0:00For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.
0:03Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.
0:06Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.
0:14If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required.
0:17Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.
0:24Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur.
0:29Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine.
0:36Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today.
0:38Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TremphayaRadio.com. For adults with Crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis symptoms, every choice matters.
0:44Tremphaya offers self-injection or intravenous infusion from the start.
0:46Tremphaya is administered as injections under the skin or infusions through a vein every four weeks, followed by injections under the skin every four or eight weeks.
0:54If your doctor decides that you can self-inject Tremphaya, proper training is required.
0:58Tremphaya is a prescription medicine used to treat adults with moderately to severely active Crohn's disease and adults with moderately to severely active ulcerative colitis.
1:05Serious allergic reactions, increased risk of infections or lower ability to fight them, and liver problems may occur.
1:10Before treatment, get checked for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, or need a vaccine.
1:16Explore what's possible. Ask your doctor about Tremphaya today.
1:19Call 1-800-526-7736 to learn more or visit TremphayaRadio.com. For your fantasy football show, my name is Danny Heifetz, and I'm joined by
1:25Danny Kelly and Craig Horlbeck, and today we are ranking tight ends.
1:28We're putting them in tiers, giving you some sleepers.
1:31But first, we have a quick announcement. We mentioned last week that we had an announcement, and now we can tell you.
1:37Our next live show is coming up next month.
1:40We are going to be in Los Angeles on August 27th, which is a Thursday.
1:44So Thursday, August 27th at the Fonda Theater in Los Angeles, which, Craig, that's Hollywood, baby.
1:48We're official now. It's Hollywood. Right in the middle of Hollywood.
1:52We're going full Hollywood. Thirsty Thursday. We'll be there.
1:54Special guest. Just kidding. Probably not. It'll be just a place.
1:57But it'll be really fun, and you can get tickets soon.
2:00Heifetz, what's the ticket situation again? Let them know.
2:03DK, do you know when tickets go on sale?
2:05I bet you don't. I don't. I'm just here to hang out.
2:09You're just the passenger princess. He just gets in the Uber, and the Uber drives him wherever it takes him.
2:15That's pretty much true. Tickets go on sale this Wednesday, July 15th.
2:18Well, we're recording this July 9th, full disclosure. But you're hearing this next week.
2:22So tickets go on sale July 15th at noon Pacific time.
2:25And we're using Pacific time because it's in the Pacific time zone.
2:28So noon Pacific. And you can get all the details at theringer.com slash events.
2:32So theringer.com slash events. Why you said Pacific time?
2:35Because I want to. Because he just can't help him.
2:38I know I can't. I cannot live with the idea that he bristles.
2:41It bothers me. That's the idea of using Pacific time.
2:44I do. It does. I don't live there. It's annoying.
2:47The show's in LA. You didn't have to say noon PT.
2:50We're saying PT because we'll be on the West Coast.
2:53No, I did. Everyone on the East Coast is like, thank you for the solidarity I represent.
2:58Anyway. Yeah. So theringer.com slash events. Tickets will be out there at noon Pacific on July 15th.
3:03And the show is Thursday, August 27th. All the details are in the episode description.
3:07And again, everything is at theringer.com slash events. So check it out there.
3:11And we do recommend getting the tickets read at noon Pacific if you want to make sure you can go.
3:16So we'll see you there. With that said, we're going to get into tight end rankings.
3:21What's so funny, DK? What's so funny? Your time zone thing is just funny to me.
3:25You have an obsession. I'm sorry. I've been radicalized, but you're calling one.
3:29Saying noon PT is fine. That's normal. But then you haven't qualified while you said PT is fucking weird.
3:34You don't need to do that. I've been radicalized ever since you guys started just calling the first kickoff of the day, the morning games.
3:41It's really radicalized me. That's all I'll say. Again, we've lived on the Pacific time zone our whole life.
3:47Okay. I know. And I live in the East Coast time.
3:50I've lived all 43 of my years over here, pal.
3:53Everything I do for work, I have to convert everything to West Coast time in my head.
3:58And I sometimes, it's just like, okay, I convert it.
4:00And that's fine. But when I say it out loud, I always feel dumb.
4:04So it's fine. That's it. Okay. We can move on.
4:07Yeah, we can. I will say. Tight end rewards.
4:10I enjoy it. We're going to do tight ends, sleepers, tears, fears.
4:13But stick around at the end of the episode.
4:16We will be unveiling the first four of the official hot quarterback rankings of the top 16.
4:21We're doing 16 to 13 today. So that's after the tight end conversation.
4:24The hot is 16 to 13. Also, Craig's Millennial Bangers series continues, correct?
4:28Of course. Hell yeah. So I want to talk about tight ends today.
4:32And I wanted to just a quick note on why we do tears.
4:35Because we're going to go through rankings, but we're really going to talk about them in tiers.
4:40And it's really simple. It's just like when you're doing a draft, rankings are cool and easier for us to make.
4:46But realistically, rankings are kind of a flawed thing when you get into the middle of your draft.
4:51And you're like, well, they have this guy 60th and this other guy 61st.
4:55And it's like, well, we wish we could see your team.
4:58And so the tiers kind of allow you to track supply and demand as you go.
5:03Because if you see there's one guy left in a tight end tier you liked and five guys left in a receiver
5:09tier you like, you should probably take the tight end even if he's two spots below the receiver we ranked.
5:15And so it just helps you. And it just helps.
5:17I think you'll hear us as we go. It helps you figure out how you really feel about people as being able to bucket them.
5:25So it's just honestly the most important exercise that you could do is just tiering people in these positions before your draft.
5:31Do you guys agree? If you could tell people to give one thing that actually required some time and effort before your
5:37draft, I would actually say it's tiering the positions and players.
5:40Yeah, absolutely. Because like as you said, it helps you if one tier, say your receiver tier is almost over and you've
5:46got like eight guys in your running back tier, you definitely want to focus on the receiver there just because you don't
5:53want to fall off into that next tier. So it's just a construct to help you when you're drafting get the best
5:59value for what you see as the players that serve in positions.
6:02I spend so much time thinking about which sleeper tight end to draft every year.
6:06They really are the quagmire of fantasy football. The awkward stepchild.
6:10You don't know who. Every year I'm like, which guy am I going to take in the middle rounds that's going to pop?
6:16And it usually just doesn't matter. And they all end up scoring eight fantasy points per game other than like the top two.
6:23That really is how it goes with tight ends.
6:25I'm always like, I'm going to be the guy who round eight, I'm taking Hunter Henry this year.
6:30He's going to pop. They all just average eight points per game.
6:34The difference between tight ends last year, the difference between tight end six, which was Kyle Pitts and tight end 17, which
6:40was Dalton Schultz is like one and a half points per game.
6:43Totally. And I think this year specifically. So we talked about quarterbacks last episode with the memento tattoos and about how quarterbacks
6:49a little bit deeper now and maybe late round quarterback is back.
6:53Over the last like three or four years, my strategy has kind of been like get one of the elite quarterbacks, wait on tight end.
7:00Because I kind of think you can't get both.
7:02You know, you really want to fill up on running backs and wide receivers in your first like four rounds.
7:08So I think getting like a Josh Allen and a Brock Bowers is hard to do while filling out the rest of your roster.
7:15But I think this year, like I said, usually I would rather get that elite quarterback and wait on tight end.
7:21This year, I think I'm going to switch that.
7:23I actually think getting Brock Bowers or Trey McBride in the first three rounds and then waiting on quarterback is going to
7:30be my move heading into this year. Because I do think tight end is very young.
7:34I think it's very hard to predict this year.
7:37I'm not in. I think outside of Bowers and McBride, you don't really know.
7:41So I and with quarterback, I think you can go 12, 13, 14 deep and feel pretty confident.
7:46So I think this year, do you agree that early tight end and late quarterback is a strategy this year you like?
7:52Probably. I have mixed emotions because I love Brock Bowers.
7:55I'm a little scared of how much I love Brock Bowers.
7:58I feel like if he falls to me, I want Brock Bowers.
8:01But then if he doesn't, I love Trey McBride, but I'm scared of taking a Cardinals player that I think Cardinals would
8:08be the worst team in the NFL. And I'm really hesitant of the middle tight ends.
8:12I kind of feel like if I don't get Brock Bowers, I actually am pretty.
8:16I'm actually pretty content to wait till the end for a tight end.
8:20And because of what DK just said. Because it's flat.
8:23Yeah. Scott Barrett does a great job. Fantasy Points is, I mean, it's a website called Fantasy Points, but they also write about Fantasy Points.
8:30But Scott Barrett does this great distribution of tight ends.
8:33And sometimes we're guilty of this, of using shorthand for he was the ninth best tight end.
8:38But that doesn't matter. What matters is how many points they score for you.
8:42And if they were on a graph, you couldn't distinguish the ninth tight end from the 26th tight end very well.
8:48It's like you kind of throw in a dart.
8:50And even that's an average, assuming you played them in some random spike week they had in week four.
8:55And if you didn't, then the whole thing's a mess anyway.
8:59So I don't think there's a huge gap. So I think to create your point, Craig, if you don't get an elite one, I'm okay waiting.
9:06And I'm curious where you guys feel that cutoff is because we can go through it.
9:10But that's the part that I'm really interested in.
9:13When is the point where you're like, I don't even care anymore.
9:16There's no difference to me between these guys and the guys who can get eight tight ends later.
9:22Well, they could be even wider this year to have.
9:24It's because everybody's sort of following this trend where you have more tight ends on the field.
9:29And tight ends are a bigger part of your offense.
9:32Yeah. So you could even have more. Like, it's just playing whack-a-ball every week, I feel like.
9:37It's why I think Bowers and McBride, I think I'm going to try to get one of those guys this year.
9:43And I'll wait. And I'll take Brock Purdy or Justin Herbert or something.
9:46And it is the defining. It's probably the defining X's and O's real-life football strategy story.
9:51Entering this season, too. The two tight ends. Yeah.
9:54Two tight ends. Even three tight ends. You know, without going too deep into it, basically, it was the most two tight
10:00end sets we've had in decades and decades. And multiple tight end sets are just completely back.
10:05And ironically, it was Sean McVay who really started this last year because Sean McVay sent multiple tight ends off the field.
10:11Like, when Sean McVay first started with the Rams, it was all three receiver sets.
10:15Everything looks the same. Right. And in a full way, basically, they came back to having more tight ends around the field.
10:21But it almost makes it harder to figure out who to play sometimes.
10:25It's kind of like whack-a-mole. So, yeah. It is funny.
10:28That is a funny point. Heifetz McVay, basically, well, he wasn't the only one, but he was a big part.
10:33They did three receiver sets almost all the time.
10:36That was like all they did. It was 98% of the time in 2017.
10:40And they were in part, you know, part of the reason that teams started shifting to smaller defenses.
10:45You get more fast linebackers. You get more safeties on the field to combat these three receiver sets.
10:50And then he's like, I actually got you a switch.
10:53I'm going to go back to doing three tight ends.
10:56I'm going to run it down your throat. All this stuff.
10:59Basically, we're going to counter all your small defenses.
11:01You stay ahead of the curve. You set the trend and then you zag against it.
11:06Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of, it's Belichickian. So, I don't know why, but that bothered me.
11:11Belichickian. Belichick. Belichickian. It didn't sound right. It is spelled Belichick.
11:14Belichick. Do you think that it was pronounced that way?
11:16And then they just stopped saying it that way because it's like football.
11:20They can't say Belichick. I bet it is Belichick.
11:23Yeah. Is that Jordan Hudson? She's the Belichick? Jordan and Belichick.
11:26Jordan Belichick. She's Belichick. Jordan Belichick. That's going to be her name?
11:29I don't know. Are they going to get married?
11:32That's your name? Let's get to the tight end tiers.
11:35And again, the way this loosely works is a tier is, for better or worse, kind of, you could move them around
11:41in any order and you wouldn't be, it wouldn't be crazy.
11:44But outside the tiers, it'd be a little crazier.
11:47So tier one, it's a good example of this, which is we have Brock Bowers first for the Raiders and then Trey McBride for the Cardinals second.
11:54We both have them as like top 25 players.
11:57You can, you know, we'll see exactly where we end up slotting them as the season goes.
12:02But DK, I've been very high on Brock Bowers.
12:04I'm a little worried. I'm too high on Brock Bowers.
12:07But how do you feel about Bowers this year?
12:09Do you think he's like definitively the number one Raiders tight end?
12:13Well, I mean, I think NFL tight end. I don't know if definitively, because it is funny looking back at what McBride did, Trey McBride did last year.
12:21It was absolutely absurd. The numbers that he put up.
12:24I just think we're kind of projecting that he's not going to maybe be able to hit quite those highs this next
12:30year with a new offense, new offensive coordinator, potentially more running from that offense, all that stuff.
12:35So I think Bowers to start with Clint Kubiak calling him a football robot from heaven feels good.
12:40Feels like a good right. Like a first thing that you really want the head coach to say when he's coming in and installing a new offense.
12:47He's a football robot from heaven. Like imagine if Bill Simmons was like, DK is a podcasting robot from heaven.
12:53I feel pretty good about myself. I feel like I'll be on a lot of pods if that's the case.
12:59CR is kind of a podcast. Chris Ryan is the podcast robot.
13:02Or Van, maybe. You know, he's just really versatile.
