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0:30Zain Dhanani is an analyst at Fantasy Life. He's the host of The Cut-Up Show and he's the creator of Receiver Score.
0:36He's previously done work with the Milwaukee Bucks and ESPN.
0:39He's a dad, a sports nerd, and he's one of the best at aggregating news in the fantasy football space.
0:45These are his late round perspectives. Was it this week that you were in Charlotte or last week?
0:50Yeah, so I had a work trip. So I don't just do fantasy.
0:54I do a bunch of other stuff on the side.
0:57And I had a work trip in Charlotte and it was funny because I was like, wait a second, this lines up
1:03with the date that I'm basically supposed to be on with JJ.
1:06And I figured I would potentially reach out and I just had literally zero time while I was out there.
1:12Like it was all doing like business stuff. But next time I come in town, definitely going to hit you up.
1:18Yeah, man. Yeah, I always feel like people, they'll hit me up and they're like, oh, I was in Charlotte this past weekend or something like that.
1:26And I'm like, oh, well, like you want it.
1:29And they just mentioned that they're in the airport because everyone just flies through Charlotte Douglas all the time.
1:34That's just what because it's a hub. And so folks are in Charlotte constantly.
1:38But it sounds like you had business. You actually had business here.
1:42You got to get to hang out in Charlotte for a minute.
1:45Got to hang out. And you know what? It was funny because I was I was sitting there and I just flew in.
1:52And that's when I got the news that Jonathan Brooks was put on like IR or whatever he was doing.
1:58And I was like, yeah, is it me? Did I make this happen or or was this just like, you know, happenstance?
2:04Because I had been pretty big on Chuba this season.
2:07So it's kind of interesting to like be there.
2:09And then, you know, now Chuba is looking like a hot commodity, especially this week.
2:14So yeah, yeah, I keep bringing up the the Chuba Jonathan Brooks thing because it was such an interesting dynamic that I
2:20think a lot of season long players, that don't play best ball weren't totally aware of like what was going on in
2:26the summer and the way that like early on in the summer, you could have gotten Jonathan Brooks is like a 12th
2:33rounder and a lot of best ball drafts in the 13th rounder even a lot of best ball drafts.
2:38And you know, Chuba was like a sixth rounder and stuff.
2:42And then literally it flipped like it just completely flipped.
2:44And meanwhile, in season long drafts, it was always like they were kind of just close.
2:49And you know, a lot of these dress. I mean, obviously in like, you know, higher stakes leagues, you saw Jonathan Brooks
2:55go a lot higher than where Chuba went. My rankings had them like that more, more like very, very tight together as
3:02opposed to like seeing that, that really large gap.
3:04But it's just really interesting because I remember talking to Rich Ryan, my becoming a best ball bro co-host about it and
3:11being like, hey, I was drafting a lot of Jonathan Brooks earlier in the offseason.
3:15And now I'm drafting a lot of Chuba Hubbard and it's simply because of cost, you know, simply because this is this is what we got to do.
3:23It has to be an opportunity cost equation. And then I always like in the situation to like we always like the
3:29mystery box and it's like, hey, Jonathan Brooks is the mystery box.
3:33The guy that like is playing behind the guy that nobody's like very interested in as a talent.
3:38Nobody thinks that Chuba Hubbard's like a top like 15 running back in the NFL in terms of talent.
3:44And so it's like and the same thing happened last year with from Andre and Travion Henderson, where it was like, yeah, from Andre is just fine.
3:51But Travion could be anything. Right. So that's that's that's what was was playing out in my head most of the offseason.
3:58And I bought in at the beginning and then I was like, well, this could also not work out and I should just go with Chuba Hubbard.
4:06So, yeah, yeah, it ended up working out for like my high stakes stuff.
4:10And then for basketball to, you know, I didn't really write up the Jonathan Brooks train.
4:14Yeah, I looked at my my best ball exposure.
4:17I know that like no one cares about your fantasy league type stuff, but I was looking at my best ball exposure.
4:23I think I'm at 10% Brooks because of what because the early season stuff and then eight and a half to 9% Chuba.
4:30So I like looked at this. I'm like this really doesn't impact me versus the market that dramatically.
4:35But hopefully, you know, I think that I had I had good CLV on both guys just because I was just drafting
4:41the one when they were lower and the other one whenever they were or at least value.
4:46Maybe not CLV, but at least value in general.
4:49But anyway, this is your first time on perspective.
4:52So I want to get to know you a little bit.
4:55I think listeners should, you know, understand your background as well.
4:58You have a pretty interesting one. I mean, I came to know you a bit this summer with you doing so much
5:04work with news items and tweeting stuff out. I mean, I don't think anyone was cited more on the late round show
5:11this summer than you were by myself and David Kitchen.
5:13So I just want to know like how you got into all of this.
5:18You know, you have a really interesting background having done work for like the bucks and stuff like that.
5:23Like how did this all start and how did you start doing more in the fantasy space?
5:28Well, first, I want to say that I've been listening and reading to all your stuff like for so long number fire
5:34all sorts of different stuff going back. So really appreciate you having me on in general.
5:39But for me, it's been an interesting journey because, you know, coming out being in college like I was always into fantasy football.
5:46I've been in my home league. Shout out to the UCHT League for 25 years and I'm not that old.
5:51I'm 35. So this was something that we started when we were 10.
5:55Yahoo fantasy, I think back in the year 2000.
5:58So we started that out and then it just kind of moved into like, you know, I was the youngest one in the league.
6:05It was a lot of my brother's friends and me.
6:08And I'd always been kind of like an encyclopedia of like random like sports information over time.
6:12They tried out for this like show called Dream Job.
6:15I'm not sure if you remember it. Oh, I remember.
6:18I remember Mike Hall one dream job. Yeah, Mike Hall.
6:21That was the guy who actually won. Yeah, I loved that show.
6:25It was it was awesome. And it was like one of those things for me that was like this would be my dream.
6:31But I'm 10 years old, so I don't really have the opportunity to do it.
6:36But my brother and his friends all like tried out for it.
6:39And like they did like the quiz and all sorts of different stuff.
6:43I thought it was the coolest thing because they are sitting there studying random sports info like tennis and NASCAR and golf and then football and basketball.
6:51And it's like any question you could think of.
6:53And so my job with them was to literally prep them, like sit there and like quiz them on all this different stuff.
7:00Interestingly, when I was in elementary school, I was the guy that was getting all the sports almanacs and just reading those
7:06instead of like real books that moved into like when I was in college.
7:10I had an opportunity to actually play football in college at the D1 level, but I ended up fracturing my spine.
7:16I had my scholarship rescinded and was offered a preferred walk on at Rice University and I decided not to not to pursue that.
7:23What position did you play? I was I was safety.
7:26So nice. Yeah, nice. And nice. Like and, you know, Sean Taylor is like the guy that I grew up like worshiping
7:32before everything happened with him and stuff, too. Yeah.
7:35And Ed Reed and those those types of players.
7:38But anyway, moving past that, like I was so interested in football that I decided that I wanted to be like still
7:44very deep in the weeds on like the analytical components and different things like that.
7:48So I just ended up starting my own website when I was in college.
7:52It's called World Sport Report. It was so basic, but I had like learned a lot of like programming when I was
7:59in college and statistical analysis, and I thought it would be fun to apply all that kind of stuff to fantasy football
8:05and just see how it works out. Mm hmm.
8:08Comes to be that I ended up getting an opportunity at ESPN where they had an internship for people like, you know, that were aspiring analytics people.
8:15And the funny thing was like the tryouts for all of that was absolutely insane.
8:20It was like, OK, basically, you have to take the think about taking like 10 different sport goal quizzes on random subjects,
8:26not just like the NFL, but like, you know, women's golf and tennis and whatever.
8:31And that's basically what it was. And that's like a qualification, right?
8:34Like you want to like max people that probably don't have what it takes yet.
8:38So you get through that round, then you go to the next round and it's like, all right, now you need to
8:45come up with like storylines and come up with like really interesting, unique things that that you could build out that would
8:51be interesting for like a broad audience. And for me, that was pretty easy because I was a Cowboys fan.
8:57And so it's like everything you see on ESPN is the Cowboys, Lakers and Yankees, basically.
9:01Sure. So I could build out like stories and all sorts of different stuff like that, too.
9:06So I get through that round and eventually get the job.
9:10I'm an intern in the stats and information department and in the analytics department.
