help Kyler Murray out. You know, they know that Kyler Murray is not a guy you want chucking at 40 times.

52:13You want him as a big play guy. And his offensive preference, Kyler's throwing preference has gotten shorter and shorter.

52:19So rather than throw shorter and shorter, it's one throw deep.

52:22And let's have the run game build up everything underneath.

52:25And they've invested in it, not only just talent wise, you know, Aaron Jones, Jordan Mason, but also just coaching wise.

52:31They brought in Dolphins assistant to help out with this run game, to diversify it, to kind of blend some things together.

52:37Maybe some pistol and gun run games with Kyler in there.

52:40So I think they are definitely investing in it.

52:43I think they were seventh in running back rushing success rate.

52:46I think last year on top of that DVOA stat I had, I have it.

52:50Oh, here we go. Sixth in early down rushing success rate on running back runs.

52:54Now you get Kyler dropped in there. Now you get a little diversification of the coaching staff as well.

52:59Now you get guys like Juwan Jennings, auxiliary blockers.

53:02There's something here that I share with you, my Aaron Jones stat.

53:05Did you know since, since 2013, there have been 40 running backs with a thousand more carries.

53:10He is first in rushing success rate. First, James Conner, second, CMC, third, Derek Henry, fourth, Jonathan Taylor, fifth, Zeke, six, Kareem

53:16Hunt, Austin Eckler, Josh Jacobs, Alvin Kamara. That's the top 10.

53:19And he's first though. I know he's a baller dude.

53:22Pleasant stat. He's awesome. He's going to be, he's going to be one of these guys.

53:26That's not, he's not a hall of fame or anything, but you know, 20 years from now, God willing, we're still doing podcasts.

53:33And be like, remember Aaron Jones? Like he was one of the best backs of that era.

53:38Very good. Yeah. Yeah. And also God, truly one of the best dudes in the sport as well.

53:43Just such a, I've met him so many times and he's just awesome.

53:46Such, such a nice guy. Great, great interview with the whole deal.

53:50So yeah, he's amazing. By the way, the Vikings last year, there are, there are only five, one, two, three, four, five,

53:56six teams that had an eight gap, eight spot gap or higher in their drop back EPA.

54:00And they're rushing EPA. Those teams are the Bengals, the dolphins, the Ravens, the bucks, the bears, and the Vikings.

54:06They were 16th in rushing EPA and 24th in drop back EPA.

54:09There are one of the only teams that were like just the, one of the worst passing games there, you know?

54:15So it's a tough scene from that part of it.

54:18You got to hope that evens out this year.

54:20Bullish on a man. That's what I'm just like.

54:23Like coward just has to be his median self set, which is the 17th best quarterback in the league since he's been in the league.

54:30And this offense is, I know, I'm sorry. It's just like the math for me is working for them.

54:35At least how I envisioned it anyways. Yeah. I'm still just a touch hesitant because I think the passing game is so the design of it.

54:43I mean, look, they were 14th in explosive play rate last year, which is crazy to think that offense was 14th in explosive play rate.

54:50But that's what this offense does. Because it's so boom or bust from a design perspective.

54:54And they don't really have. I mean, maybe Jennings can be that kind of layup receiver.

54:58I actually was talking to somebody who would know this two or three years ago.

55:03And they said, oh, man, like the Vikings desperately want their own version of Juwan Jennings.

55:07And now they actually have Juwan Jennings. And that was pre 2024.

55:10That was before Jennings had like a 900 yard season.

55:13That was when he was just third and Juwan for the for the San Francisco 49ers and the blocking in the whole.

55:19When I was doing like blocking interviews with him at the Super Bowl, that was that version of Juwan Jennings.

55:25Now they actually have Jennings three years later. But anyways, so maybe he could be that layup guy for them.

55:31But I think they need more layups in the passing game.

55:34And I think Kyler's boom or bust. The passing game design is kind of boom or bust.

55:38That makes me a little bit nervous just talking about some of the receivers statistics this year.

55:43But I can also see a scenario, Nate, where their run game is better.

55:47And it's mostly because they just say, hey, Kyler Murray is only here for one year.

55:52Let's just run him around. Run him. Chuck it.

55:54Who cares if he gets smoked in the backfield?

55:57That's what they did with Darnold on his one year rental.

56:00They didn't run him a bunch. But they said, hey, we don't care how many times he gets hit.

56:05Let's keep on chucking it. We don't care how many picks he throws.

56:09Let's just keep on chucking it. I know there's – and again, this is just the human scouting of it all.

56:14And this can – I think some people weigh too much.

56:17But you got to weigh it sometimes. Kyler and KOC are really mad right now.

56:22And Justin Jefferson is really mad right now. And they don't like how their reputations have gotten hit.