13:05But yeah, so I think I am both simultaneously very excited about Brock Bowers and also just a little wary about calling
13:11him the new JSN and the Kubiak. Like Kubiak's new JSN is kind of like the bull case for.
13:16Who's saying that? Heifetz, you've said it a few times.
13:19It is fun to think about. Said it the last few episodes.
13:22Realistically, like he's not. He's a tight end. He's not a receiver.
13:26He's not going to be used in the same way that JSN is used.
13:30JSN ran the vast majority of his routes from the outside last year.
13:34He only ran 17% of his routes from the slot last year.
13:37Bowers is at almost 60% last year. It's just a different proposition.
13:40That being said, I do think he can be a focal point in this offense, especially if you look at the Raiders receivers.
13:47Like the Raiders receivers, you just don't have anyone with any star power.
13:51No one's going to be, you know, designing their defensive structure around.
13:54Any of these receivers week in and week out.
13:56It's going to be, how do we stop Bowers?
13:59And I think Kubiak is smart enough to know Bowers is their top playmaker and he's going to make a big part of the offense.
14:06Move the guy around. You're going to have Michael Mayer be sort of the inline tight end and then Bowers can do a little bit of everything.
14:14But calling him the JSN of the offense is, I think, a little misleading because Bowers is not being utilized on deep
14:20routes nearly as much or probably can't be. And so it's a little bit different.
14:24But all that being said, I'm still really excited about Bowers.
14:27I'm glad you're checking me on this, DK, because I think you're right that like I probably have been saying that as a shorthand too much.
14:35I don't mean that Brock Bowers will literally be used as Jackson Smith and Jigba.
14:39Like he's not the same player. You're right. He won't be the same depths of routes and all that stuff.
14:45What I mean is that Clint Kubiak will make the point of the Raiders passing game to get the football to Brock Bowers.
14:51It would be in a different mechanism. But the point of the Seahawks passing game was basically to get the ball to Jackson Smith and Jigba.
14:58And that's what I'm trying to say is that the reason I like Brock Bowers so much is I really do think
15:05the point of half of the Raiders dropbacks will be just get Brock the football.
15:09God, I trust him to do that. It will look differently, but I think it will also be.
15:14I mean, Brock Bowers is rookie year. I will never forget him just burning Trent McDuffie as straight up, not from in
15:20line as a receiver outlet wide burning Trent McDuffie was a first team all pro cornerback who just got traded for first
15:27round pick to the Rams just as a tight end.
15:29That's kind of what we always talk about, but never really happens.
15:33I think he's a great player. He'll never forget that.
15:36He'll never forget that. Bowers? I'll be on my death back talking about it.
15:40Bowers had 153 targets as a rookie. Dude, I think I hear you guys about being hesitant.
15:44Don't overthink this. His rookie year, Brock Bowers set the tight ends catch record by like 20 catches.
15:49He had his rookie year. This was just two years ago.
15:53112 catches, 1,100 yards as a fucking rookie tight end.
15:55On the Raiders, he was catching passes from Gardner Minshew and Aiden O'Connell.
15:59That was the situation two years ago, and he had 112 catches, 1,100 yards and five touchdowns.
16:04Saying Brock Bowers had the most catches ever as a rookie for a tight end is underselling it because he had the
16:10second most catches for any, but for any rookie ever, including receivers, the only rookie who's had more catches than Brock Bowers in their rookie year is Pukitikua.
16:18Like of all players. We have Clint Kubiak. We have what we feel like is a very dependable Kirk Cousins, maybe Mendoza
16:24eventually, which I think we have to know that is a few notches above what the Raiders have been dealing with the past two seasons.
16:31Like this is rock solid. Just take him. Don't think about it.
16:35So just do it. I agree. I feel that way strongly.
16:38My fear is Trey. So Trey McBride, who I mean, won the crutch Ruppel crown basically at tight end last year, him
16:44as targets and catches and yards and touchdowns. He was the number one.
16:48He had almost a hundred more points than the next closest tight end last year in half PBR.
16:53That's the fear. He had almost a hundred more points.
16:56There was a lot of tight end injuries last year, though, to be clear.
17:00I think that was part of it. He played 17 games.
17:03Including Brock Bowers. Yeah. Heifetz, continue. I don't know if you want to get into McBride, but the numbers last year are
17:09pretty crazy, and it's hard to see him kind of recreating that, especially in a new offense.
17:14I think the biggest thing is last year, the Cardinals led the NFL in pass rate.
17:18They had 38 passes a game. And Michael Fleur comes from Arizona or comes to Arizona from L.A.
17:23And he was with the Rams with Matt Stafford.
17:26The Rams had a 57% pass rate. So, you know, that's like way that's something like 20 something in the league.
17:32It's a much more balanced type offense. I think philosophically, they're going to try to run the ball.
17:37They drafted a running back with a third pick.
17:40So, I just think the environment is going to change dramatically for McBride, which sucks.
17:44They also are in a contract thing with Jacoby Brissett.
17:47He wants more money. And he's like, I was the starter.
17:50You need to pay me. And they're like, well, you went 1-11, so we don't want to.
17:55And we'll see how that goes. If Carson Beck is quarterback, it's going to be a depressing.
17:59Or it's Gardner Minshew, a knee injury. Or, yeah, Carson Beck.
18:03I think Carson Beck will be playing down the stretch.
18:05That's the other issue with Trey McBride, where it's like if Fernando Mendoza is playing, I trust Fernando Mendoza, quarterback for the
18:12Raiders in December, or Kirk Cousins more than I trust the Cardinals maybe putting in Carson Beck, which maybe there's a chance that Trey McBride is really good.
18:20And then you're in your fantasy playoffs and Carson Beck is throwing to Trey McBride because the Cardinals are tanking and want to see how Carson Beck does.
18:27And that would also suck, which I think that's a perfectly fine tiebreaker.
18:31But these are the top two tight ends. And, you know, that's...
18:35I don't really... It's kind of where we slot them among skill players.
18:38There's not really a conversation about that. It's just where do you take them?
18:42I think you could go either way. I think you'd probably kick yourself more if the Cardinals are terrible and Trey McBride
18:48is struggling and you're watching Brock Bowers catch passes from Kirk Cousins in the Kubiak offense.
18:53And you're like, why didn't I just do that?
18:56Yeah. And the Cardinals, I do agree. They brought in Isaac Sayumolo, the guard.
18:59They drafted a guard. They drafted Jeremiah Love. They brought in Tyler Algier.
19:03Like, this team is, I feel like, signaling that they want to run the ball more and be more balanced.
19:09Also, their schedule's nuts. The first, like, eight games...
19:11I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It just could be a real mess on that team.
19:16But sometimes you have to look through that and it's not like the Cardinals have been great the last three seasons and Trey McBride's been pretty damn good.
19:24But... And he's way better with Brissette than he was with Kyler Murray, which is from a touchdown perspective.
19:29He had seven touchdowns in 39 games with Kyler Murray and he had 10 in 12 games.
19:34With Jacoby Brissette. So, as we get closer to this season, we'll figure out where exactly we put these guys.
19:39But I feel like Brock Bowers is going to be the middle of the second round, right?
19:44And it's going to be a question of, like, do you take...
19:48If not, higher. Brock Bowers or, you know, Saquon, Nico Collins, Omerion Hampton, these guys, Ashton Jenty.
19:52Like, you know, I think that's the question. Yeah, it's like, if you want to draft a pass catcher, which one...
19:58Where do you draw the line on wide receivers before you take Brock Bowers?
20:02I just think the same... Yeah. Would you take him over Justin Jefferson or CeeDee Lamb or Amonara?
20:07I mean, you're talking about the Kyler Murray not being able to throw touchdown passes thing.
20:12And I'm like, oh, God, maybe I do not want Justin Jefferson and I do want Brock Bowers.
20:17That was my first thought. I was like, oh, man, is that going to carry over?
20:22Don't love that. I think... You're worried about Justin Jefferson with Kyler?
20:25No, not really. But, like, just you saying that in connection with how high do you take Bowers.
20:30I'm like, man, maybe I want Bowers. I think it makes sense that after that tier of guys like Puka, Amonara, CeeDee,
20:36and Justin Jefferson, I think right after that and right before, like, Nico Collins, Drake London, Rasheed Rice, I think Brock Bowers, that's the right spot for him.
20:44Yeah. That's fine. Yeah, that works for me. All right.
20:47The next tier here, we have Tyler Warren for the Colts.
20:50We have Colston Loveland for the Bears. And then we have Tucker Craft for the Packers.
20:55First of all, DK, do you agree with this, that Tyler Warren should be ranked over Colston Loveland?
21:00Hmm. That's... I mean, it's tough. That's a really hard one, I think.
21:03They're so close in my mind. I think Colston Loveland...
21:06It's funny because they had an inverse... They had inverse seasons as rookies, basically.
21:10Tyler Warren started out the gate. It was awesome.
21:13He was averaging nine points a game in the first 10 weeks.
21:16The Colts were on fire. He had a 21% target rate in that stretch.
21:20He had 50 catches for 600 yards and three touchdowns through 10 games.
21:24Sal took him in the ringer league in, like, the sixth round.
21:27A rookie tight end with, like, 60th overall. We were like, you're an idiot.
21:31And then Sal immediately looked like a genius. Yeah.
21:34And, I mean, so he was doing awesome to start the year.
21:37And then things fell apart for the Colts. It wasn't his fault, necessarily, which I think is what makes me bullish on
21:43him going forward, is if they can kind of right the ship offensively.
21:47But because he had a 20% target rate in the second...
21:50From week 11 on, he still had a 20% target rate.
21:53So his target rate only went down 1%. Does that matter if it's Phil Rivers?
21:58What do you do with that if it's Phil Rivers?
22:00I think it does better. He's been coaching local football for five years.
22:04What do we do with the target rate from Phil?
22:07Right. I don't know. But he averaged five points a game.
22:10That's as far as he can throw it. I think that's why Tyler Warren was getting those targets.
22:15I think he's a by-the-dip guy. And I don't have any problem.
22:19By-the-dip. What are you talking about? You're paying up for him, I think.
22:22By the second half struggles, I guess. Whatever. By-the-dip for the third-ranked guy of a rookie.
22:27Okay. Maybe I said that wrong. But anyways, I think if you're...
22:30By the peak. If you prefer Colston Loveland over him, I'm not going to throw up...
22:35I'm not going to put up a stink about that.
22:38Just because I think the way he finished, the way that they utilized him in the offense, Colston Loveland for the Bears, I mean.
22:44The way he was used more vertically downfield as a true number one receiver.
22:48Because Warren was more of a dump-off run-after-catch guy.
22:51And Loveland was running legit receiver routes. So I think if you like that more, I don't fault you.
22:56I just think Warren is going to get a shitload of volume this year.
23:00That's a big thing. I think if I had to split hairs, I would say Warren is a slightly more floor play.
23:06And Loveland is slightly more of a ceiling play.
23:09I think Warren's just a horse out there, you know?
23:12Yeah. And Pittman's gone. It's a client deal. Alec Pierce has got this foot injury.
23:16And the first 10 weeks of the season, Tyler Warren, fourth in routes run at the tight end position.
23:21Fourth in touches per game at the tight end position.
23:24Like, they were just using him so much. He fucking runs in touchdowns.
23:28He can throw the ball. Like... He can punt.
23:30He might be, like, the centerpiece of the passing game for the Colts.
23:34And Loveland, I think there's slightly more uncertainty. It's like a lot of what Loveland did was when Roma Dunze was hurt at the end of last year.
23:42And the offense is going to look... We don't know.
23:45And Caleb Williams is a little bit more volatile.
23:47And with Roma Dunze, Luther Burden, and Colson Loveland, like, we haven't really seen that trio as, you know, and what that's going to look like.
23:55So... But I do think, like, what DK said, Loveland's...
23:58The explosion, the downfield stuff. Like, I think you could have bigger 130-yard games out of Loveland.
24:02But if you want, like, five catches for 68 yards and a touchdown every week, I feel like Tyler Warren's going to get you up.
24:10It's worth mentioning this is the biggest disagreement. I mean, it's freaking July.
24:13We reserve the right to change our minds. But this is, right now, I think, one of the bigger disagreements we have
24:19with, like, consensus or whatever, among people, other people who rank fantasy.
24:23It's just that a lot of people have Colson Loveland third and Tyler Warren fourth.
24:27By a pretty good amount, actually. And I'm surprised by that for a number of reasons that we can get into.
24:33But, I mean, they're going to be tied for their whole careers because Colson Loveland was the 10th pick out of Michigan to the Bears.
24:40And then, you know, Tyler Warren was drafted with the Colts.
24:43It was a great tight end draft. And they were both in...
24:47You know, Tyler Warren immediately delivered. Colson Loveland was great down the stretch.
24:50So they're going to be tied in real life forever.
24:53But it's funny to me to see such a big gap between them.
24:57And I don't totally understand it. But I look at Colson Loveland.
25:00You guys know when you're, like, excited to go to a restaurant or get a sandwich or something?
25:05Or you're walking around and you're, like, excited to go?
25:08And then you turn the corner... You know when you're, like, excited to get a sandwich?
25:13I don't know. I'm just... I'm hungry, man. I don't know.
25:16Where's he going? I am excited to get a sandwich.
25:19You know when you turn the corner and you go...
25:21And you're going somewhere for whatever. And you turn the corner and there was just a giant line.
25:27Yeah. And you're, like, oh, my God. Fuck. Other people at this spot.