9:14So two separate things. Stats and information is the one that like when you hear when you heard like Stuart Scott growing
9:20up saying like, yeah, this is the first time this guy did this since whatever.
9:24Yeah, it's literally a dude like me handing him a note card researching and coming up with a stat and saying like, this is what it is.
9:32And so that was my job for a little bit.
9:35I actually did work with Stuart Scott, Linda Cohn, all like the guys that like, I don't know if you grew up
9:41watching ESPN like all the time and just having on replays.
9:44Yes. But all of those people. I actually, I still to this day say I genuinely mean this of all like the
9:51celebrity, you know, deaths that have occurred throughout my lifetime.
9:54I think I was it was most impacted. I think Kobe was one because it was just so crazy, you know, how it all went down.
10:01But Stuart Scott is the other one because he was such a like people our age, like literally if you like sports,
10:08you just grew up hearing his voice every morning before school.
10:11You know, like that was just part of your life.
10:14And yeah, so that's that's really, really cool. And replays like throughout the night, like if you had like friends over and
10:20stuff, you just had ESPN on and it was like it was just there.
10:24I'm going to watch it again because I can't see this unless and I missed the web gem.
10:29I missed whatever it was like, where is it?
10:32I need to I need to see it again.
10:34It'll come on next hour. OK, great. So anyway, got that opportunity and it was immaculate.
10:39It was one of those things that like felt like you were in a dream.
10:43I don't know if you remember the John Clayton commercial where he's like yelling at his mom saying like, yeah, my assignment, whatever.
10:50I was in the building where Trey Wingo and a couple other dudes I can't remember off the top of my head were Adam Schefter, Trey Wingo.
10:58We're sitting together watching it for the first time and absolutely cracking up.
11:02And I took a picture on my like flip phone or whatever it was at the time, which is so grainy.
11:08You can't even tell who they are. But I was like so excited that I had this opportunity to even be in
11:14close quarters with all these people and help impact their job and help them like perform on stage.
11:19Taking through all of that, I just didn't I didn't want the reason why that didn't work out for me was that
11:26I just didn't want to like live in Bristol, Connecticut.
11:28Like, and I think I think taking that moving on from that and moving into like just a standard like career job that I ended up doing.
11:36But but taking some of the skills and understanding like, hey, I know what I want to do.
11:41I want to do like analytics in sports, but I just want to develop the analytics skills even more and then eventually get back into it.
11:49So that's what led me to the Bucks. I got into the Milwaukee Bucks.
11:53They had an opening actually applied to be for the Bulls because I lived in Chicago and they said, like, you're great,
11:59but we already had a guy in mind. We're going to send you to this other team because they have an opening, too.
12:06And ended up getting that opportunity, which was awesome.
12:09Got to work closely with people in the in the front office finance.
12:12They had a 2K league that they were doing and they wanted someone to like help do analysis on who to draft
12:19in the 2K league, which was awesome. And like you get all these metrics of all these players and like, oh, great.
12:25This guy like does really good at stealing the ball.
12:28This guy does really good job at like protecting the rim.
12:31Like I want this guy on my team and building a roster.
12:35So it's really fun. But another situation that was it was before COVID.
12:38So it was a situation where I was like, I got to live in Milwaukee full time.
12:43And my wife did me a solid and said, hey, I'll move out to Milwaukee.
12:48And I just decided like we decided together that we wanted to start like trying to have a family and move back
12:54to the Chicagoland area where her family lives and all that kind of stuff.
12:58So left that opportunity, went back into like a traditional like corporate kind of job doing like analytics and strategy and all sorts of stuff.
13:05And that's kind of where I lived for a while until I linked up with the fantasy points guys.
13:11Yeah. Scott Barrett, Brett Whitefield. I saw them post a job about like, you know, hey, we have guys.
13:16We want people that like know football to come like work for us, blah, blah, blah.
13:21They gave me a quiz to like chart a bunch of stuff to see like how adept I was with football knowledge.
13:27And Brett Whitefield calls me out of like the blue one day.
13:31And he's like, hey, man, I just want to check and see if you're like a real person because you actually scored higher than I scored on this.
13:39And this is like my thing. And yeah, and I was like, no, this is real.
13:43I did do this myself. So that was that was like a really cool thing.
13:48And then I kind of like got with the charting team, did some stuff behind the scenes for fantasy points last season.
13:54Ended up building out a metric to called receiver score, which I know we're going to talk about, too.
14:00And then like throughout the season, just like wanted to do this combination of like film evaluation, combine it with some like
14:06news analysis, too, because we hear a lot of stuff that's going to happen for like matchups on a weekly basis that
14:12I think is hard to like incorporate without really understanding like what the two teams are going to end up doing.
14:18And then put that into perspective by writing a little bit and then also providing like information back to guys like Ryan
14:25Heath, who's like an awesome analyst that like, you know, is always looking for different data points and like perspectives.
14:31And then Scott Barrett, too, who is doing his podcast.
14:33And I would, you know, kind of send him information like day by day.
14:37And then going into the summer, I decided like maybe I should be more vocal on Twitter with all the stuff that
14:44I'm doing, like in the background and just like start posting and see what happens.
14:48Like if nobody is interested, that's totally fine. This is something that I'm doing anyway.
14:52And I think it started in like May where I was very, so I was doing best ball drafts and I'd been
14:59involved in like high stakes and best ball mania and all sorts of different stuff, maxing everything out.
15:04And I just decided like, I want to know more information about what's going on with Josh Downs.
15:09Is he going to be playing in two wide receiver sets?
15:12Is he not? Yeah. And I found this random like local video on, I think it was like XM like 1010 or something in Indy.
15:20And he was talking about it and he was like, my opportunities are coming.
15:24I'm going to be playing on the outside more this season, etc.
15:27And I was like, this feels like an information edge.
15:30I'm going to like tweet this out and see what happens.
15:33Yeah. Then like Sleeper picked it up. It got like super viral.
15:37And I just decided like, I'm just going to keep doing this and see what happens.
15:41Like if people are interested in that information, that's awesome to me.
15:45And I felt like the way that I wanted to do it was different than what I think you get from like
15:51an underdog or a rotowire or rotoworld or whatever.
15:54And that they usually put like, just like the headline of what happened and like no analysis into the actual information.
16:00And what I wanted to do is just give my perspective, like watch a lot of film.
16:05I look at all the numbers. I want to take what I hear and put it into perspective and see if that's like valuable to people.
16:12Because, you know, your casual fan doesn't know like what it means with Josh Downs playing in two wide receiver sets or three.
16:19Like they just assume like, hey, this guy plays on 60% of the routes, like not worth it for fantasy or whatever.
16:25And so like putting that context together and like how they could potentially utilize him, I thought was valuable to people.
16:31And, you know, ended up, I think this season, I felt like I was more prepared going into drafts than I feel
16:38like I ever have been because I ended up putting things out there that I felt I did like triple confirmation, quadruple confirmation on a lot of stuff.
16:46Whereas in previous years, I would probably just like read one article and be like, yep, that's that's probably what it is.
16:52Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's it's interesting because like that's where I, you know, like you said, you started like doing more
16:58of the tweeting and sending that stuff out. And that's when I caught on.
17:02I mean, like I'm pretty like I know what's going on on fantasy Twitter for the most part.
17:08So like I can see stuff that's like snowballing, getting bigger and bigger.
17:11And then eventually, like I said, once Kitchen and I started seeing those tweets so frequently, like we could easily just, you
17:18know, for like our news section with the late round show, we'd always be like, all right, what's Zane tweeting about?
17:24Let's see if there's anything in there that we could throw up there.
17:28And then, you know, obviously we'd cite you and talk about you and stuff.
17:32But I do want to ask, you know, there's a lot of discussion each year about the noise that can often come
17:38with beat reports and coach speak items and all that kind of stuff.
17:42So my question to you is, what was one thing that you think was like by far the most predictive this offseason?
17:48What was one thing that was maybe horrific and just like way off the mark?
17:52And then where what are your thoughts on just like the importance of sifting through this?
17:57And obviously there is some importance, but like, do you think that there is sort of this like line that you're towing
18:03of not taking it too far and obviously leaning into what the analysis is saying versus what some of these beat reporters are saying?
18:10Yeah. So what I would say is that you can't necessarily just lean in and say like, hey, if I read like
18:17two articles and I've and I heard that this was going to happen, you should lean into it.
