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TE Rankings, Sleepers, and Tiers. Plus, the Hot QB Rankings, No. 13-16.

STACKED extracted the fantasy-relevant player signal from this podcast and kept the full transcript here for context.

1 hr 40 min
Duration
Estimated from transcript
Jul 13, 2026
Published
Mon, July 13, 2026
18
Player insights
18
Players mentioned
Topics
AJ BarnerBrenton StrangeBrock BowersColby ParkinsonColston LovelandDalton SchultzGeorge KittleHunter HenryJake FergusonJawuan JohnsonKenyon SadiqKyle PittsMark AndrewsMichael Mayer
Player analysis

Player insights

18

AJ Barner

NegativeSleeper60:15

The source identifies Barner as a potential top-six tight end sleeper for the Seahawks. He had 500 yards and six touchdowns last year, plus 50 yards and a touchdown in the Super Bowl. He played 77% of snaps and was 12th in routes run per drop back, more than expected. The new offensive coordinator Brian Fleury was the tight ends coach on the 49ers for four years with George Kittle, suggesting the Seahawks may feature the tight end more. Barner is a good blocker and can be on the field a lot, and he's been productive in the red zone. The main concern is if Arroyo breaks out and gets more usage, but Barner's blocking ability and dual-threat profile should keep him on the field.

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Brenton Strange

NegativeDepth Chart58:08

Strange had a good season for the Jaguars but is now buried in the depth chart, limiting his fantasy upside going forward.

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Brock Bowers

PositiveProjection7:00

Elite tier-one tight end ranked as a top-25 overall player. Rookie year production of 112 catches and 1,100 yards set the tight end rookie catch record by 20 catches and ranks second all-time for any rookie position (behind only Puka Nacua). Now in Clint Kubiak's Raiders offense with Kirk Cousins at quarterback—a significant upgrade from Gardner Minshew and Aiden O'Connell. Kubiak has called him a 'football robot from heaven' and will make Bowers the focal point of the passing game. Projected to be drafted in the middle of the second round or higher, positioning him as a potential first-round tight end. Demonstrated elite receiving ability by burning first-team All-Pro cornerback Trent McDuffie in his rookie year.

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Colby Parkinson

PositiveProjection58:53

The source projects Parkinson will repeat his nine-touchdown performance from last year, dismissing regression concerns. He's expected to be a top-tier red zone target for the Rams alongside Terrence Ferguson as the third and fourth receivers on the team. Both are talented and expected to have really good years, though there's uncertainty about weekly lineup decisions. They're available late in drafts.

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Colston Loveland

NegativeProjection23:00

Ranked 50th among tight ends in the first half of the season (17 total points in 8 games) due to a shoulder injury that caused him to miss OTAs, minicamp, and combine workouts. The source argues that 55% of Loveland's fantasy points came against the three worst defenses (Bengals, 49ers, Lions), suggesting his late-season surge may not be repeatable. However, was used more vertically downfield as a true number-one receiver in the second half of the season, running legitimate receiver routes rather than dump-off/run-after-catch plays, and was the second-best tight end from week nine onward. Could be Caleb Williams' favorite target under Ben Johnson's offense, suggesting ceiling upside with bigger games (e.g., 130-yard performances). Uncertainty exists around how the Bears' offense will look with Roma Dunze, Luther Burden, and Loveland all healthy, and Caleb Williams' volatility adds risk.

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Dalton Schultz

PositiveValue60:40

Floor play in the secondary tight end tier with over 100 targets last year for the Texans. Schultz will likely be available late in drafts or on waivers and offers reliable production (approximately seven points per game) at pick 180 or later, making him a solid value for consistent weekly output.

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George Kittle

NegativeInjury57:21

The source wants to monitor Kittle's rehab and training camp performance before committing to him in drafts; they need to see him running on the field to assess his readiness.

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Hunter Henry

PositiveBust6:06

Mid-round tight end sleeper strategy that consistently fails to deliver. The source notes a recurring pattern of targeting Henry in round eight expecting a breakout, but tight ends outside the elite tier typically average only eight fantasy points per game regardless of draft timing, making Henry an unreliable value play.

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Jake Ferguson

NegativeRole57:29

The source mentions Ferguson as part of the tier discussion but does not elaborate on his role or outlook; he is noted as part of the next tier after the elite tight ends.

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Jawuan Johnson

NegativeRole58:03

Johnson is listed as a tight end option for the Saints in the third tier of tight ends being discussed, but no specific analysis or projection is provided.

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Kenyon Sadiq

NegativeRole58:44

Sadiq is listed as a first-round pick out of Oregon for the Jets in the secondary tier of tight ends but receives no specific analysis or projection.

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Kyle Pitts

NegativeProjection6:40

Last year's tight end six ranked player scored only 1.5 points per game more than tight end 17 (Dalton Schultz), illustrating the minimal scoring differential between mid-tier and lower-tier tight ends and the limited value of precise ranking distinctions outside the elite tier.

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Mark Andrews

PositiveValue56:05

The source notes Andrews is "so cheap" in draft ADP relative to his historical production; he's being drafted around Kyle Pitts but with players like Jackson Dart, Blake Corum, Dak Prescott, Ramondre Stevenson, Chris Godwin, Jordan Love, and Wondell Robinson going around him. The source frames this as a logical smart draft pick because Andrews has proven he can be a top-three tight end before, and with Lamar Jackson potentially healthy again and the Ravens having cleared out competing tight ends (Isaiah Likely, Charlie Kohler, Patrick Ricard), there's upside if the offense features him. The source suggests that if one of these undervalued tight ends ends up being a top-three option, it will be Andrews because he's done that before.

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Michael Mayer

NegativeRole14:00

Raiders tight end who will serve as the inline tight end in Clint Kubiak's offense, with Brock Bowers positioned to handle a more versatile role. This complementary split suggests Mayer will handle traditional blocking and short-yardage situations while Bowers operates as the primary receiving threat.

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Terrance Ferguson

PositiveProjection58:53

The source projects Ferguson will improve and play significant snaps alongside Colby Parkinson as the third and fourth receivers for the Rams. Both are talented and expected to have really good years, though weekly lineup decisions will be uncertain. Ferguson is available late in drafts.

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Trey McBride

NegativeProjection7:00

Elite tier-one tight end who dominated last year with nearly 100 more points than the next closest tight end in half-PPR, winning the 'crutch Ruppel crown' at the position. However, faces significant headwinds in 2025: new offensive coordinator Michael Fleur (from Rams) will shift from Cardinals' league-leading 38 passes per game to a more balanced 57% pass-rate approach similar to the Rams; Cardinals drafted running back Jeremiah Love in round three signaling a run-first philosophy; quarterback uncertainty with Jacoby Brissett in contract dispute and potential for Carson Beck to play in fantasy playoffs, creating risk of poor quarterback play during championship weeks. McBride's touchdown production with Kyler Murray was poor (7 TDs in 39 games), though he performed much better with Brissett (10 TDs in 12 games). Overall environment expected to change dramatically from last year's pass-heavy setup.

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Tucker Kraft

NegativeProjection31:04

Tucker Craft was the number-two tight end in fantasy before tearing his ACL in week nine, having played in eight games. He ranked first in yards per touch, first in EPA per target, and first in yards after the catch—comparable to elite receivers like Alec Pierce, Christian Watson, and Jamison Williams. If he had continued at his pace, he would have accumulated approximately 1,000 yards and 8 touchdowns, ranking him in tier one alongside Brock Bowers and Trey McBride. Craft reports excellent recovery progress with great conditioning and quads, minimal swelling, and no weird pains; he hit 21.9 miles per hour in the offseason (comparable to Brandon Aiyuk's 22 mph) and plans to start week one with no pitch count. With Dobbs and Wicks gone, 130 targets are now available in the Green Bay offense, and the source likes the play caller, quarterback, and volume for Craft. Even with all those other receivers on the roster last year, Green Bay threw to Craft frequently, suggesting his target share will increase significantly in 2025. However, the source expresses concern that Craft's 2024 production was dependent on touchdowns and big plays, with only four catches per game on average, and fears he could regress from 13 projected touchdowns to 5-8 if he loses athleticism or if teammates like Jaden Daniels suffer injuries—a pattern similar to Sam Laporta's rookie-year regression. Craft is currently being drafted around the same area as Brian Thomas and Carnell Tate, which the source views as reasonable value, though tier-three tight ends (seventh through ninth options) are traditionally the worst bet in fantasy.

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Tyler Warren

PositiveUsage21:00

High-volume, floor-oriented play who was fourth in routes run and fourth in touches per game at tight end through the first 10 weeks of the season, averaging 9 PPR points per game with a 21% target rate, 50 catches, 600 yards, and 3 TDs. Will be the centerpiece of the Colts' passing game with Pittman gone and Pierce dealing with a foot injury. Maintained a 20% target rate from week 11 onward despite the Colts' offensive struggles, suggesting his role is stable. Expected to deliver reliable weekly production and will get 'a shitload of volume this year.'