25:30Happened to me last night. Dude. What was it?
25:33Where were you going? We were going to go get ice cream at this place called Big Jill, which was, like, a
25:39very normal, like, mom and pop ice cream spot that Liz grew up with.
25:43And then, like, a year ago, somebody, like, it got big on TikTok.
25:47And now you cannot go without waiting for 30 minutes to get fucking ice cream.
25:51Happened to me in Florence on my honeymoon. I won't name the place because it's overrated and I don't want to be mean.
25:57But there's this place that went viral. And we went and we were, like, what the...
26:02No, the Uffizi sucks. Great art. The art's good.
26:05The museum sucks. But anyway, Colston Loveland's how I feel about your Big Chill Ice Cream.
26:09Where I'm, like, on the end of the season, I was, like, man, I can't wait to get this guy.
26:15Colston Loveland is so good. The Bears. Ben Johnson.
26:17I love the coach. I love the quarterback. He's great.
26:20He was amazing down the stretch. And then I, like, turn the corner and I'm, like, he's going 38th ahead of Joe Burrow?
26:27What do you do? I can't... And I'm, like, all right, it's good.
26:30But it's not this good. I feel like you're waiting for a Philly cheesesteak in Philadelphia.
26:35And I'm, like, all right, Pats is not worth a two-hour wait.
26:38Because Colston... I... We can go into it. But fun fact.
26:41The first half for Colston Loveland, do you know where he...
26:44The first eight games of the season, do you know where he ranked among tight ends?
26:4934th. Not even close. 79th. 50th. He was the 50th tight end in the first half.
26:53He had 17 total points in the first eight games of the season.
26:57Yeah. He's a rookie tight end who was a backup.
27:00I know, but he was a popular sleeper. Colston Loveland's drafted about 100th overall.
27:04He was, like, a 10th or 11th round pick.
27:07And if you had him, you almost certainly caught him.
27:09And then someone else picked him up. And then that person got him for the playoffs, which is, like, infuriating.
27:15So, but then down the... Mikael, he makes a good point here, though.
27:19He was hurt. He was nursing a shoulder injury in training camp.
27:22So, that's going to hurt your first half of the year.
27:25I'm not holding it against him. I'm just saying it was a snip-snap year.
27:29The first half, he's... I do remember. Our producer, Nikael, wants to let you know, Heifus, that Colston Loveland missed most of He's like, how dare you, sir?
27:37I'm glad Nikael brought that up. At the combine, he didn't do any combine stuff.
27:41His shoulder was immobilized. He missed the whole OTAs, minicamp, everything.
27:44He was behind. We always talk about how rookies missing that stuff in training camp.
27:49It sets you back on timeline. And you're already drinking from a fire hose.
27:53It really does slow you down. And that is what happened with him.
27:56Especially Ben Johnson offense. Down the stretch, Colston Loveland was fantastic.
27:59But when people have him as a top 40 player, I just feel like at that point, now I'm a little worried
28:06because he was so good down the stretch. He was the second best tight end, basically, from week nine on.
28:11But my thing is, I feel like it's really all these underlying models and projections are over-indexing that Colston Loveland's best three
28:18games were against the worst defenses in the NFL.
28:20He had 55% of Colston Loveland's fantasy points were against the Bengals, the Niners, and the Lions.
28:25The Bengals, the last two games, the Bengals were the worst defense in the league and were the first team to have
28:31two rookie linebackers for a season in 13 years.
28:34They're the worst defense against tight ends in 10 years.
28:37Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the defenses are bad. Couldn't you bell curve this, though?
28:41Couldn't you be like, you can do all that.
28:43And then you could also be like, he was the 10th pick in the draft.
28:47And if you watch him, he looks fucking good.
28:50You could. He's great. Absolutely. He might be Caleb Williams' favorite target.
28:53And Ben Johnson is the coordinator. Yeah. But this is why we do tier.
28:57Yeah, exactly. I'm just saying it seems like everyone else is doing it.
29:01I'm just saying the Niners defense had allowed 30 points entering the fourth quarter to Philip Rivers the week before.
29:07And the Lions were the most injured defense in the NFL.
29:10I'm just saying those are the games. He's great.
29:12Phil was fresh, though. Phil was fresh, though. Well, here's my question.
29:16And to your point, Roman, didn't say it was hurt.
29:18I'm confused why there's a three-round difference between Loveland and Warren.
29:22And we all looked at this and we're like, yeah, they're about even.
29:25And then you check. And I'm like, I don't really see why Colston Loveland should be going 38th, but Tyler Warren should
29:32be going, you know, almost in the sixth or seventh round.
29:35It's the dip that I was talking about. It's the dip.
29:38I completely agree with you. I think Tucker Craft, Colston Loveland, and Tyler Warren should just all be very close to one another.
29:44And they should be later on. They should be going around like 60th, in my opinion.
29:49But I do believe that Loveland belongs in the same tier as Tyler Warren.
29:53Yeah. And that's the thing is I don't, it sucks too.
29:56Because like Colston, I agree with what you said about ceiling.
29:59I could see Colston Loveland and Tyler Warren both being in the Brock Bowers McBride tier next year.
30:04I could see like four truly elite tight ends in the NFL.
30:07Also. I don't know. Just like really high. I think there's a little bit of just like the Bears are cool and
30:14sexy and Caleb Williams and like they had a bunch of cool plays and the Colts are fucking boring.
30:19Colts are lame. They have Daniel Jones and they ended the season with Phillip Rivers and they haven't made a splash in 10 years.
30:26And it's like, yeah, it's the Colts. And it's like, if the Bears, the Bears are the most fun team in the NFL.
30:32Caleb Williams on the Madden cover. Whoa. Oh, there's famous people on the Bills or on the Bears.
30:37Yeah. I think that's a little bit of it.
30:40I just, yeah. I just, I like, I like Colston Loveland.
30:43It's just a long line. That's all. This episode is brought to you by NOS Energy.
30:48You probably know one. You probably know one. Your buddy.
30:51Your sister. Ones who always show up. They're the first to rise.
30:54The last to leave. They always have that little extra something.
30:57And maybe you've got it too. Chevrolet. Together let's drive.
31:00Visit chevy.com slash trucks to explore the lineup. Can we do a little bit on Tucker Craft?
31:05Please. Because I do want to mention him. I do think he belongs in this tier with Loveland and Warren.
31:10Tucker Craft, before he got, he tore his ACL in week nine?
31:14Week eight? Week nine? Played in eight games. Yeah.
31:16Yeah. Was the number two tight end in fantasy.
31:19Was completely, was a huge hit. Like he was a lot of people's sleeper or like, you know, upside pick coming into last year.
31:26And it totally paid off. He was like first in yards per touch.
31:29First in EPA per target. First in yards after the catch.
31:32He was basically George Kittle. And even if you combined him with wide receivers, like the shit he was doing on a
31:39yards per touch, he was like Alec Pierce, Christian Watson, Jamison Williams, and Tucker Craft.
31:43And then he tore his ACL, which is obviously a huge thing.
31:46He tore it midway through the season. He said he expects, he said his conditioning is great.
31:51They always talk about how fast you reach now.
31:54Like in the off season, it's like Brandon Ayuk was running 22 miles an hour.
31:58Tucker Craft, I guess, hit 21 point whatever miles an hour.
32:01And the off season, that's cool. He says he feels great.
32:04His quote, my quads look great. Swelling is minimal to none.
32:07Like no weird pains and aches coming out of my treatment and my training.
32:11So we're really excited to get the ball rolling.
32:14I plan to start in week one with no pitch count.
32:17And the ACL is a huge thing. But if you, if you convince yourself that like it will be okay, man, do I like Tucker Craft.
32:24Like I was talking about my wide receiver upside formula.
32:27I like a lot of what I see with Green Bay.
32:30I like the play caller. I like the quarterback and I like the volume.
32:34Dobbs and wicks are gone. That's 130 targets. It's a little bit more condensed now.
32:38I even think the amount of times that Green Bay threw to Tucker Craft with all those other guys last year was pretty good.
32:45So if he's healthy, I think Tucker Craft is an awesome pick.
32:49What do you make of this DK? I think Tucker Craft could be one of the best tight ends in the NFL.
32:55So with, I want to put that first and that's real life or fantasy in, in real life.
33:00Like the more tattoos he gets, it's like they're powering, they're powering up him.
33:04He is just doing the, the super Mario brothers power up every time he gets a new tattoo.
33:09It's like George Kittle. He is an excellent. Tucker Craft is an excellent locker.
33:13And probably you're right about that, that the gap between what people think of Tucker Craft and how good he is, it's just a real life tight end.
33:21It's very, he's a very, very high up in the rankings tight end.
33:25Real life. And so like, I want that to be sort of how I start this, but I think there is a
33:31little bit of risk with him relative to some of the other guys in this range, just because of the pure volume that we see.
33:38He was a little bit dependent on touchdowns and big plays.
33:41He had a couple of these plays where he, I can't remember exactly, but he would get free and run for like 70 yards.
33:48I think some of those were boosting his play early on.
33:51He only averaged four catches per game, but they're boosting his play because he's good.
33:55Like, right. I know. But the point is like, how repeatable is that?
33:59I don't know. That's the question. I think maybe if he is George Kittle, then yes, it's pretty repeatable.
34:04Well, it's, and it's also scheme related, which I think could be repeatable to succeed.
34:08Yeah. I don't, you're, you're both. I don't doubt him necessarily.
34:12I just think he was, he was like objectively more reliant on big plays last year and touchdowns.
34:17And so that makes me a little bit nervous, but that doesn't mean I don't think he can do it going forward either.
34:23I think he's just awesome. He might also just be really awesome.
34:27So Tucker craft. He reminds me of a couple of players entering this season and it's like TJ Hockinson and Sam Laporta.
34:33And I say Sam Laporta, not stylistic. I mean, Tucker, perhaps a better tight end probably in real life than Sam Laporta.
34:39Sam Laporta is not a great blocker. Tucker craft is, but it reminds me of Sam Laporta's rookie year.
34:44He had like 900 yards and 10 touchdowns. And it was like, you can kind of have the exact same season and
34:51catches yards and have half the touchdowns by luck.
34:53And then everyone's really mad that they drafted you.
34:56What we always say about quarterbacks were like Baker was Baker Mayfield's going to like the six quarterback last year.
35:01And we're like, he's not going to throw 40 touchdowns again.
35:05That's not going to happen. And then he didn't.
35:07And Tucker craft to your point, DK, my fear is Tucker craft could have a perfect ACL recovery.
35:12Like it's the Fania bell. Who's like the best injury person out there was saying that Tucker craft is right in that
35:18window for an ACL recovery where he might probably be.
35:21If everything stays to the schedule, Tucker craft can be fully healed for the season.
35:25She wrote a great article that he's been about that.
35:28My issue is that Tucker craft could have the same season with the same catches, same yards, same usage in the offense, everything.
35:35But Jane Reed doesn't like break his, get a Jones fracture and break his collarbone two weeks into the season.
35:40And then Tucker craft just has the same year, but he has five touchdowns on the whole year instead of like being on pace for 13.
35:48And then you're kind of mad that you took him over.
35:51I don't know, Jaden Daniels. And that's my issue with Tucker craft.
35:54Cause I think you're both right. He's exactly that kind of player, but you're taking on the risk that there's any decrease
36:01in athleticism off the ACL, which even if it doesn't present immediately, it could develop a November and December, which sometimes annoying,
36:07but you're also just like, all right, but what if he doesn't have the touchdown explosiveness, but it's the same player otherwise.
36:13Yeah. I think he's the last quarterback. He's the last tight end where I'm truly like, I don't really have a lot
36:19of notes about like this team or this environment.
36:22And I feel like he is, if he's healthy, he's relatively safe.
36:25If Tucker craft never tore his ACL and did in roughly stayed on a similar pace, the rest of the season, where would we rank him?
36:33He'd be in tier one. If Tyler, if Tucker craft had like a thousand yards and 12 touchdowns, he'd be.
36:38The touchdowns came down. Let's say he'd start, he started with 500 yards at six and then he had another 500 yards and then had like two more.
36:46So if he had a thousand yards and eight touchdowns, I think he'd be in tier one.
36:51Yeah. That's the question. He tore his ACL. Brock Bowers has never had a thousand yards and eight touchdowns.
36:56Like, well, I mean, that's about as good as it gets for a tight end.
37:01I guess sometimes they can get higher in the touchdown mark, but yeah, I think he would be above Loveland and Warren and fringe with McBride and Bowers.
37:09I think that, yeah, this is the right ranking.
37:11As we get closer to this. I don't know.
37:14He's going right now around like Brian Thomas and Carnell Tate.
37:17Like, I don't know. That feels like a good pick to me.
37:20And I think it's an interesting point because this is the important cutoff is these top two tiers.
37:25And then traditionally, the next group of players is like the worst bet in fantasy is like the tier three tight ends.
37:31That is like eyeball tested. It's also actually like if you look at analytics and stats, JG Zachariasen did a great podcast
37:38last year about this like tight end dead zone, which is trying to fill out the back of the top 10, like the seventh, eighth, ninth tight end.
37:46It's like someone's got to sit. Someone's got to be eighth.
37:49And it's always, it's the Kyle Pitts tier. It's what it is.
37:52It's usually David Njoku, Kyle Pitts and Evan Ingram.