18:22I think you have to match it with what you think is is probable to end up happening and whether it makes
18:28sense in the context of what the team wants to accomplish as well.
18:32And that's the reason why I feel like my spin has been a little bit different is that like it's not just,
18:38oh, Parker Washington's getting all this buzz. It's like, no, he's getting all this buzz.
18:43But like Liam Cohen texted him and and like that doesn't just happen out of the blue.
18:48And and Trevor Lawrence is talking about him constantly and saying like he like trust him like to the nth degree.
18:54And then he's playing this slot role, Liam Cohen's offense, where we saw Chris Godwin be a top two wide receiver before he got injured.
19:01And then you start hearing practice reports where it's like this guy's unstoppable and he's doing it day after day.
19:07But you can't just read the practice reports. It's it's how they're doing what they're doing, too, because when I was trying
19:13to discern like, OK, it sounded like BTJ was having a great like some training camp and all sorts of different stuff.
19:19But I would tweet this out constantly. It was he connected on another deep ball with Trevor Lawrence.
19:25And that just gives you an understanding and insight into what the role he is going to play is, which is a vertical receiver.
19:32And A.D. Mitchell's a vertical receiver. There's so many other like types of players that are like, hey, this is a guy
19:38that's going to run deep a bunch. If you look at the like average depth of route, which I actually I wrote
19:44a long article on how important route depth is.
19:47BTJ is like near the top. I think he might be second or third in the NFL in terms of route depth right now.
19:54And so like they were spot on in terms of signaling what the role is.
19:58You need to be able to be the person that's able to translate that into fantasy value.
20:03It's great that BTJ is catching all these deep balls so hard to perform really well and be consistent performer in fantasy football when you're doing that.
20:11And that's what I've captured with like receiver score, too, is like trying to understand like roles in the offense and what
20:17they translate to in terms of fantasy. So I felt like that entire situation felt very predictive when you're able to source
20:24it from so many different spots and you hear like, well, Travis Hunter is not playing in the slot.
20:29He's also not playing on offense very often. So now you start taking away the things that were detractors to a Parker Washington situation.
20:36And basically, then you hear the interview of like, I'm playing in 12 personnel, 13 personnel.
20:41You know, Liam Cohen talks about how he's going to play on the outside, too.
20:45And you come into week two and it's all there.
20:48That's exactly what ends up happening. It's a 90% route share, 39% targets per route run, whatever metric like you're using or
20:54whatever website you're using, it might be different. But he has shown that he's functionally like a wide receiver one this season.
21:01And that was one of the big things for me that I was like, you know, obviously I came into it like
21:07hoping that would be the case when I was looking for the information.
21:11But there are a ton of situations where I backtracked like running back situations where, you know, historically, I'd listen to you
21:17and read your draft guide where it's like, ambiguous backfields.
21:20You want like the pass catchers. And this season, I like felt like I leaned into guys like Jordan Mason and Ja'Cory Cross.
21:27I did too. And J.K. Dobbins. I did too, even.
21:29Yeah. And so I just thought that was interesting, like because I felt like the news was leaning into that instead of,
21:36hey, this Rashad White guy is going to do stuff or whoever.
21:39Right. So we'll see how all of that ends up playing out.
21:43We can't necessarily like understand all of that to the nth degree yet.
21:46But I just thought it was interesting to play out all of those situations and hear what we've heard and start.
21:53I actually started building some like reliability scores in the background for some of the beat writers that I felt like had
21:59enough content to be able to do it. But and one Ben Standig is one that like is like spot on for anything.
22:06He's a beast. Yeah. Anything he does commanders wise is like on the money.
22:10So when he started talking about Ja'Cory Cross and Merritt, I was like, I need to take this guy.
22:15Now, having having Jaden Daniels injured and then being in a really poor game script last week against the Cowboys didn't help.
22:21But it seems like functionally they do want him to be pretty involved.
22:25Also, his fumble didn't help you there. But yeah.
22:28One thing I do want to bring up about that, because you bring up the ambiguous backfield thing and generally targeting pass
22:34catchers, which historically has been what has won out.
22:37Right. And there was a play like you mentioned Jordan Mason.
22:40That was one player that I kind of like flipped on and was like, no, I'm going to actually target, you know,
22:46his ADP started to creep up towards the end of draft season.
22:50So it wasn't as obvious. But there's at one point during the draft season where there were some platforms who's going like
22:56140th overall, you know, 145th overall is crazy. The one thing I'll say, though, and this is something that I brought up
23:02on the show on the late round show and on other shows in the past, too, is that sometimes I do feel
23:09like and I want to just hear your take on this.
23:12I feel like beat reporters when they talk about backfields, they are putting too much of an emphasis on the things that
23:18we might not care as much about from a fantasy football perspective.
23:22You know, like some of the guys you mentioned there, you know, like a Dobbins or like a Krosky Merritt or what
23:28have you like, there's still the pass catching component that was definitely not there for either guy in the previous year.
23:34Right. And then the beat reporters come out and be like, no, this is, you know, this is Dobbins backfield to loot
23:41like that kind of stuff, you know? And the issue I've always had with that is it's probably not wrong.
23:46And from the from the lens that these people are viewing this from right.
23:50That lens being that they're trying to see who's going to mostly see the most ground game work, you know, because that's
23:57what they view as the function of a running back, you know, because they're running the football.
24:02But realistically, from a fantasy perspective, we know that in a full PPR format, a target is going to be two and
24:08a half times the value of a running back rush.
24:11Well, right. Even in half PPR and standard, a target is more valuable than a running back rush.
24:16So do you run into that? Do you think sometimes as well?
24:20Like like, is that something that's crossed your mind a bit?
24:23Is that like the way these beat reporters are going to dissect this is not necessarily a one to one of how
24:29we would specifically for the running back position. I think that, you know, wide receivers a little bit, you know, like the
24:36BTJ example is probably like the most clear, you know, in the way that we can dissect and kind of like break down what a beat reporter saying.
24:44But what about the running back position? Like what are some of the things that you are looking for?
24:49I think it depends with Ben standing. It was very, very clear what he was trying to describe.
24:54It's like this guy is the running back. He is getting the running work and they want him to expand his abilities
25:01to also do some pass catching stuff so that it's not obvious for the defense to know like, hey, you're on the
25:07field and now we're just going to be, you know, running the ball.
25:11So to me, like that was very clear. In other situations, it's less clear.
25:15With JK Dobbins, it was never about the pass catching.
25:18It was more like if this team is good as is a good team and they have a good defense, you might
25:24get a team that's running the ball a lot.
25:27And in certain situations, it's valuable to have a running back that's just just doing the rushing stuff on teams that are winning.
25:33Like, look at we're not going to compare him to Derrick Henry, but like it's functionally a lower version of what Derrick
25:40Henry is where you're not getting much pass catching.
25:42But when the team's winning, he's like a smash in fantasy pretty much every week that they win.
25:47Right. So I was kind of thinking a similar like storyline for a guy like a guy like JK Dobbins or Jordan Mason.
25:54You know, they were kind of talking about him being like the early down, like basically like the the lead running back
26:00or lion share of the rushing work. And so for me, it was like, OK, at least I'm probably getting like the
26:07hammer that's getting like the goal line touches to without much of the receiving work.
26:11And that's like that could be valuable. This offense is good.
26:14Like they I know they have a good defense.
26:17What if like Tyler makes their offense good enough and then they just end up having like this pretty strong season and
26:23he's effectively like getting a Jamal Williams type of season where it's like and for people that haven't that didn't play fantasy
26:30a couple of years ago or Jamal Williams was good, but he he had he led the NFL in touchdowns.
26:35So it's possible that you get that type of opportunity out of some situations, especially when it's cost prohibitive.
26:41Like these were situations where the running back costs have gone back up to where they used to be closer to where they used to be.
26:48And so we're looking for needles in a haystack of finding some value in situations that are like way lower priced than everybody else.
26:55And so it's like, all right, I guess I'll take Jordan Mason because if we get that crazy opportunity where this offense
27:02does ascend, I know he's going to be the early down hammer and get the touchdown opportunities like that.
27:07That's going to be interesting to me. They also talked about switching that run scheme up to be more like Shanahan asks.
27:14Yeah. And so like to me, that was another like data point where I was like, we've seen him in that type of offense.
27:20He did pretty well on like all the metrics you want to look at, like efficiency wise and stuff like that too, from a running perspective.
