QB Rankings, Sleepers, and Tiers. Plus, Summer Movie Club: 'Transformers.'
STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.
1 hr 52 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 15, 2026
Published
Wed, July 15, 2026
4
Player insights
4
Players mentioned
Topics
Jalen HurtsJayden DanielsJustin HerbertTrevor Lawrence
Player analysis
Player insights
Jalen Hurts
NegativeProjection38:57
Jalen Hurts is ranked QB10 despite being QB7-QB8 last year; the source cites the Eagles' loss of AJ Brown, Hurts' subpar performance last year, offensive line decline, and reliance on 11+ rushing TDs as reasons for the downgrade. Rushing fantasy points have declined significantly: 9 PPG in 2021, 10+ PPG in 2022, 8.5 PPG in 2023, nearly 10 PPG in 2024, but just over 5 PPG last year. The source attributes this decline to questions about whether the Eagles will continue the 'push play' and whether the offensive line will remain healthy, creating uncertainty about Hurts' rushing volume going forward. The source explicitly states he doesn't want to watch Hurts play and prefers not to draft him, citing the Eagles' offensive struggles and lack of entertainment value despite the floor being respectable.
Insight pageJayden Daniels
PositiveProjection37:49
Jaden Daniels is positioned in tier three alongside other dual-threat QBs (Jalen Hurts, Justin Herbert, Caleb Williams, Trevor Lawrence) who could all run for 10+ touchdowns; the source argues these mobile QBs should be consolidated into one tier rather than separated, positioning Daniels as a tier-three option with significant rushing upside.
Insight pageJustin Herbert
PositiveProjection47:01
Justin Herbert is positioned as a top-four QB option (after Josh Allen, Drake May, and Lamar Jackson) due to Mike McDaniel's arrival as offensive coordinator. The source argues McDaniel is a talent maximizer who has elevated multiple QBs' careers and that Herbert's physical tools (arm strength, processing, mobility) are the greatest fit the Shanahan system has ever seen. Herbert was QB6 through the first nine weeks of last season and averaged 21 fantasy points per game in the four games he played with Joe Alt, which would have been QB1 pace; his performance was hamstrung by offensive line injuries (Rashawn Slater's patellar tendon tear before the season, Joe Alt's injury after four games). The Chargers have made significant O-line improvements (drafted Jake Slaughter, added Tyler Biotish, have Cole Strange at guard). Herbert led all quarterbacks in rushing yards per game through the first nine weeks of last season, and this rushing volume is expected to continue under McDaniel's system. The source projects Herbert for an MVP-level season, citing his superior physical tools compared to Tua Tagovailoa (better arm strength, better processing, better mobility) and the Chargers' offensive line improvement from historically bad (PFF grades: 38/38 left tackle, 36/36 center, 37/38 right guard, 38/38 right tackle) to average. The source argues Herbert's value is being underrated because two hard-to-quantify factors are overlooked: (1) the worst offensive line in the league becoming average, and (2) the coordinator upgrade from Greg Roman to Mike McDaniel, which the source compares to the Mike Singletary-to-Jim Harbaugh coaching upgrade that preceded three straight NFC Championship games for the 49ers.
Insight pageTrevor Lawrence
PositiveProjection47:01
Trevor Lawrence is positioned as a top-five QB option (after Josh Allen, Drake May, Lamar Jackson, and Justin Herbert) due to his second consecutive season of improvement with offensive coordinator Liam Cohen; the source prioritizes QBs with proven offensive coordinators over new play-callers, citing Lawrence's consistency and upside.
Insight pageFull transcript
Episode Transcript
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0:36Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today.
0:38Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TremphayaRadio.com. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.
0:44Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.
0:47Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.
0:54If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required.
0:58Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.
1:05Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur.
1:10Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine.
1:17Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today.
1:19Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TremphayaRadio.com. Welcome to the The Ringer Fantasy Football Show.
1:24My name is Danny Heifetz. I'm joined by Danny Kelly and Craig Horlbeck.
1:27And today we are going over quarterbacks, rankings, tiers, sleepers.
1:30DK, there's actually a lot of good quarterbacks now.
1:33Oh, that's great. I'd love to hear that. All right.
1:36DK didn't know that. So that's good that you're telling him.
1:39I'm excited to talk about the good ones. We're, well, the bad ones are usually more fun.
1:44We're going to go through that and DK watched Transformers finally.
1:47So we're going to do a little movie club at the end of this.
1:51Summer movie club! If I look tired, it's because this movie, guys, you didn't tell me it's two and a half hours long.
1:57It's two hours and 15 minutes. No, well, 224.
2:00Two hours and 24 minutes. The credits start at 2.15.
2:03Well, you got to watch the, you have to listen to the whole song.
2:07Anyways, I'm exhausted. I watched this movie. We'll get to that later.
2:10I think it's funny to me. You didn't watch this movie with your son, which I kind of just assumed you would.
2:16Oh, he would. He's not ready for that yet.
2:19Too much time. Not ready for what? For Transformers.
2:22Too violent or what? Yeah. What? What do you mean?
2:24Too scary, too violent. Too scary? Yeah. I don't know.
2:27What is he? Six? Seven? Seven. Yeah. Okay. Before we get into this, we also want to mention we have a live show in Los Angeles coming up.
2:35I don't know when you're listening to this episode, but if it's, we, the tickets go live, uh, noon Pacific on Wednesday, July 15th.
2:42And if it's after that, you listen to this and the tickets are live now.
2:46So go to the ringer.com slash events. The show is August 27th in Los Angeles at the Fonda theater.
2:52That's a Thursday. So Thursday, August 27th in Los Angeles at the Fonda.
2:55The details are at the ringer.com slash events and you can go buy them starting at noon Pacific on Wednesday, July 15th.
3:02So link in the description. If you wanted to go to the page, just link in the episode.
3:07Click the DK. What's it called? You called an Earl, which I still think is worse than anything I've ever said.
3:13Tiny Earl. Isn't that the name? Isn't that the name of the website?
3:17Tiny URL. It's a URL. You say tiny URL.
3:19No one says tiny at all. And you just say URL.
3:22You say you go to the link. Yeah. Earl.
3:25I, whatever. If I said that, I would never hear the fucking end of it.
3:29Whatever. That's true. Maybe I said it wrong. We'll never find out.
3:32Anyway, I want to get to the quarterbacks. Yeah.
3:35I want to get to our quarterback rankings. I want to start with, before we get into the specifics, I want to
3:41start with two big picture things as we go to quarterbacks.
3:44This is partially fantasy. This is more of a real life story, but I wanted to start here with the quarterbacks as we get into it.
3:52Uh, I feel like this, this season in particular is a, is a true mindset generation shift because I think the defining
3:58quarterbacks of, I guess the 2020s post COVID, whatever, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow.
4:03All of them are either turning 30 this summer or turning 30 during the season.
4:07They are now, those guys are in their thirties.
4:10And I do think that that is a little bit like has to change the way we look at quarterbacks.
4:15Like they're kind of teetering toward becoming the old guy.
4:18They're not quite old guard, but they're not young anymore.
4:21Like they are at the vets. Yeah. And I just think that's an interesting way.
4:25It's weird to think about Lamar Jackson will be 30 in January.
4:29Like Josh Allen's 30. Joe Burrow will turn 30 soon.
4:32Like that. I don't know. I just, I think that it, there, there very much are like young quarterbacks in their early twenties.
4:38And then these guys that are now kind of like, okay, do we expect Lamar Jackson to be rushing for a thousand yards at 30 years old?
4:46I mean, that is the question. It's how, how is this game going to age?
4:50I think Josh Allen, they've continually tried to take him out of the run game.
4:55He continues to do it just because he's so good at it because scrambling is chaotic, but yeah.
5:00I mean, how, how is their game going to age?
5:02How are these older guys going to age? And when we don't have like, we have some evidence, but we don't have
5:09a ton of evidence of guys like Lamar Jackson being 35 years old.
5:12Like we don't really, there's a few guys who are his level of mobile in the past, like a Michael Vick or something like that.
5:20But we don't really have a ton of evidence of like what happens to these guys when they're in their mid thirties or early thirties.
5:27So I, that, that really was going, that really just kind of knocked me backward as I was thinking about all this,
5:33especially with Josh Allen, who I mean, spoiler, but Josh Allen's kind of in his own tier as a tier one quarterback.
5:39I don't really think that's spoiling anything because Josh Allen, he has literally only been the first or second quarterback in season
5:45long fantasy since COVID literally the last six seasons.
5:48Josh Allen's only been the first or second best quarterback.
5:51So it's not even like, where would we rank him among quarterbacks?
5:54It was like that stretch when Mike Trout was either just the MVP or the runner up to MVP for like seven years in baseball.
6:01And then no one would do the tweet Craig in front of you in line.
6:06Allen is a, it's almost like we don't even have to talk about it anymore.
6:10He's just kind of the old reliable. He's the gold standard of fantasy.
6:14Um, he does it with his arms or he does it with his arm.
6:18He does it with his legs every single year.
6:20He's the best red zone weapon in football. He basically the best, I think he's the best red zone quarterback since Cam
6:27Newton or even maybe better than him, uh, in his prime.
6:30So it's just absolutely unstoppable. Once they get into the red zone, I surpassed Cam Newton.
6:34If not at absolute peak ceiling, Cam Newton never did it as well.
6:38Like Kim did not have a six season stretch where that Josh Allen just did.
6:42Maybe you could argue Cam Newton and his prime was better than he probably was as a short yardage guy.
6:48And honestly, the whole fourth down thing kind of started with Cam Newton and Ron Rivera having Cam Newton.
6:53But again, Josh Allen has basically been the best, uh, quarterback in situationally for like six years now.
6:58I mean, my home's in the playoffs has probably been better, but I it's, it's, it's honestly the consistency, it reminds me
7:05of Tony Gonzalez at tight end at two thousands.
7:07Like, you know what I mean? Like the year over year, like just every, the amount of people that have come and
7:14gone and Josh has just been like, it's funny to think of him, but he's been the picture of consistency, which I
7:20don't think anyone would have had seven years ago.
7:22I think the thing that he has, has given you the, especially the last three years is touchdown consistency running the ball.
7:29Yeah. Like the last three years, he's had 15, 12 and 14 rushing touchdowns.
7:33His, his, his yards have gone down a little bit, but the consistency of him in the red zone and the whole,
7:39like, well, James Cook might take his, that never happened.
7:42And you should never assume that's going to happen.
7:44Even though Josh Allen's 30 years old, uh, like DK, you don't feel like you don't have any fear that Josh Allen is going anywhere.
7:51But the top two for the foreseeable future, right?
7:54No. And I think the only you worry, I really is injury and he has proven to be really durable.
8:00I mean, he's a massive, massive human being. Um, he has three, like you said, he has the three straight years of 12 plus touchdowns.
8:07He also has five straight years of 500 plus yards rushing.
8:10In addition to that, I saw this from rich rebar.
8:13He has, he has over the last five years, he's never dipped below 5% touchdown rate.
8:17He's the only quarterback that's done that in that stretch.
8:20Um, so he is just, it's like printing money when you have him in fantasy so far.
8:25Um, so I mean, he's our unquestioned number one quarterback.
8:28And a couple other things that Josh Allen ESPN had this good stat.
8:32Josh Allen's the only player in NFL history that has at least 200 passing touchdowns and 50 rushing touchdowns.
8:37And the other stat I liked was that Josh Allen has 25 passing touchdowns and 10 rushing touchdowns each of the past three years.
8:44And nobody else has ever done that three times at any point in their career, 25 passing, 10 rushing touchdowns.
8:49Josh Allen's done it three times in a row.
8:52Let me ask you this. So do you guys believe that he is alone in the tier in tier one, or do
8:58you think he should be with Lamar Jackson? Or maybe you think Jalen hurts or other guys who he's been with because
9:05like last year, Josh Allen QB one year before that Lamar Jackson was the QB one beat him by three points per game.
9:11Do you think Josh is alone or do you think there should be people with him?
9:16I think he's alone. I think his reliability is what puts him above everyone else.
9:20And I think if you took any other quarterback in front of Josh Allen, I would be like, Oh, okay.
9:26That's interesting. Interesting move there. So that's kind of how I look at it.
9:30I mean, look at Lamar Jackson was like the QB 16 last year or something like that.
9:34And he hasn't proven it in the same way.
9:37I think that Josh Allen has. And, and, you know, so I definitely see him as a top one, especially compared to
9:43like a Drake mayor, whoever we'll get to those guys.
9:46But I just think the length of time that he's done it and the reliability every single year, whether it's passing touchdowns,
9:52rushing touchdowns, rushing yards, he, you just know what you're going to get from him.
9:57So the, I think the question becomes, where do you end up actually taking Josh Allen?
10:01Like where is the, you know, if I think the shorthand is if you get them in the third round, you would take them.
10:08The question is, do you take them in the second round?
10:11Are you taking Josh Allen or like Drake London?
10:14Are you taking Josh Allen or Jeremiah Love? And that's really going to be the answer.
10:18And the truth is he probably won't fall because he's Josh Allen.
10:22He's really cool. And someone in your league is probably going to take him as a top 18 player.
10:27Yeah. It just takes one out of 10 or 12 guys to be like, I'm just going to take Josh Allen.
10:33And usually he goes earlier than you think. So I feel like 22 points a game for my quarterback.
10:39Yeah. And like, usually the guy who had Josh Allen last year wants Josh Allen again this year.
10:44Cause every year he's a top two quarterback. So it's probably very hard for him to actually, we have him ranked around like 27th.
10:51That's probably his latest. So go. So he won't, he won't fall there.
10:54And that's the problem. And that's, and so I want to, before we get into the rest of the quarterbacks, I want
11:01to ask this other question to you, which is just about quarterback strategy this year.
11:05And I want to circle back on it at the end, but JG Zacharisen just had a great, I mean, he named
11:11his whole show like late round quarterback. And then because late drafting quarterbacks late for like the entire 2010s was a really good idea.
11:18And then that ideally went away from 2020 to 2025 because long story short, it's really hard to predict passing yards.
11:24Like the top five people passing yards is hard.
11:26The quarterback rushing yards is easy. We know who the guys who are going to rush for a lot of yards are.
11:33And because one rushing yard is worth like three passing yards, you get a lot.
11:37Basically it's much easier to predict quarterbacks with rushing ability.
11:40So there weren't a lot of quarterbacks who could run 10 years ago, but now there's so many quarterbacks who could run
11:46that it became predictable to predict quarterbacks for like a five-year period.
11:50And so Jalen Hurts and Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, we started taking quarterbacks high the last five years after a period where you didn't want to do that.
11:57And J.G. Zacharisen had this episode this week that was really good where basically he said, I think we might be back
12:04to taking quarterbacks in the late rounds because now there are so many quarterbacks who can run.
12:09And I wanted to read you guys the stat and then get your, and basically I'm curious what you think of this.