37:55And then Evan Ingram and Joku are cooked. So now it's Kyle Pitts.
37:58We have Harold Fannin as on the Browns as the sixth tight end.
38:02Kyle Pitts is the seventh tight end and Sam Laporte is the eighth tight end.
38:06And it's weird because all of these guys all had unbelievable rookie seasons as tight ends.
38:11Harold Fannin only had a rookie season. Kyle Pitts has not really been the same since.
38:15And then the two games last year, they're amazing.
38:18Sam Laporte had an amazing rookie year and then not a great one.
38:22And we're all, they're all kind of similar. And like, what if they just do the rookie year again?
38:27But traditionally, this has been a very bad bucket of player.
38:30Yes. And I think maybe I completely agree. Is this the year we finally have more good tight ends?
38:35So what do we do with Kyle Pitts? Let's just fucking get to it.
38:39What do we do with this motherfucker? He's the seventh tight end.
38:43What are we, what are we doing with him?
38:45I think him being the tight end seven feels like a value.
38:49Even though I know what every year we get excited about Kyle Pitts, like based on what he did last year.
38:55Feels exactly right to me. It, it, I feel like he has more upside than what we're giving him credit for, I guess.
39:01But the question is, who's the quarterback and how does the offense work?
39:05Um, this Kevin Stefanski is the new coach there.
39:07Is it going to be a Tua or is it going to be Penix?
39:11There's a lot of question marks there, but like last year he averaged seven targets a game, which was 30, average five
39:18targets a game or receptions a game, which was third and 54 receiving yards a game, which was like, he was a top five tight end.
39:25His averages though. Don't he was Kyle Pitts and Colston Loveland were just feet in the freezer, head in the oven.
39:31And you were calling it averages room temperature. But for Colston Loveland, it was injury in the bears offense coming together.
39:37And for the Falcons, it was court. Michael Penix as the quarterback for the Falcons for the first three months, Kyle Pitts was literally the 20th tight end.
39:45Kyle Pitts was basically worse than useless. And then once Kirk Cousins came in, Kyle Pitts was better than Colston Loveland.
39:51Kyle Pitts was the second tight end only to trade McBride once Kirk Cousins came in.
39:55And so the question to me is who plays?
39:58If it's Tua, how much of Tua can replicate what Kirk Cousins did, even though it's a different offense, it's not exactly
40:04the same, but it really comes down to this DK to cut the matter to the bone.
40:09We have Kyle Pitts ranked right now 78th. Are you going to take him there or not?
40:14I feel like you won't. Let me add this.
40:16Let me add this. Taking all personal bias out of it?
40:19Sure. No, into it. It's your team. You're picking.
40:22No one's going to see. What are you doing in private?
40:25Are you going to take him or not? In the privacy of your own home?
40:29Privacy of your own home. When you're sitting on the toilet, drafting on your phone, what are you going to do?
40:35Making sure I'm not attached to Bluetooth anywhere in the house.
40:38Yes, I'm going to make sure. I'm probably not going to draft Kyle Pitts just because of the quarterback situation.
40:44How far does he have to fall to take him?
40:47I don't know. I mean, I would take him above everybody.
40:50A round or two. I would take him above everybody in that next year.
40:54But I want to add one thing about Heifetz's point, the head in the freezer, foot in the oven or whatever.
41:00Yeah, Kyle Pitts did that one game, right? 166 yards and three touchdowns.
41:04Kyle Pitts only had three games last year where he had more than 70 receiving yards.
41:08That only happened three times and they were back to back to back.
41:12All three of those games are when Drake London wasn't playing and it was with Kirk Cousins.
41:17So I don't know. I'm like, you know, that same stat exactly, I think applies to Colson Loveland.
41:22Oh yeah. Well, he did everything. I said that without Roma Duneza when he missed the last five weeks of the season.
41:28So I don't know. I'm like with London, the quarterback situation.
41:31I think seventh or eighth is fine. Can I tell you something?
41:34I think that's fine. Maybe this is unhealthy. I loved this ranking for Kyle Pitts and was pretty prepared to target him
41:41in this range when he was in a contract year.
41:43And Kyle Pitts getting, part of me is a little like, you know, there's been questions about him earlier in his career.
41:50I don't know. Was he tagged? He was tagged, right?
41:53Yes. But then he signed an extension because you get the, you actually have till July 15th to sign a contract extension.
41:59But he signed a three-year deal, which I don't know.
42:02Usually matters. People in contract year, like it matters for Kyle Pitts.
42:05You see the players all the time. So I, I just feel like, honestly, I, I would be lying if I said
42:11I wasn't really colored by my experience in the ringer fantasy league where Kyle Pitts would get me one point and two
42:17points in three and one like under four is so insulting.
42:21It sticks with you, but I, I, I don't know.
42:23But that's tight end for you. That's the nature of the position.
42:27But also Tua could just pepper him. I don't know.
42:30Yeah. So we'll see. The other ones here, Harold Fannin.
42:32If Harold Fannin was on the Patriots, I think he'd be a goddamn phenomenon.
42:36Harold Fannin. Yeah, but he's not. I know he's not, but he's.
42:40Here's the, here's the key point. He's on the Browns, man.
42:43That's kind of tough. One of the statistically best rookie seasons ever for a tight end after having the most yards per
42:49rep run in college ever for a tight end.
42:52Basically the, the, the stink of the Browns is really doing so much to like make you not care about how good
42:58Harold Fannin and Quinshawn Judkins looked last year. Oh yeah.
43:01Like the fact that they have Concepcion, they have Boston, Fannin and Judkins.
43:04If they had Judy. If they were like had a normal quarterback and we're a normal organization, I'd be like the Browns are the next team.
43:12Yeah. But. And Monken too. Like I'm kind of excited about what Monken can do.
43:16This is why we need name brand. We're going to do the consulting agency where we're going to like name, we need
43:22to rebrand the Cleveland Browns as something else. We'd be like, look at this team.
43:27If somebody was like, dude, Subway has an incredible new sandwich.
43:30You'd be like, I don't know. I don't know if I'm going to trust that.
43:34Is that right? Subway has such a distinctive smell.
43:36We talked about this in Indianapolis. You can smell a Subway a mile away.
43:40What other places are like overwhelming smell? I think Chipotle has a smell.
43:44Chipotle's Subway has a smell. Yeah. You just know when you're near a Subway.
43:48In and out has a smell. Yeah. I haven't been in and out in a minute.
43:53Yeah. We should go when we're in Los Angeles in August.
43:56We should be sure. DK, have you been in and out?
43:59Pacific time zone. One time a very long time ago.
44:02You've only been in and out once? Yeah. In your fucking life?
44:05Yeah. Holy shit. What the hell? What have we been doing?
44:08I don't know. Drake, weren't you just saying your dad thought that instead of ordering animal style, the off menu thing at
44:14In and Out, he ordered doggy style? Yeah. This was like 40 years ago.
44:18But yeah. They never. They still talk about it in that in and out.
44:22It's kind of like me and that. He's on a list somewhere.
44:26Yeah. Here. Here. I want to get to get back to Fannin real quick.
44:30I think the most important stat with Fannin that I am going to be watching closely and maybe this changes a lot
44:36this year because of the way that the rosters change.
44:39But last year, and this is the problem you have with a lot of pass catching tight ends.
44:44He only played 52% of three receiver sets. So he was basically in there when they were doing two tight end sets all the time.
44:51That was his main thing. But then he only was in there about half the time when they were doing three receiver
44:57sets, which is, again, still the most common receiver or the most common formation in the NFL.
45:02And by the way. He was a child. He's 21 years old.
45:05The Browns drafted two receivers in the draft also.
45:08Yeah, but Todd Monken was, I mean, he was the offensive coordinator for the Ravens.
45:12But even before that, Georgia, he ran the Brock Bowers, Darnell, Darnell, Darnell, Washington tight end sets like Todd Monk.
45:18It's a pretty big multiple tight end guy. I see what you're saying, though.
45:22Well, he's 21. He well, he's not a real tight end.
45:25It doesn't even matter how old he is. He's not a real tight end.
45:29He's a pass catcher. Is he a receiver or he's a big receiver?
45:33Should we name that for people? Which of these like when defenses look at them, whether they, actually classify it as too tight.
45:39Like Kyle, I feel like the list is players that they're like not a real tight end.
45:44AK can't block Bowers. Actually, they can block. But I would say teams look at this entire tier.
45:49Actually, that is what they have. It's Harold fan and Kyle Pitts and Sam LaPorta are like, yeah, they're receivers.
45:55Sam LaPorta is a tight end, but he sucks at block.
45:58Why is that relevant? DK like why for the person drafting?
46:01Why should they care if he's a wide receiver or a tight end?
46:05Because if he's only playing in half of the three receiver sets.
46:08And again, there's a lot that could change, but he's just not on the field enough.
46:13I mean, like Pitts, Warren, McBride, they all played 90% of three receiver sets last year, which means they're just on the field all the time.
46:20Basically, they are the tight end in their offense.
46:22It's the Isaiah likely problem. It's basically is is Fannin going to be the Isaiah likely where you like love the talent.
46:29He flashes every time he gets the ball. He's awesome.
46:31He makes big plays, but he's only on the field.
46:34He's only on the field 60% of the snaps or whatever it is.
46:38And look, Njoku's gone. So that's a good start.
46:41But I don't think he's a real tight end.
46:43It just depends on what Todd Monken is willing to do.
46:46Is he just going to run out there with no tight end?
46:50So this is a perfect transition to the next tier because Dalton can get the first guy in this next year is Dalton Kincaid for the bills.
46:57But to your point, Craig, about why does this matter?
47:00I think that because the reason Dalton Kincaid gets drafted in real life in the first round by the Buffalo Bills or
47:06Kyle Pitts and the Falcons went before Jamar Chase.
47:09What teams tell themselves is if we have a tight end that we can put out there and they match with the linebacker, he's faster than the linebacker.
47:17And so when in the passing game, but then in the running, we'll have an advantage no matter what.
47:22And then you read that in the blurb. You're like, wait, he's a receiver at tight end.
47:27So that means he's like way better. But what actually happens if you're not good enough is you just have the weaknesses of both things.
47:34You're not fast. They treat you like a receiver.
47:37You're not a good enough blocker to make anyone pay, but you're not good enough at getting open to make the cornerbacks pay.
47:43And so you kind of can't play. And so it's your running game.
47:47Yeah. And so they just don't want to go out there with a guy who can't block.
47:52Exactly. And that's where the league's going. So it's like guys who can block first, then catch, which is how you get
47:58Colston Loveland ends up being probably more valuable because he actually can.
48:01I mean, you know, they have all the rookie upside at blockers.
48:05Even Tyler Warren can block a little. And so these guys who can't block kind of end up a little limited.
48:11So this next year, though, I mean, a lot of these guys like that Dalton Kincaid is like that.
48:16Travis Kelsey. That's why he's kind of like slow down as Travis Kelsey is not a blocker, but he's not that fast anymore.
48:22And this whole tier is Jake Ferguson for the Cowboys.
48:25He's a real tight end. Isaiah likely for the Giants, who's a classic example.
48:29We're talking about he's a receiver. Dallas Goddard for the Eagles and then George Kittle for the Niners, who's like a classic,
48:36the classic example of a total tight end. George Kittle feels low here.
48:39That's the one thing I notice about this tier.
48:42What? I think George Kittle's too low. I think he's going to freakishly outperform his injury for some reason.
48:47I agree. I just dropped it. We're all afraid because he's coming off an Achilles tear, which is a terrifying injury.
48:53But I don't know. I just feel like Kittle is probably going to be undervalued.
48:57Or he's worth more than this spot right now.
49:00Makes me nervous. I mean, we have him ranked as the 14th tight end and you're going like outside the top 100 easily.
49:06He tore his Achilles in week 12. He'll be 33 in October.
49:10I would say history is not on your side.
49:12Right. That's fair. Yeah. Was it week 12? It was late in the season.
49:16I don't know. It was even later. Was it in the playoffs?
49:20Oh, it was in the playoffs. Yeah. Yes. He got hurt and then he came back and he tore his Achilles versus the Eagles in the wildcard round.
49:28You're right. That's why it's a cause for concern.
49:30I do think he's heavy. Again, Stefania Bell is the best person with injury recovery.
49:34I know there's a lot of like Twitter doctors, but Stefania is the best.
49:38And she was right. She wrote us article at ESPN where basically Kittle had some pretty good comments about his recovery.
49:44But it's within the context of, you know, those kind of injuries.
49:48It's like Zach Charbonnet tore his, you know, he's shredding on Achilles, but he shredded his ACL last playoffs and he didn't come back for a long time.
49:56Kittle, I don't think he can play week one versus Australia.
49:59It's like, does he miss a game or does he miss a month?
50:02Yeah. He tore his Achilles on January 11th, 2026.
50:05Oh, that's tough. But I, I, I, it's weird.
50:08We'll have to look into Kittle. It's, it's weird.
50:10This whole tier is weird because it's, yeah, it's, it's also, it's also the first time there's old guys.
50:15I mean, I don't know. We haven't really hit this yet, but like tight ends kind of been overtaken by Gen Z.
50:22Do you know the first, the first person over 26 here is Travis Kelsey.
50:26Who's 10th. Wow. Is that right? It's literally, I mean, if you just go through our rankings, Brock Bowers is 23.
50:32Trey McBride's 26. Tyler Warren's 24. Colston Loveland's 22.