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Full transcript

Episode Transcript

1,436
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0:24Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur.
0:29Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine.
0:36Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today.
0:38Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TremphayaRadio.com. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.
0:44Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.
0:46Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.
0:54If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required.
0:58Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.
1:05Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur.
1:10Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine.
1:16Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today.
1:19Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TremphayaRadio.com. For your fantasy football show, my name is Danny Heifetz, and I'm joined by
1:25Danny Kelly and Craig Horlbeck, and today we are ranking tight ends.
1:28We're putting them in tiers, giving you some sleepers.
1:31But first, we have a quick announcement. We mentioned last week that we had an announcement, and now we can tell you.
1:37Our next live show is coming up next month.
1:40We are going to be in Los Angeles on August 27th, which is a Thursday.
1:44So Thursday, August 27th at the Fonda Theater in Los Angeles, which, Craig, that's Hollywood, baby.
1:48We're official now. It's Hollywood. Right in the middle of Hollywood.
1:52We're going full Hollywood. Thirsty Thursday. We'll be there.
1:54Special guest. Just kidding. Probably not. It'll be just a place.
1:57But it'll be really fun, and you can get tickets soon.
2:00Heifetz, what's the ticket situation again? Let them know.
2:03DK, do you know when tickets go on sale?
2:05I bet you don't. I don't. I'm just here to hang out.
2:09You're just the passenger princess. He just gets in the Uber, and the Uber drives him wherever it takes him.
2:15That's pretty much true. Tickets go on sale this Wednesday, July 15th.
2:18Well, we're recording this July 9th, full disclosure. But you're hearing this next week.
2:22So tickets go on sale July 15th at noon Pacific time.
2:25And we're using Pacific time because it's in the Pacific time zone.
2:28So noon Pacific. And you can get all the details at theringer.com slash events.
2:32So theringer.com slash events. Why you said Pacific time?
2:35Because I want to. Because he just can't help him.
2:38I know I can't. I cannot live with the idea that he bristles.
2:41It bothers me. That's the idea of using Pacific time.
2:44I do. It does. I don't live there. It's annoying.
2:47The show's in LA. You didn't have to say noon PT.
2:50We're saying PT because we'll be on the West Coast.
2:53No, I did. Everyone on the East Coast is like, thank you for the solidarity I represent.
2:58Anyway. Yeah. So theringer.com slash events. Tickets will be out there at noon Pacific on July 15th.
3:03And the show is Thursday, August 27th. All the details are in the episode description.
3:07And again, everything is at theringer.com slash events. So check it out there.
3:11And we do recommend getting the tickets read at noon Pacific if you want to make sure you can go.
3:16So we'll see you there. With that said, we're going to get into tight end rankings.
3:21What's so funny, DK? What's so funny? Your time zone thing is just funny to me.
3:25You have an obsession. I'm sorry. I've been radicalized, but you're calling one.
3:29Saying noon PT is fine. That's normal. But then you haven't qualified while you said PT is fucking weird.
3:34You don't need to do that. I've been radicalized ever since you guys started just calling the first kickoff of the day, the morning games.
3:41It's really radicalized me. That's all I'll say. Again, we've lived on the Pacific time zone our whole life.
3:47Okay. I know. And I live in the East Coast time.
3:50I've lived all 43 of my years over here, pal.
3:53Everything I do for work, I have to convert everything to West Coast time in my head.
3:58And I sometimes, it's just like, okay, I convert it.
4:00And that's fine. But when I say it out loud, I always feel dumb.
4:04So it's fine. That's it. Okay. We can move on.
4:07Yeah, we can. I will say. Tight end rewards.
4:10I enjoy it. We're going to do tight ends, sleepers, tears, fears.
4:13But stick around at the end of the episode.
4:16We will be unveiling the first four of the official hot quarterback rankings of the top 16.
4:21We're doing 16 to 13 today. So that's after the tight end conversation.
4:24The hot is 16 to 13. Also, Craig's Millennial Bangers series continues, correct?
4:28Of course. Hell yeah. So I want to talk about tight ends today.
4:32And I wanted to just a quick note on why we do tears.
4:35Because we're going to go through rankings, but we're really going to talk about them in tiers.
4:40And it's really simple. It's just like when you're doing a draft, rankings are cool and easier for us to make.
4:46But realistically, rankings are kind of a flawed thing when you get into the middle of your draft.
4:51And you're like, well, they have this guy 60th and this other guy 61st.
4:55And it's like, well, we wish we could see your team.
4:58And so the tiers kind of allow you to track supply and demand as you go.
5:03Because if you see there's one guy left in a tight end tier you liked and five guys left in a receiver
5:09tier you like, you should probably take the tight end even if he's two spots below the receiver we ranked.
5:15And so it just helps you. And it just helps.
5:17I think you'll hear us as we go. It helps you figure out how you really feel about people as being able to bucket them.
5:25So it's just honestly the most important exercise that you could do is just tiering people in these positions before your draft.
5:31Do you guys agree? If you could tell people to give one thing that actually required some time and effort before your
5:37draft, I would actually say it's tiering the positions and players.
5:40Yeah, absolutely. Because like as you said, it helps you if one tier, say your receiver tier is almost over and you've
5:46got like eight guys in your running back tier, you definitely want to focus on the receiver there just because you don't
5:53want to fall off into that next tier. So it's just a construct to help you when you're drafting get the best
5:59value for what you see as the players that serve in positions.
6:02I spend so much time thinking about which sleeper tight end to draft every year.
6:06They really are the quagmire of fantasy football. The awkward stepchild.
6:10You don't know who. Every year I'm like, which guy am I going to take in the middle rounds that's going to pop?
6:16And it usually just doesn't matter. And they all end up scoring eight fantasy points per game other than like the top two.
6:23That really is how it goes with tight ends.
6:25I'm always like, I'm going to be the guy who round eight, I'm taking Hunter Henry this year.
6:30He's going to pop. They all just average eight points per game.
6:34The difference between tight ends last year, the difference between tight end six, which was Kyle Pitts and tight end 17, which
6:40was Dalton Schultz is like one and a half points per game.
6:43Totally. And I think this year specifically. So we talked about quarterbacks last episode with the memento tattoos and about how quarterbacks
6:49a little bit deeper now and maybe late round quarterback is back.
6:53Over the last like three or four years, my strategy has kind of been like get one of the elite quarterbacks, wait on tight end.
7:00Because I kind of think you can't get both.
7:02You know, you really want to fill up on running backs and wide receivers in your first like four rounds.
7:08So I think getting like a Josh Allen and a Brock Bowers is hard to do while filling out the rest of your roster.
7:15But I think this year, like I said, usually I would rather get that elite quarterback and wait on tight end.
7:21This year, I think I'm going to switch that.
7:23I actually think getting Brock Bowers or Trey McBride in the first three rounds and then waiting on quarterback is going to
7:30be my move heading into this year. Because I do think tight end is very young.
7:34I think it's very hard to predict this year.
7:37I'm not in. I think outside of Bowers and McBride, you don't really know.
7:41So I and with quarterback, I think you can go 12, 13, 14 deep and feel pretty confident.
7:46So I think this year, do you agree that early tight end and late quarterback is a strategy this year you like?
7:52Probably. I have mixed emotions because I love Brock Bowers.
7:55I'm a little scared of how much I love Brock Bowers.
7:58I feel like if he falls to me, I want Brock Bowers.
8:01But then if he doesn't, I love Trey McBride, but I'm scared of taking a Cardinals player that I think Cardinals would
8:08be the worst team in the NFL. And I'm really hesitant of the middle tight ends.
8:12I kind of feel like if I don't get Brock Bowers, I actually am pretty.
8:16I'm actually pretty content to wait till the end for a tight end.
8:20And because of what DK just said. Because it's flat.
8:23Yeah. Scott Barrett does a great job. Fantasy Points is, I mean, it's a website called Fantasy Points, but they also write about Fantasy Points.
8:30But Scott Barrett does this great distribution of tight ends.
8:33And sometimes we're guilty of this, of using shorthand for he was the ninth best tight end.
8:38But that doesn't matter. What matters is how many points they score for you.
8:42And if they were on a graph, you couldn't distinguish the ninth tight end from the 26th tight end very well.
8:48It's like you kind of throw in a dart.
8:50And even that's an average, assuming you played them in some random spike week they had in week four.
8:55And if you didn't, then the whole thing's a mess anyway.
8:59So I don't think there's a huge gap. So I think to create your point, Craig, if you don't get an elite one, I'm okay waiting.
9:06And I'm curious where you guys feel that cutoff is because we can go through it.
9:10But that's the part that I'm really interested in.
9:13When is the point where you're like, I don't even care anymore.
9:16There's no difference to me between these guys and the guys who can get eight tight ends later.
9:22Well, they could be even wider this year to have.
9:24It's because everybody's sort of following this trend where you have more tight ends on the field.
9:29And tight ends are a bigger part of your offense.
9:32Yeah. So you could even have more. Like, it's just playing whack-a-ball every week, I feel like.
9:37It's why I think Bowers and McBride, I think I'm going to try to get one of those guys this year.
9:43And I'll wait. And I'll take Brock Purdy or Justin Herbert or something.
9:46And it is the defining. It's probably the defining X's and O's real-life football strategy story.
9:51Entering this season, too. The two tight ends. Yeah.
9:54Two tight ends. Even three tight ends. You know, without going too deep into it, basically, it was the most two tight
10:00end sets we've had in decades and decades. And multiple tight end sets are just completely back.
10:05And ironically, it was Sean McVay who really started this last year because Sean McVay sent multiple tight ends off the field.
10:11Like, when Sean McVay first started with the Rams, it was all three receiver sets.
10:15Everything looks the same. Right. And in a full way, basically, they came back to having more tight ends around the field.
10:21But it almost makes it harder to figure out who to play sometimes.
10:25It's kind of like whack-a-mole. So, yeah. It is funny.
10:28That is a funny point. Heifetz McVay, basically, well, he wasn't the only one, but he was a big part.
10:33They did three receiver sets almost all the time.
10:36That was like all they did. It was 98% of the time in 2017.
10:40And they were in part, you know, part of the reason that teams started shifting to smaller defenses.
10:45You get more fast linebackers. You get more safeties on the field to combat these three receiver sets.
10:50And then he's like, I actually got you a switch.
10:53I'm going to go back to doing three tight ends.
10:56I'm going to run it down your throat. All this stuff.
10:59Basically, we're going to counter all your small defenses.
11:01You stay ahead of the curve. You set the trend and then you zag against it.
11:06Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of, it's Belichickian. So, I don't know why, but that bothered me.
11:11Belichickian. Belichick. Belichickian. It didn't sound right. It is spelled Belichick.
11:14Belichick. Do you think that it was pronounced that way?
11:16And then they just stopped saying it that way because it's like football.
11:20They can't say Belichick. I bet it is Belichick.
11:23Yeah. Is that Jordan Hudson? She's the Belichick? Jordan and Belichick.
11:26Jordan Belichick. She's Belichick. Jordan Belichick. That's going to be her name?
11:29I don't know. Are they going to get married?
11:32That's your name? Let's get to the tight end tiers.
11:35And again, the way this loosely works is a tier is, for better or worse, kind of, you could move them around
11:41in any order and you wouldn't be, it wouldn't be crazy.
11:44But outside the tiers, it'd be a little crazier.
11:47So tier one, it's a good example of this, which is we have Brock Bowers first for the Raiders and then Trey McBride for the Cardinals second.
11:54We both have them as like top 25 players.
11:57You can, you know, we'll see exactly where we end up slotting them as the season goes.
12:02But DK, I've been very high on Brock Bowers.
12:04I'm a little worried. I'm too high on Brock Bowers.
12:07But how do you feel about Bowers this year?
12:09Do you think he's like definitively the number one Raiders tight end?
12:13Well, I mean, I think NFL tight end. I don't know if definitively, because it is funny looking back at what McBride did, Trey McBride did last year.
12:21It was absolutely absurd. The numbers that he put up.
12:24I just think we're kind of projecting that he's not going to maybe be able to hit quite those highs this next
12:30year with a new offense, new offensive coordinator, potentially more running from that offense, all that stuff.
12:35So I think Bowers to start with Clint Kubiak calling him a football robot from heaven feels good.
12:40Feels like a good right. Like a first thing that you really want the head coach to say when he's coming in and installing a new offense.
12:47He's a football robot from heaven. Like imagine if Bill Simmons was like, DK is a podcasting robot from heaven.
12:53I feel pretty good about myself. I feel like I'll be on a lot of pods if that's the case.
12:59CR is kind of a podcast. Chris Ryan is the podcast robot.
13:02Or Van, maybe. You know, he's just really versatile.
13:05But yeah, so I think I am both simultaneously very excited about Brock Bowers and also just a little wary about calling
13:11him the new JSN and the Kubiak. Like Kubiak's new JSN is kind of like the bull case for.
13:16Who's saying that? Heifetz, you've said it a few times.
13:19It is fun to think about. Said it the last few episodes.
13:22Realistically, like he's not. He's a tight end. He's not a receiver.
13:26He's not going to be used in the same way that JSN is used.
13:30JSN ran the vast majority of his routes from the outside last year.
13:34He only ran 17% of his routes from the slot last year.
13:37Bowers is at almost 60% last year. It's just a different proposition.
13:40That being said, I do think he can be a focal point in this offense, especially if you look at the Raiders receivers.
13:47Like the Raiders receivers, you just don't have anyone with any star power.
13:51No one's going to be, you know, designing their defensive structure around.
13:54Any of these receivers week in and week out.
13:56It's going to be, how do we stop Bowers?
13:59And I think Kubiak is smart enough to know Bowers is their top playmaker and he's going to make a big part of the offense.
14:06Move the guy around. You're going to have Michael Mayer be sort of the inline tight end and then Bowers can do a little bit of everything.
14:14But calling him the JSN of the offense is, I think, a little misleading because Bowers is not being utilized on deep
14:20routes nearly as much or probably can't be. And so it's a little bit different.
14:24But all that being said, I'm still really excited about Bowers.
14:27I'm glad you're checking me on this, DK, because I think you're right that like I probably have been saying that as a shorthand too much.