12:15J. G. Zacharisen had this great stat that from 2010 to 2020, basically, there was an average of three quarterbacks a year
12:21that got three points a game from rushing, three fantasy points a game.
12:25Just three. From rushing points. Yeah. So three guys doing that.
12:28Last year, there were 16. Wow. 16 quarterbacks averaged three points a game from rushing.
12:32So it's not just Jackson Dart and Lamar Jackson, but even like Brock Purdy and Trevor Lawrence and Justin Herbert.
12:38So my question for you is, do you want to be trying to get like Josh Allen in like the late second
12:44round instead of like a Drake London or Trey McBride?
12:47Or do you want to just say screw it and just kind of grab whatever quarterback and be the last person to take a quarterback?
12:54Like, like where, where, what are you guys, I'm not going to hold you to this in July 14th, which is when
13:00we're recording this, but gut check right now. Would you rather be one of the first two people to take a quarterback or literally last by a mile?
13:08That's a tough question. I think, I think I lean late.
13:12I definitely lean going with it late. I do think that we're going to talk about some of these guys.
13:17Like, I think Lamar Jackson's probably going to be a pretty good value this year.
13:22I do think he's going to bounce back. I think the Malik Willis thing is, on the other hand, is an interesting
13:28one because I think he's the Justin Fields of the season where you can take him late.
13:33You can hope for a ton of rushing upside and touchdowns and all that.
13:37But how secure is he in his starting role?
13:39Like, are the Dolphins really going to stick with him all year?
13:43There is a little bit of risk there. So I think I definitely lean going late though.
13:47I think the nice thing about this season is quarterback does not need to be like a huge priority.
13:53I think if Josh Allen feels like he's fallen to an appropriate place, you can take him.
13:58And I probably would because like we just said, it's great having Josh Allen.
14:02But if you don't kind of reach for one of the elites, a Drake May, a Josh Allen, Lamar, whatever, I won't
14:08be sweating like I was four or five years ago when it was like, oh shit, I guess I'm just stuck with whatever pocket passer.
14:15While these other four guys have like these elite tier one dudes.
14:18Now it's kind of like, okay, if you don't get Josh Allen, you don't get Lamar Jackson, you don't get Drake May.
14:25Brock Purdy, Trevor Lawrence, like there are Caleb Williams.
14:27There are so many guys that I feel pretty comfortable with that I could start all season.
14:32I mean, you could, and you're a 12 team league.
14:35You could have every team take a starter. You could have three teams take backups and then you could get Patrick Mahomes.
14:41Yeah. Or Matt Stafford, the reigning MVP. It's a really, really, really deep year.
14:45Well, which I got to say, nothing makes you, especially the last few years with Mahomes.
14:50I almost think when you have Mahomes on your fantasy team, it's kind of annoying because his name is almost bigger than his fantasy performance now, obviously.
14:57So it's like, you're almost kind of even more upset because if you just took Bo Nix as your QB 13 and
15:04he kind of produced as the QB 13, you're like, well, it's Bo Nix.
15:08If you have Patrick Mahomes and you draft him as the QB 13 and he gives you QB 13, you're like, what the fuck?
15:15I thought I was drafting like the greatest quarterback of all time.
15:18And he's kind of average at fantasy. This is weird.
15:21You're poking him with a stick being like, do something.
15:24Yeah. I mean, he's solid and he was good in spurts last year, but it is Mahomes in a weird spot.
15:30Chiefs are in a weird spot in general. Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, we can get it.
15:35I mean, I mean, we could just talk about him now if you want, but I mean, he tore his ACL and
15:41he's going to play in week one, but he tore his ACL late in the season.
15:46I believe most guys wait for the swelling to go down in their knee before they get surgery.
15:51I believe Mahomes got the surgery the next day because he's like, I'm not missing week one.
15:56And but Mahomes, I don't know. I he's so reliant.
15:58I'm not going to doubt Patrick Mahomes, but he's so reliant on scrambling and being as DK would say about Brock Purdy.
16:05Mahomes is also a sneaky little shit in the pocket.
16:08Like his ability to outrun defensive ends. I'm curious what happens to Mahomes in the first week.
16:12Like, is he going to be a Ben Roethlisberger park and bark for the first month of the season?
16:18Like, what is Mahomes without scrambling going to look like for the first five weeks of the year until he's fully healthy?
16:24It's not just scrambling either. I mean, obviously, scrambling is a huge part of it, but it's just maneuvering in the pocket
16:30and buying time and spinning out and trying to find a little daylight and then stepping back up in the pocket.
16:36Like movement from him is so important, not just scrambling, but in the pocket, keeping the play alive.
16:41Some of the plays, I think that he ends up not scrambling and throwing the ball right before it goes over the line of scrimmage.
16:49You know what I mean? Like that's kind of a scramble, too.
16:52So so those plays are going to be effective as well as passing.
16:56Well, and like, you know, a few years ago when he hurt himself on that QB sneak, they don't run those anymore with him.
17:03So it's like he's got this ACL. He doesn't really do QB sneaks anymore.
17:07Look, Patrick Mahomes over the last three seasons, last year he was the QB four before he got hurt in points per game.
17:13He was doing really well. Year before that, QB 14.
17:16Year before that, QB 14. So it's kind of like and now it's like you have a Rasheed Rice situation up in the air.
17:23Travis Kelsey is 37 years old. You have Xavier Worthy.
17:26Kenneth Walker, maybe we're going to run the ball a little bit more and he's coming off an ACL.
17:31You know, we always joke about the guy who just shows up at the fantasy draft and is like, Patrick Mahomes is not a top 12 quarterback.
17:39This year, I'm a little bit dubious that I don't know how interested I would actually be in taking Mahomes.
17:44Yeah, I don't know. But that's a good example of it because the guys ahead of him all basically can run like
17:51everyone ahead of Mahomes can run or is Stafford and won the MVP.
17:54So or Dak who led the league in completions like that's really everyone ahead of him.
17:59So here we averaged five over five points a game from running last year.
18:03And I don't know if that's going to happen this year.
18:06It's because no one was freaking opening in a run because usually Mahomes would pace himself kind of like Josh Allen does
18:12now, which is Mahomes would really start to run for the crucial third downs in December and January in the playoffs when
18:19the games really started to like matter, matter. And he was very smart about like pacing himself for that.
18:24And then last year you saw that he just kind of had to do it immediately because the Chiefs started in that hole.
18:31So he was rushing earlier than ever in the must win games.
18:34But it's really like this card they to pull out and then he tore his ACL.
18:39So I don't know what the Chiefs are going to look like.
18:42But anyway, he's not one of our top 12 quarterbacks.
18:45So I want to start. So we have Josh Allen as our number one guy and we're giving him a tier of his own.
18:52And I think he deserves a tier of his own because if someone took someone other than Josh Allen at the beginning
18:58and they weren't a fan of the team, I'd be surprised.
19:01But our second tier here we have, and these are based on rankings at fantasyfootball.thamary.com, which we'll update soon.
19:06We have tier two is Drake May for the Patriots, Lamar Jackson for the Ravens, Jaden Daniels, the Commanders, and then Joe
19:13Burrow for the Bengals, who doesn't really fit here because it's like three incredible rushing quarterbacks that can also pass.
19:18And then Joe Burrow, who can mostly pass. DK, do you think Joe Burrow belongs in this tier with these other three guys?
19:25I do because of environment. He is sort of the perfect.
19:28It's the perfect storm with the Bengals in terms of a really good high flying offense, an offense that they kind of let him run.
19:35Jamar Chase, Tee Higgins and high volume passing and bad defense.
19:38So there's going to be a lot of shootouts.
19:41And I don't think their defense is going to get good enough this offseason to really change that all that much.
19:47So I think this is a bet on Burrow, you know, like a concentrated passing offense and a bad defense that's going to create high scoring.
19:54So I don't know if he fits necessarily in this tier.
19:57I might push him down a tier. I think he should.
20:01Because Drake May, Lamar, and Jaden Daniels could all be the second quarterback off the board.
20:05And you wouldn't think that's weird, right? Yeah. But if someone took Joe Burrow as the second quarterback, you'd think that was kind of weird.
20:12Yes. And I think I'm happy to move him down a tier.
20:16I think generally, though, like in this area, in terms of like he's a QB5 in our rankings, I think that's okay.
20:22But I think you take him over Jaden Daniels or Lamar Jackson, I might be suspicious about that.
20:27I agree with that. Also, it's worth noting, we say it a lot, even year for the Bengals.
20:322022, Joe Burrow, QB4. 2023, Joe Burrow, QB like 20.
20:352024, Joe Burrow, QB3. 2023, 2025, Joe Burrow, QB15.
20:38Yeah. It is a huge year for the Bengals because the Bengals are kind of like a small market NBA team that
20:44need to placate their superstars so they don't leave.
20:46Because, I mean, the Bengals haven't made the playoffs in three years, which is crazy.
20:51And if they don't make the playoffs this year, I think they're going to clean house.
20:55And because they really just need to keep Joe Burrow.
20:58I think the Bengals are worried Joe Burrow wants to leave.
21:01I think a lot of executives are hoping Joe Burrow leaves.
21:04And I like not in the Bengals, but like other teams want Joe Burrow to try to be on the trade market.
21:11And Burrow, like they kept up the entire offense for him.
21:14They signed Jamar Chase. They signed T. Higgins for him.
21:17They even kept Mike Kosicki for Joe Burrow. It's kind of like Luka getting like a rim running center with the, you know, the snow time Lakers.
21:24Like all these NBA teams that keep players that maybe don't make sense for the team.
21:29But that's what the player wants. And that's what the Bengals did with their offense.
21:33And then now they're going all in with the defense.
21:36They traded the pick for Dexter Lawrence. And again, the Bengals had not had a first round pick in the NFL draft since like the 1980s.
21:43So it's like the Bengals are going all in.
21:46I do think head coach, GM, everyone's jobs are on the line this season.
21:50But it's kind of on Joe Burrow because they're like, he's an all shotgun player in a league.
21:55That's like become all about being under center play action.
21:58And it's like, I mean, there's some amazing stats on it, but I, it's a, it's a huge year for Joe Burrow
22:04because I, just to give you an idea of what I'm talking about, because it's weird to talk about the Bengals.
22:10It's not being high flying, but there was this great stat that I want to give credit to from Paul Danner at
22:16the athletic lash or the last two seasons. There have been 1500 explosive passes that were from under center play action.
22:221500 Joe Burrow has one of them. Like they don't do under center man.
22:26Does not like turning his back to the defense.
22:29No. And I'm like, but that's how you do it.
22:32So I don't know. It's, it's weird to think of the Bengals is not an explosive passing offense.
22:37So I'm curious, but I do think he should be docked.
22:40They think that the people in the running for the number two quarterback, Drake may Lamar and Jaden Daniels, but I'm curious
22:46which of those guys you think should actually be the second player.
22:50Or is it more like, it doesn't matter who take the cheapest of the three of Drake may Lamar and Jaden.
22:56Yeah. Like if, yeah, I think, I think Drake and Lamar have to be, I would say I would drop Jaden in that group.
23:03If I had to pick Lamar, just because of the consistency and Drake may just because of like this.
23:08Like him literally basically almost winning the MVP last year was kind of enough for me to see.
23:13He was the QB two overall, but I want to talk about Lamar just because, you know, I was, I was pissed last year about Lamar Jackson.
23:21He ruined my life. He, he was like, he wasn't my life.
23:24You ruined my life. When we did the fantasy rewatchables, Lamar was not the LVP, but he was spiritually the LVP because
23:30it's like, he like, he was hurt. He had a nasty hamstring injury and the whole season was just kind of a mess for Baltimore.
23:38Took a million sacks. Yes. It was, it was so annoying.
23:41It was really bad, but I act the further removed I get from that season, the calmer I get about drafting Lamar
23:47Jackson again and not letting last year, like invade my thoughts.
23:50I'm kind of just going to be like, he hurt his hamstring pretty badly.
23:54And that's just kind of it and played through injuries a lot because he's probably, it's, it's pretty much just Josh Allen and then Lamar Jackson.
24:02When you really look at like the last three or four years, as well as like Jalen hurts, but like literally 13
24:08months ago, we would have been saying Lamar Jackson.
24:10Jackson is coming off a 25 point per game fantasy season.
24:13He destroyed Josh Allen, beat it. He threw for 41 touchdowns and ran for almost a thousand yards.
24:19That was in 2024 Lamar. And that's insane. Now they have a new situation like Todd Munkin's out.
24:24Obviously Harbaugh's out. They have Declan Doyle in there, Colin plays now who was under Sean Payton for a while.
24:29And then was under Ben Johnson in Chicago last year.
24:32He's 30 years old. He's the same age as Lamar Jackson.
24:35Declan Doyle. He's younger than you guys. He's young.
24:38He's closer to 29 than he is to 31.
24:41Declan Doyle. And there's like a lot of glowing reports out of him.
24:44Lamar and like Zay Flowers are like, this guy's a fucking boy genius.
24:48This is crazy. Sounds like they're doing a lot more like play action, stuff like that.
24:52And when you look under the hood a little bit, Lamar's really good statistically with play action.
24:57So I'm actually excited to see Baltimore be a little bit more diverse in their offensive play calling and not just have Lamar sit and shotgun.
25:05So I'm kind of high on the Ravens offensively this year.
25:08I think they're going to be really good again.
25:10And I think Lamar, you just throw last season out.
25:13Lamar's like rock solid number two or number three pick at quarterback.
25:17Yeah. I mean, Lamar is one of very few players that could average like over seven or eight points a game just from running.
25:24And he's been one of the most efficient passers when they'd allow him to pass.
25:28I think last year is just an aberration. And Craig, you mentioned that he was hurt.
25:32He tried to do too much. He tried to basically be a hero.
25:36It felt like for half the time. And he was like doing these plays where he'd run around behind the line of
25:42scrimmage for like five seconds and ultimately get sacked.
25:45It's just so annoying. I think Declan Doyle, theoretically, if you're talking about a Ben Johnson type of play caller is like
25:51on the details, you know, getting the ball to his playmaker, spreading the ball around, things like that.
25:56I think he could be really good for for Lamar Jackson to kind of like right to ship and get back to what he was doing before.
26:04So Lamar Jackson, I feel pretty confident with him going into the season.
26:08I think obviously like the track record is there outside of last year.
26:11The other I mean, I think you notice this as soon as I forget what week that was Ravens Lions Monday to football game was.
26:19I think it was very early in the season, maybe week two or three.
26:23And you noticed it immediately that the Ravens were having a ton of trouble with interior pressure and Lamar was taking way more sacks than usual.
26:30Part of that was the hamstring slowing him down.
26:32But nobody's good with interior pressure. You see Lamar and fast quarterbacks escaping edge pressure.
26:37But the Ravens guard sucked like period. Like they had two experiments at guard.
26:41They had Daniel Falale, who is like the biggest person ever tried playing guard.
26:45It was six foot eight. Yeah. It's like he's bigger than most left tackles and it was a disaster.