50:34Tucker Craft's 25. Harold Fanning's 21. Kyle Pitts in his fifth season's 25 and Laporte is 25.
50:39And then Dalt Cade's 26. And then you get to now it's Kelsey and Ferguson and all these older guys.
50:45But this is once again, I think I, I, I would be shocked if any of these guys was like a top three tight end.
50:52But if I, but if I told you one of them was, and they just had a great season and then one
50:58of them, you know, really like spark season had like 11 touchdowns.
51:01Who would you pick Greg? Who's your sleeper? It's horrible.
51:04I don't know. I guess I'd pick Isaiah likely to be honest.
51:08That's I don't. Dalton Kincaid does not play. Dalton Kincaid simply just doesn't play enough.
51:12He's a good example of the receiver thing is Kincaid like Kyle Pitts is a.
51:16Tight end. Who's actually a receiver. But when you get injuries and they take away your top end athleticism, then suddenly you're
51:22not able to beat all the other super athletic defenders, but you can't block.
51:26And so it's like, how do we play you?
51:29Let me name some tight ends last year who played a higher snap percentage than Dalton Kincaid.
51:34Mitchell Evans. What team was he on? Panthers. Oh my God.
51:37Noah Fant. Luke Musgrave. Oh. Elijah Higgins. Musgrave. Jeremy Rucker.
51:40Elijah Higgins. I'm shocked that Musgrave played more. I guess Kincaid.
51:43Davis Allen, Austin Hooper, Daniel Bellinger. I mean, he was 54th in tight end snap percentage.
51:47Dalton Kincaid. And you know what? James Cook led the league in rushing, which is the point we're trying to make.
51:53Totally. The Bills running back led the league in rushing and Kincaid didn't play much.
51:57To counter, Dalton Kincaid was first in yards per route run.
52:01Like he's efficient and I think he's good, but he has a partially torn PCL that they're not going to fix with surgery that he's been battling through.
52:08And even the way Billy Bean talks about him.
52:11It sounds like he's injured all the time. Or Brandon Bean, not Billy Bean.
52:15Even the way Brandon Bean talks about him is like, yeah, we're going to have to manage his workload, but I hope he's healthy.
52:22So it's like, okay. I hate to hear that.
52:24Yeah. I don't know about that. Travis Kelsey. You know, I think, you know, Jake Ferguson.
52:29Is Kelsey. Can we do the annual. I'm outing you, but one of you hasn't seen the league, but there's a character
52:35in the league called Taco who doesn't do any research.
52:38Doesn't really watch football. I know that guy's name.
52:40Shows up once a year, once a year to the draft and just he would take Travis Kelsey.
52:46Everyone make fun of him and then he wins the league.
52:49And it's like, Kelsey's the guy where it's like, oh yeah, we got him 10th.
52:53And you're like, how do you get where did he finish in total fantasy points?
52:57Let's hear like second or third. Kelsey was third in half PBR points.
53:01Total. Even though Mahomes, even though Mahomes tore his ACL and the final month was with like Chris Ola Dukin and like the worst quarterbacks in years.
53:08But like Hive, it's to your point. How many points did he average per game?
53:13Nine. Not insignificant. No, it was not. It was what every other tight end averaged.
53:17The guy I want to bring up here. Eight and nine points.
53:20Jawan Johnson averaged eight. Dalton Schultz, eight. Jake Ferguson, eight.
53:23Hunter Henry, eight. Dalton Kincaid, eight. You can just close your eyes and pick one of these guys.
53:28He's going to average eight points. Isaiah likely is the guy, to your point, he's the best.
53:33He's the most pop off the page player, especially like who's going to lead the Giants in targets in September if Malik
53:39Nabors starts the season unphysically unable to perform and misses the first month.
53:43Like it's not going to be Calvin Austin. It's not going to be Darnell Moody.
53:47It'd be Darius Slate. And Isaiah likely is a really talented player.
53:51He's by my Mark Andrews. Ironically, if it's not Isaiah likely, I think it's Mark Andrews.
53:55I think Mark Andrews is actually really undervalued for the Ravens.
53:58And he's a perfect. He hits. He checks every box to me because people are sick of him.
54:03People who just watched the playoffs were like, oh, that's the guy who drops the balls.
54:08People have had him in fantasy or sick of him.
54:11But if you go back. Sick of him. He had a lot of injuries in 2023 that ended his season.
54:16And then 2024, he was recovering from the what's the bad name that he had like that hip.
54:22He had a bad kind of hip recovery. But then he was in a car accident where he almost died like two weeks before the season.
54:29And the Ravens kept that real hush hush. So he didn't fall down rankings enough.
54:33But he really lucky to survive the car accident.
54:36And then last year, Lamar was hurt the whole season.
54:39And so I'm kind of like, maybe he's lost a step.
54:42But they gave him a contract extension. I look at Mark Andrews.
54:45He's only 30. They chose him over likely. Well, that's the thing.
54:48He's only 30 years old. Exactly. They chose him over likely.
54:52He's only 30. They have a new offensive coordinator.
54:54They've got a coach. 31. OK. Well, all right.
54:57Well, you're 31 too. All right. We're not going to put you out to pasture.
55:01I'm 31. No, actually, I do agree with you.
55:03I have him written down here as like a deeper.
55:06I think people are beyond sick of him. I think he's like borderline irrelevant.
55:10They've given up. That show's still on. It's like when somebody's like, you still watch the morning show?
55:15It's like that show's still going. Like, wait, is that show still going?
55:19Is that show still going? Yeah. Morning show's still cooking.
55:22Can I admit something really embarrassing to you? Yeah.
55:24So the morning show, this shows. I mean, first of all, been long, long enough.
55:29There were billboards for it when I still lived in Los Angeles pre-pandemic.
55:32Yeah. And it just said morning show, Apple TV, Jennifer Aniston, and who is Reese Witherspoon, right?
55:37And I drove by it. It was on a billboard.
55:40So I'm driving. I'm not on my phone. I'm not Googling.
55:43I'm like, okay. I'm like, oh, that's so smart of Apple TV.
55:46They're going to like have a morning show with those two women.
55:50That's so smart. Like a real news program. I thought it was like the Today Show.
55:54I thought they were paying them a gajillion dollars.
55:57And I'm like, yeah, my mom's definitely going to watch Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston.
56:01That's so smart. Talk about the news. The whole first season happened.
56:05I had no idea it was a scripted television show.
56:07He's a big Billy Crudup fan. Yeah. Steve Carell.
56:10I think they had like Matt Lauer and Steve Carell on that show.
56:14Oh, tough. But like Mark Andrews, I'm kind of sitting here like everybody's sick of this guy.
56:18They got rid of all their tight ends. Like it used to be like, oh, Mark Andrews is split.
56:24Isaiah Likely, gone. Charlie Kohler, gone. Patrick Ricard, gone.
56:26And it's like they brought in Noah. They drafted the third and fourth round rookie wide receiver.
56:31Eli Surratt and Jacoby Lane. They have, it's still Zay Flowers, Rashad Bateman, Devontez Walker.
56:35I'm kind of like, who's on this team? It's what if Lamar's good again?
56:39He might be pretty, this might not be bad.
56:42I'm ready to be hurt again. There are, I think Mark Andrews, again, he's so cheap.
56:47And again, it's like, would you rather, you know, just where people are going.
56:50If you wanted to draft, let's just take Kyle Pitts because he's an easy punchy back.
56:55You know, in front of Kyle Pitts is like Jackson Dart or Blake Corum, Dak Prescott, Ramondre Stevenson, like there are real players going around him.
57:02You know what I mean? You know, Chris Godwin, if that's your flavor, I don't know about for me.
57:08But the players around Mark Andrews are like, now it's like Jordan Love, Wondell Robinson, Jordan Mason for the Vikings.
57:13Like, you know what I mean? Would you rather have Mark Andrews and, you know, Jackson Dart or like Jordan Love?
57:19To go back to your question earlier, Heifetz, I think you asked if one of these guys ends up being a top
57:26three tight end and you're not going to be surprised about it.
57:29It's going to be Mark Andrews because he's done that before.
57:32Exactly. I'm going to be happy for everyone who drafts him because I think it's logically a smart thing to do.
57:38I agree. So I'm not going to do it.
57:41So we like George Kittle, but we want to see how his rehab.
57:44We want to see how training camp goes. We need to see him running out on the field.
57:49Right. Yeah. And then us not talking about Jake Ferguson's perfect.
57:52The next tier here, I'm going to read a bunch of names and I want each of us to pick up like one.
57:59This is the last real tier. Yeah. So it's Jawan Johnson for the Saints.
58:03Brenton Strange for the Jaguars, who had a good season, but now he's buried in the depth chart.
58:08T.J. Hawkinson for the Vikings. Rondae Gadsden for the Chargers, who had a flash in the pan for a month, but he had a good rookie year.
58:16Hunter Henry for the Patriots. Chico Conquo, who signed with the commanders this offseason from the Titans.
58:21A.J. Barner, who is essential for the Seahawks down the stretch.
58:24Kenyon Sadiq, the first run pick out of Oregon for the Jets.
58:27Dalton Schultz for the Texans. And then Colby Parkinson and Terrence Ferguson for the Rams.
58:31That's a long list, but DK, I'm going to make you go first.
58:35You have to pick one sleeper from this group.
58:38And if I told you someone in this group ends up like a surprise top six tight end of the year and they were like essential draft pick.
58:45Which one do you think it is? Who is the most upside?
58:49Because that's really all we care about. Yeah, this is tough.
58:52I'm going to I'm going to pick out a name that is this is this is another one that's like we're just
58:58sick of this guy and I'm sick of talking about him every year.
59:02But Chica Cuonco for the commanders, because again, there's just a there is a vacancy at the number two receiver spot for this team.
59:09Right now, it's it's Terry McLaurin and a handful of guys that we don't know who's going to step up.
59:14Traylen Burks, probably not. Antonio Williams, maybe, but he's a rookie and he's coming in and he's probably going to just be relegated to the slot.
59:22There's a small chance. Maybe it's not. I mean, it's not nothing that Chica Cuonco ends up second on the commanders and targets and finally realizes the potential.
59:30This would not be the first guy who had to go to a new team to finally realize his potential at tight end.
59:36Can I wait? Can I tell you this? Like, do you know what I have at the top of my notes for Chica Conco?
59:43I don't talk about this guy. It's from two years ago.
59:46Do you know what I wrote? I put it at the top, which rocks for hand.
59:51Chico Conco cannot catch. I don't care how many targets he has.
59:54He cannot catch a football. Yeah, but you're right, though.
59:57But he is good when he has the ball.
59:59Oh, my God, look at that guy. He can run after the catch.
60:03I don't know. I remember that one, like, 70-yard touchdown he had, and I was like, whoa.
60:08He's so good. He did sign for, like, a surprising amount of money.
60:12I'm going to pull it up. I don't have it off.
60:15He's never had more than three touchdowns in a season.
60:17Well, neither did Trey McBride before last year, Craig.
60:20That's true. I think that you're right. It checks a few of the boxes you want for, like, a huge breakout, which is definitely an athlete.
60:27No one questions, like, the ability. Can't catch. And Jaden Daniels is great.
60:31Washington doesn't know the player is by McLaurin. You also said upside.
60:34They have no receiving on that team. You also said upside.
60:38And I thought, he's a guy that actually has upside.
60:40If you're looking for a floor play, I think Dalton Schultz is maybe the guy in this range.
60:46I feel like we kind of floor play. He had over 100 targets last year.
60:50Who fucking drafts? Who's looking for a floor play?
60:52Pick 180. Yeah. I don't know. Well, maybe you didn't draft a tight end before that.
60:57I guess. I guess if you, like, truly. Oh, please.
61:00But he'll be on waivers. If you need seven points a game, draft Dalton Schultz.
61:04Who's your, Craig, if I told you someone in this group exploded, who is it?
61:08It's funny. I think there's, like, more options in this tier than the one above it that has more, like, huge upside potential.
61:15I think I would take A.J. Barner on the Seahawks, who could be, like, the second or third pass catcher on this team.
61:21I mean, it's basically, it's JSN, and then behind it, it's, like, Rasheed Shaheed and Cooper Cup.
61:26And whatever you want to think of those two or how they're used in the offense, I'm like, A.J.
61:31Barner, 500 yards, six touchdowns last year. He had 50 yards and a touchdown in the Super Bowl.
61:36And the new offensive coordinator, Brian Fleury, was the tight ends coach on the Niners for the last four years with George Kittle.
61:43I think Barner played a little bit more than I thought when I looked at it.
61:4877% of snaps last year. 12th in routes run per drop back.
61:51Played a lot more than Arroyo. And Barner's a good blocker.
61:54So I think, like, he can be on the field.
61:57I mean, he was definitely seen as a guy who could do both, block and catch.
62:01And so I'm like, I don't know. This is an offense that might feature the tight end more.
62:06The offensive coordinator makes sense. He can be on the field a lot because he can block.
62:11And he's been a guy that they like in the red zone.
62:15And he catches a lot of touchdowns. He's pretty good, man.
62:18I think I love everything you said about that.
62:20The only concern is really that Arroyo breaks out and they try to use him more.
62:25Because he was hurt most of his rookie year, I believe.
62:28I think Arroyo is, again, he's another crazy athlete receiver who just plays tight end.
62:32And if he doesn't work out. He's not really a tight end.