56:27And that's just me on the outside looking in.

56:29There's something to that. And there's not a lot of like – I know a lot of things focus and the oxygen about this team is about J.J.

56:37McCarthy and stuff. No, this is the Kyler's team this year.

56:40And this offense, I think, is just – they're motivated to kind of show some things this year.

56:45So that's why I'm kind of bullish on it.

56:48Maybe I'm overweighing that a little too much. But it's going to be – it's a fun experiment.

56:53There's some fun experiences this year, positive and negative.

56:55I'm looking at you, Philly, in Washington. But I think this one will be one more of a positive one.

57:01Mmm. Definitely Washington. Yeah, we'll get into that in the final offensive line segment, by the way.

57:05But yeah, this is, again, just to put a bow on it, this is why Nate and I do obsess about the

57:12power slot or just the slot that can line up on ball, even if it's not one of these big time –

57:18I mean, it's not Chris Godwin or one of these great players of the past.

57:22It's the guys that can really activate the rest of the receivers, at least I'm obsessed with that, which Pat Bryant, that's

57:28part of the reason because he's going to be that third receiver.

57:31It's honestly part of the reason I'm so high on Jalen Waddell because he can take so many snaps off ball and

57:38be in motion and the whole deal. But we are going to take a quick break.

57:42When we come back, we actually are talking about one of those former godfathers, figureheads of the power slot archetype.

57:48We'll get into that right after this. All right.

57:50We're back. We were joking about this during the break, and now I have to say it on air.

57:55This is the most June 30th podcast on August 26th that's ever been done.

57:59Nate, when people right now are literally like, can you idiots just tell me who to draft?

58:04Tell me who the sleepers are. And we're like, how about Josh Oliver?

58:08How about Colby Parkinson? Which, Nate, those are the guys you're going to talk about next.

58:12But like I said, I guarantee you all are – we think so highly of you that we think you're smart enough

58:18to listen to a discussion about these. These vulture players and say, okay, I can now turn that into an actionable take

58:24for myself about what to do with some of these other players in the offense that I actually care about.

58:30Because we, unlike the other shows out there, we think you're smart.

58:33We don't need to just spoon feed you the answers.

58:36We think you're smart and can interpret the meaning within this discussion.

58:40So, Nate, what do the people need to interpret about your two inline blocking tight ends?

58:44I just wanted to talk about them. And I was like, let's just talk about some blocking tight ends, some rugs that tie the room together.

58:51I already hinted one, which was Josh Oliver. I guess – but I think even just category, I was like, I don't know, pick a blocking tight end.

58:59John Bates from the Commanders. Like, I could just keep going on and on with this.

59:04Jackson Hawes from the Bills. But Colby Parkinson, I think, is the guy I really want to identify because we talked about

59:10the Rams extensively yesterday on Football 301. Make sure you check that pot out.

59:14It was really fun, FC West. But we talked about Terrence Ferguson and that vertical element that he adds.

59:19And Colby Parkinson is the blocker, the inline guy, while also being an effective receiver as well.

59:24And I brought this up when we did the All Football 301 team.

59:27But with 48 tight ends last year or 200 more routes, he was second in success rate per route or successful catches

59:33per route and fourth and first down per route.

59:36So very effective when he is asked to run routes.

59:39He's also asked to block a lot. But he is the guy that kind of just – as high as you want

59:45to get on Ferguson, it's like Parkinson's always going to be kind of tied in one, if that makes sense.

59:50He's kind of overtaking Higby and the Rams backfield for everything.

59:54He is the guy that gets the most snaps.

59:56He's the guy that's going to have the most versatile roles where Ferguson's going to be truly receiving and getting a lot

60:02of stuff where it's like very designery. So it's more like Parkinson.

60:06I can envision his role and sometimes that leads to the A.J.

60:09Barners of the world. I think the Rams have other options that they can attack.

60:13But it's like he is the role that I can envision the easiest because I've seen it the most and also just because he's very damn good.

60:21He's a really good tight end, even if not always fantasy relevant.

60:24Well, yeah, it's like you said. These are the guys that bring the ecosystems together, the whole deal.

60:29It increases offensive potency. In addition to the fact that, yeah, I mean, Colby Parkinson had some weeks last year in fantasy.

60:35If you guessed them right, that's cool for you.

60:38But even better, the actionable fantasy takeaway for guys like this is if you can pick these guys late in your best

60:44ball draft, there is a way to kind of compile a room together.

60:47You probably want one real deal receiving tight end here.

60:50But for your tight end to your tight end three, the whole deal, there's definitely a path forward for you to just

60:56compile some weeks from these guys at the tight end position.

60:59Like I was in a best ball draft yesterday.