26:50And they had Andrew Voorhees, who like another experiment, a guy who like blood is Achilles at the combine.
26:56And they just tried to like see if they could get like a really cheap guard.
27:00And like he wasn't very good. They were pretty bad.
27:03And so when you have the two worst guards in the league, they couldn't pick up blitzes.
27:08So now the Ravens guards are way better. You have John Simpson and they drafted Vega Ioane in the draft.
27:13Now they lost Tyler Linderbaum. So it's kind of like two steps forward.
27:17One, two is interior linemen forward, one interior linemen back.
27:20I mean, a little worried about their center this year.
27:23But overall, like this to me is what by the dip means.
27:26People are wary of one of the five most talented people in the entire league.
27:31But the situation probably got better because frankly, I think a lot of Ravens fans were frustrated with John Harbaugh.
27:36Ravens fans are frustrated with the offense. Well, not the offense so much, but I mean, Jesse Minter coming in as defensive
27:43coordinator or sorry, as the head coach, but he's a very talented defensive coordinator.
27:47You look at like Mike McDonald in Seattle and we'll, you know, look how good the Seahawks offense was this year.
27:53When you have like someone hiring game recognized game, when you have a cutting edge defensive mind, like Jesse Minter is the
27:59closest defensive coordinator or head to Mike McDonald, I trust those people to identify the forward thinking skate to where the puck is heading offensive people.
28:06So I have no idea what to make of Declan Doyle.
28:09Maybe it's like Ryan Grubb the first year with the Seahawks where the offensive coordinator was a mess.
28:14But if it's anything like Clint Kubiak last year for Seattle, I don't know.
28:18I think the Ravens offense could be really good.
28:21And it makes me rethink that maybe Zay Flowers I should be more optimistic about too.
28:26Right. Well, I was going to ask about that because the only thing you might worry about with this Ravens offense is
28:32the lack of talent at the receiver position. I mean, you got Zay Flowers who has been their go-to guy, but he's pretty messy.
28:39Rashad Bateman has been more of like a role player, obviously first round pick in the past, but been more of a role player for them.
28:46And then they drafted two guys, Elijah Sherratt, Jacoby Lane.
28:49I don't know how much they're going to play.
28:51Devontae Walker, I guess, has been getting a little bit of buzz, but they have a pretty young and inexperienced receiver group outside of Bateman and Flowers.
28:59And if one of those guys gets hurt, like it's going to be kind of interesting to see how this past game.
29:05They lost Isaiah Likely as well. Now they just have Mark Andrews really at tight end.
29:10Right. And they lost Charlie Kohler, who's an important blocker.
29:13RIP Patrick Ricard went to the Giants. Giant fullback.
29:15But yeah, I think Lamar, I think the question is, what do you do with Drake May?
29:20So DK, with all that said, would you take Drake May or Lamar?
29:24I think that, yeah, again, a very tough one.
29:26I still think I'd probably take Lamar. Because if you think about it, like you said, by the dip, obviously he's not going to be cheap.
29:34But I feel like Lamar is going to go back up.
29:37And it's Drake May. Theoretically, it's like maybe he has a little bit of like he could only go down from where
29:43he went from efficiency wise last year. Schedule merchant.
29:46Just say it. Well, I'm not going to say that, but I just think like he was so efficient and so incredible and he ran so much.
29:54So many scrambles. He had a league high 57 scrambles.
29:56I think they're probably going to try and get him to do that a little bit less.
30:01Maybe they'll have the opportunity to do that less because the receiver is better.
30:05Drake May himself had a big game where he was like 21 of 24.
30:09And they asked him about it. And he was basically like a perfect passer rating.
30:13He's like, oh, that's not true. Because like I actually missed a lot of reads that I didn't know what to do in time.
30:20So I just ran and took off. And so that is a weird thing with young rookie quarterbacks and younger guys is as they learn the offense better.
30:28They don't run less necessarily because they're older. They do it because they know what to make the throw instead of like one, two, uh-oh, bail.
30:36And so actually you learned what to do. Getting the ball out.
30:39Yeah. So I think, you know, and that's not to say that I think Drake May is going to get worse, but I'm just talking about in fantasy.
30:47I think he could potentially like we could have seen maybe like his peak last year just because of all the running that he was doing.
30:55And that being said, I mean, he did get AJ Brown in the offseason.
30:58I think they got Romeo Dubs. Their passing game could be even more efficient and more explosive.
31:03So I still think he's going to be very good.
31:06But, um, the QB two, I mean, he was a QB two and overall points QB three and points per game.
31:12He had 30 past touchdowns, which was third most type of DAC.
31:16We know that passing touchdowns can be pretty very, uh, variable year in and year out.
31:20Um, so I don't know. I, I, I probably just lean Lamar because you get the floor of the rusher and, you
31:26know, if you're taking Drake May, then that's not like a bad pick, but I think you just have to expect that
31:33he could have a little bit of regression and touchdowns or rushing yards or both.
31:37Anything else on this tier? So we're, we're officially moving bird down.
31:40So it's basically Josh Allen's in his own tier.
31:43And then the people competing to be the second quarterback taken are Drake May, Lamar, and Jaden Daniels.
31:48And we seem to all lean Lamar. Uh, I think Jaden Daniels is the most interesting player in the first couple of
31:54rounds potentially, because obviously you have the super high variance of what he did his rookie year.
31:59He went 12 and five as a rookie, um, was one of the best fantasy quarterbacks.
32:04He, he averaged almost 21 points per game as a rookie.
32:07Um, and so, and he was the QB four, if you remove week 18, which you probably should, cause that doesn't count for fantasy.
32:14I mean, so, and then he last year, uh, he only, uh, he only, uh, he only averaged 16 points per game in seven games.
32:21Everything fell apart. He got hurt. Basically had one healthy game.
32:24He had knee sprain, hamstring sprain, dislocated elbow that ended the season, or at least ended it for a while.
32:30Um, and so coming back, I think his health is obviously a big question.
32:34That's always what we were worried about when he was coming out into the league.
32:38But if he can say healthy, I mean, he has elite, elite potential.
32:42He is like in that Drake may mold where if he doesn't see it right away, he's just going to scramble and run.
32:48And he's really good at that. Really explosive. Um, and there's a potential here for he, him being one of the like
32:54highest volume runners in the NFL at quarterback. So, um, there's a lot of questions with Jane Daniels though, new offensive coordinator.
33:01You guys tell me what you think. David Blau.
33:03I, I have no idea what to make of David Blau because we don't really have any track record.
33:09He has not been a play caller before. 30 years old.
33:1230 years old. Again, younger than you guys. You guys are basically calling plays for the commanders.
33:17You guys make fun of me for being old.
33:19These guys are younger than you. The amount of like backup quarterbacks that are like 30 that we're just given offensive coordinator positions is a wild.
33:27I know. We don't know what the deal with his, uh, with his personnel is either because Terry McLaurin is basically the
33:33only returning reliable receiver in this group. The tight end is unestablished.
33:36We got, um, Chica Kwankwo is new. Um, Ben Sina is still there.
33:40You got a receiver. You have Traylon Burks who is kind of a reclamation project.
33:44Can't say healthy Antonio Williams, who's the third round rookie.
33:47Um, and then at running back, it's again, it's what do we get from running back?
33:52It's Katron Allen is the rookie. It's a bad, it's a bad roster.
33:55It's a bad roster. Crosby merit. It there's so many questions with this offense.
33:59I don't know what to do, but I still do have faith in Jane Daniels for my fantasy point of view to,
34:06you know, throw the ball deep, run out, run around a lot, make some magic.
34:10Um, I do think he's going to be a very good pick in fantasy.
34:14I just don't know like what his ceiling is with these variables.
34:17I kind of think he should be in the tier below for all the reasons he is for me.
34:23Like I, he's like my second Lamar as their own tier.
34:26I think, I think Drake Lamar and Josh are like, if you did want to pick a different quarterback than Josh at
34:32one, it has to be Drake and Lamar. And I wouldn't like spit out my water if it was anyone else I would.
34:39So I don't, I don't think Jaden, I, if it was Jaden versus Lamar or Drake versus Jaden, I am not ever picking Jaden.
34:46I don't think. Yeah. I think that's fair. I think that's fair.
34:49Heifetz, what do you think? Same with Burrow. I would kind of put Burrow and Jane Daniels down with like Herbert and Lawrence and that group personally.
34:57I think following my own advice of things I've said this year of resolving to do more is if you say Drake
35:03May versus Jaden Daniels, just those words. And I think about it, I'm like, I kind of want Jaden Daniels just out of the principle.
35:10Well, 30, he fell 30 picks year over year out of principle.
35:13I want to buy the dip. But if I make myself say the office, the coordinator and the receivers, and it's like,
35:20do you want Drake May with Josh McDaniels, the coordinator, throwing AJ Brown and Romeo Dubs, or do you want Jaden Daniels
35:26with David Blau, Thronome McLaurin and the worst compliment, like a very bad two through seven pass catcher group?
35:31Probably should be Drake May. But I kind of don't want to.
35:35And I don't know if it's like there are reasons where I just kind of hate the Patriots, to be honest.
35:41I don't actually know. It's probably that, if I'm being honest.
35:44But so that, so then tier three then would become, so, well, if we keep Jaden, well, DK, you're the, let's say
35:50I don't want to move Jaden Daniels down, but Craig does.
35:53You're the tying, but you have to break the tie here.
35:56Are we moving Jaden Daniels down at that tier?
35:59I think so. Wow. I think, I think if you're tiering him off, it's Josh Allen in his own tier, Drake and Lamar in his second tier.
36:07And then we can talk about who's in the third tier.
36:10But if we have to even ask the question, wow.
36:13So you really think, but he's saying Josh, do you think Jaden Daniels really should be a different tier than Lamar?
36:19Well, Lamar has done it a million times. He's a multi-time MVP.
36:22I think the floor is much, much higher with Lamar.
36:25And, you know, he's still got guys that he's been around for a long time.
36:29I mean, he's been around Zay Flowers for a long time.
36:32Mark Andrews has been one of the most like reliable.
36:35Well, maybe that's not the right word. He's been around him for a long time.
36:39You actually hate him for his famous lack of reliability.
36:42Right. Correct. And then with Jaden Daniels, Jaden Daniels and Joe Burrow actually feel like an interesting tier into their own because they're very like similar players.
36:50You worry a lot about the injuries. They're both a little bit too skinny probably, but there's a leap potential if everything kind of plays out right.
36:58I just like the situation way better for Drake May than I do for Jaden Daniels.
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37:49Okay. So tier three, then we would have, we're moving down Jaden Daniels, the LSU boys, Jaden Daniels and Joe Burrow.
37:55And then the rest of this tier would be Jalen Hurts for the Eagles, Justin Herbert for the Chargers, Caleb Williams and
38:01the Bears, Trevor Lawrence for the Jaguars. And then at that point, I'm like, shouldn't Jackson Dart and Kyler Murray just be in this fucking tier?
38:09And we just put all the rushing S quarterbacks in one giant tier.
38:13Is that insane? No, I'm more in that camp.
38:15I almost think that we should just have Jaden Burrow, Hurts, Herbert, Caleb, Lauren, everyone that could run for 10 touchdowns.
38:21I mean, even Trevor Lawrence ran for nine last year.
38:24And then it's like, I don't know what to do with Bo Nix because he is mobile, but broke his ankle.
38:30But then it's like Purdy and Prescott and Stafford and Mahomes and like guys who are more passing base should probably just be the next tier after that.
38:38I agree. I think it's flat in this area.
38:40I really do. I think that's why quarterbacks deep this year.
38:44I think like QB four to 12 is like pretty similar.
38:47I'm fine with it. So I don't know what to do.
38:50Yeah, honestly, it's probably the right answer because I don't really, it's such a strange year because if you look at it,
38:56I think the person I want to ask you about is Jalen Hurts because Jalen Hurts.
39:01So right now we have him as like our sixth quarterback, but I look at it and I'm like, first of all,
39:07I just thought Jalen Hurts 11 offensive coordinators in 11 years is just that thing.
39:11I don't get said all the time, but you ever just think about that?
39:15Imagine having 11 bosses at 11 years. Like just, I can you, I was going through it.
39:20I was trying to think about all them. Link going back to Bama, Lane Kiffin, Steve Sarkeesian, Brian Dable, Mike Loxley, Lincoln
39:26Riley, Doug Peterson, Shane Steichen, the only guy he had for two seasons.
39:30And he made the Superbowl that one and played amazing.
39:33The Superbowl, Brian, then Steichen left Brian Johnson, Kellen Moore, Kevin Matulo, and now Sean Mannion.
39:37That is crazy. Sean Mannion. Another one. 34 years old.
39:40God damn it. Backup quarterback. But the Hurts thing, even last year, he was about like, he was a top eight quarterback,
39:47even with everything going wrong for the Eagles. I'm like, isn't Jalen Hurts kind of just, are you just going to take him at his floor?
39:54How much lower is it really going to, even if you think the Eagles kind of implode, is it really good?
40:00Like, is Jalen Hurts really going to be that much worse than where you take him?
40:05But it's, you're, you're kind of like leaving all the upside that he's actually good on the table.
40:10Here's my stance on Jalen Hurts. I had him last year and it was a mess.
40:14He was miserable. I had no fun. And I don't care that he was like, QB7, QB8.
40:19The Eagles offense was horrible to watch. Marie Kondo was right.
40:22Take players you want to want to watch. And I have Jalen Hurts in my QB10.
40:27They just lost AJ Brown. Like, I kind of want to just stop there.
40:31I'm like, they just lost AJ Brown. Jalen Hurts wasn't that good last year.
40:35The Eagles are kind of in limbo a little bit right now and maybe they will snap back.
40:40The offensive line wasn't as good. They couldn't run the ball as well.
40:44There's a lot riding on the fact that Jalen Hurts needs to have like 11 rushing touchdowns.
40:48And I don't know. Do I want to attach myself to the Eagles once again this year?
40:53And if it's like week two and everyone's pissed off because they just like score 14 points a game and win 14 to 10.
41:00I don't know if I want to be on that ride.
41:03I think I'm good is my point. DK, do you want to get on the ride?
41:08I don't know if I want to, but I think he is another one of these quarterbacks that's just like he runs
41:14so consistently and scores so many touchdowns. Even the way he runs is annoying to me.
41:19He can't throw on the run. He likes, yeah.
41:21When he's running, it's like, you know, my brother's had a baby and I'm learning babies can't multitask.
41:26You know, babies, if they're eating, they're not going to poop.
41:29If they're pooping, they're not going to be able to eat.
41:33So annoying. But I'm like, when Hurts is running, he cannot throw.
41:36Yeah. Even I just like, yeah. He's not fat.
41:39Like it's not that fast. No, he's not like angular.
41:41Like he can kind of run north south, but he's not.
41:44For someone who runs all the time, he's like getting away from people as much as you want.
41:50This will be the meanest thing I've ever said about Jalen Hurts, who I do think is good.