62:36Yeah. But that's kind of what we saw with Tucker Craft and the Packers.
62:40The Packers took Luke Musgrave, who how many sports did he play in college?
62:44Like seven or whatever? Luke Musgrave? Oh, yeah. He was like the former skier.
62:48He was like the craziest athlete at tight end.
62:50And they took him in the second round. Packers took Tucker Craft in the third round.
62:55And you know what? Tucker Craft can actually block and play tight end.
62:58So he plays. And Luke Musgrave doesn't fucking play.
63:01So AJ Barner has that path. I would say there's one guy here that leaps off the page to me.
63:07And it's probably my biggest sleeper in the season.
63:09He's kind of like the twin to Mark Andrews.
63:12But Mark Andrews is like wins on grit and hustle.
63:14And this person's actually athletic. TJ Hawkinson for the Vikings.
63:17I think he reminds me of. The forgotten man.
63:20Yeah. We were trying. I re-listened to the episode we did at the end of the season where we were doing memento tattoos.
63:26And we were like, what's the Jonathan Taylor lesson?
63:29And Craig said, anyone who's ever been like the best person at their position and is not 30 yet, we should think about.
63:35That's TJ Hawkinson. I think I said he's not 27, but that's fine.
63:39I was stretching it for my own purposes. Craig, don't go check.
63:42Don't go check what you actually said. Hawkinson's 29.
63:45He's a first round pick. DK, is TJ Hawkinson athletic?
63:48Yeah. He was. Yeah. But he had an ACL injury and then he had a late ACL injury.
63:53And he talked about how the next season coming into it, it really affected his season.
63:57And then coming into last year, I liked him as a sleeper.
64:01But then what we didn't foresee is how bad JG McCarthy was.
64:04And the Vikings offense was a mess. And I think that TJ Hawkinson's been lost in the wash of no one really
64:11knows how to put that in context. I don't think it's hard to foresee a situation where considering he's going like he's
64:17like a 14th round pick where, oh, this guy who was once a top two tight end, now that his knee is
64:23healthy and his quarterback is no longer JG McCarthy, is like back in being a top eight guy.
64:28And I think I'd rather have TJ Hawkinson. He's, I don't think he's a top 200 pick right now.
64:33He's going on waivers after your draft. And at that rate, that is what makes me rethink drafting Harold Fannin or Kyle Pitts or Sam Laporta.
64:41I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I agree with that.
64:44He's the second guy on this list of me behind Barner of like guys who I think can pop contract year also for TJ Hawkinson.
64:51And the question is like, it's the Kyler Murray question where on one hand you're like way better than JJ McCarthy.
64:57And on the other hand, you're like Trey McBride.
64:59I'll say the stat again, seven touchdowns in 39 games with Kyler Murray, 10 touchdowns in 12 games with Jacoby Brissett.
65:05But yeah, that doesn't mean McBride still wasn't great and was getting a lot of targets.
65:10So it's obviously still a huge upgrade. So I agree.
65:13I mean, if you're this late in the draft, like this guy's proven it definitely worth a dart throw.
65:18There's a lot going on. It's like you have Jefferson, you have Juwan Jennings, you have Jordan Addison.
65:23There's a lot of people there. Yeah, but he's also, but he's literally free.
65:27I guess that's what I'm saying. Someone who three or four years ago was the second tight end is free.
65:33Okay. So the other people want to mention is the Rams tight ends, Colby Parkinson and Terrence Ferguson because so Pukeniku is like the third pick.
65:40He might be the first pick in some drafts.
65:43And then Devonta Adams goes 30th or so or 40th, whatever.
65:46Yeah. The next Rams players past catchers drafted are under.
65:48There are no other ones drafted. It's just like the running backs.
65:52It's Kyron Williams and Blake Corum. No one else is being drafted.
65:55And so it's like the two tight Rams tight Colby Parkinson.
65:58I think everyone's like, well, regression, blah, blah, blah.
66:01He had nine touchdowns. He won't do that again.
66:04He's going to just do it again. That's the guy this year.
66:07He's going to have exactly as many touchdowns this year as he did last year.
66:11And then Terrence Ferguson is going to get better too.
66:14But I think they're going to both play all the time.
66:17I have no earthly idea what week you should play them or whatever.
66:21I think there'll be this year's version of across the season.
66:24They'll have really good years. Godspeed on when to play them.
66:27But I think they're both talented and it will, they will be the third and fourth receivers the Rams.
66:32And if anything happens to Puka or Devonta, they're going to be like weekly plays and they're also free, but that's, that's it.
66:39So with that said, good. I like that. They're great.
66:42With that said, I want to get a hot quarterback rankings and emails, but with having just gone through these tears, Craig,
66:48do you think, how do you feel from what you said at the start of the show?
66:53Do you want an elite tight end? Are you willing to, what would you do in your draft if you had to draft right now at tight end?
67:01I'm, I think I am more likely to go after a top two, maybe one of the tier two guys I like,
67:07but I think Bowers McBride and a Warren Loveland craft.
67:10I think I'm really going to go after that this year or wait to the very end, but I'm more likely to
67:16get an elite tight end this year than I think I have been in years past.
67:21DK. Yeah. I'm in, I'm in the exact same boat.
67:23I think I like that. I am just more excited.
67:26I never does that. Like I, I used to never draft Gronk, Travis Kelsey.
67:30I don't know why I didn't like reaching on tight end.
67:33I do feel like this year I like Bowers and McBride more than typical years.
67:38You have a potential to have a really strong, uh, advantage at your tight end spot.
67:42It's there's just a, yeah, it's just so flat after I like, I like Bowers.
67:46I agree with what you guys are saying. The flip side is I do think that just the overall youth at the position creates some level of chaos.
67:54And I just think there are so many, I mean, again, the youth of all these guys, I just think there are
68:00more tight ends that are viable than there have been, not just because there's more tight ends on the field, but when
68:07we're talking about all these guys who entered the league in the last three seasons.
68:11I don't know. To me, a lot of guys are going to score eight points, but.
68:15That's true. That's probably true. Yeah. Well, then, yeah, fuck them.
68:19Bowers, what do we always say about a tight end that's actually elite?
68:22Super bad? It's like having two, it's like having two cocks.
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68:58Hit the street, grab a can, and get after it.
69:01We have some, we have, I want to, I have a hockey email here, but first we have to get to something very important.
69:08The hot quarterback rankings. Cannot wait. They're here. Voted on by the seven.
69:12Yes. For those who don't know, someone asked me, what's the seven?
69:15And I'm like, right, maybe everyone was. We have seven female listeners, so we call it the seven.
69:20We asked all seven of the women who listened to the show to rank quarterbacks, and they did.
69:25All seven women. Hundreds of them actually responded. Hundreds of the seven wrote in and gave us rankings.
69:30So we actually averaged, and way more scientifically than you would ever think, actually averaged all these rankings from all seven women who sent us rankings.
69:38And we last week did the honorable mention. So at the top of every week, we're going to reveal the next four.
69:44So today we're going to reveal the beginning of these rankings.
69:47So we're going to do 13, 14, 15, and 16 here for the sexy.
69:51Are we doing sexy 16 or no? Sweet 16.
69:53You guys don't, why don't you like sexy 16?
69:56What is wrong with sexy 16? I don't, I don't feel strongly either.
70:00I'm not going to push into it. It's fine.
70:02Fine. Sweet 16. No, it's fine. We're doing top 16.
70:05Wait, can you remind people who the honorable mentions were at 20 to 16?
70:09I, of course I can. So the honorable mentions, the people who did not, that just missed the cut in no particular
70:15order, Daniel Jones, Bo Nix, Kyler Murray, Sam Darnold, Drake May, who one comment always looks 12, Jared Goff, Fernando Mendoza, and Kirk Cousins were honorable mentions.
70:23Wait, you named so many there. We didn't talk about that many last time.
70:27No, we only did four. I was talking about who the four honorable mentions were.
70:31You named like eight. Well, then I'll go fuck myself.
70:34Okay. Those are the people who didn't make it.
70:36He snuck a few in there. Who are the four?
70:39Who are the first four out? It was Drake May, Goff, and Mendoza and Cousins.
70:44It's like the tight ends, man. Some of these things are close.
70:47I'll score eight points. Oh, please. Okay. The middle of squishy.
70:50So start with 16. Okay. Can I get a drum roll?
70:53The 16th hottest quarterback of the 2026 NFL season, as voted on by all seven of the women who listen to the
70:59Ringer Fantasy Football Show is Jackson Dart, quarterback for the New York Giants.
71:0316. 16. This is shocking. I have a theory.
71:06I'll tell you what. I know what your theory is, and you're right.
71:09So much higher. Well, I have two theories. One, are people going to say he's a douche or the Trump thing?
71:15Both. Yes. Yeah. People, he definitely suffered. You know, political alignment has taken a disproportionate impact.
71:20Sure. Women buy Nikes too, guys. Yeah. Look, we're playing for all 50 states.
71:24I, I, I, liberals buy Nikes. Women parameters on how they should judge hotness.
71:28Yeah. And I definitely will say. Vibes are a part of it.
71:31And also, yeah. And a lot, it was very fresh in the minds.
71:35And a lot of people were upset about that.
71:37But I, I have a bunch of comments here about Jackson Dart.
71:41I will admit there was, there were a lot of threes and layups.
71:44I actually will. I'm not going to pull out a lot of data for the sexy contest, but I am going to pull it out for Jackson Dart.
71:52I want to add my, my second theory, other than the Trump thing and like the vibes there.
71:57I also think he's just not that famous. And I think that helps a lot.
72:02Like, I think guys like Joe Burrow, who like everyone knows helps.
72:05And I think there's probably a lot of people who are like, this guy like barely played.
72:10Who even is he? Now he's not that hot.
72:12But it would, I think fame adds two points to your hot.
72:16That's true. I don't, I can't prove that that's true.
72:19There is another thing. Can you think of another reason that he was low?
72:23I think it's, he's got too much shit on his head.
72:26He's too many accessories. I, it's, that's. That's one of those old man things you've ever said.
72:31Take that shit off your head. He's got a fucking necklace.
72:34He's got shit all over his face. It's funny.
72:36Riaf, son. Well, it's funny to get said that because the other thing that dragged him down, the people, the other reason
72:42people had him really low was he just looks young.
72:45And a lot of people that are like, it seemed like everyone 29 and older was like, that looks like a child.
72:52He looks like a high schooler. But so Dart had the biggest standard deviation of any quarterback.
72:56He had. That's really. That's really funny. He's the only quarterback that had more than 50 top 10 votes that had more than 30 bottom 10 votes.
73:04Okay. Can we say, where did you guys have them?
73:07I had a nice. Oh, I'd have to pull it up.
73:10I put him 15th. Can you just look where I had them?
73:13I think I don't have the sheet. I think it's at him fifth.
73:17I think we were kind of like, you did.
73:20You did have him fifth. No, no, no. That's what I'm looking at.
73:23Oh yeah, you did fifth. Yeah. I mean, I think he's really, I mean, he's, he's a good looking man.
73:29So let me, can I read you some of the anonymous quotes?
73:32A little fan bias there. What did you have?
73:35That's his quarterback. That's my quarterback. Yeah. Well, you're wrong.
73:38Can I read you some of the comments with this?
73:41Not according to this. Craig's too high on him.
73:43These are the comments. The, the all seven of our women listeners wrote about Jackson Dart.
73:48These are all anonymous quotes. The NFL's hottest fuck boy.
73:50Yeah. Looks like he bang. Looks like he banged my best friend's mom.
73:54Yeah. Zach Wilson corollary. Seems like a 1980s teen movie villain.
73:57Yeah, for sure. Oh, big time. Yep. Him and Bo Nix would crush it.
74:01We haven't brought up the fact he has a mullet yet.
74:04Has a mullet. Stereotypically, Jock probably shoves someone into a locker in high school.
74:08Oh, big time. Yeah. Nerds. And then so to the mullet.
74:11Nerds. Nerds. Political activity. This one I thought was so funny.
74:15Someone said political activity aside. Not every guy can look good in a curly mullet.
74:19Dart rocks it. And he looks a bit like a yossified Matthew Stafford.
74:22Okay. I don't know how to say that word out loud, but it's like, you know, like people write like, yeah.
74:28Like why? Yossified. Yossified, yeah. Yossified. I don't know how to say that.
74:32Yossified? Yossified. Yeah, okay. I don't say that word a whole lot.
74:35Yeah, look, I think what Jackson Dart lacks in traditional attractive qualities he makes up for in kind of just like confidence.
74:42Yes, he's an incredibly confident man. He's got swag or whatever.
74:45What is it? Riz, as the kids are saying.
74:47I feel like it's like, if he's like talking to you at a bar, you kind of could be into it.
74:53You could be like, you know what? This guy's kind of got an energy to him.
74:58He's tall and really muscular. So there's that. Well, that's what these guys are, but yeah.
75:02No, no, they're not all tall, Craig. True. That's such a good call.
75:06All the tall ones are in the top 16.
75:09So that's my biggest theory. I have seen the rankings, the full rankings.
75:12You have not. I think height would really change this.
75:15If we just held the faces to the heights, I think a lot of these would change.
75:20If you're having to look at them in the eyes.
75:23A couple other quotes that I thought were really funny about Jackson Dart has a dozen red flags and he's proud of all of them.