14:35I don't mean that Brock Bowers will literally be used as Jackson Smith and Jigba.
14:39Like he's not the same player. You're right. He won't be the same depths of routes and all that stuff.
14:45What I mean is that Clint Kubiak will make the point of the Raiders passing game to get the football to Brock Bowers.
14:51It would be in a different mechanism. But the point of the Seahawks passing game was basically to get the ball to Jackson Smith and Jigba.
14:58And that's what I'm trying to say is that the reason I like Brock Bowers so much is I really do think
15:05the point of half of the Raiders dropbacks will be just get Brock the football.
15:09God, I trust him to do that. It will look differently, but I think it will also be.
15:14I mean, Brock Bowers is rookie year. I will never forget him just burning Trent McDuffie as straight up, not from in
15:20line as a receiver outlet wide burning Trent McDuffie was a first team all pro cornerback who just got traded for first
15:27round pick to the Rams just as a tight end.
15:29That's kind of what we always talk about, but never really happens.
15:33I think he's a great player. He'll never forget that.
15:36He'll never forget that. Bowers? I'll be on my death back talking about it.
15:40Bowers had 153 targets as a rookie. Dude, I think I hear you guys about being hesitant.
15:44Don't overthink this. His rookie year, Brock Bowers set the tight ends catch record by like 20 catches.
15:49He had his rookie year. This was just two years ago.
15:53112 catches, 1,100 yards as a fucking rookie tight end.
15:55On the Raiders, he was catching passes from Gardner Minshew and Aiden O'Connell.
15:59That was the situation two years ago, and he had 112 catches, 1,100 yards and five touchdowns.
16:04Saying Brock Bowers had the most catches ever as a rookie for a tight end is underselling it because he had the
16:10second most catches for any, but for any rookie ever, including receivers, the only rookie who's had more catches than Brock Bowers in their rookie year is Pukitikua.
16:18Like of all players. We have Clint Kubiak. We have what we feel like is a very dependable Kirk Cousins, maybe Mendoza
16:24eventually, which I think we have to know that is a few notches above what the Raiders have been dealing with the past two seasons.
16:31Like this is rock solid. Just take him. Don't think about it.
16:35So just do it. I agree. I feel that way strongly.
16:38My fear is Trey. So Trey McBride, who I mean, won the crutch Ruppel crown basically at tight end last year, him
16:44as targets and catches and yards and touchdowns. He was the number one.
16:48He had almost a hundred more points than the next closest tight end last year in half PBR.
16:53That's the fear. He had almost a hundred more points.
16:56There was a lot of tight end injuries last year, though, to be clear.
17:00I think that was part of it. He played 17 games.
17:03Including Brock Bowers. Yeah. Heifetz, continue. I don't know if you want to get into McBride, but the numbers last year are
17:09pretty crazy, and it's hard to see him kind of recreating that, especially in a new offense.
17:14I think the biggest thing is last year, the Cardinals led the NFL in pass rate.
17:18They had 38 passes a game. And Michael Fleur comes from Arizona or comes to Arizona from L.A.
17:23And he was with the Rams with Matt Stafford.
17:26The Rams had a 57% pass rate. So, you know, that's like way that's something like 20 something in the league.
17:32It's a much more balanced type offense. I think philosophically, they're going to try to run the ball.
17:37They drafted a running back with a third pick.
17:40So, I just think the environment is going to change dramatically for McBride, which sucks.
17:44They also are in a contract thing with Jacoby Brissett.
17:47He wants more money. And he's like, I was the starter.
17:50You need to pay me. And they're like, well, you went 1-11, so we don't want to.
17:55And we'll see how that goes. If Carson Beck is quarterback, it's going to be a depressing.
17:59Or it's Gardner Minshew, a knee injury. Or, yeah, Carson Beck.
18:03I think Carson Beck will be playing down the stretch.
18:05That's the other issue with Trey McBride, where it's like if Fernando Mendoza is playing, I trust Fernando Mendoza, quarterback for the
18:12Raiders in December, or Kirk Cousins more than I trust the Cardinals maybe putting in Carson Beck, which maybe there's a chance that Trey McBride is really good.
18:20And then you're in your fantasy playoffs and Carson Beck is throwing to Trey McBride because the Cardinals are tanking and want to see how Carson Beck does.
18:27And that would also suck, which I think that's a perfectly fine tiebreaker.
18:31But these are the top two tight ends. And, you know, that's...
18:35I don't really... It's kind of where we slot them among skill players.
18:38There's not really a conversation about that. It's just where do you take them?
18:42I think you could go either way. I think you'd probably kick yourself more if the Cardinals are terrible and Trey McBride
18:48is struggling and you're watching Brock Bowers catch passes from Kirk Cousins in the Kubiak offense.
18:53And you're like, why didn't I just do that?
18:56Yeah. And the Cardinals, I do agree. They brought in Isaac Sayumolo, the guard.
18:59They drafted a guard. They drafted Jeremiah Love. They brought in Tyler Algier.
19:03Like, this team is, I feel like, signaling that they want to run the ball more and be more balanced.
19:09Also, their schedule's nuts. The first, like, eight games...
19:11I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It just could be a real mess on that team.
19:16But sometimes you have to look through that and it's not like the Cardinals have been great the last three seasons and Trey McBride's been pretty damn good.
19:24But... And he's way better with Brissette than he was with Kyler Murray, which is from a touchdown perspective.
19:29He had seven touchdowns in 39 games with Kyler Murray and he had 10 in 12 games.
19:34With Jacoby Brissette. So, as we get closer to this season, we'll figure out where exactly we put these guys.
19:39But I feel like Brock Bowers is going to be the middle of the second round, right?
19:44And it's going to be a question of, like, do you take...
19:48If not, higher. Brock Bowers or, you know, Saquon, Nico Collins, Omerion Hampton, these guys, Ashton Jenty.
19:52Like, you know, I think that's the question. Yeah, it's like, if you want to draft a pass catcher, which one...
19:58Where do you draw the line on wide receivers before you take Brock Bowers?
20:02I just think the same... Yeah. Would you take him over Justin Jefferson or CeeDee Lamb or Amonara?
20:07I mean, you're talking about the Kyler Murray not being able to throw touchdown passes thing.
20:12And I'm like, oh, God, maybe I do not want Justin Jefferson and I do want Brock Bowers.
20:17That was my first thought. I was like, oh, man, is that going to carry over?
20:22Don't love that. I think... You're worried about Justin Jefferson with Kyler?
20:25No, not really. But, like, just you saying that in connection with how high do you take Bowers.
20:30I'm like, man, maybe I want Bowers. I think it makes sense that after that tier of guys like Puka, Amonara, CeeDee,
20:36and Justin Jefferson, I think right after that and right before, like, Nico Collins, Drake London, Rasheed Rice, I think Brock Bowers, that's the right spot for him.
20:44Yeah. That's fine. Yeah, that works for me. All right.
20:47The next tier here, we have Tyler Warren for the Colts.
20:50We have Colston Loveland for the Bears. And then we have Tucker Craft for the Packers.
20:55First of all, DK, do you agree with this, that Tyler Warren should be ranked over Colston Loveland?
21:00Hmm. That's... I mean, it's tough. That's a really hard one, I think.
21:03They're so close in my mind. I think Colston Loveland...
21:06It's funny because they had an inverse... They had inverse seasons as rookies, basically.
21:10Tyler Warren started out the gate. It was awesome.
21:13He was averaging nine points a game in the first 10 weeks.
21:16The Colts were on fire. He had a 21% target rate in that stretch.
21:20He had 50 catches for 600 yards and three touchdowns through 10 games.
21:24Sal took him in the ringer league in, like, the sixth round.
21:27A rookie tight end with, like, 60th overall. We were like, you're an idiot.
21:31And then Sal immediately looked like a genius. Yeah.
21:34And, I mean, so he was doing awesome to start the year.
21:37And then things fell apart for the Colts. It wasn't his fault, necessarily, which I think is what makes me bullish on
21:43him going forward, is if they can kind of right the ship offensively.
21:47But because he had a 20% target rate in the second...
21:50From week 11 on, he still had a 20% target rate.
21:53So his target rate only went down 1%. Does that matter if it's Phil Rivers?
21:58What do you do with that if it's Phil Rivers?
22:00I think it does better. He's been coaching local football for five years.
22:04What do we do with the target rate from Phil?
22:07Right. I don't know. But he averaged five points a game.
22:10That's as far as he can throw it. I think that's why Tyler Warren was getting those targets.
22:15I think he's a by-the-dip guy. And I don't have any problem.
22:19By-the-dip. What are you talking about? You're paying up for him, I think.
22:22By the second half struggles, I guess. Whatever. By-the-dip for the third-ranked guy of a rookie.
22:27Okay. Maybe I said that wrong. But anyways, I think if you're...
22:30By the peak. If you prefer Colston Loveland over him, I'm not going to throw up...
22:35I'm not going to put up a stink about that.
22:38Just because I think the way he finished, the way that they utilized him in the offense, Colston Loveland for the Bears, I mean.
22:44The way he was used more vertically downfield as a true number one receiver.
22:48Because Warren was more of a dump-off run-after-catch guy.
22:51And Loveland was running legit receiver routes. So I think if you like that more, I don't fault you.
22:56I just think Warren is going to get a shitload of volume this year.
23:00That's a big thing. I think if I had to split hairs, I would say Warren is a slightly more floor play.
23:06And Loveland is slightly more of a ceiling play.
23:09I think Warren's just a horse out there, you know?
23:12Yeah. And Pittman's gone. It's a client deal. Alec Pierce has got this foot injury.
23:16And the first 10 weeks of the season, Tyler Warren, fourth in routes run at the tight end position.
23:21Fourth in touches per game at the tight end position.
23:24Like, they were just using him so much. He fucking runs in touchdowns.
23:28He can throw the ball. Like... He can punt.
23:30He might be, like, the centerpiece of the passing game for the Colts.
23:34And Loveland, I think there's slightly more uncertainty. It's like a lot of what Loveland did was when Roma Dunze was hurt at the end of last year.
23:42And the offense is going to look... We don't know.
23:45And Caleb Williams is a little bit more volatile.
23:47And with Roma Dunze, Luther Burden, and Colson Loveland, like, we haven't really seen that trio as, you know, and what that's going to look like.
23:55So... But I do think, like, what DK said, Loveland's...
23:58The explosion, the downfield stuff. Like, I think you could have bigger 130-yard games out of Loveland.
24:02But if you want, like, five catches for 68 yards and a touchdown every week, I feel like Tyler Warren's going to get you up.
24:10It's worth mentioning this is the biggest disagreement. I mean, it's freaking July.
24:13We reserve the right to change our minds. But this is, right now, I think, one of the bigger disagreements we have
24:19with, like, consensus or whatever, among people, other people who rank fantasy.
24:23It's just that a lot of people have Colson Loveland third and Tyler Warren fourth.
24:27By a pretty good amount, actually. And I'm surprised by that for a number of reasons that we can get into.
24:33But, I mean, they're going to be tied for their whole careers because Colson Loveland was the 10th pick out of Michigan to the Bears.
24:40And then, you know, Tyler Warren was drafted with the Colts.
24:43It was a great tight end draft. And they were both in...
24:47You know, Tyler Warren immediately delivered. Colson Loveland was great down the stretch.
24:50So they're going to be tied in real life forever.
24:53But it's funny to me to see such a big gap between them.
24:57And I don't totally understand it. But I look at Colson Loveland.
25:00You guys know when you're, like, excited to go to a restaurant or get a sandwich or something?
25:05Or you're walking around and you're, like, excited to go?
25:08And then you turn the corner... You know when you're, like, excited to get a sandwich?
25:13I don't know. I'm just... I'm hungry, man. I don't know.
25:16Where's he going? I am excited to get a sandwich.
25:19You know when you turn the corner and you go...
25:21And you're going somewhere for whatever. And you turn the corner and there was just a giant line.
25:27Yeah. And you're, like, oh, my God. Fuck. Other people at this spot.
25:30Happened to me last night. Dude. What was it?
25:33Where were you going? We were going to go get ice cream at this place called Big Jill, which was, like, a
25:39very normal, like, mom and pop ice cream spot that Liz grew up with.
25:43And then, like, a year ago, somebody, like, it got big on TikTok.
25:47And now you cannot go without waiting for 30 minutes to get fucking ice cream.
25:51Happened to me in Florence on my honeymoon. I won't name the place because it's overrated and I don't want to be mean.
25:57But there's this place that went viral. And we went and we were, like, what the...
26:02No, the Uffizi sucks. Great art. The art's good.
26:05The museum sucks. But anyway, Colston Loveland's how I feel about your Big Chill Ice Cream.
26:09Where I'm, like, on the end of the season, I was, like, man, I can't wait to get this guy.
26:15Colston Loveland is so good. The Bears. Ben Johnson.
26:17I love the coach. I love the quarterback. He's great.
26:20He was amazing down the stretch. And then I, like, turn the corner and I'm, like, he's going 38th ahead of Joe Burrow?
26:27What do you do? I can't... And I'm, like, all right, it's good.
26:30But it's not this good. I feel like you're waiting for a Philly cheesesteak in Philadelphia.
26:35And I'm, like, all right, Pats is not worth a two-hour wait.
26:38Because Colston... I... We can go into it. But fun fact.
26:41The first half for Colston Loveland, do you know where he...
26:44The first eight games of the season, do you know where he ranked among tight ends?
26:4934th. Not even close. 79th. 50th. He was the 50th tight end in the first half.
26:53He had 17 total points in the first eight games of the season.
26:57Yeah. He's a rookie tight end who was a backup.
27:00I know, but he was a popular sleeper. Colston Loveland's drafted about 100th overall.
27:04He was, like, a 10th or 11th round pick.
27:07And if you had him, you almost certainly caught him.
27:09And then someone else picked him up. And then that person got him for the playoffs, which is, like, infuriating.
27:15So, but then down the... Mikael, he makes a good point here, though.
27:19He was hurt. He was nursing a shoulder injury in training camp.
27:22So, that's going to hurt your first half of the year.
27:25I'm not holding it against him. I'm just saying it was a snip-snap year.
27:29The first half, he's... I do remember. Our producer, Nikael, wants to let you know, Heifus, that Colston Loveland missed most of He's like, how dare you, sir?
27:37I'm glad Nikael brought that up. At the combine, he didn't do any combine stuff.
27:41His shoulder was immobilized. He missed the whole OTAs, minicamp, everything.
27:44He was behind. We always talk about how rookies missing that stuff in training camp.
27:49It sets you back on timeline. And you're already drinking from a fire hose.
27:53It really does slow you down. And that is what happened with him.
27:56Especially Ben Johnson offense. Down the stretch, Colston Loveland was fantastic.
27:59But when people have him as a top 40 player, I just feel like at that point, now I'm a little worried
28:06because he was so good down the stretch. He was the second best tight end, basically, from week nine on.
28:11But my thing is, I feel like it's really all these underlying models and projections are over-indexing that Colston Loveland's best three
28:18games were against the worst defenses in the NFL.