61:02I took Charlie Kolar at the very last pick of the draft because I think there's a real shot that he leads

61:08the charges tight ends and snaps this year. And he just has a couple of weeks and you don't have to pick them, right?

61:15You don't have to pick them when you're doing best ball.

61:18So that's the thought process there. No, that's simply Charlie Kolar is that his role I envision the easiest.

61:23It's everyone we're hemming and hawing about Gadsden and what he can do and how many snaps he's going to take.

61:29What's his role? Are the receivers going to get more?

61:32It's like, well, they paid this guy and they handpicked him and he's going to have.

61:36I know there's been some kind of stuff out there.

61:39It's like his receiving role hasn't been huge, but his role overall in the offense is going to lead to the most snaps.

61:45And I chase snaps because more snaps means more opportunities for touches, more opportunities for touches means more points.

61:51Again, it's theory of it. But again, when it's kind of that's the tiebreaker for me is the guy that's going to get on the field the most.

61:59Absolutely. Yeah. Every now and again, it means into it ends up being a Tucker craft.

62:03That's like the best outcome, right? That it ends up being tough craft.

62:07That's probably pretty rare. But, you know, it can end up being an A.J.

62:11Barnard type. I mean, I think about your boy Marlon Klein from the draft.

62:14Marlon Klein. Could he be that guy for the Texans?

62:17You know, I mean, there's a lot of options in this year's draft class.

62:21But that's a guy that he. Yeah. Eli Raritan.

62:24I've obviously like he's the one that I think could end up being like a high praise.

62:28But like, could he be like a Tucker craft type?

62:31You know, I don't know. But he's probably the one that has that ceiling.

62:35But like, yeah, Klein could be one of those guys that in a couple of years we have best ball drafts.

62:41It's like, oh, yes. 18th round, 19th round Marlon Klein.

62:44And he scores five touchdowns randomly for the Texans.

62:46Like I do think. But again, it's what these guys are able.

62:50The real take from an offensive potency perspective is what they can do from a formation standpoint.

62:54But that's how these guys also with the way teams are mixing things up now, personal groupings and everything.

63:00This is how guys can end up having random, you know, quote unquote, 300 yard seasons with four to five touchdowns.

63:06Yeah, the spike weeks. And I think that's a great point with the best ball stuff like these.

63:11Yeah, I think that's a it's a nice strategy.

63:13Actually, it's kind of like I've inadvertently done sometimes because I've I find myself sometimes kicking, you know, punting on tight end.

63:19It's just how I've always kind of really looked at the position because I always feel like I can find a guy that's I.

63:26Tucker Craft. I know some of the guys over the years.

63:29But I do think that like best ball is a great time to use these guys.

63:33If you accumulate a few, if you have a deep roster, you can do it and all those types of things.

63:39Yeah, because the roles are there. And then also just with more heavy personnel and the play action off of them.

63:45Think of A.J. Barner's touchdown in the Super Bowl, which is that is those are the opportunities that they get.

63:51It's like they're marching down. Jason's got to catch their run of the ball.

63:55Kenneth Walker shot play goes to the blocking tight end because it's like the defense has just been used to getting pounded in the face.

64:02That guy's blocking, blocking, blocking. And then they get the juiciest touch of the entire drive.

64:06So it's sometimes those opportunities lead to those three catches, 30 yards, one touchdown games that not bad for a best ball sometimes.

64:13Oscar Delp, Matthew Hibner, two other rookie tight ends to watch.

64:16Hibner's a great one. It could be great shout.

64:18Yeah, especially because just the Mark Andrews stuff. We'll see how that goes.

64:22But all right, we are going to finish here our last fantasy vulture.

64:25You're such a sicko, Nate. I think we were supposed to have five and five and you went six.

64:31So I only got four, which is good because I have no creativity left in my brain right now.

64:36But this is such a perfect one to end it on.

64:39So tell us who's your final better in real life than fantasy player.

64:43Yeah, I think it's just, you know, once you're seven, eights through division previews, you really kind of talk about these rosters a lot.

64:49So you start dipping and you start thinking about this a lot.

64:53It's Cooper Cupp, who has been, who is essentially, I always say Tino, a tight end in name only.

64:58And I guess he's a wino. A rhino W-R-I-N-O.

65:01It's every kind of rhino that it usually is.

65:03Wide receiver in name only. How the Seahawks use him, or at least last year with Clint Kubiak.

65:08He got used in a lot of kind of what we usually see wing tight ends doing.

65:13Really just the off ball stuff, walking on outside zone, a lot of slot routes, third down routes, just getting past the first down.

65:20But he gets those opportunities, and he's going to be on the field a decent amount because his skill set is to open up Jason.