41:55And I will never forget how good he played in that first Super Bowl against the Chiefs.
42:00There is an element of Tim Tebow to him where you're just like, just check the box score after and he'll have gotten you 19 points.
42:07But getting there is kind of miserable. I really do think Hurts is really who John Elway thought Tim Tebow was when
42:13they took Tim Tebow in the first round. Yeah.
42:16Like all the intangibles you could ever want, work ethic, all that jazz.
42:20Like Jalen Hurts, he is the epitome of just a winner.
42:23He's the first freshman to ever play for Nick Saban.
42:26He went to the college football playoff every year, all four years he played in college.
42:30Like he's been to two Super Bowls. He's only 27 years old.
42:33Yeah. And he's been to two Super Bowls, one Super Bowl MVP.
42:37I believe to Mahomes' point in his career has matched what Mahomes did by 27, I think.
42:42But we don't know if he's good. And he's hot.
42:45We'll get to that. And he's very hot. We'll get to that next week, but he's hot.
42:49Very. I mean, look, he's hot. He, you know, I think women love that he is an all-women team of agents and reps.
42:56And he doesn't talk a lot, which is also very hot.
42:59That's a plus. And he doesn't really speak. It's a huge plus.
43:03For women, yeah. But no, I. Better to say nothing, whatever.
43:06What's the expression, Heifetz? Oh, better to say nothing and appear stupid than to speak and remove all doubt?
43:11Oh, that's funny. That's why people think I'm stupid.
43:14We talk for a living. We have to appear.
43:16I have to remove all doubt. Yeah, unfortunately. Here's his.
43:19Craig, to your point, though, like. Like, the rushing being less reliable than it used to be.
43:24I think, obviously, he's getting a little bit older.
43:26He's not old, but. He's 27. Rushing quarterback. Running quarterbacks tend to, as their career goes on.
43:31He'll be 28. Stop running. Here's the deal. I'm going to look.
43:35I'm just looking at rushing fantasy points per game.
43:37Going back to 2021. 21, it was nine points per game.
43:4022, he was over 10 points per game. Rushing only.
43:4323, eight and a half. 24, almost 10 again.
43:46Last year, just over five. Okay. So, basically, like.
43:48There's a specific. There's a specific play. I think we can talk about that.
43:52That kind of is the crux of your points per game thing.
43:56It's like, are they going to push push again or not?
43:59Is the offensive line healthy or not? Can they do the push push with Jeff Stoutland, the O-line coach, going or not?
44:05And I think it's a tremendous. Just. Burden on the offensive line.
44:09Like, it is a. That play. I think Jason Kelsey had a joke that, like, basically, every time they called it, it
44:15probably took some days off of all their lives.
44:17It says a lot that the NFL was like, actually, you guys can keep doing it.
44:22Yeah. As if that whole banding thing was just sour grapes.
44:25As soon as the Eagles, like, aren't that good.
44:28They're like, ah, fuck it. Who cares about that thing?
44:31I don't know. It's one of those. If the Eagles just start doing the push again and the offensive line appears healthier
44:37and Saquon can run to more daylight. It's the.
44:39We might feel pretty dumb for ranking low. But I agree with Craig.
44:43What it really might come down to. It might be as simple as this.
44:47If you like watching your quarterback and spending time with them and being like, they're on my team every week, dude, I
44:53wouldn't watch Jalen Hurts play all the time. But if you kind of don't give a shit and you put on red
45:00zone and you just like go to farmers markets on Sundays, you're just like out and you're kind of half paying attention
45:06to your team and you check your box scores.
45:08Yeah. Take Jalen Hurts. But Craig's right. It's not fun to watch.
45:12You know, it's fun to watch every other guy on this list.
45:15Yeah. Like, I think he belongs in this tier.
45:18He's just at the bottom of it for me.
45:20I have him as my 10th quarterback. Well, the other.
45:23So the other people here. It's a funny. It's really such a grab bag.
45:27It's Joe Burrow who could lead the league in completions or yards.
45:31It's Jaden Daniels. Who I think should be a tier above.
45:34Hurts who could also be a tier above. And then it's like the two six foot six, you know, Targaryen.
45:39You know, it's Trevor Lawrence. And then I guess Herbert's not really Targaryen.
45:43The dragon riders. And then the dragon riders. And then God and Caleb Williams for the Bears who I had a memento tattoo that was.
45:50I told myself entering last season that like when we have.
45:5320 new play callers in the NFL. I forget the exact number.
45:57It depends how you count it, but it's like more than half the league is a new offensive coordinator.
46:02And it's so hard to evaluate them. Not everyone's like Mike McDaniel.
46:06Some five-year history, right? It's guys like Declan Doyle and Sean Mannion.
46:09And we don't know what they're going to do.
46:12If they're going to be good at it. So I'm like, don't you want to just stick with the guys that we
46:18are pretty certain are great at this? Trevor Lawrence having a second season in a row leap with Liam Cohen.
46:24Kayla Williams have his second season leap with Ben Johnson.
46:26And then I like, I don't know. Everyone else.
46:29And Justin Herbert who gets Mike McDaniel. I think we should say clearly it's a talent maximizer because I could point to
46:3510 guys who had the best seasons of their career with Mike McDaniel.
46:39To me, it's like, shouldn't we kind of not overthink it and be like, those guys should probably be the priority here.
46:45And like, just not just look at the quarterback, but like overall context, there are three coaches here on positive.
46:51We'll like lift all boats with a rising tide.
46:54And then everyone else is like, I don't know if Jackson Dart and the Giants offense will be better or worse than what Brian Dable had last year.
47:01I mean, I completely agree. I think after Josh Allen, Drake May and Lamar, my next guys four and five are Herbert
47:08and Trevor Lawrence for the reasons that you outlined.
47:10Heifetz. I'm just going to be in on the Chargers.
47:13I don't care. I'm in on them every year.
47:16It's always a disaster. No one has torn their patellar tendon yet in Los Angeles.
47:20Also, you're in Los Angeles. You should be double knock on what about that?
47:24Yeah, I'll double knock. I'm just doing it for Herbert.
47:27I want to be in. I believe in all of it.
47:30He's like one of the more divisive conversations in fantasy and in real life football.
47:34There's like a real split between if people, some people think Herbert is the truth and some people think he's incredibly overrated.
47:41He's the truth. Everyone else is wrong. They're wrong.
47:43I agree. I hate that it's become like you're a hipster if you think Herbert's good.
47:48Give me a break. I'm sure half the people right now are listening are like, well, he's never done anything in the playoffs.
47:54They lost the playoffs again. First of all, the idea that week 18, that like winner makes the playoffs game and Justin
48:00Herbert had, I would say maybe the best regular season game I've seen since Peyton Manning.
48:05Against the Raiders, right? Four. Yeah. Four different fourth and five plus that he can like probably one of the best fourth quarters I've ever seen.
48:12And if they won the game, they made the playoffs.
48:15That's a playoff game. Also, the idea that they got rocked by the Patriots last year in the playoffs, how many quarterbacks
48:22get that Chargers team to the playoffs and a team that played eight different people at left tackle?
48:27Like the fact that he got the Chargers to the playoffs is out of control.
48:31Yeah. Let me run through a little bit about Herbert and why I'm into him.
48:35So he's, he's, he was the QB six last year through, through, through the first nine weeks.
48:40He was playing really well. And honestly, they were already hamstrung.
48:43Rashawn Slater, they're, they have two top 10 tackles in the NFL.
48:47Now, Rashawn Slater and Joe all, Rashawn Slater tore his patellar 10 and before the season even started.
48:52So they got zero games out of him. He got four games with Joe all four full games.
48:57The other two Joe all went down with an injury.
49:00So he really got four full games with one of his two top 10 tackles in the four games that Justin Herbert played with Joe all.
49:07He averaged 21 fantasy points per game, which would have been the QB one last year.
49:12I remember watching week one against the Chargers. I think it was down in, or against the chiefs down in Brazil.
49:18I think. Yeah. He was fucking awesome. They kicked the shit out of the chiefs.
49:22And I was like, holy shit, that's finally happening for the Chargers.
49:25And then the wheels fell off and everything was a mess.
49:28And Justin Herbert gets the shit kicked out of him every single season.
49:32They put a lot of effort into improving their offensive line.
49:35They drafted a second round guy, Jake Slaughter. They brought in Tyler Biotish to be their center.
49:40They have Cole strange at guard Slater and Joe all are knock on wood going to be back this year.
49:46But to, to go back through like the first half of last season when Herbert was playing really well when he was
49:52the QB six, he was running a lot. He led all quarterbacks and rushing yards per game through the first nine weeks of the season last year.
50:00And now you bring in Mike McDaniel, which is like the most significant coordinator change in the NFL, in my opinion.
50:06Like maybe you can say Philadelphia because of what Petulo did.
50:09But like, I don't need to go through all the Tua stats and like what McDaniel did for the Dolphins.
50:15They scored over 70 points in a game. Tua led the NFL in passing yards in 2023.
50:19And now in this like Shanahan system that Mike McDaniel runs, I feel like that system is about elevating like honestly like
50:26a mediocre quarterback and getting them to do great things.
50:29Look at like Tua and like Brock Purdy. I'm not saying Brock Purdy is mediocre because I love him, but like limited physically.
50:35Herbert is like, Rich Rebar pointed this out. I thought it was a great point that Herbert is like the greatest physical
50:41talent that the Shanahan system has ever seen. A hundred percent.
50:45Steven O'Reilly and I used to joke that if Justin Herbert played for Kyle Shanahan, he would have, he would break the Peyton Manning touchdown record.
50:52Matt Ryan won an MVP with Kyle Shanahan. And now, now this system gets fucking Terminator Justin Herbert.
50:57Like I'm just, I'm not, I'm just doing it.
51:00I'm believing. I'm just doing it. I could not agree harder with everything you're saying.
51:04I know everyone's been like, it's not new analysis to be like, oh, Mike McDaniel, Chargers will go well.
51:09I actually think somehow it's being underrated because it's two things that are really hard to quantify.
51:14It's hard to quantify how much the worst offensive line in the league becoming average can matter.
51:19And then Mike, it's hard to quantify the Chargers.
51:22I think passing game wise, like Greg Roman being off as a coordinator going to Mike McDaniel.
51:26It reminds me of like Bill Barnwell at Grantland, like 15 years ago, talked about Mike Singletary to Jim Harbaugh might be
51:33the best coaching upgrade in the history of the league.
51:36And then the Chargers, then 49ers went to like three straight NFC championship games.
51:39And I think coordinator wise, I'm not going to go that far, but Greg Roman to Mike McDaniels, one of the bigger
51:46offensive coordinator, like pole to pole upgrades. I can remember it's certainly up there.
51:50And so you think about what Mike McDaniels done, where it's not just like Tyree Kill, who did have his best seasons
51:56of his career in Miami, not Kansas City. And Tua, who looking back at what Tua was able to accomplish is amazing.
52:02But players like Aaron Brewer, who's like the center on Miami, who was one of the best offensive linemen in the league.
52:09And like the Dolphins brought him in. Like there were like a lot of players that on offense that Mike McDaniel brought the absolute best out of.
52:16Like when coaches consistently maximize players' careers at all these different positions, that's a great sign.
52:21And then you combine that with the Chargers where they were, do you remember the meme last year where the PFF grades on the Chargers offensive line?
52:28And the meme was, the Sunday football, they had Austin Deculis, who was the lowest rated left tackle at 38 out of 38.
52:35And then the center was Bradley Bozeman, who was 36 out of 36 at center.
52:39And then Mekhi Becton was the 37th out of 38th ranked right guard.
52:43And then the last ranked right tackle. Like that was Sunday night football and he brought the team to the playoffs.
52:49When that becomes an average offensive line, and then you have a coaching upgrade.
52:53I actually, I think Herbert, this is like MVP level season for Herbert.
52:57And again, this is, even though Ladd McConkie already goddamn has an injury and it's bothering me.
53:02I think Ladd McConkie or Quentin Johnson is going to be one of the most underrated players in the NFL.
53:07And if Ladd misses time, every week Ladd misses, Quentin Johnson is going to be like a top, I think a top
53:1312 receiver is in play for him every week.
53:16And I think Ladd, when he plays, is going to eat.
53:19I think every part of this is the most important offensively for fantasy.
53:23You talked about the greatest upgrade from coaches going from Singletary to Harbaugh.
53:27And, you know, this is another strong upgrading coach.
53:29But like, think about the difference physically between Tua and Herbert.
53:32I don't think physically you could have like a greater delta.
53:35Tua cannot do anything if he doesn't get the ball out of his first read.
53:40Like, he can't move. He can't throw on the run.
53:43We've talked about his arm strength, ad nauseum. You know the Stephen A.
53:46Smith rants on quadruple. It's crazy the difference between these two human beings in terms of physical talent.
53:51You know, like Justin Herbert, like, physically is incapable of underthrowing somebody.
53:55Right. Like, Justin Herbert, you know, for all the reasons people don't like Justin Herbert, like, he could make the most insane
54:01throws you've ever seen in your life. Like, he has a fucking howitzer for an arm.
54:06He can throw. He can make any throw. And he's also the process.
54:09And I know that's a cliche. He's not just like big arm throw fast.
54:13He's like actually can process and go through his progression.
54:16He's a better processor than Tua. Tua does it fast.
54:19But Tua is sometimes guilty of like looking at the play on Matt and just deciding what he's going to do pre-step.
54:25Herbert's reading it in real time. So I think he's a better processor than Tua.
54:30And he has weight. His physical tools are up there with Josh Allen, not bottom of the league.
54:35So no, I think I agree. It's easy to be like, oh, Mike McDaniel.
54:39Good. No, no, no. The range of outcomes is like elite.
54:42So I yeah. So yeah, it's just going to be fun to see what McDaniel can do with a guy who can
54:48not only do everything that Tua can do first read wise, but also move and make things second action plays and all that stuff.
54:55It's just going to be so much fun to see what he can cook up.
54:59And by the way, he's one of the best run game designers that we've seen.
55:03So the Chargers should have a theoretically should have a very good run game to balance everything out, help them do play
55:10action a little bit or like help them have more balance and and keep defenses on their toes basically because they can
55:16run the ball and throw it over your head.
55:19Play action. So with all that said, would you rather DK?
55:22Would you rather have Justin Herbert or Jalen Hurts?
55:24Come on. I mean, come on. Who do you want to watch?
55:28Would you rather have Herbert or Caleb Williams? Probably Herbert.
55:30I think Caleb Williams is definitely getting up there, but probably just take Herbert for the accuracy and everything.
55:36I think Caleb Williams is like way more volatile.
55:38Yeah. Caleb Williams is like like hot and crazy.
55:41Yeah. Do we want to talk about Caleb Williams right now?
55:44Because I think he is one of the most interesting players in fantasy as well this year.
55:49He's kind of in that Jane Jane Daniels mold where it's like he could be the QB two or one.