27:28So maybe there's a chance that he gets back to that.
27:31Yeah. I also think the market in general, to your point about running backs being pushed up more in drafts, you know,
27:38Brandon Gadula did a really good piece on sort of the, like what happened to running back?
27:42Like what's going on with running back receiving volume essentially.
27:45And there's been this death of like the satellite running back.
27:49Like we just haven't seen that play. And there were some guys this year where we're like, well, that could be maybe
27:55Kenneth gain well, or that could be this guy.
27:57And it really like, even those players haven't really come to fruition so far.
28:02It's only week two. We have no idea how it's going to really play out.
28:06But like, I also think that was another reason as to why number one, you should be drafting running backs earlier.
28:12You know, I had, I wrote about that in the draft guide a bit, but number two, it was another reason why
28:18when you're in the later rounds, you're like, well, there's not really these like pass catching running backs to choose from.
28:24If I was in some sort of predicament of, Hey, I didn't get running backs early.
28:29You know, maybe I went like hero RB and I just need some of this depth.
28:34I got to throw some darts somewhere. So I might as well throw the darts in this direction just because there aren't,
28:40it's not like there were these like very obvious pass catching backs later anyway, to begin with.
28:45So I do think that that's, that's also important.
28:47I do want to bring up the receiving score stuff because you've now the receiver score stuff because you brought it up a couple of times now.
28:55Talk to me about that model and if you have any like clear buys and sells at this moment and you know,
29:02basically what goes into it and how you think about it.
29:05Yeah. So I have like an article on fantasy life that, that goes, that I'm actually, that will be live like later
29:11today that talks about every single receiver and tight end that matters in fantasy, like at all.
29:16And whether there's a buy, a strong buy, a fade or whatever it is.
29:20Right. So the funny thing is, is this all started last season.
29:24I decided to build a model because I was working with fantasy points using their data and just said like, Hey, it
29:30would be awesome if I could use all of this charted information to basically say like, like from at the, at the
29:36highest point, I was just thinking like, we basically have both the offensive and defensive playbooks for every single situation that exists for the past like five years.
29:44So don't, doesn't that feel like something where we could run like a simulation of understanding like which routes bring value in
29:51what offensive system with which quarterback with down and distance, how the coverage is playing out all sorts of different stuff.
29:57So I ended up like building a model based off of that.
30:00And it became decently powerful last year. It was very high on Parker Washington, like kind of before he actually hit maybe
30:07like mid season saying like, Hey, he's in a role that's like pretty valuable on a small sample size on a per route basis.
30:14So I was trying to use some of that stuff to like understand like functionally, which guys would be valuable in fantasy.
30:20And that was one that like super hit. Now there's definitely times where it doesn't hit as much, you know, with any
30:26model, there's situations where it's like, it doesn't have the information of like, well, you know what now Jaden Daniels is out.
30:33So like, is Stefan Diggs really going to be that great this week against the Seahawks?
30:37Probably not. But I have built it coming into this season to be forward looking instead of like descriptive looking backwards.
30:43I have it now looking forward and trying to predict out like what would happen against this, this team if they're playing
30:50this team with this quarterback and all sorts of different stuff.
30:53You know, it's interesting. We already talked about Parker Washington, so I don't have to mention him too much, but he's showing
30:59up as like a basically elite wide receiver one this season.
31:02And it's, it, it doesn't, it doesn't care about the actual production.
31:06The player does have like, I think that that's like kind of misconstrued.
31:10It cares about if they're doing things that are valuable for the offense and becoming a focal point.
31:15If you think about like first read rate being something that matters, being the first read on a, on a play does matter for fantasy.
31:22And whether you get the ball or not, or whether it's a bad pass or the quarterback's able to get it to you.
31:29All of those things definitely have an impact, but just the fact that the team has basically said like, you're a focal
31:35point is extremely predictive of what's going to happen.
31:38Then like we talked about before route depth was something I was very high on this offseason, like talking about.
31:43And that's another really strong predictor of all of this stuff.
31:47Like a lot of times we see a dots and a dots don't always align back to route depths because sometimes players
31:53just don't get targeted deep at all. Uh, and they just do wind sprints, but then they get targeted like on their
31:59screen pass that they took or like a little like drag route or something like that.
32:04And so it just like, doesn't always match up a hundred percent.
32:07Uh, but receiver score like values these vertical routes, like very little because it knows, especially against teams that play like a
32:14too high defense, like those defenses are designed to stop a receiver and keep everything in front of them.
32:19So naturally it's going to say like, this guy's not really that valuable for this.
32:24Um, so those types of things that I think are kind of interesting knowing like the coverage with players on the field,
32:30um, whether they're in tight splits where they're out wide and like down in distance wise, like how the team utilizes these
32:36different players and what their role is in the offense.
32:39It's, it's basically trying to grade every single route and say like based off of all the routes combined, we believe that
32:46your expected target probability for the season is like 20%.
32:48Whereas like a guy like BTJ, it's like 15%, you know?
32:52So that doesn't always have to match up with the actual production.
32:55It's just like, that's a good way of understanding if someone's a fade or, or a buy low or, or what have you.
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34:49Nationwide Investment Services Corporation. Member FINRA, Columbus, Ohio. When it comes to the depth of route, are you looking at the types of routes that they're running?
34:56And then have you found a good stickiness with that year over year in the deployment?
35:01Because obviously there's going to be some... This is the thing with modeling that I think that we should just preface and
35:07say just in general is that you're generalizing a large sample to say this is what usually happens.
35:13It's not going to just always happen with every single player, as you noted earlier with like, yes, this is something that
35:19you could have seen with Parker Washington, but then there's going to be some misses in there and things that it just doesn't capture and see.
35:26But if you're looking at the route types and such, have you found there to be a good stickiness with that in
35:33the way that these teams are deploying these individual wide receivers?
35:36Is that different too? Like, does it become a little bit noisier when there's like coaching changes and obvious things that are just shifting within a team environment?
35:44No, I mean, so there are some things that are pretty predictive and the model takes into account all of it.
35:50A lot of it is like multivariate though. So it's like, yeah, running a slant is great, but like running a dig,
35:56a dig being like a 10 yard in basically off of play action is the most valuable route in all fantasy because
36:03a lot of times what ends up happening on a play action play.
36:07And this is the great part about the model is that I can, I can see what the implied target probability is
36:13for a player and then go watch the film and say like, do I agree with it or do I not agree with it on that individual play?
36:21But for a play action dig route, typically what will end up happening is those linebackers come up and try to stop the run.
36:28And so that dig route is designed to just be like right behind the linebackers and in front of the safeties.
36:34And what, what the model is telling me is that this is this, this route in itself, like in this combo of
36:40stuff is worth like two X any other route in football right now.
36:44And you see it, uh, actually Parker Washington runs it a ton.
36:48Uh, he did it last week and I posted a clip of it on Twitter because I thought it was relevant to,
36:54um, like the receiver score model stuff where I think he had Riley Moss on him in the slot and he, they
37:00did a little play action fake and he got like wiggled open and then he almost broke a tackle.
37:06He would have scored a touchdown if he would have like not gotten shoestring tackled.
37:10But those are the types of things that I think like the model brings out and that I'm able to go back
37:17to the tape and say like, does this make sense or does this not make sense?
37:21And for the most part it, it, it does like you can see the play envelope, like develop and how like the
37:27high low situation and route combos, like it's designed for this player to get the ball.
37:32What you asked, like by low strong buys, all sorts of stuff like that.
37:36So I'm going to, I'm going to take away the obvious names like Christian Watson, Parker Washington, strong buys, like model loves
37:43those guys, um, for many different reasons. And it takes into account like offensive environment and stuff too.
37:48But another one that I think is popping up, but I'm not sure is popping up high enough, uh, yet is Jalen Coker.
37:54The model absolutely loves him and basically sees him as like nearly the same level as Tedrow McMillan.
38:00McMillan in the model right now is getting a like wide receiver 14 ish ranking and Jalen Coker's at 15, right?
38:06But right behind him. And a lot of it comes from the fact that like there's so much target consolidation that happens
38:12in this offense, the way that they run their offense personnel matters too.
38:16Like if you think about it, if there's two tight ends on the field, that means that these other receivers have a
38:22higher implied target probability because tight ends usually aren't going to get targeted as often.
38:26Um, and then the other receiver on the field with them a lot of times is Xavier Leggett and he's just running like wind sprints down the field.