65:27Rashid can't be used in those situations. He's a deep burner intermediate guy.

65:30So Cooper Cupp is going to have a role.

65:33Coaches love him. Trust him. I mean, but that's the thing is he went, he got used as a receiver like a

65:39tight end, and that opened up the receiver things.

65:41Now he's going to use as a receiver like a tight end to just be used as a tight end, essentially.

65:47So I think also, too, is that we've talked about this all the time.

65:51It's the invert roles. Him and Elijah Arroyo can do some cool stuff, too, where Cupp's inside.

65:56Elijah Arroyo split out. So boosting everybody else, but not fantasy relevant this year.

66:00No, and he is like the rich man's Jawan Jennings.

66:03Oh, my God. This is so perfect. This is from the dark night that the producers have put on.

66:08They put Cooper Cupp's headshot on the you either die here or you live long enough to become the villain, to see yourself become the villain.

66:15And this is great because that's kind of Cooper Cupp.

66:18Yeah, you either die. Let's say you either retire one of the best at your position or you see yourself live long

66:24enough to become the fantasy vulture, like the fantasy league winner to the fantasy vulture.

66:28I always just say this is like this is so true at the running back position.

66:33I used to say this to Eckler when we did the show together.

66:36I was like, this is the life cycle of a fantasy back, you know, because he was when he really started popping off.

66:43It was the oh, my God, like get this guy on the field and get Melvin Gordon off the field after a

66:49few years before it was Melvin Gordon. First round pick Chargers running back one.

66:53Awesome. Let's get Melvin Gordon out of here. Then he goes to the Broncos.

66:57Get Melvin Gordon out of here. I just want to see Javante Williams and then a couple years later, get Javante Williams out of here.

67:04I don't want to see him anymore. And then for Austin, I mean, shoot, there was there's some disrespectful fantasy accounts last year.

67:10I'm like, get Austin Eckler off the field. I'm trying to see Bill Krosky merit.

67:14And then I hope you guys feel great. He tours Achilles in week two.

67:18I hope you guys feel good about yourselves out there.

67:21Anyways, that's enough of my Mount Pius high horse rant there.

67:24But yeah, with Cooper Cup, he has kind of become this rich man's Juwan Jennings in a way.

67:29Bigger name, of course. But yeah, it's just he's a guy really like Rashid Shaheed is a late round pick this year

67:35because I've always believed there's more to him than just just the burner.

67:39I think he's got really good hands. He attacks the football well.

67:42He has good catching technique and he definitely separates on some breaking routes and things.

67:46But you can only get so high on this guy because Cooper Cup is going to play some level of a role here.

67:53Exactly. And how they want to use other guys.

67:55It's just like his. Oh, no, I can envision his role because a lot of times it's like sometimes you want JSN being the vertical guy.

68:03All right. Well, Rashid Shaheed, I want him on the field to be the vertical guy, if that makes sense.

68:08Or JSN could do every role. The other guys have more specific roles.

68:12So they kind of have to be rotated through.

68:14The other thing, too, is Jake Bobo got hurt, who was the other kind of younger version of kind of the dirty work guy in this offense.

68:22So, again, more opportunity for Cooper Cup to stay on the field and kind of eat into other touches as well.

68:28Also, people don't realize how big Cup is, too.

68:30He's like 6'2", to 10. I think, yeah, I get why, you know, white slot guy.

68:35But, no, he's like a big dude, like a big receiver.

68:38He's a big guy. He also runs his routes kind of hunched over, too, which I think makes him look a little shorter than.

68:44Yeah, he does that thing. But, yeah, dude, he's the original big slot.

68:48I mean, I remember this at the time when he came into the league.

68:52He was the first kind of RP charting mold breaker in that, you know, that was 2016.

68:572017 he came into the league, and it was 16, 17?

69:00Yeah, 2017. And he played that role where it was just like, wait, this is different.

69:04And it was the first guy where I had to kind of be like, all right, you need to throw this metric out.

69:11You need to throw this metric out because what the Rams are asking him to do, they don't ask anyone else to do that.

69:17Like, they don't ask any other receivers. I mean, this guy would literally, as a rookie, like check and release from the

69:24slot and just run wide open into the flat against zone coverage.

69:27And Jared Goff would find him every single time.

69:29And then he'd have run after catch opportunities. He still does all that just without the run after catch.

69:35It's a little Jewish. Yeah. Or, yeah, just gets caught right away.

69:38Watch the Steelers game. I think I had a stat about him where it was like, I have like how many times

69:44like the receivers block on true media. And it was something like he always had like one of the highest rates, like

69:50of like not just run blocking, but like actual.

69:53I have like pass blocking percentage. And usually most receivers are like 0% or 0.02% or 0.2%.