28:20He had 55% of Colston Loveland's fantasy points were against the Bengals, the Niners, and the Lions.
28:25The Bengals, the last two games, the Bengals were the worst defense in the league and were the first team to have
28:31two rookie linebackers for a season in 13 years.
28:34They're the worst defense against tight ends in 10 years.
28:37Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the defenses are bad. Couldn't you bell curve this, though?
28:41Couldn't you be like, you can do all that.
28:43And then you could also be like, he was the 10th pick in the draft.
28:47And if you watch him, he looks fucking good.
28:50You could. He's great. Absolutely. He might be Caleb Williams' favorite target.
28:53And Ben Johnson is the coordinator. Yeah. But this is why we do tier.
28:57Yeah, exactly. I'm just saying it seems like everyone else is doing it.
29:01I'm just saying the Niners defense had allowed 30 points entering the fourth quarter to Philip Rivers the week before.
29:07And the Lions were the most injured defense in the NFL.
29:10I'm just saying those are the games. He's great.
29:12Phil was fresh, though. Phil was fresh, though. Well, here's my question.
29:16And to your point, Roman, didn't say it was hurt.
29:18I'm confused why there's a three-round difference between Loveland and Warren.
29:22And we all looked at this and we're like, yeah, they're about even.
29:25And then you check. And I'm like, I don't really see why Colston Loveland should be going 38th, but Tyler Warren should
29:32be going, you know, almost in the sixth or seventh round.
29:35It's the dip that I was talking about. It's the dip.
29:38I completely agree with you. I think Tucker Craft, Colston Loveland, and Tyler Warren should just all be very close to one another.
29:44And they should be later on. They should be going around like 60th, in my opinion.
29:49But I do believe that Loveland belongs in the same tier as Tyler Warren.
29:53Yeah. And that's the thing is I don't, it sucks too.
29:56Because like Colston, I agree with what you said about ceiling.
29:59I could see Colston Loveland and Tyler Warren both being in the Brock Bowers McBride tier next year.
30:04I could see like four truly elite tight ends in the NFL.
30:07Also. I don't know. Just like really high. I think there's a little bit of just like the Bears are cool and
30:14sexy and Caleb Williams and like they had a bunch of cool plays and the Colts are fucking boring.
30:19Colts are lame. They have Daniel Jones and they ended the season with Phillip Rivers and they haven't made a splash in 10 years.
30:26And it's like, yeah, it's the Colts. And it's like, if the Bears, the Bears are the most fun team in the NFL.
30:32Caleb Williams on the Madden cover. Whoa. Oh, there's famous people on the Bills or on the Bears.
30:37Yeah. I think that's a little bit of it.
30:40I just, yeah. I just, I like, I like Colston Loveland.
30:43It's just a long line. That's all. This episode is brought to you by NOS Energy.
30:48You probably know one. You probably know one. Your buddy.
30:51Your sister. Ones who always show up. They're the first to rise.
30:54The last to leave. They always have that little extra something.
30:57And maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet. Together let's drive.
31:00Visit chevy.com slash trucks to explore the lineup. Can we do a little bit on Tucker Craft?
31:05Please. Because I do want to mention him. I do think he belongs in this tier with Loveland and Warren.
31:10Tucker Craft, before he got, he tore his ACL in week nine?
31:14Week eight? Week nine? Played in eight games. Yeah.
31:16Yeah. Was the number two tight end in fantasy.
31:19Was completely, was a huge hit. Like he was a lot of people's sleeper or like, you know, upside pick coming into last year.
31:26And it totally paid off. He was like first in yards per touch.
31:29First in EPA per target. First in yards after the catch.
31:32He was basically George Kittle. And even if you combined him with wide receivers, like the shit he was doing on a
31:39yards per touch, he was like Alec Pierce, Christian Watson, Jamison Williams, and Tucker Craft.
31:43And then he tore his ACL, which is obviously a huge thing.
31:46He tore it midway through the season. He said he expects, he said his conditioning is great.
31:51They always talk about how fast you reach now.
31:54Like in the off season, it's like Brandon Ayuk was running 22 miles an hour.
31:58Tucker Craft, I guess, hit 21 point whatever miles an hour.
32:01And the off season, that's cool. He says he feels great.
32:04His quote, my quads look great. Swelling is minimal to none.
32:07Like no weird pains and aches coming out of my treatment and my training.
32:11So we're really excited to get the ball rolling.
32:14I plan to start in week one with no pitch count.
32:17And the ACL is a huge thing. But if you, if you convince yourself that like it will be okay, man, do I like Tucker Craft.
32:24Like I was talking about my wide receiver upside formula.
32:27I like a lot of what I see with Green Bay.
32:30I like the play caller. I like the quarterback and I like the volume.
32:34Dobbs and wicks are gone. That's 130 targets. It's a little bit more condensed now.
32:38I even think the amount of times that Green Bay threw to Tucker Craft with all those other guys last year was pretty good.
32:45So if he's healthy, I think Tucker Craft is an awesome pick.
32:49What do you make of this DK? I think Tucker Craft could be one of the best tight ends in the NFL.
32:55So with, I want to put that first and that's real life or fantasy in, in real life.
33:00Like the more tattoos he gets, it's like they're powering, they're powering up him.
33:04He is just doing the, the super Mario brothers power up every time he gets a new tattoo.
33:09It's like George Kittle. He is an excellent. Tucker Craft is an excellent locker.
33:13And probably you're right about that, that the gap between what people think of Tucker Craft and how good he is, it's just a real life tight end.
33:21It's very, he's a very, very high up in the rankings tight end.
33:25Real life. And so like, I want that to be sort of how I start this, but I think there is a
33:31little bit of risk with him relative to some of the other guys in this range, just because of the pure volume that we see.
33:38He was a little bit dependent on touchdowns and big plays.
33:41He had a couple of these plays where he, I can't remember exactly, but he would get free and run for like 70 yards.
33:48I think some of those were boosting his play early on.
33:51He only averaged four catches per game, but they're boosting his play because he's good.
33:55Like, right. I know. But the point is like, how repeatable is that?
33:59I don't know. That's the question. I think maybe if he is George Kittle, then yes, it's pretty repeatable.
34:04Well, it's, and it's also scheme related, which I think could be repeatable to succeed.
34:08Yeah. I don't, you're, you're both. I don't doubt him necessarily.
34:12I just think he was, he was like objectively more reliant on big plays last year and touchdowns.
34:17And so that makes me a little bit nervous, but that doesn't mean I don't think he can do it going forward either.
34:23I think he's just awesome. He might also just be really awesome.
34:27So Tucker craft. He reminds me of a couple of players entering this season and it's like TJ Hockinson and Sam Laporta.
34:33And I say Sam Laporta, not stylistic. I mean, Tucker, perhaps a better tight end probably in real life than Sam Laporta.
34:39Sam Laporta is not a great blocker. Tucker craft is, but it reminds me of Sam Laporta's rookie year.
34:44He had like 900 yards and 10 touchdowns. And it was like, you can kind of have the exact same season and
34:51catches yards and have half the touchdowns by luck.
34:53And then everyone's really mad that they drafted you.
34:56What we always say about quarterbacks were like Baker was Baker Mayfield's going to like the six quarterback last year.
35:01And we're like, he's not going to throw 40 touchdowns again.
35:05That's not going to happen. And then he didn't.
35:07And Tucker craft to your point, DK, my fear is Tucker craft could have a perfect ACL recovery.
35:12Like it's the Fania bell. Who's like the best injury person out there was saying that Tucker craft is right in that
35:18window for an ACL recovery where he might probably be.
35:21If everything stays to the schedule, Tucker craft can be fully healed for the season.
35:25She wrote a great article that he's been about that.
35:28My issue is that Tucker craft could have the same season with the same catches, same yards, same usage in the offense, everything.
35:35But Jane Reed doesn't like break his, get a Jones fracture and break his collarbone two weeks into the season.
35:40And then Tucker craft just has the same year, but he has five touchdowns on the whole year instead of like being on pace for 13.
35:48And then you're kind of mad that you took him over.
35:51I don't know, Jaden Daniels. And that's my issue with Tucker craft.
35:54Cause I think you're both right. He's exactly that kind of player, but you're taking on the risk that there's any decrease
36:01in athleticism off the ACL, which even if it doesn't present immediately, it could develop a November and December, which sometimes annoying,
36:07but you're also just like, all right, but what if he doesn't have the touchdown explosiveness, but it's the same player otherwise.
36:13Yeah. I think he's the last quarterback. He's the last tight end where I'm truly like, I don't really have a lot
36:19of notes about like this team or this environment.
36:22And I feel like he is, if he's healthy, he's relatively safe.
36:25If Tucker craft never tore his ACL and did in roughly stayed on a similar pace, the rest of the season, where would we rank him?
36:33He'd be in tier one. If Tyler, if Tucker craft had like a thousand yards and 12 touchdowns, he'd be.
36:38The touchdowns came down. Let's say he'd start, he started with 500 yards at six and then he had another 500 yards and then had like two more.
36:46So if he had a thousand yards and eight touchdowns, I think he'd be in tier one.
36:51Yeah. That's the question. He tore his ACL. Brock Bowers has never had a thousand yards and eight touchdowns.
36:56Like, well, I mean, that's about as good as it gets for a tight end.
37:01I guess sometimes they can get higher in the touchdown mark, but yeah, I think he would be above Loveland and Warren and fringe with McBride and Bowers.
37:09I think that, yeah, this is the right ranking.
37:11As we get closer to this. I don't know.
37:14He's going right now around like Brian Thomas and Carnell Tate.
37:17Like, I don't know. That feels like a good pick to me.
37:20And I think it's an interesting point because this is the important cutoff is these top two tiers.
37:25And then traditionally, the next group of players is like the worst bet in fantasy is like the tier three tight ends.
37:31That is like eyeball tested. It's also actually like if you look at analytics and stats, JG Zachariasen did a great podcast
37:38last year about this like tight end dead zone, which is trying to fill out the back of the top 10, like the seventh, eighth, ninth tight end.
37:46It's like someone's got to sit. Someone's got to be eighth.
37:49And it's always, it's the Kyle Pitts tier. It's what it is.
37:52It's usually David Njoku, Kyle Pitts and Evan Ingram.
37:55And then Evan Ingram and Joku are cooked. So now it's Kyle Pitts.
37:58We have Harold Fannin as on the Browns as the sixth tight end.
38:02Kyle Pitts is the seventh tight end and Sam Laporte is the eighth tight end.
38:06And it's weird because all of these guys all had unbelievable rookie seasons as tight ends.
38:11Harold Fannin only had a rookie season. Kyle Pitts has not really been the same since.
38:15And then the two games last year, they're amazing.
38:18Sam Laporte had an amazing rookie year and then not a great one.
38:22And we're all, they're all kind of similar. And like, what if they just do the rookie year again?
38:27But traditionally, this has been a very bad bucket of player.
38:30Yes. And I think maybe I completely agree. Is this the year we finally have more good tight ends?
38:35So what do we do with Kyle Pitts? Let's just fucking get to it.
38:39What do we do with this motherfucker? He's the seventh tight end.
38:43What are we, what are we doing with him?
38:45I think him being the tight end seven feels like a value.
38:49Even though I know what every year we get excited about Kyle Pitts, like based on what he did last year.
38:55Feels exactly right to me. It, it, I feel like he has more upside than what we're giving him credit for, I guess.
39:01But the question is, who's the quarterback and how does the offense work?
39:05Um, this Kevin Stefanski is the new coach there.
39:07Is it going to be a Tua or is it going to be Penix?
39:11There's a lot of question marks there, but like last year he averaged seven targets a game, which was 30, average five
39:18targets a game or receptions a game, which was third and 54 receiving yards a game, which was like, he was a top five tight end.
39:25His averages though. Don't he was Kyle Pitts and Colston Loveland were just feet in the freezer, head in the oven.
39:31And you were calling it averages room temperature. But for Colston Loveland, it was injury in the bears offense coming together.
39:37And for the Falcons, it was court. Michael Penix as the quarterback for the Falcons for the first three months, Kyle Pitts was literally the 20th tight end.
39:45Kyle Pitts was basically worse than useless. And then once Kirk Cousins came in, Kyle Pitts was better than Colston Loveland.
39:51Kyle Pitts was the second tight end only to trade McBride once Kirk Cousins came in.
39:55And so the question to me is who plays?
39:58If it's Tua, how much of Tua can replicate what Kirk Cousins did, even though it's a different offense, it's not exactly
40:04the same, but it really comes down to this DK to cut the matter to the bone.
40:09We have Kyle Pitts ranked right now 78th. Are you going to take him there or not?
40:14I feel like you won't. Let me add this.
40:16Let me add this. Taking all personal bias out of it?
40:19Sure. No, into it. It's your team. You're picking.
40:22No one's going to see. What are you doing in private?
40:25Are you going to take him or not? In the privacy of your own home?
40:29Privacy of your own home. When you're sitting on the toilet, drafting on your phone, what are you going to do?
40:35Making sure I'm not attached to Bluetooth anywhere in the house.
40:38Yes, I'm going to make sure. I'm probably not going to draft Kyle Pitts just because of the quarterback situation.
40:44How far does he have to fall to take him?
40:47I don't know. I mean, I would take him above everybody.
40:50A round or two. I would take him above everybody in that next year.
40:54But I want to add one thing about Heifetz's point, the head in the freezer, foot in the oven or whatever.
41:00Yeah, Kyle Pitts did that one game, right? 166 yards and three touchdowns.
41:04Kyle Pitts only had three games last year where he had more than 70 receiving yards.
41:08That only happened three times and they were back to back to back.
41:12All three of those games are when Drake London wasn't playing and it was with Kirk Cousins.
41:17So I don't know. I'm like, you know, that same stat exactly, I think applies to Colson Loveland.
41:22Oh yeah. Well, he did everything. I said that without Roma Duneza when he missed the last five weeks of the season.
41:28So I don't know. I'm like with London, the quarterback situation.
41:31I think seventh or eighth is fine. Can I tell you something?
41:34I think that's fine. Maybe this is unhealthy. I loved this ranking for Kyle Pitts and was pretty prepared to target him
41:41in this range when he was in a contract year.
41:43And Kyle Pitts getting, part of me is a little like, you know, there's been questions about him earlier in his career.
41:50I don't know. Was he tagged? He was tagged, right?
41:53Yes. But then he signed an extension because you get the, you actually have till July 15th to sign a contract extension.
41:59But he signed a three-year deal, which I don't know.
42:02Usually matters. People in contract year, like it matters for Kyle Pitts.
42:05You see the players all the time. So I, I just feel like, honestly, I, I would be lying if I said
42:11I wasn't really colored by my experience in the ringer fantasy league where Kyle Pitts would get me one point and two
42:17points in three and one like under four is so insulting.
42:21It sticks with you, but I, I, I don't know.