38:35The equivalent of a tight end anyway. Exactly. And so it basically is saying like the ball is going to these two guys like nearly all the time.
38:43Right. And then the routes that they're running, Jalen Coker is actually playing in the slot more often than Tedrow McMillan.
38:49And then he's actually, this is another thing that's valuable for fantasy is being the receiver that's in motion when the ball is snapped.
38:56And Jalen Coker is getting a decent amount of that compared to Tedrow McMillan.
39:00He's still playing in the slot. He's still in motion.
39:03He's just not getting it as much as Coker.
39:05So all of these like extra little, like what I call like fantasy cheat codes.
39:09You, you play, you probably played Sega growing up.
39:12I always think of game genie as like the thing, you know, all of these fantasy cheat codes, the game genie, if
39:18you will, for fantasy are all like aligning for Jalen Coker to basically offset what is probably already like a minimal talent
39:25difference between him and Tedrow McMillan to where it's like, these are basically a 1A, 1B caliber of player right now.
39:31And I think like the market hasn't fully caught up.
39:34I think we are all like in on the Jalen Coker hype, but most people are saying like, Hey, he's a wide receiver three.
39:41And the model is like, no, he's, he's a wide receiver two.
39:44He's a high end wide receiver two. And if they keep doing this and this offense, like overall their past, their past
39:51offensive sends could end up in that like backend wide receiver one category.
39:54Eventually is the data that you're working off of for Coker McMillan.
39:58Is that based off of the two game sample or is the, does that take off of what happened in 2020?
40:04It takes the previous history too. So like early season, it's going to have some of like what happened in, uh, in history as well.
40:11So that it's not just taking on this, but it is trying to understand the nuances of the, uh, Brad Edzik offense,
40:17which is obviously going to be a little bit different than what Dave Canales is doing.
40:22And so like trying to merge those two things together and then understanding that there's, you know, players get better, players get worse year over year.
40:30There's like different deployments that end up happening. So keeping in some history is helpful so that you don't get like these
40:36wild up and down swings, but there's still some like signal in like, well, they're doing something completely different with these players now.
40:43So we should adjust our prayers a little bit on these players.
40:46So we had a couple of big quarterback injuries this past week with Jane Daniels, obviously going to be on an extended
40:52period of time, Jackson Dart now out for the year.
40:55And so I want to ask you how you're, because we, I've seen so many takes about the pass catchers there specifically
41:02like Malik neighbors, I think is probably the biggest one that folks want to just understand and know more about.
41:07So where are you at with the remaining players on those teams and how you're looking at a McLaurin and a Stefan Diggs in the backfields as well?
41:15Yeah. So what I try to do is like value each individual quarterback and their replacement to understand like what the, almost
41:22like what a Vegas value would be for this player if they're in or out.
41:26Right. So when I modeled this for Jackson Dart going to Jameis, it's basically like a one and a half point like
41:33spread that you give based off of like Jameis being in instead of Dart.
41:37So like valuable, but not the most critic, like not the most critically different thing like in terms of replacement.
41:42Jaden Daniels is way different. 3.25 value over replacement versus Marcus Mariota.
41:46And so that's like a pretty big downgrade and it's not the biggest downgrade you could see.
41:51Like if Joe Burrow was out and we got, well, that's probably not a great example because we got Joe Flacco and he's, he's okay enough.
41:58But you know, if, if it was Patrick Mahomes and we had to go to like Justin Fields, I think you'd see
42:05like a five point or more swing in all of that kind of stuff.
42:09And we saw it with like, you know, they had their, their third string quarterback last year.
42:14Was it a ludicom or something like that? That was, that was, yeah, yeah.
42:18I tried to, I tried to black out or, you know, block out anything that happened with that offense towards the end of 2025.
42:25But yes, yes. Something crazy. So that's kind of how I'm value.
42:28That's how I start out my evaluation. And then I just kind of kind of look at like, okay, when Jameis has
42:34been out there previously, take away the Rams game.
42:37He was in like an unfathomable, unfathomable situation coming into a game against what I still think is going to be an
42:43elite defense this season with elite cornerback play. Aaron Donald actually looked awesome in that game too.
42:48Like he looked like nothing ever happened. All right.
42:51Now let's evaluate what he looks like in these other matchups that are coming up like, like this week.
42:56And I think the Titans have a very poor secondary right now.
43:00They're outside cornerbacks, their safeties, not very good. And their pass rush is also not like great.
43:05So I think it sets up for Jameis to actually be able to functionally operate where he can support one to two weapons.
43:11Whereas a guy like Mariota going against Seattle this upcoming week, like that's the worst situation possible.
43:16Right. Going to play, playing the Cowboys, which is like free fantasy points to playing against the Seahawks, which is like negative
43:23fantasy points, even for a guy like Jaden Daniels.
43:25That sets up for a really tough situation. Guys like this usually are only able to support like maybe one option in the offense.
43:32And Diggs is going to go against a guy like Von Weatherspoon.
43:36Shout out to University of Illinois. That's where I went to college.
43:39He's from my alma mater. And then Terry McLaurin also has a really tough matchup on the outside too.
43:45And so it's like, I don't want, I don't want anything to do with this commander's offense this week.
43:50But with the Giants, I'm totally into Malik Neighbors because I think Jameis will still unleash and unlock like some downfield passing.
43:56The question with Neighbors is really just the shoulder injury and whether he's going to actually play the full snaps and what
44:03that all is going to look like. We're recording this on Thursday.
44:06And so my mailbag will be out on Friday morning and then this will come out right after that.
44:12But on the mailbag, I talked about the Malik Neighbors situation in particular.
44:15And I looked at Jameis. Jameis Winston has the most just raw passing yards per start of any quarterback in the league since the start of 2024.
44:23Right. And this is a player who this is now spanning multiple offensive systems.
44:27Right. Last year, he was technically second among quarterback passing yards per quarterback start.
44:31Malik Willis, who had one start. He dominated the Ravens last year.
44:35He was in first. And yes, we're working with small samples here.
44:38But the year before that, it was seven starts.
44:41And that was when he unlocked Jerry Judy. And Jerry Judy became really relevant as a fantasy football asset.
44:46And like, I don't know, I feel like if we were to like, if I were to go to you and say,
44:53hey, Zane, beginning of the year, Jameis Winston is going to be Malik Neighbors quarterback this year.
44:58I feel like you might even be excited about that from a fantasy perspective.
45:02You know what I mean? I actually like this is not I did think about that before the season.
45:07And I was like, Jackson Dart, like concussions. We're going to see we're going to see Jameis Winston.
45:12My brother drafted Jameis in one of his big board drafts that are like 20 rounds deep as like a backup in
45:19basketball just because he was like this. This dude's going to play at some point.
45:23And with the extra two rounds, you can you can afford to make a mistake, I guess.
45:28But anyway, with with Jameis, like I also think of it as like a slight positive because he's unafraid to throw the ball into coverage.
45:35Right. And so that is super favorable for receivers.
45:38And then on top of that, the other thing that I think about with him is that he is less likely to
45:44take off and scramble, which just gets you like a few more dropbacks, a few more.
45:49Sorry. Past attempts in a game. Right. Exactly. So there's more target opportunity out there for a guy like Malik Neighbors.
45:55And I was looking at my ranks compared to like a lot of other kind of like consensus stuff.
46:00And I think I like I'm one of the higher people this week on Malik Neighbors because I think the matchup is great going against this Tennessee defense.
46:08And then I'm not afraid of Jameis Winston. It's really just coming down to like what the shoulder situation is for Malik Neighbors.
46:15And it seems like he's going to play. I think that it really comes down to the shoulder.
46:20So like if you're listening to this and you're like, hey, should I trade for Neighbors?
46:25It's just a, you know, like you and I aren't doctors.
46:28Like we can't say for sure how that's going to go down.
46:32You know, I've seen Jeff Mueller who does really, really great work, who is not as bullish about neighbor shoulder situation.
46:38And that's scary for sure. So you should factor that in.
46:41But at the same time, like, you know, and then there were also I should throw out there.
46:46There are reports out there from Shefty saying that the Giants could hypothetically look at a trade for a Mac Jones or
46:52a Gardner Minshew or something like that. To me, if it's Mac Jones, you could argue, hey, this might actually be still
46:59OK from just a fantasy perspective because he's been a very usable piece.
47:02You know, I think a lot of times when this kind of stuff happens, there's always these like dreamed up scenarios of like teams trading for players.
