0:00Welcome back to The Mina Kimes Show featuring Lenny.
0:02Monday Night Football Recap Edition. Also picking winners and woofs from the weekend.
0:06Raiders fans, your time has finally arrived. Talk about them.
0:09Patriots fans, try to discuss what was wrong. Some other teams will be mentioned.
0:12But first we have to start with last night's upset.
0:15Got back from Chicago at 9pm. My Eagles fan mother-in-law was sitting on the couch.
0:19I didn't tell you this, Ben. She's here for my son's birthday.
0:22Her birthday wearing her eagles sweater. The facial expression when I walked in the door.
0:26At two, Vic Fangio. I, we, Ben and I had an exchange because I posted right after the game.
0:32I'm so mad at myself for not seeing this upset coming.
0:35Sicko play caller with a backup quarterback. It truly is the formula.
0:38And, but Ben, you saw it coming. Before we dive in, I want to ask, what was the number one reason why
0:44you thought the Bears would win this game before we talk about why they actually won?
0:48Because Ben with a very different stylistic quarterback meant that the offense was going to be very different.
0:53And that was going to be pretty unscouted. It was going to kind of take the Eagles off by a drop.
0:59And then typically when you see backup quarterback in, in the first couple of weeks that the backups in, the defense gives you really impassioned effort, right?
1:06There's a big conversation in the room that week of like, you know, we're going to have to do special stuff.
1:11So you tend to see when backups play their first or their second game, kind of in a mid season stretch, the
1:17defense tends to have, have above average performances. And that's what you got here.
1:21Eagles bears, right? Keenum and the quick passing game very clearly got the drop on the Eagles early.
1:26And then as they started, you know, trying to fire and blitz Keenum up a little bit more because they couldn't get him down.
1:32He's getting the ball out so fast. They, they basically challenged him and they said, we're going to, you know, load the lineup.
1:39We're going to stop the run. We're going to pressure you.
1:42We're going to make you make throws. Case Keenum and Case Keenum said, well, watch this.
1:46I'm watching some Caleb Williams film on, he made the throws he needed to make.
1:50And so, yeah, it was it. I didn't think 27 to seven.
1:53I'll tell you that. But I thought they were a pretty good shot in this one.
1:58Well, let's talk about the offense first versus the Eagles defense, which in some ways was the more, I think, disappointing side
2:04for me, if you're an Eagles fan, because the Eagles offense, we know is inconsistent.
2:08We know that they have struggled for like, there's, they have actually been up and down through the first few weeks.
2:13They've gotten bailed out by Hertz and some third downs, but this Eagles defense was supposed to be a top five defense in the NFL.
2:20And this was, I thought humiliating is a little strong, but this was a brutal performance for them.
2:25Now, a lot of that had to do with what was going on the other side of the ball for sure.
2:30Ben Johnson, I want to talk about what he did and how he depanced Vic Fangio's defense.
2:35But I do want to mention like some of these throws, it wasn't just Case Keenum sitting in a clean pocket, throwing to wide open receivers all day.
2:43Like I'm looking back on some of my notes and cause I was watching it on delay on the plane on tape and run.
2:49It was an extremely fun texting experience, by the way, because you'd be like, this was awful.
2:54I'd be like, there's about to be three more awful things you haven't even seen yet.
2:58Yeah. You, I texted you before the Hertz interception and you were like, just wait, just wait.
3:03Um, I wrote down, am I hallucinating or did Case Keenum just hit a fadeaway crosshair to Luther Burden with Jonathan Grenard in his back?
3:09Like, did that happen? Did I just, did I look at the play and I'm like, this can't be real.
3:15I'm like, this isn't, uh, it happened. He was actually excellent under pressure.
3:18He was, uh, throwing like, it wasn't again, I just want to mention and praise Case Keenum for this game because he was phenomenal.
3:25Like this is, this wasn't just easy mode all game long.
3:28And there were things that were an easy mode, but like this, he hit some genuinely difficult throws in this game.
3:33And, uh, Johnson said after the game that the thing about Case is that you've been playing 15 years in the league.
3:39He just knows where everybody is supposed to be pre-snap, out of the snap, post-snap.
3:43And so just, he got, he got to his answers.
3:46So, so, so quickly against pressure looks when it was first read relative to coverage.
3:50They had the dig through to Roman Dunze where, where Troy Aikman said like this throw should not be opening against this coverage, right?
3:56It's quarters. Andrew McCuba, the quarter safety just has his hips a little bit too far open to the three receiver side.
4:02It's a little bit too deep and, and Keenum with zero hesitation with zero fat, you know, you know, third string quarterback
4:08out there for the first time in almost three seasons just says, all right, like there's a, a, a, a whisker of
4:14a window here and rips it right. Like no pat, nothing just balls out and it barely beats Zach Vaughn, barely beats
4:20Rick Bolin or excuse me, Queenie Mitchell barely beats McCuba.
4:23It's just, he trusted it. He saw it and he ripped it.
4:26Uh, and then the other thing you have in terms of the, like you said talking about some of these, like, uh,
4:32not so much outer structure throws, but under pressure throws.
4:35Bears pass catchers did a lot of good work for him in this game.
4:39Roma doing a absurd drop in the end zone, not withstanding.
4:42You had guys getting fastened to their routes, getting their head around, you know, you're, I'm always, when I watched the bear,
4:47so impressed by the details on the coaching. These receivers clearly understood balls going to be on you, get into your breaks,
4:53get your head around as secure the football, get down.
4:56They were on their P's and Q's in this one.
4:59Yeah. I, I, Khalifa Raymond. Sure. All right, man.
5:01Uh, Khalifa Raymond breakout, man. It was great. Uh, so that was the kind of out of non Ben Johns.
5:07Just, I just want to take a moment to acknowledge that.
5:10Like you said, case Keenum was playing, like throwing the ball so confidently, um, with anticipation.
5:14Uh, the Eagles defense, we got to take a minute to talk about.
5:17Uh, so there were some issues that were just the players not being as good as they were in the past, particularly the safeties, uh, were really struggling.
5:25They looked slow to the ball on certain circumstances, both in the run and the pass.
5:29Uh, the backers got pretty undressed in this one.
5:32It was a rough one for the second level of this defense, but the thing that shocked me the most, and I
5:38want to hear your thoughts on this. I could not believe how, how poorly they handled motion in this game.
5:43Uh, and I texted you, I think it was the Degene.
5:46Wollin busted coverage where Degene's playing man and Wollin staying in his zone after, um, I forget who comes across.
5:51It's a burden comes in motion. Raymond's the guy's.
5:54Yeah. Uh, so with motion in this game, case Keenum averaged 12 yards, a pass without, it was three.
5:59And a lot of that was because of miscommunications on the backend, going back and watching them on film.
6:04Like it honestly, when I think about this Vic Fangio coach defense, I think about them being excellent and handling motion and
6:10communicating on the backend and passing things off. And in this game, they looked like a completely different pass defense.
6:15So tell me what you saw, because that was jarring to me watching the Eagles.
6:19Yeah. A worst game for a Vic secondary that I can remember in Philadelphia in terms of the operation, right?
6:25In terms of the X's and O's on the field.
6:27Uh, the, the first Khalif Raymond completion was a fast motion where they, they're snapping the ball with the receiver running at the snap.
6:34And he's running like into a stack or into a bunch.
6:37He's becoming the new number one receiver. The reason why this is significant is because it stresses your match rules and your
6:43bunch rules, your stack rules, all those match coverages Fangio wants to run or changing who's releasing where right at the snaps.
6:49You really have to communicate. Well, there were multiple disagreements between Degene and Rick Wollin.
6:53I thought in this game, there was a, uh, Luther burden, wide open cross in the middle of the field where both
6:59Degene and Zach bond took a running back to the flat, left the middle of the field wide open.
7:04Andrew McCubo is trying to pass off routes to Michael Carter.
7:07Who's the nickel who converted to safety, who didn't know he was trying to pass off the route.
7:12So then there's, there's space in the middle of the field there.
7:15There were swapping Marcus Epps and Carter in and Alex.
7:18They didn't know who they wanted on the field at safety.
7:21The touchdown, like you said, they got out of zone coverages because they couldn't, they're kept busting.
7:25They get into man, uh, man coverage or just chase everybody around the field and Wollin zones off on that play.
7:31And then all of a sudden now you've got nobody running with Kalief Raymond.
7:35And so I had the calls wrong and couldn't get figured stuff figured out on the field when players are moving in
7:41motion and Ben just kept hammering them with it.
7:43Right. Every single time it looked a little bit different.
7:46Now it's at a four by one. Now it's a different player is in motion.