42:23But that's tight end for you. That's the nature of the position.
42:27But also Tua could just pepper him. I don't know.
42:30Yeah. So we'll see. The other ones here, Harold Fannin.
42:32If Harold Fannin was on the Patriots, I think he'd be a goddamn phenomenon.
42:36Harold Fannin. Yeah, but he's not. I know he's not, but he's.
42:40Here's the, here's the key point. He's on the Browns, man.
42:43That's kind of tough. One of the statistically best rookie seasons ever for a tight end after having the most yards per
42:49rep run in college ever for a tight end.
42:52Basically the, the, the stink of the Browns is really doing so much to like make you not care about how good
42:58Harold Fannin and Quinshawn Judkins looked last year. Oh yeah.
43:01Like the fact that they have Concepcion, they have Boston, Fannin and Judkins.
43:04If they had Judy. If they were like had a normal quarterback and we're a normal organization, I'd be like the Browns are the next team.
43:12Yeah. But. And Monken too. Like I'm kind of excited about what Monken can do.
43:16This is why we need name brand. We're going to do the consulting agency where we're going to like name, we need
43:22to rebrand the Cleveland Browns as something else. We'd be like, look at this team.
43:27If somebody was like, dude, Subway has an incredible new sandwich.
43:30You'd be like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm going to trust that.
43:34Is that right? Subway has such a distinctive smell.
43:36We talked about this in Indianapolis. You can smell a Subway a mile away.
43:40What other places are like overwhelming smell? I think Chipotle has a smell.
43:44Chipotle's Subway has a smell. Yeah. You just know when you're near a Subway.
43:48In and out has a smell. Yeah. I haven't been in and out in a minute.
43:53Yeah. We should go when we're in Los Angeles in August.
43:56We should be sure. DK, have you been in and out?
43:59Pacific time zone. One time a very long time ago.
44:02You've only been in and out once? Yeah. In your fucking life?
44:05Yeah. Holy shit. What the hell? What have we been doing?
44:08I don't know. Drake, weren't you just saying your dad thought that instead of ordering animal style, the off menu thing at
44:14In and Out, he ordered doggy style? Yeah. This was like 40 years ago.
44:18But yeah. They never. They still talk about it in that in and out.
44:22It's kind of like me and that. He's on a list somewhere.
44:26Yeah. Here. Here. I want to get to get back to Fannin real quick.
44:30I think the most important stat with Fannin that I am going to be watching closely and maybe this changes a lot
44:36this year because of the way that the rosters change.
44:39But last year, and this is the problem you have with a lot of pass catching tight ends.
44:44He only played 52% of three receiver sets. So he was basically in there when they were doing two tight end sets all the time.
44:51That was his main thing. But then he only was in there about half the time when they were doing three receiver
44:57sets, which is, again, still the most common receiver or the most common formation in the NFL.
45:02And by the way. He was a child. He's 21 years old.
45:05The Browns drafted two receivers in the draft also.
45:08Yeah, but Todd Monken was, I mean, he was the offensive coordinator for the Ravens.
45:12But even before that, Georgia, he ran the Brock Bowers, Darnell, Darnell, Darnell, Washington tight end sets like Todd Monk.
45:18It's a pretty big multiple tight end guy. I see what you're saying, though.
45:22Well, he's 21. He well, he's not a real tight end.
45:25It doesn't even matter how old he is. He's not a real tight end.
45:29He's a pass catcher. Is he a receiver or he's a big receiver?
45:33Should we name that for people? Which of these like when defenses look at them, whether they, actually classify it as too tight.
45:39Like Kyle, I feel like the list is players that they're like not a real tight end.
45:44AK can't block Bowers. Actually, they can block. But I would say teams look at this entire tier.
45:49Actually, that is what they have. It's Harold fan and Kyle Pitts and Sam LaPorta are like, yeah, they're receivers.
45:55Sam LaPorta is a tight end, but he sucks at block.
45:58Why is that relevant? DK like why for the person drafting?
46:01Why should they care if he's a wide receiver or a tight end?
46:05Because if he's only playing in half of the three receiver sets.
46:08And again, there's a lot that could change, but he's just not on the field enough.
46:13I mean, like Pitts, Warren, McBride, they all played 90% of three receiver sets last year, which means they're just on the field all the time.
46:20Basically, they are the tight end in their offense.
46:22It's the Isaiah likely problem. It's basically is is Fannin going to be the Isaiah likely where you like love the talent.
46:29He flashes every time he gets the ball. He's awesome.
46:31He makes big plays, but he's only on the field.
46:34He's only on the field 60% of the snaps or whatever it is.
46:38And look, Njoku's gone. So that's a good start.
46:41But I don't think he's a real tight end.
46:43It just depends on what Todd Monken is willing to do.
46:46Is he just going to run out there with no tight end?
46:50So this is a perfect transition to the next tier because Dalton can get the first guy in this next year is Dalton Kincaid for the bills.
46:57But to your point, Craig, about why does this matter?
47:00I think that because the reason Dalton Kincaid gets drafted in real life in the first round by the Buffalo Bills or
47:06Kyle Pitts and the Falcons went before Jamar Chase.
47:09What teams tell themselves is if we have a tight end that we can put out there and they match with the linebacker, he's faster than the linebacker.
47:17And so when in the passing game, but then in the running, we'll have an advantage no matter what.
47:22And then you read that in the blurb. You're like, wait, he's a receiver at tight end.
47:27So that means he's like way better. But what actually happens if you're not good enough is you just have the weaknesses of both things.
47:34You're not fast. They treat you like a receiver.
47:37You're not a good enough blocker to make anyone pay, but you're not good enough at getting open to make the cornerbacks pay.
47:43And so you kind of can't play. And so it's your running game.
47:47Yeah. And so they just don't want to go out there with a guy who can't block.
47:52Exactly. And that's where the league's going. So it's like guys who can block first, then catch, which is how you get
47:58Colston Loveland ends up being probably more valuable because he actually can.
48:01I mean, you know, they have all the rookie upside at blockers.
48:05Even Tyler Warren can block a little. And so these guys who can't block kind of end up a little limited.
48:11So this next year, though, I mean, a lot of these guys like that Dalton Kincaid is like that.
48:16Travis Kelsey. That's why he's kind of like slow down as Travis Kelsey is not a blocker, but he's not that fast anymore.
48:22And this whole tier is Jake Ferguson for the Cowboys.
48:25He's a real tight end. Isaiah likely for the Giants, who's a classic example.
48:29We're talking about he's a receiver. Dallas Goddard for the Eagles and then George Kittle for the Niners, who's like a classic,
48:36the classic example of a total tight end. George Kittle feels low here.
48:39That's the one thing I notice about this tier.
48:42What? I think George Kittle's too low. I think he's going to freakishly outperform his injury for some reason.
48:47I agree. I just dropped it. We're all afraid because he's coming off an Achilles tear, which is a terrifying injury.
48:53But I don't know. I just feel like Kittle is probably going to be undervalued.
48:57Or he's worth more than this spot right now.
49:00Makes me nervous. I mean, we have him ranked as the 14th tight end and you're going like outside the top 100 easily.
49:06He tore his Achilles in week 12. He'll be 33 in October.
49:10I would say history is not on your side.
49:12Right. That's fair. Yeah. Was it week 12? It was late in the season.
49:16I don't know. It was even later. Was it in the playoffs?
49:20Oh, it was in the playoffs. Yeah. Yes. He got hurt and then he came back and he tore his Achilles versus the Eagles in the wildcard round.
49:28You're right. That's why it's a cause for concern.
49:30I do think he's heavy. Again, Stefania Bell is the best person with injury recovery.
49:34I know there's a lot of like Twitter doctors, but Stefania is the best.
49:38And she was right. She wrote us article at ESPN where basically Kittle had some pretty good comments about his recovery.
49:44But it's within the context of, you know, those kind of injuries.
49:48It's like Zach Charbonnet tore his, you know, he's shredding on Achilles, but he shredded his ACL last playoffs and he didn't come back for a long time.
49:56Kittle, I don't think he can play week one versus Australia.
49:59It's like, does he miss a game or does he miss a month?
50:02Yeah. He tore his Achilles on January 11th, 2026.
50:05Oh, that's tough. But I, I, I, it's weird.
50:08We'll have to look into Kittle. It's, it's weird.
50:10This whole tier is weird because it's, yeah, it's, it's also, it's also the first time there's old guys.
50:15I mean, I don't know. We haven't really hit this yet, but like tight ends kind of been overtaken by Gen Z.
50:22Do you know the first, the first person over 26 here is Travis Kelsey.
50:26Who's 10th. Wow. Is that right? It's literally, I mean, if you just go through our rankings, Brock Bowers is 23.
50:32Trey McBride's 26. Tyler Warren's 24. Colston Loveland's 22.
50:34Tucker Craft's 25. Harold Fanning's 21. Kyle Pitts in his fifth season's 25 and Laporte is 25.
50:39And then Dalt Cade's 26. And then you get to now it's Kelsey and Ferguson and all these older guys.
50:45But this is once again, I think I, I, I would be shocked if any of these guys was like a top three tight end.
50:52But if I, but if I told you one of them was, and they just had a great season and then one
50:58of them, you know, really like spark season had like 11 touchdowns.
51:01Who would you pick Greg? Who's your sleeper? It's horrible.
51:04I don't know. I guess I'd pick Isaiah likely to be honest.
51:08That's I don't. Dalton Kincaid does not play. Dalton Kincaid simply just doesn't play enough.
51:12He's a good example of the receiver thing is Kincaid like Kyle Pitts is a.
51:16Tight end. Who's actually a receiver. But when you get injuries and they take away your top end athleticism, then suddenly you're
51:22not able to beat all the other super athletic defenders, but you can't block.
51:26And so it's like, how do we play you?
51:29Let me name some tight ends last year who played a higher snap percentage than Dalton Kincaid.
51:34Mitchell Evans. What team was he on? Panthers. Oh my God.
51:37Noah Fant. Luke Musgrave. Oh. Elijah Higgins. Musgrave. Jeremy Rucker.
51:40Elijah Higgins. I'm shocked that Musgrave played more. I guess Kincaid.
51:43Davis Allen, Austin Hooper, Daniel Bellinger. I mean, he was 54th in tight end snap percentage.
51:47Dalton Kincaid. And you know what? James Cook led the league in rushing, which is the point we're trying to make.
51:53Totally. The Bills running back led the league in rushing and Kincaid didn't play much.
51:57To counter, Dalton Kincaid was first in yards per route run.
52:01Like he's efficient and I think he's good, but he has a partially torn PCL that they're not going to fix with surgery that he's been battling through.
52:08And even the way Billy Bean talks about him.
52:11It sounds like he's injured all the time. Or Brandon Bean, not Billy Bean.
52:15Even the way Brandon Bean talks about him is like, yeah, we're going to have to manage his workload, but I hope he's healthy.
52:22So it's like, okay. I hate to hear that.
52:24Yeah. I don't know about that. Travis Kelsey. You know, I think, you know, Jake Ferguson.
52:29Is Kelsey. Can we do the annual. I'm outing you, but one of you hasn't seen the league, but there's a character
52:35in the league called Taco who doesn't do any research.
52:38Doesn't really watch football. I know that guy's name.
52:40Shows up once a year, once a year to the draft and just he would take Travis Kelsey.
52:46Everyone make fun of him and then he wins the league.
52:49And it's like, Kelsey's the guy where it's like, oh yeah, we got him 10th.
52:53And you're like, how do you get where did he finish in total fantasy points?
52:57Let's hear like second or third. Kelsey was third in half PBR points.
53:01Total. Even though Mahomes, even though Mahomes tore his ACL and the final month was with like Chris Ola Dukin and like the worst quarterbacks in years.
53:08But like Hive, it's to your point. How many points did he average per game?
53:13Nine. Not insignificant. No, it was not. It was what every other tight end averaged.
53:17The guy I want to bring up here. Eight and nine points.
53:20Jawan Johnson averaged eight. Dalton Schultz, eight. Jake Ferguson, eight.
53:23Hunter Henry, eight. Dalton Kincaid, eight. You can just close your eyes and pick one of these guys.
53:28He's going to average eight points. Isaiah likely is the guy, to your point, he's the best.
53:33He's the most pop off the page player, especially like who's going to lead the Giants in targets in September if Malik
53:39Nabors starts the season unphysically unable to perform and misses the first month.
53:43Like it's not going to be Calvin Austin. It's not going to be Darnell Moody.
53:47It'd be Darius Slate. And Isaiah likely is a really talented player.
53:51He's by my Mark Andrews. Ironically, if it's not Isaiah likely, I think it's Mark Andrews.
53:55I think Mark Andrews is actually really undervalued for the Ravens.
53:58And he's a perfect. He hits. He checks every box to me because people are sick of him.
54:03People who just watched the playoffs were like, oh, that's the guy who drops the balls.
54:08People have had him in fantasy or sick of him.
54:11But if you go back. Sick of him. He had a lot of injuries in 2023 that ended his season.
54:16And then 2024, he was recovering from the what's the bad name that he had like that hip.
54:22He had a bad kind of hip recovery. But then he was in a car accident where he almost died like two weeks before the season.
54:29And the Ravens kept that real hush hush. So he didn't fall down rankings enough.
54:33But he really lucky to survive the car accident.
54:36And then last year, Lamar was hurt the whole season.
54:39And so I'm kind of like, maybe he's lost a step.
54:42But they gave him a contract extension. I look at Mark Andrews.
54:45He's only 30. They chose him over likely. Well, that's the thing.
54:48He's only 30 years old. Exactly. They chose him over likely.
54:52He's only 30. They have a new offensive coordinator.
54:54They've got a coach. 31. OK. Well, all right.
54:57Well, you're 31 too. All right. We're not going to put you out to pasture.
55:01I'm 31. No, actually, I do agree with you.
55:03I have him written down here as like a deeper.
55:06I think people are beyond sick of him. I think he's like borderline irrelevant.
55:10They've given up. That show's still on. It's like when somebody's like, you still watch the morning show?
55:15It's like that show's still going. Like, wait, is that show still going?
55:19Is that show still going? Yeah. Morning show's still cooking.
55:22Can I admit something really embarrassing to you? Yeah.
55:24So the morning show, this shows. I mean, first of all, been long, long enough.
55:29There were billboards for it when I still lived in Los Angeles pre-pandemic.
55:32Yeah. And it just said morning show, Apple TV, Jennifer Aniston, and who is Reese Witherspoon, right?
55:37And I drove by it. It was on a billboard.
55:40So I'm driving. I'm not on my phone. I'm not Googling.
55:43I'm like, okay. I'm like, oh, that's so smart of Apple TV.
55:46They're going to like have a morning show with those two women.
55:50That's so smart. Like a real news program. I thought it was like the Today Show.
55:54I thought they were paying them a gajillion dollars.
55:57And I'm like, yeah, my mom's definitely going to watch Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston.
56:01That's so smart. Talk about the news. The whole first season happened.
56:05I had no idea it was a scripted television show.
56:07He's a big Billy Crudup fan. Yeah. Steve Carell.
56:10I think they had like Matt Lauer and Steve Carell on that show.
56:14Oh, tough. But like Mark Andrews, I'm kind of sitting here like everybody's sick of this guy.
56:18They got rid of all their tight ends. Like it used to be like, oh, Mark Andrews is split.