69:58And his actually was like a decent amount. Like it was like, no, he actually was blocking pass blocking, not just run

70:04blocking, like 10% of his snaps, which is like absurd for a receiver to be doing that much.

70:09I want to see if I can find that stat.

70:12But yeah. Yeah. Last year was about 2% of the stats, but when he was with the Rams was a little bit higher.

70:18But it was, it was always pretty funny to see how much he stood out that because that's a tight end usage.

70:24He's just as receiver next to his name. Well, again, the actual takeaway from why this is good.

70:29If cups on the field, he's doing some of that blocking stuff.

70:33Good for Janarian price. That's cool. Also. Good for JSN with that 35.8% target share, which I've said many times is the highest since at least 2015.

70:40We want that to stay above 30%. Cups, the wide receiver too.

70:43Got a pretty good chance for that thing to stay above 30%.

70:47Commanding those targets. Not any of those targets. All right.

70:50We're going to take our last quick break. We come back.

70:53We're talking Nate's offensive line rankings. Yes. The people are dying for those.

70:56We'll get into that right after this. All right.

70:59We're back. And as promised, we are taking a look at Nate's offensive line rankings.

71:03And I hope, Nate, you did not take that as a slight when I said the people are dying to hear this.

71:09Because I'm actually not kidding. I have had people reach out and say, I want Nate Tice's offensive line rankings on the show.

71:15I want to know who the good offensive lines are and everything.

71:19A little bit of a. Yeah, right. Tweet this.

71:21Look at this. You tweet. Tweet this bad. That's what I'm saying.

71:25Tweet this bad boy out, which is great. Because my thing is here, we do not have time to talk about every

71:31single one of these offensive lines on this show.

71:33So you're going to look at that. You're going to look at the tweet graphic when Nate tweets this out.

71:39Secondly, you're going to go to the website, Yahoo Sports dot com, and you're going to read Nate's offensive line rankings.

71:45We'll link that in the show notes. Producers, there's a little bit of homework here.

71:49But because we are reading again in 2026. I've said I've said that many times.

71:53We are reading 4,000 words. We are reading again in 2026.

71:56I was just under 4,000 words on it. So yeah, it was supposed to be just a quick listicle plus type article

72:02that I was like, yeah, yeah, that works out.

72:05And I just couldn't help myself. And the words just kept pouring out.

72:09Yeah. I was supposed to write a quick little look at who could be the wide receiver one overall this year.

72:14And that was like almost 4,000, 5,000 words. So tough scene.

72:17Okay. The top unit for Nate Tice. This number one offensive line coming into the 2026 NFL season is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

72:24This is a big one here, Nate. Tell us why they're your number one unit.

72:28Yeah, it's the talent that they have. And how I kind of try to weigh this is like, all right, how much high end talent do you have?

72:36What's your weakest link? What's your scheme and coach is like?

72:39And do you have like other personnel that helps you out?

72:42Quarterback running back. You know, those tiebreakers. As far as the left to right talent, Tristan Wirth might be the best offensive

72:48lineman in the game at the very least, I think, on the podium.

72:52And then when you look at the other four starters, this last year, I was very high on this offense or this offensive line, especially.

72:59But then they just got hurt like right away.

73:01We're starting on PUP. Graham Barton was playing a left tackle.

73:04Cody Mock got hurt at right guard. And Cody Mock had ascended in his second year into I would say he was

73:11a below average starter as a rookie into a good starter his second year.

73:14And they got hurt last year that I was like, oh, yeah, you're good.

73:18It was kind of like a reminder. Oh, yeah, we have a good starter coming back at guard.

73:23We have Luke Geteke, who I think is a good starter at right tackle, not pro bowl quality, but good.

73:29Barton, I think, is good that has maybe even more room to tap into.

73:33So I brought up four guys at the very least, I think, in my estimation, I hold as above above average to good starters or better.

73:40And then Ben Bredesen is like a B minus starter.

73:43So that's really just it. They have no real weak link.

73:46They are scheme independent. Like no matter what scheme you use with them, they are going to excel.

73:51They can do screens, pass protection. They're smart with.

73:53They have the same offensive line coach for a few years now.

73:57They had drop off last year, but I attribute most of that to injuries, you know, which is the offense as opposed to like, oh, scheme was bad.

74:05Or there was some scheme stuff, but some scheme might kind of like their fall off the play, I should say.

74:11But really, I do think that this this unit just has the talent and a lack of weak weak link.

74:16That really kind of gives me worry that maybe some other things do with some other schemes or some other other units,

74:22I should say, that we'll talk about. Yeah, you are not alone, really, on this take either.

74:27I've seen Brandon Thorne, who's a great offensive line evaluator.

74:30I believe he's got them in his top three as well.