7:50Now the motion man's into a different route and it's, it's the iterative nature of it.
7:54It's the way that there's always something on the next play that separates Ben Johnson.
7:58So clearly like I was struck in this game about how like Ben Johnson is just so clearly next to Sean and next to Kyle.
8:05Right. It is. And we've been, we've been saying this for a while, but it's important to be very clear about it
8:11because Liam Cohen has a good three weeks and Shane Steichen has a good two weeks and Clint Kubiak's killing it.
8:16And we want to elevate those guys up there.
8:19There is nobody who, from the moment he picked up the headset has so consistently stayed at the level of Sean and
8:25Kyle, the true upper echelon than Ben Johnson. It's a trio at the top unimpeachable.
8:29On the flip side of that. Were you not also thinking, man, Brian Flores, I know that within a rain storm, I know it was a rain storm.
8:36So that is important context, but Flores versus Fangio on the other hand, there's, there's now a gap there.
8:42Right. Cause I, at some point I need to just talk about Brian Flores and like how he's completely.
8:47Like some of the things the bears defense did in this game actually reminded me a little bit, we'll get to that side of the ball, but yeah.
8:54Anyways. Yeah. It was yeah. Ben Johnson completely debanced him.
8:57I thought, um, and it's worth noting the 2025 game, they use all that motion to kill him in the running game run game.
9:03If I told you before this game, that was the bear stat line on the ground.
9:08It was fine. It was just unremarkable. Right. Like, you know, it was like a decent success.
9:12Yeah. Deandre Swift 20 for 84 common guy, 10 for 31 and about 40 of those Swift yards were late in the game.
9:18So if I told you that like, okay, it's case game quarterback, here's the running stat line.
9:23You would imagine, oh, the Eagles defense played really well and shut them down, but it was the past game.
9:28And this safety group duo group, whatever is the problem.
9:31Uh, well in I it's, it's tough because I actually, he was really good the first two weeks of the season, but this was kind of a nightmare.
9:39You know, Seahawks fans at home. Every time there's a penalty pointing at the screen game, uh, Quinnian Mitchell innocent.
9:44No, actually not. No, because catch the football Quinnian catch it to pass breakups.
9:48You're going to house both of them Quinnian. But I just got a joke machine.
9:52I honestly thought the Eagles defensive line was pretty good in this game.
9:55It just, there was a couple of plays where they got pushed around on the ground, but for the most part, this
10:01was all about the linebackers and the secondary and miscommunication.
10:04And, um, you know, the bears pass catchers, like I'm glad you mentioned that they made a lot of good individual plays
10:10as well, because yeah, you did a great piece before the season on the bears offense and how it was put together
10:16and how explosive it aimed to be. And one of the things I remember you mentioned to the piece was the attention
10:22to detail on the part of all the skill players and how much it matters to pull off this symphony of motion and sequencing play calling.
10:29And you just don't see guys out of position when you watch this offense, you just don't like they're always in the right position.
10:35They're all, yeah, it's just new quarterback, new cadence.
10:38And not only were they flawless operationally, no pre-snap penalties, but, and, and they were very lucky.
10:42This game is on Monday night football because Monday night football has always had like the really good mic to catch the quarterback cadence.
10:49Not only were they flawless operationally, they also were dummy cadencing and changing stuff at the line of scrimmage.
10:54And that's like the whole point of case Keenum is like, well, he's going to be so good operationally, but this is a very difficult offense pre-snap.
11:01And the bears were like, it's so like stupid football nerdy of it, but the third and seven case Keenum scramble into
11:07a fourth and two hard count for a first down.
11:10Like that's the play of the game right there.
11:12It's just, it's so cool that they can do that with their third quarterback.
11:16Oh, interesting. Fourth down might come up later when we talk about the other side of the ball.
11:21Uh, yeah, it was, it was, uh, one to remember for the bears offense, for Ben Johnson, for that group of skilled players.
11:27Yeah. As far as the, we all gotta stop pissing off Ben Johnson.
11:31The whole, like, he's never had his backup quarterback thing.
11:33Like again, the whole, the moment that started, I was like, yeah, he's gonna walk out.
11:38Did I just regret, you know, he relished it too.
11:40Yeah. They had like five completions of the first drive, right?
11:43He clearly wanted to make a point. Kyle Shanahan, Mack Jones, Matt LaFleur, Relique Willis.
11:47These guys get off on it. Um, can this Eagles defense be fixed?
11:51And when I say fixed, I mean like, can they still be elite this season?
11:55I think is where I want to put a pin on this conversation.
11:58Um, I think the pass rush is good enough and we'll get better.
12:02I think the backers will be play better. I think the secondary, some of these communication issues will get sorted.
12:07I am worried about the safety duo. I think that's a real problem for this unit.
12:12Yeah. And I didn't really understand why they wanted to be in the off season.
12:16They were really thin at safety and in a Vic Fangio defense to me, that doesn't make a lot of sense.
12:21I do think that it still can be like a top eight unit because they should be able to get to a
12:27lot more man coverage and a lot more simple options with Wolin, with Quinny Mitchell and with Dejean, who Dejean has had
12:33a very weird start to the season. He's had coverage issues in a game where he got banged up.
12:38He had communication issues in this game. So I don't know what's going on with him, but the bulk of what we've
12:44seen from Dejean over the course of his career with those three players and then with John Grenard into the pass rush.
12:50Yes, you should be able to be like a top eight group.
12:53This is a very inconsistent team unit right now.
12:56And that's the thing. I think the Eagles have a lot of name recognition on defense and they've had some really splashy performances.
13:02But even over last season, there's games in the stretches where Jalen Carter vanishes.
13:06Zach Bond, big money, huge breakout, totally understandable. Love the contract.
13:09Love the player. There are games where he is just kind of guessing and making aggressive coverage reads and they attack him in the middle of the field.
13:16John Campbell, nice splashes, a lot of errors. And so this big peaks, low valleys right now with Philadelphia.
13:21Coaching's got to solve that problem over the course of the season.
13:25All right. Eagles offense. So this was in some ways less surprising for the reasons we discussed, which is this Eagles offense
13:31has not been great the first two weeks. They've had great moments.
13:34They had a great first half in this game.
13:36Less people forget. Like I was looking back at my notes from the first half and they did so many good things.
13:42They were running the football well in the first half bed.
13:45Like I'm looking, I'm like, Ooh, great run to the left side.
13:48Ooh, great block by my lotto. Ooh, the tight ends are getting black stock.
13:52But then in the second half, it was like every bad thing you've seen about the Eagles defense over the last several
13:58years, quite frankly, in terms of inability to run interior pressure hurts, not seeing the middle of field hurts, not seeing droppers.
14:04It's just like, it felt like a rerun of sorts bears fans have been, uh, saying I should apologize to the defense.
14:10They're not as bad as I said they would be.
14:13And honestly, I will apologize. I think they are not as bad.
14:16I do not. I still do not think this is a good defense.
14:19Sorry. Just because, you know, you had pitched a great half.
14:22Some of that had to do with, I thought Dennis Allen put together a really good game plan, which we'll talk about.
14:28But, um, you like, I still think there are some issues.
14:31I, you got some decent performances from individual players.
14:34Dylan Thiemann, by the way, hit right. Like that, he looks great.
14:37Uh, but I, I, I did feel this was more about Eagles offense, just general, uh, inadequacy, incompetence.
14:42And it just sucks. Cause it's a lot of the same stuff we've seen.
14:46Like what's new. Like, tell me, tell me like, I did, am I missing something about this Eagles offense in the second half?
14:52Like, was there something that surprised you or did you feel the same way I did?
14:56Which is like, oh, this is all the same stuff we've seen now for years.
15:00The, uh, the bears defense thing is funny. Cause they may, they may clear the bar for bears fans of like, I
15:06can go demand an apology for my favorite NFL podcaster.
15:09Do they clear the bar of like, I will feel good in the playoffs.
15:13Going to go. Yeah, exactly. I'm not, I think that's a pretty big chasm between those two there.
15:17And I'm not sure we're up to the highest watch Bryce young this week against Cleveland.
15:22Uh, okay. Yeah. So Gino Smith lasers. All right.
15:24Eagles offense. The Sean Mannion right now has a smattering of plays that have worked for him in green bay.
15:30And he is trying to figure out identity wise, how to sequence all these together where his bread is buttered.
15:35Okay. Where are, you know, Devante Smith, easy buttons.
15:37How do we get Makai lemon involved as our first round pick at wide receiver?
15:41What is not greens, please. I never want to see another Makai lemon screen for the rest of my life.