56:24Isaiah Likely, gone. Charlie Kohler, gone. Patrick Ricard, gone.
56:26And it's like they brought in Noah. They drafted the third and fourth round rookie wide receiver.
56:31Eli Surratt and Jacoby Lane. They have, it's still Zay Flowers, Rashad Bateman, Devontez Walker.
56:35I'm kind of like, who's on this team? It's what if Lamar's good again?
56:39He might be pretty, this might not be bad.
56:42I'm ready to be hurt again. There are, I think Mark Andrews, again, he's so cheap.
56:47And again, it's like, would you rather, you know, just where people are going.
56:50If you wanted to draft, let's just take Kyle Pitts because he's an easy punchy back.
56:55You know, in front of Kyle Pitts is like Jackson Dart or Blake Corum, Dak Prescott, Ramondre Stevenson, like there are real players going around him.
57:02You know what I mean? You know, Chris Godwin, if that's your flavor, I don't know about for me.
57:08But the players around Mark Andrews are like, now it's like Jordan Love, Wondell Robinson, Jordan Mason for the Vikings.
57:13Like, you know what I mean? Would you rather have Mark Andrews and, you know, Jackson Dart or like Jordan Love?
57:19To go back to your question earlier, Heifetz, I think you asked if one of these guys ends up being a top
57:26three tight end and you're not going to be surprised about it.
57:29It's going to be Mark Andrews because he's done that before.
57:32Exactly. I'm going to be happy for everyone who drafts him because I think it's logically a smart thing to do.
57:38I agree. So I'm not going to do it.
57:41So we like George Kittle, but we want to see how his rehab.
57:44We want to see how training camp goes. We need to see him running out on the field.
57:49Right. Yeah. And then us not talking about Jake Ferguson's perfect.
57:52The next tier here, I'm going to read a bunch of names and I want each of us to pick up like one.
57:59This is the last real tier. Yeah. So it's Jawan Johnson for the Saints.
58:03Brenton Strange for the Jaguars, who had a good season, but now he's buried in the depth chart.
58:08T.J. Hawkinson for the Vikings. Rondae Gadsden for the Chargers, who had a flash in the pan for a month, but he had a good rookie year.
58:16Hunter Henry for the Patriots. Chico Conquo, who signed with the commanders this offseason from the Titans.
58:21A.J. Barner, who is essential for the Seahawks down the stretch.
58:24Kenyon Sadiq, the first run pick out of Oregon for the Jets.
58:27Dalton Schultz for the Texans. And then Colby Parkinson and Terrence Ferguson for the Rams.
58:31That's a long list, but DK, I'm going to make you go first.
58:35You have to pick one sleeper from this group.
58:38And if I told you someone in this group ends up like a surprise top six tight end of the year and they were like essential draft pick.
58:45Which one do you think it is? Who is the most upside?
58:49Because that's really all we care about. Yeah, this is tough.
58:52I'm going to I'm going to pick out a name that is this is this is another one that's like we're just
58:58sick of this guy and I'm sick of talking about him every year.
59:02But Chica Cuonco for the commanders, because again, there's just a there is a vacancy at the number two receiver spot for this team.
59:09Right now, it's it's Terry McLaurin and a handful of guys that we don't know who's going to step up.
59:14Traylen Burks, probably not. Antonio Williams, maybe, but he's a rookie and he's coming in and he's probably going to just be relegated to the slot.
59:22There's a small chance. Maybe it's not. I mean, it's not nothing that Chica Cuonco ends up second on the commanders and targets and finally realizes the potential.
59:30This would not be the first guy who had to go to a new team to finally realize his potential at tight end.
59:36Can I wait? Can I tell you this? Like, do you know what I have at the top of my notes for Chica Conco?
59:43I don't talk about this guy. It's from two years ago.
59:46Do you know what I wrote? I put it at the top, which rocks for hand.
59:51Chico Conco cannot catch. I don't care how many targets he has.
59:54He cannot catch a football. Yeah, but you're right, though.
59:57But he is good when he has the ball.
59:59Oh, my God, look at that guy. He can run after the catch.
60:03I don't know. I remember that one, like, 70-yard touchdown he had, and I was like, whoa.
60:08He's so good. He did sign for, like, a surprising amount of money.
60:12I'm going to pull it up. I don't have it off.
60:15He's never had more than three touchdowns in a season.
60:17Well, neither did Trey McBride before last year, Craig.
60:20That's true. I think that you're right. It checks a few of the boxes you want for, like, a huge breakout, which is definitely an athlete.
60:27No one questions, like, the ability. Can't catch. And Jaden Daniels is great.
60:31Washington doesn't know the player is by McLaurin. You also said upside.
60:34They have no receiving on that team. You also said upside.
60:38And I thought, he's a guy that actually has upside.
60:40If you're looking for a floor play, I think Dalton Schultz is maybe the guy in this range.
60:46I feel like we kind of floor play. He had over 100 targets last year.
60:50Who fucking drafts? Who's looking for a floor play?
60:52Pick 180. Yeah. I don't know. Well, maybe you didn't draft a tight end before that.
60:57I guess. I guess if you, like, truly. Oh, please.
61:00But he'll be on waivers. If you need seven points a game, draft Dalton Schultz.
61:04Who's your, Craig, if I told you someone in this group exploded, who is it?
61:08It's funny. I think there's, like, more options in this tier than the one above it that has more, like, huge upside potential.
61:15I think I would take A.J. Barner on the Seahawks, who could be, like, the second or third pass catcher on this team.
61:21I mean, it's basically, it's JSN, and then behind it, it's, like, Rasheed Shaheed and Cooper Cup.
61:26And whatever you want to think of those two or how they're used in the offense, I'm like, A.J.
61:31Barner, 500 yards, six touchdowns last year. He had 50 yards and a touchdown in the Super Bowl.
61:36And the new offensive coordinator, Brian Fleury, was the tight ends coach on the Niners for the last four years with George Kittle.
61:43I think Barner played a little bit more than I thought when I looked at it.
61:4877% of snaps last year. 12th in routes run per drop back.
61:51Played a lot more than Arroyo. And Barner's a good blocker.
61:54So I think, like, he can be on the field.
61:57I mean, he was definitely seen as a guy who could do both, block and catch.
62:01And so I'm like, I don't know. This is an offense that might feature the tight end more.
62:06The offensive coordinator makes sense. He can be on the field a lot because he can block.
62:11And he's been a guy that they like in the red zone.
62:15And he catches a lot of touchdowns. He's pretty good, man.
62:18I think I love everything you said about that.
62:20The only concern is really that Arroyo breaks out and they try to use him more.
62:25Because he was hurt most of his rookie year, I believe.
62:28I think Arroyo is, again, he's another crazy athlete receiver who just plays tight end.
62:32And if he doesn't work out. He's not really a tight end.
62:36Yeah. But that's kind of what we saw with Tucker Craft and the Packers.
62:40The Packers took Luke Musgrave, who how many sports did he play in college?
62:44Like seven or whatever? Luke Musgrave? Oh, yeah. He was like the former skier.
62:48He was like the craziest athlete at tight end.
62:50And they took him in the second round. Packers took Tucker Craft in the third round.
62:55And you know what? Tucker Craft can actually block and play tight end.
62:58So he plays. And Luke Musgrave doesn't fucking play.
63:01So AJ Barner has that path. I would say there's one guy here that leaps off the page to me.
63:07And it's probably my biggest sleeper in the season.
63:09He's kind of like the twin to Mark Andrews.
63:12But Mark Andrews is like wins on grit and hustle.
63:14And this person's actually athletic. TJ Hawkinson for the Vikings.
63:17I think he reminds me of. The forgotten man.
63:20Yeah. We were trying. I re-listened to the episode we did at the end of the season where we were doing memento tattoos.
63:26And we were like, what's the Jonathan Taylor lesson?
63:29And Craig said, anyone who's ever been like the best person at their position and is not 30 yet, we should think about.
63:35That's TJ Hawkinson. I think I said he's not 27, but that's fine.
63:39I was stretching it for my own purposes. Craig, don't go check.
63:42Don't go check what you actually said. Hawkinson's 29.
63:45He's a first round pick. DK, is TJ Hawkinson athletic?
63:48Yeah. He was. Yeah. But he had an ACL injury and then he had a late ACL injury.
63:53And he talked about how the next season coming into it, it really affected his season.
63:57And then coming into last year, I liked him as a sleeper.
64:01But then what we didn't foresee is how bad JG McCarthy was.
64:04And the Vikings offense was a mess. And I think that TJ Hawkinson's been lost in the wash of no one really
64:11knows how to put that in context. I don't think it's hard to foresee a situation where considering he's going like he's
64:17like a 14th round pick where, oh, this guy who was once a top two tight end, now that his knee is
64:23healthy and his quarterback is no longer JG McCarthy, is like back in being a top eight guy.
64:28And I think I'd rather have TJ Hawkinson. He's, I don't think he's a top 200 pick right now.
64:33He's going on waivers after your draft. And at that rate, that is what makes me rethink drafting Harold Fannin or Kyle Pitts or Sam Laporta.
64:41I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I agree with that.
64:44He's the second guy on this list of me behind Barner of like guys who I think can pop contract year also for TJ Hawkinson.
64:51And the question is like, it's the Kyler Murray question where on one hand you're like way better than JJ McCarthy.
64:57And on the other hand, you're like Trey McBride.
64:59I'll say the stat again, seven touchdowns in 39 games with Kyler Murray, 10 touchdowns in 12 games with Jacoby Brissett.
65:05But yeah, that doesn't mean McBride still wasn't great and was getting a lot of targets.
65:10So it's obviously still a huge upgrade. So I agree.
65:13I mean, if you're this late in the draft, like this guy's proven it definitely worth a dart throw.
65:18There's a lot going on. It's like you have Jefferson, you have Juwan Jennings, you have Jordan Addison.
65:23There's a lot of people there. Yeah, but he's also, but he's literally free.
65:27I guess that's what I'm saying. Someone who three or four years ago was the second tight end is free.
65:33Okay. So the other people want to mention is the Rams tight ends, Colby Parkinson and Terrence Ferguson because so Pukeniku is like the third pick.
65:40He might be the first pick in some drafts.
65:43And then Devonta Adams goes 30th or so or 40th, whatever.
65:46Yeah. The next Rams players past catchers drafted are under.
65:48There are no other ones drafted. It's just like the running backs.
65:52It's Kyron Williams and Blake Corum. No one else is being drafted.
65:55And so it's like the two tight Rams tight Colby Parkinson.
65:58I think everyone's like, well, regression, blah, blah, blah.
66:01He had nine touchdowns. He won't do that again.
66:04He's going to just do it again. That's the guy this year.
66:07He's going to have exactly as many touchdowns this year as he did last year.
66:11And then Terrence Ferguson is going to get better too.
66:14But I think they're going to both play all the time.
66:17I have no earthly idea what week you should play them or whatever.
66:21I think there'll be this year's version of across the season.
66:24They'll have really good years. Godspeed on when to play them.
66:27But I think they're both talented and it will, they will be the third and fourth receivers the Rams.
66:32And if anything happens to Puka or Devonta, they're going to be like weekly plays and they're also free, but that's, that's it.
66:39So with that said, good. I like that. They're great.
66:42With that said, I want to get a hot quarterback rankings and emails, but with having just gone through these tears, Craig,
66:48do you think, how do you feel from what you said at the start of the show?
66:53Do you want an elite tight end? Are you willing to, what would you do in your draft if you had to draft right now at tight end?
67:01I'm, I think I am more likely to go after a top two, maybe one of the tier two guys I like,
67:07but I think Bowers McBride and a Warren Loveland craft.
67:10I think I'm really going to go after that this year or wait to the very end, but I'm more likely to
67:16get an elite tight end this year than I think I have been in years past.
67:21DK. Yeah. I'm in, I'm in the exact same boat.
67:23I think I like that. I am just more excited.
67:26I never does that. Like I, I used to never draft Gronk, Travis Kelsey.
67:30I don't know why I didn't like reaching on tight end.
67:33I do feel like this year I like Bowers and McBride more than typical years.
67:38You have a potential to have a really strong, uh, advantage at your tight end spot.
67:42It's there's just a, yeah, it's just so flat after I like, I like Bowers.
67:46I agree with what you guys are saying. The flip side is I do think that just the overall youth at the position creates some level of chaos.
67:54And I just think there are so many, I mean, again, the youth of all these guys, I just think there are
68:00more tight ends that are viable than there have been, not just because there's more tight ends on the field, but when
68:07we're talking about all these guys who entered the league in the last three seasons.
68:11I don't know. To me, a lot of guys are going to score eight points, but.
68:15That's true. That's probably true. Yeah. Well, then, yeah, fuck them.
68:19Bowers, what do we always say about a tight end that's actually elite?
68:22Super bad? It's like having two, it's like having two cocks.
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68:58Hit the street, grab a can, and get after it.
69:01We have some, we have, I want to, I have a hockey email here, but first we have to get to something very important.
69:08The hot quarterback rankings. Cannot wait. They're here. Voted on by the seven.
69:12Yes. For those who don't know, someone asked me, what's the seven?
69:15And I'm like, right, maybe everyone was. We have seven female listeners, so we call it the seven.
69:20We asked all seven of the women who listened to the show to rank quarterbacks, and they did.
69:25All seven women. Hundreds of them actually responded. Hundreds of the seven wrote in and gave us rankings.
69:30So we actually averaged, and way more scientifically than you would ever think, actually averaged all these rankings from all seven women who sent us rankings.
69:38And we last week did the honorable mention. So at the top of every week, we're going to reveal the next four.
69:44So today we're going to reveal the beginning of these rankings.
69:47So we're going to do 13, 14, 15, and 16 here for the sexy.
69:51Are we doing sexy 16 or no? Sweet 16.
69:53You guys don't, why don't you like sexy 16?
69:56What is wrong with sexy 16? I don't, I don't feel strongly either.
70:00I'm not going to push into it. It's fine.
70:02Fine. Sweet 16. No, it's fine. We're doing top 16.
70:05Wait, can you remind people who the honorable mentions were at 20 to 16?
70:09I, of course I can. So the honorable mentions, the people who did not, that just missed the cut in no particular
70:15order, Daniel Jones, Bo Nix, Kyler Murray, Sam Darnold, Drake May, who one comment always looks 12, Jared Goff, Fernando Mendoza, and Kirk Cousins were honorable mentions.
70:23Wait, you named so many there. We didn't talk about that many last time.
70:27No, we only did four. I was talking about who the four honorable mentions were.
70:31You named like eight. Well, then I'll go fuck myself.
70:34Okay. Those are the people who didn't make it.
70:36He snuck a few in there. Who are the four?
70:39Who are the first four out? It was Drake May, Goff, and Mendoza and Cousins.
70:44It's like the tight ends, man. Some of these things are close.
70:47I'll score eight points. Oh, please. Okay. The middle of squishy.
70:50So start with 16. Okay. Can I get a drum roll?
70:53The 16th hottest quarterback of the 2026 NFL season, as voted on by all seven of the women who listen to the
70:59Ringer Fantasy Football Show is Jackson Dart, quarterback for the New York Giants.
71:0316. 16. This is shocking. I have a theory.