75:30That's good. Jackson Dart. Someone said, I know it wasn't his choice, but someone who spells Jackson with an X cannot be hot.
75:36I was going to ask if the X makes a difference here.
75:40Someone said Jackson Dart would absolutely ruin my life.
75:42Complimentary. That's perfect. Girls love a bad boy. Like one night in a bar.
75:46You're like, you know what? Let's fucking go for it.
75:49I'm not here. I'm not here for. I'm here for a good time.
75:53Not a long time. Yeah. Is that. But yeah.
75:55So, yeah, I think. Hot if you're jimsy. So that's 16.
75:58Okay. Jackson Dart. The quotes delivered on that one.
76:01Number 15. Do I. Can I make you guys guess who do you think is next?
76:06Baker. And I'm going to spoil it and tell you I bet you won't get it right.
76:10So with that said, can you guess? Sam Darnold.
76:13No, he was already out. Oh, was he out?
76:15Heifetz gave it away. Jordan Love. No. 15. This person's ahead of Jackson Dart.
76:19So you think this person doesn't deserve it? Aaron Rodgers.
76:22Tyler Shuck. Tyler Shuck is three on this list.
76:25No. I don't think they even know that he's like six foot five.
76:28Tyler Shuck. This is why we did it, boys.
76:31Because men don't know what women want. Men don't know.
76:34And Tyler Shuck. Well, I have Shuck nine. DK might know what women want.
76:38DK had Jackson Dart 15th and the seven had him 16th.
76:41DK had Tyler Shuck ninth. Yeah. I think he's traditionally attractive and he's tall.
76:45He's tall. I don't know if they know that though.
76:48I don't think, I would not describe him as traditionally attractive.
76:51You would? I don't know. He's got like a square jaw, hair.
76:54I think that he's tall. He's rich. He has hair.
76:57They're rich compared to the other guys. They're all rich.
77:00Come on. Can I read you some of the quotes the seven wrote in about Tyler Shuck?
77:05Wow. Okay. He has a kind eyes, Craig. Yeah.
77:07Someone wrote. First of all, someone just wrote it about Tyler Shuck, which is so perfect for the photos.
77:13Also, if you're listening on Spotify, you can hit video and watch the video of this.
77:17Or on Netflix. Put us on Netflix. This is a great segment for Netflix.
77:21Someone wrote in and just said, Tyler Shuck, smile more.
77:24Smile for me, baby. Come on. Someone said, Tyler Shuck, wonder bread looking ass.
77:28Yeah. Ooh, now this picture. This picture's good. Like Jason Segel in Forgetting Sarah Marshall, like dating Kristen Bell.
77:33I'm like, Gai Normo, get out of the shot.
77:36Like, I think he's like a great, like hold the purse for your girlfriend guy.
77:40Yes. Someone said, I'm sure I've seen this guy on The Bachelor before.
77:44Yeah. Oh, 100%. He's on the whole Bachelor, like rotation.
77:47All the different shows. He's kind of like, and we'll like take photos of his girlfriend.
77:51He'll take like 40 versions of the same photo for his girlfriend on Instagram.
77:55And their shoes aren't in any of them. And she's mad about that.
77:59Yeah. If he, someone said, Tyler Shuck, if he wasn't a quarterback, he'd be pulling groupies as the cute front man for
78:05a pop punk band at a warehouse party. Definitely.
78:08I'm glad. Okay. Someone said, I hate that I find Tyler Shuck attractive frat boy in a bad way, but I can't quit him.
78:14Wow. Oh. Someone said sinister frat boy energy. Sinister.
78:17Really? Oh, I don't kiss a sinister energy. I was going to say, he looks kind of wholesome to me.
78:23I agree. I think he looks, yeah. Sinister is such a great word.
78:26Someone wrote, I wish he was my math tutor.
78:29Oh, geez. And then something I have to ask you guys about that I just, is a total blind spot for me.
78:35This is a nice photo of him. The one we're looking at, he's, yeah.
78:39Okay. Someone wrote, Tyler Shuck, pretty cute, points off for being an adult blonde man.
78:43Ah. I got to tell you, I didn't know that that was a thing.
78:47It's a thing. Can you please tell me about this?
78:50Is it a red flag to be a blonde adult?
78:53Is it like, because I was blonde as a child?
78:56Even I was really blonde as a child. It's kind of like an unserious hair color for an adult man.
79:01Is that the idea? That's really good. That's so funny.
79:04I never thought about that. You were a blonde child?
79:07I was a very blonde. Yeah, I was. Yeah, I was dirty.
79:10Yeah, I was actually dirty. Wow. Probably not as blonde.
79:13You were blonde as you were really blonde. I mean, DK, your son is very blonde.
79:18Calvin still has blonde hair. Yeah. Yeah. He might be guilty of this when he's an adult and has blonde hair.
79:24I think I might be getting a little too overwhelmed.
79:27But like, he's 15th on this list. This is still like kind of middle average, I would say.
79:32Well, average starting quarterback. Someone also said, my wife had to Google image him, this man's a blank sheet of printer paper.
79:38Yeah. And then the funniest comment was someone just who wrote long sentences for other quarterbacks then just wrote Tyler Shuck dash forgettable.
79:44Okay. All right. Which was me. Who's sinister? Who's 14?
79:4714. I think this is where I'm going to actually hold my line and say the seven are wrong.
79:53Okay. 14 is Jaden Daniels for the Washington Commanders.
79:55Oh, yeah. I had him way higher. I think that this is the first real misstep from the seven.
80:01I have him 13. So I'm right on. Oh, interesting.
80:03Okay. I had him four. Really? I think he's a good looking man.
80:07Look at that smile. He's a good looking man.
80:10I don't know. So someone wrote. What do I know?
80:12That's why we that's why we consulted the seven.
80:15So the comments on Jaden Daniels. Beautiful smile. Charisma out the ass.
80:18Clear skin. Could stand to gain a few pounds, but that's between him and God.
80:23He's skinny. He's a little skinny. Yeah. And then someone wrote his style confidence.
80:27He has cool effortless demeanor, long lean, fantastic angular bone structure, million watts smile.
80:31I prefer my men a little thick, but Jaden looks great.
80:34It's surprising. He's only 14 considering some of these compliments.
80:37Someone else wrote. I'd smoke a joint with Jaden Daniels, but I wouldn't fuck him.
80:41He does have like that saying. How do you say it?
80:44Song Freud? Like the he's just cool under pressure.
80:46Yeah, he's another guy whose confidence to me elevates his looks.
80:50I thought someone nailed this and they just wrote.
80:52Oh, I'm sorry. I don't have the exact comment, but they basically wrote Jaden Daniels has not played in enough games yet
80:58for people to realize how hot he was or hot he is, which I think is accurate because he had a rookie
81:05year and then he missed a lot of time.
81:07Also, I will say, I think some of the some of and this is like something that will probably happen with all
81:13these guys, but like it depends on the first picture you see of him.
81:17I think there's like an anchoring effect because I must have pulled up one where he was smiling.
81:22He has a great smile. Incredible smile. So maybe that was the anchoring effect for him for me.
81:27And can I can I throw out one other thing about Jaden Daniels where the same thing that the height would affect it?
81:34There is one thing that would dock him quite a bit that I think if women knew this.
81:39Well, what Brandon Iyuk did last week was out of bounds.
81:42I will. It is a known thing that Jaden Daniels, his mom is always there.
81:46His mom is always like within 30 feet of where they're Jaden Daniels is.
81:50He has a game. He's out of whatever. I think I think at some point that might become grading.
81:56The mama's boy situation. Yeah, I think that that's that's it's I think that that might impact the hotness rating that he
82:02is any social event he's at the World Cup.
82:05He's at whatever his mom's always there with him.
82:07Yeah. Loving your mom is good, but having her around all the time.
82:11Not good. I'm just saying that if it would it would impact the ratings if people do that.
82:16I love I'm having so much fun with this.
82:18I truly have no idea what to expect. He's number 14.
82:22Also, all these are surprising. Women also notice things I'd never think about.
82:25Someone wrote Jaden Daniels knows how to do his hair right for his face shape.
82:29Oh, interesting. I just I'm still working on that myself.
82:32We all are. Sure. So for the record, we had Jaden Daniels seventh as a composite ranking.
82:37I think I think I'm not going to try to fight the women on this one, but I think that one I think I'm going to stick with.
82:45OK, the next one, 13th on the. The quarterback hot rankings, man, I got no idea where this is.
82:50I think this is Brock Purdy for the Niners.
82:53That's kind of shocking to me. I had him 32nd.
82:56Why? Because he's like a child. He looks like he's 12.
82:59I don't know. I had him 10th. 10th? That's wild.
83:02How is that so different? I think he's a little cutie.
83:05Cutie or cutie patootie? A little cutie. A sweet little cute guy that you meet in high school and he's really nice.
83:11And, you know, he's quietly really athletic and strong.
83:14But he's like the nice cute guy in gym class that you run into.
83:18DK, why'd you have him 30? You're probably 30 seconds.
83:20I just think he doesn't have a look. He just doesn't look like anything.
83:24He's the guy you don't notice in the store.
83:27That's exactly what someone wrote to us. I literally, I actually went back and found that email for that woman who emailed
83:33us who works in a Lululemon and Brock Purdy came in and none of them knew he was the quarterback for quite a while.
83:40I just don't. I think relative to the rest of the guys on this list, he's not noticeable.
83:45I mean, I'm not saying he's ugly. You having him 30 seconds is out of control.
83:5030 seconds crazy. Out of 36 or 40 or what?
83:52What? I assume it's not out of 32. It's 32.
83:55No, he has only four. Yeah, he has four guys after Brock Purdy out of 36.
84:00This was hot in his rankings. I don't find him hot.
84:03I know, but so DK, it represents something that I also.
84:06He's a conventionally like solid looking guy. When he does the dance, I'm like, stop doing that.
84:11This is an age thing as well. When he does like, you know, he does the fucking, what is it?
84:17The gritty or whatever? He kind of hits it though.
84:19White. No, not the gritty. The Dougie. Craig, you got to see what's going on here.
84:24One, DK hates the 49ers. Two, DK is 12 years older than us.
84:28The fact that he's wearing a 49ers uniform probably does.
84:30I think he kind of hits the Dougie. But no, it's an age thing.
84:34I think he looks like a little kid doing it.
84:37I'm like, please stop doing that. A lot of women wrote in and I could tell some people's ages because some people
84:43had a giant bucket of like Purdy was bucketed in a lot with Drake May and Cam Ward as young guys.
84:49They just would kind of like literally children. Yeah.
84:52And I think that for people of a certain age, there's a point where they look so young.
84:57We have a 38 year old woman voting here.
85:00The kid who looks 20, I get it. Maybe not.
85:02Yeah. So can I read you some of the comments the seven had about Brock Purdy?
85:07Sure. Brock Purdy. Looks like he wears khakis in his free time.
85:10Yes. Yeah. Brock Purdy. Sweet little Disney Channel original movie quarterback.
85:13Exactly. Derogatory and complimentary. Apparently. I don't know. Brock Purdy.
85:16The friend zone tier where these guys would be fun to hang out with, but would never ever date.
85:22Like we can go midi golfing or high five each other.
85:25See, I feel like this is more close to what I was saying.
85:28Maybe I was a little harsh. No. Brock Purdy.
85:31Cute like a puppy or like a kid playing T-ball.
85:34I think a kid playing T-ball. Someone just wrote Brock Purdy, you little scamp.
85:38Yeah. Well, I do. I do call him a sneaky little shit.
85:41And that's my most. That's the strongest compliment you can get from me.
85:45Someone just accurately wrote Brock Purdy, somehow 26 and not 19, but he cannot grow a lick of facial hair or even
85:51stubble has almost no shot at escaping the ranks of the inoffensively cute, which keeps him as just kind of a guy.
85:57Yeah. I can't believe he's this high. What? 13th?
86:00I think this is right. I think this is the right range.
86:03So one woman put him first and said, he's Mr.
86:06Relevant to me. Is this his wife? Is he married?
86:09Here's the thing, DK. Here's the thing. If Brock Purdy was in your friend group, he might immediately become the hottest guy in your friend group.
86:16Of course. Of course. So. Yeah. Can I? And also like he is way more athletic than he looks.
86:22Yes. Yeah. I think. And you know, he has the confidence of being the final pick of the draft and he's been awesome.
86:28He got the big time deal. Makes 50 million a year.
86:31I get it. I get it. I probably docked him a lot because of the uniform he wears.
86:36Like 6'1", 220. Did you guys meet my friend Brian at my wedding?
86:40I don't know if you did. He kind of reminds me of Brock Purdy because when you meet him, you wouldn't expect
86:46him to be like a psycho murder competitor, like just an absolute gamer.
86:50But like, like he just looks like he's like a very normal looking consultant.
86:54But then like he, I've seen him make half court shots during games because people said he couldn't.
86:59Like Craig. Like Craig. Like kind of like Craig.
87:02And I'm like, you wouldn't expect that. I'm like, you know.
87:05All right. I'm being a hater. Can I read you?
87:0830 seconds is fucking wild. That's wild. Well, he just hates the Niners, dude.
87:12Come on. Look, it's the one team I am allowed to hate.
87:15All right. Dude. One other comment. Someone said Brock Purdy adorable, but probably asked permission to hold hands.
87:20Adorable. Okay. So run through 16 through 13 again.