15:47All right. The Eagles have, the Eagles have never, the Eagles have no blockers on the field at wide receiver and tight end.
15:53Right. Cause it's Zach hurts. His first came back.
15:55So David Wicks is Devante Smith who I love to death.
15:58Devante Smith. He's amazing. He tries. He's a hundred and 70 pounds.
16:02Some of the early runs in the game. He was really blacking his little tush off.
16:06They, they, Darius Cooper took like two snaps on offense in this game.
16:09Darius Cooper is their only receiver with size. Made a big play against the Titans.
16:13I don't know why they want to get him out there.
16:16They had like Elijah Moore out there to start the game, whatever.
16:20So they, Mania is still very much a guy who's off of a tree that had good stuff.
16:25And he's trying to figure out what to do now in like, you know, your, you know, location to team to like, what do I bring over?
16:32What do I graph? How do I add stuff?
16:34So the Mania experience is still very herky jerky, like against the Titans.
16:38Jalen was seeing middle of the field. Well was seeing crossing patterns.
16:41Well was throwing it relatively on time in this game.
16:44Just like for a drive, like that end of the first half drive, absolutely was seeing it.
16:48And then we'd walk out the next drive and just not see it.
16:52And so it is extremely erratic at this point.
16:54You can survive erraticism. If you can rely on the running game, stay ahead of the sticks.
16:59If you can scramble, if you can kind of, you know, just link together some first out first downs and the Eagles
17:05just again, going back to last year, they just get to three and out so quickly because they get a negative on
17:11an early, on an early run because they bust something on the interior.
17:14The guard center guard play right now in Philadelphia is not good in the running game.
17:18And so they, they get behind the sticks and then Jalen just for, for whatever the conversation was in 2024, where they
17:24were like, dude, stop throwing picks up fumbling the football.
17:27He just has these games where he just has no interest in being aggressive whatsoever to hit the Devante Smith throw.
17:33They hit on Jalen Johnson's head down the right sideline.
17:35And then to never get back to it again.
17:38It's just like pull your hair out. Frustrating. Anytime you have Devante one-on-one, the ball should be hung up.
17:43Same way you did with AJ Brown. They won't do it.
17:46Receivers are better than their corners. I thought this would be way more downfield.
17:50There was like a third and 12 where, um, this was before the game got out of hand.
17:55It was like early in the second half. It was like, like, hand coverage or something.
17:59And he just like checks it down. I was just so, um, yeah, it's the interceptions.
18:03I mentioned this earlier, but he should, I said, sorry, it's just one.
18:07It should have been two. Both times he just threw it at the dropper.
18:10Once was, uh, I forgot who was it Edwards.
18:13Both times. And it was like Edwards plays the hot to the, but yeah, it's, these are, that's something that Hertz has
18:19struggled with at times in his career with simulated pressures.
18:22This is not new in terms of like, just not seeing the backer as they drop out.
18:26Um, the, the, the dissolution of the run game.
18:29I want to ask you a question because Dennis Allen's did something in this game that, um, it's funny.
18:34I think we're seeing more and more Dan and I were talking about this yesterday, vis-a-vis the Rams, just blitzing the under center play action.
18:40Um, which is something I think we're seeing more and more throughout the, the, actually stats brought back this up, uh, blitz
18:46rates versus under center dropbacks are significantly up. Even if you take out the floor snaps.
18:51Um, so I guess I want to talk about like the Eagles in terms of like the lack of adjustments to that
18:57and what you would do in the run game when it's, when the interior is getting blown up the way it was in the second half.
19:04I want to be able to toss the ball into the boundary.
19:07I thought, I thought one of the, one of the best things about the 49ers running game over the last couple of years.
19:13And you saw, I think the Steelers against the Bengals was like eye popping this past week.
19:18They said, all right, we do not want to deal with Dexter Lawrence or if the Steelers specifically for the 49ers is
19:24they don't want to deal with their guards trying to move guys off the line of scrimmage.
19:28And so they have a really varied way to get the ball to the boundary fast in the running game.
19:34Right. Whereas, okay, we're going to now make the, the point of war, right.
19:37Make the engagement, not in the center, but on the flank.
19:40And that's what we're going to be able to use our blocking wide receivers and our, our big body tight ends to
19:46solve our problems for us, which is why the Eagles are deficient.
19:49They don't have those players, right? This is the thing I was like, we talked about this with the Chiefs and their running game under center.
19:56But what happens when she rice eats a block and Travis Kelsey needs a block and through three weeks, they've really risen to the occasion.
20:03But if you are going to be an under center running team, you know, what do you need to have in terms
20:09of tools in your toolkit to solve the problems that will be presented to you?
20:13One of the number one things you need is, uh, you know, office alignment, you can get on the hoof guys who
20:19can run out there and who can tag players in space.
20:22And then tight ends and receivers who are willing to get their nose dirty.
20:26Right. Go watch, watch any bears film. Right. They had, they had on the, they had on the first drive where they
20:32got the pin pole, Roma dunes, a pinning down defensive end.
20:35They got darn all right. And Jonah Jackson on the run.
20:38And right now, darn all right on, on the run.
20:40It's like fricking like Superman on, on, in flight.
20:43Like he's unbelievable in space. And so you need to have those constraint plays where you're getting the ball into the boundary in the shotgun running game, right?
20:50It becomes RPO stuff and it becomes bubble screen stuff.
20:53That's how you solve that problem. But we don't want to be in a shot in an under center world.
20:58Excuse me. One step dropping and throwing alert smokes to wide receivers.
21:02One-on-one against corners. That's college nonsense, right? NFL. We should be able to get the ball to the boundary with the back.
21:08But the Rams also are good at making that adjustment.
21:10And it didn't really work in the Broncos game, which was a game where, I mean, Vance was just blitzing every single under center drop back.
21:17Yeah. Um, and which again is very, something to put a pin in for the Rams offense because their run game is so good.
21:24You at some point just have to pray for negative plays and they were able to get them against them and you
21:30give up plays and you just kind of live or die by that.
21:33But, uh, it is just something I think we're going to see more of against these good under center offenses.
21:39Um, the solution, the solution, the past game is to do a lot of what the Rams have done.
21:44You saw the bears do in this game, which is under center drop back, no play action.
21:48Cause now the quarterback's head stays up. So I can see it.
21:52And now the back doesn't have to go play fake.
21:54And so the back and just go get to the backer and the blitz right away.
21:59And you can survive that way. It's not great, but you can survive that way.
22:03Um, it's, I think if like you're an Eagles fan, there's, there's still hope that this offense will be better.
22:08I think I really do, um, believe that, but there's like, okay, let's, let's do a priority of like the things that they've got to figure it out.
22:16So one of the things we talked about is the run game.
22:19And if the interior of the offensive line starts getting their butt kicked or there's there get, you're getting blitz through the a gap.
22:25Can Sean Mannion come up with counters? We were just discussing just so that it's not so dependent on the past cat, particularly on early downs.
22:32Can this offense stay on time? Can you get the defensive looks you want yada, yada, yada, they gotta figure out a
22:38better way to use Makai lemon than what we've seen.
22:41And I know he was open by the way.
22:43So I, I don't want to put this on Mannion.
22:46There were a couple of plays where Hertz just didn't see him, which was of course what everybody feared with the draft
22:52pick and there's narratives and all of that. But like Ben is it, do you like, do you feel there's other ways
22:58that Makai Levin could be used other than what we've seen early in the season?
23:02Yeah. Yeah. Quarterbacks got to start ripping the football in Philly and, and it's annoying because in Tennessee on third down, he
23:08had like nine conversions in week two. He was ripping it when he had to rip it on third down.
23:13And Jalen got very, you know, no turnover. Just keep this offense on the track pilled in 2024 and 2025 elite running game, elite defense.
23:20Just do not turn the ball over and we will win games in this offense.
23:24Yeah. Got to rip the football. Got to be able to throw between layers of the field.
23:29Got to be able to throw between zone defenders.
23:31Got to throw on time to maximize yards after the catch.
23:34Got to be able to make aggressive throws. Got to be able to risk some more turnovers, right?
23:39There's this sort of an offense, which is inherently a lot more vertical, a lot more crossing patterns.
23:44Vertical is a, is a tricky word because the Eagles would throw all those go balls.
23:48I'm talking about in the middle of the field.
23:51There's a lot more three level stretch. You are just not going to get juice for your squeeze on lemon on Devante Smith.
23:57If you are not more aggressively throwing the football.
23:59And so I think Jalen wants to get there, but I do think that, you know, Sirianni and Mannion have to kind
24:05of drag him into the water and let him know, like, you know, it's not going to be a disaster when you go there.