71:06I'll tell you what. I know what your theory is, and you're right.
71:09So much higher. Well, I have two theories. One, are people going to say he's a douche or the Trump thing?
71:15Both. Yes. Yeah. People, he definitely suffered. You know, political alignment has taken a disproportionate impact.
71:20Sure. Women buy Nikes too, guys. Yeah. Look, we're playing for all 50 states.
71:24I, I, I, liberals buy Nikes. Women parameters on how they should judge hotness.
71:28Yeah. And I definitely will say. Vibes are a part of it.
71:31And also, yeah. And a lot, it was very fresh in the minds.
71:35And a lot of people were upset about that.
71:37But I, I have a bunch of comments here about Jackson Dart.
71:41I will admit there was, there were a lot of threes and layups.
71:44I actually will. I'm not going to pull out a lot of data for the sexy contest, but I am going to pull it out for Jackson Dart.
71:52I want to add my, my second theory, other than the Trump thing and like the vibes there.
71:57I also think he's just not that famous. And I think that helps a lot.
72:02Like, I think guys like Joe Burrow, who like everyone knows helps.
72:05And I think there's probably a lot of people who are like, this guy like barely played.
72:10Who even is he? Now he's not that hot.
72:12But it would, I think fame adds two points to your hot.
72:16That's true. I don't, I can't prove that that's true.
72:19There is another thing. Can you think of another reason that he was low?
72:23I think it's, he's got too much shit on his head.
72:26He's too many accessories. I, it's, that's. That's one of those old man things you've ever said.
72:31Take that shit off your head. He's got a fucking necklace.
72:34He's got shit all over his face. It's funny.
72:36Riaf, son. Well, it's funny to get said that because the other thing that dragged him down, the people, the other reason
72:42people had him really low was he just looks young.
72:45And a lot of people that are like, it seemed like everyone 29 and older was like, that looks like a child.
72:52He looks like a high schooler. But so Dart had the biggest standard deviation of any quarterback.
72:56He had. That's really. That's really funny. He's the only quarterback that had more than 50 top 10 votes that had more than 30 bottom 10 votes.
73:04Okay. Can we say, where did you guys have them?
73:07I had a nice. Oh, I'd have to pull it up.
73:10I put him 15th. Can you just look where I had them?
73:13I think I don't have the sheet. I think it's at him fifth.
73:17I think we were kind of like, you did.
73:20You did have him fifth. No, no, no. That's what I'm looking at.
73:23Oh yeah, you did fifth. Yeah. I mean, I think he's really, I mean, he's, he's a good looking man.
73:29So let me, can I read you some of the anonymous quotes?
73:32A little fan bias there. What did you have?
73:35That's his quarterback. That's my quarterback. Yeah. Well, you're wrong.
73:38Can I read you some of the comments with this?
73:41Not according to this. Craig's too high on him.
73:43These are the comments. The, the all seven of our women listeners wrote about Jackson Dart.
73:48These are all anonymous quotes. The NFL's hottest fuck boy.
73:50Yeah. Looks like he bang. Looks like he banged my best friend's mom.
73:54Yeah. Zach Wilson corollary. Seems like a 1980s teen movie villain.
73:57Yeah, for sure. Oh, big time. Yep. Him and Bo Nix would crush it.
74:01We haven't brought up the fact he has a mullet yet.
74:04Has a mullet. Stereotypically, Jock probably shoves someone into a locker in high school.
74:08Oh, big time. Yeah. Nerds. And then so to the mullet.
74:11Nerds. Nerds. Political activity. This one I thought was so funny.
74:15Someone said political activity aside. Not every guy can look good in a curly mullet.
74:19Dart rocks it. And he looks a bit like a yossified Matthew Stafford.
74:22Okay. I don't know how to say that word out loud, but it's like, you know, like people write like, yeah.
74:28Like why? Yossified. Yossified, yeah. Yossified. I don't know how to say that.
74:32Yossified? Yossified. Yeah, okay. I don't say that word a whole lot.
74:35Yeah, look, I think what Jackson Dart lacks in traditional attractive qualities he makes up for in kind of just like confidence.
74:42Yes, he's an incredibly confident man. He's got swag or whatever.
74:45What is it? Riz, as the kids are saying.
74:47I feel like it's like, if he's like talking to you at a bar, you kind of could be into it.
74:53You could be like, you know what? This guy's kind of got an energy to him.
74:58He's tall and really muscular. So there's that. Well, that's what these guys are, but yeah.
75:02No, no, they're not all tall, Craig. True. That's such a good call.
75:06All the tall ones are in the top 16.
75:09So that's my biggest theory. I have seen the rankings, the full rankings.
75:12You have not. I think height would really change this.
75:15If we just held the faces to the heights, I think a lot of these would change.
75:20If you're having to look at them in the eyes.
75:23A couple other quotes that I thought were really funny about Jackson Dart has a dozen red flags and he's proud of all of them.
75:30That's good. Jackson Dart. Someone said, I know it wasn't his choice, but someone who spells Jackson with an X cannot be hot.
75:36I was going to ask if the X makes a difference here.
75:40Someone said Jackson Dart would absolutely ruin my life.
75:42Complimentary. That's perfect. Girls love a bad boy. Like one night in a bar.
75:46You're like, you know what? Let's fucking go for it.
75:49I'm not here. I'm not here for. I'm here for a good time.
75:53Not a long time. Yeah. Is that. But yeah.
75:55So, yeah, I think. Hot if you're jimsy. So that's 16.
75:58Okay. Jackson Dart. The quotes delivered on that one.
76:01Number 15. Do I. Can I make you guys guess who do you think is next?
76:06Baker. And I'm going to spoil it and tell you I bet you won't get it right.
76:10So with that said, can you guess? Sam Darnold.
76:13No, he was already out. Oh, was he out?
76:15Heifetz gave it away. Jordan Love. No. 15. This person's ahead of Jackson Dart.
76:19So you think this person doesn't deserve it? Aaron Rodgers.
76:22Tyler Shuck. Tyler Shuck is three on this list.
76:25No. I don't think they even know that he's like six foot five.
76:28Tyler Shuck. This is why we did it, boys.
76:31Because men don't know what women want. Men don't know.
76:34And Tyler Shuck. Well, I have Shuck nine. DK might know what women want.
76:38DK had Jackson Dart 15th and the seven had him 16th.
76:41DK had Tyler Shuck ninth. Yeah. I think he's traditionally attractive and he's tall.
76:45He's tall. I don't know if they know that though.
76:48I don't think, I would not describe him as traditionally attractive.
76:51You would? I don't know. He's got like a square jaw, hair.
76:54I think that he's tall. He's rich. He has hair.
76:57They're rich compared to the other guys. They're all rich.
77:00Come on. Can I read you some of the quotes the seven wrote in about Tyler Shuck?
77:05Wow. Okay. He has a kind eyes, Craig. Yeah.
77:07Someone wrote. First of all, someone just wrote it about Tyler Shuck, which is so perfect for the photos.
77:13Also, if you're listening on Spotify, you can hit video and watch the video of this.
77:17Or on Netflix. Put us on Netflix. This is a great segment for Netflix.
77:21Someone wrote in and just said, Tyler Shuck, smile more.
77:24Smile for me, baby. Come on. Someone said, Tyler Shuck, wonder bread looking ass.
77:28Yeah. Ooh, now this picture. This picture's good. Like Jason Segel in Forgetting Sarah Marshall, like dating Kristen Bell.
77:33I'm like, Gai Normo, get out of the shot.
77:36Like, I think he's like a great, like hold the purse for your girlfriend guy.
77:40Yes. Someone said, I'm sure I've seen this guy on The Bachelor before.
77:44Yeah. Oh, 100%. He's on the whole Bachelor, like rotation.
77:47All the different shows. He's kind of like, and we'll like take photos of his girlfriend.
77:51He'll take like 40 versions of the same photo for his girlfriend on Instagram.
77:55And their shoes aren't in any of them. And she's mad about that.
77:59Yeah. If he, someone said, Tyler Shuck, if he wasn't a quarterback, he'd be pulling groupies as the cute front man for
78:05a pop punk band at a warehouse party. Definitely.
78:08I'm glad. Okay. Someone said, I hate that I find Tyler Shuck attractive frat boy in a bad way, but I can't quit him.
78:14Wow. Oh. Someone said sinister frat boy energy. Sinister.
78:17Really? Oh, I don't kiss a sinister energy. I was going to say, he looks kind of wholesome to me.
78:23I agree. I think he looks, yeah. Sinister is such a great word.
78:26Someone wrote, I wish he was my math tutor.
78:29Oh, geez. And then something I have to ask you guys about that I just, is a total blind spot for me.
78:35This is a nice photo of him. The one we're looking at, he's, yeah.
78:39Okay. Someone wrote, Tyler Shuck, pretty cute, points off for being an adult blonde man.
78:43Ah. I got to tell you, I didn't know that that was a thing.
78:47It's a thing. Can you please tell me about this?
78:50Is it a red flag to be a blonde adult?
78:53Is it like, because I was blonde as a child?
78:56Even I was really blonde as a child. It's kind of like an unserious hair color for an adult man.
79:01Is that the idea? That's really good. That's so funny.
79:04I never thought about that. You were a blonde child?
79:07I was a very blonde. Yeah, I was. Yeah, I was dirty.
79:10Yeah, I was actually dirty. Wow. Probably not as blonde.
79:13You were blonde as you were really blonde. I mean, DK, your son is very blonde.
79:18Calvin still has blonde hair. Yeah. Yeah. He might be guilty of this when he's an adult and has blonde hair.
79:24I think I might be getting a little too overwhelmed.
79:27But like, he's 15th on this list. This is still like kind of middle average, I would say.
79:32Well, average starting quarterback. Someone also said, my wife had to Google image him, this man's a blank sheet of printer paper.
79:38Yeah. And then the funniest comment was someone just who wrote long sentences for other quarterbacks then just wrote Tyler Shuck dash forgettable.
79:44Okay. All right. Which was me. Who's sinister? Who's 14?
79:4714. I think this is where I'm going to actually hold my line and say the seven are wrong.
79:53Okay. 14 is Jaden Daniels for the Washington Commanders.
79:55Oh, yeah. I had him way higher. I think that this is the first real misstep from the seven.
80:01I have him 13. So I'm right on. Oh, interesting.
80:03Okay. I had him four. Really? I think he's a good looking man.
80:07Look at that smile. He's a good looking man.
80:10I don't know. So someone wrote. What do I know?
80:12That's why we that's why we consulted the seven.
80:15So the comments on Jaden Daniels. Beautiful smile. Charisma out the ass.
80:18Clear skin. Could stand to gain a few pounds, but that's between him and God.
80:23He's skinny. He's a little skinny. Yeah. And then someone wrote his style confidence.
80:27He has cool effortless demeanor, long lean, fantastic angular bone structure, million watts smile.
80:31I prefer my men a little thick, but Jaden looks great.
80:34It's surprising. He's only 14 considering some of these compliments.
80:37Someone else wrote. I'd smoke a joint with Jaden Daniels, but I wouldn't fuck him.
80:41He does have like that saying. How do you say it?
80:44Song Freud? Like the he's just cool under pressure.
80:46Yeah, he's another guy whose confidence to me elevates his looks.
80:50I thought someone nailed this and they just wrote.
80:52Oh, I'm sorry. I don't have the exact comment, but they basically wrote Jaden Daniels has not played in enough games yet
80:58for people to realize how hot he was or hot he is, which I think is accurate because he had a rookie
81:05year and then he missed a lot of time.
81:07Also, I will say, I think some of the some of and this is like something that will probably happen with all
81:13these guys, but like it depends on the first picture you see of him.
81:17I think there's like an anchoring effect because I must have pulled up one where he was smiling.
81:22He has a great smile. Incredible smile. So maybe that was the anchoring effect for him for me.
81:27And can I can I throw out one other thing about Jaden Daniels where the same thing that the height would affect it?
81:34There is one thing that would dock him quite a bit that I think if women knew this.
81:39Well, what Brandon Iyuk did last week was out of bounds.
81:42I will. It is a known thing that Jaden Daniels, his mom is always there.
81:46His mom is always like within 30 feet of where they're Jaden Daniels is.
81:50He has a game. He's out of whatever. I think I think at some point that might become grading.
81:56The mama's boy situation. Yeah, I think that that's that's it's I think that that might impact the hotness rating that he
82:02is any social event he's at the World Cup.
82:05He's at whatever his mom's always there with him.
82:07Yeah. Loving your mom is good, but having her around all the time.
82:11Not good. I'm just saying that if it would it would impact the ratings if people do that.
82:16I love I'm having so much fun with this.
82:18I truly have no idea what to expect. He's number 14.
82:22Also, all these are surprising. Women also notice things I'd never think about.
82:25Someone wrote Jaden Daniels knows how to do his hair right for his face shape.
82:29Oh, interesting. I just I'm still working on that myself.
82:32We all are. Sure. So for the record, we had Jaden Daniels seventh as a composite ranking.
82:37I think I think I'm not going to try to fight the women on this one, but I think that one I think I'm going to stick with.
82:45OK, the next one, 13th on the. The quarterback hot rankings, man, I got no idea where this is.
82:50I think this is Brock Purdy for the Niners.
82:53That's kind of shocking to me. I had him 32nd.
82:56Why? Because he's like a child. He looks like he's 12.
82:59I don't know. I had him 10th. 10th? That's wild.
83:02How is that so different? I think he's a little cutie.
83:05Cutie or cutie patootie? A little cutie. A sweet little cute guy that you meet in high school and he's really nice.
83:11And, you know, he's quietly really athletic and strong.
83:14But he's like the nice cute guy in gym class that you run into.
83:18DK, why'd you have him 30? You're probably 30 seconds.
83:20I just think he doesn't have a look. He just doesn't look like anything.
83:24He's the guy you don't notice in the store.
83:27That's exactly what someone wrote to us. I literally, I actually went back and found that email for that woman who emailed
83:33us who works in a Lululemon and Brock Purdy came in and none of them knew he was the quarterback for quite a while.
83:40I just don't. I think relative to the rest of the guys on this list, he's not noticeable.
83:45I mean, I'm not saying he's ugly. You having him 30 seconds is out of control.
83:5030 seconds crazy. Out of 36 or 40 or what?
83:52What? I assume it's not out of 32. It's 32.
83:55No, he has only four. Yeah, he has four guys after Brock Purdy out of 36.
84:00This was hot in his rankings. I don't find him hot.
84:03I know, but so DK, it represents something that I also.
84:06He's a conventionally like solid looking guy. When he does the dance, I'm like, stop doing that.
84:11This is an age thing as well. When he does like, you know, he does the fucking, what is it?
84:17The gritty or whatever? He kind of hits it though.
84:19White. No, not the gritty. The Dougie. Craig, you got to see what's going on here.
84:24One, DK hates the 49ers. Two, DK is 12 years older than us.
84:28The fact that he's wearing a 49ers uniform probably does.
84:30I think he kind of hits the Dougie. But no, it's an age thing.
84:34I think he looks like a little kid doing it.
84:37I'm like, please stop doing that. A lot of women wrote in and I could tell some people's ages because some people
84:43had a giant bucket of like Purdy was bucketed in a lot with Drake May and Cam Ward as young guys.
84:49They just would kind of like literally children. Yeah.
84:52And I think that for people of a certain age, there's a point where they look so young.
84:57We have a 38 year old woman voting here.
85:00The kid who looks 20, I get it. Maybe not.
85:02Yeah. So can I read you some of the comments the seven had about Brock Purdy?
85:07Sure. Brock Purdy. Looks like he wears khakis in his free time.
85:10Yes. Yeah. Brock Purdy. Sweet little Disney Channel original movie quarterback.
85:13Exactly. Derogatory and complimentary. Apparently. I don't know. Brock Purdy.