55:55It wouldn't really shock me or he could fall and just like implode and it wouldn't really shock me either.
56:00Um, I think the, the best bet you can have with Caleb Williams is it's more likely than not that he is
56:07going to be on a rocket ship in year two within Ben Johnson's offense.
56:11We saw the improvement from what he did the year before Ben Johnson came and then what he did under Ben Johnson's tutelage.
56:17There was so many small things that we saw with Ben John, like even just like even the sideline demeanor, the thing
56:23like his, his calm collected on the details. Caleb Williams took way, way, way fewer sacks.
56:28It was a massive thing. Like coming out of his rookie year, a lot of people thought Caleb Williams was going to
56:34be a massive bust just because he can't stop taking sacks.
56:37Like the sack rate was so astronomically high that the thought process was like, basically there's never been a quarterback that had
56:44this, that took this many sacks that ever ended up being good.
56:47And so there was a lot of theories and thoughts that he just might not be good.
56:52He just takes way too many sacks. I think people confuse that for he's protecting the ball.
56:57He doesn't want to throw interceptions. He's like Aaron Rogers in that regard where he just does not throw picks.
57:02He has not thrown picks in his career. He refuses to throw the ball, um, into tight coverage when he can't really see it.
57:09So he just ends up taking a sack or he tries to scramble and whatever.
57:14Um, so I think the sack thing was a massive, massive, massive improvement last year.
57:18I think theoretically, and you can, I think you can project going into next year, another year in Ben Johnson system.
57:24I really trust Ben Johnson a lot. I just think he's shown over the last few years, like the, the attention to
57:30detail, the play sequencing, the way he uses the run game, the way he takes pressure off of his quarterback, the way he instills confidence in his quarterback.
57:38I think all those things bode really, really well for Caleb Williams going forward.
57:42The offensive line, I think should continue to get better.
57:45And Caleb Williams last year was the QB eight in points per game.
57:49Um, in a large part because he also ran the ball quite a lot in terms of scrambling.
57:54He was the fifth most scrambles in the NFL.
57:56He had 76 total runs in the season. Um, he misses a lot of throws.
58:01Like his, his accuracy was horrific at times. Um, but again, it's kind of like that.
58:05It is a little bit like that Aaron Rogers thing where it's like either you either see it and you, you drop
58:11it in a bucket downfield or you just kind of chuck it away from the defense.
58:16I don't know. Like the off target. I think there's the accuracy criticisms of Caleb Williams, I think are not understanding what he's trying to do.
58:23Cause sometimes I think he's incredibly accurate. He's just, yeah, it depends on the chart.
58:28It goes sometimes there are some misses, but I mean, he, yeah, his off target throw rate is really, really high.
58:34And it's kind of strange because I think in college he was generally pretty accurate.
58:38That's because of the definite. I think that that's frankly like bad.
58:41Like for example, if there's a receiver in the end zone, you're taught to throw his feet so that if he catches
58:48it or it bounces off the ground, but you don't want to turn over in the end zone.
58:53But if you take that logic to like the sideline, if you're putting it in a place where only the receiver can
58:59get it, depending on the charting and how it's being done, that, in theory could get charted as off target.
59:05But Caleb Williams might've hit a bullseye and where he was aiming the pass.
59:09Like the charting is not perfect. I guess I do.
59:12Yes. I think that there's definitely a gray area, but that being said, I've, I've seen him miss.
59:17He does have strange. I've seen him miss pretty horrifically.
59:19A lot of deep balls that were just sailing.
59:22Yes. He does have straight. Well, who knows? Maybe it was DG Moore and walked off the field.
59:27Like maybe he was supposed to be there. I don't know.
59:30I think my question, my question with Caleb is just the bears ended up just trailing at the end of every game
59:37for basically two and a half months straight. And we were wondering if a Pope was just actually proving that God was
59:43real because the bears just kept winning games and playing games out of their ass.
59:47And they're not going to be in these things to be throwing for the final 20 minutes of every game.
59:53I think that'll get mitigated by the fact that there's just going to get better.
59:57I think that Caleb, Colson Loveland, Luther Byrd, everyone involved in the team is so young and everyone's going to be better.
60:03My only issue is that I think Ben Johnson, they want to be a running team.
60:08I think Ben Johnson wants to be a running team and that they're probably, it's like Craig was always like disgusted every
60:14time the lines were inside the first two, like two yard line that, oh, well, Jared Goff's not going to get a touchdown here.
60:21That's really the only concern is I think the bears are going to be running the ball inside the three yard line all the time.
60:28They're like the anti-Rams. I just think the thing with the bears is I just don't see it.
60:33I don't see any major red flags. Like I just kind of look across the board and I'm like, I like the offensive line.
60:40I love the play caller. I like the skilled players.
60:43I like the quarterback. Kind of just like all of it.
60:46I'm like year two under Ben Johnson. They threw a lot at Caleb in year one.
60:51You have to imagine the year two, like he is going to be so much more comfortable.
60:55I, I just kind of, there's not a lot I don't like.
60:59Other than Caleb's volatility, I guess. I guess it just depends on really what you think of Caleb.
61:04So I think here's the, here's the question that I have then.
61:07So if you're saying Josh Allen's in a tier of his own and then it's like Drake May or Lamar Jackson, it's the second quarterback off the board.
61:15And then at that point it's like Jaden Daniels, Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts, Justin Herbert, Caleb Williams, Trevor Lawrence.
61:21And then you got Jackson Dart and Kyler as the 10th and 11th quarterbacks.
61:25Do you see a big enough difference? Cause there are red flags that Jackson Dart, obviously we don't know about the offense.
61:31We don't think he can stay in the field.
61:34Sophomore slump, all that jazz. And then Kyler Murray, who, I mean, I think he's underrated at this point.
61:39Do you see a big enough difference between Herbert, Caleb Williams, Trevor Lawrence and Hurts that you want to reach for one of those guys?
61:46Or are you okay, you okay waiting and waiting and waiting and getting Dart and Murray and waiting around or two?
61:52I think Dart and Murray probably should be a, a, a notch below.
61:56Greg? I agree. There's more risk involved. I feel more confident that if Justin Herbert plays 16 games, 17 games, I, I
62:02think I know what he will be, I, I don't necessarily know if Jackson Dart or Kyler Murray play all 17 games that like they will deliver.
62:10I don't feel 100% confident in that, but I do.
62:13Also just don't feel that confident. They're going to play 17 games.
62:16Sure. Well, GTA six is probably going to get pushed, which could be really game changing for Kyler.
62:21Like if you take Kyler thinking the GTA six is going to ruin his life, but then GTA gets pushed again, you could have a really good.
62:29So when is that coming out? I think that they say early December.
62:33Now let me check GTA six release date. Um, no, no, November 19th, but they got to push that right now.
62:39It's probably, they probably stick to it. They pushed it two years.
62:42So you get how you get two thirds of a season of Kyler, unless they pushed you at Grand Theft Auto.
62:48Can I ask a question? Um, I would like to suggest that Brock Purdy be included in this tier and I don't understand why he's not.
62:55We haven't. So the tier four would be Jackson, Dart, Kyler Murray, Bo Nix, Brock Purdy, Dak Prescott, Stafford and Holmes.
63:01The other tier, the one above him. With Caleb Williams.
63:04You want Brock Purdy, a tier above Jackson, Dart, and Kyler?
63:07Yeah. Why isn't he? Uh, I would argue because, because he was the last pick in the draft like eight years ago.
63:14Because he got hurt. No, I think the answer is very simple.
63:17It's that I, I think if I told you that one of these guys was the number two quarterback and like Josh
63:23Allen was the number one quarterback this year. And then this guy was second.
63:27You'd be like, that makes sense for Jaden Daniels.
63:30No question. Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts, Herbert, Caleb and Trevor Lawrence.
63:33It's not weird. And if I told you Brock Purdy was the second best quarterback this year, you'd be like, really?
63:39Like, I just think it's like more surprising. Like, I think that his ceiling is a little, he's like a really high
63:45floor guy, but I don't think, I think you'd be surprised if over the course of a season, Brock Purdy was better like than everybody except Josh Allen.
63:53I mean, you're right in that he has a high floor, but I don't think people realize how high the floor is.
63:59Like over the last three years combined, he is the QB six.
64:03Over the last three years combined, he is first in the NFL in EPA per drop back and first in success rate.
64:09He was the QB six in points per game last year.
64:12We talked about Trevor Lawrence being like amazing in the playoffs last year.
64:16Brock Purdy in the fantasy playoffs last year had the second best fantasy playoff performance in NFL history.
64:21He had 94 fantasy points in the fantasy playoffs and he missed half the season with turf toe and he's been banged up a lot.
64:28Like he had shoulder stuff in 2024. He obviously had the elbow thing in 2023 and he had turf toe last year,
64:35but in the eight games he played last year, albeit beat up, he was on pace for 43 touchdowns, 38 passing and five rushing.
64:41I'm, he's never not been a top 12 quarterback in points per game.
64:45I, I'm like, I think the latter part of that, I would put on the Niners lost Nick Bosa and Fred Warner, like immediately on defense.
64:52And I think the Niners defense collapsed and it led to more passing because the Niners couldn't run the ball.
64:58Sure. Which was so the Niners had to throw more probably than ever.
65:02Okay. The last, the last eight weeks of the season, if that, I mean, he was the quarterback one.
65:07He was the number one quarterback in the NFL in fantasy in the last eight weeks.
65:12Sure. You could say it's because the defense was bad, but like that is like as good as it gets.
65:18And to be like, he's not in the top three tiers to me, it's kind of crazy.
65:22I guess my, I don't disagree with anything you say.
65:25I think my counter would be Matt Stafford won the MVP last year and threw 44 touchdowns and we have him behind Brock Purdy.
65:32And we have Dak Prescott who led the league in completions two of the last three years behind Brock Purdy.
65:38And I'm like, yeah, that's probably the proper manners.
65:40I'm like, I don't know. Who do you want to put them ahead of?
65:44Like if you wanted to put Brock ahead of Kyler or Jackson Dart, I don't think that's crazy.
65:49I think you should be. I have him ahead of Caleb and Jalen Hurts.
65:53I don't know. What do you think of that, DK?
65:56I think it, I think it's a totally fair to put him right next to Caleb Williams or right above Caleb Williams
66:03and ahead of Kyler Murray and Jackson Dart. I'll tell you the reason people are more excited about Kyler and Dart is because of the rushing like period.
66:10Yeah. And with Hertz, the rushing, you know, obviously I think Purdy is a better passer than Jalen Hurts, but Hurts has
66:17scored a shitload of touchdowns with his legs over the years.
66:20And I think, I think Caleb Williams and Purdy are pretty similar in a lot of ways.
66:25I mean, if you look at what they average as rushers, I always call Purdy a sneaky little shit.
66:30He's a great scrambler. They are. They are similar scrambling.
66:33Caleb has way more power, but I agree that they're both pretty.
66:36But if you're looking at just points from scrambling, they averaged almost the identical amount of points from rushing last year, like three, three and a half.
66:44He's just, the problem is he's just, he's, he's a little cutie.
66:48He's, he's just, it's the reputation and people are excited about Caleb, where Caleb Williams is going.
66:52People are really excited in fantasy, at least about Kyler Murray because he runs the ball and about Jackson Dart because he
66:59averaged seven points per game last year as a runner.
67:01And so the upside is just astronomical. Everyone's trying to find the next guy is going to be the QB one or
67:08QB two because he scores eight to 10 touchdowns or more.
67:11And I just don't think that's in the range of outcomes with Purdy.
67:15So it's just like a floor versus ceiling, but you're absolutely right, Craig.
67:18Like everything you said is absolutely correct. So he's been a top 10 quarterback every year.
67:23He's been a starter. Why are we overthinking? I was actually wrong.
67:26He, over the last, over the last three seasons, he's the QB five, like three seasons.
67:31It's funny. Five. No, I don't just, you know, it's funny.
67:34It's reputation. It's funny too, Craig. I pulled this up and I wanted to be like, well, we rank him there because
67:40he, his touchdown rate last year, 7% of his passes.
67:43Well, I know I was going to say 7% of his touchdowns or passes were touchdowns.
67:48That's really high. Won't happen again. But he actually did that in 2023 and 2022, which is funny.
67:53I don't disagree with what you're saying. I think the point though, to me.
67:57Is quarterback is just deep. And I think that that's coming and we can keep going with some of these other like sleeper stuff.
68:04But I think the point to me is, I don't know if I want to take a Josh Allen or whoever this
68:10year, because whoever is going to be, you know, 12 team, you need a 14 team league, whatever.
68:15You're like, well, how is this person 12th? And like, you're, what you're saying is if Brock Purdy shouldn't be 12th, then
68:21you're telling me Dak Prescott should be 12th. Who I could make a very compelling case is probably the favorite to lead the league in passing yards.
68:29And again, led the league completions, attempts, all this stuff.
68:32Kyler Murray, who again, is a number one pick who say what you want.
68:36He ran for 500 yards two years ago, and it's now going to be on the Vikings instead of the fucking Cardinals
68:42or Jackson Dart, who was a top five quarterback for the weeks that he was healthy and played.
68:47And I'm like, one of those guys is going to be the last quarterback taken.
68:51You're right. Purdy's under underrated, disrespected West coast bias, all this stuff.
68:55It sticks at the seventh round last pick thing, but there's just so many fucking good quarterbacks, man.
69:00Like the way, the more we talk about this and Craig, you're like, the arguments you're making are very valid.
69:06I think this is one giant here. I think it's Caleb Dart, Murray, Knicks, Purdy, Dak, Stafford, Mahomes, like any of these guys.
69:12Mahomes was a QE four last year in points per game.
69:15And he's their 16th. We're not even acknowledging that Matt Stafford or Mahomes might be a top 12 quarterback.
69:21Like I literally just say they're backup quarter. It's one tier.
69:24It's one giant tier and it's pick your flavor.
69:26What kind of quarterback do you want? Do you want to take the risky thing with Dart?
69:31And potentially he's the next coming of Josh Allen from a fantasy point of view where he's running all over the place,
69:38scoring 12 touchdowns as a runner, blah, blah, blah.
69:40Do you want Bo Nix because he's in this Sean Payton offense?
69:44He's been incredible. Last year he was second in total pass attempts.
69:47Do you want Purdy who's just been, you know, as reliable as it comes in the fantasy world in terms of just
69:53because he's in the Shanahan offense and he's so good at running the Shanahan offense.
69:57And Craig's marinating in the Niners group chat. You don't forget all of Craig's.
70:01I mean, the fact is like every year he's started, he's been a top 10 quarterback.
70:06Top six. Yeah. Top six. So I think everything that you're saying is valid.
70:10It's just a matter of like pick your flavor.
70:13What kind of, what kind of risks do you want?
70:15What kind of upside are you looking for? Do you want the floor or the ceiling?
70:20My point is, is like he's going off the board at like QB 12, QB 13.