47:10So like I definitely don't want to go all in and say, oh, that's definitely going to happen because typically it doesn't.
47:17And I know Jameis just got a new contract and stuff, but I just don't know if they're really going to go down that path.
47:24So, yeah, overall, if we were to make these assumptions, because we kind of have to write when we're prognosticating here, you
47:30know, from a probability perspective, if Malik neighbors is healthy, if Jameis Winston is his quarterback, I still rest of season have
47:37Malik neighbors is like a high end wide receiver to like I still don't feel like he's been dominant with Tommy DeVito
47:43and, you know, Russell will like like washed Russell Wilson and all these quarterbacks drew lock.
47:48He had a 2.52 yards per out run rate with drew lock under center, you know, like Malik neighbors is a special, special talent.
47:54And I don't want a four quarter sample where his shoulder popped out of the socket and Jameis Winston came in off
48:01the bench to overshadow the greater picture. You have to remember that, like the situation is that they play in this NFC East.
48:07They still have three games left against the commanders and Cowboys, which are like two of the secondaries you want to exploit a lot.
48:14Like they're Swiss cheese in terms of defense. So yeah, like I think that.
48:18I think different leagues are going to have a different perspective on him.
48:22And in some leagues, people are probably really scared that own him.
48:26And those are the situations where like if they're willing to get rid of him for like a wide receiver, three level talent, do it.
48:33Go for it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, just like these are like if you can package up players that are fringe flex to,
48:39you know, usable like start worthy players and you do a two for one for a neighbors.
48:44I mean, you got to do that kind of thing.
48:47It's in my opinion. You got to play to win.
48:50You got to do that kind of thing all day long.
48:53The valuations are going to be all over the place.
48:56You can't definitively say you would buy or sell.
48:59There is a lot of doom and gloom speak about neighbors right now where we might be able to take advantage of
49:05that if that is happening in your league too.
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50:17Nationwide Investment Services Corporation, Ember Finra, Columbus, Ohio. I want to ask you and get more into like what's been going on so far.
50:24What's been the most surprising thing for you from a fantasy football perspective so far this year?
50:29I thought I did not think so. I was not in on this like Dalton Kincaid like resurgence.
50:35Yeah. I knew like the fan. Like I knew that he was always like a huge targets per route run guy, all sorts of different stuff.
50:42But I kind of bought in. The analytics love Dalton Kincaid.
50:45That's what had me on him. And yeah, and I'm into I'm into the analytics, but I just never believed that he
50:52would get enough of the route share. Yeah. And that this offense would like transition into this crazy like point scoring passing
50:58offense that it turned into to elicit this to happen.
51:01It's funny because I so I worked closely with Dwayne McFarlane and we were talking about this like in depth on one
51:07of our pods that we did together. And we were talking about like the utilization in the preseason.
51:12And we both came to the agreement that if Ben Van Sumeren, the fullback on the team, didn't make the roster, that
51:19this would be a really positive thing for Dalton Kincaid because they would need to play this like more 1312 personnel situation
51:25or he would be on the field more. It didn't they didn't sign Ben Van Sumeren.
51:30They cut him. And then I was kind of like, OK, this is a wheels up situation a little bit, but I'm
51:36not going to get carried away with it because like still they could just decide to bring someone else in or whatever.
51:42Sure. But it's transpired into like roughly a 70 percent route share, which is like good enough for a guy that's going
51:49to get 30 percent target targets per route run.
51:51Right. Like at the tight end position, that's that's awesome.
51:54And then in an elite offense, you get like that that surplus value with like there's so much touchdown equity that can happen.
52:01They're putting him in like real receiving routes, not just like leaking him out of the, you know, doing like a press
52:07and release, like blocking and then kind of coming out and leaking out.
52:11And so like all of those things are are translating to this like immaculate season where I'm I'm kind of worried that
52:17I'm still too low on him at like tight end five.
52:21Like, I feel like, yeah, I feel like he could be tight end three or two or something like that.
52:26I haven't met. I haven't met three right now.
52:29Rest of season. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but that's coming from a perspective.
52:33Like I was I had him at tight end eight entering the year from a rankings.
52:37So I was way higher than the market on Kincaid.
52:40But, you know, that's not a, you know, guys, I like Luther Burden.
52:44OK, I always have to like throw out a something I got wrong.
52:48So people don't think that I'm just back patting.
52:50But I had a, you know, Kincaid a tight end eight.
52:53I think that I would very comfortably like he's in my top 50 rest of season.
52:58You know, whenever you add running backs and wide receivers and such, it's just the usage is amazing.
53:03And he's been so good per route run throughout his career from like a fantasy scoring standpoint.
53:08You know, like you said, targets per route run and yards per route run last year was incredible.
53:13And so right now the bills are leading the league in 12 and 13 personnel usage, too.
53:18And like that's obviously what you were talking about just now and the way that the bills would would kind of transform
53:25their offense, you know, with and without the fullback, especially.
53:28And I think that we're seeing that. So, yeah, I mean, is that the player?
53:32Would you say that you were lower on or that you you're nervous about moving forward of you maybe didn't get enough
53:38or you weren't like high enough on him? And now there's just some some nerves because he's performed so well.
53:44Yeah, that's one. Another one would be Jonathan Taylor.
53:47But I kind of like knew that Jonathan Taylor would do what Jonathan Taylor is doing.
53:51It was just a fade on like how sticky.
53:54So I did some research this offseason about like running backs who aren't pass catchers that end up with like these crazy like high point totals.
54:01And you've probably done research like this, too. So it's not like rocket science, but it's one of those things where it's
54:08like the offense has to thread the needle of being so efficient in terms of like being so good at like scoring
54:14points and stuff for non pass catching running backs to bring like this crazy surplus value.
54:19Right. And instead, this season, we've actually seen him get a little bit involved in the past game.
54:24They kept him on the field a lot for all the routes, which makes sense when you look at like what they have behind him.
54:31Last year, they at least had Amir Abdullah in some ways so they could supplement him sometimes.
54:36But this year, they've they've truly left the roster like barren behind him.
54:40My fate on him was a lot to do with his ankle, too.
54:44Like he has every single season. He has had like a right ankle injury.
54:48And I'm just like waiting for that like workload thing to have have happen.
54:52Yeah. It's not like again, we're like I draft in portfolios.
54:55So it's different than like a person that's doing one draft.
54:58I took Jonathan Taylor and in a lot of situations, too.
55:01But I just took less of him than I took of guys like Chase Brown and Kenneth Walker and and others, which
55:08I think are also like going to be fine in fantasy.
55:11James Cook, another one. But it's very clear, like when you look at the utilization data right now, it's like Jonathan Taylor
55:17is just an absolute smash in fantasy football right now.
55:20You can't like replace the fact that when they get inside the 10, they're going to keep running and they're just going
55:26to hand it off to him a bunch of times.
55:29And yeah, he's just going to get all of this touchdown equity.
55:33And he's also doing the pass catching stuff right now, too.
55:36Yeah. I mean, I had a soft fade on him, too, from I had him at like the the reason for mine
55:42in the draft guide and such is because I like James Cook more.
55:46That was the bottom line. I just had James Cook rank like like most rankings had Taylor over Cook and I had Cook over Taylor.
55:53So I was like, hey, this is a situation where it's in the first round.
55:58So I'll call it out. And yeah, I mean, his usage has been phenomenal to start the year.
56:03Like you said, he's getting a lot more of that receiving stuff than than I definitely anticipated him seeing.
56:08I don't know if it's going to maintain to this degree necessarily, but.
56:12Yeah, I mean, the Colts splits and his splits.
56:15Rich Rebar, Rich Rebar brought it up on one of the episodes that I did with him on players to avoid where
56:21Rich talked about how Jonathan Taylor is the most sensitive to game script than any other running back in football, where if
56:27in Colts wins, he's dominant and Colts losses. He's, you know, a 12 PPR point per game type player.
56:33And, you know, in the first round, that's scary.
56:35That's a scary proposition. So far, it's been fine.
56:38So far, it's been working out. But I think the back end of that first round in general is just looking really
56:44good because a lot of those running backs are are just in really good speed.
56:49You know, obviously Kenneth Walker smashing right now, rest of season.
56:52I still have Kenneth Walker ranked ahead of Jonathan Taylor.
56:55So if you ended up, you know, going Kenneth Walker, you're still fine.