24:12So that's going to help get lemon more involved from a design to touch perspective.
24:16I mean, he should be a good screen and swing player.
24:19It's just, I, the Eagles do not have the resources for them.
24:22It's because they don't have the blockers for it.
24:24That's my big, my biggest hangup with this team is that everything on the boundary dies because they, they don't have physicality at those positions.
24:31Um, I do want to, so I, I know I was, I mentioned Dylan Thienemann, TJ Edwards, obviously had the super heads up play.
24:37You, I'm sure you've seen the clip of him, but yeah, leaning in, um, I do think this bears front maybe is, looks better than I feared.
24:45I think coming into the season, the pass rush, I think Austin Booker's like legit, a guy.
24:49I think the defensive tackles have been playing a bit better than I thought.
24:53I think the backend is still extremely vulnerable and good passing attacks.
24:56So we take advantage of that, but you know, shout out to Dennis Allen's, you had a great game plan in the second half.
25:03Um, I think you're trying to think of like with the bears defense, like, do you feel different from them now than
25:09you did at the beginning of the season in any way?
25:12So I think that what I, when a Dennis Allen defense works is always got like four absolute just to hogs up
25:18front because he wants to be easy. He's a, you know, Oh, two highlight box guy, you know, play from split field,
25:24but he's not what much one for like, and here are my cool simulated pressure solutions.
25:28Like they do that stuff. But in general, he's like, I want my poor defensive lineman to be able to win point of attack.
25:34Right. And then we'll come fill it behind. We got a good look in this game at what they wanted to be
25:40able to get to last year in terms of on pressure downs, being able to kick day out a dang boat inside.
25:46And then have Austin Booker Montez on the outside.
25:49I think that's a good like package for them, right.
25:51To go ahead and generate disruption. I think the rookie corner Malik Muhammad, who just started straight over Tariq Stevenson in this game seems a little banged up.
25:59Um, but I think that they've found a nice young player in him.
26:02Yeah. Like there are enough, like, you know, I think polls has invested a ton in this defense and while he has
26:08largely missed more than he's hit, you still have, you know, like Grady Jarrett is still a good player.
26:13Neville Gallimore can still do stuff. Right. And so you have a decently high enough floor.
26:18There is this, the story to me, this is more Eagles offense.
26:21Yeah. I didn't see. I'm sorry, but it is.
26:23Yeah. I think Allen has also kind of done like, look, he had, he gets hit with the Kobe Bryant injury before
26:29the season kind of Gordon's supposed to be available.
26:32He's not, I do like the fact that he's experimented with different group players instead of just sticking to like Tyreek.
26:37Stevenson has been really bad. Like, um, you know, I think like Elijah Hicks is pretty good in this game, right?
26:43Like, you know, like Cam Lewis is playing, like he's trying different things on the back end to fix it.
26:48I just think they're going to be more tested.
26:51Honestly, I'll just say it. The Jets offense is better than the Eagles offense and you got them next week.
26:56No breeze hall that, you know, now, now I don't know how, how deep that Jets offense is going to be, but
27:02boy, well, Kenyan Sadiq, little six catches for one of those.
27:05That laser that Gino threw him, that. It was a seam touchdown to Kenyan Sadiq.
27:09I felt something in the core of my Gino.
27:12You see the debate to Wilson. He's, you know, famous last words.
27:15Uh, anyways, great win for the Bears. Legit. Um, Ben Johnson.
27:18You're a God. It's an extremely well coached football team.
27:21They can win any game with any personnel at any time.
27:24Love watching them. Take a break. Come back and let's pick our winners and wuffs.
27:28Of the weekend. Hey everybody. I'm here to tell you about a podcast I love from Team Coco called The Three Questions with Andy Richter.
27:34Every week, comedian and actor Andy Richter sits down with fascinating guests from the worlds of comedy, film, music, and beyond to
27:40discuss why they are the way they are. The conversations are equal parts hilarious and vulnerable.
27:45And he has had everyone. Weird Al. Loved that one.
27:47Joel McHale. Kristen Bell. Friends of the show. Katie Nolan.
27:50Steven Malchmus. And you can check out my recent episode of The Three Questions where Andy and I talked about competing on
27:56Celebrity Jeopardy, parenting, and of course, the Jennifer Hudson dance tunnel.
27:59Listen to The Three Questions with Andy Richter available wherever you get your podcasts.
28:03New episodes every week. All right. We're back. All right, Raiders fans.
28:06It's fine. I said last week, I said, if you beat the Saints, I will.
28:10I promised you I would spend more time talking about the three and oh, speaking of well-coached teams, by the way.
28:16That's the number one thing that jumps out to me when I watch the Las Vegas Raiders is just how well-coached they are.
28:22So, watching this game is an interesting one. I thought the defense was fine.
28:26They made some plays. Koontz. Big moments. Malcolm Koontz down the end.
28:29Always been a Malcolm Koontz guy. He had one year.
28:31It was awesome. Then he got hurt. Then he came back.
28:34And they've just been signing him on one-year deals ever since being like, get back, get back, get back.
28:40And he looked nice. I was just looking at my defensive notes.
28:43Man, he was cooking. Who was playing in for Banks?
28:46Asim Richards. Yeah. He got his butt kicked by Koontz.
28:48So, yeah, he did some nice things. Hezekiah Mass is still kind of like a main character.
28:53I thought the safeties were pretty rough in this one.
28:55But let's be real. It's about the offense. And it's about Brock Bowers.
28:59And that's the focal point here. What did Clint Kubiak call him?
29:02Like a football robot sent from heaven? Did I?
29:05I might be paraphrasing. I think just watching him in this game cook.
29:08Corners. Just want to emphasize that. Corners. Like they're putting him on the backside.
29:12On the back shoulder where he beats McKinstry. They're going four strong.
29:15Isolating. Like if Brock... It's like prime Kelsey. If he is isolated, Kirk Cousins correctly has infinite trust that he will come down with the football.
29:22His footwork at the line... I'm just looking at the notes I took watching him.
29:26First of all, he's mostly aligned wider in the slot.
29:29He's basically a giant receiver for them. This is a team that lives in...
29:33I think they probably use 11 personnel at the lowest rate in the league.
29:36So they had 81% multi-tight end sets in this game.
29:39It's the highest of any team in any game this year.
29:42Fifth highest in the last three years. But if you watch it, it's not 12 personnel formations.
29:47It's alignment personnel formations. He's like a big receiver.
29:49I mean... Yeah. Just looking at my notes though.
29:52Yes. Like so... Beating corners. Insane footwork at the line of scrimmage.
29:55His routes are beautiful. His feel for zone is exceptional.
29:58His body control is outrageous. The one where... Sanker has good coverage him on the corner.
30:02It's like a flood concept to the left. Oh my gosh.
30:05The third and 14. The third and 14. It's so good.
30:08His hands. I mean, he really is a football robot sent from heaven.
30:11That might not even be what he said, but it's correct.
30:14Yes. It is a football robot from heaven. I found it.
30:17I just don't think you can be over the top talking about this guy right now, Ben.
30:22Like I'm just... Crazy tape. That's exactly what it is.
30:24It's every time I talk about Brock Bowers, I'm like, all right, now remain calm.
30:29And within like 15 seconds, I just... It's the four by one where he's isolated on Kool-Aid McKinstry.
30:33He goes to give him the inside move to relocate McKinstry and it doesn't work.
30:37McKinstry has upfield leverage on him. It's chalked. It's a great coverage by McKinstry.
30:41Bowers explodes and gets to McKinstry's upfield shoulder. The tight end gets fast enough on top of the corner to threaten him
30:47vertically, such as to open the space for the back shoulder.
30:50The ball is short by multiple yards because Kirk, who hasn't thrown a lot to Brock, underestimated how fast the 240-pound tight end was.
30:57And Brock goes and picks it up off his knees for a first down.
31:00I have 10,000 good stats. Here's my favorite one.
31:03Bowers had 13 targets from slot or wide alignments in this game.
31:06It is the most such target a tight end has seen in the past three seasons.
31:10Out wide, he had eight targets. The most out wide targets the tight end has had since the 2016 season, which is
31:16as far back as we have data. He had six catches when he was out wide.
31:21Kelsey never got there. Yeah. It's tied with Kelsey.
31:23So games, games with six plus targets out wide.
31:25Kelsey over the last decade has 10. Bowers already has two.
31:28Five plus receptions out wide. Kelsey over the last decade has five.
31:32Bowers already has two. This is the first guy to actually be the next Kelsey.
31:36Yeah. This is the real deal. I can't stress this enough.