70:25And he's actually closer to like QB 6, 7, 8.
70:27And so I'm kind of like, this is kind of nice.
70:31I don't disagree. I just think the interesting part is you think he's disrespected by the ranking get in line.
70:36Matt Stafford is fucking MVP. We have him 15th.
70:39Patrick Mahomes is 16th. I'm like. But that's, to me, there's way more.
70:43Like Matt Stafford was getting injections into his spine 12 months ago and Mahomes just tore his ACL.
70:48And I feel, I mean, I guess like the Niners have Kittle or whatever, but I feel a little bit more confident in the environment.
70:55And I guess not. I mean, the Rams have a fantastic environment, but Matt Stafford's like 38 and I'm nervous.
71:00That makes me nervous. That's all. Yeah. The other thing is.
71:04Well, there's no subs. Are there substations by the LA facility?
71:07I don't know. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot.
71:10I would imagine in Los Angeles. Probably a lot of substations.
71:13Yeah. The other thing I think to keep in mind here.
71:16Nuclear facilities. If you head down towards San Diego.
71:18With Purdy and Stafford, the NFC West has a really bad, very hard schedule.
71:22All the teams in the NFC West have a very, very hard schedule this year.
71:27And honestly, maybe Purdy's not like, maybe he gets hurt too much.
71:30So maybe the answer is that we don't know what to do with, I think the other thing coming out here is
71:36we don't know what to do with this like weird tier of Jackson Dart, Kyler Murray and Bo Nix, where it's like
71:43Jackson Dart is reckless and had five concussion checks in 11 weeks and has a new coach or just coach and coaching staff.
71:49Kyler Murray, who, I mean, had a mid-foot sprain, went on injured reserve, did not return and then like was healthy.
71:55But everyone just was like, why don't we go our separate ways so you don't get hurt?
72:00We don't need guaranteed money. And Kyler's now rehabilitating his career.
72:03And then Bo Nix, who broke a bone in his ankle at a play that nobody saw in the divisional round and
72:09then like won a game versus the Bills and then walked off and then shot.
72:14You know, like all these are very weird situations.
72:16And that's Dart, Kyler and Bo separating like, you know what I mean?
72:20Like Brock and Dak. And we don't know what side of it to put on.
72:24And so really kind of becomes like a Myers-Briggs test of do you want upside with downside, which is Dart, Kyler, Bo,
72:30or do you want more reliable people that like it's going to be a harder path to be truly, truly elite, which is Brock, Dak.
72:38So it's really just a flavor thing. Let me ask you this.
72:41Out of those three guys, Nix, Dart, Murray. Who do you feel like from a perception standpoint in the average fantasy football
72:47draft is like seen as the sexiest pick and who is seen as the least sexy pick out of those three?
72:53My first impression would be that Dart is seen as the sexy pick because he because of what he does as a
73:00runner and he's still young, all that stuff. And then the least sexy pick would be Murray because he flames out every
73:06year and is, I don't know, really short. I feel like Nix is sort of the safe pick of those three.
73:12And then you got so he's kind of just in the middle.
73:15And then Murray is the risky one. Who knows where the how the hell that's going to go.
73:20And Dart is the guy who averaged he averaged over seven points per game as a runner last year.
73:26And I think that's like shades of Josh Allen or whatever.
73:29People could like squint a little be like, oh, this guy could be the next Josh Allen, even though I don't think that's going to be the case.
73:37But sorry, I think it's but yeah, I just think Jackson Dart.
73:40He's got an X in his name. Something there.
73:43Well, who's the who's the pucker fact the week one test?
73:46Who's the of these quarterbacks? Who's the one that has like an incredible first half?
73:50They go to halftime in week one and you're like, oh my God, I did not have that guy in enough leagues
73:56like I should have ranked him higher because like to me, if Kyler Murray comes out and the Vikings score three touchdowns in their first drives, I agree.
74:04It's that's the guy where you're like, oh shit.
74:07Right. Kyler was drafted top 10 in baseball and football and went to a shitty Cardinals organization and is now in like
74:13a good Vikings team and has something to prove.
74:16Like there is something to be said for having like a professional near-death experience with your career.
74:21And like look at Kyler actually, look at what J.J.
74:24McCarthy said about Kyler's like being mean to him or bullying him or whatever.
74:28But like the intensity that Kyler is bringing, I don't know.
74:31There is something to that. Yeah. I don't know.
74:33Anyway, but all that said, I think the point is quarterbacks deep and you can wait until what Craig said in the beginning.
74:40You can just kind of go with the flow.
74:42You don't have to stress about it that much, to be honest.
74:46I think you should. It's deep enough that you should have your preferences.
74:49Like you should know if you want Jalen Hurts or not.
74:53And like think two steps ahead about your lived experience of a Eagles team.
74:57That's tough to watch. And do you want to be on the Chargers?
75:00Maybe you're someone who hates dealing with the Chargers.
75:03You hate injuries and stuff. You can have those preferences.
75:06But I think the point is you can kind of just play it.
75:09I think more than any season I can remember, you can really go with the flow and just see when it comes to you.
75:16And just like I would have a list and just draw a line of like, I'm happy with up till these guys starting for me.
75:23And maybe that's my home is at 16. Maybe for you, that's like Brock Purdy at nine or whatever.
75:29But I think you can be very relaxed at quarterback this year just because there's so many dudes.
75:34And the worst thing that happens to you is you have reigning MVP Matt Stafford.
75:38I think this is. Yeah, I agree with that.
75:41I think that we move Trevor Lawrence above Caleb Williams.
75:44We make that a tier. And then from nine through 16, QB nine through 16, Caleb Williams.
75:48Sorry, let me roll down here. Caleb Williams, Jackson Dart, Kyler Murray, Bo Nix, Brock Purdy, Dak Prescott, Matt Stafford, Patrick Mahomes.
75:55This is the late round tier. So you want Caleb at a different tier than Trevor Lawrence?
76:00I think so. Is that right, Craig? I don't know.
76:02Why? So do you want to drop him down too in this tier then?
76:06No, I would push him up. I think the tier that Lawrence is in, I would add Caleb to that.
76:12Hey, Craig's saying he's saying the top. We're saying the top.
76:15So basically Josh should be his own tier. Then it's Drake and Lamar.
76:19And then it should be Jaden, Joe Burrow, Jalen Hurts, Justin Herbert, Caleb Williams, and Trevor Lawrence.
76:24And then you want to add Brock Purdy to that, Craig?
76:27I would add Purdy in. Did you say Hurts?
76:29Yes. Yeah. That would be my tier. But if you guys want to keep Purdy down with like Bo Nix, Tyler and Dart.
76:36You bully me on Purdy. You can find me.
76:39Move him up. The little guy's good. Nobody talks.
76:41The little guy knows what he's doing. He's not even that little.
76:45He just seems little, but he's kind of nice.
76:47He's kind of thick. He's got that cherubic little baby face.
76:50He does. He's a little cutie. Okay. So that's a lot of those guys.
76:54Are there any of the quarterbacks you guys want to hit?
76:57I mean, the next tier here we have after the, and again, so the next tier is Jackson Dart, Kyler Murray, Bo
77:04Nix, Dak Prescott, Stafford, and Patrick Mahomes. And again, Stafford, the only reason he's so low is basically just Stafford had 14 touchdown passes from one yard out.
77:12Like the Rams will be able to run the ball.
77:14It's just unlikely to happen again. There's nothing against Stafford.
77:17It's just hard to repeat that. And I think that they were actually stat chasing and trying to get him an MVP.
77:24Like they actually were just chasing the numbers. This episode is brought to you by NOS Energy.
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78:10The next tier here, we have Malik Willis for the Dolphins, Jared Goff for the Lions, Jordan Love for the Packers, Baker
78:17for the Bucs, Tyler Shuck for the Saints. You know, we could put Daniel Jones in there for the Colts.
78:22I don't really know what to do with Daniel Jones personally with like, what do you do with a mobile quarterback off an Achilles injury?
78:29It's basically just a bunch of like the bland vanilla replaceable pocket passers that could be really good, but you're not going to take over Stafford or Mahomes.
78:37And any of them could pop. Goff, Love, Mayfield, Tyler Shuck, if that's your flavor, because Kellen Moore, the Saints will run a lot of plays.
78:45I think the question is just Malik Willis. It's kind of his own tier, isn't he?
78:49He probably should be, because on one hand, it's like, in theory, he could run for a lot of yards because he's
78:56probably the fastest quarterback in the NFL at this point, because Lamar's 30.
78:59Didn't we put Fields in his own tier last year?
79:02We did. And Willis is similar. This is the Fields tier.
79:05He's as fast as Fields. He's not as big.
79:08He protects the ball more. But the irony is, I mean, Willis doesn't run that much.
79:12That's the funny part is, has he ran for 65 yards in a game in the last three years?
79:18Like, he hasn't actually shown he's going to run that much.
79:21But I also, I don't know what to do with Blake Willis.
79:24You don't? Yeah. He's like a good backup quarterback because the reality is, what's the difference in Goff, Love, Mayfield, Shuck, some
79:31Cam Ward, someone will be available on waivers as a pocket passer?
79:34Willis is like, you could take him, have him as your backup to like Kyler and just see what happens with the Dolphins.
79:41Sure. But I wouldn't count on him. Quarterback is so deep that I'm like, man, you can get Bo Nix, Kyler Murray, Purdy, Dart, Prescott, Mahomes, Stafford.
79:48All those guys are like outside the top 10.
79:51So I'm like, I'm not sure why you would want to have Malik Willis be your starter when you get all those other guys.
79:58Well, I think, I don't think he should be your starter.
80:01I think Malik Willis is probably the number one guy I'd have as my backup quarterback because it's just this, if like,
80:07what if Malik Willis is actually pretty good? The real answer is what if the Dolphins suck and Malik Willis is competent
80:13and he's doing what Caleb Williams was doing last year, not in the dramatic wins, but that the Dolphins are just always
80:20down 14 and they're playing prevent defenses in the fourth quarter.
80:23Malik Willis is racking up like 25, 30 rushing yards every fourth quarter.
80:26He could do what Jackson Dart did last year.
80:29Yeah, exactly. Just a ton of rushing garbage time.
80:32Jackson Dart averaged 130 passing yards a game last year.
80:34Yeah, exactly. But he was a top six quarterback down the stretch.
80:38And he scored in the Malik Willis. He scored nine touchdowns.
80:41Garbage time. Yeah. Meaningless rushing in the fourth quarter.
80:43Yeah. It's a messy way to live. Yes. On your own three-win team and you're just like hoping this guy gets you to 16 fantasy points.
80:51But you're not wrong. If I were going to take a risk on any of these guys, I'd probably pick Tyler Shuck.
80:57But what are his odds he's a top five guy?
81:00Yeah, I guess like a true, true ceiling. Maybe not.
81:03But last half of the season, he was top 12 guy.
81:06And I like everything about his situation. And talk about like, do we think he's good?
81:11At least I've like seen him play like 10 straight games rather than Malik Willis.
81:15How many times has he thrown more than 20 passes in a game?
81:19Like twice in his career. So, at least with Shuck, I have more of like a test case.
81:24That's also a Myers-Briggs test where this is why we try to do tiers instead of rankings and we encourage you to make your own tiers too.
81:31Because when we rank them, it's like, well, it depends on what you're trying to do.
81:36If you want a backup quarterback that will just be reliable for you and you don't want to set it and forget it.
81:42And if your quarterback's hurt, you want a player that I can put into my lineup and not worry about it?
81:48Yeah. Jared Goff, Jordan Love, Baker, or even Tyler Shuck are probably better options.
81:52If you, I would recommend, I think your back-end draft pick should be like extremely high upside players that maybe you end
81:59up cutting for another high upside player. Then I would go Malik Willis because I think if I had to bet on
82:05someone to lead all quarterbacks in rushing in week one on this group, it would be Malik Willis.
82:10And fantasy rules are stupid and rushing yards are worth three times a passing yard.
82:14So I go Malik Willis, but I also agree that Tyler Shuck's probably almost certainly a better quarterback than Malik Willis.
82:20I can't believe we're in a world where Tyler Shuck might be good.
82:24Like in our dynasty league, I literally took him.
82:27I was just like, I don't know. Nobody else is going to take him.
82:31I guess I'll just take him. And now I like might have a starting fantasy quarterback for the next 10 years.
82:37Nobody knows anything. No, correct. That's my lesson. Nobody knows anything.
82:40Okay. Any other quarterback? I mean, Cam Ward, Jones.
82:42Kirk Cousins is not going to bet on it.
82:45Rodgers is interesting. Is he? No. But. Any two quarterback league guys, if you're in two quarterback league, is there who else?
82:51Are there any quarterbacks? Mayfield is kind of interesting.
82:54I don't know. He may feel through 41 touchdowns two years ago.
82:57Sure. Contract year. The Bucs are not giving him a deal right now.
83:01And we'll see how that gets resolved. But motivated Baker, disrespected Baker is always the best Baker.
83:06He's also another guy that scrambles more than you think.
83:08He's like in that Brock Purdy mold where he's like a sneaky little shit.
83:12Sure. And I think Cam Ward is also. He was hurt all of last year.
83:17I actually saw this from Greg Allman who put together like the injury list out when when Mayfield was on the injury list.
83:23It was basically eight, 10 out of 18 weeks.
83:26Foot, toe, right biceps, knee, right biceps, knee, illness, shoulder, knee.
83:29Like he was just so big. He's a fucking dog.
83:32Did you see the video of him that everyone's in title right now golfing all these athletes?
83:37And did you see Baker go up to the sideline?
83:40He did the Dougie, right? Well, no. They threw him a like, I don't know what beer it was, but he shotgun with a bunch of fans.
83:47And he did the thing where he like used his teeth to make the hole in the can.
83:52That tracks. He's the fucking best. Not his first rodeo.
83:55Yeah. That tracks. I believe he said bad day to be a beer as he walked up.
84:00Like, come on. He's a QB four in 2024, by the way.
84:03Yeah. The only guy I'd throw out if you're in a two quarterback league.
84:07I kind of just think Cam Ward's good. And I think Brian Dable will get.
84:12I just think Cam Ward could be pretty like a very cheap.
84:15He could be an X factor for sure. Okay.
84:18Anything else in quarterbacks? So wait and get a quarterback that you'll like to watch play football.
84:23Yeah. There's so many now that are pretty good.
84:25Just like pick the guy you like. Okay. I want to do this backwards.
84:29I want to do a piece of news here at the end of the show.
84:33Just because we haven't talked about it. But the DK, the Seahawks sold for $9.6 billion.
84:38I know. Are you involved in that sale, DK?
84:40Are you a minority investor? I tried. Turns out you need a lot more money than I have.
84:46Five grand didn't cut it? They're not selling shares that small.
84:49Okay. Unfortunately. Yeah. 9.6 billion. Paul Allen bought the Seahawks, I believe, in 1997.
84:53I want to say it was like $160 million or something like that.