87:2313 is Brock Purdy. Jaden. Sorry. Yeah. 16th is Jackson Dart.
87:2615th is Tyler Shuck. Jaden Daniels is 14 and Brock Purdy is 13.
87:29So that is 13 to 16 on the top 16.
87:32Fascinating. I'm having a blast with this. It's unbelievable.
87:35You want, you want some analytics on this? Sure.
87:37Well, the, the real analytic takeover, the takeaway rather is that Jackson Dart was just in a lot of top fives and
87:44bottom fives, which I think says something about modern dating.
87:46Yeah. But I think Jackson Dart's the most surprising one on here to me.
87:50Maybe. Well, a third of women had Brock Purdy in their top 10, but only.
87:55Wow. 5% of women had him in their bottom 10.
87:57Hmm. Yeah. All right. He's safe. Seahawks fans. Probably represent.
88:00It's you and Mina have him in the bottom five.
88:03Question. Mina, we might get Mina on this show.
88:06She's so angry. Oh, yeah. I want to hear where she has him.
88:09Mina's furious with us. Where do you, where would you rank Kyle Shanahan?
88:13Do you think Kyle Shanahan's hot? I feel like he's probably hot.
88:16Next year we'll do coaches. Yeah. Next year we were 1000% doing coaches.
88:20Yeah. Next year. 100% we're doing coaches. Yeah. Women listening, please start sharpening your ranking, your coach rankings now.
88:25We're going to do coaches next year. Absolutely. Okay.
88:28So we're going to do these at the top of every week, right, Craig?
88:32So next week we're going to have 12 to nine.
88:35And yeah. So we'll do those at the top of each week through.
88:38I got to say, the seven have delivered. This is seven above and beyond.
88:42Yeah. Thank you for this. Okay. Can I read you?
88:45I'll read you one email. We'll get out of here.
88:48Yeah. Let's do it. These are just. I love that.
88:51We're just like doing hockey history. I had to go back to Wayne Gretzky for a second.
88:56Courtney Howe, Wayne Gretzky. Love it. So first of all.
88:59The Oilers won the Gretzky trade. That's that's. You know what?
89:02Yeah. You're probably right. Actually. It is crazy that they traded away.
89:05Wayne Gretzky for money and then won another Stanley Cup.
89:08And the Kings never won. So this is this email is from Brendan.
89:12B-Bone. I'm not going to read the whole thing.
89:14All right. But I. His breakfast is low fat Greek yogurt with dried cranberries, roasted sunflower seeds and almonds with a cup of black coffee.
89:21Oh, that sounds good. Oh, you're an almond person.
89:24I didn't realize that. You say almond. Almond. Almond.
89:26There's an L in there. Almond? The Almond Brothers.
89:29Almond. Yeah. There's an L. I've never said that in my life.
89:32Almond. Almond. Almonds. So New York. Almond. I know.
89:35People who say almonds say pillow instead of pillow usually.
89:38Pillow. Yeah. That's good. Oh, Heifetz is a pillow.
89:40Where are you? Pillow. Pillow. Or like milk. Milk.
89:43Almonds. Almond. No. What? Almonds. Is that an accent or is the L silent?
89:47I need to know now. The L isn't silent.
89:49But there are people who say almond. What about like in church?
89:53P-S-A-L-M. Psalm. You pronounce the L? Yeah. Yeah. Psalm.
89:55Maybe it's just New York. Maybe it's just a pediment.
89:58Psalm. Psalm. Psalms. Psalm. Almond. You say Psalm. Psalm.
90:01I'm Jewish. I don't fucking know. That's. Yeah. Psalms.
90:03That's. Yeah. Psalms. Almond. Anyway, Wayne Gritsky. When you start saying it, when you start saying it, how it should be said,
90:09though, it does kind of make you sound like Dave Chappelle impersonating a white person.
90:14Oh, man. Psalms. Psalms. Listen here now. Yeah. Okay.
90:16Wayne Gritsky. There's just a bunch of other stats about how good Wayne Gritsky was.
90:20Yeah. Because Brendan felt we didn't fully understand. I mean, we probably don't.
90:24We definitely don't. Well, I definitely don't know. This one went a long way.
90:28Craig is the worst at this. This one went a long way.
90:31Why am I the worst? Because you're saying they lost the trade.
90:35Well. Well, the Kings lost. Objectively. What's the point?
90:37What's the point of playing sports to win a ring?
90:40Fair. So Wayne Gritsky played like 20 seasons. If you look at if you just took the last 20.
90:46MVPs in hockey, like the last 20 seasons, if you just took the MVP from each of those seasons, Wayne Gritsky had
90:52more points in his 20 seasons than those MVPs combined.
90:55Wow. Literally, his entire career was better than the last 20 best person in hockey.
90:59That's crazy. So he's literally basically, he's just the MVP every single year statistically.
91:03He averaged the MVP season. He's better than that, Craig.
91:06He's better than the MVP every single year. Superior to the MVP.
91:09Wayne Gritsky. I mean, more multi-point games than games with no points at all.
91:13Uh, this one is other if you other than one player, Wayne Gritsky scored 2000 points faster than every NHL player scored 1200 points.
91:20Wow. The only person in the middle is Mario Lemieux.
91:23But other than Mario Lemieux, Gritsky got to 2000 faster than a name.
91:26Well, he's got to 1200. He was basically working twice as fast as everybody else in the history.
91:31Yes. Hockey, which similarly, Wayne Gritsky is obviously the fastest player to 1000 points in hockey.
91:36But he, the second fastest to 1000 points is also Wayne Gritsky going from 1000 to 2000.
91:41Wow. Which is fucking nuts. These are Jerry Rice ass stats.
91:44Yeah. Yeah. Maybe the Kings, I don't know anything.
91:46Did the Kings just not do a good job building around him?
91:50Or did they just like lose in the playoffs?
91:52They didn't have any ice in LA. I wish someone had done a documentary on this that we could like dive into.
91:59That would be, that would be helpful. Did the Kings fail him?
92:02They must have. Dude, some of these are. They must have.
92:05So Wayne Gritsky is the only player to ever have 200 points in a season.
92:09And he did it four times. Jerry Rice. Yeah.
92:12So there's a lot. Yeah. Great. He's pretty good.
92:15The Jerry Rice. Here's what I want. It's like so much.
92:18It's, it's, you know, exponentially better than even the second best player.
92:21I want someone to explain to me why Wayne Gritsky was so good.
92:25Jerry West. Sorry, Jerry. This is what I was talking about.
92:28Also at the forefront of like, you know, the West Coast offense.
92:31And it was part of that. He was also like a really hard worker, but like really detailed.
92:36But it was also like Bill Walsh and everything happening around the Niners.
92:40I want someone to explain to me how Wayne Gritsky was this much better than everybody else who's ever lived.
92:46I don't understand why. Because I didn't realize that he's not actually that big.
92:50Yeah. He's like six foot, six one. Yeah. That was the thing.
92:53He was small. It was like a, it was a problem.
92:56It's like a messy situation. Kind of. Can I get a, can I get a Wayne Gritsky was a problem cut up?
93:02I'd love to see that. Oh my God. Did you see Darren Peterson?
93:06The, the, the, the second pick in the draft.
93:09Yeah. He went to the jazz. And they were like, yeah.
93:12Yeah. So like the coaches told me on defense, they want me to watch this, this football player, this old football player.
93:18Like on the Ravens. He was on the Ravens.
93:21I don't remember his name. They're like Ray Lewis.
93:23He's like, no. He eventually got there and was like, I think.
93:26Ed Reed. Ed Reed. And I need someone to make a cut up of that into just Ed Reed highlights over like some 2000s rap song.
93:34That was humbling, but also actually that is how we should play defense.
93:37And then I started watching Ed Reed videos. But yeah, should we have a Wayne Gretzky is a problem video or should we have an Ed Reed?
93:45I want to see Wayne Gretzky was a problem.
93:48Wayne Gretzky was a problem. I'm fascinated by the Wayne Gretzkys of sports.
93:51It's just insane. Like Heifetz said, how is he so much better?
93:55Well, now that we don't know hurling, you know what the other sport we can have people email in?
94:00I think hurling now that we've gone there. Do you guys disagree?
94:04The sport we understand the least is cricket. Yeah.
94:06So if someone wants to tell us about cricket, I would also hear about the Wayne Gretzky of cricket.
94:11Someone wants to explain that. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, DK.
94:14Thank you, Craig. Thank you, Cam. Thank you, Austin.
94:17Thank you, Nikhil. Thank you, Carlos. Thank you, Abu.
94:19Thank you, everyone for listening. Thank you to the seven, all seven of you for sending in your rankings.
94:25We're also next episode, DK, we're going to do movie club.
94:28We're going to do Transformers. You have to watch it.
94:31And we're going to do the Transformers review. Okay.
94:33And so we're going to do it. Thank you, Lord.
94:36Lord. Millennial Bangers continues today. I will be offering you, we're going back a little earlier, a 2006 vintage.
94:41This is the 20 year anniversary of a song called Every Time We Touch by Cascada.
94:46Get the fuck out, you dog. Who, look, let me tell you something about this.
94:50I don't know that off the top of my head.
94:53Sailor. Toss it on Spotify. I'm so upset that we work at Spotify and we can't play the songs.
94:58I'm tone deaf. So I think that I am transforming.
95:01I'm going to transform the product. Every time we touch, I get this feeling.
95:05Yeah. I mean. I feel alive. Yeah. Yeah. It's something like that.
95:09Here's the thing about Cascada. This song came out in 06.
95:12I don't know who Cascada is. Never heard of that person.
95:15I don't know if it's a person or a band.
95:18I think it's a blonde woman. Pseudonym. Yeah. It's funny that this song was so good and was such a banger and
95:24is the ultimate head bang song from this era.
95:27It's fucking just rips. You can't help but get sucked into it.
95:30I can't. I don't know who this person is.
95:32It's a dance music trio from Germany. What? I thought it was a blonde lady.
95:37That's crazy. Every time we touch, there's a song by German dance trio Cascada or Cascada or whatever.
95:42There's a high level of song that like. Euro dance.
95:45There's a level of song I dare you to like.
95:47Put this song on and you will run through a wall.
95:51I mean, I'm sure I know it. I'm sure I recognize it.
95:54Some songs. It starts with a breathy female voice going, I still hear your voice.
95:58And you're like, oh, let's go. Let's go. It's so good.
96:01They also have one other song called Evacuate the Dance Floor from 2009.
96:05Oh, I know that song. Also fucking good. Yeah, that song I'm very aware of.
96:09Now I'm trying to remember the one. Evacuate the dance floor.
96:12Do the sound. Stop. This beat is killing me.
96:15That was a big song. That one I know of.
96:18But the other one was bigger. The other. It was.
96:21Every time we touch was truly huge. I mean, I definitely know the other one, but the Evacuate the Dance Floor means more.
96:27I'm surprised you don't know every time we touch because you were still, you know, living life.
96:32I was still in the thick of it. Were you traveling Europe at this time?
96:36I was. This wasn't in your underground. I probably heard it in the Krakow like dance club that I was in at the time.
96:43You're in Ruins Bars in Hungary. Can you play the chorus to yourself so you familiarize yourself with this?
96:48I need you to hear the chorus. Yeah, you need to play it.
96:52Okay, hold on. Go to like second 22. Start there.
96:55But for the record, it is a blonde woman perhaps as the lead of this group.
96:59I don't know who it is, though. Who is this woman?
97:03Who is she? Who is she? Cascada. Natalie Horler.
97:05Nat. Nat. She's only 44 right now. All right.
97:08I'm hearing it. I definitely know the song. I'm aware of the song.
97:11Get ready. DK's head's going to start. Oh, no.
97:14I'm already in. I'm there, Craig. I definitely recognize this.
97:17Yeah. Yeah. They don't do them like that. We're not doing that anymore.
97:20We're not making songs like that right now. You know what I mean?
97:24It's simple. Yeah. Look, the beat is killing her.
97:27It's too good. Do you have a specific memory of this song, Craig?
97:30Every time we touch? Yeah. We used to do a thing in high school called lip sync.
97:35Oh, yeah. Yeah. Where each class puts on a 10-minute lip sync performance.
97:39Lip sync battle. In front of 500 people. And you do like, it's like little skits.
97:43One minute skits. And this was one of them.
97:46It's just one of those songs that like, no one talks about.
97:49And every time it comes on, people are like, fuck yeah.
97:52This song? No one would ever be like, oh, my top 10 song every time we touch.
97:57And the second it comes on, everybody knows it.
98:00Jumping up and down, sweaty in a bar. It's great.
98:03Craig, in 2010, I'm seeing this from Wikipedia. In 2010 and again in 2014, Cascada's music was second most downloaded in the dance category.
98:09Only after David Guetta, who I think you did last week.
98:12Yeah. I mean, he solved racism. So, I mean, that's no harm there.
98:16He did. Second's an honor. Anyway, shouts out Cascada and Natalie Horler.
98:20Shout out Nat. She really fucking did it in the aughts.
98:23She did it. Good for her. Good for that.
98:25Cascada? It's Spanish for waterfall, apparently, according to what I'm reading here.
98:29That's one of those where it's probably Cascada in a different language, but it's Cascada.
98:33It's got to be Cascada. You can say it however you want.
98:36I'm fine with that. Almond. We'll be back next episode with another millennial banger.
98:40I got a couple in the holster I'm excited to get into.
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