31:39The corners were not bad. They played great. If you want them, go.
31:42Like they were legit. Like there was corners, which is already like crazy because he's a tight end.
31:47Like there were many plays where they were in good position and it just did not matter.
31:52He is inevitable. I want to give a little love to Kirk cousins though, cause he was kind of slinging it and
31:58there were some, there was, I'm just saying, I didn't know he still had in his bag.
32:02The one where he's like rolling right and finds Tucker where he extends.
32:06I was like, what? I didn't know you could still do that.
32:09Kirk cousins. He is playing with a level of aggressiveness that I wasn't sure he would play with in terms of throwing downfield.
32:15The other thing I mentioned is the Raiders offensive line.
32:18That was my big concern coming into the season.
32:20They look great. They looked like a pass protection.
32:23Speaking of, uh, they look legit. So yeah, it's a tough, they're a tough matchup.
32:27They're the Raiders offenses are legitimately like, what, what do you think?
32:30Like, what kind of team is best equipped to handle this?
32:33Oh, I mean, there's no Bauer's solution. So you want to be a team that can zone and a team that can match.
32:39You got to be able to pressure Kirk. I mean, like, yeah, pressure.
32:43Yeah. Because you got to be able to see them on the spot.
32:46Broncos are probably going to want to play man.
32:48And it's certain against Bowers, which I mean, like, dude, I will be seated for the first Broncos Raiders game.
32:54Uh, I mean, chiefs are an interesting one. They're going to send pressure though.
32:58And Kirk will be able to see some of that undress.
33:01Some of that Kirk. It's like, you know, like the, uh, again, as the, you know, Mendoza is going to play guy
33:072024, Kirk right off the Achilles thing where everybody remembers of him dreadful.
33:10Couldn't drive the football 2025. 2025 Kirk, when he got back in there after Penix got hurt, there was a lot more
33:16there in terms of the physical toolkit. I still, I still think there's some, some serious limitations and the, and, and this
33:22game was, was great from the Raiders. Bowers was so good.
33:25Kind of the first dawning teams are going to find ways to force the football to other players.
33:30And then it's going to become a Trey Tucker and a Jalen Naylor and a Jack Bash sort of a conversation.
33:35So that, that the depth there concerns me. Uh, the, the other thing about the Raiders that I think is really important
33:41is the role that Mike Washington has played in some of these explosive touchdown run.
33:45Gentie for as much as I like that player, Gentie is a guy who turns negative plays into positive plays.
33:51He's not really a run away from you. The third level sort of a guy, uh, you know, he is much more joystick, herky jerky.
33:58Washington has given them this big play opportunity in the backfield, which is as we remember from Kubiak, but the Seahawks is
34:03really, really important to have in this running game.
34:06That was a crazy run. It was, uh, power and it was, they got him dead to what rights.
34:11Yeah. And I'm watching that thinking, all right, this is over.
34:14And then he, it's similar to the preseason, like manages to squeeze out of it.
34:18And then they got some nice blocks from the skill players downfield.
34:21But like, I w I was legit like shocked by that run becoming explosive.
34:25Um, yeah, I think, I, I think you just make the game about Kirk Cousins.
34:29So it really is about pressure and you know, the saints.
34:32I, like I said, he made some actually legit, legit impressive throws under pressure.
34:36Uh, but I was surprised to the saints played so much.
34:39They got him to play a ton of single high.
34:41Some of that was through the play action game, which they just completely killed them.
34:46But it should be noted. The saints have been good against play action.
34:49So the saints defense is not bad. Um, and I don't even think they had a bad game in this game.
34:55I think they ran into Kubiak. There was turnover.
34:57Kubiak had 14 chapters of his playbook. He was just waiting to deploy with Brock.
35:01And they finally got there. Use them like JS.
35:04That dude is so cool. The turnover really hurt them.
35:06Obviously they could have won that game. Um, so yeah, it was, that was, uh, it was a quite, it was a good game.
35:13It was, it felt, it felt even. I think that's the thing I'll say.
35:17Like I watched that one. I was like, Ooh, like, you know, it felt even.
35:21Um, okay. You're a winner. Are you, uh, are you ready for me to times guesses the lines?
35:25Raiders chiefs week four chiefs are traveling to Las Vegas playing a four 25.
35:29Traveling to Las Vegas chiefs by two and a half.
35:32Four and a half for the chiefs. Four and a half.
35:35No respect for the three and Oh, three and four.
35:38Both pretty key numbers too. I've looked at that plus four and a half at home.
35:42Clint Kubiak's very clearly fired up. Like, you know, he's got to make once make a little bit of a statement here.
35:48I don't know. Raiders chiefs. I'm at that's game of the week.
35:51Next week to me. That's going to be really fun.
35:54All right. Who's your winner? My winner is the Cleveland Browns, man.
35:57The two and one. I want to hear where you're going in this.
36:00Cause I watched this game last night, trying to anticipate what was going to be your angle.
36:05I have some guesses as to what you're going to say.
36:08Main thing for me is the defensive side of the ball.
36:11I'm impressed by what we've got going on here on the, on the, on the defense line, really at all three levels.
36:17Uh, Mike Rutenberg steps into Jim Schwartz's shoes with no miles Garrett.
36:20Tough ask brother. I mean, as far as new coaches and new jobs about as brutal as it gets through three weeks,
36:26they have done a really nice job retaining the aggressiveness in the front while also becoming more varied in coverage, right?
36:32It's exactly what you want to be doing. Cause Schwartz would be, you know, all right.
36:36All about our front four, all about the rush, but then you can kind of know what we're doing in coverage and beat us on the back end.
36:44Uh, you're two Mason Graham. Good morning. Good afternoon.
36:46Hello, sir. What are you going to hear my call for him after watching this game?
36:50Yeah. Pac-Man. He literally plays like Pac-Man like on every single one of his pressures.
36:54And he had a bunch of this game. He's like gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble.
36:59Like there's just something about his style of play that cracks me up.
37:02He's so like honey badger ish. Very high effort.
37:05Very like, you know, a little bit like erratic and intense.
37:08Yeah. The one, the sack where it's like, he runs a pig stunt and loops around.
37:12It's like, he's like gobbling them. And they've got another, they've got another young player, Mike Hall out of Ohio state, who's
37:18winning on a lot of these penetration plays as well.
37:21Jared versus causing problems. Quincy Williams now was the linebacker.
37:23They brought him from the jets. Quincy like fell apart in the Aaron Glenn defense.
37:27Couldn't handle it comes and rejoins Mike Rutenberg and coached him with the jets.
37:31Much more simplified role. Quincy's playing with his hair on fire through three weeks.
37:35He had a hit on Bryce young in this game where he hit him so fast.
37:39Bryce young like flew three yards. Right. So they are, they're playing with the hair on fire.
37:44They're playing with high, high, high speed and intensity.
37:46But then when this team gets a third down, they are showing split field.
37:50They are rotating against this and against Bryce young specifically, they wanted to get a lot of low hole players, take away
37:56the immediate crosser, take away the slants and they were on their nails in, in terms of the coaching, in terms of route, route recognition in this game.
38:03They're taking away the mesh concept, passing things off.
38:06Ronnie Hickman had a, had a drop into cover one where he took away the first crosser.
38:10And then as Bryce young moves his eyes, he leaks back to take away the second crosser.
38:15Boom. There's another pressure. First half, they had a 66 pressure rate on Bryce young in this game, consistently getting him to pat and hold the football.
38:22Bryce couldn't get to his typical Ted McMillan outfit because, uh, Ted McMillan at 29, uh, excuse me, 25 snaps against Denzel Ward.
38:29Only had two targets. Denzel Ward put the absolute gloves on Ted Rowe and McMillan.
38:33And so I like where they're at from a talent perspective.
38:36They've got some emergent young players there in the front seven.
38:38Denzel's still so good. And then I love where they're at schematically too.
38:42That's all that matters with this team is like, who are the emergent young players?
38:46Who are you building around? Right. Um, but yeah, the, the, the defense, I thought in this game did a great job
38:52of making Bryce hold onto the football. He had like over a three set time, three second time to throw.
38:57And then just condensing the pocket and forcing him to stay in it and to panic.
39:02And that's the nature of this Browns pass rush there.
39:04It's not about speed off the edge. You have a great pocket pusher in Jared verse.
39:09You're getting interior pressure from Mason Graham. They're just, they're just suffocating you.
39:12I do think moving forward, I'd love to see them add a little bit more speed opposite first.
39:17I think that I was watching them thinking like, it'd be great to have like another component, but like for this Browns
39:23team, the point of the season is like, who are your building blocks?