84:56Less than $200 million. Now it's $9.6 billion. It's a lot of billion.
85:00I did see, though, that if Paul Allen had just put the money he invested, he bought the Seahawks for in Microsoft
85:06stock, he'd actually have more than this. Oh, okay.
85:09Well, think about all this fun. Well, this was probably more fun.
85:12The friends he made along the way. Yeah. Probably had a better time.
85:16Also, by the way, he saved the team. There was a whole group trying to move it, and he stepped in and was like, fuck that.
85:23Dude, if I had tens of billions of dollars, I'm buying a sports team.
85:27Oh, hell yeah. And I'm making every fucking decision.
85:30And then your team is going to go down the gate.
85:33Have I ever told you guys, have you ever heard Jerry Jones' opening press conference when he bought the Cowboys?
85:39One of the first things someone asked him who's going to make decisions, he said, let me be clear.
85:44I'm going to decide everything from jocks to socks.
85:47Like, come on. It is one of the single coolest things you can do with a phone for the money is buy a sports team.
85:54It'd be like, they're mine now. Well, that's awesome.
85:57That's why it's so hard to run a team.
85:59Imagine buying the team for $10 billion. It's your whole life.
86:02You're excited to do it. And then you're like, yeah, the good ones don't do anything.
86:07Just ignore it. Imagine owning the Cowboys. Like, that's crazy.
86:10That's so cool. You get to work with your sons.
86:12Yeah. Oh, man. I own the Los Angeles Lakers.
86:15Like, come on. That's fucking awesome. By the way, this guy was a minority owner in the 49ers prior to this.
86:21Now he outright owns the Seahawks. He has to divest his 49ers.
86:24Well, all the like David Tepper who owns the Panthers was minority owner of the Steelers.
86:29You have to kind of become a minority owner before you can become maturity because you kind of get the inside track.
86:35So can I read you a little bit about this guy?
86:38So I don't know a ton about him, but his name is Vinod Khosla, who I believe is Khosla, who is incredible Wikipedia.
86:45Co-founder of Sun Microsystems, which is like original Silicon Valley computer company.
86:48Just worth an absurd amount of money. Just, you know, a very classic like tech guy, Wikipedia, just an electrical engineer in the 1970s.
86:55Just incredible timing with life. But can I read you a couple sentences from this guy's Wikipedia?
87:00Let's do it. First of all, he was like 25 years ago already known as like the best venture capitalist in Silicon Valley.
87:07But there was a like just investing in all these companies you've never heard of the 90s, making obscene amounts of money.
87:13But that was the original version of the workplace apps instead of a Jamf going for a billion dollars.
87:18It was like random stuff. But I just shit myself reading this.
87:22He worked at this company called Excite. And it says when Vinod Khosla was at Excite, he convinced the Google founders, Larry
87:28Page and Sergey Brin, to sell them Google for one million dollars.
87:31And then the CEO of his company rejected the offer.
87:34Wow. Damn. He almost got Google for one million dollars.
87:37I believe Google is now worth three trillion dollars.
87:40And the CEO said no. All right. By the way, his wife, Neeru, is going to be the controlling owner of the team.
87:46And I believe his son is going to be highly involved in this.
87:50So it is a family affair. All right. We'll get the family.
87:53Also, his company was the first venture capital investor in OpenAI.
87:56Ah. Yeah, we'll do it. I'm going to get that text.
88:00My mom's going to text me after listening to this episode.
88:03Why didn't you invest in OpenAI? Yeah. It's a good question, Craig.
88:06It was a charity. You should have made a donation.
88:09Come on. Okay. A couple of emails and then we'll do a Transformers movie club.
88:13Oh, God. Okay. Okay. Okay. This is from Patrick from Pacific Grove.
88:17People. Pat. Pat's breakfast is spinach, orange, banana, cocoa, water shake, and 30 milligrams of Adderall.
88:21Hmm. Okay. He's on. He's on. Okay, King. So, Pat writes, I used to live in a very rural area of California, the North Sacramento Valley.
88:29It is where they grow almonds. And you guys are making fun of me.
88:33Almonds. Because I don't pronounce the L in almond.
88:35I say almond. Almonds. So, he says the people.
88:38To throw a wrinkle in all this. He says the people in almond country pronounce them Ammon like salmon.
88:43Oh, come on. Come on. They say Ammon. With no D?
88:46Ammon. Oh, Ammon. Yeah, it's Ammon. You dropped a D as well.
88:50I did. But they say. Well, he says like salmon.
88:53But it's Ammons. They say Ammons. The people who grow the almonds.
88:56That's getting further away from the word. But it's.
88:59Yeah, I know. Ammons. That would have blew my mind.
89:01Okay. Language is wild. Then we got an email from Ben.
89:04Ammons. Ben. Bebo. Benjamin. He's so. Ben has emails for.
89:07He's an actual like he's an actual trainer in a college.
89:10Like he actually does like D1 sports. Okay. Okay.
89:13Athletic training. Like the sports medicine. And Ben says.
89:16Breakfast. Three scrambled eggs. Two ash brown patties. Ben says my primary role in sports medicine is treating soccer players.
89:21And that magic spray. When they just spray on the player.
89:24Yeah. Is just a cooling spray. There's no healing in it.
89:28Anything. It's just cold. So it makes the player go numb.
89:31And you go about the match. And he says.
89:33I have the spray. But I don't use it.
89:36Because I work with the women's soccer team. And women don't cry and flop about little bits of contact.
89:41Damn. So it is kind of like icy hot spray a little bit.
89:45It's just icy spray. Yeah. Yeah. It's just icy spray.
89:48Interesting. Well worn territory at this point. But like obviously soccer would be so much better without the flopping.
89:53It's the only thing. Stop it. Knock it off.
89:56The VAR just got. Just stop it. So someone had an idea for VAR.
90:00Not someone. It's Arsene Winger. Who's like one of the best coaches ever.
90:03Said that there should be daylight between the player and the defenders for offside.
90:07So that there's not these ticky tack VAR. Thought that was a good idea.
90:11Another. We got an email from Mark about hockey helmets.
90:14Mark. Mark. And bone. Because remember Gordie Howe didn't wear a helmet for 25 years.
90:19Right. Yeah. Yeah. Mark. One fried egg and an obscene amount of coffee.
90:22Mm-hmm. Mark says that. So the Hamlet drinks because on the.
90:25One egg. I don't see a lot of one egg.
90:28I almost said that. One egg is. You might as well not eat.
90:32Who's cracking one egg into a pan? Yeah. You know.
90:35That's interesting. One egg. He's got one egg. It is.
90:38It is true, Craig. It's like one egg is just not an egg.
90:41Come on. It's like no man's land. It's like you're almost hungrier eating the one egg.
90:46Yeah. You've ignited your stomach. Exactly. You've woken up your stomach.
90:49So apparently the NHL made helmets mandatory on July 1st, 1979.
90:52But any player who had signed a contract prior to that date was allowed to play without a helmet.
90:58So there are plenty of players that. That's stupid.
91:00What? I don't know. It's their contracts. I don't know.
91:03It works. They didn't want mutiny on their hands.
91:06Exactly. Imagine trying to. You tell the hockey player.
91:08You tell Happy Gilmore that he can't make the team.
91:11But so there's a few guys just went 25 years without helmets, including Craig McTavish.
91:15Craig McTavish, probably. What a great hockey name. Craig McTavish.
91:18Almost 20 years without a helmet. But if you think those guys are psychos.
91:22Mark writes that goalies did not wear helmets or any kind of head protection until 1959.
91:27Insane sport. So there were 50 years of pro hockey without helmets on anybody, including the goalies.
91:31How fast? How fast is like an elite slap shot go?
91:35Fucking fast. 200 miles an hour or some shit.
91:37What is it? I have no idea how fast.
91:40It's 200. It goes up to 100 miles an hour.
91:43It's probably up to 100. That's getting hit in the face with a like.
91:47Yeah. No helmets on goalies where you're literally in front of the thing they're aiming at is pretty psychotic.
91:52Not going to lie. It's I'm surprised it's not faster.
91:55It feels like you can't even see it. You know what I mean?
91:59You can see the pitch. Well, it's because you're kind of lined up right behind the picture.
92:03No, I know. Sideways. I don't think you can see the pitch.
92:07But still, it feels like it should be faster.
92:09Take it up with Gordie Howe. I don't know what to tell you.
92:13Maybe we need to get people are better at slap shots.
92:16I don't know. I also just read the first line Google Gemini gave me.
92:20I could be wrong. Happy Gilmore is probably putting a 150.
92:23Let me look that up. How fast is Happy Gilmore's slap shot?
92:27Come on. Is that goal regulation size or what?
92:29We don't know. We'll never know. Hmm. Damn. But anyway, taking a puck to the face.
92:34Can't feel great. Yeah. Block it with your face.
92:36Why? What if you shot me in the face?
92:39Like, isn't it natural human instinct to like hide your face?
92:42How does that even work? Well, that's the thing.
92:45It's like sometimes people think they can hit a pro baseball, like an actual fastball from a baseball pitcher.
92:50And it's like, I bet you couldn't stand there without flinching.
92:53Like just never mind swinging. I would just curl ball out of the way.
92:57Yeah. I have a couple other. You guys know we should get to Transformers.
93:01Summer movie club. Summer movie club time. DK, did you finally watch Transformers four months after?
93:06I did. You went hell of a way to kick off the summer movie club.
93:10Watched all two hours and a half. You fired a thing up at 7 a.m.
93:14this morning. Autobots roll out. I'm not going to lie.
93:17I put it on. Started at like 1030 last night thinking it would be like a crisp 90 minute show.
93:23You know, I don't know. I thought they made movies shorter back in the day.
93:27And then I looked it up. I'm like, I paused it at 12.
93:31I paused it at 1230. I was like falling asleep.
93:34I'm like, when does this fucking movie end? Didn't feel like it was getting anywhere close.
93:38And I'm like, damn, I have another hour. So I had to wake up a little early this morning and finish it.
93:44Don't bad movie. Oh, horrible movie. That's your opening statement.
93:47Bad movie. One of the worst movies I've ever seen.
93:50What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not doing this.
93:53Look, I am not. One of the worst movies you've ever seen.
93:57I'm not trying to be. I'm not pretentious. I eat quesadillas every single day of my life.
94:02This is the quesadilla of movies. This movie sucks.
94:04It's terrible. Oh, my God. It makes me a little.
94:07I judge you guys a little for liking this movie.
94:10This movie fucking sucks. I couldn't wait for it to be over.
94:13And that took forever. It just never end. It would never end.
94:17The only redeeming quality of the movie was like the cute relationship between Shia LaBeouf and Megan Fox.
94:22But that was like barely, barely worth watching at all.
94:25I don't. I did. That was summer movie club.
94:27I didn't want to start summer movie club off on a bad note.
94:31I love the idea that. You guys made me watch this movie.
94:34By the way, I have seen this movie before.
94:37And I think I just blocked it out of my memory because it was so bad.
94:41But I like the idea that we saw this when we were 12 and you're watching it now at 45.
94:47Yeah. Without your son. I can see why a 12-year-old would really like this.
94:51TK, I was 13 when this came out. And I would argue that there is no more perfect age than 13.
94:57Michael Bay knows what teen boys want in a film and he crushed it.
95:01I think that's true. I came away more impressed with Michael Bay after rewatching it.
95:05I don't think 12-year-old boys know what a good thing is though.
95:09You don't think Megan Fox talking about high-rise double pump carburetors squirting the fuel in so you can go faster?
95:14You learn a lot about cars. My dad was a grease monkey.
95:18I love it. A lot of guys don't like when you know more about cars than them.
95:23I quite literally, Craig, if you want to go through some of my notes, I said, it's like the script was written by a 12-year-old boy.
95:30So, well, maybe your distributor cap's a little loose, TK.
95:33I thought this movie was, look, it is what it is.
95:36But like, I don't know. I think there's a lot of charm to it.
95:40I think the supporting characters are like, honestly, the cast is pretty good.
95:44Like, I think Anthony Anderson is really funny. I love him.
95:47I love seeing John Voight, Bernie Mac crushed it.
95:50Bernie Mac was killing it. John Turturro. Yeah. Like when Anthony Anderson's screaming at his grandma, I don't know.
95:55This movie's also like pretty vaguely racist. All the robots have like very questionable accents.
95:59Sure. Which is weird because they're from space. Well, they learned from the World Wide Web how to speak.
96:05The World Wide Web. They're just like, they're going for the files.
96:08So, DK, you didn't like this movie begins. And I would argue maybe the most badass, cringy way ever.
96:13The opening line of this movie is, before life began, we had the cube.
96:17That's the opening line of the movie. Oh, my God.
96:20I really just dis... I'm sorry, but I just really dislike Michael Bay's shtick.
96:24Like the way he directs movies. It's like... Half this movie was a slow motion shot where the camera's moving from like
96:31a really low angle of people just like staring in bewilderment.
96:34The bad boys too. It's like a transformer going over them.
96:37It's like they watch Bad Boys one time and he's like, I need the whole movie to be this.
96:42I think Michael Bay's now actually underrated. I do.
96:45I feel like he's a punchline now. Michael Bay knows what should be captured with cameras.
96:49He does. Craig, I don't know if you noticed this too.
96:52Michael Bay knows what men want. Pretty much the entire movie has music in the background.
96:57It's one two and a half hour long action sequence.
97:00Do you remember that scene in Succession where Logan Roy, someone's lecturing him on what people want?
97:05He's like, you're going to try to tell me that I don't know what people want.
97:09He's like, I know what people want. Like that's Michael Bay.
97:12Oh, God. Kevin Dunn, Shia's dad's great. The guy from Veep, that guy's good.
97:16He is good. He is good, yeah. There are way more actors of this that I recognize that I ever remembered.
97:22I had no idea there were so many. There's some good cameos in the movie.
97:27Let's try and think positive here. Good cameos. You don't have to.
97:30Good music. Don't be positive. Say whatever you want.
97:33You didn't like it. That's okay. I hated every minute of it.
97:36I couldn't wait for it to be over. I've never wanted a movie to end more.
97:41You know what I kind of realized watching it, watching the Transformers transform?
97:44They kind of, because this was 07, made in 06.
97:47They kind of like make dubstep when they transform.
97:50Yes! They are like making dubstep. They are. And I was thinking about the popularization of Skrillex and all that stuff came
97:56kind of a little bit after 07. I was like, fuck, Michael Bay was kind of on that shit.
98:01There were some things that were ahead of the curve.
98:04I have to say, the one thing, not to step on the rewatchables here, but what aged the worst was Shia LaBeouf
98:11being just absolutely bewildered by a self-driving car. Now I'm like, I see eight of those a day now.
98:16It does kind of make you think about Waymos.
98:18Call one for $7. I'm like, yeah, you think they're Transformers?
98:22Dude, I can't tell you guys how much I thought Shia was the guy and how much he was my favorite actor as a kid.