56:58And like you said, Chase Brown, I think it's still like he's going to be better than what he's been to start the season.
57:05More than likely, he's been fine to start the season.
57:08But I still think there's more to come, you know, with someone like Chase Brown.
57:13But yeah, I think it's a really good one to call out.
57:16Was there anyone that you were high on versus the market?
57:19And it's kind of been off to a rocky start.
57:22You know, I just threw myself out there with the Luther Burden take so that, you know, people don't get angry at
57:29me when they listen to the podcast back. But is there is there anyone that you were high on that you're a little bit nervous about right now?
57:37Yeah. I mean, Harold Fannin is one of those guys.
57:40I was pretty high on him. I think I had him ranked like so what I try to do is like I
57:46do an ADP adjusted rank and then I do a regular rank where I'm like if I was truly ranking these players
57:52without like ADP being a factor, this is where I'd put them.
57:56And my without ADP being a factor rank for Harold Fannin was like 75th or something like pretty high on him.
58:02And I like I kind of anticipated that beginning of the season would be a little bit rocky in general, knowing that they have a new offensive line.
58:10So there's like, you know, a potential for that offensive line to just not be able to give any time for protection
58:16that he would have to potentially help block to which would take his route share down a little bit.
58:22And that like if Watson was playing quarterback, what I had read during the offseason was that they would probably go with
58:28a more like run heavy approach because they just don't really trust him too much to get the ball like downfield and all sorts of stuff.
58:36And they would open it up more with a guy like Shador.
58:39Not that Shador is great, but like he's he was technically a more accurate type of quarterback coming out of college.
58:45Yeah, better distributor. Yeah, so that's one that's like super scary to me because like, you know, week one, we basically saw nothing out of him.
58:53Week two, we saw a little bit more progress.
58:55Like I think he had five targets for reception, something like that.
58:59But in general, that team is going to be really bad.
59:02And I know that they won this past game and everything.
59:05But but like watching watching week one of the Browns was truly like something where you just where the coaches come back
59:11to the film room and they say, we're burning this one.
59:15Like we don't we don't want this anymore. Yeah.
59:17And, you know, I good thing that they won week two.
59:20But I think that that actually sets up for Deshaun Watson to have a little bit of longer leash.
59:26And I don't get to see what happens with Shador.
59:29And my thesis behind all of it was like we saw Harold Fannin last year with Shador.
59:34He got 20 points in a bunch of different games at the end of the season.
59:38And I figured like he would just play in this like weird PPR scam role.
59:43And I didn't think like, you know, Harold Fannin superpower is that he is a crazy yak monster.
59:48Like he can break tackles left and right. He's not super fast, but he can he can break tackles left and right.
59:54And I felt like that wrote that role was insulated from the offensive situation because all it really takes is for him
60:01to to to just like release off the line of scrimmage into the flat.
60:05And it's like, all right, we're going to pass this like one yard pass to him and let him like cook.
60:11And so far hasn't really transpired so much. And I I think I underrated like what the offensive system changes.
60:16And like, yeah, Sean Watson and the offensive line, all sorts of stuff may have happened.
60:21But I'm I'm still like I'm going to hold on to it a little bit longer before I like fully give up on him.
60:28Yeah, you should do that for every take. I think right now, right?
60:32Like it's been two games. I don't think that we can just definitively say unless it's Marvin Harrison Jr., you know, definitively say I was out on head.
60:40Yeah, I was just lower on the entire Arizona off like literally all of them.
60:44So I was wrong so far with like the Trey McBride stuff, too.
60:48I actually think like Michael Wilson's kind of an interesting buy if you want to just throw the dart and such, because
60:54to me, there's and I've been saying this on a lot of shows this week.
60:59There's almost no way that Trey McBride continues this per route run target rate that he's seeing right now.
61:04It's like 40 percent per route run when, you know, the thesis for me with McBride, which is probably my answer for
61:10this or for the other one, I guess the guy that I was low on that I'm a little bit nervous about.
61:17You know, my thesis with McBride was that he ran 100 more routes than any other tight end since 2016, at least 2016.
61:23And obviously the way that you combat that is that you get more volume per route run, which is exact.
61:29He's seeing a 60 percent increase in targets per route run right now.
61:33You know, like I certainly didn't project that. So anyone who's like, why would you fade Trey McBride?
61:38I'm like, well, did you see the 60 percent increase?
61:41Because the the regression from a routes from a raw route volume standpoint has happened.
61:45Like we're not seeing nearly the same kind of route volume that that we saw last year from Arizona.
61:51And so I don't really feel bad about that.
61:53It's just, hey, so far in two games, which is a very small sample, he's been targeted at a really high rate.
62:00And so that's why I'm like, OK, this is probably not going to sustain.
62:04Marvin Harrison Jr. has looked like garbage. I was a harder fade, probably a Michael Wilson than I was Marvin Harrison.
62:10But I mean, it's whatever. It's a middle round pick.
62:13I'm not like that upset about he hasn't done anything either.
62:16I have an opportunity now to get in on Michael Wilson when I didn't get in on him enough.
62:21And I think that's this is probably the time to do something like that just based on how they've been deploying that off.
62:28Yeah. And my latest receiver score article where I covered like every single receiver that that's possibly valuable in fantasy.
62:34I have Michael Wilson as a buy, not a strong buy, but a buy.
62:38I guess a wide receiver three to four level type of player is he's running a lot of routes that are actually pretty valuable.
62:45Like when they talked about that Devante versus Puka type of stuff.
62:48The hard part was like understanding that the Rams when they did that one, they have Matthew Stafford, too.
62:54They didn't have Trey McBride. So like, how do you play that as a factor into all of this?
62:59But for the most part, Michael Wilson is kind of playing like this, like, all right, I'm doing some underneath stuff.
63:05They're using me in motion, like all sorts of stuff like that that are that are more conducive to like fantasy points.
63:12So that's why I like the model likes him and thinks basically thinks Marvin Harrison is someone to drop.
63:17Yeah, that's all. That's that's where I was at this week.
63:20I was like, you know what? If you're in like a 12 team deep league or something like that, and you just
63:27want to see if what happens if Trey McBride's not hyper targeted or you just want one more matchup or something.
63:33Wait it out. But yeah, I mean, it's it's it's bad for Marvin Harrison Jr.
63:37It's it's I don't even want to say it's only him.
63:40I want to keep the door open for like if he gets a change of scenery or something like that.
63:46But it goes back to what you were saying earlier from a deployment perspective, right?
63:50Like he's just running. He's not seeing a lot of first read or he's he's not the first read on a lot
63:57of these these targets and drop backs. And then on top of that, it's just a lot of like, as Harmon would say, sacrificial X type stuff.
64:05And that is very bad for fantasy football. Exactly.
64:07And he's he's like never in motion, like they're not doing anything to help him at all.
64:12Like he is getting quite literally like the whatever the negative of game genie would be.
64:17He's getting that like on on all Madden. He's playing on all Madden.
64:21That's what it is. Yeah. And look, I mean, like we can sit here and say, oh, man, this offense isn't helping him.
64:27The coaching staffs on helping him. And I'm like, at some point, you got to just say, you know, you can't just
64:34keep blaming the coaching staff for for that player.
64:36I think there's some players where if the peripherals are really strong and you see like I I felt that way about
64:42like Josh Downs entering the season where I'm like, he's actually been really good even when lined up out wide.
64:48Like he's he's he's shown something right. Like there's something there.
64:51So if we do get that uptick and routes run and route share, we should see more production from a player like down.
64:58So I bought into that, whereas with Marvin Harrison Jr., it's like, what are we what are we really latching on to here?
65:05You know, there's I will say there's some people who are like, oh, he's so he's been so, so bad.
65:11And he's I don't think he's been so, so bad like like he's been fine, but it's just the expectations were so high.
65:17So we naturally will say that he's been so, so bad.
65:20But I think he's been so, so bad in 2026.
65:23I think he's been really, really bad to start the season.
65:26All right. Just a couple more questions before I let you go.
65:30So I want you to give me a buy candidate, sell candidate moving forward.
65:34Sell candidate, Rashid Rice. Yeah, you're just out. You just just sell low right now.
65:38Well, I feel like so. People might just look at the box score and say, like, hey, you got 80 yards.
65:44Like things are back to normal. There's priors, though.
65:47But the model just really doesn't like him. Like he is not being deployed similarly year over year.