74:33So this is something that you, you know, are not alone on.

74:36And I'm with you on paper. This looks like a great offensive line.

74:40And this people forget that Bucks started their season off last year without Tristan.

74:44Worse, like Graham Barton, who was a great center, has to kick out the left.

74:48They started in chaos right away. You know, knock on wood.

74:51They're healthy right now. And, Nate, to reference our, you know, ADP rank versus offensive projection show last week, we didn't talk about the Bucks.

74:58But they're 21st in ADP ranking. I mean, and they're 15th overall in the offensive projections.

75:02So there's like a six spot difference here. So, like, that's because their wide receiver one comes off the board 45th overall.

75:09They're running back 158th overall. Another player doesn't come off the board for the Bucks until 97th overall, Chris Godwin.

75:14And nobody wants to draft Baker Mayfield. He's literally QB 24 in ADP.

75:18If you're right about this Bucks offensive line being number one in the NFL, and, you know, again, Abuka's dealing with the toe right now.

75:25But these guys all stay healthy. There's going to be some big, fat, you know, league winners from this group here.

75:31And I know Bucky Irving kind of had the year from hell last year.

75:35But he looked better when I watched him this preseason.

75:37And Kenneth Gainwell is a very effective player. Really, it's that's that's what even when I did the NFC South preview with

75:43Josh, I kind of was I was going into that show thinking I was going to pick the Saints.

75:49And I think doing all the prep work and stuff, I'm like, this is maybe the best unit in this division.

75:55And it's like a true needle moving unit where all the rest can get hurt.

75:59They can figure out what the hierarchy was with the receivers.

76:02Everything else can get sorted out. And Baker Mayfield was scrambling so much last year.

76:06OK, maybe this calms him down. And then, you know, just kind of getting into this offense and getting with this kind of ecosystem.

76:13So, yeah, it was just kind of like doing that research and going into it.

76:17It's like, wow, this is a real strength and a strength that can carry him in some games, especially in that division.

76:23Yeah. It's so funny that you said that because I was having a conversation this morning with my personal trainer who's a Bucs fan.

76:30That's right. Shout out to me. I have a personal trainer.

76:33And I said, I think I thought I was going to I've been teasing him all offseason that I think the Saints are going to win the division.

76:41I admitted this morning that I was like, actually, I changed my mind.

76:44The Bucs are going to win the division this year.

76:47And I think this offense is a huge screaming value in fantasy football.

76:51So we're sharing a brain here on that one.

76:53Your next grouping is next top four units. Yes.

76:56Broncos, Eagles, Bills, Cowboys. I don't even need to talk about any of those.

77:00I think people know those offensive lines are good and we're drafting a lot of players from those teams.

77:05I want to talk about just from this group, the next group here.

77:09And again, like I said, we're not going to be able to get to all these, but good units with a couple spots are things I'm squinting at.

77:16You got Chiefs, Bears, Colts. Pick one offensive line here, Nate, that you think actually could jump up into the next tier up, like could outperform expectations.

77:24Oh, that would be the Chiefs. The Chiefs are knocking on that door.

77:28It's just really for me. It's Josh Simmons. If Josh Simmons is playing most of the season, because he just seems like this weird question mark injury stuff.

77:35And I do think that there's some other stuff with him that I don't want to go into here.

77:41But it's like I do think with that with Simmons is that.

77:44But if he's playing, he's an all pro, like all pro quality player.

77:48Like he really is. He was so impressive as a rookie.

77:51Kingsley, Stu, Mata, either left guard. It was a very improved last year where I think now he's good.

77:56And Creed Humphrey is the best center in the game.

77:59Trey Smith is good. He's streaky. And so he can get beat sometimes because he's like kind of a shotgun playing right guard.

78:05But the things that's made me feel a little bit better is this guy Khalil Benson, this undrafted rookie they got.

78:11Benson was at Indiana and Colorado and back to Indiana in college.

78:15Ends up undrafted. He looked excellent in preseason at guard.

78:17And I think they're playing him at tackle a little bit, too.

78:21They have Jalen Moore. They signed him. He's the weak link right now, but he's not awful.

78:25Like it's not like, oh, my God, you guys are starting Trey Pipkins.

78:29You know, you're not starting. You know, one of these guys, that's the one of the boogeyman's at offensive line.

78:35So I'm curious at the right tackle spot. So that's what I'm squinting at, squinting at Simmons and his availability.

78:40The Khalil Benson thing is actually really kind of been really interesting to me is like the right side depth.

78:46Yeah, he was really impressive at guard. Like I was I had no radar.

78:50I was aware of him, but it wasn't like a guy I was seeking out to watch right away.

78:55He just kind of washed over me because he was standing out so much.