98:29He was the coolest. And I thought he was truly going to be the next, I don't know.
98:34He was great, super funny. And then he was like, he did holes, Transformers, fucking Eagle Eye, Disturbia.
98:39Big stuff. Holes is incredible. I'm tired of this, Grandpa!
98:42Holes is part of your guys' hole. Holes is literally like millennial Mount Rush.
98:46I've seen this in a very godinal times. No, I've never seen it.
98:50So important. Young millennial. We might have to add that.
98:52We might have to add that. I'm tired of digging holes, Grandpa!
98:56What? It's too bad! You know what's funny? Transformers and Holes both have Jon Voight.
99:00Holy shit! Jon Voight. You're right. Yeah. He's the face of a generation.
99:04I was thinking about like the millennial movies that I love.
99:07Three of them have Jon Voight. Transformers, Holes, and National Treasure all got Jon Voight.
99:11Oh my, dude. National Treasure is in fact a National Treasure too.
99:15Dude, National Treasure. I actually think National Treasure started QAnon.
99:17Like it kind of all went from there. Yeah.
99:20They're just asking questions, you know? They're just asking questions.
99:23It's like if you watch it now, you're like, oh, okay.
99:26So they're talking about what? Like the eye on the money leads to a gen.
99:30I'm like, this sounds like, you know, pizza-gate-y. I don't know.
99:33I'm sorry. I said earlier that he watched Bad Boys.
99:36He directed it. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know that.
99:39Oh, you didn't even know that? Oh, you didn't know that?
99:42Yeah. Dude, I believe make the whole movie out of the slow motion shots.
99:46He has Megan Fox in a fountain in Bad Boys somewhere.
99:49I do like the movies The Rock and Armageddon.
99:52The Rock and Armageddon. Both good movies. Yeah. This one was painful for me.
99:56It's great. The Rock is phenomenal. Armageddon. Michael Bay just, yeah.
99:59Megan Fox really mattered in 2007. Megan Fox was very important.
100:02I did notice on, so I'm just reading the AI overview of Michael Bay.
100:06He's known for his kinetic camera movement, stylized lighting, and massive practical exposure.
100:10The kinetic camera movement annoys the shit out of me.
100:12Can we just have one scene where he's not like on a track?
100:16No. Just stop. There's a great- It's like stressful to me.
100:19Do you know the comedian Nick Swartzen? My cortisol spikes.
100:22DK? What's that? Do you know the comedian Nick Swartzen?
100:25Yeah, yeah. He had a great bit from a long time ago about Transformers, where he's kind of talking about people like you.
100:32Oh, God. And he's like, you know- Like me.
100:34We've just gotten way too uppity, and our expectations are so high now with movies.
100:38He's like, people go see fucking Transformers, and they walk out, and they're like, yeah, I saw it.
100:43It's okay. Yeah, it sucked. Transformers sucked. He's like, if they showed that movie to people in the year 1950, their fucking heads would explode.
100:51They would kill themselves after seeing the movie. All right.
100:53And now it's like, yeah, it sucked. When you're watching- Guess what?
100:57This bullshit is good. We don't- I disagree with you, Nick.
101:00We don't have to agree that this bullshit is good.
101:03It's not entertaining. It's not fun. This man like invented the modern action movie.
101:07Transformers was fucking crazy in 2007. I hated it.
101:09I wanted- I truly like was sighing to myself just in my living room watching- I'm like, when is this fucking thing getting over?
101:16Look, it is aggressively 2007, this movie. I want to look up the soundtrack.
101:20I mean, you obviously have Linkin Park at the end.
101:23What I've done. Did that hit for you, DK, when the Autobots roll out or no?
101:28Yeah, it's pretty good. You were thrilled because it was over.
101:31Truthfully, I got goosebumps because I was like, hell yes, it's over.
101:34Thank God. The sweet release. I was begging for the sweet release of death.
101:38Dude, that was my ringtone. What I've done! It was great.
101:41Banger. We got fucking Taken Back Sunday, Linkin Park.
101:44This movie is so 2007. I still- Megan Fox doing high-rise double pump carburetor and Shia LaBeouf's looking at her like- Look
101:50at her, and she's like, double pump? He's like quivering.
101:53I'll be honest. I laughed out loud at one point in this movie, and it was when he first meets all the
101:59Transformers, and one of them is like, this guy wants to fuck her.
102:03I can smell his pheromone. I mean, he doesn't say that, but he's like, this guy wants to mate with her.
102:09Yeah, he's like, this is our medical Transformer. I can tell by his pheromones.
102:13Yeah. And his giant erection. You didn't like the other guy being like, this is jazz.
102:17And he's like, what's up, homie? God damn it.
102:20Fuck. That was like prison Mike from fucking the office.
102:23He's like, Jesus Christ. This is really hard to watch.
102:26Dude, and it gets worse. I don't know if it's the second Transformers or the third, but there's one where there's like
102:32these two twins who are like little mini Coopers or something, and the accents there are tough.
102:37Well, I trilled off on the Transformers sequels. Oh, I watched.
102:40I've seen the first three. There's three sequels. No, there's more.
102:43By him. There's one, but there's something under the pyramids, and then they go to space.
102:48Transformers 2 has Shia and Megan Fox. Transformers 3 has Shia, but no Megan Fox.
102:52Yeah, I stopped watching those. And then it goes to Mark Wahlberg.
102:55Oh, God. Yeah, no, never tapped in for that.
102:58Yeah. I don't think I saw that one. Age of Extinction in 2014 with Mark Wahlberg.
103:02It is two hours and 45 minutes. Can I ask just like a genuine question?
103:07I understand that like the CGI is really, it was ahead of its time, maybe.
103:11I don't know. Can you tell what the fuck is going on at any point in time during this movie?
103:17It's just like so much moving stuff. I feel like I can't even see anything.
103:21It's all very close up and moving constantly. I feel like all the cool CGI is ruined by the fact it's all
103:27close up, and you can't tell what the hell is happening.
103:30I'm fucking done with this. I'm done with this.
103:33Maybe you need glasses. I just think this movie was horrific and terrible.
103:37All right. I can't believe you guys like it.
103:39Well, yeah. So next up, we'll watch Kingpin. Can't wait to destroy that.
103:43Hold on. Let's see how long Kingpin. Kingpin runtime.
103:45It's probably 95 minutes. 114 minutes. Oh, that's almost two hours.
103:49That's kind of sneaky long for a comedy. Damn it.
103:51Thank you, DK. Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Cam.
103:54You better be ready for the song, by the way.
103:57Thank you, Nikhil. Thank you to Carlos. Thank you, Austin.
104:00Thank you for listening. Thank you to The Seven for sending in hot quarterback rankings.
104:04We are going to have hot quarterback rankings for you next week.
104:07And thank you to everyone coming for the live show in Los Angeles.
104:11Go to theringer.com slash events for the show on Thursday, August 27th.
104:15And the tickets go live at noon Pacific on Thursday.
104:17Or sorry, Wednesday, July 15th. And so if it's after that time, then they're live now.
104:22So go get them. And of course, thank you, Lauren.
104:25Lauren. Well, I guess to stay in tune with what DK was saying, where he thought Transformers was legitimately bad, yet it was extremely popular.
104:32I'm going to bring a 2011 song that I think is officially the first legitimately bad song that has made the list of millennial bangers.
104:39LMFAO's Party Rock Anthem. Yeah. Which is not good.
104:42And yet was one of the biggest songs of my life in high school.
104:46I also popularized the first dance move that actually made you look lame the better you did it, which was the shuffle.
104:52You know the shuffle that they do in the song?
104:55I don't think I know. I know exactly what you mean.
104:58If you're really good at it, you look dumb.
105:00It looks kind of dumb. You have said to me in the past that if there was a single song you were
105:07most ashamed of for our entire generation, it is this song.
105:10Party Rock Anthem? Yeah. Yeah, I was decided between this and I'm in Miami, bitch, which is another song from them.
105:16No, this is the right choice. There's a point in your life where you learn that the two guys in LMFAO are
105:22not, in fact, friends or brothers, but actually one's the uncle, and that really changes.
105:26What? It's uncle and nephew. It's Red Fu and Sky Blue?
105:29Yeah, they're not of one is the other's uncle.
105:32And that changes the entire – it makes you reevaluate things.
105:35Does it make you reevaluate more to learn that before they came up with the genius name of LMFAO, they wanted to be called Sexy Dudes?
105:43That one is like a Targaryen level uncle. I think they both play.
105:46Yeah, and then their grandmother – they were asking what their name should be, and they told their grandmother that they wanted
105:53to be sexy dudes, and she responded LMFAO. And that's how they did that.
105:56Oh, really? It's actually kind of wholesome. DK, do you know the song Party Rock Anthem?
106:01Yeah. Party Rock's in the house tonight? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
106:04Party Rock is in the house tonight. I can't believe how big that song was for how bad.
106:09I'm embarrassed by all – I'm embarrassed for us that it was that big.
106:13Are they – is it sort of trying to be like a Weird Al Yankovic thing where they're like – like is
106:19it – are they trying to be funny? No.
106:22No, I think it was just like 2008. Trying to be cool.
106:25I think it's kind of just how it was.
106:28I think that whole look and vibe – I mean, Kanye in 2008 put out glasses that had little bars in them
106:34with no lenses and everyone was fucking obsessed, which in retrospect was the stupidest thing that's ever happened.
106:39No, those are from the 80s. They're from the 80s?
106:42I think, yeah. Really? He was trying to bring them back.
106:45They're dumb. They were also absolutely massive, and then everybody got them as a gag.
106:49Wait. Send me these things. I'll see if they were from the 80s.
106:53Craig, tell me if I'm overrating this, but this was just an absolute – Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about.
106:59The Kanye glasses? I'm going to drop them. These were – everybody had these.
107:03A stupid fucking pair of these. Of course. What was – the 2000s, the aughts.
107:08That was a weird – it was a weird time.
107:11Yeah. Yeah. What time wasn't weird? All the times were weird.
107:14A couple lines from Party Rock Anthem. In the club, Party Rock.
107:17Looking for your girl, Shionma Jock. Did they invent the phrase like Party Rock?
107:21Like what was that? Party Rock Anthem. What is that?
107:24Did they come up with that? I'm sorry for Party Rocking.
107:27I'm sorry for Party Rocking. Is that them? I don't know.
107:30I don't think I used it in everyday parlance.
107:33Like Party Rock is in the house tonight. What does that mean?
107:36I don't know. Every day I'm shuffling. It is catchy.
107:39And then it's like – and then it's Transformers.
107:42It's like if Lowly Island was like a real band that wasn't trying to be funny.
107:46Yeah. Like the movie Pop Star. That's a great movie.
107:49Yeah. Never Stop Never Stopping. Yeah. They invented the phrase Party Rocking.
107:52Okay. Got to give them some credit for that.
107:55That's just like – like yeah. I don't – I still don't really know what it means, but they created their own
108:01anthem out of something that didn't exist. I don't know what it means and it's not provocative.
108:06They created their own anthem out of something that had prior not existed.
108:10There's just so many songs like this that like will never return.
108:13Like in the same way that I – like I'll go back and listen to CCR.
108:18I love the Mamas and the Papas. I love ABBA and the Bee Gees and More Than a Woman.
108:23It's like More Than a Woman, number one song in 1978 or whatever it came out.
108:28Party Rock anthem was the number one song in 2011.
108:31Embarrassing. There's a 0% chance my child one day is like, man, dad, I'm going back in time and listening to LMFAO.
108:37They're pretty good. They might be playing it at parties, but like ironically.
108:41Yeah. Well, what's the – I will say though, what is the deal with ABBA?
108:45Because ABBA has an incredible comeback with our generation.
108:47But I watched an episode of Anthony Bourdain going to Sweden and Bourdain hated ABBA.
108:52Bourdain hated ABBA because he was a punk rock purist.
108:55And I got to tell you, of all the blind spots I have, the various rock subgenres hating each other, like I don't understand.
109:01It's like I don't understand it. But I don't know, DK, like I guess you're not old enough either.
109:07But like was ABBA hated at the time by some people for being too pop?
109:11I think ABBA was seen as like bubblegum pop and like easy kind of like uninteresting music, which I disagree with wholeheartedly.
109:17Yeah. Well, maybe then maybe it'll come back. That's what your kids are going to come out and say.
109:23Well, I think ABBA has persisted because I actually think like the melody of ABBA's music is very modern.
109:28I think like the way that they sequence their songs and the beats and stuff like that, like you just hold up.
109:34I just think they've aged well in the way they've constructed the songs.
109:38Well, maybe Party Rock will too. Yeah. Every day I'm shuffling.
109:41Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.
109:45It was a car and then now it's a whole transformer.
109:49Yeah. I forgot about like the high pitch. Wow.
109:51I'm reading the top line of the Party Rock anthem Wikipedia.
109:54It's a song by American electronic dance duo LMFAO featuring English singer Lauren Bennett and American producer Goon Rock.
110:00Don't know who that is. Goon Rock. Goon Rock.
110:02Goon Rock. He's a 51 year old man named David.
110:05Goon Rock. I wish his name was just Goon.
110:08Oh, one word. Goon Rock. Yeah. Goon Rock. The original Gooner.
110:11Was it Gooning back then? I know. Dr. Dre Kanye Juvenile.
110:14Oh my God. Where did that name come from?
110:17I have no idea. Why did he pick that?
110:19What? Hmm. J-Lo. Wow. He did a lot of big songs.
110:22He worked on Watch the Throne. Goon Rock. Craig, Goon Rock originally wrote the song for Flo Rida.
110:27Which one? Oh my God. Party Rock anthem. Oh, really?
110:30Wow. Flo Rida passed on the song. Flo. Flo knew what his style was and he stuck to it.
110:36And I respect him. He understood. He understood. Oh my God.
110:39Wow. Goon Rock. Goon Rock made the liftoff song on Watch the Throne, which is the one that has Beyonce, which means
110:45this man was the buffer between Beyonce and Kanye in a song.
110:48Oh my God. I can't believe Party Rock was for Flo Rida.
110:52God. Would that song be bigger or smaller with Flo Rida?
110:55No. I don't think it would have sounded the same.
110:58I feel like- Goon Rock also wrote Sexy and I Know It.
111:01This is so funny. Who is Goon Rock? Who is- Goon Rock.
111:05After Flo Rida passed on Party Rock Anthem, he then changed the beat to feel, quote, more epic, inviting, and fun.
111:11If anyone knows Goon Rock, will you email us at ringerfantasyfootballgmail.com?
111:14Goon Rock, you have a standing invite to come on this podcast, Goon Rock.
111:18Goon Rock. Please get Goon Rock on the Ringer Fantasy Football Show.
111:21What's he up to now? He's gooning, dude. That's crazy.
111:24He's Goon Rocking. I'm sorry for Goon Rocking. It should have been the fucking Goon Rock Anthem, not Party Rock.
111:30Sorry for Goon Rocking. The Goon Rock Anthem. Oh my God.
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