85:16The friend zone tier where these guys would be fun to hang out with, but would never ever date.
85:22Like we can go midi golfing or high five each other.
85:25See, I feel like this is more close to what I was saying.
85:28Maybe I was a little harsh. No. Brock Purdy.
85:31Cute like a puppy or like a kid playing T-ball.
85:34I think a kid playing T-ball. Someone just wrote Brock Purdy, you little scamp.
85:38Yeah. Well, I do. I do call him a sneaky little shit.
85:41And that's my most. That's the strongest compliment you can get from me.
85:45Someone just accurately wrote Brock Purdy, somehow 26 and not 19, but he cannot grow a lick of facial hair or even
85:51stubble has almost no shot at escaping the ranks of the inoffensively cute, which keeps him as just kind of a guy.
85:57Yeah. I can't believe he's this high. What? 13th?
86:00I think this is right. I think this is the right range.
86:03So one woman put him first and said, he's Mr.
86:06Relevant to me. Is this his wife? Is he married?
86:09Here's the thing, DK. Here's the thing. If Brock Purdy was in your friend group, he might immediately become the hottest guy in your friend group.
86:16Of course. Of course. So. Yeah. Can I? And also like he is way more athletic than he looks.
86:22Yes. Yeah. I think. And you know, he has the confidence of being the final pick of the draft and he's been awesome.
86:28He got the big time deal. Makes 50 million a year.
86:31I get it. I get it. I probably docked him a lot because of the uniform he wears.
86:36Like 6'1", 220. Did you guys meet my friend Brian at my wedding?
86:40I don't know if you did. He kind of reminds me of Brock Purdy because when you meet him, you wouldn't expect
86:46him to be like a psycho murder competitor, like just an absolute gamer.
86:50But like, like he just looks like he's like a very normal looking consultant.
86:54But then like he, I've seen him make half court shots during games because people said he couldn't.
86:59Like Craig. Like Craig. Like kind of like Craig.
87:02And I'm like, you wouldn't expect that. I'm like, you know.
87:05All right. I'm being a hater. Can I read you?
87:0830 seconds is fucking wild. That's wild. Well, he just hates the Niners, dude.
87:12Come on. Look, it's the one team I am allowed to hate.
87:15All right. Dude. One other comment. Someone said Brock Purdy adorable, but probably asked permission to hold hands.
87:20Adorable. Okay. So run through 16 through 13 again.
87:2313 is Brock Purdy. Jaden. Sorry. Yeah. 16th is Jackson Dart.
87:2615th is Tyler Shuck. Jaden Daniels is 14 and Brock Purdy is 13.
87:29So that is 13 to 16 on the top 16.
87:32Fascinating. I'm having a blast with this. It's unbelievable.
87:35You want, you want some analytics on this? Sure.
87:37Well, the, the real analytic takeover, the takeaway rather is that Jackson Dart was just in a lot of top fives and
87:44bottom fives, which I think says something about modern dating.
87:46Yeah. But I think Jackson Dart's the most surprising one on here to me.
87:50Maybe. Well, a third of women had Brock Purdy in their top 10, but only.
87:55Wow. 5% of women had him in their bottom 10.
87:57Hmm. Yeah. All right. He's safe. Seahawks fans. Probably represent.
88:00It's you and Mina have him in the bottom five.
88:03Question. Mina, we might get Mina on this show.
88:06She's so angry. Oh, yeah. I want to hear where she has him.
88:09Mina's furious with us. Where do you, where would you rank Kyle Shanahan?
88:13Do you think Kyle Shanahan's hot? I feel like he's probably hot.
88:16Next year we'll do coaches. Yeah. Next year we were 1000% doing coaches.
88:20Yeah. Next year. 100% we're doing coaches. Yeah. Women listening, please start sharpening your ranking, your coach rankings now.
88:25We're going to do coaches next year. Absolutely. Okay.
88:28So we're going to do these at the top of every week, right, Craig?
88:32So next week we're going to have 12 to nine.
88:35And yeah. So we'll do those at the top of each week through.
88:38I got to say, the seven have delivered. This is seven above and beyond.
88:42Yeah. Thank you for this. Okay. Can I read you?
88:45I'll read you one email. We'll get out of here.
88:48Yeah. Let's do it. These are just. I love that.
88:51We're just like doing hockey history. I had to go back to Wayne Gretzky for a second.
88:56Courtney Howe, Wayne Gretzky. Love it. So first of all.
88:59The Oilers won the Gretzky trade. That's that's. You know what?
89:02Yeah. You're probably right. Actually. It is crazy that they traded away.
89:05Wayne Gretzky for money and then won another Stanley Cup.
89:08And the Kings never won. So this is this email is from Brendan.
89:12B-Bone. I'm not going to read the whole thing.
89:14All right. But I. His breakfast is low fat Greek yogurt with dried cranberries, roasted sunflower seeds and almonds with a cup of black coffee.
89:21Oh, that sounds good. Oh, you're an almond person.
89:24I didn't realize that. You say almond. Almond. Almond.
89:26There's an L in there. Almond? The Almond Brothers.
89:29Almond. Yeah. There's an L. I've never said that in my life.
89:32Almond. Almond. Almonds. So New York. Almond. I know.
89:35People who say almonds say pillow instead of pillow usually.
89:38Pillow. Yeah. That's good. Oh, Heifetz is a pillow.
89:40Where are you? Pillow. Pillow. Or like milk. Milk.
89:43Almonds. Almond. No. What? Almonds. Is that an accent or is the L silent?
89:47I need to know now. The L isn't silent.
89:49But there are people who say almond. What about like in church?
89:53P-S-A-L-M. Psalm. You pronounce the L? Yeah. Yeah. Psalm.
89:55Maybe it's just New York. Maybe it's just a pediment.
89:58Psalm. Psalm. Psalms. Psalm. Almond. You say Psalm. Psalm.
90:01I'm Jewish. I don't fucking know. That's. Yeah. Psalms.
90:03That's. Yeah. Psalms. Almond. Anyway, Wayne Gritsky. When you start saying it, when you start saying it, how it should be said,
90:09though, it does kind of make you sound like Dave Chappelle impersonating a white person.
90:14Oh, man. Psalms. Psalms. Listen here now. Yeah. Okay.
90:16Wayne Gritsky. There's just a bunch of other stats about how good Wayne Gritsky was.
90:20Yeah. Because Brendan felt we didn't fully understand. I mean, we probably don't.
90:24We definitely don't. Well, I definitely don't know. This one went a long way.
90:28Craig is the worst at this. This one went a long way.
90:31Why am I the worst? Because you're saying they lost the trade.
90:35Well. Well, the Kings lost. Objectively. What's the point?
90:37What's the point of playing sports to win a ring?
90:40Fair. So Wayne Gritsky played like 20 seasons. If you look at if you just took the last 20.
90:46MVPs in hockey, like the last 20 seasons, if you just took the MVP from each of those seasons, Wayne Gritsky had
90:52more points in his 20 seasons than those MVPs combined.
90:55Wow. Literally, his entire career was better than the last 20 best person in hockey.
90:59That's crazy. So he's literally basically, he's just the MVP every single year statistically.
91:03He averaged the MVP season. He's better than that, Craig.
91:06He's better than the MVP every single year. Superior to the MVP.
91:09Wayne Gritsky. I mean, more multi-point games than games with no points at all.
91:13Uh, this one is other if you other than one player, Wayne Gritsky scored 2000 points faster than every NHL player scored 1200 points.
91:20Wow. The only person in the middle is Mario Lemieux.
91:23But other than Mario Lemieux, Gritsky got to 2000 faster than a name.
91:26Well, he's got to 1200. He was basically working twice as fast as everybody else in the history.
91:31Yes. Hockey, which similarly, Wayne Gritsky is obviously the fastest player to 1000 points in hockey.
91:36But he, the second fastest to 1000 points is also Wayne Gritsky going from 1000 to 2000.
91:41Wow. Which is fucking nuts. These are Jerry Rice ass stats.
91:44Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the Kings, I don't know anything.
91:46Did the Kings just not do a good job building around him?
91:50Or did they just like lose in the playoffs?
91:52They didn't have any ice in LA. I wish someone had done a documentary on this that we could like dive into.
91:59That would be, that would be helpful. Did the Kings fail him?
92:02They must have. Dude, some of these are. They must have.
92:05So Wayne Gritsky is the only player to ever have 200 points in a season.
92:09And he did it four times. Jerry Rice. Yeah.
92:12So there's a lot. Yeah. Great. He's pretty good.
92:15The Jerry Rice. Here's what I want. It's like so much.
92:18It's, it's, you know, exponentially better than even the second best player.
92:21I want someone to explain to me why Wayne Gritsky was so good.
92:25Jerry West. Sorry, Jerry. This is what I was talking about.
92:28Also at the forefront of like, you know, the West Coast offense.
92:31And it was part of that. He was also like a really hard worker, but like really detailed.
92:36But it was also like Bill Walsh and everything happening around the Niners.
92:40I want someone to explain to me how Wayne Gritsky was this much better than everybody else who's ever lived.
92:46I don't understand why. Because I didn't realize that he's not actually that big.
92:50Yeah. He's like six foot, six one. Yeah. That was the thing.
92:53He was small. It was like a, it was a problem.
92:56It's like a messy situation. Kind of. Can I get a, can I get a Wayne Gritsky was a problem cut up?
93:02I'd love to see that. Oh my God. Did you see Darren Peterson?
93:06The, the, the, the second pick in the draft.
93:09Yeah. He went to the jazz. And they were like, yeah.
93:12Yeah. So like the coaches told me on defense, they want me to watch this, this football player, this old football player.
93:18Like on the Ravens. He was on the Ravens.
93:21I don't remember his name. They're like Ray Lewis.
93:23He's like, no. He eventually got there and was like, I think.
93:26Ed Reed. Ed Reed. And I need someone to make a cut up of that into just Ed Reed highlights over like some 2000s rap song.
93:34That was humbling, but also actually that is how we should play defense.
93:37And then I started watching Ed Reed videos. But yeah, should we have a Wayne Gretzky is a problem video or should we have an Ed Reed?
93:45I want to see Wayne Gretzky was a problem.
93:48Wayne Gretzky was a problem. I'm fascinated by the Wayne Gretzkys of sports.
93:51It's just insane. Like Heifetz said, how is he so much better?
93:55Well, now that we don't know hurling, you know what the other sport we can have people email in?
94:00I think hurling now that we've gone there. Do you guys disagree?
94:04The sport we understand the least is cricket. Yeah.
94:06So if someone wants to tell us about cricket, I would also hear about the Wayne Gretzky of cricket.
94:11Someone wants to explain that. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, DK.
94:14Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Cam. Thank you, Austin.
94:17Thank you, Nikhil. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Abu.
94:19Thank you, everyone for listening. Thank you to the seven, all seven of you for sending in your rankings.
94:25We're also next episode, DK, we're going to do movie club.
94:28We're going to do Transformers. You have to watch it.
94:31And we're going to do the Transformers review. Okay.
94:33And so we're going to do it. Thank you, Lord.
94:36Lord. Millennial Bangers continues today. I will be offering you, we're going back a little earlier, a 2006 vintage.
94:41This is the 20 year anniversary of a song called Every Time We Touch by Cascada.
94:46Get the fuck out, you dog. Who, look, let me tell you something about this.
94:50I don't know that off the top of my head.
94:53Sailor. Toss it on Spotify. I'm so upset that we work at Spotify and we can't play the songs.
94:58I'm tone deaf. So I think that I am transforming.
95:01I'm going to transform the product. Every time we touch, I get this feeling.
95:05Yeah. I mean. I feel alive. Yeah. Yeah. It's something like that.
95:09Here's the thing about Cascada. This song came out in 06.
95:12I don't know who Cascada is. Never heard of that person.
95:15I don't know if it's a person or a band.
95:18I think it's a blonde woman. Pseudonym. Yeah. It's funny that this song was so good and was such a banger and
95:24is the ultimate head bang song from this era.
95:27It's fucking just rips. You can't help but get sucked into it.
95:30I can't. I don't know who this person is.
95:32It's a dance music trio from Germany. What? I thought it was a blonde lady.
95:37That's crazy. Every time we touch, there's a song by German dance trio Cascada or Cascada or whatever.
95:42There's a high level of song that like. Euro dance.
95:45There's a level of song I dare you to like.
95:47Put this song on and you will run through a wall.
95:51I mean, I'm sure I know it. I'm sure I recognize it.
95:54Some songs. It starts with a breathy female voice going, I still hear your voice.
95:58And you're like, oh, let's go. Let's go. It's so good.
96:01They also have one other song called Evacuate the Dance Floor from 2009.
96:05Oh, I know that song. Also fucking good. Yeah, that song I'm very aware of.
96:09Now I'm trying to remember the one. Evacuate the dance floor.
96:12Do the sound. Stop. This beat is killing me.
96:15That was a big song. That one I know of.
96:18But the other one was bigger. The other. It was.
96:21Every time we touch was truly huge. I mean, I definitely know the other one, but the Evacuate the Dance Floor means more.
96:27I'm surprised you don't know every time we touch because you were still, you know, living life.
96:32I was still in the thick of it. Were you traveling Europe at this time?
96:36I was. This wasn't in your underground. I probably heard it in the Krakow like dance club that I was in at the time.
96:43You're in Ruins Bars in Hungary. Can you play the chorus to yourself so you familiarize yourself with this?
96:48I need you to hear the chorus. Yeah, you need to play it.
96:52Okay, hold on. Go to like second 22. Start there.
96:55But for the record, it is a blonde woman perhaps as the lead of this group.
96:59I don't know who it is, though. Who is this woman?
97:03Who is she? Who is she? Cascada. Natalie Horler.
97:05Nat. Nat. She's only 44 right now. All right.
97:08I'm hearing it. I definitely know the song. I'm aware of the song.
97:11Get ready. DK's head's going to start. Oh, no.
97:14I'm already in. I'm there, Craig. I definitely recognize this.
97:17Yeah. Yeah. They don't do them like that. We're not doing that anymore.
97:20We're not making songs like that right now. You know what I mean?
97:24It's simple. Yeah. Look, the beat is killing her.
97:27It's too good. Do you have a specific memory of this song, Craig?
97:30Every time we touch? Yeah. We used to do a thing in high school called lip sync.
97:35Oh, yeah. Yeah. Where each class puts on a 10-minute lip sync performance.
97:39Lip sync battle. In front of 500 people. And you do like, it's like little skits.
97:43One minute skits. And this was one of them.
97:46It's just one of those songs that like, no one talks about.
97:49And every time it comes on, people are like, fuck yeah.
97:52This song? No one would ever be like, oh, my top 10 song every time we touch.
97:57And the second it comes on, everybody knows it.
98:00Jumping up and down, sweaty in a bar. It's great.
98:03Craig, in 2010, I'm seeing this from Wikipedia. In 2010 and again in 2014, Cascada's music was second most downloaded in the dance category.
98:09Only after David Guetta, who I think you did last week.
98:12Yeah. I mean, he solved racism. So, I mean, that's no harm there.
98:16He did. Second's an honor. Anyway, shouts out Cascada and Natalie Horler.
98:20Shout out Nat. She really fucking did it in the aughts.
98:23She did it. Good for her. Good for that.
98:25Cascada? It's Spanish for waterfall, apparently, according to what I'm reading here.
98:29That's one of those where it's probably Cascada in a different language, but it's Cascada.
98:33It's got to be Cascada. You can say it however you want.
98:36I'm fine with that. Almond. We'll be back next episode with another millennial banger.
98:40I got a couple in the holster I'm excited to get into.
98:44Goodbye, everyone. Must be 21 plus and present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus
98:50and present in D.C., Kentucky, or Wyoming. Gambling problem?
98:52Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland.
98:57Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY in New York.
99:04For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods.
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