39:26Who is the young players? And guess what? They got them on offense too.
39:30Cause Denzel Boston and Casey Concepcion, uh, remain awesome.
39:33I mean, right now it just looks like an absolute slam dunk of a draft class.
39:37Uh, Boston, you know, he would, he was wide open on the deep out, which was, we can talk about it.
39:43Sean Watson in a second, but, uh, I think he's proven already to be so much, have so much more juice downfield
39:49than he was discussed in the draft. And then Concepcion, my client.
39:52He's innocent. Innocent. There's so, I actually think it's, it's, it's very unsurprising to me that Boston is getting better production out
39:58of Watson because Watson, Boston is your ball winner.
40:00Concepcion gets open very quickly and there's numerous plays in these games or Deshaun just does not pull the trigger and he,
40:06cause he doesn't throw with anticipation to him. And, or in some cases he just like overthrows him on like short stuff.
40:12That's infuriating. But let me tell you Browns fans, he is open.
40:15He is absolutely got the juice. The, uh, true Ben Solak heads will know that in the ESPN betting column on weekends,
40:21I've taken Casey Concepcion overs in every single week.
40:24And I'm over three. He's open. He is open.
40:26You can't make me stop. And I won't stop because the usually, he ran around on 90% of the Browns dropbacks in this game.
40:33Casey Concepcion has 77 routes so far through three weeks of the season.
40:36He has 20 targets. He has 80 receiving yards.
40:38You understand? He's got just barely over one receiving yard per route.
40:42All right. Since the 2000 season, there are only 15 players with 20 targets and 80 or fewer yards through the first three to the season.
40:49Casey Concepcion is one of them. The rest of them are like running backs.
40:53It is ridiculous. How unlucky he's been with that said, the other part of Brown's winner to me is Munkin and Travis Switzer back in the bag.
41:00Yes. Munkin. Yes. Monk. Todd Munkin is extremely good.
41:02I, yes. And Munkin. Munkin. What is cool. He's like, he's one of these guys who's like, you know, I don't really have a system.
41:09I have what you're bad at. And every single week, I'll kind of walk out.
41:13I'll have like five or six screens that are going to work great for me.
41:17I'll have a couple of design touches to Harold fan that are great.
41:21I'll have a couple of quarterback runs. That'll save me in some third downs.
41:24But other than that, like where do you suck today?
41:27Right. And, and, and okay. You know, you guys are pretty thin here in the secondary.
41:31JC Horn goes down in this game. We're going to start peppering.
41:35We'll be in the slot. Right. We're going to go after a Caleb Evans.
41:38And they just have the ability to kind of get to your weak points.
41:42He's a very chameleon coach, which I've always appreciated.
41:45They've got enough good players on the offensive line.
41:47Right. I think Elton Jenkins is doing well at guard.
41:50All right. Center. Excuse me. I think Spencer Fano has had pretty good, you know, a rookie left tackle through three weeks.
41:56They have enough there that they can account for the fact that, yeah, the quarterback play is terrible, but Sean scrambles a couple of times.
42:02Let's talk about that for a second, because I, I've seen some, Oh, what a comeback.
42:07He did not watch, watch the tape. Like he, first of all, in this game, he tried to throw three picks.
42:12He tried to throw so many interceptions, three point, like super long time to throw.
42:16He's taken too long on a number of throws.
42:19It's, it was 4.8 yards per attempt. He hit three throws over 10 yards.
42:23The fan and touchdown was nice. It's not, it's not good.
42:26So that's fine. It doesn't matter. That's not the point of this season.
42:29The point of the season is setting up your team for next year.
42:33And I think the sum total of what we're saying is the Browns have a lot of really fun, young players on both sides of the ball.
42:40That's a win for you this season. That is what somebody, somebody said in the off season that the Browns might be,
42:46was it, you said there might be like a quarterback away by this time.
42:50Yeah. People were like, right. Good take the three weeks.
42:52Great take. They like, I, I don't know how good the running back room exactly is.
42:57I think it's good enough, but the pass catchers and then enough offensive line pieces that, yeah, by the end of the season, I think they'll be there.
43:04Boston Concepcion and Fannin. Not only individually, such fun players.
43:07They fit so well together. Yep. This is a well-constructed.
43:09Need a true Y and your, your home free is absolutely what you want.
43:13Okay. The wuss. I'll go first. Patriots. So let's have the Drake may combo.
43:17He's bad. He was always bad. Last year was all the schedule.
43:20How do we ever think he was good? So.
43:23Drake may, obviously I didn't watch the guy was texting you like what's going on.
43:27This is crazy. Miserable. Game all around for the offense.
43:29Not good in any capacity. May it's, it's weird.
43:32Because there are actually plays where he looks like himself.
43:35There are throws that are legitimately impressive, but there's like three to four.
43:38Just combination, horrible decisions. Or he has a couple, a few misses as well that, you know, that are just kind of strange.
43:44The horrible decisions, the interceptions, the fumbles, whatever are the ones that are, you know, completely tanking this team right now.
43:50So the conversation I want to have with you about him is why do we think he is, these decisions are happening?
43:56There's a few. So by the way, I want to mention like on throws of two and a half seconds, or less.
44:02Drake may is actually like top 10 in most.
44:04I was like pulling it up off target rates.
44:07He be a success rate. It's when he holds onto the ball for three seconds, that stuff starts to go bad for.
44:13Yeah. Um, when you watch him, it, it is clearly more of a mental thing than any like physical.
44:18I know that there's been some talk about like shoulder injuries and whatnot.
44:21I personally think it's much more of a mental.
44:24Yeah. The shoulder injury thing, like, and, and you always like the beat, no stuff in here, stuff that we don't hear.
44:30And so you just want to pay attention to that.
44:32I I've seen people say like, Oh, his, his arm is very clearly different on film.
44:37I disagree with that. I don't, I don't see an arm that looks particularly impacted on a film.
44:41Maybe I'm nuts. Maybe I'm misremembering, but I agree with you.
44:44Shoulder injury to me, like feels a little bit red herring right now.
44:48There's, I want to preposite to you two competing theories and let me know where you think the truth is here.
44:54Okay. Um, one is last season a lot. He, he had enormous tight window throw rate and the cat, the Patriots receiver has just caught everything specifically.
45:01Steph digs. And Kishan booty. Yeah. Right. And so he's been an aggressive thrower, but he was being rewarded for it last season.
45:07Now with inferior pass catchers, perhaps he has not tamped down that aggression dial.
45:11That's one theory. The other theory is he is, pressing.
45:14He is not seeing the field. Well, certain coverages are messing with him.
45:17I guess that's two different theories. Coverages and pressing are kind of different things.
45:21So I want to know what you think, where the truth is, uh, and whether or not it can be fixed.
45:26We can talk about next. Yeah. So I definitely, I find the cover six thing to be very, like very funny and silly.
45:33Right. a friend of the show, Nate Tice did a wonderful thread about like, if you watch them on cover six, what
45:39you're saying is not the Drake may is bad against cover six.
45:42You're saying Drake may is bad against the Seahawks.
45:44Cause he played the Seahawks two weeks in a row.
45:47And the Seahawks play a ton of cover six.
45:49He was good against cover six in his last game.
45:52I looked at it to try against, again, on cover six, non Seahawks games.
45:56He's great. And against cover six, the Seahawks games, he's been terrible.
45:59And like, anytime you're filtering that much to a specific coverage, you're catching noise.
46:03You are not catching anything significant. So I don't think the cover six is broken.
46:07Drake may. I will argue that there's a guy calling plays who should be a little bit more cognizant of the fact
46:13that they're calling a lot of cover six in the league these days.
46:16And we can't always have one vertical receiver, weak side in the back coming out to the flat because Hey, cover six is great against that.
46:23We need more weak side options for Drake may.
46:26I think that McDaniels is struggling with it, honestly, more than Drake is, but regardless, I think the first thing that you
46:32posited, which is that last year, all we ever talked about was it is ridiculous.
46:36This tight widow success rate is ridiculous. This downfield success rate.
46:39We knew that was laced with regression. We didn't think that he would plummet all the way through the media and go down to the bottom.
46:46Right. I mean like the, the fall has been meteoric.
46:48I think some of that is because when a court, like, you know, Drake may isn't thinking about regression.
46:54Drake may thinking about I'm playing worse than I was.
46:56And he's starting to lose the threat a little bit.
46:59You're starting to spiral. Oh, you see Herbert do the exact same thing with the chargers.
47:03So I think some of it is that. And then I think some of it is they planned on being a different offense stylistically.