78:59All right. So the next group is better than you think.

79:02I'm just going to read off these names because there's a couple of these offenses that are not good.

79:07And yet, you know, these lines are better than you think.

79:10And that's how some of these could become, you know, maybe not great teams, but value fantasy offenses.

79:15Bengals, which I know is again, I want people to go read your Bengals section because this is, one, you've been like

79:22your axe to grind with big football media. I've seen you post about this a lot that the Bengals line is better than people putting this morning.

79:29Giants. I saw it. I saw giants. I could have dolphins, saints, jets.

79:33If any of those teams outkick expectations, it's likely to be because their O-line is better than you think.

79:38But just last one I want to end on here.

79:41Your final section is injuries. And now I don't know what to do with you.

79:45You have the Panthers here, which I think people won't be surprised by because they've lost both of their theoretical starting tackles to injuries.

79:52I think they kind of planned for the Ikea Quanu one, but, you know, Taylor Moton has been a great player for a long time.

79:59He's out with blood clots. I believe it is.

80:01Right. So monitor, Freeling, Rashid Walker. We'll see about that part of it.

80:05And they've had some guard stuff in the like we know what the deal with the Panthers is.

80:10But the Commanders, you are certainly starting to send some alarm bells up on the Commanders, Nate.

80:15And I have also started to every time I start to look at these passing game players for the Commanders when I

80:21update my fantasy rankings, I'm starting to dock these guys down a little bit.

80:25This is a unit I was excited about. What's kind of ringing your alarm bells about the Commanders right now?

80:30So I was interested in this O-line. I actually thought they would be more about average-ish going into the season.

80:36And I was curious about this offensive system. Losing Laramie Tunsil, definitely alarm bell.

80:40Their center has been dealing with a calf injury, Nick Algaretti.

80:43I'm actually still high on Josh Connelly, the right tackle.

80:46I think he's a good run blocker. I'm curious how he is as a pass protector.

80:50Chris Paul's solid, Cosme's solid. But I watched them in preseason.

80:53And again, you weigh all these teams differently in preseason because they're all trying to accomplish something different.

80:58But they look bad. Like they look sloppy on offense.

81:01They look sloppy on defense. So I'm getting really worried about this team, especially a team going through a big transition on offense.

81:07And that's what's got me really, really concerned. I'm not concerned about Sonny Stiles, by the way, which I know is grabbing

81:13a lot of the oxygen about that team. He looks good.

81:17So don't worry. People can't do linebacker. No, the O-line is very concerning, especially how I think they want to attack.

81:22That's what Cliff Kingsbury is. Again, his offense has warts.

81:25It hides offensive line deficiencies because they win with speed.

81:28They say, we're going to run a bunch of plays.

81:31We're going to – even if we're not perfect, we're going to pop something because we have so much speed and we're going so fast.

81:38Now they want to be methodical. If you want to be methodical, you've got to be really down on your details.

81:44Their offensive line coach is a guy that's only – he's been an assistant line coach in the league, but he's only

81:50come from college as an O-line coach. That's a little concerning for me, even if it's some of the stuff he did in college I liked.

81:57It's a big jump. And it's a new first-time OC, so I'm not sure if he has ways to mitigate that.

82:03They have a quarterback that likes to scramble a bunch.

82:06They don't have a running back that really like – I can really hang my hat on.

82:10I like a couple things, but I can't – see what I'm building here?

82:14It's not like – I'm really starting to get more and more worried about this team as the time has gone on this summer.

82:21It's not just you talking, Nate, that is a horror show, but if you're watching with us along on YouTube, you've seen

82:27just like five or six – I mean the producers are deep in their bag right now looking – I know which

82:33producer it is, by the way – deep in their bag – actually it could be two of them – deep in

82:39their bag looking for just like sliding scale of – it just keeps getting worse offensive lines specifically reports from commanders, beat

82:46writers, who are all really good by the way.

82:48The commanders have a really good beat. But just group of offensive line horror shows from training camp and everything, and we have seen this in the preseason.

82:56Absolutely. This is one of those ones, Nate, we were talking about this with Mike Evans yesterday on Football 301 where like a March curiosity idea.

83:03You start to get into August and you start thinking about this in practice.

83:07This is David Blau to me as the offensive coordinator for the Washington commanders because I have been super, super interested in

83:13the idea of David Blau coming off the – I mean he's coached under Cliff Kingsbury for two years as the freaking assistant quarterback coach.

83:20So that's a big jump in addition to the college offensive line thing, which I know you have raised the alarm bells

83:26before previously and been correct about, let the record show, for other teams.

83:30But the Blau is a big promotion, but it's all about based on the theory that he's going to bring some Ben

83:36Johnson things in here because he's come up as a Ben Johnson backup quarterback with the Lions, whatever.