65:52His route depth is further down the field, which in theory he had the opportunity to to get like more depth to
65:58his route, like do stuff further down the field because he was doing so much like very short stuff.
66:04But that's not his game. Like he is not shown that he is able to separate from cornerbacks and safeties and linebackers
66:10very well when he works further down the field.
66:13So it's kind of interesting. My my stuff tells me like his implied target rate on a targets per route run basis
66:19is like 12 percent that it would expect for him for what he's done so far, like what his deployment has been.
66:26Not what it projects for rest of season. So, like, to me, that's like, man, I want out of the Rishi Rice
66:32business ASAP because we've seen it and a lot of people talk about it on Twitter, too.
66:37But like they are using Kenneth Walker to the nth degree.
66:40OK, and so they've they've established the run and they have less of a need to do these like five yard passes.
66:46And you just saw a game where my homes threw for over 300 yards and it basically took like a last drive
66:53or two, like 30 something yard gain for Rishi Rice to to hit that 80 yard play.
66:58And it's just like we're just I think we're we're kind of like, you know, if people are still feeling like he's
67:04wide receiver to worthy in terms of like value, I would do that trade in our like give me Drake London.
67:10If someone's off the Drake London bandwagon, I would rather have Drake London than Rishi Rice.
67:15I think that that he has immense more upside and opportunity with Penix at the helm than anybody else.
67:20My rest of season rankings right now have Rishi Rice is like a high end wide receiver three or something like that.
67:27Like it's it's it's pretty dire based on versus where you would have drafted him at.
67:31I think Rishi Rice is such a good example of the fragility of talent at wide receiver in particular, right?
67:37Where like if it's just a role that's been kind of creating this, there's a possibility that it would just continue and
67:43he could dominate, you know, like like there was that possibility in his range of outcomes, which is why, you know, I
67:50still didn't rank him like, you know, I think I had him at like 15 or 16 or 16.
67:55Or something entering the season. He was going at like 12.
67:58So it was like he was going higher than that.
68:01But this speaks to just the fragility of like the importance of understanding the position and the talent side of things.
68:07And, you know, there's people like, like, again, I'm shouting out Harmon again, but, you know, Harmon, like charting these guys just
68:14being like, hey, this is a role that Rishi Rice has played.
68:17But guess what? He's not like this phenomenal, phenomenal player at the position, which I think a lot of people would understand.
68:24And so just buying into a role is a lot more fragile than buying into a player, you know, and I think
68:30that's what that really comes down to. What about on the reverse side of a buy?
68:34I know that we kind of mentioned Michael Wilson is like a soft buy, but is there anyone that you're like really, really excited about buying right now?
68:43Yeah. Josh Downs is one that I'm very interested in buying with the news on Alec Pierce.
68:47Of course, I think it makes it less easy to buy.
68:51But even before that, the fact that he's getting this like pretty much elite route share and still like functionally doing not
68:57the exact same stuff like he is working a little bit further down the field.
69:01But when I was on with Harmon this offseason, we talked about it.
69:05It was he has the opportunity to work further down the field like that would be a good thing for him because
69:11he was working so short for most of most of his routes that it would be nice for him to do other things.
69:18And so far, they're deploying him that way and they're using him in motion off of play action, all sorts of different stuff.
69:25I just think like he did have to me like a really tough matchup week one that that Raven secondary to me is like pretty, pretty solid.
69:33And then week two, we saw him get targeted a lot more and everything.
69:37But I don't think people are buying him to the level that he should be bought at.
69:42Like people are still going to value him at like wide receiver, like mid wide receiver three like tier.
69:47And I think he's going to ascend to wide receiver two over the next couple of weeks.
69:52So that's one of those things where I'm like, man, I think we need to get in now before that price gets too high.
69:59Because after they play Washington in week four, I'm pointing at the camera.
70:03After they play Washington week four, when he scores like 20 points that week, it's going to be really hard to get him.
70:09No, I'm with you. He was a buy for me on the 15 transaction show this week.
70:14So very much same page there. All right. Last question before I let you go.
70:19Give me a fire take a hot take for week three of this NFL season.
70:23Oh, my God. There's there's too many. No, this is the week where we get Bayshall Tootin all roads lead to Bayshall Tootin.
70:29This is the week where we get the breakout Bayshall Tootin.
70:33All roads, baby. All roads. All roads. We need it.
70:36We need that. There's been a lot, a lot of God, a good coach speak around Basial Tootin.
70:41And I mean, there's been a lot like he looks amazing.
70:44He's looked so good to start the year. I'm very, very much on board with that.
70:49As you know, you're just you're just pandering right now.
70:51You're just you knew that I'd be all about I'd be all about.
70:55I've been on the Tootin bandwagon, too. Like, yeah, I did all the.
70:59So one of the articles I wrote last year was like fixing the Jaguars offense.
71:03And I wrote about how like Travis HN, whatever you want to call him.
71:07He got so lucky last year in terms of how the blocking developed for him.
71:12You go back and watch the film. His yards before contact was insane.
71:15He would get like these lanes where you could drive a truck through them.
71:19Right. And that's how he scored a bunch of like longer like touchdowns, touchdowns and stuff.
71:24And then Tootin, it's like, oh, nope, there's not good blocking.
71:27And like he would still do like successful things with it.
71:30But now we're getting to see him in like more of a focal role.
71:34And I think the coaching staff is realizing like this guy's good.
71:38Like we should just be using him more substantially.
71:41So eventually it's going to happen. And I told people before the season, the way to do this is you need something.
71:47I call him like a like a like an opener.
71:50So, you know, in baseball, they have like the guy that does like the first inning and then they go with their starter.
71:56It's kind of the same thing for week one and week two.
72:00Like and maybe even week three, we'll see. Like you needed somebody that you could functionally put in at RB2 instead of Tootin.
72:07And Chuba was like the guy that I wanted for that because I was like, I'm pretty sure early season, like he's
72:13going to do a lot of stuff. And then then you have the opportunity for Tootin to show what he's doing and then eventually take over the backfield.
72:21Exactly. That's how you need to like pair players together.
72:24Every year, man, every single year when I talk about ambiguous backfields, I have to preach patience with it because generally speaking,
72:30these guys that do emerge because it's not even going to happen more frequently.
72:34You're just going to see a split backfield all season.
72:37But of the guys who emerge, it doesn't happen week one necessarily.
72:41You know, it's a it's a slow burn. You know, you're you're just kind of waiting and you you are get you're
72:47gathering data as the season goes on and get data as in what you're watching and also what you're seeing, you know,
72:53from just a data pure numbers perspective. But you're gathering that data and you're saying, oh, wow, this guy is clearly better than this other guy.
73:01And so we should start to put our chips more on that player, you know, as we as we move forward, you know, in the season.
73:08And I think that we're there with Bashaw Tootin at this point where he's just played really, really well.
73:14The coaching staff is seemingly I mean, they talked about today getting more involved as a pass catcher, you know, and it needs to happen, in my opinion.
73:22I want it to happen very much so, as most people know who have listened to this show, because I've been, you
73:28know, joking around about the the all roads leading to Bashaw Tootin thing.
73:32But that wasn't just based on just like fun vibes or anything like that, like the prospect model, the zap model, love Tootin.
73:39I liked him last year. It was a wrong call last year in liking him.
73:43But I do think that this year it really could happen just based on the way that he's performed in week one and week two.
73:50It is going to happen and it's going to happen this week.
73:54That's the that's the hot take. That's right. That's right.
73:57That's right. How could I forget? How could I forget?
74:00Zane, this is awesome, man. Let everyone know where they can find you and all the good stuff you're going to be doing this season.
74:07Yeah, you guys can find me on Twitter at Danani Zane.
74:10Most of my written content is on fantasylife.com right now.
74:13I have an article on receiver score matchups and injury and coach speak kind of news that that I output every week.
74:19Then I have my own YouTube show on the cut up show where I kind of go over all the utilization trends,
74:26prop bets, different things that I'm thinking through through the week.
74:29Awesome. Really appreciate the time, man. As always, everyone, make sure you check out lateround.com.
74:33Become a member if you'd like at the very least.
74:36There's a free newsletter that you can sign up for.
74:39We're sending out multiple newsletters a week. The data dump, 15 transactions.
74:42Brandon Gadula's got a great matchup column that he's doing now in the newsletter.
74:46David Kitchen has the wrap up. So check that out, lateround.com.
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