47:10When AJ Brown into the building, AJ goes down and they're just kind of dusting off 2025 game plans.
47:15And this is, I mean, like the film is the film, right?
47:18They are a very static team. There's very little emotion.
47:21There's very little play action pass. There's really nothing new under the sun.
47:24They're running core base concepts every single day. So that, that, that quick time to throw stat to me is okay.
47:30When we get them into a nice pre-snap look, Drake knows where the ball's supposed to go.
47:35Ball's supposed to come out. Everything gets covered a lot more successfully against the Patriots offense right now than most of the
47:40passing offenses you see in the league. And you enter, you know, kind of crazy scramble drill mode.
47:45Yeah. There's a lot of plays, especially early. I guess I noticed we're just guys aren't open.
47:50And then he starts forcing it. And so, you know, it's not, he shouldn't force it.
47:54Like these are bad decisions, but we're just trying to explain how do we get here with him as a quarterback.
48:00The play action thing is weird, right? Like I thought without AJ Brown, they would lean very heavily into play actioning off of heavier groupings.
48:07And they barely ever let me look how much it feels like never there.
48:10I want to say, I want to say the 28th and play action rate and 31st and preset motion.
48:16I'm just going off my head from looking at it yesterday.
48:19I mean, okay. Cause yeah, five and both for sure.
48:21It's great. Like it's weird though. Right? Because it wasn't like, I thought, okay, we got a fullback in the building.
48:27You got rigid Gilliam. Surely we're going to see more of that to yeah.
48:3120, you're right in play action. Yeah. Josh, Josh McDaniels, I would say has five or so calls a game that to
48:37me are the, well, this worked for Tom calls.
48:39It's like, okay, sure. It worked for Tom. And maybe last year when it worked for Drake and Drake's kind of a
48:45supercomputer too, man, defense has changed a lot faster in 26.
48:48And they changed in Oh six, Josh. Like, you know, everything was open back then, baby.
48:52All right. Like we, we knew the rules. We were on top of guys.
48:56Now these days, defenses be doing stuff. All right.
48:58They're changing who they cover after the snap. You know, Josh is running a lot of plays.
49:03They got drawn up on projector screens with later, whiteboard race markers, right?
49:07Like the Patriots are very much in an older era of football.
49:10And there were moments last year where that was cool.
49:12Because it was a zag where other teams were zigging, but right now you're seeing the weakness in it, right?
49:18The reason why we've kind of moved to a less of a pure progression based passing, you know, half field coverage reads
49:24and kind of that, that whole, that whole conversation that we had last season.
49:28The last thing I would say is just, I think that if you strip away all the context, which is a silly
49:33thing to say on an NFL podcast, we try to put on context, but if you strip away all the context and you forget, let's forget about schedules.
49:41Let's forget about narratives for everything. And let's just say that the quarterbacks leading target getters right now are Demario Douglas, Mack Hollins and Hunter Henry.
49:48Cause that's, that's the top three target getters right now.
49:51You should not expect that passing offense to be particularly good.
49:54Now Drake's bad plays are tectonic natural disasters as opposed to just like negative plays.
49:58And that's on Drake, but they don't have good receivers.
50:00You're like, why are you throwing an F to kiss?
50:03It's a terrible play, but it's also like, why are you doing?
50:06At first I thought it was Hunter Henry and I was like, makes sense.
50:10And then I realized, no, it was white receiver in 86 is F to Chisholm.
50:14And I was like, all right, this is very silly.
50:17There's a through line between that and, and the girl wolf about the receivers, but we'll get to there with the team, the quarterback that you're giving up.
50:24Yeah. The other thing I'll mention in terms of also just trying to understand like, why is he so much worse?
50:30What's going on? The offensive line I thought was pretty disastrous against Jacksonville, particularly the right side, right guard, right tackle.
50:36We're just getting dog walks. I forget the right guard's name.
50:39It's Greg Van Roten who backed up in for a Mike and one.
50:42And he's like, yeah. And then, uh, Morgan Moses who Moses left the game and Caleb Loma goes in and like, yeah, it's for rest.
50:49And it's like, man, maybe it should be for performance.
50:52Mike. Literally just. Yeah. Walked him down a couple of times and I gasped at how bad it was.
50:57Um, so yeah, as far as like, I think.
50:59Just to kind of put a pin on it, some of the stuff he did last year was probably unsustainable.
51:05Some of it is natural young player. Some of it is pressing.
51:08Some of it is a receiver. Some of it is on the line.
51:11Some of it is the play calling. Sorry guys.
51:14There's always a million reasons why when we talk about things being bad.
51:17Um, I think for may, you know, the pressing is obviously an issue.
51:21He just has to do. There's like a light flashing behind you, by the way, look behind you.
51:26Do you see that? Your lamp. It's like blinking.
51:28It's like an alien. I think the bulbs gold could sound a couple of times.
51:32I think my new new AJ Brown saying I'm back.
51:35Apparently he's, he is healthy. So I think he's eligible to return week six.
51:39Good God. They need him. Um, but yeah, I think may, may he's just gotta, I think the thing about may too,
51:45is if he wasn't making those like a few boneheaded decisions a game, I don't, I think we would, he would obviously
51:50be, you know, not as good as last year, but we wouldn't be having these like, Oh my God, this is the worst.
51:57Yeah. What is happening conversations. He's just gotta stop making those absolutely abysmal decisions because, um, they're, they're game routers.
52:02Like in terms of EPA lost, he's just absolutely killing them.
52:05Yep. and also like some play action. Also like, you know what?
52:08Like maybe some like more scrambles. Like I think about, he even looked like he was playing more free as a rookie
52:14than he does right now when he was scrambling a lot.
52:17And I feel like he's got to get back there at least.
52:20He is extremely thinking on his feet. Yeah. 15.2% of his dropbacks and right now in an interception or a sack, that's almost one out of every six.
52:28And last year it was, it was like league average, right?
52:31It was like 9%. He takes a lot of sacks, but it was two yard sacks and one yard sacks.
52:36And you got me scrambling behind the line of scrimmage.
52:39If Drake can just get, again, the plays away from natural disasters and to just thunderstorms, this conversation will completely go away right now.
52:45It is. It is the fact that he is unspooling on his negative plays.
52:49There's still a ceiling cap on this offense because of the lack of talent, some of the design stuff, but the, the,
52:55the coaching point here is very simple. You walk into the meeting room on a Tuesday with a baseball bat, you bonk
53:01Drake on the head and you say, chill out, dude.
53:04Like you just got, you got to relax on some of these plays and we're, we're going to be okay.
53:09Why does that have to be a baseball bat?
53:12Can't stop it. That's too hard. I don't know.
53:14Like my, you know, my mother used to hit me with a slapo, like a hat, right?
53:19It would go back. Let's stop like that. So maybe that's what it needs to be.
53:23Instead. Your mom used to hit you with a hat.
53:26It's like, I like she would flack me, right?
53:28Like, you know, when you, when I was being, when I was eight years old and I was being an idiot in
53:34public, my mom, like, you know, Midwestern thing. No, it's, it's a, it's a immigrant thing.
53:38It's a Russian parents thing. She would, she would bonk me on the head.
53:42This is why I was asked about Bo Nix.
53:45And I came up with an idea, which is, uh, I just think he has the zoomies.
53:49And as someone who's been a dog owner for a long time, they need to take him out back before the stadium
53:55and let him run in a circle for 10 minutes before he plays.
53:59Just attempt like 15 crazy throws on the run across back with everything.
54:02And yeah, it'll be nice and calm without a little, like one of those things that you make dogs chase, you know,
54:08like little meat on a, but one of the automatic, uh, ball launcher ones, right?
54:12You'll bring it back. Uh, okay. You're a loser.
54:14I, I, I, I tease this when I talk about pass catchers being bad.
54:18Directions you go in here. That was, that would be mine, but who's your wife?
54:22The Houston Texans are all in three. Uh, this is my wife.
54:26You, you lose a very close one to the bills.
54:28All right. Almost had it there. You know, it came down last play.
54:32Oh, and one. And then you had to go to Cincinnati.
54:35You lose Neagle Collins during the week. That's brutal.
54:37All right. You're all in two, but listen up against the Colts, the team, you know, well, you're five and one, your last six against these guys.
54:44They're also, and two, you know, win this one, right.
54:47The ship, everything's going to be okay. A D'Amico Ryan's killed the team at the end of the game with game management
54:53is it is an inexcusable error in a regular context in an own two context with your offense being this limited.
54:59You, you can't be making these mistakes. The Colts are knocking on the door field goal range.
55:03It's first and 10 from the 45 yard line.