83:41Dan Quinn, excuse me, said at the opening presser they want to do more under center play action.

83:46I'm like, ooh, I'm really interested in that. And that is like such a classic March curiosity that then you see it

83:52and it all comes to come together in August and the reality doesn't look so good.

83:57So, yeah, I thought I was going to be over-indexed on the commanders from a fantasy perspective, Nate, but worried about the

84:03passing game and worried like Bill Krosky Merritt, who's like a nice sleeper running back.

84:07Does he just get banged from a snaps perspective because they need your boy Rashad White out there to pass protect?

84:13And that's what's concerning, too. And then even guys like Chico Kwankwo, like they had him doing pass protection and he botched it.

84:19And that's what led to the Jaden Daniels sack in the preseason.

84:23And again, you don't want to just go, oh, it's one bad play in preseason.

84:27They're fixing this up. I watch other teams with new coaches, and this is over years.

84:31When I'm starting to watch the depth and the depth is making a lot of mental mistakes, that kind of indicates coaching.

84:38It's not all ability. I'm watching the Seahawks backup defenders teeing off on guys and running, flying.

84:42And you want to who's one of the best coaches in the NFL?

84:46Mike McDonald. I'm watching the 49ers backups trotting out there and doing good stuff.

84:50I'm watching the Rams undersized center making calls and doing all this.

84:53And then I watch the commanders. I'm like, oh, wow.

84:56They just, oh, oh, no. And mental mistakes, mental mistakes, mental mistakes.

84:59And that's, again, now that we've built and now I've seen their moves.

85:03There's certain players, too, that teams sign that are kind of red flag players.

85:07And they have a couple. They have DJ Humphreys.

85:09They have Daniel Brunskill now. And they have Nick Petit.

85:12Oh, man. Like, they have a lot of guys on this team.

85:15Stephon Diggs is a little bit of a red flag player now.

85:19I think now as we're getting to the. But it's like these.

85:22That it's scary. It's getting scary with this team right now.

85:25Yeah. It's getting really sloppy. So it's not like even the defense improvement.

85:29I'm like, oh, yeah, that can carry him. It's like, no, the defense, which is just as sloppy as the offense.

85:35And so that's that's, again, leads to concerns. And all of this could have been, you know, not good, but maybe fine

85:41if they didn't lose one of the three best left tackles in the NFL.

85:45That's where it all comes down to. Like, this is how you get to disaster level.

85:49So really positive note for us to end on here at Nate Tice.

85:53But that is really good analysis. As people are going into.

85:56You had to make it through the first, you know, 87 minutes of the show to get the most actionable takeaway here,

86:02which is maybe start docking those commanders players in fantasy rankings.

86:05But I hope I'm wrong about that because I do love I mean, Terry McLaurin and Stefan digs, especially digs are like RP Hall of Famers.

86:12So hopefully I'm wrong about that. But I have started to dock both of those guys just because the offensive line concerns.

86:19So great show today with Nate. This was amazing of a June podcast right at the end of August is your drafts are coming up.

86:26The better in real life players for fantasy football plus offensive line rankings.

86:29You absolutely love to see it. You know what else you love to see out there, people?

86:34It is day 17 of 29 for Yahoo Fantasies 29th year.

86:37And to celebrate day 17 of 29, we are revealing commissioners can now set custom scoring by position and stat category.

86:43Yes, I've seen the sentiment out there. The people want the custom scoring.

86:46They have been dying. They've been thirsting for this.

86:49Well, guess what, folks? Now you can do it.

86:51You can award points for any stat touchdowns, receptions, yardage, yardage bonuses, 60 plus yard field goals.

86:56I saw Adam Vinatieri was the guy announcing this for us.

86:59That's pretty incredible. You can credit team wins, team wins and defensive return yards.

87:03Absolutely amazing. Play with custom scoring. And reminder, next week's a big one.

87:07The Yahoo Fantasy Analyst League. September 1st, 5 p.m.

87:09Right here on the YouTube channel. This is going to be really sick.

87:13Nate's going to be. Nate will be there for that.

87:16We booked him for that. Okay. For this massive live draft stream.

87:19It's going to be absolutely. It's going to be crazy.

87:22I hope to see you guys there tomorrow. I am going to be not in this little box.

87:27I'm going to be in New York City. I'm going to be in the Big Apple as they call it.

87:33In studio, in person with Yahoo NFL senior writer, Jory Epstein.

87:36She's going to join me as she finishes her training camp tour for 19 freaking teams.

87:40I'm going to ask her the most important things she learned.

87:43These are things you guys are going to need for your drafts.

87:46I promise you that. Until then, we are out.

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