55:06One Oh two. The Texans have all three timeouts.
55:08They have a five yard run. So now it's second and five from the 40 or the edge of field goal range.
55:14D'Amico does not take the time out. Clock gets down to 29 seconds.
55:18The Colts are lining up with like two or three seconds left on the play clock.
55:22And then D'Amico takes it to like change the defense.
55:25You have eliminated the potential for you to have a final drive at the end of the game by making that decision.
55:31There's no world where the Colts run out of time here.
55:33The Colts have two timeouts of their own. There's no world where the Colts like, Oh, expired clock.
55:38We didn't get the kickoff. No, the only thing that the Colts are thinking about right now is making sure you don't
55:44get the ball back and you let them do it to you.
55:47And he said after the game, it was a mistake, but he didn't go for a fourth and four in the red zone in this game.
55:55He should have gone on. He didn't go for a fourth and one against the Bengals.
55:59The edgy field range. He should have gone on.
56:01He is doing the defensive coach day, which is we play field position.
56:05We play defense. We play those sporting games. But then when they go for a fourth and one, they get stuffed because
56:11they can't run the ball in short yardage. Yes.
56:13And, and I think. Not saying that I'm defending the non-going fourth down.
56:17I'm just saying like. But in both the Bengals and the Colts losses, he's had those early fourth down failures and then turtled on late fourth downs, right?
56:24Which is the logic of going on fourth downs only holds.
56:27If you do it over a large sample, you're going to get big peaks, low valleys, and it's going to come out as a win over time.
56:34If you fold every time you don't get one, then you actually are making some optimal decisions.
56:39You are hurting your team by going for these fourth downs.
56:42So a D'Amico, I think blows the end of the game situation.
56:45Offensively. I feel like for the last two years, I've come on this pod in the summer and been like, me and the Texans fix the offensive line.
56:53And you've been like, Hey, no, like don't believe that.
56:55Don't do this. And you did it to me in 25.
56:58And I came back in 26. I was like, Ooh, baby, I love Keelan Rutledge.
57:02Ooh, baby. We're one and two out for these games.
57:05Nick Haley is still walking out and 50% 11 personnel.
57:08We're getting a lot of Jared Wayne routes. Again, a lot of Xavier Hutchinson opportunities.
57:12We got a Hudson drop. It was in the sun, but it was a drop in this game.
57:17We had a Jared Wayne drop over the middle of the field on a play action pass.
57:21They are living in 11 with the idea that.
57:24Why? I thought for sure in this game, they would get the tight ends going against these Colts linebackers.
57:29After the chiefs literally obliterated them. Top target. Yeah.
57:31Hutchinson. Like I, I just look not having Nico Collins hurts losing Higgins before the season is a killer as well.
57:37But at a certain point, you gotta like, you can't keep force feeding the ball to these receivers because they're not going to win.
57:43They do not win. Yeah. And it's, it's your wide receiver one, your wide receiver two are down.
57:48And we started this pod by talking about Ben Johnson.
57:51Hey, you're on quarterback three. What are you going to do differently?
57:54And they walk out with just a completely different offensive philosophy.
57:57Right. And the Texans are here with walking out with the exact same offensive philosophy.
58:01They want to be a team that they aren't right now.
58:04They don't have the horses for it from a line perspective.
58:07You need to be, you know, multiple tight ends.
58:10You need to be designery and silly in the running game.
58:13It's gotta be pitches. It's gotta be one-offs. It's gotta be reverses.
58:16You got to cheese it. And then you got to be able to just nickel and dime your way down the field right now.
58:22Cause you don't want CJ, CJ, CJ takes an early sack to add a Tommy.
58:26out of a bar a against Evan Brown. And it's like, you can't be losing these one-on-one pass for snaps to this caliber of a defensive line here.
58:34So I still think the Texans are going to like win games.
58:37I mean, Nico Collins is going to come back from like a success rate perspective and EPA perspective.
58:42They're still like one of our better teams in the league.
58:45It's going to like be fine. They're going to win games.
58:48You're going to get back in the playoff picture, but to have gone Owen three in this stretch, right?
58:53When there's a mid season quarterback injury, right guys out for four weeks, we always say like, try to go two and
58:59two, just like, you know, stay afloat. The Texans have dramatically put themselves behind the ball for a second season in a
59:05row because of, in my ability, it allowed inflexibility coaching staff wise.
59:08Didn't even get to the defense where you're in a backup linebacker out there.
59:12Jake Hanson's playing for Henry. The Colts are hammering you with the, hammering you between the ashes and you don't have a solution.
59:18So I love the Texans. I love to make Orion's, but the inflexibility, they're stuck in their ways.
59:23I mean, Shane's like, I thought there was a real contrast in play calling acumen in this game.
59:28Like you said, like he's really good at like changing the game plan, attacking the weaknesses of the defense in a way
59:34that we just frankly have not seen Nick Kaley do with this offense.
59:37Um, yeah, it's really frustrating. It's especially frustrating because CJ Stroud is actually playing good football and it doesn't matter.
59:43Agreed. It just doesn't matter. Um, so I don't think it's over.
59:46Let's see. Let's look at the schedule. Actually, they got this week.
59:49All right. So this week you got the Cowboys.
59:52You should be able to move the ball on that defense.
59:54You should be able to attack. I mean, the Rams offense, which is extremely well designed and fun to watch.
60:00Um, I thought put some interesting things on tape, but, uh, then you got the Titans, Jags, Giants, Chargers, Browns.
60:05There's winnable games on this. I have no doubt.
60:08They're going to be like six and six. And we're going to be like, you know, knocking on the door of the playoffs.
60:14It's just, you didn't need to get this far down the hole on the Jags in the division.
60:19And you could, you could have, uh, you know, Bill's game could have won that one.
60:23Certainly this game specifically coaching errors. I thought from one to four decision-making schematics, everything.
60:27I was disappointed in the Texans outcome. So did I pick the Jags or the Texans?
60:31I can't remember. I'm so, I was so like, the Jags are a better team.
60:35Just pick the Jags. I swear to God. Um, all right.
60:38That's it for this week. Ben, what are you up to right now?
60:42I'm chilling. I'm hanging out. I'm having a good time.
60:45I have a five day a week NFL podcast releasing called ESPN league wide.
60:48It's available on all platforms. The first episode is out Monday.
60:51We're so excited. Next Monday will be the first episode recapping week four.
60:55And so, uh, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts as I love getting to say, subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts.
61:01What a feeling electric, um, ESPN, YouTube, go check it out.
61:04Thank you for, uh, yes, setting me up for the third pitch here as I get to finally send it home.
61:09League wide is the name of it with Ben.
61:12So lack. So check that who's gonna be on with you Monday.
61:15You know, Dan Graziano. He'll be great. Graziano. One of my favorite where in the world is Daniel Graziano every week coming
61:21from where he's at, uh, on the NFL reporting trail.
61:23It's gonna be fun. We have him on NFL live a lot.
61:27He's very fun. Hang. Um, I don't know. Maybe I'll get an invite at some point.
61:31We'll see. Haven't gotten it. Yeah. Asking everyone kind of needy to be honest, a little bit desperate.
61:36So it's kind of brutal. check that out wherever you get your podcasts.
61:39Uh, Ben's old podcast partner, Shilke Paddy is going to join me.
61:43Nice. Preview this upcoming week of games. A lot of good ones this week.
61:46I gotta say week four schedule better than week three.
61:49I always judge that because you know when, uh, Ben, you know this very well.
61:53I choose the games that both of us talk about some weeks.
61:56It's like, are there even five this week? There were like seven.
62:00I was like having really trouble grinding it down.
62:02So, uh, including of course, Broncos Niners. I will say I was, I've, I've been listening to the, the late week shows
62:08and I, I really don't miss being, you've been like, all right, Ben keys for Titans giants.
62:13And you've been like, ah, that's that. Uh, it's a, it was fun when I had to do it, but, uh, why does he run rant on Miami?
62:20Sure. Uh, yeah. This Dolphins games keep drying. Oh, my guy, Chris Bell, no H8 anymore, dude.
62:25No H8. It's going to be brutal to watch more targets for Chris Bell, who I have in dynasty.
62:30Chris Bell stock to the moon. Uh, all right.
62:32Thank you as always to Kirsten, Becky, Owen sailor, Jack Foster, Tucker Dashen, everyone at Omaha productions.
62:37Also, if you're watching lanterns or traders USA, uh, my recap pod with David Dennis Jr.
62:41And Charlie Kravitz comes out, um, on tomorrow on Wednesday morning.
62:44So. See ya. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Wow.